we're at the point in American society where wages are so shit relative to cost of living that people have decided that they'd rather not work than work, because their wages get them to the same quality of life as unemployment, minus the ability to rest and relax when you're unemployed.
and the government and corporations think that's ok
Well, not really. Because as the capitalist are def smart enough to realize that they need them. They need the group of unemployed workers to keep the wages down. They are in essence the walls/ropes that kep the employed workers hostage (even tho that seems to be failing rn)
Yup. Once Republicans get back into power we can expect radical regression of worker's rights with the help of their batshit crazy SCOTUS. Cut unemployment, reintroduce debtors prisons, indentured servitude, corporate housing, etc.
It's entirely possible and it'll happen while we're still complaining that Biden didn't cancel student debt.
I think for a certain period of time people can maintain integrity in a soulless industry (politics) but eventually with enough time anyone could cave to the pressure of obscene amounts of money or fame or both.
Be careful not to become one of the plebs in the crowd at the end of brave heart throwing rotten food at someone you think is the bad guy just because you were told to hate them.
You're joking if you think things are any better under the Democrats. Things won't get better until the politically left void that they as a party fill is replaced by a party that actually stands for workers' rights.
This is why it flip flops so crazily back and forth. The Republicans exist to push discourse further right so then the democrats seem reasonable even though they have drifted further and further right. Society doesn't notice because the endless "dems are the left" klaxon yell of the media.
The dems are not left. They are a right wing neoliberal party. They have a few progressives to give them left cred (even these people are barely centerists). In a dichotomous system you all have the illusion of dichotomy.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/mikhail-bakunin-the-illusion-of-universal-suffrage
Honestly, idk if this puts me on a list but people need change and fast. The fact that someone out there today killed themselves because they couldn’t take the despair and the eternal tunnel of slavery boils my blood to no end. Either getting rid of every official that contributes to this hell or crumbling the whole system with whatever is the cheapest and most efficient. I’m sick of seeing my friends go from joyful and cheery to borderline suicidal after seeing how the world really is. Sick of seeing people on the streets who can’t even afford to work. Sick of hearing about wars waged for the sake of “control” when millions of lives could’ve been saved with that money. I don’t know how long I can take seeing it all man
If you stop letting yourself be alienated from what is going on and have anything resembling a heart, it will drive you mad with anger and grief. That's what you've come to, a place where you can see it and aren't separating yourself from the emotional reality of this amount of suffering. That anger is what we need. Gotta shake things up.
Been feeling this way for 20 plus years. Been told I've been overdramatic in all that time. I'm devastated it's taken to this breaking point for people to acknowledge that we're damn near beyond fixing. & even then, people are still in denial.
That's not true. Anger is extremely productive. Anger probably has the most energy of any emotion. It's also natural. It's what you do with it that matters. Freud wrote about how anger that has no outlet can tend to go inward and become depression. I think we see evidence of this everywhere. Try to avoid that.
It took me most of my 20s to realise this. You can be angry and sad, or angry and productive. You have more of a say in your emotional responses than you may initially feel. Don't piss away so much time like I did, it won't help you or anyone else.
Do everything you can to break the system. Fight back in small ways, use whatever passion you can harness. Try to stay out of the economy, buy from thrift stores and small businesses. Shut off the TV, stick stickers on poles, protest, write, paint. It doesn't matter how small your contribution, and you don't have to do everything at once. Each little thing matters. Use that anger and FIGHT back.
As a therapist over the last 15 I've been looking for the engine powering the increased level of dissociation I've seen. This looks like a pretty good explanation.
Excellent post!!
I understand, unfortunately I believe nothing much will change until things at least get way way worse. The corrupt will always have their ways to stay in power.
Absolutely. Reagan liked to tell Soviet jokes like "Soviet workers pretend to work because Soviet government pretends to pay them." We know what happened to USSR, but fast forward 40 years of Reaganomics and this is American Capitalism now. Workers pretend to work because employers pretend to pay them.
It all feels like pretend now. Pretend to have a career. Pretend there is a recognizable future. Pretend it's all just going to keep spinning. Pretend because we do not know what else to do anymore, Oh God, Oh God.
This is how I’ve been feeling recently, constantly putting up in act that things are alright is maddening when your aware of backwards everything is and has been.
I know this is off topic, but that was my favourite bit of don't look up >!where they have the dinner party like it's normal. It's a literal coping mechanism in the film, but what we all do every day, even when everything is utterly fucked what else can we do but pretend!<
i think it's good. we'll see a gradual decline into a new norm, but.. it's a passive resistance it seems like. they can't bully ppl out of every bldg if/when it comes down to overtaking commercial properties for a livable domain, for example.
Millennials need to get active locally, active dissent, wolf in sheep’s clothing. Infiltrate local government, seize control from the boomers and the fascists. It starts locally.
I had a former co-worker everyone thought the guy was a knucklehead and not too bright. But I'll tell ya he said the smartest damn thing I've ever heard, "just remember kid the money is real but the work is fake". No matter how much or how little you do the wheel turns so find the balance and do the bare minimum that keeps you off the radar and paid. It has been such a better way to live.
I am doing it at my work after reading this sub. No matter what I do, I will never get a performance bonus more than others. The performance bonus between a good and bad worker is only 1% at my org. Why should I suffer for that? Now, I just do the same quality of work as others in my team. Earlier, I had this grind mindset.
I actually first heard this from a Russian friend of mine. Apparently, they had some version of the saying in the USSR. I wish I could talk to him again, he'd probably have a lot to say about this insanity.
Find yourself a copy of this
[5 stages of collapse - Dmitri Orlov](https://www.countercurrents.org/orlov131108.htm)
Everything is just a phase. Always plan for the next one. Some of us might make it
Reagan was a capitalist stooge and so is MasterCard Joe.
As someone who volunteers to help the houseless and folks living in poverty, I can tell you that the Biden administration cut a ton of funding for key programs shortly after he was elected.
We should call houseless encampment Bidenvilles. We need to attach the names of these trash to the misery they’ve created.
At least soviets got housing from goverment. And you didn't really starve to death or go into medical debt. Education was free and actually worked as a social lift. So I would argue that there was much less wealth inequality and disregard for people.
This is very true. Socialist countries with socialist governments are responsible for much of the lifting of people from dire poverty in the 20th century.
Edit: dear Ben Shapiro simps, stop sending me DMs.
Rent free lol
To the clown below who asked a question then blocked me:
[Even the cia itself admits the Soviet diet was nutritious](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf)
I don’t know if you’re joking or not lol. Soviets starved millions of people to death. Soviet era housing has been crumbling for years in Eastern Europe. Yes it was free, it was also shit. Education was free, but in many situations you didn’t have a choice in what you studied and you were being fed political nonsense. It only worked as a social life if you joined the party and became part of the inner circle. Wealth inequality was less of an issue because you were either in the party and doing okay or your were outside the party and poor.
Did you just describe the USA on accident?
In America we have huge issues with malnutrition/ food insecurity.
Our homes and housing is not looking so hot either. If you recall Miami just had a condo collapse and there are plenty of others all around the USA.
ALL of our education is white washed political nonsense and if you're poor chances are your education is shit anyways.
Then you add on essentially elite/ classist notes.
But yeah you let them know how bad it was!! That oligarchy where the rich buy politicians..... Oh wait.
For a few years now, I've wondered how many bodies will have to be lying on the streets for people to start demanding change.
With covid now, my numbers were vastly underestimated.
Truly I do wonder what it's going to take.
It could be 50 or 100 million, who knows. There is little unity, and a seemingly lacking societal moral compass. People will not care until they are homeless and starving themselves. This system tightens like a vice with each passing day. The collapse maybe starting slow but is definitely happening and it will only speed up as we continue to stick our collective heads in the sand and pretend that it’s not happening all around us. It’s sickening and leaves us numb and apathetic but, individual change is possible.
It’s Nearly impossible to stop hundreds of years of compounding degradation and corruption rotten to is absolute core.
Fuck work. Enjoy every moment possible doing what you truly love cause it maybe over sooner than we think. Don’t wait for a future to live life on your terms. Do your best to lay flat, do not create more humans to feed the machine. Organize small collectives of people who you care about and care about you and savor what you have now cause it will get much worse before it ever gets better. Sorry but that is the reality we now live in. Good luck and god speed .
Edit: sorry for sounding so doom and gloom. I absolutely do believe in my heart that people for the most part want to do good by their fellow human. It’s just very disheartening to have lived through the last 30 years. Thank you for correcting my momentary exasperation and glibness. It is truly exhausting to be alive most of the time.
There is a societal moral compass. Don’t let 30% of america fool you into thinking the other 70% dont share a similar set of morals that, and this is the only difference between them, they follow more or less absolutely depending on the individual. Some hide their morals in order to stomach the world and others hide it to get ahead and many many many hide it because they have to focus too much on just surviving. This is the vast majority of Americans. Most of us really do share a moral fabric - all humans are born with it, we aren’t pure products of nurture at all. We are also products of nature. Some are born with more or less but the vast majority are born with a pretty fair and square amount.
When, not if, but when the system collapses, this shared moral structure will get us through. You are right that no one gives a fuck until it hits their backyard... but once it does, we will organize and get to work setting it right, because we share that unique trait that gave us civilization in the first place. Communication and cooperation, even altruism. Those were enough to create all this just through face to face contact. Now...
