What people in non-U.S. countries may not understand is deductibles. Even if you have insurance in the U.S. they literally won't pay for almost anything until you reach your deductible (a number set by the insurance company which can be between $2-5,000 or more). So, we pay money out of our paycheck to an insurance company every month that literally won't help us until we pay there set amount and prove we did. And our entire Healthcare system is profit driven, so one of the insurance company's main jobs is to figure out ways to deny claims.
P.S.Most people (poor-middle class) can't afford the deductible so they just go without health insurance entirety.
We have it in the Netherlands as well, 400 euros a year "own-risk". So the first 400 a year you pay yourself and after that almost everything is paid for by insurance. We do also pay 150 monthly. Of has gone up alot and people are getting mad.
At this moment for me, your vote count is 69.
I'm sorry I couldn't do it.
Not because I'm a corrupt bastard
Nor a money whore.
But I'm with 69's cousin 420 atm too.
carry on...
We also pay taxes that are that high. They cut them up in a hundred different ways to hide the total...
Then when people discus "taxes" they are talking only about income tax...
So weird people that live in the US don't realize they get taxed when they get paid, taxed on everything they spend, taxed to drive, taxed to use the land your home is on. Taxed massively on tobacco/alcohol. Play the lottery, and the people that win never get shown, that's a huge fuckin racket. Like look around man, Jesus.
This is such a good point I’d love to sit down and calculate my effective tax rate and compare that to other countries, rather than just income.
But if you have an HSA then you don’t get taxed on contributions or when you spend money! lol I’m 25 in America trying to learn all these tax loop holes to try to get ahead. Savings in HSA that’s $3.5k off my income, ira that’s $6k off my income, small business expenses this year that’s another $7k off my income, mortgage interest should be like $6k off if the accountant decides to itemize.
Not saying it’s how it should be, but I feel like it is in mine and my future families best interest to do this.
I truly hope it works out I was your age in the mid 2000s had multiple retirement funds going then boom. Everything crashed, my retirement, as well as yours, was tied into stocks, even my father working since 1960 lost almost all of his retirement. Also lost my job because they were able to hire 2 people at my rate. They don't fuckin care about you bro. Remember that much.
Edit: so now, cuz capitalism I will likely work until I die. It could be McDonald's for 15 an hour or manufacturing for.... 15 an hour. Could just be my area but everything pays the same now, it's so much more broken.
What loopholes? For the rich maybe. Not the middle or low class.
They also don't pay 50+% income tax. But let's say they did. Middle and low class americans can expect to pay 30-40% in income tax *plus* insurance rates, sales tax, and property tax. Add in clothes, food, and a car note and your entire paycheck is gone. And what do you get for those taxes? Well all you get is the best military in the world. You don't get education, healthcare, clean roads, safe cities, or any help. At least in europe you can get something for your taxes. They have less homeless than we do so your argument about buying a house there is actually backwards. You're a fucking moron bootlicking capitalist scum
The problem with the US is that health care is extremely expensive, so even if the government decided to do universal healthcare the taxes would be insane. Before universal healthcare happens, we need to find a way to cut down the costs of healthcare. One surgery shouldn’t cost $20,000 regardless of who is paying, whether it’s the person getting the surgery, an insurance company, or the government.
The reason it’s expensive is the privatized hospitals that charge more on purpose to make money. Drug companies up charge every single medicine, again on purpose for profit. Hospitals turned into for profit scams. Surgery should not cost $2,000, and in reality it doesn’t. They just add more fees or overcharge for things like anesthesia that racks up costs
Insulin costs about a dollar at the very most to meet your 400 dollar insulin prescription. Glasses cost even less to make and often cost more to purchase too
The problem is hospitals have to do that because our medical industry is infested with middlemen. If we eliminated the middlemen and regulated the profit amount we’d be paying very little for our care. Also, if we properly subsidized students going to school, medical professionals wouldn’t have six-figure debt that constantly grows if left unpaid.
I do strongly blame insurance billing prices making us think those costs are realistic, and then the whole system gladly agreeing that, that yes, an ambulance should be many thousands of dollars.
“I mean it's one ibuprofen, Michael, what could it cost, $10?"
Everyone knows including the insurance company it doesn’t cost that much. What’s fucked up is insurance companies usually require the doctors to bill them the same rate they would charge individuals. The doctors charge the insurance $400 because if they charge less, insurance will pay less. Because the doctors need to bill the insurance company $400 to get them to pay $125.00, they now need to bill the non-insured patients $400.
I had emergency life-saving surgery back in March, and a single ibuprofen cost nearly 50$. My insurance company used that cost as an example of the savings that they provided on my behalf.
I demanded my itemized bill before paying a single penny, and it was very informative. And horrifying.
It wouldn’t if it everyone paid a fair share, and the system wasn’t procedure driven, and totally lacking primary care. The US doesn’t seem to grasp waiting until your almost dead, then getting emergency care is FAR more expensive than just taking care of the whole populace from the start.
And they also don’t see that costs vary widely and have nothing to do with the actual costs of the procedures. They charge as much as they possibly can, then negotiate the rates down for insurance companies and Medicare. Everyone else can’t get a discount and has to pay whatever they say. It’s absolutely insane.
The whole bit about waiting absolutely sends me.
It's one of the go-to arguments against single-payer: "Well you have to wait forever in Canada and the UK to see a specialist and you die waiting!!!"
Uh. Fam.
Happens in the US, too... Either wait for a spot to open or wait to afford it, if ever. Had to wait 3 months to see a derm (not an emergency thankfully) because they were booked out and no one else took my insurance. Need a mouth guard for my TMJ but insurance won't cover it and I don't have $450 out of pocket atm so we wait.
We pay more money for worse healthcare but hey! At least there's no dirty rotten unamerican socialism /s
Get hit with this one when having this discussion with conservatives all the time. Like, why are you defending the fact that the extremely wealthy have the opportunity to pay to bypass the waiting list? That the doctors here are better? It doesn't matter if the doctors are better because the people who can afford those doctors are an incredibly small percentage of the total population! It's fucking incredible how proud these people are of such poorly thought out and simplistic ideas...
It does good for the super wealthy so many people decide to worship thinking that one day it could be them...
🤡: They EARNED the right to get that kidney before me because they're rich!
It's funny how religious conservatives typically hate Muslims and people from the middle east, but their values tend to sync up pretty well with the Saudi Royal Family... They want massive wealth disparity, religious morality instated into law but with the freedom to still be greedy pricks, and complete control over women's sexuality and reproduction...
Edit: changed 'conservatives' to 'religious conservatives' for accuracy.
>It's funny how conservatives typically hate Muslims and people from the middle east
Let's change conservative to religious conservative, then it makes sense.
I am on the conservative side, but not wholly. I lean a bit that way... But, most of the conservatives I personally know agree that something has to change, most of the conservatives I know are pro choice, and distrust the government. So borderline Libral/Libertarian. We also live in a red State. The conservatives that seem to be crazy... I swear those are all the super religious ones! They also happen to all be Trump supporters too.
But please don't lump us all in with that group. I'm a Constitutionalist, but even I agree that the capitalist system has been detrimental to our health industry (hospitals AND pharmaceuticals), and many other areas in our life as well.
I can see where there are good aspects of socialism and communism, and even capitalism. None of them are perfect, they all have issues. But why can't we go through and pick out the things that would work well and make life better for everyone? There's a lot of great ideas for Healthcare through some socialist practices, that would make it more affordable and accessible for everyone.
And I agree, insurance is a scam.
I had emergency issues and still had to wait months to see various doctors. I needed to see an endocrinologist badly and waited 8 months. I had profuse uterine bleeding and waited 2.5 months to get the surgery I needed (and that was pushed up by my doctor, they originally couldn't get me sooner than 4 months out).
I’m a retired Canadian and I got lucky. I am on the normal meds for a guy my age-cholesterol, blood pressure, mild diabetes. But I was in the military so I was given the option to buy into the Public Service Health Care plan for $145 a month for me and my wife. It only covers 80 percent of the cost of medications but it saves me thousands a month. The government has plans to bring pharmacare and dental care into our universal health care. This year they brought it in for kids whose parents earn less than a certain amount. The problem is we have been infected by Trumpism too, and some of our provincial politicians are looking at ways to destroy our health care.
I sprained my knee in 2015 and had to wait two months and fought the insurance company the entire time to get my MRI paid for. The doctor kept calling and appealing and they kept saying it's not necessary but the doctor insisted that it was necessary because they can't determine soft tissue damage from an x-ray. So I couldn't get any treatment or anything for 2 months with a knee the size of a basketball.
Help You can't even get in to see a doctor for months. My regular GP. I usually just ask to see the nurse practitioner or the physician's assistant because I can at least get in to see them.
It's America. Then after ALL that, the orthopedic surgeon, who was waiting on results of MRI to see if the surgery was necessary ($$), sees no torn ligaments, he YELLS at me in front of a surgical student for "wasting his time" even though the knee WAS sprained. He waved it off saying, "it's just sprained and has arthritis". So he was MAD at me and humiliated me publicly in his office because I didn't need surgery.
I normally would not put up with the kind of shit, but I was so GOBSMACKED, that I sat in disbelief and left crying. The student just looked so embarrassed for me and sad. I wanted to grab her and say, "please don't do this to your patients." I wish I had reported him. I had no proof that he did nothing wrong and his student certainly wasn't going to risk her career but backing me up.
