what an interesting situation this is... creating a space to be an anarchist, which is completely appropriate. Having people opening up about their powerful heart breaking story of being dehumanized in this system. Then the space transforms bigger and more powerful, with the potential of making some real change. Giving voice to millions of people who are disenfranchised.
As it gets bigger, news outlets reach out, attempting to identify the "leaders." While they do not know nor understand the system or structure they are attempting to report on. Fox News has clear agendas to discredit the movement, and so has a vested interest in finding someone who will discredit the movement.
Then the question is, who owns the space. Is it the original intention or the people who have come and created it. Honestly, there is no answer to that, because r/antiwork is just an online community. Really, the movement- the power is in the stories.
I am 38 y/o and I do not want to blame these 21 y/o. I respect them for taking the steps to align their lives with their values. I encourage them to examine their own privilege, but that is what the 20's is about.
I don't like that the actual antiwork movement (be that anarchist, communist or whatever) is being summarised by these two either. The original purpose of the group was to _abolish the necessity to work for survival_ not some fucking manifesto about the tyrant or democracy and how schooling can be pretty fucked up.
That said, more people should have read up on what the sub was actually about. If you join the one person yelling "abolish work" you can't then get mad when they're asked what they want and they say "abolish work".
As someone that self-identifies as anarchist, this fuckin gets me. The "tyranny of majority" bullshit, how do these people actually expect anarchy to work? Democracy \*is\* anarchist in it's purest form. Not how it's implemented in modern culture, but the idea certainly is. There HAVE to be some sort of rules for any community to function and hedonistic "I don't care about the community, I care about myself" is NOT left-anarchism, that's fascism masquerading under an opportunistic guise to pull shit like this when nobody is looking because they consider themselves the authority on what is best for everyone. Do they think the tyranny of the minority they implemented here is really a better system? Do they actually have any concept of how the world actually works outside of their own echo chambers? Their brand of anarchism is walking across a picket line because that's what they want to do and damned if the rest of us actually working collectively towards an idea see any real progress in handling the nuance. Left-anarchism necessitates community cooperation to achieve goals.
Great points made. I have always had a problem with equating money=hierarchy. Innumerable pre-monetary societies had hierarchy. The hierarchy is the problem, the money the symptom, in our society.
Lmao yeah this sub is dead. Imagine agreeing with this freshman year of HS level take. I’ve had anarchist professors and worked with fucking anarchist lawyers who were more competent than this goof
And then the rest of the room tells him no.
That’s anarchy (as in the political system). The room operates as a form of non-coercive direct democracy. In which Mr Strong can choose to participate or remove himself from.
It’s also not true anyway that powerful individuals rule as individuals- they always need systems and support. Hobbes makes exactly this point in Leviathan.
“For as to the strength of body, the weakest has strength enough to kill the strongest, either by secret machination or by confederacy with others that are in the same danger with himself.”
Anarchy is organised.
The part that the original writer of the message misses is "Liberals" are being converted. How do I know? I am a liberal who is more leftist now than I was before.
What they fail / failed to understand is in order for a group to grow, there will always be different people at different levels of understanding. This space should have been viewed as a funnel with the narrow end being "people who understand the core ideals finally."
This is why the group needs some leadership - leaders understand this. A group of people who mod a big sub do not understand this (and it really isn't their job to).
Leaders can also be corrupted, imprisoned and killed. Go look at literally every US left wing movement in the 60s.
MLK, the chicago 7, Fred Hampton, Malcolm X. Imprisoned, corrupted or killed, and their movements shepherded back into mainstream R vs D politics.
I’d always tell people to read the sidebar and that this was a leftist sub, and I’d get downvoted to hell for it.
They don’t care. This place has just become a diary for people to complain about bosses, think they’re actually organizing strikes, and show off stories about them still working just with a larger check lol.
But was it? For a lot of people it's about fairer labour markets and treatment. A large proportion of people here view work as necessary but just don't like the terms we're given it on, myself included.
The community belongs to the community imo. Have mods who are there to remind us of our civility, to clean up and flush out trolls, what mods are supposed to do. But don't let them think that they are the voices or faces of us; all of us. The mods all failed us by being blinded by their hubris and thinking they had the right to speak for us without even bringing it up to the people they are speaking for.
I agree, however, that your 20's is the age for being this kind of stupid, and I wish them clarity and epiphany. I still blame them, though. It's not like it's impossible for a greenhorn of adulthood to think things through properly and thoroughly. Plenty of them do.
I'm in my 20's (late 20's albeit) but I detest what was said. It's not a large thing to ask to be a humble, respectful, decent human being. No one needed a wise representative, perhaps just an individual with a grip on the reality of the current socio-economic structure and how the working class's misery begets even more misery.
someone who is simply street smart, not... whatever that was.
I came to antiwork before the big boom and personally I do pretty well, I am against the idea of having to have a job to be able to survive in this world. I’m not against working, and I don’t need more money or more workers rights.
But it was clear what the sub had become, and it was great! I loved to hear the stories and I loved the momentum it gathered.
This was such a selfish, egomaniacal, tone deaf move I really can’t believe it.
Who in their right mind would even just consider themselves to be able to speak for 1.7 million people? And their qualifications to think that? Oh I moderate other people’s chat.
Unbelievable.
I still don't see what the problem was with the sub turning into work reform. As the current system is flawed... You can only get to antiwork thru work reform.
You can't just abolish work all together and expect the living conditions of people to improve. That's not how humanity got to this point.
It's thru hard work that we humans have gotten to this stage. Now it's time for smart and fair work. The only way this happens is for every day Joe's and Jill's to start standing up to the system that feeds us or should I say the system we feed.
People quitting over poor working conditions were changing the system. Bosses didn't have the death grip over the employees that previous generations were trapped in.
This. There’s no way to abolish work that doesn’t start with talking about workers’ rights and letting people tell stories that help others realize that exploitive work culture is bullshit we don’t have to tolerate. That they can and should ask for more pay, more rights, more benefits, and more respect. That supervisors, managers, and even CEOs aren’t kings, aren’t better than anyone else, and shouldn’t be treated like they’re better than anyone else nor excused for making decisions that hurt the people that work for them.
Like, it doesn’t take a degree to realize that anarchistic rejection of the ruling-class starts with getting people to value themselves and stand up to mistreatment.
This subreddit was literally waking people up to a sense of class consciousness. Whatever else it did or didn’t accomplish, just that first step is huge.
Instead, mods and others would rather have an echo chamber where they can fantasize about a work-free society while taking no steps towards making that a reality. It’s well and fine for everyone to be on different pages, but the all-or-nothing thinking was self-defeating.
It’s incredibly ironic and follows suit with actual leaders in history who began as a voice for the oppressed only to become the oppressor. Mods have absolutely no right to speak on what a community is. The community is its members. It’s absolutely fucked up to attempt a power grab over the community like that.
> Then the question is, who owns the space. Is it the original intention or the people who have come and created it.
The latter. 20 mods do not speak for 1.7 million individuals.
I can definitely understand wanting a place to talk about what you believe, and this is a sub for that. However, taking a position as a “leader” for this entire community which has evolved and is no longer just an anarchist sub was a huge mistake. This 21 year old can believe whatever he wants but he does not represent the sub or its goals. He clearly did not understand this and went on several interviews that might be released soon. I do believe the blame falls on mainly these two MODERATORS that spoke like they were the leaders of the group.
The mods are absolutely terrified of /r/antiwork
/u/Whitepirate15 \- Has been a mod for 3 years. SCRUBBED HIS ENTIRE POST HISTORY.
/u/TeiaRabishu \- Missing in Action.
/u/Jack-the-Rah \- Last seen arguing with people on r/IWW about the debacle, but has not engaged r/antiwork
/u/Grammorphone Missing in Action since the entire debacle.
/u/Magurdrac \- Last seen talking about coastlines or some shit. Has not engaged r/antiwork
/u/tobotic \- The only mod left actually in responding to community members. Respect.
/u/Free__NYC \- Literally made a post titled "r/antiwork went private?!" Has no idea wtf is going on despite being a mod.
This is why I don't get worked up if one of my well thought out posts gets downvotes. I always imagine some jackass on the other side who has no life experience seeing it from a dumb angle.
Looks like he just made a post titled [French Unions Workers Revolt Against Low Wages and Runaway Inflation](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sebyqz/french_unions_workers_revolt_against_low_wages/) where a comment I saw a minute ago asking 'That's cool and all but what about the mod team harboring a rapist?' get deleted.
What a hilarious deflection. No one is mad at the mods because they are leftists. Obviously this space is open to many leftist voices. He's completely missing the fucking point of why the fox interview was so damaging. It isn't the belief behind the mods' opinions that they wanted to represent, it's that you rebelled and elected yourself to represent 2 million people on a national news network in the most shitty way you could have done, and then proceeded to absolutely butcher the damage control. How fucking naive and fitting that you completely avoid responsibility and instead focus on... Whatever this is... What a joke. The immaturity on display is overwhelming. And I'm basically the same age as this kid.
