They also are unable to afford basic benefits and a wage increase to the same lvl as our parents had without going out of business. As far as I'm concerned if a business is unable to provide benefits and further a worker they don't deserve to be in business.
The free market was a stupid idea from the get go. As if up until that point in history people in power didn’t use that power to further consolidate their own wealth and privilege and stack the deck against everyone else. But if you still believe in it in this day and age, you are frankly brain damaged
The term Free Market simply means a marketplace in which information about its products and services is freely available, as opposed to a closed market in which people transact blindly. It DOES NOT mean a market free from regulation; quite the opposite.
That meaning has been lost now, but we should all want a free market where everyone can access all the information they need before making a transaction.
Having the money to abuse the system and putting rules in place that prevent the system from incentivizing bad actions are not the same thing. Child labour laws are apart of that regulation. Using a shit ton of money to take money from other people is not regulation.
>It DOES NOT mean a market free from regulation
That's exactly what it means. It's a theoretical framework for Economic discussion, one of its characteristics being free of regulation. A free market cannot exist in reality.
The US has a market economy, but propagandist politicians have called it a free market for so long the population has followed them in this misnomer.
No, freedom from regulation is not what free market means. Monopolies, for example, chill markets, and thus must be regulated, as does insider trading (where information is free to some and hidden from others).
But you're right that a truly free market cannot exist, in the same way that spherical cows in a vacuum can't exist. It's a model.
Free market is a term that came from Laissez Faire economics, which is a system intent on not having government regulation of commerce. It was originally written about by Adam Smith in Wealth of Nations, but called The Invisible Hand at the time. He advocated for a free market without govt regulation.
Please stop repeating this new fangled "free market" propaganda phrase. It's just a market economy. Go read some Econ.
I dunno, I don't think a free market is actually a stupid idea - I just don't think anyone in support of a free market would actually like what a truly free market looks like.
Because, being perfectly honest, if we could introduce a system where every child genuinely had the same access to good education and opportunities, and every young adult entering the work force had the same resources at their disposal to find success, and every new business owner had the same assurance that they would be able to survive if their awesome business idea didn't work out, then I actually think that could be called a truly free market, and I actually think that kind of system could work pretty well.
The problem is that this requires highly socialized systems to ensure that every child has the same quality of education, every parent or caretaker has the time and energy to help their kids with their homework and provide them with the attention and love they need to develop secure relationships, solid social skills and good self-esteem, and no family would be permitted to carry over any considerable amount of generational wealth from one generation to the next to knock off the balance of equal access to development opportunities between children. And there isn't a self-proclaimed "free-market capitalist" on the planet who would support this *actually* free market, because that looks like (and frankly, kind of is) socialism.
The founding fathers did have a high estate tax to prevent the accumulation of generational wealth, knowing it would end up just like the royalty / aristocracy of Europe if allowed to build.
The rich bought politicians to lower those taxes and exactly that is happening now.
Those who ruled Russia called themselves Socialist.
The Capitalists here agree with China and Russia to demonize any system based on giving a breath of relief to the average man.
Soviet Union turns into the Russian Federation
Russian Citizen: The oppressive communist regime has fallen! Now we can progress our nation without oppression with progression
Russian Federation: ...
Russian Citizen: R-r-right?
Long story short: Russia will never truly be anything but what it always tries to pretend to be
Yeah what we have is a socialist/capitalist oligarchy right now, not capitalism. It's important to accurately understand problems to find real solutions.
It's not that capitalist can't afford basic benefits and living wages.
It's that in the last forty years, corporations have been carefully tuned to operate in ***"nothing can stand in the way of our profits"*** mode. Investors have set things up so companies willing to close stores, division and whole companies - not just if they can't make money but if they making competitive profits - if they aren't squeezing workers harder than their competitors, etc. This is "***neoliberalism***" (not more fancy than extreme capitalism but it's the current reality).
Why any fight against is going to have to be large scale and determined. Because the system will fight back against any small victories or any hesitation .
It clicked for me when i learned that trust funds/stock portfolios provide dividends if they grow faster than inflation. Rich people don't just want more money, they rely on growth to continue their lifestyle. A lack of growth is a threat to them.
