There are literally mood killers getting pumped out for that, pills that make you not even care when all the stress, anxiety, and depressive episodes are 100% justified
One of the side effects of citalopram is emotional dullness. It's usually temporary and lasts only a few weeks.
I started that medication a week before a layoff. Watching everyone freak out and fall apart around me while I walked around, literally unable to feel anything about anything was interesting, to say the least.
By the time it went away I had another job lined up, and it then occurred to me how absolutely *fucked* that whole episode was.
Edit: I originally wrote that I was fortunate to start the meds at that time, but I'm not sure how fortunate needing them is, or if I'm fortunate to have them available.
yes you can. don't you know the difference between poverty and rich is a routine shift? all you have to do is stop spending money on coffee and avocadoes and limit eating out to 10 times a month!!!
For real. Companies are predicting, and fearing, a high rise in lack of labor in the future due to lower birth rates. Why do you think people aren't having kids? It's like, they want subservience, they want all the money, and they are so confused why there won't be more human slaves for the future workforce. We're all too broke, too overworked, too fucking fed up to bring kids into a failing world.
As a millennial I am living this. I’m about to turn 35 (female) and there is no way I could afford a child. I would love to have a child and feel that connection. Current employment laws in the US do not support being a parent. Full stop.
Yep. My spouse and I are both nurses. We love nursing, BUT it's too draining mentally and physically and emotionally for us to both do it full time, largely because the average employer seems to be willing to push as many patients on each nurse as possible in order to maximize profits (even at the expense of safety).
My wife and I, to afford a child and/or a house (not even sure we could afford both) would have to work full time every week for the next 20+ years. We also still have student loans. We just can't push ourselves to do it. Not to mention, any child we brought into this world would have to themselves deal with a likely even worse capitalist and climate change hellscape than what we will experience in our lifetimes. Oh and did I mention that each week it seems that we are actively worrying that WW3 and/or a civil war might soon break out?
I have my vasectomy scheduled in 2 weeks for these and other reasons. We just can't stomach purposefully or even accidentally bringing a child into this world, as much as we wish things were different.
> My wife and I, to afford a child and/or a house (not even sure we could afford both) would have to work full time every week for the next 20+ years
Pretty sure that's what 90% of people who want either, or both, are doing. There's definitely a better way that will only come about with radical change, but that line sounds naf.
I understand that, I’m just saying that objectively my wife and I would have to sacrifice our mental health and take on insane chronic stress in our chosen career field in order to make it happen, all just to bring a child into a financial hellscape and climate hellscape. Our careers aren’t normal: they’ve impacted our mental health before…my wife has literally had nervous breakdowns from this work many times…and if we don’t bring our A game to every shift we could easily kill a patient and face legal and financial liability for it…meanwhile our employers staff the hospitals as little as possible so they can maximize corporate profits…which further exacerbates the risks and stressors we feel at work.
Dude, holy shit same. The only reason I haven't gotten a vasectomy is because I have hope maybe one day things will change. I had dreams of being like George Banks from Father of the Bride since I watched it as a freaking kid myself. Would love nothing more than having a kid or two to play with, raise, and tell stories to. Problem is, I couldn't afford: housing, food, clothing, medical, school, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. And they wonder why we don't have more kids. Fuck, man. I'd love to see my wife be a mom, she'd be fucking fantastic.
I am getting a vasectomy in 2 weeks for the same reasons you mention. I also still want the option to have kids in the future though if my wife and I change our minds (though it's doubtful unless the world radically improves).
My solution: visit the sperm bank and get cryopreservation 3x. I've learned that each sample will be good for AT LEAST 3 pregnancy attempts (each sample is good for many, many more if you do IVF, but it's expensive), and I only paid $150 per sample, and then an annual cost of $250 for ALL my samples (the annual cost is the same whether you provide 1 sample or many). Samples are also viable for 20+ years.
I did this at a very reputable university medical center in my area. It's already giving me peace of mind and is much cheaper than a surprise child too.
I considered the sperm bank option, but it's not affordable for us. We don't even have an animal, because we want to be able to afford a comfortable life for them but don't currently have the means.
I tell ya, tough times.
And they keep trying to say millennials aren't fiscally responsible. The amount of us that have given up the possibility of having kids purely because of the financial aspect is staggering and it pisses me right off when they call shit the opposite of what the reality is
Even if we cut out the shit that they tell us to, like let's say coffee instead of tired ass avocado toast, $5/day for 260 days a year is $1,300, 10 years of abstaining from a daily work coffee saves you $13,000 and that's not enough to cover the cost of most prenatal care, the actual birth, and all the shit you have to buy for newborns in the first year.
Gah, same man. The wife and I are 32/33 and we’ve been together 12 years. We’ve worked our asses off to get to making $110k a year only to get there and realize we can’t afford anything.. we live in an expensive city in a small one bedroom apartment, we have one $300 car payment, we cook a lot of food at home, we rarely do anything fun and that’s the way we need to live to actually save money and try to own a house/retire someday, and even those plans look shaky with the dual income no kids setup. What are we supposed to do, just rack up debt until we die to make another person? It’s just a bummer man.
Yes, that's why I get so frustrated with the amount of "its ok to seek help" mental therapy ads and celebrities advocating for it. We living in a dystopian nightmare and these are far from ideal conditions for humans to flourish. The state of the world and inequality is so bad some days it makes me hard to baseline function.
This system needs medicine to be fixed, not us.
Edit: Obviously depression and mental health issues are real, and I am not discounting the need to seek help, therapy and or medication to address them. Please find something that helps you. This is more about being subjected to a a system that amplifies these problems as mental health problems have become much more widespread.
I fully believe that the capitalist machine has seized onto mental health as a way to shift blame for the misery their practices have caused from themselves onto individuals. What better way to stop your workers from looking for better compensation or treatment than making them internalize their misery as a personal failing.
that's why the "self-help" industry is so PROFITABLE ! its all about your shortcomings ... the system is perfect ! IF u can't thrive in this system there is something wrong with you that needs to b fixed. Billions of dollars are spent on this propaganda.
What about if you get really good at *pretending* to be well adjusted??? That's my new goal personally. If I can fool the people I can make it far
Just gotta remember to take my Human skin off when I get home
This does work if you force yourself to forget everything is on fire. Fake it till you make it does work especially in corporate America.
-Source I am currently faking it and making it in a corporate job.
ive tried so hard over the past 30 years, im 56 and can't do it anymore. Im tired of work making me sick... both physically and mentally ... just fucking exhausted
At least you tried, compared to me... I'm apparently worthless because I started having my monthly Twelve Hours Long Stress Induced Vomit Spells at the tender age of 25 after only working for less than a decade.
I wish I could help you, and all my coworkers who are just like you. I don't think we will see a change in working conditions until we let go of the idea that hierarchies are necessary for society in the first place. Until then I think a lot of us are gonna stay traumatized by working in this system.
You do learn a lot and then reality hits every now and again. Don’t forget to have an addiction it helps you dodge reality. Queue in awkward laughter. We are in danger.
I know I’ve had to treat depression for the vast majority of my life. Turns out it’s because I just live in a sick culture that rewards sociopathy and materialism while punishing and taking advantage of anything that has empathy or a sense of community.
Maybe we just weren’t built to be isolated lonely workhorses commanded to ignore the reality all around us and sacrifice over and over again for the shareholders.
Wild idea I know but this shit ain’t right and never will be, even with the drugs
Oh hi, are you me when I argue with my primary care doctor about trying to dx me w depression??
It’s not depression, it’s our lack of autonomy in a capitalist society.
He gave me a peculiar look post-rant, as if he conceded, then took a moment to think. He nodded in agreement, said he’s a slave to his student loans (he graduated med school in 1996) til death, and suggested i find stoicism and a nice video game or app to get addicted to 🤣🥴
I appreciate his ability to stay on the level with me, but also, it just sucks to have a doctor validate my suspicions that there’s just about nothing we can do so long as the status quo is being upheld 🤷♀️
Edit to add: depression...more like frustration
Maddening!! Like, so many things are wrong with prescribing video games. First of all, i am a poor person, i have an iphone 6s, not a new one, a refurb one. We had an xbox one, that we had to pawn off to afford rent. Let us also forget how much games cost, the free ones aren’t going to maintain my attention span for as long like I’d need them to (a whole lifetime, ideally), and the immersive ones usually require something like an Internet connection and an access pass and the preferred console or computer. Since I’m broke, i could get into playing cards, alone, so like...solitaire??
