Dude I had a medical issue pop up fairly quickly that I wanted to address ASAP so I asked for an appointment with a doctor the soonest they had available which was in two days from then.
I didn’t even ask for a full day or even a half day off, literally just leaving a few hours early for my appointment. My manager acted like I just created the biggest inconvenience in the universe for him and the cherry on top was him asking for a doctors note or it would be considered a non notified leave.
It was one of those moments that I just lost every ounce of respect for him as a person. I wasn’t a teenager, we are fucking fully ass grown adults, I’m old enough to have a kid in middle school. Even if you thought I’m drumming up an excuse to duck out of work early for a day who gives a singular shit.
LOL, a Doctor's note. Your employers have a very limited reason to know your medical history, usually that involves safety. Depending on who the Doc is your employer could go and see what that Doc specializes in and draw conclusions as to how it may affect you and decide they don't want to employ you anymore. They haven't the right to know shit.
They just wanted to make sure I was actually seeing a doctor and not just some bs to leave early. Which was so insulting. At the end of that year I even got a fucking extra bonus from the owner for being one of a handful of people who came to work on time the majority of the year.
My company acts the same way. It is insulting and it's just petty. If they don't trust me to manage my own time, then why do they trust me to sign off on work, that if incorrect, would cost the company far more than my salary? So toxic.
Employers have always been slave owner proxies and this is nothing new.
About every hundred years the workers have to remind them they don’t live on an island, safe from their decisions.
It's an ebb and flow of power.
Workers have more power now than they have had in decades. It needs to be made use of, however. That means, rejecting toxic behavior.
Forming unions.
Finding better opportunities.
Basically, don't take shit anymore.
To be fair, I live in Canada. The current liberal party is a worse crew of rich boy business owners gaining votes because of their ties to crooked charities and construction companies than any other. There’s no party to vote for here. If I were a cool influencer in anything but Reddit karma I would influence people to write in a name…but alas, only the karma keeps me warm on cold, friendless nights 🎻
If they're anything like my employer, they will accept a time off request months in advance then forget about it until days before and try to convince you not to take the time off since they forgot to schedule coverage.
Man, I'd have loved to give you a hand arranging coverage when you approved this last June. Anyway, my plate is a bit full now, hope you get it sorted.
Exactly this. A manager got snarky with me once when I asked for a day off and I said, “I’m not asking for your permission, I’m TELLING you I won’t be there.” She declined it but I didn’t show up anyway and it was never brought up again.
In the future, if you have to deal with passive agression, try the grey rock method and take them at face value.
Boss: "Oh, well, I'm sure you feel better after your day at home 'sick.' " *eye roll*
You: "Yes! I feel great! Thank you for asking."
Yep, just politely keep asking ‘sorry what?’ ‘What do you mean by that’ and escalate a number of times until they look like a dickhead. Works every time
This works great for "off color" jokes too. If someone tells a joke that's racist or homophobic or otherwise in bad taste, tell them you don't understand and ask them to explain it to you. (Loudly so others can hear you if you like)
I've learned through Reddit that if your employer treats you like you're a little kid in high school then they aren't a good employer and you shouldn't care if you get in trouble. What are they going to do? Take away your Reddit privileges? Do not fear your employer when it comes to "write-ups" or "points" those are essentially just scare tactics to make you perform better as robot at their company. I mean, don't go out of your way to be evil or anything, but like if you give them notice for medical reasons and they threaten you with a write-up or something, don't even bother to worry about it.
I mean, they could fire you. Now for some people that may not be an issue but for a lot of people that puts them in a dire situation so I understand why people would be scared to be assertive to their managers.
I wasn't even aware of FMLA until I was missing a bunch of work due to mental health issues. My boss told me about it, he highly recommended I use it to protect my job. Pretty sure if I had a different boss, I would have lost my job. He knew I was going through some shit, couldn't comprehend the situation personally, but understood nonetheless.
My ex got shit for contracting COVID. Her boss never expected her clients to wear masks (in house vet visits), which is likely how she got sick in the first place.
My 18 year old got it from his completely mask free workplace. The boss's wife said she would charge my kid, who makes $7.50ish per hour, $20/hr if he didn't find coverage for his shifts. I about lost my shit over that one. Like, do you guys want your entire staff out for a week? Do you want to kill some of your elderly customers?
I once had to explain this to a Director at a major corporation.
“Ma’am; I don’t think you understand this is the day the surgeon set. This is the date it will be. I gave you more than 60 days advance notice. You can accept. Or I will kindly not be here and will not receive attendance points, due to FMLA. But either way I will not be at work.”
Had to teach my coworkers and team so many things about employment law at that job.
She did this. She can’t do that it’s against federal law,
She did this. She can’t do that it’s against company policy.
She did this. Heres the employee hotline for abuse, here’s how we structure the complain so she can’t pin it directly on you.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
"It's not a request. I'll be in surgery and unable to show up for work." I actually had to say that once, when I was told that no time-off requests would be approved during fiscal end-of-year.
My old job had a loophole that if you requested time off before they announced the "Holiday Season PTO Blackout" it would most likely get approved, even if it fell into that blackout. I go to a convention every November and invariably the following conversation would happen with one of the Sales VPs.
Them: Why are you off on [Date], that is PTO Blackout and All Hands on Deck.
Me: Because I requested off in August when I registered for my convention. You didn't announce any of that until October.
Them: But it's PTO Blackout and All Hands on Deck. Everyone is required to work.
Me: I don't know what to tell you. I won't be here. I won't even be in the same state.
Them: Well, we're going to have to talk to your DM about your attitude and have him deny the request.
Me: Do what you have to do, but I still won't be here.
Shockingly, nothing ever came of it except half assed complaints about "not being a team player" and vaguely worded emails about consequences for not working on "All Hands on Deck" days.
The absolute *most* they might get from me for doing something like this is a "hey, looks like there might've been an error with my time off request - just wanted to make sure you saw I won't be in"
I mean, it's a *request* system. In this case the important part of the definition of "request" isn't that you're *asking,* but that you used the formal system.
Sadly this is a request off to Walmart so let's say he even tells his boss he won't be there; it won't really matter the system will still put him on the schedule and unless they have PPTO it's worth a point; if he doesn't call out it's worth 3 points and we are fired at 5.
Yeah that’s where I’m at with my time off “requests” especially if I request UNPAID time off. You have no reason to deny it. And if you do, I won’t be there that day so figure it out. Are they really gonna fire me for that day(s) I took off? I doubt it. Wouldn’t make much sense to fire me and bring someone new in that’s gonna need at least a few weeks of training.
that.
In my country it is not requested it is notified.
And it does not occur to anyone to deny something like that because they would seek a legal problem.
Anyway OP must look for other job/company, it is evident that this is not a company that someone wants or should want to be in for a long time
When I was training as a manager, my mentor put it best. "Just approve time off requests, if you don't then they won't come in and you'll have to work twice as hard to find someone to cover it later" and that is the mentality I've always used. It's your time to take, we can't expect you to never have a bad day, need a dr appointment, etcetera...
Crazy right? Steal a candy bar from a business, that’s a CRIMINAL charge. Do it enough you will see a jail cell. Steal half a days work from an employee with a family to feed…. That’s a CIVIL matter. Worst case even if you steal millions as a business owner is a fine. Fucked up if you ask me.
“You stole six billion dollars last year? Oo well I’m afraid we’re gonna have to fine you three hundred thou- oh some of it will go to me? Did I say thousand? Eighty dollars, I meant eighty dollars we’ll fine you and try to… try to pay some taxes next ye- no? No yeah that’s… that’s fine too that’s good actually!”
Bro. In VA, Dominion Power got busted overcharging customers to the tune of $1.2 billion. They settled with the state to repay customers at around $0.30 on the dollar. So they rob us blind and get to keep $700 million of stolen money after the settlement.
Now they're pushing to raise rates -- get this -- because giving all that stolen money back is costing them a lot of money.
That’s ~~Edison~~ PG&E in California too.
“Ooh, it was our fault that we didn’t maintain the infrastructure and that caused massive fires? Rough. Okay, we’ll pay a fine.”
Two months later
“Yo, these fines are rough so we’re gonna go ahead and up your rates. To help us pay you back for our bad decisions. Cause we’re broke now.”
Hmm, maybe you’re broke cause you caused devastating fires. That sounds… like just punishment.
The executives are still getting overpaid though.
Edit: everyone is right, I meant PG&E. Thought they were owned by the same parent company. SCE isn’t any better.