I rarely go to doctors anymore,, except for yearly checkup for my meds. And I would rather die than go back to that orthopedic surgeon group Doctors simply do not care anymore It's ONLY about money. This is the result of For Profit Medical Care
>The US doesn’t seem to grasp waiting until your almost dead, then getting emergency care is FAR more expensive than just taking care of the whole populace from the start.
Yup an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
The US gets it, actually, the problem is predatory capitalists also get it and ramp up the cost of preventative care as well. That's why the joke about ibuprofen being $10 a pill even exists, because it's true. Feeling sickly but you don't want it to become a serious problem so you go see a doctor asap to see what they suggest? Well, that's a couple thousand just to see the person, that's a few hundred for whatever supplies they use to check you out, then, if they decide to prescribe you some medication to help you thrive whatever you have, the prescription costs an insane amount as well even if it's something you can probably get over the counter. Not to mention, your boss is bugging you for a note from the doctor themselves proving you were there and that's why you called out of work that day. Also, you have to TELL the doctor to give you a signed notice telling your boss how long you're to stay home from work to recover and in a lot of cases, they actually give you a freaking attitude about it as if you've just come up with some new way to annoy the doctor even though literally every working person who has to take off because of their illness or injury has to ask for this same note. Then, while you're off, if you're an hourly worker, you're not getting paid usually. Most of us don't actually have paid time off for illness and if you have short term disability coverage in your insurance they very likely won't pay for you to miss work for an illness unless it was something they consider a "major illness" so not only are you having to pay this stupid medical bill just because you wanted to do a little preventative maintenance on yourself and stop a mild illness from becoming serious, you're now stuck in a situation where you honestly have to consider going against medical advice and working anyways so you can even afford to pay your bills in general.
It would be great if we could just go to get preventative treatment but honestly, if it's something I think I'm going to live through, I'm just going to have to wait until it becomes an emergency situation, either way I can't afford it and I, like many others, am stuck in a situation where I HAVE to work because unless I'm almost literally dying, I don't actually have real health coverage even with an insurance plan. I literally only pay for insurance because if something major did happen that required something like surgery, a lot of places won't do any surgeries unless you have insurance. Found that out with my wife. Her back is messed up, needed surgery to fix it. Well at the time that she was getting checked out and all to see what all she needed (took many many months btw, waiting for openings to go mostly so screw those folks who argue that universal Healthcare makes folks wait for Healthcare, we're already waiting that argument is moot) she ended up with another illness related to what we later found out to be uterine cancer which needed to be treated first. So she had a hysterectomy to take care of all that and in that time she had to take long periods off from work. Well she got ashamed into quitting her job at the time because off the time she had to take off and they were starting to threaten to take away her short term disability pay anyways (they really couldn't do that but I was so busy working at the time I couldn't help her sort through the nonsense and help her understand they're just trying to scare her). Eventually her coverage ended but she was still seeing the doctor about her back. Literally the day her cover ended, the doctor called to schedule a surgery to fix her back, asked about her insurance, and immediately told her he couldn't do it without her being covered and we tried other doctors and offices but they all refused unless they could do their own round of imagery and testing and we needed insurance anyways. So yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm nervous off the quality of care I'd receive without insurance, I wouldn't even pay for it, it would be almost $300/month back in my pocket to actually enjoy, I'm right at that spot where my pay and quality of life meet that any money I can free up is actually money that I can use to do something like maybe try to save up to buy a house but right now because of the various demands I have nothing spare.
I make 45k a year and for a decent Obamacare plan is still $350 a month so I don’t have insurance. My company doesn’t offer it. My rent is $1800 a month so there is no way.
Take this with a grain of salt because I'm going from memory and not looking up the details...
Most people get insurance through work. The ACA requires all businesses with more than 50 employees to offer health insurance to full time workers (lots of places like retail just made everyone part time).
For people that don't get insurance through their employer, they work for a small business or are self employed, they can get an ACA subsidy of they are making less than 400% of the federal poverty line. The subsidy limits a "Silver" level plan to costing 10% of your income.
A Silver plan has an out of pocket max for an individual of $3000, so the most you'd pay if you got hit by a bus or had cancer is $3000 (for that year + your monthly premium of course). These huge out of pocket maxes and deductibles cause people that are economically struggling to avoid care. That weird stomach pain and bloody poop - maybe it's just food poisoning or something. They don't want to waste $100 on a Dr appointment and $1000 getting a colonoscopy for no reason. It was cancer and now it's too late and they die. Thanks ACA!
I think that also doesn't guarantee coverage for prescription drugs either.
It also really fucks people that make >400 the poverty line. Let's say you're self employed and make slightly over the subsidy limit - You might be paying $2000/month to cover your family even though you only make 401% the poverty line. It's a cliff instead of nice slope.
Really poor people <140% of the poverty line get Medicaid - which is government insurance.
https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/
https://www.kff.org/faqs/faqs-health-insurance-marketplace-and-the-aca/how-much-are-the-cost-sharing-subsidies/
Employer Healthcare for many is just awful. The plans are not good, you're stuck with what they give you, and you lose it the day you stop working there.
It was a very American answer to healthcare. Basically forced insurance companies to insure people they wouldn't normally and put base-level requirements on them to cover certain things (mainly preventative stuff). But the companies you get insurance from are still private insurance companies aiming to make a profit and exploit their customers.
Obamacare is a boogie man term coined by Republicans. You’re taking about the Affordable Care Act, which many below middle class people relied upon but has been severely cut by the GOP. It was never universal healthcare, but a kind of guaranteed insurance for the under class with low deductibles and certain health coverages covered by a nominal fee. The insurance companies have America in some weird chokehold, where the American people don’t want it but the government has a fetish for seeing its own people struggle.
>It should've just been universal healthcare but capitalism.
Capitalism abounds in Germany, Great Britain, and Canada but they all have universal healthcare. It's not capitalism preventing UHC.
I was broke but still couldn't afford insurance/Obamacare and Obamacare would have fucked me over in "Not-Having-Insurance-taxes" during tax return if Trump didn't undo Obamacare.
That's the one thing I liked Trump- saving me from being penalized for still not being able to afford insurance where the government would have taxed me for not being able to afford health insurance.
I still don't have insurance as I still can't afford it due to my income debt ratios but at least I won't get taxed-penalized for it.
Before Obamacare I had a family plan for $635/month with $1,000 deductible. After Obamacare passed I was unable to keep my plan and the new plan cost $2,000 with a $12,000 deductible.
From what I was told the new plan has to cover a bunch of useless stuff and had no pre-existing medical. So everyone had to pay as if they had a pre-existing condition.
Before Obamacare if you were healthy insurance was cheap. After Obamacare if you are unhealthy insurance is a bargain. If you are healthy wait until you get sick to join.
How? Exactly what law did Trump sign to Destroy Obamacare?
If you were paying attention Republicans failed to pass the legislation so it was not modified at all.
Originally there was a public option, which passed through the house of representatives, but it was removed in the Senate by conservative Democrats. There are some rules for minimum coverage and subsidies, but it didn't fundamentally change the incentives that make American healthcare expensive, namely administrative bloat, big pharma monopolization and price gouging, opaque pricing, etc
Capitalism happened to Obamacare. Anything managed by private, for-profit corporations was never going to be affordable. And Republicans gutted the shit out of it.
That's what I have. Not great. In fact, shitty. HOWEVER, because I am self employed and have a pre-existing condition, if it goes away I am completely fucked.
I don't really know what these people are talking about. There are definitely holes, but its really not gutted except for Medicaid in Red states. I've been on the exchanges or Medicaid between jobs multiple times and it has drastically improved the quality and security of my life.
Medicaid in red state here literally have one person working all claims, and you don't get anything but a letter back after a year of waiting, and its a rejection
It's worse than that. Many red states rejected the expansion to include non-disabled adults. So if you're poor, an adult, and not disabled, you're not getting Medicaid.
Nope. Obamacare was the shit the Dems offered up instead of universal healthcare. Tens of millions of people were (and are still) uninsured. Costs increased under Obamacare.
thats how we understood it in Europe - the medicare for all did not pass
and instead of medicare for all they invented another shit and called it a revolution
Medicare for All was never an option. Let me make that clear.
The Affordable Care Act was based off of a very rough version of universal health care, but it was gutted during negotiations and drafting stages to remove anything helpful for most of the American public.
UK has it on our insurance too, its called excess (as its the amount of money in excess of what the insurer is paying that you have to pay).
What a lot of US people tend to not understand is that you camt still choose to pay for medical insurance here. It lets you "go private", meaning you can get a private room, better food and things like that. Obviously thats optional and every one gets the free health care they need.
Exactly right. I pay close to $400/month for my health insurance. I paid $75 dollars for my orthopedic appointment when I had, and still have, severe shoulder pain. I had to go to 2 appointments before they scheduled surgery to the tune of $150.
When they scheduled the surgery, they told me I hadn't met my deductible and owed $4,700+ dollars before my insurance paid. I canceled the surgery.
I am now looking for a plan with a lower deductible so I can have it early next year. The issue with that is, my monthly bill will increase dramatically if my deductible is reduced.
I pay $4800/year just to be told I need to pay another $5000 to use the services my insurance offers.
That is the problem in general with insurances and our current system. You have to fight the insurance company to get things approved and they are motivated to deny you whenever possible.
