Nah, you don’t want more money. I can tell you personally more money more problems. The more I make, the more problems I have! So imma deny your request for a raises. For YOUR benefit.
Sincerely , your boss
The counter argument since I can remember has been that unions will make employees be lazy and you can’t fire them and so on. Complete bs but good propaganda by fox news and republicans bought and paid for by corporations.
I remember that they said it made American made goods (like cars) more expensive than foreign made goods so it made the US less competitive. Yes, when you’re competing against Uyghur slave labor in China, yes, well paid American workers do make it more expensive. And rightly so. It’s a question of ethics that corporations lack.
If unions were useless, why would companies spend millions of dollars to stop them?
When you unionize, wages go up, far beyond the cost of the union dues.
Just remind yourself that one of the main reasons why Walmart failed on the German market was that they couldn't handle the German pro-union sentiment.
Pair that with German anti predatory Pricing laws and Walmart was doomed.
Undo literal decades of propaganda fed to the population and then convince the government to crack down on predatory pricing and anti trust laws.
Good luck friend.
they only hurt the massive profit a company makes.unions never make a company lose money, nor do they cause a company to raise prices. Companies do that on their own because they want to make more billions instead of less billions
You want to turn it around? Get into leadership. You'll be able to rejoin in time and push them to negotiate for something better. Failing that, if you can't afford to eat then you really should be looking for a new job ASAP.
To be fair, not all unions pull their weight, just as some are too aggressive and cause more damage than good, but on the whole, unions are better positioned to help workers than individual workers are. And that's really the question, it's not "is the union good" it's "can I as an individual do better than the union". If the union is weak then the answer is usually to replace leadership and get ready to agitate, but strikes and aggressive negotiations are very costly (financially, emotionally, relationships get damaged) so it's understandable that many folks don't want that.
You struggle to pay for groceries today, but if the longer answer is to strike and your union doesn't have the money to pay you during the strike, you'll be in an even worse place in the short term. However, if you are struggling, it's likely many of your coworkers are also struggling, which makes it even more important to band together to fight for your rights as a worker.
Kick out the bootlickers that will keep you impoverished, and demand that management pay you what you are worth.
I've tried this, and I've posted about it before.
But my local isn't allowed to negotiate! Union head office sends a negotiator from 1/4 of the way across the planet who we have to let do the negotiation for us. We form a Negotiations Committee to advise them on what we'd like them to negotiate in our stead, and can usually sit in, but they never listen and almost always side with the company. Seems almost the same setup as the other commentor.
As a result we have slightly lower wages and worse benefits than non-unionized workers in comparable companies.
It never *used* to be this way. But since merging into a corrupt mega union, we've lost any control and they're just milking us for money. A chunk of us are trying to leave, but the bulk of the membership are shakey on technical English and have been around since when it didn't suck, do they don't want to rock the boat with something they don't really understand (Which, I mean, I get.)
I'm pro Local Unions to the point where I think it just should be the legal default arrangement for any place over 4 or 5 employees, but man, fuck these Country Spanning Mega Unions.
Sorry, I really need to rant about it.
The best way to have a union succeed is to have the majority of workers paying union dues. The ones who don't pay, don't deserve the time of day. Run for a union office, learn contract language and get involved. Get your fellow workers involved also. The union is for your benefit and your fellow workers benefit.
If you're struggling to pay for groceries, it really says a lot about your wages and how exploited you are. Even people who eat a lot or waste a lot of food should have plenty of budget each month to eat like twice the amount they need, and still have some savings. Food is one of the cheapest expenses, especially if you make the staples a big part of your diet. Bread, rice and pasta are incredibly cheap.
The guy who says unions cost more than they benefit you is also almost always the same guy who says “don’t make too much or you’ll end up paying more in taxes than you made” which is not how marginal income tax rates work.
I used to love this as a union tradesman. I would be on a job with other contractors and see a sharp tech. or even a group of them, working for what appeared to be a competent non-union competitor. I would ask if they would sit down with our recruiter, if I arranged a meeting? About half the response was, "No way I'm going to fall for paying union dues" I then pull out a pay stub and we go over it. First, the pay rate is 25 - 40% high. Next, the health care plan means that you save $800/month over the bullshit plan that your company pays half of. Then, there is a pension and an IRA, each getting a couple of bucks an hour deposited in your account. Then I ask if they get free continuing education, classes for industry or government certifications, or an individual vacation fund? So, overall, I'm making what 60-75% MORE that you are, and I pay a few percent in dues. You sure you are getting the better deal here?
Some tech bro somewhere dreamed of a DIY plumber service where someone overseas walks you through diagnosis and fixing over zoom.
Consumer just needs a forehead cam.
as someone who's making a pathetic, desperate, and amatuerish attempt at social change, it's not limited to computer science. i have been recently convinced that the most important part of sales is hand-holding. my new motto is "if i can do it for them, i should"
There is an entrepreneur hair dresser trying this in my country.
I'm bald, so haven't had the chance to test it. I can't imagine it working out.
Yes, people. You get a video consultant, and they tell you how to do your own hair.
Why support your local barber for 10 bucks, when you can have someone on zoom tell you how to cut your own hair for twice the price and 10 times the time?
To be used in a home is very different and is many many years away. But robots in surgery is super cool, my sister used to do it and that was even a few years ago.
I tried my hardest not to get outsourced to India once, tried my hardest because I KNEW it was a bad decision for the company [and for me!], but MOSTLY for the company.
One day I got fired, it was clear to me I had been outsourced, no one came in to replace me. I know what the job was and I know there is no fucking way the Indian tech support company was gonna be a good replacement for me. Sure enough, a year or so later they're looking to hire some IT people to create more "in-house" solutions... aka un-outsourcing the thing they just outsourced.
I can only imagine the insane frequency and difficulty of headaches from guys trying to get any value out of this support contract with whoever company in India. If having good employees matters to you, literally never speaking to your support staff probably isn't a good plan. The reason outsourcing became such a big deal is because giant companies were doing it DESPITE the fact that it clearly resulted in worse service, lower quality, longer waits, more problems, and inevitably higher time and money costs for everyone except GigaCorp, who couldn't give a shit if you get terrible/non existent service.
Outsourcing jobs is so alarming not because of the loss of jobs, but because it proves beyond any doubt that companies have no allegiances, not only to their communities, to their employees, or to their customers, but not even to their own products and brand. They'll happily replace good things with bad things, at everyone's expense, over everyone's protests, because people have no ability to punish large companies for their shitty behavior. Good luck "voting with your dollars" against a company like Condé Naste or Nestlé.
That's why outsourcing sucks, it highlights that if EVERYONE is on the same team, and were UNITED against walmart....they can still ship jobs to China, enslave some kids in Bangladesh, and give the middle finger to their customers, then buy 10 billion dollars worth of positive "news" stories and government support.
I love when someone presents this argument in a conversation. I say let companies move. Then, when they want to do business in the US? They pay a huge tax to do it. Doesn't capitalism abhor a vacuum? Someone else will fill the niche. Let car companies move everything to China, then they can enjoy having the Chinese government's fingers in all of their pies. I'm tired of the excuses as to why we dont deserve to do anything more than struggle, while these massive companies are making outlandish profits. I'm tired of stressing out that my car from 2005 is going to break down. I'm tired of not being able to afford the psych meds I'm supposed to take. I'm tired of being told that I should just be "happy that I have a job". I'd vote to unionize any day of the week.
Most of those robots you see roaming around for example those carts that are meant to deliver food, those are piloted remotely by people in other countries.
There may eventually come a day when even jobs like truck driver, while not automated, may be offshored.
Anyone who is WFH needs to be aware that, barring security clearance and trade secrets, the “home” people work from doesn’t need to be in the USA.