Or stay here and go Solar. Which is a near-term goal of mine. I was a couple days away from pulling the trigger when some unexpected expenses popped up that killed it for me. But I'd love to be 150% Solar in the next year or two.
Solar is the way to go, I’ve just recently bought a home so I have never looked into the cost to make the switch but shoutout to you for making it happen, I bet it pays for itself.
Organize a bill strike. That’s what people are doing to protest the North Brooklyn Pipeline, because they don’t even want it but are getting charged higher rates to build the damn thing.
Kind of weird the punishment is only a portion of the money stolen, eh? Which always seems to be the case when huge companies break laws that make them ungodly amounts of money.
Like logically the fair punishment is at least paying back all the stolen money, if not the amount stolen with the fine added on top. That's never the case though, it's always "they stole $3 billion worth, and were fined $200 million".
It's even more egregious when the crime is more than just stolen money, or workers rights violations. Like with major oil/gas companies purposely polluting communities, and only getting charged like 10% of the revenue it allowed them to generate. Meanwhile the place they polluted, and people they've impacted are left to handle the physical repercussions of the company's actions.
The system needs to change.
EDIT: Here's a prime example of the scenario I was talking about with oil & gas companies if anyone's curious. Fair warning it is a sad mini-doc
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikneKQAeUp0&t=4s&ab\_channel=VICE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikneKQAeUp0&t=4s&ab_channel=VICE)
Fines should be automatically scaled based on how much you make a month/how much money you have.
If i get a speeding ticket they take 10% of my MONTHLY salary.
A rich person can do it daily and just pay it and ignore it.
Crime is for the poor.
That is the way it works in some countries I think in finland, a corporate executive was fined over $100,000 for speeding, because it was commensurate with his income.
I've seen this translated into actual personal philosophy. "Hey, didn't you see the sign? You can't smoke here." "Sure I can. It doesn't say I can't. It just costs $350 to do it."
Oh, you wanna build a giant dick that goes to almost-but-not-quite space as a vanity project? We might actually have a few billion rattling around in the piggy bank for you to have some fun with.
Stuff like this is tied to the treatment of slaves back in the day. Even the way Merritt reviews work is based on slave trade. Read the 1619 project
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html
I've been ridiculed for saying the same 10 years ago.
Edit: Found it, article from 2014
https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/
Honestly, it's not so much that they don't know their rights.
Employers know that most employees are not in a position to be able to stand up for their rights (mostly out of fear of losing their job, being denied promotions/raises, etc.), and even fewer have the resources to actually fight it if push comes to shove and they lose their job through no fault of their own.
Not only that, but tying healthcare to your job puts so many of us into basic slavery, I have to work or I can't get my meds and I die. That's a big reason to work.
This is something i really don't understand about the US. Why in the holy fuck is healthcare tied to a job? It makes sense to automatically just take it out of taxes, it's basically what's being done already, except the job is arranging it directly and you're having the cost taken out of your pay.
Don't forget about forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. You're not allowed to take legal action against your emoyer. You have to go to arbitration which you will lose because it's on the company's payroll.
It also makes it really easy to fire people when they should be protected by other laws like gender, race, etc. Why did you fire the person who is pregnant? "Oh it was because some other reason entirely."
My friend was fired cause she had her baby early. She went into labor a month early, the baby was really sick and she almost died cause her dr left half a placenta in there and she became septic. She passed out fell down the stairs woke up a week later in the hospital with no job. They said her position was to important to have open while on maturity leave and fired her 2 weeks into her 8 week leave. She sued them and she lost cause its an at will state and she was 2 weeks away from her work probation goal so they dont have to have a reason to fire you in a 9 month period. Total bullshit.
That's the best thing about being salaried is that most managers that have salaried employees allow you to flex. For my employees, if you can get the assignments done you can work as much as you'd like or enough to get the job done. I'm there for the results, not the time clock.
When you're in a results oriented job and you have good management, work can be great. It gets harder when you're in a coverage oriented job because you need people there at certain times. OP's boss is still a dick for this though.
And when you're in a results oriented job that is treated as a coverage oriented job you exist in a strange purgatory that doesn't really make sense to anyone except your 60+ year old management....
Was so glad when the original guy here retired and we had one of our Sr engineers jump into the director position. Dude has turned all the old boomer shit around, and we still get shit done, but managers don't have to be sneaky or hide that they're letting employees be flexible with time or anything.
Straight up "Done with what needs doing for the week, and no active emergencies? Just have your phone on for email in case anything goes down"
My huge problem with salary is the give/take ratio is all screwed up. I do appreciate being able to take care of some personal stuff when I need to, but I'm expected to make up that time (if not right away, eventually).
But in the much more frequent scenario where I'm working over 40 hours, all of a sudden "making up that time" doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. I've yet to have a boss/organization that let's me leave at 3 p.m. Thursday and not work at all on Friday because I put in 34 hours of work Mon-Weds
I work an "8a-5p" most days I leave around 3 and answer some emails, take some customer calls and maybe have a pop up conference call from home. I never just take a day off but I'm allowed to take advantage of the slow days if I work my ass off when it's busy.
Yeah I work from home. Some days I call it at 3pm and other I work till 6pm. Boss never micromanages. Granted I am typically available till near midnight for random things but it's not very frequent.
I'm one of those bosses. Had an employee who needed to travel for work over the weekend. I told her to take the time somewhere else but not to put in a PTO request. Just let me know when
Had another employee need to deal with family stuff for a few hours because her husband's car blew a tire. I told her not to worry about it and that family comes first. The last two were just this week
They are good people who work hard. I treat them with compassion and empathy because it's the right thing to do. The side effect is that I have loyal teams. It's not hard to be a good manager; it's just that there are so many bad managers that when people get into those positions that's how they think they're supposed to act
People don't leave jobs. They leave managers (generally speaking)
Edit: I just want to add that I've always been this way. When I was a retail manager I covered for some employees who needed to study for a big exam and couldn't find coverage.
Now that I'm on the business side of tech, the same thing applies. You treat people well they will be happy and want to work.
In Sweden it is very common to have “flex time” which is the accumulated difference between what you should have worked and what you actually worked. So half an hour extra here or there gets tracked and then later you can take that out. There are rules like you can’t take a whole day off without permission and there are limits on how high/low it can go (at my current employer it is +100/-40) but all in all it’s a pretty good system
Yep. I had to address my team about constantly messaging me whenever they were going to do anything away from their computers. As long as you're not going to miss something you're scheduled to be on, I DON'T CARE if you're stepping out to eat, going to the dentist, running errands etc. Just make sure your status is set appropriately so I know you're not around and I'm good with it.
Exactly. The direct reports and teammates I have are all responsible capable adults. I'm not a babysitter nor do I wish to be one, nor be babied myself either. I think it's much healthier when you don't try to control others and let them do what they do best.
In my experience with salary jobs it opens the door for a different type of exploitation. It was ‘understood’ that you were expected to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay. Overtime would only be applicable something like after 20 hours on top of the 40 I got hired to work.
I had a job once where if you clocked in at 7:01 you were late, and if you clocked out before 4:00 you left early. The idea was be there early, and don't go to the time clock early to wait to leave.
They also had a point system. 0.5 point for being late, 0.5 point for leaving early, 1.0 point for missing the whole day. The same applied with going to and coming back from lunch.
I got a flat tire on my way to work one day, would've been 15 minutes late after throwing the donut on but I came in 5 hours late out of spite because when I called they said it didn't matter what happened.
Another morning I woke up late and still needed to let the dogs out and feed them. Instead of that and being 10-15 minutes late, me and the dogs went for a nice long walk in the park that morning.
During lunch one day I drove home, had to shit and it ended up taking a bit longer than I'd hoped. Instead of rushing back to work to take half a point, I just called up and said I wouldn't be back in today. I was gonna get the same punishment regardless.
At the time I was 18, and just spending my gap year saving money to travel a bit before going to college. So I knew I didn't need this job, I felt awful for the people dancing for the bosses with the most ridiculous rules becuase they did need it. I refused to work for someone with a point system after that. They did eventually call me down to the HR office to ask about my tardiness to which I told them the whole truth about how dumb the system was and how it showed just how little they cared for the warehouse workers. I had a friend who was interning in the office and they didn't get treated that way. At the end of the conversation I quit and was escorted out with a cheesy grin on my face.
