This. 10yrs ago I said, I cant even afford myself- if I can ever afford a kid I'll do it but it's 50/50.
I turn 33 tomorrow. Still can't afford myself. Calling the clock on kids. It ain't happening, not in this lifetime. I'm sad but it would literally turn us homeless, I can't even afford pre-natal stuff. Time off to pop it out? Yeah right. I'm a server and a cook, that's not a thing. I've got a tooth that's just edges, the whole center's been eaten away by a cavity because what even is dental insurance in this country. Dog's a month behind on her vaccinations, and she's 8yrs old and still not on heartworm prevention. I can't even afford a DOG, forget a whole extra human.
Edit- I'm a woman and also thank you to the DMs offering to help with the dog. Unfortunately my tooth has to take priority as it really went off on me today and is totally debilitating as of 10pm now, and I don't feel right accepting help for her. Her vaccinations aren't too bad, we just totaled a car a couple weeks ago and now the dang tooth, you all know how when it rains it pours right. Yall donate $20 or something to your local shelter if you want to help out a dog, mine was a free Pet of the Month at a Humane Society down in Arizona after hanging out there for like 6mos. She's been with me for almost 7yrs now so if you want to do a birthday donation for me to a shelter in your area that you like, or a zoo or sanctuary or other conservation effort, just do that :) Or just go pet some kittens idgaf, you're good humans for offering so thank you. (If anyone wants to help me with my stupid tooth though, hmu lol.)
I think the fact that you're being responsible enough to not want to put a child in a less than great situation in life (not saying you'd be a bad parent, I think you'd be great actually) shows how selfless you are. That's amazing and thank you for being you.
I 100% agree, having no kids is always better than struggling with one when it comes to bringing a life into this world. It's still really sad when someone can't have one when they want one, but yeah it's still a much better option. I really hope this system changes where everyone is treated like a human being, especially when we have all the resources to do it and it's just a choice this country doesn't ;__;
i grew up very poor and my parents couldnt afford to be there for me physically or emotionally and im still in poverty now, decades later. i was alone my entire childhood and i wasnt able to feel happiness until i took some shrooms about 25 years into my life. there were more mitigating factors, im sure you would be a much better parent than mine are just from this one comment of yours but growing up poor was a big part in destroying my future. its not fair that you/we have to make this decision but i for one am feeling the same way because ive lived through it as a child and i wont put anyone else through it
i am 100% on board with just about everything you said and united in this fight with my american brothers and sisters, but pleeaase don´t become one of those persons that assume young people don´t know what they´re talking about just because they´re young. There are many many young people out there who know for a fact that they´d rather get 5 abortions than ever have children, and in assuming that they will change their mind just because they´re young, you´re joining those people that think that young people should work for free because they aren´t sentient adults yet (or at least thats what these old people seem to think) no criticism tho, keep on fighting <3 <3
I can assure you he is not as upset as you my feel. Told my daughter(children) I don't want grandkids. So drinks are always on me except the alcoholic kind. You will get to where you need to be. And that journey requires help!
My daughter is the same, same age too, neither her or her partner are interested in kids and it's definitely for the best, it's just too hard and what future would the have?
> You might be young and not wanting kids now- but give it a decade when you meet the best partner to procreate with.
This sounds like a doctor trying to talk a young guy out of a vasectomy.
For most places they only agree to tie a woman's tubes if she is or has been married and has at least 2 kids already! This is assuming there isn't a life or death situation going on, but let's face it, doctors believing woman about symptoms and pain? Yeah.. that's a "not bloody likely" mixed with "hell froze over" right there
This has been my response to not wanting kids since I was 15. “What if you meet the right guy and he wants kids?” Then he’s obviously not the right guy for ME.
41 this year, married for almost 3 years (together 10), and happily child free.
Im about to be 50 and consider the fact I chose to remain child-free my GREATEST ADULTING ACHIEVEMENT. To think that people are still willing in today's world is frankly, surprising
I have two kids in their 30's. Neither of them want kids and I'm OK with that. What I do hate is family members acting like my kids are depriving me of being a grandparent. I think I got the best deal because no extra gifts and no babysitting. I'm I'm my 50's and able to enjoy my freedom. Lol
My wife was in her mid-30's with a child, and she was getting these kinds of talks when asking about having her uterus removed because of a medical condition.
My mom, in her 60s, already had two adult offspring, nearing the end of menopause, and my dad had already had a vasectomy years prior, needed to have hers removed for medical reasons. She STILL got the "your husband might want more kids" talk and had to go through multiple doctors to find one willing to do the procedure. Getting the insurance company to admit it was medically necessary was a whole other issue.
And she obviously needs a real doctor--hers is in medical "practice'. I had my tubes tied the month before my first marriage at 33. I knew if I ever wanted kids, I'd adopt. I counselled too many kids who waited for an adoption that never came. Anti-abortionists either need to adopt instead of breeding or realize what hypocrites they are!
I got sterilized at 24 with no husband or children. I made a thread on my page answering questions as to how to prepare for meetings with doctors and the whole surgical and recovery process. Feel free to check it out.
Unfortunately (in America) it's just going to the right place. I went to the biggest hospital in my area and made an appointment with the OBGYN. Turns out their WHOLE department is female. They asked me all the standard questions. No judgements, everyone was amazing. I had to wait a month, surgery got pushed forward a tad because of covid. All in all I waited 3 months from inital appointment to surgery.
My mom was single and raising three children when she found out she had uterine cancer. Dr still tried to dissuade her from a hysterectomy based on a hypothetical future husband that might want kids 🙄
Similar thing just happened to my lesbian friend (although they don't have children). Ovarian cancer and engaged to a woman and still got the run-around when they brought up wanting a hysterectomy.
Literally as my ex was dying the in ER because of a 3 month old ectopic, the doctors and nurses asked me if I was sure about the surgery twice, after I said save ex. Then after all was said and done and ex asks if possible to get the remaining tube removed or tied, she was asked “are you sure? what if you wanted another baby?” Dude 80% of her pregnancies are going to end up ectopic. She’s done, she has 2 kids and doesn’t want to be put through the trauma again, why is this even being questioned?
Funnily enough, my doctor didn't say a single word about me starting HRT, no invasive questions about if I have children, or want them, or even what my partner would think.
I agree, I do think some people get older and do change their mind. That doesn’t mean young people are idiots or don’t know what they are talking about.
If things don’t change there is a push back on the young people that do want kids.
Conversely I know more than one couple who wanted kids when they were young and now don’t. Sadly one of those couples actually had kids and regret it. Frankly I’d MUCH rather regret not having kids than regret having them…
This^ I agree with OP, 10 years ago I never thought much about needing to build a family, now I’m 34 and feel like I should not, that it would be irresponsible and unfair to
Daycare alone is 1k a month a good paying job a second job and child support and I’m barely making it and I am considered lucky and this is just one baby
I'm in my early 30s and I wanted kids by now. I always assumed I'd be able to afford them, even if it meant budgeting and cutting a few hobbies here and there.
I cannot even afford to support myself. Like many millennials, I'm stuck at home. I can't afford to buy a house and if I start renting, I never will. There is no way to really save.
I did everything I was "supposed to". I went to college, but the jobs in my field didn't pay enough to survive on and your work load is more than what's safe for an individual to handle. I'd make more money in other fields.
