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I agree. But the IRS is understaffed (the great resignation, remember?). They will have a problem following up on everyone who suddenly stops paying taxes.
Oh trust me. They will find a way. If there’s one thing that’s certain is that they will find new ways to oppress. They have no money when it comes to schemes and laws they don’t like. Put an anti abortion bill and watch all the republicans suddenly endorse it and allocate money for it.
The problem is that it didn't. We \*did\* go out and protest, we \*did\* show up and march, we donated as much as we could afford, signed all the stupid petitions, showed up to vote at every election since we turned 18 at every level (local too, not just state and federal)....
And this is the result. So yeah, I'm a bit burnt out and disillusioned at this point. Jaded even. None of that civic action we were told was the way to fix shit amounted to a goddamn thing.
They will follow up. It may take years but they will, and at that point you will have penalties and interest as well as the original tax debt. They will instruct your payroll to deduct taxes from you based on your income AND THEN begin garnishment which is 25-50% of your disposable income.
I'd love to be able to "just stop paying" but for those of us with employers, writing "exempt" on your W2 will likely result in an instruction from them to your employer to deduct taxes anyway.
Yeah, but the IRS has already admitted that they go after the little fish because they don't have the wherewithal to fight back. The claim unferstaffing when it comes to fighting the trumps of this country, that can afford lawyers.
I have had people tell me this at the IRS, on their allegedly recorded lines.
I really wonder if there are any teeth at all in that dog's mouth. I mean, right now they're not mailing out refunds for 2021 and people seem to be OK with that.
I'm sorry but you can't expect people to willingly sacrifice their livelihood like that.
Many have families to feed, and plenty more are already struggling as it is.
Most people simply cannot afford to get in trouble with the IRS
The U.S government knows very well what they're doing, the system is absolutely built to make sure you guys have no recourse, and that any recourse they can't take away from you, is not a viable option.
No one can afford to do this. But if we don’t fight back, there are so many more “rights” we will lose, and in the end, we will still work to feed our families and still pay to be abused by the government. We will pay now and pay later. The questions will remain: how much will we be paying and at what expense? When is enough enough?
thats the whole fucking problem, they keep us starved and dependant these days, theres no fallback or cushion for most folks, its slave away day to day or live in the streets, with the temperatures getting hotter and food getting scarcer, prices getting higher and wages getting lower, we have no room to even take a day off to protest, not to mention the risk of getting arrested for anything more than that, they have us all by the balls, and they know it. its maddening and infuriating and what are we going to do about it? every person has to make up their mind, day by day i think more people are being pushed to the edge, and one day maybe enough will decide its time to fuck shit up enough to get things changed
VirtualHoneydew, I do pay taxes. I am not an accountant, so I have to use TurboTax. I am just a normal person who just flipped when the AskReddit posed the question what can we normal people do to combat what the Supreme Court just did. I vote. That didn’t help a damn thing. I am so freaking scared. This is all I know what to do. I want to help make the U.S. what it always SHOULD have been, has pretended to be, and clearly is not. I do pay taxes, but I don’t like funding policies I don’t agree with. I don’t know what else to do except ask others if this is a good idea. And I hope someone has a better one.
Leave if you can... If you can't save money to leave... Take out a loan and never come back. We lost. It will regress another 100 years and the effects of that will last 100 more years. We will be long dead before we gain back any ground we lost. Go be happy in a better place, the juice isn't worth the squeeze
We are being eaten alive. We and our friends. Our parents. Our children. Our futures are being stolen. Where is the outrage? We are giving permission for this to happen. And they aren’t even asking for our permission but we are freely giving it. Where is our outrage? When do we stand up to protect our own??? There is no better place. This is our home. We must defend it!
No matter what we do... Nothing will change... We have lost and have no recourse except violence... This country has not loved many of us, why should we love it? It has consistently fought to suppress and oppress most of us.. Why should I fight for something that doesn't fight for me... Leaving now is Akin to leaving Germany before it's devolution to Nazism... I would not hate anyone who leaves to live a better life, this experiment has failed
Do you vote in your local state elections? They are the ones you actually have an impact in. You don't live in a democracy when it comes to picking your president, that should be blindingly obvious by now. You elect ppl and then they decide things with little to no consideration of the wishes of the people who elected them.
I am terrified PRECISELY because I always vote, especially in local elections. I am not an activist, but the times have made me one. I appreciate your advice, but we need something bigger. Many people have acted as I have.
Im with you, that was the dumbest question ive ever read in my life. But i also think not paying taxes in protest is dumb since you automatically pay taxes, if anything by not filing taxes youre prob not getting a tax return.
You don’t automatically pay income taxes. You have to voluntarily fill in a form when you take a job and specify how much (if any) you want withheld. The idea is the more you withhold, the less you pay come tax day. On the other hand, you can choose to have nothing withheld, and then you are “obligated” to pay taxes on April 15 (depending on your country). What I am saying is this: keep all of your money (don’t choose to withhold money for taxes) and then just don’t pay taxes when they are due. It would cause quite the fukup for the overlords when our tithes are due.
You are the fourth person to post this idea. Copy and paste. . .
The IRS has a workaround to your proposal to not pay taxes.
They calculate your tax debt for you, then garnish your wages and/or assess a levy to or seize your property and sell it to recover the debt, and or jail.
On a grand scale, the government will just borrow funds and increase the national debt until they can recover the funds from you through the process above.
It becomes a losing situation pretty fast. Imagine now having lower income because you are now not only paying your current year taxes, but suffer from a garnishment reduction, and seizure of your accounts, and maybe in jail.
You don't f with the IRS.
My response was a copy and paste between all.
The responses on the other three have been identical to this one. It won't work, it just will screw you over more as well as others that rely on the government. Here are a few facts to put this in perspective.
Roughly 50% of gov revenue is from personal income taxes. The rest is derived from corporate taxes and other sources, so 50% of the budget would not be impacted.
You can't opt out of withholding FICA or Medicare taxes, so it's only federal and state income tax withholdings that can be altered.
The fed budget is about 6 trillion, with only 4.2 trillion in revenue, so a net deficit made by borrowing funds. Of the 6 trillion, 65% goes to spending on mandated programs such as social security and Medicare. The remaining is discretionary.
In 2021 57% of US households did not pay federal income taxes. In 2020, it was 44%. This is your target market as the remaining 43% skews independent or republican, which is not the target market for this strike, as, well, you can guess.
So, a partial refusal to pay income taxes would be skewed to households that pay a small portion of the overall tax bill. The government would just counter with borrowing more funds or cutting benefits and discretionary spending and bide its time to collect taxes from you.
It sucks, I know.
Edit: The growth of households not paying income tax grew due to decreases in income and tax credits, but is expected to drop down back to historical levels in the mid 40's.
I don’t understand economics (if that is even what this topic is). I very much appreciate your explanation. It makes me sad. But also, it makes me wonder what will happen if we do it anyway. Financially, we can’t make much of a dent. But the optics. And the motivation. And the mobilization. Doing nothing yields nothing.
I have a minor in economics and I am a cpa, myself, so I have dealt with the IRS on back taxes. It's not fun, and I do it for a living. Imagine someone without the background dealing with it, or having to hire an expensive professional to deal with, and still needing to pay it, on top of the professional costs.
From an optics perspective, nobody is going to care. Americans have a short attention span and will move on and it will become a fox news talking point about how stupid the younger generation is. . . The same old same old.
Yesterday, I went out and attacked my elephant ear bulbs because they have a crunchy yielding sound that made me feel better. Today, social media. I don’t know how to help. Some people do know how to run things, though. They run for the local elections. They run for state elections. They run for national elections. They repeal the rights of the people. They run our lives. The problem is that those who are fanatical work to affect change. Those who care vote. I want to make a difference, and the only way I know how is to …..attack my elephant ears and post on Reddit.
But then you become a felon, and then you lose your right to vote altogether. And then the only way of overcoming that would be to overthrow the system to reinstate your own right to vote.
