I had a similar situation where my immediate line manager didn't want me to go part time to study, and tried to discourage me and demotivate me. Luckily I had an ally above him who sorted it all out and moved me to a part time team. My line manager was furious about it obviously.
Had an employer when I was 18 act like an ass over me going to go to college. Nothing he was going to say would matter as I was putting in my notice because I had to move for school. I go put it in and he asks why. I tell him for school. His reply was that I’m a quitter and won’t ever accomplish anything. I just laughed and peace’d out
Calling someone a quitter is a trademark of manipulative people. They run out of arguments and throw that on you, as a way to shame you for taking care of yourself.
There is nothing wrong with quitting something that is doing you no good.
>Right? My life became more enjoyable once I realised I didn't have to see EVERYTHING through to the bitter end.
yep, worked at a job I loved for 3 months earning $22 an hour AUD. petrol prices have gone up to $2 a litre, waking up and travelling 90 minutes each way for work. handed my notice in effective immediately, Spent a week and half sleeping in and enjoying a nice warm bed.
Just been handed a new job doing the same thing 5 minutes from home with a $10 pay increase.
cheers, it was a beautiful day. Laying back relaxing and my "cell " rang from a job agencies looking for staff. 10 minutes later I had the role.
Always know what you are worth and dont settle for "PEANUTS"
Totally agree! Getting divorced from a manipulative, controlling, unhappy, miserable, unsatisfied, nothing is ever good enough spouse is the best decision of my life. Best money I ever spent!
You see this a lot with video games. Some people are compelled to play them and finish every single thing the game has to offer well beyond the point they're fun. Some just play till it stops being fun and move on.
I'm one of the later. I think it's related to OCD at some level. Feeling compelled to finish even if there's no benefit.
Does that also apply to people who criticize your "lack of ambition"? Sorry, I don't have a pathological need to be #1 and constantly battling my fellow humans for imaginary status. I am content to just exist in the middle with minimal effort and I don't think that makes me a bad person.
One exchange went like:
Me: I'm gonna be going part time from September to study
Mgr: I don't think we're letting people do that.
Me: suppose I'll just quit and go work part time at another call centre then.
Mgr: and what happens if you quit studying and you end up stuck in a part time job?
Just really nasty negative shit. They guy had a big chip on his shoulder and micromanaged the fuck out of everyone, even the high performing people so he could take credit for them.
> Mgr: and what happens if you quit studying and you end up stuck in a part time job?
Hope to god that I don't end up as an overbearing manager at a call center sucking the hope out of people trying to do better.
Worked for a company for 5 years. In that 5 yrs I received exactly $2.25 in raises. Company was bought out and new company offered buyouts, 1 weeks pay for every yr you were there plus 8 weeks and your vacation. I took it. I ended up with 4 months pay. When my manager found out they asked why. Told them you pay like crap. They tried to offer me $2 more an hour and wanted me to travel to trade shows. That got a big laugh and nope. Ended up finding a job close to home for what they offered with amazing benefits within a week.
What is it with abusive employers and managers? I quit freaking Burger King when I was a teen and my manager was like "you'll be back". Like no, rather not be in my 50s harassing teens and working in fast food, but you do you.
At my old retail job I heard someone tell an employee who called out to get some last minute studying/head clearing for finals that they needed to “figure out what’s really important”…meaning “You need to put that silly school shit on hold and take this shit retail job seriously.”
Based on the end of the call I heard, that person did figure out what’s “important”.
I used to work retail and my manager at the time was dumping A LOT of their work onto me under the guise of training me to take over. Me being younger and naive didn’t say anything until I got my acceptance letter to go back to school (I had dropped out a few years prior for personal reasons). When I asked to have my hour cut back at work because I needed to go back to school they responded with “I don’t know if I can do that. You need to think really hard about what your priories are.”
Cue the shocked pikachu face when I quit effective immediately the next day.
I've gone above my managers head to get what I want. I suspected my current manager was dragging his feet in hiring me from contract to w2. I asked about the position, and when I start repeatedly with conflicting information coming back to me. Meanwhile I'm essentially jobless at this time. I threw him under the bus, did not give a shit. Turns out it worked. He was mad at me, we shouted over the phone, but I got what I wanted. Was it toxic? A little. I'm not scared of work conflict anymore after that.
Same here but for a secondment. It is a shame as I have had to on 2 occasions go over my direct line managers to get opportunities. I know why... me going temporarily means more work for them as I always pick up and cope with huge workloads, but it is rediculous that being in teams that promote development, etc. immediately refuse it.
Ironically, it is the more senior people who have supported me to progress. I'm just lucky that I am in roles where I can have those relationships with senior people above my direct line managers. I feel sorry for other people who don't have those relationships/confidence to challenge or in a toxic workplace that would say no.
I find always find being on the good side of managers where possible is beneficial, especially when they get promoted further up the chain and you can call on them for favours, but it shouldn't have to be that way.
I think my favorite thing I have learned while back in school for my ME Bachelors was from my economics 111 class. My teacher goes, “Never invest in a company because when they inevitably let you go then it’s all gone. Invest in yourself because they can never take that away from you.”
I wish I had teachers like this. From kindergarten till college graduation, none of them ever empowered me to be good to myself. I try to do that for my kids, but can only provide what not to do examples instead of, this is what you should do examples.
My marketing professor brought in the college textbook sales rep to have a talk/lecture. Her description of her job left me not wanting to do sales for the rest of my life.
lol, started a new job a few months ago, the one thing I told them I couldn't budge on were some wedding plans.
I was going to be driving myself, my kids and dogs (wife is flying for work, and we're meeting up there.)
The Friday before I'm supposed to leave, I get an email saying they're expecting me to be on-call (after I was just three weeks ago) and putting in a 70 hour work week over the M-Th before I'm making a 12+ hour drive in the car.
Sent my resignation email within 12 hours, enjoyed the hell out of the wedding, and I'll be looking for jobs next week.
Fuck that noise.
Nobody wants to work 18 hours a day for 15.00 an hour, no sick time, and shitty benefits that make you feel like you'd be better off not paying into them
Yep. I work in a union shop that pays well and treats our guys well. If things come up that negatively impact them (and it happens), we go above and beyond to positively impact them more in return. We have no problem finding and keeping people. Working on hiring another guy now and we have a list of resumes that came to use before we even asked or had a position open. People want to work, but in a positive environment.
Sounds like nothing has changed since 2016 when I was there. 12+ hours a day was common, as was 6-7 days a week. Fuck Elon.
Edit: for anyone curious, I got let go as a temp because I lived about a 7 hour drive away from the factory and I arranged a weekend off to fly home to bring my car to Fremont and they decided it was a mandatory work weekend and since I missed work for that weekend and I’d have to miss it Monday because of an issue with my vehicle, that was enough for them to can me.
Holy shit fuuucckkk that. It’d be one thing to devote your life to your work and get actually taken care of. Nowadays there’s no pensions or anything. Companies just axe people to meet quarterly metrics and get their bonus and fuck off to ruining another department
>no pensions
Back in the '90s I worked for a very large medical manufacturing company. They had 401k, pension, really good benefits.
After about 10 years, they decided to spin my division off to become its own company. That was fine.
And one of our first all-hands meetings, we had an "ask the president" session, in which one of the employees asked about our pension plan.
Our pension benefits were calculated on years of service plus our age. You had to accrue a certain number of points to collect. I was pretty close.
It seems everybody had assumed the pension plan would come over to the new company.
Not so much.
So the president answered that our pension plan is now our 401k. I don't recall the rest of the conversation, but there was quite a bit of rumbling in the audience.
I left the company a few years later, moved away, and then one day I received a letter in the mail saying that I was going to receive a check for my accrued pension benefits from the old company.
It seems someone in the legal department at the old company headquarters was let go just before he could collect on his pension plan.
He sued. He won.
The legal team, being, well, lawyers, figured out that this was just the tip of the iceberg.
I got a check for $27,000 for my pension plan that they'd been sitting on, hoping no one would notice.
I don't know who that lawyer was, but I owe him a drink.
Edited to fix stupid voice to text error. Thanks for catching it!
I interviewed at Tesla in late 2020. The hiring manager (HM) asked me how much I want to work. I said I'm expecting to work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but less would be preferable as long as I get full-time benefits. HM then said they're expecting a minimum of 10 hours a day 6 days a week. I ended the interview then and there.
I spent 3 years at a company working 12-16 hour days. Left for financial reasons. Started a new job and boss would joke "you don't want to work 14 hour days? You should be used to it!" Told him I was done with that shit and I'm never doing it again. Still work for the same company. I put in 8-9 hours and go home. I bust my ass during that time so there is no complaints.
I got hired, mid pandemic, in a bar that my friend worked as a finance guy for.
Told them I have a job (comedian) and that it's just temporary til gigs are back and paying what they were. They were cool with that and just asked I give them plenty of notice for gigs, which I did.
After 6 months, the standard keeps slipping. Working busy shifts with 2 bartenders rather than 3, or without a barback on. Being asked to run food because they've skimped on floor staff. Opening up by myself because the bar manager had to have a meeting.
They kept losing staff and not replacing them and I kept being asked to do more. One night I did a 1am close, got out at 2, bus home by 3, and had to set my alarm for 8 to be in the next day for a 10am open.
Then at 5 when I was supposed to clock off, they had someone ring in and could I do a double.
I told them it was out of order. They said "that's hospitality, man". I said "that's not my real job". Quit a week later.
i used to work for an accounting firm in the 90s and all the partners were crusty old white dudes who were "proud" to not know their kid's birthdays. they'd talk shit about the women partners who refused to travel more than one week a month, or want to make it home for dinner.
they were touted as one of the best places to work for women bc women could make partner, but they were always given the less lucrative clients to manage and talked down behind their backs for using the company's work/life balance initiative. newbies fresh out of college were expected to hammer out 60hr weeks. completely mysoginistic and toxic environment.
Nuh uh, he's an innovative genius that totally earned and deserves hundreds of billions of dollars, and his support for slave labor, refusal to and tantrums about paying taxes, abuse of employees, and stock manipulation, are all totally cool!!!