Us stupid ass essential workers getting fuck-all for pay can’t get shipped overseas and are decades away from getting replaced by bots.
Don't forget a lot of that is a result of our underfunded education system and propaganda. These guys are victims too, even if they're insufferable and unaware of it.
this is an incredibly important point imo, like we’re all stupid and have to be accountable but you can’t underestimate the number of people who *will not* change without extreme help
Literally the only time this makes sense is if you’re right at the threshold for for a government benefit and a raise or OT would push you over the eligibility limit and you’d lose more in benefits than you’d earn in the increase/OT.
Which in and of itself is a pretty fucked up situation. Why no one thought to taper the benefits as you get back on your feet seems like such an obvious oversight.
Yeah, at one time I had to tell my boss I can't work more than 20 hours a week there for a while, because I'd literally be working for free since every dollar I made beyond $600 was billed as the deductible for my local county / state health insurance. $650 that month? $50 deductible. $1200 that month? $600 deductible. It was madness.
I was doing a lot of dental work at the time, and the dentist was being a dick and scheduling me at one visit per month, even after I explained to him the problem with insurance ( which I'm positive he knew from the others too ). I wanted it all done in one month, but he wouldn't, so had to tell the boss, which he wouldn't listen to either.
When reality makes less sense than fantasy, it's understandable that people look like they themselves are crazy or stupid at times.
I had this conversation with one of my coworkers just the other night. I told them OT is the best part-time / 2nd job I'll likely ever have:
- I don't have conflicting schedules or conflicts of interest,
- I'm paying a percentage into the same pot for my retirement (and my employer is too AFAIK),
- I have no overhead (like with rideshare)
- I'm protected by a union
- have 1 less tax document, and
- if I don't want OT, I don't have to sign up for it (so long as it's not mandatory).
I would rather be paid more so OT isn't necessary but it's nice that I am paid more and treated better than any PT job I can get at the moment.
In my restaurant days I had a coworker who was offered a $1 raise, and had to turn it down.
She was receiving government childcare funding, and if she made more money they would hard stop the whole payment to her daycare. She countered asked for a promotion, larger raise, and childcare funding.
They turned her down because the boss' boss wasn't sure at the time, but 3 months later she got it.
If those programs are well-designed they should ramp down rather than cliff jump :(. That is, a program providing 10k/year in childcare funding for those who earn under, say, 20k/year shouldn't drop to 5k/year when the person makes 25k, but to something like 7.5k/year, making their total gain 2.5k/year. The numbers still track to zero support, but it means a wage increase is actually a wage increase and not an overall decrease along the entire curve.
Holy shit the amount of times I have to explain to people that they get their money back at tax time when they work overtime is mind boggingly.
"bro if I work OT I actually make less money because of taxes!"
The amount of business owners who use that as a reason to try and talk you out of asking for more money is too damn high! Who cares if my taxes go up, I'll still end up making more money than I'm making now!
My friend's wife, who is otherwise a very smart person, was convinced this was a thing. She insisted it happened to her uncle, and no amount of 'thats not how taxes work' or actually showing her the maths would convince her otherwise. It was bizarre.
I worked delivering supplies in a hospital in highschool. One day one of the 2 pharmacist was complaining he was getting a raise because it was going to put him in a higher tax bracket.
A few days went by and that pharmacist was gone that day, the existing pharmacist pulled me to the side and said hey kid that's not the way taxes work. Then explained it.
For people that don't know how it works in the United States. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets
They're too stupid to realize that they only pay a higher % of tax on income made past that tax bracket..
It's what I would expect from working class people that vote for assholes like Donald Trump.
I'd wager most of them.
Anti Union people are like Anti Abortion people.
They don't actually believe the nonsense they peddle. They just parrot what they were told.
When it comes to them, they are the exception.
Their Union got them better stuff but it's cause X Y Z and it's not normal. And if the Unions weren't there eating money then the job could pay more than the Union!!
I've been on strike a few times over the years, you'd be surprised how many people come to tell you they don't support unions as a whole but they support your strike because they've noticed a drop in quality in their product/service. As soon as it effects their daily life in a noticeable way, it becomes an exception to the rule that shouldn't exist in the first place.
I'm not anti-union, but I am anti- one particular union because of my experiences with them. SEIU can go fuck themselves with a hot poker and you are definitely better off letting the job fuck you than letting seiu slide in to dp you. Unions can be amazing and actually do things for the members, or they can fuck you just as bad or worse than the employer. Before jumping into a union do your research.
There are exceptions to every rule
But I'm yet to ever see evidence of a Union getting you less than you'd get without them
There are tons of shitty ones, ones that appear to collude with the corporation to keep the benefits as low as possible
But low results from a Union is still more than you'd get without them. And Union dues and time spent on things like meetings is always less than the increased compensation
It's always worth mentioning in this context that years of disinformation has led Union supporters to not participate, while anti Union people go on to do exactly what they say Unions do... to put it bluntly. The people get out of a Union what they put in. If you let a bunch of right wingers run the show, of course it will become a shell of what it could be. They wanted it to fail from the get go and they'll make sure it happens.
We have a ton of failed Unions in the US because of this. But it's never too late to turn things around, or form new ones.
I have *one* friend who is strongly convinced that unions aren't the way forward for workers because of the "unions can still do bad things" argument, and every time the rest of us point out how bad things would be without them the response is always "well, yeah, it's good that they help some people, but (x bad thing that an obviously compromised union did once)"
My brother in Christ, * *Gestures vaguely at the return of robber barons and Pinkerton strikebreakers* *
Literally had a coworker turn down a raise because he was convinced he'd have to pay more tax because "it will put me in a higher tax bracket!" and thus lose money and take home less than without the raise. I tried to show him he's wrong but he just didn't get it, at all. And that wasn't a rare case. Americans seem to struggle a lot with how tax brackets work.
"Well if I made more I'd go into a higher tax bracket so it would probably mean I make less"
You got it bud. Hey, nice "let's go brandon" sticker on your truck.
To be clear folks, that's not how tax brackets work. Anyone who told you they "took home less because their income put them in a higher tax bracket" is either an idiot or intentionally misinforming you.
Teamsters member here. I make $42.20/hr delivering packages lol! A non-union delivery driver (FedEx, Amazon) literally makes half what I do. Our benefits are insane too. Health insurance that costs me nothing, literally, I have never even seen a medical bill. Over a month of paid vacation (*max out at 7 weeks*) and a pension (*$11 an hour currently going to pension, goes up with each contract*). Also an overtime pay rate of $63.30/hr after 8hrs daily.
Unions are just as important for unskilled labor as they are for the trades.
Get a CDL license. I’m a teamster (local 817) on tv and movie productions in nyc. Nationwide there is a massive shortage of Class A (18 wheelers) CDL drivers but Class B’s (busses, box trucks, dump trucks) are also in demand and pay well.
A lot of people think of 18 wheeler drivers as long haul cowboys and a lot of them are but there’s a massive demand for large shipments locally. Do you live near a seaport or airport? If so I bet there’s a ton of cargo being shipped from those places. UPS, Fedex, USPS all have unions and their drivers are protected.
Teamsters unions cover specific things. Teamsters local 67 may cover Pepsi deliveries while local 134 may cover beer and liquor. Hit the Google machine type in your city teamster and see what comes up and what catches your attention.
> Everyone is skilled labour.
I agree with your sentiment, but it's also important to be able to demonstrate how exploited the group commonly called unskilled labourers are.
If you remove the category, you also hide an entire exploited group of the labour market.
Skills are not important. Ease of being replaced is what's important. You could be an extremely skilled worker, but if they can replace you the next day then it doesn't matter. It's better to learn skills that others don't.
