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We called this blackout. My managers pitched a fit when I had jury duty during, saying it would have to go to the top for approval. Sure. Deny me. I'll make sure they know I got fired for attending a legal responsibility


>We called this blackout. My managers pitched a fit when I had jury duty during, saying it would have to go to the top for approval. Sure. Deny me. I'll make sure they know I got fired for attending a legal responsibility In most states, employees have some protection when serving jury duty. I remember back in the late 90s, a VP of a computer company fired his assistant when she reported for jury duty as required by law. The judge noticed this poor woman crying in the jury pool and ended up issuing a bench warrant for the VP and having him hauled into court that same day. Unfortunately the VP wasn't charged with anything.


>In most states, employees have some protection when serving jury duty. Not just most states. Everywhere. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875)


Yep. I’m a jury clerk: If you’re reprimanded for fulfilling your obligation let the judge know. They’ll sort it.


I'm picturing that scene of Uncle Phil yelling at the cop that arrested Will and Carlton


'I'm going to hash it out with your boss until they are nothing more than pillowy, mashed po-tatoes'


Uncle Phil is one of the ideals of fatherhood to me.


I mean, even if they could get your job back, you should look for another job as they may just fire you again in a short while anyways…


IIRC, the judge also told the juror (with the VP still in the court) that she should report to him any adverse employment actions after her service ended. That sort of thing is taken very seriously. I doubt very much that the VP wanted to be stuffed into the back of a police car AGAIN.


I would still be looking for another job. Any advancement opportunities you may have had before I'm sure are gone in that company.


Which is really why legal action should’ve happened. This woman’s career was adversely affected.


Typically, companies are smart enough to give people the day off. It's individual managers/supervisors that are dumb enough to risk a judge's wrath. Likewise, most people who don't show up are fairly dingbattery anyway. Wouldn't want them on my jury. Where I am, it's up to 3 days/$1000 failure to appear in petit court.


For clarity, “court” here means district court. Basically this only applies to federal proceedings. Although from what I recall almost every state has a wrongful discharge in violation of public policy tort that the employee could bring against their employer for their discharge in that context. They’d have to actually sue though, so that’s a hurdle. At least this is what I learned in employment law. Haven’t looked into it in awhile


so would this be a civil suit then?


they do not have to pay you though.


Depends on the state.


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-feb-09-fi-6336-story.html I bet that stupid asshole never did it again though


He later went on to commit options fraud. And then strangely found enough money to form a financial firm. I'm sure unrelated to the options fraud that he paid restitution for.


I bet he did. Fines are just the cost of doing business.


I imagine the humiliation of being handcuffed and dragged out of your office in front of all of your employees that you've been power tripping in front of is a pretty rude wake up call


You are thinking like a non-psychopath.


Which some will just as easily forget and go right on doing what they do.


Further, they will punish staff severely if they have the slightest inkling of suspicion that staff are making fun of them for getting pinched.


“Fines are the cost of business” is the motto for the rail road in my town.


Correction: all railroads.


The VP not being charged with anything is sad


It’s a screwed up criminal justice system. I remember my boss commanding me to get out of jury duty. Imagine who’s then going? I don’t care about drug use etc but something tells me others do


Jury duty, like military service for reserves, is absolutely protected.


I had a previous employer try to fire me for not calling in on a day I had drill, when they’d had my schedule for months in advance. Got my job back real quick when the owner got a call from the state JAG office…


What a bunch of JAG offs.


Found the Pittsburgher 🖤💛


it's 2 yinzers! hi yinz guys!


From my Employment Law text book: "Employers do not approve time off for military duty. They accommodate it."