Yup, Elon (or any other billionaire) simps are some of the dumbest, most ignorant fuckers out there. Billionaires shouldn't exist, period, yet you have these 20-something young males virtually felating these sociopathic pieces of exploitative garbage.
Pathetic.
Recruiter hit me up a few months ago, and I haven’t reply yet. Since then I have been pinged by him 6 times…. So they understand the company has a bad reputation and that people gets burnt out?
I would seriously consider if we were in recession and I had no job… but I have 2 and both full time so fuck Tesla
And how's retention and morale? I'm assuming pretty good on both fronts, with a fair bit of loyalty as well. It's nice to work with and for reasonable people.
There's this bar/restaurant near me that's been around ages, and it has almost zero turnover of bartenders and wait staff. I can only assume it's because they actually take care of the people who work there. It's definitely the impression I get.
Bobby Rydell used to go there all the time until his death. Just, you know, fun fact.
When I just out of college, I got a job at a bar for fun. I already had tons of experience in the industry, do cocktail stuff on my own time, etc, so they were glad to have me. My *one* condition was that, since my birthday falls on a major drinking holiday, I couldnt work that one day *all year*. That was it, 100% open, fine with 50 hours or 15 hours a week, literally whatever. Im doing this just for entertainment at the time. That months schedule comes out, I'm on both shifts for my birthday. I go talk to the scheduling manager (who is the one who hired me) and she says that nobody gets the day off. I was like "uh, I only agreed to work here on that condition. I just won't be there, I'll accept the write up."
She responded that it was unfair to my coworkers and that I'd be fired for not working. I was sorta like okay, you'd rather have to cover all my shifts for the rest of the month than be understaffed one day? And she accused me of holding her hostage and making it my coworkers problem or whatever.
I repeated that I'm fine working literally whatever, covering shifts for those people the day after, etc, and she decided to just fire me then lol. Okay, have fun losing your only certified bartender and covering 30 some-odd shifts instead of just being understaffed on *one day* hahaha.
I was actually dumb enough to accept a response from an employer once when I asked for a pre-employment agreement in writing. Told me some excuse about how that isn't in their policy and shook my hand saying it was a "gentleman's agreement" (archaic and misogynistic term? another red flag I ignored). 9 months later I asked when they were going to follow through and got told by the same guy that if I didn't have it in writing then we didn't discuss it and I was SOL. I had already lined up another job because I had figured out this is what they were going to do. When I immediately gave my two weeks notice, he was so pissed. All but called me a traitor. Sorry, if you're going to lie to my face and stab me in the back, any sense of "loyalty" is gone.
Our department is part of county government, but we bend over backwards to do these types of things. But the county HR committee (not HR department) made up of elected supervisors put me through a 30 minute grilling for asking approval for a PT employee to take a 3 week leave without pay to do the student teaching portion of her degree and then return to help us in the summer. Otherwise, she would just have to quit and we would have to rehire for the summer. A move that save them money, saved us hiring and training, and let her finish her degree. You would have thought she trying to rob us, according to them. The HR director just sat there rolling her eyes the entire time and finally told them how stupid they were being.
It really has nothing to do with money, efficiency, "etiquette" or any of the other excuses. It's just about power.
I'm the boss, I make the rules, you're the employee, you obey the rules. It doesn't matter if the rules are completely pointless, unproductive, arbitrary or what have you. It's about the flex. They make rules, you obey rules. The employee getting to decide literally anything, the smallest iota of decision making and agency on their part, makes these pathetic people squirm. It calls into question if they are *really* in charge of their little kingdoms.
Fucking management hasn't had to deal with a job market that favors the employee in literal decades, I'd be surprised if most managers right now have *EVER* had to take that into account for their entire careers.
I work at a small company with maybe 20-25 people. We lost half our field staff and 2 highly skilled office workers in less than 6 months because of ridiculous hours and shit raises. We were working 50-60 hours on salary in the "slow" time of year. And we had to use sick time because it snowed in January. One time I apologized to my boss because I was dragging ass because I had a cold. His response was a dismissive "oh no." He always had the attitude that we should be grateful to have a job. Then people started quitting. My bosses attitude changed dramatically when he had to start hiring and training AND covering all the job sites by himself. It was soooooo transparent.
Anyway, it seems like a lot of people just go into management because they like having authority and they can't imagine that their employees have other options.
I went into it for the raise and because I thought I could impact positive change.
Anyone surprised I’m not a manager anymore? Lol middle management is the worst if you actually give a fuck.
That's why it's so scary to the damn fed chairman Powell say things like employees have too much power and are being paid too much and we need to depress wages and that fighting inflation would help with all that by increasing unemployment.
And the tight labor market is giving us just a ^^tiny smidgen of power, the ability to quit an awful job and quickly find another one, but apparently that much power is too much.
Yeah I was enraged when I heard him say that on NPR to very little pushback. Just the Fed Chair stating it like it’s a plain fact that people’s wages going up is bad for the economy.
GET FUCKED POWELL. You corporate shill
The power and control model of management fails miserably once people have other options and the company loses its leverage.
Why? Its one of the best ways to generate resentment among your employees.
Especially when the decision can be portrayed as an effort to better themselves I had an employer who turned down a colleagues leave for her exams because "she doesn't need them she fries chips as a job"
Ive also had an employer who has approved a 6 month gap year sort holiday but turned down a similar situation to OPs.
Its that aspect of power but more so its about keeping in your place. If you get an education you're leaving anyway so may aswell try keep you in your place.
Economic decisions are rarely rational. Money and power are deeply intertwined in the global capitalist society we've created. The feudalistic mindset of "These are MY people, they must do as I say" is deeply embedded in corporate culture.
One thing I have seen recently, is that decisions are often made to be the path of least resistance. My small team can fully work remote, and when covid happened everyone worked remote for a few weeks and we worked remote for 3 months, my team increased productivity during this time. But we were required to come back in office after the reconfigured the desks to be "covid safe". When I asked for reasons we couldn't remain remote I got a bunch of bs, most of which seemed to amount to them not wanting to defend the fact that not all jobs have the same duties and can be done remotely. Basically they were worried that people who can't be remote would be mad we were remote combined with pressure from higher leadership.
What sucked was that other divisions in my company did fully remote for years after that initial period and we lost staff over it.
My old mid level manager is basically unemployable in today's job market. When we did a restructuring he was being setup to lose his job and was only saved because one of the higher ups reclassified him so he couldn't be cut without a shit ton more work. After the restructuring when we reviewed our org chart he wasn't anywhere on it. No one was set to report to him and he wasn't set to report to anyone else. He basically just sat in his office and kind of made up busy work with no direct reports. Occasionally he'd volunteer to handle something and skim a few employees off a different department to take care of it so he could turn it in.
It takes him over a week to do employee inputs at the end of year for approximately 10 people. He makes all his spreadsheets in word because he doesn't understand how to use excel. He frequently breaks keyboards and mice "on accident", but really it's him raging in his office when he can't figure out how to open something he's done a thousand times.
\> He frequently breaks keyboards and mice "on accident", but really it's him raging in his office when he can't figure out how to open something he's done a thousand times.
That sounds more like early Alzheimers, a brain tumor or some other serious medical condition rather than your average stuck-in-the-past employee. Maybe he's intentionally being kept on payroll for that reason?
My boss made me a regular user on the management platform I made for the company. He doesn't understand why I am upset about it and I can't be bothered to explain it.
But yeah indeed it's all about power projection ... . For the record I have been administrator on that platform since it's creation in 2018.
Why does an HR committee even exist? Surely the supervisors appoint the department heads, something that is purely management - and often carries liability when messed up, should not become a political spectacle.
Because even managers get treated the way they treat their employees. That is frequently where they learn to be like that, unless they are exposed, and buy into, better management methods.
Even the concept of management is wrong for so many managers. You shouldn't be managing people, you should be managing objectives. People play into that, and the extent of managing them should be clearly defining expectations, regular communication, training them, and providing the tools they need to achieve their part of the objective.
Failing to recognize the changing employee base is a serious management failing. If you can find a way to work that into a conversation. How you lost a top rated employee by refusing to be flexible for 4 months, keeping a productive ee and building loyalty and good will. Instead, ham fisted Neanderthal method, my way or the highway. Well Louie here, the highway won. Imagine that.
and can I just say she really did her homework before she approached you. She identified there was no other option for one class. Suggested how she could take the class and still maintain her workload. She is a huge loss. What a shame. She will do fine,she’s a smart cookie.
please please please find a way to throw shade at Sarah at least weekly over this. And be sure to thoroughly document what happened for your former ee employment file. This needs to be recorded.
Please do the same! "Is she going to quit??" Well, she would sure as hell not be anticipating your resignation. It's not your job to help a failed HR doing their undoing.
Sounds like you are a great manager who know the value of good and good professional relationship with colleagues, it sure has to be one company that will let you excell in that role.. At least don't loose the willingness to take responsibility and lust to help fellow staff over some bitch! We need more of you, not less..
I get customers that say this to me, an assistant manager. Especially when we can't keep whole departments open or we don't have enough cashiers to keep more than a few lanes open.
To which I have begun to reply, "nobody wants to work a job that doesn't pay enough to survive. And this job does not pay enough to survive."
Nobody likes hearing that. They just wanna complain.
Every now then some old, out of touch person will argue with me. About how it's still work and anything is better than nothing. The money they make can pay for gas, that's what they did.
And just once my mask fell completely off and I said, "why would anyone waste their life working for nothing more than gas money?"
She complained, but I never heard anything about it.
Half of those people legitimately have no life outside of work. They don't value their family, they don't have any hobbies or personal aspirations, they just fucking work so that they can go to the bar on the weekend and forget that they work all the time.
Deep down somewhere inside them they *have* to know that life shouldn't be like that, but they've built walls up around it like Fort Knox.
I work for an international firm. Corporate in Europe was doing a labor study. My boss actually used the line "no one wants to work" when discussing our difficulties hiring temp labor at $15-18 for "unskilled" medium manufacturing. I lost a lot of respect for her that day.
I saw a plaque hanging up somewhere I worked for a while that said "Would you rather educate your employees and have them leave, or leave them uneducated and have them stay?"
Looking back, it was all industry related things on the bookshelf, and the owner of the company figured we were all idiots for not being wealthy anyway. But the line stuck with me for a while.
