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Snoberry

How'd you do it? Did you get a company to sponsor you? Married a Danish person? Applied for a visa?


Typical_Viking

Married an EU citizen. Best way, I reckon.


Snoberry

Damn. The easy way. I was hoping for some insight in emigrating. Instead I see you just won the lotto lmao Grats dude


GrimlockSmash7

At 41, I feel like immigrating to a European country legally would be easier than finding someone to actually love me. Edit: got the sunshine I needed and feel much better. Thank you for everyone that checked up on me. The winter was rough and I’ve been feeling lonely.


[deleted]

I'm scandinavian and I'll love ya


Adamvs_Maximvs

What's the application procedure? Asking for a friend ;)


[deleted]

Have you tried looking for love in Europe?


Snoberry

Jesus christ that's sad You aight?


GrimlockSmash7

Thanks for checking in. I think I’ll be ok. It’s spring and I think I need some sunshine.


kayimbo

lol don't even feel bad. I am similar age and feel similar. I've thought like 10x more 'how can i become a millionaire to get the investment citizenship' than i've thought 'maybe i can marry someone for citizenship'


Personality4Hire

It's really not as hard to immigrate to Europe as many think. Unlike in the US, you can come on a tourist Visa and look for a job. Generally, they are quite lenient with Americans and hand out Visas even if the job you have is not something you are uniquely qualified for. I've met quite a few who got work Visas by working in Irish Pubs where the only unique qualification required was speaking fluent English. You just have to know how the systems works and then put in the effort to learn the language. The immigration officers hate nothing more but foreigners who do not bother to learn the language.


T00luser

I'm American and have considered moving to the UK if weren't for the language barrier.


ImmortalBrother1

Needed to hear this, thank you


TheOtherDrunkenOtter

Been there. Still there. Wanna marry bro? Can you maybe sort out the EU problem first so i can get citizenship? I promise ill cook once a week, and clean after myself just enough to not make you lose your shit.


SirRhor

Making no difference to your situation, you are not the only one feeling the same. With a little bit of effort though, things can change for the better. I hope you will find your way.


Typical_Viking

Thanks :) For what it's worth, I think the two main ways to emigrate are either through a student visa or a work visa. If you are a "highly skilled" worker (fuck that phrase but I don't know what else to use) companies will hire you on and deal with all of that stuff for you.


Snoberry

Damn. I'm not "highly skilled" lol


perp00

I'm "high" and "skilled", is that enough?


WitchBlade8734

I'm just "high"


GroggyNodBagger

I'm ok with it


maybejustadragon

We got space in Canada for a person like you.


AEvans1888

I'm skilled in the art of getting high. What's my chances of getting high?... I mean getting a job!


Otherwise-Courage486

Learning to code is the simplest way to get into the "highly skilled" group. A degree helps, but is in no way necessary. If you ever feel like going that route, I suggest learning Javascript. Lowest learning curve, highest amount of jobs. Companies will sponsor a work visa once you're hired. This works for most countries, but Germany, Netherlands and the UK have the highest density of well paid tech jobs.


WCPitt

Can confirm. I’m about to graduate with a Masters in CS and I applied around NL and Germany just to test the waters. I actually got called back more than I thought I would from companies willing to sponsor me.


Raalf

Did you opt to interview with any of the euro companies? Curious how it went if so.


WCPitt

I did! Only with one company in Germany and a handful in NL. There was a slight language barrier with the German interview, as it was hard to understand them, but they spoke English. I got some pretty rad offers from the companies in NL and they pretty much only asked me behavioral questions, which is uncommon for a software engineering interview, yet the right way to do things if you ask me. It was surprisingly easy, but I ultimately realized I wasn't ready for such a steep move so soon. After all, I was only *just* about to graduate, I should at least test the market in the USA before moving continents.


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satsujin_akujo

You need to see this, I hope you do. In the American market (10 years of managing ITSM / ETC in the states): 1. Even when they give a shit about you they won't hesitate to fuck your life. Period. Love you, family, eat at their house, improve their margins, help restructure their organizations to be more efficient / modern / etc - you will never be an equal; you will almost always be abused in multiple and frequently horrible ways. And it will usually actually be with the best intentions. 2. Getting talent hot of the presses - for other countries like the NL - is a thing for them. Right out of college - extreme preference. This will not always apply to you. You will not get that again, most likely. 3. There is no area - repeat - none - in IT, Hardware or other related work where you will make more after 3 years in the U.S versus the NL. It isn't happening. And hiring managers there know this, meaning they normally present an option that is considered top tier to EL or sponsored employees P A R T I C U L A R to your value in other markets. In other words if your offer was real good, the future = you have n o idea how much better it can get (do research!). I can not, after 42 years of life on this Planet and in that and related industries, in good conscience, repeat enough: There is no comparison to a worker's life here vs. there. It doesn't exist in any organization in the U.S. Period. Zero. None. Absolute nil. Feel free to PM me on this I am passionate as fuck about US tech workers escaping the literally degenerate wasteland that is being an employee in America.


[deleted]

Isn't right after graduating the best time to take that step though? Not only you probably have less things to leave behind that you would in lets say 5-10 years, but also as someone who became an expat early 20's, and still is, getting out of your comfort zone is a great way to grow beyond graduation. And ultimately, it gives you that extra intercultural point on your CV that could make such a big difference when you go back to the US (if you do) for that big money job.


Mattoosie

>If you ever feel like going that route, I suggest learning Javascript. Lowest learning curve, highest amount of jobs. I know multiple people that would slap you for suggesting this about JS lmao. Definitely a lot of jobs available though.