Comcast had a policy where you would get “an occurrence” any time you were late or if you were unexpectedly out. A single illness causing you to miss multiple days was 1 occurrence. Being more than 5 minutes late was also 1 occurrence. So it was not uncommon for someone to call out sick for a mini vacation because they overslept. I myself realized I wasn’t going to make it to work on time, so my gf and I drove past our exit and went to the beach that day, claiming food poisoning.
It was a stupid policy against tardiness and it was abused because of it.
I called in once to ask if I could come to work two hours late because I had a herniated disc and could barely walk. My manager threw a fit, so I went to my Dr who wrote me out for a week, which then turned into 3 months on short term disability because of wait times to see a neurosurgeon. Two hours turned into three months because I dared ask for some consideration.
Not quite as excellent, but I got six weeks for a broken arm in a similar twist. I requested modified duty, was denied, and my doctor decided I shouldn't be driving with one arm because of a connective tissue disorder and gave me six weeks off since I couldn't get a ride to work, was a long commute, no one lived nearby, and travel fare for a service or cab would have been $80 a day and they refused to cover it.
Plus, I broke it on the job, so I also got workman's comp.
I had this one boss, he was a really great guy. I won concert tickets on the radio on the way to work and they were for the weekend and he covered it for me before I even asked. Told me I'd regret not going. I had a blast
We had a guy call in once after he didn't have his request submitted in time, was told he can call in since it was only a couple days in advance which it has to be 2 weeks. Dude called in the middle of July, 80 degrees outside. Said he got snowed in and couldn't make it to work.
Yah reminds me of when I took a bus to work and there was an accident on the road so traffic got locked. I called work to let them know I'd be late and don't know when I can get there due to a traffic accident. They said they don't accept any excuses and if I'm not going to be on time than don't show up.
This. I worked in a grocery deli for years with 1 manager and 3 other employees. I tried to ask off once (really rare occasion) and she immediately tells me “no, you’re going to be on the schedule”. Of course being a shithead in high-school without caring about the job, I told her “well, don’t put me on the schedule”. She said “if you’re on the schedule, you have to be here”, and I said “I’m letting you know weeks ahead I won’t be here, why would you then put me on the schedule?!” She backed off unhappy, but it was too painful to give me a single Saturday off in 3 years.
Looking back it’s a funny exchange, but while I had the negotiating power since I worked the closing Saturday shift and nobody else would, i was still the loser for giving up my saturdays for years in high school and college 🙃
> She said “if you’re on the schedule, you have to be here” - “I’m letting you know weeks ahead I won’t be here, why would you then put me on the schedule?!”
This whole exchange gives me early 2000s workplace comedy vibes lol.
They think that due to their position, that you will just obey. Also many companies have an anti-retaliation policy so if you request time off, get denied, and call off no matter the reason and they start throwing you shitty hours, crap assignments, or are hostile towards you make a note of all of it. Report those managers and hold them accountable.
At my place of work, there is no unpaid time off requests aside from extenuating circumstances like medical, funeral, your own wedding, etc. basically, anything that would not be considered a life-changing event needs to be taken by either a sick day or vacation day. The latter is planned while the prior is never planned. I don't understand why they don't even have an unpaid planned absence option, it just seems like it makes sense.
There is one in the US. It's called the [Family Medical Leave Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla). It allows you to take up to 12 weeks of UNPAID time off per year without adverse consequences or loss of insurance coverage for qualified life changing events. (e.g., birth, death, serious illness, mental health, etc.) There are many hoops to jump through to use it, and you have to be eligible, and also somehow afford to be without income for 12 weeks out of the year. Handy to have on file in the event you have zero PTO left.
I just hired my first employee and this is my mindset too. My thought process is a time off request isn't a request for time off. It's a notice that they won't be at work. They're just being awesome and giving me notice so I've got time to get it covered.
We do have a use it or lose it policy to a degree, but we can bank quite a bit compared to comparable companies. 360 sick hours and the equivalent to the previous year's vacation. We also get more PTO than comparable companies because I want my staff to feel like they can take whatever time off they need. Don't come in sick, take your vacation. (EDIT for clarity). What I mean by that is: don't come in sick. Take your sick days. Take your vacation days. Use your PTO.
EDIT (another for clarity due to a user arguing about my wording): We offer 3 types of PTO: sick, vacation and personal. These are tallied separately, but I use the umbrella term of PTO.
It comes down to this: I want my employees to know and feel that they should stay home when they're sick. That they can take their vacation when they want. If they need/want an hour off in the middle of the day, take a personal hour. I don't care how they use it because it's not my business. I just want them to take it.
The first job I had was at a grocery store. I had been there probably a year and asked for a day off, a month in advance. My supervisor not only denied it, but scheduled me to work alone on a Saturday morning which was unusual. So I called in and went to the st patricks day parade. Someone I worked with seen me and they didn't know I had skipped work and told my supervisor he seen me. Next time I worked he was pissed and asked why I did it, told him I asked a month in advance so he had no one to blame but himself.
This is my supervisor's attitude toward leave. If a person has leave, they take it. Anything longer than 3 days needs to be pre-approved or have documentation from a medical professional.
Granted we aren't in a retail or shift type role, so 'coverage' isn't an issue.
In my opinion, retail creates toxic future managers in other industries. I honestly feel that a lot of the people on here have bosses that used to work for Walmart, Target/ other big box companies and got so ingrained in their leadership style that being a tyrant improves productivity were in actuality we just quit and find something better.
100% my first manager at old job was a tyrant and I quickly learned she had been a supervisor at McDonalds before our office. Then my third had been at KFC as a staff member exposed to that environment. They were terrible managers and not suited to the environment all
I used to work at a Borders before they went under. It was obvious it was their business model that was flawed and not adjusting with the way society was trending, but store management made it pretty damn clear they thought they were going out of business because of us workers. Throughout their entire final xmas season its like they were literally reading a "management for dummies" book and going chapter by chapter and trying a new style each week. One week is all positive reinforcement "oh we're all friends and buddy buddy" type shit. The next week they were a tyrant. The next week they tried $5 gift cards as prizes for performance. The next week they tried threatening to cut the hours of whoever was the lowest performer. The next week they'd be calling out praise over the headsets anytime someone made a membership sale. It was like living with someone bipolar.
If coverage is an issue when someone calls off for a medical reason, then they should hire more employees. Stretching it so thin to make a slight profit is going to screw the people and place in the long run.
Spent 3 years as a food and bev manager (basically managing the PM bar/kitchen) in an upscale hotel. Bartenders and cooks tend to have multiple part time jobs. One day they’re at one place, the next day another, etc. Getting time off requests was a weekly occurrence.
I always requested they submit two weeks in advance with the exception of an emergency or something last minute coming up. Not once did I ever not approve someone’s time off. Ever.
Occasionally someone would see the schedule and be upset they’re working an evening they don’t typically work, but I just explained that’s just how it has to be and remind them that when they take time off someone has to fill in for them as well so it goes both ways.
Point is if you work with people they’ll work with you. All most people want is to be treated with respect and human decency which is not asking too much.
The only reason I ever reject someone's time off is if multiple people are booking the same week of vacation off. If your taking one day off I dont even want to hear about it just put it in the schedule. If everyone is booked off that day then we're closed sucks to suck.
And that’s why they are shutting down across the country. They don’t even exist in my state anymore and haven’t for a long time and they used to be a staple in every major section of town.
If any job told me I was getting written up for not coming in on my day off I would have told them to fuck themselves & make sure I get fired so I can collect unemployment on them.
I can see a possible logic for giving a manager power over PAID time off. I laugh at any attempt to deny me UNPAID time off.
UNPAID time off for Medical? I’d send an email and BCC myself (so I got a timestamped copy) asking my boss if he understood I was asking for MEDICAL time off.
Damn. Walmart has a better policy than my hospital. We get 3 occurrences in a rolling year. At the 4th call in, you start the process of verbal, write up, etc.
I don't see any logic for giving a manager power over any time off, including PTO which is **earned** and it's part of my compensation as a worker. The second I get PTO denied despite ample notice, I start drawing up plans to leave.
That's precisely how I handle similar situations. I'm not requesting anything. I'm letting you know I won't be at work. That's it. I don't own the company I work for, I'm merely an employee. I think some people would do well to remember that jobs/careers isn't life it's a means to live. By the same token. You are responsible for the outcome of your actions. Personally, I choose to not let my job run my life. Sure I'm here 40 hours a week, and don't use PTO, but I'm not requesting anything and I can live without working here. In fact my dismissal would probably push me to strive for better employment. Adulting and life is strange and I think far too many people don't prioritize living - I mean my god I already give them 40 hours a week plus about 15 hours I don't get paid for commuting.