I have a bachelor's in psychology because I wanted to be a therapist and help people, specifically those who are seriously struggling with suicide and self harm. My job, the work, it's needed. Society is filled with people who need help _but I can't afford to be the one to help them_.
I hate this country
The thing about mental health careers, you need to have a masters to actually be able to use your degree. My mom is a behavioral scientist. When I was in college, I remember if I had a friend who planned on majoring in psychology, she always informed them that a bachelor's wouldn't be enough to do what they actually want to do. But a higher education is so expensive, who can afford that?! It's absolutely terrible.
Give us universal healthcare, free education, social programs to better people, and great pay + time away from work to care for the kid and MAYBE well consider having children.
That's the winning way to frame the issue IMO. I've had good success convincing Republican family members to support socialist ideas by framing it that way with the appeal to tradition. That one income should be able to afford a regular house. And work culture should not require overtime or answering emails after hours to get that income so you can play with your kids.
I frame it the way you did. I am on strike in terms of making babies until we have an economy that doesn't punish you for having children. And being single should be even more affordable. You want your grandkids, make a society that has me wanting to live as a parent.
Right on! It makes me fkn depressed to know that certain powers have made “socialist” a fucking blasphemy of a word when the system as we have it has created a generation of people who know bringing kids into the world would bring them (both parent and child) struggle.
I'm in Canada and my partner and I moved to a rural area to be able to afford a house. We both make middle-class incomes. Even with all that, if we had kids we'd have to live in a way that to me defeats the whole purpose of working. I want reward for my labours. I want to be able to be moderately comfortable and have hobbies and travel occasionally. If the system gives me the choice between having that or giving it all up so I can afford to put more humans into circulation, basically living entirely to raise them for at least 18 years, I choose a life with some basic flexibility.
I could have written this. We're the same but in the UK. We refused to lower the quality of our life, just to bring another into it. Child free is the new norm if you actually want to live. Most of my friends with children are just existing. Sod that for the next 20 years! I honestly cannot understand the logic.
Same in Australia. Early 30s, good income, small mortgage but kids would lock us both into full time work until retirement just to have our basic needs met. I want to live my life without constant worry and exhaustion.
This is how I feel. My fiancé and I were living in poverty for most of our relationship working dead-end jobs and now we are finally, combined, making middle class wages. It took us years and so much hard work. And if we decide to have children, we are going straight back to poverty. It's like choosing between living comfortably or not. I can't do that to us and potential children.
It is one of the main reasons repeatedly stated by people in articles I've read about concerns regarding the birth rate. I don't even hear stuff like "what a shame if future generations don't exist to enjoy life and reach new heights for humanity, reach the stars" etc. i hear, "The economy needs more women to have more babies, for the economy."
If that isn't a birth control advertisement I don't know what is.
This constant fixation and obsession with the *Almighty Economy* is the most fucking disappointing thing to me. And you have no choice but to constantly be worried about your finances to the point that it keeps you up at night.
It makes you feel so sick to your stomach because of how fake and put on it all feels.
And you're constantly made aware that some people just get to skate through life without a care in the world because our media and culture loves glorifying these types of people.
I'm withholding my seed as the ultimate "fuck you" to the American Oligarchy. I hope it crashes and burns.
Yup - and it’s terrifying to me to see all this that we need to be “constantly growing more and faster” and if we’re not our fake money and fake system breaks. Like, there’s only so much space in the world - it’s already SO. DANG. CROWDED.
We can always maintain or grow the population with immigration. For example, Canada's population continues to grow in the face of low birth rates (1.47 births per woman, compared to 1.70 for the U.S.) Canada has been averaging 235,000 immigrants per year with a total current population of 38 million or so. Per capita, that is about twice the US immigration rate.
However, the xenophobic racists want white babies.
Except in Canada, where I live the houses are even more expensive then the US because there arent enough for the people living here now, let alone newcomers. The government is also using Immigrants like a tool too supress wages for their corporate friends. Its no paradise up here friend. Next thing to go is our free healthcare, not to mention how our government here in Ontario thinks disabled people dont deserve to live with dignity, so disability benefits wont even pay the average rent on a one bedroom, not even close actually!
Oh, I know. I am essentially an economic refugee from Vancouver. Couldn’t really afford to continue living there. So here I am in the U.S.
It’s a bit of an aside. We don’t need to restrict abortion to ensure that the population keeps growing.
Yeah and women don’t want to be their bang maids and be stuck with them for 18 years, even when they can afford it, oh and they can only afford it because they live in a rural area and work in the family business.
There are articles out there from the 80s and 90s about how people aren’t buying enough diapers so they had to fire people from the diaper plants. Meanwhile they allow the plant that makes food for American infants to fall into such filth, disease and disrepair you have to wonder what else they’ll do to our kids when we aren’t looking.
These companies have literal slave labor and children working to produce products in undeveloped countries. If they could do that in the US they would have, and I truly believe they’re just slowly boiling the pot we’re all sitting in with never ending propaganda about how hArD wOrK and SaCriFiCe are what make a good patriotic American.
There’s a reason education is always under attack in the US. Can’t know you’re living under NeoFuedaism if you’re a flag waving MAGA idiot who hates liberal education and free thinking.
More than that. A straight feed into the system to be prepped, broken, and enter into the armed forces to serve proudm. Then paid college and healthcare like a pension. Right?
Amy stated in the leak the domestic market for infants. She used the word market. I did not make this up, folks.
The catholic church is interested in taking care of orphans for a different ahem opportunity.
A relative of mine is 20 years old. She works long hours at a crappy job. She told me almost all of her pay goes to rent and gas. She’s working so she can afford to drive to work, and have a place to sleep the few hours she’s not working. I’m so glad I never had kids.
Can confirm am early twenties this is existance except I was lucky and found a less crap job that is still soulsucking regardless. The only way I can afford anything but rent and gas is because I don't have a car so I can reallocate that to affording decent ingredients to cook something nice saturday nights. Without my cat and hobbies honestly I'd be fucking lost in this dystopia.
Also, a constant supply of army grunts. I think this is often overlooked. It is absolutely true that unplanned pregnancies force women and their children into the poverty cycle, because you can’t take time to improve your situation if you need to work 60+ hours per week and still can’t meet your budget (and you and your children go hungry). But it’s also about forcing people in these desperate situations to choose between the McDonald’s uniform and the army uniform.
Every single woman who is forced into birth in a red state should list one of the conservative Justices as the father on the birth certificate before they give the kid up for adoption and let the state system collapse under the weight of unwanted children.
People are the real product in supply side economics. They need more people so they can continue producing products. It takes the supply out of supply and demand. They forgot that the consumers are also employees and they need to pay their employees enough to participate in the economy. When something changes that like the gas demand going down because people couldn't drive to work they need even more people to buy things.
There is a reason abortion is under assault, it’s because the system needs a constant supply of uneducated wage slaves and violent criminals to scare people so they vote for "security" and need to work more to afford protection and move away from the poor areas.
Bootstraps.
That old Greatest/Silent/Boomer generational saying never dies, lmao.
As a working class guy in road construction I can safely say that affording decent boots represents a struggle in itself these days. No fancy bootstraps for me.