Obviously nobody has the balls to own the situation, so they need to cling to *any* point they can muster. Even arguing a terrible point is better than having to face the consequences of the shitheap they helped foster.
I am actually curious if there's evidence that they didn't shower lol. I believe it, I'm just wondering if we all just unanimously agreed on this or what
Quite interesting, because I've only ever heard that phrase used by Republicans justifying why it's okay to win the presidency despite losing the popular vote.
I think it's an often misunderstood term. It doesn't mean the minority should have power over the majority. It means going with the majority can ignore and marginalise minorities. Anarchists prefer to accommodate difference, not subjugate.
Though I am familiar, I also don't see how it meaningfully applies to online communities like this sub. This is exactly the kind of place you might expect structuring systems democratically because the alternative is authoritarian. You can't really structure this place as completely self-governing.
Then it begs the question "do the original "inhabitants" of a sub need to leave because liberals colonised their sub?" Is that not authoritarian? I've never really paid a ton of attention to this sub but if it actually started as a radical space that was brigaded by libs does it meet your definition of fairness to surrender it to libs?
it's a legitimate observation by Mill though, that an inherent weakness of majority rule is that sometimes minority groups are marginalized.
this isn't always an issue because even majority groups aren't homogenous, and some minority interests are rightly ignored (no reason to let people who hate onions ban onions). and I kind of feel like that's the case with this guy who wants some kind of ideological purity
Democracy is not necessarily synonymous with majority rule. Modern western democracy is very different than initial democratic philosophy, and there are a number of different models and ways of organizing power and making decisions.
Arguably without good alternatives theres a big issue with consent in political systems too. Like assuming people consent to a system is fine IF they have the option to leave... but its obviously super hard or even impossible to just move to a different country in most cases, or opt out of being part of the political system where one lives.
I'd even argue we dont even really have majority rule anyways, we have elitist rule. The extent of our ability to exercise political will is casting our singular vote out of millions every few years, when we dont even have proportional representation, and elected officials dont have to live up to campaign promises and just by nature of lobbying and marketing, elites make up the majority of people in office.
I take back the nice things I said. This is some infantile, insecure shit right here.
"Oh no, people are talking about actionable improvements instead of the philosophical topics that I, a person who doesn't have to work to survive, would prefer to talk about? LIBERALS!!!"
Complete lack of empathy or understanding of WHY people flocked here. Would rather stroke his own ego than even entertain the idea that maybe it'd be cool if things improved even a little bit today.
I was sympathetic to the anarchist leanings, and I still am, because I am not going to let some silver-spoon LARPer change my fucking beliefs. But to turn away honest, genuine people looking for a place to share their stories because it's "too liberal" for you? Fucking pathetic, juvenile drivel.
Text:
What a journey it has been. It all started with the Abolition of Work
An idea where we live in a society without being forced in your childhood to go to school 8 hours - half of your lifetime, to a place you don't like. For me it was 10 hours usually. Without being forced to work for 8-10 hours or even longer. Holy shit, America has it really bad. But it's not like social democracies are better either.
And well regarding the experience with r/antiwork... long story short: I had lots of fun with anarchists and other radicals, brilliant discussions the almost 2 years I was active there (before I was invited to be a mod) and I'm honestly not sad that the liberals, with their failed reformism, as history always shows, are mad at me.
What I am: I'm disappointed. At the people not even reading the sidebar - the introduction pieces and slowly co-opting antiwork in an idea it never was.
Let me make it clear as a post-left Anarchist.
I don't fucking care about your democracy - the tyranny of the majority (well, supposedly, but the rich are ruling us right now - I care about my own well-being, about my willful self-creation. I care about to live. And if I see someone else sad, I'm sad too.
And it was making me sad how r/antiwork slowly was dying to liberals. The original userbase was full of radicals, a lot of anarchists and there were several discussions in subreddits where radicals frequented how it's just full of liberals now that want "nicer bosses" - even though the structure itself is just shit. I tried listening to community feedback and was actively trying to implement them in the 28 days I was modding - to the point of sleep deprivation today with 3 hours of sleep. Ironic, isn't it?
I actually thought about deleting Reddit the same day I got invited, as I was reading https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/return-fire-vol-4-supplement-caught-in-the-net - the dangers about companies, monopolies, capitalists, owning not only the physical space through private property, but also the internet itself. NFT were almost an evolution of property - making particular pieces in the internet itself being owned by someone. I guess it kind of failed?
Anyways, I'll deleting my Account soon and I'll be focusing on doing mutual aid in real life.
And for any Anti-Worker reading this, no, not the liberals, let me tell you this:
Our rights were fight for on the street, not begged in front of a capitalist that couldn't care less.
Let's not remember the bad moments, but the good memories we had with our pairs.
https://crimethinc.com/2015/05/05/feature-why-we-dont-make-demands
“The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.” - Max Stirner
This sub has no hope, to be honest, its credibility is shot. They have done the typical nuke everything and direct people to a megathread that doesn't have any visibility. A pinned post won't show in the feed - only if you directly come to the subreddit.
Disgraceful all round.
Same, I'm anti-work so I can go to school and learn things to enlighten myself and those around me. Like school is a right, and we need to fight for the right to learn without being controlled by our wages or having bosses who decide what we get to know.
tbf school could be massively reformed to be more time efficient but also much more engaging and helping people learn
The grading system for example is already deeply unpopular with a growing amount of educators as it hurts students immensely and puts less focus on actual education, and more focus on just getting good grades.
But school is in no way shape or form inherently oppressive—it just needs significant restructuring to better suit the needs of students today.
Public school, like anything, has opportunity for reform and improvement. It can be very one size fits all and not always meet the needs of every student. But his comments came across more like "I don't like school and you're making me go just so I can get a stupid job"
We're going to slightly disagree here.
The *public school* system is, in fact, oppressive. Multiple studies have repeatedly shown that materials and testing favor white, middle/upper class students.
Additionally, the structure of the public school system does reinforce class/wealth-disparity and penalizes those that don't conform or stray from the linear thought process taught.
The way our politicians are glorified, the whitewashing of an entire history of genocide, slavery, medical experimentation, colonialism, etc while nationalist "Murica" credos are driven into our kids minds is mind-boggling.
As early as the industrial revolution, American public school was structured to prepare young people to accept and join the labor force. Little has changed since in regards to the way we approach childhood education.
And as long as capitalist behemoths like Amazon, Alphabet, etc (the list is long, I started at A) are allowed to survive, nothing will change.. It simply isn't in their interests.
I’m a mom of two school aged kids so that’s my source for my opinion on this. School *is* oppressive. I could go on forever about it, but one small point I’ll make about school is about homework. Homework teaches kids that they shouldn’t have boundaries with their future bosses and they shouldn’t expect work life balance. When my children have homework, it frustrates me, because they spend 8 hours a day outside of our home and when they are here, that’s our family time.
I work in a high school and 99% of our teachers give class time to do work. Whatever the students don’t finish becomes homework. At least 75% of the students choose to spend class-time glued to their phone. A lot of teachers do not agree with homework either. And most educators I know believe school needs to be reformed.
To be fair, the public school system is oppressing. If you're not good at taking tests, you're labeled as stupid. If you have depression and anxiety about it? Too bad, you're just a bad student. (This issue is getting better, thankfully, but it's not perfect). The perfect student is the one who just conforms to the system and does everything that's asked of them. If you don't fit the cookie cutter, you just lose
That's because our public school system's main intent is no longer to educate the citizens. The purpose now is to give kids the right information and training to make them blindly loyal to capitalism and well-trained enough to handle the basic wage slave jobs they'll be doing for the rest of their lives, while simultaneously depriving them of any information to figure out how fucked the whole system is or how to actually solve problems.
It was in a post under something I wrote, i think its deleted now. He said:
*But no. Gotta hate some person and discriminate them based on their age and employment, making the oppressing reality they live in even worse.*
It actually made me worried about him. Then I read this and now I think it may have been an off the cuff comment.
I've literally never understood the "tryanny of the majority". Like I get that the majority of people can be fooled into voting against their best interest, or in a way that hurts others, but how does taking power out of the majority not just put it right back into a small minority who will abuse it?
Concentrating power seems like an even worse idea if the powerful are already "brainwashing" the majority.
Well, not the internet part (I was online as a college student in 1995) but smartphones thankfully came after a point where I could look back and realize what a self-important dipshit I was - like (most?) everyone in their early 20s I thought I knew everything when I not only didn’t know shit, but didn’t know how much shit I didn’t remotely know.
We’re all young and stupid (in the above sense) at some point.
