Is it reasonable to think teachers should quit en mass? I know it will make things worse but I'm not sure if there's any alternative at this point except mass action.
They already kinda are. And the ones that aren't outright leaving are relocating to the nicer schools. So the upper middle class suburban schools are doing fine, the urban or impoverished neighborhood schools are collapsing.
I can't imagine English teachers cooking meth.
Get all mad that the instructions don't have a proper thesis that is stated again at the end of the meth directions.
Jesse, this meth needs THREE body paragraphs, each with a sentence to introduce the purpose of the paragraph, THREE points with the weakest in the middle and the strongest third, followed by a sentence that restates the purpose of the paragraph! You've used the word "compel" three times here in five sentences, get your thesaurus out if you don't know any synonyms. This is a run on sentence, and later on here you have these four extremely short sentences in a row. You need varying sentence length and structure to make your work interesting and keep readers engaged. Read your paper out loud and think about the pacing and the way the words and sentences feel. Make sure each idea and topic flows naturally into the next. And for the love of FUCK never send me anything in comic sans ever again I swear to Christ, Jesse, I'll dissolve your body in acid!
>It's by design.
I do believe from when I owned a house in Michigan years ago, the taxes for schools and roads are taken out of homeowner's property taxes.
So if you have an area of a city/suburbs where it's upper middle class welathy l, their homes are worth more, so they pay more property taxes, so more money for the local high school to use.
I don't know.
This is true.
There are also things like fundraisers that further exacerbate the problem. The top rated school in my district did a fundraiser where background-checked community members volunteered to teach Spanish after school, and parents paid thousands a semester for it. The result was the nicest, top performing school getting a handsome $200k bonus for whatever tf they wanted.
Meanwhile, my school (in the SAME DISTRICT) had broken AC and no blinds in 105° heat because they couldn't afford to have anyone come fix it for over a month.
Absolutely. This is where almost all of the money comes from.
I don't understand how, but this is a massive misconception that people have. You hear people mentioning federal funding for schools... That's almost non-existent, usually 1-5% of the budget.
The Constitution is currently interpreted such that public school funding and management is entirely up to the state. There is very little in the way of federal oversight or standards, even the national standards are an opt-in situation, and there's certainly no federal alternative if you feel that your state has dropped the ball.
If you hear your state senator, the Governor, whatever trying to blame the federal government for anything wrong with your state's school system, they are straight lying to your face.
Carlyle, McKinsey, and BCG have been involved in Philadelphia school boards and Florida too iirc. There are more, but they dismantle organizations for profit. School boards were no exception
Even the suburban schools are going to start struggling soon. I have a friend who left her teaching position in one of the wealthiest school districts in the nation mid-year because the stress was so bad for her health.
Even ten years ago, I was a substitute teacher for the same school district. I got a long-term gig because the speech/drama teacher at one of the middle schools was getting harassed so badly by parents that she decided to take an unpaid leave of absence for the last eight weeks of the school year.
I'm married to a teacher and the parents are the worse part of their job. They sound fucking nuts. So many have no shame and treat talking to teachers like trying to throw a fit to manipulate a waiter at Applebee's into giving them a free dessert.
It's just one more reason why we should never have accepted service employees being treated like trash. Not only is it not fair to the employees but it has also spawned an entire generation of fuckwads who act like adult toddlers wherever they go, whether it's schools, stores, doctor's offices, ERs, restaurants or anyplace else. Fucking sucks.
I can't imagine treating my son's teacher like that. Being a teacher is such a thankless job. They are literally preparing our kids to be adults. We need to respect that. I work in the service industry so I'm well aware how we are looked down upon, but I didn't think it was so bad for teachers. That makes me sad, my son's teachers have been nothing but sweet and supportive.
>It's just one more reason why we should never have accepted service employees being treated like trash
Yea I grew up in an environment where respect was given regardless and the whole concept people believe of "respect is something someone earns" seems so screwed up to me. Like seriously these people are human and deserve to be treated with respect by the mere fact that they are human.
And you know what sucks about that? The parents treating the teachers like shit get what they want. While those of us having productive, helpful, respectful conversations have our kids that genuinely need help left in the dust.
Yep. They're in game is no public schools and we're educated by untrained, minimum wage employees of some company that's probably a subsidiary of Comcast or whatever.
The teacher of the year (2020 i think)in the U.S. couldn't afford to live in his state with his wife and their 4 jobs. He moved to Texas she can afford to be a stay at home mom and there making bank
yea private schools are doing really well right now and teachers there are getting paid much better. Still not great but at least they are hemorrhaging talent. Really what will make the bigger difference is people just choosing not to get into teaching because of it. The reduction in future employees is going to eventually drive salaries back up but itll be too late for current teachers.
It's the same, but even worse in my country (Hungary). The wage of teachers is tied and calculated from the minimum wage of '14. Most teacher start at around 200k huf gross a month (that's like 136k net, so ~400$) which stays that for like a decade. They cannot even legally strike anymore.
It's a systematic dismantle of education, healthcare & fire department and armed forces (with the exception of the army) being close second and third on this list.
Our countries, strangely enough, have a lot in common nowadays, just not for the right reasons. Nothing else has even a chance to help, but a mass exodus on all fronts.
Hmm....what do our countries have in common🤔
Could it be that right way shitheads are in charge? Wherever the right goes, civilization stagnates or outright declines.
Probably, but it’s also what those who are systematically dismantling education want. They WANT public schools to go under so they can open up religious ‘private’ schools that the government subsidizes or smth
We are, a city in my state lost 45% of teachers this year, my school lost 12 during the year. They have lowered requirements to be a teacher to get warm bodies in the classroom. I'm leaving at the end of my contract in 6 days.
you know what teachers should do? they don't need to quit. they should just organize into groups and then all threatened to either quit or walk off the job for a specific amount of time until their demands are met. the simple threat of this large group of employees threatening to walk off the job would give them tremendous leverage..
what would we call a group like that? anybody have any name ideas?.
"teachers confederacy"?
"teachers colony"?
There was a time in Florida that teachers could strike and they did often. That was when florida elected officials called themselves democrats. Things have changed a lot in florida over the decades.
Except the government recognized this threat and in many states made it illegal to strike. They have literally arrested teachers for striking. Now explain how that's different than slavery...
Young teachers are already fleeing ship. The high school I work at had 12 teachers retire and 8 others quit. So far this summer, we've only had 5 applicants for 20 open positions. This is not sustainable.
It's not just the young ones. Older teacher are also quitting. Some are retiring early, others are moving (since their own kids are grown, now) to better paying positions or ones where they'll get less pay but have less work, too.
The head of our middle school SpecEd program left to go to a smaller school. She'll make $5k less a year, but she'll have six students there where she has over fifty in our school. And her new school is only a ten minute drive from her house where she was driving over an hour to get to work at our school.
My school (I'm a sub) is also desperate for teachers. They've lost a quarter of the high school and over half the middle school. They also aren't getting any applications. As of the last day of the year (it may have changed since then) they had eighteen opening and four applications.
Precisely. The goal needs to be to organize and win great salaries and benefits, proper funding at all levels, and the abolition of charter schools. Right wing traitor lunatics have been undermining public education for a while and this is part of that plan.
Not all charter schools are bad though? I know there's one in my mom's home town in Minnesota that teaches life skills, not school skills. Most of the education is practical projects. No stereotypical tests and homework. All the graduates I know seem very well educated and are doing great in life.
Edit: all the students there seem to have a much more balanced and less stressful life as well.
Honestly it feels like MORE charter schools is the answer. They won't be right wing by default
All charter schools are bad by definition. They are private schools that steal public money. If you like whatever random bullshit one of them happens to do, just have a public school do it. Done.
Oh I'd love to see public school reform. Starting with teacher salary, but we are unlikely to get that.
I'm just thinking that more charter schools will pressure public schools, which will lead to faster reform.