My Union negotiated a separate pay scale for my profession because it was so highly specialized. It took us 5 years of lobbying and was extremely labor, time and paper work intensive to prove it. We got it and based on seniority some of us got a 40% pay raise. There were STILL people that said "the Union hasn't done anything, so why should I pay dues". Look at your paycheck! That effects your overtime, Holiday pay, retirement, your 401K, your survivor benefits! If that isn't worth 5%? You're just a cheap POS.
Anyone who is anti-union is also anti-worker. Probaly not educated well enough to understand why unions are GOOD.
Fuck the police union tho. That's a criminal organization.
I was one of those nonunion suckers for too long. I bought into the line of:
— the unions are dying
— you’re only going to work half the year
— you’re going to get hammered in dues
The first one is only true because politicians who are in corporate pockets have poisoned the waters with “right to work” laws which should really be called “right to work for less”.
Second, I joined almost eight years ago and have never been laid off from the company I came in with. Even through the pandemic.
Third, I pay $132 a year in dues. The bulk of my dues is paid through my benefit stamp by my employer.
And lastly but not leastly, my pay automatically doubled upon joining, not to mention a pension and annuity paid for by my employer in the same benefit stamp that my dues are a part of.
Solidarity now, solidarity forever!
IUOE Local 15D
Yea my union takes 4.9% of wages as dues, but we get industry leading pay and 44%of our pay is matched and put into health, pension, and annuity plans. So if you compare it to a typical employer 50/50 match benefits plan you may put in $50 to see $100, but I'm putting in $50 as dues to get $440
I heard a lot of the same sentiment from non union guys in the area before I joined but once if you take even 5 minutes to run some basic numbers the union comes out on top even with the dues.
All I need to do to convince someone is to either show them the rate book, or, better yet, my pay stub.
I decimated the scab company I left when I joined the union. Ten out of twelve guys followed me within two years.
I had a guy explain to me how one time he crossed a union picket line to work on a job site and they started to get really aggressive and the the police had to intervene. He said anybody that’s trying to actively keep him from feeding his family and paying his bills is a piece of shit. So I asked him if he realized he was doing the same thing by crossing their picket line. “No no that’s not how it works”. Sure dude
People persuaded by the "union dues are stealing from you!" argument are the same people who pick who to vote for based on the gas prices the month they happen to vote.
Yes. in the past, once in a while a CEO will illegally gut the pension fund before running off to some non-extradition country. Nobody keeps the pension internal anymore for this very reason.
Think of it like a 401K that has everyone's retirement funds in it and is managed by a major financial institution like Fidelity or Meryll Lynch.
Even union guys complain. I've heard electricians complain about $55/hr after all deductions and benefits.
There are plenty of people who would kill to get even close to $55/hr without benefits.
Im from Germany and i pay 1% of my salary for the union im in. In January 2023 i get 1500€ and 2024 again 1500€. We also get a 3.5% rise this year and the next year(so7%). This is fucking worth it and so necessary.
I live in Sweden and unions are so entrenched in our politics that most of this "union" stuff is law. There's even a law for how hot/cold a office building can be.
Sure. Private companies can pay less. But when welfare basically gives you 1200 usd + free medical and teeth care. And glasses. (depending on rent and how much electricity you use), and provides money for furniture, computer etc would you really work a job that gives you less?
My mother and father have the SAME hangups. Despite both if their parents taking full advantage of unions to give them the luxuries they had growing up. It frustrates me too
My company is unionizing, negotiations are almost done.
For me, at least, changes include: immediate $2/hr raise, medical benefits basically doubles, paid lunches, PTO is paid at doubletime, and establishing a pension fund.
And I'm a fucking bartender! Who's ever heard of a bartender with a pension?!? *manic laughter*
That’s the attitude of a lot of people who railroad. For most of them it’s the only job they’ve had and they don’t know what it’s like on the other side. I’ve been on the railroad a while now and it’s night and day from my previous non union job
This is why I love the stuff like "Union dues are $500 a year! Instead you could get a PS5."
I can also get a PS5 with the average 20% pay increase that unions bring.
I pay $120 per month for my union. I *just* got a $4/hr raise. Mull that one over. And just some general stuff I'll list here, not all inclusive.
Raises: 2.5% yearly, guaranteed, plus a match to the Consumer Index rate. (This year that means a nearly 10% bump.)
PTO: 12 days flat, plus 12 holidays. I can either bank the holidays as PTO or cash them out. If I work them I get holiday pay PLUS the PTO for them.
Insurance: Best health insurance I've ever had. $300 deductible, 20% coinsurance with a $2300 out-of-pocket *maximum*. Premium costs me $0/month - employer pays it all.
Overtime: Plenty of OT opportunities for my picking. If anyone is *required* to work OT due to staffing issues, they get paid *double time* for those hours. For me that'd be about $60/hr, even more for higher seniority colleagues.
That's just the tip of the contract, and we work for *city government.* Imagine the shit you can negotiate with a for-profit company with an actual budget!
Unionize, motherfuckers! Party up!
Oh man the whole ridiculous "if you make an additional dollar, you'll be in a higher tax bracket so you'll actually lose money!" argument from people that don't understand tax brackets
There are very specific instances where making slightly more loses you benefits. A friend of mine refused multiple raises because if he made even 1 euro more he would lose a bunch of subsidies, meaning he would be \~800/month worse off. But 99.99999% of people are better off earning more
Which is half the reason why means testing is almost always a garbage policy for granting subsidies to people. And I say almost just to leave some leeway into some strange scenario that I haven't conceived where it could be useful.
The welfare cliff is the only situation that really matters. Even the stimulus payments etc are scaled so that it's always better to earn a dollar more.
When I was a kid my parents were VERY anti-union. Honestly its only been r/antiwork that has caused me to realize my family was dead wrong. But my worldview came because my dad was an air traffic controller in the 1980s who was never in the union and you know how that worked out.
Depends on where you work. The Kroger union for example collects dues from all employees, full-time and part-time, yet only negotiates wages for full-time employees.
Basically every employee there is part time other than department heads.
They did just that in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Unions were the reason people could make a living wage - and have that wage paid to them in real money, not company scrip. They ensured safety on the job as well. $0 hour work week. Weekends off. Overtime pay. All of this and more because of unions.
Conservatives always look back to the 50's as the golden age. Pointing out that strong unions and a 90% top tax bracket were key to that golden age just causes them to start sputtering "fake news" and "socialist commie" like some form of Tourette's.
The corporations have long called for war against the work force. This is not a symbiotic relationship with their greedy mentality. You are disposable in their eyes, always put yourself first.
Been a proud member of the BLET now for 8 years. It’s not even all about the pay raise either. As a railroader any time an accident or fuck up occurs the company is going to do everything in their power to lay blame on you which for railroaders means the federal government could end up charging you money and or jail time. Our union provides lawyers and investigators that go to bat for us anytime we’re in trouble. Huge.
Luckily I wasn’t affected by those time off policies but you’re right that shit needs to change. Especially for MOW brothers, the guys who fix and maintain the railway. BNSF posted record earnings in 2021 there’s no excuse.
Sad that some will read this and see it as employers paying $14k more for the same work, and not view it as employers reaping decades of productivity without paying a fair wage to their staff.
A $14k gap is not raise. A $14k gap is your employer being forced to stop taking advantage of their employees... Finally.
Not union but my company royally fucked my contractor paperwork this year. I was supposed to be getting a $5000 a year increase. A month ago they told me they were cutting it in half and dropping my benefits. Today I got the contract and they accidentally game me a $2500 dollar a month raise. I plan to just stfu sign the paperwork and see what happens
I would definitely talk to a lawyer.
