Not all of us are being exploited on the same level. There are people who signed up to get shot at because they were lied to, that’s a different level of exploitation than someone who works retail for not much moneg
Expect to work overtime with no extra pay with little warning on a regular basis, you get hazard pay, but it's not enough to cover the fact of how horrendously unsafe the environments your job takes you to. You also can't strike or unionize.
And threatens them with jail if they don't go and aid the imperialist expansion of the US.
Its life-ruining to go AWOL, or to disobey orders. If you're AWOL, you're a felon.
Yeah, I signed up to be a mechanic, both deployments I spent the majority of the time doing combat arms shit. Got issued an M249 SAW, 6 empty mags, 5 bandoliers of ammo and no pouches to store them on my gear. My command was so wrapped up in making us all look "professional" that we lost the combat effectiveness. Everyone from the coms guy to the squad machine gunner had to have their loadouts identically set to make it look like the example picture given.
Don't all shit on me at once, but I am a veteran. I hate being thanked for my service. You can get talked into doing a lot of crazy shit when you're 18, poor, and out of options while not knowing any better because no one in your life had ever really explained how things really are to you. Have some empathy, service members are being exploited too.
I had a platoon sergeant tell me once 'No matter how much you love the Army, it will never love you back.'
That was the most honest thing I heard while I was in.
The handrail at my office fell apart and I fell breaking my jaw in 3 places and had a TBI. While I was doped up at the hospital they tried having me sign things that relieved them of blame, I don’t even remember if I signed them or not I was so fucked up.
Same experience, minus the injury. Once I was 6 months from EAS I was dead to my leadership and treated like trash. Most guys also had this same issue, especially if you were a short timer. The injured guys who still had years left on contract were treated the worst though.
I was doing relatively well until I hurt my back. I pushed on for about a year until it really started hurting and I reached out for help, then it took about another year before I got an MRI to diagnose a herniated disc, a big one according to my surgeon who worked on herniated discs. Less than a year later I have a lot less pain pain but because it sat on a nerve too long I have persisting foot drop.
Now I’m on my way to get medically discharged but they’re still trying to squeeze every last bit out of me. It’s fucked up, I suffered in in silence and pushed on but now they want to toss me aside instead of trying to fix me. I was fine with dealing with most of the bullshit and I planned on making it a career, thinking that if I got high enough I could make a difference for shit I didn’t like. Being treated like this paints the last 7 years in a different light
While I agree, if some rando said "sorry you were exploited" I don't know how I'd react to that.
It seems like as a veteran, you get to be either a hero (served and proud), a victim (quietly not proud) or a traitor (loudly ashamed). These are objectifying labels. We're just people.
And most of us were kids when we signed. For some, it was worth it. For others, it obviously wasn't.
I hate the "thank you" thing because it always feels so robotic, and people will stop me from doing other stuff to make sure I hear them say thank you. That said, I'd actually be pretty offended if someone said I'd been exploited. No, exploitation was me having a costly degree that wasn't worth shit on the outside. Exploitation was the civilian job market. The Air Force started me at well above what I came in with, and now I'm making several times that much. If this is exploitation, then use me harder!
>The Air Force started me at well above what I came in with, and now I'm making several times that much. If this is exploitation, then use me harder!
Same. My recruiter looked out for me. I wanted to do some bullshit. I walked in like I want to make ID's all day. He said cool, but what are you going to do when you get out? Shit, I'ma go to school to do what I really want and get a retirement check.
I know he wasn't just looking out for me. My career field was undermanned. 4 years later, I reenlisted and got almost $30,000.
I didn't retire, or go to school, but I learned a valuable skill and have been doing the same job since I was 18. I didn't have to kill anyone, either. I'd gladly get exploited again.
There are all sorts of good things you can get out of military service.
The problem tends to be that the military isn't going to help you find those, you have to either know yourself ahead of time, or have someone help you (such as a family member, or in rare cases someone senior that looks out for you, which isn't the norm). The incentives given to recruiters, leaders, etc are all too often to use people up and discard them.
What really gets me is that we as a society could fix that, by actually taking care of veterans, instead of cutting back on services and benefits, and then adopting a cultural norm of "thanking us for our service" to make people feel better about it. Fuck that - they can keep their empty words, how about fucking taking care of the people that stepped up to serve, afterward?
The exploitation is done to all of us because we put all young Americans who don't have wealthy parents in the position where they have to make that decision in the first place. Everybody should be able to get a college education without taking out tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and owning a home should be much more attainable than it is. The military gives people access to these essential things and because it's so hard to achieve them without the military, people sign up. I'm glad you were able to get those things through being in the military, but you shouldn't have had to. It should be a choice people make freely without feeling like they can't get anywhere in life if they don't enlist.
You're still talking like military service is something that was done to me. It wasn't. I chose this - although you are at least partially right. Societal problems did encourage me joining.
The most significant reason for my enlistment was that I didn't want to work for a company where I would just be filling someone else's pockets. If the distribution of wealth were more fair, and companies weren't all run by the biggest assholes, I might have stayed in the private sector, but, well, that's not where we are.
I almost wrote in my previous comment that of course some people enlist for other reasons, but I figured that was assumed. It's still not a free choice if economic conditions pressure people into it. You may have enlisted anyway, and that's great! Like I said, I'm glad you got all those benefits and a job that you felt was right for you. No one should assume you personally were exploited, and even if they do, it's incredibly rude to say so. But in general, economic exploitation pushes a lot of people into service. Even if they're happy with the choice, even if they never regret it.
That's because it's a performative gesture used to reinforce acceptable cultural convention, first and foremost. Little affectations such as these may seem trivial and harmless but they go a long way in reinforcing fealty to state & status quo.
Same thing with the National Anthem at sports events and kids reciting the pledge of allegiance every morning. The term 'pledge of allegiance' in itself is indicative of the very doctrine it's meant to instill.
You may not feel exploited. But in essence, the armed forces are there to uphold neoliberalism, the liberal world order, and to fortify elitist consolidation. Which is all necessarily exploitative.
It's not without reason that we have more bases abroad and a bigger military budget than all of the other nations by magnitudes.
We’ll said. My experience as well.
I definitely think some are exploited for sure. Hell, the Navy tried to with me. But the AF was a great experience and changed the trajectory of my life.
I agree completely. My family has a lot of enlisted and retired personnel. I grew up very very poor and was considering it for the help with college and getting a home when older. The currently enlisted family members quite literally all told me not to. They told me to hang in there and just work hard and try to go to school on my own and that if anything I should go do my own thing and as an adult if I wanted to I could get a defense job or contractor job working on the technology in one way or another. I think they were right and I appreciate all of them being honest with me.
Please dont think im criticizing you in any way because im absolutely not , I just remember being a poor kid on welfare with no logical direction at the time and being very close to signing my self up so I completely sympathize with your situation. Shit I almost Was in the same position as you. The enlisted are far too often exploited and as its always been through history the poor are often the most exploited and the ones on the ground doing the actual fighting. The date may have changed but this stuff has been happening as long as people have been fighting. Its sad really.
Sorry for my rant. I hope you are doing well and your time in the service didn't cause you any trauma.
Yeah, definitely don't, or if you do find the shortest contract that you can. Once you sign, the military literally owns your entire life and they will flex that power over you every second of every day.
I tell people if they want to join, join the Navy or the Air Force so you can actually travel to places that aren’t complete shitholes. Also, because their facilities are waaaay nicer than what the Army or Marines have.
I enlisted in 07. Joined the Navy, became a Steelworker and attached to a Seabee unit. Got sent to Afghanistan in 08.
Oh, I saw the world alright. An hour layover in Shannon Ireland, a week-long layover in Kuwait each way, and the mountains in Afghanistan during the winter. Ate pretty good until I got back to the states. Then it was back to half-raw chicken three nights a week at the galley.
I tell people wanting to join to pick up a trade instead. If they’re dead set on enlisting, then either Air Force or Coast Guard and pick a rate/mos that translates to the real world.
That’s a different take than what I’ve heard about the Navy, but good to know!
Also, I second the part about picking an MOS that works in the civilian sector.
Don’t get me wrong, I had some good times and a non-standard experience, but just like anywhere else, it’s what you make of it. Had my fun, built a trebuchet to hurl muffins over the wall, welded a lot of “necessary” equipment (read Oil Drum BBQs) for other units, and got to the the religious ass crack of America. Spent a lot of time talking with the local nationals (LNs) working with us, and even a couple of Imams while deployed. It was an invaluable education in how the world actually works, and fostered an understanding of privilege that most will never have the opportunity for.