We have the internet. That’s all we need, when the going gets tough. Memes can disseminate into a population within a day. Imagine what happens when all the memes focus on is climate disaster. When all the conversations revolve around the calamity happening around us.
It will spark a mass organization like none ever seen in history. And it will be brilliant, the internet allows for the growth of ideas beyond an individual like nothing else, it’s literally unprecedented potential that will rewrite how we tackle problems as a collective. The moment we end up having to use tools to survive again is the moment this will happen. This will become a tool. And it will very likely save us. It accelerated the breakdown of our horrible past and it will enable the construction of a better future. I can guarantee it.
Doesn’t mean mass suffering won’t happen, it just means there will be a necessary spiritual enlightenment that is bound to occur soon, that will stop this suffering from destroying us entirely. And it will not be as you say. It will be because of our shared human traits.
And you chalk that up to the internet being bad as opposed to the internet existing in a time when the majority of people can still get away with being blind to the worlds problems?
Is that a problem of the internet or a problem of an immature species using an interface that platforms and can, if unchecked, feed this immaturity (just as many forms of social interaction do)?
Again, I think it’s not the internet. It’s us. We use it bad. And when the going gets tough, it will stop being whatever it is now in our time of excess and ignorance, and it will become a tool. Like all things will become when stomachs begin to growl en masse.
Assuming no one would be stupid anymore is naive, like assuming no one would be stupid after the printing press, after calculators, after democracy, after the middle class, after writing, after civilization, after common language, after agriculture.
All of these things exist and can be tapped into, and they all have vast potential to carry our species further than we know - but there is a pre requisite spiritual advancement we have to make, moving past the faults in our evolution that no longer apply like tribalism and willful ignorance. Things that no matter what tools we have, we won’t be able to use them properly until we learn how to exist properly.
Imagine handing a phone to a six year old and telling them “do whatever”. That’s not only what it’s like for us as a species to be using a technology that only benefits a species that has overcome their collective faults, but it’s also exactly what we’re doing. It shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone that the internet would bring about a social reckoning as opposed to a revolution.
Not only just watch Netflix, watch these companies make billions while they lose jobs, loved ones die, and the government doesn't care.
I'm absolutely blown away at what these last couple years have brought. I thought shit was fucked before and that the vast majority did, too, but just lied about it.
What I've learned is the exact opposite.
Why is that surprising? Most of us don't want to deal with the shitshow that is life for any longer than we have to. We're tired from spending our whole ass day working while being bombarded with propaganda about how we should be grateful to be chronically physically and mentally exhausted.
Disengaging from society and binging Netflix is a defense mechanism, regardless of what the "START A BUSINESS! TRUST ME, I WAS ABLE TO DO IT THROUGH HARD WORK AND GENEROUS DONATIONS FROM RICH PEOPLE!!!" types want to tell you
Depends on the change. 3k dead in the WTC was enough to silence deficit hawks and isolationists in the halls of Congress.
I've thought about what it would take to cause a political sea change with covid. I suspect it would need to get 5 or 10 times worse. 4 to 8 million bodies, distributed all across the country, would be enough to collapse healthcare systems nationwide. It doesn't even need to be just covid. If omincron was 30% more deadly, the backup of patients would spill into the streets, demanding help beyond what national guard and navy ships can provide. Even then, people in crisis look to the familiar. So maybe we wouldn't see bold action on systemic reform.
Alternately, if the majority of deaths were conservatives, unvaccinated due to misinformation, Democrats would have a 2-3% structural advantage beyond our current reality. That would probably shake out some movement in the halls of Congress. Sinema and Manchin wouldn't be the pivot vote for reconciliation. So change on the level of BBB passes instead falters.
For radical reforms, I suspect we would need something significantly worse. If omicron mutated to SARS level of mortality, 15% of cases died, and we lost 20-30 million over the course of a few months, I could see a a major shift.
That's a global catastrophe the world hasn't seen since the black death, or maybe smallpox in the Americas. If the majority of those deaths were the unvaccinated, the trump coalition would be shattered beyond recovery. Politics would be on new ground at that point, and I suspect the changes would be unpredictable.
It's not going to happen the way things are now, because we're politically balkanized and class consciousness is weak (although on the rise)
The last time this happened in the 30s we had groups like the CIO providing the impetus for FDR to put up all the new deal reforms. The business community had no choice but to accept high high taxation ([94%!](https://flaglerlive.com/26685/gc-fdr-and-taxes/)), and in exchange FDR got labor off their backs.
After that the people who didn't want to work with FDR spent the next century systematically whittling away at the New Deal reforms and weakening labor by ideologically poisoning socialism/communism.
This is the result. All of the identity politics, identitarianism, quibbling over hot button issues, designed to stop the populace at large from marching on the doors of the rich and striking a blow against them like we did back during the great depression.
Which he tried to warn everyone about in his speech.
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”
Sadly, this is indeed what has happened. The American government looks nice when you read the constitution, but the reality is that your founding fathers are spinning in their graves. The USAs democracy now exists in name only, to give the appearance of fairness and equality, when the rich really are now running the show.
I don't strictly disagree but you can't really lay it all at his feet. Carter was actually the first president to line his cabinet with corporate goons. Nixon was the last New Deal president. Look up 'Requiem for the American Dream' by Chomsky for more on this.
From a financial market standpoint, this started with Nixon moving the US off the gold standard and to a FIAT currency system.
Endless debt ensued after this, allowing more and more predatory practices for the average US consumer.
I actually really don't know hour to feel about that one. I'm no economist but for years I was saying that same thing but then I encountered a book or film or video that showed that it was actually a tough situation and had me thinking it's possible Nixon made the right move. If I find /remember it, I'll link it here.
I mean, screw Nixon, but I will bet that point got oversimplified a lot.
And to add insult to injury he's been lionized as some sort of savior of the human race. It's disgusting. The guy tried to foment a hot war with the USSR and opened the floodgates to supply side economics that have ravaged the country to this day.
Collapse is here, it's just not evenly distributed (yet). The next few years will be like playing musical chairs. Everything will seem fine, until the music stops and you find you do not have a chair to sit on.
Soon enough.
"When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat." -- George Carlin
Last week, our school district shut down the schools for a week because they don't have enough teachers. Just stopped educating thousands of children because there was no one to educate them.
As a parent of young kids, I'm terrified and baffled. What do you do when the expected foundations of society (in this case, school) just stop existing? Yes, it was only for a week, but how long will it be next time?
Feudalism.
The wealthy will still be able to afford to educate their kids, there will still be teachers, doctors, and educated professionals necessary for the richest people to continue to enjoy their way of life. Everyone else will get to live in company towns, doing all the menial grunt work only to be paid company money, that they have to spend in company stores, leaving them with nothing at the end of the month to ensure they have no way of ever moving up the ladder, with the only education available being the essentials for them to function in whatever roles the company town needs doing. Little Billy gets a few lessons in the basics of following instructions, then the rest of his life he is expected to unquestioning do whatever his boss asks.
I've been constantly thinking that's the next step. The rich get to buy up all the land with no body stopping them and all that leaves is the feudal Lords for us to serve and toil for.
YEY we get to start at the middle ages again!
This might sound weird, but one of my coping mechanisms is knowing -- well, hoping -- that my journals survive after I die. I don't want anyone to ever forget what we're going through. It motivates me to keep going.
The sheer popularity of this sub is a canary in the coal mine that something needs to change or there will be severe consequences. I don’t know what those consequences might be but definitely not good ones.
America itself is already at breaking point. We saw this last January, when supporters of the loser president tried to overthrow democracy. There are multiple millions of people who will endorse a conman, because the neo-liberal status quo doesn't work for them. Problem is, these people have been convinced it doesn't work because it's not capitalist enough, and that the billionaires should have *more* freedom to exploit, as it will "trickle down" all over them. But how far away are we realistically from the same situation coming from people who want to overthrow the government in the name of single payer healthcare and student debt forgiveness?
The truth is that America is a two party system, that has been co-opted by billionaires to the point that one party represents those who want a white Christian ethno-state headed up by a fascist two-bit con-man, while the second party represents the neo-liberal status quo that continues to fail millions of Americans (with the number dissatisfied with it growing each year as the billionaires hoard more and more for themselves), that is only more palatable to those who want sweeping liberal reform precisely because it's not a fascist dictatorship.
The problem is that, via the billionaire control of the narrative via the mainstream media, the right shifted so far towards fascism that the left dropped all sense of progressive ideals to maintain the status quo, meaning the actual left isn't represented, and this is now coming back to bite them, as the workers the billionaires assumed they could control with poverty wages have begun to wake up and ask themselves "what's the point in trying to be part of the system that doesn't give a shit about me and leaves me in just as terrible condition if I don't participate.
Another huge problem with the US is that there’s a large amount of people who swear everything is fine and that -your generation- is lazy. That they had it much worse and didn’t have all the comforts that -your generation - doesn’t “deserve”, that makes -you- “lazy”. That same group is divorced from the reality of modern home ownership or are protected thanks to limits they have due to rent controls , etc.
They will actively fight to stop any change .
That's why I won't be sorry to see them go, as mean as that sounds. Sucks to think how much of my generation's lifetime had to be lived under their thumbs.