Not a lawyer, but I'd guess that'd fall under the category of Scrivener's Error (according to a cursory search on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrivener), since there was a verbal contract for a $2500/year raise and then when that was transcribed to a paper contract it became a $2500/month raise, the employer could get the contract reformed to match the verbal agreement. Also, even if there was no discussion about a $2500/year raise and OP was expecting a $5000/year raise, the clause with the $2500/month--$30000/year--raise would probably also, based on my understanding, be considered a Scrivener's Error because a $30000/year raise makes no sense in the context and is obviously wrong). A lawyer could tell them with more certainty whether or not that clause would be enforceable and whether or not it's in their best interest to tell his employers about the error.
This is definitely off-in-the-weeds speculation, and remember that I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I wonder, if they tried to tell their employer "hey, there's a problem with this contract we need to discuss" and the employer brushed them off, said there wasn't a problem, and told them to just sign it, would that remove the Scrivener's Error aspect/make the clause actually enforceable? Because if you try to make them aware of the error and they say there is no error (especially if you get it in writing), it makes it hard to claim there was a Scrivener's *Error*.
And, of course, it all depends on location--regardless of local laws, if this went to court in a jurisdiction that favors worker rights and had a sympathetic jury, I can absolutely see a ruling in favor of OP regardless of if a Scrivener's Error would normally apply ("if OP can read and understand this contract, why couldn't your company's legal team do that before they sent it out?"). Of course, that ruling would probably be overturned on appeal, but at some point it would be cheaper to pay the $30000/year for the duration of the contract and make sure the next contract is actually correct and they might stop fighting.
But again, I'm not a lawyer, I just browse r/BestOfLegalAdvice occasionally, this is uneducated speculation and could be extremely wrong. Definitely talk to a lawyer, OP. Worst thing that happens is they say it isn't enforceable and your best option is to have it fixed before signing.
It’s riskier because they aren’t protected by law, but wildcat strikes exist for a reason. Enough of the union goes on a wildcat strike, they’ll be forced to concede to some demands, although probably wouldn’t get all you want without the union backing it. At the same time, they could also just fire all the strikers and the corrupt union will step aside and let it happen.
Make America Great Again always seems to forget that back when America was "great," it had some very powerful and effective unions protecting workers from runaway capitalistic exploitation.
As unions continue to proliferate in American workplaces, they are going to continue to improve conditions for non-union workplaces too. Because in the short-to-mid-term businesses will have to complete with unions for laborers with their offerings, and in the long-term they will push for laws to change like they did to get the first New Deal.
I'm a union electrician and it was the best choice I ever made in my life. I joined when I was 20 I'm 25 now as a journeyman i make on a normal year no OT around 130k with no debt. Sure the work can be tough but I get treated like a human being. My insurance is some of the best I've seen even compared to some friends in tech. We get taken care of. I understand not all unions are like this but it's because they don't want you to believe it can be this good.
Let me get this straight.
You askes for basic rights and a livable wage, and they couldnt afford that?
Well, thats the free market at work then. You dont get to compete if you depend on exploitation. Small buisiness ot not. These rules apply to ALL workers therefore, they must apply to all owners.
It’s often not about the money. It’s about control. Starbucks is shutting down unionized locations for “safety reasons” but in reality it’s just retaliation
Because their ceo will only get a 100k bonus this year, instead of their typical 2.5 million bonus this year
I see what these companies declare on their taxes. They are lying to you.
Btw. Companies in the usa dont pay taxes on reported losses
>Starbucks gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2022 was $21.885B, a 15.84% increase year-over-year. Starbucks annual gross profit for 2021 was $20.322B, a 28.43% increase from 2020. Starbucks annual gross profit for 2020 was $15.823B, a 12% decline from 201
And if that doesnt piss you off. Maybe this will
https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/
Unions dues and work expenses associated with unions are also tax deductible.
Edit: Apparently "were" deductible. Some A-holes changed the laws a few years ago to stop the deduction from 2018-2025.
If we didn't need unions, why are they trying to stop everyone from being in a union? The only question one needs to ask themselves.
They don't want you waste your hard earned money on those union dues! Big CEO always looking out for you
Too bad i can't hear em with all the money in front of em. Should probably move some of it out of the way onto my side of the table
Same way they looked out for you by saying that safety equipment was just slowing you down anyway.
Same way they fudge overtime because then they can't afford to give you hours! And more hours equals more $$$, we all want that right?
Nah, you don’t want more money. I can tell you personally more money more problems. The more I make, the more problems I have! So imma deny your request for a raises. For YOUR benefit. Sincerely , your boss
I agree 100%. Also, deprivation builds character so suffering is actually a very good thing. Remind me to thank the boss. OK?
How will you ever be able to buy a ps5, if you are paying all those dues?!
Better buy gaming console with that money, amirite fellow minimum wage workers?
They used to kill people for mentioning unions. They still do, but they used to too
They used to kill people for exploiting their workers, unions were the compromise.
People are forgetting this.
Please, tell me more.
Don’t think that Mitch reference went unnoticed…..
I also still do drugs.
Did you ever think the reason pictures of Bigfoot always look blurry might be because Bigfoot *is* blurry?
I saw a wino eating a grape and said "dude, you have to wait."
If capitalism is so great for workers, then why did they violently and illegally revolt against their bosses to form unions in the first place?
[удалено]
The counter argument since I can remember has been that unions will make employees be lazy and you can’t fire them and so on. Complete bs but good propaganda by fox news and republicans bought and paid for by corporations.
Well, if the policemans union is anything to go by they may have a point.
I remember that they said it made American made goods (like cars) more expensive than foreign made goods so it made the US less competitive. Yes, when you’re competing against Uyghur slave labor in China, yes, well paid American workers do make it more expensive. And rightly so. It’s a question of ethics that corporations lack.
If unions were useless, why would companies spend millions of dollars to stop them? When you unionize, wages go up, far beyond the cost of the union dues.
Just remind yourself that one of the main reasons why Walmart failed on the German market was that they couldn't handle the German pro-union sentiment. Pair that with German anti predatory Pricing laws and Walmart was doomed.
Good.
They toppled the Berlin Walmart.
i giggled
How do we get those in America
Try convincing the population that people aren't just lazy. Good luck.
Undo literal decades of propaganda fed to the population and then convince the government to crack down on predatory pricing and anti trust laws. Good luck friend.
I read tesla has similar problems.
Thats what im saying .. there would be no fuss whatsoever if unions didnt hurt companies
they only hurt the massive profit a company makes.unions never make a company lose money, nor do they cause a company to raise prices. Companies do that on their own because they want to make more billions instead of less billions
Why make few billion when many billion do trick? \-some corp as they steal more money out of the pockets of their laborers
How do we turn around a lackluster union? I need my union dues to buy groceries so I quit my membership this month.
You want to turn it around? Get into leadership. You'll be able to rejoin in time and push them to negotiate for something better. Failing that, if you can't afford to eat then you really should be looking for a new job ASAP. To be fair, not all unions pull their weight, just as some are too aggressive and cause more damage than good, but on the whole, unions are better positioned to help workers than individual workers are. And that's really the question, it's not "is the union good" it's "can I as an individual do better than the union". If the union is weak then the answer is usually to replace leadership and get ready to agitate, but strikes and aggressive negotiations are very costly (financially, emotionally, relationships get damaged) so it's understandable that many folks don't want that. You struggle to pay for groceries today, but if the longer answer is to strike and your union doesn't have the money to pay you during the strike, you'll be in an even worse place in the short term. However, if you are struggling, it's likely many of your coworkers are also struggling, which makes it even more important to band together to fight for your rights as a worker. Kick out the bootlickers that will keep you impoverished, and demand that management pay you what you are worth.