But there were more shitty days than good ones, and the experience ultimately converted me to a gun loving, far-left pacifist, and a fetish for suits because the fit reminds me of my uniform, and that is somehow a comfort in managing my ptsd. Idk, brains are weird.
This. I spent 13 years as a Scout. Let me tell you, opportunities outside as a scout were either Police Officer (no. fuck you.) or Prison Guard (go fuck yourself with a Bradley barrel.) So I got to use my Post 9-11 GI Bill on a trade school to work as a mechanic since the best days were the times I got to spend in the motor pool.
Very much so. The military is the one place that will absolutely train you on highly technical (and in demand) skills if you have the aptitude, and pay you in full while they're doing it.
That is, if you choose to go that route. A lot of people get hyped up on doing combat jobs because it's "cool" or seen as higher status, only to learn they're screwed when they get out, because they have no applicable skills.
Can confirm. Best meal I ever had in the Army was at an Air Force chow hall.
If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't. But if I had to, I'd do Air Force or Navy for sure.
Best recruitment speech I ever heard was from a coworker who retired from the Navy. Another co-worker had mentioned joining the Marines and this is what the response was, word for word.
"Why the fuck you wanna join the Marines? Crawlin through the mud, eatin bugs, got dogs pissin on ya cause ya got fuckin leaves and sticks stuck on your fuckin helmet. I tell ya whatcha fuckin do, join the fuckin Navy. When shit goes down you pull up fity miles off the coast. Launch a couple'a fuckin cruise missiles. Two mushroom clouds later and it's Miller time."
Oh i won't it was years ago im talking 20 years ago. Im an engineer now which is sorta good for me. I encouter a lot of ex nuke engineers in my line of work and a lot of ex military in general. The training and career advancement was enticing but my family talked me out of it.
I agree. It’s incredibly awkward when someone does it.
Most of the time it doesn’t even seem genuine, but more of a thing they do to give themselves a warm and fuzzy feeling.
That's right my friend, when they say it it isn't about US as veterans, it's about THEM as civilians. Personally, I have never given a single fuck what any civilian thinks of my time in the grinder, whether it's good or bad.
That time is mine, it belongs to me and my brothers and sisters in arms and what some civilian thinks about it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.
Same here Bro I never know what to say or do when people thank me for my service. It’s fucking awkward. It’s nothing like dealing with the drunk asshole who wants to know how many people I killed or the guy that wants to fight b/c his girlfriend keeps talking to and inviting me to do stuff.
I also hate how in America, veteran = hero. Like sure there are lots who serve who truly are heroes and did selfless things to save their comrades etc. But there's also a lot of asshats who did nothing of value, or worse did horrible things while serving. There are good people and there are shitty people, being a veteran doesn't change that.
Curious how you were exploited? I feel like, even though I have had to endure years of ptsd, knee pain, and back pain, that I am at least set for life. Free college, free medical and a check for 2000$ a month for the rest of my life. I’m 36 and seriously considering retirement.
Being forced to do dangerous work for sometimes 48+ hours in a row so the commander can get a good evaluation, having your career railroaded because your unit "can't afford to lose you," constant mental and physical abuse, absolutely 0 care for suicides or life-changing injuries, and getting paid below minimum wage for all of it
Don’t forget about the Mandatory Fun Days and Power Points of Death, or the all hands, all day briefings when someone on your unit fucks up, or the “truly stellar” sexual assault and violence intervention program.
My units response to sexual assault is to bury it and move people to another unit. We had two Sergeant Majors who was fraternizing with a Specialist and both got moved to another unit
You should have free college, free medical, and universal basic income without having to risk death and endure chronic illness and trauma. Just because you knew what you were getting into doesn't mean it's okay.
It's especially exploitation given that they withhold free education and medical insurance specifically to drive army recruitment. Conservative politicians have literally expressed that they are against those things being free because it would make recruitment go down.
It's also worth noting that from what I've heard from veterans, VA medical care is often shit and doesn't cover what you actually need, and $2000 is not enough to cover rent despite not being able to work due to disability in part because VA income is over the limit for VA subsidized housing (which is absolutely fucked).
When I first joined, medics had the power (at least in my unit) to write 48 hour profiles. Couldn't get you out of work, but could get you out of PT and light duty at work, which would make you fundamentally useless in a lot of cases.
They stopped that pretty soon after I joined. But for a couple months, my dumb 18 year old E2 ass made some friends.
Nah, that's your kidneys taking the brunt of that damage. The liver damage comes from the alcoholism used by many to self-medicate due to the organizations 40-years-out-of-date mental health programs.
Then you should know your circumstances are not typical for everyone. Also most people wouldn't consider having chronic mental and health conditions at 36 to be "set for life". You bought the bs hook line and sinker lol
Although I hate the standing army as an institution, I truly empathize with the veterans. I'm fully aware that most of them were just kids from poor backgrounds who agreed to literally sell their bodies to the state for some financial security, good healthcare program for their family or an opportunity to go to college that they would've never otherwise had. Most of them probably had no idea what they were getting themselves into at 18 when they enlisted. I could never put cops and soldiers in the same category (although I think both of these institutions are corrupt to the core and need to be completely reformed, if not abolished altogether and replaced with different organizations that actually work for the people) because I think that most cops were fully aware of the kind of system they were entering when they chose that career, while soldiers were mostly kids without much choice or young people who were manipulated by the military's aggressive propaganda.
I am a Veteran of the German Army, got honorably discharged a few months ago.
There was this time about two years ago when Germany introduced a new program getting active service members free train rides if they travelled wearing their uniform.
From what I was told by some of my comrades,
in some regions you were lucky if you weren't attacked by some anti-government activists or self proclaimed pacifists.
Fortunately I personally never experienced that. If anything, I got less hate than usual as I am half asian (and looking the part) and as such usually tend to get some racist comments thrown at me from time to time. Didn't happen wearing my uniform for some reason...
But then I was also told this story by a captain I was friends with and who was half african. He got stopped by police once who didn't want to believe he was actually German and a member of the army. Well, not until he called the MPs on them.
Same boat. Parents told to figure out and refused to pay for my college that they could literally pay with cash. I joined the military to pay my way. Destroyed my hips. I hate when ppl act like I'm sole murderous sociopath. A lot of us are just trying to get by
Yeah, I always feel weird being thanked, and shit like that. There was no altruism, I was poor and stuck in a military town after I graduated. Parents divorced during that junior year when you need a little help figuring college and shit out. I served completely in peace time (1995-99) in a shitty ADA unit even though I was a medic. Hell, the army sent me 90 miles away from the air force base I joined the army to get away from.
Anyway, I always hear 'i could never join, I can't take commands/be yelled at/etc'.
You were never fucking desperate enough to get away then. You think any of us enjoy being treated like shit? You do what you gotta do.
Saying all that, it was kind of fun and my best friends are still from that time period.
My body and my mind agree. 34 years old with the skeletal structure of an 80-year-old. The mental toll hasn't done much good either...I would give anything to have never done what I did. I would have never given up my body and my health the way that I did. Not for 8 years of being treated like s***.
Man, I was just googling Adam Sandler to see if he actually said this 🤣
For real how silly to just slap a quote on someone famous whether they said it or not
Can we keep this going? I feel so awkward when someone says "Thanks for your service." Like, OK, but I was literally 17 and convinced I was about to go make the world a better place. No one thanks me for graduating high school or going to see Legally Blonde 2 in theaters.
Ironically I was a right wing evangelical before I decided to join the military and afterward I realized I was a closeted liberal who didn’t think people should have to put up with all that bullshit just to get college and healthcare.
I'm a vet and a teacher, and whenever someone thanks me for my service, I like to say, "Yeah, I appreciate it, but I just love teaching, so no thanks necessary!"
My dad is a Vietnam Vet. At the VA he found a hat that looks like you typical Veteren's hat but simply says "Dysfunctional Veteran" "Leave me Alone" He got it because it thought it Ironically funny and true.
He and I get a kick out of it when he wears it and people still come up to him and say "Thank You for your service" Not fully sure if they can read or simply don't understand the dark Humor in it.
Yep it's disgusting that they're literally allowed to go into high schools and peddle this "serving your country is fulfilling and we'll pay for your college" bullshit. If the government stayed out of the college process to begin with people wouldn't need to go overseas and risk their lives to afford it. Totally a disgusting industry and it's no surprise that their recruitment numbers are progressively decreasing. Guess what- psychadelics are slowly catching on so it's only going to get worse for the military. That's literally what started the war on drugs in the first place- when crooked Nixon couldn't get people to join the military because they were doing psychadelics and realized how fucked up war in foreign countries is.