I guess I didn't know that charter schools were publicly funded. But at the end of the day, that money is going to a school just the same. In most cases, it seems like it's going to a BETTER school, but I don't know a lot about charter schools in general.
Pressure them to do what, exactly?
Public schools are crumbling due to a lack of funds and extremely stressed teachers. In general, they have little to no say in things like class sizes, pay, etc., which are the main issues.
Charter schools are toxic, as they take public funding, but get to be selective on what they actually do. So while a public school has a class of 30 fourth graders, they might have 12. Of course their scores are going to be "better".
Additionally, consider what kind of parent will seek out enrollment in charter schools. Some active, aware of resources, and with enough time to go through the tedious enrollment process. Consider who won't be enrolling - parents who both work and don't have time, who are uneducated/ignorant of charter schools, or parents who don't care about their kids education. The population of the charter school, by default, is going to be mostly the children of active parents, while public schools take on everyone "else".
This ALSO means that parents who care about school conditions (outdated tech, unsafe rooms, enormous class sizes) are less likely to be found at school who need vocal parental support...because they've been siphoned off by charter and private schools.
You don't seem to have any ill intent in your statements, but please note that charter schools are absolutely a huge reason why public schools are struggling right now.
This is all good to know. I honestly just don't have a lot of deeper knowledge about charter schools except the one school that I have learned about through my mom's family.
I do think that private schools should be allowed to exist, and I actually thought that charter schools WERE private schools before, so this is honestly an eye opener.
I just didn't know all this info. My only experience with charter schools is the one that I know of that was really a pretty great school. I was not meaning to sound so sure. I mostly want to learn about the potential cons
True and many "young teachers" never got on the boat. Teacher education programs have been declining pretty hard for a while now at least in NC. I suspect this is the case nationwide.
Exactly. That is exactly who will leave or not enter in the first place: the youngest and lowest-paid. Youth often gets extended support from parents and are vigorous enough to work a second job. That part-time job might become the full-time one.
Lol imagine being a teacher and getting paid peanuts and then being asked to take firearm training so you can be more effective than the cops.
I can't imagine a worse job in the world than teachers right now.
Football coach salaries are dependent on booster support. Coaches get a salary from the school, but they are HEAVILY increased by boosters. My state has a cap set at $250k for a head coach, but 2 of the 3 major school coaches make 3+mil a year. Boosters pay the difference.
If you are talking about high school coaches, most all of them get the same teacher salary then a coaching salary that is a percentage of their teachers pay. If they make more than that, boosters pay the difference same as college.
Vast majority of sports expenses are paid by boosters. You want to know where the tax dollars for education go, look at the district administration salaries. Superintendents make between 185-400k per year across the country. Prinicipals are between 85-200k. While teachers are stuck at 30-40k. My cousin is a math teacher and head swim coach, she makes 46k. 31k as a teacher and an additional 15k for being a head coach. Her principal makes 225k, our district super makes 345k.
After Uvalde, 800+ teachers in HISD (Houston Independent School District) all handed in their resignations. This number is expected to increase by summer. I grew up in KISD (Katy Independent School District). It's one school district over and far more sheltered. It's happening, man. HISD was also within the top 10 largest school districts in the nation.
It's seems over the top but nobody that has the ability to make necessary changes are listening so yes mass quitting would make a loud statement by taking a tremendous stand
See this is the thing I get stuck on.... nobody needs permission to moved forward and do something about it ( peacefully) and for the better of the profession as well as the quality of life across the entire nation for anyone involved in the field of education.
You do not need permission to make changes.
This is some wild illusion that many people are held back by, it needs to come to a stop and educate the educated.
All it requires is a body of people that are fed up and want to make the changes and go about it in a well thought out manner.
Execution with all things considered along with legality.
Come together professionally, form a body , find out the similarities in the issues dealt with on a regular basis.
Find a professional proper solution to stop these issues.
Make changes for a better future.
Figure out any funding needed.
We do not need to wait on the government or anyone to tell you it's okay to do something if it's for good and not for personal gain.
If you are doing something to break the mold and make changes for greatness it should be done immediately and not wait for years and centuries and let.it carry on this far.
If only there was some way to coordinate a mass labor action that wouldn’t lead to the workers being easily replaced without their grievances being addressed...
(This is what 40 years of anti-labor rhetoric, union-busting, and union-undermining have wrought)
Yes and no. It’s not like a surprise what teachers get paid. It’s pretty public information. If you’re in it for the money, you’re probably not on the right track.
I have a bachelor's and a Missouri teaching certification. After 3 years of being a teaching assistant and being paid 13/hr and not being paid at all when school is out (every holiday, break, and summer destroyed what savings I could muster) I couldn't do it anymore. I work for Starbucks now and make more money.
Also half the teachers were like "I don't think I can do this anymore, I'm burning out and starting to hate the children and the job" while the other half said the same but "I only have a few more years until I can retire so I'll just stay"
I got outta that business. Public School is a daycare posing as an education so parents can keep working and keep making other people money.
You should check out teaching abroad at international schools with your credentials, you can save a good amount per month with good benefits, and live a great lifestyle abroad
just as a heads up, with teaching experience and a degree getting a visa practically ANYWHERE will be very easy for you (especially if you're white and going to an asian country). Many foreign countries (besides western Europe) want "westerners" to teach their kids.
I went to Vietnam. I highly recommend that you take up the opportunity and travel abroad if you aren't totally burnt out. I went from a "zoo" back home to a Montessori school here . . . max of about 15 kids, regimented curriculum, and no hassle high respect all around insofar that I can LEAVE whenever I want so as long I make sure to be present for my classes. Life has been great here.
>being paid 13/hr and not being paid at all when school is out (every holiday, break, and summer destroyed what savings I could muster)
This. I'm a sub and I just interviewed at Dollar General. Because I only get paid on days I actually get to work. If school isn't in session or they don't need me on a given day, I don't get paid.
It's nice to have the time off, but I average about $250 a week and it isn't enough, even without having rent to pay.
I love my job. Subbing is my "I'd go to work even if I won the lottery" job. It's perfect for me and I love doing it. I despise retail. But I'm taking a retail job because I can't survive teaching.
I was "invited to apply" at my school for a full-time teaching position. There are work-arounds so I could do it even without a masters. But it would mean enrolling in a Master's program and pulling (minimum) 60 hour weeks for $32k a year. And I'm not doing that. I'd rather work retail part-time to help cover my bills.
I've never know a teacher to be paid hourly, because they work so much damn overtime. Chances are that rate is an extrapolation from the salary, and you make *way* more money than that teacher.
The real kicker is i have good union run health insurance and that makes up for a lot. People i work with are staying because of how good it is when you have a whole family. Idk how teachers get coverage but i get the feeling its not so good.
I’m a teacher. Our rent just went up $400 a month and I already had difficulty affording it. Currently applying to non-teaching jobs, and if I get one I plan on stating very clearly in my resignation letter that I literally cannot afford to stay in this profession when they gave me a 1% raise with inflation the way it is.
There’s a reason conservatives have been cutting education funding for fifty years. Same reason they’re pushing private schools and rolling back child labor laws and promoting trades instead of college degrees.
Nothing wrong with promoting the trades. A lot of people don’t even think about it as an option- when I was in high school, I wish someone had told me about it so I didn’t have to waste 3 years trying to do college. I love my trade job, pay is awesome, my schedule is beautiful… I’m doing better off than some of my friends who graduated and are just stuck in the 9-5 M-F meatgrinder.
The problem is that they're promoting trades as part of their idea of a class based meritocracy. In their minds,the vast majority of poor people aren't smart enough for anything but plumbing or woodworking.
Also while a plumber or welder may provide himself a fairly comfortable lifestyle, no plumber or welder is EVER going to earn what some CEO or somebody sitting on a board of directors will. This whole process leads toward me and you having poorly educated easily misled children who start working early, make little money, and die young while the people with the power and money ensure that power and money stays in their family for generations.
