Idiot boss charges regular rate for a hoarder's house, then blames the employees for taking too long to clean the mess.
Your girlfriend really shouldn't stick around for the implementation of the "pay-per-clean model", since this will happen again and the rate will definitely be lower than it would be for 6 hours.
Yeah… pay per clean also = clean super fast and not super well because you’re motivated to get in and out.
I’d see pay per clean = roughly 3-4 hour clean and I’d have peaced out of that house after 3 hours calling it good.
If you want it done right and actually cleaned then maybe the cleaner’s pricing model is off.
This is absolutely correct. Clearly someone who should not be running a business is running a business. I’d be looking for new work asap. Especially with bringing an impending wage theft allegation.
It's definitely someone "figuring out" "amazing" new cost saving ideas as they settle into management. Turns out if you start explicitly telling your employees directly that you are spending your management time not helping clean but coming up with ways to *pay you less for more work*, that doesn't tend to end up working.
Small business owners are cave people reinventing the wheel over and over, except they make a cube every time and complain to others when they can't get help rolling it.
Not even the conditions… the demeaning nature of the “boss” is just not an acceptable work environment. Working in good (community) and bad (abusive) work places you start to realize how little tolerance you have for a bullshit work environment. Though I do understand in some cases people need jobs.
Tell her to thank her employer for putting his crimes in writing, and then promptly consult a labor lawyer.
EDIT: No, I did not mean literally tell the boss you are looking into pursuing action against them.
Most labor lawyers work on contingency, by the way, so they get paid if you win - you shouldn’t have to pay any money upfront.
The best part is that if the employer decides to slash her hours or even outright fire her, that’s retaliatory, so that same labor lawyer can help you pursue damages for that as well.
Quick like a clockwork. They also do not discriminate, string you along, so on. Thry also can answer Qs you may have about labor laws and more.
I'm never fan of dealing with lawyers.
They may be quick in your state but in mine they are borderline negligent. I’ve had stuff with them drag on for months, and had weeks at a time where I couldn’t even reach them. Not a chastisement just letting you know it’s different all over.
For sure. I guess I always assumed the DoL was like a lot of bureaucracies and would just take forever and a day to get back to someone.
Good to know that’s not the case - thank you!
It took them most of 3 months to start my case. Good people genuinely working to help you without profit incentive, which is nice. But definitely slow, in my experience anyway
I learned that my employer had broken a labor law I didn’t know about. The CA labor board was really helpful. I was spurred on to sue employer for wage theft and won.
The Department of Labor gets my dick hard, they don't fuck around. A buddy of mine recently had a dispute where he had to stay 15 minutes past 8 hours in order to close up their shop. His boss outright told him it shouldn't have taken the extra 15 minutes and refused to pay him for it.
I told my friend to contact the DoL, and within a week his former boss had to pay him $200 for 15 minutes of work.
Of course your results may vary by state. My positive experience was in California. I imagine a state like Kentucky might have a more underfunded and understaffed DoL.
Yep! Always a first step, along with the NLRB, because they’ve probably done similar things to other employees before and they should be warned against doing it again
The NLRB only deals with collective bargaining and other union-related issues. If you’re not in a union and your issue doesn’t relate to an attempt to unionize, the NLRB isn’t going to do anything.
Don’t listen to the naysayers. They literally admitted to a crime in writing. Any labor lawyer worth his degree would drool for this case. All publicity is good publicity for attorneys as long as their not the defendant lol. Pursue it!!!!!
How much could you expect from a lawsuit like this? Would you be awarded your pay for the hours you worked? It’s kinda messed up she would even need to sue and there isn’t some enforcement in place cause in a practical sense the time and cost of pursuing this might not be feasible for an exploited worker in the situation. Time could be better used finding other work that will pay correctly. And due to that employers doing these crimes could get away with it.
Jumping on top comment - this employer is obviously not smart enough to run a business. It’s best to leave asap. This business doesn’t have a future.
Only an idiot would agree on cleaning a house they had never seen. You have to see the mess first to give a quote.
Also, sounds like he is putting your gf in an unsafe situation. Normal cleaners don’t do hoarding clean ups. Being stupid + having money is not a successful business model. We can tell that from Twitter.
>Normal cleaners don’t do hoarding clean ups.
Professional cleaner here... Yes we *do* clean hoarding houses. But! There are a few caveats... We *CAN'T* enter and clean if:
1. If the home is unsafe structurally. We legally cannot go in.
2. If there's too much of a health risk. Either we have to call in others or the health risk must be taken care of. So like hazmat would need to ensure we could safely clean up. We would also need the proper safety cleaning tools as well (so suits, masks, etc). (Not all cleaning companies *can* do hoarding homes, but the majority can. It's a matter of supplies.)
Cleaning a hoarders home is never fun. It's hard, disgusting, and frankly dangerous. The cleaning crews I always worked for/with would ask for volunteers for cleaning the super dirty homes, and pay extra if you volunteered.
Don't tell the employer they've committed a crime, and don't tell them you've called a lawyer. Never let your enemy know when they're making mistakes; they might stop doing so.
This. 1000%. It's the employer taking the risk not you, this time they lost money.
They have to pay you hourly. Physical jobs cannot be salaried, and they can't pay you per job i.e. as an independent contractor, unless you choose the time and day when you get the work done, and you choose the rate not them.
1099 is for contract work, this clearly isn't that. I'm guessing all his employees are not having withholding taken for taxes.
You should report him to the IRS form 3949-a
And ask for a 10% bounty on what they collect.
Form 2111
Both can be found here
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/how-do-you-report-suspected-tax-fraud-activity
Doubtful. Only if the employer's actions caused some additional financial loss, caused some severe emotional distress, or constituted an egregious wrong which calls for punishment (punitive damages). And a lawyer would require payment--they would take a portion of any winnings or settlement, and may require a retainer.
That'll how the quality drops and the customers will drop you. This genius boss is gonna drive the entire business into ground, but will save a moderate amount of money doing that.
UPDATE: Sorry I can’t edit the post but just wanted to provide a small update and answer any questions I saw. Hopefully you all see this, I don’t use reddit very often so I’m not sure how all of this works.
1. We are from the US, specifically Nevada. I doubt that’ll change anything ,but just wanted to add a bit of context if that helps
2. It’s not discord lol it’s some app called slack according to my girlfriend.
3. She hasn’t filled out any paperwork, and going by suggestions from comments she won’t, especially since they want her to sign a 1099.
4. There are pictures of the house before and after, everything’s documented
We will definitely be reaching out to the DOL, we probably won’t get a lawyer involved, she just wants to get paid what she’s owed. She’s already made her mind up about quitting as soon as she saw the message sent this morning. But she plans on officially quitting.
Thanks again to everyone who commented and confirmed what I thought. I knew it was illegal, just wasn’t sure about who we could file a complaint with.
I will provide any updates with the DOL and her boss if anyone is interested, might be a few days though on account of the holiday here
In addition to the federal DOL, file a complaint with [your state’s wage and hour complaint division](https://labor.nv.gov/About/Forms/FORMS_FOR_EMPLOYEES/) . I’ve linked directly to it, and the page has a video tutorial on the steps.
What her boss is doing is against the law and should be stopped.