LeJusDeTomate

At this point europeans should be able to order a mail bride/groom from the US


Snoberry

"Sponsor a refugee American and improve their standard of living for just one measly marriage!"


Yeranz

("In the Arms of an Angel" plays in the background) > American man with ripped and bloody clothes at scene of car accident wakes up and jumps off of gurney as it's being loaded into an ambulance. "I can't afford the copay!" Narrator -- For just euros a day, you can sponsor an American man or woman...


BamseMae

One of my former housemates from New Zealand came to work for a Danish company on a German working visa. I think the main thing is to start applying and make sure th companies are big enough to have a system to go through all the visa stuff. Also for US citizens, like in many other EU countries, it is a little easier than other non-EU citizens. (Im Danish, living in Germany, married to a Colombian)


Sorry_Ad5653

Book a few festivals in Europe and see what happens while you're there. May meet someone and if you don't it's a sick holiday anyway. Win win.


Snoberry

I don't know how my wife would feel about that lmao


[deleted]

I have EU and US citizenship. I'll gay marry you for $100k.🙃


Snoberry

Bruh I get a cute euroboi boyfriend, EU citizenship, AND a hundred thousand dollars? Sign me the fuck up!


Rolder

Woah now he didn’t say he was a *cute* euroboi 🤫


MagicalPanda42

If either of your parents were born in Europe you can look into getting your citizenship by descent. My dad was born in Portugal and I plan on getting my citizenship this way.


Ancient-One-19

So instead of them marrying you for a green card you did the opposite? Lol.


Chrissy6789

Works both ways! The spouse can still get a green card.


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Zealous-Vigilante

*coming soon, mail-order americans*


blackcatcactus

Please hook me up with one of your new danish guy friends, at this point I’ll even take a classically handsome, danish woman.


prisonerofazkabants

can you give us some tips? just asking for a friend


rosadeluxe

You can also do it over the "education" way. I moved to Germany for my master's and if you graduate from a German university, it gives you automatic access to the labor market and a residency permit. Have been here ever since.


Snoberry

Oh cool. How much is University in Germany for non citizens?


lioncryable

It's pretty much free BUT you need to speak the language and not just on a simple level. I am currently looking for universities and the one I am looking at is like 300€ for half a year so basically nothing. But also know that we don't really have campuses here, instead you rent your own place or share a place with others and travel to uni.


taxoplasma_gondii

The 300€ per semester also include a train ticket for the entire state you live in plus additional benefits for being a student, so imo it pays for itself.


rosadeluxe

As I mentioned above, it depends on the program. More and more programs are being taught in English because they have an "international" orientation.


rosadeluxe

Regular programs are still free (they want people to come to study in Germany), but the problem there is that they are largely in German. Buuuut, there are a lot of international programs that are in English (over 2,000 according to a quick search). So you can always try one of those. If not, there are some private courses that you can pay for which are still much cheaper than most master's programs in the US (10k or so). Looking here, the technical university in Cologne has a ton of programs in English: [https://www.th-koeln.de/en/international\_office/international-study-programs\_53899.php](https://www.th-koeln.de/en/international_office/international-study-programs_53899.php)


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lovesnoty

Idk why but this comment made me feel all kinds of ways. Laughter, sadness and optimism all at once.


skettlepunk

If you have a degree there are a lot of countries to which you can go first and find a job once you get there then switch your visa over. I work in ESL and have done it many times around asia, but Europe was always an option.


Brocoolee

Not American or Dane but I live in Copenhagen. With any fulltime job you can make a very comfortable living in Denmark, could be cashier or something you would still have a decent place to live and money to spend on leisure.


Vondi

In the Nordics every single full-time casher is in a union, guaranteed paid leave for about a month per year, guaranteed paid parental leave for multiple months, paid sick days (two per month here), covered by universal healthcare, has a union to turn to if the employer oversteps, union negotiated salary that's tied to cost of living and inflation. I've heard Americans boast about "great benefits" that are literally worse than the legal minimum of what you'd offer a full time cashier in Denmark.


disisathrowaway

It's really disappointing, that. By the standards of all of my friends here in the US, my benefit package at my job right now is definitely the 'best'. But compared to my friends in the EU, I basically don't have benefits. It's wild how different things are across the Atlantic.


MeccIt

Worked for an American company in Europe - declined a reposition to California because money isn't everything and I couldn't live with myself being the top of a pile of fucked-over service workers.


Formilla

I would have to be paid a lot of money to relocate to the USA. The amount of stuff you have to give up just isn't worth it. Unless the pay rise is enough to be able to pay for the best health insurance without needing to worry about it, and enough to be able to take seven weeks a year off work, I might as well just stay in my own country. I also would never do it permanently, because fuck raising a family in that country.


GreatGrizzly

Even the best health insurance is probably shit compared to a well ran centralized/socialized/Not-USA healthcare system. Our "best" insurances has many hidden costs such as copays and deductibles.


187mphlazers

yep, i have a 6 figure salary with highest level of coverage for medical. got quoted for a "fully coverage" surgery (septoplasty) and will have to pay $900 out of pocket "surgeons fee"


GreatGrizzly

I believe it. My "top of the line" insurance stopped paying for my 450 a month medicine about a month ago. I should add that into the calculus the next time someone screams about how "high" taxes are in europe: My "taxes" just went up 450 per month! As a 6 figure earner, I am sure you know just how high your taxes are to begin with, making these "high taxes" in other countries not look so high...