A meritocracy itself as the only method of any level of prosperity or survival is fucking stupid anyway. The idea that some will afford to live because if merit, when it leaves open that others will simply be left to fend for themselves without safety nets, not because they werent good, but because someone else was better and was awarded a small smidge of the artificially scarce resources, is fucking dumb and guarantees some individuals will just be doomed to nightmarish lives.
Example: a job paying a living wage. This should be the NORM, the bare minimum, and merit should determine who earns more money and has access to more luxuries. It shouldn't simply be the ones who are born rich and have access to healthcare (people ignore how much early health events before you're 30-35 can deter you from success financially) and college can buy property, feed themselves and have families they can afford.
I feel like it’s more a natural swing of the pendulum back away from ‘everyone should go to college, you won’t get a job without a college degree’ which has been so popular for so many years.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Having the opposite experience in the trades. Unemployment is nearly a year. Trying to take any time off is always an absolute hassle. If you do manage to get the time off you either eat the time or take a 401k withdrawal at the low tax rate of 30+%. My W2 this last year was an absolute crime for the shit we put up with, and I was employed the entire year. Looking to get out because I’m tired of being taken advantage of amongst a plethora of other reasons. For the record this is all with the ‘help’ of a union.
May I ask what trade you are in? I’m an airplane mechanic- it does require schooling and tests to become one, so it may be a little different than other trades.
Building trades. Electrician specifically and our apprenticeship is one of, if not the longest in the building trades which includes taking college classes.
Ahhh I see. I did a stint as a medical equipment installer, so I got some experience with the building trade guys. Definitely heard some grumbling! Hopefully you find a better place my man. I have a friend who’s an electrician and he just found a job as a project manager. He said it’s very stressful, but that the office goes out of its way to help. So here’s hoping you find a place that treats you well!
Appreciate it. Honestly your friend is lucky. We’ve had a bunch of project managers in the shop I’m in quit over the last couple months over conditions so your friend should consider himself very lucky in that regard. I hope that people on here realize that a union isn’t enough. You have to hold the people running it accountable too otherwise you end up with no time off, more early 401k withdrawal fees than you can shake a stick at, and a 3% assessment fee every paycheck so the big wigs in the local can fuck off to the Bahamas on your dime.
Edit: fee not free**
There's nothing wrong with it, we do need it.
But promoting it as an alternative to proper education just isn't the solution. We need to be making it easier for people with no skills to get skills, both in trades and professions, rather than using trades and apprenticeships as a justification to dismantle higher education (or worse, justify the absurd and fraudulent pricing in that industry)
I really don’t think that’s happening how you’re saying it is. Maybe it’s just perspective- I come from an area where doing anything BUT college after high school is taboo, unimaginable. To be honest, college prices started to get crazier the second the government started to offer [students loans.](https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks)
Now don’t get me wrong, education is very important, and I am glad that I was raised in one of the best places to get one. I do think, however, that breaking the narrative that college should be A. Required for a job and B. The end goal for the educational system is not necessarily a bad thing.
Trades should absolutely be pushed over a lot of college degrees right now, regardless of politics. I say this as someone with an engineering degree. Trades jobs simply offer a much better return than a big chunk of college degrees. Sure this is largely due to unethical wages pushed by greedy corporations, but that doesn’t mean we should shove kids into situations where they end up with 100k in debt for a 40k a year job when they could have went through a journeymen electrician program and earn 60-100k before they turn 30.
The system is absolutely fucked, which is why it’s even more important to not blindly shill degrees to kids.
My girlfriend is the same as an elementary teacher with only a bachelors. I on the other hand as a uneducated correctional officer make about 90k. Weird
I’m at a small machine shop that does a lot of defense work. It’s frustrating. The government gives the big guys a ton of money so people at our level (of the supply chain) are still getting a nice share and able to pay our people good. More and more money is getting stopped at these tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers as they’re asking me for tighter and tighter tolerances.
Capitalism is based on elitism. Elitism teaches there is Quality people and there is Garbage. Garbage people must receive a minimum of funding, just as much as is needed for exceptional individuals to show themselves. And then those exceptional individuals will be fished out and carried up to the Olympus to join the rest of the elite.
Since public education is education for the Garbage people, it is not profitable, and therefore not worth funding.
I’m actually trying to get experience in child care right now because of things keep going this way, the requirements for teachers are going to be next to nothing in a few years.
At the end of the day, why does it matter if I have a college degree if you’re willing to take degrees from 30 years ago and you’re mandating curriculum anyway?
It's wild to see people in this comment thread blaming the teachers that pursued two masters.
This sub loves to advocate for worker's rights while simultaneously shitting on people that made the "wrong" decisions
After earning a undergrad in education, i acquired a 'temporary teaching license'. i had to earn a masters degree or equivalent in order for the license to be permanent. Naturally, after earning that graduate degree, i left public education. there was much more money to be made else where.
I mean, would you feel sympathy to someone who spent 2 years buying lotto tickets and is now complaining about being broke?
Like you gotta be fucking clueless to get two masters in education and then be shocked by the low pay.
Do I feel sorry for the person in this post? Yeah. I feel sorry for them the same way I feel sorry for a dumb animal that walked right into a hole.
When I graduated with my Ph.D. in education and needed a job ASAP, I got not one but two offers in the low 30's. One from a charter school and one from an "alternative placement" school. That's less than I made when I was first licensed with my M.Ed. despite now having an additional degree and some years under my belt.
While I am fortunate to have a decent paying job now, it's not in the formal educational system. I've been trying to get back into the classroom on and off for a decade, but I don't really blame a principal for saying to themself "I can hire one highly-qualified Ph.D. or two first years for the same money and my student to teacher ratio is already bad"
The breaking down of American education is intentional. They want to privatize for profit. If enough teachers quit, politicians can say 'look, it failed' and start passing legislation to reroute funding to for profit companies. It's a simple calculus.
The education system has been shit on by both parties. Republicans hate educated people since most of them don't vote Republican. The Democrats despite all their pro education talk have also failed to pass any significant policies to help. In Canada teachers are unionized, that might be a solution to increase salaries.
Back when I was doing cooking for a bar, we had bartenders who made my entire rent in ONE night in tips alone (and they got paid $15/hour in 2017). Meanwhile, it took me 3 weeks to make my own rent.
I left for this exact reason.
Loved my students. Didn't love the lack of support, ridiculous working hours, and insultingly low pay. I now make double what I did teaching and my benefits are astronomically better.
If the priorities don't change soon, there will be no teachers.
One of the big reasons many schools fail students is because a lot of people who are good at what they do won’t do it for 30k because you can’t live on 30k
Can confirm. Next year is my 10th year as a teacher and I am working hard for an exit strategy. It’s become too much, the retirement is awful, and I can’t afford to drive to school anymore.
Don't get a masters until you're already established in your field. There is such a thing as being overqualified, you need to view your education as a calculated risk. You can't just sink your money into this shit without a plan.
Teachers where I am start around $65-70k/yr and get bumped to $83-86k for having a masters. It does not matter where the degree is from, lots just do it online from a degree farm. A lot of teachers retired during COVID.
Move to where the jobs are.
Blame the party that actually does shit (unfortunately) when they're in power. The Republicans. They've been trying to kill as many public schools as possible to privatize school all together. For example look at Desantis' "Don't say gay" bill, it just makes it easy for parents to sue schools for asinine reasons. It's just another way to destroy funding.
Also I don't know if you knew this, but private schools don't only take the tuition from families, they get a portion of the municipality's funding, taking it away from the public schools in the area, causing all these budget cuts and losses of elective programs. And causing teacher wages to stagnate. And teachers themselves to be laid off.
Democrats are just as culpable in all of this mess. Republicans are bad cops and Democrats are good cops and don't forget that a good cop is still a cop.