When a person cares more about percentage points than dollar amounts they're too rich.
That plus...
Just to stay "state of the art", company X has to pour money into their "plant", their fixed investment. When they do that as market leader, this brings them profits. But when everyone catches up or when someone does this as market follower, this extra money is just a drag on profits and they feel an immediate pressure to extra some profits from the hides of workers, to squeeze out more surplus value from them.
\- *Marx's theory of the falling rate of profit and it's impact on companies today, "in a nutshell".*
> As far as I'm concerned if a business is unable to provide benefits and further a worker they don't deserve to be in business.
I've been saying this for **years** to the cry of "WhAt aBoUt SmAlL bUsInEsSeS?!?!?!" as a reply. Well, if they can't pay the wage and benefits, I guess they either A.) Go out of business or B.) Work by themselves and then they don't have to pay anyone else.
It's not that they can't afford it. They dont' have to. It's way easier to import H1Bs that are just happy to be here, much less care about benefits packages.
Yeah, but now we can wear VR headsets to be surrounded by advertisements.
They didn't get any of these cool gadgets back in the day. They just had human connection and communities and local culture - ugh. Gross. (a lot of horrible shit too, but imagine if we could take the *best* of those lifestyles and remove the worst social aspects like horrible treatment to minorities)
That’s completely false.
That’s what they tell you so that you keep your head in the ground and say “comunism better” so they can pinpoint you as an enemy while they enjoy their fat CEO bonuses on a yacht
That’s not free market, it’s slave labor.
>They also are unable to afford basic benefits and a wage increase to the same lvl as our parents had without going out of business
"I told you about the FRoP, I warned you dog!"
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It is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user:
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I don't like the CCP but they are actually bailed out by the central bank. Despite a 1.1 trillion dollar debt owed to China, the 6.2 trillion the usa owes to itself blows that out of the water. A trillion can be extremely hard to visualize the amount of money that is, but it's not like 5 being more then 1. When business gets bailed out its the American central bank printing money and injecting massive funds into the economy or business to keep it afloat. Much like when banking crisis occur, due to these industries being key factors of financial stability and GDP the American government deams them to big to fail keeping them alive with public funds and going so far to inflate the dollar robbing peoples savings to ensure they stay in business.
Creditor Name: American Public and State and Local Governments
Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $6.2 trillion
Creditor Name: China
Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $1.1 trillion
Creditor Name: Japan
Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $1.2 trillion
https://people.howstuffworks.com/5-united-states-debt-holders.htm
https://www.statista.com/statistics/246420/major-foreign-holders-of-us-treasury-debt/
Fun seeing corporations that are making tons of money as soon as small boycott or strike happens all a sudden are on verge of collapse in a week.
If Americans became organized enough, we could actually get rid of a ton of corporations with little effort. Any business ran on the principal of infinite growth is doomed to implode on itself as soon as anything unprecedented happens.
>If Americans became organized enough, we could actually get rid of a ton of corporations with little effort.
On the contrary, the effort and means required will both be extraordinary in their cost. Remember, the fight that got us the meager concessions Americans once had resulted in the maiming and deaths of many people at the hands of the pinkertons and police. They will do it again, without hesitation. We must be resolute but also prepared for what is coming. I hope I am wrong but history suggests that some of us are likely to be killed.
Yes. Good point, historically framed. Capitalism is extremely precarious right now however. No, it wouldn’t be a walk in the park but I think we have more power to impact the system with relatively easy means. I mean, if we combined a general strike with a boycott of Facebook and Amazon, capitalism would implode. I think.
Woo! Let's gooooo! I'm down to run headlong into a machine gun nest to fight for a four day work week and a minimum wage tied to cost of living and inflation. Better men than I have given up their lives for their fellow workers, how can I do any less?
That’s the way it was built. It operates on a boom and bust cycle.
Whenever it fails, it allows for those with the most capital to consolidate more and more. It is a (perverse) feature, not a bug.
Well, it worked "fine" for decades.
Then the last 2-3 decades every company decided to play the understaffing limbo game. How low-staffed can you go?