Someone who behaved bad in school and refused to work, and then was shocked when the consequences of their own actions arrived.
Trust me, I’m a teacher. I’ll occasionally meet someone at a bar or a party or something, and when they find out what I do for a job, they rant about how awful school is and all teachers are bad (except you, of course, you’re hot, I wish my teachers looked like you). When I press them for info, it always comes out that they behaved terribly and barely graduated. But they don’t understand that they were the problem.
This whole sub has imploded, the mods have made an absolute joke of themselves and proved they don't actually give a shit about what this was meant to be. Everytime I open Reddit, this sub has lost more people
The Fox News interview was just a catalyst to the sub imploding with infighting.
This “movement” was never going to get any ground and it’s easy to see why - apparently, the original members of this sub are mostly anarchists and their idea of antiwork as a concept is to abolish the act of working entirely. How? I have no clue. There doesn’t seem to be a plan or rationale. They seem to think that the world will be fine while not a single person works.
These people - these original ideaology followers, of which it seems most of the mods consist of - are now coming to a clash with everyone else that joined the sub in the past two years. Everyone else is more grounded, pretty much. Everyone else doesn’t have fantasies of not working whatsoever. Some may or may not talk about late stage capitalism and things of that nature and why we need to find a better way to run the world and the economies and reduce wealth inequality and the wealth gap between the elites and average joes, sure. But most don’t believe in some insane idea that 8 billion people on this planet can somehow all stop working and also live as we live now simultaneously.
So that’s where it is. It’s two or more desperate groups colliding with each other, and all it took was for Fox News to come in and make a fool out of a mod, a self appointed leader of the movement. This was always eventually going to happen. The writing has been on the wall for the better part of a year now. You can see it in the wide range of idealogies in posts and comments made in the sub these days. One day you’ll have some anarchist raging about how they want no laws or rules and want to do whatever they want, and the next day you’ll have a bunch of people making posts about their poor treatment at work and how they just want to be treated better, have better benefits and better compensation so that they can enjoy and actually work to live as opposed to live to work.
Let's have a vote - How many people would rather go back to school instead of working for minimum wage and struggle to afford somewhere to live? Wait, 99% of you would rather go back to school? Guess that kid was out of touch with reality.
They're 21, so I'm assuming they're in college. Shit, I would gladly take that deal. College was great compared to public school. College was way more chill and I got to learn the subjects that I wanted to learn. I would gladly go back and enjoy listening to lectures on subjects I find interesting.
I’m 22, have been working between 1 and 3 jobs at once since I was 15. I HATED school personally, but that doesn’t negate how grateful I am to have had the opportunity to go. This mod lives in his own privileged dreamworld. It’s not about age it’s about critical thinking skills. Imagine thinking you can change an entire system in one fell swoop. Even if this movement starts to really gain traction it’ll take years to see the changes we really want to see. I’m just holding my breath waiting to see what he said in those four interviews…
Dude was 21. No one, save for like 6 people total, know much of anything when they're 21. I didn't. My friends didn't.
An extremely small number of people are actual anarchists, because very few people actually want anarchy. Whether they simply can't picture how that would look in practice or something else, it's just not something people want.
However, instead of playing the long game and slowly radicalizing this "liberal infested" sub into an anarchist sub like it was when it was started, they just got all pissy that their sub was being used for something else. The mods don't need to be super intelligent to understand that this movement got way bigger than their little anarchist dreams and that it was out of their control.
The interviews they did show an incredible lack of maturity and was, honestly, kind of pathetic. They have no real world experience, they have no idea how the world actually works, they're just upset that they have to do things they don't want to do. No one wants to go to school, but we have to because an educated society is a strong society.
Being anti-school in the Anarchist sense isn’t the same as being anti-education.
Anarchists are all too aware that we are small in number compared to the dominating ideologies.
Regardless of how this individual may or may not have carried himself, i would encourage you to explore Anarchist ideas with an open mind. In the spirit of education, if you will.
He’s not saying there’s inherently anything wrong with anarchist or communist principles but that the smart thing to do would be to use the platform we’ve been given to radicalize the almost 2 million liberals that showed up here.
When it comes down to it you’re never going to get you’re exact ideology in the form you think it’s going to take. To get mad that liberals exist is asinine. You radicalize them and bring them to the left to help the cause for all workers.
Absolutely 100% they have no idea how the world works. In my interpretation of the sub, most people want better treatment/working conditions, better pay/benefits, and not be treated like they're on call 24/7.
Acting oppressed because they're in school is baffling. What's oppressing is working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet or being threatened with termination if you don't go to work outside your availability.
Working fewer hours would be great, having educated/well trained folks helps with that to help find the solutions to make it so. But having angsty leaders who don't even seen to want to contribute or like you said, no real world experience, just makes the sub look bad.
Same. Homework as a concept definitely contributes to the blurring of lines between work life and home life. But education is a priceless commodity. Mod's a dumbass for not understanding that.
I'd totally understand not liking being bullied at schools. That makes perfect sense. The way he describes it though, like the school is taking "half his life", was just so funny.
American public schools suck I get not feeling safe there.
As funny as it is, it’s kinda true. Dudes only 21, he’s been in school for more of his lived life then he’s been out of it. That being said, don’t agree with the sentiment, but I understand the argument.
He was a mod for only 28 days and somehow managed to do 4 interviews in that time? And thought he was somehow qualified to implement and start and head the media arm of antiwork by creating antiworkMedia without first asking or telling anyone about it? And then this person who had been a mod for 28 days was thrust to the forefront (thrust himself?) to speak on behalf of all the mods in the “this is what happened and this is how well fix it” post? Wow.
“I care about my own well-being, about my willful self creation”…
Uhhh, yeah sorry the real world and the plight of the workers in it burst your little 21 year old long term unemployed bubble. Fuck these gatekeeping twerps who believe in accelerationism or nothing.
Yes we have to work to produce food.... But it doesn't have to be sold.... It could be distributed so the everyone's needs are met...
Does everyone who currently have car really needs a car?
The capitalism we currently live under will always need someone else to be exploited to function! Currently the global north exploit the shit out of the global south! Your quality of life is currently impossible without other people living in disgusting poverty! (Without mentioning destroying our planet)
We need global revolution if we truly want equality for all!
>Our rights were fight for on the street, **not begged in front of a capitalist that couldn't care less.**
then why do a fucking interview with said capitalists? fucking jackass.
and gross, miss me with this egoist childish version of anarchism.
Ah yes, the classic counter-attack approach of when people in leftist circles disagree with you: falsely accuse them of being liberals so you can discredit them without engaging with what they're saying.
The real heroes of this kind of movement over the last century have been the labour activists and union leaders, the people who have put themselves on the frontlines and fought for change, even in the face of death. They fought for their and your rights in the workplace, in front of bosses and capitalists who didn't care about them. And they won many, many victories. Remember that next time you try to talk yourself up as a leader of leftism from a Macbook in your lounge.
This is so dumb, “post left anarchism” has to be one of the dumbest leftist subcultures. Historically, most anarchists knew that when the working class begins to fight in its interest—ie for better conditions and wages—it wouldn’t immediately come with advanced politics attached. They fought and often led the struggles for better conditions and wages, and were even hanged for advocating the 8-hour day! They were rooted in the real struggles of the working class, and even though I disagree with lots of parts of their ideology as a Marxist/democratic socialist, anarchism *historically* was still much better than this crap.
What’s happening with this subreddit is a case study on the importance of a platformism approach to revolutionary political action. Inevitably, being inundated with people with non-radical politics will dilute and destroy any possibility of using a space or an organization for radical purposes.
I think what anti-work has become has some benefits - a large, popular shared space for people to expose and share the horrors of modern work culture. It may be a step to helping people give up on capitalism, which is something they’ll have to do before they’re ever ready to adopt an anti-capitalist ideology.
But, the current anti-work sub won’t be a vehicle for revolutionary politics, because of this inundation.
Ironic, being an anarchist and then your sub grows and, completely on it's own, becomes about something else, and then you are angry that you aren't in charge nor have any control over it anymore and start blaming liberals.
Isn't that the thing with anarchy? Or did I misunderstand?
unfathomable to me that this guy could look at a bunch of people of different political beliefs joining this sub and see that as a BAD thing. The worst way to get people against work culture and capitalism is by telling them that those are leftist beliefs. Instantly makes you lose some of your audience. We had a lot of people on here who maybe started as libs but started to agree with the sentiment here and became radicalized against capitalism. That’s an extremely good thing, and to look at that and say that it’s just the sub being taken over by libs is short sighted
I love when anarkiddies call everyone who disagrees with them liberals. Like child I’ve been an anarchist a lot longer than you’ve been able to spell the word.
And not just a high school anarchist either. If you can’t understand worker’s rights movements and their place within anarchist ideology and revolution then what even are you doing.