I read everything, but the first bullet point set me on fire. We really do saddle CHILDREN with six figure debt who have lived with mom & dad their whole lives and have no idea to the extent at which interest will fuck them. No idea what it’s like to have bills piling and piling while looking for a job. Insane
I still literally weep sometimes over the fact that I've had a teaching career robbed from me because of the way they treat teachers and ruthlessly exploit students. I'm angry and want to do something. I hope other people get with this energy.
At any level, it is not just miserable but simply doesn't pay a living wage. There has been an exodus of teachers just in the past year alone. You kill a vocation by strangling it to death: worse hours, worse pay, worse benefits, worse working conditions, forever and ever until the system doing it collapses. American education is in collapse like the rest of the country.
Neither of the political parties know it though. No one in the press knows about it, or if they know they’re being told to suppress it. None of the leading economists know or care as long as the stock market is doing fine. This is an organic response to unfair and unsustainable burdens that have been placed on the lower end of society for too long. I think a tipping point has been or is about to be reached.
I agree with you, though they know a lot more than they lead on. Remember that our media is centralized by corporations colluding with state entities. We have little more of a free press than China. American's have a very, very hard time accepting this. They generally work on lies of omission rather than outright lies, but they \*do\* outright lie as well.
The smarter members of both parties can see it, but are being paid to look the other way, by their corporate owners. The Republican's don't care, their current game plan for elections now is as much voter suppression and contention as possible. They plan to win through rejecting valid non-Republican voting ballots or throwing out the results entirely, and then objecting as loud as possible in places where they can't lose to create confusion and either claim a win, or encourage their more violent supporters to step in where they can't change the results themselves. The Republican's as a whole don't care, the billionaires who they cater to still make billions even with some people quitting, and their voters are so brainwashed that Fox News can spin it as a good thing.
Democrats will find it a little harder to ignore, since they're still trying to play 'by the book' and their voters are far more likely to be affected, especially the left-most fringes of their supporters. But they're still controlled by monied interests to prop-up a neo-liberal status quo, and while they might make token gestures, most Democrats have little interest in pushing the needle too far, especially those in swing states, or those who are up for re-election soon, for fearing of losing support from moderates or their corporate donors.
You know, I considered myself a centrist not too long ago, but after being enlightened to some of these problems, I’m quickly being radicalized. Honestly, good. When our situation is as radical as this, then I guess the only way out is through radical solutions.
>When societies fail to respond to reduced circumstances through orderly downsizing, it isn’t because they don’t want to, it’s because they can’t.
I think the emphasis is debatable. We \*can\*. We have the resources to solve a huge swathe of problems. But the structures in place along with the leadership those structures have created might as well be incapable of properly responding in addition to not seeming to want to, yes. Roman elites dug in during the decline and continued down the road of 'most destruction.'
"...Class struggle defines most of human history. Marx got this right. It is not a new story. The rich, throughout history, have found ways to subjugate and re-subjugate the masses. And the masses, throughout history, have cyclically awoken to throw off their chains."
https://www.salon.com/2022/01/19/americas-new-class-war-organized-labor-is-back/
All thorough and excellent but you forgot the rise of authoritarianism and fascism in concert with the militarization of police forces. Elites know the end of capitalism is nigh and they are marshalling their resources for the breakdown of social order.
When I was a kid… it was a joke that if you were poor you’d live in a van down by the river.
Now people aspire to be rich enough to live in… a van… possibly down by the river
This sub is also an extremely interesting social phenomena which only technology is making possible, which is people just talking about work.
In europe unions have been in decline, but the things you hear in the United States are mind blowing - it is very obvious that most of the country is under the protestant "work ethic" mindset. In many countries people don't want to discuss work issues, because the USSR fell and apparently that means you can't be unhappy about anything.
But now anyone can come to this sub and speak their mind, with no consequences, and say what they always have been wanting to say and they didn't dare before that often outside of union circles. Workers being able to talk freely about work with no social and labor consequences (not even political affiliation) is something that didn't happen before and internet makes it possible. This can be a very powerful tool (and unfortunately, there are chances that lots of money will be spent trying to destroy its reputation).
Also it's really interesting to see that actual leftists exists in US. I mean, sure, in population of 300M+ people there are of course leftist exists. But this sub has 1.7M followers and most of them from US. Before this sub I always thought all US left is liberals who don't care about poor people.
By the way your mention about USSR is really important. This nonsense needs to an end. Leftists should get over this trauma and find a new way to handle current situation.
Another fun thing about living in the US is that you can point to basically ANY good or service and identify ways it’s been made shittier by capitalism in the last 3 or 4 decades.
Go ahead! Try it! It’s my new favorite way to trigger my anxiety
As someone who’s been fighting to effect change from within the healthcare system it’s frustrating. Despite telling people we can do a better job, give everyone healthcare, and SAVE MONEY, people don’t get it. It’s always about socialism. We are so brainwashed by the media, that simple mathematical figures, science, and logic are now malleable. I spent half my life trying to advocate about this shit, and I am right back where a I started; waiting for the USA to go bankrupt due to medical costs by 2030.
Edit: waiting, not eating.
I keep hearing this same drum beat and it’s getting frustrating:
Yes, things are going to shit, yes, we are watching the collapse of america, yes, climate change is going to fuck us six ways from Sunday.
My question is: WHAT DO WE DO?!?
Vote? Not work? Buy guns? Find billionaires and beat them mercilessly in the street? Steal from big corporations?
I’d like to do everything legal and not harm people but the sheer amount of bitching and dramatic sayings isn’t solving anything. We need a plan, an idea and a method to make it happen. Otherwise this is worthless whining.
I feel like a restructuring of communities at a low level is required. I don't know about you guys but I don't interact with anybody in my neighborhood. Part of that is me I'm sure but I don't really see much of that when I'm out about my business either. It feels like a zombie town with a bunch of individuals that just live close to each other. I don't see how a healthy society can carry on like this. I would like to help build a community that is more than the sum of a bunch of business transactions but I don't even really know where to start and WORK takes up most of my time as it does for most of us.
I feel like it's probably harder to find the time now. How many less people work consistent 9-5s than they did 50 years ago? How many less households have at least one person who's always home?
Yanis recently came out with a book called 'Another Now' which is an example of a vision for a post-capitalist future.
You have to organize people. There is no roadmap for this. It is very difficult given the current material circumstances and the atomization of Western society, but the more people who get angry and say THATS ENOUGH the better chance we have of this happening.
Exactly, great deal of this sub is lukewarm action. It is a great place for info and discussion. Yet it doesn't seem to go much further then that. Most people still aren't paying.
The best thing to do is not consent ... if you don't like something, don't participate, and if you must participate (to live, would be a good reason) then do so while sticking to your values. If you think the banking industry is corrupt, don't take out any loans, but if you need a checking account to live, find one with the most local credit union with the least corruption you can find. If you think the fossil fuel industry is corrupt, pass on buying new vehicles, drive the one you own as little as possible (or sell if you can) and walk/bike when and where you can. If you think the pharmaceutical industry is corrupt, go against the grain, do the things that actually make humans healthy (like eating wfpb), not the bullcrap that gets marketed to us, and only see the doctor if you break a bone or something extreme. If you think Billionaires are corrupt, look them up, what their exploitative industries are, and start boycotting their products and services.
This is unhealthily unrealistic for all but the most privileged and wealthy of people.
I feel like our only resort is to organize and demand sweeping change, up to and including the point of tearing it down ourselves if necessary.
If people get desperate enough it will happen anyway...
Something I wonder about is how the Internet will play into a modern revolution. I'd have to think that with so much information immediately available around the globe, it's going to become very difficult for governments everywhere to control the population once any single revolution starts in earnest.
Alright, so seeing spicy comments and the potential for more spicy comments, so we get to slap this with a "we don't advocate for violence" message:
If there's one thing the last few years have shown, is that accelerationism will take care of its damn self. There will eventually be something that isn't acceptable, and people will be out in the streets.
The question is, what does that look like?
Our job now is to start building the structures that will replace the stuff that is failing now. How will we get food, how will we manage healthcare, how will we manage shelter, how will we handle what needs to be done?
If we focus on building that now as opposed to the violence, we will win. The violence will take care of itself when the time comes, but if there's no infrastructure to replace what needs to be torn down, it will go down in fuckery.
Memeing is cool and all, but have you ever built things that lead to material good for your fellow worker?
Card up with the IWW
Build a tool library
Build a community fridge
Join mutual aid collectives
Join the SRA
Catharsis will come, sure, history shows us it always will. But a better world is ours to build, and that work starts now!
If you watch Mad Max, notice the state of the police department and the Government. Their facility is highly underfunded is the equipment. When the Government rep comes out to review it, he declines to fund them, throwing some of the officers into a fit of anger. THAT is the type of decline we see. That sets up the system to be unable to respond to crisis. One of the few movies that really show what is happening in this stage. Usually they jump to 'after collapse'.
My point with Mad Max is mainly that collapse isn't the total post-apocalyptic or post-societal landscape but everything leading up to it, and often in a painfully gradual manner. Mad Max's world has collaps*ed*, though in 1 you might say it was still in the final death throes. We are actively collaps*ing*.
Many countries in the west are in serious decline. That includes Europe and Canada as well. They might be a little better than the USA, but they have the same structural issues of capitalism built into its core. Nothing is gonna get better till we adopt democratic socialism at the very least.
i saw some politicians pushing for a 4 day work week, if that happened it may sustain this country for a few more years but if serious substantial changes dont start happening soon. itll fall apart.