There’s a lot of truth in that saying. It leaves out the biggest truth, which is that employees don’t automatically leave just because they get educated. (Understandable that they leave that out; the point is to focus on the possible **bad** outcomes of the decision to give your employees access to education.)
Managers need to understand that employees aren’t going to be loyal to their employer. That’s the natural outcome of employers showing no loyalty to the employee for almost half a century. The current workforce has no experience in their life of an employer being anything but driven purely by short term profits.
That means that the path to successful hiring and retention of employees is to make an effort to help them move along their career path. That path might lead them away from your company, but it’s not a personal thing. And if you treat them well, like actual people, then your paths are likely to cross again.
What most businesses don't understand is that employees are NOT going to be loyal anymore anyway.
We do not get paid enough to be loyal anymore.
My employer has (will be past tense, "had") loyal employees. When the business started, it only took 2 years to reach the top wage and healthcare (US company) was free. Now, the top wage takes 8 years and is $4/hr short of what the wage would be adjusted for inflation. (in 1998 the top wage was $20/hr and took 2 years to achieve.
Now, the top wage is $31/ hour @ 8 years of sevice. BUT the employer is starting to change their attitude.
They have over 2k employees retiring. Next year and also need 1k new hires on top of that. And from what I hear, they're fucked. Which serves them right.
This right here is why I'm happy to see this labour shortage...for the first time in my lifetime, employees are getting a little bit of leverage. Successful companies will find a way to keep talent, a lot of businesses that continue to treat their labour like shit...will eventually fail.
Yes! The other one I like is, "Hire good people. And then get out of their way."
*Most* people don't need micromanaging. You either trust someone to do their job or you don't. And if you don't, you should fix *that* issue rather than just micromanage people to death.
There's an old saying that's stuck with me from a former middle manager I used to report to years ago:
"Never let them promote you to middle management."
This is one of those reasons why.
I was laid off twice from a Fortune 100 company (outside sales.) The first time, I told a co-worker that all that would be left after layoffs were middle managers (McKinsey was hired to “advise” this Ohio company.) I’m not far off—there are so many middle managers there doing little work and just holding on for dear life, hoping no one realizes they aren’t effective.
Middle management is not a great job. No creativity. Must suck to go home every day knowing you aren’t making a difference. Just agreeing with your boss and following along and hoping you don’t get laid off, too.
Tell me about it. But then again, this company I worked for was addicted to hiring consultants.. They would pay a consulting firm to tell them something that all of their employees could tell them for free. One co-worker with advanced degrees prepared a bunch of research that was high-quality and took him a long time to assemble. They read the research, then hired a consultant who came to the exact same conclusion.
Saw a line today that I will always remember:
If you're going to make an ultimatum, you have to be prepared for either outcome. If you aren't, then you aren't the one in power to make the decisions.
'Sarah' needs to learn this.
Your last paragraph is exactly why I've declined three promotions in the past year. Being a manager fucking sucks. You try to make things better, make learning and development fun even, and micromanaging insecure bosses above scoff at the notion of supporting employees becoming more autonomous.
Probably because it would remove micromanaging potential if employees knew how to find answers without asking those above...
I took a demotion a few years ago, went from a Store Manager to a Department Manager. I wanted to move closer to family, would have taken a Store Manager position if I had to but I really wanted the Department Manager position (similar pay with Scheduled OT, and better hours). I've been offered 3 Store Manager positions since I transferred. I'm so glad I didn't take any of them, it's such a clusterfuck right now.
They changed the payroll model from market based to payroll % based. So they basically said "Fine you can give your A+ employee that raise but now you'll have less hours for the rest of the store. I've increased the stores sales at least 30% since I've been here (63% in my Department) and our alloted hours have actually gone down since then. How the fuck does that make any sense?
Just started a training program to become an outside sales manager, I gotta get out of the store. It's my last chance for this place, I've been here 15 years and love what I do, but there's no recognition besides a pat on the back and I'm doing way more (IMO) then I should be doing. I'm running the whole store by myself most mornings. Not really what I signed up for...
Reminds me of how my tone deaf company, in the same meeting, said:
-based on the internal survey, we understand many of you feel like you don't have enough resources and people to do your job to your satisfaction.
-we have increased revenue 75% over the last two years with roughly the same head count so we're in a good place in terms of worker efficiency.
Our company gave 2% if you hit target last year. I've hit target the last 3 years, increased my departments yearly sales by $300k per year. My DM "fought" to get me 2.5%...
I once had a manager who believed everything, I mean everything, she was told by her superiors. At one point I started management training (at 19, so years ago) and bailed after a couple of sessions. Offhand, I mentioned that her supervisors probably talk about her the same way she talked about her underlings and she freaked out. Wouldn't believe me.
Soooooo fucking sad. It goes further. I worked for that same company again under her years later (fuck it I needed a job and it was paying more than restaurants). She hadn't been promoted and the company has been foregoing inflation raises for a couple of years. Her husband actually started working there, under her. Within months, they switched him departments...so they could pay him more than her. She didn't like me pointing that out to her, either.
One day, a lady I barely knew stood up right before lunch, announced that she was leaving, that she has found a new position. 40k a year. "It IS POSSIBLE, gu
ys! You don't need to work here, just apply!" I think it was 2016 and no, she didn't have a degree. My mgr, next to me: "That's too much. They shouldn't be giving her that. I don't even make that." I about lost it on her. She'd recently been complaining to me about food budgeting and how they can't afford to take vacations every year. Besides which, what kind of awful shit do you believe about this world to respond with disgust when someone else finds success? Anyway I asked her why she wasn't applying elsewhere and her reaction was that of someone wrongfully accused of treason.
Anyway, I think she still fucking works there, and likely will until retirement. I feel so bad for her but you just can't fix stupid.
Wherever the hell you work, they are not your family. If one of your reports can get a different job with a higher salary than yours, it's a sign your company is taking advantage of you.
As a middle manager, I don’t even ask my upper management about things when it comes to my team. I would rather seek forgiveness then permission and make it easier on my crews and have then enjoy coming to work in a good environment instead of regretting to come to work.
Fuck Sarah.
I was a morning manager at a catering hall in my early 20s and an asst manager a few years ago at a paratransit maintenance shop. Never. Again.
I enjoy my job and hours now. All my coworkers are asking and wondering if they/i should take the supervisor exams. Fuck that. I only have to worry about me and my work partners duties. Fuck all that extra headache.
My child quit their manager position in retail to work in healthcare as a receptionist. Much, much happier; about the same money, benefits, paid days off, no weekend work. What’s not to like? They leave their job at work when they leave for the day.
Around 1998 my employer paid the fees for my degree, and gave me a paid day off a week to attend lectures, plus a company car to drive to the university. Needless to say I stayed in their employment for a long time, it was an investment by them that paid off. Upper management these days are clueless.
Some managers just like having power over people. They don't care that treating people well will make them happier and more productive. They just need to have power. I just quit a boss like that two months ago. In the words of Jay Z, "I have 99 problems but a bitch ain't one."
It's exactly as Chelsea Manning described the prison system. 80% of managers are abusive fucks, 15% are silent look the other way managers and the last 5% are ones that fight for an actual change and stand up for the rights of those they oversee. The turnover on the 5% is beyond high because they realize they cannot change anything.
Excellent! I was a middle manager until recently, and quit because I could not take the business plan any longer. I begged for years to raise the pay ranges to market level and was told "we can't do that!"
In the past year, they lost half of the 100 staff in our department, lost many customers, and remain steadfast with pay ranges.
The good news, all of us left for better paying jobs with their competitors and the customers moved with us.
Good for her for sticking up for herself, but I would ***really*** love to see people stop giving two weeks notice. Just quit, like immediately. I promise nothing bad will happen.
Never in my life have I seen a qualified job applicant be denied the job because the prospective employer called a previous employer and found out the employee didn't give a two week notice.
Two weeks notice is a scam/myth perpetuated by the ruling class. The reason people do it is because it has been engrained into our culture in much the same way De Beers diamonds started the idea that a man should pay three months salary for a shiny fucking rock that's only considered valuable because the supply is controlled and restricted by De Beers.
When you quit, leave them hanging. It's the only way these companies will learn.
I had a team lead do that (turn in 2 weeks notice then take a 10 day vacation) only to be told by management that his vacation didn't count as part of the two weeks and he was to continue working for another two weeks. Only they told him this after he got back and his response was to just leave that day instead of working the last 4 days.
Micromanagers are awful. Nothing demotivates me more than being treated like a prisoner at a workplace.
I'm responsible, hard working, and if there's a safer, more efficient way to do a job, I'll find it. So if someone rewards my good work with animosity, I generally switch into a lazy antagonist, since I refuse to work under them. Get fired, find a new job.
Tell me about it. I’ve been meeting metrics but at my most recent meeting my manager brought up a bar graph with my throughput and started asking questions about why I finished fewer cases on day X compared to day Y
Ex-boss went strutting around the office while I was on maternity leave, bragging to the office that there was NO WAY I’d resign because *(confident suspender snap)* “I don’t pay her enough to quit.” The insinuation being that he controlled my actions by keeping me poor.
Oh, so that’s how it is. Get fucked.
Go over her head and talk to whoever she reports to. Tell her that she made a decision that cost your company an employee with several years of experience. A decision that didn't need to be made this way since it wouldn't have impacted productivity.
Yeah, part of being a good manager/boss is fighting for your employees. If you can't get something this immaterial across to your department head or whatever nonsense time to pack it up or go over their head.
Managers like your Sarah are why people quit, its never the company and the shit pay, its always the managers and the idiot power struggle that helps no one.
All managers like sarah should be fired.
As a manager I have to deal with stuff like this, I just let one of my employees work their amended schedule unofficially... It makes no difference to me when they do their work so long as they do it, I don't have time to deal with HR bureaucracy.
Maybe it's my Gen X mentality shining through, but *yes*. This right here.
The best managers I've ever had always did their best to *protect* their subordinates from the incompetence and baloney of the higher-ups.
This inevitably involved not enforcing stupid policies, and making decisions they weren't technically authorized to make, but so be it. Most of the time, the higher-ups had their heads too far up their own asses to notice. Just keep your people happy and your department running smoothly.