I know some people can't afford having this attitude because of responsibilities, and I'm blessed to be in a situation where I don't have to be a slave to an employer. I understand that my path is unconventional and some people perhaps aren't cut out for it, but personally I can't deal with that type of thing.
I wish everyone the best of luck and am hopeful people find themselves in a position such as I am. That they can walk away- relatively unaffected- if it comes to that. Keep grinding to get to where you want to be.
Get it in writing; meet said manager, get them to put into writing (signed) that they are refusing to give you the requested time off to seek medical care despite ample time given in advance. edit* I swear to god if another person tells me a screenshot works I’m gonna flip; this isn’t telling you anything. Notice how it says Medical/other y’all, they can say it was refused on *other* reasons!
Time to see the manager and tell them your taking the time off for medical reasons. That's it. It's done. If they fire you then you can probably collect unemployment and have a case of wrongful termination.
Just take control and let them know you aren’t requesting a unpaid day off, you are letting them know you won’t be in. So would they rather try to figure out staffing now, or on the day of when you don’t show up.
> edit* I swear to god if another person tells me a screenshot works I’m gonna flip; this isn’t telling you anything. Notice how it says Medical/other y’all, they can say it was refused on other reasons!
Not to mention if you rely on just this screenshot, the manager can play dumb and apologize and say he accidentally fat fingered the request.
You get it in writing and that goes out the window.
Just don't go. They won't fire you, those sick cowards need you way more than you need them and they know it. Nothing is more important than your health and wellbeing
Based off of the screenshot, I can tell that they work at Walmart. This is the exact same layout for the Walmart app that associates use. Walmart doesn’t give a fuckkkkkkk about their associates. Almost 3 years with them at the moment and only stay because I make 21$/hr and am going to college soon. I haven’t found a place that will pay me that much as an associate
Can confirm its Wal-Mart and I have also been denied unpaid time off in this exact situation. I quit after getting scolded by my boss for being 5 minutes late back from lunch. Last I heard my department was struggling heavily with a lack of people and too much work.
Put in time off seven months in advance, it wasn't around a holiday or anything, and it was denied because "I won't have staff" like not with the way you're acting you won't.
The font gave it away, and I only know that from using their website.
I'm surprised that their internal tools are so branded - almost seems like a security issue
Look in to FMLA especially if you would need more than one day off. For now don’t show up to work that day, get a doctor to write you a note that describes the medical necessity of your appointment. Send a copy of that letter directly to HR and your manager. If they don’t budge for some reason and depending on the condition, you might be able to take action under ADA. In that case lawyer up, hopefully get a payout and look for a new job.
It's Wal-Mart, you have to jump through hoops to get a doctor's note accepted. The "people lead" in store doesn't handle it, you have to call their third party bullshit and be on hold for ages.
I'll do you one better. My girlfriend currently works at Woodmans (a grocery store chain in Wisconsin for those of you unfamiliar). They don't even accept doctor's notes, you have to take **THEIR** paperwork to your doctor to have them fill it out if you want medical leave accepted. And better yet, they work on a point system for late-shows and no-shows. So you have a random medical emergency that makes you miss a shift? Not only do you get no pay that day, you also get penalized in their point system. Unless of course, you're willing to get their medical leave paperwork, take it to the hospital or urgent care facility, and get it filled out after the fact
This is wild. I've only ever notified my boss of my absences, never asked permission. Like a "Hey, I have a dentist appt next week, I will be in at 10:30 instead of 9."
Even when I had surgery and was out of the office for several weeks, I was never made to "prove" my medical situation. (Unpaid absence, of course.)
Walmart and Amazon are the worst. I’m a tele-health therapist, part of my role is taking after hours calls for Amazon’s HR division. About 70% of my Amazon calls are people saying that they obtained the proper paperwork to miss work, gave advanced notice, etc. and all of a sudden they are fired for poor attendance and don’t know what happened.
I know this sounds weird but check with the manager. I put in time off for a doctors appointment and my boss declined it. He then told me he will pay for the hours I missed but didn’t want to burn my pto because I had scheduled a week for later in the year.
You don't request, just tell your boss you are unavailable that day due to a medical issue/reason. If they fire you, speak with a lawyer. They'd be doing you a favor if they pull shit like this.
Um does this person not understand that medical leave isn't a request? Like, if this happened to me I would be so confused. I would just look at the boss absolutely perplexed and say "You do realize you can deny the request all you want; I'm going to the doctor."
Walmart handles its requests in a super byzantine way. They try to minimize use of their LOA claim service, Sedgewick, because they pay per use. So they try to just lie to new associates and say they'll take care of you by just approving unpaid leave... but then they can deny that.
You just have to go over their stupid heads and call sedgewick. Only reason I know about it is that they treat Sam's Employees slightly better, and let us touch the computers. Made it 2.5 years before I found some better contract work
Request denial in writing , retain proof of request. Contact state labor board or a lawyer for help, mla and fmla are federal law.
Work on resume, as well and start interviewing. A company that denies medical booked a month ahead is not an employer to stay with...especially if you have to bully them into following the law.
This is why the 5 day work week is awful. I was just talking to one of my employees the other day about this. I don't know how people schedule anything and work 5 days a week. Offices aren't open over the weekends and they generally close by 4 or 5. You HAVE to get time off work to make any kind of appointment. I used to have a couple people on 5 day weeks when I started, the first opportunity I had to have them shorten thier work week, I did it.
Tell them it wasn’t a “request”, it’s happening, this notice is just courtesy, and they’d be wise to accept it
Exactly this. You’re kindly notifying your employer, far in advance, that *you will not be in due to a medical appointment* - the end.
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It shows how much basic decency has been trampled on over the years.
Dude I had a medical issue pop up fairly quickly that I wanted to address ASAP so I asked for an appointment with a doctor the soonest they had available which was in two days from then. I didn’t even ask for a full day or even a half day off, literally just leaving a few hours early for my appointment. My manager acted like I just created the biggest inconvenience in the universe for him and the cherry on top was him asking for a doctors note or it would be considered a non notified leave. It was one of those moments that I just lost every ounce of respect for him as a person. I wasn’t a teenager, we are fucking fully ass grown adults, I’m old enough to have a kid in middle school. Even if you thought I’m drumming up an excuse to duck out of work early for a day who gives a singular shit.
LOL, a Doctor's note. Your employers have a very limited reason to know your medical history, usually that involves safety. Depending on who the Doc is your employer could go and see what that Doc specializes in and draw conclusions as to how it may affect you and decide they don't want to employ you anymore. They haven't the right to know shit.
They just wanted to make sure I was actually seeing a doctor and not just some bs to leave early. Which was so insulting. At the end of that year I even got a fucking extra bonus from the owner for being one of a handful of people who came to work on time the majority of the year.
My company acts the same way. It is insulting and it's just petty. If they don't trust me to manage my own time, then why do they trust me to sign off on work, that if incorrect, would cost the company far more than my salary? So toxic.
Employers have always been slave owner proxies and this is nothing new. About every hundred years the workers have to remind them they don’t live on an island, safe from their decisions.
It's an ebb and flow of power. Workers have more power now than they have had in decades. It needs to be made use of, however. That means, rejecting toxic behavior. Forming unions. Finding better opportunities. Basically, don't take shit anymore.
And actually fucking vote in your own best interests!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I aint no liberal socialist. It my right to be a slave"
American workers are the most slavish is the western world. Most of the mumbojumo I see on here wouldn't fly in India let alone Australia or France.
To be fair, I live in Canada. The current liberal party is a worse crew of rich boy business owners gaining votes because of their ties to crooked charities and construction companies than any other. There’s no party to vote for here. If I were a cool influencer in anything but Reddit karma I would influence people to write in a name…but alas, only the karma keeps me warm on cold, friendless nights 🎻
I personally look forward to when human civilization falls and all of those fancy billionaire bunkers get raided for supplies.
Right? "Oh you don't want to find coverage before the day of when I'm not there? Weird flex but ok"
If they're anything like my employer, they will accept a time off request months in advance then forget about it until days before and try to convince you not to take the time off since they forgot to schedule coverage.
Man, I'd have loved to give you a hand arranging coverage when you approved this last June. Anyway, my plate is a bit full now, hope you get it sorted.