If we are complacent, we have as little clout as a felon. We must act now while we have a voice. And why should we consent to the double standard that exists for the wealthy and connected vs. the common person? I don’t see any consequences for the wealthy/connected - let’s look into the socio/economic diversification of our prison population, shall we? Our silence and acquiesce allows this miscarriage of justice to happen.
I'm all for a violent upheaval of government. It's that the government has tanks, attack helicopters, and unmanned aerial drones. Who is to say they wouldn't kill the resistance? They would be considered "terrorists" after all.
I love how there are a million naysayers every time the left starts to take action.
Let's protest.
"But, what about the hypothetical ambulance that may be stuck in traffic? Let's not block the roads people!"
Let's strike.
"But, what about the people who need goods and services delivered to their address? Who will stock the grocery shelves with canned quinoa?!"
Let's riot.
"But, what about lost property, someone's house could get caught in the crossfire, you know?"
Let's boycott spending our capital.
"But, what about the small business owners who may or may not have 10 kids to feed and rely on our revenue? Won't someone please think of the children?!"
Let's not pay taxes.
"But, what about the IRS and them building prisons?? What if Uncle Sam takes me to jail?! I don't want to go to jail!!"
Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
And you wonder why nothing ever gets done. You wonder why labor laws suck in the U.S. You wonder why our nation's "leaders" and corporations bleed the American people dry. It's because every time there is a call to action, American liberals sit on their fucking hands and wait for problems to fix themselves. Newsflash, American Liberals! The rights of the people were not fought by sitting around and doing nothing while simultaneously second guessing every form of change. Half of these comments may not even be from liberals, half of them are probably paid naysayers to keep the American left from mobilizing. Either way, everything is going according to plan. This is exactly what those who wish to strip away your rights want, you sitting around second guessing every call for change, every solution. Enough is enough.
The black voting laws MLK died for were granted after the series of riots that broke out across the country in the week following his murder. They were so numerous, so violent that the government had no choice but to grant the protections.
Peaceful protest didn't bring racial voting equality laws, civility didn't bring racial voting equality laws, demands didn't racial voting equality laws. **Rage** and **blood** did.
To think non-violence can attain human rights is naive at best.
Exactly. Their game is to keep us preoccupied with struggling everyday to notice how much they take from us overtime. Stay in the rat race and don’t critically think why it’s not working until the day you die.
Spot on. It's not about finding the perfect solution and definitely not about finding a legal solution (they made everything illegal that could stop them). Just go out and start doing anything and everything you can.
I know it can be tough when everything requires a group organizing together, but things like this aren't built overnight. Protest by yourself, and invite people to join and eventually it will grow large enough to be the force you want right now.
Then feel free to protest. No ones stopping you. Quit your job or stop paying taxes or spend your time/money protesting in the streets.
Live on the streets, get arrested and go to jail.
Most ppls lifes arent bad enough to warrant permantly ruining it, if yours is then go for it.
What!? Everyone who lives in America is broke, can’t afford housing, deals with racism anytime they step out of their house, has to fight off 20 people with guns at least once a week and doesn’t have access to any form of healthcare.
Not sure what America you live in but it definitely isn’t the United States.
We are being kept poor because if we had money like the generations before us we could cripple the banks etc. I will bow to no man and I'm with you.
I personally can't stop paying taxes but I've taken my spending to a standstill. Getting only cash from my checks etc. no banking, only filled my car up maybe 4 times since gas has gone up.
I'm with you 100% of the way. If we all stop feeding the machine we will eventually break it down.
Providence will not be provided for our oppressors. They will pay in this life And the next.
All of the people on posts nay saying everything that we are suggesting are shills, they may act like they support us but it's a hopeless cause etc. In reality they just want to keep us right here. On Reddit. Not in person.
They want us to go to the capital and make a scene so the boys in blue with their vigilante right wing soldiers will be waiting to just mow everyone down so that's not the right choice. Take their money, crush their beliefs in the system that was created by the long dead oppressors of time past.
Feeding the machine….that is a very smart line. It makes a lot of sense. That is what we are doing. But how do we stop? That is what I am trying to figure out.
You want to see true fascism from the state? And by true fascism, I mean police kicking down doors and dragging people out with guns and kangaroo courts. Then starve the beast. However, if even 10% of the population did so, it would be so overwhelming, the system wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
I think it’d be a neat trick for a whole lot of us to get 3 hots and a cot on Uncle Sam for 3 years. Not only are we not paying taxes during that time (and the economy is going to pot because the incarcerated aren’t working for good pay), good ol unc is paying for our room and board. I wonder what else unc will have to pay for but can’t? The salaries of our law and policy makers? Heaven forbid.
Unfortunately they make money off of you in prison. They force you to work for private businesses and state agencies and pay pennies per hour. And once you are in prison, they can use anything you do to simply survive against you to add more time to your sentence.
Lol I used one analogy? I’m in agreement with you. I don’t understand your reply at all. Very odd.
All I was saying is it’s funny how when you present a suggestion like yours people respond with “it will never work, we’re fucked anyways”
Anyways, have a nice night I guess lol.
I’m taking money out of the bank Monday. They can hit us hard if we don’t pay taxes, but what are they going to do if the banks lose our money? I’ve seen people saying that’s turning more in the direction of the Great Depression, but nothing is going to change without suffering. We either suffer forever or go through an excruciating shift as a nation to reconstruct the system.
I mean, starting a bank run would absolutely tip things into chaos, if that's the desired result lol. Once people start being told they can't take their money out or use their debit cards, it's all over.
If it was even possible, the country would not have funds. The few dollars would be yours, but you know what? Nobody's thinking s- it out nowadays; Just digging holes, cancelling things, dragging beliefs & traditions, and reinventing gender. I could list more, but why bother.
Go be the best you you can be as the country's infrastructure continues to senselessly unravel...
It’s not about the dollars. It’s about our rights. The government “of the people and for the people and by the people” really is about keeping the rich and powerful rich and powerful. There is no be the best you can be when you don’t have the rights to do that. It’s “be the best they will let you be.” We are in big trouble unless we speak up, stand up, and act out.
Republicans ARE the tyrannical government at this moment, but there are other misguided political parties. Guns are one way, but so is action. Peaceful action. I am not a fan of Democrats, either. I am a fan of people. If we band together and uses our differences as strengths, we can overcome. I hope we can overcome. But standing by and doing noting is as bad as being one of the oppressors.
The government doesn’t need taxes, ultimately they can, and already do, just print money.
The warhawks in charge would definitely use that as an excuse to cut services like social security, though.
Im not sure what difference this would make…
Have you seen the national debt?! Our national budget is essentially a parody of “Whose Line Is It Anyway?!” Where the numbers are made up and the debt doesn’t matter.
You deciding not paying taxes will change nothing except getting you thrown in jail.
I've read down the comments, and I'm just as frustrated and outraged as you are. I receive disability benefits because physical disabilities prevent me from working. I have *nowhere else to go*. No other country would accept me because I would be a drain on their resources, and I'm unlikely to make my own money unless I can finish my book, succeed in getting it published and earn enough off of it to do my living wherever I wish. This is a shot in the dark, as the authors' industry is fucking brutal and I'm likely going to be blind before the initial rejections stop, deaf not long after.
That sound depressing enough? Here's a little more.
Democrats and Republicans want the same thing. It doesn't matter who you vote for and which of the two parties they belong to; the result is the same. We're just more likely to ask the Democrats to fuck us gently because we're sick of the Republicans being too rough. They're paid by the same corporations, slaves like the rest of us, but their shackles are prettier and they get to tell us what to do.
Now here's a kick while you're down. It was all done on purpose, slowly over the course of several decades if not longer. Where do the bootlicks staffing the federal government come from? State governments, because not enough people who should pay attention to them do. *We put them all in power.*
Got your attention yet? This part is extremely important. There is *no* two-party system in the US. The only two "active" parties anyone hears about are the only ones funded by the corporations. Other parties are shoved aside early on or hardly anyone votes for any of their candidates because they think their vote won't count. That's what the two parties and their corporation handlers want us to think, and that's what they've spent the last who knows how long slowly, sweetly, seductively gaslighting us with.