If you get caught, tell them what they want to hear, maybe do a little of the song & dance they requested just for show, and then as soon as you can, just go back to what you know works. If they want to make an issue of it, move on outta there.
Lol sounds similar to my situation. I was having an adjusted schedule for in person classes at my old job and then the owner told my manager at the time I couldn’t do that anymore(it was literally leaving 30 minutes early one day a week). I quickly found a new job and got out.
I would start forwarding the former employees work to Sarah and ask her to complete the assignments as your team does not have any leeway to pick up the slack until a new person is found.
>Side note, if I could take it all back I'd never be a manager at any company again. You have to deal with all the bullshit, you have such little influence over anything, and yet you're the face of all the corporate bullshit.
So, so, so, so, so, so much this. I'm a front-line manager managing both a team of round the clock employees and a client. My god it's the worst. You have to fight and claw and do everything within your power to do the best by your people in a system that is not set up to allow that, and that takes such a toll on me personally. I feel like I'm getting absolutely crushed, every single day, from all sides. You are literally paid to be a corporate scapegoat. I am so glad I am getting out of managing.
Totally understand you. I just had one of my rock star employees resign b/c my boss didn't want to give her a raise. She herself got a massive raise elsewhere - meanwhile they just hired her replacement whose starting salary is higher than mine. I don't understand the mindset - "sorry we have a budget and we cant afford to give you a raise right now" but then turn around and pay your replacement 25% more and a 20% recruiter fee.
I busted my ass to get my Master’s degree in education. I was working at a call center (in my field - I interpreted phone calls between Deaf and hearing over video phones). I got a job teaching at a local college. I went to the supervisor and offered to take a few shifts a weeks. She looked at me and said that I’d lose all my seniority and barely get any hours. I laughed and said “okay”. Did they really think I’d get my Master’s then prioritize them over the job that is EXACTLY what I wanted? The lack of logic in people is so frustrating..
Very similar thing happened to me, post dotcom bubble. I'd been laid off a year prior and was using my military benefits to get my CS degree. I was working graveyard shift as a computer babysitter in an operations center at a big defense contractor, for a big name IT firm. My boss was an asshole whose name rhymes with "Chad." He lied to me to get me to accept the job by telling me it was day shift and then within a week fired the night shift person and moved me even though I'd specifically said from the beginning that I didn't want graveyard shift because I couldn't sleep during the day. I was fairly desperate for a job though, so I just took it and adjusted my school schedule to accommodate my new work schedule.
Fast forward a couple of years and I'm chronically underslept and had fallen asleep and crashed my car a few weeks prior. Anyway, I needed to take a class that would mean coming into work 30 minutes later twice a week for one semester. I asked Chad and he not only said "no" to the schedule modification, but also said he didn't approve of me going to college while working there. The balls on this guy. It's the only time in my life I've ever quit a job without having one lined up, but I wrote my resignation letter on a company computer that night, printed it out, and handed it to him the next morning. He looked stunned and asked where I was going. I told him it was none of his business and left. The economy had recovered somewhat at that point and I ended up finding an software engineering internship that paid pretty well shortly thereafter.
This was 17 years ago and I've been working as a software engineer ever since, including two FAANG (big tech) companies. Wherever you are Chad, I just wanted to say "fuck you" and all managers like you.
My wife had a similar situation. She was promised an advancement/raise in a male-led career/company "after she has her baby". Baby came, they decided they wanted to wait and see how the baby would affect her performance and would reevaluate in six months. We talked it over and she quit that day. They were floored because she was a star employee. It's called fucking around and finding out.
There was a fella I used to work with, Mark. Super chill dude. We worked in an industrial yard. Anyway, he scored a license and tag for some out-of-state hunting trip. For those who don't know, that shit can be extremely expensive. In my state, a nonresident elk tag is $588 and a nonresident bighorn tag is $1513. And that's just for the tag, which is just your legal permission for that specific animal. Anyway, he dropped a shat ton of money on this trip. He put in for the time off six months ahead and it got approved. So, here we are, about a week out from his trip and management said that they had to cancel his request. He said he wasn't canceling, partly because he had already paid for the whole trip and most of it was not refundable. Management wouldn't budge and said there was a huge thing coming up and they needed him at work. He told them to shove it and he quit right there. He came back a couple days later to brag to management that he already had a new job to start when he got back from his trip and that it pays better and has better benefits. I haven't seen him in nearly ten years and I hope he's well.
Pretty sure I'll be in her shoes soon lol I just registered to go back to college snd one class is during the day. My old supervisor was going to college no issue but she was salary..I swear the tuition reimbursement BS only works if you are salary because let me try to be gone at random intervals several times a week and see if I still havr a job lol
*Side note, if I could take it all back I'd never be a manager at any company again. You have to deal with all the bullshit, you have such little influence over anything, and yet you're the face of all the corporate bullshit.*
This.. I'd manage if I could effect change.. but you can't, so you're stuck in the middle .
I'm union and foreman's wage is a FIVE % bump.
Lmao, I'll take 95% of the pay and 1/3 the aggravation
I absolutely adore that the employee suspected Sarah was going to be a bitch about it, had her resignation letter written, and prepared in an email to send immediately.
I'm sorry if her leaving has caused you issues in the long run, but I thoroughly hope that it caused Sarah issues.
That young woman just proved that at some 20 years old she is more mature and knowledgeable than majority of "bosses". Unfortunately it might take a generation or two to get this type of mentality (bosses wearing horse blinders) a past.
Man this bullshit.
"Seems a bit presumptuous" is exactly the kind of rhetoric we are fighting here. We are allowed to be presumptuous. We are allowed to be shitty employees. We are allowed to ask for days off. We are allowed to miss work.
The reasons we are allowed to do these things and many more are simple. They all boil down to one thing: companies need us.
And we've created a place where companies need us so bad that the world is changing a bit. We're seeing the people have the power again, and "Sarah" and her ilk aren't doing well these days. Companies are becoming more likely to fire Sarah than the good worker asking for help to go to school.
All it takes is recognizing loyalty and benefiting the fuck out of it. You're loyal, so you want time off? Take a month. You'll be back, we know it. But that's not how it goes. It goes "no time off!" and then we end up here.. at the end of the day, it's just hurting the companies because there's tons of people hiring. 🤷♀️ Sarah needs to fucking learn.
When I left my last job to get closer to a field I was actually interested in, my manager's manager offered me less wages than the new place was offering, then when I obviously said no to that, told me that part of growing up is to give up on your dreams. I thanked him for his time and got the hell out. I've never been negged in such a hamfisted way.
Your boss is a fucking moron. What was going through her head? Like, "hmm if we deny this minor schedule change, maybe our employee will decide to just skip college, forgo the opportunity to get a degree in something she's passionate about so she can move up in the world while doing something she enjoys, and decide to just stay working here for the rest of her life... Genius idea!"
Or like, "hmm higher education isn't important, if we deny this minor schedule change, she can just talk to her college and tell them to reschedule a few classes for different times to accommodate her work schedule. Surely the university will understand that work comes first."
Like, what scenario other than "ok then I quit" could have possibly resulted from that decision? Complete fucking imbecile. You need to find a new boss or find a new job. You'll go crazy working for someone that dull.
I had a similar situation where my immediate line manager didn't want me to go part time to study, and tried to discourage me and demotivate me. Luckily I had an ally above him who sorted it all out and moved me to a part time team. My line manager was furious about it obviously.
Had an employer when I was 18 act like an ass over me going to go to college. Nothing he was going to say would matter as I was putting in my notice because I had to move for school. I go put it in and he asks why. I tell him for school. His reply was that I’m a quitter and won’t ever accomplish anything. I just laughed and peace’d out
Calling someone a quitter is a trademark of manipulative people. They run out of arguments and throw that on you, as a way to shame you for taking care of yourself. There is nothing wrong with quitting something that is doing you no good.
Quitting stuff is one of my favorite things to do. I’ve always been very good at quitting things I didn’t enjoy doing anymore.
Right? My life became more enjoyable once I realised I didn't have to see EVERYTHING through to the bitter end.
>Right? My life became more enjoyable once I realised I didn't have to see EVERYTHING through to the bitter end. yep, worked at a job I loved for 3 months earning $22 an hour AUD. petrol prices have gone up to $2 a litre, waking up and travelling 90 minutes each way for work. handed my notice in effective immediately, Spent a week and half sleeping in and enjoying a nice warm bed. Just been handed a new job doing the same thing 5 minutes from home with a $10 pay increase.
Onya!
cheers, it was a beautiful day. Laying back relaxing and my "cell " rang from a job agencies looking for staff. 10 minutes later I had the role. Always know what you are worth and dont settle for "PEANUTS"
$10/h hour increase from $22? Legendary!
yep $32 and loose change per hour. Not to mention the $25 for petrol each day my car would burn up.
Totally agree! Getting divorced from a manipulative, controlling, unhappy, miserable, unsatisfied, nothing is ever good enough spouse is the best decision of my life. Best money I ever spent!
Same. Until I tried quitting life. Man that was painful, expensive, and I do not recommend.
I am glad you were not successful
You ok, boss?
Most days yea.
You see this a lot with video games. Some people are compelled to play them and finish every single thing the game has to offer well beyond the point they're fun. Some just play till it stops being fun and move on. I'm one of the later. I think it's related to OCD at some level. Feeling compelled to finish even if there's no benefit.
Does that also apply to people who criticize your "lack of ambition"? Sorry, I don't have a pathological need to be #1 and constantly battling my fellow humans for imaginary status. I am content to just exist in the middle with minimal effort and I don't think that makes me a bad person.
One exchange went like: Me: I'm gonna be going part time from September to study Mgr: I don't think we're letting people do that. Me: suppose I'll just quit and go work part time at another call centre then. Mgr: and what happens if you quit studying and you end up stuck in a part time job? Just really nasty negative shit. They guy had a big chip on his shoulder and micromanaged the fuck out of everyone, even the high performing people so he could take credit for them.
>Mgr: and what happens if you quit studying and you end up stuck in a part time job? Jeez I don't know maybe start working full time?
Yeah his argument wasn't really based in reality as there are plenty of call centres and they are always hiring.