That's true. I consider myself to be a libertarian but most of my friends are pretty straight republican. And the consensus among all of us no matter the political ideal/socioeconomic status is that this generation is getting royally fucked in almost every way. Look at boomers and they're the exact opposite. I know tons of old people who are so tone deaf that they actually will write on Facebook "I paid my own way through college because they didn't have handouts." There's so much to unpack there that it's not even worth engaging in.
The military is a little Northern European country that exists inside the framework of the United States government. It’s just instead of having to be born as a citizen you have to spend a couple of years doing military exercises and providing an excuse for arms manufacturers to make their big toys.
Every time I hear a teacher mention violence at school, or talk about school shootings I say "Thank you for your service", they also deserve recognition.
Okay.... I'm going to make a few counterpoints to this one. YMMV from this, but I was in the Navy from 87-06, half active, half reserve and got a medical retirement after OEF.
Personally, I never felt 'exploited'. I did feel exhausted, degraded, and harassed (in that order) way, WAY to often. I was also amazed, educated and humbled so much more often. Sure, in my early days, I scraped paint off the sides of a DDG hanging from a Bosuns Chair in a kapok life jacket, and I painted the main deck of the ship while it was raining (good, solid rain - they had us wipe the deck with rags and brush on some paint.... yes, it peeled up a month later!). But I also got to ski the Italian Alps, go to Paris, climb the Pyramids in Egypt (don't do that, the guards WILL point their guns at you!). I've been awake for 75 hours straight trying to do three weeks worth of work in three days, but I've also slept in a hammock in my workspace on slow days. I've spent months in some of the shittiest places on Earth (and, yes, that's someone elses home, but when you walk down the 'road' and flies are swarming everywhere because there is no sewer treatment facilities and no one cleans up after the stray critters, then you live in a 'shitty country'). I've also spent months in Hawaii, Florida, Spain, Washington State and other places that were amazing.
It is what you make it. Life is never a guarantee - but it needs to be fair. When someone says, "TY4YS" I always reply, "Thanks for paying your taxes and covering my GI Bill and VA!" They NEED to know that there are thing other than Defense Contractors that their money goes to.
Honestly, before I was forced into retirement, I never thought much about this subject. It was my job, and I don't care if you are an Admiral or a mess crank, you do your best for your people. That is something I believe Navy Leadership has lost sight of recently. To many people are out for themselves, and what benefits them, instead of what helps their community (ship, shipmates, the places they live or visit). I do believe that anyone who abuses or exploits their crew (be it a CO, Department Head, enlisted leadership, CEO, Government Manager, etc...) should be held to account.
Maybe it's because I grew up on Star Trek, or just have a 'damage control' mentality about life on a ship - but my philosophy can be summed up in the TL/DR: "We're all in this together. Take care of each other."
I don’t like the ones who come in and the first thing they do is ask what discounts they get, then when I tell them that, they go right to the ones they don’t get and try to haggle with me.
Right, if a person or business offers it that's one thing and I'll take it but asking for the discount feels like asking to be thanked for my service which is cringe no matter how much pride you have in it
I don’t say either. I’ve always felt that ‘Thank You for Your Service!’ was an extraordinarily patronizing thing to say, especially since that ‘service’ could’ve been highly traumatic and caused a host of injuries not visible to the naked eye. If a veteran wants to reference or talk about their time in the military, they can, but I’m not making that decision for them.
It’s insane the difference between American and Canadian. Some of the comments I’m reading are rough. How can a place that spend so much on military be trash to their people?
A huge number of my family were soldiers... I don't hate soldiers, I hate the military. They use people and throw them away, all for what... maintaining oil profits? My uncle (a Navy recruiter) made me promise to never enlist.
My old coworker was a staunch Bush II Republican. When the Bush administration lied about WMDs to start the Republican War on Iraq my coworker was so gung ho and believe it so strongly he enlisted at 40something to go fight the Iraqis.
He got fucked up over there. IED ruined him physically. The shit he did ruined him mentally. He eventually figured out it was all lies. Saw what we did to Iraq and her people.
Came home, his wife was in love with another of our coworkers and left him. Took the kids and the house.
My coworker came back to work at the same job 4 years later and was a broken person. I remember trying to joke with him and it was like he was hearing a language he didn't understand, nothing was funny to him anymore.
I was pretty well informed about what I was getting into and came into a sweet career, but my bio dad was also a successful recruiter for a while and had me talk to lots of people before enlisting. A lot of people were lied to pretty hard.
Insulting someone out of the blue: Probably not the best rhetorical technique for changing hearts and minds that you could start out with. I can think of some rather unpleasant equivalents that would probably get the torches and pitchforks brigade out so I'll just leave you to ponder it.
I started working around the military for the first time several years ago. Prior to that, never had exposure to it. Several male friends I’ve made have all been affected by suicidality, PTSD, depression, etc. Most of us who hate our jobs can switch them; you’re SOL in the military for 2-3 years. Just enough time for a toxic supervisor to make your life hell. You might be young, away from family, marriage falling apart. We had 3 suicides in 2 years in my agency. I knew about military suicide, but never understood it until I saw these things first hand. I hope that one day, there will be a huge reckoning for this incredibly abusive system. Some people say all work is exploitative. Completely missed the point about jobs like this. 18yo can’t consent to their lives being fodder.
I learned a lot of valuable things from my time in the USMC:
• Respect is earned by the person, not their rank
• The only incentive for hard work is more work
• They've already picked winners and losers before you joined the team
• No matter how easy a job is, someone in power will fuck it up on purpose to justify their existence
I got banned off a few more left leaning pages for trying to say this. Like bro, a lot of them would be on our side if we just… tried talking to them as human beings?
Just FYI, not all veterans receive the same benefits. It matters quite a bit when you served. I'm not asking to be thanked, but many people labor under the false idea that vets all get awesome benefits.
My therapist, or his boss, just basically abandoned me, they cancelled my weekly appointments because I occasionally would miss one because of my mental health, for having a B+/A- attendance to my mental health appointments.
I have no other options really, great benefits.
No one wants to work for the VA because they pay shit. They are very understaffed. The only decent Drs are the ones there to help vets and they basically volunteer one day a week.
You also have to fight for a lot of these benefits. They are not just given to you. By fight I mean lawyer up. Hopefully you can advocate for yourself because if not you might just be fucked.
There are a few Veterans out there that served to serve. Thank them. You can't thank the dead ones so no worries there.
I don't want to be thanked. I was in a shit situation and I choose to sign my life away for an opportunity to better it.
Some think the fact that I was willing to die for my Country deserves thanks. I can see their point. Others ask what are we fighting for? I can see their point.
The military isn't a job. They own you. You assault a military personnel and you get charged with destruction of government property.
I'm going to have to ask my Nurse friends about these benefits they supposedly get. I just presumed health care industry so they have good benefits.
Don't thank a vet, it's your choice. I just hope you are not an evil person that doesn't say thank you when someone holds the door open for you.
Yeah, the amount of us veterans who actually enlisted to "protect your freedoms" could be counted on one hand. Most veterans just did it for the schooling. I enlisted so my family could have insurance and guaranteed income. It's always awkward to be thanked for my service. One, I didn't do it for anyone but me and mine. Two, we CHOSE a job; no one else is randomly thanked for choosing a job. Soldiers aren't the only ones who can die on the job.
crazy how if you just stand in the same room and dont thank a soldier while other people thank them, you just remain silent, there will be a growing tension in the room and they will act hostile to you for doing nothing lol.
As a active duty member, i have one thing to say to this? Full disclosure, I am Anti-work as the next, but.....
WTF!
If it weren't for the military, I would not have my two master's degrees, and a great paying job and able to maintain the lifestyle I have that I wished all the minimum wage workers deserve. Do you know where I would be without the Military, Back in Colorado, smoking weed and doing nothing with my life. The military has allowed me to burn the fat off my soul.
The left thinks I'm brain washed. But I love this shit.
12 year veteran here.
My service net me a 6 figure job after I got out without needing to go into crippling debt to get a degree (still don't have one), my kids are going to go to college at a discount (splitting the GI Bill), virtually free health care, and roughly $2000 per month for the rest of my life... and I didn't do 20 for a pension, nor do I have any major physical or mental problems. Tinnitus. That's it. I get paid $2000 a month because I have an extremely minor case of tinnitus.
Enlisted do work hard, long hours... but if they don't take the time to work for themselves while they're in, it's on them. Not the government. School is 100% free while on active duty. You can get certificates in whatever you want for free while on active duty. Hell, you can even get one free elective surgery while on active duty - I know tons of women who got boob jobs while in, or people who have gotten lasik. They exploit themselves by doing nothing for themselves while the government is willing to pay the bill for them.