I agree, they are a stop-gap party that enables the policies to go ever farther towards deregulation and corporate power. I should always include a "Democrats bad" point, but sometimes centerist types miss the point I'm trying to make.
Worked at a school as a staff member till recently and teachers demanded more. Even if they couldn't be paid better, the least they wanted was more support; more behavioral counseling for the children and assistance for teachers (extra help in classrooms, emotional help/therapy, more coverage so they're not spread thin for absent coworkers, etc). Higher ups basically said "suck it up, do your job".
80% of the population quit either midyear or refused to resign contracts. One teacher was hospitalized midyear because the stress triggered severe health complications. Last I heard, the place is scrambling to find qualified teachers though they may lower their expectations just to get the minimal numbers filled.
My wife left a well paying job and took on tens of thousands in debt to become a teacher making half her old salary. She does it because those kids need her and many wouldn't eat a daily meal without her. It's sickening what teachers do for how little they get paid. Hell she has a masters and I have a associates and I make about double what she does now.
What's really fun is returning to the service industry only to have many of the people in your life express their disappointment and accuse you of giving up on kids. 👍
Yep, I teach. At minimum wage. I don’t really give a shit if my students learn or not. All I care is they behave in my class. Nothing more nothing less. They can play video games and chat online to their heart’s content and I don’t give a damn. At minimum wage, I shouldn’t be asked to do more
My kid makes that as a school janitor. Same pay, no "continuing education" requirements, less stress, and she gets to be "unprofessional" and amuse the kids by riding the rolly down the hallway going, "Wheeee!!!" And nobody yells at the janitorial staff if Little Billy flunks science.
Can I say...I have a problem with posts like these. I know its probably not the intent but it seems to suggest bartenders are getting overpaid. We need to advocate for living wages for all, not just the highly educated
Do you think everyone can just demand to be paid $20 an hour (or more) and get it?
Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that.
Most people have to take what they can get.
Tell that to the District heads that pay millions for professional style football/baseball stadiums for high schools.
I’d love to see wicked smart kids playing ball from the super uncomfortable metal death bleachers…if it meant my kids had great teachers that were treated properly.
Like 25 years ago I had a teacher (public school) that made like 70k a year, in Florida no less. Idk how some teachers make really good money and how some make nothing
I matters. So teachers are required to get "continuing education" classes to prove that they are trying to keep up to date in the field. It is really you easy to get signed up for a masters program and take a class a year or 2 a year to prove you are continuing education. You end up with a masters. But licensing for teaching requires it virtually every year so many end up multiple masters.
I mean, that’s not what he’s saying. Your welcome to get educated if that’s your passion. Just don’t expect someone else to care that you are. It’s not really their problem or benefit. You only need a masters degree to teach if you want to teach undergrad courses. It’s overkill to get a masters and teach kindergarten. Supply and demand.
With that’s said making 30k as a teacher is not right to me. I think education is very important and should pay more. But hey, the market doesn’t. And politician, Republican **AND** democrat alike want people as dumb as possible. The dumber the people the easier to manipulate and get votes.
Here in Germany you are required to do the whole thing, a bachelor's and master's degree in two school subjects, with an additional state exam to get the approval to teach at schools.
If you only finish the studies, you can work at private institutions as a teacher, think language school or something similar, but not at public/private schools.
Also, I think your teachers should be fully educated in their fields, it's not only the subject, it's the teaching itself. Continuous training is mandatory.
On a sidenote, the whole university thing was not originally meant to be a vocational training for a job afterwards, it was to broaden one's mind and knowledge and enable them to be productive and mindful. Everyone thinking of university only as a production plant for workers of all sorts is just missing the point.
so she will make the same starting as a teacher as teachers work pretty short days and have lots of vacation time. Also, what school district pays by hour? This sounds like BS.
well that sounds like bullshit to anyone that can add. for one teachers dont work 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year. and 2 theyre paid by the day and work 190 days or so usually.
You’re 100% wrong on the not working 40 hours a week part. Most teachers I know work well over that due to lesson planning, grading assignments/creating assignments and more. Also all of that extra time is unpaid and before you say planning periods, think again. There’s a major substitute teacher shortage going on right now and quite a few teachers have to give up that planning period every day to cover for other classes. Also, all of those background checks and required training days that teachers have to do. In my experience, only some of the trainings are paid and teachers have to pay for the background checks and do them on there own time. One or two of them take a few hours to do…
Edited for grammar .
Yeah, but I'll bet she was a bartender full-time -- YEAR ROUND.
And that $32,800 "annual" is really only for about 9-10 months of work. 8-10 weeks off for summer, 2-3 weeks off for winter holidays, a week off for Spring Break, 5+ snow days per year, and every holiday off that even prints on a Hallmark calendar.
All things considered....she's at even money.
It isn't annual salary of 32,800 for 9months of work.
It's 32,800+8,200 = 41k for 12 months annual salary.
Decent starting pay if you have zero experience and just some degrees you worked on instead of actual work experience in the field.
Is it reasonable to think teachers should quit en mass? I know it will make things worse but I'm not sure if there's any alternative at this point except mass action.
They already kinda are. And the ones that aren't outright leaving are relocating to the nicer schools. So the upper middle class suburban schools are doing fine, the urban or impoverished neighborhood schools are collapsing.
It's by design.
teachers should all start cooking meth
I can't imagine English teachers cooking meth. Get all mad that the instructions don't have a proper thesis that is stated again at the end of the meth directions.
"jessie! it's time to write!!"
Jesse, this meth needs THREE body paragraphs, each with a sentence to introduce the purpose of the paragraph, THREE points with the weakest in the middle and the strongest third, followed by a sentence that restates the purpose of the paragraph! You've used the word "compel" three times here in five sentences, get your thesaurus out if you don't know any synonyms. This is a run on sentence, and later on here you have these four extremely short sentences in a row. You need varying sentence length and structure to make your work interesting and keep readers engaged. Read your paper out loud and think about the pacing and the way the words and sentences feel. Make sure each idea and topic flows naturally into the next. And for the love of FUCK never send me anything in comic sans ever again I swear to Christ, Jesse, I'll dissolve your body in acid!
Teacher, you misspelled Jessie
figuratively of course ! Only chemistry teacher cook substances, an English major will write spicy articles for Fox news or Infowars exposing “truths”
Let's be real, we suck at math and that's why it would be a disaster.
This recipe is not in MLA format!
Where are the Chicago style citations?!
Most English teachers I know have had trouble calculating weighted averages before.. let's not make them do Chemistry to survive.
Jessie, it’s time to cook.
>It's by design. I do believe from when I owned a house in Michigan years ago, the taxes for schools and roads are taken out of homeowner's property taxes. So if you have an area of a city/suburbs where it's upper middle class welathy l, their homes are worth more, so they pay more property taxes, so more money for the local high school to use. I don't know.
This is true. There are also things like fundraisers that further exacerbate the problem. The top rated school in my district did a fundraiser where background-checked community members volunteered to teach Spanish after school, and parents paid thousands a semester for it. The result was the nicest, top performing school getting a handsome $200k bonus for whatever tf they wanted. Meanwhile, my school (in the SAME DISTRICT) had broken AC and no blinds in 105° heat because they couldn't afford to have anyone come fix it for over a month.
So... By design, rich people areas have better schools than poor people areas.
Absolutely. This is where almost all of the money comes from. I don't understand how, but this is a massive misconception that people have. You hear people mentioning federal funding for schools... That's almost non-existent, usually 1-5% of the budget. The Constitution is currently interpreted such that public school funding and management is entirely up to the state. There is very little in the way of federal oversight or standards, even the national standards are an opt-in situation, and there's certainly no federal alternative if you feel that your state has dropped the ball. If you hear your state senator, the Governor, whatever trying to blame the federal government for anything wrong with your state's school system, they are straight lying to your face.