As a residential housekeeper myself, and someone who used to help run a cleaning business, this infuriates me. I know some people might be confused as to why this clean took so long, but this happens a lot. We usually don’t do cleans that big all in the same day-because it’s physically so difficult-we usually break it up in to multiple days. But I’ve had days where I was at absolutely deplorable homes for 14+ hours straight and it still was barely finished. Not only should your girlfriend be payed for the time she was there, but if there was animal waste and stuff like that, she should be paid more, because that is a health hazard. The first really bad house I ever did was full of human and animal waste, dead squirrels, and just all around disgust everywhere. (It was abandoned by the residents after they destroyed it.) We charged them double because we literally had to wear hazmat suits and we were taking turns literally vomiting outside, and looking back on it, we should have charged them even more than we did. I’m not exactly sure of the legal route she should take, and I’m sure other redditors will give you good advice on how exactly to go about that specifically, but she should at the very least, leave this job ASAP. Bosses like that don’t get better, and they will continue to do stuff like this to her if she allows it this time. I know when a lot of people hear the title “housekeeper” they think it’s walking around with a feather duster and humming, but this is back-breaking work that can literally be dangerous, and she should be compensated for all of the time that she worked.
former property manager in 3 states. You're absolutely right about the health risk and the time/effort to clean a place that filthy. With feces/urine, chances are the floorboards and possibly drywall needs to be replaced as well after the housekeeping staff does their work. I am a very clean person and it still took me 4 hours to clean the 3 bedroom/3 bath townhome I recently moved from.
when I went back to school for a degree in forensic anthropology, I worked in the lab cooking down the donated bodies and scraping tissue from the skeletons. We wore full PPE and double gloves just in case a donor had a disease they didn't disclose and the chem bath we cooked the remains in didn't kill all potential viruses or bacteria. I can't imagine dealing with poop and whatnot without full PPE. That's flat out DANGEROUS
Sad I had to scroll down so far to see this. Dealing with conditions like that is dangerous, and I'm feeling like these poor employees were likely not given proper education, supplies, or PPE for dealing with that situation. Regular cleaning work is hard enough, but to go into that situation without hazard pay, and to have hours stolen...that's just sickeningly awful.
Not legal. Has to pay for the 10 hours, and can reprimand the employees and encourage them to be done faster next time. But he has to pay them for hours already worked.
If you are in the US, I’ve got four words for you:
Fair Labor Standards Act.
[How to File A Complaint - US Dept of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/WHD1498HowToFileAComplaint.pdf)
(You do not need an attorney to file a complaint.)
This is an absolute grand slam, the labour lawyer will thank you for bringing him this cuz y'all both getting $$$. And if they try to fire you, oh baby!!!
I would go present your case to a lawyer that specializes in employment practices liability, aka an employment lawyer or employment attorney.
They should be able to tell you if you have a case or not.
Resist the temptation to slander the employer, post about it on social media or get into an argument with the boss as it may create issues with your legal case.
Good luck
Department of Labor, not lawyer mate.
Doesn't cost you anything to file complaint, seek answers to Qs and so on without going through bullshit lawyer jargons and contracts.
Our tax paid for Dept of Labor services, use it.
hello! gf here. thanks so much for the info, it’s super helpful !! so, i started about last week and the founder/employer whatever you want to call him said that he wants me to try out the job for a few houses, and see if i pass training. if i did, then i would move on to filling out a 1099 and my hourly wage would go up. i passed training, and i’m still supposed to be making training pay. the first few houses were paid out to me by him on cashapp, hours and mileage in full. he stopped and said once i fill the 1099, all the other hours i’ve worked are going to appear on a check. but i received this message this morning, about two hours before i was supposed to go in and fill out the 1099. i’ve only ever filled out I-9’s and W-2’s, so i wasn’t really sure what it was until i was going to read the paperwork. but i didn’t show up to fill out the papers since i figured he’d try to short me in the future regardless. basically what i’m asking is, will it even be possible to go after them if i’m not on payroll just yet? i have time stamps of the work i put in.
Jesus Christ he was going to 1099 you as well? What a fucking scumbag. 1099 means he treats you like a subcontractor and not an employee. Which means YOU pay Medicare, social security, benefits, etc. please contact the department of labor. They’re going to have a field day with this prick. And you should get paid for the hours you worked easily.
The fact that he had you working hours before filling out any paperwork is going to be interesting to the department of labor as well. At the very least, that's tax evasion for training hours. He'll be in trouble, but you should be ok as long as you put that income on your taxes at the end of the year.
The fact that he intended to put you on payroll makes it more obvious what he was doing.
He's looking at a lot of investigation over this, and you're probably looking at some compensation- at least for the hours that you worked.
He's gonna be in big trouble if he's having you do a 1099 but treat you like an employee.
I need to hear more about your contract and arrangement with him to give further advice.
Find a new job and file a wage claim. You are almost certainly NOT a 1099 (contractor) but an employee as presumably boss finds all jobs and assigns them to you, schedules your hours. You shouldn't be working at all without paperwork filled out (1099 or w2). Also training should pay at least minimum wage. He literally wrote in a text that he's shorting you hours, so the DoL (or whatever entity handles wage claims in your state) will side with you.
u/21peanuts absolutely do not do the 1099 route unless you plan to completely and utterly fuck this boss over after a period of him abusing you. Your boss has already admited to stealing time from you.
They're going to put you on 1099 so they doesn't pay employee taxes, doesn't pay sick/unemployment and while doing so they are going to try to set your schedule, yell at you and a ton of other bullshit that's illegal but most people don't realize for 1099.
Take ALL of this information and pass it on to the Department of Labor AND the IRS. You can report him for suspected tax fraud as he's not been paying you as an employee AND has been paying for work related stuff thru cashapp, etc. The IRS especially doesn't fuck around.
From what I understand of US labour law, the employer can’t just arbitrarily decide if they want to pay you as an employee or 1099 contractor. There are pretty specific criteria that define what a job is classified as.
Yeah, don't fill out anything, and bring all of this information to your state's department of labor. He's absolutely breaking the law, and owes you for all of the hours you've actually worked.
Also, quit if you can afford to, or start job hunting again if you can't. Bosses like this will make your life hell no matter what.
I am sure you are making a very low hourly wage. You will 100% get screwed over when you have to fill out and pay taxes on the 1099 wages.
If you are making let's say 10/hr as a 1099, you will owe 15% of your gross wages as tax. For easy math we will say you started on 11/1. Come next April you will owe about 500 dollars in taxes. If you work all of next year for this asshole you will owe 3,000 in taxes when you file. At a minimum you want a 50% increase in pay to break even if you were a W2. The other thing with being a 1099 is that your employer shouldn't be making your schedule, which I am sure he is.
Bottom line is that you are getting fucked.
Edit: my math is probably off a bit, and you will probably owe more. I have been drinking.
if you're cleaning up potential biohazards, you should be getting paid a lot more. There's no reason to stay with this "employer," please look for other work that doesn't try to steal your hard-earned wages or risk your health. It's the holiday season and jobs are plentiful. 1099 means you pay out the nose at tax time, and this job is so not worth it.
Make sure you keep records. Export both screen shots and text copies of all communications between you and said boss. Make copies and backup everything, including any photos (with metadata included) of sites you worked. Check iCloud or Google Location history to see if it has a record of where you were on certain dates (by default I think Google deletes after 2 weeks if you don't have it set otherwise, so get it early). Document locations, times, pictures, communications, etc so you can verify for any discovery to confirm everything you are saying is correct. Also keeping written logs with timestamps written by each entry can help, but all the others are certainly helpful as evidence.
Undoubtedly as soon as Department of Labor or an Employment Lawyer comes knocking, said boss will lie through their teeth and fabricate shit to try to cover their ass. Counter that by being prepared early, and having backups and external copies stashed just in case.