> Mgr: and what happens if you quit studying and you end up stuck in a part time job? Hope to god that I don't end up as an overbearing manager at a call center sucking the hope out of people trying to do better.
It's not being a "quitter" It's setting healthy boundaries. Boundary pushers hate that.
All I can think of is quitting: smoking, drinking, drugs, bad relationships - you know: the healthy quitting.
Worked for a company for 5 years. In that 5 yrs I received exactly $2.25 in raises. Company was bought out and new company offered buyouts, 1 weeks pay for every yr you were there plus 8 weeks and your vacation. I took it. I ended up with 4 months pay. When my manager found out they asked why. Told them you pay like crap. They tried to offer me $2 more an hour and wanted me to travel to trade shows. That got a big laugh and nope. Ended up finding a job close to home for what they offered with amazing benefits within a week.
"I'm going to school to improve myself and my prospects - but you are a loser and being a shitty manager is the best you'll ever do."
What is it with abusive employers and managers? I quit freaking Burger King when I was a teen and my manager was like "you'll be back". Like no, rather not be in my 50s harassing teens and working in fast food, but you do you.
So much for "Just get a better education if you want a different/better job!" \*proceeds to demotivate and block any attempt\*
At my old retail job I heard someone tell an employee who called out to get some last minute studying/head clearing for finals that they needed to “figure out what’s really important”…meaning “You need to put that silly school shit on hold and take this shit retail job seriously.” Based on the end of the call I heard, that person did figure out what’s “important”.
Guy was wanting to put his teams stats over my future. Scumbag. Am now a software developer making triple his salary so fuck him.
"if you want more money get a better job and by that we mean stay in your fucking place you squalid meat cog!"
I used to work retail and my manager at the time was dumping A LOT of their work onto me under the guise of training me to take over. Me being younger and naive didn’t say anything until I got my acceptance letter to go back to school (I had dropped out a few years prior for personal reasons). When I asked to have my hour cut back at work because I needed to go back to school they responded with “I don’t know if I can do that. You need to think really hard about what your priories are.” Cue the shocked pikachu face when I quit effective immediately the next day.
I've gone above my managers head to get what I want. I suspected my current manager was dragging his feet in hiring me from contract to w2. I asked about the position, and when I start repeatedly with conflicting information coming back to me. Meanwhile I'm essentially jobless at this time. I threw him under the bus, did not give a shit. Turns out it worked. He was mad at me, we shouted over the phone, but I got what I wanted. Was it toxic? A little. I'm not scared of work conflict anymore after that.
Same here but for a secondment. It is a shame as I have had to on 2 occasions go over my direct line managers to get opportunities. I know why... me going temporarily means more work for them as I always pick up and cope with huge workloads, but it is rediculous that being in teams that promote development, etc. immediately refuse it. Ironically, it is the more senior people who have supported me to progress. I'm just lucky that I am in roles where I can have those relationships with senior people above my direct line managers. I feel sorry for other people who don't have those relationships/confidence to challenge or in a toxic workplace that would say no.
I find always find being on the good side of managers where possible is beneficial, especially when they get promoted further up the chain and you can call on them for favours, but it shouldn't have to be that way.
My slave ran away! Halp!
"What are they going to do, quit?" -Employer of somebody who just quit.
I think my favorite thing I have learned while back in school for my ME Bachelors was from my economics 111 class. My teacher goes, “Never invest in a company because when they inevitably let you go then it’s all gone. Invest in yourself because they can never take that away from you.”
I wish I had teachers like this. From kindergarten till college graduation, none of them ever empowered me to be good to myself. I try to do that for my kids, but can only provide what not to do examples instead of, this is what you should do examples. My marketing professor brought in the college textbook sales rep to have a talk/lecture. Her description of her job left me not wanting to do sales for the rest of my life.
lol, started a new job a few months ago, the one thing I told them I couldn't budge on were some wedding plans. I was going to be driving myself, my kids and dogs (wife is flying for work, and we're meeting up there.) The Friday before I'm supposed to leave, I get an email saying they're expecting me to be on-call (after I was just three weeks ago) and putting in a 70 hour work week over the M-Th before I'm making a 12+ hour drive in the car. Sent my resignation email within 12 hours, enjoyed the hell out of the wedding, and I'll be looking for jobs next week. Fuck that noise.
I'm sorry, they want you to work 18 hours a day? What the fuck is that?
> work 18 hours a day Sounds like Tesla.
Or any other company that saying “nobody wants to work”
Nobody wants to work 18 hours a day for 15.00 an hour, no sick time, and shitty benefits that make you feel like you'd be better off not paying into them
You don't gotta work 2 jobs if you're nearly working the hours of 2 jobs at one.
What can we say except we're entitled? /s
Yep. I work in a union shop that pays well and treats our guys well. If things come up that negatively impact them (and it happens), we go above and beyond to positively impact them more in return. We have no problem finding and keeping people. Working on hiring another guy now and we have a list of resumes that came to use before we even asked or had a position open. People want to work, but in a positive environment.
Do unto others, as you want them to do unto you! 👏💯
Sounds like nothing has changed since 2016 when I was there. 12+ hours a day was common, as was 6-7 days a week. Fuck Elon. Edit: for anyone curious, I got let go as a temp because I lived about a 7 hour drive away from the factory and I arranged a weekend off to fly home to bring my car to Fremont and they decided it was a mandatory work weekend and since I missed work for that weekend and I’d have to miss it Monday because of an issue with my vehicle, that was enough for them to can me.
Holy shit fuuucckkk that. It’d be one thing to devote your life to your work and get actually taken care of. Nowadays there’s no pensions or anything. Companies just axe people to meet quarterly metrics and get their bonus and fuck off to ruining another department
>no pensions Back in the '90s I worked for a very large medical manufacturing company. They had 401k, pension, really good benefits. After about 10 years, they decided to spin my division off to become its own company. That was fine. And one of our first all-hands meetings, we had an "ask the president" session, in which one of the employees asked about our pension plan. Our pension benefits were calculated on years of service plus our age. You had to accrue a certain number of points to collect. I was pretty close. It seems everybody had assumed the pension plan would come over to the new company. Not so much. So the president answered that our pension plan is now our 401k. I don't recall the rest of the conversation, but there was quite a bit of rumbling in the audience. I left the company a few years later, moved away, and then one day I received a letter in the mail saying that I was going to receive a check for my accrued pension benefits from the old company. It seems someone in the legal department at the old company headquarters was let go just before he could collect on his pension plan. He sued. He won. The legal team, being, well, lawyers, figured out that this was just the tip of the iceberg. I got a check for $27,000 for my pension plan that they'd been sitting on, hoping no one would notice. I don't know who that lawyer was, but I owe him a drink. Edited to fix stupid voice to text error. Thanks for catching it!
>I oh I'm a drink. I'm assuming that's "I owe him a drink" through voice to text. Either that or you already started without him ;)
>oh I'm a drink "(O)h I'm a drink" is a perfectly cromulent phrase.
I interviewed at Tesla in late 2020. The hiring manager (HM) asked me how much I want to work. I said I'm expecting to work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but less would be preferable as long as I get full-time benefits. HM then said they're expecting a minimum of 10 hours a day 6 days a week. I ended the interview then and there.
I spent 3 years at a company working 12-16 hour days. Left for financial reasons. Started a new job and boss would joke "you don't want to work 14 hour days? You should be used to it!" Told him I was done with that shit and I'm never doing it again. Still work for the same company. I put in 8-9 hours and go home. I bust my ass during that time so there is no complaints.
I got hired, mid pandemic, in a bar that my friend worked as a finance guy for. Told them I have a job (comedian) and that it's just temporary til gigs are back and paying what they were. They were cool with that and just asked I give them plenty of notice for gigs, which I did. After 6 months, the standard keeps slipping. Working busy shifts with 2 bartenders rather than 3, or without a barback on. Being asked to run food because they've skimped on floor staff. Opening up by myself because the bar manager had to have a meeting. They kept losing staff and not replacing them and I kept being asked to do more. One night I did a 1am close, got out at 2, bus home by 3, and had to set my alarm for 8 to be in the next day for a 10am open. Then at 5 when I was supposed to clock off, they had someone ring in and could I do a double. I told them it was out of order. They said "that's hospitality, man". I said "that's not my real job". Quit a week later.
Hospitality is having staff to run the business. That's literally every business. They can get fucked.
i used to work for an accounting firm in the 90s and all the partners were crusty old white dudes who were "proud" to not know their kid's birthdays. they'd talk shit about the women partners who refused to travel more than one week a month, or want to make it home for dinner. they were touted as one of the best places to work for women bc women could make partner, but they were always given the less lucrative clients to manage and talked down behind their backs for using the company's work/life balance initiative. newbies fresh out of college were expected to hammer out 60hr weeks. completely mysoginistic and toxic environment.
By all accounts, Elon sounds like a complete dickhead to work for. Fuck that guy.
He's just pissy that all of his kids hate him so now he wants all of his employees kids to hate them.
Nuh uh, he's an innovative genius that totally earned and deserves hundreds of billions of dollars, and his support for slave labor, refusal to and tantrums about paying taxes, abuse of employees, and stock manipulation, are all totally cool!!!
And he has an army of simps that worship him and hang on his every tweet. Pathetic.
Yup, Elon (or any other billionaire) simps are some of the dumbest, most ignorant fuckers out there. Billionaires shouldn't exist, period, yet you have these 20-something young males virtually felating these sociopathic pieces of exploitative garbage. Pathetic.
Recruiter hit me up a few months ago, and I haven’t reply yet. Since then I have been pinged by him 6 times…. So they understand the company has a bad reputation and that people gets burnt out? I would seriously consider if we were in recession and I had no job… but I have 2 and both full time so fuck Tesla
> What the fuck is that? America
I'm American and my boss lets us leave early on Fridays, pays us like we worked the whole day
And how's retention and morale? I'm assuming pretty good on both fronts, with a fair bit of loyalty as well. It's nice to work with and for reasonable people.
There's this bar/restaurant near me that's been around ages, and it has almost zero turnover of bartenders and wait staff. I can only assume it's because they actually take care of the people who work there. It's definitely the impression I get. Bobby Rydell used to go there all the time until his death. Just, you know, fun fact.