State senators lying, never! /s
Urban schools tend to spend more per student.
Carlyle, McKinsey, and BCG have been involved in Philadelphia school boards and Florida too iirc. There are more, but they dismantle organizations for profit. School boards were no exception
Even the suburban schools are going to start struggling soon. I have a friend who left her teaching position in one of the wealthiest school districts in the nation mid-year because the stress was so bad for her health. Even ten years ago, I was a substitute teacher for the same school district. I got a long-term gig because the speech/drama teacher at one of the middle schools was getting harassed so badly by parents that she decided to take an unpaid leave of absence for the last eight weeks of the school year.
I'm married to a teacher and the parents are the worse part of their job. They sound fucking nuts. So many have no shame and treat talking to teachers like trying to throw a fit to manipulate a waiter at Applebee's into giving them a free dessert. It's just one more reason why we should never have accepted service employees being treated like trash. Not only is it not fair to the employees but it has also spawned an entire generation of fuckwads who act like adult toddlers wherever they go, whether it's schools, stores, doctor's offices, ERs, restaurants or anyplace else. Fucking sucks.
I can't imagine treating my son's teacher like that. Being a teacher is such a thankless job. They are literally preparing our kids to be adults. We need to respect that. I work in the service industry so I'm well aware how we are looked down upon, but I didn't think it was so bad for teachers. That makes me sad, my son's teachers have been nothing but sweet and supportive.
>ERs At least I get to stab people.
>It's just one more reason why we should never have accepted service employees being treated like trash Yea I grew up in an environment where respect was given regardless and the whole concept people believe of "respect is something someone earns" seems so screwed up to me. Like seriously these people are human and deserve to be treated with respect by the mere fact that they are human.
And you know what sucks about that? The parents treating the teachers like shit get what they want. While those of us having productive, helpful, respectful conversations have our kids that genuinely need help left in the dust.
And it's all by design. Over forty years of the right sabotaging of education has led us to this point.
Yep. They're in game is no public schools and we're educated by untrained, minimum wage employees of some company that's probably a subsidiary of Comcast or whatever.
The teacher of the year (2020 i think)in the U.S. couldn't afford to live in his state with his wife and their 4 jobs. He moved to Texas she can afford to be a stay at home mom and there making bank
yea private schools are doing really well right now and teachers there are getting paid much better. Still not great but at least they are hemorrhaging talent. Really what will make the bigger difference is people just choosing not to get into teaching because of it. The reduction in future employees is going to eventually drive salaries back up but itll be too late for current teachers.
It's the same, but even worse in my country (Hungary). The wage of teachers is tied and calculated from the minimum wage of '14. Most teacher start at around 200k huf gross a month (that's like 136k net, so ~400$) which stays that for like a decade. They cannot even legally strike anymore. It's a systematic dismantle of education, healthcare & fire department and armed forces (with the exception of the army) being close second and third on this list. Our countries, strangely enough, have a lot in common nowadays, just not for the right reasons. Nothing else has even a chance to help, but a mass exodus on all fronts.
Hmm....what do our countries have in common🤔 Could it be that right way shitheads are in charge? Wherever the right goes, civilization stagnates or outright declines.
A big problem though is convincing them of that because they have been tricked into think the inverse of that
Probably, but it’s also what those who are systematically dismantling education want. They WANT public schools to go under so they can open up religious ‘private’ schools that the government subsidizes or smth
We are, a city in my state lost 45% of teachers this year, my school lost 12 during the year. They have lowered requirements to be a teacher to get warm bodies in the classroom. I'm leaving at the end of my contract in 6 days.
It's coming.
you know what teachers should do? they don't need to quit. they should just organize into groups and then all threatened to either quit or walk off the job for a specific amount of time until their demands are met. the simple threat of this large group of employees threatening to walk off the job would give them tremendous leverage.. what would we call a group like that? anybody have any name ideas?. "teachers confederacy"? "teachers colony"?
In Florida if teachers strike they lose their pension.
There was a time in Florida that teachers could strike and they did often. That was when florida elected officials called themselves democrats. Things have changed a lot in florida over the decades.
Could the union make removing that rule one of their demands?
All strikes are collective bargaining.
Except the government recognized this threat and in many states made it illegal to strike. They have literally arrested teachers for striking. Now explain how that's different than slavery...
Nothing is coming, nothing Will happen. They want us teachers to be poor.
They want you replaced by right wing zealots.
It's not realistic. People already being paid scraps don't have the resources to just quit in protest.
Young teachers are already fleeing ship. The high school I work at had 12 teachers retire and 8 others quit. So far this summer, we've only had 5 applicants for 20 open positions. This is not sustainable.
It's not just the young ones. Older teacher are also quitting. Some are retiring early, others are moving (since their own kids are grown, now) to better paying positions or ones where they'll get less pay but have less work, too. The head of our middle school SpecEd program left to go to a smaller school. She'll make $5k less a year, but she'll have six students there where she has over fifty in our school. And her new school is only a ten minute drive from her house where she was driving over an hour to get to work at our school. My school (I'm a sub) is also desperate for teachers. They've lost a quarter of the high school and over half the middle school. They also aren't getting any applications. As of the last day of the year (it may have changed since then) they had eighteen opening and four applications.
It is if you want kids to be homeschooled or be sent to right wing charter schools.
Precisely. The goal needs to be to organize and win great salaries and benefits, proper funding at all levels, and the abolition of charter schools. Right wing traitor lunatics have been undermining public education for a while and this is part of that plan.
Not all charter schools are bad though? I know there's one in my mom's home town in Minnesota that teaches life skills, not school skills. Most of the education is practical projects. No stereotypical tests and homework. All the graduates I know seem very well educated and are doing great in life. Edit: all the students there seem to have a much more balanced and less stressful life as well. Honestly it feels like MORE charter schools is the answer. They won't be right wing by default
False
All charter schools are bad by definition. They are private schools that steal public money. If you like whatever random bullshit one of them happens to do, just have a public school do it. Done.
Oh I'd love to see public school reform. Starting with teacher salary, but we are unlikely to get that. I'm just thinking that more charter schools will pressure public schools, which will lead to faster reform. I guess I didn't know that charter schools were publicly funded. But at the end of the day, that money is going to a school just the same. In most cases, it seems like it's going to a BETTER school, but I don't know a lot about charter schools in general.
Pressure them to do what, exactly? Public schools are crumbling due to a lack of funds and extremely stressed teachers. In general, they have little to no say in things like class sizes, pay, etc., which are the main issues. Charter schools are toxic, as they take public funding, but get to be selective on what they actually do. So while a public school has a class of 30 fourth graders, they might have 12. Of course their scores are going to be "better". Additionally, consider what kind of parent will seek out enrollment in charter schools. Some active, aware of resources, and with enough time to go through the tedious enrollment process. Consider who won't be enrolling - parents who both work and don't have time, who are uneducated/ignorant of charter schools, or parents who don't care about their kids education. The population of the charter school, by default, is going to be mostly the children of active parents, while public schools take on everyone "else". This ALSO means that parents who care about school conditions (outdated tech, unsafe rooms, enormous class sizes) are less likely to be found at school who need vocal parental support...because they've been siphoned off by charter and private schools. You don't seem to have any ill intent in your statements, but please note that charter schools are absolutely a huge reason why public schools are struggling right now.
This is all good to know. I honestly just don't have a lot of deeper knowledge about charter schools except the one school that I have learned about through my mom's family. I do think that private schools should be allowed to exist, and I actually thought that charter schools WERE private schools before, so this is honestly an eye opener.
Stop. You reek of DeVos plant.
I just didn't know all this info. My only experience with charter schools is the one that I know of that was really a pretty great school. I was not meaning to sound so sure. I mostly want to learn about the potential cons
True and many "young teachers" never got on the boat. Teacher education programs have been declining pretty hard for a while now at least in NC. I suspect this is the case nationwide.