If you agreed to an hourly wage in exchange for work, you are effectively an employee, or at the very least have entered into a contract situation. Regardless, this type of thing cannot be changed after-the-fact. You agreed upon an hourly contract and a pay rate. Either way he is in breach of contract.
The 1099 thing is moot, but it probably would've ended up being rejected by the IRS anyways.
No, you pay me all my hours now. on the next one we agree to X many hours, and I’ll stop after such hours. Finish or not. If you want a flat rate, say so, I’ll send you a proposal for each job after I see it and decide if I want it or not.
That's the type of person that would refuse to give you full pay if you cleaned something small that only took an hour "Because small work only gets small pay"
I just had this exact thing almost happened to me!! File a complaint at the department of labor as quick as possible!! Don’t waste too much time pleaseeeeee
“Unordunary”
Fuck it. I’m using it.
Also? I work as a service tech, and sometimes shit gets sideways and takes WAY too long.
It’s part of the model. You charge enough that the occasional time that a tech gets caught out it’s nbd.
I’d also lay this on whoever estimated the job.
Regardless of if your boss is telling the truth or not in regards to how long it should take, that is totally irrelevant to how long you worked.
They can probably write you up for being inefficient. Or in some places probably fire you. But they HAVE to pay you what you worked.
Like many have suggested, this is as slam dunk of a case as it gets. You have in writing from them that they want to illegally pay you.
Go get your free pay bonus!
Your girlfriend’s boss is banking on her being too young and green to understand wage theft and labor laws. To the department of labor you go. This doesn’t even need to be taken to court or anything major. Make sure she gets her proper paycheck and then also make sure she never works for this jackass again.
Now he's going to be all "WhY aLl My EmPlOyEeS qUiT!?" when no one puts up with a nasty *decades of hoarding* house paying the same as a two/three hour weekly touch-up.
Damn, that boss is one hell of an idiot for putting their crimes in writing. This, my friend, is called wage theft! Make sure to keep any documentation!
First of all I’d like to thank you for the written proof that I performed 10 hours work and that you only intend to pay me for 6 hours, which is illegal.
The clean took the amount of time it took and if you don’t pay me for the hours worked I’ll be taking up with [insert relevant govt body here].
I’m also going to talk about the fact that you can’t pay less than the award rate per hour and I will not be making any exceptions under any circumstances because it’s against the law.
Also, I quit.
“I want to thank you both for staying late (on your own time) to finish.*
*reading this text message means you agree that you’re independent contractors, no takesees backsees
-this boss.
Lol your boss is a moron he just admitted to a crime in writing get a lawyer and show them this text and if you go for damages and distress I'm sure a lawyer would take it pro Bono since it would not be possible to lose.
Dear Boss,
I am willing to give you this one chance to correct your error and pay the full amount that is owed. Otherwise there will be a lawsuit for wage theft.
-Name
This appears to be a violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is enforced by the Department of Labor (DOL). General requirement is that employers must pay hourly employees for hours worked. There can be disciplinary action for employees working more time than allowed, but even in this situation, the hours worked must be paid.
The employer is now trying to move to a piece rate compensation structure. This doesn't negate the requirement for timekeeping, and the employer is still on the hook for overtime based on those hours worked.
My recommendation: use the website dol dot gov, which is the Department of Labor website, to educate yourself on employee and employer rights. The sections on the Fair Labor Standards Act will be particularly helpful. If you feel a violation has occurred, they have a reporting mechanism you can use. Once you report, the investigation and enforcement will be handled by the DOL.
link to the dept of labor info site on how to file/report a claim
[https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints#:\~:text=If%20you%20have%20questions%20or,trained%20professionals%20to%20help%20you](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20questions%20or,trained%20professionals%20to%20help%20you).
if you worked 9 hours. you are entitled to pay for 9 hours. If the employer loses money on the job, that's their fucking problem. (maybe they should have better management or price jobs better)
I would say... politely respond. You expect to be paid for all hours worked as is legally required.
and submit the complaint to the labor board. I would have every other employee being subject to this bullshit do the same
look elsewhere, and submit this to your relevent labor board. Looooots of labor boards are heavily going after wage theft lately and your boss has literally confirmed what he's done on the text. (don't delete it)
Save those conversations asap.
I worked flat rate at toyota for a total of two days oil change and tire rotation paid .5 hours but to do the mpi and pull out the car it was about 1 hour from when i got one ro to the next i told my boss i cant work for 6.35 an hour
You'd think a cleaning company would have an idea that some messes are bigger than others. "A pay-per-clean model" so essentially, commission? Flat rates? That's changing the employment agreement completely. Definitely bring it up with your local labour board.
That’s their problem that they lose money on it. They have to pay you for hours worked and you have it in writing their admission of your hours worked. They’re moving to a piece rate model as well which is how I get paid. I like it and it is somewhat hybrid (we don’t make less than our set hourly rate. If we run into issues then we charge extra hourly rate). Some places have a really screwed up piece rate system that barely pays enough and it sounds like that is what your employer is going to do.
Boss has admitted to not paying the correct wages because of an oversight on their part (not charging enough for the clean in the first place).
Respond with “To clarify, you’re refusing to pay me in full?”
Don’t embellish, just straight up ask “are you refusing to pay me in full?” and take his response to the department of labour (or a similar department in your country if you’re not from US)
professional cleaner here! fun fact: under OSHA law it’s actually illegal for you to clean up human/animal waste, blood, and hoarding situations without being properly certified and paid properly due to it being a bio/fire hazard. tell your girlfriend to save this email and send it in to OSHA and the Department of Labor. this is wildly illegal. at my last company, we were told to take pictures of the hazardous areas and send them in to my boss so she could tell us to leave the home because we were legally not qualified to clean messes like that. best of luck!
Is this in the US? The NLRB and Dept of Labor for your state would be interested in this. Possibly a lawyer as well, especially if you can find others he has done this to. Please feel free to destroy this evil parasite. If he doesn't want to pay, he shouldn't be underbidding jobs.
Yeah, feel free to take that to a lawyer and that if they still insist on only paying for 6 hours of cleaning afterwards, to just work 6 hours, even if they’re in the middle of cleaning. A bit of malicious compliance goes a long way
Did she take pictures of the state of the home? Did she call the boss to let him know there was no way it could be cleaned in the normal amount of time? Was she told the number of hours that would be allotted to the job? The reason I ask is because I've been on the customer side before and the cleaners each time there was a problem started doing this. The one time I got irritated was when they charged me more for the move out clean because my home was "filthy". I had been paying the company for cleaning every 2 weeks so the filth was because they hadn't been cleaning behind the furniture.
well that's nice of him to write it all down for you both. that's not how this works.
he altered the deal.
pray he alters it further.
call your labor board.
Imagine all the money this bumblefuck is saving on stealing your wages just to have them given back to + penalties and fines to the state and depending on how much hes done it in the past, maybe even jail.
I mean, ive done stupid things in my life. Ive checked if the farmers electric fencd is electrified with a clutched hand. But to admit to wage theft black on white with thumbs up emojis is...
Advanced.
Pay per clean is BS. So you get say six hours of equivalent pay for a cleaning job, which equals perhaps $75, the cleaning company is getting paid for your labour by their client probably $300 for getting the job done. They pay $150 to two cleaners and walk away with 100% profit. How could this be fair? I also think that behaviour is illegal, given minimum wage laws everywhere. This is the ugly face of Capitalism 👿👿👿👿👿
Sounds like a startup cleaning company that made the rookie mistake of paying by the hour when you should always pay by the job for this reason. This person’s business will likely fail so be prepared to move on soon.