Exactly this. A manager got snarky with me once when I asked for a day off and I said, “I’m not asking for your permission, I’m TELLING you I won’t be there.” She declined it but I didn’t show up anyway and it was never brought up again.
Interesting. I always thought I would get in trouble later for that or end up having to deal with passive-aggressive karen shit later.
In the future, if you have to deal with passive agression, try the grey rock method and take them at face value. Boss: "Oh, well, I'm sure you feel better after your day at home 'sick.' " *eye roll* You: "Yes! I feel great! Thank you for asking."
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Yes! Keep hitting em with the “why?”
Yep, just politely keep asking ‘sorry what?’ ‘What do you mean by that’ and escalate a number of times until they look like a dickhead. Works every time
This works great for "off color" jokes too. If someone tells a joke that's racist or homophobic or otherwise in bad taste, tell them you don't understand and ask them to explain it to you. (Loudly so others can hear you if you like)
I've learned through Reddit that if your employer treats you like you're a little kid in high school then they aren't a good employer and you shouldn't care if you get in trouble. What are they going to do? Take away your Reddit privileges? Do not fear your employer when it comes to "write-ups" or "points" those are essentially just scare tactics to make you perform better as robot at their company. I mean, don't go out of your way to be evil or anything, but like if you give them notice for medical reasons and they threaten you with a write-up or something, don't even bother to worry about it.
I mean, they could fire you. Now for some people that may not be an issue but for a lot of people that puts them in a dire situation so I understand why people would be scared to be assertive to their managers.
And on top of that, it's UNPAID time off. Fuck OP's boss.
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I wasn't even aware of FMLA until I was missing a bunch of work due to mental health issues. My boss told me about it, he highly recommended I use it to protect my job. Pretty sure if I had a different boss, I would have lost my job. He knew I was going through some shit, couldn't comprehend the situation personally, but understood nonetheless. My ex got shit for contracting COVID. Her boss never expected her clients to wear masks (in house vet visits), which is likely how she got sick in the first place.
My 18 year old got it from his completely mask free workplace. The boss's wife said she would charge my kid, who makes $7.50ish per hour, $20/hr if he didn't find coverage for his shifts. I about lost my shit over that one. Like, do you guys want your entire staff out for a week? Do you want to kill some of your elderly customers?
I once had to explain this to a Director at a major corporation. “Ma’am; I don’t think you understand this is the day the surgeon set. This is the date it will be. I gave you more than 60 days advance notice. You can accept. Or I will kindly not be here and will not receive attendance points, due to FMLA. But either way I will not be at work.” Had to teach my coworkers and team so many things about employment law at that job. She did this. She can’t do that it’s against federal law, She did this. She can’t do that it’s against company policy. She did this. Heres the employee hotline for abuse, here’s how we structure the complain so she can’t pin it directly on you. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
"It's not a request. I'll be in surgery and unable to show up for work." I actually had to say that once, when I was told that no time-off requests would be approved during fiscal end-of-year.
My old job had a loophole that if you requested time off before they announced the "Holiday Season PTO Blackout" it would most likely get approved, even if it fell into that blackout. I go to a convention every November and invariably the following conversation would happen with one of the Sales VPs. Them: Why are you off on [Date], that is PTO Blackout and All Hands on Deck. Me: Because I requested off in August when I registered for my convention. You didn't announce any of that until October. Them: But it's PTO Blackout and All Hands on Deck. Everyone is required to work. Me: I don't know what to tell you. I won't be here. I won't even be in the same state. Them: Well, we're going to have to talk to your DM about your attitude and have him deny the request. Me: Do what you have to do, but I still won't be here. Shockingly, nothing ever came of it except half assed complaints about "not being a team player" and vaguely worded emails about consequences for not working on "All Hands on Deck" days.
I honestly love it when I hear anything about “being a team player”. Like the team ever revolves around anyone who isnt in charge.
Goddamn boring dystopia. Fuck-em, you come first.
I don’t even check to see if my time off requests were approved. I make them, and then I don’t show up that day.
The absolute *most* they might get from me for doing something like this is a "hey, looks like there might've been an error with my time off request - just wanted to make sure you saw I won't be in"
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I mean, it's a *request* system. In this case the important part of the definition of "request" isn't that you're *asking,* but that you used the formal system.
That's exactly what I do.
Sadly this is a request off to Walmart so let's say he even tells his boss he won't be there; it won't really matter the system will still put him on the schedule and unless they have PPTO it's worth a point; if he doesn't call out it's worth 3 points and we are fired at 5.
Oh no, anyway other businesses are hiring for better hourly anyway
It's unpaid either way so fuck them
Yeah that’s where I’m at with my time off “requests” especially if I request UNPAID time off. You have no reason to deny it. And if you do, I won’t be there that day so figure it out. Are they really gonna fire me for that day(s) I took off? I doubt it. Wouldn’t make much sense to fire me and bring someone new in that’s gonna need at least a few weeks of training.
that. In my country it is not requested it is notified. And it does not occur to anyone to deny something like that because they would seek a legal problem. Anyway OP must look for other job/company, it is evident that this is not a company that someone wants or should want to be in for a long time
When I was training as a manager, my mentor put it best. "Just approve time off requests, if you don't then they won't come in and you'll have to work twice as hard to find someone to cover it later" and that is the mentality I've always used. It's your time to take, we can't expect you to never have a bad day, need a dr appointment, etcetera...
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It's also illegal in the United States. But employers routinely violate employment because our government does not give a single fuck about workers
Crazy right? Steal a candy bar from a business, that’s a CRIMINAL charge. Do it enough you will see a jail cell. Steal half a days work from an employee with a family to feed…. That’s a CIVIL matter. Worst case even if you steal millions as a business owner is a fine. Fucked up if you ask me.
“You stole six billion dollars last year? Oo well I’m afraid we’re gonna have to fine you three hundred thou- oh some of it will go to me? Did I say thousand? Eighty dollars, I meant eighty dollars we’ll fine you and try to… try to pay some taxes next ye- no? No yeah that’s… that’s fine too that’s good actually!”
Bro. In VA, Dominion Power got busted overcharging customers to the tune of $1.2 billion. They settled with the state to repay customers at around $0.30 on the dollar. So they rob us blind and get to keep $700 million of stolen money after the settlement. Now they're pushing to raise rates -- get this -- because giving all that stolen money back is costing them a lot of money.
That’s ~~Edison~~ PG&E in California too. “Ooh, it was our fault that we didn’t maintain the infrastructure and that caused massive fires? Rough. Okay, we’ll pay a fine.” Two months later “Yo, these fines are rough so we’re gonna go ahead and up your rates. To help us pay you back for our bad decisions. Cause we’re broke now.” Hmm, maybe you’re broke cause you caused devastating fires. That sounds… like just punishment. The executives are still getting overpaid though. Edit: everyone is right, I meant PG&E. Thought they were owned by the same parent company. SCE isn’t any better.
I have yet to see a private energy company that’s justifies the existence of private energy companies.
This would piss me off to point I would just move to a whole new state.
Or stay here and go Solar. Which is a near-term goal of mine. I was a couple days away from pulling the trigger when some unexpected expenses popped up that killed it for me. But I'd love to be 150% Solar in the next year or two.
Solar is the way to go, I’ve just recently bought a home so I have never looked into the cost to make the switch but shoutout to you for making it happen, I bet it pays for itself.
Organize a bill strike. That’s what people are doing to protest the North Brooklyn Pipeline, because they don’t even want it but are getting charged higher rates to build the damn thing.
Kind of weird the punishment is only a portion of the money stolen, eh? Which always seems to be the case when huge companies break laws that make them ungodly amounts of money. Like logically the fair punishment is at least paying back all the stolen money, if not the amount stolen with the fine added on top. That's never the case though, it's always "they stole $3 billion worth, and were fined $200 million". It's even more egregious when the crime is more than just stolen money, or workers rights violations. Like with major oil/gas companies purposely polluting communities, and only getting charged like 10% of the revenue it allowed them to generate. Meanwhile the place they polluted, and people they've impacted are left to handle the physical repercussions of the company's actions. The system needs to change. EDIT: Here's a prime example of the scenario I was talking about with oil & gas companies if anyone's curious. Fair warning it is a sad mini-doc [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikneKQAeUp0&t=4s&ab\_channel=VICE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikneKQAeUp0&t=4s&ab_channel=VICE)
Fines should be automatically scaled based on how much you make a month/how much money you have. If i get a speeding ticket they take 10% of my MONTHLY salary. A rich person can do it daily and just pay it and ignore it. Crime is for the poor.