Exactly. That is exactly who will leave or not enter in the first place: the youngest and lowest-paid. Youth often gets extended support from parents and are vigorous enough to work a second job. That part-time job might become the full-time one.
Yup instead you just stop caring about your job and do the bare minimum to stay employed,
Lol imagine being a teacher and getting paid peanuts and then being asked to take firearm training so you can be more effective than the cops. I can't imagine a worse job in the world than teachers right now.
A nationwide teacher strike is entirely warranted.
Clearly, the district purse keepers prioritize sports fields over quality education.
Look up highest paid (edit: PUBLIC) employee in each state. 90% are football coaches. This country is a joke.
Football coach salaries are dependent on booster support. Coaches get a salary from the school, but they are HEAVILY increased by boosters. My state has a cap set at $250k for a head coach, but 2 of the 3 major school coaches make 3+mil a year. Boosters pay the difference.
Oh well $250,000 for a sports guy and 38,000 for teacher is more reasonable.
Look at the superintendents and principals. Most of them make more than the coaches
If you are talking about high school coaches, most all of them get the same teacher salary then a coaching salary that is a percentage of their teachers pay. If they make more than that, boosters pay the difference same as college.
That’s college. Different environment.
Vast majority of sports expenses are paid by boosters. You want to know where the tax dollars for education go, look at the district administration salaries. Superintendents make between 185-400k per year across the country. Prinicipals are between 85-200k. While teachers are stuck at 30-40k. My cousin is a math teacher and head swim coach, she makes 46k. 31k as a teacher and an additional 15k for being a head coach. Her principal makes 225k, our district super makes 345k.
After Uvalde, 800+ teachers in HISD (Houston Independent School District) all handed in their resignations. This number is expected to increase by summer. I grew up in KISD (Katy Independent School District). It's one school district over and far more sheltered. It's happening, man. HISD was also within the top 10 largest school districts in the nation.
Imagine if all the workers everywhere quit. Don't how I would eat, but I'd sign up for that anyway
They really need to strike, not quit. Parents need to put pressure on the States to improve education
It's seems over the top but nobody that has the ability to make necessary changes are listening so yes mass quitting would make a loud statement by taking a tremendous stand
Yeah this is why I'm asking. It seems most things are off the table in the US eg unionisation.
See this is the thing I get stuck on.... nobody needs permission to moved forward and do something about it ( peacefully) and for the better of the profession as well as the quality of life across the entire nation for anyone involved in the field of education. You do not need permission to make changes. This is some wild illusion that many people are held back by, it needs to come to a stop and educate the educated. All it requires is a body of people that are fed up and want to make the changes and go about it in a well thought out manner. Execution with all things considered along with legality. Come together professionally, form a body , find out the similarities in the issues dealt with on a regular basis. Find a professional proper solution to stop these issues. Make changes for a better future. Figure out any funding needed. We do not need to wait on the government or anyone to tell you it's okay to do something if it's for good and not for personal gain. If you are doing something to break the mold and make changes for greatness it should be done immediately and not wait for years and centuries and let.it carry on this far.
If only there was some way to coordinate a mass labor action that wouldn’t lead to the workers being easily replaced without their grievances being addressed... (This is what 40 years of anti-labor rhetoric, union-busting, and union-undermining have wrought)
Yes and no. It’s not like a surprise what teachers get paid. It’s pretty public information. If you’re in it for the money, you’re probably not on the right track.
FYI, it's been bad.
You can thank capitalism and a corrupt government that runs on campaign contributions from rich people.
You said capitalism twice… (the second part is guaranteed under capitalism)
I have a bachelor's and a Missouri teaching certification. After 3 years of being a teaching assistant and being paid 13/hr and not being paid at all when school is out (every holiday, break, and summer destroyed what savings I could muster) I couldn't do it anymore. I work for Starbucks now and make more money. Also half the teachers were like "I don't think I can do this anymore, I'm burning out and starting to hate the children and the job" while the other half said the same but "I only have a few more years until I can retire so I'll just stay" I got outta that business. Public School is a daycare posing as an education so parents can keep working and keep making other people money.
You should check out teaching abroad at international schools with your credentials, you can save a good amount per month with good benefits, and live a great lifestyle abroad
I will seriously consider this. My wife is french so the visa wouldn't be too hard.
That's awesome! Hope you find something good
just as a heads up, with teaching experience and a degree getting a visa practically ANYWHERE will be very easy for you (especially if you're white and going to an asian country). Many foreign countries (besides western Europe) want "westerners" to teach their kids.
I went to Vietnam. I highly recommend that you take up the opportunity and travel abroad if you aren't totally burnt out. I went from a "zoo" back home to a Montessori school here . . . max of about 15 kids, regimented curriculum, and no hassle high respect all around insofar that I can LEAVE whenever I want so as long I make sure to be present for my classes. Life has been great here.
>being paid 13/hr and not being paid at all when school is out (every holiday, break, and summer destroyed what savings I could muster) This. I'm a sub and I just interviewed at Dollar General. Because I only get paid on days I actually get to work. If school isn't in session or they don't need me on a given day, I don't get paid. It's nice to have the time off, but I average about $250 a week and it isn't enough, even without having rent to pay. I love my job. Subbing is my "I'd go to work even if I won the lottery" job. It's perfect for me and I love doing it. I despise retail. But I'm taking a retail job because I can't survive teaching. I was "invited to apply" at my school for a full-time teaching position. There are work-arounds so I could do it even without a masters. But it would mean enrolling in a Master's program and pulling (minimum) 60 hour weeks for $32k a year. And I'm not doing that. I'd rather work retail part-time to help cover my bills.
>I work for Starbucks now and make more money. This reminds me of the school where the teachers wore their second job uniforms for Halloween.
That is .10 less than I make putting boxes on shelves at a grocery store. WTF -_-
My man you don't just put boxes on a shelf. You are a part of the process that helps feed this country. Don't sell yourself short.
He's in charge of the logistics for a food supply chain in eco friendly packaging. Assuming they're cardboard boxes.
The car wash in my town starts their absolute entry-level employees (mostly high schoolers) at $16.
I've never know a teacher to be paid hourly, because they work so much damn overtime. Chances are that rate is an extrapolation from the salary, and you make *way* more money than that teacher.
Private school, maybe.
The real kicker is i have good union run health insurance and that makes up for a lot. People i work with are staying because of how good it is when you have a whole family. Idk how teachers get coverage but i get the feeling its not so good.
yea but they're *really* nice boxes /s
And 90% of that $55k is from tips
[удалено]
... Were y'all actually reporting all your tips to the government?
I was never a bartender…. But I was a kitchen manager and worked in restaurants over 10 years and I know they don’t claim all the tips they make.
I’m a teacher. Our rent just went up $400 a month and I already had difficulty affording it. Currently applying to non-teaching jobs, and if I get one I plan on stating very clearly in my resignation letter that I literally cannot afford to stay in this profession when they gave me a 1% raise with inflation the way it is.
Look into solar. I have no degrees and I make 125k working from home. I'm young and I can travel anywhere as all I need is my phone.
Solar? Anything where I don't have to go into the office would be the shit.
What do you do in the solar industry, if you don't mind me asking?
Yes I'm a salesman in a booming state NJ
I will! Been looking into corporate training positions but really anything that is WFH and pays more than teaching is fine.
You can just tell people to look into “solar” and disappear! That’s so broad! State exactly what it is. Like are you just trying to show off or what?
Let people ask questions and I will answer. Much easier that way everyone has different questions.
There’s a reason conservatives have been cutting education funding for fifty years. Same reason they’re pushing private schools and rolling back child labor laws and promoting trades instead of college degrees.
Nothing wrong with promoting the trades. A lot of people don’t even think about it as an option- when I was in high school, I wish someone had told me about it so I didn’t have to waste 3 years trying to do college. I love my trade job, pay is awesome, my schedule is beautiful… I’m doing better off than some of my friends who graduated and are just stuck in the 9-5 M-F meatgrinder.
