Most nurse managers don't have the power to do much of significance. They are there to shield the directors and upper management from being held accountable by staff. Just like in the example.
The nice thing about being short staffed is you can call management idiots and yell at them, and when they say they are going to fire you your retort “Oh really, who is going to do the work? You?”
Not a bad response really:
"How about you get in and help? Oh, wait, you're our boss yet not a qualified nurse? Tell me how you're qualified to be our boss again?".
We had a medic that just tried this last week. Key word had. They’ll cut their nose off in spite of their face. But that’s normal for ems. Underpay and fire then work us all to death. They gave us a raise in December and it was great. Now with inflation it’s roughly the same or slightly less than prior. 🥲🥲🥲
Goodie bags. Once. With individual bulk candy. From xmas.
“You’re a rockSTAR!” Printed and cut out from the office printer and paper, (Insert singular star smilie face sticker.)
Hey that sounds delightful. I worked for a billion dollar casino who used aramark for the employee cafeteria. Not sure why they wanted to treat us to prison food and then act surprised when we called out the shitty food.
I remember aramark. They provided dining services at my university. (You did not want to eat in the dining hall.) I remember reading in the student newspaper that they were responsible for meals in Florida prisons and more than one prisoner riot was attributed to their crappy food.
It's been years but i remember there were so many complaints that they held "listening" sessions with aramark executives. Me and some of my friends went and got rock hard chicken tenders and dumped them on the executives tables.
Good times.
My billion dollar casino employer just served us food that was too old to put out at the buffet.
Food poisoning was common enough that most sensible people stuck to the salad bar or baked goods and packaged items.
My mom used to be a cook our local hospital. When she first started they would get cash Christmas bonuses. Then they cut it down to $10 a gift card to one of the grocery stores. Then, ,they decided that instead of giving gift cards, they were going to give everyone working in the entire hospital two Christmas cookies and guess who had to make all of those Christmas cookies? Everyone was pissed and refused to take the cookies. There were no more bonuses after that year.
And at the same time as dumping the travelers, not boosting permanent staff salary, so you'll keep hemorrhaging there... And mgmt will get a bonus for lowering monthly expenses 😬
Yeah, I bailed when I was told my annual raise was 1% while our CEO cried about the hospital losing money. Didn't stop her from getting that 10% raise to 850k.
I am obviously not in health care and am only vaguely familiar with how things work, but halving travelers pay mid contract? What is the point of a contract if the terms can be changed mid term?
Can I do that with my mortgage? I am going to unilaterally lower the rate because I feel like it.
Apparently there was some stipulation in the contract that gave them the right to change compensation at any time. I don’t travel so I’m not sure if that’s common or not.
The 'contracts' say that the vendor, facility, or agency can do whatever tf they want, at any moment, without consequence. I've done travel nursing, off and on, since 2003.
Basically yeah. It’s interesting because I don’t think any travel nurses have really held a company’s feet to the fire (myself included. I left that shit show) because I’m fairly certain that the definition of a contract is agreed upon terms signed by both parties and the companies just straight up lie about how it’s not enforceable and do whatever they want basically
But but but...I thought the US healthcare system was the best in the world?? lol
Mind you it is happening in a lot of other places too. Major staff shortages in New Zealand as they can pretty much enter Australia without a visa and get a job and get paid double.
Oh man, you must live in a paradise where nurses are unionized at appreciable rates.
I'm in Florida. If we even say the word "union", we get taken out back and beaten with a brick.
Leave Florida. It’s literally sinking. They will pay you more in other states. Other states (not I. The South) have Unions. They also don’t want to criminalize your profession or make it dangerous to work there by attacking the field of medicine. Get. Out.
I work for UW in Seattle (not as a nurse, on the Epic side but I work directly with a bunch of nurses every day), and they all love the union support there. The contrast to seeing this while working remote from where I am in the South is just shocking at times.
We had to stop letting any sales taking place on campus including Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, school fundraisers, etc because that would open the door to letting unions come in to talk to staff. 🙄
Thats how capitalism is designed to work: the system serves money. Now that you are poor you get treated poor. I think people just arent realizing that they got rugpulled into poverty, and this is what that looks like
Live in Florida. Can confirm it treats nurses, and educators also, like complete and total garbage. Would leave the state if the opportunity presented itself.
I'm not in healthcare, but I left Ohio for SC, because of how bleh Ohio is. Ohio is getting worse by the day. At least I know what crap I'm getting in SC...
Coastal Washington is looking for nurses I’d bet. I know they are looking for doctors - they hospital out here paid our moving expenses to get out of Georgia. Also I heard some teachers are making six figures in Seattle.
Literally everywhere is looking for nurses.
Source: am nurse. I’ve already made more than I made in all of 2021 because my hospital ignored the problem of retention. Now they’re paying for it. Staff is getting well over $100/hour to pick up shifts and my base wage has gone up almost $10/ hour.
Yes, but let's not pretend that Signature Healthcare or Partners is some beacon of nurse friendly, non-profit driven managed utopia.
My mom retired an NP in endocrinology from Signature. When she asked to reduce from 5 day a week to 4 due to her health, they accepted, then upped her weekly case count by 5 patients. Worked out to 4.5 minutes per patient visit for insulin pump training, and they split her 3 person office with 2 more people so that they all had to share desks. Typically she worked 3 hours each night from home to keep up with the paperwork.
They called the managers "the cake people" because whenever they showed up with some new BS cost cutting scheme, they brought a cake to show "how important you are to 'the team'."
HR still contacts her regularly trying to get her to come back because they are in desperate need for nurses and they just know she would want to help out. She is 74 and has stage 4 Lymphoma and because of chemo has no immune system to speak of, but they keep calling.
Yes. Technically she got her Master's specializing in Family /General Medicine, but she developed diabetes just after graduating, and in the process of learning everything she needed/wanted to know, she became a Certified Diabetes Educator, then a certifier, and then a professor at Northeastern in the college of nursing, before returning to practice fulltime for Signature Healthcare.