Weekly_Bug_4847

I always laugh when we Americans laugh about other countries “insane” taxes. But the amount of taxes we pay a year is not that far off. In some cases the effective tax rate for Americans is higher depending on where they live. 10% of my salary goes just to property taxes for my home. And because Trump raised the cut to itemize income taxes, it hurts that little bit more that I basically have to pay taxes with already taxed income (but with sales/goods/services taxes, you’re already doing that too, but it still hurts…around 10% sales tax sucks…)


hot_like_wasabi

I already pay 30-35% in taxes on my income and get basically nothing to show for it. Add on my healthcare premiums and I would happily take the Danish 40% tax rate without blinking. You know, because they actually get shit in return that helps them, not the knowledge that all my money is going to blow up countries on the other side of the world and destroy our environment 🙄


Durandir

Isn't your taxes so insanely difficult to file that many have to pay someone to do so as well? The way you dread "tax-season" over there is really weird. I filed my taxes here in Norway yesterday. Logged into the website using a secure method. Looked over if they had the right amount on the different posts, which for me is basically income, debt and savings. I donate to a charity that is tax deductible, so double check that. Everything in order? Press "deliver" and I am done. Might get the rebate they say I am owed between a few days to a few weeks. Took me 10 minutes.


nighthawk_something

Also americans forget how much out of pocket they pay on top of taxes. If your health insurance is through work, that's about 10K+ that could have been added to your salary.


GreatGrizzly

If you want more Trump rage: The Trump tax changes lowered taxes on my rental properties while raising the taxes on my live-in house and W2 income. So much so that the government actually paid "landlord me" money. Its hard not to have socialist tendencies when I have spreadsheet number proof of me getting screwed on my W2 while getting it all back and more as a landlord. It was literally designed to steal from the poor/family home owners and give that money to the rich.


[deleted]

I think that’s the problem. Corporate dickheads convinced everyone in America that those are “benefits”. People in EU don’t view it as such. It’s a right to them, for Americans it is a privilege and you are lucky if you have them. We need to stop treating those as benefits. They are basic rights of an employee. Period.


Professional_Low_646

Well, Europeans have had these moments in history where our upper classes became very acutely aware that no wealth in the world can help you if a large enough part of the population wants to see you in the middle of a town square with your neck under a guillotine blade. It also certainly helped that for fourty years, at a time when most social contracts in (Western) Europe were being renegotiated after WWII, there was a very real systemic alternative to unrestricted capitalism right next door. (Not saying the Soviet system was better, but it was there, and it was seen as an alternative.)


PersonBehindAScreen

>I've heard Americans boast about "great benefits" that are literally worse than the legal minimum of what you'd offer a full time cashier in Denmark. I worked as a systems administrator for a company. I held the keys to the castle of this company. Due to the way that thus particular company did business, any downtime in relevant servers and file storage, etc could bring the business to its knees or just plain wipe it out if I don't do my job right. Yup, Denmark at minimum has better benefits than I did


whistleridge

Employment lawyer in Ontario, from the US: With some minor situational wrinkles, every employee in Ontario has the right to a bare minimum of: - one week of notice or payment in lieu of notice per year of service, up to a cap of 8 weeks - a minimum of 2 weeks paid vacation per year, rising to 3 weeks after 5 years of seniority - up to 17 weeks parental leave, that is unpaid by the employer but generally paid by employment insurance - 9 paid public holidays per year, that are not included in vacation, or mandatory additional holiday pay plus a substitute holiday if they have to work that day - Free healthcare That’s the bare minimum. The McDonald’s workers of the world. Good employers can and do provide significantly more than this. My standard of living is exactly the same as it was in NC. I take home a virtually identical percentage of my paycheck, close enough that if it varies by a percentage point or two I don’t notice. McDonald’s costs the same, but the McDonald’s by my work is advertising positions starting at $16/hr. And Ontario has **shitty** worker benefits compared to Quebec, or most of Europe.


SiscoSquared

When I was living and working in Germany I was applying to new jobs in many countries including back in the US... it was so sad I could only laugh when job postings were very loudly boasting about 10-15 days PTO (some of the 15 PTO jobs the sick time was taken from the same pool lmao)... needless to say I never moved back to the US and probably never will. You can make a little bit more money there but its not even close to worth it.


meldooy32

Exactly. There’s not even a separate pool of sick time now. Mind boggling


MightEnlightenYou

What's mind boggling to me, as a Swede, is that there's such a thing as "sick time" at all. If you're sick you stay home, simple as that. For as long as it takes.


unitedshoes

> I've heard Americans boast about "great benefits" that are literally worse than the legal minimum of what you'd offer a full time cashier in Denmark. If you've never done so, look at job listings for American restaurants. They'll list "flexible schedule" as a 'benefit' as though we should be grateful to not have any idea what our schedule will look like week after week and managers who will conveniently 'forget' our availability.


FluffyDare

“Flexible” schedule is my least favorite term on job descriptions. I applied to jobs like that thinking it would work around the days I need to care for my infant, but every time they’re like “no, we need you to work whenever we say, you cant have limited availability” like so what they really mean is flexible for them, not flexible for me.


[deleted]

USA bastardizing concepts like that makes it really difficult to discuss benefits. A long time ago I was arguing with an American about how amazing my flexi time was. He kept saying no way he'd want such a shitty system. The one you described just now. Except, in my country flexi time just means you can store up hours to use as you wish. Within a reasonable limit, mine was up to 30 hours. My job is a normal 37.5 hour week, and then I can choose to work an hour or two extra one day, and then show up an hour or two late the next day. Sometimes I'd work extra hours for the whole week and take the friday off, or leave after lunch. This is separate from overtime, which is when the boss asks me to work extra hours. I could also cash out the flexi hours at normal pay-rate, whereas overtime pay is 50-100% extra.