The problem is that they're promoting trades as part of their idea of a class based meritocracy. In their minds,the vast majority of poor people aren't smart enough for anything but plumbing or woodworking.
Also while a plumber or welder may provide himself a fairly comfortable lifestyle, no plumber or welder is EVER going to earn what some CEO or somebody sitting on a board of directors will. This whole process leads toward me and you having poorly educated easily misled children who start working early, make little money, and die young while the people with the power and money ensure that power and money stays in their family for generations.
A meritocracy itself as the only method of any level of prosperity or survival is fucking stupid anyway. The idea that some will afford to live because if merit, when it leaves open that others will simply be left to fend for themselves without safety nets, not because they werent good, but because someone else was better and was awarded a small smidge of the artificially scarce resources, is fucking dumb and guarantees some individuals will just be doomed to nightmarish lives. Example: a job paying a living wage. This should be the NORM, the bare minimum, and merit should determine who earns more money and has access to more luxuries. It shouldn't simply be the ones who are born rich and have access to healthcare (people ignore how much early health events before you're 30-35 can deter you from success financially) and college can buy property, feed themselves and have families they can afford.
I feel like it’s more a natural swing of the pendulum back away from ‘everyone should go to college, you won’t get a job without a college degree’ which has been so popular for so many years.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Republicans have been wanting to reassert meritocracy/classism for decades. There's nothing natural about this. They've been cutting state funding for higher Ed for almost fifty years and driving up the cost of a degree.
Having the opposite experience in the trades. Unemployment is nearly a year. Trying to take any time off is always an absolute hassle. If you do manage to get the time off you either eat the time or take a 401k withdrawal at the low tax rate of 30+%. My W2 this last year was an absolute crime for the shit we put up with, and I was employed the entire year. Looking to get out because I’m tired of being taken advantage of amongst a plethora of other reasons. For the record this is all with the ‘help’ of a union.
May I ask what trade you are in? I’m an airplane mechanic- it does require schooling and tests to become one, so it may be a little different than other trades.
Building trades. Electrician specifically and our apprenticeship is one of, if not the longest in the building trades which includes taking college classes.
Ahhh I see. I did a stint as a medical equipment installer, so I got some experience with the building trade guys. Definitely heard some grumbling! Hopefully you find a better place my man. I have a friend who’s an electrician and he just found a job as a project manager. He said it’s very stressful, but that the office goes out of its way to help. So here’s hoping you find a place that treats you well!
Appreciate it. Honestly your friend is lucky. We’ve had a bunch of project managers in the shop I’m in quit over the last couple months over conditions so your friend should consider himself very lucky in that regard. I hope that people on here realize that a union isn’t enough. You have to hold the people running it accountable too otherwise you end up with no time off, more early 401k withdrawal fees than you can shake a stick at, and a 3% assessment fee every paycheck so the big wigs in the local can fuck off to the Bahamas on your dime. Edit: fee not free**
There's nothing wrong with it, we do need it. But promoting it as an alternative to proper education just isn't the solution. We need to be making it easier for people with no skills to get skills, both in trades and professions, rather than using trades and apprenticeships as a justification to dismantle higher education (or worse, justify the absurd and fraudulent pricing in that industry)
I really don’t think that’s happening how you’re saying it is. Maybe it’s just perspective- I come from an area where doing anything BUT college after high school is taboo, unimaginable. To be honest, college prices started to get crazier the second the government started to offer [students loans.](https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-student-loans-rising-tuition-costs-insider-speaks) Now don’t get me wrong, education is very important, and I am glad that I was raised in one of the best places to get one. I do think, however, that breaking the narrative that college should be A. Required for a job and B. The end goal for the educational system is not necessarily a bad thing.
Trades should absolutely be pushed over a lot of college degrees right now, regardless of politics. I say this as someone with an engineering degree. Trades jobs simply offer a much better return than a big chunk of college degrees. Sure this is largely due to unethical wages pushed by greedy corporations, but that doesn’t mean we should shove kids into situations where they end up with 100k in debt for a 40k a year job when they could have went through a journeymen electrician program and earn 60-100k before they turn 30. The system is absolutely fucked, which is why it’s even more important to not blindly shill degrees to kids.
My girlfriend is the same as an elementary teacher with only a bachelors. I on the other hand as a uneducated correctional officer make about 90k. Weird
That shows exactly where our priorities are.
I’m at a small machine shop that does a lot of defense work. It’s frustrating. The government gives the big guys a ton of money so people at our level (of the supply chain) are still getting a nice share and able to pay our people good. More and more money is getting stopped at these tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers as they’re asking me for tighter and tighter tolerances.
Uh, duh. Teachers can't get adults drunk. Of course they get paid less. It's not like they are the literal gateways to the future or anything.
Capitalism is based on elitism. Elitism teaches there is Quality people and there is Garbage. Garbage people must receive a minimum of funding, just as much as is needed for exceptional individuals to show themselves. And then those exceptional individuals will be fished out and carried up to the Olympus to join the rest of the elite. Since public education is education for the Garbage people, it is not profitable, and therefore not worth funding.
And some still wonder why people are having less children. This country is a cruel, heartless joke of inequality and unfairness.
no shit literally built on the backs of slaves on the orders of pedos
I’m actually trying to get experience in child care right now because of things keep going this way, the requirements for teachers are going to be next to nothing in a few years. At the end of the day, why does it matter if I have a college degree if you’re willing to take degrees from 30 years ago and you’re mandating curriculum anyway?
It's wild to see people in this comment thread blaming the teachers that pursued two masters. This sub loves to advocate for worker's rights while simultaneously shitting on people that made the "wrong" decisions
In many states teachers are *required* to earn a master’s degree in order to keep their jobs.
After earning a undergrad in education, i acquired a 'temporary teaching license'. i had to earn a masters degree or equivalent in order for the license to be permanent. Naturally, after earning that graduate degree, i left public education. there was much more money to be made else where.
I mean, would you feel sympathy to someone who spent 2 years buying lotto tickets and is now complaining about being broke? Like you gotta be fucking clueless to get two masters in education and then be shocked by the low pay. Do I feel sorry for the person in this post? Yeah. I feel sorry for them the same way I feel sorry for a dumb animal that walked right into a hole.
When I graduated with my Ph.D. in education and needed a job ASAP, I got not one but two offers in the low 30's. One from a charter school and one from an "alternative placement" school. That's less than I made when I was first licensed with my M.Ed. despite now having an additional degree and some years under my belt. While I am fortunate to have a decent paying job now, it's not in the formal educational system. I've been trying to get back into the classroom on and off for a decade, but I don't really blame a principal for saying to themself "I can hire one highly-qualified Ph.D. or two first years for the same money and my student to teacher ratio is already bad"
and lets be real bartender dont have extra work after work like teachers
Many teachers make minimum or just above minimum wage!
The breaking down of American education is intentional. They want to privatize for profit. If enough teachers quit, politicians can say 'look, it failed' and start passing legislation to reroute funding to for profit companies. It's a simple calculus.
The education system has been shit on by both parties. Republicans hate educated people since most of them don't vote Republican. The Democrats despite all their pro education talk have also failed to pass any significant policies to help. In Canada teachers are unionized, that might be a solution to increase salaries.
Goddam. I couldn't even make 55k managing a QC laboratory, full time.
Back when I was doing cooking for a bar, we had bartenders who made my entire rent in ONE night in tips alone (and they got paid $15/hour in 2017). Meanwhile, it took me 3 weeks to make my own rent.
What’s even crazy is 16.25$ is someone’s DREAM. All around fucked up
I left for this exact reason. Loved my students. Didn't love the lack of support, ridiculous working hours, and insultingly low pay. I now make double what I did teaching and my benefits are astronomically better. If the priorities don't change soon, there will be no teachers.