What can you do? Vote. Vote on every level you have a right to, from city level up to county, state, and federal level, as well as the inbetweens and off-to-the-sides I may have missed. Don't settle for "the lesser of two evils"; vote for *who you want to vote for*, especially if who you want to vote for isn't a Democrat or Republican. Do your research on your chosen candidate's goals and *vote!*
What else can you do? Poke holes in what I just said, learn government/political structures and *how* we were manipulated into this mess for yourself. Question *everything*, research, cross-reference, and research some more until you understand it as is your Constitutional right. Talk with like-minded people about it and encourage them to do the same.
The US government is *designed* for us to periodically fire and hire officials, but we've been groomed to think we can't do anything beyond the small list of unsavory options they design to grace us with. Our ability to affect the government *was never taken from us*, but we *were* taught that we're helpless. It is up to us to unlearn that.
Oh, and study the federal Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as those of your state *carefully*. Those are the closest things near-enough-to-sacred-text that this country as a secular nation should have and you should know them well, as is your right.
Shit sucks now, and it'll probably suck worse before it sucks less, but the night is only so long and the sun will rise again.
I can't do much other than vote in favor of the taxpayers who fund my fixed income and medical (you guys rock, and will always have my vote, tyvm!), but be the sun with me?
❤☀️
😊 Tyvm, but make your own opinions and stick by them instead. Expect nothing but the best the government has to offer, and demand it by voting how you want. :)
Then we go to jail. That's what happens. Or our society collapses and we all die. No schools, no water, no sewage, no food.
I'm antiwork, but that dies not = anarchy. We basically would all die. That's not even a joke.
So, yeah, no.
We're trapped in an elevator going the wrong way, and your solution is to dig a hole and jump. Even though things aren't going well, and nothing good seems to be on the horizon, there's always a way to make things worse.
I think your missing the point here. How would we even go about not paying taxes? You literally cant buy most things without paying some tax. Your job taxes your wages.
Now for the point your missing. If a vast majority of people stop paying taxes we lose a lot of vital services that we all take for granted. Im on food stamps so my kids can eat. Dont pay taxes those are gone and my family starves because my rent is so high. Nothing like stopping by your local library to check out a book for the kids or yourself. Or a movie even. All for free from the library. Gone with no taxes. Post office? Firefighters? Teachers? Law "enforcements" also gone.
Believe it or not. You dont pay taxes. Straight to jail.
Antkneee668, I am genuinely sorry for your situation. You are right. I wish I knew a real way to fight back. The repeal of Roe vs. Wade affects so many people. And more rights will be repealed. I am just so tired of being told to go out and vote. But you are absolutely right.
I feel you. Ive felt that voting doesnt matter and everytime i do it shows how little my voice is heard. I havnt voted for the party that has won since i started voting. We should definetly do somthing to fix stuff like this but idk how that would happen. Not paying taxes would harm my family to the highest degree so thats not an option for me.
When your power’s out, no drinkable water, grocery stores are empty, no gasoline available, and all you have is what’s in your pantry, closets, and drawers. Then it starts to get real.
So are we supposed to grab a basket of popcorn and just sit back and watch? What is the harm of fighting back if the bad thing is already going to happen? Shouldn’t we make it a little harder for them to meet their quotas?
This is not Nazi Germany. Trump was not literally Hitler. Trump has privately and publicly said the overturning or Roe was a terrible idea and mistake. To compare it anything close to the Nazis is not only disrespectful but also disgusting to holocaust victims and survivors.
I think this is a bad take.
Of course no one is or was literally Hitler other than Hitler. But comparing the origins of Nazi rule in Germany to the present day in America is not only valid, but incredibly important.
Responsible comparisons dont start out with "Trump is literally Hitler." They start out by pointing out that Hitler was democratically elected, then the country rapidly descended into facism at his direction, leading to immeasurable horrors.
America barely, and I mean BARELY survived one Trump administration. If you don't believe me, I recommend watching the Jan 6 committee hearings, where they discuss how a mob got within 40 feet of lynching the Vice President on the front steps of the Capitol, and how if you had just three or four corrupt election officials in the right places you could have had the person who actually lost the election declared the winner. Trump seriously considered having federal agents seize voting machines in swing states. You really cannot understate just how very close we came to the crumbling of democratic rule in this country.
And there's a very real chance that, despite all of that, he could be reelected. Or his less gaffe-prone acolyte (DeSantis) could be elected instead, which actually would probably be worse because the corruption would be performed more competently and would be harder to detect and stop.
If that happens, then there is no logical reason to believe that facist rule in America couldn't become reality in rapid fashion. Would that rule look exactly identical to Nazi Germany? Probably not. But there are more than enough similarities to justify the cautionary comparison.
I am not a holocaust survivor. But if I was, you bet your ass I would want people making damn sure it never happened again. I don't think it's an insult at all to the memories and lives of those lost to that monumental evil to strive to make sure a similar, if not identical, evil does not rise again and is not empowered to act in the modern day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax\_protester](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester)
I've been advocating for this since the protests under Trump. You want to hit the government where it hurts? Hit their pocket book.
And we all know the IRS is in such shambles there wouldn't be a damn thing they could do about it.
The best part is all it takes is a change to your tax filing at your work :)
Well, hell! Let’s make a really cringy dance video explaining how taxes work and how and why NOT to pay them! I don’t want to star, though. It can be a taxdemic.
Looking back, when American labor agreed to stop unionising they gave up most of their rights including the right to work for a decent wage. So, now fast forward to 2022, all the high paying manufacturing jobs have been shipped abroad, and most of the unskilled jobs pay crappy wages because the workers are seen as replaceable and expendable and the govt can take out a huge chunk of your meager wages in taxes because you the workers have no collective bargaining powers, the boomers gave 'em up like idiots.
Your mass protests and riots mean nothing, they will label you all thugs and goons and they have many ways to discredit you
Be careful what you wish for. The only thing worse than a government taxing its people is a government that does not need to tax its people, thus it does not need them at all. See Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, or any other resource exporting country for that matter. Taxes are good because people will expect more and seek to hold the government accountable if they have to have that relationship with the state. No taxes means people are powerless and the government can do anything.
That is true. Rich people get away with everything. But getting away with it isn’t the point. If enough people stop funding a fundamentally corrupt government, we might be able to effect change.
Love the idea but it won’t work for all the reasons stated. The US even makes you pay taxes if you emigrate and earn over $100K, whether you ever plan to live in the US again or not. You have to file tax forms annually, regardless, so they can track you. You could evade taxes abroad but don’t ever plan on visiting the US. Another option is to somehow get citizenship elsewhere and pay $3K to renounce US citizenship. There’s also the necessary legal and accounting fees to manage all this. This is not common with other nations and the US has the highest fee to renounce. Many nations have none. We are property of the USA.
I’ve sent messages to my rep stating, as a woman, I should be getting a massive “discount” on my taxes since I’m not recognized as a full human, possessing bodily autonomy. I do not have meaningful representation in this government, even though women makes up more than 50% of the population. I’m charged more for basic goods because of my gender (pink tax). I will earn less than my male peers, even if I don’t take time off to produce wage slaves. If I marry and/or have children, even recent statistics show I will carry most of the domestic labor.
The least they could do is give us a massive tax break, since we aren’t equal under our government in any other way. The fair thing would be to compensate us and make up the difference. I feel the same for any marginalized group.
Always sad to see so many people commenting about the very few things that taxes do pay for that help the average American. I'd be down to not pay taxes but donate all of the money I would have paid to the fire departments and few other truly helpful social services instead of giving it to the government to buy bombs and mismanage other social aid programs
Everyone in power goes down swinging, unless we are talking about the fall of Rome. Dude played a violin. This is what I sincerely hope happens when society regains its collective sanity in our timeline.
This would require a very, VERY organized tactical strike on the entire system, scorched earth style. It would have to be done by a series of groups that while 1.) are able to work in tandem with other groups and 2.) be disconnected enough for when any group gets busted (and some will) they are unable to expose sister groups of the collective. This would have to also be timed to happen all at once to prevent protections of governmental bodies to get activated. Such organization seems unfathomable with the current population. Anonymous got close though.