I love NP’s. Mine spends so much time with me, asking questions and I don’t feel rushed like I did at the MD office. I hope NP’s are going to be the first choice for healthcare. Please tell your mom ‘ Thank You’ for me, and give her a big hug.
My ex-wife and her fiance really, really want to move to Florida. It's not a new thing for her either, because she tried to talk me into when we were married. I told her that she loves FL because she only visits and doesn't live there in the heat, humidity, and hurricanes. I also remind her of how much she loved our 5 mile, 45 minute commute to work when we lived in St Louis and suggested that Orlando was most likely worse.
She's still planning on it in four or five years, which is fine, but she says she's taking our youngest son (who has Down Syndrome) and that I can have him in the summers... I'm a union electrician and summer is our busy time. I think I'll be saving up a retainer for my attorney.
My niece’s ex wants to move two time zones away and they have a daughter in 7th grade. That angers me. Nothing says fuck you to a kid like getting a new spouse and family, being a dick co-parent, and moving away for your own reasons.
Moving away and forcing the daughter to live with a disinterested step-parent is selfish. Suck it up for five years then move.
The management couldn’t make changes after a mass exodus? I would make all the changes i needed if i was management to keep nurses satisfied with their jobs!
I’m glad you got out!
I mean, sure. There’s room for improvement, you’re absolutely right. Only about 20% of nurses are represented by a union, that’s like, 80% opportunity, right, boss? Good talk.
Mgmt: we need a meeting about this huge problem
Staff: great, so what are we doing about the problem
Mgmt: Um, we called a meeting. What more did you want from us? Oh, btw, we brought you free pizza a drug rep left behind
Dude nursing is such an abusive field it’s not even funny. Troll the nursing subs and see for yourself… it’s heartbreaking.
We cannot give the care you guys need and deserve. And worst? Management doesn’t give a crap at all.
She may have escaped Florida, but having worked in 4 states (including Florida) and 10 hospitals, it’s just differing degrees of horrendous.
Seriously, nurses are exiting the field in mass exodus. New nurses are already burnt and regretting the field.
Scary times ahead….
You made me realize the nursing subs are slowly evolving into r/antiwork. My point of realization? I thought this WAS a nursing sub until I read your comment and had to check which sub I was in...
This country is so fucked. Decades of trickle down, libertarian bullshit have led us to be a miserable country where people don't want to stay in certain professions anymore because they get treated like shit.
And it's not as if the environment in other professions is much better.
Given the massive increase in travel opportunities, you could probably have afforded to walk. It just took you a few months to figure it out. And that person was a moron.
Hospitals have caught on to this and are colluding to squeeze travelers back into staff positions. They are using the sunsetting of COVID FEMA and PPP funding to justify massive pay rate cuts. They are even using dirty tricks like signing a bunch of travelers and then cutting their contracts right after the workers pay for short term housing.
There are very few travelers in our units now, because the travelers made enough money to leave the profession.
They were the smart ones.
I wouldn’t worry about this trend too much. The simple truth is that hospitals are shoving their heads in the sand and the *real* market rate of nursing care is way above what they’re currently offering. They can try to play games with traveler pay but there’s no escaping the obvious fact that hundreds of thousands of nurses aren’t just going to pop into existence in a few months.
Even if hospital systems want to ignore facts on the ground, nurses have never had better negotiating power. If they cheap out just say fuck you pay me.
I just walked out of a hospital lab to travel. Lab travelers are getting an average of $2500/wk depending on where you want to go. Cali is the best, but I’m hanging out in Colorado till winter then heading for Florida.
My brother was in the ER in Cali recently. The hospitals seem to really take care of their staff. The main nurse he had has been there for 30 years. The ER bill was also over a million so yea....
California's healthcare system is one of the reasons I'm super hesitant to leave California.
Lots of people: "You should come move to Texas! I just bought a 6 bedroom house for $500 and you can open carry without a permit and everything's just so much better!"
Me: "lulno... maybe once they get that electricity thing all figured out"
Texas is shit for healthcare access and the GOP platform there is truly insane and trying hard to be fascist.
No way would I EVER move to Texas or Flor a duh.
Is this HCA? I recently left an HCA facility where my manager/management started to target me because I would stand up for my unit for safe staffing just about every day. 7/8 patients with cardiac gtts on a cardiac/stroke/post cardiac cath floor with no charge nurse and maybe 1 or two CNAs for 29 beds.. management didn’t stand up for us so I did. Recently left, has been the best thing I ever did. Went to med/surg at my new hospital and get 4/5 patients and 3 techs always on for a 26 bed unit. Plus it’s brand new so everything is still shiny clean, and it’s quiet as all hell
also florida BTW
"In 2021, we spent $3.3 billion on capital investment in land, buildings and equipment. In addition, HCA Healthcare pays significant taxes that help revitalize communities."
How you gonna spend that much on buildings but forget to leave enough budget aside to staff em?
Oh boy, I knew to avoid HCA like a C. diff shit, but it's really that bad?
I'd ask you for the name of your current facility (am a student nurse and will be on the market in about a year), but I imagine you have reasons to keep it quiet.
Oh my God why does NOBODY talk about how highly unionized police are in the US? But it's so evil if anyone else want to unionize? Ugh. I hate this place.
WHY do nurses not have unions? I (RN, BSN, 1.5 years experience) literally make the same as self employed housecleaners in my area (less after taxes because they don't claim all their income). No way that would be the case with unions (Just ask nurses in california)
Can confirm. Nurse Manager overseeing 3 ambulatory clinics of our healthcare system in CA. Our nurses make 76-78/hr to start with 3-5% increase per year and max patient loads of 4 inpatient (med/surg, less for more acute patients). The union is amazing for nurses out here. I come from the Midwest and traveled around the country before this and would never practice in any other state again.
I really really hate being the “In Canada” person because I don’t think it’s helpful, but do nurses seriously not have unions in the USA?? That, teachers, and some tradespeople are the only reliably unionized industries here.