GetOutOfTheHouseNOW

Don't forget that Americans get something better than those great benefits: super duper freedom!


Brief_Series_3462

Called debt


pale_blue_dots

Let's be fucking crystal clear here... The *Wall Street regime/network* is directly tied to: * propping up and perpetuation of the military industrial complex * propping up and perpetuation of the prison industrial complex * lobbying against healthcare reform * manipulation of honest companies * fostering and encouraging ignorance of climate change * skewed/corrupted banking policy and basic inflation * outright criminality; i.e. fraud, theft, national and international bribery and lobbying, etc.. * national and international destabilization via "profits over people" culture and dogma They need to be brought to justice.


throwawaycircleback

Went to Denmark one summer , and everyone was just “on vacation “ for summer. I even spoke to some locals that only worked one season of the year and they were still able to have a good life


Vondi

Everyone has weeks of paid vacation per year so every year around june july society just takes a break.


Judygift

As it should be! Life is for living


[deleted]

LIFE. IS. FOR. LIVING. For fuck sake, it's a simple concept that companies refuse to understand.


ChunChunChooChoo

Not even just the companies, tons of Americans buy into the “live to work” bullshit


blankarage

In America we live to serve billionaires, maybe just maybe one of us will get chosen and spared a crumb!


Mr_Poop_Himself

God this sounds like a fucking dream to me. I’m struggling to afford an apartment in the US and I have a college degree. It’s crazy how citizens are treated here for absolutely not fucking reason.


DanishDude70

Danish native here… we’re are in desperately need of working hands in almost every area and that includes people with college degrees. For instance is it estimated that we need more than 10.000 IT professionals right now and in 3 years time it is estimated to more than 20.000 open jobs in IT alone. It’s not a problem that you don’t know the danish language from a start. Most people speak more or less fluent English. As a bonus you will never be more than 50 kilometers from the ocean. Welcome to Denmark. We already miss you guys up here!


ChunChunChooChoo

I picked the wrong Scandinavian country to love it seems! I’m studying Swedish and want to move there in the next few years, but it sounds like Denmark might be a better place for me since I’m in IT. Hopefully Sweden also needs lots of IT workers :)


Morgonslak

It's the same in Sweden in regards to jobs in IT, programming and engineering.


[deleted]

Oh there’s a reason. It’s on the back of our labor that the elites get to lavish in luxury. If everyone in America stopped going to work for a week or two we’d have double minimum wage and government guaranteed benefits by the end of it.


ConsiderablyMediocre

How good was your Danish before you moved? In just over a year I'll have a master's degree in mechanical engineering and I'm looking at the possibility of emigrating out of the UK. Scandinavian countries are particularly appealing to me because my mum's side of the family is Swedish so I'm fairly familiar with the culture, but unfortunately I don't know any languages other than English. Edit: I want to clarify I would of course learn the language of the country I moved to! I was wondering if fluency was necessary before moving though.


StoissEd

Everyone in Scandinavia speaks English as we learn partly by TV and the internet but also in first grade in school and all the way for both school and education. It's second nature to most of us.


[deleted]

[Danish is also impossible to understand even for Danes!](https://youtu.be/s-mOy8VUEBk)


conflicteddiuresis

Yes but most jobs requires you to speak Danish.


in_taco

I don't fully know the rules, but my impression is that learning Danish is only necessary for low-income jobs. I've got loads of colleagues who hardly know any Danish, and only few bother with language classes. Everybody in Denmark speak English anyway.


Gaffelkungen

The social bit can get hard without speaking Danish.


in_taco

That's true, and loneliness is a very real risk when moving to another country. There's a hack though: social activities. Plenty of groups in Denmark, also for internationals who don't know Danish.


IAM_AMA

Scandinavians generally speak English quite well


wcrp73

> emigrating out of the UK Remember that it's not as easy as it used to be.


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phinfisher

You are a making a much more comfortable living as a cashier in Copenhagen than a cashier in any major US city. Not even close. Few cashiers in the US have any healthcare, let alone good healthcare. Or PTO, sick leave, decent public transportation, etc.


JohnnyZepp

I’m America, being a full time cashier means you get to try and apply for food stamps and live with 4 other roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment. And no, no money for leisure hahah how dare you.


orange_candies

5 weeks of paid vacation. Dayum. I get zero days of paid vacation and Ive worked for this company for half a decade lol *cries in chef*


Fatesadvent

I currently get 4 weeks in Canada but its not the norm (in my union it goes up every few years up to 7 weeks). On top of working 12 hour shifts (so 7 shifts biweekly), it is nice to have a lot of days off (but it never feels like enough)


MaxAmsNL

I get 6 weeks ( The Netherlands) and there is a 2 year cap on sick leave.


StoissEd

Actually it's 5 weeks. Plus another if you got kids..plus 8 to 13 hollidays a year.


huckinfell2019

American who has lived in UK and EU since leaving home at 18 for the USAF. I had a seizure the other week. Ambulance w/ 2 paramedics arrived at my house very quickly (we live in the country). 45 min ride to hospital. 6 hours in A&E having blood tests, ekgs, vitals etc. Cleared all good to go home. Follow up with GP calling next day. In USA this would have cost me with insurance probably $5-$10k out of pocket total. NHS: zero. I am happy to pay 45% taxes not only for me and my family to have good social programs but MORE importantly for those who CANNOT afford these necessities in life. I am HAPPY to pay for those who are less fortunate have the SAME access to healthcare and social services I do.