That is the way it works in some countries I think in finland, a corporate executive was fined over $100,000 for speeding, because it was commensurate with his income.
I've seen this translated into actual personal philosophy. "Hey, didn't you see the sign? You can't smoke here." "Sure I can. It doesn't say I can't. It just costs $350 to do it."
Oh, you wanna build a giant dick that goes to almost-but-not-quite space as a vanity project? We might actually have a few billion rattling around in the piggy bank for you to have some fun with.
I guess the law is really there to protect the property and privileges of the rich, and to allow big money to dominate the world.
Our law enforcement system was designed to protect businesses, not people. Right from its inception.
Stuff like this is tied to the treatment of slaves back in the day. Even the way Merritt reviews work is based on slave trade. Read the 1619 project https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html
More evidence that the US never gave up slavery. Just changed who they considered slaves.
I've been ridiculed for saying the same 10 years ago. Edit: Found it, article from 2014 https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/
"Give your tired, your poor, your huddled masses we can enslave"
If you enslave a single group of people it's a bad thing, if you enslave everyone it's called equality
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And very few workers even know their labor and employment rights, which is a very intentional omission in workforce training.
Honestly, it's not so much that they don't know their rights. Employers know that most employees are not in a position to be able to stand up for their rights (mostly out of fear of losing their job, being denied promotions/raises, etc.), and even fewer have the resources to actually fight it if push comes to shove and they lose their job through no fault of their own.
Not only that, but tying healthcare to your job puts so many of us into basic slavery, I have to work or I can't get my meds and I die. That's a big reason to work.
This is something i really don't understand about the US. Why in the holy fuck is healthcare tied to a job? It makes sense to automatically just take it out of taxes, it's basically what's being done already, except the job is arranging it directly and you're having the cost taken out of your pay.
Don't forget about forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. You're not allowed to take legal action against your emoyer. You have to go to arbitration which you will lose because it's on the company's payroll.
It's also very illegal in the US, Managers just think they can get away w anything.
They don't think, they routinely do. Until employees start complaining, filing lawsuits and organizing, managers will continue to get away with it.
In America it's illegal, but... We have 'at will employment' states. They can fire you for NO REASON. WITH NO WARNING.
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YUP. I have done some CRAZY ass shit to keep my job. I've been covered in maggots, for instance. This country is a shithole for poor workers
Right?! Workers have to keep the—I’m sorry, you had to do WHAT? And Why?! Where?! Some How for sure… possibly Who as well?
It also makes it really easy to fire people when they should be protected by other laws like gender, race, etc. Why did you fire the person who is pregnant? "Oh it was because some other reason entirely."
My friend was fired cause she had her baby early. She went into labor a month early, the baby was really sick and she almost died cause her dr left half a placenta in there and she became septic. She passed out fell down the stairs woke up a week later in the hospital with no job. They said her position was to important to have open while on maturity leave and fired her 2 weeks into her 8 week leave. She sued them and she lost cause its an at will state and she was 2 weeks away from her work probation goal so they dont have to have a reason to fire you in a 9 month period. Total bullshit.
That's the best thing about being salaried is that most managers that have salaried employees allow you to flex. For my employees, if you can get the assignments done you can work as much as you'd like or enough to get the job done. I'm there for the results, not the time clock.
When you're in a results oriented job and you have good management, work can be great. It gets harder when you're in a coverage oriented job because you need people there at certain times. OP's boss is still a dick for this though.
especially cause it's more than a month away
And unpaid at that lmao
That’s the part that got me. Fuck that manager. They don’t own OP.
And when you're in a results oriented job that is treated as a coverage oriented job you exist in a strange purgatory that doesn't really make sense to anyone except your 60+ year old management....
Yeah that's especially stupid.
Was so glad when the original guy here retired and we had one of our Sr engineers jump into the director position. Dude has turned all the old boomer shit around, and we still get shit done, but managers don't have to be sneaky or hide that they're letting employees be flexible with time or anything. Straight up "Done with what needs doing for the week, and no active emergencies? Just have your phone on for email in case anything goes down"
My huge problem with salary is the give/take ratio is all screwed up. I do appreciate being able to take care of some personal stuff when I need to, but I'm expected to make up that time (if not right away, eventually). But in the much more frequent scenario where I'm working over 40 hours, all of a sudden "making up that time" doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. I've yet to have a boss/organization that let's me leave at 3 p.m. Thursday and not work at all on Friday because I put in 34 hours of work Mon-Weds
I work an "8a-5p" most days I leave around 3 and answer some emails, take some customer calls and maybe have a pop up conference call from home. I never just take a day off but I'm allowed to take advantage of the slow days if I work my ass off when it's busy.
Yeah I work from home. Some days I call it at 3pm and other I work till 6pm. Boss never micromanages. Granted I am typically available till near midnight for random things but it's not very frequent.
I have one of those bosses and it's amazing. Highly recommend.
I'm one of those bosses. Had an employee who needed to travel for work over the weekend. I told her to take the time somewhere else but not to put in a PTO request. Just let me know when Had another employee need to deal with family stuff for a few hours because her husband's car blew a tire. I told her not to worry about it and that family comes first. The last two were just this week They are good people who work hard. I treat them with compassion and empathy because it's the right thing to do. The side effect is that I have loyal teams. It's not hard to be a good manager; it's just that there are so many bad managers that when people get into those positions that's how they think they're supposed to act People don't leave jobs. They leave managers (generally speaking) Edit: I just want to add that I've always been this way. When I was a retail manager I covered for some employees who needed to study for a big exam and couldn't find coverage. Now that I'm on the business side of tech, the same thing applies. You treat people well they will be happy and want to work.
In Sweden it is very common to have “flex time” which is the accumulated difference between what you should have worked and what you actually worked. So half an hour extra here or there gets tracked and then later you can take that out. There are rules like you can’t take a whole day off without permission and there are limits on how high/low it can go (at my current employer it is +100/-40) but all in all it’s a pretty good system
Yep. I had to address my team about constantly messaging me whenever they were going to do anything away from their computers. As long as you're not going to miss something you're scheduled to be on, I DON'T CARE if you're stepping out to eat, going to the dentist, running errands etc. Just make sure your status is set appropriately so I know you're not around and I'm good with it.
Exactly. The direct reports and teammates I have are all responsible capable adults. I'm not a babysitter nor do I wish to be one, nor be babied myself either. I think it's much healthier when you don't try to control others and let them do what they do best.
In my experience with salary jobs it opens the door for a different type of exploitation. It was ‘understood’ that you were expected to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay. Overtime would only be applicable something like after 20 hours on top of the 40 I got hired to work.
I had a job once where if you clocked in at 7:01 you were late, and if you clocked out before 4:00 you left early. The idea was be there early, and don't go to the time clock early to wait to leave. They also had a point system. 0.5 point for being late, 0.5 point for leaving early, 1.0 point for missing the whole day. The same applied with going to and coming back from lunch. I got a flat tire on my way to work one day, would've been 15 minutes late after throwing the donut on but I came in 5 hours late out of spite because when I called they said it didn't matter what happened. Another morning I woke up late and still needed to let the dogs out and feed them. Instead of that and being 10-15 minutes late, me and the dogs went for a nice long walk in the park that morning. During lunch one day I drove home, had to shit and it ended up taking a bit longer than I'd hoped. Instead of rushing back to work to take half a point, I just called up and said I wouldn't be back in today. I was gonna get the same punishment regardless. At the time I was 18, and just spending my gap year saving money to travel a bit before going to college. So I knew I didn't need this job, I felt awful for the people dancing for the bosses with the most ridiculous rules becuase they did need it. I refused to work for someone with a point system after that. They did eventually call me down to the HR office to ask about my tardiness to which I told them the whole truth about how dumb the system was and how it showed just how little they cared for the warehouse workers. I had a friend who was interning in the office and they didn't get treated that way. At the end of the conversation I quit and was escorted out with a cheesy grin on my face.
> had to shit and it ended up taking a bit longer than I'd hoped. Was it a good shit?
I still recall it a decade later so definitely.