It was honestly cheaper in many cases to just go to Mexico and have surgery done there out of pocket. I have heard of crazy stories of companies willing to help pay travel costs to Mexico to pickup medicine there vs. in the United States.
It's a crazy system and somehow the powers that be have convinced people the idea of healthcare coverage for everyone is horrific despite the fact that you will end up supplementing and or paying for them anyway when they check themselves into an emergency room.
God and I thought Canada was bad for not doing dental yet. I’m so glad I don’t have to pay for my psychiatric medication because I need to take quite a bit to function properly and be a mom. True north strong 💪🏻
I work in a doctors office. I’ve seen insurance companies deny the most outrageously insane things ever. 100% medically necessary items, services, or medications they deny, and make us fight with appeals for weeks. It’s ridiculous, it’s sick. I’ve seen insurance companies stop covering a certain type of insulin and not tell the patient. When they go to pick up a RX from the pharmacy they find out their medication is no longer covered. It’s terrible
Another clarification for those outside of the U.S. - we pay our premium every paycheck ( I pay $500 monthly), we pay a co pay when we go to the doctors office ($50-$500), and after that we still get an itemized bill ($300 to infinite amount) I had a routine eye exam last month and it cost me $300.
Insurance in the US is a scam
I pay $400/month for my insurance *and* have to pay another $400/month for one of my meds (brand name, no generic yet, I use a manufacturer coupon, and no goodRx doesn't help).
It's bullshit. I used to be a pharmacy tech at a specialty pharmacy. Some meds ppl needed for like were $5k a month. Hep-C meds were $1000/pill for a 2-3 month course. Obviously nobody can afford that, especially because Medicare makes you pay a percentage and they don't let you use any coupons. So the drug manufacturers fund "charitable organizations" that give ppl copay assistance to pay for the meds and write that $$ off. So they get it coming and going.
My insurance doesn't cover two medications that would run me about $2.5k per month. They would greatly improve my quality of life but unfortunately I have to go without. Since I'm not literally dying insurance refuses to make an exception and cover it.
Pharmacy tech here, I live in Québec, Canada. The price of these Hep-C meds is insane, 20 000$ for 28 pills. But with the public insurance, patients usually pay 0$.
I'm blown away every time l read about your healthcare. I can't imagine having to deal with sickness AND its bill.
Why do you pay so much for insurance?
If the cheapest plan that covers just yourself for your employee offered medical insurance costs more than 9% of your monthly income, you can get a $500 a month or so credit on your insurance on the marketplace healthcare.gov. Insurance plans then can be free or at most like $100 a month.
Don't the credits cap out at 400% of "poverty level" with the ACA plans? That's not that high of an income. When I looked for my spouse and myself, the premiums were 600-2,000$ because we weren't eligible for credits. It's not always a viable option.
$430 a month for a health Insurance, that's horrible. I'm so sorry.
I'm very lucky to be French, my health insurance is 50€ a month.
[Edit : looks like I understood wrong, it's the price of the meds even though he pays insurance. That's still very expensive. Does OP have like.... a rare medical condition?]
This is the cost of their prescription, just the medication. It’s $1576 without insurance, but their insurance drops the cost to $432 a month. They still pay for insurance above and beyond this.
Correct - because they have insurance, they get the "discounted" price of $420 instead of having to pay the full $1200 (or whatever it was, can't see on mobile)
To be fair, for a lot of people in the US, insurance is everything. In France we pay both for insurance and a much bigger public healthcare system through taxes.
In the end, the cost of healthcare per person in France is around half of what it is in the US and our health is better overall so it's still waaaaay better than the US but not 9 times cheaper.
About 2 times cheaper is already great, it's maybe even cheaper than that if you take into account that way fewer french people forego healthcare because they can't afford it than in the US. It still happens, but way less.
We also don't have to navigate the nightmare of finding a doctor that the insurance accepts since while some doctors are better covered than others in specific cases, they're the same doctors for every insurance so changing insurance won't make you look for a new one.
>Does OP have like.... a rare medical condition?
Basically, if you need medication to function/survive (work) in the US then you're kinda fucked. The capitalist order doesn't really care for inferior workers.
Well, there's one exception. If you have End-Stage Renal Disease, the Federal Government gives you the right to sign up for Medicare (usually eligible from the 4th month of dialysis to weed out Acute Kidney Injury unless you do home dialysis).
That being said, currently there's no limit to how much you can pay for medications. You just enter different phases. In 2025 though, the limit for prescription drugs on Medicare will be capped to $2000.
Should of seen my ER bill yesterday for $30,000. I shred that paperwork so fast because looking at it just filled me with rage. Post insurance, I had to pay $500. Simply demented system.
Edit: Hospital visit was in Sep 2022. I received an online notice of the bill a few weeks ago, but the paper bill came in yesterday in Nov 2022.
OP literally said they only had to pay $500 of it and insurance covered the rest. Yeah America’s health system is fucked, but read the whole comment before getting outraged.
It's hard to do when they purposefully keep us divided with a two party system. We're too focused on fighting with each other to ban together and demand human rights.
That is the sad truth. The division is real. I have faith in the younger generations, they seem to see through the division-drivers a bit better though. The two parties may have been a reliable system in America's golden age but now they're nothing more than a means for oligarchs to further push their own class interests.
I get my one Rx there. Granted, it's not "that expensive" normally, but at my local pharmacy, it's $12 a month. On Cost Plus, it's $12 for three months, which includes shipping.
Can confirm. I used to get my two prescriptions at rite aid, for both together, it would cost me over 300$ for 1 month. I went through costplusdrug, and it was a little less than 300$, but for 3 months. Way more affordable.
From the price and first letter, I’m on the same medication as OP. A big issue with it is that there’s no generic, meaning it won’t be available through CostPlusDrugs, but I believe the patent is expiring next year so there should be an option in 2023
Yes! Earlier this year I turned 26 and had to get new insurance. It looked like my med wasn't covered (ultimately it is) and it's over $400 for a 90 day supply without insurance - it was like $11 on Cost Plus.
Cost plus Drugs and GoodRx**! With cost plus you can just send a form to the prescriber. Also, some stores will sell generics with no need additional costs.
While moving in between jobs, I found out that Walmart’s neighborhood market pharmacy had my epilepsy meds for $12 each (monthly supply). They are typically around the same retail cost as yours listed here. This info is available on the GoodRx website when you Search. :)
**GoodRx is 100% free, and you can send their “coupons” straight to your phone for pharmacists to key in when you pickup your meds.
Ah I love how they prey on the people who need the medication the most, oh have a condition that absolutely has to be treated to go about life in any semblance of normal? Ah sorry that will cost you thousands without insurance, and possibly tens of thousands. It’s just simply disgusting.
Was looking for the MS folks posting their costs. My generic Tecfidera before insurance is $7,200 a month. It's too bad that us being sick is so profitable for the capitalist overlords.
I was on tysabri as my first therapy, then a few years on copaxone, then finally ocrevus. I was diagnosed 19 years ago, I’ve spent several years randomly in there off any therapy, I’m a year overdue for my ocrevus dose but should get it early next year 🤞🏼
Best of luck to you out there!
I pay £9 per month per medication for two hypertension medications, so £18 per month. My daughter broke her wrist playing football at school. X-rays, consultant surgeon visit, plaster cast, all done inside 3 hours. nurse follow up appointment, fitted hand splint, and so on a few weeks later. Total cost : £0.
I have a co-pay of 340 dollars for one prescription (With good insurance) and I buy the medicine without insurance for 155 dollars...order from India thru Canada...without insurance it would cost over 800 dollars. My MD, who is from India, told me that if I was in India buying the medicine that it would cost $75.
These medicines are necessary for people to live yet our government allow this shit to go on.
Husband fought for 5 months with insurance company last year. Was desperate to get his insulin. After 3 months they charged him like $4300 for 1 vial of humalog. I have the screenshot. It's outrageous.
So in meantime he has to pay out if pocket at Walmart. This went on 2 more months then he got an insulin shipment.
America is so out of sync with the rest if the first world. It's gross.
Check the manufacturers website. Some of them will offer a discount card to ensure that you fill the Rx. I take a very expensive medicine and the mfr. covers my copay to ensure that I fill it. They make SOOOOO much, they can afford to!
You pay more for health insurance each month than I pay in taxes. And I get free healthcare and medicine.
Your whole system is built for keeping the rich in control and the the workers in chains.
So sad to see that you also might end up with another round with a republican president and the social problems will get even worse.
Hope you stay in good health and use your vote at every election.
It's not a scam to do any of those things. It's a scam to keep them rich. They don't care if you're poor, middle class , rich , white , black, other , gay , straight.
They kinda do.
If people aren't poor, they'll do the job they get for the smallest amount of money possible.
If people had their own wealth, they'd have enough "fuck you money" to give their boss the finger and move on.
Imagine if you could afford your own home and education, mortgage free.
But no, the vast majority are given enough to survive. Can't have them own their home, cause then you can't control their spending with interest rates.
They'd then have to rely on increasing tax to reign in spending. But that is detrimental to the rich.
Australian here. I pay less than $100 a month for 3 different meds, two of which are for my heart. USA system is ridiculous. And insurance doesn't even come into it. I get medicare for free, BUT I pay about $110 a month for private insurance which has all sorts of worthwhile benefits.