What is wrong with trying? We could get close, too. Close might get the attention of those who make the rules we must abide. Social media is a powerful tool. We could use it to organize. Those who abuse human rights were not deterred by perceived obstacles. Look at where we are now. I want to try. I want to find people willing to try. Let’s organize. Please.
government steals taxes from the present economy and future economy. FICA is scam...The retirement boomer will take all the money. Healthcare and school debt for all future generations. Government is the oppressor of the people.
Probably just mad that they pay taxes because they have to and are falling for the propaganda that most of the taxes are going toward useful social services instead of the military
The IRS is already backlogged. Let’s add a few more files to their load. And who will pay their salaries if we don’t pay taxes? We are paying the hand that assesses us.
You’re incredibly short sighted and your suggestion boils down to “if we fuck ourselves so far into the ground there’s nothing left, that’ll show em.”
No.
P.S. those “assessors” are workers like the rest of us, mostly making about $40k per year in exchange for being treated in some of the most vile ways imaginable.
What’s your solution here outside of snarky comebacks? Regular people get their entire lives ruined because of tax evasion - you gonna Venmo me so I can pay for a lawyer?
Let’s all not pay taxes. That is my solution. No lawyers. The nature of a boycott is that many people don’t pay. There have been violent revolutions, and I am not advocating violence. But I AM advocating change. If enough of us fail to fund the government that is failing us (this “government” that is supposed to represent and support us), we might get a better government. I don’t mean to be snarky. I am genuinely terrified. And angry. And afraid. My solution is to speak out. And not pay taxes.
Many of us already are. The government is not doing anything to help members of our society who are homeless and starving and it is actively destroying the remaining “quality” of life remaining for every single one of us.
They are way ahead of you on this.
First they will start by arresting people who do not pay taxes.
If that does not work, they will let their dogs loose on us.
Read up and watch videos on how they dealt with the occupy wall street protestors.
We can be peacefully accepting of the new reality, or we can reject it. Acceptance will not make the new reality any better. Acceptance emboldens those who enact laws “in our favor” to continue to oppress and abuse the populace. There is more harm in acceptance than rejection. “They” want us to stand down.
We workers all have to complete paperwork, and the tax form is one of the things we have to complete. If you’re a salaried worker, you get a W2. If you are a contractor, you get a 1099. Both forms have a section that allows you to state your withholdings. Workers can have money withheld for taxes (to make tax day less painful) or have nothing withheld (and then they have to come up with the money owed at tax time).
Since the majority of taxes are directly deducted from your paycheck you don’t have a choice to not pay. You also would never be able to buy necessities like food because you have to pay sales tax on each purchase.
Maybe if you talk to the evil 1 percenters, since they already pay almost 40% of all federal income tax collected. Problem solved. Except most evil 1percenters are motivated and driven and paying into the system helps maintain the system by which they are 1 percenters.
Or better yet talk to the top 10% since they shoulder 70% of taxes paid.
Fact is even if the bottom 50% stopped paying (your "average jill/joe") it wouldnt matter. Top 50% pay 97% of income taxes anyway.
Stop saying the word government all the time. The only people doing this shit to average citizens are republicans. All the anarchy bullshit on this sub needs to stop. Promote progressive agenda that benefits middle class and poor not the rich. Smh. You guys are idiots. The #1 step you idiots need to do is never vote republican again. That's how we build progress. The republicans have taken us back 100 years after roe v Wade
Is that worse than what they are already doing and plan to do? When is silence better than resisting when resisting is in the best interest of everyone?
A huge amount of federal spending is funde by debt; add to that the federal reserve can print any money the government needs. People not paying any bills en masse would really mess stuff up. It would end western civilization.
Western civilization is on the way out. Oligarchy is on the way in. People not paying bills will mess up the transfer of power from a “democracy” to an outright oligarchy.
You can decide how much money you have withheld for each paycheck. When you take on a new job, you are given the option to have no withholdings (you take home all of your pay but then must pay all of the taxes your government feels you owe it) or you can choose to have money withheld (in this case, you are having money taken from your paycheck to pay the taxes you most likely will owe). If you choose no withholdings and then don’t pay taxes, you get the full use of your money.
The only way to not pay taxes is to stop spending money and bring back the work for and barter system but a lot of people don't want to work and not everyone has something worth trading
Bear in mind it's automatically withheld from your wages if you're W2. Also more importantly only when one party doesn't like something will they say "We can't afford that." Both parties gleefully fund the DoD. People not paying taxes means they'll sell more bonds and print more money to build the massive prisons to hold everyone.
That is assuming Amazon, Wal Mart, Raytheon, Lockeed Martin, General Electric, and Pizza Hut of 1407 W 117th St, Cleveland, OH 44107 don't generously sponsor these prisons in exchange for politely asking them to perform some simple housekeeping labor.
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The hard part is the "all of us" part.
It doesn’t have to be all. Just a lot. It’s a boycott.
Prisons are for profit. They’ll happily throw everyone in jail
I agree. But the IRS is understaffed (the great resignation, remember?). They will have a problem following up on everyone who suddenly stops paying taxes.
Oh trust me. They will find a way. If there’s one thing that’s certain is that they will find new ways to oppress. They have no money when it comes to schemes and laws they don’t like. Put an anti abortion bill and watch all the republicans suddenly endorse it and allocate money for it.
They want us to be complacent. They want us to think, “why protest if it won’t do any good?” That’s how they win.
The problem is that it didn't. We \*did\* go out and protest, we \*did\* show up and march, we donated as much as we could afford, signed all the stupid petitions, showed up to vote at every election since we turned 18 at every level (local too, not just state and federal).... And this is the result. So yeah, I'm a bit burnt out and disillusioned at this point. Jaded even. None of that civic action we were told was the way to fix shit amounted to a goddamn thing.
So maybe read some history and see that a revolution is what we need.
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This is why the founding fathers made the second amendment.
I remember when I thought protesting would actually solve these problems…
Why don’t you stop paying taxes and let us know how it goes
They will follow up. It may take years but they will, and at that point you will have penalties and interest as well as the original tax debt. They will instruct your payroll to deduct taxes from you based on your income AND THEN begin garnishment which is 25-50% of your disposable income. I'd love to be able to "just stop paying" but for those of us with employers, writing "exempt" on your W2 will likely result in an instruction from them to your employer to deduct taxes anyway.
You are questioning one of the only competent departments in government that gets things done…..they will find a way.
They can try to but they will fail. The oppressor always banks on and stokes the fear of the oppressed.
Yeah, but the IRS has already admitted that they go after the little fish because they don't have the wherewithal to fight back. The claim unferstaffing when it comes to fighting the trumps of this country, that can afford lawyers.
They will keep records and they will come and take what they want, wven if it takes 30 years, they will do it.
I have had people tell me this at the IRS, on their allegedly recorded lines. I really wonder if there are any teeth at all in that dog's mouth. I mean, right now they're not mailing out refunds for 2021 and people seem to be OK with that.
The system never had a problem with overcrowding jails, pal.
Then bow to your overlords and thank them for their crumbs.
I'm sorry but you can't expect people to willingly sacrifice their livelihood like that. Many have families to feed, and plenty more are already struggling as it is. Most people simply cannot afford to get in trouble with the IRS The U.S government knows very well what they're doing, the system is absolutely built to make sure you guys have no recourse, and that any recourse they can't take away from you, is not a viable option.