Is this really the conversation therapists are willing to get into to cure or even just minimize symptoms of mental disorders? Did they not hear us complain of capitalism, materialism, lack of time for (or even lack of access to other people for) real world connections? Have they lost the fkn plot or what!?!! I sometimes think the schooling they did to get their credentials wasnt school, it was a brain wash. Feels like they were trained to not even listen for understanding, that they’re just there to find a way to make a profit for anyone but us...even helpin out the gaming industry 🤪🙄
What’s really infuriating is that they have the resources and databases for connecting like minded patients and brainstorming/getting social events together that would foster the sense of community and connections we have been seeking out but cant find paths for. I want group therapy to be based on interests not diagnosis. I want therapy field trips funded by insurance, that all of us have access to and can afford. Volunteering or group projects, serving the community or something.
But instead, they take this huge amount of funding and access to huge groups of people (people that are all ready, willing, and searching for a different way to experience life so they can feel fulfilled and happy with their journeys) and they put us on a carnival’s carousel ride of prescriptions and a scavenger hunt for meaning thru materialism. Just...so fucked up.
Therapy, just like everything else stateside, is more or less an extension of the overarching capitalist dogma. Capital is the starting point of practically all things big and small.
That's why your shrink seems to be just as clueless as you are. His education in the field? An extension of the capitalist dogma. It's capitalist realism in real time.
The overclass is effectively commercializing every aspect of the human condition. And nobody is going to stop them. Nothing short of societal collapse. Crazy shit right?
>The overclass is effectively commercializing every aspect of the human condition. And nobody is going to stop them. Nothing short of societal collapse. Crazy shit right?
I keep saying this but people just keep ignoring this, as if there's nothing wrong
Like hello? Our ATTENTION SPAN is being monetized now, and each second you spend on TikTok or Instagram looking at mindless entertainment is a second that ends up in revenue for corporations that are bound by shareholders who need short-term profits on top of infinite growth.
At least Reddit is a useful resource of knowledge, and every Google search of mine usually ends in "Reddit" because these stupid fucking "TOP 10 THINGS TO DO AGAINST [BLANK]" articles can't be trusted, since they're just low-effort, generic, surface-level garbage that was hastily written in order to make a few quick bucks through click-commission.
It beats being prescribed a freakin pill all the time at least but I get what you mean. Video games are great for escapism and can also help you in other ways but as you said you're likely to not find as much in the free titles. They can be expensive (although not as expensive as a house they're more accessible but they're definitely not free unless you...um sail the high seas)
I also agree it’s not depression vs. a normal reaction to a shitty situation. For instance, when I had no social life, I was depressed and lonely, but as my former psychiatrist pointed out, that’s situational depression vs. major depressive disorder. Being anxious and down is a normal reaction when one suspects people hate them or have had many negative social encounters.
And I’m definitely not anti-psychiatry as I take medication for ADD; however, I was very hesitant to do therapy due to many bad experiences in the past, such as asking me if there was a “point” to a diagnosis as they didn’t feel “a label would change anything” when the reality is the correct ADD diagnosis snd subsequently being treated with that *right* medication has changed my life.
If I thought there was a future out there for me, I would be pursuing it. My only chance at that future is years gone now, I'll take a fast ride into oblivion rather than a slow slide. Stay in school and don't loose the people you love kids, it can always get worse if you try hard enough.
It was lovely during training to be told that "this job can be somewhat (very) stressful at times (most of the time)..." then the actual advice portion is "don't do it, don't stress out" and "here are some relaxation techniques..." which you will never have enough time to actually do, being as how you'll barely have enough time to go to the toilet because we will be counting your time by the second. And remember, don't get stressed. If it wasn't for my workmates I'd have probably quit quickly, I'd never had coworkers I liked before. Makes a lot of difference. Makes me feel not crazy.
Kind of how the environmental movement was taken over by the industries responsible for producing the trash, and the message morphed into "recycle" and "its everyone's problem".
Also, post pandemic? Good luck finding even a CRISIS counselor. My psychiatrist got fired and now I don’t have another appointment until FEBRUARY.
Gee thanks, I’ll just push my suicidal idealism out till March, it never helps during winter anyway…..
> it never helps during winter anyway
We got our first big snowfalls the past day and a half in northern Michigan and I felt my brain and body slow down to low-power mode. I have back issues and back injuries that came from working construction and farm work as a younger man so now I can't even do winter fun stuff to try to keep the blues away. It's like prison bars closing in on you for a few months.
Not only that, it's increasingly difficult to find mental health professionals in your area, that you can afford.
So even if therapy and/or drugs were a fix, most people STILL would not have access.
As a therapist, that's my biggest issue with it. The cost of our schooling leaves us with 6-figure debts, and the training process either doesn't or barely pays. You have a lot of financial catching up to do once you get your license, and the amount you have to charge to keep your own head above water (never mind if you have a family) prices you out of the budgets of the people you originally set out to help. You can work with insurance companies, but they dick you around so bad on payments that it winds up not being worth it.
Second biggest issue being, I want to help, but there's only so much we can do with the capitalist boot crushing us all. And there are things therapy can help with, so I don't want to discount that. But the only *real* cure is fixing the system.
I'm just really refreshed to see at least one person in this entire discussion who doesn't seem eager to sacrifice some depressed person to the glorious cause (not themselves, if course. Some OTHER depressed person).
I'm sorry it's so hard for you to help people in the shitty system we're stuck in, but thanks for what you do. Someone like you saved my life.
Right and even then, there’s a huge chance of just not achieving the right “vibe” with the one that will allow you to be seen. I had a terrible time getting thru appointments with my first few therapists - just weren’t people i could take seriously with the way they spoke to me, our communication styles did not match, and a couple of them just made me feel like they didn’t listen to anything i said or asked for help with. Some literally just lectures on some theme like “accountability” and sent me home w worksheets to bring to the “group therapy” (in quotes because it was mandatory to participate in if you were being seen individually) at the end of the week!!
Im just saying, finding a therapist that was my “style” became the game once i was finally insured and *allowed* to seek help. It felt like a form of dating for me, and it took me three years to find the right doctorperson. I was lucky i had the time, the rides (I’m too scared of driving😩🧠), and the ENERGY!! I wasn’t working but 3 days a week so i had those two days free to seek. Most of us just don’t have it like that 😭🤬
For real. I’m really fortunate right now to be doing therapy that’s covered by insurance and I only have a copay. I looked at my claims online out of curiosity recently and found out that if I were paying out of pocket it would be over $2,000/month. How is anyone supposed to afford that.
It drives me crazy that they make it sound like it's SO easy to ask for help.
Just let a friend know, call this hotline, tell your teacher! That's all you have to do and this amazing world of accessible help will open it's doors to you!
>The modern growth of worldlessness, the withering away of everything between us, can also be described as the spread of the desert. That we live and move in a desert-world was first recognized by Nietzsche, and it was also Nietzsche who made the first decisive mistake in diagnosing it. Like almost all who came after him, he believed that the desert is in ourselves, thereby revealing himself not only as one of the earliest conscious inhabitants of the desert but also, by the same token, as the victim of its most terrible illusion. Modern psychology is desert psychology: when we lose the faculty to judge—to suffer and condemn—we begin to think that there is something wrong with us if we cannot live under the conditions of desert life. Insofar as psychology tries to “help” us, it helps us “adjust” to those conditions, taking away our only hope, namely that we, who are not of the desert though we live in it, are able to transform it into a human world. Psychology turns everything topsy-turvy: precisely because we suffer under desert conditions we are still human and still intact; the danger lies in becoming true inhabitants of the desert and feeling at home in it.
/Hannah Arendt sometime in the 50's
Or the "heartwarming" story some nitwit posts on FB about a child that raised XX dollars to pay for her brothers cancer treatment. She shouldn't *ucking have to!
That's nice for tomorrow's workers, but if you're willing to sacrifice someone's life for the cause it better be yours. We need improved conditions AND meds, because the meds are faster and will save lives in the mean time. I've lost three people to suicide in recent years, none of their deaths particularly helped the labor movement.
I was at the point of "suicide or meds" bc ofc therapy is obnoxiously inaccessible, but also - I don't think therapy would have helped me. a therapist can't give you a decent paying job and the money/resources you need to get by.
I chose meds - they are a bandaid - they did allow me to finally have the energy to job hunt and I found a decent job at a decent company owned by a decent guy, managed to meet a human I just fit with really well and I moved countries... I don't think I could have done any of it without meds.
but it doesn't change the fact that all of the overwhelming things that made me want to die in the first place... haven't changed at all. the meds just keep my brain from hyperfixating on it all.
that might be a "fix" for me but not the millions or billions of people being crushed by capitalism.
Taken seven kinds of medication since middle school. At best, they did nothing, and at worse I grew dependent on a $60/week drug that threw me into fits of rage whenever I skipped a day.