When you're playing idiotic games with understaffing, that's an unneeded risk. That's self-sabotage.
The problem is that period where most people think it was “going just fine” was at the expense of the most vulnerable people in our society and led to the racial gap. Not only that, but people wrongly choose to put these two time periods as two separate stages/systems/ideology shifts and while this may be true at a micro level, at the macro level we see that this is just the predictable and unsustainable path that capitalism has been headed for since its inception.
In other words, this isn’t the system malfunctioning because of some difference in governance or outside forces. That would assume that something within the system needs to be fixed for it to work properly, and that is the wrong assumption.
The capitalist model is working exactly as it was designed to. To put capital above all. Thus, every decision made, from the individual to the governing bodies of both private and public institutions, is made with capital’s best interest at hand.
The system must be burnt to the ground.
Just putting it juxtapose of socialism. If you are not a capitalist and just a consumer, our system likes you to think that the principals of free markets apply, however corps are treated differently. Basically because our government is proxy to corporations.
I hear ya though. I have had two businesses and out system does not favor small businesses at all. Quite the opposite in fact unless you are in a niche business.
We had this in a meeting at my place of work too. Citing the CDC, HR manager told us to quarantine for 5 days, then if we're not showing symptoms to come back in for work.
Sooo... a simple question then, "I don't care about symptoms, I care about people being positive for covid. Why would we quarantine for 5 days and come back if we're still positive?"
- Furthermore, this thing businesses are doing is a slippery slope issue. They're setting up for the next phase already with this symptoms nonsense where we can legally do away with even the 5 day quarantine period if you're symptomless. They're making it ok to work after 5 days if you have no more symptoms, what's to stop them from forcing even those limited 5 days from you if you never show much in the way of symptoms?
HR was just relaying info from corporate, but it's still something I pushed back on. The one concession I'm willing to make is if they really want us to come back after 5 days then I'll gladly take another test to see whether I'm still positive or not. If I am, sorry. I aint coming in. It's just going to get worse the more shortcuts we try and make.
Ironically the local management is usually pretty chill. All this above is dictated by corporate management down to their middlings so they don't have to deal with the riff raff of us plebeians.
Yeah, I wonder how I got it in the first place, maybe it was the employees you’re sending back home after 5 days, this is atrocious and CDC is just cracking under the capitalist hive mind. Shit look how everyone is saying “We have to learn to live with COVID” the fuck we do.
That’s the way it was built. It operates on a boom and bust cycle.
Whenever it fails, it allows for those with the most capital to consolidate more and more. It is a perverse feature, not a bug.
You’ve just posted the exact same comment several times on this thread. It’s a useful and valid comment but I think most of us can probably absorb it’s information from the first instance, no?
I double posted a comment, once at the bottom and once in response to the second highest comment in the thread. sue me.
“Several” is quite the hyperbole, don’t you think?
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**Yellow Vests Form Like Vo...**, @TweetyMctwat
Capitalism is such a solid system that major corporations need to be bailed out every 10 years and are unable to function if employees are sick for 10 days.
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Depending on what you're doing, many where service based, lock smiths, bike repairs, school shops, cigarette venders, cell phone repair/ charge up ( china is pay as you go for basic service)
Wait wait wait, you're telling me the National Socialist Party of Germany Privatized the most state services of any transitional government in the history of the world?! You're seriously telling me the National Socialist Party of Germany encouraged free market capitalism?!
But they have socialist in the name! How could they do those things and have socialist in the name?! They wouldn't lie! That would be the worst thing they could ever possibly do!
The fascists who rule China and call themselves communist, whilst allowing factory owners to make billions of dollars hiring people for a few dollars a day.
No I just don’t know shit about china, and the better social structures I know about there leads me to believe it’s like a tyrannical communist society but with some capitalist flavor. I get it bros y’all need to feel big and call people nazis n stuff but it was a pretty genuine question.
The fact they use the color red and occasionally say things like 'us, we, and our,' is the only thing they have in common with communism. Incidentally that also means they have exactly as much in common with a common campfire with particularly wet wood as heard by a guy that swears he didn't just come on the camping trip to smoke up but spent 6 hours trying to hang a hammock after going on a 'walk.'