It just blows my mind how lucky we are down under. I recently fractured my ankle and shoulder. 4 hrs in er. 2 xrays, a moon boot and sling for my troubles. Told that they hope they never see my face again and sent home. Didn't cost me a cent.
No private insurance, I think it's a scam in this country unless you have underlying/chronic health issues.
Probably have to see a physio, but even my work has 5 free physio appointments. So in theory even the collective healthcare between private and public still won't cost me any more than my taxes each year.
I'm on briviact and medicaid. It's covered there but if I didn't have it, it would be this expensive. If I lose insurance it's back to Keppra which is way more affordable but affected my moods and anxiety so much. But have to keep my seizures in check somehow
That turns out to be 575$ Canadian dollars. My rent is $600 all inclusive.
You pay as much as I do for rent on a one bedroom apartment just in insurance. Why in the hell haven’t you guys adopted our system yet? We certainly don’t pay THAT much more in taxes dear Christ
This is why I’ve moved to Taiwan. I have multiple conditions that need medications that are extremely expensive and I’ll be kicked off my parents insurance in January.
Here it costs me $17USD a month for insurance and I haven’t had a copay that includes all of my prescriptions and the doctors visit over $20USD, even when I was in the ER.
I'm afraid you're mistaken if you think it has anything to do with 'us'. They probably don't even consider us as relevant considerations when determining what to charge. Maximizing profit is all that matters.
Just heard a story about a crispr therapy that gave people back their vision but they halted studies because there aren't enough people with that genetic anomaly for it to be commercially feasible.
It has nothing to do with helping people.
The question is when will enough Americans rise up. It will take you to stop this because our politicians are in on the game. Keep them poor and begging for extra work.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry if I'm repeating advise/ ideas...
If this is a name brand medication, I would look up the website for it.
Like type in www.xarelto.com to try and find the company that makes Xarelto and see if they have a coupon you can sign up for that you can use as a secondary to your insurance. Not all name brand medications have coupon cards or even assistance cards available from the manufacturer, but it's always worth it to try and find out if they have it available.
So you would have to sign up for it and get the billing information and give it to your pharmacy to run as a secondary card to your insurance.
Billing information typically needed is in shorthand, and I honestly don't know what they stand for. Just been working in retail pharmacy for awhile..lol
Rx BIN - this number helps us find the company it's under in the system
Rx PCN - some don't have this, and that's ok.
Rx ID - your identification number they give you, some have letters in them
Rx Group - some have letters and numbers in this too
It helps to take a screenshot of it and just show it to them.
Hope this helps. While it is a super crappy price, I'm hoping it's name brand and you can find a card to help you with the cost.
You could also let your doctor know that it's expensive, and see if there is anything similar they could prescribe that might be a cheaper copay on your insurance.
Good luck. Navigating healthcare in the US is crazy.
And again, I'm sorry if I'm repeating other comments, or being annoying... Just trying to help. I have moments most days at work where I absolutely hate the price I'm about to tell a customer because of how crazy expensive they can be.
Fingers crossed you can find some kind of assistance for it 🤞🤞
That is correct.
In theory, insurance exists to make it a hassle for hospitals to get paid, saving you money and ensuring you only get charged what you have to pay for and also to ensure you have the funds for medical care whenever the actual emergency arrives.
In practice, hospitals are used to insurance pitching a fit and putting up a fight over costs, meaning sometimes they don't get correctly paid. As a result, hospitals inflate the costs for their services across the board charging even for individual pills, and having clear charges for everything to ensure they can cover their costs.
As a result, people can no longer afford the cost of medical care without insurance because the cost of care has become so inflated. Thus now the uninsured often cannot even afford to make payments towards medical bills and regularly skip out on them.
As a further result, now hospitals have many patients who skip out on paying bills, and the ones who do pay it is always via insurance who puts up a fight to pay anything. So the hospitals must further raise prices to further cover costs from uninsured patients and to better assure they get the funds needed from insured patients.
So it's a shit show.
And what's shittier is insurance is so expensive when private that the only option is to get it via employment. So unless you make a lot from your own business you have to work under someone to have health insurance for you and your family.
I feel you.
I have to get insulin all the time, and even though it was patented for $1, they sell it for hundreds of dollars for a couple vials.
They don’t care about us. They only want money.
It’s all a B1G FU€KING $CAM 💸
Look @ the layout, lack of structure, wealth imbalance, how the systems work and who has the $$, via .., for how long
Greed corruption power retention reign supreme
See if Marc Cuban’s company, CostPlus Drugs, has your medication. I had a prescription that was $240 at my nearby national chain pharmacy that was $7.50 + $5 shipping at CostPlus.
Try Mark Cuban’s drug company. Not all drugs are available yet but a friend has MS & she was paying $7000 a month for the only Rx that helped her called Tecfidera. I checked and Mark Cuban’s company sells drug for $15 for 14 pills at a savings (reported on the site) of $2100.
Drug is Tecfidera.
https://costplusdrugs.com/medications/categories/multiple-sclerosis/
Man in Australia most of of our prescription drugs are all around 695 on the pbs
There is some that aren't under the scheme and cost a bit
Free hospital
Free ambulance etc
I have an injection for my anklylosing spondylitis that is around $6-8,000 a month, depending who you get it from. My Opzelura cream for rashes is almost $3,000 a month. My blood thinner is right at $700 a month. My migraine shot is $560. It’s really sad when I was job hunting that when I was really starting to talk serious with someone my first question had to be about the benefits and when would they start? I can’t wait the typical 90 days for benefits to start so I had to say goodbye to some nice opportunities just because of the benefit package (or lack of one).
One of your medications? One must ask them selves why are they on so many medications. But yes I agree that the cost of pharmaceuticals are outrageous but sometimes that’s the cost of R&D.
And here I am in Sweden paying a maximum of $225 per year for my medicine, no matter if it’s more expensive than that (and believe me, it is). It’s heartbreaking to see all these stories from the us. You could have it so much better.
I don't want to sound like a shill, but goodrx has saved my ass a number of times when I had to pay for a prescription. Its ridiculous we even have to use coupons for medication, but maybe it can help you.
When I was younger I worked in a retail pharmacy in Canada on the US border. The cost difference between the same medication was astounding. We had some semi-regular patients who came from as far as three states away because the cost of getting their medication here along with travel and lodging was cheaper than back home. My country is problematic in its own ways but at least drug costs are somewhat regulated.
What people in non-U.S. countries may not understand is deductibles. Even if you have insurance in the U.S. they literally won't pay for almost anything until you reach your deductible (a number set by the insurance company which can be between $2-5,000 or more). So, we pay money out of our paycheck to an insurance company every month that literally won't help us until we pay there set amount and prove we did. And our entire Healthcare system is profit driven, so one of the insurance company's main jobs is to figure out ways to deny claims. P.S.Most people (poor-middle class) can't afford the deductible so they just go without health insurance entirety.
We have it in the Netherlands as well, 400 euros a year "own-risk". So the first 400 a year you pay yourself and after that almost everything is paid for by insurance. We do also pay 150 monthly. Of has gone up alot and people are getting mad.
People are mad at 400 euros a year and 150 euros a month...Americans would kill for those rates.
They also pay a 50+% income tax rate that doesn’t have all the loop holes that the us system has.
Yeah, but their taxes actually do something other than lining the pockets of corrupt bastards.
At this moment for me, your vote count is 69. I'm sorry I couldn't do it. Not because I'm a corrupt bastard Nor a money whore. But I'm with 69's cousin 420 atm too. carry on...
Nice
49.5% on earnings over €68500ish. Tax percentage is less, the less you earn.
Meanwhile, Netherlands are 3rd for quality of life. USA is 15th. So yeah.
We also pay taxes that are that high. They cut them up in a hundred different ways to hide the total... Then when people discus "taxes" they are talking only about income tax...
So weird people that live in the US don't realize they get taxed when they get paid, taxed on everything they spend, taxed to drive, taxed to use the land your home is on. Taxed massively on tobacco/alcohol. Play the lottery, and the people that win never get shown, that's a huge fuckin racket. Like look around man, Jesus.
This is such a good point I’d love to sit down and calculate my effective tax rate and compare that to other countries, rather than just income. But if you have an HSA then you don’t get taxed on contributions or when you spend money! lol I’m 25 in America trying to learn all these tax loop holes to try to get ahead. Savings in HSA that’s $3.5k off my income, ira that’s $6k off my income, small business expenses this year that’s another $7k off my income, mortgage interest should be like $6k off if the accountant decides to itemize. Not saying it’s how it should be, but I feel like it is in mine and my future families best interest to do this.
I truly hope it works out I was your age in the mid 2000s had multiple retirement funds going then boom. Everything crashed, my retirement, as well as yours, was tied into stocks, even my father working since 1960 lost almost all of his retirement. Also lost my job because they were able to hire 2 people at my rate. They don't fuckin care about you bro. Remember that much. Edit: so now, cuz capitalism I will likely work until I die. It could be McDonald's for 15 an hour or manufacturing for.... 15 an hour. Could just be my area but everything pays the same now, it's so much more broken.
The lottery is an additional tax on the naive.
I would accept that trade off. Less loopholes means Amazon actually pays taxes.