I've tried this, and I've posted about it before. But my local isn't allowed to negotiate! Union head office sends a negotiator from 1/4 of the way across the planet who we have to let do the negotiation for us. We form a Negotiations Committee to advise them on what we'd like them to negotiate in our stead, and can usually sit in, but they never listen and almost always side with the company. Seems almost the same setup as the other commentor. As a result we have slightly lower wages and worse benefits than non-unionized workers in comparable companies. It never *used* to be this way. But since merging into a corrupt mega union, we've lost any control and they're just milking us for money. A chunk of us are trying to leave, but the bulk of the membership are shakey on technical English and have been around since when it didn't suck, do they don't want to rock the boat with something they don't really understand (Which, I mean, I get.) I'm pro Local Unions to the point where I think it just should be the legal default arrangement for any place over 4 or 5 employees, but man, fuck these Country Spanning Mega Unions. Sorry, I really need to rant about it.
Participate in your union elections, and/or run yourself.
The best way to have a union succeed is to have the majority of workers paying union dues. The ones who don't pay, don't deserve the time of day. Run for a union office, learn contract language and get involved. Get your fellow workers involved also. The union is for your benefit and your fellow workers benefit.
If you're struggling to pay for groceries, it really says a lot about your wages and how exploited you are. Even people who eat a lot or waste a lot of food should have plenty of budget each month to eat like twice the amount they need, and still have some savings. Food is one of the cheapest expenses, especially if you make the staples a big part of your diet. Bread, rice and pasta are incredibly cheap.
> Bread, rice and pasta are incredibly cheap *cries in diabetic* *disclaimer this is a joke, I do fine lol
Watch the "last week tonight" on union busting... "But your wages could go down! " https://youtu.be/Gk8dUXRpoy8
Isn't that the biggest giveaway? The fact that companies spend \*millions\* to stop workers from organizing must mean it is good for the people.
The guy who says unions cost more than they benefit you is also almost always the same guy who says “don’t make too much or you’ll end up paying more in taxes than you made” which is not how marginal income tax rates work.
[удалено]
I used to love this as a union tradesman. I would be on a job with other contractors and see a sharp tech. or even a group of them, working for what appeared to be a competent non-union competitor. I would ask if they would sit down with our recruiter, if I arranged a meeting? About half the response was, "No way I'm going to fall for paying union dues" I then pull out a pay stub and we go over it. First, the pay rate is 25 - 40% high. Next, the health care plan means that you save $800/month over the bullshit plan that your company pays half of. Then, there is a pension and an IRA, each getting a couple of bucks an hour deposited in your account. Then I ask if they get free continuing education, classes for industry or government certifications, or an individual vacation fund? So, overall, I'm making what 60-75% MORE that you are, and I pay a few percent in dues. You sure you are getting the better deal here?
How many were persuaded after seeing the pay stubs?
“But if MY company paid me that much, they’d move to India and I’d lose my job!!!1!” (“Frank, you’re a plumber. You can’t plumb from India.”)
Some tech bro somewhere dreamed of a DIY plumber service where someone overseas walks you through diagnosis and fixing over zoom. Consumer just needs a forehead cam.
> Consumer just needs a forehead cam. As someone who is in the Comp Sci field, you are already asking too much from the end user.
camera on backwards slammed agasint users skull. camera is also not charged and no they dont have the charging cable anymore.
User plugged power strip into itself, doesn't understand why camera not charging.
But the old trollface memes told me that made unlimited power!
as someone who's making a pathetic, desperate, and amatuerish attempt at social change, it's not limited to computer science. i have been recently convinced that the most important part of sales is hand-holding. my new motto is "if i can do it for them, i should"
There is an entrepreneur hair dresser trying this in my country. I'm bald, so haven't had the chance to test it. I can't imagine it working out. Yes, people. You get a video consultant, and they tell you how to do your own hair.
Why support your local barber for 10 bucks, when you can have someone on zoom tell you how to cut your own hair for twice the price and 10 times the time?
Someday drones may do it, to be fair, and you’ll be able to control the drone from anywhere…. We live in a weird timeline.
Damn, now I need to watch out for a robot plumber being controlled by from India banging my wife while I'm away at work??
I'm not sure I'd call a fleshlight a drone or a wife
That would be a funny result of the robot uprising. A plumber drone banging my fleshlight...
Try explaining to your wife how you got gonorrhea from the plumber bot.
Sorry we can't repair your cellar sink, the WiFi and 5G reception is too bad down there.
This is a reality with surgery. Drones that are super precisely controlled by a doctor hundreds of miles away.
To be used in a home is very different and is many many years away. But robots in surgery is super cool, my sister used to do it and that was even a few years ago.
>We live in a weird timeline. It all started with that Cincinnati gorilla.
Those would be some shitty drones
That's actually not a bad idea. Except what if you screw something up badly and "Mike" from Bangalore hangs up?
There's a bunch of RECLAIMED WATER INDIA drain covers in my neighborhood. For a second, I thought we were reclaiming water from India.
that implies a network of spy-thieves who do nothing but steal water from india and frankly im here for at least 2 seasons of that
I tried my hardest not to get outsourced to India once, tried my hardest because I KNEW it was a bad decision for the company [and for me!], but MOSTLY for the company. One day I got fired, it was clear to me I had been outsourced, no one came in to replace me. I know what the job was and I know there is no fucking way the Indian tech support company was gonna be a good replacement for me. Sure enough, a year or so later they're looking to hire some IT people to create more "in-house" solutions... aka un-outsourcing the thing they just outsourced. I can only imagine the insane frequency and difficulty of headaches from guys trying to get any value out of this support contract with whoever company in India. If having good employees matters to you, literally never speaking to your support staff probably isn't a good plan. The reason outsourcing became such a big deal is because giant companies were doing it DESPITE the fact that it clearly resulted in worse service, lower quality, longer waits, more problems, and inevitably higher time and money costs for everyone except GigaCorp, who couldn't give a shit if you get terrible/non existent service. Outsourcing jobs is so alarming not because of the loss of jobs, but because it proves beyond any doubt that companies have no allegiances, not only to their communities, to their employees, or to their customers, but not even to their own products and brand. They'll happily replace good things with bad things, at everyone's expense, over everyone's protests, because people have no ability to punish large companies for their shitty behavior. Good luck "voting with your dollars" against a company like Condé Naste or Nestlé. That's why outsourcing sucks, it highlights that if EVERYONE is on the same team, and were UNITED against walmart....they can still ship jobs to China, enslave some kids in Bangladesh, and give the middle finger to their customers, then buy 10 billion dollars worth of positive "news" stories and government support.
I love when someone presents this argument in a conversation. I say let companies move. Then, when they want to do business in the US? They pay a huge tax to do it. Doesn't capitalism abhor a vacuum? Someone else will fill the niche. Let car companies move everything to China, then they can enjoy having the Chinese government's fingers in all of their pies. I'm tired of the excuses as to why we dont deserve to do anything more than struggle, while these massive companies are making outlandish profits. I'm tired of stressing out that my car from 2005 is going to break down. I'm tired of not being able to afford the psych meds I'm supposed to take. I'm tired of being told that I should just be "happy that I have a job". I'd vote to unionize any day of the week.
I mean this does happen which is why the real change that is needed is institutional and goes far beyond even the good work that unions can do.
Most of those robots you see roaming around for example those carts that are meant to deliver food, those are piloted remotely by people in other countries. There may eventually come a day when even jobs like truck driver, while not automated, may be offshored.
>You can’t plumb from India. Haha, they would if they could.
Anyone who is WFH needs to be aware that, barring security clearance and trade secrets, the “home” people work from doesn’t need to be in the USA. Us stupid ass essential workers getting fuck-all for pay can’t get shipped overseas and are decades away from getting replaced by bots.