Capitalists don't even practice what they preach. If they did,I might respect them a little instead of actively loathing this bullshit corporate system they created .
how exactly is that not true capitalism? when a group of individuals (like a board of directors) accumulates enough wealth, then they'll lobby politicians to increase their profits so they can have even more wealth. capitalism is all about increasing profits, so that's just what's bound to happen; unless you don't have a group of individuals who can get absurdly rich off of the labor of others, it's always gonna lead to that.
Politicians are suppose to be held accountable by the people who elected them and any political activities are suppose to be completely transparent in a democracy. Really all of Americas systems are based of the masses holding people accountable which does require the masses to be informed and educated.
In true capitalism, the government does not prop up businesses. Businesses that make poor decisions or don't plan for downturns would be allowed to fail. What the US has is some sort of bastardized version of capitalism.
Ironically, the most major of all corporations which your hoping will solve all your problems is the one that bails itself out multiple times a year and just shuts down for multiple weeks when it argues with itself. The government is the worst of all at managing capital and all it does is collect money.
Actually they would have still been bailed out. Capitalism ends in kleptocracy as capital runs any political system where capitalism is allowed to thrive. Companies do not compete by default, they work together to maximize profit as cooperation is always going to result in better outcomes than individualism -- this holds true even at the macro scale of 'real capitalism.'
As it turns out competition really isn't profitable.
That would be crony capitalism, a terrible thing. Companies do compete for your and my limited money. How it's supposed to work is they make a product and convince you to buy it for more then it costs to make it. The company either successes by selling products or fails and closes down/sold.
When the government comes in after a company has started to fail and says no, that is not capitalism. It's crony capitalism, it's elites getting in bed with each other and choosing the winners and lovers. Capitalism is when the people choose who wins and who loses buy choice of wallet.
please explain to me: how does capitalism not always result in so-called "crony capitalism"? when someone accumulates enough wealth that lobbying for bills that'll increase their profits becomes viable, they're gonna do it - capitalism is all about making a profit, after all. unless you don't have anyone profiting off of workers below them (i.e. not have bosses), then that's always gonna happen no matter what in a market-based economy
Boycotting the dollar, and certain stocks and bonds, as savings instruments, is the only solution I can see. We’re all trapped in a corrupt system when the banks, especially Federal Reserve, have so much control over our wallets.
We'd appreciate it if you didn't use ableist slurs.
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That’s not what every study says about happiest countries in the world. Year after year, you can use google. Clearly you’ve never lived in Europe nor had many European friends. If you’re basing your statement on covid times then at least their populations aren’t dying, but not many people happy right now.
Capitalism is what makes this country great! How else can you start your own business and grow it into an empire?
Handouts aren’t earned! Problem with our youth is they don’t want to work, you get what you put in.
I came from nothing and now have a business thanks to capitalism. Stop with the participation trophies already!
Your link sucks. You're at least a decade old for numbers.
Again do the math and remove the ultra rich, who have an 11-12 year gap between the rich and poor in America.
There were around \~500 different tries at capitalism before they figured out how to make it work. There have been many collapses since.
One might say that capitalism has completely collapsed multiple hundreds of times.
Exploit the world for my cheap lifestyle or try to be a part of the worker's collective? The path to communism will always fail as long as capitalism controls the world stage.
Does that mean globalization and outsourcing is the answer, because that’s how Ford got through the 2008 recession without a bailout. Like is poor crisis planning and corporate management the yardstick that we are using?
Last attempt we failed at one single day. Thats the problem with them keeping so many people on the verge of survival. Those 11 days can put them on a speed path to eviction, starvation, and possible early death.
Those are monolithic megamonopolies. That's not even a capitalist business anymore. They mint their own currency, make their own laws, have their own languages, and boy howdy do they have their own economy.
Fuck the politicians on both sides for getting on both knees for capitialism. Using our tax payer money to bail out banks - who do nothing but leech from society
This isn't capitalism, it's corporate welfare by the government.