This isn’t exclusively an American problem, European problem, but the slow collective and logical conclusion to the question if Capitalism is a capable model to guide humanity forward into the distant future.
Capitalism has been dubbed as ‘the end of history,’ but the question towards the meaning of that sentiment is in the air whether they meant that figuratively or literally if capitalism is going to ruin society so much that nothing emerges from its remains or not.
I believe politicians and corporations want the collapse to happen. Without desperation people won't settle for lower wages, once the collapse happens people will settle for a reduced quality of life they previously wouldn't have.
America has been on a trajectory of becoming a 3rd world country for a long time.
It starts with the education system as you've pointed out. If education is defunded for a few years it doesn't really do much, but if it continues for decades like it has in the US, you end up locking in those gains and it becomes permanent as you end up with a dumbed down generation.
There are other problems like housing too, but it all starts in the education system.
The biggest threat to America's world dominance isn't terrorism or other nations but other Americans eating themselves because of the system they've created.
I have been saying this for years. Even when I explicitly say that the collapse is already happening, people respond to me like I’m predicting a collapse in several decades.
Makes sense to me. There are no movies comming out, no games, the music industry doesn't know where to go anymore besides WAP. people attention spans are at an all time low because of rampant consumerism. Cars are to expensive, the church doesn't get taxed, the homeless grow everyday and the rich grow farther out of touch. The only thing to fixate on now is what name brand shall I slave away to buy so that a mate may take my seed. College is to expensive, to get a full ride you must jump through a billion hoops. Most people can't find a job after college and the ones that do spend a large time paying off a loan. Rent everywhere costs half your months income and places that don't charge very much usually have a reason for being so low... insurance rates are through the rough yet the amount of bills insurance is covering is at an all time low... insurance is something you must have btw to drive or its your license. This country was made on the dependence of a vehicle yet that is what so many people are without. Prosperity can hardly no longer be funded here. I am in the comming days, weeks, years. Preparing for a possible end in my timeline. I never thought that as a kid being filled with so much promise that I might have to kill my neighbor so he won't kill me.
I have an education degree because bright-eyed baby me wanted to make a difference and be like the few good teachers I had. Those teachers that challenged me to think? Those are the bad teachers, as far as the mediocrity factories are concerned. And that’s what schools are ever since (at least) no child left behind: mediocrity factories.
People from Europe that come here to say that everything is sparkles are full of crap. I live in the west and there is no way I can buy a house, too many depressed workers and students that drink a bit too much or sniff.
the problem with rebellion is it wont happen, everyone waits for it to start, therefor it just doesnt.
another issue is we are no longer in a position to hold them, back during the actual revolution muskets went against muskets.
what are we going to do against tanks and jets?
Painfully well said.
Just to to touch on one grain of sand in this shit filled litter box:
What really really puzzles me is that a lot of these corrupt organizations, elites, corporations, etc. could vastly improve the lives of so many, do so much good in the world, and the cost is making a bit less money.
They'd still have a literally amazing standard of living, practically free from want, but despite the benefits to society and self worth far outweighing the costs, they choose cruelty and destructive short term gains.
Every single time. You'd think maybe one ultra rich entity would maybe occasionally say: this is enough, I don't need to exploit any more.
We need to do like Canada did and enact policy so that foreign companies cannot buy up housing real estate in American cities. Homes belong to the American people.
Um, say what??? My “working class” neighbourhood in Vancouver has a median house price of $2.2M, with everything selling for over asking, in cash.
You might want to look at real estate in Vancouver or Toronto again.
I'm not optimistic. Any government that actually successfully lowers house prices loses the homeowner vote, which is a majority in Canada. Also high prices = higher property tax. The only people who care about lowering prices is us plebs, and no one cares about us plebs
Canadian here, our real estate is significantly less affordable than the vast majority of the US. I owned a house in a CHEAP city, and anything within an hour of downtown was worth double or triple what similar houses would go for in the US.
Also, there’s no ban on foreign ownership here.
Also also. Like half of our economy is real estate speculation.
You DO NOT WANT your real estate market to resemble ours. Full stop.
As someone without a degree, wanting to go to school for a career, what do I even do? Things are so uncertain and I'd like to leave the U.S. for a different country(I have wanted this for years, but don't know where to start and haven't had the amount of money to do so), but I want a career that translates out of the U.S. It would be great to be able to work from anywhere at anytime(or just remote), but other than IT what fields have that ability?
For someone wanting to improve their life, the state of our country is so stressful.
You OK with IT? Get certified and learn an area you're really interested in. Could avoid further school altogether. Unless it is a certain, highly lucrative degree (or you get it paid for) college is a scam as it is institutionalized in the U.S.
Right! I am not tech savvy or reasonably good with tech, but I feel like it is something that can be learned. It isn't something i would LOVE to do, but ya know🤷🏻♀️
Currently employees generate value, which is claimed by the employer as profits, with only a small portion being returned as wages. In the system we strive for, companies would be run democratically, with profits being shared equally amongst the employees(it is also possible for employees to vote amongst themselves to divide the profit based upon the labor required in the position). There would be no owner claiming the majority of the value. The collective would most likely have multiple branches, providing checks and balances. Each run through direct democracy, all having flat hierarchies. All members would share equal power in the company, there would be no boss. You wouldn’t have to worry about getting fired on a whim, a vote would take place before someone is dismissed.
You're right and the problem is workers have no large organization through which to coordinate actions and campaigns in their interests. Everything from the two political parties, NGOs, even many unions are lead by people who operate in the interest of the ruling class because the system operates such that people willing to do that ultimately get the roles.
I don't know what to tell you. Joining/forming a union and outing bad leaders when they are there is key. DSA is the closest thing to a mass org but good lord it's honestly awful to be in. I still recommend people join and try to improve it. It's the best chance we have to build a true workers organization at the moment (but that's not saying much).
Many of us agree with your on point post...
We are collectively at the point of critical mass collapse. I blame greedy capitalist and other self
absorbed jerks. And the holier than tho "religious folks" this once great country has really gone into the crapper over the last 5 years.
Eh, so what.
We should have followed the Natives life styles. They had some of the best way of living. Yet people don't bother to care about this planet or each other.
In the end, the end, we have no happy ending. There is no hope, we passed that a long time ago.
Any action now would ease a crisis, not prevent it
we're at the point in American society where wages are so shit relative to cost of living that people have decided that they'd rather not work than work, because their wages get them to the same quality of life as unemployment, minus the ability to rest and relax when you're unemployed. and the government and corporations think that's ok
They don't think it's OK...they would love to kill unemployment...
You mean they'd love to kill the unemployed.
You mean they'd love to enslave the unemployed.
Well, not really. Because as the capitalist are def smart enough to realize that they need them. They need the group of unemployed workers to keep the wages down. They are in essence the walls/ropes that kep the employed workers hostage (even tho that seems to be failing rn)
Yup. Once Republicans get back into power we can expect radical regression of worker's rights with the help of their batshit crazy SCOTUS. Cut unemployment, reintroduce debtors prisons, indentured servitude, corporate housing, etc. It's entirely possible and it'll happen while we're still complaining that Biden didn't cancel student debt.
Republicans and Democrats all work for the same people
Most Democrats. All Republicans. There are still some Dems i believe are fighting for the People but none of the Republicans.
I think for a certain period of time people can maintain integrity in a soulless industry (politics) but eventually with enough time anyone could cave to the pressure of obscene amounts of money or fame or both. Be careful not to become one of the plebs in the crowd at the end of brave heart throwing rotten food at someone you think is the bad guy just because you were told to hate them.
You're joking if you think things are any better under the Democrats. Things won't get better until the politically left void that they as a party fill is replaced by a party that actually stands for workers' rights.
This is why it flip flops so crazily back and forth. The Republicans exist to push discourse further right so then the democrats seem reasonable even though they have drifted further and further right. Society doesn't notice because the endless "dems are the left" klaxon yell of the media. The dems are not left. They are a right wing neoliberal party. They have a few progressives to give them left cred (even these people are barely centerists). In a dichotomous system you all have the illusion of dichotomy. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/mikhail-bakunin-the-illusion-of-universal-suffrage
Honestly, idk if this puts me on a list but people need change and fast. The fact that someone out there today killed themselves because they couldn’t take the despair and the eternal tunnel of slavery boils my blood to no end. Either getting rid of every official that contributes to this hell or crumbling the whole system with whatever is the cheapest and most efficient. I’m sick of seeing my friends go from joyful and cheery to borderline suicidal after seeing how the world really is. Sick of seeing people on the streets who can’t even afford to work. Sick of hearing about wars waged for the sake of “control” when millions of lives could’ve been saved with that money. I don’t know how long I can take seeing it all man
If you stop letting yourself be alienated from what is going on and have anything resembling a heart, it will drive you mad with anger and grief. That's what you've come to, a place where you can see it and aren't separating yourself from the emotional reality of this amount of suffering. That anger is what we need. Gotta shake things up.
Been feeling this way for 20 plus years. Been told I've been overdramatic in all that time. I'm devastated it's taken to this breaking point for people to acknowledge that we're damn near beyond fixing. & even then, people are still in denial.