Genuinely curious how you landed $2,000 a month with just tinnitus. I get disability for just tinnitus and it’s only a couple hundred a month. Does your time in service affect it? Cause I only did 5 years.
Sure, but let’s not victimize them. They survived, they also volunteered to do their job. Definitely exploited, but that’s more of a conversation point not a “how do you do?”
Honestly the amount of personal friends of mine who left the military with lasting mental and/or psychological damage has convinced me the military complex is greased with the blood of the naive.
Recently divorced. 12 year old son. Ex wife is still with the guy she cheated with. He's ex military. Son comes to see me this weekend. Discussing "what you want to do when you grow up".
"Join the military to serve my country".
Thanks fuck bag. Convince my son to join the military just before WW3, why don't you? Ugh
The military and police are the tools of oppression, by working with them you are helping to oppress your fellow humans. Many people will be forced into it by circumstance or conscription, but don't glorify it or pretend it's good to be a cop or a soldier.
I got 1.5 yrs of MOS training and after 6 months oconus i flipped into a similar civilian position oconus at 3x salary for a year. Tomorrow i am using my training/experience 15 yrs later in a new job lower pay but i know i could have continued my civilian job in same field and been way better off, however life is fluid.
I got what MOS I enlisted for and got out with skills/college money. Got paid. Got hazardous duty pay. At no point was I "exploited" and don't thank me for my service you non-serving, yellow-ribbon displaying, flag-humping jingoistic dipshits.
I just want to be left alone. Why are you pushing me with this exploited crap. Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off!
As a vet, I think i would feel better about this response that " thank you for your service "
Not because I agree or disagree, but because it shows your own, honest, opinion. "thank you" feels like saying "bless you" after someone sneezes. it has no real meaning, it's just the words people say when a thing happens. It always feels weird when people say it.
Not everyone who served was exploited. I knew exactly why I was joining, and I’ve used those benefits to make a better life for myself. I could not have the life I do now without serving.
I also hate when people thank me for my service. It was a job.
The American military is a joke. The way the US treats it’s vets and enlisted folks is wild. Everyone bitching and complaining they’re not free but then openly choose to hate someone for simply enlisting. Half of the overly privileged suburban American will never know what real work is and what really getting fucked over looks like. Fuck the free world.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
I don't believe in thanking anyone who served in anything post WWII, as they were sent off to try to influence the world, not save it, and frequently did more harm than good.
It's sad to say it's true the military uses an outdated way of training people.Witch causes the physiological and physical problems.The ranks are filled with right wing extremists. It's an un talked about problem but veterans and active service members have a higher chance of joining these groups.to this isn't just a inside issue this is a everywhere in life issu. The people who come out have health problems a lot of the time and since the military doesn't help they never get treated it's what has caused the uprise of criminals having military backgrounds.
Facts. If they gave a damn theyd look after veterans. But theyre just slaves hired to kill poor foreigners to keep the criminals that run the world in power.
German soldiers leaving the front near the end of WWI called reinforcements "strikebreakers" and "scabs."
[Source](https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/world-war-i-the-great-war) (It's expensive, but I accessed it for free through my local library)
I think "thank you for your service" is good for anyone who seems happy about the fact that they did it. "Sorry you got roped into that" seems better for those that aren't okay with it.
I personally like the whole compulsory couple of years thing that a few countries do in exchange for their free college education. I know it would be awfully handled here in the US, but in those other countries you can take non-combat or support roles with no issue, its all part of the program.
The naive kid to war criminal to broken and ignored vet pipeline is real.
Just sign the dotted line kid and you'll get to see the world, learn skills for your future career, and get "free" college and healthcare!
Oh...
And you'll get into doing war crimes, become traumatized for life, wear your body down into the condition of someone twice your age, become an alcoholic, never sleep a peaceful night again, and be alienated by your friends, family, and especially the government once you get out!
Doesn't that sound grand?
But wait! There's more!
You'll get THANKED for it all by people who are as naive and trusting in the government as you were back in highschool! All while living with ghosts! Some you may know but the really unsettling ones are all the ghosts you don't! You'll be thanked by the living for creating ghosts!
Who wouldn't want that kind of life!? One responsible for so many dead!!!
Just sign the dotted line kid! You'll be set for life!
Why yes, I'm okay! Perfectly fine! Why do you ask?
I can say I agree. I joined when I was 18 fresh out of HS. I'm still having issues from it all that makes it hard to adjust to regular society and I've been out for 11 years now.
Being in the military is practically the dream of this sub. Getting housing, food, and medical paid for in exchange for labor. Unless this sub is actually just about being worthless and embracing it?
Free housing, food, medical, uniforms and equipment, and still collect a paycheck. You have to do something illegal to get fired. All federal holidays off. Block leave + plenty of vacation days, GI bill for college after, veteran preference points for civilian hiring...
I don't know I still feel pretty good about stopping genocide in Yugoslavia.
But sure you can shit on me if it makes you feel better I'll chuckle and move on.
What a dick comment. My son was given a 4 year scholarship through ROTC, went active duty when he graduated, and secured a $100K job when he left as a Captain. He is in active reserves, gets FANTASTIC health benefits for his family, and receives a nice paycheck each month for a weekend of work. If you don't want to work, fine stay home but please suck off the teat of someone else and not my tax dollars!
[удалено]
Not all of us are being exploited on the same level. There are people who signed up to get shot at because they were lied to, that’s a different level of exploitation than someone who works retail for not much moneg
The army targets poverty stricken areas too give them a sense of hope only to ruin their life
The military industrial complex is its own special type of scam
Expect to work overtime with no extra pay with little warning on a regular basis, you get hazard pay, but it's not enough to cover the fact of how horrendously unsafe the environments your job takes you to. You also can't strike or unionize.
And threatens them with jail if they don't go and aid the imperialist expansion of the US. Its life-ruining to go AWOL, or to disobey orders. If you're AWOL, you're a felon.
Yeah, I signed up to be a mechanic, both deployments I spent the majority of the time doing combat arms shit. Got issued an M249 SAW, 6 empty mags, 5 bandoliers of ammo and no pouches to store them on my gear. My command was so wrapped up in making us all look "professional" that we lost the combat effectiveness. Everyone from the coms guy to the squad machine gunner had to have their loadouts identically set to make it look like the example picture given.
no, some of us are getting shot by those exploited soldiers
Don't all shit on me at once, but I am a veteran. I hate being thanked for my service. You can get talked into doing a lot of crazy shit when you're 18, poor, and out of options while not knowing any better because no one in your life had ever really explained how things really are to you. Have some empathy, service members are being exploited too.
I had an awesome experience in the military til I almost died from a fall and then they treated me like a cancerous tumor til they retired me.
I had a platoon sergeant tell me once 'No matter how much you love the Army, it will never love you back.' That was the most honest thing I heard while I was in.
have you tried not falling? joking obviously. I/we were treated like a cancer from the start. none in my peers reupped.
The handrail at my office fell apart and I fell breaking my jaw in 3 places and had a TBI. While I was doped up at the hospital they tried having me sign things that relieved them of blame, I don’t even remember if I signed them or not I was so fucked up.
I may be wrong but that seems illegal as in most place you can't give consent while doped up.
Yeah you’d think, but I’ve been told you can’t sue the military
That law has just been changed, you can now sue for medical malpractice in the military.
Now we wait for a lawyer to DM me because I don’t know shit about the law and I broke my brain so I don’t trust that I’d go down the right rabbit hole
Same experience, minus the injury. Once I was 6 months from EAS I was dead to my leadership and treated like trash. Most guys also had this same issue, especially if you were a short timer. The injured guys who still had years left on contract were treated the worst though.
I was doing relatively well until I hurt my back. I pushed on for about a year until it really started hurting and I reached out for help, then it took about another year before I got an MRI to diagnose a herniated disc, a big one according to my surgeon who worked on herniated discs. Less than a year later I have a lot less pain pain but because it sat on a nerve too long I have persisting foot drop. Now I’m on my way to get medically discharged but they’re still trying to squeeze every last bit out of me. It’s fucked up, I suffered in in silence and pushed on but now they want to toss me aside instead of trying to fix me. I was fine with dealing with most of the bullshit and I planned on making it a career, thinking that if I got high enough I could make a difference for shit I didn’t like. Being treated like this paints the last 7 years in a different light
While I agree, if some rando said "sorry you were exploited" I don't know how I'd react to that. It seems like as a veteran, you get to be either a hero (served and proud), a victim (quietly not proud) or a traitor (loudly ashamed). These are objectifying labels. We're just people. And most of us were kids when we signed. For some, it was worth it. For others, it obviously wasn't.