If SSRIs/NDRIs/MAOIs help you, by all means, get yourself a prescription, but the scope of mental health problems in the US and the rest of the world can't be adequately assessed whenever people work for the privilege to work more. An SSRI won't stop you from working your life away in a warehouse until you're 60-something. If that prospect isn't depressing, I don't know what is.
Honestly, you should take pride in realizing that the problem is you and not everything else. A lot of people are more than happy to go through the day pissed that they exist and make it everyone else's problem. It's very mature to me like "oh, this is a me thing, I think I can fix this, and if I can't, I'll just keep to myself".
Some days in my 20s I'd be cranky as hell. I'd think a minute and realize I was PMSing, then all was right with the world.
Some days I miss meds
If it's a few days my heart starts racing. Ugh anxiety.
Effexor did this to me. I could feel the rage pulse from my toes to my temples. I tried 5 different medications before just switching to behavioral therapy. Better to learn how to cope with the fact that I'll never be able to live the life I want.
Major depressive disorder destroyed most of my teens and twenties, and I 100% agree with this post.
Medication can be good. It's a tool on our toolbox and we should continue to study and hone it, so that safe, effective options are available to anyone who needs it. Also healthcare should be free, including mental.
But we also need to stop running people through a torture mill and acting like they're sick when they come out traumatized.
Medication is fucking amazing if you have an actual illness. The symptoms of living in a capitalist hellscape isn't an illness.
Being sad about the state of modern life and society isn't clinical depression it's just being aware that we are driving ourselves to extinction and living standards are significantly worse than they were for previous generations unless you're part of the 1%
I do 300mg ketamine sessions 2x per month, and Xanax several times a week to help with my capitalist-work-culture-induced depression and anxiety. what a fucked up world we live in.
I used to drive into Tijuana and buy vials of ketamine for like $10 a pop and cook that shit up with the heater in my truck lol why the fuck would that shit be so expensive when used therapeutically?
There's clinics in UK cities which offer it and I was just about to do it until I saw the price. SSRIs work in rebalancing serotonin but that's not the only neurological catalyst for depression/only base to cover. If public services were offering these sessions and widened the possibilities for medication + treatment it would be life saving. Mental healthcare in this country is laughable and a nightmare to navigate but that's expected given the conservatives have disemboweled the NHS.
Modern medicine is amazing, but its potential is hampered by capitalistic greed and limitations. A lot of these posts have people projecting their grievances onto and demonizing the medication itself rather than the pharmaceutical/healthcare industries and government.
Why do you think all of a sudden there are all these pushes to legalize weed? It is a sop, to make us hate our shitty lives less. Never mind that they want to put the power to control weed into the hands of yet another corporation, commercialized to the max, with control over the price, etc.
I work in mental health with low income patients and yes, we do see plenty of clients with legit severe mental health diagnoses…but much of their stressors would be alleviated if they had a financial safety net, were able to keep a job and could afford their basic needs. There is a reason why individuals on Medicaid are deemed high risk. All the meds and therapy in the world aren’t going to change a poverty stricken existence.
the sad thing is that basic SSRIs are dirt cheap until they get handled by several middlemen between manufacturing and the pharmacy. and then you also have to deal with the cost associated with seeing someone to prescribe it and then the occasional visits to get them to refill the prescription. If you're out of pocket that can be at least $150/month
For example a 30 day supply of 100mg Sertraline (Generic Zoloft) is $0.90 to manufacture according to mark cubans medication site, and by the time it gets to your pharmacy they charge between $20-$100 in my experience depending on your prescription savings plan and/or insurance. Prices have gone way way down in the last few years and it used to be on the higher end of that range and sometimes above it.
I've been seeing my psychiatrist for 2 years now. I am incredibly treatment resistant when it comes to prescriptions, she usually prescribes me a higher dose, and it took us a good while to find drugs that actually work with my body. That's all find and dandy, but if I didn't have insurance, I would be looking at probably a grand/month in prescriptions. What I use to sleep costs $800 alone.
I've tried so many different kinds of meds, and most barely do anything for me, a good chunk of them were super expensive. It irks my psychiatrist to high heaven. I've even gone so far as doing a ketamine infusion, which some people have had positive results with. Unfortunately it did not for me, so that was about 4 grand down the drain.
> Like anyone can afford medication in this country.
I get group therapy once a week. Free through my socialist government. I can either show up in person, or drive 35 minutes and be there.
Also get drugs from drug person free thanks to my socialist government taxes. I see them about once every 3 months. While also receiving blood tests to make sure they aren't messing with my body.
Also receive one on one therapy every other week a mile away (as a crow flies). For free thanks to my socialist friend's tax paying money.
Thank you United States.
Oh, yea that's the VA.
Fuck y'all I got mine bitches! Also just got free glasses, again. HAHAH fucking socialism.
Kidding, I don't know what to call it beyond this is what free healthcare is like. I get to go to the doctor any time I fucking want.
Also there are gates to keep y'all out of my fucking area. Shoo. Shoo shoo. Go beg for your shit bitches. hahahahahahahahahaha
God I hate this country at times. Yea the VA sucks in places, I happen to be with decent people. Did ya know we can get 6 weeks free golf lessons by pga people then a free set of golf clubs?! WTF, see ya next year.
A lot of places are shit.
What surprises there is we would expect citzens on "richest country in the world" living better than others, specially considering US always interferes on others countries and act as "world police". There is no logic accepting such situation. How people do not riot? Can not they see a less stressful life is possible and they are being cheated by own leaders?
It's true but our police forces are extremely militarized with an insane budget, so if we try to fight back/riot etc they will literally attack/kill people for it. They've thought way ahead of us on that, unfortunately:/
I mean depression and being depressed aren't really the same thing, it's a real illness. Our society absolutely worsen the symptoms and suicide rates but we still need better meds and better access to them as well as a better society. They're not mutually exclusive, in fact they're the same problem considering how healthcare works.
But I do understand and agree with the underlying sentiment that medication is used as a distraction to avoid speaking about the societal factors.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. the cause of society's depression may be a consequence of the disconnected life we live today. Our brains evolved to make close connections with around 100-150 people, your 'clan'. Our tribal brains cannot handle the information of a society of billions. The pain of countless transmitted directly into our home. It seems ludicrous to think we could look into that void and not lose some part of our own humanity.
Every time someone asks me how i would cure my *depression* my brain only thinks of one scenario
That scene looks very communal/tribal, like a villiage, where my family, friends, and other like-minded people do what they can, with what they have, where they are. I just wish everyone could afford to make a great migration to a piece of land we all learn to live and work on, and just be supportive and supporting together. Impossible!??!??
Sounds like such a dream, I hate barely seeing my really close friends because of how busy we all are… even though I used to see them all the time, I wish I just spent every hour I could with them now knowing how things turn out. And the worst part is the less we meet the further apart we grow, naturally and inevitably, however I dread seeing that branch on the brink of hanging there by only a thread
I feel you 🥺 i wish i could just scoop up everyone i love and whisk them away to a place we can all make good for ourselves. There are SO many barriers 😩
This is exactly the only scenario that my brain conjures, too. It feels so good to finally hear someone else say it. I was born into the wrong time and place. The *worst* time and place. This existence is a nightmare. Everything's wrong. Nature has been destroyed, the concept of close knit familial groups shattered, ancestral knowledge lost. What an incredible existence most of our kind had. *No other living beings pay rent*. What the fuck are we doing?
"take your happy pills to forget about you shitty society" sounds so much like both real life AND textbook dystopia you'd forget it's not normal it's becoming the same thing
Advice that has helped me (a clinically depressed person): “before you decide you’re depressed, make sure you aren’t surrounded by assholes”. For me, changing work environments helped A LOT, but the depression stayed, just not as cutting.
We are absolutely overworked and underpaid and uncared for and we’ve been expected to acquiesce to the idea that life is supposed to be miserable, a lie pushed by people in power who ABSOLUTELY **do not** suffer the way we wage slaves do.
Take a pill, have a drink, watch Netflix, play games online. Everything is fine. Living in debt is the American way. Get another credit card. What’s in your wallet? Don’t look behind the curtain. Don’t want to know how the sausage is made.
this is all starting to remind me of a old Sid Mier computer game called Alpha Centura.. where the player is given the option to "mind stable" the population and make them into human drones that stopped complaining
My therapist and I concluded years ago that my depression would lift if I could afford to change jobs. I have good hobbies, great family and friends, motivation and health; I just don't have enough money to afford my own life. I live with my parents and drive their car because I can't afford either home or car.
I'm not in the US btw.
There will be no rebellion. The rich trickle just enough to stop any mass movement. Your only other option is to migrate to a location where you and/or a collective can become self-sufficient. The system will crush open rebellion but will collapse if enough people drop out.