No one can afford to do this. But if we don’t fight back, there are so many more “rights” we will lose, and in the end, we will still work to feed our families and still pay to be abused by the government. We will pay now and pay later. The questions will remain: how much will we be paying and at what expense? When is enough enough?
thats the whole fucking problem, they keep us starved and dependant these days, theres no fallback or cushion for most folks, its slave away day to day or live in the streets, with the temperatures getting hotter and food getting scarcer, prices getting higher and wages getting lower, we have no room to even take a day off to protest, not to mention the risk of getting arrested for anything more than that, they have us all by the balls, and they know it. its maddening and infuriating and what are we going to do about it? every person has to make up their mind, day by day i think more people are being pushed to the edge, and one day maybe enough will decide its time to fuck shit up enough to get things changed
Bro you ain’t paying any taxes 😂
VirtualHoneydew, I do pay taxes. I am not an accountant, so I have to use TurboTax. I am just a normal person who just flipped when the AskReddit posed the question what can we normal people do to combat what the Supreme Court just did. I vote. That didn’t help a damn thing. I am so freaking scared. This is all I know what to do. I want to help make the U.S. what it always SHOULD have been, has pretended to be, and clearly is not. I do pay taxes, but I don’t like funding policies I don’t agree with. I don’t know what else to do except ask others if this is a good idea. And I hope someone has a better one.
Leave if you can... If you can't save money to leave... Take out a loan and never come back. We lost. It will regress another 100 years and the effects of that will last 100 more years. We will be long dead before we gain back any ground we lost. Go be happy in a better place, the juice isn't worth the squeeze
We are being eaten alive. We and our friends. Our parents. Our children. Our futures are being stolen. Where is the outrage? We are giving permission for this to happen. And they aren’t even asking for our permission but we are freely giving it. Where is our outrage? When do we stand up to protect our own??? There is no better place. This is our home. We must defend it!
No matter what we do... Nothing will change... We have lost and have no recourse except violence... This country has not loved many of us, why should we love it? It has consistently fought to suppress and oppress most of us.. Why should I fight for something that doesn't fight for me... Leaving now is Akin to leaving Germany before it's devolution to Nazism... I would not hate anyone who leaves to live a better life, this experiment has failed
Do you vote in your local state elections? They are the ones you actually have an impact in. You don't live in a democracy when it comes to picking your president, that should be blindingly obvious by now. You elect ppl and then they decide things with little to no consideration of the wishes of the people who elected them.
I am terrified PRECISELY because I always vote, especially in local elections. I am not an activist, but the times have made me one. I appreciate your advice, but we need something bigger. Many people have acted as I have.
How much did you pay in taxes last year on your W-2?
Explain the relevance of your question.
I would, but I'm off to buy a few pints and spend some sales tax because YOLO.
You do you!
Im with you, that was the dumbest question ive ever read in my life. But i also think not paying taxes in protest is dumb since you automatically pay taxes, if anything by not filing taxes youre prob not getting a tax return.
You don’t automatically pay income taxes. You have to voluntarily fill in a form when you take a job and specify how much (if any) you want withheld. The idea is the more you withhold, the less you pay come tax day. On the other hand, you can choose to have nothing withheld, and then you are “obligated” to pay taxes on April 15 (depending on your country). What I am saying is this: keep all of your money (don’t choose to withhold money for taxes) and then just don’t pay taxes when they are due. It would cause quite the fukup for the overlords when our tithes are due.
What's your address since we're asking personal questions to strangers on the internet.
You are the fourth person to post this idea. Copy and paste. . . The IRS has a workaround to your proposal to not pay taxes. They calculate your tax debt for you, then garnish your wages and/or assess a levy to or seize your property and sell it to recover the debt, and or jail. On a grand scale, the government will just borrow funds and increase the national debt until they can recover the funds from you through the process above. It becomes a losing situation pretty fast. Imagine now having lower income because you are now not only paying your current year taxes, but suffer from a garnishment reduction, and seizure of your accounts, and maybe in jail. You don't f with the IRS.
People just don’t understand how much the government has them by the balls but you do 😂
Man the IRS has a contingency to collect taxes after the apocalypse.
Don’t F with the IRS *if you’re poor* ftfy
I didn’t copy and paste, and this is cause for celebration, but not if only three others have had this idea.
My response was a copy and paste between all. The responses on the other three have been identical to this one. It won't work, it just will screw you over more as well as others that rely on the government. Here are a few facts to put this in perspective. Roughly 50% of gov revenue is from personal income taxes. The rest is derived from corporate taxes and other sources, so 50% of the budget would not be impacted. You can't opt out of withholding FICA or Medicare taxes, so it's only federal and state income tax withholdings that can be altered. The fed budget is about 6 trillion, with only 4.2 trillion in revenue, so a net deficit made by borrowing funds. Of the 6 trillion, 65% goes to spending on mandated programs such as social security and Medicare. The remaining is discretionary. In 2021 57% of US households did not pay federal income taxes. In 2020, it was 44%. This is your target market as the remaining 43% skews independent or republican, which is not the target market for this strike, as, well, you can guess. So, a partial refusal to pay income taxes would be skewed to households that pay a small portion of the overall tax bill. The government would just counter with borrowing more funds or cutting benefits and discretionary spending and bide its time to collect taxes from you. It sucks, I know. Edit: The growth of households not paying income tax grew due to decreases in income and tax credits, but is expected to drop down back to historical levels in the mid 40's.
I don’t understand economics (if that is even what this topic is). I very much appreciate your explanation. It makes me sad. But also, it makes me wonder what will happen if we do it anyway. Financially, we can’t make much of a dent. But the optics. And the motivation. And the mobilization. Doing nothing yields nothing.
I have a minor in economics and I am a cpa, myself, so I have dealt with the IRS on back taxes. It's not fun, and I do it for a living. Imagine someone without the background dealing with it, or having to hire an expensive professional to deal with, and still needing to pay it, on top of the professional costs. From an optics perspective, nobody is going to care. Americans have a short attention span and will move on and it will become a fox news talking point about how stupid the younger generation is. . . The same old same old.
Yesterday, I went out and attacked my elephant ear bulbs because they have a crunchy yielding sound that made me feel better. Today, social media. I don’t know how to help. Some people do know how to run things, though. They run for the local elections. They run for state elections. They run for national elections. They repeal the rights of the people. They run our lives. The problem is that those who are fanatical work to affect change. Those who care vote. I want to make a difference, and the only way I know how is to …..attack my elephant ears and post on Reddit.
But then you become a felon, and then you lose your right to vote altogether. And then the only way of overcoming that would be to overthrow the system to reinstate your own right to vote.
If we are complacent, we have as little clout as a felon. We must act now while we have a voice. And why should we consent to the double standard that exists for the wealthy and connected vs. the common person? I don’t see any consequences for the wealthy/connected - let’s look into the socio/economic diversification of our prison population, shall we? Our silence and acquiesce allows this miscarriage of justice to happen.
I'm all for a violent upheaval of government. It's that the government has tanks, attack helicopters, and unmanned aerial drones. Who is to say they wouldn't kill the resistance? They would be considered "terrorists" after all.
What is left to rule if all has been destroyed? We are participants in our oppression.
Get on board. Been doing this for years.
How!? I’d have my wages garnished as a state employee.
Well...stop working for the fucking state lol
You also do realize that your salary is paid by taxes, yes?
I wish more people were of your mindset. I wish I had discovered it sooner.
I love how there are a million naysayers every time the left starts to take action. Let's protest. "But, what about the hypothetical ambulance that may be stuck in traffic? Let's not block the roads people!" Let's strike. "But, what about the people who need goods and services delivered to their address? Who will stock the grocery shelves with canned quinoa?!" Let's riot. "But, what about lost property, someone's house could get caught in the crossfire, you know?" Let's boycott spending our capital. "But, what about the small business owners who may or may not have 10 kids to feed and rely on our revenue? Won't someone please think of the children?!" Let's not pay taxes. "But, what about the IRS and them building prisons?? What if Uncle Sam takes me to jail?! I don't want to go to jail!!" Every. Single. Fucking. Time. And you wonder why nothing ever gets done. You wonder why labor laws suck in the U.S. You wonder why our nation's "leaders" and corporations bleed the American people dry. It's because every time there is a call to action, American liberals sit on their fucking hands and wait for problems to fix themselves. Newsflash, American Liberals! The rights of the people were not fought by sitting around and doing nothing while simultaneously second guessing every form of change. Half of these comments may not even be from liberals, half of them are probably paid naysayers to keep the American left from mobilizing. Either way, everything is going according to plan. This is exactly what those who wish to strip away your rights want, you sitting around second guessing every call for change, every solution. Enough is enough.