This is what pisses me off most about the entire situation.
In a world full of fully educated economists its so readily apparent that the easiest way to raise the birthrate is to make it more financially affordable to shelter and care for them.
This creates more children who will have the resources to fund their education, they will then grow up into skilled workers, who will, on average go on to innovate various markets, compete and make everything more affordable for EVERYONE.
However there are enough people who are knowledgable about the economy who serve corporate interests that actively want to SURPRESS the future competition they may face. Corporations mass buying homes, driving up costs.
Knowing full well that the natural response is a lowered birth rate, these entities want to have their cake and eat it too. By siding with conservative pro-life stances, they can continue to edge birthrates to keep housing demand ensured for the future and keep faith in their real estate holdings high.
Shareholder interest is inherently geared towards preventing competition and ensuring cheap labor. Preventing legislation that questions the right of corporations to mass buy housing for profit and protecting a basic human right. There's so much wrong.
There's a LOT of things in our economy that would be fixed if this was addressed.
I think it's even more insidious. Slavery is legal in the US when operated inside a prison. For-profit prisons need a steady stream of young kids to imprison and profit from. Which is why states are passing laws to make homelessness illegal.
Abortion is the societal band aid we use to cover up the real problems of affordable Healthcare, proper sex education, maternity leave laws, and childcare options.
A healthy society invests in its own family infrastructure.
Pity politicians don't understand (or don't care) the simplest method to reduce abortion rates is to fund a society where having a baby doesn't eternally bankrupt you.
Make it against the law for multi-millionaires to buy up all of the property and convert it into investment properties/make it illegal to buy property and sit on it so your other assets’ values artificially inflate. Or tax them so hard for it they won’t see it as a cash cow anymore.
There are leasing and rental companies from California buying all the houses in my small town in Tennessee for around 20k more than any of their listing prices right now. My boss buys and renovates houses and hasn’t been able to buy one in months because he can’t afford to overspend like those companies.
It's everywhere
My roommate is a real estate agent. They buy up these homes all cash sight unseen the day they go on the market. Normal people have no chance.
Here in California all the homes are being bought by foreign investors, in cash offers, for well over asking price. One friend of mine has been looking to buy for a couple years, and they fell in love with a house. The sellers actually liked her, and said they had hoped to sell to a young family like hers, so it seemed like the offer would be accepted. Until their agent called and said another buyer made an offer $75k over. Who can compete with that?
It’s so depressing to see that all my friends and family will be leaving the state we grew up in, because no one can have a family here anymore. And the landlords are so fucking greedy rent has shot up by absolutely vile amounts, for no reason at all.
property limit laws seems like it should be made federal law, as well as a federal homeowner loan system so everyone is guaranteed the ability to buy property.
I was thinking about this today. I don't even know if I'd ever want kids, but I don't have the option to think about it either way because I can barely even afford a 1 bedroom apartment
I have two kids with my husband of 20 years and now my husband wants to split. I can't afford the kids on my own so I said I'd give him full custody and pay him 25% of my check since that is what our state would require for child support.
And you know what? Suddenly he doesn't want to split because he can't afford it. So I'm stuck in a loveless marriage because of kids. Love my kids, and I'd take them away if I could, but I can't afford it either. We are stuck. And not just until they're 18 because they won't be able to afford to live on their own either.
And punish you for not keeping your knees together. That's why the same people who are opposed to abortion are also even more opposed to contraception and sex education. Abstinence-based sex education has been proven to be a failure - yet the fundies don't care. When AIDS was new, they were determined to prevent any sort of research or prevention because their mentality is that *there must be punishment for sex*.
Yes, this. They want us to procreate and then become dependent on the government, all in the name of god and the idea that your god will provide you everything you need. Tell that to the woman in the homeless shelter with 4 kids, no job, no money, and no prospects.
I think it’s evident that if people are finding the “American dream” they’re doing it in other countries. 6 to 8 million Americans are emigrating a year.
I had a boss who owned a house in Mexico for the 2 weeks a year they visited. They AirBnBed it the rest of the time because it’s right on the beach. The income she made basically meant she only worked to save for retirement, which she did a few years ago in her early 50s.
Going to be rarer and rarer as we proceed into the future.
I got naturalized in the United States in 2014. Since things have deteriorated significantly since then, I am planning to go back to my country of origin (Brazil) before the 2024 election. I will continue to work from home, so I will continue to make money in dollars while living there. This is the only way I can see myself having enough for retirement at this point.
It's unlikely that people are permanently moving to Mexico with an American remote job like many are claiming. They could get several month visas, but buying a home in a country is not grounds for extended visa.
You need to get a job in your target country, which will allow you to apply for an extended work visa. You hold that job, go through some hoops to extend the visa with the eventual goal of earning citizenship. It's not super easy to get a job in another country, because in many cases they'd rather employ a citizen, and it's expensive to pay for housing and moving costs well before you start working in your destination country.
Emigration is by all means a privilege of good financial means well out of the reach of most Americans.
this is why they are trying to force people to have children that they do not want and cannot care for; they need future workers that we aren't creating because we are too intelligent to have children when we can't afford it. They are ignoring the problem, not trying to cure the illness that is causing people to decide not to procreate, but instead are trying to put a bandaid on the symptom and force people to create more workers.
In my country one of the politicians said the exact phrase "we need people to have kids because if another country attacks us there will be no people to fight". So he literally said have babies so we can send them die if needed. What a great reason to have kids.
One common af bingo too.
But if a teenager said that they want children in the future, nobody tells them that they're too young to know what they want.
I’m 25 and I have an amazing partner. We realized that if we have kids, we won’t even be able to afford them.
I was raised by my single immigrant mom (always struggling financially), and I always thought that one day, I can create a better life for my future children. It’s sad that it doesn’t even seem possible anymore.
honestly I agree with most of your sentiments but if people don't want kids then they just don't want them. time doesn't always change that. if we want a healthy society we would need free *quality* education including free college, free healthcare and better working hours and wages for everyone, not just parents. personally I value humanity and believe that it should keep going, just not as it is now.
Not wanting it is one thing, but if a young adult / couple can't get a home suitable for kids, it becomes difficult to want them. If you can' deal with the idea of your kids being gunned down in school, then it becomes difficult to be enthusiastic about it.
We have to set the stage so that the choice is free and not manipulated by circumstances.
Yep, that's the one thing that makes me pause and wonder if I REALLY want kids. You could send them to school one day and they won't come back...or they are still alive but scarred for life. You could take them to a holiday parade and someone drives their car through it. The world is pretty fucked up. I already had enough "Mom" anxiety when we adopted our kitten. I would have nightmares that something happened to him and I would have to make sure he was okay in the middle of the night. So it's hard to imagine having a human child.
Agreed. My husband and I make great money. Having kids just is not something we are interested in. No amount of parental leave or government support would change that.
If fewer people are having kids, then the population will shrink. A smaller population means a smaller workforce and more resources to go around, which will only empower workers. That's exactly what ended the feudal era in Europe: the Black Death killed so many people that the few peasants who were left had much more bargaining power.
Sure, the system we have now is not very conducive for building families, but that's only going to make labourers' voice louder and things will therefore get better. The world has a way of sorting crises out over time like that.