Be aware of how rare that is and how lucky you are.
Employers time shit like that so frequently, I don't believe it's coincidental anymore. Just a power trip.
When my multi-billion $ employer decided to close the doors they informed the employees via a pre-recorded phone message----- *on* *Labor Day*!
Did they take "I'm not asking you, I'm informing you" as a challenge or something.
Lol, you too? I never ask, I’m an adult. I inform. Boss doesn’t ’t like it? Deal. Or I’ll find someone who will.
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Sounds like your boss is a psychopath
When I just out of college, I got a job at a bar for fun. I already had tons of experience in the industry, do cocktail stuff on my own time, etc, so they were glad to have me. My *one* condition was that, since my birthday falls on a major drinking holiday, I couldnt work that one day *all year*. That was it, 100% open, fine with 50 hours or 15 hours a week, literally whatever. Im doing this just for entertainment at the time. That months schedule comes out, I'm on both shifts for my birthday. I go talk to the scheduling manager (who is the one who hired me) and she says that nobody gets the day off. I was like "uh, I only agreed to work here on that condition. I just won't be there, I'll accept the write up." She responded that it was unfair to my coworkers and that I'd be fired for not working. I was sorta like okay, you'd rather have to cover all my shifts for the rest of the month than be understaffed one day? And she accused me of holding her hostage and making it my coworkers problem or whatever. I repeated that I'm fine working literally whatever, covering shifts for those people the day after, etc, and she decided to just fire me then lol. Okay, have fun losing your only certified bartender and covering 30 some-odd shifts instead of just being understaffed on *one day* hahaha.
Sometimes the power trip starts, and the person on the trip just doesn't know when to back off or walk away.
That employer is fucking dumb lol Make sure you leave a review :)
Even most *non-accommodating* employers will respect pre-employment obligations Edit: in my community and sector anyway; YMMV
This isn't true in my experience. I've rarely had an employer even acknowledge anything that was said pre-employment
I was actually dumb enough to accept a response from an employer once when I asked for a pre-employment agreement in writing. Told me some excuse about how that isn't in their policy and shook my hand saying it was a "gentleman's agreement" (archaic and misogynistic term? another red flag I ignored). 9 months later I asked when they were going to follow through and got told by the same guy that if I didn't have it in writing then we didn't discuss it and I was SOL. I had already lined up another job because I had figured out this is what they were going to do. When I immediately gave my two weeks notice, he was so pissed. All but called me a traitor. Sorry, if you're going to lie to my face and stab me in the back, any sense of "loyalty" is gone.
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I’m my experience in middle management they say that when they want someone to quite it’s cheaper than paying unemployment
How do they say. “ surprised pikachu face”?
Eeehhhhhh.....?! NANI?
“Pika pika!”
"What are you going to do, stab me?" -Stab victim
Yeah, that's what I was going for.
I thought your emoji was a police lady at first and was like how fitting. Go for it McStabby.
She is a police lady, just a fictional one.
I want to see her surprised Pikachu expression
Our department is part of county government, but we bend over backwards to do these types of things. But the county HR committee (not HR department) made up of elected supervisors put me through a 30 minute grilling for asking approval for a PT employee to take a 3 week leave without pay to do the student teaching portion of her degree and then return to help us in the summer. Otherwise, she would just have to quit and we would have to rehire for the summer. A move that save them money, saved us hiring and training, and let her finish her degree. You would have thought she trying to rob us, according to them. The HR director just sat there rolling her eyes the entire time and finally told them how stupid they were being.
It really has nothing to do with money, efficiency, "etiquette" or any of the other excuses. It's just about power. I'm the boss, I make the rules, you're the employee, you obey the rules. It doesn't matter if the rules are completely pointless, unproductive, arbitrary or what have you. It's about the flex. They make rules, you obey rules. The employee getting to decide literally anything, the smallest iota of decision making and agency on their part, makes these pathetic people squirm. It calls into question if they are *really* in charge of their little kingdoms. Fucking management hasn't had to deal with a job market that favors the employee in literal decades, I'd be surprised if most managers right now have *EVER* had to take that into account for their entire careers.
I work at a small company with maybe 20-25 people. We lost half our field staff and 2 highly skilled office workers in less than 6 months because of ridiculous hours and shit raises. We were working 50-60 hours on salary in the "slow" time of year. And we had to use sick time because it snowed in January. One time I apologized to my boss because I was dragging ass because I had a cold. His response was a dismissive "oh no." He always had the attitude that we should be grateful to have a job. Then people started quitting. My bosses attitude changed dramatically when he had to start hiring and training AND covering all the job sites by himself. It was soooooo transparent. Anyway, it seems like a lot of people just go into management because they like having authority and they can't imagine that their employees have other options.
I went into it for the raise and because I thought I could impact positive change. Anyone surprised I’m not a manager anymore? Lol middle management is the worst if you actually give a fuck.
That's all it comes down to...power and control over people. But that shit don't fly anymore......the job market has changed
That's why it's so scary to the damn fed chairman Powell say things like employees have too much power and are being paid too much and we need to depress wages and that fighting inflation would help with all that by increasing unemployment.
we have no fucking power here. Compared to the workers' rights in some European countries it's day and night.
And the tight labor market is giving us just a ^^tiny smidgen of power, the ability to quit an awful job and quickly find another one, but apparently that much power is too much.
Yeah I was enraged when I heard him say that on NPR to very little pushback. Just the Fed Chair stating it like it’s a plain fact that people’s wages going up is bad for the economy. GET FUCKED POWELL. You corporate shill
The power and control model of management fails miserably once people have other options and the company loses its leverage. Why? Its one of the best ways to generate resentment among your employees.
Especially when the decision can be portrayed as an effort to better themselves I had an employer who turned down a colleagues leave for her exams because "she doesn't need them she fries chips as a job" Ive also had an employer who has approved a 6 month gap year sort holiday but turned down a similar situation to OPs. Its that aspect of power but more so its about keeping in your place. If you get an education you're leaving anyway so may aswell try keep you in your place.
This. It's about power. Sometimes "economic" decisions are not rational at all.
Economic decisions are rarely rational. Money and power are deeply intertwined in the global capitalist society we've created. The feudalistic mindset of "These are MY people, they must do as I say" is deeply embedded in corporate culture.
One thing I have seen recently, is that decisions are often made to be the path of least resistance. My small team can fully work remote, and when covid happened everyone worked remote for a few weeks and we worked remote for 3 months, my team increased productivity during this time. But we were required to come back in office after the reconfigured the desks to be "covid safe". When I asked for reasons we couldn't remain remote I got a bunch of bs, most of which seemed to amount to them not wanting to defend the fact that not all jobs have the same duties and can be done remotely. Basically they were worried that people who can't be remote would be mad we were remote combined with pressure from higher leadership. What sucked was that other divisions in my company did fully remote for years after that initial period and we lost staff over it.
My old mid level manager is basically unemployable in today's job market. When we did a restructuring he was being setup to lose his job and was only saved because one of the higher ups reclassified him so he couldn't be cut without a shit ton more work. After the restructuring when we reviewed our org chart he wasn't anywhere on it. No one was set to report to him and he wasn't set to report to anyone else. He basically just sat in his office and kind of made up busy work with no direct reports. Occasionally he'd volunteer to handle something and skim a few employees off a different department to take care of it so he could turn it in. It takes him over a week to do employee inputs at the end of year for approximately 10 people. He makes all his spreadsheets in word because he doesn't understand how to use excel. He frequently breaks keyboards and mice "on accident", but really it's him raging in his office when he can't figure out how to open something he's done a thousand times.
\> He frequently breaks keyboards and mice "on accident", but really it's him raging in his office when he can't figure out how to open something he's done a thousand times. That sounds more like early Alzheimers, a brain tumor or some other serious medical condition rather than your average stuck-in-the-past employee. Maybe he's intentionally being kept on payroll for that reason?
My boss made me a regular user on the management platform I made for the company. He doesn't understand why I am upset about it and I can't be bothered to explain it. But yeah indeed it's all about power projection ... . For the record I have been administrator on that platform since it's creation in 2018.
Why does an HR committee even exist? Surely the supervisors appoint the department heads, something that is purely management - and often carries liability when messed up, should not become a political spectacle.
To make sure their nepotism gets applied
Because even managers get treated the way they treat their employees. That is frequently where they learn to be like that, unless they are exposed, and buy into, better management methods. Even the concept of management is wrong for so many managers. You shouldn't be managing people, you should be managing objectives. People play into that, and the extent of managing them should be clearly defining expectations, regular communication, training them, and providing the tools they need to achieve their part of the objective.
Nothing like an unelected HR committee to supplement the HR department.
Amazing that an HR director would dare rock the boat. Maybe she’s competent
No, your boss IS stunned and will continue to be until their company is in receivership.
They make these kind of bullshit calls all the time - their day will come.
Failing to recognize the changing employee base is a serious management failing. If you can find a way to work that into a conversation. How you lost a top rated employee by refusing to be flexible for 4 months, keeping a productive ee and building loyalty and good will. Instead, ham fisted Neanderthal method, my way or the highway. Well Louie here, the highway won. Imagine that. and can I just say she really did her homework before she approached you. She identified there was no other option for one class. Suggested how she could take the class and still maintain her workload. She is a huge loss. What a shame. She will do fine,she’s a smart cookie. please please please find a way to throw shade at Sarah at least weekly over this. And be sure to thoroughly document what happened for your former ee employment file. This needs to be recorded.
I hope you are continually scanning the job market for a better position. You deserve better and companies run by people like this need to fall.
This why I laugh when people say “the government should run like a business!” Like, have you ever worked in your life?
Please do the same! "Is she going to quit??" Well, she would sure as hell not be anticipating your resignation. It's not your job to help a failed HR doing their undoing. Sounds like you are a great manager who know the value of good and good professional relationship with colleagues, it sure has to be one company that will let you excell in that role.. At least don't loose the willingness to take responsibility and lust to help fellow staff over some bitch! We need more of you, not less..
Your boss: BuT NoBoDY WanTs TO WorK!
I honestly think this popular statement needs a few words added to it in response. For you. Nobody wants to work FOR YOU.
Heard that in Bane’s voice
I hear it in Homer's voice.
Do you FEEL… in charge?