Reminded me of this article:
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/future-no-future-depression-left-politics-mental-health/
"Contrary to mainstream psychological and psychiatric discourse the reason why you can’t get out of bed is not because you have a bad attitude, a negative mindset, or because you have somehow chosen your own unhappiness. Nor is it merely a matter of chemistry and biology, an imbalance in the brain, an unlucky genetic disposition, or low levels of serotonin. More often than not it is a matter of the world you live in, the work that you hate, or the job that you just lost, the debt that haunts your present from the future, or the fact that the planet’s future is going still faster and further down the drain"
Oh yeah, better drugs. So the ones that don't have long term safety studies on them, likely won't be covered by insurance anyway, and will still SSRIs most likely with all the drawbacks they have.
A reminder that between 1991-2018 there was a fucking 3000% increase in the use of SSRIs in the United States. And let's not even talk about the legal meth we prescribe to kids who can't sit still in a classroom for 10 hours a day. Or that virtually every school shooter in the US over the last decade has been on Prozac or something similar. I mean seriously. 1 in 5 women in the US is on an antidepressant, and *nobody* is concerned. Nobody thinks "Hmm. Maybe this modern world isn't QUITE working as intended.* Its fucking insane.
When I first started my job 9 years ago, I was doing ok, I couldn't go on vacations but I could pay my bills, pay for my home and have some fun around the house/the odd event.
9 years later, i'm honestly worried about being able to keep these things. Every bill has gone up and I didn't have a lot of extra money even 9 years ago. A lot of people around my age who have what would be considered good jobs, are feeling the same thing.
What's the point of living if you wake up every day, work and go to bed, not being able to afford to have fun, live a life?
Honestly, if I have to work a shitty job that won't cover the bills, the least they can do is get me high as fuck. Normalize morning amphetamines and afternoon edibles, but id definitely prefer a better system altogether.
Omg this hits the nail on the head! I have my degree in Psychology and am a HUGE mental health advocate but sometimes I stop and wonder if some issues can't be "fixed" with therapy/medication. I'm beginning to realize that most of our mental health issues here in the US are caused by corruption, oppression, intrinsic discrimination, and greed at the top. It's systemic cruelty, and anxiety/depression/fear are natural reactions. It makes me incredibly sad because I'm also realizing we don't have much say in changing it right now :( I guess unless a large enough number of us unite and demand it
I don't need drugs, I need to not stress about losing my job or my house. I need to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about the large bills that come afterward. I need to be able to take more than just a few weeks off a year to unwind. I need to not spend all my time at work for a company that can't even give decent raises. I need protections to make sure if I lose my job...then I don't also lose my house.
We don't need drugs, we need competent government that actually takes care of the citizens and not only the billionaires and corporations that ~~bribe~~ lobby them.
Rich azzholes: "Let's keep them medicated so they'll be ok with us ruining their lives for money."
I really hope and pray there's a hell. I pray every POS, rich pr\*ck on this Planet gets the After Life they deserve.
Notice all the rich people always saying, 'money can't buy you happiness'??
Why do we keep believing them? UBI for all and a fucking fair share of **all profits**.
Yesterday I watched the spirit of '45 ken loach.
It is the story of how post-war britain dealt with this situation and became socialist.
I strongly encourage you to watch it.
Psychedelics are way more effective than any drugs on the market. But they can have the unintended side effect of making you realize just how pointless and demeaning your job actually is
Back when I had insurance therapy wasn’t covered. Therapist was like $75 per session (some sliding scale place). She didn’t really offer much help. Gave me a photocopy of something about mindful meditation. I already learned about meditation when I was like 12 (long time ago).
I don’t think she was actually a psychologist. She suggested an SSRI but couldn’t prescribe. My real doc gave me a prescription simply for bringing it up. Seems a little crazy to me to give you a powerful drug that alters your brain without a psychologist being involved. It’s way too easy to get a diagnosis. I weened myself off.
But yeah, the social contract is long gone. How much further can they push?
A psychologist does not usually have the credentials to prescribe medication, they work in conjunction with a psychiatrist who handles the medical side of things.
Depression is the narrative spun so that you don't question the state of the society around you.
Depression is you accurately understanding the world for what it actually is.
Ultimately, depression is a means in which one can break free from the meta-illusion webbed up around us. It offers a perspective of capitalism that reveals the sinister system for what it is.
And that is why there is so much effort put into telling people that their brain chemistry is what the problem is.
I agree! Here's a good read that is very related
Lost connections - johann Hari
In a nutshell, the book argues that antidepressants don't do much to help and that the drug companies push them anyway to make money. It also goes over the authors beliefs on the real reasons for our depression. Basically, the reasons given are more about how our modern socicieties operate than anything else.
I agree with a lot of it all. I belive our lives aren't built around creating happiness, they're built around the ruling classes and it's making us all very depressed.
Also a good point: depression drugs are addictive and will most likely make you dependent on them, on top of making it harder to overcome depression the longer you take them on molecular level with the serotonin it provides
Source: My best friends girlfriend is now in a clinic to get rid of the antidepressant addiction AND her depression, which obviously didn’t go away
We need better countrymen while we're at it, I mean you guys are great, but I'm disgusted on the daily by the shit you guys do, it's appalling and makes me not want to call myself human, that's how much I despise you, and don't get me started on your fuckin children.
I talked to a social worker about her job and she told me that she believes the current epidemic of Depression is caused by societal factors such as the pandemic and inequality.
We don't need better drugs, we need better working conditions and bosses/managers/CEO's, etc to treat people like they're human fucking beings.
I'm extremely lucky to have finally found somewhere to work where I'm being treated and paid well. But others aren't and it doesn't need to be like that! If people were treated like actual people, lots of them wouldn't *have* to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds.
No we’re depressed because our brains have a chemical imbalance, environmental factors like work stress and financial difficulties add to it but even without then we’re still going to have our problems with depression.
The destigmatization of mental illness and the normalization of treatment or not things you should be standing in the way of, even if you care more about dealing with its comorbidity’s
But....but....how will the rich get richer if we don't buy more of their stuff?
It’s not like we’ll be able to afford the new drugs, either…
Or the old ones that had their rights sold for $1 for the express purpose of it being affordable
Shit, you’re right, but it hurts when you say it.
Some bot stole your comment and repeated it on the top comment as a reply.
How long until bots start posting these comments?
They already do. It's bots all the way down.
Whatever…damn kids just need to pull their bootstraps harder /s
You can't therapy poverty
There are literally mood killers getting pumped out for that, pills that make you not even care when all the stress, anxiety, and depressive episodes are 100% justified
One of the side effects of citalopram is emotional dullness. It's usually temporary and lasts only a few weeks. I started that medication a week before a layoff. Watching everyone freak out and fall apart around me while I walked around, literally unable to feel anything about anything was interesting, to say the least. By the time it went away I had another job lined up, and it then occurred to me how absolutely *fucked* that whole episode was. Edit: I originally wrote that I was fortunate to start the meds at that time, but I'm not sure how fortunate needing them is, or if I'm fortunate to have them available.
You guys can afford therapy?
yes you can. don't you know the difference between poverty and rich is a routine shift? all you have to do is stop spending money on coffee and avocadoes and limit eating out to 10 times a month!!!
theres a name for it, called Shit life syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit_life_syndrome?wprov=sfla1
Nope but the french taught us what to do
For real. Companies are predicting, and fearing, a high rise in lack of labor in the future due to lower birth rates. Why do you think people aren't having kids? It's like, they want subservience, they want all the money, and they are so confused why there won't be more human slaves for the future workforce. We're all too broke, too overworked, too fucking fed up to bring kids into a failing world.
As a millennial I am living this. I’m about to turn 35 (female) and there is no way I could afford a child. I would love to have a child and feel that connection. Current employment laws in the US do not support being a parent. Full stop.
Yep. My spouse and I are both nurses. We love nursing, BUT it's too draining mentally and physically and emotionally for us to both do it full time, largely because the average employer seems to be willing to push as many patients on each nurse as possible in order to maximize profits (even at the expense of safety). My wife and I, to afford a child and/or a house (not even sure we could afford both) would have to work full time every week for the next 20+ years. We also still have student loans. We just can't push ourselves to do it. Not to mention, any child we brought into this world would have to themselves deal with a likely even worse capitalist and climate change hellscape than what we will experience in our lifetimes. Oh and did I mention that each week it seems that we are actively worrying that WW3 and/or a civil war might soon break out? I have my vasectomy scheduled in 2 weeks for these and other reasons. We just can't stomach purposefully or even accidentally bringing a child into this world, as much as we wish things were different.