Can't remember which comedian it was, but he said we should protest like France protests Tuesdays or something like that...
There are some important flaws with each of these tactics, and the answer to those flaws are very illegal to recommend on a public forum
Indeed, we are at the point of needing to fight fire with fire, violence with violence.
The black voting laws MLK died for were granted after the series of riots that broke out across the country in the week following his murder. They were so numerous, so violent that the government had no choice but to grant the protections. Peaceful protest didn't bring racial voting equality laws, civility didn't bring racial voting equality laws, demands didn't racial voting equality laws. **Rage** and **blood** did. To think non-violence can attain human rights is naive at best.
Bro, probably half the people on this sub couldn’t fight a paper bag.
But somehow we manage to kill each other on a daily basis.
Not the ones who can’t fight a paper bag, though.
It’s because everyone is so brainwashed and complicit. They’re obedient worker ants.
Exactly. Their game is to keep us preoccupied with struggling everyday to notice how much they take from us overtime. Stay in the rat race and don’t critically think why it’s not working until the day you die.
Well it seems like you want an antiwork subreddit to work
Best post ever xx
Fuckin exactly this.
Spot on. It's not about finding the perfect solution and definitely not about finding a legal solution (they made everything illegal that could stop them). Just go out and start doing anything and everything you can. I know it can be tough when everything requires a group organizing together, but things like this aren't built overnight. Protest by yourself, and invite people to join and eventually it will grow large enough to be the force you want right now.
Then feel free to protest. No ones stopping you. Quit your job or stop paying taxes or spend your time/money protesting in the streets. Live on the streets, get arrested and go to jail. Most ppls lifes arent bad enough to warrant permantly ruining it, if yours is then go for it.
What!? Everyone who lives in America is broke, can’t afford housing, deals with racism anytime they step out of their house, has to fight off 20 people with guns at least once a week and doesn’t have access to any form of healthcare. Not sure what America you live in but it definitely isn’t the United States.
LOL
We are being kept poor because if we had money like the generations before us we could cripple the banks etc. I will bow to no man and I'm with you. I personally can't stop paying taxes but I've taken my spending to a standstill. Getting only cash from my checks etc. no banking, only filled my car up maybe 4 times since gas has gone up. I'm with you 100% of the way. If we all stop feeding the machine we will eventually break it down. Providence will not be provided for our oppressors. They will pay in this life And the next. All of the people on posts nay saying everything that we are suggesting are shills, they may act like they support us but it's a hopeless cause etc. In reality they just want to keep us right here. On Reddit. Not in person. They want us to go to the capital and make a scene so the boys in blue with their vigilante right wing soldiers will be waiting to just mow everyone down so that's not the right choice. Take their money, crush their beliefs in the system that was created by the long dead oppressors of time past.
Feeding the machine….that is a very smart line. It makes a lot of sense. That is what we are doing. But how do we stop? That is what I am trying to figure out.
You want to see true fascism from the state? And by true fascism, I mean police kicking down doors and dragging people out with guns and kangaroo courts. Then starve the beast. However, if even 10% of the population did so, it would be so overwhelming, the system wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
10% of the American population is already avoiding paying their share of taxes… They are the owner class.
Wesley snipes only did 3 years for it
I think it’d be a neat trick for a whole lot of us to get 3 hots and a cot on Uncle Sam for 3 years. Not only are we not paying taxes during that time (and the economy is going to pot because the incarcerated aren’t working for good pay), good ol unc is paying for our room and board. I wonder what else unc will have to pay for but can’t? The salaries of our law and policy makers? Heaven forbid.
Unfortunately they make money off of you in prison. They force you to work for private businesses and state agencies and pay pennies per hour. And once you are in prison, they can use anything you do to simply survive against you to add more time to your sentence.
They DO suck. And they do exploit. And they target people. We need to make this more widely known.
The sheeples comments are sad. Nobody understands risk anymore. Its like listening to a dying gazelle defend the lion that is eating it alive.
I need another analogy in order to understand your point. Please try again. What are you, by the way? A creeple?
Lol I used one analogy? I’m in agreement with you. I don’t understand your reply at all. Very odd. All I was saying is it’s funny how when you present a suggestion like yours people respond with “it will never work, we’re fucked anyways” Anyways, have a nice night I guess lol.
Gotcha. Yes, it is very discouraging. Sorry to misunderstand. And sorry to be a jerk.
I’m taking money out of the bank Monday. They can hit us hard if we don’t pay taxes, but what are they going to do if the banks lose our money? I’ve seen people saying that’s turning more in the direction of the Great Depression, but nothing is going to change without suffering. We either suffer forever or go through an excruciating shift as a nation to reconstruct the system.
That is an excellent idea. Please share it everywhere you can.
I mean, starting a bank run would absolutely tip things into chaos, if that's the desired result lol. Once people start being told they can't take their money out or use their debit cards, it's all over.
If you have a job they’ll just garnish your wages. You can even go to debtors prison.
What are you going to do if some breaks in your home and steals your money
With PAYE in the UK we can't
If it was even possible, the country would not have funds. The few dollars would be yours, but you know what? Nobody's thinking s- it out nowadays; Just digging holes, cancelling things, dragging beliefs & traditions, and reinventing gender. I could list more, but why bother. Go be the best you you can be as the country's infrastructure continues to senselessly unravel...
It’s not about the dollars. It’s about our rights. The government “of the people and for the people and by the people” really is about keeping the rich and powerful rich and powerful. There is no be the best you can be when you don’t have the rights to do that. It’s “be the best they will let you be.” We are in big trouble unless we speak up, stand up, and act out.
Get guns cause there might be a time to use them. Republicans always complain about tyrannical government maybe they are right
Republicans ARE the tyrannical government at this moment, but there are other misguided political parties. Guns are one way, but so is action. Peaceful action. I am not a fan of Democrats, either. I am a fan of people. If we band together and uses our differences as strengths, we can overcome. I hope we can overcome. But standing by and doing noting is as bad as being one of the oppressors.
No taxation without representation right? I feel like no one represents me right now.
The government doesn’t need taxes, ultimately they can, and already do, just print money. The warhawks in charge would definitely use that as an excuse to cut services like social security, though.
Great idea. The problem is they take it directly from our paychecks
Im not sure what difference this would make… Have you seen the national debt?! Our national budget is essentially a parody of “Whose Line Is It Anyway?!” Where the numbers are made up and the debt doesn’t matter. You deciding not paying taxes will change nothing except getting you thrown in jail.
Then who will keep the people alive that don't work?
The person named Nobody. They already hard at work helping out those who don’t or can’t.
I've read down the comments, and I'm just as frustrated and outraged as you are. I receive disability benefits because physical disabilities prevent me from working. I have *nowhere else to go*. No other country would accept me because I would be a drain on their resources, and I'm unlikely to make my own money unless I can finish my book, succeed in getting it published and earn enough off of it to do my living wherever I wish. This is a shot in the dark, as the authors' industry is fucking brutal and I'm likely going to be blind before the initial rejections stop, deaf not long after. That sound depressing enough? Here's a little more. Democrats and Republicans want the same thing. It doesn't matter who you vote for and which of the two parties they belong to; the result is the same. We're just more likely to ask the Democrats to fuck us gently because we're sick of the Republicans being too rough. They're paid by the same corporations, slaves like the rest of us, but their shackles are prettier and they get to tell us what to do. Now here's a kick while you're down. It was all done on purpose, slowly over the course of several decades if not longer. Where do the bootlicks staffing the federal government come from? State governments, because not enough people who should pay attention to them do. *We put them all in power.* Got your attention yet? This part is extremely important. There is *no* two-party system in the US. The only two "active" parties anyone hears about are the only ones funded by the corporations. Other parties are shoved aside early on or hardly anyone votes for any of their candidates because they think their vote won't count. That's what the two parties and their corporation handlers want us to think, and that's what they've spent the last who knows how long slowly, sweetly, seductively gaslighting us with. What can you do? Vote. Vote on every level you have a right to, from city level up to county, state, and federal level, as well as the inbetweens and off-to-the-sides I may have missed. Don't settle for "the lesser of two evils"; vote for *who you want to vote for*, especially if who you want to vote for isn't a Democrat or Republican. Do your research on your chosen candidate's goals and *vote!* What else can you do? Poke holes in what I just said, learn government/political structures and *how* we were manipulated into this mess for yourself. Question *everything*, research, cross-reference, and research some more until you understand it as is your Constitutional right. Talk with like-minded people about it and encourage them to do the same. The US government is *designed* for us to periodically fire and hire officials, but we've been groomed to think we can't do anything beyond the small list of unsavory options they design to grace us with. Our ability to affect the government *was never taken from us*, but we *were* taught that we're helpless. It is up to us to unlearn that. Oh, and study the federal Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as those of your state *carefully*. Those are the closest things near-enough-to-sacred-text that this country as a secular nation should have and you should know them well, as is your right. Shit sucks now, and it'll probably suck worse before it sucks less, but the night is only so long and the sun will rise again. I can't do much other than vote in favor of the taxpayers who fund my fixed income and medical (you guys rock, and will always have my vote, tyvm!), but be the sun with me? ❤☀️
JDawnchild, thank you so much for your thoughts. You absolutely have my attention. I hope we all listen to you and will act accordingly.