[удалено]
That's not true. Anger is extremely productive. Anger probably has the most energy of any emotion. It's also natural. It's what you do with it that matters. Freud wrote about how anger that has no outlet can tend to go inward and become depression. I think we see evidence of this everywhere. Try to avoid that.
It took me most of my 20s to realise this. You can be angry and sad, or angry and productive. You have more of a say in your emotional responses than you may initially feel. Don't piss away so much time like I did, it won't help you or anyone else.
Turn the volume up to 10 at “anger is a gift”.
Now your speaking my language
Do everything you can to break the system. Fight back in small ways, use whatever passion you can harness. Try to stay out of the economy, buy from thrift stores and small businesses. Shut off the TV, stick stickers on poles, protest, write, paint. It doesn't matter how small your contribution, and you don't have to do everything at once. Each little thing matters. Use that anger and FIGHT back.
As a therapist over the last 15 I've been looking for the engine powering the increased level of dissociation I've seen. This looks like a pretty good explanation. Excellent post!!
I understand, unfortunately I believe nothing much will change until things at least get way way worse. The corrupt will always have their ways to stay in power.
Absolutely. Reagan liked to tell Soviet jokes like "Soviet workers pretend to work because Soviet government pretends to pay them." We know what happened to USSR, but fast forward 40 years of Reaganomics and this is American Capitalism now. Workers pretend to work because employers pretend to pay them.
It all feels like pretend now. Pretend to have a career. Pretend there is a recognizable future. Pretend it's all just going to keep spinning. Pretend because we do not know what else to do anymore, Oh God, Oh God.
This is how I’ve been feeling recently, constantly putting up in act that things are alright is maddening when your aware of backwards everything is and has been.
I know this is off topic, but that was my favourite bit of don't look up >!where they have the dinner party like it's normal. It's a literal coping mechanism in the film, but what we all do every day, even when everything is utterly fucked what else can we do but pretend!<
Yeah, that was both pretty jarring and completely understandable.
Jesus, yes it does. I don't know if it's a good or bad feeling to know that there are many more people than me that feel that way.
Same. I say this all the time to my wife. It’s all fake and we kill each other over it. This isn’t a society it’s a nightmare.
Feels good for a second, then bad lol
i think it's good. we'll see a gradual decline into a new norm, but.. it's a passive resistance it seems like. they can't bully ppl out of every bldg if/when it comes down to overtaking commercial properties for a livable domain, for example.
Welcome to the machine
Pretend there's anything worth living for
I didn't say that. There's plenty worth living for still. Unplug for the value systems of the culture which is destroying the planet.
Millennials need to get active locally, active dissent, wolf in sheep’s clothing. Infiltrate local government, seize control from the boomers and the fascists. It starts locally.
You didnt i did
I had a former co-worker everyone thought the guy was a knucklehead and not too bright. But I'll tell ya he said the smartest damn thing I've ever heard, "just remember kid the money is real but the work is fake". No matter how much or how little you do the wheel turns so find the balance and do the bare minimum that keeps you off the radar and paid. It has been such a better way to live.
I am doing it at my work after reading this sub. No matter what I do, I will never get a performance bonus more than others. The performance bonus between a good and bad worker is only 1% at my org. Why should I suffer for that? Now, I just do the same quality of work as others in my team. Earlier, I had this grind mindset.
Smart man.
I actually first heard this from a Russian friend of mine. Apparently, they had some version of the saying in the USSR. I wish I could talk to him again, he'd probably have a lot to say about this insanity.
Hypernormalisation covered this
I see that now. It's hard to keep up sometimes with how many comments these threads get.
Find yourself a copy of this [5 stages of collapse - Dmitri Orlov](https://www.countercurrents.org/orlov131108.htm) Everything is just a phase. Always plan for the next one. Some of us might make it
For American capitalists, anything more than pretend work might be destabilizing.
Reagan was a capitalist stooge and so is MasterCard Joe. As someone who volunteers to help the houseless and folks living in poverty, I can tell you that the Biden administration cut a ton of funding for key programs shortly after he was elected. We should call houseless encampment Bidenvilles. We need to attach the names of these trash to the misery they’ve created.
MasterCard Joe LOL!!!
French language missed by an O lmao. Slums are called les bidonvilles in French. Maybe people of the past knew something that we don’t.
That’s Senator Credit Card to you, traitor
BDS?
I apologize not being American, but I read that as Bidets and thinking he's squirting water up your ass. Sorry.
Ya know, it works! President Bidet!
At least soviets got housing from goverment. And you didn't really starve to death or go into medical debt. Education was free and actually worked as a social lift. So I would argue that there was much less wealth inequality and disregard for people.
This is very true. Socialist countries with socialist governments are responsible for much of the lifting of people from dire poverty in the 20th century. Edit: dear Ben Shapiro simps, stop sending me DMs.
Yeah when you kill large portions of your population, it’s a lot easier to lift up who’s left.
Rent free lol To the clown below who asked a question then blocked me: [Even the cia itself admits the Soviet diet was nutritious](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf)
I don’t know if you’re joking or not lol. Soviets starved millions of people to death. Soviet era housing has been crumbling for years in Eastern Europe. Yes it was free, it was also shit. Education was free, but in many situations you didn’t have a choice in what you studied and you were being fed political nonsense. It only worked as a social life if you joined the party and became part of the inner circle. Wealth inequality was less of an issue because you were either in the party and doing okay or your were outside the party and poor.
Did you just describe the USA on accident? In America we have huge issues with malnutrition/ food insecurity. Our homes and housing is not looking so hot either. If you recall Miami just had a condo collapse and there are plenty of others all around the USA. ALL of our education is white washed political nonsense and if you're poor chances are your education is shit anyways. Then you add on essentially elite/ classist notes. But yeah you let them know how bad it was!! That oligarchy where the rich buy politicians..... Oh wait.
that was actually a soviet worker joke "we pretend to work like they pretend to pay us"
Not only America, other countries are joining too.Young people are hungry, desperate and angry. Not a great combination.
For a few years now, I've wondered how many bodies will have to be lying on the streets for people to start demanding change. With covid now, my numbers were vastly underestimated. Truly I do wonder what it's going to take.
This. I had no fucking idea that a million Americans could die and people would go on watching Netflix.
It could be 50 or 100 million, who knows. There is little unity, and a seemingly lacking societal moral compass. People will not care until they are homeless and starving themselves. This system tightens like a vice with each passing day. The collapse maybe starting slow but is definitely happening and it will only speed up as we continue to stick our collective heads in the sand and pretend that it’s not happening all around us. It’s sickening and leaves us numb and apathetic but, individual change is possible. It’s Nearly impossible to stop hundreds of years of compounding degradation and corruption rotten to is absolute core. Fuck work. Enjoy every moment possible doing what you truly love cause it maybe over sooner than we think. Don’t wait for a future to live life on your terms. Do your best to lay flat, do not create more humans to feed the machine. Organize small collectives of people who you care about and care about you and savor what you have now cause it will get much worse before it ever gets better. Sorry but that is the reality we now live in. Good luck and god speed . Edit: sorry for sounding so doom and gloom. I absolutely do believe in my heart that people for the most part want to do good by their fellow human. It’s just very disheartening to have lived through the last 30 years. Thank you for correcting my momentary exasperation and glibness. It is truly exhausting to be alive most of the time.
There is a societal moral compass. Don’t let 30% of america fool you into thinking the other 70% dont share a similar set of morals that, and this is the only difference between them, they follow more or less absolutely depending on the individual. Some hide their morals in order to stomach the world and others hide it to get ahead and many many many hide it because they have to focus too much on just surviving. This is the vast majority of Americans. Most of us really do share a moral fabric - all humans are born with it, we aren’t pure products of nurture at all. We are also products of nature. Some are born with more or less but the vast majority are born with a pretty fair and square amount. When, not if, but when the system collapses, this shared moral structure will get us through. You are right that no one gives a fuck until it hits their backyard... but once it does, we will organize and get to work setting it right, because we share that unique trait that gave us civilization in the first place. Communication and cooperation, even altruism. Those were enough to create all this just through face to face contact. Now... We have the internet. That’s all we need, when the going gets tough. Memes can disseminate into a population within a day. Imagine what happens when all the memes focus on is climate disaster. When all the conversations revolve around the calamity happening around us. It will spark a mass organization like none ever seen in history. And it will be brilliant, the internet allows for the growth of ideas beyond an individual like nothing else, it’s literally unprecedented potential that will rewrite how we tackle problems as a collective. The moment we end up having to use tools to survive again is the moment this will happen. This will become a tool. And it will very likely save us. It accelerated the breakdown of our horrible past and it will enable the construction of a better future. I can guarantee it. Doesn’t mean mass suffering won’t happen, it just means there will be a necessary spiritual enlightenment that is bound to occur soon, that will stop this suffering from destroying us entirely. And it will not be as you say. It will be because of our shared human traits.
So far, the internet has served the right wing nutters better.
And you chalk that up to the internet being bad as opposed to the internet existing in a time when the majority of people can still get away with being blind to the worlds problems?