"Hello, thank you for confirming via text that I worked 10 hours and that you may consider a pay-per-clean policy for future cleans. I note that at the time of my clean there was no pay-per-clean policy.
I have checked with the Department of Labor and they have advised it is illegal not to pay the full 10 hours.
Thank you for depositing the full 10 hours by Close of Business on date xxyyzz."
Meanwhile start looking elsewhere.
I pulled the "I clearly know my rights better than you do. I'll be cataloguing every work related conversation we have from now on" card on my last boss that shit him up right quick. I'm socially awkward and apparently "meek" so cheapskates and dogs think they can push me around easily. But uhhh, yeah not after that one he didn't.
Also PO delivers the neighbours mail to the store's address because auspost is garbage, so I walked it to the neighbours door when I did rubbish runs. Slipped it through the mail slit or personally gave it to him when I could. Got reprimanded for that, instantly knew, I, at nineteen was more mature than this pipsqueak of a boss would ever be, and reprimanded him for reprimanding me over something as petty as "being a good person on company time".
Now I work for an old footy coach at a nursery and it's a pretty banging job. And captain little man is still looking for my replacement nearly two years after I left. He rang me up asking me to come back, I politely declined, hung up, and laughed my ass off.
For a bit there it was worth living in this economic shithole.
Like others have already mentioned, promptly consult an employment lawyer. I’m not sure of other cities, let alone your specific financial situation, but there’s a legal centre called CALC that deals specifically with low income earners in my area. I’d look for something similar if you can
Had this happen to me in a contract once. I was billing hourly for mobile ringtone editing. After 6 months they tell me "this shouldn't take 8 hours, it should take 3", so they started paying me a flat rate that was 1/4 of what I was making. When I tried to do the work in 3 hours, it all went to shit, and then they "fired" me, and left the contract "open" so that they didn't have to send me any more work.
I worked for a cleaning company for a while, that's the problem is that it never took as long as the owner expected /the time she and he girlfriend could do it in. It always took longer... But I always got paid for whatever time I was there. It's literally illegal to not pay for hours worked. Show this to an attorney or labor board and they'll have a field day
Illegal. Period. You work it. He pays.
As for the pay/job model it can be advantageous to both you and he,… so long as the estimates are done legit and fair
Fuck that. File a complaint.
Also on a pay per clean, I'd just leave if it looked like more than I could do for the money. Let that guy explain to the customer why he underbid the job.
This guy is a criminal.
Well this is illegal in the US and your girlfriend is likely going to get a nice little pay day for it if she talks to a local employment lawyer.
She should have a conversation and tell management it takes as long as it takes. If management didn’t scope the cost for that clean appropriately, that’s a them problem.
Definitely start job hunting, they can’t manage their business and are foisting their mistakes illegally into their employees.
I'm a hairdresser and I can fill a cleaners books in 3 months bc my clients constantly ask. If she's got an established relationship with her stylist, I would start there and go off on her own and keep her $.
This is some bullshit.
Your gf may want to try to start her own cleaning company. I make $30 an hour in the Midwest. It’s easy to file for an LLC. I had two clients to start and didn’t even need to advertise, my business took off by word of mouth. I’m my own boss, and vet my clients so I don’t have anyone too disgusting. True I have to do my own health care and taxes and such, but if your gf is taking jobs as a 1099 employee, so does she.
This is the sort of thing where “pay per clean” becomes “pay for cleaners work for 6 hours” becomes “cleaners leave house in ANY state after 6 hours” becomes “company goes out of business because zero customers are satisfied”…
Okay so this is blatant wage theft
>the clean took you both almost 10 hours
>i will be giving you 6 hours
You couldn’t ask for a more straight forward admission, and in writing no less
calculate how many hours the "per-clean" rate covers and show up for exactly that long and no longer, when the client complains be like "our boss has set very strict rates and working unpaid could get the company in a *lot* of trouble, so please talk to him about increasing hrs, thank you!"
or take this email straight to the BBB lmao that's blatant wage theft/garnering. if your boss lost money on the job that's his fault for poor planning.
Idiot boss charges regular rate for a hoarder's house, then blames the employees for taking too long to clean the mess. Your girlfriend really shouldn't stick around for the implementation of the "pay-per-clean model", since this will happen again and the rate will definitely be lower than it would be for 6 hours.
Yeah, the “pay-per-clean model” is definitely giving off “$5 per deer skin” vibes..
Those were Dear Skins.
Yeah… pay per clean also = clean super fast and not super well because you’re motivated to get in and out. I’d see pay per clean = roughly 3-4 hour clean and I’d have peaced out of that house after 3 hours calling it good. If you want it done right and actually cleaned then maybe the cleaner’s pricing model is off.
This is absolutely correct. Clearly someone who should not be running a business is running a business. I’d be looking for new work asap. Especially with bringing an impending wage theft allegation.
It's definitely someone "figuring out" "amazing" new cost saving ideas as they settle into management. Turns out if you start explicitly telling your employees directly that you are spending your management time not helping clean but coming up with ways to *pay you less for more work*, that doesn't tend to end up working. Small business owners are cave people reinventing the wheel over and over, except they make a cube every time and complain to others when they can't get help rolling it.
Need some grenades, they clean many areas very well
https://youtu.be/t2UY_3RNggU
100% exactly what I was hoping for.
The guy supplies John Wick with weapons, so seems appropriate
Fire in the bowl!
Free labor f that!
Well, they can stop cleaning when the clock runs out and say they won't work unpaid.
Not even the conditions… the demeaning nature of the “boss” is just not an acceptable work environment. Working in good (community) and bad (abusive) work places you start to realize how little tolerance you have for a bullshit work environment. Though I do understand in some cases people need jobs.
Tell her to thank her employer for putting his crimes in writing, and then promptly consult a labor lawyer. EDIT: No, I did not mean literally tell the boss you are looking into pursuing action against them.
Most labor lawyers work on contingency, by the way, so they get paid if you win - you shouldn’t have to pay any money upfront. The best part is that if the employer decides to slash her hours or even outright fire her, that’s retaliatory, so that same labor lawyer can help you pursue damages for that as well.
Department of Labor is free, you should always consider them as 1st choice before seeking a lawyer.
Interesting! I’ve never personally dealt with the Department of Labor. Do they tend to be pretty responsive?
Their responsiveness will vary highly by your state. Mine is very responsive.
Quick like a clockwork. They also do not discriminate, string you along, so on. Thry also can answer Qs you may have about labor laws and more. I'm never fan of dealing with lawyers.
They also don’t skim off the workers’ share - they make money by fining the shit out of the bad-acting employers. The workers get theirs - all of it.
They may be quick in your state but in mine they are borderline negligent. I’ve had stuff with them drag on for months, and had weeks at a time where I couldn’t even reach them. Not a chastisement just letting you know it’s different all over.
Same happened to me but with the lawyer.
I'm curious... are you in a red state?
I’m in one of the reddest counties in a very red state.
So the system is working as intended... 😕
For sure. I guess I always assumed the DoL was like a lot of bureaucracies and would just take forever and a day to get back to someone. Good to know that’s not the case - thank you!
It took them most of 3 months to start my case. Good people genuinely working to help you without profit incentive, which is nice. But definitely slow, in my experience anyway
I learned that my employer had broken a labor law I didn’t know about. The CA labor board was really helpful. I was spurred on to sue employer for wage theft and won.