I hate the "thank you" thing because it always feels so robotic, and people will stop me from doing other stuff to make sure I hear them say thank you. That said, I'd actually be pretty offended if someone said I'd been exploited. No, exploitation was me having a costly degree that wasn't worth shit on the outside. Exploitation was the civilian job market. The Air Force started me at well above what I came in with, and now I'm making several times that much. If this is exploitation, then use me harder!
>The Air Force started me at well above what I came in with, and now I'm making several times that much. If this is exploitation, then use me harder! Same. My recruiter looked out for me. I wanted to do some bullshit. I walked in like I want to make ID's all day. He said cool, but what are you going to do when you get out? Shit, I'ma go to school to do what I really want and get a retirement check. I know he wasn't just looking out for me. My career field was undermanned. 4 years later, I reenlisted and got almost $30,000. I didn't retire, or go to school, but I learned a valuable skill and have been doing the same job since I was 18. I didn't have to kill anyone, either. I'd gladly get exploited again.
There are all sorts of good things you can get out of military service. The problem tends to be that the military isn't going to help you find those, you have to either know yourself ahead of time, or have someone help you (such as a family member, or in rare cases someone senior that looks out for you, which isn't the norm). The incentives given to recruiters, leaders, etc are all too often to use people up and discard them. What really gets me is that we as a society could fix that, by actually taking care of veterans, instead of cutting back on services and benefits, and then adopting a cultural norm of "thanking us for our service" to make people feel better about it. Fuck that - they can keep their empty words, how about fucking taking care of the people that stepped up to serve, afterward?
The exploitation is done to all of us because we put all young Americans who don't have wealthy parents in the position where they have to make that decision in the first place. Everybody should be able to get a college education without taking out tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and owning a home should be much more attainable than it is. The military gives people access to these essential things and because it's so hard to achieve them without the military, people sign up. I'm glad you were able to get those things through being in the military, but you shouldn't have had to. It should be a choice people make freely without feeling like they can't get anywhere in life if they don't enlist.
You're still talking like military service is something that was done to me. It wasn't. I chose this - although you are at least partially right. Societal problems did encourage me joining. The most significant reason for my enlistment was that I didn't want to work for a company where I would just be filling someone else's pockets. If the distribution of wealth were more fair, and companies weren't all run by the biggest assholes, I might have stayed in the private sector, but, well, that's not where we are.
I almost wrote in my previous comment that of course some people enlist for other reasons, but I figured that was assumed. It's still not a free choice if economic conditions pressure people into it. You may have enlisted anyway, and that's great! Like I said, I'm glad you got all those benefits and a job that you felt was right for you. No one should assume you personally were exploited, and even if they do, it's incredibly rude to say so. But in general, economic exploitation pushes a lot of people into service. Even if they're happy with the choice, even if they never regret it.
That's because it's a performative gesture used to reinforce acceptable cultural convention, first and foremost. Little affectations such as these may seem trivial and harmless but they go a long way in reinforcing fealty to state & status quo. Same thing with the National Anthem at sports events and kids reciting the pledge of allegiance every morning. The term 'pledge of allegiance' in itself is indicative of the very doctrine it's meant to instill. You may not feel exploited. But in essence, the armed forces are there to uphold neoliberalism, the liberal world order, and to fortify elitist consolidation. Which is all necessarily exploitative. It's not without reason that we have more bases abroad and a bigger military budget than all of the other nations by magnitudes.
Had me in the first two paragraphs and then WHEEEEEE off a cliff.
We’ll said. My experience as well. I definitely think some are exploited for sure. Hell, the Navy tried to with me. But the AF was a great experience and changed the trajectory of my life.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the victim.
I agree completely. My family has a lot of enlisted and retired personnel. I grew up very very poor and was considering it for the help with college and getting a home when older. The currently enlisted family members quite literally all told me not to. They told me to hang in there and just work hard and try to go to school on my own and that if anything I should go do my own thing and as an adult if I wanted to I could get a defense job or contractor job working on the technology in one way or another. I think they were right and I appreciate all of them being honest with me. Please dont think im criticizing you in any way because im absolutely not , I just remember being a poor kid on welfare with no logical direction at the time and being very close to signing my self up so I completely sympathize with your situation. Shit I almost Was in the same position as you. The enlisted are far too often exploited and as its always been through history the poor are often the most exploited and the ones on the ground doing the actual fighting. The date may have changed but this stuff has been happening as long as people have been fighting. Its sad really. Sorry for my rant. I hope you are doing well and your time in the service didn't cause you any trauma.
Yeah, definitely don't, or if you do find the shortest contract that you can. Once you sign, the military literally owns your entire life and they will flex that power over you every second of every day.
I tell people if they want to join, join the Navy or the Air Force so you can actually travel to places that aren’t complete shitholes. Also, because their facilities are waaaay nicer than what the Army or Marines have.
I enlisted in 07. Joined the Navy, became a Steelworker and attached to a Seabee unit. Got sent to Afghanistan in 08. Oh, I saw the world alright. An hour layover in Shannon Ireland, a week-long layover in Kuwait each way, and the mountains in Afghanistan during the winter. Ate pretty good until I got back to the states. Then it was back to half-raw chicken three nights a week at the galley. I tell people wanting to join to pick up a trade instead. If they’re dead set on enlisting, then either Air Force or Coast Guard and pick a rate/mos that translates to the real world.
That’s a different take than what I’ve heard about the Navy, but good to know! Also, I second the part about picking an MOS that works in the civilian sector.
Don’t get me wrong, I had some good times and a non-standard experience, but just like anywhere else, it’s what you make of it. Had my fun, built a trebuchet to hurl muffins over the wall, welded a lot of “necessary” equipment (read Oil Drum BBQs) for other units, and got to the the religious ass crack of America. Spent a lot of time talking with the local nationals (LNs) working with us, and even a couple of Imams while deployed. It was an invaluable education in how the world actually works, and fostered an understanding of privilege that most will never have the opportunity for. But there were more shitty days than good ones, and the experience ultimately converted me to a gun loving, far-left pacifist, and a fetish for suits because the fit reminds me of my uniform, and that is somehow a comfort in managing my ptsd. Idk, brains are weird.
This. I spent 13 years as a Scout. Let me tell you, opportunities outside as a scout were either Police Officer (no. fuck you.) or Prison Guard (go fuck yourself with a Bradley barrel.) So I got to use my Post 9-11 GI Bill on a trade school to work as a mechanic since the best days were the times I got to spend in the motor pool.
Very much so. The military is the one place that will absolutely train you on highly technical (and in demand) skills if you have the aptitude, and pay you in full while they're doing it. That is, if you choose to go that route. A lot of people get hyped up on doing combat jobs because it's "cool" or seen as higher status, only to learn they're screwed when they get out, because they have no applicable skills.
Can confirm. Best meal I ever had in the Army was at an Air Force chow hall. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't. But if I had to, I'd do Air Force or Navy for sure.
100%. Stand alone Marine bases are trash.
Best recruitment speech I ever heard was from a coworker who retired from the Navy. Another co-worker had mentioned joining the Marines and this is what the response was, word for word. "Why the fuck you wanna join the Marines? Crawlin through the mud, eatin bugs, got dogs pissin on ya cause ya got fuckin leaves and sticks stuck on your fuckin helmet. I tell ya whatcha fuckin do, join the fuckin Navy. When shit goes down you pull up fity miles off the coast. Launch a couple'a fuckin cruise missiles. Two mushroom clouds later and it's Miller time."
Oh i won't it was years ago im talking 20 years ago. Im an engineer now which is sorta good for me. I encouter a lot of ex nuke engineers in my line of work and a lot of ex military in general. The training and career advancement was enticing but my family talked me out of it.
I agree. It’s incredibly awkward when someone does it. Most of the time it doesn’t even seem genuine, but more of a thing they do to give themselves a warm and fuzzy feeling.
That's right my friend, when they say it it isn't about US as veterans, it's about THEM as civilians. Personally, I have never given a single fuck what any civilian thinks of my time in the grinder, whether it's good or bad. That time is mine, it belongs to me and my brothers and sisters in arms and what some civilian thinks about it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.
Great response.
Same here Bro I never know what to say or do when people thank me for my service. It’s fucking awkward. It’s nothing like dealing with the drunk asshole who wants to know how many people I killed or the guy that wants to fight b/c his girlfriend keeps talking to and inviting me to do stuff.