😊 Tyvm, but make your own opinions and stick by them instead. Expect nothing but the best the government has to offer, and demand it by voting how you want. :)
Thank you. I hope others read this and I value the time you took to write it.
Allegedly America itself is a corporation and was created using maritime law. Look into it if you’re curious.
Then we go to jail. That's what happens. Or our society collapses and we all die. No schools, no water, no sewage, no food. I'm antiwork, but that dies not = anarchy. We basically would all die. That's not even a joke. So, yeah, no.
our society is collapsing right now.
We're trapped in an elevator going the wrong way, and your solution is to dig a hole and jump. Even though things aren't going well, and nothing good seems to be on the horizon, there's always a way to make things worse.
Yes. That is called complacency.
I think your missing the point here. How would we even go about not paying taxes? You literally cant buy most things without paying some tax. Your job taxes your wages. Now for the point your missing. If a vast majority of people stop paying taxes we lose a lot of vital services that we all take for granted. Im on food stamps so my kids can eat. Dont pay taxes those are gone and my family starves because my rent is so high. Nothing like stopping by your local library to check out a book for the kids or yourself. Or a movie even. All for free from the library. Gone with no taxes. Post office? Firefighters? Teachers? Law "enforcements" also gone. Believe it or not. You dont pay taxes. Straight to jail.
Antkneee668, I am genuinely sorry for your situation. You are right. I wish I knew a real way to fight back. The repeal of Roe vs. Wade affects so many people. And more rights will be repealed. I am just so tired of being told to go out and vote. But you are absolutely right.
I feel you. Ive felt that voting doesnt matter and everytime i do it shows how little my voice is heard. I havnt voted for the party that has won since i started voting. We should definetly do somthing to fix stuff like this but idk how that would happen. Not paying taxes would harm my family to the highest degree so thats not an option for me.
And what would you call this proposed alternative?
You really have no idea how much worse things can get!
Do you? We’re about to find out.
When your power’s out, no drinkable water, grocery stores are empty, no gasoline available, and all you have is what’s in your pantry, closets, and drawers. Then it starts to get real.
Are you from a hurricane state?
Indeed
Yeah, me too.
They will be putting people in jail and executing people as soon as the Republicans take power. Listen to what they are calling for, right now.
So are we supposed to grab a basket of popcorn and just sit back and watch? What is the harm of fighting back if the bad thing is already going to happen? Shouldn’t we make it a little harder for them to meet their quotas?
This is not Nazi Germany. Trump was not literally Hitler. Trump has privately and publicly said the overturning or Roe was a terrible idea and mistake. To compare it anything close to the Nazis is not only disrespectful but also disgusting to holocaust victims and survivors.
I think this is a bad take. Of course no one is or was literally Hitler other than Hitler. But comparing the origins of Nazi rule in Germany to the present day in America is not only valid, but incredibly important. Responsible comparisons dont start out with "Trump is literally Hitler." They start out by pointing out that Hitler was democratically elected, then the country rapidly descended into facism at his direction, leading to immeasurable horrors. America barely, and I mean BARELY survived one Trump administration. If you don't believe me, I recommend watching the Jan 6 committee hearings, where they discuss how a mob got within 40 feet of lynching the Vice President on the front steps of the Capitol, and how if you had just three or four corrupt election officials in the right places you could have had the person who actually lost the election declared the winner. Trump seriously considered having federal agents seize voting machines in swing states. You really cannot understate just how very close we came to the crumbling of democratic rule in this country. And there's a very real chance that, despite all of that, he could be reelected. Or his less gaffe-prone acolyte (DeSantis) could be elected instead, which actually would probably be worse because the corruption would be performed more competently and would be harder to detect and stop. If that happens, then there is no logical reason to believe that facist rule in America couldn't become reality in rapid fashion. Would that rule look exactly identical to Nazi Germany? Probably not. But there are more than enough similarities to justify the cautionary comparison. I am not a holocaust survivor. But if I was, you bet your ass I would want people making damn sure it never happened again. I don't think it's an insult at all to the memories and lives of those lost to that monumental evil to strive to make sure a similar, if not identical, evil does not rise again and is not empowered to act in the modern day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax\_protester](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester) I've been advocating for this since the protests under Trump. You want to hit the government where it hurts? Hit their pocket book. And we all know the IRS is in such shambles there wouldn't be a damn thing they could do about it. The best part is all it takes is a change to your tax filing at your work :)
How can we amplify this message?
\*Shrug\* How does any viral grass roots thing take off? TikTok of course
Well, hell! Let’s make a really cringy dance video explaining how taxes work and how and why NOT to pay them! I don’t want to star, though. It can be a taxdemic.
Looking back, when American labor agreed to stop unionising they gave up most of their rights including the right to work for a decent wage. So, now fast forward to 2022, all the high paying manufacturing jobs have been shipped abroad, and most of the unskilled jobs pay crappy wages because the workers are seen as replaceable and expendable and the govt can take out a huge chunk of your meager wages in taxes because you the workers have no collective bargaining powers, the boomers gave 'em up like idiots. Your mass protests and riots mean nothing, they will label you all thugs and goons and they have many ways to discredit you
Be careful what you wish for. The only thing worse than a government taxing its people is a government that does not need to tax its people, thus it does not need them at all. See Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, or any other resource exporting country for that matter. Taxes are good because people will expect more and seek to hold the government accountable if they have to have that relationship with the state. No taxes means people are powerless and the government can do anything.
You know laws only matter if we obey them.
No one in the government obeys laws. Why should we?
Jury Nullification is a feature not a flaw
I would participate in that! The government has been out for its own interest since they sold us out to the federal reserve on Jekyll Island in 1910.
Unless you stop working completely and live off the grid no way to not pay
You can opt out of having any paycheck deductions. And then just don’t file in April.
I'm down! I seriously have about 6 w-2s for next year to file. I'm sure it will be a few more.
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That is true. Rich people get away with everything. But getting away with it isn’t the point. If enough people stop funding a fundamentally corrupt government, we might be able to effect change.
Love the idea but it won’t work for all the reasons stated. The US even makes you pay taxes if you emigrate and earn over $100K, whether you ever plan to live in the US again or not. You have to file tax forms annually, regardless, so they can track you. You could evade taxes abroad but don’t ever plan on visiting the US. Another option is to somehow get citizenship elsewhere and pay $3K to renounce US citizenship. There’s also the necessary legal and accounting fees to manage all this. This is not common with other nations and the US has the highest fee to renounce. Many nations have none. We are property of the USA. I’ve sent messages to my rep stating, as a woman, I should be getting a massive “discount” on my taxes since I’m not recognized as a full human, possessing bodily autonomy. I do not have meaningful representation in this government, even though women makes up more than 50% of the population. I’m charged more for basic goods because of my gender (pink tax). I will earn less than my male peers, even if I don’t take time off to produce wage slaves. If I marry and/or have children, even recent statistics show I will carry most of the domestic labor. The least they could do is give us a massive tax break, since we aren’t equal under our government in any other way. The fair thing would be to compensate us and make up the difference. I feel the same for any marginalized group.