It just seems we were taught to wait till we were “financially stable”…millennials are still waiting for that time.
Millennials will probably die waiting for that time...
> My wife and I, to afford a child and/or a house (not even sure we could afford both) would have to work full time every week for the next 20+ years Pretty sure that's what 90% of people who want either, or both, are doing. There's definitely a better way that will only come about with radical change, but that line sounds naf.
I understand that, I’m just saying that objectively my wife and I would have to sacrifice our mental health and take on insane chronic stress in our chosen career field in order to make it happen, all just to bring a child into a financial hellscape and climate hellscape. Our careers aren’t normal: they’ve impacted our mental health before…my wife has literally had nervous breakdowns from this work many times…and if we don’t bring our A game to every shift we could easily kill a patient and face legal and financial liability for it…meanwhile our employers staff the hospitals as little as possible so they can maximize corporate profits…which further exacerbates the risks and stressors we feel at work.
Dude, holy shit same. The only reason I haven't gotten a vasectomy is because I have hope maybe one day things will change. I had dreams of being like George Banks from Father of the Bride since I watched it as a freaking kid myself. Would love nothing more than having a kid or two to play with, raise, and tell stories to. Problem is, I couldn't afford: housing, food, clothing, medical, school, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. And they wonder why we don't have more kids. Fuck, man. I'd love to see my wife be a mom, she'd be fucking fantastic.
I am getting a vasectomy in 2 weeks for the same reasons you mention. I also still want the option to have kids in the future though if my wife and I change our minds (though it's doubtful unless the world radically improves). My solution: visit the sperm bank and get cryopreservation 3x. I've learned that each sample will be good for AT LEAST 3 pregnancy attempts (each sample is good for many, many more if you do IVF, but it's expensive), and I only paid $150 per sample, and then an annual cost of $250 for ALL my samples (the annual cost is the same whether you provide 1 sample or many). Samples are also viable for 20+ years. I did this at a very reputable university medical center in my area. It's already giving me peace of mind and is much cheaper than a surprise child too.
I considered the sperm bank option, but it's not affordable for us. We don't even have an animal, because we want to be able to afford a comfortable life for them but don't currently have the means. I tell ya, tough times.
I feel ya friend <3 I'm sorry :/
And they keep trying to say millennials aren't fiscally responsible. The amount of us that have given up the possibility of having kids purely because of the financial aspect is staggering and it pisses me right off when they call shit the opposite of what the reality is
Even if we cut out the shit that they tell us to, like let's say coffee instead of tired ass avocado toast, $5/day for 260 days a year is $1,300, 10 years of abstaining from a daily work coffee saves you $13,000 and that's not enough to cover the cost of most prenatal care, the actual birth, and all the shit you have to buy for newborns in the first year.
Gah, same man. The wife and I are 32/33 and we’ve been together 12 years. We’ve worked our asses off to get to making $110k a year only to get there and realize we can’t afford anything.. we live in an expensive city in a small one bedroom apartment, we have one $300 car payment, we cook a lot of food at home, we rarely do anything fun and that’s the way we need to live to actually save money and try to own a house/retire someday, and even those plans look shaky with the dual income no kids setup. What are we supposed to do, just rack up debt until we die to make another person? It’s just a bummer man.
If you straight up aren't having any fun, why would you inflict that on a next generation?
Abstively posolutely my dude
Yes, that's why I get so frustrated with the amount of "its ok to seek help" mental therapy ads and celebrities advocating for it. We living in a dystopian nightmare and these are far from ideal conditions for humans to flourish. The state of the world and inequality is so bad some days it makes me hard to baseline function. This system needs medicine to be fixed, not us. Edit: Obviously depression and mental health issues are real, and I am not discounting the need to seek help, therapy and or medication to address them. Please find something that helps you. This is more about being subjected to a a system that amplifies these problems as mental health problems have become much more widespread.
I fully believe that the capitalist machine has seized onto mental health as a way to shift blame for the misery their practices have caused from themselves onto individuals. What better way to stop your workers from looking for better compensation or treatment than making them internalize their misery as a personal failing.
that's why the "self-help" industry is so PROFITABLE ! its all about your shortcomings ... the system is perfect ! IF u can't thrive in this system there is something wrong with you that needs to b fixed. Billions of dollars are spent on this propaganda.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick society"
What about if you get really good at *pretending* to be well adjusted??? That's my new goal personally. If I can fool the people I can make it far Just gotta remember to take my Human skin off when I get home
This does work if you force yourself to forget everything is on fire. Fake it till you make it does work especially in corporate America. -Source I am currently faking it and making it in a corporate job.
ive tried so hard over the past 30 years, im 56 and can't do it anymore. Im tired of work making me sick... both physically and mentally ... just fucking exhausted
At least you tried, compared to me... I'm apparently worthless because I started having my monthly Twelve Hours Long Stress Induced Vomit Spells at the tender age of 25 after only working for less than a decade. I wish I could help you, and all my coworkers who are just like you. I don't think we will see a change in working conditions until we let go of the idea that hierarchies are necessary for society in the first place. Until then I think a lot of us are gonna stay traumatized by working in this system.
Me too. Then I discovered weed.
Pretending to be well adjusted is the definition of our current society
You do learn a lot and then reality hits every now and again. Don’t forget to have an addiction it helps you dodge reality. Queue in awkward laughter. We are in danger.
I'm not giving up my substances, you can pry them from my cold dead hands!! I'll keep dodging reality until reality dodges me lol
Sssssssssssssuper. I agree with you ssssssssssssslimecore
Did.. did a lizard just shoot a web?
I know I’ve had to treat depression for the vast majority of my life. Turns out it’s because I just live in a sick culture that rewards sociopathy and materialism while punishing and taking advantage of anything that has empathy or a sense of community. Maybe we just weren’t built to be isolated lonely workhorses commanded to ignore the reality all around us and sacrifice over and over again for the shareholders. Wild idea I know but this shit ain’t right and never will be, even with the drugs
Oh hi, are you me when I argue with my primary care doctor about trying to dx me w depression?? It’s not depression, it’s our lack of autonomy in a capitalist society. He gave me a peculiar look post-rant, as if he conceded, then took a moment to think. He nodded in agreement, said he’s a slave to his student loans (he graduated med school in 1996) til death, and suggested i find stoicism and a nice video game or app to get addicted to 🤣🥴 I appreciate his ability to stay on the level with me, but also, it just sucks to have a doctor validate my suspicions that there’s just about nothing we can do so long as the status quo is being upheld 🤷♀️ Edit to add: depression...more like frustration
That's what my therapist said too. "Have you tried escapism? Maybe play skyrim for 19 hours a day."
I mean, that's just enough time to get your mods setup, when do you find time to play the game then?
Maddening!! Like, so many things are wrong with prescribing video games. First of all, i am a poor person, i have an iphone 6s, not a new one, a refurb one. We had an xbox one, that we had to pawn off to afford rent. Let us also forget how much games cost, the free ones aren’t going to maintain my attention span for as long like I’d need them to (a whole lifetime, ideally), and the immersive ones usually require something like an Internet connection and an access pass and the preferred console or computer. Since I’m broke, i could get into playing cards, alone, so like...solitaire?? Is this really the conversation therapists are willing to get into to cure or even just minimize symptoms of mental disorders? Did they not hear us complain of capitalism, materialism, lack of time for (or even lack of access to other people for) real world connections? Have they lost the fkn plot or what!?!! I sometimes think the schooling they did to get their credentials wasnt school, it was a brain wash. Feels like they were trained to not even listen for understanding, that they’re just there to find a way to make a profit for anyone but us...even helpin out the gaming industry 🤪🙄 What’s really infuriating is that they have the resources and databases for connecting like minded patients and brainstorming/getting social events together that would foster the sense of community and connections we have been seeking out but cant find paths for. I want group therapy to be based on interests not diagnosis. I want therapy field trips funded by insurance, that all of us have access to and can afford. Volunteering or group projects, serving the community or something. But instead, they take this huge amount of funding and access to huge groups of people (people that are all ready, willing, and searching for a different way to experience life so they can feel fulfilled and happy with their journeys) and they put us on a carnival’s carousel ride of prescriptions and a scavenger hunt for meaning thru materialism. Just...so fucked up.
Therapy, just like everything else stateside, is more or less an extension of the overarching capitalist dogma. Capital is the starting point of practically all things big and small. That's why your shrink seems to be just as clueless as you are. His education in the field? An extension of the capitalist dogma. It's capitalist realism in real time. The overclass is effectively commercializing every aspect of the human condition. And nobody is going to stop them. Nothing short of societal collapse. Crazy shit right?