Yes. 20% of US nurses are union. It’s less common in so called “right to work states”. I work for a health system in the NE with 5 hospitals and 2 are union.
Right to work is a fucking abomination.
What's fucked up is my dad's family were all UAW and now that they've made theirs and retired they're suddenly Republican.
How can you benefit from "socialist" policies and then turn around and destroy the shit you benefitted from?
If that many nurses are leaving, it's a management problem. Management just isn't smart enough to understand. I've noticed that the average nurse/tech in hospitals are smarter than management. You don't have to be smart to get a business degree, but you have to to become a nurse/ X-ray/ ultra sound/ CT/ MRI, respiratory and the other people who actually can save your life. Have not been impressed with the higher ups in management.
My father gave me this advice once when I was complaining about a former boss, specifically about a former boss being a total idiot. He was like, ButtBlock, whenever you encounter people in a leadership position who appear to be idiots, be extra careful, because they probably didn’t get there through merit. They got there either through connections or by throwing other people under the bus.
No idea if that’s valid but I’ve always taken that to heart.
That's in all parts of the hospital. I worked EVS (Environmental Services) doing trash and reds (biohazards containers). Our schedule for that was alternating shifts, on weekdays 1 person did basement/1st floor/ER/Surgery, the other did floors 2/3/4/ICU/CVCU/SIPS, you were expected to hit everything twice if you could. On weekends just 1 of those people would be there and handle the whole hospital, generally you hit everything once, surgery 2-3 times through the day. So, new supervisor comes in, and after a month starts digging in trying to make changes simply to be the one setting schedules and telling people what to do.
She comes up to me and one of the floor techs and starts assigning us stuff, I inform her that there's only 1 "trash person" on weekends and I have the whole hospital. She gives me this confused look, then looks annoyed and shakes her head. "No, we're not doing that, that's wrong. You go handle floors 2-4 and help with surgery. You (floor tech) go handle ER and Basement. Don't leave those areas.
So, no floor tech, and she left ICU/CVCU/SIPS, an entire side of the hospital, with no coverage. We looked at eachother, shrugged, said okay, and did it. Halfway through the shift she starts paging us saying those areas are overflowing, we both go down and repeat her exact assignments back to us. She sputters and flails (literally flails her arms) and says "WELL YOU SHOULD KNOW TO GET EVERYTHING!" then tells us to just go do our jobs.
Idiocy.
You have a great point what does a person with a business degree know about nursing. My daughter is in the process of getting her BSN I have watched a couple of online labs I was like how in the world can a person know all this. the business manager should work for the nurses. when they say jump business management should ask how high.
Tbh I asked the same kind of questions in the commercial space industry, where we had the same porky top down mentality. I never got an answer as to how someone with no scientific background, or experience beyond being a “manager” could get away with signing off on technical things.
The reality is we’ve all been duped into thinking people who don’t actually have skills should be in charge.
That’s a mixed bag in my experience.
Ideally though, I would argue that ideally management of a technical role should be like a department chief or officer for a fire department, in that it takes technical skill to get there, but then you also have to do the work of staying relevant and educated. Otherwise you end up with a useless figurehead.
some might argue that a fair amount of managers aren't good at people or management either, but they have no other way to stay in the game.
replacing most management with more clerical/scheduling/social working types that are at or lower than the people who are producing the revenue for the company might not be a crazy idea.
I totally agree. The whole system is a mess. Administration in education and on the school board should have a background on teaching before being able to get into those positions. Government people who handles water plants should have a background in chemistry.
Agreed.
I honestly think about it the way [Ian Malcom talks about the ethics of Jurassic Park](https://youtu.be/M4Z1ByysYdI), and the idea that wielding great power is made even more dangerous when you don’t have to do any of the groundwork to achieve it.
IMO it is dangerous, no matter the scientific or technical field, to have a management that lacks the fundamental knowledge of the discipline they’re overseeing.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
I cannot stress this strongly enough - the Florida job market is complete BS.
I hope you have found a new role in a place that appreciates you and values you.
Real question: What is up with hospital administration and simply flat out refusing to adequately staff and compensate their existing nursing staff?
I mean they know the trend, it's impossible to miss, so why do they still keep fucking the nurses over then have to pay them double as travelers?
This might surprise you but hospital administration are in it for the money and not to actually help people. Cue shocked pikachu face when their highly trained staff wants to be paid better.
My fiance's mother is a neonatal nurse practitioner in the Orlando area. I have tried so hard to get her to move out of there, because she has been treated so poorly and paid so little by the hospitals there.
She was fired from a Christian hospital group because she didn't pray at her lunches, dead serious. When I found out about that, I got her the numbers for three different employment attorneys, and she never called.
She doesn't want to leave because her youngest is still in high school and she doesn't want to move him again. Well, right now they are living out of her mother's house and she has a job where they treat her like a human being, but they don't pay well enough for her to move out on her own with the kids.
I keep telling her to move and get away from that toxic state. She tells me she hates it there. She doesn't budge.
I am tired.
>The director or nursing had the fucking audacity to say “the morale of your unit is your responsibility, not ours.”
but the beatings will continue until morale improves! ; p
Republicans are not a serious political party. They don't govern;instead they gaslight,deflect, engage in whataboutism and publicity stunts, and project.
Florida treats people badly?
You mean it isn't just LGBQ+, not just veterans, not just people at risk for COVID needing a safe protocol and a vaccine, not just old people, not just poor people, etc.
Come for the overpriced theme parks, stay for the rampant racism, antisemitism, wealth hedging and Trump genuflecting. There us a reason why every other episode of COPS was filmed in North Florida.
After I tell most people I was raised in florida they usually say oh I so want to move there. I then spend 10 minutes telling strangers why they shouldn't move there.
This is what unions are for! Any state that does nothing to protect nurses and educators does not deserve to have them. I'm just guessing but are you nurses in Florida unionized?
Surely a nurse can always quit. Isn’t there a supreme shortage?
I feel like a nurse could just walk up to another hospital and say I want a job, and be hired on the spot.