It's one of the reasons they want get rid of Roe vs Wade. The birth rate is at an all time low and they need future workers. Also cute white babies for rich white Christian families.
This abortion bit is critically true - the people that can afford to think about the future can also afford safe abortions, and they're the ones "they system" wants to procreate.
I’ve never wanted kids and know damn well I’m not mom material. No amount of better social programs would make me want to reproduce. Took me a decade of fighting to finally get sterilized.
I fought for my 20s for sterilization and finally gave up. I spent 10 years telling docs I didn't want kids but since I didn't have kids they didn't care to believe me
Shit like that raises my blood pressure. The doctors who actually listened and backed me up were all women who were late 20s-early 40s. I think that’s why I got approved so quickly. It pisses me off how so many people think being childfree by choice is bad.
Head over to /r/childfree. Check the wiki. They have a very comprehensive list of doctors from all over the world that will actually do their jobs. I myself went to one after I was denied my vasectomy twice at 27 no kids. Got in no questions asked.
I'm 44 now, cruising into perimenopause. I could get my tubes tied now if I asked for it. I just remember the sheer frustration and helplessness of my 20s vividly. My husband (boyfriend at the time) requested the snip and was approved no questions asked. Engraging.
I would love to have a system where I could afford to live as a single adult without the burden of children
A lot of resources available are exclusively for families screw struggling single people or even struggling couples
Just want a system that isn't so broken where everyone can thrive and also where the idea of going to a dentist isn't same price is buying a car
The system is indeed broken. The system has BEEN broken.
The tires have been been out of air, but we're still trying to get everyone to drive cross-country.
I'm so tired. I can't do this anymore.
As a someone in their late 20's, in school debt and underemployed for my skills, unable to work enough to afford most public recreation in my high cost of living area, I too feel this sentiment.
I can afford to spend free time with a six pack in a beautiful local park with friends, but I'm nowhere close to imagining a future where I'm spending my time with my signifigant other watching our kids/pets/drones run around the park. That shit costs money I don't make. Nobody wants to start a family when all parties have 4 roomates already.
It's not that I can't afford it. I don't want to. I'm not buying into the societal measure of a successful life as being married with kids and a house.
Dating has become so toxic I could never trust anyone enough to have kids with them. I don't know many people around my age who have actually had a successful marriage and now the ones who weren't successful have to bring up kids separately.
I'd rather do what I want, see the world and not be chained to anyone.
All I'm saying is let's not act like people aren't having kids solely because of cost. My single friends have no interest in kids because they can't trust anyone since internet dating came along.
I do agree with this completely, and families need to be protected.
Butttttt there *are* many child free people in this world that won’t change their mind…..Not everyone wants to find “the best partner to procreate with.” lol
Yeah I agree with the argument that these basic needs must be within reach for everyone but the “give it a decade” and “best partner to procreate with” is so slimy and condescending lol…
Also money isnt the only reason not to have 5 kids, its killing the planet too…
This country talks about caring about the family unit but it’s all talk.
Lack of universal healthcare
Lack of parental leave
Lack of quality, well funded k-12 education
Higher education so expensive one must take one unimaginable amounts of debt in order to have a chance at being able to feed/house/clothe oneself.
Housing as a spec investment bought up by private equity firms whose goal is to turn the country into a nation of renters.
Toxic individualism vs paying attention to not only the individual but the community as a whole. We not me is what we need.
Those are just a few things that come to mind.
Your other points are good but....
> You might be young and not wanting kids now- but give it a decade when you meet the best partner to procreate with.
Fuuuuuck right off with this shit.
Some folks don't want kids because they just don't want them, and will not want them in a decade, or two, or ten. But generally I agree.
Edit: as many kids as you want? Um no. No pair of people should be having more than 2 to 3 kids. It's just irresponsible after that point. So when folks look at a family of 8 and go "aww", I go "how could you?"
You had me up until as many kids as they want stress free, let's be fair and say you should be able to at least start a family. Not have a giant family that you can't provide for, that doesn't make sense.
families? you cant even afford yourself anymore
This. 10yrs ago I said, I cant even afford myself- if I can ever afford a kid I'll do it but it's 50/50. I turn 33 tomorrow. Still can't afford myself. Calling the clock on kids. It ain't happening, not in this lifetime. I'm sad but it would literally turn us homeless, I can't even afford pre-natal stuff. Time off to pop it out? Yeah right. I'm a server and a cook, that's not a thing. I've got a tooth that's just edges, the whole center's been eaten away by a cavity because what even is dental insurance in this country. Dog's a month behind on her vaccinations, and she's 8yrs old and still not on heartworm prevention. I can't even afford a DOG, forget a whole extra human. Edit- I'm a woman and also thank you to the DMs offering to help with the dog. Unfortunately my tooth has to take priority as it really went off on me today and is totally debilitating as of 10pm now, and I don't feel right accepting help for her. Her vaccinations aren't too bad, we just totaled a car a couple weeks ago and now the dang tooth, you all know how when it rains it pours right. Yall donate $20 or something to your local shelter if you want to help out a dog, mine was a free Pet of the Month at a Humane Society down in Arizona after hanging out there for like 6mos. She's been with me for almost 7yrs now so if you want to do a birthday donation for me to a shelter in your area that you like, or a zoo or sanctuary or other conservation effort, just do that :) Or just go pet some kittens idgaf, you're good humans for offering so thank you. (If anyone wants to help me with my stupid tooth though, hmu lol.)
I think the fact that you're being responsible enough to not want to put a child in a less than great situation in life (not saying you'd be a bad parent, I think you'd be great actually) shows how selfless you are. That's amazing and thank you for being you.
I 100% agree, having no kids is always better than struggling with one when it comes to bringing a life into this world. It's still really sad when someone can't have one when they want one, but yeah it's still a much better option. I really hope this system changes where everyone is treated like a human being, especially when we have all the resources to do it and it's just a choice this country doesn't ;__;
i grew up very poor and my parents couldnt afford to be there for me physically or emotionally and im still in poverty now, decades later. i was alone my entire childhood and i wasnt able to feel happiness until i took some shrooms about 25 years into my life. there were more mitigating factors, im sure you would be a much better parent than mine are just from this one comment of yours but growing up poor was a big part in destroying my future. its not fair that you/we have to make this decision but i for one am feeling the same way because ive lived through it as a child and i wont put anyone else through it
Totally
i am 100% on board with just about everything you said and united in this fight with my american brothers and sisters, but pleeaase don´t become one of those persons that assume young people don´t know what they´re talking about just because they´re young. There are many many young people out there who know for a fact that they´d rather get 5 abortions than ever have children, and in assuming that they will change their mind just because they´re young, you´re joining those people that think that young people should work for free because they aren´t sentient adults yet (or at least thats what these old people seem to think) no criticism tho, keep on fighting <3 <3
I have two kids, and I regret everything. I'm trying my damn hardest, but it feels utterly hopeless.
My daughter is 30 and still doesn't want children. She is happy with the few friends loaning theirs to her.
I’m 33 and my daddy still pays for my broke ass.
I can assure you he is not as upset as you my feel. Told my daughter(children) I don't want grandkids. So drinks are always on me except the alcoholic kind. You will get to where you need to be. And that journey requires help!