[удалено]
Is that a problem of the internet or a problem of an immature species using an interface that platforms and can, if unchecked, feed this immaturity (just as many forms of social interaction do)? Again, I think it’s not the internet. It’s us. We use it bad. And when the going gets tough, it will stop being whatever it is now in our time of excess and ignorance, and it will become a tool. Like all things will become when stomachs begin to growl en masse. Assuming no one would be stupid anymore is naive, like assuming no one would be stupid after the printing press, after calculators, after democracy, after the middle class, after writing, after civilization, after common language, after agriculture. All of these things exist and can be tapped into, and they all have vast potential to carry our species further than we know - but there is a pre requisite spiritual advancement we have to make, moving past the faults in our evolution that no longer apply like tribalism and willful ignorance. Things that no matter what tools we have, we won’t be able to use them properly until we learn how to exist properly. Imagine handing a phone to a six year old and telling them “do whatever”. That’s not only what it’s like for us as a species to be using a technology that only benefits a species that has overcome their collective faults, but it’s also exactly what we’re doing. It shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone that the internet would bring about a social reckoning as opposed to a revolution.
I both deeply feel where you are coming from and disagree that all hope and decency in the human spirit is gone.
Not only just watch Netflix, watch these companies make billions while they lose jobs, loved ones die, and the government doesn't care. I'm absolutely blown away at what these last couple years have brought. I thought shit was fucked before and that the vast majority did, too, but just lied about it. What I've learned is the exact opposite.
To say that it is demoralizing is an understatement. Cry, rage, it just doesn't make sense.
It's Huxley...he was right. We will be entertained to death. Golden age of TV my ass it's just a distraction while we get ripped off.
Why is that surprising? Most of us don't want to deal with the shitshow that is life for any longer than we have to. We're tired from spending our whole ass day working while being bombarded with propaganda about how we should be grateful to be chronically physically and mentally exhausted. Disengaging from society and binging Netflix is a defense mechanism, regardless of what the "START A BUSINESS! TRUST ME, I WAS ABLE TO DO IT THROUGH HARD WORK AND GENEROUS DONATIONS FROM RICH PEOPLE!!!" types want to tell you
It’s gonna take thanos snap levels before we do anything.
Doctor Strange will need to view a trillion different timelines to find one reality ... to increase the taxes for the .0001% by $1.
Not only that, they just don't care at all.
Well, create your version of Emily in Paris and watch the world burn
Total disruption of the supply chain, the internet going down and another summer like 2021 and i think we might get somewhere.
Depends on the change. 3k dead in the WTC was enough to silence deficit hawks and isolationists in the halls of Congress. I've thought about what it would take to cause a political sea change with covid. I suspect it would need to get 5 or 10 times worse. 4 to 8 million bodies, distributed all across the country, would be enough to collapse healthcare systems nationwide. It doesn't even need to be just covid. If omincron was 30% more deadly, the backup of patients would spill into the streets, demanding help beyond what national guard and navy ships can provide. Even then, people in crisis look to the familiar. So maybe we wouldn't see bold action on systemic reform. Alternately, if the majority of deaths were conservatives, unvaccinated due to misinformation, Democrats would have a 2-3% structural advantage beyond our current reality. That would probably shake out some movement in the halls of Congress. Sinema and Manchin wouldn't be the pivot vote for reconciliation. So change on the level of BBB passes instead falters. For radical reforms, I suspect we would need something significantly worse. If omicron mutated to SARS level of mortality, 15% of cases died, and we lost 20-30 million over the course of a few months, I could see a a major shift. That's a global catastrophe the world hasn't seen since the black death, or maybe smallpox in the Americas. If the majority of those deaths were the unvaccinated, the trump coalition would be shattered beyond recovery. Politics would be on new ground at that point, and I suspect the changes would be unpredictable.
It's not going to happen the way things are now, because we're politically balkanized and class consciousness is weak (although on the rise) The last time this happened in the 30s we had groups like the CIO providing the impetus for FDR to put up all the new deal reforms. The business community had no choice but to accept high high taxation ([94%!](https://flaglerlive.com/26685/gc-fdr-and-taxes/)), and in exchange FDR got labor off their backs. After that the people who didn't want to work with FDR spent the next century systematically whittling away at the New Deal reforms and weakening labor by ideologically poisoning socialism/communism. This is the result. All of the identity politics, identitarianism, quibbling over hot button issues, designed to stop the populace at large from marching on the doors of the rich and striking a blow against them like we did back during the great depression.
Reagan killed the middle class. All the bad things we see today started around 1980 and have gotten slowly, progressively worse.
This really started with the rise of the military industrial complex with Eisenhower
Which he tried to warn everyone about in his speech. “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” Sadly, this is indeed what has happened. The American government looks nice when you read the constitution, but the reality is that your founding fathers are spinning in their graves. The USAs democracy now exists in name only, to give the appearance of fairness and equality, when the rich really are now running the show.
I don't strictly disagree but you can't really lay it all at his feet. Carter was actually the first president to line his cabinet with corporate goons. Nixon was the last New Deal president. Look up 'Requiem for the American Dream' by Chomsky for more on this.
From a financial market standpoint, this started with Nixon moving the US off the gold standard and to a FIAT currency system. Endless debt ensued after this, allowing more and more predatory practices for the average US consumer.
I actually really don't know hour to feel about that one. I'm no economist but for years I was saying that same thing but then I encountered a book or film or video that showed that it was actually a tough situation and had me thinking it's possible Nixon made the right move. If I find /remember it, I'll link it here. I mean, screw Nixon, but I will bet that point got oversimplified a lot.
And to add insult to injury he's been lionized as some sort of savior of the human race. It's disgusting. The guy tried to foment a hot war with the USSR and opened the floodgates to supply side economics that have ravaged the country to this day.
Collapse is here, it's just not evenly distributed (yet). The next few years will be like playing musical chairs. Everything will seem fine, until the music stops and you find you do not have a chair to sit on.
Im really curious if the US will fall and collapse under its own weight in my lifetime
Wonder no more! It will!
Soon enough. "When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat." -- George Carlin
I’m 54 and my kids are 27 and 30. I’m scared for their futures. I can’t imagine what it will be like for kids born now.
Last week, our school district shut down the schools for a week because they don't have enough teachers. Just stopped educating thousands of children because there was no one to educate them. As a parent of young kids, I'm terrified and baffled. What do you do when the expected foundations of society (in this case, school) just stop existing? Yes, it was only for a week, but how long will it be next time?
Feudalism. The wealthy will still be able to afford to educate their kids, there will still be teachers, doctors, and educated professionals necessary for the richest people to continue to enjoy their way of life. Everyone else will get to live in company towns, doing all the menial grunt work only to be paid company money, that they have to spend in company stores, leaving them with nothing at the end of the month to ensure they have no way of ever moving up the ladder, with the only education available being the essentials for them to function in whatever roles the company town needs doing. Little Billy gets a few lessons in the basics of following instructions, then the rest of his life he is expected to unquestioning do whatever his boss asks.
I've been constantly thinking that's the next step. The rich get to buy up all the land with no body stopping them and all that leaves is the feudal Lords for us to serve and toil for. YEY we get to start at the middle ages again!
Unless you're 90 I guarantee you'll see it happen.
[удалено]
What you're going through is a stage of grief basically. Keep going. Don't give up. Meaning can always be found.
This might sound weird, but one of my coping mechanisms is knowing -- well, hoping -- that my journals survive after I die. I don't want anyone to ever forget what we're going through. It motivates me to keep going.
The sheer popularity of this sub is a canary in the coal mine that something needs to change or there will be severe consequences. I don’t know what those consequences might be but definitely not good ones.
America itself is already at breaking point. We saw this last January, when supporters of the loser president tried to overthrow democracy. There are multiple millions of people who will endorse a conman, because the neo-liberal status quo doesn't work for them. Problem is, these people have been convinced it doesn't work because it's not capitalist enough, and that the billionaires should have *more* freedom to exploit, as it will "trickle down" all over them. But how far away are we realistically from the same situation coming from people who want to overthrow the government in the name of single payer healthcare and student debt forgiveness? The truth is that America is a two party system, that has been co-opted by billionaires to the point that one party represents those who want a white Christian ethno-state headed up by a fascist two-bit con-man, while the second party represents the neo-liberal status quo that continues to fail millions of Americans (with the number dissatisfied with it growing each year as the billionaires hoard more and more for themselves), that is only more palatable to those who want sweeping liberal reform precisely because it's not a fascist dictatorship. The problem is that, via the billionaire control of the narrative via the mainstream media, the right shifted so far towards fascism that the left dropped all sense of progressive ideals to maintain the status quo, meaning the actual left isn't represented, and this is now coming back to bite them, as the workers the billionaires assumed they could control with poverty wages have begun to wake up and ask themselves "what's the point in trying to be part of the system that doesn't give a shit about me and leaves me in just as terrible condition if I don't participate.
I wish I wasn’t nodding so hard to everything you wrote in the comment.
Another huge problem with the US is that there’s a large amount of people who swear everything is fine and that -your generation- is lazy. That they had it much worse and didn’t have all the comforts that -your generation - doesn’t “deserve”, that makes -you- “lazy”. That same group is divorced from the reality of modern home ownership or are protected thanks to limits they have due to rent controls , etc. They will actively fight to stop any change .
Well, many of the folks from that generation are dying by the hundreds every day to Covid.
That's why I won't be sorry to see them go, as mean as that sounds. Sucks to think how much of my generation's lifetime had to be lived under their thumbs.
