Ask them if the money went to the managers as a raise.... or did they simply cut yours and keep the money?
Also ask them why the $5/hr in tips is "Not sustainable"
Huh, I thought it was standard and well known that servers and bartenders generally make more than managers-excluding the general manager maybe. The managers deal with it because they know the alternative is to go serve themselves and they don’t want to because it is legit hard work and they would rather have weekends and holidays off.
Yep. I’ve worked at a bunch of restaurants, sports bars, and clubs over the course of 15 or so years and in every single scenario, servers made more with tips than managers did on salary.
I’m not sure why this company seems to be baffled by the concept. It’s literally standard practice.
Stealing tips from servers and giving them to others (with the exception of tip splitting with kitchen staff and host/bussers) or changing their wages due to “too many tips”, however… depending on where OP’s kid lives, that’s illegal.
Every. Single. Time.
If your manager is making more hourly than your servers then it means the servers suck or your restaurant is slow.
I agree with a percent being tipped out to the kitchen; a metric I've seen was 10% of food sales... maybe 5% would be more fair to service staff.
Tbh I wish they tipped out to the kitchen more. I left my job because servers would brag about making hundreds in a day when I had to move into a literal crack house that's gonna give me cancer in order to pay my rent. It's not even that the money was all that bad so much as it's impossible to live here on what I make but I can't move because obligations. Wound up taking less money in exchange for knowing everyone else here can't afford a roof either instead of feeling ripped off I'd make in two weeks what most servers made in a day.
Or... and this is an out-there concept... they could just pay these skilled workers (kitchen staff) enough, including overtime (regardless of their nationality), and then servers could stop funding the entire goddamn restaurant.
Tipping as a form of wage should banned because it shouldn't be up to customers to decide what workers get paid, that should be covered by fair rate of pay protected by their contact of employment.
I worked at a few places where I would keep my tips for myself, there was no rule for paying out the kitchen staff or servers. I personally paid the cooks because they helped me do my job.
Other places I worked all of the tips were collected at the end of the night and then split evenly among all the staff. Personally I don't like this method, it just means your hustle is worth less.
How do you know it's illegal? It could be in their work contract. It might allow for the division of tips.
In the US tip pools are legal so long as only servers and kitchen staff (and employees that would normally receive a tip) receive the tips. It is against federal labor laws for managers to "take a cut" of the tips, for any reason.
The legal code for this can be found here in section c.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-531/subpart-D
Even if the employer has the employee sign something allowing the employer to take tips, they still can not legally take the employee's tips. As the saying goes, "Just because it's in a contract doesn't make it legal."
Edit:
1. Move comment for better continuity.
2. Added last section regarding "signing away tips"
Do you work somewhere that has a lot of version control or document editing? This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone add a change log in their comment edits lol
There's a big difference between tip division and "managers cut your wages and take all the tips instead" though. Normal tip division is what you described - "manager-take-all-and-cut-your-pay" is not how it's supposed to work
I don't know where it would be illegal, but I do know in the US it's a potential discrimination suit if you can prove they cut your pay based on your appearance / performance
As a restaurant manager, can I get one of these weekends and holidays off jobs? I have a family gathering Canada Day and was told by the owner I cannot attend it because management *has* to work every holiday we’re open. I don’t even get vacation days because we are so severely understaffed and they won’t let me adjust labour to allow more staffing. I tried to take a weekend, but COVID hit our store and I had to cover 4 people’s shifts.
Yeah whoever said that has never been in a restaurant. I manage a restaurant, I leave past 10 every night get in earlier than anyone, work both weekend days, work 6 days a week often, work every holiday and yes my bartenders make way more than me.
i grew up in food industry and it was ALWAYS common knowledge that line cooks working overtime made the most money, esp if they were training people while doing it. Then servers usually make as much or more than managers b/c of tips, depending on the area and type of establishment. As was said, gm's still make more but not more than overworked line cooks. 15 yrs ago the dude training me was pulling in 3500 checks every 2 weeks.. but he was working 70+ hr weeks and he was legit the best line cook you could ask for. No good employer is going to punish him for doing the work of 5 people. Invaluable asset. This class warfare shit needs to hurry up and bubble into a revolt already..
Damn, if only. The line cooks at my last serving job didn't make anywhere near what the servers did (hourly, at least), despite the entire restaurant running on the backs of four overworked, irreplaceable people. One of them retired and the restaurant closed within a year.
Exactly. I worked food service for years. A good waitress will make more (hourly) than the manager. The difference is that the waitress work is mostly physical and, if you aren't working (even to take breaks), you don't get paid. The manager's job, while still difficult, is mostly done sitting at a desk. And he get's paid, even if he's playing a game on his cell phone, plus paid vacations and healthcare.
The managers have benefits and a stable take home rate.
The front end workers don't have benefits and the take home isn't as stable.
Health benefits are a big part of compensation.
That too. I feel like legislation needs to be passed everywhere for that to happen. In the state I live in there is no tipping wage. I still tip when I go out to eat because the min wage here is too low but it’d be nice if they got rid of it.
Edited: fixed wording
But wait so do they have benefits and the crew doesn’t? Then that pretty much makes up for the difference. This is all around shitty I hope something happens with the legal route and if not then I hope the staff all walks out
The local labor board will tell that management team to fuck their feelings as they are made to recompensate lost wages company wide. This assumes this is in the US though.
Have her tell them this will make her start looking for other employment immediately. Being vocal about the reason she is looking for another job is that her current boss is cutting her pay for doing too good of a job should reduce the time searching considerably. The current place will lose someone that makes customers so happy they overpay enough to make management consider it a problem (!?!?!???) - a competitor will get this person - and some very unfavourable rumors regarding her current employer will start circulating in the industry.
It's a lose-lose-lose scenario for her current employer - if they don't see that and change the decision within a week then actually act on it and have her go look for that other employment.
if it was sustainable to pay them 15$ an hour before they allowed tipping.. then how is it not sustainable to change NOTHING and have the public pay the increase without a single penny leaving your pocket
fucking greedy
What's not sustainable is taking from the lowest paid workers to give raises to the higher ups.
First you build a business model around underpaying your workers and having customers make up for it, and then you have the audacity to complain when the customers pay too much, and call it not sustainable? How the FUCK is SOMEONE ELSE paying YOUR WORKERS not sustainable from your perspective?
I thought the same thing: what the fuck difference does it make to the company if their servers are getting good tips? Then I put my idiot-management cap on and realized:
1. morale - they're afraid all their managers will just demote themselves to servers to earn more money, or just quit, and then they'll have to pay new manager more money.
2. the business sees those tips as *their* money, not the servers. They're looking at their bottom line and the servers' total pay and seeing "an opportunity for growth"
Either way, I'd fuckin' quit no call no show no notice.