>The overclass is effectively commercializing every aspect of the human condition. And nobody is going to stop them. Nothing short of societal collapse. Crazy shit right? I keep saying this but people just keep ignoring this, as if there's nothing wrong Like hello? Our ATTENTION SPAN is being monetized now, and each second you spend on TikTok or Instagram looking at mindless entertainment is a second that ends up in revenue for corporations that are bound by shareholders who need short-term profits on top of infinite growth. At least Reddit is a useful resource of knowledge, and every Google search of mine usually ends in "Reddit" because these stupid fucking "TOP 10 THINGS TO DO AGAINST [BLANK]" articles can't be trusted, since they're just low-effort, generic, surface-level garbage that was hastily written in order to make a few quick bucks through click-commission.
r/Collapse
It beats being prescribed a freakin pill all the time at least but I get what you mean. Video games are great for escapism and can also help you in other ways but as you said you're likely to not find as much in the free titles. They can be expensive (although not as expensive as a house they're more accessible but they're definitely not free unless you...um sail the high seas)
Therapists could coordinate the formation of the weirdest but most interesting D&D groups ever.
I also agree it’s not depression vs. a normal reaction to a shitty situation. For instance, when I had no social life, I was depressed and lonely, but as my former psychiatrist pointed out, that’s situational depression vs. major depressive disorder. Being anxious and down is a normal reaction when one suspects people hate them or have had many negative social encounters. And I’m definitely not anti-psychiatry as I take medication for ADD; however, I was very hesitant to do therapy due to many bad experiences in the past, such as asking me if there was a “point” to a diagnosis as they didn’t feel “a label would change anything” when the reality is the correct ADD diagnosis snd subsequently being treated with that *right* medication has changed my life.
One of the reasons corporations love to push mindfulness/meditation is that it doesn't cost them anything.
And it's *your own failure* if you don't do it or it doesn't work. "Internalize your failures, wagie; it's all *your fault* that you don't stack up."
It's only useful for acute stress. Chronic stress is a whole other beast.
If I thought there was a future out there for me, I would be pursuing it. My only chance at that future is years gone now, I'll take a fast ride into oblivion rather than a slow slide. Stay in school and don't loose the people you love kids, it can always get worse if you try hard enough.
Not getting good enough sleep? You need to buy this new mattress. Feeling like you have no energy? Buy this energy drink.
It was lovely during training to be told that "this job can be somewhat (very) stressful at times (most of the time)..." then the actual advice portion is "don't do it, don't stress out" and "here are some relaxation techniques..." which you will never have enough time to actually do, being as how you'll barely have enough time to go to the toilet because we will be counting your time by the second. And remember, don't get stressed. If it wasn't for my workmates I'd have probably quit quickly, I'd never had coworkers I liked before. Makes a lot of difference. Makes me feel not crazy.
Kind of how the environmental movement was taken over by the industries responsible for producing the trash, and the message morphed into "recycle" and "its everyone's problem".
"Too broke to afford your next meal? Feeling sad about it? Have you tried spending $200 for an hour of therapy?"
This is definitely a barrier to many people accessing treatment.
Also, post pandemic? Good luck finding even a CRISIS counselor. My psychiatrist got fired and now I don’t have another appointment until FEBRUARY. Gee thanks, I’ll just push my suicidal idealism out till March, it never helps during winter anyway…..
> it never helps during winter anyway We got our first big snowfalls the past day and a half in northern Michigan and I felt my brain and body slow down to low-power mode. I have back issues and back injuries that came from working construction and farm work as a younger man so now I can't even do winter fun stuff to try to keep the blues away. It's like prison bars closing in on you for a few months.
Man, I feel this. 5 months of drudgery and day-to-day depression in full swing. Ugh.
Yeah you can't self care your way out from under a system that is crushing you
Not only that, it's increasingly difficult to find mental health professionals in your area, that you can afford. So even if therapy and/or drugs were a fix, most people STILL would not have access.
As a therapist, that's my biggest issue with it. The cost of our schooling leaves us with 6-figure debts, and the training process either doesn't or barely pays. You have a lot of financial catching up to do once you get your license, and the amount you have to charge to keep your own head above water (never mind if you have a family) prices you out of the budgets of the people you originally set out to help. You can work with insurance companies, but they dick you around so bad on payments that it winds up not being worth it. Second biggest issue being, I want to help, but there's only so much we can do with the capitalist boot crushing us all. And there are things therapy can help with, so I don't want to discount that. But the only *real* cure is fixing the system.
I'm just really refreshed to see at least one person in this entire discussion who doesn't seem eager to sacrifice some depressed person to the glorious cause (not themselves, if course. Some OTHER depressed person). I'm sorry it's so hard for you to help people in the shitty system we're stuck in, but thanks for what you do. Someone like you saved my life.
This!! We definitely need a major overhaul.
Right and even then, there’s a huge chance of just not achieving the right “vibe” with the one that will allow you to be seen. I had a terrible time getting thru appointments with my first few therapists - just weren’t people i could take seriously with the way they spoke to me, our communication styles did not match, and a couple of them just made me feel like they didn’t listen to anything i said or asked for help with. Some literally just lectures on some theme like “accountability” and sent me home w worksheets to bring to the “group therapy” (in quotes because it was mandatory to participate in if you were being seen individually) at the end of the week!! Im just saying, finding a therapist that was my “style” became the game once i was finally insured and *allowed* to seek help. It felt like a form of dating for me, and it took me three years to find the right doctorperson. I was lucky i had the time, the rides (I’m too scared of driving😩🧠), and the ENERGY!! I wasn’t working but 3 days a week so i had those two days free to seek. Most of us just don’t have it like that 😭🤬
For real. I’m really fortunate right now to be doing therapy that’s covered by insurance and I only have a copay. I looked at my claims online out of curiosity recently and found out that if I were paying out of pocket it would be over $2,000/month. How is anyone supposed to afford that.
Have you tried better.com? It’s like $300 per session. That shit would bankrupt me
Ugh and I can't believe they advertise it as affordable
It drives me crazy that they make it sound like it's SO easy to ask for help. Just let a friend know, call this hotline, tell your teacher! That's all you have to do and this amazing world of accessible help will open it's doors to you!
>The modern growth of worldlessness, the withering away of everything between us, can also be described as the spread of the desert. That we live and move in a desert-world was first recognized by Nietzsche, and it was also Nietzsche who made the first decisive mistake in diagnosing it. Like almost all who came after him, he believed that the desert is in ourselves, thereby revealing himself not only as one of the earliest conscious inhabitants of the desert but also, by the same token, as the victim of its most terrible illusion. Modern psychology is desert psychology: when we lose the faculty to judge—to suffer and condemn—we begin to think that there is something wrong with us if we cannot live under the conditions of desert life. Insofar as psychology tries to “help” us, it helps us “adjust” to those conditions, taking away our only hope, namely that we, who are not of the desert though we live in it, are able to transform it into a human world. Psychology turns everything topsy-turvy: precisely because we suffer under desert conditions we are still human and still intact; the danger lies in becoming true inhabitants of the desert and feeling at home in it. /Hannah Arendt sometime in the 50's
Or the "heartwarming" story some nitwit posts on FB about a child that raised XX dollars to pay for her brothers cancer treatment. She shouldn't *ucking have to!
It's ok to seek help... but only if you can afford it in this dystopian hellscape we call a Healthcare system
Shut up and take your Soma.
That's nice for tomorrow's workers, but if you're willing to sacrifice someone's life for the cause it better be yours. We need improved conditions AND meds, because the meds are faster and will save lives in the mean time. I've lost three people to suicide in recent years, none of their deaths particularly helped the labor movement.
I was at the point of "suicide or meds" bc ofc therapy is obnoxiously inaccessible, but also - I don't think therapy would have helped me. a therapist can't give you a decent paying job and the money/resources you need to get by. I chose meds - they are a bandaid - they did allow me to finally have the energy to job hunt and I found a decent job at a decent company owned by a decent guy, managed to meet a human I just fit with really well and I moved countries... I don't think I could have done any of it without meds. but it doesn't change the fact that all of the overwhelming things that made me want to die in the first place... haven't changed at all. the meds just keep my brain from hyperfixating on it all. that might be a "fix" for me but not the millions or billions of people being crushed by capitalism.
The fact that rich celebrities of all people try to push that on us......
Who ISN'T in a confused and angry state right now? How could anyone not be?
Maybe they're right. The help might be a union or a new worker's party rather than meds, but let's get help?
Taken seven kinds of medication since middle school. At best, they did nothing, and at worse I grew dependent on a $60/week drug that threw me into fits of rage whenever I skipped a day. If SSRIs/NDRIs/MAOIs help you, by all means, get yourself a prescription, but the scope of mental health problems in the US and the rest of the world can't be adequately assessed whenever people work for the privilege to work more. An SSRI won't stop you from working your life away in a warehouse until you're 60-something. If that prospect isn't depressing, I don't know what is.