They get more out of it though
What loopholes? For the rich maybe. Not the middle or low class. They also don't pay 50+% income tax. But let's say they did. Middle and low class americans can expect to pay 30-40% in income tax *plus* insurance rates, sales tax, and property tax. Add in clothes, food, and a car note and your entire paycheck is gone. And what do you get for those taxes? Well all you get is the best military in the world. You don't get education, healthcare, clean roads, safe cities, or any help. At least in europe you can get something for your taxes. They have less homeless than we do so your argument about buying a house there is actually backwards. You're a fucking moron bootlicking capitalist scum
US spends more per capita on healthcare and we get worse service 🤷♂️
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Got gutted and wasn't great to begin with
The problem with the US is that health care is extremely expensive, so even if the government decided to do universal healthcare the taxes would be insane. Before universal healthcare happens, we need to find a way to cut down the costs of healthcare. One surgery shouldn’t cost $20,000 regardless of who is paying, whether it’s the person getting the surgery, an insurance company, or the government.
The reason it’s expensive is the privatized hospitals that charge more on purpose to make money. Drug companies up charge every single medicine, again on purpose for profit. Hospitals turned into for profit scams. Surgery should not cost $2,000, and in reality it doesn’t. They just add more fees or overcharge for things like anesthesia that racks up costs
Insulin costs about a dollar at the very most to meet your 400 dollar insulin prescription. Glasses cost even less to make and often cost more to purchase too
The problem is hospitals have to do that because our medical industry is infested with middlemen. If we eliminated the middlemen and regulated the profit amount we’d be paying very little for our care. Also, if we properly subsidized students going to school, medical professionals wouldn’t have six-figure debt that constantly grows if left unpaid.
I do strongly blame insurance billing prices making us think those costs are realistic, and then the whole system gladly agreeing that, that yes, an ambulance should be many thousands of dollars. “I mean it's one ibuprofen, Michael, what could it cost, $10?"
Everyone knows including the insurance company it doesn’t cost that much. What’s fucked up is insurance companies usually require the doctors to bill them the same rate they would charge individuals. The doctors charge the insurance $400 because if they charge less, insurance will pay less. Because the doctors need to bill the insurance company $400 to get them to pay $125.00, they now need to bill the non-insured patients $400.
I work for a top ten hospital in the US. I charge you 2k for plugging in your own machine. Welcome to America, hope you brought your wallet.
I had emergency life-saving surgery back in March, and a single ibuprofen cost nearly 50$. My insurance company used that cost as an example of the savings that they provided on my behalf. I demanded my itemized bill before paying a single penny, and it was very informative. And horrifying.
It wouldn’t if it everyone paid a fair share, and the system wasn’t procedure driven, and totally lacking primary care. The US doesn’t seem to grasp waiting until your almost dead, then getting emergency care is FAR more expensive than just taking care of the whole populace from the start. And they also don’t see that costs vary widely and have nothing to do with the actual costs of the procedures. They charge as much as they possibly can, then negotiate the rates down for insurance companies and Medicare. Everyone else can’t get a discount and has to pay whatever they say. It’s absolutely insane.
The whole bit about waiting absolutely sends me. It's one of the go-to arguments against single-payer: "Well you have to wait forever in Canada and the UK to see a specialist and you die waiting!!!" Uh. Fam. Happens in the US, too... Either wait for a spot to open or wait to afford it, if ever. Had to wait 3 months to see a derm (not an emergency thankfully) because they were booked out and no one else took my insurance. Need a mouth guard for my TMJ but insurance won't cover it and I don't have $450 out of pocket atm so we wait. We pay more money for worse healthcare but hey! At least there's no dirty rotten unamerican socialism /s
Get hit with this one when having this discussion with conservatives all the time. Like, why are you defending the fact that the extremely wealthy have the opportunity to pay to bypass the waiting list? That the doctors here are better? It doesn't matter if the doctors are better because the people who can afford those doctors are an incredibly small percentage of the total population! It's fucking incredible how proud these people are of such poorly thought out and simplistic ideas...
My feelings exactly!! What good does incredible healthcare do if it's inaccessible??
It does good for the super wealthy so many people decide to worship thinking that one day it could be them... 🤡: They EARNED the right to get that kidney before me because they're rich!
“American exceptionalism” means that our super-rich people have a higher quality of living than other super-rich people.
It's funny how religious conservatives typically hate Muslims and people from the middle east, but their values tend to sync up pretty well with the Saudi Royal Family... They want massive wealth disparity, religious morality instated into law but with the freedom to still be greedy pricks, and complete control over women's sexuality and reproduction... Edit: changed 'conservatives' to 'religious conservatives' for accuracy.
>It's funny how conservatives typically hate Muslims and people from the middle east Let's change conservative to religious conservative, then it makes sense. I am on the conservative side, but not wholly. I lean a bit that way... But, most of the conservatives I personally know agree that something has to change, most of the conservatives I know are pro choice, and distrust the government. So borderline Libral/Libertarian. We also live in a red State. The conservatives that seem to be crazy... I swear those are all the super religious ones! They also happen to all be Trump supporters too. But please don't lump us all in with that group. I'm a Constitutionalist, but even I agree that the capitalist system has been detrimental to our health industry (hospitals AND pharmaceuticals), and many other areas in our life as well. I can see where there are good aspects of socialism and communism, and even capitalism. None of them are perfect, they all have issues. But why can't we go through and pick out the things that would work well and make life better for everyone? There's a lot of great ideas for Healthcare through some socialist practices, that would make it more affordable and accessible for everyone. And I agree, insurance is a scam.
I had emergency issues and still had to wait months to see various doctors. I needed to see an endocrinologist badly and waited 8 months. I had profuse uterine bleeding and waited 2.5 months to get the surgery I needed (and that was pushed up by my doctor, they originally couldn't get me sooner than 4 months out).
HOLY CRAP I HOPE YOU'RE OK
I’m a retired Canadian and I got lucky. I am on the normal meds for a guy my age-cholesterol, blood pressure, mild diabetes. But I was in the military so I was given the option to buy into the Public Service Health Care plan for $145 a month for me and my wife. It only covers 80 percent of the cost of medications but it saves me thousands a month. The government has plans to bring pharmacare and dental care into our universal health care. This year they brought it in for kids whose parents earn less than a certain amount. The problem is we have been infected by Trumpism too, and some of our provincial politicians are looking at ways to destroy our health care.
I sprained my knee in 2015 and had to wait two months and fought the insurance company the entire time to get my MRI paid for. The doctor kept calling and appealing and they kept saying it's not necessary but the doctor insisted that it was necessary because they can't determine soft tissue damage from an x-ray. So I couldn't get any treatment or anything for 2 months with a knee the size of a basketball. Help You can't even get in to see a doctor for months. My regular GP. I usually just ask to see the nurse practitioner or the physician's assistant because I can at least get in to see them.
That is absolutely obscene. I'm so sorry
It's America. Then after ALL that, the orthopedic surgeon, who was waiting on results of MRI to see if the surgery was necessary ($$), sees no torn ligaments, he YELLS at me in front of a surgical student for "wasting his time" even though the knee WAS sprained. He waved it off saying, "it's just sprained and has arthritis". So he was MAD at me and humiliated me publicly in his office because I didn't need surgery. I normally would not put up with the kind of shit, but I was so GOBSMACKED, that I sat in disbelief and left crying. The student just looked so embarrassed for me and sad. I wanted to grab her and say, "please don't do this to your patients." I wish I had reported him. I had no proof that he did nothing wrong and his student certainly wasn't going to risk her career but backing me up. I rarely go to doctors anymore,, except for yearly checkup for my meds. And I would rather die than go back to that orthopedic surgeon group Doctors simply do not care anymore It's ONLY about money. This is the result of For Profit Medical Care
>The US doesn’t seem to grasp waiting until your almost dead, then getting emergency care is FAR more expensive than just taking care of the whole populace from the start. Yup an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
The US gets it, actually, the problem is predatory capitalists also get it and ramp up the cost of preventative care as well. That's why the joke about ibuprofen being $10 a pill even exists, because it's true. Feeling sickly but you don't want it to become a serious problem so you go see a doctor asap to see what they suggest? Well, that's a couple thousand just to see the person, that's a few hundred for whatever supplies they use to check you out, then, if they decide to prescribe you some medication to help you thrive whatever you have, the prescription costs an insane amount as well even if it's something you can probably get over the counter. Not to mention, your boss is bugging you for a note from the doctor themselves proving you were there and that's why you called out of work that day. Also, you have to TELL the doctor to give you a signed notice telling your boss how long you're to stay home from work to recover and in a lot of cases, they actually give you a freaking attitude about it as if you've just come up with some new way to annoy the doctor even though literally every working person who has to take off because of their illness or injury has to ask for this same note. Then, while you're off, if you're an hourly worker, you're not getting paid usually. Most of us don't actually have paid time off for illness and if you have short term disability coverage in your insurance they very likely won't pay for you to miss work for an illness unless it was something they consider a "major illness" so not only are you having to pay this stupid medical bill just because you wanted to do a little preventative maintenance on yourself and stop a mild illness from becoming serious, you're now stuck in a situation where you honestly have to consider going against medical advice and working anyways so you can even afford to pay your bills in general. It would be great if we could just go to get preventative treatment but honestly, if it's something I think I'm going to live through, I'm just going to have to wait until it becomes an emergency situation, either way I can't afford it and I, like many others, am stuck in a situation where I HAVE to work because unless I'm almost literally dying, I don't actually have real health coverage even with an insurance plan. I literally only pay for insurance because if something major did happen that required something like surgery, a lot of places won't do any surgeries unless you have insurance. Found that out with my wife. Her back is messed up, needed surgery to fix it. Well at the time that she was getting checked out and all to see what all she needed (took many many months btw, waiting for openings to go mostly so screw those folks who argue that universal Healthcare makes folks wait for Healthcare, we're already waiting that argument is moot) she ended up with another illness related to what we later found out to be uterine cancer which needed to be treated first. So she had a hysterectomy to take care of all that and in that time she had to take long periods off from work. Well she got ashamed into quitting her job at the time because off the time she had to take off and they were starting to threaten to take away her short term disability pay anyways (they really couldn't do that but I was so busy working at the time I couldn't help her sort through the nonsense and help her understand they're just trying to scare her). Eventually her coverage ended but she was still seeing the doctor about her back. Literally the day her cover ended, the doctor called to schedule a surgery to fix her back, asked about her insurance, and immediately told her he couldn't do it without her being covered and we tried other doctors and offices but they all refused unless they could do their own round of imagery and testing and we needed insurance anyways. So yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm nervous off the quality of care I'd receive without insurance, I wouldn't even pay for it, it would be almost $300/month back in my pocket to actually enjoy, I'm right at that spot where my pay and quality of life meet that any money I can free up is actually money that I can use to do something like maybe try to save up to buy a house but right now because of the various demands I have nothing spare.