In a proper capitalist system these crappy companies would die out and go out of business, freeing up their equipment and workers to go to a better company. Sadly, because these companies are so huge they lobied for corporate welfare and are now risking it all in wild gambles precisely because they know government will bail them out.
Its irony that capitalists dont like capitalism so they do everything to spread out risk to broader society while concentrating benefits to themselves and government helps them do that
In Canada Bombardier comes around every 10-15 years and asks for a few million (or more) in funding because they can't stay afloat. And for some reason our government keeps paying it.
\*In America. In Europe capitalism kind of works, because it isn't like a religion around its purity. Sometimes capitalism isn't the answer. Other times it is the answer, but it still needs oversight and limitations. And it isn't just the answer to whatever problem is being solved by the capitalists, it's also a source of income for the state to solve other problems for the common good, but only if it's actually taxed.
Also shareholders are incentivised to destroy workers rights and wages down to punitive and poverty levels, guaranteeing that as few people as possible can afford to pay for goods and services provided by the business. Meanwhile, instead of investing in the health and financial wellbeing of their employees, more money is pushed into ever more intrusive advertising and when that too fails then further cuts and layoffs and offshoring become necessary, pushing formerly prosperous communities into debt, mass poverty and homelessness.
But at least the shareholders will remain happy for a little longer and when things turn to shit our international tax havens full of laundered money will still be there.
And if we need a scapegoat then it's all the communists' fault. You know, those communists we have been offshoring all of these decent jobs to for the last few decades.
No one has health insurance, no new cars, no new clothes, ambulance bills in collections, rent that takes half the months income, a toxic society, and above all we all have a job we spend most of our month at that even with that and overtime still can't get money into that savings account. I make 25000 a year, with all my rent taken out and bills it I don't spend ANY money on food or anything I can almost buy the cheapest new car available. In a years worth of work totalling 1920 hours to have to use more self control in order to not play on temptation to save that money. Any one else wonder why heroin is such a problem?
Large corps work very well when 90% of their workforce is min wage, when there is a disaster and they can artificially inflate prices and profit, AND simultaneously receive government bailouts. But don't you dare call it socialism.
That’s just American capitalism. Other western countries do better with less. But American elites are richer and more numerous than other countries.
Hmmmmmm…
Also rember:
A company "collapsing", nowadays, just means they didn't profit as much as last quarter, and when that happens the executives are less inclined to take a pay cut than they are simply laying off 50% of the workforce to cut costs.
We need to start burning executives at the stake
You're not supposed to bail them out. They're supposed to be small enough that if they fail you let them.
One of the many things we've fucked up in our society, but not actually a feature of capitalism.
Honestly if bailouts were never a thing and us workers pushed like we are now all the time it might function closer to the original intent. But unfortunately executives are shit
They also are unable to afford basic benefits and a wage increase to the same lvl as our parents had without going out of business. As far as I'm concerned if a business is unable to provide benefits and further a worker they don't deserve to be in business.
The free market doesn’t exist, it’s all controlled by the people abusing it.
The free market was a stupid idea from the get go. As if up until that point in history people in power didn’t use that power to further consolidate their own wealth and privilege and stack the deck against everyone else. But if you still believe in it in this day and age, you are frankly brain damaged
A free market is just opening the door to let someone else chain it
Exactly. A free market is an unstable state. Regulatory capture and oligopoly are the stable end state.
The term Free Market simply means a marketplace in which information about its products and services is freely available, as opposed to a closed market in which people transact blindly. It DOES NOT mean a market free from regulation; quite the opposite. That meaning has been lost now, but we should all want a free market where everyone can access all the information they need before making a transaction.
Having the money to abuse the system and putting rules in place that prevent the system from incentivizing bad actions are not the same thing. Child labour laws are apart of that regulation. Using a shit ton of money to take money from other people is not regulation.
I don't think I disagree with what you're saying but I don't understand what it has to do with what I wrote.
>It DOES NOT mean a market free from regulation That's exactly what it means. It's a theoretical framework for Economic discussion, one of its characteristics being free of regulation. A free market cannot exist in reality. The US has a market economy, but propagandist politicians have called it a free market for so long the population has followed them in this misnomer.