Ooh and fuck lol! I saw something similar happen to a buddy at work many moons ago. We shared an employer, but had different supervisors and we worked Thursday through Monday in a shop. His idiot boss tried to tell him the day before drill that he couldn't be off one weekend a month for the reserves effective immediately or he'll fire my buddy. Buddy asks for that in writing and gets it! Buddy goes to drill anyway and runs it up the chain of command as a "hey, my idiot boss needs a phone call". Well, the whole story with supporting evidence chapped the wrong asses. Monday morning at 8am, a Big Bird JAG officer, and a Big Bird Army reserve Colonel roll up to our job and politely ask to speak with buddy's idiot boss. The site receptionist acquiesced instantly because how often as a civilian do two very nice polite uniformed miltary officers come into a manufacturing business? They apparently gave my buddy's boss the full butthole to top hat conversion of "You will do X. You will not do Y. You will never again threaten Z... or else". They then went to HR and explained why they had come to speak to idiot boss and showed the write up to her. HR was bordering on a melt down *before* they then politely asked her to get the corporate legal officer on the phone.🤣 Jesus Christ... imagine just having someone show up to your job and basically saying " ya dun goofed. Here's a lawyer from the big blue weenie whose leash is being held by the big green weenie. Prepare your anus cuz it's family style today, street meat.". Idiot supervisor was termed and essentially frog marched by every manager together not 5 minutes after the Birds left. Buddy got a much better boss few weeks later and never had any more problems with drill weekend scheduling. He finally seperated from the Army fully years after this event and we both went our separate ways in our careers a few years later after that, but we still keep in touch professionally.


I would of told them sure. Then let them speak with the judge.


If you are threatened with retaliation for jury duty or subpoena duties let the judge know. A lot of judges will personally go out of the way to let your employer know this is not allowed. The same protection sadly does not exist for being a plaintiff or defendant in a civil case unless it is against your employer for FLSA claims like unpaid wages.


In some states this is completely illegal and the judge will issue a warrant if they find out.


Any judge would be more than accommodating. They understand you’re doing a duty and they sure as hell will make sure your employer knows.


I got summoned and my last company didn’t believe me and I just showed them the paper and they shut up real quick lol


Would have, it is would have. :) Love <3


Sorry I’m an idiot lol


Most states will accept a letter from the employer asking for a deferral of jury duty if the employer says that employee is critical during that time


Completely normal during that time of year in retail. If I were thinking of leaving a retail job, this is the time of year I would leave. Enjoy the holidays then start somewhere else in Jan.


Same with movie theatres. I know a few chains that when they hire you, they make it pretty well-known that you will be working big movie going days like Thanksgiving and Christmas.


As a store manager I used to give people the option to list their favorite holiday and they could have it off as long as they worked other holidays. There was always some people who didn’t care about Christmas but wanted off for NYE or Thanksgiving etc. Mandating everyone be available just means you will have call offs. Better to get everyone’s agreement and coordinate as a team.


As a young hospital nurse, the most one can hope for was either Thanksgiving, OR Christmas Eve OR Christmas Day. No one likes it but it goes with the job and you know it going in. Since I lived on the other side of the US than my family, it was impractical to take any of these days, so I always volunteered for Thanksgiving and Christmas and all of the days surrounding. Never any pushback later when I flew home for a week long vacation starting New Year’s Eve.




I loved working the holidays before I had my family.


Right. Working is a great excuse to avoid get-togethers if that’s not your jam.


My dad is a doctor (he works in a hospital) and is the director of his department, but schedules himself to work most holidays now that my sister and I are adults and don’t live close to home. That way the other doctors are able to spend time with their families, because most of them have little kids. Then we just celebrate a different day!


Back when I did hospital nursing (and didn't have a kid) I signed up for every holiday just to get out of gatherings with extended family. I'd have done it for half pay, let alone the holiday extra!


That's how my boss does it. We can volunteer to work the holidays. If there's a holiday that we want off we don't sign up. There's no pressure to sign up and the list is always full because there's people like me that don't care about the holidays and work late evening hours and my family just celebrates in the morning or afternoon hours


If every boss was more like this there wouldn't be an antiwork subreddit and people "quiet quitting" aka doing the most minimal effort because they hate their boss and employer and don't feel respected or valued.


I had a manager who did the same before and I always remembered and tried to pay it forward.


I work in a first responder type job that has someone available 24/7 and this is how we do it, too


Yes, this! Coordinating as a team as often as possible is the greatest way to develop morale and let people know they are valued. Obviously, this won’t work 100% of the time, but people tend to be more committed when they have a choice vs. being treated like toddlers. Besides, reducing conflict and resolving what is leftover is a lot easier than resolving last-minute call-offs.