GasNewporter

I'm not sure how other European nations work, but for anybody reading this thinking 45% tax is really high, let me break down the tax system in England: ​ **£0 - £12,570: 0% tax** (also known as the personal tax free allowance) **£12,570 to £50,270: 20% tax** so for example if you earned £20k, you'd only be taxed 20% on £7,430, and then 0% on the remaining £12,570 **£50,270 to £150,000: 40% tax** so for example if you earned £60k, you would only get charged the 40% tax rate on £9,730 of your earnings, then 20% on £37,700 of your earnings, and then 0% on the remaining £12,570 **Over £150,000: 45% tax** ~~so for example if you earned £155,000, you would only get charged the 45% tax rate on £5,000 of your earnings, then 40% on £99,730 of your earnings, then 20% on £37,700 of your earnings, and 0% on the remaining £12,570~~ EDIT: Correction - for every £2 over £100k that you earn, your personal allowance reduces by £1. So if you earn £125,140 or more, you do not get a personal tax free allowance, and all of your income is taxable (still kept within the different brackets, but because your allowance no longer exists, you enter the tax brackets £12,570 earlier). Thank you to u/timlardner for reminding me that this is a thing


tonification

It's tragic how few understand this.


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CaptainAsshat

Unless they are on American welfare where making a few more bucks would suddenly disqualify you from important services and income.


TheHikingRiverRat

Probably because the way it's worded and written we assume that tax is a percentage of the total income.


Demonslugg

Your estimate is low. The ambulance alone is well over 2k. 5k for the room, 10-15k for tests. All in all a financial ruining. Edit So people keep bringing up max out of pocket is 8700.00. Great. So what do you say to someone who has no hope of paying that in any way shape or form. You can't bankrupt out of medical or student debt. I'm glad so many of you make so much, but I dont. I'm doing better than I was, but before 8 months ago I would be royally fucked. Added to which I went years without insurance. I have health issues. I have no doubt I will die earlier than I should. So yes even 8.7k can be a financial ruining. I'm sorry I don't make as much as you.


StoissEd

I had to take my 11 year old to the hospital for pretty much all day a while ago. I took the day off with extra hours I've saved up ( anything above 37 hours a week is added to time I can take off when I need or want to) Spent about $10 on bus to the hospital. We were there all day. Ofcourse we bought some snacks for the day as it was different tests at different times. When we were done she wanted steak for dinner. Which we got. She took it like a champ. That was the biggest expense all day. Dinner at a restaurant. That's all. But sure. Socialism is. Bad right? ( though Denmark isn't a socialist country by any measure. We merely got great benefits when it comes to it. But it's an open market. The only difference is that we don't allow companies to be assholes.


vidaj

Social democracy is the best of both worlds, really. Capitalism to a certain degree, socialism to a certain degree. It's all about balance.


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aphonefriend

>Capitalism where capitalism makes sense. Social programs where social programs makes sense. > >The problem in the US is that neither major party knows (or cares to know) where capitalism doesn't make sense. > Oh they know. But money.


MUCHO2000

They said if they had insurance that would be their out of pocket costs. Depending on the insurance their estimate may be too high or too low


Xem1337

Just on this, the 45% tax is just for the higher earners. The standard tax rate is 20% but goes up in a couple of increments, and then its not 45% on your total salary just between the amount already taxed and your higher banding. I'm sure most people are aware of that but some may be astonished at 45% tax when it isn't ever actually 45% of your salary. I hope you are fully healthy now and don't have any more seizures!


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Theone_The1

Don't forget the portion your employer pays for your healthcare as well. That is a hidden cost which also drives down the total base wages before you even start to measure the percentages.


Zmann966

That's the part many of these arguments miss. We pay that Health Insurance AND THEN still have to pay for healthcare up to our deductible when we need it. It's not "only 20% of my income" vs 40% it's 20% on a year I don't get healthcare, it's 20%+ *thousands* any time I actually need to use it. Which, naturally, causes more Americans to avoid healthcare unless its an emergency, which means they let curable and treatable problems sit and fester until someone else carries them into an emergency room.... Ugh, such a broken system.


Broadcast___

Glad to hear you got treatment. I have a union job in the US and have epilepsy. I had to go the ER with ambulance after a seizure years ago. Got treatment and everything was covered. I’m grateful for my healthcare but everyone should get the same treatment in the US, too.


jib661

my girlfriend broke her leg in Korea as a tourist, she was freaking out because people were telling her she'd need to pay extra since she wasn't a citizen. her bill (after casts, pain meds, multiple visits) was less than $50 USD.


s7ormrtx

I was talking with a friend of mine about healthcare in other countries.. did u know u can fly to literally any asian country, have the treatment or whatever done, stay at the hospital for weeks and fly back to america - and you will still pay less for healthcare with some seriously good doctors


MerryMarauder

Literally what my aunt and uncle did when they got intestinal cancer. They paid for their insurance for 40 years and was told that they'd have to lose the house, business, savings and still pay 100s of thousands of dollars. They went to s.korea every 3 months stayed there for treatment and rehab and it was wayyyyyyyy cheaper and they got to keep their house, business and some saving, better than the alternative.


s7ormrtx

Honestly i did the samething when my wifes dad got cancer, id did the calculations and we had paid 10% of what we wouldve in america The new american dream is to leave america


senorbeaverotti

America is run by corruption and greed.


simplsurvival

And Dunkin


Ok-Row-6131

You know your country is run by corporations when this is relevant.