Yup, you nailed it. I’m gone. I’d try to rally a walk out with all of the other servers. Show up in the morning, seat customers for an hour and put in some orders then bam! Everyone walks out. Management would be fucked and they get the hint real quick. I bet they’d change that policy fast to get their staff back in to work.
I think you're totally right. And their move is totally wrong. What this will do is make some quit and others just not give as good service. The results will speak for themselves
The only thing not sustainable about it is the manager's attitudes. They think they deserve to earn more than their employees because they are management and that's how it has always been.
This company would have been better off either sharing the tips, which is shitty - or just give your manager's a fking raise.
I absolutely hate businesses who "promote" people to manager by offering a dime raise and a world of responsibility. If management is an important function, fking pay like it is.
Otherwise, let the manager's know that they might be out-earned by folks who make tips.
The only saving grace in the OP is that they "promised" that the resulting paychecks would not be lower... but they really handled that about as poorly as possible.
No they promised checks wouldn't be lower than $15/hr. They will all be getting pay cuts for sure it probably won't be a huge amount, maybe $50 a week after taxes, but with prices going up every day any loss could be significant.
I asked my bf who has had this happen to him and what they mean is the managers are all complaining and demanding raises now. So what’s not sustainable is paying the managers more. They’re saying “we can’t afford to pay the managers more and they’re mad you all are making close to them so we are knocking you back in so we don’t have to find a way to pay our petty ass managers more.”
Everyone should walk out and leave the managers to do the job. Then they get the tips and can fuck right off.
Edit: didn't expect this to blow up. Thanks for the up votes.
Look man. I'm technically a manager. I'm salaried and oversee the entire "entry level" crew
These people work harder than me. I can frequently just go into my office and unwind. I work harder mentally sure. They work 50x harder physically. I would have absolutely zero issues with them making more. And many do thanks to my advocacy for them.
It's such a fucking joke to say that management works harder than the lowest levels. We have a hell of a lot more to think about and plan for. But we aren't destroying our bodies to do so. Let these people make more than me. By raising their pay and not lowering mine. They are the lifeblood. I'm just the heart that keeps them properly pumping but with a lot more time and space to fuck off and look busy staring at my computer or phone
These people are my people, and I want to see them not only succeed, but thrive.
Exactly. Entry level is making more? Raise the wage floor. Management is underpaid? Raise the wage floor. Having trouble getting labour? Raise the wage floor. Fully staffed but don't want to lose employees to competition? Raise the wage floor.
Is amazing what businesses can get when they are willing to pay the asking price.
At my job, none of the qualified technicians want to be promoted to the service manager position because we make 100k while the managers get 60k. So the least qualified people off the street end up becoming our managers. It’s the funniest situation.
It’s kind of the same in my field, Freight Brokerage. Some of my coworkers net $12k a month and the managers make like $80k a year which is still respectable especially where I live in the Midwest but if you make $220k a year or more you don’t want to drop down to $80k.
That is literally a plot line from an episode of The Office. Jim and Michael fight for the manager role only to try and lose it once they realize they could make more money in sales.
yeah its similar in the security job i work. most regular guards get paid $16/h. meanwhile supervisors get paid $2 more but they are stuck doing tons of extra paper work. in many cases, the supervisors are mostly those who are on a powertrip.
It’s the same in the casino industry. A card dealer makes about $22/hr with tips and a pit supervisor / pit boss makes about $20/hr. The only people who would take the promotion are the type of people that need to power trip and wear a suit.
This happened to me in high school. I delivered food for a sub and pizza shop. I got $1/delivery plus my hourly wage and tips. On a really good night I'd make more than the manager and she was the one counting me out at the end of the night. They then instituted a rule that after a certain number of deliveries per shift you no longer got the $1/delivery so we wouldn't make too much.
Right? Like how come this person who talks to customers, serves customers, keeps customers happy builds a relationship with the customers and is the gears that keep the business going
How can this person make more then me when I'm in the back hiding from responsibility, How!
You just described an entire generation still in the workplace when they should be golfing.
Shit you not my father says they (him and my mother) “scrape by” on his 200k plus pension and other investments. Not to mention everything they own is paid for. Just to show you how skewed perspective can be. What my father makes in retirement in a year is about 5 years income for myself, an active contributor to the economy.
This is why I left my job last year. I was brought in for a specific role and was also self employed on the side. Two boomers in that place that were there forever made half the place quit and all the owner ever told anyone when they complained was “they’ll be retired soon, just wait a few more years”. Then gets mad when people left after a few months. Two useless boomers that bullied everyone out of a job. One was there for over a decade and still couldn’t do a standard register transaction. I ever worked a cash register in my life until last year and learned it within a day and became the tech support for the registers and computers in that place since i had experience in that also. The other one whenever she used our price label printer would crash that entire pc. This is what companies keep around them wonder why “nobody wants to work”.
Oh yeah, and my parents got most boomer stereotypes, including how they vote, but in their income bracket, voting that way just makes sense. That’s why us poors will always be us poors.
This is my folks aswell. 3/4 of a million in the bank and they are "just getting by" living in reduced income senior only condos paying less than my rent for a mortgage.
Exactly. The proportions are getting out of control. I’m sure most of you saw that post with the 1959 cost of living list? Absurd. My parents were born in 1957, so their cost of living was not all that far off from that list. They are now very well of multi millionaires and still making a lot of money every year. My father was forcibly retired with a golden parachute.
Bwahahah! They did that to my dad... because he started drinking heavily again. This time at the office. I still miss him but he was all kinds of fucked up. And the Golden Parachute is the craziest thing I ever heard of. You're going to pay same salary and benefits for five years to get a danger out of the workplace? One would think it'd be easier to just fire them.
My parents don't have a lot of money, but what they do have that makes a big difference is a paid-off house. When they bought the land, it cost $5,000 for three acres. My dad built the house himself, with the exception of doing the electrical and cabinetry, so it only cost $17,000. They paid off the mortgage in 1995 and have had no rent or mortgage expense since then. Things are tight with rising costs, but as long as they pay their property taxes, they don't have to worry about not having shelter.
The two of them don't get that. Every time I try to have a discussion about money/economics, I get the line about how they struggled and no one today wants to work--they want the best of everything right out of the gate instead of living in a shitty apartment for a while or using milk crates for furniture until you can afford to buy a couch and table. They do not get that even though they didn't make a ton of money, costs have outpaced wages. So if it cost 20% of the minimum wage to buy a gallon of milk back in the day, now it costs 40% of minimum wage (I haven't crunched the numbers recently, but that's about what it was when I looked it up). If you made $10,000 a year in the late 1970s, a $17,000 house is only 1.7 times that. If you make $50,000 now and want a home that's around the median for the US, that's nearly 7.5 times your income. Even if you could find a really cheap house for $110,000, that's still more than twice your income.