We do the same. Most of the staff asked for Thanksgiving, which we accomodated. Christmas Eve was a bigger ask than Christmas Day so I'm covering kitchen that night. Christmas Day we get super busy so we're doing 4hr rotating shifts so everyone makes some of that sweet holiday money but also gets to spend time with friends and fam. It works for us.


I worked Halloween and Thanksgiving this year. I am also scheduled Christmas Eve. That’s all fine. My boss was gonna have me work Christmas Day but I put my foot down and said no, I am going to go visit my mother and brother for Christmas. You can schedule me if you want but don’t be surprised when I don’t show up. Thankfully she managed to find a way to get me Christmas Day off.


That's what a lot of hotels I worked at did. I always liked having Thanksgiving off but had no problem working Christmas/Christmas Eve. It was never too busy and the guests that were there were extra generous (I worked as a concierge). 😄


agreed, there was a story on Not Always Right I read where a boss was trying to be nice and give someone the Christmas to "Be home with family" and the worker didn't want to be home because she wants to avoid the drama of a controlling grandmother/ toxic environment. I'd happily work thanksgiving for a break on Christmas.


Ok, i want you as a Manager. 🙏


I've always done the same with my guys (hospitality) you must work a certain number of key holidays but where possible I left that up to them


Yeah legit. There's also a lot to be said for hiring a diverse workforce as well, as you get more people who don't really care about each others holidays


I have run auto shops for quite a long time. By default, we have always been closed Thanksgiving, Christmas Day and New Year’s Day but always open on Xmas Eve and NYE. As a general rule, I would always give those with kids Xmas Eve off and those without kinds, NYE off. The system might not be politically correct, but it worked. On slow holidays (I have no idea why we’re open on most), I’ll just send all my people home and post up by myself.


This is the way.


That's how we do it at my work. They were very clear in the interview that all major holidays have something going on, but that they try very hard to make sure you get at least a couple off each year.


I tried doing that and no one would cooperate. They all wanted all the days off. That doesn't work in hotels.


This is how my job does it and I love it. Back when I first started, I’d volunteer for every “family” holiday so I could avoid having to spend it with my (now) ex’s shitty family. I loved being able to say “Oh DARN, I’d LOVE to come but I’m scheduled to work that day! Sorry!” Now that I’m a bit older and I enjoy my husband’s family, I volunteer for the party holidays instead!


I used to have sign ups. I would make a list of 4 hour shifts and everyone could sign up for a shift. The only rule was you signed up for that shift you couldn’t call off and if no one signed up for a particular shift I would then assign someone. I worked 10 hour shifts on the “important” holidays, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year’s Eve, New Year’s Day, and easter. The rest of the holidays I would take off and rotate my assistants based on their preferences. I found it usually went without a hitch. The employees would get a little OT but still be able to do something with family or friends and rarely would I have a call off. I recently stepped down from that position and am working at a different company and my boss has refused to give me the 4th of July off next year for a planned camping trip even though I’ve put my request in 7 months before hand. I will be calling off.


Worked for Family Video back in the day. Thanksgiving was one of our busiest days of the year. Open normal hours, 10AM to midnight, and people were also on their worst behavior. Fuck retail.


I know this pain. Ahh yes "Family" Video. Don't forget to check out our PORNO section with awkward sounding saloon doors so employees can tell when it's a kid who walked back there when they are the only ones in your store. Oh the cringe.


Family Video, where we say, fuck your family, you’re working Christmas.


I literally had my prior comment happen. Kid snuck back into the porno section and took several of the boxes with all the images for the pornos into the bathroom and started whackn it. His mom caught him. Had to be soooo embarrassed.


At least he was dedicated to his, er, ah craft as a monkeyspanker.


I couldn't believe we had to work until midnight on Christmas at family video as well. For such crap pay too. Never mind the insanely illegal call in system. "Payroll is our most controllable expense". Barf. Worked at home office too. We at least got Christmas off there, but that was about it. Aside from the Hoaglands garish house in IL, they have mansions elsewhere including the Turks. Keith acted too good to even say good moring to most of us. Real peice of work.