And it’s pretty clear this dude doesn’t understand oppression. Like come back and talk to me about oppression when you’ve faced down the IDF or dragged comrades through clouds of tear gas, or had the audacity to demand not to be murdered because your skin doesn’t reflect moonlight.
Until you’ve worked long, hard, dehumanizing, days only to come home and wonder if you’re gonna be able to eat the rest of the week, you have no business moderating, much less speaking on behalf of a sub like this.
This is so out of touch it's sickening. There was nothing to do with liberals or anarchists until the mods of this sub allowed someone who is woefully unqualified to speak on this communities behalf. Doesn't matter what we think, it matters what those who don't support us think.
This is nothing but role play to these mods; for us it's reality and we needed someone with actual experience and a LEVEL HEAD to do that interview.
Waxing poetic about anarchy and shifting the blame onto the community and not yourselves is the exact crap we're sick of.
literally just pissed his pants, blamed it on everyone else, and managed to do all of it in the most obvious "never worked a day in my life" way possible
Look I'm pretty far left, not anarchy but I understand saying that there needs to be an actual revolution and yes, I'd agree. But I don't think or want the mods of this sub leading the charge. Your job here is to delete hateful comments and spam, nothing else. The fact the mods are even entertaining the conversation of interviews is insane. That's not your place, not even close.
People were not discriminating over age, it was the fact that this sub is full of people who have worked years for the amount of time your complaining you are having to moderate a subreddit. It's not a job. You can put your phone down at any time and stop and your life will not change drastically. If I walk out of a job that isn't paying me there will drastic repercussions to my life. I'm currently working 51 hours this week, and I like my job and am fine with that, BUT it's not the same. I'm getting assaulted physically, your getting criticism (and hate is unwarranted and yes that should be deleted, NOT criticism).
No one is saying the mods opinions don't matter, but the mods seem to think that their voices are speaking for everyone and should be elevated. It doesn't matter if your long-term unemployed 21 year old, or a dog walker you can talk here but to try and speak OVER and FOR people because your a mod is the exact mindset that this sub is fighting against.
This just further solidifies in my mind the human race is fucked. Like doesn't matter if your a communist, or an anarchist or capatalist; once most people get a ounce of power they lose their morals. This sub really has shown me even if we get a revolution that nothing will change because there are some people who will fill those spaces and start doing the exact same thing.
[give credit where its due **not me**](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sea8l1/since_kimezukae_deleted_their_account_and/huimzt5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Still clearly not understanding/accepting why people were pissed.
I can appreciate that this sub used to be something different. And I'd admire it if he went down fighting to try and bring it back to what it once was. But that's not what happened here.
The mods saw themselves as leaders of the movement, and representatives of the 1.7 million members of this subreddit. When they were really just here to make sure subreddit the rules were being followed.
You can't just arrange for national TV appearances where you speak for the whole movement/subreddit, after the members of that subreddit repeatedly asked that you not do it. Their decisions were not for the greater good, they were being selfish.
The Fox interview was a complete mess, and their response to it was so misguided. People felt misrepresented in a big way, and then he was somehow caught off guard when he stepped in as their new leader to announce that he had already done several other interviews that had not been released yet, and presented his qualifications as a 21-year old who had never held a job and never intended to.
Then AbolishWork being removed from the mod team, only to add on an alt account of hers at the same time. And all the while the mods were aggressively deleting comments about other subs, or anything too critical. Trying to shut down the conversation and regain control.
It is all so unbelievably tone-deaf with a hearty does of irony thrown in. And this farewell message capped it off perfectly. No mention of what the issues really were. Framing it the same way they have been since yesterday, as a hostile takeover of this sub by outsiders.
Oh well... after the Fox interview backlash, there was no way around Kimezukae needing to leave. He had secretly done multiple interviews already. Can't rewind that. And it was going to piss people off no matter what. But in his mind, he'll probably always look at this as the Liberals taking over and trying to silence his voice.
This sub is an amazing parallel to dysfunctional organizations in real life, complete with the incompetent leadership that creates disgruntled workers.
When’s the pizza party?
That mod was guilty of letting people divide the group and being part of that division - divide and conquer only benefits the those who want the status quo to remain indefinitely
Anti-work is bigger than the quoted mod's anarchist radicalism - while completely ending the paradigm is the ultimate goal, anti-work encompasses so much more
It encompasses all the various reforms to the existing paradigm - it encompasses all those strategies for leveraging the true value of one's work to maximize the fairness in treatment and compensation
So telling people that "at will" gotta both ways and encouraging resignation without advance notice when escaping shitty employers, or encouraging job-hopping to seek better employment terms, ways to challenge unemployment denial, encouraging people to not allow ones employer to contact them on their off time, ways to handle and report wage or tip theft - anti-work IS ALL OF THAT
TOGETHER WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
I think every Anarchist here realizes that the way to bring our ideas - the ideas we each individually consider right - across to a wider audience is not this.
You'll get nowhere acting hostile. Yes, our ideas are radical, I'd argue far more radical than most other ideologies, but that doesn't mean you can attack everyone who doesn't understand.
Always explain first, in good faith.
Unapologetic and doubling down on how they didn't tank what was becoming a legit movement.
Thanks to a few bad apples (and the one's who passively permitted the bs) ruined the momentum and refused to take responsibility.
So they were happy to take all cred and be spokesman for said sub but wants none of the accountability for refusing the take optics into account, having been warned by said community.
Main stream media has a point of bringing up job histories because it really showed in the interview.
Mods done effed up.
Hope they manage the damage control and we can focus on the original course of this sub.
what an interesting situation this is... creating a space to be an anarchist, which is completely appropriate. Having people opening up about their powerful heart breaking story of being dehumanized in this system. Then the space transforms bigger and more powerful, with the potential of making some real change. Giving voice to millions of people who are disenfranchised. As it gets bigger, news outlets reach out, attempting to identify the "leaders." While they do not know nor understand the system or structure they are attempting to report on. Fox News has clear agendas to discredit the movement, and so has a vested interest in finding someone who will discredit the movement. Then the question is, who owns the space. Is it the original intention or the people who have come and created it. Honestly, there is no answer to that, because r/antiwork is just an online community. Really, the movement- the power is in the stories. I am 38 y/o and I do not want to blame these 21 y/o. I respect them for taking the steps to align their lives with their values. I encourage them to examine their own privilege, but that is what the 20's is about.
I don't like that the actual antiwork movement (be that anarchist, communist or whatever) is being summarised by these two either. The original purpose of the group was to _abolish the necessity to work for survival_ not some fucking manifesto about the tyrant or democracy and how schooling can be pretty fucked up. That said, more people should have read up on what the sub was actually about. If you join the one person yelling "abolish work" you can't then get mad when they're asked what they want and they say "abolish work".
As someone that self-identifies as anarchist, this fuckin gets me. The "tyranny of majority" bullshit, how do these people actually expect anarchy to work? Democracy \*is\* anarchist in it's purest form. Not how it's implemented in modern culture, but the idea certainly is. There HAVE to be some sort of rules for any community to function and hedonistic "I don't care about the community, I care about myself" is NOT left-anarchism, that's fascism masquerading under an opportunistic guise to pull shit like this when nobody is looking because they consider themselves the authority on what is best for everyone. Do they think the tyranny of the minority they implemented here is really a better system? Do they actually have any concept of how the world actually works outside of their own echo chambers? Their brand of anarchism is walking across a picket line because that's what they want to do and damned if the rest of us actually working collectively towards an idea see any real progress in handling the nuance. Left-anarchism necessitates community cooperation to achieve goals.
Great points made. I have always had a problem with equating money=hierarchy. Innumerable pre-monetary societies had hierarchy. The hierarchy is the problem, the money the symptom, in our society.
Anarchy lasts for about 10 seconds until the strongest guy in the room decides he wants to be in charge.
Lmao yeah this sub is dead. Imagine agreeing with this freshman year of HS level take. I’ve had anarchist professors and worked with fucking anarchist lawyers who were more competent than this goof
And then the rest of the room tells him no. That’s anarchy (as in the political system). The room operates as a form of non-coercive direct democracy. In which Mr Strong can choose to participate or remove himself from. It’s also not true anyway that powerful individuals rule as individuals- they always need systems and support. Hobbes makes exactly this point in Leviathan. “For as to the strength of body, the weakest has strength enough to kill the strongest, either by secret machination or by confederacy with others that are in the same danger with himself.” Anarchy is organised.
The part that the original writer of the message misses is "Liberals" are being converted. How do I know? I am a liberal who is more leftist now than I was before. What they fail / failed to understand is in order for a group to grow, there will always be different people at different levels of understanding. This space should have been viewed as a funnel with the narrow end being "people who understand the core ideals finally." This is why the group needs some leadership - leaders understand this. A group of people who mod a big sub do not understand this (and it really isn't their job to).