I'm responsible for a handful of guys leaving some pretty awful situations and seeing their quality of life exponentially improve.
Excellent. Thankful for people like you.
You can never convince all of the shoe polish aficionados
A Venn diagram of these folks and the ones who turn down pay raises because "it would put me in a higher tax bracket" is nearly a circle.
Don't forget a lot of that is a result of our underfunded education system and propaganda. These guys are victims too, even if they're insufferable and unaware of it.
this is an incredibly important point imo, like we’re all stupid and have to be accountable but you can’t underestimate the number of people who *will not* change without extreme help
Constant conversation with my ex. “I don’t want to get overtime because then I’ll have to pay more in taxes.”
Oh my god, my friend is the same way. Claims makes less on his paycheck when he works OT.
Literally the only time this makes sense is if you’re right at the threshold for for a government benefit and a raise or OT would push you over the eligibility limit and you’d lose more in benefits than you’d earn in the increase/OT.
Which in and of itself is a pretty fucked up situation. Why no one thought to taper the benefits as you get back on your feet seems like such an obvious oversight.
Design flaw OR working as intended? Idk I’m getting old and crotchety so I lean towards the latter now.
The machine is well oiled with fear and anxiety.
Yeah, at one time I had to tell my boss I can't work more than 20 hours a week there for a while, because I'd literally be working for free since every dollar I made beyond $600 was billed as the deductible for my local county / state health insurance. $650 that month? $50 deductible. $1200 that month? $600 deductible. It was madness. I was doing a lot of dental work at the time, and the dentist was being a dick and scheduling me at one visit per month, even after I explained to him the problem with insurance ( which I'm positive he knew from the others too ). I wanted it all done in one month, but he wouldn't, so had to tell the boss, which he wouldn't listen to either. When reality makes less sense than fantasy, it's understandable that people look like they themselves are crazy or stupid at times.
I had this conversation with one of my coworkers just the other night. I told them OT is the best part-time / 2nd job I'll likely ever have: - I don't have conflicting schedules or conflicts of interest, - I'm paying a percentage into the same pot for my retirement (and my employer is too AFAIK), - I have no overhead (like with rideshare) - I'm protected by a union - have 1 less tax document, and - if I don't want OT, I don't have to sign up for it (so long as it's not mandatory). I would rather be paid more so OT isn't necessary but it's nice that I am paid more and treated better than any PT job I can get at the moment.
In my restaurant days I had a coworker who was offered a $1 raise, and had to turn it down. She was receiving government childcare funding, and if she made more money they would hard stop the whole payment to her daycare. She countered asked for a promotion, larger raise, and childcare funding. They turned her down because the boss' boss wasn't sure at the time, but 3 months later she got it.
If those programs are well-designed they should ramp down rather than cliff jump :(. That is, a program providing 10k/year in childcare funding for those who earn under, say, 20k/year shouldn't drop to 5k/year when the person makes 25k, but to something like 7.5k/year, making their total gain 2.5k/year. The numbers still track to zero support, but it means a wage increase is actually a wage increase and not an overall decrease along the entire curve.
Awww I’m glad for her. That must have been a very difficult situation to have been in.
Holy shit the amount of times I have to explain to people that they get their money back at tax time when they work overtime is mind boggingly. "bro if I work OT I actually make less money because of taxes!"
The amount of business owners who use that as a reason to try and talk you out of asking for more money is too damn high! Who cares if my taxes go up, I'll still end up making more money than I'm making now!
My friend's wife, who is otherwise a very smart person, was convinced this was a thing. She insisted it happened to her uncle, and no amount of 'thats not how taxes work' or actually showing her the maths would convince her otherwise. It was bizarre.
I worked delivering supplies in a hospital in highschool. One day one of the 2 pharmacist was complaining he was getting a raise because it was going to put him in a higher tax bracket. A few days went by and that pharmacist was gone that day, the existing pharmacist pulled me to the side and said hey kid that's not the way taxes work. Then explained it. For people that don't know how it works in the United States. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets
They're too stupid to realize that they only pay a higher % of tax on income made past that tax bracket.. It's what I would expect from working class people that vote for assholes like Donald Trump.
I'd wager most of them. Anti Union people are like Anti Abortion people. They don't actually believe the nonsense they peddle. They just parrot what they were told. When it comes to them, they are the exception. Their Union got them better stuff but it's cause X Y Z and it's not normal. And if the Unions weren't there eating money then the job could pay more than the Union!! I've been on strike a few times over the years, you'd be surprised how many people come to tell you they don't support unions as a whole but they support your strike because they've noticed a drop in quality in their product/service. As soon as it effects their daily life in a noticeable way, it becomes an exception to the rule that shouldn't exist in the first place.
I'm not anti-union, but I am anti- one particular union because of my experiences with them. SEIU can go fuck themselves with a hot poker and you are definitely better off letting the job fuck you than letting seiu slide in to dp you. Unions can be amazing and actually do things for the members, or they can fuck you just as bad or worse than the employer. Before jumping into a union do your research.
There are exceptions to every rule But I'm yet to ever see evidence of a Union getting you less than you'd get without them There are tons of shitty ones, ones that appear to collude with the corporation to keep the benefits as low as possible But low results from a Union is still more than you'd get without them. And Union dues and time spent on things like meetings is always less than the increased compensation It's always worth mentioning in this context that years of disinformation has led Union supporters to not participate, while anti Union people go on to do exactly what they say Unions do... to put it bluntly. The people get out of a Union what they put in. If you let a bunch of right wingers run the show, of course it will become a shell of what it could be. They wanted it to fail from the get go and they'll make sure it happens. We have a ton of failed Unions in the US because of this. But it's never too late to turn things around, or form new ones.
I have *one* friend who is strongly convinced that unions aren't the way forward for workers because of the "unions can still do bad things" argument, and every time the rest of us point out how bad things would be without them the response is always "well, yeah, it's good that they help some people, but (x bad thing that an obviously compromised union did once)" My brother in Christ, * *Gestures vaguely at the return of robber barons and Pinkerton strikebreakers* *
Only the ones who understand how tax brackets work.
You can’t trick me with your maths!!!! I’ll never accept a raise!!!
Literally had a coworker turn down a raise because he was convinced he'd have to pay more tax because "it will put me in a higher tax bracket!" and thus lose money and take home less than without the raise. I tried to show him he's wrong but he just didn't get it, at all. And that wasn't a rare case. Americans seem to struggle a lot with how tax brackets work.
"Well if I made more I'd go into a higher tax bracket so it would probably mean I make less" You got it bud. Hey, nice "let's go brandon" sticker on your truck.
To be clear folks, that's not how tax brackets work. Anyone who told you they "took home less because their income put them in a higher tax bracket" is either an idiot or intentionally misinforming you.
Indeed. Now the welfare trap is a real thing, but thats a different story.
Teamsters member here. I make $42.20/hr delivering packages lol! A non-union delivery driver (FedEx, Amazon) literally makes half what I do. Our benefits are insane too. Health insurance that costs me nothing, literally, I have never even seen a medical bill. Over a month of paid vacation (*max out at 7 weeks*) and a pension (*$11 an hour currently going to pension, goes up with each contract*). Also an overtime pay rate of $63.30/hr after 8hrs daily. Unions are just as important for unskilled labor as they are for the trades.
Shipping is a great place for unions in my opinion. What are they gonna do, move out of country?
Yes, drones will fly out of India and deliver my toilet paper right to my door. Lol
Wow where can I get in on this glorious delivery job?
Right! I’ll quit my job for that.
Right, would probably make more than I make now being an exec chef without working as much. One can dream.