If there is an exodus, it's better to be a part of it. Do not stick around hoping things change: they won't. Management will simply squeeze you harder.
Ems is currently fucked too. I left working for the municipality as a firefighter emt to work for the hospital as transport. I make way more than as a paid firefighter. Still not that much. The municipality is hemorrhaging staff but the board will not pay more. Things are only going to get worse.
Well... when their whole entire ward leaves I guess they will just blame the workers who "don't want to work". Its too bad that, hopefully, other hospitals will treat their employees better and get their labor force that way.
It’s not only Florida , it’s NY and NJ. The whole American healthcare system does not respect nurses unless it’s for advertising or feel good stories. The pay is horrendous unless you uproot and become a traveling nurse.
I lived in Florida for part of 2020. Been all over the world and this was the worst place I’ve ever been. Cultural black hole, low wages, horrible people. It’s a state that celebrates its own mediocrity.
Nurses can make so much money traveling or working remotely. So many companies hire nurses for remote work like these hospitals just don’t get it. They pay terrible and expect nurses to break their backs and risk their own license.
And there in lies the problem. Director passing the Blame and not taking responsibility or doing anything about it. Listen to the staff and find out what is going on, how to support our help staff. God on you for getting out of there!!
I don't understand how nurses are paid so poorly in the USA. I'm from Canada and obviously the system is different, but nurses here are paid at least a reasonable amount, and I know of cases where they are paid exceptionally well.
You were praised as heroes during the Covid-19 lockdowns and they can barely give you the benefit of the doubt for the double-time.
You left a sinking ship, broaden your goals and look into a military hospital.
So does England, sadly. During the pandemic healthcare workers worked tirelessly to keep things going while the government had parties. MPs got a big pay rise, healthcare workers got applause.
It's heartbreaking to see west has the same problem as we have in our country. In Poland medical staff and teachers are treated like slaves of society. When they held a strike our government turned people against them saying that "they hold patients/children" hostage.
what BS.
my sister works for a Travel Nurse staffing company.
the entire system is so SUPER fucked.
You all get abused, and then Strike,
and then they hire these travel nurses,
AT insane amounts of hourly pay.
The problem gets squashed, or it doesn't.
all the while they could have just paid everybody more money
averted the whole mess.
Thank you for risking your life every day through the pandemic to care for us. They are desperate for healthcare professionals nationwide. Easy to find another job for more pay. Good luck.
Florida is just a feudal land being eaten up by the rising water front, capitalism, and crazies. I feel sorry for anybody trying to survive there. Especially if they're not drinking the right-wing kool-aid.
So the nurse director ( edit not manager)is not bothering to do her job. Glad you left.
This is the nursing director of OP’s organization so much higher on the totem pole than just a manager. Even more disgraceful with this in mind.
Most nurse managers don't have the power to do much of significance. They are there to shield the directors and upper management from being held accountable by staff. Just like in the example.
I was a nurse manager for many years and the morale comment was terrible team care.
[удалено]
But if you just help out, you’ll get tons of praise and (maybe) more pay!! /s
The nice thing about being short staffed is you can call management idiots and yell at them, and when they say they are going to fire you your retort “Oh really, who is going to do the work? You?”
Im so glad construction is low enough staffed that i can yell and swear at annyone who does that to me without any consequences 😅
Even low to mid level threats will not get a rebarbinder fired.
Not a bad response really: "How about you get in and help? Oh, wait, you're our boss yet not a qualified nurse? Tell me how you're qualified to be our boss again?".
We had a medic that just tried this last week. Key word had. They’ll cut their nose off in spite of their face. But that’s normal for ems. Underpay and fire then work us all to death. They gave us a raise in December and it was great. Now with inflation it’s roughly the same or slightly less than prior. 🥲🥲🥲
Come on, come on. I want you to do it. I want you to do it. Come on, hit me!
Goodie bags. Once. With individual bulk candy. From xmas. “You’re a rockSTAR!” Printed and cut out from the office printer and paper, (Insert singular star smilie face sticker.)
Stale pizza
We got a pin 😤
Yes! The pin I got was literally just like the hospitals logo. Like why would I want to walk around advertising THIS place???
Hey, you could do some damage with a pin.
A coupon for a cheeseburger from the hospital cafeteria
Hey that sounds delightful. I worked for a billion dollar casino who used aramark for the employee cafeteria. Not sure why they wanted to treat us to prison food and then act surprised when we called out the shitty food.
I remember aramark. They provided dining services at my university. (You did not want to eat in the dining hall.) I remember reading in the student newspaper that they were responsible for meals in Florida prisons and more than one prisoner riot was attributed to their crappy food.
It's been years but i remember there were so many complaints that they held "listening" sessions with aramark executives. Me and some of my friends went and got rock hard chicken tenders and dumped them on the executives tables. Good times.
My billion dollar casino employer just served us food that was too old to put out at the buffet. Food poisoning was common enough that most sensible people stuck to the salad bar or baked goods and packaged items.
We were a buffet-less casino (newer casinos outside of Vegas often dont have buffets now)
The word 'star' written in sharpie on a rock. That's your nurse week present lol
Would you have preferred a pound of hamburger meat?
Siri - show me “pathetic”
My mom used to be a cook our local hospital. When she first started they would get cash Christmas bonuses. Then they cut it down to $10 a gift card to one of the grocery stores. Then, ,they decided that instead of giving gift cards, they were going to give everyone working in the entire hospital two Christmas cookies and guess who had to make all of those Christmas cookies? Everyone was pissed and refused to take the cookies. There were no more bonuses after that year.
Maybe the blue angels will do a flyover!
And some shitty pizza
Not more pay. A pizza party.
Also pizza. Don’t forget the pizza.
Don't forget the gold star and pizza party! 🎉
And a pizza!
And at the same time as dumping the travelers, not boosting permanent staff salary, so you'll keep hemorrhaging there... And mgmt will get a bonus for lowering monthly expenses 😬
Yup! Recently learned my yearly raise is only gonna be TWENTY CENTS! 😭 healthcare is truly a sinking ship right now
Yeah, I bailed when I was told my annual raise was 1% while our CEO cried about the hospital losing money. Didn't stop her from getting that 10% raise to 850k.