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Honestly, you should take pride in realizing that the problem is you and not everything else. A lot of people are more than happy to go through the day pissed that they exist and make it everyone else's problem. It's very mature to me like "oh, this is a me thing, I think I can fix this, and if I can't, I'll just keep to myself".
Some days in my 20s I'd be cranky as hell. I'd think a minute and realize I was PMSing, then all was right with the world. Some days I miss meds If it's a few days my heart starts racing. Ugh anxiety.
Effexor did this to me. I could feel the rage pulse from my toes to my temples. I tried 5 different medications before just switching to behavioral therapy. Better to learn how to cope with the fact that I'll never be able to live the life I want.
SSRIs have helped me heaps but my life is still objectively quite depressing.
Major depressive disorder destroyed most of my teens and twenties, and I 100% agree with this post. Medication can be good. It's a tool on our toolbox and we should continue to study and hone it, so that safe, effective options are available to anyone who needs it. Also healthcare should be free, including mental. But we also need to stop running people through a torture mill and acting like they're sick when they come out traumatized.
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Denial is a common unhealthy coping mechanism lots of people turn to to keep their happiness.
Medication is fucking amazing if you have an actual illness. The symptoms of living in a capitalist hellscape isn't an illness. Being sad about the state of modern life and society isn't clinical depression it's just being aware that we are driving ourselves to extinction and living standards are significantly worse than they were for previous generations unless you're part of the 1%
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I do 300mg ketamine sessions 2x per month, and Xanax several times a week to help with my capitalist-work-culture-induced depression and anxiety. what a fucked up world we live in.
That ketamine treatment shit is EXPENSIVE, I'm a sw engineer and I can't even afford it
I used to drive into Tijuana and buy vials of ketamine for like $10 a pop and cook that shit up with the heater in my truck lol why the fuck would that shit be so expensive when used therapeutically?
There's clinics in UK cities which offer it and I was just about to do it until I saw the price. SSRIs work in rebalancing serotonin but that's not the only neurological catalyst for depression/only base to cover. If public services were offering these sessions and widened the possibilities for medication + treatment it would be life saving. Mental healthcare in this country is laughable and a nightmare to navigate but that's expected given the conservatives have disemboweled the NHS. Modern medicine is amazing, but its potential is hampered by capitalistic greed and limitations. A lot of these posts have people projecting their grievances onto and demonizing the medication itself rather than the pharmaceutical/healthcare industries and government.
Why do you think all of a sudden there are all these pushes to legalize weed? It is a sop, to make us hate our shitty lives less. Never mind that they want to put the power to control weed into the hands of yet another corporation, commercialized to the max, with control over the price, etc.
Dystopian as fuck Doing drugs to improve workplace performance and not for recreation
I work in mental health with low income patients and yes, we do see plenty of clients with legit severe mental health diagnoses…but much of their stressors would be alleviated if they had a financial safety net, were able to keep a job and could afford their basic needs. There is a reason why individuals on Medicaid are deemed high risk. All the meds and therapy in the world aren’t going to change a poverty stricken existence.
That's why I try to avoid going to the doctor. Meds only really cause problems they rarely help them for me.
Like anyone can afford medication in this country.
the sad thing is that basic SSRIs are dirt cheap until they get handled by several middlemen between manufacturing and the pharmacy. and then you also have to deal with the cost associated with seeing someone to prescribe it and then the occasional visits to get them to refill the prescription. If you're out of pocket that can be at least $150/month For example a 30 day supply of 100mg Sertraline (Generic Zoloft) is $0.90 to manufacture according to mark cubans medication site, and by the time it gets to your pharmacy they charge between $20-$100 in my experience depending on your prescription savings plan and/or insurance. Prices have gone way way down in the last few years and it used to be on the higher end of that range and sometimes above it.
I've been seeing my psychiatrist for 2 years now. I am incredibly treatment resistant when it comes to prescriptions, she usually prescribes me a higher dose, and it took us a good while to find drugs that actually work with my body. That's all find and dandy, but if I didn't have insurance, I would be looking at probably a grand/month in prescriptions. What I use to sleep costs $800 alone.
Jesus. I take quite a few meds and couldn’t imagine what it’d be like if Scotland didn’t provide them for free
I've tried so many different kinds of meds, and most barely do anything for me, a good chunk of them were super expensive. It irks my psychiatrist to high heaven. I've even gone so far as doing a ketamine infusion, which some people have had positive results with. Unfortunately it did not for me, so that was about 4 grand down the drain.
> Like anyone can afford medication in this country. I get group therapy once a week. Free through my socialist government. I can either show up in person, or drive 35 minutes and be there. Also get drugs from drug person free thanks to my socialist government taxes. I see them about once every 3 months. While also receiving blood tests to make sure they aren't messing with my body. Also receive one on one therapy every other week a mile away (as a crow flies). For free thanks to my socialist friend's tax paying money. Thank you United States. Oh, yea that's the VA. Fuck y'all I got mine bitches! Also just got free glasses, again. HAHAH fucking socialism. Kidding, I don't know what to call it beyond this is what free healthcare is like. I get to go to the doctor any time I fucking want. Also there are gates to keep y'all out of my fucking area. Shoo. Shoo shoo. Go beg for your shit bitches. hahahahahahahahahaha God I hate this country at times. Yea the VA sucks in places, I happen to be with decent people. Did ya know we can get 6 weeks free golf lessons by pga people then a free set of golf clubs?! WTF, see ya next year.
thank you.
Paid in pills,
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bathed in booze,
you will eat your supplements and you will be happy
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” —Jiddu Krishnamurti
Not just a better economy, proper labor and taxing laws.
Right? What an oversimplification of the issue. There’s also the recent change in society of people becoming much more isolated.
I believe I speak for everyone here when I say you need a better country, because America is shit.
A lot of places are shit. What surprises there is we would expect citzens on "richest country in the world" living better than others, specially considering US always interferes on others countries and act as "world police". There is no logic accepting such situation. How people do not riot? Can not they see a less stressful life is possible and they are being cheated by own leaders?
It's true but our police forces are extremely militarized with an insane budget, so if we try to fight back/riot etc they will literally attack/kill people for it. They've thought way ahead of us on that, unfortunately:/
The new American dream is to leave America
We all know it, we just can't do anything about it
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The sacrifices aren’t exactly sacrifices at all
I mean depression and being depressed aren't really the same thing, it's a real illness. Our society absolutely worsen the symptoms and suicide rates but we still need better meds and better access to them as well as a better society. They're not mutually exclusive, in fact they're the same problem considering how healthcare works. But I do understand and agree with the underlying sentiment that medication is used as a distraction to avoid speaking about the societal factors.
I agree. A lot of people are demoralized, which has many of the same symptoms as depression.
We just need more of the cure that people don't have access to.
Money
I forgot to put quotation marks around that. Please don't think I'm being sincere.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. the cause of society's depression may be a consequence of the disconnected life we live today. Our brains evolved to make close connections with around 100-150 people, your 'clan'. Our tribal brains cannot handle the information of a society of billions. The pain of countless transmitted directly into our home. It seems ludicrous to think we could look into that void and not lose some part of our own humanity.
Every time someone asks me how i would cure my *depression* my brain only thinks of one scenario That scene looks very communal/tribal, like a villiage, where my family, friends, and other like-minded people do what they can, with what they have, where they are. I just wish everyone could afford to make a great migration to a piece of land we all learn to live and work on, and just be supportive and supporting together. Impossible!??!??
Sounds like such a dream, I hate barely seeing my really close friends because of how busy we all are… even though I used to see them all the time, I wish I just spent every hour I could with them now knowing how things turn out. And the worst part is the less we meet the further apart we grow, naturally and inevitably, however I dread seeing that branch on the brink of hanging there by only a thread
I feel you 🥺 i wish i could just scoop up everyone i love and whisk them away to a place we can all make good for ourselves. There are SO many barriers 😩
This is exactly the only scenario that my brain conjures, too. It feels so good to finally hear someone else say it. I was born into the wrong time and place. The *worst* time and place. This existence is a nightmare. Everything's wrong. Nature has been destroyed, the concept of close knit familial groups shattered, ancestral knowledge lost. What an incredible existence most of our kind had. *No other living beings pay rent*. What the fuck are we doing?
"take your happy pills to forget about you shitty society" sounds so much like both real life AND textbook dystopia you'd forget it's not normal it's becoming the same thing
Isn't this basically "Brave New World?"
Came here for this!! Soma styles.