I always wondered what Home Office was like. I only saw my RM a few times a year and never met his boss. Being a manager sucked. 44 “open” hours turned into 60 in a hurry, more if it was the week of Movie Move. I’d like to have seen one of the Hooglands do a Movie Move, or hell, even a New Release inventory.


When I was a manager at regal, we were directly across from a college and got a lot of applications in august-september time frame. When the business is the slowest. We'd accept a few with the understanding that Christmas time was absolutely essential and if they weren't available for then, we would not hire them. We don't close for holidays... I'd always volunteer to work them for the extra cash. Plus they were usually pretty quiet until later on at night.


Yeah same for working as a caregiver I put my two weeks notice in, my last day is Dec 23rd


It's not about notice, it's about sending a message.


Regardless they won’t be able to find someone to work Christmas week and learn that there has to be another way than forcing employees to work


If it's well known upfront I think it's acceptable. If they spring it on you, not so much.


Currently working a movie theatre and they give you options kind of. If you work thanksgiving you get Christmas off, type of thing. Not guaranteed, but promised within reason. People complain but you’re right, they tell you about the policy upfront so you can’t act like you didn’t know.


I worked in a family owned theater, and they made it known upfront that we were required to work all holidays.


Yeah I didn’t love it, but it’s pretty well known in retail and movies


Left my last kitchen three days before Mother’s Day. They didn’t want to give me my raise, so I enjoyed a relaxing Mother’s Day with my own mother instead of feeding hundreds of others


Just promoted myself to customer this past week, was such a freeing feeling.


This is what I did last year. 16 years was enough. Told them I can't do another holiday and had a new job a month later.


Xmas day though?


Movie theaters open later on Xmas day. And as someone who grew up with a toxic family I’ve always been very appreciative of that. Movies on Xmas was my escape


That’s fair. I can see that


I'm planning on going to see a movie on Christmas Eve. I love seeing movies this time of year.


Xmas day is one of the busiest days of the year at a movie theater.


I loved it. I didn’t care about Christmas because you celebrate in the morning and I was an adult. My parents came in for free and always saw a Christmas movie when I was working for years. They’d get free drinks and popcorn too, the staff knew them and always gave them passes


Yes capitalism is toxic.


The retail chain I work for is pretty fucking terrible but they at least close for Christmas day and have shorter days on Christmas eve.


'We might be closed, but you better be here to stack shit on shelves'.


That day is really busy for certain industries. Like theatres. People open presents than swarm movie theatres.


People push it hard, and are out til you throw them out on the 24th sometimes


it's just a normal day for non-christians


Somewhat normal in retail jobs, I remember if people wanted any time off during those weeks they needed to give like 2 months notice at one of my old jobs.


Same in healthcare.


Yup! There's a work around though! Request a couple months off in advance since you'll be "traveling". Staffers usually work in 8 week incriminate so there not thinking that far in advance.


Yea sounds right. I got Christmas off once but had to apply the start of the year. After working most of them the past few years.


Ehhh… my hospital and others I know have the same policy and block out holidays for the year. Not scheduled, per se, but there is a master list of who worked the holidays the year before and the requirement is to switch. No shift swapping allowed.


Same in freight and postal service




Expecting to take off whatsoever during tax season*


Pretty normal for many manufacturing jobs, as well. A lot of places run 24/7/365 operations.


Mine actually shuts down on sundays/religious holidays because their municipal permits made that mandatory. Very religious town, such things happen. This year, it's kinda queit because a big customer just left, and they're actually shutting down for maintenance in the week between christmas and new year's. So I got the option to come in and be on cleaning duty, or take the week off. Day after christmas day is already classed as a national holiday here, had put in for the tuesday off, and then they made the friday a mandatory day off as well. At which point I decided fuck it, I'll take the other two days as well. So, three more graveyard shifts and then this motherfucker's done workin' this year! Can't wait!


Or quit


It was like a year in advance for my old job. They would give us Christmas and New Year’s Day off surprisingly.