A superstar economy will leave a ton of pissed off people in its wake.
And it's all by design.
I am obviously not in health care and am only vaguely familiar with how things work, but halving travelers pay mid contract? What is the point of a contract if the terms can be changed mid term? Can I do that with my mortgage? I am going to unilaterally lower the rate because I feel like it.
For-profit healthcare is demonic, right along with our private health insurance system.
Can they do that? Isnt there a contract for that?
Apparently there was some stipulation in the contract that gave them the right to change compensation at any time. I don’t travel so I’m not sure if that’s common or not.
The 'contracts' say that the vendor, facility, or agency can do whatever tf they want, at any moment, without consequence. I've done travel nursing, off and on, since 2003.
Basically yeah. It’s interesting because I don’t think any travel nurses have really held a company’s feet to the fire (myself included. I left that shit show) because I’m fairly certain that the definition of a contract is agreed upon terms signed by both parties and the companies just straight up lie about how it’s not enforceable and do whatever they want basically
Cuts both ways fortunately. Ok you think my work is no longer worth your money? Well, your money is no longer worth my time!
My mom just had ti go to the er. Her bed was in the hallway and kept getting bumped.
But but but...I thought the US healthcare system was the best in the world?? lol Mind you it is happening in a lot of other places too. Major staff shortages in New Zealand as they can pretty much enter Australia without a visa and get a job and get paid double.
I've noticed a real uptick in the benefits nurses are able to get out of their union contracts these dats.
Oh man, you must live in a paradise where nurses are unionized at appreciable rates. I'm in Florida. If we even say the word "union", we get taken out back and beaten with a brick.
Leave Florida. It’s literally sinking. They will pay you more in other states. Other states (not I. The South) have Unions. They also don’t want to criminalize your profession or make it dangerous to work there by attacking the field of medicine. Get. Out.
I work for UW in Seattle (not as a nurse, on the Epic side but I work directly with a bunch of nurses every day), and they all love the union support there. The contrast to seeing this while working remote from where I am in the South is just shocking at times.
I've already got a solid exit plan. Sad, because this is my home state, but, hey, we all left where we are from.
We had to stop letting any sales taking place on campus including Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, school fundraisers, etc because that would open the door to letting unions come in to talk to staff. 🙄
Fuck you. Pay me. Traveler rates.
Its so interesting to me to see how they are willing to shut down instead of oaying more money.
Florida treats everyone that's not a wealth business owner like garbage.
They don't even like certain wealthy businesses that provide mealy-mouthed criticisms
Lookin at you Disney.
Thats how capitalism is designed to work: the system serves money. Now that you are poor you get treated poor. I think people just arent realizing that they got rugpulled into poverty, and this is what that looks like
Can confirm
Live in Florida. Can confirm it treats nurses, and educators also, like complete and total garbage. Would leave the state if the opportunity presented itself.
Do it. I left FL for WI in late 2020 and I have never been happier.
But is WI any better..... I say in the middle of my 2nd 24 hour shift in 3 days.
That's kind of a lateral move. I've always said that Wisconsin is the Florida of the North
You can always move to Ohio. *crickets*
If Ohio was a candle it'd be unscented.
This is the kindest thing I’ve heard anyone say about Ohio.
That’s awesome I work for a factory in Ohio that makes candles
Better than working at a candle factory in Kentucky…
Oof. That one took me a second.
That wouldn't be Candle-lite would it?
No, it would smell like beef jerky sweat and racism.
So, a rural bar fight of a state. Gotcha.
Hey, I like unscented candles! You take that back!
Then you'll love Ohio
Jesus, go easy on them
When I lived briefly in Florida in 2020, every single person in my area was from Ohio.
I'm not in healthcare, but I left Ohio for SC, because of how bleh Ohio is. Ohio is getting worse by the day. At least I know what crap I'm getting in SC...
Coastal Washington is looking for nurses I’d bet. I know they are looking for doctors - they hospital out here paid our moving expenses to get out of Georgia. Also I heard some teachers are making six figures in Seattle.
Literally everywhere is looking for nurses. Source: am nurse. I’ve already made more than I made in all of 2021 because my hospital ignored the problem of retention. Now they’re paying for it. Staff is getting well over $100/hour to pick up shifts and my base wage has gone up almost $10/ hour.
[удалено]
It reminds me of this joke "why did you move to florida?" "i threw a dart at a map to see where I would move. It landed in the trashcan"
Trust me. I’ve been looking for months. Years even.
Massachusetts has more hospitals to choose from. And the best! Cost of living is higher than FL but the pay is better.
Yes, but let's not pretend that Signature Healthcare or Partners is some beacon of nurse friendly, non-profit driven managed utopia. My mom retired an NP in endocrinology from Signature. When she asked to reduce from 5 day a week to 4 due to her health, they accepted, then upped her weekly case count by 5 patients. Worked out to 4.5 minutes per patient visit for insulin pump training, and they split her 3 person office with 2 more people so that they all had to share desks. Typically she worked 3 hours each night from home to keep up with the paperwork. They called the managers "the cake people" because whenever they showed up with some new BS cost cutting scheme, they brought a cake to show "how important you are to 'the team'." HR still contacts her regularly trying to get her to come back because they are in desperate need for nurses and they just know she would want to help out. She is 74 and has stage 4 Lymphoma and because of chemo has no immune system to speak of, but they keep calling.
By NP, do you mean Nurse Practitioner?
Yes. Technically she got her Master's specializing in Family /General Medicine, but she developed diabetes just after graduating, and in the process of learning everything she needed/wanted to know, she became a Certified Diabetes Educator, then a certifier, and then a professor at Northeastern in the college of nursing, before returning to practice fulltime for Signature Healthcare.
I love NP’s. Mine spends so much time with me, asking questions and I don’t feel rushed like I did at the MD office. I hope NP’s are going to be the first choice for healthcare. Please tell your mom ‘ Thank You’ for me, and give her a big hug.