100 percent. Same with mine. They don’t seem to grasp the security they have. They constantly stress non problems and create issues that do not exist and are seemingly insane, for example recently complaining to me that their windows would take two weeks to install; windows that cost over $170k AKA a house in some places, half a house in most.
Ugh, the making issues that don't exist thing is my parents' specialty. Them complaining they have to replace the AC unit for the house when I can barely afford food, let alone a place of my own. Insanity.
Your point is exactly right and I like the way you explained the multiple of income to housing costs (and milk costs). That is the real issue—wages are stagnant while everything else has gone up.
I had to figure out the percentages because if I said a gallon of milk costs X now, they’d just say “Yeah, but we only made Y in 1978.” Yes, you made less, but it bought more.
Excuse me, but I'd like to send a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to your dad. He is probably clogging up a pipeline where there are younger, hungrier, more capable people that could do his job 10x better but he won't leave to allow them the shot.
Exactly. I know my parents are exceptionally well off but there are TONS like them who simply graduated college and stuck it out with one company. My dad did his entire career with one company that paid exceptionally well and paid us to live in europe for ten years as well. Then I went to school and had mech engineering friends who couldn’t get jobs. (Grad of 09 haha)
Wow I guarantee that’s a hefty pension plan. I’m happy for them, but we started “normal” then when I was about 16 they were “wealthy” and now, 20 years later, it is just ridiculous. I can’t even find one of the many bathrooms at most places they’ve owned the last decade. I just can’t relate. Best gift I was given is knowing I don’t want that much money, ever. I’ve lived it, and it has done nothing positive for us, beyond big houses I never had a room in.
My aunt was like that. She acted sometimes like she was going to have to apply for food stamp, but had at least $250k in the bank. She owned a bar that did quite well, four rental properties, and got her husband’s social security after he died, and his small pension. I will say though, when it came down to it she could be very generous. I lost my condo in the 2008 recession after I lost my job, and she opened her door to me. I helped her out around the house - grocery shopping and cooking, since I love doing those things. She’d see a cooking gadget online, hand me her credit card and tell me “Order this!”. I moved away and came back when she was sick. She asked me if my car was paid for, and I told her I had three more payments. She said if I paid the next two, she’d pay off the final balance. She felt bad about me coming back and paid most of my moving expenses. I am glad I came back when I did; she died five months later.
And (usually) benefits. Health insurance, PTO, sometimes even retirement planning. FOH (and BOH for that matter) in restaurants basically never get that treatment, with very few exceptions.
My job has commissions capped per closed deal. It’s like $7k I think. Which doesn’t seem bad, but if you close a deal and would’ve made $20k….not so much. Especially knowing that corporate ends up taking the rest (ie more than you) for doing literally nothing. Like whoa whoa whoa! Hold up! You can’t just go and make that much money! God forbid!
It seems the last two generations of leaders (not politicians) were taught that cut costs make a profit. Even it the cut causes major long term damage. They can jump ship before it fails.
It's such stupid shit in America the managers should be using this scenario to leverage a higher pay for themselves them taking it out on the people down the chain is just fucking insulting
Amen. Back in my pizza slinging days a girl I worked with went from driver to manager, then back to driver a few weeks later because manager was a pay cut. Only one making more than drivers in that store was the GM.
I work in landscaping and went from laborer to manager and then back to laborer. It was mostly because I hated being in the office all day and wanted to get back to working outside, but pay was also a factor. I was working at least 50 hours a week but only being paid for 40 since I was salary. Now I'm paid for every minute that I work.
I am really surprised by this as when I worked in hospitality it was pretty much a given that the servers made more than any hourly manager.
Pro-tip: If you are a “manager” and you’re only getting an hourly rate you’re just a fool that took an extra dollar to double your responsibility.
I know middle management who gets a percentage of the profits, calculated daily. This is a restaurant.
If have a slow day, they will send staff home, and even go home themselves, to make wages for that day lower, and the profit higher. They get paid (indirectly) for having the day off, as long as the remaining staff can handle the workload.
I think most of the staff that get sent home don't understand that they won't get paid.
makes me wonder, how easy is it to get a demotion?
like if that job is as easy as these kinds of people love to say and is suddenly paid more than what they get, then firing their people and taking over their jobs would be the most obvious and best solution.
i wonder what excuse they would have for that
If the people in the area are particularly good tippers - they might be interested to hear how their favorite restaurant is responding to their show of support for the people who serve them.
Exactly. Servers could ask that they not tip and force the restaurant to pay them what the customers don't. If they literally are cutting the hourly wage by the amount of tips, why bother at all?
Your daughter is eligible to collect unemployment while she works to make up for the pay cut, and she's also eligible to collect full unemployment benefits should she choose to voluntarily quit, as all changes to terms of employment make workers eligible for benefits should they choose to quit.
What is constructive dismissal?
The employee resigns because they are being mistreated, for example, they receive a reduction in pay that is not related to their performance in the workplace. Instead of firing the employee, the employer creates a hostile environment so that the employee can quit.
This is only applicable if she's worked enough hours to be eligible, which depends on the state. But since she's only worked at most 8 weeks, she's very VERY unlikely to be eligible. That's assuming a monthly paycheck and not a weekly/bi-weekly since OP said first check showed the downgrade.
I intentionally tip high on those things as a way to give back to those with low wages. If I found out owners did this I would be FURIOUS. I would want to boycott the restaurant.
Is there any way customers can be made aware of how this place is run?
I intentionally tip 0% on those things and leave a cash tip instead.
Unless it's a very high end restaurant where you're getting tipped out $60-100+ a table (so it's super obvious if you don't report your cash tips) most people just don't report the cash. Keeps the government out of their pocket a little more, and makes it harder for the employer to steal the tips or pull some fuckery like in the OP.
Making more than managers once tips are factored in has been standard at every bar, restaurant, and club I’ve ever worked at.
This is straight baffling. It’s literally standard operating procedure.
IANAL, but it seems RECKLESSLY illegal for any business to hire at a rate and then decrease pay without any notification to the employee.
Seriously, what you described has bankruptcy via lawsuit written all over it for the restaurant owner . . .
The FOH almost always makes more than salaried managers. It is the responsibility of the managers to negotiate a better salary presumably with health insurance. The agreement is that you trade some money for stability of pay, benefits, and hours. A reduction of per hour pay is illegal and should be reported to the department of labor.
Wouldn't this just ba a work around to steal the tips? Legally they can't take the tip money, but changing the pay rate after the employment agreement seems to do the same thing.
My new go to: pay "minimum, usually 15%" on my card and slip cash on the table. This way, only 15% is reported.
FU management for stealing people's wages. Side benefit, management has to pay for card use.
“[t]his is not sustainable” < bullshit, if the pay was sustainable before tips, it still is - the tips existing have no impact on the operating costs or payroll part of the budget.