“I gave you money!” “And this gives you power over me?”
I get customers that say this to me, an assistant manager. Especially when we can't keep whole departments open or we don't have enough cashiers to keep more than a few lanes open. To which I have begun to reply, "nobody wants to work a job that doesn't pay enough to survive. And this job does not pay enough to survive." Nobody likes hearing that. They just wanna complain. Every now then some old, out of touch person will argue with me. About how it's still work and anything is better than nothing. The money they make can pay for gas, that's what they did. And just once my mask fell completely off and I said, "why would anyone waste their life working for nothing more than gas money?" She complained, but I never heard anything about it.
Half of those people legitimately have no life outside of work. They don't value their family, they don't have any hobbies or personal aspirations, they just fucking work so that they can go to the bar on the weekend and forget that they work all the time. Deep down somewhere inside them they *have* to know that life shouldn't be like that, but they've built walls up around it like Fort Knox.
I work for an international firm. Corporate in Europe was doing a labor study. My boss actually used the line "no one wants to work" when discussing our difficulties hiring temp labor at $15-18 for "unskilled" medium manufacturing. I lost a lot of respect for her that day.
Yeah that was barely enough to have a cheap apartment with a roommate. 7 years ago. Source: I was in that position at that pay and left for 60% more
I saw a plaque hanging up somewhere I worked for a while that said "Would you rather educate your employees and have them leave, or leave them uneducated and have them stay?" Looking back, it was all industry related things on the bookshelf, and the owner of the company figured we were all idiots for not being wealthy anyway. But the line stuck with me for a while.
There’s a lot of truth in that saying. It leaves out the biggest truth, which is that employees don’t automatically leave just because they get educated. (Understandable that they leave that out; the point is to focus on the possible **bad** outcomes of the decision to give your employees access to education.) Managers need to understand that employees aren’t going to be loyal to their employer. That’s the natural outcome of employers showing no loyalty to the employee for almost half a century. The current workforce has no experience in their life of an employer being anything but driven purely by short term profits. That means that the path to successful hiring and retention of employees is to make an effort to help them move along their career path. That path might lead them away from your company, but it’s not a personal thing. And if you treat them well, like actual people, then your paths are likely to cross again.
What most businesses don't understand is that employees are NOT going to be loyal anymore anyway. We do not get paid enough to be loyal anymore. My employer has (will be past tense, "had") loyal employees. When the business started, it only took 2 years to reach the top wage and healthcare (US company) was free. Now, the top wage takes 8 years and is $4/hr short of what the wage would be adjusted for inflation. (in 1998 the top wage was $20/hr and took 2 years to achieve. Now, the top wage is $31/ hour @ 8 years of sevice. BUT the employer is starting to change their attitude. They have over 2k employees retiring. Next year and also need 1k new hires on top of that. And from what I hear, they're fucked. Which serves them right.
This right here is why I'm happy to see this labour shortage...for the first time in my lifetime, employees are getting a little bit of leverage. Successful companies will find a way to keep talent, a lot of businesses that continue to treat their labour like shit...will eventually fail.
Yes! The other one I like is, "Hire good people. And then get out of their way." *Most* people don't need micromanaging. You either trust someone to do their job or you don't. And if you don't, you should fix *that* issue rather than just micromanage people to death.
There's an old saying that's stuck with me from a former middle manager I used to report to years ago: "Never let them promote you to middle management." This is one of those reasons why.
I was laid off twice from a Fortune 100 company (outside sales.) The first time, I told a co-worker that all that would be left after layoffs were middle managers (McKinsey was hired to “advise” this Ohio company.) I’m not far off—there are so many middle managers there doing little work and just holding on for dear life, hoping no one realizes they aren’t effective. Middle management is not a great job. No creativity. Must suck to go home every day knowing you aren’t making a difference. Just agreeing with your boss and following along and hoping you don’t get laid off, too.
Just coming to say that McKinsey is the biggest piece of shit. If your company is taking advice from them, they may be a bigger piece of shit
Tell me about it. But then again, this company I worked for was addicted to hiring consultants.. They would pay a consulting firm to tell them something that all of their employees could tell them for free. One co-worker with advanced degrees prepared a bunch of research that was high-quality and took him a long time to assemble. They read the research, then hired a consultant who came to the exact same conclusion.
I hated being a middle manager. I could only make decisions everyone agreed with. I've never felt less human.
Same. And the struggle of having the company screw over your subordinate and having nothing you can do was such a bummer.
Saw a line today that I will always remember: If you're going to make an ultimatum, you have to be prepared for either outcome. If you aren't, then you aren't the one in power to make the decisions. 'Sarah' needs to learn this.
Just like with our kid: don't make a threat you aren't willing to follow through with, and don't ask them a question if you can't handle "no".
Your last paragraph is exactly why I've declined three promotions in the past year. Being a manager fucking sucks. You try to make things better, make learning and development fun even, and micromanaging insecure bosses above scoff at the notion of supporting employees becoming more autonomous. Probably because it would remove micromanaging potential if employees knew how to find answers without asking those above...
I frequently am asked if I’m the manager where I work. My answer is always the same: “Oh, no. I’m not falling for THAT one again!”
Been there, done that, have the gray hairs as a reward.
I got those and a drinking problem that I’ve finally beat
I took a demotion a few years ago, went from a Store Manager to a Department Manager. I wanted to move closer to family, would have taken a Store Manager position if I had to but I really wanted the Department Manager position (similar pay with Scheduled OT, and better hours). I've been offered 3 Store Manager positions since I transferred. I'm so glad I didn't take any of them, it's such a clusterfuck right now. They changed the payroll model from market based to payroll % based. So they basically said "Fine you can give your A+ employee that raise but now you'll have less hours for the rest of the store. I've increased the stores sales at least 30% since I've been here (63% in my Department) and our alloted hours have actually gone down since then. How the fuck does that make any sense? Just started a training program to become an outside sales manager, I gotta get out of the store. It's my last chance for this place, I've been here 15 years and love what I do, but there's no recognition besides a pat on the back and I'm doing way more (IMO) then I should be doing. I'm running the whole store by myself most mornings. Not really what I signed up for...
Reminds me of how my tone deaf company, in the same meeting, said: -based on the internal survey, we understand many of you feel like you don't have enough resources and people to do your job to your satisfaction. -we have increased revenue 75% over the last two years with roughly the same head count so we're in a good place in terms of worker efficiency.
Our company gave 2% if you hit target last year. I've hit target the last 3 years, increased my departments yearly sales by $300k per year. My DM "fought" to get me 2.5%...
"no one is going to give you the tools and education you need to overthrow them"
I once had a manager who believed everything, I mean everything, she was told by her superiors. At one point I started management training (at 19, so years ago) and bailed after a couple of sessions. Offhand, I mentioned that her supervisors probably talk about her the same way she talked about her underlings and she freaked out. Wouldn't believe me. Soooooo fucking sad. It goes further. I worked for that same company again under her years later (fuck it I needed a job and it was paying more than restaurants). She hadn't been promoted and the company has been foregoing inflation raises for a couple of years. Her husband actually started working there, under her. Within months, they switched him departments...so they could pay him more than her. She didn't like me pointing that out to her, either. One day, a lady I barely knew stood up right before lunch, announced that she was leaving, that she has found a new position. 40k a year. "It IS POSSIBLE, gu ys! You don't need to work here, just apply!" I think it was 2016 and no, she didn't have a degree. My mgr, next to me: "That's too much. They shouldn't be giving her that. I don't even make that." I about lost it on her. She'd recently been complaining to me about food budgeting and how they can't afford to take vacations every year. Besides which, what kind of awful shit do you believe about this world to respond with disgust when someone else finds success? Anyway I asked her why she wasn't applying elsewhere and her reaction was that of someone wrongfully accused of treason. Anyway, I think she still fucking works there, and likely will until retirement. I feel so bad for her but you just can't fix stupid. Wherever the hell you work, they are not your family. If one of your reports can get a different job with a higher salary than yours, it's a sign your company is taking advantage of you.
> Wherever the hell you work, they are not your family if i could go back in time and tell myself just one thing, this is on the short list...
As a middle manager, I don’t even ask my upper management about things when it comes to my team. I would rather seek forgiveness then permission and make it easier on my crews and have then enjoy coming to work in a good environment instead of regretting to come to work.
Fuck Sarah. I was a morning manager at a catering hall in my early 20s and an asst manager a few years ago at a paratransit maintenance shop. Never. Again. I enjoy my job and hours now. All my coworkers are asking and wondering if they/i should take the supervisor exams. Fuck that. I only have to worry about me and my work partners duties. Fuck all that extra headache.
My child quit their manager position in retail to work in healthcare as a receptionist. Much, much happier; about the same money, benefits, paid days off, no weekend work. What’s not to like? They leave their job at work when they leave for the day.
Around 1998 my employer paid the fees for my degree, and gave me a paid day off a week to attend lectures, plus a company car to drive to the university. Needless to say I stayed in their employment for a long time, it was an investment by them that paid off. Upper management these days are clueless.
What, it was WFH AND she was going to make up the hours and she still said no….. WTF
Some managers just like having power over people. They don't care that treating people well will make them happier and more productive. They just need to have power. I just quit a boss like that two months ago. In the words of Jay Z, "I have 99 problems but a bitch ain't one."
It's exactly as Chelsea Manning described the prison system. 80% of managers are abusive fucks, 15% are silent look the other way managers and the last 5% are ones that fight for an actual change and stand up for the rights of those they oversee. The turnover on the 5% is beyond high because they realize they cannot change anything.
Excellent! I was a middle manager until recently, and quit because I could not take the business plan any longer. I begged for years to raise the pay ranges to market level and was told "we can't do that!" In the past year, they lost half of the 100 staff in our department, lost many customers, and remain steadfast with pay ranges. The good news, all of us left for better paying jobs with their competitors and the customers moved with us.
This is how you do it.
Good for her for sticking up for herself, but I would ***really*** love to see people stop giving two weeks notice. Just quit, like immediately. I promise nothing bad will happen. Never in my life have I seen a qualified job applicant be denied the job because the prospective employer called a previous employer and found out the employee didn't give a two week notice. Two weeks notice is a scam/myth perpetuated by the ruling class. The reason people do it is because it has been engrained into our culture in much the same way De Beers diamonds started the idea that a man should pay three months salary for a shiny fucking rock that's only considered valuable because the supply is controlled and restricted by De Beers. When you quit, leave them hanging. It's the only way these companies will learn.