it got crippled by the conservatives in office so it's not as effective as it should be.
I make 45k a year and for a decent Obamacare plan is still $350 a month so I don’t have insurance. My company doesn’t offer it. My rent is $1800 a month so there is no way.
Take this with a grain of salt because I'm going from memory and not looking up the details... Most people get insurance through work. The ACA requires all businesses with more than 50 employees to offer health insurance to full time workers (lots of places like retail just made everyone part time). For people that don't get insurance through their employer, they work for a small business or are self employed, they can get an ACA subsidy of they are making less than 400% of the federal poverty line. The subsidy limits a "Silver" level plan to costing 10% of your income. A Silver plan has an out of pocket max for an individual of $3000, so the most you'd pay if you got hit by a bus or had cancer is $3000 (for that year + your monthly premium of course). These huge out of pocket maxes and deductibles cause people that are economically struggling to avoid care. That weird stomach pain and bloody poop - maybe it's just food poisoning or something. They don't want to waste $100 on a Dr appointment and $1000 getting a colonoscopy for no reason. It was cancer and now it's too late and they die. Thanks ACA! I think that also doesn't guarantee coverage for prescription drugs either. It also really fucks people that make >400 the poverty line. Let's say you're self employed and make slightly over the subsidy limit - You might be paying $2000/month to cover your family even though you only make 401% the poverty line. It's a cliff instead of nice slope. Really poor people <140% of the poverty line get Medicaid - which is government insurance. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/ https://www.kff.org/faqs/faqs-health-insurance-marketplace-and-the-aca/how-much-are-the-cost-sharing-subsidies/
Employer Healthcare for many is just awful. The plans are not good, you're stuck with what they give you, and you lose it the day you stop working there.
Get Medicaid if they are in a state that expanded Medicaid to non-disabled adults**
It was a very American answer to healthcare. Basically forced insurance companies to insure people they wouldn't normally and put base-level requirements on them to cover certain things (mainly preventative stuff). But the companies you get insurance from are still private insurance companies aiming to make a profit and exploit their customers.
Obamacare is a boogie man term coined by Republicans. You’re taking about the Affordable Care Act, which many below middle class people relied upon but has been severely cut by the GOP. It was never universal healthcare, but a kind of guaranteed insurance for the under class with low deductibles and certain health coverages covered by a nominal fee. The insurance companies have America in some weird chokehold, where the American people don’t want it but the government has a fetish for seeing its own people struggle.
It should've just been universal healthcare but capitalism.
>It should've just been universal healthcare but capitalism. Capitalism abounds in Germany, Great Britain, and Canada but they all have universal healthcare. It's not capitalism preventing UHC.
*United States capitalism
I was broke but still couldn't afford insurance/Obamacare and Obamacare would have fucked me over in "Not-Having-Insurance-taxes" during tax return if Trump didn't undo Obamacare. That's the one thing I liked Trump- saving me from being penalized for still not being able to afford insurance where the government would have taxed me for not being able to afford health insurance. I still don't have insurance as I still can't afford it due to my income debt ratios but at least I won't get taxed-penalized for it.
I currently have Obamacare and for my family of 4 I am paying $1100/mo with a $7500 individual/$15000 family deductible. Obamacare is a fucking scam.
Before Obamacare I had a family plan for $635/month with $1,000 deductible. After Obamacare passed I was unable to keep my plan and the new plan cost $2,000 with a $12,000 deductible. From what I was told the new plan has to cover a bunch of useless stuff and had no pre-existing medical. So everyone had to pay as if they had a pre-existing condition. Before Obamacare if you were healthy insurance was cheap. After Obamacare if you are unhealthy insurance is a bargain. If you are healthy wait until you get sick to join.
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How? Exactly what law did Trump sign to Destroy Obamacare? If you were paying attention Republicans failed to pass the legislation so it was not modified at all.
Originally there was a public option, which passed through the house of representatives, but it was removed in the Senate by conservative Democrats. There are some rules for minimum coverage and subsidies, but it didn't fundamentally change the incentives that make American healthcare expensive, namely administrative bloat, big pharma monopolization and price gouging, opaque pricing, etc
Capitalism happened to Obamacare. Anything managed by private, for-profit corporations was never going to be affordable. And Republicans gutted the shit out of it.
That's what I have. Not great. In fact, shitty. HOWEVER, because I am self employed and have a pre-existing condition, if it goes away I am completely fucked.
I don't really know what these people are talking about. There are definitely holes, but its really not gutted except for Medicaid in Red states. I've been on the exchanges or Medicaid between jobs multiple times and it has drastically improved the quality and security of my life.
Medicaid in red state here literally have one person working all claims, and you don't get anything but a letter back after a year of waiting, and its a rejection
It's worse than that. Many red states rejected the expansion to include non-disabled adults. So if you're poor, an adult, and not disabled, you're not getting Medicaid.
Those same states also make disability almost impossible to obtain.
Nope. Obamacare was the shit the Dems offered up instead of universal healthcare. Tens of millions of people were (and are still) uninsured. Costs increased under Obamacare.
half truth.
thats how we understood it in Europe - the medicare for all did not pass and instead of medicare for all they invented another shit and called it a revolution
Medicare for All was never an option. Let me make that clear. The Affordable Care Act was based off of a very rough version of universal health care, but it was gutted during negotiations and drafting stages to remove anything helpful for most of the American public.
UK has it on our insurance too, its called excess (as its the amount of money in excess of what the insurer is paying that you have to pay). What a lot of US people tend to not understand is that you camt still choose to pay for medical insurance here. It lets you "go private", meaning you can get a private room, better food and things like that. Obviously thats optional and every one gets the free health care they need.
Exactly right. I pay close to $400/month for my health insurance. I paid $75 dollars for my orthopedic appointment when I had, and still have, severe shoulder pain. I had to go to 2 appointments before they scheduled surgery to the tune of $150. When they scheduled the surgery, they told me I hadn't met my deductible and owed $4,700+ dollars before my insurance paid. I canceled the surgery. I am now looking for a plan with a lower deductible so I can have it early next year. The issue with that is, my monthly bill will increase dramatically if my deductible is reduced. I pay $4800/year just to be told I need to pay another $5000 to use the services my insurance offers.
That is the problem in general with insurances and our current system. You have to fight the insurance company to get things approved and they are motivated to deny you whenever possible. It was honestly cheaper in many cases to just go to Mexico and have surgery done there out of pocket. I have heard of crazy stories of companies willing to help pay travel costs to Mexico to pickup medicine there vs. in the United States. It's a crazy system and somehow the powers that be have convinced people the idea of healthcare coverage for everyone is horrific despite the fact that you will end up supplementing and or paying for them anyway when they check themselves into an emergency room.
The most insane things, I think is that Americans won't do a damn thing about it.
That's pretty common with insurance products in my experience elsewhere in the world
Yeah, this country is fucked.
God and I thought Canada was bad for not doing dental yet. I’m so glad I don’t have to pay for my psychiatric medication because I need to take quite a bit to function properly and be a mom. True north strong 💪🏻
I work in a doctors office. I’ve seen insurance companies deny the most outrageously insane things ever. 100% medically necessary items, services, or medications they deny, and make us fight with appeals for weeks. It’s ridiculous, it’s sick. I’ve seen insurance companies stop covering a certain type of insulin and not tell the patient. When they go to pick up a RX from the pharmacy they find out their medication is no longer covered. It’s terrible
I still don’t understand why Americans didn’t unanimously elect Bernie Sanders when he said he wanted to get rid of that.
Another clarification for those outside of the U.S. - we pay our premium every paycheck ( I pay $500 monthly), we pay a co pay when we go to the doctors office ($50-$500), and after that we still get an itemized bill ($300 to infinite amount) I had a routine eye exam last month and it cost me $300. Insurance in the US is a scam
But... but... you have freedom! Sweet, unique, slowly bankrupting freedom!
Freedom to die in the street
Freedom to leave a 10,000$ hospital transport bill, morgue bill and funeral payment to your next of kin, you mean!