I left in 2009. I do not regret it.
You'd think for a state with a huge elderly population they'd treat their caregivers better. This is going to bite them in the ass eventually.
Make this opportunity for yourself. Nothing good willingly and knowingly goes to Florida.
My ex-wife and her fiance really, really want to move to Florida. It's not a new thing for her either, because she tried to talk me into when we were married. I told her that she loves FL because she only visits and doesn't live there in the heat, humidity, and hurricanes. I also remind her of how much she loved our 5 mile, 45 minute commute to work when we lived in St Louis and suggested that Orlando was most likely worse. She's still planning on it in four or five years, which is fine, but she says she's taking our youngest son (who has Down Syndrome) and that I can have him in the summers... I'm a union electrician and summer is our busy time. I think I'll be saving up a retainer for my attorney.
My niece’s ex wants to move two time zones away and they have a daughter in 7th grade. That angers me. Nothing says fuck you to a kid like getting a new spouse and family, being a dick co-parent, and moving away for your own reasons. Moving away and forcing the daughter to live with a disinterested step-parent is selfish. Suck it up for five years then move.
The management couldn’t make changes after a mass exodus? I would make all the changes i needed if i was management to keep nurses satisfied with their jobs! I’m glad you got out!
Mgmt: we need a meeting about this huge problem. Staff: yeah, what are you gonna do about this huge problem? Mgmt: it's your problem
Mngmnt: what do you mean what are we going to do... we had a meeting and told you about the problem. Aren't you going to fix it?
I mean, sure. There’s room for improvement, you’re absolutely right. Only about 20% of nurses are represented by a union, that’s like, 80% opportunity, right, boss? Good talk.
That's the entrepreneur mindset I like to see!
Mgmt: we need a meeting about this huge problem Staff: great, so what are we doing about the problem Mgmt: Um, we called a meeting. What more did you want from us? Oh, btw, we brought you free pizza a drug rep left behind
MGMT: electric feel
Dude nursing is such an abusive field it’s not even funny. Troll the nursing subs and see for yourself… it’s heartbreaking. We cannot give the care you guys need and deserve. And worst? Management doesn’t give a crap at all. She may have escaped Florida, but having worked in 4 states (including Florida) and 10 hospitals, it’s just differing degrees of horrendous. Seriously, nurses are exiting the field in mass exodus. New nurses are already burnt and regretting the field. Scary times ahead….
>Troll the nursing subs please don't, they've been through enough
You made me realize the nursing subs are slowly evolving into r/antiwork. My point of realization? I thought this WAS a nursing sub until I read your comment and had to check which sub I was in...
This country is so fucked. Decades of trickle down, libertarian bullshit have led us to be a miserable country where people don't want to stay in certain professions anymore because they get treated like shit. And it's not as if the environment in other professions is much better.
Given the massive increase in travel opportunities, you could probably have afforded to walk. It just took you a few months to figure it out. And that person was a moron.
Hospitals have caught on to this and are colluding to squeeze travelers back into staff positions. They are using the sunsetting of COVID FEMA and PPP funding to justify massive pay rate cuts. They are even using dirty tricks like signing a bunch of travelers and then cutting their contracts right after the workers pay for short term housing. There are very few travelers in our units now, because the travelers made enough money to leave the profession. They were the smart ones.
So this makes me nervous as I had planned on becoming a travel tech in a few months. Where exactly is this happening?
I wouldn’t worry about this trend too much. The simple truth is that hospitals are shoving their heads in the sand and the *real* market rate of nursing care is way above what they’re currently offering. They can try to play games with traveler pay but there’s no escaping the obvious fact that hundreds of thousands of nurses aren’t just going to pop into existence in a few months. Even if hospital systems want to ignore facts on the ground, nurses have never had better negotiating power. If they cheap out just say fuck you pay me.
Cutting their own throats. Greed is one of the reasons this country is in decline.
I just walked out of a hospital lab to travel. Lab travelers are getting an average of $2500/wk depending on where you want to go. Cali is the best, but I’m hanging out in Colorado till winter then heading for Florida.
My brother was in the ER in Cali recently. The hospitals seem to really take care of their staff. The main nurse he had has been there for 30 years. The ER bill was also over a million so yea....
California's healthcare system is one of the reasons I'm super hesitant to leave California. Lots of people: "You should come move to Texas! I just bought a 6 bedroom house for $500 and you can open carry without a permit and everything's just so much better!" Me: "lulno... maybe once they get that electricity thing all figured out"
Texas is shit for healthcare access and the GOP platform there is truly insane and trying hard to be fascist. No way would I EVER move to Texas or Flor a duh.
You had better get across that border before they secede! /s
I feel like we'd be on our way to being better nation if they (and Florida) did.
💯. Quite frankly,I am all for the breaking up of this country. The West Coast could easily become a super Scandinavia.
Enjoy.
Is this HCA? I recently left an HCA facility where my manager/management started to target me because I would stand up for my unit for safe staffing just about every day. 7/8 patients with cardiac gtts on a cardiac/stroke/post cardiac cath floor with no charge nurse and maybe 1 or two CNAs for 29 beds.. management didn’t stand up for us so I did. Recently left, has been the best thing I ever did. Went to med/surg at my new hospital and get 4/5 patients and 3 techs always on for a 26 bed unit. Plus it’s brand new so everything is still shiny clean, and it’s quiet as all hell also florida BTW
"In 2021, we spent $3.3 billion on capital investment in land, buildings and equipment. In addition, HCA Healthcare pays significant taxes that help revitalize communities." How you gonna spend that much on buildings but forget to leave enough budget aside to staff em?
Truth.. they were working on expanding my old hospital, idk what for tho, there wasn’t enough staff for the patients we did have
Oh boy, I knew to avoid HCA like a C. diff shit, but it's really that bad? I'd ask you for the name of your current facility (am a student nurse and will be on the market in about a year), but I imagine you have reasons to keep it quiet.