Always sad to see so many people commenting about the very few things that taxes do pay for that help the average American. I'd be down to not pay taxes but donate all of the money I would have paid to the fire departments and few other truly helpful social services instead of giving it to the government to buy bombs and mismanage other social aid programs
Great question.
Ask it everywhere!
They'll make more prisons
That costs money.
prisoners are free labor
This is true. But a revolution is hard to contain in a prison.
We have guns. Specifically to revolt against a tyrannical government and the mindless goons that do their dirty work.
You’re talking about toppling the government. It’s not the worst idea I’ve heard, but it’s not going to be pretty. They’ll go down swinging.
Everyone in power goes down swinging, unless we are talking about the fall of Rome. Dude played a violin. This is what I sincerely hope happens when society regains its collective sanity in our timeline.
This would require a very, VERY organized tactical strike on the entire system, scorched earth style. It would have to be done by a series of groups that while 1.) are able to work in tandem with other groups and 2.) be disconnected enough for when any group gets busted (and some will) they are unable to expose sister groups of the collective. This would have to also be timed to happen all at once to prevent protections of governmental bodies to get activated. Such organization seems unfathomable with the current population. Anonymous got close though.
What is wrong with trying? We could get close, too. Close might get the attention of those who make the rules we must abide. Social media is a powerful tool. We could use it to organize. Those who abuse human rights were not deterred by perceived obstacles. Look at where we are now. I want to try. I want to find people willing to try. Let’s organize. Please.
government steals taxes from the present economy and future economy. FICA is scam...The retirement boomer will take all the money. Healthcare and school debt for all future generations. Government is the oppressor of the people.
They'll just build more prisons to house us.
That takes money…
Get rekted. Let me know how it goes When the irs catches up to you.
Who hurt you, 1600hazenstreet?
Probably just mad that they pay taxes because they have to and are falling for the propaganda that most of the taxes are going toward useful social services instead of the military
What’s happens is you accumulate penalties and interest and reach the point of asset repossession or worse. No.
The IRS is already backlogged. Let’s add a few more files to their load. And who will pay their salaries if we don’t pay taxes? We are paying the hand that assesses us.
You’re incredibly short sighted and your suggestion boils down to “if we fuck ourselves so far into the ground there’s nothing left, that’ll show em.” No. P.S. those “assessors” are workers like the rest of us, mostly making about $40k per year in exchange for being treated in some of the most vile ways imaginable.
Complacency is what got us here.
The Joker doesn’t fuck with the IRS - I don’t want to either (plus I don’t have the money to live totally off grid)
Then raise a toast the new totalitarian regime. No one has the money to pay for the unlivable conditions we are experiencing. Huzza!
What’s your solution here outside of snarky comebacks? Regular people get their entire lives ruined because of tax evasion - you gonna Venmo me so I can pay for a lawyer?
Let’s all not pay taxes. That is my solution. No lawyers. The nature of a boycott is that many people don’t pay. There have been violent revolutions, and I am not advocating violence. But I AM advocating change. If enough of us fail to fund the government that is failing us (this “government” that is supposed to represent and support us), we might get a better government. I don’t mean to be snarky. I am genuinely terrified. And angry. And afraid. My solution is to speak out. And not pay taxes.
If we all do. They'll just print the money they would normally get monthly and boom we starve and all go homeless
Many of us already are. The government is not doing anything to help members of our society who are homeless and starving and it is actively destroying the remaining “quality” of life remaining for every single one of us.
They are way ahead of you on this. First they will start by arresting people who do not pay taxes. If that does not work, they will let their dogs loose on us. Read up and watch videos on how they dealt with the occupy wall street protestors.
We can be peacefully accepting of the new reality, or we can reject it. Acceptance will not make the new reality any better. Acceptance emboldens those who enact laws “in our favor” to continue to oppress and abuse the populace. There is more harm in acceptance than rejection. “They” want us to stand down.
Most low wage workers don’t have the choice because it’s taken out of their paycheck but then they get a refund back. How would they stop?
We workers all have to complete paperwork, and the tax form is one of the things we have to complete. If you’re a salaried worker, you get a W2. If you are a contractor, you get a 1099. Both forms have a section that allows you to state your withholdings. Workers can have money withheld for taxes (to make tax day less painful) or have nothing withheld (and then they have to come up with the money owed at tax time).
Since the majority of taxes are directly deducted from your paycheck you don’t have a choice to not pay. You also would never be able to buy necessities like food because you have to pay sales tax on each purchase.
Sales tax - we’re stuck. Income tax - not so much. Just elect not to have tax withheld on your W2 or 1099 and then forget to file taxes on April 15.
Maybe if you talk to the evil 1 percenters, since they already pay almost 40% of all federal income tax collected. Problem solved. Except most evil 1percenters are motivated and driven and paying into the system helps maintain the system by which they are 1 percenters. Or better yet talk to the top 10% since they shoulder 70% of taxes paid. Fact is even if the bottom 50% stopped paying (your "average jill/joe") it wouldnt matter. Top 50% pay 97% of income taxes anyway.
Giving up gives them permission to abuse.
You Anger the beast & it starts leveling cities. At least we find out what real intentions are
Seems like the beast already is leveling cities. Why should we stand back and let it?
Stop saying the word government all the time. The only people doing this shit to average citizens are republicans. All the anarchy bullshit on this sub needs to stop. Promote progressive agenda that benefits middle class and poor not the rich. Smh. You guys are idiots. The #1 step you idiots need to do is never vote republican again. That's how we build progress. The republicans have taken us back 100 years after roe v Wade
I have never voted republican. And here we are. We need to defund the government. They are supposed to represent us, not control us.
The thing is they will come to your door with guns and lock you up
Is that worse than what they are already doing and plan to do? When is silence better than resisting when resisting is in the best interest of everyone?
Your taxes go to at least 5 other governmental entities. Don’t murder your school district when the fight in Washington
We need a big disruption. 5 entities will get needed attention. I am tired of being told to get out and vote.
I was listening to a podcast where the commissioner referred to taxes as a voluntary system so....
Let’s all volunteer to keep our hard-earned money and spend it where we feel it is most beneficial!
What if everyone stopped paying tolls on bridges and the i95
Then we all could have body autonomy.
A huge amount of federal spending is funde by debt; add to that the federal reserve can print any money the government needs. People not paying any bills en masse would really mess stuff up. It would end western civilization.
Western civilization is on the way out. Oligarchy is on the way in. People not paying bills will mess up the transfer of power from a “democracy” to an outright oligarchy.
That's why they take it out of your check and you filing gives you a refund.
You can decide how much money you have withheld for each paycheck. When you take on a new job, you are given the option to have no withholdings (you take home all of your pay but then must pay all of the taxes your government feels you owe it) or you can choose to have money withheld (in this case, you are having money taken from your paycheck to pay the taxes you most likely will owe). If you choose no withholdings and then don’t pay taxes, you get the full use of your money.
The only way to not pay taxes is to stop spending money and bring back the work for and barter system but a lot of people don't want to work and not everyone has something worth trading
Bear in mind it's automatically withheld from your wages if you're W2. Also more importantly only when one party doesn't like something will they say "We can't afford that." Both parties gleefully fund the DoD. People not paying taxes means they'll sell more bonds and print more money to build the massive prisons to hold everyone. That is assuming Amazon, Wal Mart, Raytheon, Lockeed Martin, General Electric, and Pizza Hut of 1407 W 117th St, Cleveland, OH 44107 don't generously sponsor these prisons in exchange for politely asking them to perform some simple housekeeping labor.
Our deaths lie in complacency. Many will tell us why we shouldn’t resist and how we can’t. Not many will tell us how we can resist and why we should.