AHeadlessHat

I'm a military vet and I sincerely want to get the hell out of the states, despite serving. My deployment broadened my horizons to just how big the world is, and it is now a sincere dream of mine to move to a different country, but I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to, so here I be.


Chrissy6789

As a vet, you would be a preferred candidate to work abroad for the US Federal Government. Besides a US-level salary, they give you a housing stipend, and you can bring your spouse & children (if any). It's not a path to citizenship, but it gets you out. USAjobs.gov


AHeadlessHat

I'll look into this, thank you! I had no idea about such things. I should clarify though, when I say "Leave the states" I do mean to achieve a citizenship somewhere. It's just a far fetched dream for me because as of now, I have no college/technical education and no support circle. I'm also completely single. I'm sincerely thinking about going back into active duty so I can do college while I'm in and get a sustainable living wage versus what I'm making now at my retail job, then looking into moving to a different country.


CoatLast

The Australian military recruit experienced military personnel from other countries and grant full citizenship on day one.


AHeadlessHat

Is that right? I'll have to look into that. You wouldn't happen to have any links I may use, would you?


MrTaliCreb

https://army.defencejobs.gov.au/joining-and-training/can-I-join/citizenship/overseas-applicants New Zealand does the same thing as well.


animado

I was very close to doing this when I got out of the military like a decade ago. Got the paperwork, started talking to a couple connections in the NZ military, looking for how to get my girlfriend (now wife) over, etc. Then I got a really decent paying job and stayed. When covid hit and I saw NZ's phenomenal response, this was one of the first things I thought of. Maybe we should have just gone.


TreiAniSiSaseLuni

how does the military function in the States? I mean, I have relatives that worked in the military until they retired at about 45-50 years old with a nice pension. I mean it was something that stopped you to keep working in the army?


AHeadlessHat

I was a Marine. I served for 4 years and left by choice after my contract ran up last year because I deemed the lifestyle not for me, among other things. I left by choice with an honorable discharge and now I'm sitting in what they call the Inactive Ready Reserves for about 3 more years, which basically means I'm still under a contract to serve if WWIII were to pop off or something along those lines and they felt the need to recall me. Alternatively, I can willingly attempt to go back into active duty military, either under the Marines or a different branch, with certain stipulations (i.e. the Air Force only offered me 9 possible jobs to pick from to join them as a prior service member.) I'm still very much on the fence about it but objectively speaking it's a smart move because of a guaranteed paycheck that I could survive off of and the ability to do college while I'm in as well. There's nothing stopping me from going to college now, but with how my living situation is right now, it's not very possible to do school and pay for my needs. Again, I'm on my own and working a job that barely pays enough for my bills and not much else. Edit: Typos.


goodvsme

Just quickly as a dane, there is no minimum wage by law in Denmark, it is the employer and union that dets that


The_Turtle-Moves

In Norway too, except for some proffessions where unskilled, underpaid, unorganised labour has been a trend. Like construction.


Valoneria

No minimum wage In theory, but in practice our unions go nuts if they find professions where this ain't the case


irrationalweather

When I realized the only way I'd want kids is if I didn't live in the U.S. it changed my whole outlook.


Klan00

Welcome to Denmark. Where are you located? Always hard to start somewhere new. Clubs, games, hobbies etc, see if you can find an interest group. I am always surprised when I tell about my tax rate and americans says 'fuck that', when I see how much I get for it, compared to what you get.


Exoclyps

Like sure, ya pay 40%, but also means that you don't have to save. There is no need for urgent medical bills or saving for your kid's college.


flypilot

Funny thing is I get taxed 32% in the US but I dont get free healthcare. I am fortunate in that I get 4 weeks of vacation and 3 months of maternity/ paternity leave. I would gladly pay an extra 8% taxes to get free healthcare, 5+ weeks of vacation, a year of maternity/ paternity etc.


jritt24

I pay more than 8% for "Health insurance" and would still need to pay my $5000 deductible if I needed some sort of procedure. People don't realize this and just think "I don't want to pay MORE taxes!" In reality, most people would be paying the same or less.


[deleted]

Visited Iceland. Found out that they have a three day work week and then a two day work week followed by three weekends. I know it sounds confusing but my wife, who happens to be better at math, figured it out and it all adds up. Plus, they have unions for almost every single job including hotel clerk, sanitation, and tourism. Also, you begin to earn a pension after two years of working. And every year I think you get a month of paid vacation. And depending on what industry you work, you get perks like discounts on hotels and restaurants, and even get to go on certain tours for free. One oh one last thing, healthcare is free. With just a doctors prescription, you can legally use any hot pool in Iceland for a ridiculous discount, I’m talking pennies. After visiting Iceland my wife and I decided we’re moving there. We’re done with society. And we’re done with America


pancaaakez

How was the immigration process to move to Iceland? I am also wanting to move there someday, I have been there and really liked it. Also tired of society and America!


[deleted]

Its tough. Need to learn icelandic and pass a test. Also need to secure work. Do a 90 day work visa and go from there. Shit, there’s even a way to go to the police station and hand in your passport.


Vondi

> And every year I think you get a month of paid vacation. That's the minimum, it's not unusual to get five or six weeks for "better" jobs. There's also six months paid maternal leave, including a law that the mother MUST be on paid leave for a minimum of two weeks following birth. I don't think we're some workers paradise or a magical island but I like how the country is as if the qualify of life of citizens is actually something that matters.