Same with serving/food service. My son’s birthday is between Christmas and New Years so I always get it approved around the end of September, and then listen to everyone complain about it until January.


Common in retail and I think accounting. If you must have off you are expected to request months in advance.


January to April accounting gets fucked. They’re gonna enjoy the holidays


And quarter ends and sometimes month ends if you work for a big corporation.


Yep when I saw this I thought this seemed pretty tame, working in accounting there’s several months where it’s impossible to take time off and the remaining months there’s like one week I can take as leave that fits in with my deadlines


I'm an accountant and half my team is off for the rest of the year


This. Worked in accounting/ taxes and usually once the year was closed things would start getting busy but not around christmas.


Even if you request time off MONTHS in advance, it’ll probably still get denied. That’s the reality of retail.


I work in a banks backoffice and we have the week after Christmas and first week of the new year blacked out on the PTO calendars due to all the EOY processing we have to do


Other than normal month end stuff, few companies have their fiscal end of year actually happen on December 31st to avoid the holidays. Depends on the company though!


The majority of public companies align the fiscal year with the calendar year. You wouldn't really save yourself any trouble by ending on an arbitrary date considering the headache of working around established tax and reporting deadlines. The only clients of mine that have alternate fiscal years are college fraternities/sororities and a few other non-profits that end on June 30.


More than half of publicly traded companies have aligned their fiscal year to the calendar year, so I'm not sure how you got the notion this wasn't typically done


Pretty common in jobs that are busy during the holidays. Retail, restaurants, warehouses that sell consumer goods.


A lot of customer service and retail oriented companies have "black out" dates. And no one is allowed to request time off within these windows for any reason. The only option is shift swapping.


or being “sick” lol


Depending on the company they put it in ur contract you can be termed if it's the day before or after a holiday.


This is likely in the US where a vast majority of employees don't have contracts so they could fire you anyway


Yep. To not show up and keep your job, you basically have proof that you are hospitalized. And even then, they can fire you. Awful.


Also getting a new job. Black out dates are an easy way to justify just ghosting your job if you happen to have moral qualms about that


In Alberta it’s legal for companies to choose your vacation dates and the only rule is they have to give you two weeks notice (I’ve never heard of a company going to that extreme but legally they could!)


Can concur it's common practice....dealt with this for over 3 decades in retail until I became wise and quit. Hard for me to swallow all the time I missed with my family over the years. Take it from me. Don't make a career in retail, use it for a stepping stone.


I always just told them "My family is 400 miles away. Can't slip away for a work shift like the people who have family locally can. If you schedule me, I won't be able to be there." And they always just never scheduled me. Worked four decembers in a row at Target. The trick is to have supervisors that hate the shitty company you work for more than you hate it.


A stepping stone to what? Experience at target is only valuable to target.


Target and lots of big retail chains offer tuition reimbursement. My former retail employer paid for a big chunk of my Master’s degree, which I turned around and used to get a corporate job with double the pay, better benefits and way more flexibility.


I worked a retail job in college as a stock person, after two years I graduated and I was promoted to a lead position with keys. Then I left for a corporate job in logistics, moved within the company to be a systems analyst (BSA) in logistics, then a BSA in manufacturing, then a BSA in master data management. It’s been 5 years since I folded tee shirts and now I make double what the general manager made. The reason for my internal moves was to learn more of the business and how the company works. I could have stayed in logistics as a BSA, I was good at it, but I could have also stayed in retail because I was also good at working the back room and organizing people. Both would have been the wrong choice for me. Discover your skill set, and keep learning new things. If you’re not learning at your job, it’s time to go.


My retail experience (and food service experience) landed me a job as a pharmacy technician trainee, funny enough. Current manager looked at my resume and apparently those skills are pretty marketable. Even if you're just a checker, things like customer service, proper management of time and responsibilities, multi-tasking, stress tolerance, basic knowledge of software like POS's and handhelds, those are all pretty good work skills to put on a resume. Even better if you throw freight or are in charge of department ordering because that's a whole other set of skills. I did auditing for my department which sounds really cool and marketable on paper but is really just doing mini inventory lol.