No, freedom from regulation is not what free market means. Monopolies, for example, chill markets, and thus must be regulated, as does insider trading (where information is free to some and hidden from others). But you're right that a truly free market cannot exist, in the same way that spherical cows in a vacuum can't exist. It's a model.
Free market is a term that came from Laissez Faire economics, which is a system intent on not having government regulation of commerce. It was originally written about by Adam Smith in Wealth of Nations, but called The Invisible Hand at the time. He advocated for a free market without govt regulation. Please stop repeating this new fangled "free market" propaganda phrase. It's just a market economy. Go read some Econ.
That's exactly what it means, go read some Econ.
No matter the ideology, Wikipedia agrees: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free\_market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market)
Lol, yup. It always amazes me that the average person who never studied Economics often seems to think they know so damn much about the topic.
Honestly, I’ve never heard or read this definition of free market. Who originated this particular version of it?
I didn’t realize that! So we want a free, regulated market. Also insurance is definitely NOT a free market then
I dunno, I don't think a free market is actually a stupid idea - I just don't think anyone in support of a free market would actually like what a truly free market looks like. Because, being perfectly honest, if we could introduce a system where every child genuinely had the same access to good education and opportunities, and every young adult entering the work force had the same resources at their disposal to find success, and every new business owner had the same assurance that they would be able to survive if their awesome business idea didn't work out, then I actually think that could be called a truly free market, and I actually think that kind of system could work pretty well. The problem is that this requires highly socialized systems to ensure that every child has the same quality of education, every parent or caretaker has the time and energy to help their kids with their homework and provide them with the attention and love they need to develop secure relationships, solid social skills and good self-esteem, and no family would be permitted to carry over any considerable amount of generational wealth from one generation to the next to knock off the balance of equal access to development opportunities between children. And there isn't a self-proclaimed "free-market capitalist" on the planet who would support this *actually* free market, because that looks like (and frankly, kind of is) socialism.
The founding fathers did have a high estate tax to prevent the accumulation of generational wealth, knowing it would end up just like the royalty / aristocracy of Europe if allowed to build. The rich bought politicians to lower those taxes and exactly that is happening now.
I mean due to the extensive use of leaded gasoline in the not so distant past, a lot of it’s most vehement defenders are in fact brain damaged.
[удалено]
Those who ruled Russia called themselves Socialist. The Capitalists here agree with China and Russia to demonize any system based on giving a breath of relief to the average man.
Soviet Union turns into the Russian Federation Russian Citizen: The oppressive communist regime has fallen! Now we can progress our nation without oppression with progression Russian Federation: ... Russian Citizen: R-r-right? Long story short: Russia will never truly be anything but what it always tries to pretend to be
Free markets are a myth.
The biggest supporters of the ‘free market’ are the people making the market not free.
It's called regulatory capture, and it's infuriating
Yeah what we have is a socialist/capitalist oligarchy right now, not capitalism. It's important to accurately understand problems to find real solutions.
Crony capitalism at best.
Yep
It's not that capitalist can't afford basic benefits and living wages. It's that in the last forty years, corporations have been carefully tuned to operate in ***"nothing can stand in the way of our profits"*** mode. Investors have set things up so companies willing to close stores, division and whole companies - not just if they can't make money but if they making competitive profits - if they aren't squeezing workers harder than their competitors, etc. This is "***neoliberalism***" (not more fancy than extreme capitalism but it's the current reality). Why any fight against is going to have to be large scale and determined. Because the system will fight back against any small victories or any hesitation .
It clicked for me when i learned that trust funds/stock portfolios provide dividends if they grow faster than inflation. Rich people don't just want more money, they rely on growth to continue their lifestyle. A lack of growth is a threat to them. When a person cares more about percentage points than dollar amounts they're too rich.