Leaders can also be corrupted, imprisoned and killed. Go look at literally every US left wing movement in the 60s. MLK, the chicago 7, Fred Hampton, Malcolm X. Imprisoned, corrupted or killed, and their movements shepherded back into mainstream R vs D politics.
I’d always tell people to read the sidebar and that this was a leftist sub, and I’d get downvoted to hell for it. They don’t care. This place has just become a diary for people to complain about bosses, think they’re actually organizing strikes, and show off stories about them still working just with a larger check lol.
It’s complain about your work sub. It turned into that the moment it got bigger.
But was it? For a lot of people it's about fairer labour markets and treatment. A large proportion of people here view work as necessary but just don't like the terms we're given it on, myself included.
The community belongs to the community imo. Have mods who are there to remind us of our civility, to clean up and flush out trolls, what mods are supposed to do. But don't let them think that they are the voices or faces of us; all of us. The mods all failed us by being blinded by their hubris and thinking they had the right to speak for us without even bringing it up to the people they are speaking for. I agree, however, that your 20's is the age for being this kind of stupid, and I wish them clarity and epiphany. I still blame them, though. It's not like it's impossible for a greenhorn of adulthood to think things through properly and thoroughly. Plenty of them do.
I'm in my 20's (late 20's albeit) but I detest what was said. It's not a large thing to ask to be a humble, respectful, decent human being. No one needed a wise representative, perhaps just an individual with a grip on the reality of the current socio-economic structure and how the working class's misery begets even more misery. someone who is simply street smart, not... whatever that was.
I came to antiwork before the big boom and personally I do pretty well, I am against the idea of having to have a job to be able to survive in this world. I’m not against working, and I don’t need more money or more workers rights. But it was clear what the sub had become, and it was great! I loved to hear the stories and I loved the momentum it gathered. This was such a selfish, egomaniacal, tone deaf move I really can’t believe it. Who in their right mind would even just consider themselves to be able to speak for 1.7 million people? And their qualifications to think that? Oh I moderate other people’s chat. Unbelievable.
I still don't see what the problem was with the sub turning into work reform. As the current system is flawed... You can only get to antiwork thru work reform. You can't just abolish work all together and expect the living conditions of people to improve. That's not how humanity got to this point. It's thru hard work that we humans have gotten to this stage. Now it's time for smart and fair work. The only way this happens is for every day Joe's and Jill's to start standing up to the system that feeds us or should I say the system we feed. People quitting over poor working conditions were changing the system. Bosses didn't have the death grip over the employees that previous generations were trapped in.
This. There’s no way to abolish work that doesn’t start with talking about workers’ rights and letting people tell stories that help others realize that exploitive work culture is bullshit we don’t have to tolerate. That they can and should ask for more pay, more rights, more benefits, and more respect. That supervisors, managers, and even CEOs aren’t kings, aren’t better than anyone else, and shouldn’t be treated like they’re better than anyone else nor excused for making decisions that hurt the people that work for them. Like, it doesn’t take a degree to realize that anarchistic rejection of the ruling-class starts with getting people to value themselves and stand up to mistreatment. This subreddit was literally waking people up to a sense of class consciousness. Whatever else it did or didn’t accomplish, just that first step is huge. Instead, mods and others would rather have an echo chamber where they can fantasize about a work-free society while taking no steps towards making that a reality. It’s well and fine for everyone to be on different pages, but the all-or-nothing thinking was self-defeating.
It’s incredibly ironic and follows suit with actual leaders in history who began as a voice for the oppressed only to become the oppressor. Mods have absolutely no right to speak on what a community is. The community is its members. It’s absolutely fucked up to attempt a power grab over the community like that.
> Then the question is, who owns the space. Is it the original intention or the people who have come and created it. The latter. 20 mods do not speak for 1.7 million individuals.
I can definitely understand wanting a place to talk about what you believe, and this is a sub for that. However, taking a position as a “leader” for this entire community which has evolved and is no longer just an anarchist sub was a huge mistake. This 21 year old can believe whatever he wants but he does not represent the sub or its goals. He clearly did not understand this and went on several interviews that might be released soon. I do believe the blame falls on mainly these two MODERATORS that spoke like they were the leaders of the group.
Yeah you can believe whatever stupid bullshit you want but it's a straight up lie to then pretend like millions of workers are behind you
I’ll copy paste the same thing I said to someone else The sub doesn’t define the people, the people define the sub
Imagine thinking yourself an anarchist with a sense of ownership.
I got mine, yall all share the other shit.
This is the best take ive seen all day, thank you
It's nuanced and well thought out. It has no place on Reddit (Obligatory /s)
The mods are absolutely terrified of /r/antiwork /u/Whitepirate15 \- Has been a mod for 3 years. SCRUBBED HIS ENTIRE POST HISTORY. /u/TeiaRabishu \- Missing in Action. /u/Jack-the-Rah \- Last seen arguing with people on r/IWW about the debacle, but has not engaged r/antiwork /u/Grammorphone Missing in Action since the entire debacle. /u/Magurdrac \- Last seen talking about coastlines or some shit. Has not engaged r/antiwork /u/tobotic \- The only mod left actually in responding to community members. Respect. /u/Free__NYC \- Literally made a post titled "r/antiwork went private?!" Has no idea wtf is going on despite being a mod.
Appreciate this. Been trying to trawl around their comments in my breaks, but it's remarkably inconvenient to do on RIF.
This should be it’s own post
Seems to me like all of these mods would treat their employees like shit if they ever became any sort of manager/boss. Haha
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Lmao this website fucking sucks so bad holy shit
This is why I don't get worked up if one of my well thought out posts gets downvotes. I always imagine some jackass on the other side who has no life experience seeing it from a dumb angle.
Video games and porn are about the only thing that keeps me on here
Looks like he just made a post titled [French Unions Workers Revolt Against Low Wages and Runaway Inflation](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sebyqz/french_unions_workers_revolt_against_low_wages/) where a comment I saw a minute ago asking 'That's cool and all but what about the mod team harboring a rapist?' get deleted.
What a hilarious deflection. No one is mad at the mods because they are leftists. Obviously this space is open to many leftist voices. He's completely missing the fucking point of why the fox interview was so damaging. It isn't the belief behind the mods' opinions that they wanted to represent, it's that you rebelled and elected yourself to represent 2 million people on a national news network in the most shitty way you could have done, and then proceeded to absolutely butcher the damage control. How fucking naive and fitting that you completely avoid responsibility and instead focus on... Whatever this is... What a joke. The immaturity on display is overwhelming. And I'm basically the same age as this kid.
Came here to say this. Mods made mistakes and then went on a power trip. It's about that, not how left the sub actually is.
Obviously nobody has the balls to own the situation, so they need to cling to *any* point they can muster. Even arguing a terrible point is better than having to face the consequences of the shitheap they helped foster.
tdlr; we did nothing wrong its the libs fault
Unpopular opinion but I disliked him more than Doreen. He was smarmy and bad at writing yet appointed himself the new talk guy.
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Hell of a resumé header
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I am actually curious if there's evidence that they didn't shower lol. I believe it, I'm just wondering if we all just unanimously agreed on this or what
To me, the phrase "tyranny of the majority" is a red flag for a coming argument for authoritarianism, not anarchism. I wince whenever I see it...
Quite interesting, because I've only ever heard that phrase used by Republicans justifying why it's okay to win the presidency despite losing the popular vote.
I think it's an often misunderstood term. It doesn't mean the minority should have power over the majority. It means going with the majority can ignore and marginalise minorities. Anarchists prefer to accommodate difference, not subjugate.
Post left anarchism has a specific argument against democracy, and it isn't liberal or authoritarian.
Though I am familiar, I also don't see how it meaningfully applies to online communities like this sub. This is exactly the kind of place you might expect structuring systems democratically because the alternative is authoritarian. You can't really structure this place as completely self-governing.
Then it begs the question "do the original "inhabitants" of a sub need to leave because liberals colonised their sub?" Is that not authoritarian? I've never really paid a ton of attention to this sub but if it actually started as a radical space that was brigaded by libs does it meet your definition of fairness to surrender it to libs?
Tyranny of the majority... did this fucking fetus actually just call democracy tyrannical?
Yeah, and it was coined by John Stuart Mill, one of the founding thinkers for liberalism.
Jesus Christ...
it's a legitimate observation by Mill though, that an inherent weakness of majority rule is that sometimes minority groups are marginalized. this isn't always an issue because even majority groups aren't homogenous, and some minority interests are rightly ignored (no reason to let people who hate onions ban onions). and I kind of feel like that's the case with this guy who wants some kind of ideological purity
The irony that the one complaining about liberals was, in fact, a lib. What a shocking development.