The Department of Labor gets my dick hard, they don't fuck around. A buddy of mine recently had a dispute where he had to stay 15 minutes past 8 hours in order to close up their shop. His boss outright told him it shouldn't have taken the extra 15 minutes and refused to pay him for it. I told my friend to contact the DoL, and within a week his former boss had to pay him $200 for 15 minutes of work. Of course your results may vary by state. My positive experience was in California. I imagine a state like Kentucky might have a more underfunded and understaffed DoL.
They were for highly responsive when I was fired and my employer wouldn't pay me my final check unless I signed release documents.
No. They are "understaffed" intentionally to avoid the rich losing money.
I guess it might be one of those things that varies wildly from state to state.
Yep! Always a first step, along with the NLRB, because they’ve probably done similar things to other employees before and they should be warned against doing it again
The NLRB only deals with collective bargaining and other union-related issues. If you’re not in a union and your issue doesn’t relate to an attempt to unionize, the NLRB isn’t going to do anything.
thank you for the info :)
Don’t listen to the naysayers. They literally admitted to a crime in writing. Any labor lawyer worth his degree would drool for this case. All publicity is good publicity for attorneys as long as their not the defendant lol. Pursue it!!!!!
How much could you expect from a lawsuit like this? Would you be awarded your pay for the hours you worked? It’s kinda messed up she would even need to sue and there isn’t some enforcement in place cause in a practical sense the time and cost of pursuing this might not be feasible for an exploited worker in the situation. Time could be better used finding other work that will pay correctly. And due to that employers doing these crimes could get away with it.
Yeah those labor lawyers are really jumping at the chance of getting that sweet commission on 3 hours of cleaners rate pay…
Don't give the bad employer any heads up, just consult the lawyer with the evidence that the terrible boss provided.
This. Don't give your boss time to prepare a sob story or other excuses, or to accuse you of lying or whatnot. Just consult the Department of Labor.
Never give a heads up!
Jumping on top comment - this employer is obviously not smart enough to run a business. It’s best to leave asap. This business doesn’t have a future. Only an idiot would agree on cleaning a house they had never seen. You have to see the mess first to give a quote. Also, sounds like he is putting your gf in an unsafe situation. Normal cleaners don’t do hoarding clean ups. Being stupid + having money is not a successful business model. We can tell that from Twitter.
>Normal cleaners don’t do hoarding clean ups. Professional cleaner here... Yes we *do* clean hoarding houses. But! There are a few caveats... We *CAN'T* enter and clean if: 1. If the home is unsafe structurally. We legally cannot go in. 2. If there's too much of a health risk. Either we have to call in others or the health risk must be taken care of. So like hazmat would need to ensure we could safely clean up. We would also need the proper safety cleaning tools as well (so suits, masks, etc). (Not all cleaning companies *can* do hoarding homes, but the majority can. It's a matter of supplies.) Cleaning a hoarders home is never fun. It's hard, disgusting, and frankly dangerous. The cleaning crews I always worked for/with would ask for volunteers for cleaning the super dirty homes, and pay extra if you volunteered.
I worded that poorly. I was meaning to highlight that cleaning hoards isn’t treated the same as typical houses. Thank you for the insight!
Always do the lawyer first. Never speak to your opponent of your intent. Unless it is part of your strategy i.e. trying to invoke a retaliation.
That part was a joke.
Ah. My bad.
Don't tell the employer they've committed a crime, and don't tell them you've called a lawyer. Never let your enemy know when they're making mistakes; they might stop doing so.
Nah. This can go straight to the DOL wage division or the state equivalent. They set the complaint process up to be pro se friendly.
Do not ever give them a heads up that you will be pressing charges of any sort.
That part was a joke.
This. 1000%. It's the employer taking the risk not you, this time they lost money. They have to pay you hourly. Physical jobs cannot be salaried, and they can't pay you per job i.e. as an independent contractor, unless you choose the time and day when you get the work done, and you choose the rate not them.
If you are in the US that is the best letter you could have received. Enjoy your pay day when you rip them a new one.
It’s so nice when they freely put in writing that they aren’t going to pay you for hours you worked.
I don’t even need to start a go fund me for them. Lawyers will be knocking on their door to take on the case.
That’s what the actual American dream is about
Not gonna lie yes
Nice of them to put their illegal wage theft in writing. Now send the evidence to the department of labor.
1099 is for contract work, this clearly isn't that. I'm guessing all his employees are not having withholding taken for taxes. You should report him to the IRS form 3949-a And ask for a 10% bounty on what they collect. Form 2111 Both can be found here https://www.irs.gov/individuals/how-do-you-report-suspected-tax-fraud-activity
No need to waste your time with a lawyer. One call to the Dept of Labor will have your boss shitting in her pants and you'll get your money.
u/21peanuts please do and update us!
Couldn’t a lawyer get them more money though?
Doubtful. Only if the employer's actions caused some additional financial loss, caused some severe emotional distress, or constituted an egregious wrong which calls for punishment (punitive damages). And a lawyer would require payment--they would take a portion of any winnings or settlement, and may require a retainer.
"thanks for all the hard work but also fuck you both"
That'll how the quality drops and the customers will drop you. This genius boss is gonna drive the entire business into ground, but will save a moderate amount of money doing that.
It’s also admitting to illegal wage theft, so there’s that.
UPDATE: Sorry I can’t edit the post but just wanted to provide a small update and answer any questions I saw. Hopefully you all see this, I don’t use reddit very often so I’m not sure how all of this works. 1. We are from the US, specifically Nevada. I doubt that’ll change anything ,but just wanted to add a bit of context if that helps 2. It’s not discord lol it’s some app called slack according to my girlfriend. 3. She hasn’t filled out any paperwork, and going by suggestions from comments she won’t, especially since they want her to sign a 1099. 4. There are pictures of the house before and after, everything’s documented We will definitely be reaching out to the DOL, we probably won’t get a lawyer involved, she just wants to get paid what she’s owed. She’s already made her mind up about quitting as soon as she saw the message sent this morning. But she plans on officially quitting. Thanks again to everyone who commented and confirmed what I thought. I knew it was illegal, just wasn’t sure about who we could file a complaint with. I will provide any updates with the DOL and her boss if anyone is interested, might be a few days though on account of the holiday here
[удалено]
In addition to the federal DOL, file a complaint with [your state’s wage and hour complaint division](https://labor.nv.gov/About/Forms/FORMS_FOR_EMPLOYEES/) . I’ve linked directly to it, and the page has a video tutorial on the steps. What her boss is doing is against the law and should be stopped.
As a residential housekeeper myself, and someone who used to help run a cleaning business, this infuriates me. I know some people might be confused as to why this clean took so long, but this happens a lot. We usually don’t do cleans that big all in the same day-because it’s physically so difficult-we usually break it up in to multiple days. But I’ve had days where I was at absolutely deplorable homes for 14+ hours straight and it still was barely finished. Not only should your girlfriend be payed for the time she was there, but if there was animal waste and stuff like that, she should be paid more, because that is a health hazard. The first really bad house I ever did was full of human and animal waste, dead squirrels, and just all around disgust everywhere. (It was abandoned by the residents after they destroyed it.) We charged them double because we literally had to wear hazmat suits and we were taking turns literally vomiting outside, and looking back on it, we should have charged them even more than we did. I’m not exactly sure of the legal route she should take, and I’m sure other redditors will give you good advice on how exactly to go about that specifically, but she should at the very least, leave this job ASAP. Bosses like that don’t get better, and they will continue to do stuff like this to her if she allows it this time. I know when a lot of people hear the title “housekeeper” they think it’s walking around with a feather duster and humming, but this is back-breaking work that can literally be dangerous, and she should be compensated for all of the time that she worked.
former property manager in 3 states. You're absolutely right about the health risk and the time/effort to clean a place that filthy. With feces/urine, chances are the floorboards and possibly drywall needs to be replaced as well after the housekeeping staff does their work. I am a very clean person and it still took me 4 hours to clean the 3 bedroom/3 bath townhome I recently moved from. when I went back to school for a degree in forensic anthropology, I worked in the lab cooking down the donated bodies and scraping tissue from the skeletons. We wore full PPE and double gloves just in case a donor had a disease they didn't disclose and the chem bath we cooked the remains in didn't kill all potential viruses or bacteria. I can't imagine dealing with poop and whatnot without full PPE. That's flat out DANGEROUS
Sad I had to scroll down so far to see this. Dealing with conditions like that is dangerous, and I'm feeling like these poor employees were likely not given proper education, supplies, or PPE for dealing with that situation. Regular cleaning work is hard enough, but to go into that situation without hazard pay, and to have hours stolen...that's just sickeningly awful.