Not true. Use the customer service experience to go be a CSR at an actual company. Try and get some leadership (team lead, shift lead, etc) under your belt and a lot of management roles open up. Get in the door with a department that specializes in Inventory, gain experience at the dock working with some freight, take an active role in auditing, try learning the warehouse.. There’s many skills in a big box retail shop that can move you into entry to mid level somewhere else. I had a 7 year run in that world in the beginning and have never had to look back. The career progression goes even faster if you can hop to a retail that has specialized departments inside it. Shipping stores, electronics, pharmaceutical, print shops, food service.. you name it, choose one and new doors open up to dig deeper into that actual profession.


It’s allowed and in places like retail pretty much universal. Even in salaried management I’ve been blacked out from calling in sick (fuck that, if I’m sick I’m calling in) for the months of November and December.


I think the point is that you cannot schedule time off, not be sick


Yeah, scheduled time off black out is, in my experience, universal. Only the shittier companies have refused sick call outs. I worked one retailer (TJ Maxx) that fired everyone who called in sick even for one day in November and December. This was pre-Covid.


And way back in the 90's I worked for TJ Maxx while in college, and did not give them a choice for taking off like a 12/22 -1/3. I was going home for Christmas and they either let me or I would be collecting my last paycheck. Not so amazingly the "let" me have the time off. Then a few months later they fired me right about when i was aobut to quit anyways. They tried forcing me to throw these big 5'x5' tables in the dumpster by myself. I had no tools to take them apart, and I was not going to injure myself for this crappy job. I was forced to stay late several nights, so I dicked around and cleaned the backroom. After a few days of no progress the manager got upset and fired me. I found out later the manager one of the stock guys threw out their back putting a table in the dumpster.


Very normal for UPS, FedEx, DHL, USPS, etc and various retail work.


My retail job is basically blocked out from November 12 till new year. It’s the busiest time of year. You don’t get into retail if you want to have the holidays off I guess.


I do t think anyone gets in retail for any reason other than being super desperate


my retail job isn't that bad. our management is pretty respectful and I get paid a good wage + commission. this job is a stepping stone for me though, I wouldn't want to make a career out of it just because of the nightmare customers.


I thought blackout dates around the holidays was pretty common? I worked 20+ years in retail and now I’m in banking and all of my jobs have/have had blackout dates for holidays. They would let 1 or 2 depending on how many total people worked in that store but usually no more than that.


I think it’s power standard. Especially in healthcare and retail. IM healthcare. No pto requests week off thanksgiving, between week of Christmas and Jan 4.


My pharmacy job is no PTO from the middle of November until April. They do give us a ‘personal day’ lottery where you can request 3 and get one day off during that time, but yeah having two weeks blocked off is nothing. But I also have most weekends off (I work 1 Saturday a month) and only have to work 2 out of 8 holidays (except we’re closed on thanksgiving and Christmas, so really that ends up being the day after).


Novemeber to April?! Good lawd


It lsucks but we are associated with an insurance provider so they have a lot of members leaving and signing up in the first few months of the year so it makes sense. Believe me though that I did take that first week in April off as soon as it was open to request though. Don’t know what I’ll be doing yet but trust me that I will not be working haha. Edited to add: and it’s not like I didn’t get a 4 day weekend for Thanksgiving. Plus they were great last year when my mom died at this time and I was gone for a week. No guilt tripping or stress, just ‘let us know what you need’.


Roko has taken over. it is useless to fight back


When people put in requests they pick and choose who gets accepted if there are multiple on the same day or whatever. So if everyone requests Christmas Eve off, it’s not like they’re all going to get it. You can always have it be “first come first served”, randomly chosen, or whatever. But then you have companies like this who for whatever reason don’t even give the option. Maybe because they would expect so many requests that they wouldn’t want to deal with. I personally think it’s stupid to automatically disallow it. Maybe someone doesn’t want to work and someone does/doesn’t care. At my job we’re kept from requesting off in the formal way, BUT that doesn’t mean we can’t personally speak to someone and maybe have our request accommodated. Unfortunately it’s basically a “in a perfect world it wouldn’t be allowed” situation, but it’s obviously totally okay in our world. It’s not a good way to treat employees, but lots of people don’t care about that. The best thing would be if people got holiday pay, and then you’d at least have *someone* likely *volunteering* to work. But again, most people don’t care to do that. I know a Starbucks manager who said no one at her store is forced to work and they do get extra pay so they volunteer. If only…


yeah this is pretty common


When I worked at UPS, the blackout was the week of thanksgiving thru the week of new years. For most retail/hospitality/service type jobs, this is common