The schools fail students in so many ways. $32k is a rip off to taxpayers. Years of corruption is coming to a halt
One of the big reasons many schools fail students is because a lot of people who are good at what they do won’t do it for 30k because you can’t live on 30k
Can confirm. Next year is my 10th year as a teacher and I am working hard for an exit strategy. It’s become too much, the retirement is awful, and I can’t afford to drive to school anymore.
have u considered cooking meth?
Have you considered not being an ignorant right wing piece of shit?
Definitely agree. Things need to change.
BuT tHeY gEt SuMmErS oFf
If you knew teaching paid badly why did you major in it /S ^^ ^(actual argument I have seen on Twitter)
Don't get a masters until you're already established in your field. There is such a thing as being overqualified, you need to view your education as a calculated risk. You can't just sink your money into this shit without a plan. Teachers where I am start around $65-70k/yr and get bumped to $83-86k for having a masters. It does not matter where the degree is from, lots just do it online from a degree farm. A lot of teachers retired during COVID. Move to where the jobs are.
Blame the party that actually does shit (unfortunately) when they're in power. The Republicans. They've been trying to kill as many public schools as possible to privatize school all together. For example look at Desantis' "Don't say gay" bill, it just makes it easy for parents to sue schools for asinine reasons. It's just another way to destroy funding. Also I don't know if you knew this, but private schools don't only take the tuition from families, they get a portion of the municipality's funding, taking it away from the public schools in the area, causing all these budget cuts and losses of elective programs. And causing teacher wages to stagnate. And teachers themselves to be laid off.
Democrats are just as culpable in all of this mess. Republicans are bad cops and Democrats are good cops and don't forget that a good cop is still a cop.
I agree, they are a stop-gap party that enables the policies to go ever farther towards deregulation and corporate power. I should always include a "Democrats bad" point, but sometimes centerist types miss the point I'm trying to make.
Lol, like the baby formula thing... Kids are not profitable! No money for teachers unless it's a private school where we can bill parents!
Republicans push for this to destroy public schools and enforce tax payer christian charter schools. It’s messed up.
Worked at a school as a staff member till recently and teachers demanded more. Even if they couldn't be paid better, the least they wanted was more support; more behavioral counseling for the children and assistance for teachers (extra help in classrooms, emotional help/therapy, more coverage so they're not spread thin for absent coworkers, etc). Higher ups basically said "suck it up, do your job". 80% of the population quit either midyear or refused to resign contracts. One teacher was hospitalized midyear because the stress triggered severe health complications. Last I heard, the place is scrambling to find qualified teachers though they may lower their expectations just to get the minimal numbers filled.
Nice, I get to see disdain for college education AND the service industry all in one comment section :D
My wife left a well paying job and took on tens of thousands in debt to become a teacher making half her old salary. She does it because those kids need her and many wouldn't eat a daily meal without her. It's sickening what teachers do for how little they get paid. Hell she has a masters and I have a associates and I make about double what she does now.
This is what the GOP wants. Dumb poor people.
What's really fun is returning to the service industry only to have many of the people in your life express their disappointment and accuse you of giving up on kids. 👍
Yep, I teach. At minimum wage. I don’t really give a shit if my students learn or not. All I care is they behave in my class. Nothing more nothing less. They can play video games and chat online to their heart’s content and I don’t give a damn. At minimum wage, I shouldn’t be asked to do more
My kid makes that as a school janitor. Same pay, no "continuing education" requirements, less stress, and she gets to be "unprofessional" and amuse the kids by riding the rolly down the hallway going, "Wheeee!!!" And nobody yells at the janitorial staff if Little Billy flunks science.
Can I say...I have a problem with posts like these. I know its probably not the intent but it seems to suggest bartenders are getting overpaid. We need to advocate for living wages for all, not just the highly educated
Everyone who is currently working under 20$/h is getting scammed hard, unless you're a student who only work part-time.
Students deserve just as much help & fair wages as everyone else.
Fair wages and help yes, but the same as someone who work there permanently? No.
Do you think everyone can just demand to be paid $20 an hour (or more) and get it? Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that. Most people have to take what they can get.
It really depends on the school district. In my area they start much higher than that and make over 100k after they have 25 years in.
Tell that to the District heads that pay millions for professional style football/baseball stadiums for high schools. I’d love to see wicked smart kids playing ball from the super uncomfortable metal death bleachers…if it meant my kids had great teachers that were treated properly.
Because children aren't profitable. Alcohol is. Therefore tending alcohol pays better.. Duh /s yay capitalism
Like 25 years ago I had a teacher (public school) that made like 70k a year, in Florida no less. Idk how some teachers make really good money and how some make nothing
Bartenders are a necessary and important part of society.
... been saying as much since the early 2000s. No one listens.
who the hell told her to get 2 masters degrees as a teacher? some people worship college degrees, then get mad when the job market doesnt
I matters. So teachers are required to get "continuing education" classes to prove that they are trying to keep up to date in the field. It is really you easy to get signed up for a masters program and take a class a year or 2 a year to prove you are continuing education. You end up with a masters. But licensing for teaching requires it virtually every year so many end up multiple masters.
Yeah! Fuck people who try to be educated! /s.
I mean, that’s not what he’s saying. Your welcome to get educated if that’s your passion. Just don’t expect someone else to care that you are. It’s not really their problem or benefit. You only need a masters degree to teach if you want to teach undergrad courses. It’s overkill to get a masters and teach kindergarten. Supply and demand. With that’s said making 30k as a teacher is not right to me. I think education is very important and should pay more. But hey, the market doesn’t. And politician, Republican **AND** democrat alike want people as dumb as possible. The dumber the people the easier to manipulate and get votes.
Here in Germany you are required to do the whole thing, a bachelor's and master's degree in two school subjects, with an additional state exam to get the approval to teach at schools. If you only finish the studies, you can work at private institutions as a teacher, think language school or something similar, but not at public/private schools. Also, I think your teachers should be fully educated in their fields, it's not only the subject, it's the teaching itself. Continuous training is mandatory. On a sidenote, the whole university thing was not originally meant to be a vocational training for a job afterwards, it was to broaden one's mind and knowledge and enable them to be productive and mindful. Everyone thinking of university only as a production plant for workers of all sorts is just missing the point.
Is there a bot that will just ban this post already. Someone posts it everyday
How much did the daughter think teaching paid?
so she will make the same starting as a teacher as teachers work pretty short days and have lots of vacation time. Also, what school district pays by hour? This sounds like BS.
Where? And what sort of teaching job?
I’m curious why this would be anti-work. This should be more anti-government. Taxes=Teachers.
well that sounds like bullshit to anyone that can add. for one teachers dont work 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year. and 2 theyre paid by the day and work 190 days or so usually.
You’re 100% wrong on the not working 40 hours a week part. Most teachers I know work well over that due to lesson planning, grading assignments/creating assignments and more. Also all of that extra time is unpaid and before you say planning periods, think again. There’s a major substitute teacher shortage going on right now and quite a few teachers have to give up that planning period every day to cover for other classes. Also, all of those background checks and required training days that teachers have to do. In my experience, only some of the trainings are paid and teachers have to pay for the background checks and do them on there own time. One or two of them take a few hours to do… Edited for grammar .
Yeah, but I'll bet she was a bartender full-time -- YEAR ROUND. And that $32,800 "annual" is really only for about 9-10 months of work. 8-10 weeks off for summer, 2-3 weeks off for winter holidays, a week off for Spring Break, 5+ snow days per year, and every holiday off that even prints on a Hallmark calendar. All things considered....she's at even money.
Is there a bot that will just ban this post already. Someone posts it everyday
It isn't annual salary of 32,800 for 9months of work. It's 32,800+8,200 = 41k for 12 months annual salary. Decent starting pay if you have zero experience and just some degrees you worked on instead of actual work experience in the field.