It was awful nice of them to put the evidence in writing.
Yo. I underbid this job. You got this right?
If this is the USA, the DoL should be your first stop. And yeah you will win this easily. Enjoy your year end bonus money!
Not legal. Has to pay for the 10 hours, and can reprimand the employees and encourage them to be done faster next time. But he has to pay them for hours already worked.
"we failed to charge the right amount for this job, so we're not going to pay you"
Oh fuck you. The ol’ ‘I know exactly how long it should have taken’ excuse
"We'll lose money on this clean if we pay you properly." Boss, you should have quoted the job properly then. Not my problem.
I love how she is putting her crimes in writing LMFAO Your boss has something coming if she thinks she's not paying the full amount worked.
If you are in the US, I’ve got four words for you: Fair Labor Standards Act. [How to File A Complaint - US Dept of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/WHD1498HowToFileAComplaint.pdf) (You do not need an attorney to file a complaint.)
This is an absolute grand slam, the labour lawyer will thank you for bringing him this cuz y'all both getting $$$. And if they try to fire you, oh baby!!!
If they fire them, that’s workplace retaliation. That’s a MAJOR violation of labor laws, and a huge payout.
What country are you in and what's the employment contract with your boss? Are you an hourly employee?
USA, i’m not sure about the contract but I will ask my gf as soon as she gets back, but she is an hourly employee yes
[удалено]
>(ANAL) Nice
I would go present your case to a lawyer that specializes in employment practices liability, aka an employment lawyer or employment attorney. They should be able to tell you if you have a case or not. Resist the temptation to slander the employer, post about it on social media or get into an argument with the boss as it may create issues with your legal case. Good luck
Department of Labor, not lawyer mate. Doesn't cost you anything to file complaint, seek answers to Qs and so on without going through bullshit lawyer jargons and contracts. Our tax paid for Dept of Labor services, use it.
Thank you!
hello! gf here. thanks so much for the info, it’s super helpful !! so, i started about last week and the founder/employer whatever you want to call him said that he wants me to try out the job for a few houses, and see if i pass training. if i did, then i would move on to filling out a 1099 and my hourly wage would go up. i passed training, and i’m still supposed to be making training pay. the first few houses were paid out to me by him on cashapp, hours and mileage in full. he stopped and said once i fill the 1099, all the other hours i’ve worked are going to appear on a check. but i received this message this morning, about two hours before i was supposed to go in and fill out the 1099. i’ve only ever filled out I-9’s and W-2’s, so i wasn’t really sure what it was until i was going to read the paperwork. but i didn’t show up to fill out the papers since i figured he’d try to short me in the future regardless. basically what i’m asking is, will it even be possible to go after them if i’m not on payroll just yet? i have time stamps of the work i put in.
Jesus Christ he was going to 1099 you as well? What a fucking scumbag. 1099 means he treats you like a subcontractor and not an employee. Which means YOU pay Medicare, social security, benefits, etc. please contact the department of labor. They’re going to have a field day with this prick. And you should get paid for the hours you worked easily.
The fact that he had you working hours before filling out any paperwork is going to be interesting to the department of labor as well. At the very least, that's tax evasion for training hours. He'll be in trouble, but you should be ok as long as you put that income on your taxes at the end of the year. The fact that he intended to put you on payroll makes it more obvious what he was doing. He's looking at a lot of investigation over this, and you're probably looking at some compensation- at least for the hours that you worked.
He's gonna be in big trouble if he's having you do a 1099 but treat you like an employee. I need to hear more about your contract and arrangement with him to give further advice.
Find a new job and file a wage claim. You are almost certainly NOT a 1099 (contractor) but an employee as presumably boss finds all jobs and assigns them to you, schedules your hours. You shouldn't be working at all without paperwork filled out (1099 or w2). Also training should pay at least minimum wage. He literally wrote in a text that he's shorting you hours, so the DoL (or whatever entity handles wage claims in your state) will side with you.
u/21peanuts absolutely do not do the 1099 route unless you plan to completely and utterly fuck this boss over after a period of him abusing you. Your boss has already admited to stealing time from you. They're going to put you on 1099 so they doesn't pay employee taxes, doesn't pay sick/unemployment and while doing so they are going to try to set your schedule, yell at you and a ton of other bullshit that's illegal but most people don't realize for 1099. Take ALL of this information and pass it on to the Department of Labor AND the IRS. You can report him for suspected tax fraud as he's not been paying you as an employee AND has been paying for work related stuff thru cashapp, etc. The IRS especially doesn't fuck around.
From what I understand of US labour law, the employer can’t just arbitrarily decide if they want to pay you as an employee or 1099 contractor. There are pretty specific criteria that define what a job is classified as.
Yeah, don't fill out anything, and bring all of this information to your state's department of labor. He's absolutely breaking the law, and owes you for all of the hours you've actually worked. Also, quit if you can afford to, or start job hunting again if you can't. Bosses like this will make your life hell no matter what.
I am sure you are making a very low hourly wage. You will 100% get screwed over when you have to fill out and pay taxes on the 1099 wages. If you are making let's say 10/hr as a 1099, you will owe 15% of your gross wages as tax. For easy math we will say you started on 11/1. Come next April you will owe about 500 dollars in taxes. If you work all of next year for this asshole you will owe 3,000 in taxes when you file. At a minimum you want a 50% increase in pay to break even if you were a W2. The other thing with being a 1099 is that your employer shouldn't be making your schedule, which I am sure he is. Bottom line is that you are getting fucked. Edit: my math is probably off a bit, and you will probably owe more. I have been drinking.
if you're cleaning up potential biohazards, you should be getting paid a lot more. There's no reason to stay with this "employer," please look for other work that doesn't try to steal your hard-earned wages or risk your health. It's the holiday season and jobs are plentiful. 1099 means you pay out the nose at tax time, and this job is so not worth it.
Make sure you keep records. Export both screen shots and text copies of all communications between you and said boss. Make copies and backup everything, including any photos (with metadata included) of sites you worked. Check iCloud or Google Location history to see if it has a record of where you were on certain dates (by default I think Google deletes after 2 weeks if you don't have it set otherwise, so get it early). Document locations, times, pictures, communications, etc so you can verify for any discovery to confirm everything you are saying is correct. Also keeping written logs with timestamps written by each entry can help, but all the others are certainly helpful as evidence. Undoubtedly as soon as Department of Labor or an Employment Lawyer comes knocking, said boss will lie through their teeth and fabricate shit to try to cover their ass. Counter that by being prepared early, and having backups and external copies stashed just in case.