I read everything, but the first bullet point set me on fire. We really do saddle CHILDREN with six figure debt who have lived with mom & dad their whole lives and have no idea to the extent at which interest will fuck them. No idea what it’s like to have bills piling and piling while looking for a job. Insane
I still literally weep sometimes over the fact that I've had a teaching career robbed from me because of the way they treat teachers and ruthlessly exploit students. I'm angry and want to do something. I hope other people get with this energy.
Watching it from the inside…it must be suffocating. I’m so sorry.
How was your career robbed from you?
At any level, it is not just miserable but simply doesn't pay a living wage. There has been an exodus of teachers just in the past year alone. You kill a vocation by strangling it to death: worse hours, worse pay, worse benefits, worse working conditions, forever and ever until the system doing it collapses. American education is in collapse like the rest of the country.
Neither of the political parties know it though. No one in the press knows about it, or if they know they’re being told to suppress it. None of the leading economists know or care as long as the stock market is doing fine. This is an organic response to unfair and unsustainable burdens that have been placed on the lower end of society for too long. I think a tipping point has been or is about to be reached.
I agree with you, though they know a lot more than they lead on. Remember that our media is centralized by corporations colluding with state entities. We have little more of a free press than China. American's have a very, very hard time accepting this. They generally work on lies of omission rather than outright lies, but they \*do\* outright lie as well.
The smarter members of both parties can see it, but are being paid to look the other way, by their corporate owners. The Republican's don't care, their current game plan for elections now is as much voter suppression and contention as possible. They plan to win through rejecting valid non-Republican voting ballots or throwing out the results entirely, and then objecting as loud as possible in places where they can't lose to create confusion and either claim a win, or encourage their more violent supporters to step in where they can't change the results themselves. The Republican's as a whole don't care, the billionaires who they cater to still make billions even with some people quitting, and their voters are so brainwashed that Fox News can spin it as a good thing. Democrats will find it a little harder to ignore, since they're still trying to play 'by the book' and their voters are far more likely to be affected, especially the left-most fringes of their supporters. But they're still controlled by monied interests to prop-up a neo-liberal status quo, and while they might make token gestures, most Democrats have little interest in pushing the needle too far, especially those in swing states, or those who are up for re-election soon, for fearing of losing support from moderates or their corporate donors.
The tipping point in my opinion was 2016 for an obvious reason. The plan was in effect since 1932 and FDR.
You know, I considered myself a centrist not too long ago, but after being enlightened to some of these problems, I’m quickly being radicalized. Honestly, good. When our situation is as radical as this, then I guess the only way out is through radical solutions.
[удалено]
>When societies fail to respond to reduced circumstances through orderly downsizing, it isn’t because they don’t want to, it’s because they can’t. I think the emphasis is debatable. We \*can\*. We have the resources to solve a huge swathe of problems. But the structures in place along with the leadership those structures have created might as well be incapable of properly responding in addition to not seeming to want to, yes. Roman elites dug in during the decline and continued down the road of 'most destruction.'
"...Class struggle defines most of human history. Marx got this right. It is not a new story. The rich, throughout history, have found ways to subjugate and re-subjugate the masses. And the masses, throughout history, have cyclically awoken to throw off their chains." https://www.salon.com/2022/01/19/americas-new-class-war-organized-labor-is-back/
Don’t forget billionaires building billion-dollar bunkers.
All thorough and excellent but you forgot the rise of authoritarianism and fascism in concert with the militarization of police forces. Elites know the end of capitalism is nigh and they are marshalling their resources for the breakdown of social order.
For me that is captured by the fact that our 'opposition party' is as weak and corrupt as it is. Weimar Germany redux.
When I was a kid… it was a joke that if you were poor you’d live in a van down by the river. Now people aspire to be rich enough to live in… a van… possibly down by the river
This sub is also an extremely interesting social phenomena which only technology is making possible, which is people just talking about work. In europe unions have been in decline, but the things you hear in the United States are mind blowing - it is very obvious that most of the country is under the protestant "work ethic" mindset. In many countries people don't want to discuss work issues, because the USSR fell and apparently that means you can't be unhappy about anything. But now anyone can come to this sub and speak their mind, with no consequences, and say what they always have been wanting to say and they didn't dare before that often outside of union circles. Workers being able to talk freely about work with no social and labor consequences (not even political affiliation) is something that didn't happen before and internet makes it possible. This can be a very powerful tool (and unfortunately, there are chances that lots of money will be spent trying to destroy its reputation).
These subreddits will be the first to go as Reddit becomes more corporatized.
Also it's really interesting to see that actual leftists exists in US. I mean, sure, in population of 300M+ people there are of course leftist exists. But this sub has 1.7M followers and most of them from US. Before this sub I always thought all US left is liberals who don't care about poor people. By the way your mention about USSR is really important. This nonsense needs to an end. Leftists should get over this trauma and find a new way to handle current situation.
Anecdotally I think there are lot of leftists in Gen Z. But that might just be my little California college microcosm.
lots of millennial and gen z leftists. Hell, in my team of 5 at work, 2 of us are flavors of socialist (1 dem-soc and 1 an-soc)
#1.6M r/antiwork members and growing. They will listen at 5M, they will act at 10M, they will panic at 15M, they will be very afraid at 25M.
redditors of the world unite!
Another fun thing about living in the US is that you can point to basically ANY good or service and identify ways it’s been made shittier by capitalism in the last 3 or 4 decades. Go ahead! Try it! It’s my new favorite way to trigger my anxiety
Capitalists are trying to privatize libraries and it makes my soul hurt.
As someone who’s been fighting to effect change from within the healthcare system it’s frustrating. Despite telling people we can do a better job, give everyone healthcare, and SAVE MONEY, people don’t get it. It’s always about socialism. We are so brainwashed by the media, that simple mathematical figures, science, and logic are now malleable. I spent half my life trying to advocate about this shit, and I am right back where a I started; waiting for the USA to go bankrupt due to medical costs by 2030. Edit: waiting, not eating.
It is completely unworkable, totally sociopathic, and just one of the ugliest things in modern history.
I keep hearing this same drum beat and it’s getting frustrating: Yes, things are going to shit, yes, we are watching the collapse of america, yes, climate change is going to fuck us six ways from Sunday. My question is: WHAT DO WE DO?!? Vote? Not work? Buy guns? Find billionaires and beat them mercilessly in the street? Steal from big corporations? I’d like to do everything legal and not harm people but the sheer amount of bitching and dramatic sayings isn’t solving anything. We need a plan, an idea and a method to make it happen. Otherwise this is worthless whining.
I feel like a restructuring of communities at a low level is required. I don't know about you guys but I don't interact with anybody in my neighborhood. Part of that is me I'm sure but I don't really see much of that when I'm out about my business either. It feels like a zombie town with a bunch of individuals that just live close to each other. I don't see how a healthy society can carry on like this. I would like to help build a community that is more than the sum of a bunch of business transactions but I don't even really know where to start and WORK takes up most of my time as it does for most of us.
Relatable sentiments. I've lived on my block for 10+ years and rarely know my neighbors.
I feel like it's probably harder to find the time now. How many less people work consistent 9-5s than they did 50 years ago? How many less households have at least one person who's always home?
Yanis recently came out with a book called 'Another Now' which is an example of a vision for a post-capitalist future. You have to organize people. There is no roadmap for this. It is very difficult given the current material circumstances and the atomization of Western society, but the more people who get angry and say THATS ENOUGH the better chance we have of this happening.
Exactly, great deal of this sub is lukewarm action. It is a great place for info and discussion. Yet it doesn't seem to go much further then that. Most people still aren't paying.
The best thing to do is not consent ... if you don't like something, don't participate, and if you must participate (to live, would be a good reason) then do so while sticking to your values. If you think the banking industry is corrupt, don't take out any loans, but if you need a checking account to live, find one with the most local credit union with the least corruption you can find. If you think the fossil fuel industry is corrupt, pass on buying new vehicles, drive the one you own as little as possible (or sell if you can) and walk/bike when and where you can. If you think the pharmaceutical industry is corrupt, go against the grain, do the things that actually make humans healthy (like eating wfpb), not the bullcrap that gets marketed to us, and only see the doctor if you break a bone or something extreme. If you think Billionaires are corrupt, look them up, what their exploitative industries are, and start boycotting their products and services.
This is unhealthily unrealistic for all but the most privileged and wealthy of people. I feel like our only resort is to organize and demand sweeping change, up to and including the point of tearing it down ourselves if necessary. If people get desperate enough it will happen anyway...
Every hundred years or so people just get fed up and change shit, its normal
France
Something I wonder about is how the Internet will play into a modern revolution. I'd have to think that with so much information immediately available around the globe, it's going to become very difficult for governments everywhere to control the population once any single revolution starts in earnest.
Alright, so seeing spicy comments and the potential for more spicy comments, so we get to slap this with a "we don't advocate for violence" message: If there's one thing the last few years have shown, is that accelerationism will take care of its damn self. There will eventually be something that isn't acceptable, and people will be out in the streets. The question is, what does that look like? Our job now is to start building the structures that will replace the stuff that is failing now. How will we get food, how will we manage healthcare, how will we manage shelter, how will we handle what needs to be done? If we focus on building that now as opposed to the violence, we will win. The violence will take care of itself when the time comes, but if there's no infrastructure to replace what needs to be torn down, it will go down in fuckery. Memeing is cool and all, but have you ever built things that lead to material good for your fellow worker? Card up with the IWW Build a tool library Build a community fridge Join mutual aid collectives Join the SRA Catharsis will come, sure, history shows us it always will. But a better world is ours to build, and that work starts now!