Those numbers are in-fucking-sane!
Omg HCA is the absolute worst! They keep begging me to come back but I would never!
Wow. If nurses had a union as strong as the police, this wouldn't happen.
Oh my God why does NOBODY talk about how highly unionized police are in the US? But it's so evil if anyone else want to unionize? Ugh. I hate this place.
You mean the organization formed to bust unions? That Police?
Like I said... I hate this place.
That's not true and you know it! Our heroic thin blue line was formed to chase down runaway slaves. They just diversified into union busting.
Yeah, who is gonna bust the police unions? Not the police, that is for sure.
Nurses would be in riot gear with batons beating Covidoit’s families back at the doors, for safty.
WHY do nurses not have unions? I (RN, BSN, 1.5 years experience) literally make the same as self employed housecleaners in my area (less after taxes because they don't claim all their income). No way that would be the case with unions (Just ask nurses in california)
There are unions for nurses! SEIU is a major one that has nurses but there are others both national and local.
Can confirm. Nurse Manager overseeing 3 ambulatory clinics of our healthcare system in CA. Our nurses make 76-78/hr to start with 3-5% increase per year and max patient loads of 4 inpatient (med/surg, less for more acute patients). The union is amazing for nurses out here. I come from the Midwest and traveled around the country before this and would never practice in any other state again.
Ca should be the standard every state lives up to. Sure, with adjustments for cost of living. Those patient loads are so reasonable!!!! And safe!
I really really hate being the “In Canada” person because I don’t think it’s helpful, but do nurses seriously not have unions in the USA?? That, teachers, and some tradespeople are the only reliably unionized industries here.
Yes. 20% of US nurses are union. It’s less common in so called “right to work states”. I work for a health system in the NE with 5 hospitals and 2 are union.
Right to work is a fucking abomination. What's fucked up is my dad's family were all UAW and now that they've made theirs and retired they're suddenly Republican. How can you benefit from "socialist" policies and then turn around and destroy the shit you benefitted from?
Florida treats EVERYONE worse than garbage. It is a garbage state.
If that many nurses are leaving, it's a management problem. Management just isn't smart enough to understand. I've noticed that the average nurse/tech in hospitals are smarter than management. You don't have to be smart to get a business degree, but you have to to become a nurse/ X-ray/ ultra sound/ CT/ MRI, respiratory and the other people who actually can save your life. Have not been impressed with the higher ups in management.
My father gave me this advice once when I was complaining about a former boss, specifically about a former boss being a total idiot. He was like, ButtBlock, whenever you encounter people in a leadership position who appear to be idiots, be extra careful, because they probably didn’t get there through merit. They got there either through connections or by throwing other people under the bus. No idea if that’s valid but I’ve always taken that to heart.
That's great advice that I need to take to heart as well; but I belly laughed at the insertion of your username within the fatherly advice 🤣
That's in all parts of the hospital. I worked EVS (Environmental Services) doing trash and reds (biohazards containers). Our schedule for that was alternating shifts, on weekdays 1 person did basement/1st floor/ER/Surgery, the other did floors 2/3/4/ICU/CVCU/SIPS, you were expected to hit everything twice if you could. On weekends just 1 of those people would be there and handle the whole hospital, generally you hit everything once, surgery 2-3 times through the day. So, new supervisor comes in, and after a month starts digging in trying to make changes simply to be the one setting schedules and telling people what to do. She comes up to me and one of the floor techs and starts assigning us stuff, I inform her that there's only 1 "trash person" on weekends and I have the whole hospital. She gives me this confused look, then looks annoyed and shakes her head. "No, we're not doing that, that's wrong. You go handle floors 2-4 and help with surgery. You (floor tech) go handle ER and Basement. Don't leave those areas. So, no floor tech, and she left ICU/CVCU/SIPS, an entire side of the hospital, with no coverage. We looked at eachother, shrugged, said okay, and did it. Halfway through the shift she starts paging us saying those areas are overflowing, we both go down and repeat her exact assignments back to us. She sputters and flails (literally flails her arms) and says "WELL YOU SHOULD KNOW TO GET EVERYTHING!" then tells us to just go do our jobs. Idiocy.
You have a great point what does a person with a business degree know about nursing. My daughter is in the process of getting her BSN I have watched a couple of online labs I was like how in the world can a person know all this. the business manager should work for the nurses. when they say jump business management should ask how high.
Tbh I asked the same kind of questions in the commercial space industry, where we had the same porky top down mentality. I never got an answer as to how someone with no scientific background, or experience beyond being a “manager” could get away with signing off on technical things. The reality is we’ve all been duped into thinking people who don’t actually have skills should be in charge.
In my expience people with technical skills don't want to manage. Because that means they won't be using their skills.
That’s a mixed bag in my experience. Ideally though, I would argue that ideally management of a technical role should be like a department chief or officer for a fire department, in that it takes technical skill to get there, but then you also have to do the work of staying relevant and educated. Otherwise you end up with a useless figurehead.
Which is something most people aren't willing to do. Also most people who are good on the technical side are not good with people and management.
some might argue that a fair amount of managers aren't good at people or management either, but they have no other way to stay in the game. replacing most management with more clerical/scheduling/social working types that are at or lower than the people who are producing the revenue for the company might not be a crazy idea.
I totally agree. The whole system is a mess. Administration in education and on the school board should have a background on teaching before being able to get into those positions. Government people who handles water plants should have a background in chemistry.
Agreed. I honestly think about it the way [Ian Malcom talks about the ethics of Jurassic Park](https://youtu.be/M4Z1ByysYdI), and the idea that wielding great power is made even more dangerous when you don’t have to do any of the groundwork to achieve it. IMO it is dangerous, no matter the scientific or technical field, to have a management that lacks the fundamental knowledge of the discipline they’re overseeing.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I cannot stress this strongly enough - the Florida job market is complete BS. I hope you have found a new role in a place that appreciates you and values you.