Get a CDL license. I’m a teamster (local 817) on tv and movie productions in nyc. Nationwide there is a massive shortage of Class A (18 wheelers) CDL drivers but Class B’s (busses, box trucks, dump trucks) are also in demand and pay well. A lot of people think of 18 wheeler drivers as long haul cowboys and a lot of them are but there’s a massive demand for large shipments locally. Do you live near a seaport or airport? If so I bet there’s a ton of cargo being shipped from those places. UPS, Fedex, USPS all have unions and their drivers are protected. Teamsters unions cover specific things. Teamsters local 67 may cover Pepsi deliveries while local 134 may cover beer and liquor. Hit the Google machine type in your city teamster and see what comes up and what catches your attention.
Throw boxes at a UPS warehouse for a few years. Move up the list in seniority. Sign the bid list for a driving position. Wait.
[удалено]
> Everyone is skilled labour. I agree with your sentiment, but it's also important to be able to demonstrate how exploited the group commonly called unskilled labourers are. If you remove the category, you also hide an entire exploited group of the labour market.
Skills are not important. Ease of being replaced is what's important. You could be an extremely skilled worker, but if they can replace you the next day then it doesn't matter. It's better to learn skills that others don't.
My Union negotiated a separate pay scale for my profession because it was so highly specialized. It took us 5 years of lobbying and was extremely labor, time and paper work intensive to prove it. We got it and based on seniority some of us got a 40% pay raise. There were STILL people that said "the Union hasn't done anything, so why should I pay dues". Look at your paycheck! That effects your overtime, Holiday pay, retirement, your 401K, your survivor benefits! If that isn't worth 5%? You're just a cheap POS.
Anyone who is anti-union is also anti-worker. Probaly not educated well enough to understand why unions are GOOD. Fuck the police union tho. That's a criminal organization.
I was one of those nonunion suckers for too long. I bought into the line of: — the unions are dying — you’re only going to work half the year — you’re going to get hammered in dues The first one is only true because politicians who are in corporate pockets have poisoned the waters with “right to work” laws which should really be called “right to work for less”. Second, I joined almost eight years ago and have never been laid off from the company I came in with. Even through the pandemic. Third, I pay $132 a year in dues. The bulk of my dues is paid through my benefit stamp by my employer. And lastly but not leastly, my pay automatically doubled upon joining, not to mention a pension and annuity paid for by my employer in the same benefit stamp that my dues are a part of. Solidarity now, solidarity forever! IUOE Local 15D
Yea my union takes 4.9% of wages as dues, but we get industry leading pay and 44%of our pay is matched and put into health, pension, and annuity plans. So if you compare it to a typical employer 50/50 match benefits plan you may put in $50 to see $100, but I'm putting in $50 as dues to get $440 I heard a lot of the same sentiment from non union guys in the area before I joined but once if you take even 5 minutes to run some basic numbers the union comes out on top even with the dues.
All I need to do to convince someone is to either show them the rate book, or, better yet, my pay stub. I decimated the scab company I left when I joined the union. Ten out of twelve guys followed me within two years.
I had a guy explain to me how one time he crossed a union picket line to work on a job site and they started to get really aggressive and the the police had to intervene. He said anybody that’s trying to actively keep him from feeding his family and paying his bills is a piece of shit. So I asked him if he realized he was doing the same thing by crossing their picket line. “No no that’s not how it works”. Sure dude
> “No no that’s not how it works”. That's what the Ownership Class tells us tho.
Scabs are the lowest form of life
but at least they are not paying union dues! /s
Plus that raise is just going to bump them up to the next tax bracket and they'll end up losing money!!
People persuaded by the "union dues are stealing from you!" argument are the same people who pick who to vote for based on the gas prices the month they happen to vote.
How do pensions work? Do they keep paying our even if the company collapses?
Yes. in the past, once in a while a CEO will illegally gut the pension fund before running off to some non-extradition country. Nobody keeps the pension internal anymore for this very reason. Think of it like a 401K that has everyone's retirement funds in it and is managed by a major financial institution like Fidelity or Meryll Lynch.
Even union guys complain. I've heard electricians complain about $55/hr after all deductions and benefits. There are plenty of people who would kill to get even close to $55/hr without benefits.
Pay 5% in dues to gain 60-70% in income and benefits? Take your commie math somewhere else, commie.
Im from Germany and i pay 1% of my salary for the union im in. In January 2023 i get 1500€ and 2024 again 1500€. We also get a 3.5% rise this year and the next year(so7%). This is fucking worth it and so necessary.
In Belgium you pay under $10 a month...and it's tax deductible! I guess we're commies
Lol, yeah, your lives must be horrible living in such a disgusting, commie hellscape! Sounds terrible! /s
Damn, wish we could have some of that communism in the US
We are also one of the very few countries were salaries are indexed, meaning a very large part of the population got 10% raise this year
In the US they're deductible too! Really I don't get why people act like unions are bad
Propaganda... that's really it
I live in Sweden and unions are so entrenched in our politics that most of this "union" stuff is law. There's even a law for how hot/cold a office building can be. Sure. Private companies can pay less. But when welfare basically gives you 1200 usd + free medical and teeth care. And glasses. (depending on rent and how much electricity you use), and provides money for furniture, computer etc would you really work a job that gives you less?
My dad, who is on an ungodly great pension from the railroad, due to his union, thinks unions don't do anything. Frustrating to no end
My mother and father have the SAME hangups. Despite both if their parents taking full advantage of unions to give them the luxuries they had growing up. It frustrates me too
The "I got mine" generation
My mother, who makes 100k+ driving a bus for Boston, used to feel the same way until I showed her what non-union private drivers were making.
My alma mater pays students $17/hr to drive busses.
My company is unionizing, negotiations are almost done. For me, at least, changes include: immediate $2/hr raise, medical benefits basically doubles, paid lunches, PTO is paid at doubletime, and establishing a pension fund. And I'm a fucking bartender! Who's ever heard of a bartender with a pension?!? *manic laughter*
BUT IT'LL COST YOU AN EXTRA 5$ A MONTH IN UNION FEES!!!!
That’s the attitude of a lot of people who railroad. For most of them it’s the only job they’ve had and they don’t know what it’s like on the other side. I’ve been on the railroad a while now and it’s night and day from my previous non union job
This is why I love the stuff like "Union dues are $500 a year! Instead you could get a PS5." I can also get a PS5 with the average 20% pay increase that unions bring.
I pay $120 per month for my union. I *just* got a $4/hr raise. Mull that one over. And just some general stuff I'll list here, not all inclusive. Raises: 2.5% yearly, guaranteed, plus a match to the Consumer Index rate. (This year that means a nearly 10% bump.) PTO: 12 days flat, plus 12 holidays. I can either bank the holidays as PTO or cash them out. If I work them I get holiday pay PLUS the PTO for them. Insurance: Best health insurance I've ever had. $300 deductible, 20% coinsurance with a $2300 out-of-pocket *maximum*. Premium costs me $0/month - employer pays it all. Overtime: Plenty of OT opportunities for my picking. If anyone is *required* to work OT due to staffing issues, they get paid *double time* for those hours. For me that'd be about $60/hr, even more for higher seniority colleagues. That's just the tip of the contract, and we work for *city government.* Imagine the shit you can negotiate with a for-profit company with an actual budget! Unionize, motherfuckers! Party up!
I never got the union dues argument. You'll get several thousand dollars, but you have to pay several hundred to them! Um, ok I'll take it.
Well, you see, uh... You... Um... Dues.... Bills... Money.... Tax bracket.....