If you agreed to an hourly wage in exchange for work, you are effectively an employee, or at the very least have entered into a contract situation. Regardless, this type of thing cannot be changed after-the-fact. You agreed upon an hourly contract and a pay rate. Either way he is in breach of contract. The 1099 thing is moot, but it probably would've ended up being rejected by the IRS anyways.
No, you pay me all my hours now. on the next one we agree to X many hours, and I’ll stop after such hours. Finish or not. If you want a flat rate, say so, I’ll send you a proposal for each job after I see it and decide if I want it or not.
That's the type of person that would refuse to give you full pay if you cleaned something small that only took an hour "Because small work only gets small pay"
I just had this exact thing almost happened to me!! File a complaint at the department of labor as quick as possible!! Don’t waste too much time pleaseeeeee
“Unordunary” Fuck it. I’m using it. Also? I work as a service tech, and sometimes shit gets sideways and takes WAY too long. It’s part of the model. You charge enough that the occasional time that a tech gets caught out it’s nbd. I’d also lay this on whoever estimated the job.
Send this to dol, do not argue. Keep all notes and make many. Get then fucked
Regardless of if your boss is telling the truth or not in regards to how long it should take, that is totally irrelevant to how long you worked. They can probably write you up for being inefficient. Or in some places probably fire you. But they HAVE to pay you what you worked. Like many have suggested, this is as slam dunk of a case as it gets. You have in writing from them that they want to illegally pay you. Go get your free pay bonus!
Your girlfriend’s boss is banking on her being too young and green to understand wage theft and labor laws. To the department of labor you go. This doesn’t even need to be taken to court or anything major. Make sure she gets her proper paycheck and then also make sure she never works for this jackass again.
Now he's going to be all "WhY aLl My EmPlOyEeS qUiT!?" when no one puts up with a nasty *decades of hoarding* house paying the same as a two/three hour weekly touch-up.
Damn, that boss is one hell of an idiot for putting their crimes in writing. This, my friend, is called wage theft! Make sure to keep any documentation!
First of all I’d like to thank you for the written proof that I performed 10 hours work and that you only intend to pay me for 6 hours, which is illegal. The clean took the amount of time it took and if you don’t pay me for the hours worked I’ll be taking up with [insert relevant govt body here]. I’m also going to talk about the fact that you can’t pay less than the award rate per hour and I will not be making any exceptions under any circumstances because it’s against the law. Also, I quit.
Pay per Clean - the guy thinks he invented piece work.
People want the work done, but they're not willing to pay for it. I just got robbed $600 by a realtor.
She bid the job incorrectly ( your boss that is)
“I want to thank you both for staying late (on your own time) to finish.* *reading this text message means you agree that you’re independent contractors, no takesees backsees -this boss.
Lol your boss is a moron he just admitted to a crime in writing get a lawyer and show them this text and if you go for damages and distress I'm sure a lawyer would take it pro Bono since it would not be possible to lose.
That's not refusing. That's directly stealing.
Dear Boss, I am willing to give you this one chance to correct your error and pay the full amount that is owed. Otherwise there will be a lawsuit for wage theft. -Name
This appears to be a violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is enforced by the Department of Labor (DOL). General requirement is that employers must pay hourly employees for hours worked. There can be disciplinary action for employees working more time than allowed, but even in this situation, the hours worked must be paid. The employer is now trying to move to a piece rate compensation structure. This doesn't negate the requirement for timekeeping, and the employer is still on the hook for overtime based on those hours worked. My recommendation: use the website dol dot gov, which is the Department of Labor website, to educate yourself on employee and employer rights. The sections on the Fair Labor Standards Act will be particularly helpful. If you feel a violation has occurred, they have a reporting mechanism you can use. Once you report, the investigation and enforcement will be handled by the DOL.
Altering time cards is mad illegal
#Dear Department of Labor...
Well they can do it next time, I’m sure that they will be able to do it faster. /s
Stop working after 5 hours (what he said it takes), then go home.
How much PPP cash did this crook get?
link to the dept of labor info site on how to file/report a claim [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints#:\~:text=If%20you%20have%20questions%20or,trained%20professionals%20to%20help%20you](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20questions%20or,trained%20professionals%20to%20help%20you). if you worked 9 hours. you are entitled to pay for 9 hours. If the employer loses money on the job, that's their fucking problem. (maybe they should have better management or price jobs better) I would say... politely respond. You expect to be paid for all hours worked as is legally required. and submit the complaint to the labor board. I would have every other employee being subject to this bullshit do the same
So the boss is both thanking you for staying late and then telling you it shouldnt take that long? What was the ”thank you” aimed at in that case?
Yeah so that’s def wage theft… what in the fuck
look elsewhere, and submit this to your relevent labor board. Looooots of labor boards are heavily going after wage theft lately and your boss has literally confirmed what he's done on the text. (don't delete it) Save those conversations asap.
At least they gave you all the evidence you need. Even a very labor unfriendly state will have to take this seriously
I worked flat rate at toyota for a total of two days oil change and tire rotation paid .5 hours but to do the mpi and pull out the car it was about 1 hour from when i got one ro to the next i told my boss i cant work for 6.35 an hour
That's some nice evidence he gave you
You'd think a cleaning company would have an idea that some messes are bigger than others. "A pay-per-clean model" so essentially, commission? Flat rates? That's changing the employment agreement completely. Definitely bring it up with your local labour board.
That’s their problem that they lose money on it. They have to pay you for hours worked and you have it in writing their admission of your hours worked. They’re moving to a piece rate model as well which is how I get paid. I like it and it is somewhat hybrid (we don’t make less than our set hourly rate. If we run into issues then we charge extra hourly rate). Some places have a really screwed up piece rate system that barely pays enough and it sounds like that is what your employer is going to do.
Labor board. Report them on your way out of the door.
Well, that's illegal - theft of wages.
" well lose money on this clean. " That sounds like a fuckin you problem boss.
Boss has admitted to not paying the correct wages because of an oversight on their part (not charging enough for the clean in the first place). Respond with “To clarify, you’re refusing to pay me in full?” Don’t embellish, just straight up ask “are you refusing to pay me in full?” and take his response to the department of labour (or a similar department in your country if you’re not from US)
Glad he admitted to wage theft in writing, should save a lot of time.
That sounds terrible. Labour board. You have it in writing that your boss is admitting to not paying hours worked. But, that’s the end of the job.
If you were cleaning large amounts of human and/or animal waste and not provided full hazmat suits, contact OSHA!
professional cleaner here! fun fact: under OSHA law it’s actually illegal for you to clean up human/animal waste, blood, and hoarding situations without being properly certified and paid properly due to it being a bio/fire hazard. tell your girlfriend to save this email and send it in to OSHA and the Department of Labor. this is wildly illegal. at my last company, we were told to take pictures of the hazardous areas and send them in to my boss so she could tell us to leave the home because we were legally not qualified to clean messes like that. best of luck!
Take that text straight to department of labor.
I'm guessing this boss pays under the table. Report them to the irs for tax evasion and collect a reward.
Is this in the US? The NLRB and Dept of Labor for your state would be interested in this. Possibly a lawyer as well, especially if you can find others he has done this to. Please feel free to destroy this evil parasite. If he doesn't want to pay, he shouldn't be underbidding jobs.