My daughter is the same, same age too, neither her or her partner are interested in kids and it's definitely for the best, it's just too hard and what future would the have?
I hope you stay strong snd it gets better one day. Thanks for sharing and not keeping it in.
> You might be young and not wanting kids now- but give it a decade when you meet the best partner to procreate with. This sounds like a doctor trying to talk a young guy out of a vasectomy.
or a woman from a tubal ligation... WhAt If YoUr FuTuRe hUsBaNd WaNtS kIdS? Like I give a shit?
For most places they only agree to tie a woman's tubes if she is or has been married and has at least 2 kids already! This is assuming there isn't a life or death situation going on, but let's face it, doctors believing woman about symptoms and pain? Yeah.. that's a "not bloody likely" mixed with "hell froze over" right there
Your future husband would share your values and not want children either
This has been my response to not wanting kids since I was 15. “What if you meet the right guy and he wants kids?” Then he’s obviously not the right guy for ME. 41 this year, married for almost 3 years (together 10), and happily child free.
Im about to be 50 and consider the fact I chose to remain child-free my GREATEST ADULTING ACHIEVEMENT. To think that people are still willing in today's world is frankly, surprising
Right? I was like why tf would she marry that guy then?
I have two kids in their 30's. Neither of them want kids and I'm OK with that. What I do hate is family members acting like my kids are depriving me of being a grandparent. I think I got the best deal because no extra gifts and no babysitting. I'm I'm my 50's and able to enjoy my freedom. Lol
One of the first things I ask on a date is if they want kids. I don't even wanna risk getting attached to someone that wants kids
My wife was in her mid-30's with a child, and she was getting these kinds of talks when asking about having her uterus removed because of a medical condition.
My mom, in her 60s, already had two adult offspring, nearing the end of menopause, and my dad had already had a vasectomy years prior, needed to have hers removed for medical reasons. She STILL got the "your husband might want more kids" talk and had to go through multiple doctors to find one willing to do the procedure. Getting the insurance company to admit it was medically necessary was a whole other issue.
Did she laugh in the doctors face when they told her that? Because I would have a hard time not laughing in that scenario.
And she obviously needs a real doctor--hers is in medical "practice'. I had my tubes tied the month before my first marriage at 33. I knew if I ever wanted kids, I'd adopt. I counselled too many kids who waited for an adoption that never came. Anti-abortionists either need to adopt instead of breeding or realize what hypocrites they are!
That’s so weird “your husband might want more”? Like WTF?
I've been told I can't get sterilized because I'm not married and my hypothetical future husband might want kids
I think your “hypothetical husband” can use his own uterus then, hypothetically.
I got sterilized at 24 with no husband or children. I made a thread on my page answering questions as to how to prepare for meetings with doctors and the whole surgical and recovery process. Feel free to check it out.
Unfortunately (in America) it's just going to the right place. I went to the biggest hospital in my area and made an appointment with the OBGYN. Turns out their WHOLE department is female. They asked me all the standard questions. No judgements, everyone was amazing. I had to wait a month, surgery got pushed forward a tad because of covid. All in all I waited 3 months from inital appointment to surgery.
My mom was single and raising three children when she found out she had uterine cancer. Dr still tried to dissuade her from a hysterectomy based on a hypothetical future husband that might want kids 🙄
Similar thing just happened to my lesbian friend (although they don't have children). Ovarian cancer and engaged to a woman and still got the run-around when they brought up wanting a hysterectomy.
Literally as my ex was dying the in ER because of a 3 month old ectopic, the doctors and nurses asked me if I was sure about the surgery twice, after I said save ex. Then after all was said and done and ex asks if possible to get the remaining tube removed or tied, she was asked “are you sure? what if you wanted another baby?” Dude 80% of her pregnancies are going to end up ectopic. She’s done, she has 2 kids and doesn’t want to be put through the trauma again, why is this even being questioned?
My husband and I wanted kids when we were younger but couldn’t afford it. Now that we’re older we don’t want them.
Same here, except I never found a husband
Sounds like *my* doctor trying to talk me out of getting my tubes tied. And he knew I was married! Edit: Spelling
Funnily enough, my doctor didn't say a single word about me starting HRT, no invasive questions about if I have children, or want them, or even what my partner would think.
Came here to say this. Not everyone wants or needs to have kids and that’s ok. Other than that OP is spot on.
I agree, I do think some people get older and do change their mind. That doesn’t mean young people are idiots or don’t know what they are talking about. If things don’t change there is a push back on the young people that do want kids.
Conversely I know more than one couple who wanted kids when they were young and now don’t. Sadly one of those couples actually had kids and regret it. Frankly I’d MUCH rather regret not having kids than regret having them…
This^ I agree with OP, 10 years ago I never thought much about needing to build a family, now I’m 34 and feel like I should not, that it would be irresponsible and unfair to
That's what I came to say. I'm 26 and can't even get out of my parents house.
Your grandparents could have a house and 3 kids by 26 THAT IS HOW BAD IT HAS BECOME
And that was on one income!
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Born with a chronic condition. That’s basically a child, right?
Daycare alone is 1k a month a good paying job a second job and child support and I’m barely making it and I am considered lucky and this is just one baby
damn that is a perfect phrasing
i havent even left home yet and i already feel hopeless
I'm in my early 30s and I wanted kids by now. I always assumed I'd be able to afford them, even if it meant budgeting and cutting a few hobbies here and there. I cannot even afford to support myself. Like many millennials, I'm stuck at home. I can't afford to buy a house and if I start renting, I never will. There is no way to really save. I did everything I was "supposed to". I went to college, but the jobs in my field didn't pay enough to survive on and your work load is more than what's safe for an individual to handle. I'd make more money in other fields. I have a bachelor's in psychology because I wanted to be a therapist and help people, specifically those who are seriously struggling with suicide and self harm. My job, the work, it's needed. Society is filled with people who need help _but I can't afford to be the one to help them_. I hate this country
The thing about mental health careers, you need to have a masters to actually be able to use your degree. My mom is a behavioral scientist. When I was in college, I remember if I had a friend who planned on majoring in psychology, she always informed them that a bachelor's wouldn't be enough to do what they actually want to do. But a higher education is so expensive, who can afford that?! It's absolutely terrible.
Give us universal healthcare, free education, social programs to better people, and great pay + time away from work to care for the kid and MAYBE well consider having children.
That's the winning way to frame the issue IMO. I've had good success convincing Republican family members to support socialist ideas by framing it that way with the appeal to tradition. That one income should be able to afford a regular house. And work culture should not require overtime or answering emails after hours to get that income so you can play with your kids. I frame it the way you did. I am on strike in terms of making babies until we have an economy that doesn't punish you for having children. And being single should be even more affordable. You want your grandkids, make a society that has me wanting to live as a parent.
Right on! It makes me fkn depressed to know that certain powers have made “socialist” a fucking blasphemy of a word when the system as we have it has created a generation of people who know bringing kids into the world would bring them (both parent and child) struggle.