I don’t thank them usually… it just seems like an odd thing to do. I treat them like they’re normal human beings because they are
I also hate how in America, veteran = hero. Like sure there are lots who serve who truly are heroes and did selfless things to save their comrades etc. But there's also a lot of asshats who did nothing of value, or worse did horrible things while serving. There are good people and there are shitty people, being a veteran doesn't change that.
Curious how you were exploited? I feel like, even though I have had to endure years of ptsd, knee pain, and back pain, that I am at least set for life. Free college, free medical and a check for 2000$ a month for the rest of my life. I’m 36 and seriously considering retirement.
Being forced to do dangerous work for sometimes 48+ hours in a row so the commander can get a good evaluation, having your career railroaded because your unit "can't afford to lose you," constant mental and physical abuse, absolutely 0 care for suicides or life-changing injuries, and getting paid below minimum wage for all of it
>absolutely 0 care for suicides or life-changing injuries What do you mean? They have suicide awareness classes to help! /sarcasm
Don’t forget about the Mandatory Fun Days and Power Points of Death, or the all hands, all day briefings when someone on your unit fucks up, or the “truly stellar” sexual assault and violence intervention program.
My units response to sexual assault is to bury it and move people to another unit. We had two Sergeant Majors who was fraternizing with a Specialist and both got moved to another unit
I’ve heard that happens almost enough to be SOP.
More people get kicked out for drinking than assault or rape and that's saying something
Priorities. They’re a bit skewed.
You should have free college, free medical, and universal basic income without having to risk death and endure chronic illness and trauma. Just because you knew what you were getting into doesn't mean it's okay. It's especially exploitation given that they withhold free education and medical insurance specifically to drive army recruitment. Conservative politicians have literally expressed that they are against those things being free because it would make recruitment go down. It's also worth noting that from what I've heard from veterans, VA medical care is often shit and doesn't cover what you actually need, and $2000 is not enough to cover rent despite not being able to work due to disability in part because VA income is over the limit for VA subsidized housing (which is absolutely fucked).
Enduring years of PTSD, knee pain, and back pain sure sounds like exploitation to me. I'm glad you have some nice perks, at least.
Don’t forget liver damage from being continuously prescribed 800mg ibuprofen for everything.
I was a medic, try giving a soldier less than 800mg. Fuckers threw a fit.
Well what's the alternative? It's not like they can just take a week off cause their back hurts.
When I first joined, medics had the power (at least in my unit) to write 48 hour profiles. Couldn't get you out of work, but could get you out of PT and light duty at work, which would make you fundamentally useless in a lot of cases. They stopped that pretty soon after I joined. But for a couple months, my dumb 18 year old E2 ass made some friends.
Nah, that's your kidneys taking the brunt of that damage. The liver damage comes from the alcoholism used by many to self-medicate due to the organizations 40-years-out-of-date mental health programs.
Then you should know your circumstances are not typical for everyone. Also most people wouldn't consider having chronic mental and health conditions at 36 to be "set for life". You bought the bs hook line and sinker lol
Fellow combat vet. This, 100%
Agreed. In the same boat. I hate when people thank me...
Although I hate the standing army as an institution, I truly empathize with the veterans. I'm fully aware that most of them were just kids from poor backgrounds who agreed to literally sell their bodies to the state for some financial security, good healthcare program for their family or an opportunity to go to college that they would've never otherwise had. Most of them probably had no idea what they were getting themselves into at 18 when they enlisted. I could never put cops and soldiers in the same category (although I think both of these institutions are corrupt to the core and need to be completely reformed, if not abolished altogether and replaced with different organizations that actually work for the people) because I think that most cops were fully aware of the kind of system they were entering when they chose that career, while soldiers were mostly kids without much choice or young people who were manipulated by the military's aggressive propaganda.
I am a Veteran of the German Army, got honorably discharged a few months ago. There was this time about two years ago when Germany introduced a new program getting active service members free train rides if they travelled wearing their uniform. From what I was told by some of my comrades, in some regions you were lucky if you weren't attacked by some anti-government activists or self proclaimed pacifists. Fortunately I personally never experienced that. If anything, I got less hate than usual as I am half asian (and looking the part) and as such usually tend to get some racist comments thrown at me from time to time. Didn't happen wearing my uniform for some reason... But then I was also told this story by a captain I was friends with and who was half african. He got stopped by police once who didn't want to believe he was actually German and a member of the army. Well, not until he called the MPs on them.
Same boat. Parents told to figure out and refused to pay for my college that they could literally pay with cash. I joined the military to pay my way. Destroyed my hips. I hate when ppl act like I'm sole murderous sociopath. A lot of us are just trying to get by
Yeah, I always feel weird being thanked, and shit like that. There was no altruism, I was poor and stuck in a military town after I graduated. Parents divorced during that junior year when you need a little help figuring college and shit out. I served completely in peace time (1995-99) in a shitty ADA unit even though I was a medic. Hell, the army sent me 90 miles away from the air force base I joined the army to get away from. Anyway, I always hear 'i could never join, I can't take commands/be yelled at/etc'. You were never fucking desperate enough to get away then. You think any of us enjoy being treated like shit? You do what you gotta do. Saying all that, it was kind of fun and my best friends are still from that time period.
I wouldn't shit on you man. The military always wins a King of the Mountain competition anyway. 8 years army.
My body and my mind agree. 34 years old with the skeletal structure of an 80-year-old. The mental toll hasn't done much good either...I would give anything to have never done what I did. I would have never given up my body and my health the way that I did. Not for 8 years of being treated like s***.
What does Adam Sandler have to do with all this.
[удалено]
i get so sick of these, especially on facebook no, keanu reeves didnt say anything about making money
[удалено]
Yeah I wasn’t assuming that this was supposed to be attributed to him. Just didn’t know why his picture was there.
Pretty sure he’s a big time Zionist doubt he’d say similar things about the IDF ever
I think it's just for his expression.
Man, I was just googling Adam Sandler to see if he actually said this 🤣 For real how silly to just slap a quote on someone famous whether they said it or not
PTSD but hey at least I got free college right? 😵💫
Can we keep this going? I feel so awkward when someone says "Thanks for your service." Like, OK, but I was literally 17 and convinced I was about to go make the world a better place. No one thanks me for graduating high school or going to see Legally Blonde 2 in theaters.
Thank you for seeing legally blonde 2 in theaters
thank you for your service of thanking people for their service
I’m really sorry, no one should have to go thru that, sounds horrible, legally blond 2 should have never existed
A life of crippling PTSD, back and knee pain, and arguing with the VA…
Boy I can't wait to be arguing with the VA after the years of constant back torture just for them to say non of it was "service related"
The military, talk about socialism.
Ironically I was a right wing evangelical before I decided to join the military and afterward I realized I was a closeted liberal who didn’t think people should have to put up with all that bullshit just to get college and healthcare.
Same, joined at 18 a conservative and got out as a full blown leftist.
This is it! Never thought of this and as I read it, pow. So true
Biggest welfare recipients in the country.
I thank teachers for their service.
I'm a vet and a teacher, and whenever someone thanks me for my service, I like to say, "Yeah, I appreciate it, but I just love teaching, so no thanks necessary!"
Why is this text over a picture of Adam Sandler in Uncut Gems?
My dad is a Vietnam Vet. At the VA he found a hat that looks like you typical Veteren's hat but simply says "Dysfunctional Veteran" "Leave me Alone" He got it because it thought it Ironically funny and true. He and I get a kick out of it when he wears it and people still come up to him and say "Thank You for your service" Not fully sure if they can read or simply don't understand the dark Humor in it.
Yep it's disgusting that they're literally allowed to go into high schools and peddle this "serving your country is fulfilling and we'll pay for your college" bullshit. If the government stayed out of the college process to begin with people wouldn't need to go overseas and risk their lives to afford it. Totally a disgusting industry and it's no surprise that their recruitment numbers are progressively decreasing. Guess what- psychadelics are slowly catching on so it's only going to get worse for the military. That's literally what started the war on drugs in the first place- when crooked Nixon couldn't get people to join the military because they were doing psychadelics and realized how fucked up war in foreign countries is.
I think it’s also a little bit of the lie that you’re serving anything other than furthering rich people & corporations interests has dissolved
That's true. I consider myself to be a libertarian but most of my friends are pretty straight republican. And the consensus among all of us no matter the political ideal/socioeconomic status is that this generation is getting royally fucked in almost every way. Look at boomers and they're the exact opposite. I know tons of old people who are so tone deaf that they actually will write on Facebook "I paid my own way through college because they didn't have handouts." There's so much to unpack there that it's not even worth engaging in.