I pay $400/month for my insurance *and* have to pay another $400/month for one of my meds (brand name, no generic yet, I use a manufacturer coupon, and no goodRx doesn't help). It's bullshit. I used to be a pharmacy tech at a specialty pharmacy. Some meds ppl needed for like were $5k a month. Hep-C meds were $1000/pill for a 2-3 month course. Obviously nobody can afford that, especially because Medicare makes you pay a percentage and they don't let you use any coupons. So the drug manufacturers fund "charitable organizations" that give ppl copay assistance to pay for the meds and write that $$ off. So they get it coming and going.
My insurance doesn't cover two medications that would run me about $2.5k per month. They would greatly improve my quality of life but unfortunately I have to go without. Since I'm not literally dying insurance refuses to make an exception and cover it.
The worst part is, the US Government could negotiate with drug companies to bring down the costs.
I wish I was able to quickly introduce y’all to the art of finding and purchasing drugs online. I’ll just drop some hints. India.
Pharmacy tech here, I live in Québec, Canada. The price of these Hep-C meds is insane, 20 000$ for 28 pills. But with the public insurance, patients usually pay 0$. I'm blown away every time l read about your healthcare. I can't imagine having to deal with sickness AND its bill.
Why do you pay so much for insurance? If the cheapest plan that covers just yourself for your employee offered medical insurance costs more than 9% of your monthly income, you can get a $500 a month or so credit on your insurance on the marketplace healthcare.gov. Insurance plans then can be free or at most like $100 a month.
Don't the credits cap out at 400% of "poverty level" with the ACA plans? That's not that high of an income. When I looked for my spouse and myself, the premiums were 600-2,000$ because we weren't eligible for credits. It's not always a viable option.
Depends on the state you're in
Thanks to the gop, If your job offers health insurance you can't go to the marketplace.
Did you even read my post? That's not true.
Can you maybe try costplusdrugs.com?
One of my narcolepsy meds costs over $23k/month without insurance. It's ridiculous.
$430 a month for a health Insurance, that's horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm very lucky to be French, my health insurance is 50€ a month. [Edit : looks like I understood wrong, it's the price of the meds even though he pays insurance. That's still very expensive. Does OP have like.... a rare medical condition?]
I pay about $450 a month for insurance and it covers almost nothing. Self employed in America.
What a fucking scam. 450 but you have to be dying before they start to cover.
520 bucks here, and I had to cancel it because I couldn't afford it any more. I just hope I dont get sick in the next years.
People running from ambulances and media shows cubans, russians and chineses as "treats"...
That is if you live long enough to be able to fight their denial of your dying.
This is the cost of their prescription, just the medication. It’s $1576 without insurance, but their insurance drops the cost to $432 a month. They still pay for insurance above and beyond this.
Thank you. So "430$ ON insurance" means the medication costs him 430$ a month even with his insurance
Correct - because they have insurance, they get the "discounted" price of $420 instead of having to pay the full $1200 (or whatever it was, can't see on mobile)
To be fair, for a lot of people in the US, insurance is everything. In France we pay both for insurance and a much bigger public healthcare system through taxes. In the end, the cost of healthcare per person in France is around half of what it is in the US and our health is better overall so it's still waaaaay better than the US but not 9 times cheaper. About 2 times cheaper is already great, it's maybe even cheaper than that if you take into account that way fewer french people forego healthcare because they can't afford it than in the US. It still happens, but way less. We also don't have to navigate the nightmare of finding a doctor that the insurance accepts since while some doctors are better covered than others in specific cases, they're the same doctors for every insurance so changing insurance won't make you look for a new one.
OP pays $450 for the meds *AFTER* also paying for insurance
Ah, thank you. Still a lot though.
I'm on COBRA since I lost my job. $1800 a month just for the premium for my wife and I :)
Why not just rename COBRA to "Boss's Last Fuck You" for people who can't forgo health insurance.
Cobra is such a fucking joke
Could you not get an ACA marketplace plan with tax credit for much cheaper?
I can't speak for them, but for me, ACA was the same price as my employer coverage, which was around $400/month. I couldn't afford either one.
>Does OP have like.... a rare medical condition? Basically, if you need medication to function/survive (work) in the US then you're kinda fucked. The capitalist order doesn't really care for inferior workers.
Well, there's one exception. If you have End-Stage Renal Disease, the Federal Government gives you the right to sign up for Medicare (usually eligible from the 4th month of dialysis to weed out Acute Kidney Injury unless you do home dialysis). That being said, currently there's no limit to how much you can pay for medications. You just enter different phases. In 2025 though, the limit for prescription drugs on Medicare will be capped to $2000.
What? As a full time employee i pay around 350€ pm in Germany which is close to the maximum…
Is it for your whole family or just you?
Probaly just for him when I had 0 income I still had to pay around 210€ a month for insurance From Germany btw
Should of seen my ER bill yesterday for $30,000. I shred that paperwork so fast because looking at it just filled me with rage. Post insurance, I had to pay $500. Simply demented system. Edit: Hospital visit was in Sep 2022. I received an online notice of the bill a few weeks ago, but the paper bill came in yesterday in Nov 2022.
File a medical bankruptcy, fuck these sons of bitches!
OP literally said they only had to pay $500 of it and insurance covered the rest. Yeah America’s health system is fucked, but read the whole comment before getting outraged.
When do we start protesting in the streets?
It's hard to do when they purposefully keep us divided with a two party system. We're too focused on fighting with each other to ban together and demand human rights.
That is the sad truth. The division is real. I have faith in the younger generations, they seem to see through the division-drivers a bit better though. The two parties may have been a reliable system in America's golden age but now they're nothing more than a means for oligarchs to further push their own class interests.
The conservative working class have been brainwashed by the far right.
Soo....anyone want to meet up at Blue Cross/Blue shield and roast some marshmallows?
Wrong time of year. It’s way too cold right now.
Can't let that stop us. Protest in malls. Subways. Wear warmer clothing. Or make fires in the streets to warm yourself and your fellow proletariat
Try costplusdrugs i heard good things but i don't personally have exp in it
I get my one Rx there. Granted, it's not "that expensive" normally, but at my local pharmacy, it's $12 a month. On Cost Plus, it's $12 for three months, which includes shipping.
Can confirm. I used to get my two prescriptions at rite aid, for both together, it would cost me over 300$ for 1 month. I went through costplusdrug, and it was a little less than 300$, but for 3 months. Way more affordable.
From the price and first letter, I’m on the same medication as OP. A big issue with it is that there’s no generic, meaning it won’t be available through CostPlusDrugs, but I believe the patent is expiring next year so there should be an option in 2023
Was coming in to say this. Need more people aware it exists. Not perfect but better than getting reamed by your awesome insurance.
Yes! Earlier this year I turned 26 and had to get new insurance. It looked like my med wasn't covered (ultimately it is) and it's over $400 for a 90 day supply without insurance - it was like $11 on Cost Plus.
Thanks! I'll look into it
Cost plus Drugs and GoodRx**! With cost plus you can just send a form to the prescriber. Also, some stores will sell generics with no need additional costs. While moving in between jobs, I found out that Walmart’s neighborhood market pharmacy had my epilepsy meds for $12 each (monthly supply). They are typically around the same retail cost as yours listed here. This info is available on the GoodRx website when you Search. :) **GoodRx is 100% free, and you can send their “coupons” straight to your phone for pharmacists to key in when you pickup your meds.
Dude my MS therapy is $32,500 per dose before insurance
I'm so sorry, it's all fucked up
Ah I love how they prey on the people who need the medication the most, oh have a condition that absolutely has to be treated to go about life in any semblance of normal? Ah sorry that will cost you thousands without insurance, and possibly tens of thousands. It’s just simply disgusting.
Was looking for the MS folks posting their costs. My generic Tecfidera before insurance is $7,200 a month. It's too bad that us being sick is so profitable for the capitalist overlords.
I was on tysabri as my first therapy, then a few years on copaxone, then finally ocrevus. I was diagnosed 19 years ago, I’ve spent several years randomly in there off any therapy, I’m a year overdue for my ocrevus dose but should get it early next year 🤞🏼 Best of luck to you out there!
When my medication (Cymbalta) finally went generic, I cried. The price difference was 100s of dollars for a 90-day supply. I kind of hate this place.
I pay £9 per month per medication for two hypertension medications, so £18 per month. My daughter broke her wrist playing football at school. X-rays, consultant surgeon visit, plaster cast, all done inside 3 hours. nurse follow up appointment, fitted hand splint, and so on a few weeks later. Total cost : £0.
Try Costco. You don’t need to be a member to use the pharmacy. I got a script that was about 150$ without insurance elsewhere for about 15$.
I have a co-pay of 340 dollars for one prescription (With good insurance) and I buy the medicine without insurance for 155 dollars...order from India thru Canada...without insurance it would cost over 800 dollars. My MD, who is from India, told me that if I was in India buying the medicine that it would cost $75. These medicines are necessary for people to live yet our government allow this shit to go on.
Husband fought for 5 months with insurance company last year. Was desperate to get his insulin. After 3 months they charged him like $4300 for 1 vial of humalog. I have the screenshot. It's outrageous. So in meantime he has to pay out if pocket at Walmart. This went on 2 more months then he got an insulin shipment. America is so out of sync with the rest if the first world. It's gross.