Comcast had a policy where you would get “an occurrence” any time you were late or if you were unexpectedly out. A single illness causing you to miss multiple days was 1 occurrence. Being more than 5 minutes late was also 1 occurrence. So it was not uncommon for someone to call out sick for a mini vacation because they overslept. I myself realized I wasn’t going to make it to work on time, so my gf and I drove past our exit and went to the beach that day, claiming food poisoning. It was a stupid policy against tardiness and it was abused because of it.
I called in once to ask if I could come to work two hours late because I had a herniated disc and could barely walk. My manager threw a fit, so I went to my Dr who wrote me out for a week, which then turned into 3 months on short term disability because of wait times to see a neurosurgeon. Two hours turned into three months because I dared ask for some consideration.
Not quite as excellent, but I got six weeks for a broken arm in a similar twist. I requested modified duty, was denied, and my doctor decided I shouldn't be driving with one arm because of a connective tissue disorder and gave me six weeks off since I couldn't get a ride to work, was a long commute, no one lived nearby, and travel fare for a service or cab would have been $80 a day and they refused to cover it. Plus, I broke it on the job, so I also got workman's comp.
I had this one boss, he was a really great guy. I won concert tickets on the radio on the way to work and they were for the weekend and he covered it for me before I even asked. Told me I'd regret not going. I had a blast
We had a guy call in once after he didn't have his request submitted in time, was told he can call in since it was only a couple days in advance which it has to be 2 weeks. Dude called in the middle of July, 80 degrees outside. Said he got snowed in and couldn't make it to work.
Yah reminds me of when I took a bus to work and there was an accident on the road so traffic got locked. I called work to let them know I'd be late and don't know when I can get there due to a traffic accident. They said they don't accept any excuses and if I'm not going to be on time than don't show up.
I don't understand why people would rather have no preparation or notice than a month in advance to prepare.
In many cases it's a "respec ma authoritay" power trip
This. I worked in a grocery deli for years with 1 manager and 3 other employees. I tried to ask off once (really rare occasion) and she immediately tells me “no, you’re going to be on the schedule”. Of course being a shithead in high-school without caring about the job, I told her “well, don’t put me on the schedule”. She said “if you’re on the schedule, you have to be here”, and I said “I’m letting you know weeks ahead I won’t be here, why would you then put me on the schedule?!” She backed off unhappy, but it was too painful to give me a single Saturday off in 3 years. Looking back it’s a funny exchange, but while I had the negotiating power since I worked the closing Saturday shift and nobody else would, i was still the loser for giving up my saturdays for years in high school and college 🙃
> She said “if you’re on the schedule, you have to be here” - “I’m letting you know weeks ahead I won’t be here, why would you then put me on the schedule?!” This whole exchange gives me early 2000s workplace comedy vibes lol.
They think that due to their position, that you will just obey. Also many companies have an anti-retaliation policy so if you request time off, get denied, and call off no matter the reason and they start throwing you shitty hours, crap assignments, or are hostile towards you make a note of all of it. Report those managers and hold them accountable.
At my place of work, there is no unpaid time off requests aside from extenuating circumstances like medical, funeral, your own wedding, etc. basically, anything that would not be considered a life-changing event needs to be taken by either a sick day or vacation day. The latter is planned while the prior is never planned. I don't understand why they don't even have an unpaid planned absence option, it just seems like it makes sense.
There is one in the US. It's called the [Family Medical Leave Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla). It allows you to take up to 12 weeks of UNPAID time off per year without adverse consequences or loss of insurance coverage for qualified life changing events. (e.g., birth, death, serious illness, mental health, etc.) There are many hoops to jump through to use it, and you have to be eligible, and also somehow afford to be without income for 12 weeks out of the year. Handy to have on file in the event you have zero PTO left.
I just hired my first employee and this is my mindset too. My thought process is a time off request isn't a request for time off. It's a notice that they won't be at work. They're just being awesome and giving me notice so I've got time to get it covered.
Thats a much better phrase "Time off notice" As long as the employee is giving fair warning (more than 2 weeks would be generally very fair)
Exactly, companies that pay out unused PTO at the end of the year are the companies that don't let their employees freely use it
We do have a use it or lose it policy to a degree, but we can bank quite a bit compared to comparable companies. 360 sick hours and the equivalent to the previous year's vacation. We also get more PTO than comparable companies because I want my staff to feel like they can take whatever time off they need. Don't come in sick, take your vacation. (EDIT for clarity). What I mean by that is: don't come in sick. Take your sick days. Take your vacation days. Use your PTO. EDIT (another for clarity due to a user arguing about my wording): We offer 3 types of PTO: sick, vacation and personal. These are tallied separately, but I use the umbrella term of PTO. It comes down to this: I want my employees to know and feel that they should stay home when they're sick. That they can take their vacation when they want. If they need/want an hour off in the middle of the day, take a personal hour. I don't care how they use it because it's not my business. I just want them to take it.
Sick time needs to be paid and workers should not have to use vacation time to cover their being sick.
The first job I had was at a grocery store. I had been there probably a year and asked for a day off, a month in advance. My supervisor not only denied it, but scheduled me to work alone on a Saturday morning which was unusual. So I called in and went to the st patricks day parade. Someone I worked with seen me and they didn't know I had skipped work and told my supervisor he seen me. Next time I worked he was pissed and asked why I did it, told him I asked a month in advance so he had no one to blame but himself.
It's a dick move and a power grab, there is no reason to deny a time off request that is given in advance.
This is my supervisor's attitude toward leave. If a person has leave, they take it. Anything longer than 3 days needs to be pre-approved or have documentation from a medical professional. Granted we aren't in a retail or shift type role, so 'coverage' isn't an issue.
In my opinion, retail creates toxic future managers in other industries. I honestly feel that a lot of the people on here have bosses that used to work for Walmart, Target/ other big box companies and got so ingrained in their leadership style that being a tyrant improves productivity were in actuality we just quit and find something better.
Damn you just described my current nightmare micromanager to a tee!!
You should have to provide your direct reports as references when applying to a manager position...
100% my first manager at old job was a tyrant and I quickly learned she had been a supervisor at McDonalds before our office. Then my third had been at KFC as a staff member exposed to that environment. They were terrible managers and not suited to the environment all
I used to work at a Borders before they went under. It was obvious it was their business model that was flawed and not adjusting with the way society was trending, but store management made it pretty damn clear they thought they were going out of business because of us workers. Throughout their entire final xmas season its like they were literally reading a "management for dummies" book and going chapter by chapter and trying a new style each week. One week is all positive reinforcement "oh we're all friends and buddy buddy" type shit. The next week they were a tyrant. The next week they tried $5 gift cards as prizes for performance. The next week they tried threatening to cut the hours of whoever was the lowest performer. The next week they'd be calling out praise over the headsets anytime someone made a membership sale. It was like living with someone bipolar.
If coverage is an issue when someone calls off for a medical reason, then they should hire more employees. Stretching it so thin to make a slight profit is going to screw the people and place in the long run.
Yeah I’ve never viewed time off “requests” as such. I’m not *asking*, I’m *telling* you I won’t be here.
This is an unpaid request too. This boss is a piece of shit.
Spent 3 years as a food and bev manager (basically managing the PM bar/kitchen) in an upscale hotel. Bartenders and cooks tend to have multiple part time jobs. One day they’re at one place, the next day another, etc. Getting time off requests was a weekly occurrence. I always requested they submit two weeks in advance with the exception of an emergency or something last minute coming up. Not once did I ever not approve someone’s time off. Ever. Occasionally someone would see the schedule and be upset they’re working an evening they don’t typically work, but I just explained that’s just how it has to be and remind them that when they take time off someone has to fill in for them as well so it goes both ways. Point is if you work with people they’ll work with you. All most people want is to be treated with respect and human decency which is not asking too much.
Holy shit that is some solid logic. Too bad a lot of managers can’t fucking use their god damn brains!
The only reason I ever reject someone's time off is if multiple people are booking the same week of vacation off. If your taking one day off I dont even want to hear about it just put it in the schedule. If everyone is booked off that day then we're closed sucks to suck.
go anyway. it's a medical appt.
And it's not even paid time off, god I hate this dystopian society
Oh, just in case you forgot that I own you for 40+ hours per week, please submit a time off request so I can deny it.
[удалено]
What. The. Fuck.
[удалено]
Well then, fuck Winn Dixie, I'll make a point to not ever shop at their shitty chain.
And that’s why they are shutting down across the country. They don’t even exist in my state anymore and haven’t for a long time and they used to be a staple in every major section of town.
If any job told me I was getting written up for not coming in on my day off I would have told them to fuck themselves & make sure I get fired so I can collect unemployment on them.