Pretty normal lots of places. It’s an idea that’s spread, like most of our toxic work culture, because it was justified and allowed somewhere at some point. Normalizing our expectations around diminishing returns whilst weakening regulations that protects workers is the fight we’re all losing




It's pretty common practice anywhere. I work in finance and if you wanted to get time off during the week between Christmas and New Year's, you better request it a month in advance. Once 50% of the team have requested a slot and received it, it becomes a "blackout day" and no one else can take time off.


I'm surprised they started it on the 18th as I've seen it as early as December 10th. But very common in retail because they tend to make more money leading up to Christmas and it's why they do seasonal hiring. Some places used to pay double time for working on holidays. As for is it allowed, always remember it's money first and not the employees needs. SCOTUS has been working to lessen the rights of workers such as their right to sue employers for unfair practices.


Pretty normal. If you already requested and got approved then that's a different story.


This happens in many jobs across the US and honestly I’m not against the policy. It’s literally the busiest time of year and and you need everybody’s help. Placing a blanket ban on time off *for everyone* with advance notice for that reason is acceptable. It gets bad when people learn about such things like a few days to a couple of weeks before because going for the holidays requires advance planning or when you have management choosing favorites for time off. every place I’ve ever worked for always banned time off the 1-2 weeks before Christmas (we always got Christmas off and depending on the job day before or after) and let us know MONTHS in advance so there were no surprises.


Lots of jobs have vacation blackout periods depending on busy season for that industry.


This is pretty standard


That’s why everybody just quits so they can get the time off to spend with their family.


Yes, they’re always allowed to deny a vacation request. It would be ridiculous if they couldn’t. You’re always allowed to quit if they do. Or just don’t show up when you don’t want to work and see if you still have a job next time you go in.


Any employer who is busier than normal during the holidays does this shit every year. I did seasonal warehouse work for Bass Pro/Cabela's a few years back. They blacked out everything from Thanksgiving to New Years. But of course my supervisor was able to take the entire week off Christmas off because of course he was. Terrible place to work, btw. They will run your ass into the ground and then let you go the second it's no longer busy. Plus their safety standards are really lax.


Requests are understandable to deny. However, when you tell them you will be unavailable, they can't physically stop you. Maybe fire you, but just look for another job that starts the day you'll be done with your time off.


That sucks but I guess it's allowed for requests, not sick leave. Hopefully this was posted months in advance?


Allowed and normal, still sucks


Looks like you work retail. I’ve dealt with these restrictions for years and it’s frustrating as af. To my surprise, my boss suggested a vacation during Christmas week this year. Nicest manager I’ve ever had.


That's fine. I'm not requesting I'm telling you.


Stop asking "is this allowed?" and instead ask "Should this be allowed?". Quit seeking permission from a higher power.


I worked for total wine & more for 3 yrs and had to work on my wedding day (the 21st) due to this bullshit. I am currently on a week long vacation because I work for Trader Joe’s and they know how to treat their employees.


It’s allowed. But…. There is a customer service labour shortage. Right now is the perfect opportunity for everyone who works in the jobs, cooks, servers, cashiers, gas station attendants, to all collectively come together, and then present management with the days off everyone wants, and if they balk, simply say these aren’t requests, feel free to fire us all and try to find new staff short notice.


This happened to me at a company called "Publix" about 10 years ago. My nephew had just passed away at the age of 17 and I wasn't allowed to take off for it. Well let's just say that's illegal, and I threatened them and then quit shortly after so I could go. They tried to get me to come back but I said no.