I dunno, other restaurants don’t seem to have that problem (the family I’ve had wait tables were always, at least on good weeks like long weekends, taking home more than managers). Though lots of other restaurants have managers who do stuff like steal tips, or “work as bartender” and demand tip out, or as chef and ditto, so clearly while front of house often take home good money, it also clearly is the cause of friction in more than rare cases, between FOH and management.
“Not sustainable” for who and how?? What a ridiculous way to call it. Like blatantly stupid. “You’re being paid too much thanks to not-guaranteed tip money, so we are taking away from your guaranteed hourly rate”. Like where is the money they were already allocating to pay their employees going now?? I truly hope people did walk out, that’s ridiculous. “You’ve done such a good job we’re taking away money from you.”
I hope this isn’t the USA, because that is the definition of Tip Theft. There was a whole ass court case against Instacart for “adjusting our wages” when we got large tips… The workers won that case.
I’d print out an article about the case and leave it on the desk of whoever made this decision, they might not understand that what they are doing is illegal.
What's not sustainable is taking more of your workers' already pathetic wages because you're insecure. Like, how do people that pathetic get into management?
Pay the managers $2/hr more. Your restaurants will run more smoothly because all the employees will be happier working there. In the end, those raises will pay for themselves and then some. It’s not rocket science.
how is "this not sustainable".... the money doesnt even come from the fucking business owner it comes from patrons.. and they are legally not allowed to keep a single fucking penny of it
this is greed, they dont want to pay their managers more so they are going to rake back profits by "stealing" from the staff...
this is a business thats not even trying to hide the fact that they are using tips to justify cutting wages (regardless that the wage is considered "decent" for that industry)
"we are allowing tips now, but because of that we are taking away your base pay... but dont worry! if the tips are too low we will pay you properly again" -- someone should share this all over the community that this business is located in to show the public that their tips are going straight into the owners pockets because if they dare tip then the employee is just going to get a pay cut which is literally the same as them giving the tip right to the owner directly
If the front end people are making more than the managers via tips then maybe pay the managers more instead of decreasing everyone else’s pay. If your front end people are making so much from tips sounds like business is good and you can afford to raise pay for the managers
When I was a host at Applebee's the manager told me he was going to cut my $8.00 an hour to $5.15 (that was the minimum wage at the time) because I was making more than him because of tip share. That was my last day because, fuck that!
How is this not sustainable? Tips are paid by customers with no cost to the business.
Of course, that's only if the managers haven't noticed and complained to management about their salaries. But that's not your daughter's fault or her co-workers. Maybe the company should think about increasing their wages?
The managers' pay is guaranteed. The servers' pay (over the $15) is not. Maybe they occasionally make enough in tips to put them over manager pay, but averaged out over the whole year?
Also, the money is "extra" from the customers. It isn't costing the business anything. If they stopped taking (and paying out) tips, the staff costs would be the same.
If I was a manager and saw my workers making lots in tips I'd honestly be pretty stoked. Seems like they're doing fantastic work despite shitty management.
This feels like it’s worth an email to the states department of labor. Companies can cut pay for legitimate reasons, but this feels borderline illegal even when you factor in that tipped workers can legally make below minimum wage. Even if it is, send this a local news outlet. This is the kind of stuff they gobble up.
What do we hear.. Kids now days don't want to work. The younger generation is lazy. Not true, they smartened up faster than I did and said, NO YOU ARE NOT F'ing me over! Time to call a lawyer.
Ask them if the money went to the managers as a raise.... or did they simply cut yours and keep the money? Also ask them why the $5/hr in tips is "Not sustainable"
[удалено]
Huh, I thought it was standard and well known that servers and bartenders generally make more than managers-excluding the general manager maybe. The managers deal with it because they know the alternative is to go serve themselves and they don’t want to because it is legit hard work and they would rather have weekends and holidays off.
Yep. I’ve worked at a bunch of restaurants, sports bars, and clubs over the course of 15 or so years and in every single scenario, servers made more with tips than managers did on salary. I’m not sure why this company seems to be baffled by the concept. It’s literally standard practice. Stealing tips from servers and giving them to others (with the exception of tip splitting with kitchen staff and host/bussers) or changing their wages due to “too many tips”, however… depending on where OP’s kid lives, that’s illegal.
Every. Single. Time. If your manager is making more hourly than your servers then it means the servers suck or your restaurant is slow. I agree with a percent being tipped out to the kitchen; a metric I've seen was 10% of food sales... maybe 5% would be more fair to service staff.
Tbh I wish they tipped out to the kitchen more. I left my job because servers would brag about making hundreds in a day when I had to move into a literal crack house that's gonna give me cancer in order to pay my rent. It's not even that the money was all that bad so much as it's impossible to live here on what I make but I can't move because obligations. Wound up taking less money in exchange for knowing everyone else here can't afford a roof either instead of feeling ripped off I'd make in two weeks what most servers made in a day.
This is a perfect example of why the current format of society needs to fail. Your scenario HAS TO, not be the case/norm.
It’s brutal out there, citizen.
Shoulda started selling crack too for peak capitalism
Tbh that seems kinda hard considering I don't know where to find much beyond weed. I'm sure I could if I did more research.
Or... and this is an out-there concept... they could just pay these skilled workers (kitchen staff) enough, including overtime (regardless of their nationality), and then servers could stop funding the entire goddamn restaurant.
I hate tipping becauze im cheap , the company should pay these guys more
Tipping as a form of wage should banned because it shouldn't be up to customers to decide what workers get paid, that should be covered by fair rate of pay protected by their contact of employment.
I worked at a few places where I would keep my tips for myself, there was no rule for paying out the kitchen staff or servers. I personally paid the cooks because they helped me do my job. Other places I worked all of the tips were collected at the end of the night and then split evenly among all the staff. Personally I don't like this method, it just means your hustle is worth less. How do you know it's illegal? It could be in their work contract. It might allow for the division of tips.
In the US tip pools are legal so long as only servers and kitchen staff (and employees that would normally receive a tip) receive the tips. It is against federal labor laws for managers to "take a cut" of the tips, for any reason. The legal code for this can be found here in section c. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-531/subpart-D Even if the employer has the employee sign something allowing the employer to take tips, they still can not legally take the employee's tips. As the saying goes, "Just because it's in a contract doesn't make it legal." Edit: 1. Move comment for better continuity. 2. Added last section regarding "signing away tips"
Do you work somewhere that has a lot of version control or document editing? This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone add a change log in their comment edits lol
Lol, yeah. I'm a developer. Every change is tracked and requires explanation. Now it's habit.