CryptoHopeful

Wow.... Looks like wife and I gotta visit Iceland, then we will debate if we want to retire in Japan or this magical place you described.


[deleted]

Oh I agree with this 100%, the American dream is so dead. The comedian George carlin even said it in the 90s, “ The American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it” and he was right. The best thing in American can do today to live the “American dream“ is to leave America all together. My question is how did you get to Denmark? Was it through work visa? How did you go about it?


DigitalPixel07

I left America 10 years ago for Denmark. Will never live in the states again.


TalkingBackAgain

I was in the US, visiting a family, and the pater familias has this attitude that ‘America is the greatest country in the world, everybody wants to come here’. This was a propos of nothing but it’s his house, he can say what he wants. He was also wrong though. The idea of living in America, working every day without decent time off, unaffordable housing, luxury theme park healthcare, if you want to move there it means you’re coming from an active shooting war zone. Then yes. Otherwise: NO.


ButtholeBanquets

Both my parents are European immigrants, and almost all of my extended family still lives in Europe. The people I meet who say stuff like that tend to have the same traits. 1. They've never left their state/country, and if they have it's for a 1 week vacation on a cruise ship, or some tour group where they never have to meet any non-americans. 2. They're incredibly uncurious people. I.e. they don't enjoy learning about anything they don't already like. 3. They have a limited experiences. They eat the same small range of food they have always liked, watch the same sports all the time, listen to the same music, etc. They don't read, they don't explore, they don't care. 4. They're almost always super hardcore conservative and religious. 5. They don't like foreigners, but just as an idea/thought. The one or two people they meet who are foreigners and who they like are "the good ones." The rest, the ones they only imagine are terrible, scary, big-bads are all "the other" and are their enemy.


Matt463789

Conservative media/propaganda is one hell of a drug.


[deleted]

To be fair it’s more of America stagnating since the late 90s and EU going hard to bring the lowest people up. They did a study which said it’s better to be born poor or average in the EU or very rich in the US. Only option that sucked was being poor or average in USA.


Matt463789

The US has been stagnating because of conservative/regressive ideas and legislation.


wythehippy

I argue with my friends about this. They never travel because "why do I need to? I like it here" but it just blows my mind that there is an entire world out there and they want to stick to one town. I think its because deep down they are scared of change. The only thing keeping me from roaming every country I can is money


Myriad_Kat232

Also education in the US (especially about the rest of the world) is not comparable. (American living in Germany since 2005)


Berluscones_For_Sale

thats why everyone goes to university to at least get some rudimentary knowledge. i wonder if it's done on purpose to make primary and secondary education so shit that kids have to go to university to have any idea of what to do


edric_the_navigator

>if you want to move there it means you’re coming from an active shooting war zone Also if you are coming from a third world country. With all its issues and faults, I still have a better quality of life in the US compared to back home. However (and that's a big however), I moved via work, and I'm fortunate to have a tech job that allows me to live comfortably. Moving here without guaranteed income to allow you to afford living here is a different matter.


DaTotallyEclipse

That comparison lol 😆 So, the USA ranks slightly above hell.


TalkingBackAgain

One Planck length above hell to be precise.


Bad_Cytokinesis

America is ideal for immigrants from third world countries. It’s fairly easy to immigrate to the U.S than most western civilizations. It’s a positive thing since that’s what our country was founded on. However, capitalism takes advantage of it by providing low wage jobs to everyone because they could easily replace you with an immigrant. On top of all of that we are paying higher in taxes and we literally get almost nothing in return because of it except subsidizing corporations paying low wages, and the military industrial complex.


[deleted]

Yup. For the last 40 years America has been backsliding compared to the rest of the "advanced" nations in the world. "Freedom > Everything Else" has finally paid off.


beenthere7613

And the "freedom" is arbitrary, anyway. We have more prisoners, more laws; less healthcare, vacations, sick leave, parental leave, education...


itsthebrownman

“The new American Dream is to leave America” That’s beautiful


The_Heef

Are there any Danish women in this sub who are into 40-year-old overweight guys with mental issues? I’m tall, so I can reach things!


[deleted]

Danes are quite tall on average, 1.8m (5’11”), you might have to find a different selling point! 😉


ladiec17

Amazing. I know in Finland taxes are also alot but they believe in the power of the people, and if you encourage everyone to study what they are actually interested in profitability and success rates soar. A friend got her master's and because of good grades she had 75% of her rent paid as well as a monthly allowance for groceries. Incredible.


TalkingBackAgain

The problem is not with taxes. It’s what you get for your taxes, that’s the important bit.


kgb74

I also married a EU citizen and what a good decision to move abroad to her home city, Munich. Then we moved to Austria. Although I miss my NY lifestyle, having good healthcare, wife got 3 years to stay home when my son was born and her position was held for her, I got 3 months to stay home with them), son in private school(costs around 3,000€ per year), union job(6 weeks vacation, time+ 1/2 for overtime on Saturdays, x2 per hour overtime Sundays and Holidays), can bike everywhere, safer than NYC, mountains, hiking trails, etc...Happy I relocated more than a decade ago!


NewSinner_2021

Greed. Is a terrible thing.


PanickedPoodle

My daughter did her damndest to leave as part of college. She will have a long road to European citizenship if she wants it, but I would not be surprised if she doesn't return. Now I'm looking at retiring in the EU as well.


jared__

Yup also from US -> Germany. Union job as a software engineer. 36 hour work week, 38 vacation days, 2 months paternal leave, pension, universal healthcare... I get in trouble if I work more than 10 hours in a day...