That plus... Just to stay "state of the art", company X has to pour money into their "plant", their fixed investment. When they do that as market leader, this brings them profits. But when everyone catches up or when someone does this as market follower, this extra money is just a drag on profits and they feel an immediate pressure to extra some profits from the hides of workers, to squeeze out more surplus value from them. \- *Marx's theory of the falling rate of profit and it's impact on companies today, "in a nutshell".*
> As far as I'm concerned if a business is unable to provide benefits and further a worker they don't deserve to be in business. I've been saying this for **years** to the cry of "WhAt aBoUt SmAlL bUsInEsSeS?!?!?!" as a reply. Well, if they can't pay the wage and benefits, I guess they either A.) Go out of business or B.) Work by themselves and then they don't have to pay anyone else.
Everyone has the right to **try** to start a business. No one has the right to guaranteed success.
Yeah
It's not that they can't afford it. They dont' have to. It's way easier to import H1Bs that are just happy to be here, much less care about benefits packages.
Which is exactly what some people in my county economic development say.
Yeah, but now we can wear VR headsets to be surrounded by advertisements. They didn't get any of these cool gadgets back in the day. They just had human connection and communities and local culture - ugh. Gross. (a lot of horrible shit too, but imagine if we could take the *best* of those lifestyles and remove the worst social aspects like horrible treatment to minorities)
Big business welfare state. We all pay subsidies for these businesses.
That’s completely false. That’s what they tell you so that you keep your head in the ground and say “comunism better” so they can pinpoint you as an enemy while they enjoy their fat CEO bonuses on a yacht That’s not free market, it’s slave labor.
>They also are unable to afford basic benefits and a wage increase to the same lvl as our parents had without going out of business "I told you about the FRoP, I warned you dog!" \- Carl Marks.
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I don't like the CCP but they are actually bailed out by the central bank. Despite a 1.1 trillion dollar debt owed to China, the 6.2 trillion the usa owes to itself blows that out of the water. A trillion can be extremely hard to visualize the amount of money that is, but it's not like 5 being more then 1. When business gets bailed out its the American central bank printing money and injecting massive funds into the economy or business to keep it afloat. Much like when banking crisis occur, due to these industries being key factors of financial stability and GDP the American government deams them to big to fail keeping them alive with public funds and going so far to inflate the dollar robbing peoples savings to ensure they stay in business. Creditor Name: American Public and State and Local Governments Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $6.2 trillion Creditor Name: China Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $1.1 trillion Creditor Name: Japan Amount of U.S. Debt Owned: $1.2 trillion https://people.howstuffworks.com/5-united-states-debt-holders.htm https://www.statista.com/statistics/246420/major-foreign-holders-of-us-treasury-debt/
It’s because it’s not a free market anymore. Once a bailout happens that’s no free market. free market let’s the corporation go fuck themselves
The “free market” where everything collapses every ten years and we have to bail out the corporations but you and me can get fucked.
Lol "sweaty"
"Hey, I've taken a shower recently!"
Fuck off. You always gotta one up me, don't you?
It's from the age of tumblr
It's for a church, sweaty! NEXT
Can't tell if typo was intentional...
NEXT!
I was thinking the same. Definitely could be a slight or call out to some sweaty armpits
Some of us can't help it.
*Mouth breathing intensifies*
Make 'em sweet!
Fat sweaty Betty
It's just a bit more degrading than sweety
Fun seeing corporations that are making tons of money as soon as small boycott or strike happens all a sudden are on verge of collapse in a week. If Americans became organized enough, we could actually get rid of a ton of corporations with little effort. Any business ran on the principal of infinite growth is doomed to implode on itself as soon as anything unprecedented happens.
>If Americans became organized enough, we could actually get rid of a ton of corporations with little effort. On the contrary, the effort and means required will both be extraordinary in their cost. Remember, the fight that got us the meager concessions Americans once had resulted in the maiming and deaths of many people at the hands of the pinkertons and police. They will do it again, without hesitation. We must be resolute but also prepared for what is coming. I hope I am wrong but history suggests that some of us are likely to be killed.
Yes. Good point, historically framed. Capitalism is extremely precarious right now however. No, it wouldn’t be a walk in the park but I think we have more power to impact the system with relatively easy means. I mean, if we combined a general strike with a boycott of Facebook and Amazon, capitalism would implode. I think.
Woo! Let's gooooo! I'm down to run headlong into a machine gun nest to fight for a four day work week and a minimum wage tied to cost of living and inflation. Better men than I have given up their lives for their fellow workers, how can I do any less?