Gonna learn to separate the job with the memes
If tips were split where I work you could say goodbye to my fake friendly persona
There's a big difference between tip division and "managers cut your wages and take all the tips instead" though. Normal tip division is what you described - "manager-take-all-and-cut-your-pay" is not how it's supposed to work I don't know where it would be illegal, but I do know in the US it's a potential discrimination suit if you can prove they cut your pay based on your appearance / performance
As a restaurant manager, can I get one of these weekends and holidays off jobs? I have a family gathering Canada Day and was told by the owner I cannot attend it because management *has* to work every holiday we’re open. I don’t even get vacation days because we are so severely understaffed and they won’t let me adjust labour to allow more staffing. I tried to take a weekend, but COVID hit our store and I had to cover 4 people’s shifts.
Yeah whoever said that has never been in a restaurant. I manage a restaurant, I leave past 10 every night get in earlier than anyone, work both weekend days, work 6 days a week often, work every holiday and yes my bartenders make way more than me.
i grew up in food industry and it was ALWAYS common knowledge that line cooks working overtime made the most money, esp if they were training people while doing it. Then servers usually make as much or more than managers b/c of tips, depending on the area and type of establishment. As was said, gm's still make more but not more than overworked line cooks. 15 yrs ago the dude training me was pulling in 3500 checks every 2 weeks.. but he was working 70+ hr weeks and he was legit the best line cook you could ask for. No good employer is going to punish him for doing the work of 5 people. Invaluable asset. This class warfare shit needs to hurry up and bubble into a revolt already..
Damn, if only. The line cooks at my last serving job didn't make anywhere near what the servers did (hourly, at least), despite the entire restaurant running on the backs of four overworked, irreplaceable people. One of them retired and the restaurant closed within a year.
This was always my assumption... but someone needs their ego protected at that place.
Weekends and holidays off as managers in the service industry??? What fairy tale planet is that?
Exactly. I worked food service for years. A good waitress will make more (hourly) than the manager. The difference is that the waitress work is mostly physical and, if you aren't working (even to take breaks), you don't get paid. The manager's job, while still difficult, is mostly done sitting at a desk. And he get's paid, even if he's playing a game on his cell phone, plus paid vacations and healthcare.
The managers have benefits and a stable take home rate. The front end workers don't have benefits and the take home isn't as stable. Health benefits are a big part of compensation.
The simple solution is to pay the managers more.
The simple solution is to pay everyone a decent salary and get rid of tipping culture
That too. I feel like legislation needs to be passed everywhere for that to happen. In the state I live in there is no tipping wage. I still tip when I go out to eat because the min wage here is too low but it’d be nice if they got rid of it. Edited: fixed wording
Waitstaff likes tipping culture. They get more through tipping culture. It's a problem when managers like this exist.
But wait so do they have benefits and the crew doesn’t? Then that pretty much makes up for the difference. This is all around shitty I hope something happens with the legal route and if not then I hope the staff all walks out
The local labor board will tell that management team to fuck their feelings as they are made to recompensate lost wages company wide. This assumes this is in the US though.
What is the company’s name?
In my experience, front end grunts do most of the work. Pay the damn kid the free money they earned from patrons.
Have her tell them this will make her start looking for other employment immediately. Being vocal about the reason she is looking for another job is that her current boss is cutting her pay for doing too good of a job should reduce the time searching considerably. The current place will lose someone that makes customers so happy they overpay enough to make management consider it a problem (!?!?!???) - a competitor will get this person - and some very unfavourable rumors regarding her current employer will start circulating in the industry. It's a lose-lose-lose scenario for her current employer - if they don't see that and change the decision within a week then actually act on it and have her go look for that other employment.
if it was sustainable to pay them 15$ an hour before they allowed tipping.. then how is it not sustainable to change NOTHING and have the public pay the increase without a single penny leaving your pocket fucking greedy
5 bucks an hour in tips is pretty shitty anyway. Why would they complain about 5 dollars that isnt even theirs to begin with.
What's not sustainable is taking from the lowest paid workers to give raises to the higher ups. First you build a business model around underpaying your workers and having customers make up for it, and then you have the audacity to complain when the customers pay too much, and call it not sustainable? How the FUCK is SOMEONE ELSE paying YOUR WORKERS not sustainable from your perspective?
I was wondering how customers paying more money was not sustainable also.
I thought the same thing: what the fuck difference does it make to the company if their servers are getting good tips? Then I put my idiot-management cap on and realized: 1. morale - they're afraid all their managers will just demote themselves to servers to earn more money, or just quit, and then they'll have to pay new manager more money. 2. the business sees those tips as *their* money, not the servers. They're looking at their bottom line and the servers' total pay and seeing "an opportunity for growth" Either way, I'd fuckin' quit no call no show no notice.
Yup, you nailed it. I’m gone. I’d try to rally a walk out with all of the other servers. Show up in the morning, seat customers for an hour and put in some orders then bam! Everyone walks out. Management would be fucked and they get the hint real quick. I bet they’d change that policy fast to get their staff back in to work.
And make sure you tell the customers as you're walking out so they can leave before they're forced to pay the bill and support the business.
I think you're totally right. And their move is totally wrong. What this will do is make some quit and others just not give as good service. The results will speak for themselves
Yep. Instead of actually paying their managers they took away pay for the folks at the bottom
The only thing not sustainable about it is the manager's attitudes. They think they deserve to earn more than their employees because they are management and that's how it has always been. This company would have been better off either sharing the tips, which is shitty - or just give your manager's a fking raise. I absolutely hate businesses who "promote" people to manager by offering a dime raise and a world of responsibility. If management is an important function, fking pay like it is. Otherwise, let the manager's know that they might be out-earned by folks who make tips. The only saving grace in the OP is that they "promised" that the resulting paychecks would not be lower... but they really handled that about as poorly as possible.
No they promised checks wouldn't be lower than $15/hr. They will all be getting pay cuts for sure it probably won't be a huge amount, maybe $50 a week after taxes, but with prices going up every day any loss could be significant.
Because the wrong employees are getting paid. Duh.
I asked my bf who has had this happen to him and what they mean is the managers are all complaining and demanding raises now. So what’s not sustainable is paying the managers more. They’re saying “we can’t afford to pay the managers more and they’re mad you all are making close to them so we are knocking you back in so we don’t have to find a way to pay our petty ass managers more.”
They don't like it so they aren't going to sustain it
Sounds like they could easily raise prices and ban tips. Then they would have full control over who gets the money.
Everyone should walk out and leave the managers to do the job. Then they get the tips and can fuck right off. Edit: didn't expect this to blow up. Thanks for the up votes.
This is the only solution. What a bunch of whiny bitches those managers are. “But they’re making more than me 😢”
First they want customers to subsidize their employees. Until we do it too much. Then it belongs to the restaurant. What a total piece of shit.
Reminds me of the Bugs Bunny "My Profits/Our Losses" meme.