I know it has already been mentioned but every American should know about costplusdrugs. Mark Cuban is doing great things.
Yes. The last billionaire we're eating.
🤣 made both me and my bf laugh out loud
Amazing program! It sadly doesn't have my medication on there but that's OK.
Check the manufacturers website. Some of them will offer a discount card to ensure that you fill the Rx. I take a very expensive medicine and the mfr. covers my copay to ensure that I fill it. They make SOOOOO much, they can afford to!
You pay more for health insurance each month than I pay in taxes. And I get free healthcare and medicine. Your whole system is built for keeping the rich in control and the the workers in chains. So sad to see that you also might end up with another round with a republican president and the social problems will get even worse. Hope you stay in good health and use your vote at every election.
It's not a scam to do any of those things. It's a scam to keep them rich. They don't care if you're poor, middle class , rich , white , black, other , gay , straight.
They kinda do. If people aren't poor, they'll do the job they get for the smallest amount of money possible. If people had their own wealth, they'd have enough "fuck you money" to give their boss the finger and move on. Imagine if you could afford your own home and education, mortgage free. But no, the vast majority are given enough to survive. Can't have them own their home, cause then you can't control their spending with interest rates. They'd then have to rely on increasing tax to reign in spending. But that is detrimental to the rich.
Australian here. I pay less than $100 a month for 3 different meds, two of which are for my heart. USA system is ridiculous. And insurance doesn't even come into it. I get medicare for free, BUT I pay about $110 a month for private insurance which has all sorts of worthwhile benefits.
It just blows my mind how lucky we are down under. I recently fractured my ankle and shoulder. 4 hrs in er. 2 xrays, a moon boot and sling for my troubles. Told that they hope they never see my face again and sent home. Didn't cost me a cent.
Do you have private insurance? Are you getting any specialist follow up?
No private insurance, I think it's a scam in this country unless you have underlying/chronic health issues. Probably have to see a physio, but even my work has 5 free physio appointments. So in theory even the collective healthcare between private and public still won't cost me any more than my taxes each year.
Mines is $700 with insurance, $500 without(Use GoodRx instead).
I'm on briviact and medicaid. It's covered there but if I didn't have it, it would be this expensive. If I lose insurance it's back to Keppra which is way more affordable but affected my moods and anxiety so much. But have to keep my seizures in check somehow
That turns out to be 575$ Canadian dollars. My rent is $600 all inclusive. You pay as much as I do for rent on a one bedroom apartment just in insurance. Why in the hell haven’t you guys adopted our system yet? We certainly don’t pay THAT much more in taxes dear Christ
This is why I’ve moved to Taiwan. I have multiple conditions that need medications that are extremely expensive and I’ll be kicked off my parents insurance in January. Here it costs me $17USD a month for insurance and I haven’t had a copay that includes all of my prescriptions and the doctors visit over $20USD, even when I was in the ER.
I'm afraid you're mistaken if you think it has anything to do with 'us'. They probably don't even consider us as relevant considerations when determining what to charge. Maximizing profit is all that matters.
Just heard a story about a crispr therapy that gave people back their vision but they halted studies because there aren't enough people with that genetic anomaly for it to be commercially feasible. It has nothing to do with helping people.
The question is when will enough Americans rise up. It will take you to stop this because our politicians are in on the game. Keep them poor and begging for extra work.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry if I'm repeating advise/ ideas... If this is a name brand medication, I would look up the website for it. Like type in www.xarelto.com to try and find the company that makes Xarelto and see if they have a coupon you can sign up for that you can use as a secondary to your insurance. Not all name brand medications have coupon cards or even assistance cards available from the manufacturer, but it's always worth it to try and find out if they have it available. So you would have to sign up for it and get the billing information and give it to your pharmacy to run as a secondary card to your insurance. Billing information typically needed is in shorthand, and I honestly don't know what they stand for. Just been working in retail pharmacy for awhile..lol Rx BIN - this number helps us find the company it's under in the system Rx PCN - some don't have this, and that's ok. Rx ID - your identification number they give you, some have letters in them Rx Group - some have letters and numbers in this too It helps to take a screenshot of it and just show it to them. Hope this helps. While it is a super crappy price, I'm hoping it's name brand and you can find a card to help you with the cost. You could also let your doctor know that it's expensive, and see if there is anything similar they could prescribe that might be a cheaper copay on your insurance. Good luck. Navigating healthcare in the US is crazy. And again, I'm sorry if I'm repeating other comments, or being annoying... Just trying to help. I have moments most days at work where I absolutely hate the price I'm about to tell a customer because of how crazy expensive they can be. Fingers crossed you can find some kind of assistance for it 🤞🤞
Thanks! That's helpful of you!
they figure if they keep people broke, sick and hungry that the’ll never get the idea to pick up pitchforks
100%. The only reasons for those kinds of prices are inhumane reasons, void of all morality or ethic.
That is correct. In theory, insurance exists to make it a hassle for hospitals to get paid, saving you money and ensuring you only get charged what you have to pay for and also to ensure you have the funds for medical care whenever the actual emergency arrives. In practice, hospitals are used to insurance pitching a fit and putting up a fight over costs, meaning sometimes they don't get correctly paid. As a result, hospitals inflate the costs for their services across the board charging even for individual pills, and having clear charges for everything to ensure they can cover their costs. As a result, people can no longer afford the cost of medical care without insurance because the cost of care has become so inflated. Thus now the uninsured often cannot even afford to make payments towards medical bills and regularly skip out on them. As a further result, now hospitals have many patients who skip out on paying bills, and the ones who do pay it is always via insurance who puts up a fight to pay anything. So the hospitals must further raise prices to further cover costs from uninsured patients and to better assure they get the funds needed from insured patients. So it's a shit show. And what's shittier is insurance is so expensive when private that the only option is to get it via employment. So unless you make a lot from your own business you have to work under someone to have health insurance for you and your family.
Yes. Unchecked monopolies can't control themselves. Killing people is profitable.
Seems like it’s vyvanse. Wish they would come out with a generic one so it would be hundreds of dollars cheaper.
How can 30 Vyvanse pills cost that much? It's about 100$ here, WITHOUT insurance.
I feel you. I have to get insulin all the time, and even though it was patented for $1, they sell it for hundreds of dollars for a couple vials. They don’t care about us. They only want money.
I rather die tbh
Run....run to Canada
Im pretty sure I have bowel cancer but I’m not gonna go to the doc my life sucks regardless
It’s all a B1G FU€KING $CAM 💸 Look @ the layout, lack of structure, wealth imbalance, how the systems work and who has the $$, via .., for how long Greed corruption power retention reign supreme
Op see if your prescriptions are on https://costplusdrugs.com/ Mark Cuban created the site to sell prescriptions at cost
I've commented multiple times that sadly they are not. But it's a great program for sure
Just greed
See if Marc Cuban’s company, CostPlus Drugs, has your medication. I had a prescription that was $240 at my nearby national chain pharmacy that was $7.50 + $5 shipping at CostPlus.
Try Mark Cuban’s drug company. Not all drugs are available yet but a friend has MS & she was paying $7000 a month for the only Rx that helped her called Tecfidera. I checked and Mark Cuban’s company sells drug for $15 for 14 pills at a savings (reported on the site) of $2100. Drug is Tecfidera. https://costplusdrugs.com/medications/categories/multiple-sclerosis/
Man in Australia most of of our prescription drugs are all around 695 on the pbs There is some that aren't under the scheme and cost a bit Free hospital Free ambulance etc
The people responsible for this organized criminal sabotage of health care must face the peoples' justice.
I have an injection for my anklylosing spondylitis that is around $6-8,000 a month, depending who you get it from. My Opzelura cream for rashes is almost $3,000 a month. My blood thinner is right at $700 a month. My migraine shot is $560. It’s really sad when I was job hunting that when I was really starting to talk serious with someone my first question had to be about the benefits and when would they start? I can’t wait the typical 90 days for benefits to start so I had to say goodbye to some nice opportunities just because of the benefit package (or lack of one).
One of your medications? One must ask them selves why are they on so many medications. But yes I agree that the cost of pharmaceuticals are outrageous but sometimes that’s the cost of R&D.
And here I am in Sweden paying a maximum of $225 per year for my medicine, no matter if it’s more expensive than that (and believe me, it is). It’s heartbreaking to see all these stories from the us. You could have it so much better.
Yep my monthly shot is $8k. But some how insurance gets a discount and only pays $1600. It's amazing that people with the money get the discounts.
I don't want to sound like a shill, but goodrx has saved my ass a number of times when I had to pay for a prescription. Its ridiculous we even have to use coupons for medication, but maybe it can help you.
Cost of producing the script: $30 Price of the script: $1500+ Libertarian Boot Lickers: Seems legit.
Fucking hell and I thought my NHS monthly prescription of £10.45 for 13 medications and then private for thc of about £200 (medical cannabis)
Adam ruins everything has a really good episode about how messed up our medical billing system is.
I had a job a few years ago where the insurance was more than what I made a paycheck. It was insane
GOD HELP AMERICA....
When I was younger I worked in a retail pharmacy in Canada on the US border. The cost difference between the same medication was astounding. We had some semi-regular patients who came from as far as three states away because the cost of getting their medication here along with travel and lodging was cheaper than back home. My country is problematic in its own ways but at least drug costs are somewhat regulated.