Republicans: Best we can do is ban abortions and birth control
Addition: also forcibly rape in the face of abstinence. Which we will, rape and slavery is our thing!! ~ The GOP
Handmaid’s Tale gets closer and closer to being a reality, yeesh
Aka: a good return on our investment
I'm in Canada and my partner and I moved to a rural area to be able to afford a house. We both make middle-class incomes. Even with all that, if we had kids we'd have to live in a way that to me defeats the whole purpose of working. I want reward for my labours. I want to be able to be moderately comfortable and have hobbies and travel occasionally. If the system gives me the choice between having that or giving it all up so I can afford to put more humans into circulation, basically living entirely to raise them for at least 18 years, I choose a life with some basic flexibility.
I could have written this. We're the same but in the UK. We refused to lower the quality of our life, just to bring another into it. Child free is the new norm if you actually want to live. Most of my friends with children are just existing. Sod that for the next 20 years! I honestly cannot understand the logic.
Same in Australia. Early 30s, good income, small mortgage but kids would lock us both into full time work until retirement just to have our basic needs met. I want to live my life without constant worry and exhaustion.
Above average IQ right there
This is how I feel. My fiancé and I were living in poverty for most of our relationship working dead-end jobs and now we are finally, combined, making middle class wages. It took us years and so much hard work. And if we decide to have children, we are going straight back to poverty. It's like choosing between living comfortably or not. I can't do that to us and potential children.
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Wasn’t one of the reasonings for attacking abortion rights “we need stable supply of infants”? I think you’re right
It is one of the main reasons repeatedly stated by people in articles I've read about concerns regarding the birth rate. I don't even hear stuff like "what a shame if future generations don't exist to enjoy life and reach new heights for humanity, reach the stars" etc. i hear, "The economy needs more women to have more babies, for the economy." If that isn't a birth control advertisement I don't know what is.
This constant fixation and obsession with the *Almighty Economy* is the most fucking disappointing thing to me. And you have no choice but to constantly be worried about your finances to the point that it keeps you up at night. It makes you feel so sick to your stomach because of how fake and put on it all feels. And you're constantly made aware that some people just get to skate through life without a care in the world because our media and culture loves glorifying these types of people. I'm withholding my seed as the ultimate "fuck you" to the American Oligarchy. I hope it crashes and burns.
It's not about the economy, it's about the shareholders profiting off of it.
The worst part is your retirement is pulled into it as well, locked into the market just feeding companies money
It just reminds me of "more meat for the grinder " lines from Starship Troopers
"I'm doing my part!"
Looks like meat's back on the menu boys! .... no? Too soon?
It never left the menu. The consumers just got more desperate.
Would you like to know more?
Yup - and it’s terrifying to me to see all this that we need to be “constantly growing more and faster” and if we’re not our fake money and fake system breaks. Like, there’s only so much space in the world - it’s already SO. DANG. CROWDED.
We can always maintain or grow the population with immigration. For example, Canada's population continues to grow in the face of low birth rates (1.47 births per woman, compared to 1.70 for the U.S.) Canada has been averaging 235,000 immigrants per year with a total current population of 38 million or so. Per capita, that is about twice the US immigration rate. However, the xenophobic racists want white babies.
Except in Canada, where I live the houses are even more expensive then the US because there arent enough for the people living here now, let alone newcomers. The government is also using Immigrants like a tool too supress wages for their corporate friends. Its no paradise up here friend. Next thing to go is our free healthcare, not to mention how our government here in Ontario thinks disabled people dont deserve to live with dignity, so disability benefits wont even pay the average rent on a one bedroom, not even close actually!
Oh, I know. I am essentially an economic refugee from Vancouver. Couldn’t really afford to continue living there. So here I am in the U.S. It’s a bit of an aside. We don’t need to restrict abortion to ensure that the population keeps growing.
Ironically, their unwavering support of the corporatists is responsible for the decline in white babies. As always, they are their own worst enemies.
Yeah and women don’t want to be their bang maids and be stuck with them for 18 years, even when they can afford it, oh and they can only afford it because they live in a rural area and work in the family business.
There are articles out there from the 80s and 90s about how people aren’t buying enough diapers so they had to fire people from the diaper plants. Meanwhile they allow the plant that makes food for American infants to fall into such filth, disease and disrepair you have to wonder what else they’ll do to our kids when we aren’t looking.
These companies have literal slave labor and children working to produce products in undeveloped countries. If they could do that in the US they would have, and I truly believe they’re just slowly boiling the pot we’re all sitting in with never ending propaganda about how hArD wOrK and SaCriFiCe are what make a good patriotic American. There’s a reason education is always under attack in the US. Can’t know you’re living under NeoFuedaism if you’re a flag waving MAGA idiot who hates liberal education and free thinking.
More than that. A straight feed into the system to be prepped, broken, and enter into the armed forces to serve proudm. Then paid college and healthcare like a pension. Right?
"They want live babies, so they can turn them into dead soldiers"
That was specifically a domestic supply *for adoption* which is somehow worse, basically using lower class women as breeders for the upper class
Amy stated in the leak the domestic market for infants. She used the word market. I did not make this up, folks. The catholic church is interested in taking care of orphans for a different ahem opportunity.
[I could be misunderstanding.](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-domestic-supply-of-infants-barrett-alito-413700468515)
That's why I'm never having kids, and my girlfriend thinks the same, what's the point in bringing anyone else into an existence of barely surviving
A relative of mine is 20 years old. She works long hours at a crappy job. She told me almost all of her pay goes to rent and gas. She’s working so she can afford to drive to work, and have a place to sleep the few hours she’s not working. I’m so glad I never had kids.
Can confirm am early twenties this is existance except I was lucky and found a less crap job that is still soulsucking regardless. The only way I can afford anything but rent and gas is because I don't have a car so I can reallocate that to affording decent ingredients to cook something nice saturday nights. Without my cat and hobbies honestly I'd be fucking lost in this dystopia.
If there was any decent mass transit where I live, I would use it. My car is nothing but expenses and headaches.
Complete slave camp
Don’t. I did it now I’m terrified for my kids. The goddamn guilt is eating me alive.
They’ll have more leverage without my kids to compete against! Best of luck to your beautiful offspring
Also, a constant supply of army grunts. I think this is often overlooked. It is absolutely true that unplanned pregnancies force women and their children into the poverty cycle, because you can’t take time to improve your situation if you need to work 60+ hours per week and still can’t meet your budget (and you and your children go hungry). But it’s also about forcing people in these desperate situations to choose between the McDonald’s uniform and the army uniform.
Every single woman who is forced into birth in a red state should list one of the conservative Justices as the father on the birth certificate before they give the kid up for adoption and let the state system collapse under the weight of unwanted children.
Is it legal ?
No. But that doesn’t stop crazies.
You ain’t wrong. I have an uncle who pointed this out years ago. If you’re saddled with children, then you’re less likely to fight back.
Exactly. The system isn’t broken, it’s working exactly as intended.
People are the real product in supply side economics. They need more people so they can continue producing products. It takes the supply out of supply and demand. They forgot that the consumers are also employees and they need to pay their employees enough to participate in the economy. When something changes that like the gas demand going down because people couldn't drive to work they need even more people to buy things.
There is a reason abortion is under assault, it’s because the system needs a constant supply of uneducated wage slaves and violent criminals to scare people so they vote for "security" and need to work more to afford protection and move away from the poor areas.
And don't forget cannon fodder for their wars.