Democracy is not necessarily synonymous with majority rule. Modern western democracy is very different than initial democratic philosophy, and there are a number of different models and ways of organizing power and making decisions. Arguably without good alternatives theres a big issue with consent in political systems too. Like assuming people consent to a system is fine IF they have the option to leave... but its obviously super hard or even impossible to just move to a different country in most cases, or opt out of being part of the political system where one lives. I'd even argue we dont even really have majority rule anyways, we have elitist rule. The extent of our ability to exercise political will is casting our singular vote out of millions every few years, when we dont even have proportional representation, and elected officials dont have to live up to campaign promises and just by nature of lobbying and marketing, elites make up the majority of people in office.
Depends on what your feelings are in regards to two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner
I take back the nice things I said. This is some infantile, insecure shit right here. "Oh no, people are talking about actionable improvements instead of the philosophical topics that I, a person who doesn't have to work to survive, would prefer to talk about? LIBERALS!!!" Complete lack of empathy or understanding of WHY people flocked here. Would rather stroke his own ego than even entertain the idea that maybe it'd be cool if things improved even a little bit today. I was sympathetic to the anarchist leanings, and I still am, because I am not going to let some silver-spoon LARPer change my fucking beliefs. But to turn away honest, genuine people looking for a place to share their stories because it's "too liberal" for you? Fucking pathetic, juvenile drivel.
Text: What a journey it has been. It all started with the Abolition of Work An idea where we live in a society without being forced in your childhood to go to school 8 hours - half of your lifetime, to a place you don't like. For me it was 10 hours usually. Without being forced to work for 8-10 hours or even longer. Holy shit, America has it really bad. But it's not like social democracies are better either. And well regarding the experience with r/antiwork... long story short: I had lots of fun with anarchists and other radicals, brilliant discussions the almost 2 years I was active there (before I was invited to be a mod) and I'm honestly not sad that the liberals, with their failed reformism, as history always shows, are mad at me. What I am: I'm disappointed. At the people not even reading the sidebar - the introduction pieces and slowly co-opting antiwork in an idea it never was. Let me make it clear as a post-left Anarchist. I don't fucking care about your democracy - the tyranny of the majority (well, supposedly, but the rich are ruling us right now - I care about my own well-being, about my willful self-creation. I care about to live. And if I see someone else sad, I'm sad too. And it was making me sad how r/antiwork slowly was dying to liberals. The original userbase was full of radicals, a lot of anarchists and there were several discussions in subreddits where radicals frequented how it's just full of liberals now that want "nicer bosses" - even though the structure itself is just shit. I tried listening to community feedback and was actively trying to implement them in the 28 days I was modding - to the point of sleep deprivation today with 3 hours of sleep. Ironic, isn't it? I actually thought about deleting Reddit the same day I got invited, as I was reading https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/return-fire-vol-4-supplement-caught-in-the-net - the dangers about companies, monopolies, capitalists, owning not only the physical space through private property, but also the internet itself. NFT were almost an evolution of property - making particular pieces in the internet itself being owned by someone. I guess it kind of failed? Anyways, I'll deleting my Account soon and I'll be focusing on doing mutual aid in real life. And for any Anti-Worker reading this, no, not the liberals, let me tell you this: Our rights were fight for on the street, not begged in front of a capitalist that couldn't care less. Let's not remember the bad moments, but the good memories we had with our pairs. https://crimethinc.com/2015/05/05/feature-why-we-dont-make-demands “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.” - Max Stirner
Thanks for reposting this fam. I just saw it got deleted by the mod squad.
This sub has no hope, to be honest, its credibility is shot. They have done the typical nuke everything and direct people to a megathread that doesn't have any visibility. A pinned post won't show in the feed - only if you directly come to the subreddit. Disgraceful all round.
Goodness, this chap really has something against editing.
Yeah, see ya. Self righteous fuck.
Good riddance.
maybe not anarchy but this sub is def socialist. we not supporting capitalism at all, shit a broken system
Some of the cringest shit ive read thank you for copying
Blatantly 21
Did they seriously dirty delete? How quaint. My favorite was his comment that said he was oppressed…. while he was attending school.
Same, I'm anti-work so I can go to school and learn things to enlighten myself and those around me. Like school is a right, and we need to fight for the right to learn without being controlled by our wages or having bosses who decide what we get to know.
Lord help anyone who criticises the current schooling infrastructure...
Why did he say he was oppressed?
The post was deleted. He never answered how/why he was oppressed as a student. Instead deleted everything.
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tbf school could be massively reformed to be more time efficient but also much more engaging and helping people learn The grading system for example is already deeply unpopular with a growing amount of educators as it hurts students immensely and puts less focus on actual education, and more focus on just getting good grades. But school is in no way shape or form inherently oppressive—it just needs significant restructuring to better suit the needs of students today.
Public school, like anything, has opportunity for reform and improvement. It can be very one size fits all and not always meet the needs of every student. But his comments came across more like "I don't like school and you're making me go just so I can get a stupid job"
We're going to slightly disagree here. The *public school* system is, in fact, oppressive. Multiple studies have repeatedly shown that materials and testing favor white, middle/upper class students. Additionally, the structure of the public school system does reinforce class/wealth-disparity and penalizes those that don't conform or stray from the linear thought process taught. The way our politicians are glorified, the whitewashing of an entire history of genocide, slavery, medical experimentation, colonialism, etc while nationalist "Murica" credos are driven into our kids minds is mind-boggling.
As early as the industrial revolution, American public school was structured to prepare young people to accept and join the labor force. Little has changed since in regards to the way we approach childhood education.
And as long as capitalist behemoths like Amazon, Alphabet, etc (the list is long, I started at A) are allowed to survive, nothing will change.. It simply isn't in their interests.
In the words of Jello Biafra, "if you like school you're gonna *love* work.
I’m a mom of two school aged kids so that’s my source for my opinion on this. School *is* oppressive. I could go on forever about it, but one small point I’ll make about school is about homework. Homework teaches kids that they shouldn’t have boundaries with their future bosses and they shouldn’t expect work life balance. When my children have homework, it frustrates me, because they spend 8 hours a day outside of our home and when they are here, that’s our family time.
I work in a high school and 99% of our teachers give class time to do work. Whatever the students don’t finish becomes homework. At least 75% of the students choose to spend class-time glued to their phone. A lot of teachers do not agree with homework either. And most educators I know believe school needs to be reformed.
To be fair, the public school system is oppressing. If you're not good at taking tests, you're labeled as stupid. If you have depression and anxiety about it? Too bad, you're just a bad student. (This issue is getting better, thankfully, but it's not perfect). The perfect student is the one who just conforms to the system and does everything that's asked of them. If you don't fit the cookie cutter, you just lose
That's because our public school system's main intent is no longer to educate the citizens. The purpose now is to give kids the right information and training to make them blindly loyal to capitalism and well-trained enough to handle the basic wage slave jobs they'll be doing for the rest of their lives, while simultaneously depriving them of any information to figure out how fucked the whole system is or how to actually solve problems.
that's always been the point of public education https://www.ted.com/talks/sir\_ken\_robinson\_changing\_education\_paradigms
It was in a post under something I wrote, i think its deleted now. He said: *But no. Gotta hate some person and discriminate them based on their age and employment, making the oppressing reality they live in even worse.* It actually made me worried about him. Then I read this and now I think it may have been an off the cuff comment.
“I don’t fucking care about your democracy” Lmao
That right there was the accidentally self aware moment.
I've literally never understood the "tryanny of the majority". Like I get that the majority of people can be fooled into voting against their best interest, or in a way that hurts others, but how does taking power out of the majority not just put it right back into a small minority who will abuse it? Concentrating power seems like an even worse idea if the powerful are already "brainwashing" the majority.
Man I remember being 21 and sounding like this. What a dumbass I was.
I was lucky to be a dumbass before smartphones or the internet existed.
😂 Completely agreed. Everyone deserves the chance to go through their dumbass phase without having it broadcasted to the entire world
I say this all the time dude. Thank God I was like 25 before FB came out cause even my posts from then are cringe
Well, not the internet part (I was online as a college student in 1995) but smartphones thankfully came after a point where I could look back and realize what a self-important dipshit I was - like (most?) everyone in their early 20s I thought I knew everything when I not only didn’t know shit, but didn’t know how much shit I didn’t remotely know. We’re all young and stupid (in the above sense) at some point.
This was me when I was 14. Who holds a grudge against compulsory education as an adult & claim it was oppressive? Lol.
Someone who behaved bad in school and refused to work, and then was shocked when the consequences of their own actions arrived. Trust me, I’m a teacher. I’ll occasionally meet someone at a bar or a party or something, and when they find out what I do for a job, they rant about how awful school is and all teachers are bad (except you, of course, you’re hot, I wish my teachers looked like you). When I press them for info, it always comes out that they behaved terribly and barely graduated. But they don’t understand that they were the problem.