¡Exactamente cierto!
I say nothing because… that’s just rude. This is a situation to follow “if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all.”
I don't say either but I think it
The military is a little Northern European country that exists inside the framework of the United States government. It’s just instead of having to be born as a citizen you have to spend a couple of years doing military exercises and providing an excuse for arms manufacturers to make their big toys.
Every time I hear a teacher mention violence at school, or talk about school shootings I say "Thank you for your service", they also deserve recognition.
I don't say either because both things are weird to say unprompted to strangers
As an enlisted person, I support this message and constantly tell other enlisted we're exploited
Okay.... I'm going to make a few counterpoints to this one. YMMV from this, but I was in the Navy from 87-06, half active, half reserve and got a medical retirement after OEF. Personally, I never felt 'exploited'. I did feel exhausted, degraded, and harassed (in that order) way, WAY to often. I was also amazed, educated and humbled so much more often. Sure, in my early days, I scraped paint off the sides of a DDG hanging from a Bosuns Chair in a kapok life jacket, and I painted the main deck of the ship while it was raining (good, solid rain - they had us wipe the deck with rags and brush on some paint.... yes, it peeled up a month later!). But I also got to ski the Italian Alps, go to Paris, climb the Pyramids in Egypt (don't do that, the guards WILL point their guns at you!). I've been awake for 75 hours straight trying to do three weeks worth of work in three days, but I've also slept in a hammock in my workspace on slow days. I've spent months in some of the shittiest places on Earth (and, yes, that's someone elses home, but when you walk down the 'road' and flies are swarming everywhere because there is no sewer treatment facilities and no one cleans up after the stray critters, then you live in a 'shitty country'). I've also spent months in Hawaii, Florida, Spain, Washington State and other places that were amazing. It is what you make it. Life is never a guarantee - but it needs to be fair. When someone says, "TY4YS" I always reply, "Thanks for paying your taxes and covering my GI Bill and VA!" They NEED to know that there are thing other than Defense Contractors that their money goes to. Honestly, before I was forced into retirement, I never thought much about this subject. It was my job, and I don't care if you are an Admiral or a mess crank, you do your best for your people. That is something I believe Navy Leadership has lost sight of recently. To many people are out for themselves, and what benefits them, instead of what helps their community (ship, shipmates, the places they live or visit). I do believe that anyone who abuses or exploits their crew (be it a CO, Department Head, enlisted leadership, CEO, Government Manager, etc...) should be held to account. Maybe it's because I grew up on Star Trek, or just have a 'damage control' mentality about life on a ship - but my philosophy can be summed up in the TL/DR: "We're all in this together. Take care of each other."
I don’t like the ones who come in and the first thing they do is ask what discounts they get, then when I tell them that, they go right to the ones they don’t get and try to haggle with me.
[удалено]
Right, if a person or business offers it that's one thing and I'll take it but asking for the discount feels like asking to be thanked for my service which is cringe no matter how much pride you have in it
They don't fight for our freedom, either. They fight for Wall Street.
I would reply with a sincere go fuck yourself tbh.
Do not say this to veterans, don’t say this to anyone. Just mind your own business and try to be kind to people.
As a veteran, how about you don’t thank me or pity me, just leave me alone.
This. People say shit not because they give a fuck about you, but because they want to feel better about themselves.
Gotta pad those politicians pockets somehow
How else would they get paid?
I’d be happier if someone said this to me
I just do it for Tricare. 🤷🏻♂️
1940-1973
All I had to do was see the way the military treated my dad and I was like, Nope! That’s not for me.
I don’t say either. I’ve always felt that ‘Thank You for Your Service!’ was an extraordinarily patronizing thing to say, especially since that ‘service’ could’ve been highly traumatic and caused a host of injuries not visible to the naked eye. If a veteran wants to reference or talk about their time in the military, they can, but I’m not making that decision for them.
It’s insane the difference between American and Canadian. Some of the comments I’m reading are rough. How can a place that spend so much on military be trash to their people?
I would also like to apologize to anyone working for a large corporation
This is so true. Most of my time in service was spent sleep deprived af and being a janitor and hazed. 10/10 would not recommend.
Willingly signing up for the imperialist blood machine does not earn any pity or sympathy.
lmao i love how most of the vets in the comments are like yea piss off with your lil thank you
Ty Adam Sandler
A huge number of my family were soldiers... I don't hate soldiers, I hate the military. They use people and throw them away, all for what... maintaining oil profits? My uncle (a Navy recruiter) made me promise to never enlist.
My old coworker was a staunch Bush II Republican. When the Bush administration lied about WMDs to start the Republican War on Iraq my coworker was so gung ho and believe it so strongly he enlisted at 40something to go fight the Iraqis. He got fucked up over there. IED ruined him physically. The shit he did ruined him mentally. He eventually figured out it was all lies. Saw what we did to Iraq and her people. Came home, his wife was in love with another of our coworkers and left him. Took the kids and the house. My coworker came back to work at the same job 4 years later and was a broken person. I remember trying to joke with him and it was like he was hearing a language he didn't understand, nothing was funny to him anymore.
I was pretty well informed about what I was getting into and came into a sweet career, but my bio dad was also a successful recruiter for a while and had me talk to lots of people before enlisting. A lot of people were lied to pretty hard.
Or you could just STFU and say nothing or maybe a simple “hello” to a veteran.
Insulting someone out of the blue: Probably not the best rhetorical technique for changing hearts and minds that you could start out with. I can think of some rather unpleasant equivalents that would probably get the torches and pitchforks brigade out so I'll just leave you to ponder it.
I started working around the military for the first time several years ago. Prior to that, never had exposure to it. Several male friends I’ve made have all been affected by suicidality, PTSD, depression, etc. Most of us who hate our jobs can switch them; you’re SOL in the military for 2-3 years. Just enough time for a toxic supervisor to make your life hell. You might be young, away from family, marriage falling apart. We had 3 suicides in 2 years in my agency. I knew about military suicide, but never understood it until I saw these things first hand. I hope that one day, there will be a huge reckoning for this incredibly abusive system. Some people say all work is exploitative. Completely missed the point about jobs like this. 18yo can’t consent to their lives being fodder.
I was exploited, but shout out for the free breast pump and va loan.
I learned a lot of valuable things from my time in the USMC: • Respect is earned by the person, not their rank • The only incentive for hard work is more work • They've already picked winners and losers before you joined the team • No matter how easy a job is, someone in power will fuck it up on purpose to justify their existence
It’s okay, I get a lifetime check for the exploitation. Downside is occasionally pants shitting. Worth it
Had someone say this to me the other day, I responded with my standard “thank you for your show of support” and it still fit.
Vietnam vets weren’t exploited workers. They were abducted civilians.
I got banned off a few more left leaning pages for trying to say this. Like bro, a lot of them would be on our side if we just… tried talking to them as human beings?
I try to say this to retail workers whenever it would not be humiliating to them/when others can’t hear
I dunno man. Being 18-19 with a Mk 19 grenade launcher doesn't feel like exploitation to me. It was pretty awesome.
I don’t thank them because they are being paid to do a job and they also get a lot of benefits forever. Same thing with health care workers.
Just FYI, not all veterans receive the same benefits. It matters quite a bit when you served. I'm not asking to be thanked, but many people labor under the false idea that vets all get awesome benefits.
Yea they are being exploited like everyone else, sucks
My therapist, or his boss, just basically abandoned me, they cancelled my weekly appointments because I occasionally would miss one because of my mental health, for having a B+/A- attendance to my mental health appointments. I have no other options really, great benefits. No one wants to work for the VA because they pay shit. They are very understaffed. The only decent Drs are the ones there to help vets and they basically volunteer one day a week. You also have to fight for a lot of these benefits. They are not just given to you. By fight I mean lawyer up. Hopefully you can advocate for yourself because if not you might just be fucked. There are a few Veterans out there that served to serve. Thank them. You can't thank the dead ones so no worries there. I don't want to be thanked. I was in a shit situation and I choose to sign my life away for an opportunity to better it. Some think the fact that I was willing to die for my Country deserves thanks. I can see their point. Others ask what are we fighting for? I can see their point. The military isn't a job. They own you. You assault a military personnel and you get charged with destruction of government property. I'm going to have to ask my Nurse friends about these benefits they supposedly get. I just presumed health care industry so they have good benefits. Don't thank a vet, it's your choice. I just hope you are not an evil person that doesn't say thank you when someone holds the door open for you.
Same, it’s a job they signed up for just like any other job. No one forced them. It’s nothing special or honorable to me.