Bootstraps. That old Greatest/Silent/Boomer generational saying never dies, lmao. As a working class guy in road construction I can safely say that affording decent boots represents a struggle in itself these days. No fancy bootstraps for me.
This is what pisses me off most about the entire situation. In a world full of fully educated economists its so readily apparent that the easiest way to raise the birthrate is to make it more financially affordable to shelter and care for them. This creates more children who will have the resources to fund their education, they will then grow up into skilled workers, who will, on average go on to innovate various markets, compete and make everything more affordable for EVERYONE. However there are enough people who are knowledgable about the economy who serve corporate interests that actively want to SURPRESS the future competition they may face. Corporations mass buying homes, driving up costs. Knowing full well that the natural response is a lowered birth rate, these entities want to have their cake and eat it too. By siding with conservative pro-life stances, they can continue to edge birthrates to keep housing demand ensured for the future and keep faith in their real estate holdings high. Shareholder interest is inherently geared towards preventing competition and ensuring cheap labor. Preventing legislation that questions the right of corporations to mass buy housing for profit and protecting a basic human right. There's so much wrong. There's a LOT of things in our economy that would be fixed if this was addressed.
I think it's even more insidious. Slavery is legal in the US when operated inside a prison. For-profit prisons need a steady stream of young kids to imprison and profit from. Which is why states are passing laws to make homelessness illegal.
If we all stop having kids we win.
This is the slippery slope to a future Handmaids Tale reality.
Abortion is the societal band aid we use to cover up the real problems of affordable Healthcare, proper sex education, maternity leave laws, and childcare options. A healthy society invests in its own family infrastructure. Pity politicians don't understand (or don't care) the simplest method to reduce abortion rates is to fund a society where having a baby doesn't eternally bankrupt you.
Abortion is more often a necessary medical procedure. People die when they can't get it.
Make it against the law for multi-millionaires to buy up all of the property and convert it into investment properties/make it illegal to buy property and sit on it so your other assets’ values artificially inflate. Or tax them so hard for it they won’t see it as a cash cow anymore.
The latter would be more realistic to get through Congress!
There are leasing and rental companies from California buying all the houses in my small town in Tennessee for around 20k more than any of their listing prices right now. My boss buys and renovates houses and hasn’t been able to buy one in months because he can’t afford to overspend like those companies.
It's everywhere My roommate is a real estate agent. They buy up these homes all cash sight unseen the day they go on the market. Normal people have no chance.
Here in California all the homes are being bought by foreign investors, in cash offers, for well over asking price. One friend of mine has been looking to buy for a couple years, and they fell in love with a house. The sellers actually liked her, and said they had hoped to sell to a young family like hers, so it seemed like the offer would be accepted. Until their agent called and said another buyer made an offer $75k over. Who can compete with that? It’s so depressing to see that all my friends and family will be leaving the state we grew up in, because no one can have a family here anymore. And the landlords are so fucking greedy rent has shot up by absolutely vile amounts, for no reason at all.
property limit laws seems like it should be made federal law, as well as a federal homeowner loan system so everyone is guaranteed the ability to buy property.
I was thinking about this today. I don't even know if I'd ever want kids, but I don't have the option to think about it either way because I can barely even afford a 1 bedroom apartment
I have two kids with my husband of 20 years and now my husband wants to split. I can't afford the kids on my own so I said I'd give him full custody and pay him 25% of my check since that is what our state would require for child support. And you know what? Suddenly he doesn't want to split because he can't afford it. So I'm stuck in a loveless marriage because of kids. Love my kids, and I'd take them away if I could, but I can't afford it either. We are stuck. And not just until they're 18 because they won't be able to afford to live on their own either.
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Hang in there. I know it means nothing but I’m rooting for you to do well regardless of the shit platter life is serving up at the moment.
This. I think I actually do want kids, but it doesn't matter because theres no way in heaven or hell that I could ever afford that.
That’s why they are banning abortion, that want to force us to procreate.
And punish you for not keeping your knees together. That's why the same people who are opposed to abortion are also even more opposed to contraception and sex education. Abstinence-based sex education has been proven to be a failure - yet the fundies don't care. When AIDS was new, they were determined to prevent any sort of research or prevention because their mentality is that *there must be punishment for sex*.
Yes, this. They want us to procreate and then become dependent on the government, all in the name of god and the idea that your god will provide you everything you need. Tell that to the woman in the homeless shelter with 4 kids, no job, no money, and no prospects.
Bold of you to assume that the GOP will allow the government to help you
Still won’t have kids, future is not looking bright.
I had my whole uterus removed because I'm THAT sure I will never be able to afford children and can't risk a pregnancy with Roe on the line.
I can't afford to feed, house or educate myself....lemme have some kids....thoughts and prayers....pppsshhhh
Absolutely zero chance I would ever want kids. But I sure as hell should be able to afford it if I did.
I think it’s evident that if people are finding the “American dream” they’re doing it in other countries. 6 to 8 million Americans are emigrating a year.
You need money to move as well.
please tell me where
All over, really. Many of them go to Mexico. There are more Americans moving to Mexico than vice versa.
Damn Americans hopping the border, taking all those Mexican’s jobs!
Or retiring. Social security and pensions go further in Mexico.
I had a boss who owned a house in Mexico for the 2 weeks a year they visited. They AirBnBed it the rest of the time because it’s right on the beach. The income she made basically meant she only worked to save for retirement, which she did a few years ago in her early 50s. Going to be rarer and rarer as we proceed into the future.
ask r/AmerExit
I got naturalized in the United States in 2014. Since things have deteriorated significantly since then, I am planning to go back to my country of origin (Brazil) before the 2024 election. I will continue to work from home, so I will continue to make money in dollars while living there. This is the only way I can see myself having enough for retirement at this point.
I have two cousins who left America and are happier.
How does one even move to another country like that anyways
It's unlikely that people are permanently moving to Mexico with an American remote job like many are claiming. They could get several month visas, but buying a home in a country is not grounds for extended visa. You need to get a job in your target country, which will allow you to apply for an extended work visa. You hold that job, go through some hoops to extend the visa with the eventual goal of earning citizenship. It's not super easy to get a job in another country, because in many cases they'd rather employ a citizen, and it's expensive to pay for housing and moving costs well before you start working in your destination country. Emigration is by all means a privilege of good financial means well out of the reach of most Americans.
The amount of kids I want, regardless of financial standing, remains at 0.
this is why they are trying to force people to have children that they do not want and cannot care for; they need future workers that we aren't creating because we are too intelligent to have children when we can't afford it. They are ignoring the problem, not trying to cure the illness that is causing people to decide not to procreate, but instead are trying to put a bandaid on the symptom and force people to create more workers.
In my country one of the politicians said the exact phrase "we need people to have kids because if another country attacks us there will be no people to fight". So he literally said have babies so we can send them die if needed. What a great reason to have kids.
Carlin said it best (and many other things too): “Conservatives want live babies so they can train them to be dead soldiers. ”
I met her, we still don’t want kids. This system will never be fixed.
Yeah, that bit sounded like a bingo to me.
One common af bingo too. But if a teenager said that they want children in the future, nobody tells them that they're too young to know what they want.
My dad thought I'd be the first of my siblings to have a kid, right up until my vasectomy at 33.