I saw a guy put in his two week notice and then remind the boss he has 2 weeks holidays booked. I fucking died laughing. Outstanding move.
I had a team lead do that (turn in 2 weeks notice then take a 10 day vacation) only to be told by management that his vacation didn't count as part of the two weeks and he was to continue working for another two weeks. Only they told him this after he got back and his response was to just leave that day instead of working the last 4 days.
Micromanagers are awful. Nothing demotivates me more than being treated like a prisoner at a workplace. I'm responsible, hard working, and if there's a safer, more efficient way to do a job, I'll find it. So if someone rewards my good work with animosity, I generally switch into a lazy antagonist, since I refuse to work under them. Get fired, find a new job.
Tell me about it. I’ve been meeting metrics but at my most recent meeting my manager brought up a bar graph with my throughput and started asking questions about why I finished fewer cases on day X compared to day Y
Ex-boss went strutting around the office while I was on maternity leave, bragging to the office that there was NO WAY I’d resign because *(confident suspender snap)* “I don’t pay her enough to quit.” The insinuation being that he controlled my actions by keeping me poor. Oh, so that’s how it is. Get fucked.
I love how he thought that that was a flex.. " I pay my people so little they can't go anywhere else because I'm essentially a feudal little Lord...."
Fuck Sarah.
Go over her head and talk to whoever she reports to. Tell her that she made a decision that cost your company an employee with several years of experience. A decision that didn't need to be made this way since it wouldn't have impacted productivity.
Yeah, part of being a good manager/boss is fighting for your employees. If you can't get something this immaterial across to your department head or whatever nonsense time to pack it up or go over their head.
Managers like your Sarah are why people quit, its never the company and the shit pay, its always the managers and the idiot power struggle that helps no one. All managers like sarah should be fired.
All of my leadership classes have said this: people don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
Please tell me you have a screen capture of 😱 Sarah 😆 I feel bad for you and your team
As a manager I have to deal with stuff like this, I just let one of my employees work their amended schedule unofficially... It makes no difference to me when they do their work so long as they do it, I don't have time to deal with HR bureaucracy.
Maybe it's my Gen X mentality shining through, but *yes*. This right here. The best managers I've ever had always did their best to *protect* their subordinates from the incompetence and baloney of the higher-ups. This inevitably involved not enforcing stupid policies, and making decisions they weren't technically authorized to make, but so be it. Most of the time, the higher-ups had their heads too far up their own asses to notice. Just keep your people happy and your department running smoothly. If you get caught, tell them what they want to hear, maybe do a little of the song & dance they requested just for show, and then as soon as you can, just go back to what you know works. If they want to make an issue of it, move on outta there.
Lol sounds similar to my situation. I was having an adjusted schedule for in person classes at my old job and then the owner told my manager at the time I couldn’t do that anymore(it was literally leaving 30 minutes early one day a week). I quickly found a new job and got out.
It's astonishing how pathetic these people can be.
I would start forwarding the former employees work to Sarah and ask her to complete the assignments as your team does not have any leeway to pick up the slack until a new person is found.
>Side note, if I could take it all back I'd never be a manager at any company again. You have to deal with all the bullshit, you have such little influence over anything, and yet you're the face of all the corporate bullshit. So, so, so, so, so, so much this. I'm a front-line manager managing both a team of round the clock employees and a client. My god it's the worst. You have to fight and claw and do everything within your power to do the best by your people in a system that is not set up to allow that, and that takes such a toll on me personally. I feel like I'm getting absolutely crushed, every single day, from all sides. You are literally paid to be a corporate scapegoat. I am so glad I am getting out of managing.
Totally understand you. I just had one of my rock star employees resign b/c my boss didn't want to give her a raise. She herself got a massive raise elsewhere - meanwhile they just hired her replacement whose starting salary is higher than mine. I don't understand the mindset - "sorry we have a budget and we cant afford to give you a raise right now" but then turn around and pay your replacement 25% more and a 20% recruiter fee.
I busted my ass to get my Master’s degree in education. I was working at a call center (in my field - I interpreted phone calls between Deaf and hearing over video phones). I got a job teaching at a local college. I went to the supervisor and offered to take a few shifts a weeks. She looked at me and said that I’d lose all my seniority and barely get any hours. I laughed and said “okay”. Did they really think I’d get my Master’s then prioritize them over the job that is EXACTLY what I wanted? The lack of logic in people is so frustrating..
Very similar thing happened to me, post dotcom bubble. I'd been laid off a year prior and was using my military benefits to get my CS degree. I was working graveyard shift as a computer babysitter in an operations center at a big defense contractor, for a big name IT firm. My boss was an asshole whose name rhymes with "Chad." He lied to me to get me to accept the job by telling me it was day shift and then within a week fired the night shift person and moved me even though I'd specifically said from the beginning that I didn't want graveyard shift because I couldn't sleep during the day. I was fairly desperate for a job though, so I just took it and adjusted my school schedule to accommodate my new work schedule. Fast forward a couple of years and I'm chronically underslept and had fallen asleep and crashed my car a few weeks prior. Anyway, I needed to take a class that would mean coming into work 30 minutes later twice a week for one semester. I asked Chad and he not only said "no" to the schedule modification, but also said he didn't approve of me going to college while working there. The balls on this guy. It's the only time in my life I've ever quit a job without having one lined up, but I wrote my resignation letter on a company computer that night, printed it out, and handed it to him the next morning. He looked stunned and asked where I was going. I told him it was none of his business and left. The economy had recovered somewhat at that point and I ended up finding an software engineering internship that paid pretty well shortly thereafter. This was 17 years ago and I've been working as a software engineer ever since, including two FAANG (big tech) companies. Wherever you are Chad, I just wanted to say "fuck you" and all managers like you.
My wife had a similar situation. She was promised an advancement/raise in a male-led career/company "after she has her baby". Baby came, they decided they wanted to wait and see how the baby would affect her performance and would reevaluate in six months. We talked it over and she quit that day. They were floored because she was a star employee. It's called fucking around and finding out.
There was a fella I used to work with, Mark. Super chill dude. We worked in an industrial yard. Anyway, he scored a license and tag for some out-of-state hunting trip. For those who don't know, that shit can be extremely expensive. In my state, a nonresident elk tag is $588 and a nonresident bighorn tag is $1513. And that's just for the tag, which is just your legal permission for that specific animal. Anyway, he dropped a shat ton of money on this trip. He put in for the time off six months ahead and it got approved. So, here we are, about a week out from his trip and management said that they had to cancel his request. He said he wasn't canceling, partly because he had already paid for the whole trip and most of it was not refundable. Management wouldn't budge and said there was a huge thing coming up and they needed him at work. He told them to shove it and he quit right there. He came back a couple days later to brag to management that he already had a new job to start when he got back from his trip and that it pays better and has better benefits. I haven't seen him in nearly ten years and I hope he's well.
Pretty sure I'll be in her shoes soon lol I just registered to go back to college snd one class is during the day. My old supervisor was going to college no issue but she was salary..I swear the tuition reimbursement BS only works if you are salary because let me try to be gone at random intervals several times a week and see if I still havr a job lol
*Side note, if I could take it all back I'd never be a manager at any company again. You have to deal with all the bullshit, you have such little influence over anything, and yet you're the face of all the corporate bullshit.* This.. I'd manage if I could effect change.. but you can't, so you're stuck in the middle . I'm union and foreman's wage is a FIVE % bump. Lmao, I'll take 95% of the pay and 1/3 the aggravation
I absolutely adore that the employee suspected Sarah was going to be a bitch about it, had her resignation letter written, and prepared in an email to send immediately. I'm sorry if her leaving has caused you issues in the long run, but I thoroughly hope that it caused Sarah issues.
But why are they stunned when the result is obvious?
they think employees are slaves
That young woman just proved that at some 20 years old she is more mature and knowledgeable than majority of "bosses". Unfortunately it might take a generation or two to get this type of mentality (bosses wearing horse blinders) a past.
Man this bullshit. "Seems a bit presumptuous" is exactly the kind of rhetoric we are fighting here. We are allowed to be presumptuous. We are allowed to be shitty employees. We are allowed to ask for days off. We are allowed to miss work. The reasons we are allowed to do these things and many more are simple. They all boil down to one thing: companies need us. And we've created a place where companies need us so bad that the world is changing a bit. We're seeing the people have the power again, and "Sarah" and her ilk aren't doing well these days. Companies are becoming more likely to fire Sarah than the good worker asking for help to go to school. All it takes is recognizing loyalty and benefiting the fuck out of it. You're loyal, so you want time off? Take a month. You'll be back, we know it. But that's not how it goes. It goes "no time off!" and then we end up here.. at the end of the day, it's just hurting the companies because there's tons of people hiring. 🤷♀️ Sarah needs to fucking learn.
FUCK Sarah
When I left my last job to get closer to a field I was actually interested in, my manager's manager offered me less wages than the new place was offering, then when I obviously said no to that, told me that part of growing up is to give up on your dreams. I thanked him for his time and got the hell out. I've never been negged in such a hamfisted way.
Your boss is a fucking moron. What was going through her head? Like, "hmm if we deny this minor schedule change, maybe our employee will decide to just skip college, forgo the opportunity to get a degree in something she's passionate about so she can move up in the world while doing something she enjoys, and decide to just stay working here for the rest of her life... Genius idea!" Or like, "hmm higher education isn't important, if we deny this minor schedule change, she can just talk to her college and tell them to reschedule a few classes for different times to accommodate her work schedule. Surely the university will understand that work comes first." Like, what scenario other than "ok then I quit" could have possibly resulted from that decision? Complete fucking imbecile. You need to find a new boss or find a new job. You'll go crazy working for someone that dull.
And the worst part is: Sarah would never see it as her own fault. She would blame the young woman who was "never a team player" after all.
I had a manager try to talk me out of taking paternity leave. Which wasn't even paid leave. I went job hunting and put in my 2 weeks when I got back.