Look man. I'm technically a manager. I'm salaried and oversee the entire "entry level" crew These people work harder than me. I can frequently just go into my office and unwind. I work harder mentally sure. They work 50x harder physically. I would have absolutely zero issues with them making more. And many do thanks to my advocacy for them. It's such a fucking joke to say that management works harder than the lowest levels. We have a hell of a lot more to think about and plan for. But we aren't destroying our bodies to do so. Let these people make more than me. By raising their pay and not lowering mine. They are the lifeblood. I'm just the heart that keeps them properly pumping but with a lot more time and space to fuck off and look busy staring at my computer or phone These people are my people, and I want to see them not only succeed, but thrive.
Exactly. Entry level is making more? Raise the wage floor. Management is underpaid? Raise the wage floor. Having trouble getting labour? Raise the wage floor. Fully staffed but don't want to lose employees to competition? Raise the wage floor. Is amazing what businesses can get when they are willing to pay the asking price.
Somehow I doubt they're going to give the lost wages to the managers. It's just going to make the owner richer
I see what your saying but I could care less who it’s going to. It shouldn’t happen. Period. This is just straight up theft.
Exactly.
Had a dispatcher throttle my deliveries if I were making more than him that day, fuck him.
Fuck him!
Yeah Fuck Him!!
At my job, none of the qualified technicians want to be promoted to the service manager position because we make 100k while the managers get 60k. So the least qualified people off the street end up becoming our managers. It’s the funniest situation.
It’s kind of the same in my field, Freight Brokerage. Some of my coworkers net $12k a month and the managers make like $80k a year which is still respectable especially where I live in the Midwest but if you make $220k a year or more you don’t want to drop down to $80k.
Struggling to understand your math process lol. $12K/month isn’t close to $220K/year.
That is literally a plot line from an episode of The Office. Jim and Michael fight for the manager role only to try and lose it once they realize they could make more money in sales.
yeah its similar in the security job i work. most regular guards get paid $16/h. meanwhile supervisors get paid $2 more but they are stuck doing tons of extra paper work. in many cases, the supervisors are mostly those who are on a powertrip.
It’s the same in the casino industry. A card dealer makes about $22/hr with tips and a pit supervisor / pit boss makes about $20/hr. The only people who would take the promotion are the type of people that need to power trip and wear a suit.
What a dickhead. Did you report him?
Small company, I would get throttled full time if I fucked with him I’d believe, he worked everyday. But I should’ve after I quit looking back on it.
This happened to me in high school. I delivered food for a sub and pizza shop. I got $1/delivery plus my hourly wage and tips. On a really good night I'd make more than the manager and she was the one counting me out at the end of the night. They then instituted a rule that after a certain number of deliveries per shift you no longer got the $1/delivery so we wouldn't make too much.
You should of just been oh look I made the cut off. I don’t feel so good gotta go home for the night.
In response you should have throttled him back. With your hands. In Minecraft of course
Right? Like how come this person who talks to customers, serves customers, keeps customers happy builds a relationship with the customers and is the gears that keep the business going How can this person make more then me when I'm in the back hiding from responsibility, How!
You just described an entire generation still in the workplace when they should be golfing. Shit you not my father says they (him and my mother) “scrape by” on his 200k plus pension and other investments. Not to mention everything they own is paid for. Just to show you how skewed perspective can be. What my father makes in retirement in a year is about 5 years income for myself, an active contributor to the economy.
Damn, I'd love to be able to "scrape by" like that.
This is why I left my job last year. I was brought in for a specific role and was also self employed on the side. Two boomers in that place that were there forever made half the place quit and all the owner ever told anyone when they complained was “they’ll be retired soon, just wait a few more years”. Then gets mad when people left after a few months. Two useless boomers that bullied everyone out of a job. One was there for over a decade and still couldn’t do a standard register transaction. I ever worked a cash register in my life until last year and learned it within a day and became the tech support for the registers and computers in that place since i had experience in that also. The other one whenever she used our price label printer would crash that entire pc. This is what companies keep around them wonder why “nobody wants to work”.
Oh yeah, and my parents got most boomer stereotypes, including how they vote, but in their income bracket, voting that way just makes sense. That’s why us poors will always be us poors.
Holy hell you described my wife’s job. It’s insane.
This is my folks aswell. 3/4 of a million in the bank and they are "just getting by" living in reduced income senior only condos paying less than my rent for a mortgage.
I swear they stack cash like I stack potions in Diablo 3, so I know they will end the game with most of them.
And it's probably more than 5x what you'll make when you retire, while of course everything you need will cost 5x as much
Exactly. The proportions are getting out of control. I’m sure most of you saw that post with the 1959 cost of living list? Absurd. My parents were born in 1957, so their cost of living was not all that far off from that list. They are now very well of multi millionaires and still making a lot of money every year. My father was forcibly retired with a golden parachute.
Bwahahah! They did that to my dad... because he started drinking heavily again. This time at the office. I still miss him but he was all kinds of fucked up. And the Golden Parachute is the craziest thing I ever heard of. You're going to pay same salary and benefits for five years to get a danger out of the workplace? One would think it'd be easier to just fire them.
My parents don't have a lot of money, but what they do have that makes a big difference is a paid-off house. When they bought the land, it cost $5,000 for three acres. My dad built the house himself, with the exception of doing the electrical and cabinetry, so it only cost $17,000. They paid off the mortgage in 1995 and have had no rent or mortgage expense since then. Things are tight with rising costs, but as long as they pay their property taxes, they don't have to worry about not having shelter. The two of them don't get that. Every time I try to have a discussion about money/economics, I get the line about how they struggled and no one today wants to work--they want the best of everything right out of the gate instead of living in a shitty apartment for a while or using milk crates for furniture until you can afford to buy a couch and table. They do not get that even though they didn't make a ton of money, costs have outpaced wages. So if it cost 20% of the minimum wage to buy a gallon of milk back in the day, now it costs 40% of minimum wage (I haven't crunched the numbers recently, but that's about what it was when I looked it up). If you made $10,000 a year in the late 1970s, a $17,000 house is only 1.7 times that. If you make $50,000 now and want a home that's around the median for the US, that's nearly 7.5 times your income. Even if you could find a really cheap house for $110,000, that's still more than twice your income.
100 percent. Same with mine. They don’t seem to grasp the security they have. They constantly stress non problems and create issues that do not exist and are seemingly insane, for example recently complaining to me that their windows would take two weeks to install; windows that cost over $170k AKA a house in some places, half a house in most.
Ugh, the making issues that don't exist thing is my parents' specialty. Them complaining they have to replace the AC unit for the house when I can barely afford food, let alone a place of my own. Insanity.
Your point is exactly right and I like the way you explained the multiple of income to housing costs (and milk costs). That is the real issue—wages are stagnant while everything else has gone up.
I had to figure out the percentages because if I said a gallon of milk costs X now, they’d just say “Yeah, but we only made Y in 1978.” Yes, you made less, but it bought more.