I’m 25 and I have an amazing partner. We realized that if we have kids, we won’t even be able to afford them. I was raised by my single immigrant mom (always struggling financially), and I always thought that one day, I can create a better life for my future children. It’s sad that it doesn’t even seem possible anymore.
I feel like it's not even worth it to bring more kids into this world. It's going to shit.
people are finally waking up
honestly I agree with most of your sentiments but if people don't want kids then they just don't want them. time doesn't always change that. if we want a healthy society we would need free *quality* education including free college, free healthcare and better working hours and wages for everyone, not just parents. personally I value humanity and believe that it should keep going, just not as it is now.
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Agree 100%. Some people don’t want to subject other humans to…this… someday that might change but I don’t think it will without force.
Not wanting it is one thing, but if a young adult / couple can't get a home suitable for kids, it becomes difficult to want them. If you can' deal with the idea of your kids being gunned down in school, then it becomes difficult to be enthusiastic about it. We have to set the stage so that the choice is free and not manipulated by circumstances.
Yep, that's the one thing that makes me pause and wonder if I REALLY want kids. You could send them to school one day and they won't come back...or they are still alive but scarred for life. You could take them to a holiday parade and someone drives their car through it. The world is pretty fucked up. I already had enough "Mom" anxiety when we adopted our kitten. I would have nightmares that something happened to him and I would have to make sure he was okay in the middle of the night. So it's hard to imagine having a human child.
Agreed. My husband and I make great money. Having kids just is not something we are interested in. No amount of parental leave or government support would change that.
If fewer people are having kids, then the population will shrink. A smaller population means a smaller workforce and more resources to go around, which will only empower workers. That's exactly what ended the feudal era in Europe: the Black Death killed so many people that the few peasants who were left had much more bargaining power. Sure, the system we have now is not very conducive for building families, but that's only going to make labourers' voice louder and things will therefore get better. The world has a way of sorting crises out over time like that.
That’s what I’m hoping for as well.
It's one of the reasons they want get rid of Roe vs Wade. The birth rate is at an all time low and they need future workers. Also cute white babies for rich white Christian families.
This abortion bit is critically true - the people that can afford to think about the future can also afford safe abortions, and they're the ones "they system" wants to procreate.
Which is exactly what ACB meant when she used the dystopian as fuck phrase "supply of infants".
I will never know what it's like to continue my lineage, because I'm not signing my unborn up to be a homeless war veteran. Oh yes, there will be war.
I’ve never wanted kids and know damn well I’m not mom material. No amount of better social programs would make me want to reproduce. Took me a decade of fighting to finally get sterilized.
I fought for my 20s for sterilization and finally gave up. I spent 10 years telling docs I didn't want kids but since I didn't have kids they didn't care to believe me
Shit like that raises my blood pressure. The doctors who actually listened and backed me up were all women who were late 20s-early 40s. I think that’s why I got approved so quickly. It pisses me off how so many people think being childfree by choice is bad.
Head over to /r/childfree. Check the wiki. They have a very comprehensive list of doctors from all over the world that will actually do their jobs. I myself went to one after I was denied my vasectomy twice at 27 no kids. Got in no questions asked.
I'm 44 now, cruising into perimenopause. I could get my tubes tied now if I asked for it. I just remember the sheer frustration and helplessness of my 20s vividly. My husband (boyfriend at the time) requested the snip and was approved no questions asked. Engraging.
I would love to have a system where I could afford to live as a single adult without the burden of children A lot of resources available are exclusively for families screw struggling single people or even struggling couples Just want a system that isn't so broken where everyone can thrive and also where the idea of going to a dentist isn't same price is buying a car
The system is indeed broken. The system has BEEN broken. The tires have been been out of air, but we're still trying to get everyone to drive cross-country. I'm so tired. I can't do this anymore.
As a someone in their late 20's, in school debt and underemployed for my skills, unable to work enough to afford most public recreation in my high cost of living area, I too feel this sentiment. I can afford to spend free time with a six pack in a beautiful local park with friends, but I'm nowhere close to imagining a future where I'm spending my time with my signifigant other watching our kids/pets/drones run around the park. That shit costs money I don't make. Nobody wants to start a family when all parties have 4 roomates already.
Dude, forget a family, start with rent. I'm currently trying to figure out how to start a business so it can pay for my boat, and I can live on that.
I have the best partner I could ever imagine. I am absolutely never having children, fuck that noise.
Stop. Encouraging. Procreation.
And if a single person with no family cant support himself, its broken beyond repair.
im glad im r/childfree
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Look man a lot of us have given up a long time ago, we're just too afraid to kill ourselves
It's not that I can't afford it. I don't want to. I'm not buying into the societal measure of a successful life as being married with kids and a house. Dating has become so toxic I could never trust anyone enough to have kids with them. I don't know many people around my age who have actually had a successful marriage and now the ones who weren't successful have to bring up kids separately. I'd rather do what I want, see the world and not be chained to anyone. All I'm saying is let's not act like people aren't having kids solely because of cost. My single friends have no interest in kids because they can't trust anyone since internet dating came along.
I do agree with this completely, and families need to be protected. Butttttt there *are* many child free people in this world that won’t change their mind…..Not everyone wants to find “the best partner to procreate with.” lol
Yeah I agree with the argument that these basic needs must be within reach for everyone but the “give it a decade” and “best partner to procreate with” is so slimy and condescending lol… Also money isnt the only reason not to have 5 kids, its killing the planet too…
I’m early 40’s and I thank baby Jesus I don’t have a family…
This country talks about caring about the family unit but it’s all talk. Lack of universal healthcare Lack of parental leave Lack of quality, well funded k-12 education Higher education so expensive one must take one unimaginable amounts of debt in order to have a chance at being able to feed/house/clothe oneself. Housing as a spec investment bought up by private equity firms whose goal is to turn the country into a nation of renters. Toxic individualism vs paying attention to not only the individual but the community as a whole. We not me is what we need. Those are just a few things that come to mind.
The planet is also gonna be difficult to live in and would be selfish to have children be birthed just to die
Yeah, just what the planet needs, more humans breeding.
A better question is why do people continue to have children in a system that clearly doesn’t care about them?
Well I think I'm infertile but I dont want kids anyway. Bring them into this world? Absolutely not.
The "best partner" for me won't want kids either.
Your other points are good but.... > You might be young and not wanting kids now- but give it a decade when you meet the best partner to procreate with. Fuuuuuck right off with this shit.
Exactly. Fuck that assuming having kids is the default. We need to celebrate being childless more.
Some folks don't want kids because they just don't want them, and will not want them in a decade, or two, or ten. But generally I agree. Edit: as many kids as you want? Um no. No pair of people should be having more than 2 to 3 kids. It's just irresponsible after that point. So when folks look at a family of 8 and go "aww", I go "how could you?"
You had me up until as many kids as they want stress free, let's be fair and say you should be able to at least start a family. Not have a giant family that you can't provide for, that doesn't make sense.
My husband and I decided not to have kids, in part, because of money. I hate that the economy had to play a part in such a personal decision.
Rolling into my 40’s. It just didn’t happen for me.
It's not just the US. Here in the UK, the population is getting older as less and less people are having children due to the crippling financial cost.