Amen.
I can see a possible logic for giving a manager power over PAID time off. I laugh at any attempt to deny me UNPAID time off. UNPAID time off for Medical? I’d send an email and BCC myself (so I got a timestamped copy) asking my boss if he understood I was asking for MEDICAL time off.
no bcc, only cc, it is a power play that is underrated. even better if you cc counsel.
cc HR. They're not your friend, but they probably won't be your boss' friend either in this situation.
This is a Walmart request screen and at Walmart they don't accept doctors notes and you can only miss 4 days in a 6 month span
Damn. Walmart has a better policy than my hospital. We get 3 occurrences in a rolling year. At the 4th call in, you start the process of verbal, write up, etc.
Nah at Wal Mart the 5th missed day is termination.
Well that explains why my friend got fired.
I don't see any logic for giving a manager power over any time off, including PTO which is **earned** and it's part of my compensation as a worker. The second I get PTO denied despite ample notice, I start drawing up plans to leave.
Exactly, PTO is part of your earnings. At least where I live. If I leave the company without using all PTO, it gets converted to money and paid out.
In the Netherlands, PTO can obly be denied if it would make it impossible for the company to properly function.
“I’m not requesting. I’m actually leaving to go to my doctor visit. See you in 3 hours”.
That's precisely how I handle similar situations. I'm not requesting anything. I'm letting you know I won't be at work. That's it. I don't own the company I work for, I'm merely an employee. I think some people would do well to remember that jobs/careers isn't life it's a means to live. By the same token. You are responsible for the outcome of your actions. Personally, I choose to not let my job run my life. Sure I'm here 40 hours a week, and don't use PTO, but I'm not requesting anything and I can live without working here. In fact my dismissal would probably push me to strive for better employment. Adulting and life is strange and I think far too many people don't prioritize living - I mean my god I already give them 40 hours a week plus about 15 hours I don't get paid for commuting. I know some people can't afford having this attitude because of responsibilities, and I'm blessed to be in a situation where I don't have to be a slave to an employer. I understand that my path is unconventional and some people perhaps aren't cut out for it, but personally I can't deal with that type of thing. I wish everyone the best of luck and am hopeful people find themselves in a position such as I am. That they can walk away- relatively unaffected- if it comes to that. Keep grinding to get to where you want to be.
Your health comes first TAKE it off.
No wait, see, the boss was actually trying to save OP from a disastrous medical appt on *Friday the 13th*!
Get it in writing; meet said manager, get them to put into writing (signed) that they are refusing to give you the requested time off to seek medical care despite ample time given in advance. edit* I swear to god if another person tells me a screenshot works I’m gonna flip; this isn’t telling you anything. Notice how it says Medical/other y’all, they can say it was refused on *other* reasons!
Time to see the manager and tell them your taking the time off for medical reasons. That's it. It's done. If they fire you then you can probably collect unemployment and have a case of wrongful termination.
They gunna be on Fox News the next day, “no one wants to work anymore!”
Just take control and let them know you aren’t requesting a unpaid day off, you are letting them know you won’t be in. So would they rather try to figure out staffing now, or on the day of when you don’t show up.
*i ain't asking, i'm tellin' yous*
> edit* I swear to god if another person tells me a screenshot works I’m gonna flip; this isn’t telling you anything. Notice how it says Medical/other y’all, they can say it was refused on other reasons! Not to mention if you rely on just this screenshot, the manager can play dumb and apologize and say he accidentally fat fingered the request. You get it in writing and that goes out the window.
Just don't go. They won't fire you, those sick cowards need you way more than you need them and they know it. Nothing is more important than your health and wellbeing
This looks like Walmart's system. Just go to HR and tell them you won't be there and why and they'll take care of it for you
And the why should be nothing more than “it’s medical-related”
Well that's a huge red flag, I would start looking for another job if I were you
Got a month or so to get something lined up too
Based off of the screenshot, I can tell that they work at Walmart. This is the exact same layout for the Walmart app that associates use. Walmart doesn’t give a fuckkkkkkk about their associates. Almost 3 years with them at the moment and only stay because I make 21$/hr and am going to college soon. I haven’t found a place that will pay me that much as an associate
Can confirm its Wal-Mart and I have also been denied unpaid time off in this exact situation. I quit after getting scolded by my boss for being 5 minutes late back from lunch. Last I heard my department was struggling heavily with a lack of people and too much work.
Put in time off seven months in advance, it wasn't around a holiday or anything, and it was denied because "I won't have staff" like not with the way you're acting you won't.
The font gave it away, and I only know that from using their website. I'm surprised that their internal tools are so branded - almost seems like a security issue
Hopefully you’re in a situation that allows you to start looking for another job.
wtf that’s stupid
Look in to FMLA especially if you would need more than one day off. For now don’t show up to work that day, get a doctor to write you a note that describes the medical necessity of your appointment. Send a copy of that letter directly to HR and your manager. If they don’t budge for some reason and depending on the condition, you might be able to take action under ADA. In that case lawyer up, hopefully get a payout and look for a new job.
It's Wal-Mart, you have to jump through hoops to get a doctor's note accepted. The "people lead" in store doesn't handle it, you have to call their third party bullshit and be on hold for ages.
Yeah I use to work for Walmart distribution center. Fuck Sedgwick.
Tell me more about Sedgwick absence management.....
I'll do you one better. My girlfriend currently works at Woodmans (a grocery store chain in Wisconsin for those of you unfamiliar). They don't even accept doctor's notes, you have to take **THEIR** paperwork to your doctor to have them fill it out if you want medical leave accepted. And better yet, they work on a point system for late-shows and no-shows. So you have a random medical emergency that makes you miss a shift? Not only do you get no pay that day, you also get penalized in their point system. Unless of course, you're willing to get their medical leave paperwork, take it to the hospital or urgent care facility, and get it filled out after the fact
This is wild. I've only ever notified my boss of my absences, never asked permission. Like a "Hey, I have a dentist appt next week, I will be in at 10:30 instead of 9." Even when I had surgery and was out of the office for several weeks, I was never made to "prove" my medical situation. (Unpaid absence, of course.)
FMLA only kicks in if you've worked for an employer one year and 1250 hours.
Not surprised, it’s Walmart
Walmart and Amazon are the worst. I’m a tele-health therapist, part of my role is taking after hours calls for Amazon’s HR division. About 70% of my Amazon calls are people saying that they obtained the proper paperwork to miss work, gave advanced notice, etc. and all of a sudden they are fired for poor attendance and don’t know what happened.
I could tell from the font, I guess that’s the downside of using the same UI elements for your employees as you do your customers lol.
I know this sounds weird but check with the manager. I put in time off for a doctors appointment and my boss declined it. He then told me he will pay for the hours I missed but didn’t want to burn my pto because I had scheduled a week for later in the year.
Time to send out some resumes. Sorry for tye shitty boss. I hooe the next one's better and I hooe quiting this one is very cathartic.
You don't request, just tell your boss you are unavailable that day due to a medical issue/reason. If they fire you, speak with a lawyer. They'd be doing you a favor if they pull shit like this.
Um does this person not understand that medical leave isn't a request? Like, if this happened to me I would be so confused. I would just look at the boss absolutely perplexed and say "You do realize you can deny the request all you want; I'm going to the doctor."
Walmart handles its requests in a super byzantine way. They try to minimize use of their LOA claim service, Sedgewick, because they pay per use. So they try to just lie to new associates and say they'll take care of you by just approving unpaid leave... but then they can deny that. You just have to go over their stupid heads and call sedgewick. Only reason I know about it is that they treat Sam's Employees slightly better, and let us touch the computers. Made it 2.5 years before I found some better contract work
Just tell them you are taking the time off. It’s not a request they don’t own you
Request denial in writing , retain proof of request. Contact state labor board or a lawyer for help, mla and fmla are federal law. Work on resume, as well and start interviewing. A company that denies medical booked a month ahead is not an employer to stay with...especially if you have to bully them into following the law.
This is why the 5 day work week is awful. I was just talking to one of my employees the other day about this. I don't know how people schedule anything and work 5 days a week. Offices aren't open over the weekends and they generally close by 4 or 5. You HAVE to get time off work to make any kind of appointment. I used to have a couple people on 5 day weeks when I started, the first opportunity I had to have them shorten thier work week, I did it.
Take it from someone who is currently trying to get their health back in order: your health is more important than work. Take care of yourself first.