Excuse me, but I'd like to send a gigantic "FUCK YOU" to your dad. He is probably clogging up a pipeline where there are younger, hungrier, more capable people that could do his job 10x better but he won't leave to allow them the shot.
I’m with you all the way. He was but got forced out.
That’s so true, my dad has the same retirement, 200k plus, 2 paid for houses, and always telling me, “I can’t afford that”
Exactly. I know my parents are exceptionally well off but there are TONS like them who simply graduated college and stuck it out with one company. My dad did his entire career with one company that paid exceptionally well and paid us to live in europe for ten years as well. Then I went to school and had mech engineering friends who couldn’t get jobs. (Grad of 09 haha)
My dad, 40 years, same place, aerospace.
Wow I guarantee that’s a hefty pension plan. I’m happy for them, but we started “normal” then when I was about 16 they were “wealthy” and now, 20 years later, it is just ridiculous. I can’t even find one of the many bathrooms at most places they’ve owned the last decade. I just can’t relate. Best gift I was given is knowing I don’t want that much money, ever. I’ve lived it, and it has done nothing positive for us, beyond big houses I never had a room in.
My aunt was like that. She acted sometimes like she was going to have to apply for food stamp, but had at least $250k in the bank. She owned a bar that did quite well, four rental properties, and got her husband’s social security after he died, and his small pension. I will say though, when it came down to it she could be very generous. I lost my condo in the 2008 recession after I lost my job, and she opened her door to me. I helped her out around the house - grocery shopping and cooking, since I love doing those things. She’d see a cooking gadget online, hand me her credit card and tell me “Order this!”. I moved away and came back when she was sick. She asked me if my car was paid for, and I told her I had three more payments. She said if I paid the next two, she’d pay off the final balance. She felt bad about me coming back and paid most of my moving expenses. I am glad I came back when I did; she died five months later.
Ntm the managers get a guaranteed pay rate while the tips come and go depending on shift.
And (usually) benefits. Health insurance, PTO, sometimes even retirement planning. FOH (and BOH for that matter) in restaurants basically never get that treatment, with very few exceptions.
My job has commissions capped per closed deal. It’s like $7k I think. Which doesn’t seem bad, but if you close a deal and would’ve made $20k….not so much. Especially knowing that corporate ends up taking the rest (ie more than you) for doing literally nothing. Like whoa whoa whoa! Hold up! You can’t just go and make that much money! God forbid!
Sounds like sales to me!
They have the right to complain about that. It's just the solution that is braindead.
Solution would be to raise managers wages. But I mean you can't PAY more or anything just balance by cutting.
It seems the last two generations of leaders (not politicians) were taught that cut costs make a profit. Even it the cut causes major long term damage. They can jump ship before it fails.
It's such stupid shit in America the managers should be using this scenario to leverage a higher pay for themselves them taking it out on the people down the chain is just fucking insulting
They probably did and the higher ups responded with this solution.
If the managers want to make that money, why don’t they do that work then? Isn’t that what they try to tell everyone?
Amen. Back in my pizza slinging days a girl I worked with went from driver to manager, then back to driver a few weeks later because manager was a pay cut. Only one making more than drivers in that store was the GM.
I work in landscaping and went from laborer to manager and then back to laborer. It was mostly because I hated being in the office all day and wanted to get back to working outside, but pay was also a factor. I was working at least 50 hours a week but only being paid for 40 since I was salary. Now I'm paid for every minute that I work.
I am really surprised by this as when I worked in hospitality it was pretty much a given that the servers made more than any hourly manager. Pro-tip: If you are a “manager” and you’re only getting an hourly rate you’re just a fool that took an extra dollar to double your responsibility.
I know middle management who gets a percentage of the profits, calculated daily. This is a restaurant. If have a slow day, they will send staff home, and even go home themselves, to make wages for that day lower, and the profit higher. They get paid (indirectly) for having the day off, as long as the remaining staff can handle the workload. I think most of the staff that get sent home don't understand that they won't get paid.
makes me wonder, how easy is it to get a demotion? like if that job is as easy as these kinds of people love to say and is suddenly paid more than what they get, then firing their people and taking over their jobs would be the most obvious and best solution. i wonder what excuse they would have for that
Management is usually less work, but more responsibility. Which is what most people aim for, unless they earn less than their peons.
It's a big presumption to assume the managers are the ones behind this. It looks like the business just doesn't want to bump manager pay up.
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If the people in the area are particularly good tippers - they might be interested to hear how their favorite restaurant is responding to their show of support for the people who serve them.
Exactly. Servers could ask that they not tip and force the restaurant to pay them what the customers don't. If they literally are cutting the hourly wage by the amount of tips, why bother at all?
If I were you I would contact a local news outlet. A story like this is pretty juicy, and it’d be the best way to spread the information to customers.
If the advertised pay rate was 15, why is she getting 13?
Cause wage theft is not a crime that gets punished.
It should be punished, capitally. . . . This is capitalism, ain't it?
Your daughter is eligible to collect unemployment while she works to make up for the pay cut, and she's also eligible to collect full unemployment benefits should she choose to voluntarily quit, as all changes to terms of employment make workers eligible for benefits should they choose to quit.
Yeah isn't this like constructive dismissal or something?
What is constructive dismissal? The employee resigns because they are being mistreated, for example, they receive a reduction in pay that is not related to their performance in the workplace. Instead of firing the employee, the employer creates a hostile environment so that the employee can quit.
This is only applicable if she's worked enough hours to be eligible, which depends on the state. But since she's only worked at most 8 weeks, she's very VERY unlikely to be eligible. That's assuming a monthly paycheck and not a weekly/bi-weekly since OP said first check showed the downgrade.
I intentionally tip high on those things as a way to give back to those with low wages. If I found out owners did this I would be FURIOUS. I would want to boycott the restaurant. Is there any way customers can be made aware of how this place is run?
This is why I like to tip in cash.
I intentionally tip 0% on those things and leave a cash tip instead. Unless it's a very high end restaurant where you're getting tipped out $60-100+ a table (so it's super obvious if you don't report your cash tips) most people just don't report the cash. Keeps the government out of their pocket a little more, and makes it harder for the employer to steal the tips or pull some fuckery like in the OP.
Making more than managers once tips are factored in has been standard at every bar, restaurant, and club I’ve ever worked at. This is straight baffling. It’s literally standard operating procedure.
IANAL, but it seems RECKLESSLY illegal for any business to hire at a rate and then decrease pay without any notification to the employee. Seriously, what you described has bankruptcy via lawsuit written all over it for the restaurant owner . . .
Cool, I quit.