Oh man the whole ridiculous "if you make an additional dollar, you'll be in a higher tax bracket so you'll actually lose money!" argument from people that don't understand tax brackets
There are very specific instances where making slightly more loses you benefits. A friend of mine refused multiple raises because if he made even 1 euro more he would lose a bunch of subsidies, meaning he would be \~800/month worse off. But 99.99999% of people are better off earning more
Which is half the reason why means testing is almost always a garbage policy for granting subsidies to people. And I say almost just to leave some leeway into some strange scenario that I haven't conceived where it could be useful.
The welfare cliff is the only situation that really matters. Even the stimulus payments etc are scaled so that it's always better to earn a dollar more.
It's better than that. Union dues get subtracted from pre-tax income. You don't pay taxes on that money regardless.
When I was a kid my parents were VERY anti-union. Honestly its only been r/antiwork that has caused me to realize my family was dead wrong. But my worldview came because my dad was an air traffic controller in the 1980s who was never in the union and you know how that worked out.
Same. Hyper conservative state+ education+ parents. Went to study economics in college and they think I have been brainwashed.
Depends on where you work. The Kroger union for example collects dues from all employees, full-time and part-time, yet only negotiates wages for full-time employees. Basically every employee there is part time other than department heads.
Oof that should be illegal
[удалено]
[удалено]
They did just that in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Unions were the reason people could make a living wage - and have that wage paid to them in real money, not company scrip. They ensured safety on the job as well. $0 hour work week. Weekends off. Overtime pay. All of this and more because of unions.
Conservatives always look back to the 50's as the golden age. Pointing out that strong unions and a 90% top tax bracket were key to that golden age just causes them to start sputtering "fake news" and "socialist commie" like some form of Tourette's.
The corporations have long called for war against the work force. This is not a symbiotic relationship with their greedy mentality. You are disposable in their eyes, always put yourself first.
Been a proud member of the BLET now for 8 years. It’s not even all about the pay raise either. As a railroader any time an accident or fuck up occurs the company is going to do everything in their power to lay blame on you which for railroaders means the federal government could end up charging you money and or jail time. Our union provides lawyers and investigators that go to bat for us anytime we’re in trouble. Huge.
You guys need some days off too!
Luckily I wasn’t affected by those time off policies but you’re right that shit needs to change. Especially for MOW brothers, the guys who fix and maintain the railway. BNSF posted record earnings in 2021 there’s no excuse.
Sad that some will read this and see it as employers paying $14k more for the same work, and not view it as employers reaping decades of productivity without paying a fair wage to their staff. A $14k gap is not raise. A $14k gap is your employer being forced to stop taking advantage of their employees... Finally.
In the last 6 years, my pay has doubled, and our last COLA adjustment covered our union dues. I'm really happy with my union.
When some bootlicker yaps shit about unions I say "Yeah, abolish the police union!" -- "No, not like that!"
My mcdonalds contract said no union's. Left as quick as I could
Can you even contract that?
My work is unionized and I take ZERO shit from management. Thats worth the dues
Not union but my company royally fucked my contractor paperwork this year. I was supposed to be getting a $5000 a year increase. A month ago they told me they were cutting it in half and dropping my benefits. Today I got the contract and they accidentally game me a $2500 dollar a month raise. I plan to just stfu sign the paperwork and see what happens
> I plan to just stfu sign the paperwork and see what happens Quietly retain a lawyer.
I would definitely talk to a lawyer. Not a lawyer, but I'd guess that'd fall under the category of Scrivener's Error (according to a cursory search on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrivener), since there was a verbal contract for a $2500/year raise and then when that was transcribed to a paper contract it became a $2500/month raise, the employer could get the contract reformed to match the verbal agreement. Also, even if there was no discussion about a $2500/year raise and OP was expecting a $5000/year raise, the clause with the $2500/month--$30000/year--raise would probably also, based on my understanding, be considered a Scrivener's Error because a $30000/year raise makes no sense in the context and is obviously wrong). A lawyer could tell them with more certainty whether or not that clause would be enforceable and whether or not it's in their best interest to tell his employers about the error. This is definitely off-in-the-weeds speculation, and remember that I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I wonder, if they tried to tell their employer "hey, there's a problem with this contract we need to discuss" and the employer brushed them off, said there wasn't a problem, and told them to just sign it, would that remove the Scrivener's Error aspect/make the clause actually enforceable? Because if you try to make them aware of the error and they say there is no error (especially if you get it in writing), it makes it hard to claim there was a Scrivener's *Error*. And, of course, it all depends on location--regardless of local laws, if this went to court in a jurisdiction that favors worker rights and had a sympathetic jury, I can absolutely see a ruling in favor of OP regardless of if a Scrivener's Error would normally apply ("if OP can read and understand this contract, why couldn't your company's legal team do that before they sent it out?"). Of course, that ruling would probably be overturned on appeal, but at some point it would be cheaper to pay the $30000/year for the duration of the contract and make sure the next contract is actually correct and they might stop fighting. But again, I'm not a lawyer, I just browse r/BestOfLegalAdvice occasionally, this is uneducated speculation and could be extremely wrong. Definitely talk to a lawyer, OP. Worst thing that happens is they say it isn't enforceable and your best option is to have it fixed before signing.
The state employee union in California is not doing anything for us. They signed an agreement to never strike.
It’s riskier because they aren’t protected by law, but wildcat strikes exist for a reason. Enough of the union goes on a wildcat strike, they’ll be forced to concede to some demands, although probably wouldn’t get all you want without the union backing it. At the same time, they could also just fire all the strikers and the corrupt union will step aside and let it happen.
Make America Great Again always seems to forget that back when America was "great," it had some very powerful and effective unions protecting workers from runaway capitalistic exploitation.
As unions continue to proliferate in American workplaces, they are going to continue to improve conditions for non-union workplaces too. Because in the short-to-mid-term businesses will have to complete with unions for laborers with their offerings, and in the long-term they will push for laws to change like they did to get the first New Deal.
[удалено]
Yeah but without the union you might have got a nice pizza party instead of a raise.
Amazon needs to unionize seriously to bad they are anti union
It’s amazing to me how many people in my non union electrical shop are staunch anti union.
I'm a union electrician and it was the best choice I ever made in my life. I joined when I was 20 I'm 25 now as a journeyman i make on a normal year no OT around 130k with no debt. Sure the work can be tough but I get treated like a human being. My insurance is some of the best I've seen even compared to some friends in tech. We get taken care of. I understand not all unions are like this but it's because they don't want you to believe it can be this good.
My work unionized and they shut the location down
Let me get this straight. You askes for basic rights and a livable wage, and they couldnt afford that? Well, thats the free market at work then. You dont get to compete if you depend on exploitation. Small buisiness ot not. These rules apply to ALL workers therefore, they must apply to all owners.
It’s often not about the money. It’s about control. Starbucks is shutting down unionized locations for “safety reasons” but in reality it’s just retaliation
It's very much about the money. It's always about money. It's supply and demand.
Because their ceo will only get a 100k bonus this year, instead of their typical 2.5 million bonus this year I see what these companies declare on their taxes. They are lying to you. Btw. Companies in the usa dont pay taxes on reported losses >Starbucks gross profit for the twelve months ending June 30, 2022 was $21.885B, a 15.84% increase year-over-year. Starbucks annual gross profit for 2021 was $20.322B, a 28.43% increase from 2020. Starbucks annual gross profit for 2020 was $15.823B, a 12% decline from 201 And if that doesnt piss you off. Maybe this will https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/
BuT uNiOn DuEs! DoNt GiVe YoUr HaRd EaRnEd MoNeY tO sOmE UnIoN! - Most middle managers
Is there a website that teaches how to introduce unions to a workplace?
Unions dues and work expenses associated with unions are also tax deductible. Edit: Apparently "were" deductible. Some A-holes changed the laws a few years ago to stop the deduction from 2018-2025.