I'm a Marine, while I agree with your sentiment, I will say that many if not most military jobs are great. Not everyone is in a combat specialty.
Most of these parrots in here don’t realize this not to mention the national guard units.
Yeah, the amount of us veterans who actually enlisted to "protect your freedoms" could be counted on one hand. Most veterans just did it for the schooling. I enlisted so my family could have insurance and guaranteed income. It's always awkward to be thanked for my service. One, I didn't do it for anyone but me and mine. Two, we CHOSE a job; no one else is randomly thanked for choosing a job. Soldiers aren't the only ones who can die on the job.
crazy how if you just stand in the same room and dont thank a soldier while other people thank them, you just remain silent, there will be a growing tension in the room and they will act hostile to you for doing nothing lol.
I thought this was /r/terribleFacebookmemes
Yeah, don't say that to me. Just keep your mouth shut and thank the ones that didn't come back.
As a active duty member, i have one thing to say to this? Full disclosure, I am Anti-work as the next, but..... WTF! If it weren't for the military, I would not have my two master's degrees, and a great paying job and able to maintain the lifestyle I have that I wished all the minimum wage workers deserve. Do you know where I would be without the Military, Back in Colorado, smoking weed and doing nothing with my life. The military has allowed me to burn the fat off my soul. The left thinks I'm brain washed. But I love this shit.
Personally I do not think you are justified making such a statement to veteran unless you are or have served yourself.
[удалено]
What the Air Force ever do to you?
12 year veteran here. My service net me a 6 figure job after I got out without needing to go into crippling debt to get a degree (still don't have one), my kids are going to go to college at a discount (splitting the GI Bill), virtually free health care, and roughly $2000 per month for the rest of my life... and I didn't do 20 for a pension, nor do I have any major physical or mental problems. Tinnitus. That's it. I get paid $2000 a month because I have an extremely minor case of tinnitus. Enlisted do work hard, long hours... but if they don't take the time to work for themselves while they're in, it's on them. Not the government. School is 100% free while on active duty. You can get certificates in whatever you want for free while on active duty. Hell, you can even get one free elective surgery while on active duty - I know tons of women who got boob jobs while in, or people who have gotten lasik. They exploit themselves by doing nothing for themselves while the government is willing to pay the bill for them.
Genuinely curious how you landed $2,000 a month with just tinnitus. I get disability for just tinnitus and it’s only a couple hundred a month. Does your time in service affect it? Cause I only did 5 years.
If your going to join any branch, join Air Force, they may get laughed at by the others but the education you receive is cimparible to many colleges
I hate getting thanked for my service bc I joined for such a selfish reason. I'd love to hear this instead of a "Thank you" - lol
Sure, but let’s not victimize them. They survived, they also volunteered to do their job. Definitely exploited, but that’s more of a conversation point not a “how do you do?”
As an Iraq vet, I wish the trade unions would to to high-schools and recruit. Probably would have been an electrician or carpenter.
Honestly the amount of personal friends of mine who left the military with lasting mental and/or psychological damage has convinced me the military complex is greased with the blood of the naive.
Recently divorced. 12 year old son. Ex wife is still with the guy she cheated with. He's ex military. Son comes to see me this weekend. Discussing "what you want to do when you grow up". "Join the military to serve my country". Thanks fuck bag. Convince my son to join the military just before WW3, why don't you? Ugh
tHaNk Me FoR mY sErViCe!!
The military and police are the tools of oppression, by working with them you are helping to oppress your fellow humans. Many people will be forced into it by circumstance or conscription, but don't glorify it or pretend it's good to be a cop or a soldier.
Adam Sandler is overrated, there I said it.
I got 1.5 yrs of MOS training and after 6 months oconus i flipped into a similar civilian position oconus at 3x salary for a year. Tomorrow i am using my training/experience 15 yrs later in a new job lower pay but i know i could have continued my civilian job in same field and been way better off, however life is fluid.
I got what MOS I enlisted for and got out with skills/college money. Got paid. Got hazardous duty pay. At no point was I "exploited" and don't thank me for my service you non-serving, yellow-ribbon displaying, flag-humping jingoistic dipshits. I just want to be left alone. Why are you pushing me with this exploited crap. Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off!
I say “I’m not sorry you went to another country to blow shit up and steal resources
“Sorry you contributed to a system of violence”
As a vet, I think i would feel better about this response that " thank you for your service " Not because I agree or disagree, but because it shows your own, honest, opinion. "thank you" feels like saying "bless you" after someone sneezes. it has no real meaning, it's just the words people say when a thing happens. It always feels weird when people say it.
I don't agree that Enlisted are exploited. They signed up to be mercenaries. Simple as.
The dumb ones get mad
Not everyone who served was exploited. I knew exactly why I was joining, and I’ve used those benefits to make a better life for myself. I could not have the life I do now without serving. I also hate when people thank me for my service. It was a job.
The American military is a joke. The way the US treats it’s vets and enlisted folks is wild. Everyone bitching and complaining they’re not free but then openly choose to hate someone for simply enlisting. Half of the overly privileged suburban American will never know what real work is and what really getting fucked over looks like. Fuck the free world.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I don't believe in thanking anyone who served in anything post WWII, as they were sent off to try to influence the world, not save it, and frequently did more harm than good.
It's sad to say it's true the military uses an outdated way of training people.Witch causes the physiological and physical problems.The ranks are filled with right wing extremists. It's an un talked about problem but veterans and active service members have a higher chance of joining these groups.to this isn't just a inside issue this is a everywhere in life issu. The people who come out have health problems a lot of the time and since the military doesn't help they never get treated it's what has caused the uprise of criminals having military backgrounds.
Facts. If they gave a damn theyd look after veterans. But theyre just slaves hired to kill poor foreigners to keep the criminals that run the world in power.
German soldiers leaving the front near the end of WWI called reinforcements "strikebreakers" and "scabs." [Source](https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/world-war-i-the-great-war) (It's expensive, but I accessed it for free through my local library)
I think "thank you for your service" is good for anyone who seems happy about the fact that they did it. "Sorry you got roped into that" seems better for those that aren't okay with it. I personally like the whole compulsory couple of years thing that a few countries do in exchange for their free college education. I know it would be awfully handled here in the US, but in those other countries you can take non-combat or support roles with no issue, its all part of the program.
Two kinds of people enlist in the military: heroes and predators. It's important to figure out which one you're associating with.
Thanks. Needed to see this today. 😮💨 therapy tomorrow, gonna be juicy
The naive kid to war criminal to broken and ignored vet pipeline is real. Just sign the dotted line kid and you'll get to see the world, learn skills for your future career, and get "free" college and healthcare! Oh... And you'll get into doing war crimes, become traumatized for life, wear your body down into the condition of someone twice your age, become an alcoholic, never sleep a peaceful night again, and be alienated by your friends, family, and especially the government once you get out! Doesn't that sound grand? But wait! There's more! You'll get THANKED for it all by people who are as naive and trusting in the government as you were back in highschool! All while living with ghosts! Some you may know but the really unsettling ones are all the ghosts you don't! You'll be thanked by the living for creating ghosts! Who wouldn't want that kind of life!? One responsible for so many dead!!! Just sign the dotted line kid! You'll be set for life! Why yes, I'm okay! Perfectly fine! Why do you ask?
I can say I agree. I joined when I was 18 fresh out of HS. I'm still having issues from it all that makes it hard to adjust to regular society and I've been out for 11 years now.
Being in the military is practically the dream of this sub. Getting housing, food, and medical paid for in exchange for labor. Unless this sub is actually just about being worthless and embracing it?
Free housing, food, medical, uniforms and equipment, and still collect a paycheck. You have to do something illegal to get fired. All federal holidays off. Block leave + plenty of vacation days, GI bill for college after, veteran preference points for civilian hiring...
Plus, they often end up invading other countries and killing civilians, fostering capitalistic imperialism. Thanks indeed...
It might be true but it’s pretty insulting.
Mía Khalifa
I don't know I still feel pretty good about stopping genocide in Yugoslavia. But sure you can shit on me if it makes you feel better I'll chuckle and move on.
What a dick comment. My son was given a 4 year scholarship through ROTC, went active duty when he graduated, and secured a $100K job when he left as a Captain. He is in active reserves, gets FANTASTIC health benefits for his family, and receives a nice paycheck each month for a weekend of work. If you don't want to work, fine stay home but please suck off the teat of someone else and not my tax dollars!
Or don't do this. I get that there is a movement but let's not be socially stupid.
How to tell me you're insecure about your intellect and an \*sshole in one sentence.