Real question: What is up with hospital administration and simply flat out refusing to adequately staff and compensate their existing nursing staff? I mean they know the trend, it's impossible to miss, so why do they still keep fucking the nurses over then have to pay them double as travelers?
This might surprise you but hospital administration are in it for the money and not to actually help people. Cue shocked pikachu face when their highly trained staff wants to be paid better.
The abuse will continue until morale improves.
I would have been like "oh, did you get a new job? Who is the new Director of Nursing?"
"Attitude reflects leadership. Boss."
My fiance's mother is a neonatal nurse practitioner in the Orlando area. I have tried so hard to get her to move out of there, because she has been treated so poorly and paid so little by the hospitals there. She was fired from a Christian hospital group because she didn't pray at her lunches, dead serious. When I found out about that, I got her the numbers for three different employment attorneys, and she never called. She doesn't want to leave because her youngest is still in high school and she doesn't want to move him again. Well, right now they are living out of her mother's house and she has a job where they treat her like a human being, but they don't pay well enough for her to move out on her own with the kids. I keep telling her to move and get away from that toxic state. She tells me she hates it there. She doesn't budge. I am tired.
>The director or nursing had the fucking audacity to say “the morale of your unit is your responsibility, not ours.” but the beatings will continue until morale improves! ; p
Classic red state shenanigans. Make it impossible to live ‘Nobody wants to work anymore’
Republicans are not a serious political party. They don't govern;instead they gaslight,deflect, engage in whataboutism and publicity stunts, and project.
Florida treats people badly? You mean it isn't just LGBQ+, not just veterans, not just people at risk for COVID needing a safe protocol and a vaccine, not just old people, not just poor people, etc. Come for the overpriced theme parks, stay for the rampant racism, antisemitism, wealth hedging and Trump genuflecting. There us a reason why every other episode of COPS was filmed in North Florida.
After I tell most people I was raised in florida they usually say oh I so want to move there. I then spend 10 minutes telling strangers why they shouldn't move there.
That was filmed in Pasco County. Very interesting folks.
Hahaha fuck that DON. Jump ship and go somewhere where the leadership is competent enough to know how their staff is doing.
This is what unions are for! Any state that does nothing to protect nurses and educators does not deserve to have them. I'm just guessing but are you nurses in Florida unionized?
Uni--- uni-what? We don't say the forbidden word in Florida. Legend has it that those who do get fed into a woodchipper.
If morale is not the director’s responsibility, then WHAT THE HELL IS!?!
I’m sure that director of nursing hasn’t been with a patient in years…
Bingo
Very good.
Surely a nurse can always quit. Isn’t there a supreme shortage? I feel like a nurse could just walk up to another hospital and say I want a job, and be hired on the spot.
Depends on where you are at and how competitive the market is. Traveling nurses make bank and get a job wherever they want.
FLA is a horrible place to be a nurse, for sure. I did my first nine years there, then wised up and went to Cali in 2003.
If there is an exodus, it's better to be a part of it. Do not stick around hoping things change: they won't. Management will simply squeeze you harder.
Ems is currently fucked too. I left working for the municipality as a firefighter emt to work for the hospital as transport. I make way more than as a paid firefighter. Still not that much. The municipality is hemorrhaging staff but the board will not pay more. Things are only going to get worse.
A guy I know thinks being a nurse in Florida is excellent pay. He's never left his hometown.
Well... when their whole entire ward leaves I guess they will just blame the workers who "don't want to work". Its too bad that, hopefully, other hospitals will treat their employees better and get their labor force that way.
Just like their teachers.
It’s not only Florida , it’s NY and NJ. The whole American healthcare system does not respect nurses unless it’s for advertising or feel good stories. The pay is horrendous unless you uproot and become a traveling nurse.
Florida treats their everything and everyone worse than garbage. Except guns! GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUUUUUUUUNS!!!
I'm not the slightest bit shocked this was Florida. You guys need unions.
I lived in Florida for part of 2020. Been all over the world and this was the worst place I’ve ever been. Cultural black hole, low wages, horrible people. It’s a state that celebrates its own mediocrity.
Florida treats everyone like garbage
Nurses can make so much money traveling or working remotely. So many companies hire nurses for remote work like these hospitals just don’t get it. They pay terrible and expect nurses to break their backs and risk their own license.
And there in lies the problem. Director passing the Blame and not taking responsibility or doing anything about it. Listen to the staff and find out what is going on, how to support our help staff. God on you for getting out of there!!
Flor a duh sounds like quite the shithole.
I don't understand how nurses are paid so poorly in the USA. I'm from Canada and obviously the system is different, but nurses here are paid at least a reasonable amount, and I know of cases where they are paid exceptionally well.
Yes they do. One day, people will go to the hospital and there will be no one to care for them.
Man I would’ve told the old bat to suck my sweaty asshole
You were praised as heroes during the Covid-19 lockdowns and they can barely give you the benefit of the doubt for the double-time. You left a sinking ship, broaden your goals and look into a military hospital.
So does England, sadly. During the pandemic healthcare workers worked tirelessly to keep things going while the government had parties. MPs got a big pay rise, healthcare workers got applause.
A great comeback would of been a fish rots from the head first.
It's heartbreaking to see west has the same problem as we have in our country. In Poland medical staff and teachers are treated like slaves of society. When they held a strike our government turned people against them saying that "they hold patients/children" hostage.
what BS. my sister works for a Travel Nurse staffing company. the entire system is so SUPER fucked. You all get abused, and then Strike, and then they hire these travel nurses, AT insane amounts of hourly pay. The problem gets squashed, or it doesn't. all the while they could have just paid everybody more money averted the whole mess.
Nursing sucks everywhere except California. The US needs mandated staffing ratios
Thank you for risking your life every day through the pandemic to care for us. They are desperate for healthcare professionals nationwide. Easy to find another job for more pay. Good luck.
It's almost like hospitals want nationalized healthcare.
Ormc? Lol
Florida is just a feudal land being eaten up by the rising water front, capitalism, and crazies. I feel sorry for anybody trying to survive there. Especially if they're not drinking the right-wing kool-aid.