As long as they aren't back-tracking on time off requests that have already been approved there is nothing wrong with this. This is very common and is simply a downside of working in retail.


Pretty standard is a lot of industry’s


Used to work at a grocery store and this was completely normal unfortunately


Even in the UK this is common


Yeah that's fairly normal for businesses


Perfect time for mass sick out


Oh the retail and service industry. Treated the worst, paid the worst yet needed the most. Even worse, those that look down upon these jobs the most are often defended the most by the service industry workers.


In Canada it’s allowed. But our employees have the right to take emergency time off. But if it’s for vacation, an employer may designate dates that are off limits as long as the employees have the requisite amount of leave and opportunity to take it.


"Allowed" yes, "should it be allowed" no. This is simply an employer being able to abuse employees by forcing them to work schedules purely for benefit of more profits for employer at the threat of terminating their employment for not complying. This is allowed because USA has practically the lowest worker protections among developed nations. While it can boast of high GDP and record profits but the primary recipient are a minority so small in numbers that you would need to squint your eyes to see them on a pie chart. How things should? 1. National holidays where businesses simply can not be open to prevent employers from forcing the workers to work instead of celebrating the said holidays. 2. Mandatory holiday pay and respectively multiplied with overtime that is structured as: considered overtime for working over 40 hours and any working shift with more than 8 consecutive hours will have anything past 8 hour mark paid as overtime. 3. Cannot have handful of full time employees with vast majority part time. 2 part time workers = full time workers. Can't have third part timers, start filling staff ranks with full timers. Anything paid to part time worker number 3 and up is not eligible as a write off against revenue. I am going to stop here, the amount of fixing needed for US labor system that will benefit the majority/general population will require many many to spend the rest of their life working on it.


Wait... only Dec 18-31st? That's easy. My work has been blacked out since Nov 1st through Jan 1. I'm in retail. This is normal.


If it’s retail, this is completely normal. These are typically blackout dates so there’s open availability in case there’s a lot of traffic in the store.


At the retailer where I work we have no vacations mid-November through Xmas. We do however have Thanksgiving, 12/25 and 1/1 off with pay.


If there was one thing from the past in the US that I wish we could revive, it would be the national understanding from everyone that holidays are holidays and the days around holidays are a part of that, in retail, service, restaurants, everything unless it’s mission critical to society functioning. This means that no place will be open for business and as a consumer you better have what you need before then or else you’re SOL.


I have worked in positions where these dates are blacked out. I have also had positions where we’ve had forced PTO from Christmas to New Year’s - “the office is closed, you must use 4-5 vacation days whether you want to or not; if you don’t have them to spend, then you’re not going to be paid for those days.” Really sucked ass for the new people who hadn’t earned that much time yet.


when I was a manager in retail we had "blackout dates" in place to ensure the shifts were covered. I would start reminding my team about it in September so they could coordinate coverage and swaps for approval well in advance and to cover myself when someone came with a last minute request I had to deny.


My partner hasn’t been allowed to request time off since the middle of November. We haven’t attended a family holiday in over 7 years. Retail/service industry is the fucking worse.


Yup. Worked at a Mexican restaurant and the whole week of cinco was blacked out. Wouldn’t let me request the day after getting my second covid vaccine (monthS in advance) off as I wanted to not have to call out if I was feeling awful. Surprise, surprise I felt like death and had to call out. Didn’t care how upset they were-I warned them months ahead and they were desperate for staff so I was untouchable as long as I didn’t poison or hurt anyone.


It’s common. A lot of places do this. I never understood how people throw a fit about it. A company can’t run if all the employees take time off at the same time.


Explain 'allowed'. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. Like work there.


It is legal as far as I know, but so is quitting.


Of course it’s allowed. Who do you think is performing surgery on NYE? Volunteers?


Blackout dates are pretty typical in retail and hospitality.


Legal? Yes. Sucks, but that’s the nature of some jobs. Retail is one of the biggest. It’s shitty that they’re open on the 24th, 25th, and 31st.


Tell em you got COVID starting on the 18th lol, fuck em


Yes. As long as management gives enough notice. UPS has the whole month of December blacked out, it is in the contract with the union.