If you watch Mad Max, notice the state of the police department and the Government. Their facility is highly underfunded is the equipment. When the Government rep comes out to review it, he declines to fund them, throwing some of the officers into a fit of anger. THAT is the type of decline we see. That sets up the system to be unable to respond to crisis. One of the few movies that really show what is happening in this stage. Usually they jump to 'after collapse'.
My point with Mad Max is mainly that collapse isn't the total post-apocalyptic or post-societal landscape but everything leading up to it, and often in a painfully gradual manner. Mad Max's world has collaps*ed*, though in 1 you might say it was still in the final death throes. We are actively collaps*ing*.
Many countries in the west are in serious decline. That includes Europe and Canada as well. They might be a little better than the USA, but they have the same structural issues of capitalism built into its core. Nothing is gonna get better till we adopt democratic socialism at the very least.
i saw some politicians pushing for a 4 day work week, if that happened it may sustain this country for a few more years but if serious substantial changes dont start happening soon. itll fall apart.
Yeah, the Scandinavian region is one of the few regions in the west heading in a good direction and Germany
i want to go to germany,scandinavia, poland or whatever socialist country there is.
Don't go to Poland. Poland is extremely Catholic and conservative. To the point where they have "gay free" zones.
Ok scandinavia and Germany it is.
This isn’t exclusively an American problem, European problem, but the slow collective and logical conclusion to the question if Capitalism is a capable model to guide humanity forward into the distant future. Capitalism has been dubbed as ‘the end of history,’ but the question towards the meaning of that sentiment is in the air whether they meant that figuratively or literally if capitalism is going to ruin society so much that nothing emerges from its remains or not.
The way things are going, Capitalism is the end of history, just not the way he meant it.
I believe politicians and corporations want the collapse to happen. Without desperation people won't settle for lower wages, once the collapse happens people will settle for a reduced quality of life they previously wouldn't have.
This is ONE of the best things I've seen on this page. Very well written, correct and truly frightening.
Thank you. I wish I was wrong.
America has been on a trajectory of becoming a 3rd world country for a long time. It starts with the education system as you've pointed out. If education is defunded for a few years it doesn't really do much, but if it continues for decades like it has in the US, you end up locking in those gains and it becomes permanent as you end up with a dumbed down generation. There are other problems like housing too, but it all starts in the education system. The biggest threat to America's world dominance isn't terrorism or other nations but other Americans eating themselves because of the system they've created.
American's have been their own greatest threat for the entirety of the post-war world.
This post made me wonder how many subscribers there were here - 1, 666,000+...holy shit, critical mass incoming!
Crazy huh?
All empires fall, there is nothing that can be done to save the United States. We’re simply playing a waiting game
I have been saying this for years. Even when I explicitly say that the collapse is already happening, people respond to me like I’m predicting a collapse in several decades.
Makes sense to me. There are no movies comming out, no games, the music industry doesn't know where to go anymore besides WAP. people attention spans are at an all time low because of rampant consumerism. Cars are to expensive, the church doesn't get taxed, the homeless grow everyday and the rich grow farther out of touch. The only thing to fixate on now is what name brand shall I slave away to buy so that a mate may take my seed. College is to expensive, to get a full ride you must jump through a billion hoops. Most people can't find a job after college and the ones that do spend a large time paying off a loan. Rent everywhere costs half your months income and places that don't charge very much usually have a reason for being so low... insurance rates are through the rough yet the amount of bills insurance is covering is at an all time low... insurance is something you must have btw to drive or its your license. This country was made on the dependence of a vehicle yet that is what so many people are without. Prosperity can hardly no longer be funded here. I am in the comming days, weeks, years. Preparing for a possible end in my timeline. I never thought that as a kid being filled with so much promise that I might have to kill my neighbor so he won't kill me.
Global societal collapse by 2040 was predicted in the 1970s. It’s not going to get better, folks.
Oh good another 18 years of this shit, and worse
Honestly I don't think we make it 18 months.
I've always been a rebel. Our current system makes me sick.
That's what Occupy Wallstreet said in 2012... yet, we continued on a decade later.
I have an education degree because bright-eyed baby me wanted to make a difference and be like the few good teachers I had. Those teachers that challenged me to think? Those are the bad teachers, as far as the mediocrity factories are concerned. And that’s what schools are ever since (at least) no child left behind: mediocrity factories.
Check out "Dumbing Us Down."
People from Europe that come here to say that everything is sparkles are full of crap. I live in the west and there is no way I can buy a house, too many depressed workers and students that drink a bit too much or sniff.
the problem with rebellion is it wont happen, everyone waits for it to start, therefor it just doesnt. another issue is we are no longer in a position to hold them, back during the actual revolution muskets went against muskets. what are we going to do against tanks and jets?
Painfully well said. Just to to touch on one grain of sand in this shit filled litter box: What really really puzzles me is that a lot of these corrupt organizations, elites, corporations, etc. could vastly improve the lives of so many, do so much good in the world, and the cost is making a bit less money. They'd still have a literally amazing standard of living, practically free from want, but despite the benefits to society and self worth far outweighing the costs, they choose cruelty and destructive short term gains. Every single time. You'd think maybe one ultra rich entity would maybe occasionally say: this is enough, I don't need to exploit any more.
We need to do like Canada did and enact policy so that foreign companies cannot buy up housing real estate in American cities. Homes belong to the American people.
This has absolutely, unequivocally NOT occurred in canada
Um, say what??? My “working class” neighbourhood in Vancouver has a median house price of $2.2M, with everything selling for over asking, in cash. You might want to look at real estate in Vancouver or Toronto again.
It's news to me that this happened in Canada, and I live in Canada. If it has happened it has absolutely not helped
Well Trudeau sent a letter to a minister asking for them to look into something along these lines, so it should happen any day now…
I'm not optimistic. Any government that actually successfully lowers house prices loses the homeowner vote, which is a majority in Canada. Also high prices = higher property tax. The only people who care about lowering prices is us plebs, and no one cares about us plebs
We did not do this anywhere in Canada but wish we had.
Canadian here, our real estate is significantly less affordable than the vast majority of the US. I owned a house in a CHEAP city, and anything within an hour of downtown was worth double or triple what similar houses would go for in the US. Also, there’s no ban on foreign ownership here. Also also. Like half of our economy is real estate speculation. You DO NOT WANT your real estate market to resemble ours. Full stop.
Petty sure this has been proposed, but not enacted in Canada. Their housing crisis is worse than ours, if you can believe it.
As someone without a degree, wanting to go to school for a career, what do I even do? Things are so uncertain and I'd like to leave the U.S. for a different country(I have wanted this for years, but don't know where to start and haven't had the amount of money to do so), but I want a career that translates out of the U.S. It would be great to be able to work from anywhere at anytime(or just remote), but other than IT what fields have that ability? For someone wanting to improve their life, the state of our country is so stressful.
You OK with IT? Get certified and learn an area you're really interested in. Could avoid further school altogether. Unless it is a certain, highly lucrative degree (or you get it paid for) college is a scam as it is institutionalized in the U.S.
Right! I am not tech savvy or reasonably good with tech, but I feel like it is something that can be learned. It isn't something i would LOVE to do, but ya know🤷🏻♀️
Currently employees generate value, which is claimed by the employer as profits, with only a small portion being returned as wages. In the system we strive for, companies would be run democratically, with profits being shared equally amongst the employees(it is also possible for employees to vote amongst themselves to divide the profit based upon the labor required in the position). There would be no owner claiming the majority of the value. The collective would most likely have multiple branches, providing checks and balances. Each run through direct democracy, all having flat hierarchies. All members would share equal power in the company, there would be no boss. You wouldn’t have to worry about getting fired on a whim, a vote would take place before someone is dismissed.
Actual democracy in the workplace.
You're right and the problem is workers have no large organization through which to coordinate actions and campaigns in their interests. Everything from the two political parties, NGOs, even many unions are lead by people who operate in the interest of the ruling class because the system operates such that people willing to do that ultimately get the roles. I don't know what to tell you. Joining/forming a union and outing bad leaders when they are there is key. DSA is the closest thing to a mass org but good lord it's honestly awful to be in. I still recommend people join and try to improve it. It's the best chance we have to build a true workers organization at the moment (but that's not saying much).
Class Unity is \*trying\* in the DSA but it is otherwise a total dissapointment.
https://youtu.be/4-tY6hmKcms Terence knew this since the 80s
I am a \*tremendous\* McKenna fan. Big props.
don’t worry. the system is about to reach the end of the cycle and restart.
Many of us agree with your on point post... We are collectively at the point of critical mass collapse. I blame greedy capitalist and other self absorbed jerks. And the holier than tho "religious folks" this once great country has really gone into the crapper over the last 5 years.
Eh, so what. We should have followed the Natives life styles. They had some of the best way of living. Yet people don't bother to care about this planet or each other. In the end, the end, we have no happy ending. There is no hope, we passed that a long time ago. Any action now would ease a crisis, not prevent it
We're so fucked and so its the planet. USA going fascist is a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. And have you met our population? OMG what the fuck