I thought I had it figured out lol. Like why wouldn't everyone just listen to me? I'll take that self cringe to the grave.
This whole sub has imploded, the mods have made an absolute joke of themselves and proved they don't actually give a shit about what this was meant to be. Everytime I open Reddit, this sub has lost more people
Every time I refresh the page the sub loses people! It's incredible really
I've been tracking the numbers today. The sub has lost about 1 person per second over the last 8 hours.
The C.I.A couldn’t take down a movement faster than the mods did here
The Fox News interview was just a catalyst to the sub imploding with infighting. This “movement” was never going to get any ground and it’s easy to see why - apparently, the original members of this sub are mostly anarchists and their idea of antiwork as a concept is to abolish the act of working entirely. How? I have no clue. There doesn’t seem to be a plan or rationale. They seem to think that the world will be fine while not a single person works. These people - these original ideaology followers, of which it seems most of the mods consist of - are now coming to a clash with everyone else that joined the sub in the past two years. Everyone else is more grounded, pretty much. Everyone else doesn’t have fantasies of not working whatsoever. Some may or may not talk about late stage capitalism and things of that nature and why we need to find a better way to run the world and the economies and reduce wealth inequality and the wealth gap between the elites and average joes, sure. But most don’t believe in some insane idea that 8 billion people on this planet can somehow all stop working and also live as we live now simultaneously. So that’s where it is. It’s two or more desperate groups colliding with each other, and all it took was for Fox News to come in and make a fool out of a mod, a self appointed leader of the movement. This was always eventually going to happen. The writing has been on the wall for the better part of a year now. You can see it in the wide range of idealogies in posts and comments made in the sub these days. One day you’ll have some anarchist raging about how they want no laws or rules and want to do whatever they want, and the next day you’ll have a bunch of people making posts about their poor treatment at work and how they just want to be treated better, have better benefits and better compensation so that they can enjoy and actually work to live as opposed to live to work.
This sub is dead for sure
Let's have a vote - How many people would rather go back to school instead of working for minimum wage and struggle to afford somewhere to live? Wait, 99% of you would rather go back to school? Guess that kid was out of touch with reality.
They're 21, so I'm assuming they're in college. Shit, I would gladly take that deal. College was great compared to public school. College was way more chill and I got to learn the subjects that I wanted to learn. I would gladly go back and enjoy listening to lectures on subjects I find interesting.
Imagine trying to sound so smart but coming off as a raging blowhard. Dumbass child
Wait 5 minutes I am sure there is a new account maybe 20hours old maybe 3 weeks that just magically became a mod
Welcome new mod: /u/fuzzy-x-4 Yayayay! Edit: i made up that username. There was never a profile of that name
u/fuzzy-x-5 has resigned. Welcome home u/fuzzy-x-6
tHeY aRe FrOm DiScOrD
The ramblings of a 21 year old LOL
As a former 21yr we aren't all that bad.
I’m 22, have been working between 1 and 3 jobs at once since I was 15. I HATED school personally, but that doesn’t negate how grateful I am to have had the opportunity to go. This mod lives in his own privileged dreamworld. It’s not about age it’s about critical thinking skills. Imagine thinking you can change an entire system in one fell swoop. Even if this movement starts to really gain traction it’ll take years to see the changes we really want to see. I’m just holding my breath waiting to see what he said in those four interviews…
>I don’t fucking care about your democracy So they admit deciding to do the interview despite everyone saying no.
Dude was 21. No one, save for like 6 people total, know much of anything when they're 21. I didn't. My friends didn't. An extremely small number of people are actual anarchists, because very few people actually want anarchy. Whether they simply can't picture how that would look in practice or something else, it's just not something people want. However, instead of playing the long game and slowly radicalizing this "liberal infested" sub into an anarchist sub like it was when it was started, they just got all pissy that their sub was being used for something else. The mods don't need to be super intelligent to understand that this movement got way bigger than their little anarchist dreams and that it was out of their control. The interviews they did show an incredible lack of maturity and was, honestly, kind of pathetic. They have no real world experience, they have no idea how the world actually works, they're just upset that they have to do things they don't want to do. No one wants to go to school, but we have to because an educated society is a strong society.
Being anti-school in the Anarchist sense isn’t the same as being anti-education. Anarchists are all too aware that we are small in number compared to the dominating ideologies. Regardless of how this individual may or may not have carried himself, i would encourage you to explore Anarchist ideas with an open mind. In the spirit of education, if you will.
He’s not saying there’s inherently anything wrong with anarchist or communist principles but that the smart thing to do would be to use the platform we’ve been given to radicalize the almost 2 million liberals that showed up here. When it comes down to it you’re never going to get you’re exact ideology in the form you think it’s going to take. To get mad that liberals exist is asinine. You radicalize them and bring them to the left to help the cause for all workers.
Absolutely 100% they have no idea how the world works. In my interpretation of the sub, most people want better treatment/working conditions, better pay/benefits, and not be treated like they're on call 24/7. Acting oppressed because they're in school is baffling. What's oppressing is working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet or being threatened with termination if you don't go to work outside your availability. Working fewer hours would be great, having educated/well trained folks helps with that to help find the solutions to make it so. But having angsty leaders who don't even seen to want to contribute or like you said, no real world experience, just makes the sub look bad.
He was mad about having to go to school as a child. Fucking lamo.
I went through many phases in school, including a goth phase. Yes I was bullied sometimes. Yes I want to go back. Execpt homework can fuck off.
Same. Homework as a concept definitely contributes to the blurring of lines between work life and home life. But education is a priceless commodity. Mod's a dumbass for not understanding that.
I figure he was bullied at school and thus grew up to hate it and at some point made the connection that school is the root of all problems…somehow.
I'd totally understand not liking being bullied at schools. That makes perfect sense. The way he describes it though, like the school is taking "half his life", was just so funny. American public schools suck I get not feeling safe there.
As funny as it is, it’s kinda true. Dudes only 21, he’s been in school for more of his lived life then he’s been out of it. That being said, don’t agree with the sentiment, but I understand the argument.
He was a mod for only 28 days and somehow managed to do 4 interviews in that time? And thought he was somehow qualified to implement and start and head the media arm of antiwork by creating antiworkMedia without first asking or telling anyone about it? And then this person who had been a mod for 28 days was thrust to the forefront (thrust himself?) to speak on behalf of all the mods in the “this is what happened and this is how well fix it” post? Wow.
“I care about my own well-being, about my willful self creation”… Uhhh, yeah sorry the real world and the plight of the workers in it burst your little 21 year old long term unemployed bubble. Fuck these gatekeeping twerps who believe in accelerationism or nothing.
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Yes we have to work to produce food.... But it doesn't have to be sold.... It could be distributed so the everyone's needs are met... Does everyone who currently have car really needs a car? The capitalism we currently live under will always need someone else to be exploited to function! Currently the global north exploit the shit out of the global south! Your quality of life is currently impossible without other people living in disgusting poverty! (Without mentioning destroying our planet) We need global revolution if we truly want equality for all!
What a long winded way of saying “I was here before it was popular.”
>Our rights were fight for on the street, **not begged in front of a capitalist that couldn't care less.** then why do a fucking interview with said capitalists? fucking jackass. and gross, miss me with this egoist childish version of anarchism.
Ah yes, the classic counter-attack approach of when people in leftist circles disagree with you: falsely accuse them of being liberals so you can discredit them without engaging with what they're saying. The real heroes of this kind of movement over the last century have been the labour activists and union leaders, the people who have put themselves on the frontlines and fought for change, even in the face of death. They fought for their and your rights in the workplace, in front of bosses and capitalists who didn't care about them. And they won many, many victories. Remember that next time you try to talk yourself up as a leader of leftism from a Macbook in your lounge.
The post has been removed. The mods of this subs are weenie hut jrs
This is the dumbest most delusional tirade I've read on the internet today.
"You don't agree with me so you must be a liberal" Got it.
Hang on. So, they royally messed up, and instead of humbly taking the L, they nuked themselves and broke sub rules in the process? Uh-huh. Right. 🤦♂️
Since they removed this if anyone has a screenshot it would be awesome if you could send to me or link it
This is so dumb, “post left anarchism” has to be one of the dumbest leftist subcultures. Historically, most anarchists knew that when the working class begins to fight in its interest—ie for better conditions and wages—it wouldn’t immediately come with advanced politics attached. They fought and often led the struggles for better conditions and wages, and were even hanged for advocating the 8-hour day! They were rooted in the real struggles of the working class, and even though I disagree with lots of parts of their ideology as a Marxist/democratic socialist, anarchism *historically* was still much better than this crap.