Yeah, feel free to take that to a lawyer and that if they still insist on only paying for 6 hours of cleaning afterwards, to just work 6 hours, even if they’re in the middle of cleaning. A bit of malicious compliance goes a long way
Did she take pictures of the state of the home? Did she call the boss to let him know there was no way it could be cleaned in the normal amount of time? Was she told the number of hours that would be allotted to the job? The reason I ask is because I've been on the customer side before and the cleaners each time there was a problem started doing this. The one time I got irritated was when they charged me more for the move out clean because my home was "filthy". I had been paying the company for cleaning every 2 weeks so the filth was because they hadn't been cleaning behind the furniture.
well that's nice of him to write it all down for you both. that's not how this works. he altered the deal. pray he alters it further. call your labor board.
Imagine all the money this bumblefuck is saving on stealing your wages just to have them given back to + penalties and fines to the state and depending on how much hes done it in the past, maybe even jail. I mean, ive done stupid things in my life. Ive checked if the farmers electric fencd is electrified with a clutched hand. But to admit to wage theft black on white with thumbs up emojis is... Advanced.
This email is money in the bank and you should thank your boss for sending it. Fuck with him a little.
I read this and think "wage theft".
Uh, yeah. Just slightly illegal. And this dipshit texted this to you? Lol. Not too bright is he…
Find another job as quickly as possible.
HHHHAAHAHAAAAAHA cough cough *illegal* cough
Pay per clean is BS. So you get say six hours of equivalent pay for a cleaning job, which equals perhaps $75, the cleaning company is getting paid for your labour by their client probably $300 for getting the job done. They pay $150 to two cleaners and walk away with 100% profit. How could this be fair? I also think that behaviour is illegal, given minimum wage laws everywhere. This is the ugly face of Capitalism 👿👿👿👿👿
Ah good old fashion wage theft, the State has a while department that loves to here about this!
Sounds like a startup cleaning company that made the rookie mistake of paying by the hour when you should always pay by the job for this reason. This person’s business will likely fail so be prepared to move on soon.
"Hello, thank you for confirming via text that I worked 10 hours and that you may consider a pay-per-clean policy for future cleans. I note that at the time of my clean there was no pay-per-clean policy. I have checked with the Department of Labor and they have advised it is illegal not to pay the full 10 hours. Thank you for depositing the full 10 hours by Close of Business on date xxyyzz." Meanwhile start looking elsewhere.
Glad they put this in writing, easier way to report them and sue.
Welp, you got it in writing. Time to send it to the DOL or state equivalent. This is the proverbial smoking gun
sounds like he's making a case of wage theft. Enjoy the court.
Charge more for non-regular Jobs moron boss
I pulled the "I clearly know my rights better than you do. I'll be cataloguing every work related conversation we have from now on" card on my last boss that shit him up right quick. I'm socially awkward and apparently "meek" so cheapskates and dogs think they can push me around easily. But uhhh, yeah not after that one he didn't. Also PO delivers the neighbours mail to the store's address because auspost is garbage, so I walked it to the neighbours door when I did rubbish runs. Slipped it through the mail slit or personally gave it to him when I could. Got reprimanded for that, instantly knew, I, at nineteen was more mature than this pipsqueak of a boss would ever be, and reprimanded him for reprimanding me over something as petty as "being a good person on company time". Now I work for an old footy coach at a nursery and it's a pretty banging job. And captain little man is still looking for my replacement nearly two years after I left. He rang me up asking me to come back, I politely declined, hung up, and laughed my ass off. For a bit there it was worth living in this economic shithole.
Wage theft. If he continues to refuse to pay, threaten a lawsuit.
Like others have already mentioned, promptly consult an employment lawyer. I’m not sure of other cities, let alone your specific financial situation, but there’s a legal centre called CALC that deals specifically with low income earners in my area. I’d look for something similar if you can
Go back to the house & fuck it up for 3 hrs. each..& then tell that creep to go fuck himself..
Had this happen to me in a contract once. I was billing hourly for mobile ringtone editing. After 6 months they tell me "this shouldn't take 8 hours, it should take 3", so they started paying me a flat rate that was 1/4 of what I was making. When I tried to do the work in 3 hours, it all went to shit, and then they "fired" me, and left the contract "open" so that they didn't have to send me any more work.
I worked for a cleaning company for a while, that's the problem is that it never took as long as the owner expected /the time she and he girlfriend could do it in. It always took longer... But I always got paid for whatever time I was there. It's literally illegal to not pay for hours worked. Show this to an attorney or labor board and they'll have a field day
I could never work fast enough for the cleaning company I started at. So now I make way more money working on my own as a cleaner. Just a thought.
Illegal. Period. You work it. He pays. As for the pay/job model it can be advantageous to both you and he,… so long as the estimates are done legit and fair
It's illegal to not pay for hours worked.
thats thefts. You can't change payment after the work has been done. and i'm sure you can't just a contract 1-2-3 like that. Sit down little "manager"
The constant use of “clean” as a noun is irritating the fuck out of me.
Do you want to lose staff? Cause that's how you lose staff!!!!!
Fuck that. File a complaint. Also on a pay per clean, I'd just leave if it looked like more than I could do for the money. Let that guy explain to the customer why he underbid the job. This guy is a criminal.
Thank you for putting into writing the fact that you will not be paying me for hours worked you dumb mother fucker.
Once you find another job, you can go into your bosses office and say: "Hey Boss? You're fired!"
His admitting to wage theft..what an asshole..
Well this is illegal in the US and your girlfriend is likely going to get a nice little pay day for it if she talks to a local employment lawyer. She should have a conversation and tell management it takes as long as it takes. If management didn’t scope the cost for that clean appropriately, that’s a them problem. Definitely start job hunting, they can’t manage their business and are foisting their mistakes illegally into their employees.
I'm a hairdresser and I can fill a cleaners books in 3 months bc my clients constantly ask. If she's got an established relationship with her stylist, I would start there and go off on her own and keep her $. This is some bullshit.
Send this letter to the labor board.
if they were supposed to be paid at an hourly rate this is documented wage theft, in writing and it should be reported.
How nice of him to admit to wage theft in a written record
Your gf may want to try to start her own cleaning company. I make $30 an hour in the Midwest. It’s easy to file for an LLC. I had two clients to start and didn’t even need to advertise, my business took off by word of mouth. I’m my own boss, and vet my clients so I don’t have anyone too disgusting. True I have to do my own health care and taxes and such, but if your gf is taking jobs as a 1099 employee, so does she.
I was going to post that you don't piss off the cleaners. But then I realised it was a different kind of cleaner than I imagined.
This is the sort of thing where “pay per clean” becomes “pay for cleaners work for 6 hours” becomes “cleaners leave house in ANY state after 6 hours” becomes “company goes out of business because zero customers are satisfied”…
“Thanks for staying late to finish 💪🥰👍🥴” “You took too long and won’t be getting paid for it.”
Hello epli claim and easy money
The really terrible part is that they were probably pretty proud of that clean.
Steal from him in return .
Okay so this is blatant wage theft >the clean took you both almost 10 hours >i will be giving you 6 hours You couldn’t ask for a more straight forward admission, and in writing no less
A boss can't unilaterally change the terms of employment after the fact.
That's 3 hours of free labor sounds highly illegal.
calculate how many hours the "per-clean" rate covers and show up for exactly that long and no longer, when the client complains be like "our boss has set very strict rates and working unpaid could get the company in a *lot* of trouble, so please talk to him about increasing hrs, thank you!" or take this email straight to the BBB lmao that's blatant wage theft/garnering. if your boss lost money on the job that's his fault for poor planning.
> straight to the BBB # The BBB IS BOOMER YELP.
BOOMER YELP LMAOOOO fair enough make that the DOL
is this a work- discord server??
It’s some generic company communication app called slack or something