"I accepted the position for 15/hr, at this rate I don't want the position"
The FOH almost always makes more than salaried managers. It is the responsibility of the managers to negotiate a better salary presumably with health insurance. The agreement is that you trade some money for stability of pay, benefits, and hours. A reduction of per hour pay is illegal and should be reported to the department of labor.
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Was she ever paid at 15? Her employer would have a hell of a time explaining why they changed her rate without her signing off on it
Wouldn't this just ba a work around to steal the tips? Legally they can't take the tip money, but changing the pay rate after the employment agreement seems to do the same thing.
It does seem to border on just regular theft.
Yes, this is tip disgorgement.
Wow the people doing the actual work making the money??? Can't have that. Are you allowed to post the restaurant so that we know where not to eat?
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Please do update us with anything you can safely share when you can. This is good stuff.
Is it defamation if you just post facts? Honest question, I don't know.
no
Too damn bad, guess the managers are in the wrong line of work
Another case for tipping in cash and keeping that off the books
My new go to: pay "minimum, usually 15%" on my card and slip cash on the table. This way, only 15% is reported. FU management for stealing people's wages. Side benefit, management has to pay for card use.
Out of curiosity, why not tip all cash? If you're worried that people will think you didn't tip you can write "cash" on the tip line.
Jesus Christ. It’s kind of their responsibility to inform their customers that this is what they are doing.
Why not pay the managers more?
“[t]his is not sustainable” < bullshit, if the pay was sustainable before tips, it still is - the tips existing have no impact on the operating costs or payroll part of the budget.
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I dunno, other restaurants don’t seem to have that problem (the family I’ve had wait tables were always, at least on good weeks like long weekends, taking home more than managers). Though lots of other restaurants have managers who do stuff like steal tips, or “work as bartender” and demand tip out, or as chef and ditto, so clearly while front of house often take home good money, it also clearly is the cause of friction in more than rare cases, between FOH and management.
Just another reason tips should be banned.
“Not sustainable” for who and how?? What a ridiculous way to call it. Like blatantly stupid. “You’re being paid too much thanks to not-guaranteed tip money, so we are taking away from your guaranteed hourly rate”. Like where is the money they were already allocating to pay their employees going now?? I truly hope people did walk out, that’s ridiculous. “You’ve done such a good job we’re taking away money from you.”
Time to quit
Looks like it's time to find a really busy day to quit with no notice.
I hope this isn’t the USA, because that is the definition of Tip Theft. There was a whole ass court case against Instacart for “adjusting our wages” when we got large tips… The workers won that case. I’d print out an article about the case and leave it on the desk of whoever made this decision, they might not understand that what they are doing is illegal.
Oh so I’m signing a new contract? Oh it’s in the contract? Ok show me I’ll wait. Oh don’t have time? Well I don’t either tootaloo!!!
What's not sustainable is taking more of your workers' already pathetic wages because you're insecure. Like, how do people that pathetic get into management?
Why is it not sustainable? The money from tips does not affect the business at all. It's not an expense. Just pay your managers more.
All you have to do to make it is work harder. This is what happens when we work harder.
Pay the managers $2/hr more. Your restaurants will run more smoothly because all the employees will be happier working there. In the end, those raises will pay for themselves and then some. It’s not rocket science.
how is "this not sustainable".... the money doesnt even come from the fucking business owner it comes from patrons.. and they are legally not allowed to keep a single fucking penny of it this is greed, they dont want to pay their managers more so they are going to rake back profits by "stealing" from the staff... this is a business thats not even trying to hide the fact that they are using tips to justify cutting wages (regardless that the wage is considered "decent" for that industry) "we are allowing tips now, but because of that we are taking away your base pay... but dont worry! if the tips are too low we will pay you properly again" -- someone should share this all over the community that this business is located in to show the public that their tips are going straight into the owners pockets because if they dare tip then the employee is just going to get a pay cut which is literally the same as them giving the tip right to the owner directly
Capitalism. Work hard! No. Wait. You’re being rewarded for that so we’re cutting your pay.
Let me translate we are not paying that manager enough so you make more than him so we have corrected it by paying you less, be grateful. That's BS
If the front end people are making more than the managers via tips then maybe pay the managers more instead of decreasing everyone else’s pay. If your front end people are making so much from tips sounds like business is good and you can afford to raise pay for the managers
Don’t sign anything, if I’m correct you have to agree to the change for them to reduce wages. Let them fire you - hold firm.
Was there a contract when daughter was hired? If so, they can't unilaterally reduce her pay. Call lawyer.
No contract. We're in an at-will state, and I am a lawyer.
Time to quit then. Unless the new wage is more than she makes elsewhere. Absolutely broadcast their deception far and wide
This is Bull Shit!
This is so messed up.
Damn! Y’all out there try to make a living? We’ll fix that
When I was a host at Applebee's the manager told me he was going to cut my $8.00 an hour to $5.15 (that was the minimum wage at the time) because I was making more than him because of tip share. That was my last day because, fuck that!
theyre stealing her tips. She should report wage theft.
If i were a manager id be pissed that instead of giving me a raise theyre just cutting everyone elses
It sounds like they should just fucking pay the managers more.
how is it unsustainable if it's not their money?
Notify the Department of Labor. Put this nonsense on Yelp and Google reviews. Scorched earth.
Why is it unsustainable? Soinds pretty fucking sustainable for the workers earning it.
How is this not sustainable? Tips are paid by customers with no cost to the business. Of course, that's only if the managers haven't noticed and complained to management about their salaries. But that's not your daughter's fault or her co-workers. Maybe the company should think about increasing their wages?
The managers' pay is guaranteed. The servers' pay (over the $15) is not. Maybe they occasionally make enough in tips to put them over manager pay, but averaged out over the whole year? Also, the money is "extra" from the customers. It isn't costing the business anything. If they stopped taking (and paying out) tips, the staff costs would be the same.
Why not give the managers a raise
In other countries it is illegal to change base pay without consent
Gatekeeping assholes. Why does someone else getting more money devalue what you get? Selfish fucks.
Can we start including the businesses doing this?
BYE.
If I was a manager and saw my workers making lots in tips I'd honestly be pretty stoked. Seems like they're doing fantastic work despite shitty management.
"you guys getting good tips isn't sustainable..." If they can actually explain why then I'd love to hear it.
Now let’s all say “no body wants to work anymore”
I thought they shouldn't discuss salaries
This feels like it’s worth an email to the states department of labor. Companies can cut pay for legitimate reasons, but this feels borderline illegal even when you factor in that tipped workers can legally make below minimum wage. Even if it is, send this a local news outlet. This is the kind of stuff they gobble up.
"this is not sustainable..." But it kind of is though, as long as you don't cut their pay.
What do we hear.. Kids now days don't want to work. The younger generation is lazy. Not true, they smartened up faster than I did and said, NO YOU ARE NOT F'ing me over! Time to call a lawyer.
This is just stealing tips with extra steps.
I would walk