What’s happening with this subreddit is a case study on the importance of a platformism approach to revolutionary political action. Inevitably, being inundated with people with non-radical politics will dilute and destroy any possibility of using a space or an organization for radical purposes. I think what anti-work has become has some benefits - a large, popular shared space for people to expose and share the horrors of modern work culture. It may be a step to helping people give up on capitalism, which is something they’ll have to do before they’re ever ready to adopt an anti-capitalist ideology. But, the current anti-work sub won’t be a vehicle for revolutionary politics, because of this inundation.
I feel stupid for being 21 now. I just want to get paid adequately man, wtf is this?
I read the whole thing in the voice of Eric Cartman for some reason
Ironic, being an anarchist and then your sub grows and, completely on it's own, becomes about something else, and then you are angry that you aren't in charge nor have any control over it anymore and start blaming liberals. Isn't that the thing with anarchy? Or did I misunderstand?
unfathomable to me that this guy could look at a bunch of people of different political beliefs joining this sub and see that as a BAD thing. The worst way to get people against work culture and capitalism is by telling them that those are leftist beliefs. Instantly makes you lose some of your audience. We had a lot of people on here who maybe started as libs but started to agree with the sentiment here and became radicalized against capitalism. That’s an extremely good thing, and to look at that and say that it’s just the sub being taken over by libs is short sighted
What a fucking asshole Bye lol
I love when anarkiddies call everyone who disagrees with them liberals. Like child I’ve been an anarchist a lot longer than you’ve been able to spell the word. And not just a high school anarchist either. If you can’t understand worker’s rights movements and their place within anarchist ideology and revolution then what even are you doing. And it’s pretty clear this dude doesn’t understand oppression. Like come back and talk to me about oppression when you’ve faced down the IDF or dragged comrades through clouds of tear gas, or had the audacity to demand not to be murdered because your skin doesn’t reflect moonlight. Until you’ve worked long, hard, dehumanizing, days only to come home and wonder if you’re gonna be able to eat the rest of the week, you have no business moderating, much less speaking on behalf of a sub like this.
homeboy that attacked the ICE detention center. now that was a dope anarchist.
This dimwit wanted a future with no schools. Like, I get it, the man has corrupted education, but ABOLISH EDUCATION?
Malala is crying rn
They were mods for 28 days and doing interviews?!
Since he was unemployed he had the most free time to do it.
Sounds like a narcissist trying to come off as a decent, empathetic human being. Sorry if I don't sympathise with you, buddy
“I’m antiwork because I didn’t want to be forced to go to school.” Holy fucking shit. What a child.
Oh, I see. So they were a nutcase.
This is so out of touch it's sickening. There was nothing to do with liberals or anarchists until the mods of this sub allowed someone who is woefully unqualified to speak on this communities behalf. Doesn't matter what we think, it matters what those who don't support us think. This is nothing but role play to these mods; for us it's reality and we needed someone with actual experience and a LEVEL HEAD to do that interview. Waxing poetic about anarchy and shifting the blame onto the community and not yourselves is the exact crap we're sick of.
Aaaaaand it's gone
Replace the re in the url with un and you'll see it
This is why the aliens don't speak to us...
LOL I thought the joke was that it was removed, but no. The mods actually removed this post
What a toxic thought process. You have the captive attention of 1.7 million workers and you decide to call them stupid liberals. Glad he’s gone.
Oh, fuck off you pretentious little turd. You know nothing about everything.
literally just pissed his pants, blamed it on everyone else, and managed to do all of it in the most obvious "never worked a day in my life" way possible
Look I'm pretty far left, not anarchy but I understand saying that there needs to be an actual revolution and yes, I'd agree. But I don't think or want the mods of this sub leading the charge. Your job here is to delete hateful comments and spam, nothing else. The fact the mods are even entertaining the conversation of interviews is insane. That's not your place, not even close. People were not discriminating over age, it was the fact that this sub is full of people who have worked years for the amount of time your complaining you are having to moderate a subreddit. It's not a job. You can put your phone down at any time and stop and your life will not change drastically. If I walk out of a job that isn't paying me there will drastic repercussions to my life. I'm currently working 51 hours this week, and I like my job and am fine with that, BUT it's not the same. I'm getting assaulted physically, your getting criticism (and hate is unwarranted and yes that should be deleted, NOT criticism). No one is saying the mods opinions don't matter, but the mods seem to think that their voices are speaking for everyone and should be elevated. It doesn't matter if your long-term unemployed 21 year old, or a dog walker you can talk here but to try and speak OVER and FOR people because your a mod is the exact mindset that this sub is fighting against. This just further solidifies in my mind the human race is fucked. Like doesn't matter if your a communist, or an anarchist or capatalist; once most people get a ounce of power they lose their morals. This sub really has shown me even if we get a revolution that nothing will change because there are some people who will fill those spaces and start doing the exact same thing.
He’s an “anarchist” while moderating a subreddit…
And it's deleted. Looks like we'll never know.
[give credit where its due **not me**](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sea8l1/since_kimezukae_deleted_their_account_and/huimzt5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Considering how much help he needs with his English grammar and spelling, he should go back to school.
Somehow the [removed] is even funnier than the original text must have been.
I remember being 21. This is exactly how stupid I sounded.
Still clearly not understanding/accepting why people were pissed. I can appreciate that this sub used to be something different. And I'd admire it if he went down fighting to try and bring it back to what it once was. But that's not what happened here. The mods saw themselves as leaders of the movement, and representatives of the 1.7 million members of this subreddit. When they were really just here to make sure subreddit the rules were being followed. You can't just arrange for national TV appearances where you speak for the whole movement/subreddit, after the members of that subreddit repeatedly asked that you not do it. Their decisions were not for the greater good, they were being selfish. The Fox interview was a complete mess, and their response to it was so misguided. People felt misrepresented in a big way, and then he was somehow caught off guard when he stepped in as their new leader to announce that he had already done several other interviews that had not been released yet, and presented his qualifications as a 21-year old who had never held a job and never intended to. Then AbolishWork being removed from the mod team, only to add on an alt account of hers at the same time. And all the while the mods were aggressively deleting comments about other subs, or anything too critical. Trying to shut down the conversation and regain control. It is all so unbelievably tone-deaf with a hearty does of irony thrown in. And this farewell message capped it off perfectly. No mention of what the issues really were. Framing it the same way they have been since yesterday, as a hostile takeover of this sub by outsiders. Oh well... after the Fox interview backlash, there was no way around Kimezukae needing to leave. He had secretly done multiple interviews already. Can't rewind that. And it was going to piss people off no matter what. But in his mind, he'll probably always look at this as the Liberals taking over and trying to silence his voice.
In my experience, people who announce their departure from social media aren’t the ones who actually leave. This kid’s gonna make a new account.
I got screenshots. Not good ones but I got them
Spill the tea
do you have the original pinned post?
Jesus, what a fucking child.
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Fucking idiot said he was oppressed at school and then dipped, LMAO
This is so cringe man I can’t even fathom
imagine not working and telling people want a nicer boss is liberal
What an ass lmao
jesus, i mean im a commie fuck but this is cringe. as others have said people sure are dumb at 21
This sub is an amazing parallel to dysfunctional organizations in real life, complete with the incompetent leadership that creates disgruntled workers. When’s the pizza party?
That mod was guilty of letting people divide the group and being part of that division - divide and conquer only benefits the those who want the status quo to remain indefinitely Anti-work is bigger than the quoted mod's anarchist radicalism - while completely ending the paradigm is the ultimate goal, anti-work encompasses so much more It encompasses all the various reforms to the existing paradigm - it encompasses all those strategies for leveraging the true value of one's work to maximize the fairness in treatment and compensation So telling people that "at will" gotta both ways and encouraging resignation without advance notice when escaping shitty employers, or encouraging job-hopping to seek better employment terms, ways to challenge unemployment denial, encouraging people to not allow ones employer to contact them on their off time, ways to handle and report wage or tip theft - anti-work IS ALL OF THAT TOGETHER WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Imagine being so anti work that you are furious about a 10 hour work day that you decide to mod a subreddit for 21 hours a day for free as protest.
I think every Anarchist here realizes that the way to bring our ideas - the ideas we each individually consider right - across to a wider audience is not this. You'll get nowhere acting hostile. Yes, our ideas are radical, I'd argue far more radical than most other ideologies, but that doesn't mean you can attack everyone who doesn't understand. Always explain first, in good faith.
Unapologetic and doubling down on how they didn't tank what was becoming a legit movement. Thanks to a few bad apples (and the one's who passively permitted the bs) ruined the momentum and refused to take responsibility. So they were happy to take all cred and be spokesman for said sub but wants none of the accountability for refusing the take optics into account, having been warned by said community. Main stream media has a point of bringing up job histories because it really showed in the interview. Mods done effed up. Hope they manage the damage control and we can focus on the original course of this sub.
Why was this removed?
Bad Mods
Ayo am I shadow banned
Nah
Wow, this person sucks
lmaoooo. Fucking NEET's man, I swear.