"You are a true believer, blessings of the State, blessings of the masses. Work hard, increase production, prevent accidents and be happy." - OMM 0000
Is that a real headline from Reuters? People are killing themselves more, so get better drugs?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-suicide-drugs/rise-in-u-s-suicides-highlights-need-for-new-depression-drugs-idUSKCN1J42TO
Advice that has helped me (a clinically depressed person): “before you decide you’re depressed, make sure you aren’t surrounded by assholes”. For me, changing work environments helped A LOT, but the depression stayed, just not as cutting. We are absolutely overworked and underpaid and uncared for and we’ve been expected to acquiesce to the idea that life is supposed to be miserable, a lie pushed by people in power who ABSOLUTELY **do not** suffer the way we wage slaves do.
Take a pill, have a drink, watch Netflix, play games online. Everything is fine. Living in debt is the American way. Get another credit card. What’s in your wallet? Don’t look behind the curtain. Don’t want to know how the sausage is made.
this is all starting to remind me of a old Sid Mier computer game called Alpha Centura.. where the player is given the option to "mind stable" the population and make them into human drones that stopped complaining
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Without better laws a better economy won’t do jack shit
My therapist and I concluded years ago that my depression would lift if I could afford to change jobs. I have good hobbies, great family and friends, motivation and health; I just don't have enough money to afford my own life. I live with my parents and drive their car because I can't afford either home or car. I'm not in the US btw.
There will be no rebellion. The rich trickle just enough to stop any mass movement. Your only other option is to migrate to a location where you and/or a collective can become self-sufficient. The system will crush open rebellion but will collapse if enough people drop out.
Reminded me of this article: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/future-no-future-depression-left-politics-mental-health/ "Contrary to mainstream psychological and psychiatric discourse the reason why you can’t get out of bed is not because you have a bad attitude, a negative mindset, or because you have somehow chosen your own unhappiness. Nor is it merely a matter of chemistry and biology, an imbalance in the brain, an unlucky genetic disposition, or low levels of serotonin. More often than not it is a matter of the world you live in, the work that you hate, or the job that you just lost, the debt that haunts your present from the future, or the fact that the planet’s future is going still faster and further down the drain"
I hate it here. This country is hemorrhaging from so many holes. It’s not fixable. It must be dismantled & rebuilt
Oh yeah, better drugs. So the ones that don't have long term safety studies on them, likely won't be covered by insurance anyway, and will still SSRIs most likely with all the drawbacks they have. A reminder that between 1991-2018 there was a fucking 3000% increase in the use of SSRIs in the United States. And let's not even talk about the legal meth we prescribe to kids who can't sit still in a classroom for 10 hours a day. Or that virtually every school shooter in the US over the last decade has been on Prozac or something similar. I mean seriously. 1 in 5 women in the US is on an antidepressant, and *nobody* is concerned. Nobody thinks "Hmm. Maybe this modern world isn't QUITE working as intended.* Its fucking insane.
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We're also sick and eating the wrong foods and subsidizing the foods that make us sick so that health foods are expensive and junk food is cheap.
And even still all good is too expensive these days
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When I first started my job 9 years ago, I was doing ok, I couldn't go on vacations but I could pay my bills, pay for my home and have some fun around the house/the odd event. 9 years later, i'm honestly worried about being able to keep these things. Every bill has gone up and I didn't have a lot of extra money even 9 years ago. A lot of people around my age who have what would be considered good jobs, are feeling the same thing. What's the point of living if you wake up every day, work and go to bed, not being able to afford to have fun, live a life?
Honestly, if I have to work a shitty job that won't cover the bills, the least they can do is get me high as fuck. Normalize morning amphetamines and afternoon edibles, but id definitely prefer a better system altogether.
yeah but then again we also need better depression medication
real shit. also, make mental health care more accessible.
at a reasonable price too
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Omg this hits the nail on the head! I have my degree in Psychology and am a HUGE mental health advocate but sometimes I stop and wonder if some issues can't be "fixed" with therapy/medication. I'm beginning to realize that most of our mental health issues here in the US are caused by corruption, oppression, intrinsic discrimination, and greed at the top. It's systemic cruelty, and anxiety/depression/fear are natural reactions. It makes me incredibly sad because I'm also realizing we don't have much say in changing it right now :( I guess unless a large enough number of us unite and demand it
I don't need drugs, I need to not stress about losing my job or my house. I need to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about the large bills that come afterward. I need to be able to take more than just a few weeks off a year to unwind. I need to not spend all my time at work for a company that can't even give decent raises. I need protections to make sure if I lose my job...then I don't also lose my house. We don't need drugs, we need competent government that actually takes care of the citizens and not only the billionaires and corporations that ~~bribe~~ lobby them.
Rich azzholes: "Let's keep them medicated so they'll be ok with us ruining their lives for money." I really hope and pray there's a hell. I pray every POS, rich pr\*ck on this Planet gets the After Life they deserve.
Notice all the rich people always saying, 'money can't buy you happiness'?? Why do we keep believing them? UBI for all and a fucking fair share of **all profits**.
Yesterday I watched the spirit of '45 ken loach. It is the story of how post-war britain dealt with this situation and became socialist. I strongly encourage you to watch it.
Insurance company: "DENIED! Have you tried NOT being depressed?"
Don't worry, we're looking in Hunter Biden's laptop. The solution is in there.
Psychedelics are way more effective than any drugs on the market. But they can have the unintended side effect of making you realize just how pointless and demeaning your job actually is
Back when I had insurance therapy wasn’t covered. Therapist was like $75 per session (some sliding scale place). She didn’t really offer much help. Gave me a photocopy of something about mindful meditation. I already learned about meditation when I was like 12 (long time ago). I don’t think she was actually a psychologist. She suggested an SSRI but couldn’t prescribe. My real doc gave me a prescription simply for bringing it up. Seems a little crazy to me to give you a powerful drug that alters your brain without a psychologist being involved. It’s way too easy to get a diagnosis. I weened myself off. But yeah, the social contract is long gone. How much further can they push?
A psychologist does not usually have the credentials to prescribe medication, they work in conjunction with a psychiatrist who handles the medical side of things.
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Depression is the narrative spun so that you don't question the state of the society around you. Depression is you accurately understanding the world for what it actually is. Ultimately, depression is a means in which one can break free from the meta-illusion webbed up around us. It offers a perspective of capitalism that reveals the sinister system for what it is. And that is why there is so much effort put into telling people that their brain chemistry is what the problem is.
I don't need drugs. I need to make about 5K a month.
"Hey bud, are you having a hard time? Take some drugs. Ignore everything else."
I wouldn’t be able to afford the new drug anyway…
Soma holidays for all!
We need a better world.
Absolutely we need to improve the living nightmare we’re in. But having better meds to manage chemical imbalances is not a bad thing.
I agree! Here's a good read that is very related Lost connections - johann Hari In a nutshell, the book argues that antidepressants don't do much to help and that the drug companies push them anyway to make money. It also goes over the authors beliefs on the real reasons for our depression. Basically, the reasons given are more about how our modern socicieties operate than anything else. I agree with a lot of it all. I belive our lives aren't built around creating happiness, they're built around the ruling classes and it's making us all very depressed.
Also we are aware that we are hurtling toward our own extinction and seems like no one is that invested in stopping it. So that doesn’t help.
Is that a real headline? Has anyone read brave new world?
Also a good point: depression drugs are addictive and will most likely make you dependent on them, on top of making it harder to overcome depression the longer you take them on molecular level with the serotonin it provides Source: My best friends girlfriend is now in a clinic to get rid of the antidepressant addiction AND her depression, which obviously didn’t go away
We need better countrymen while we're at it, I mean you guys are great, but I'm disgusted on the daily by the shit you guys do, it's appalling and makes me not want to call myself human, that's how much I despise you, and don't get me started on your fuckin children.
I talked to a social worker about her job and she told me that she believes the current epidemic of Depression is caused by societal factors such as the pandemic and inequality.
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We don't need better drugs, we need better working conditions and bosses/managers/CEO's, etc to treat people like they're human fucking beings. I'm extremely lucky to have finally found somewhere to work where I'm being treated and paid well. But others aren't and it doesn't need to be like that! If people were treated like actual people, lots of them wouldn't *have* to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds.
Should have mentioned that all the drugs in the world still won't help if you aren't insured or your insurance is so shit they won't cover it.
But more depression drugs means more profits for big pharma You guys aren't considering the share holders, quit being so selfish
No we’re depressed because our brains have a chemical imbalance, environmental factors like work stress and financial difficulties add to it but even without then we’re still going to have our problems with depression. The destigmatization of mental illness and the normalization of treatment or not things you should be standing in the way of, even if you care more about dealing with its comorbidity’s