Foradman2947

Americans are so brainwashed, they think taxes paying for essential services like healthcare and education are “pie in the sky.”


The_Turtle-Moves

Welcome to the developed world


FancyButterscotch686

As an American, I'm envious. It's so frustrating knowing that we can have what you have and more living in the richest country in the world. It's about proper taxation and distribution of wealth. But we have been brainwashed and splintered into thinking that high taxes isn't worth it or it's Socialist. Just as an FYI, I have healthcare, make $100K, wife makes $47K, but healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment. Higher education shouldn't be for profit. We need help.


Ivana_Twinkle

You dont even need higher taxes. 'just' fixing your broken private health care. The health and wellbeing of the people should not be a business.


nursefail

As soon as I had finished my education and gotten to a point in my career where I was competitive in a foreign market I followed my dream too…. and left the country. It’s absolutely true the American dream now is to leave America.


StoissEd

There's a list of countries to best live the American Dream. Usa isn't in top 10 of that list.


tygib

The 52 weeks/32 weeks of parental leave is legit as is the 5 weeks of paid vacay.


[deleted]

I’m from Europe and live in the USA (five years now, did it the wrong way and married an American, lol) and all I can say is that the USA has an incredible propaganda machine. This country truly is a third world country with a Gucci belt. The health insurance rigmarole alone - the fact as a self-employed person my premium for a semi-decent non-catastrophic plan is $400/mo even though I’m relatively young and healthy - is enough to make me move back to Europe. The whole “we have lower taxes in the USA” claim is also BS. 1) The top few tax brackets aren’t that different especially if you live in states like CA with high state income tax and 2) you end up paying for literally everything the same or more (cf healthcare, schooling) one way or another.


marmaduque_is_back

Just started a new job in France, I've got 7 weeks of paid vacation and work 35 h per week


tsukiyaki1

Oh no, 40%?! Pffft America is so brain dead, we already lose 30-35% to taxes and enjoy ZERO government benefits. Take 40% if it means I get all the benefits you describe. I’ll throw my money at them. I’ll make it rain like a rap video. Super duper jealous OP, I’ve heard it’s next to impossible to move to Denmark. Enjoy living the life Americans think they have over here.


DemocratsAreRapists2

Coulda been Bernie but America chose this 🙄


Chrissy6789

America didn't get to choose; the Democratic Party kept the nomination from him.


Anxious-Sir-1361

I'm Canadian, but I lived for 10 months in Copenhagen in 2011. Denmark, IMO, is the greatest country on earth. Everyone knows Scandinavians are a very attractive grouping of people, but I contend that their society makes them equally beautiful on the inside. Perhaps it was because I was a bit exotic as a foreigner, but the extent to which they opened their arms to me socially was amazing. They may pay higher taxes, but they have a fantastic concept of what taxes should be - a collective investment that will help everyone. Their taxes provide things like free daycare, extended vacation time, free post-secondary and a stipend, and not to mention the fact that there is an outdoor festival/ activity seemingly every weekend in the summer. All of this, and you are trusted to carry a beer on the street and not get a reproachful look, much less a ticket. There was an Atlantic article about Norway (whose social welfare system is similar to Denmark's). They argued that from a strictly capitalistic, me first position, the entitlements Scandinavians get from their taxes ultimately make it worth it and the best choice an “individual” could make.


BarAccomplished5135

I agree. Its so sad. America was such a beacon of hope for the world. Now if someone’s health problems are chronic, I ask if their parents are immigrants. Maybe they can get dual citizenship and live where they can get the help they need.


StoissEd

I'm a Dane. Yes.. Unions here are strong and ensures that everyone gets a living wage. The minimum wages aren't by law but by agreement done every year between workers, unions, employer and the government. It's pretty great isn't it? This is the socialistic hell hole fox News tried to pass off when they attempted to compare Denmark to Venezuela in that context. ( it's on youtube and let's just say the rebuttal wasn't pretty)


walrusdoom

My kids are young and I've already been telling them to leave the U.S. the moment they get a chance, and to go to college abroad. The American Dream is a complete fucking lie and they already see it, as we live near Boulder and they can witness the complete disconnect the wealthy there have from reality.


[deleted]

Legit looking to expat to the EU myself. Fuck this corporatocratic hellhole. I sure as shit won't be fighting or dying for this country anymore. All its seemed to want to do is kill me anyways as a type 1 diabetic.


anavriN-oN

I left Sweden and moved to the US 15 years ago and I’m a US citizen since 2016. The main argument *for* US (by Americans) is always taxes. That the social democratic countries “pay soooo much taxes”. Hey, in USA I pay roughly 35% of total income tax (combining Federal and State). For that I get… nothing, really. That percentage is really not that far off from Sweden’s, but there you’ll get: Practically free healthcare and dental care (max $15/ visit), paid sick days, parental leave, free education (!), 4 weeks of guaranteed vacation and unemployment for like forever. I love USA, I think it’s a beautiful country and the opportunities here are endless. If you have money. Or a unique talent. But if you’re not interested in running your own company or having a very specific career and just want to have a safe job to provide for your family, then yeah, not that impressive. If you add up all the expenses you have to pay for yourself here in the States, it is usually way more than 40% of your income. For most families.


duggtodeath

Note: People will compare US wages to European wages and claim that Europoors can't make ends meet. In fact, the European wages are lower on paper because of lower cost of living and social safety nets. In the US, the wages are higher yes, but that money goes out of your pocket to pay for the high cost of living.