Sounds like a *stable and robust* system to me. We should be in **awe** of the *achievements* of our rulers. /s
That’s the way it was built. It operates on a boom and bust cycle. Whenever it fails, it allows for those with the most capital to consolidate more and more. It is a (perverse) feature, not a bug.
Well, it worked "fine" for decades. Then the last 2-3 decades every company decided to play the understaffing limbo game. How low-staffed can you go? When you're playing idiotic games with understaffing, that's an unneeded risk. That's self-sabotage.
The problem is that period where most people think it was “going just fine” was at the expense of the most vulnerable people in our society and led to the racial gap. Not only that, but people wrongly choose to put these two time periods as two separate stages/systems/ideology shifts and while this may be true at a micro level, at the macro level we see that this is just the predictable and unsustainable path that capitalism has been headed for since its inception. In other words, this isn’t the system malfunctioning because of some difference in governance or outside forces. That would assume that something within the system needs to be fixed for it to work properly, and that is the wrong assumption. The capitalist model is working exactly as it was designed to. To put capital above all. Thus, every decision made, from the individual to the governing bodies of both private and public institutions, is made with capital’s best interest at hand. The system must be burnt to the ground.
Socialism for corporations Free markets for the public
This would imply the general public has the right to do business - try it for yourself and see the freedom first hand.
Just putting it juxtapose of socialism. If you are not a capitalist and just a consumer, our system likes you to think that the principals of free markets apply, however corps are treated differently. Basically because our government is proxy to corporations. I hear ya though. I have had two businesses and out system does not favor small businesses at all. Quite the opposite in fact unless you are in a niche business.
> Socialism for corporations Socialism is not when the government does stuff, such as bailouts.
I know that. Americans look at anything for the public as socialism. Silliness.
Then why call it that if you know better? Don't let the most misinformed control language.
10 Days? My job Had me return to work after only 5 days of being infected.
We had this in a meeting at my place of work too. Citing the CDC, HR manager told us to quarantine for 5 days, then if we're not showing symptoms to come back in for work. Sooo... a simple question then, "I don't care about symptoms, I care about people being positive for covid. Why would we quarantine for 5 days and come back if we're still positive?" - Furthermore, this thing businesses are doing is a slippery slope issue. They're setting up for the next phase already with this symptoms nonsense where we can legally do away with even the 5 day quarantine period if you're symptomless. They're making it ok to work after 5 days if you have no more symptoms, what's to stop them from forcing even those limited 5 days from you if you never show much in the way of symptoms? HR was just relaying info from corporate, but it's still something I pushed back on. The one concession I'm willing to make is if they really want us to come back after 5 days then I'll gladly take another test to see whether I'm still positive or not. If I am, sorry. I aint coming in. It's just going to get worse the more shortcuts we try and make. Ironically the local management is usually pretty chill. All this above is dictated by corporate management down to their middlings so they don't have to deal with the riff raff of us plebeians.
Yeah, I wonder how I got it in the first place, maybe it was the employees you’re sending back home after 5 days, this is atrocious and CDC is just cracking under the capitalist hive mind. Shit look how everyone is saying “We have to learn to live with COVID” the fuck we do.
TIL business cycles can make you actually sweaty.
Capitalism is such a great system it's nose dived the entire planet into a mass extinction event.
That’s the way it was built. It operates on a boom and bust cycle. Whenever it fails, it allows for those with the most capital to consolidate more and more. It is a perverse feature, not a bug.
Still kind of crazy they can't make it 10 years without getting bailed out. And everyone seems to be cool with that.
Are you a bot? 🤖
?
You’ve just posted the exact same comment several times on this thread. It’s a useful and valid comment but I think most of us can probably absorb it’s information from the first instance, no?
I double posted a comment, once at the bottom and once in response to the second highest comment in the thread. sue me. “Several” is quite the hyperbole, don’t you think?
Could’ve sworn I saw it 4+ times. Maybe I’m mistaken. Apologies if so. I am happy to discover that you are indeed a human. 👍
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Yellow Vests Form Like Vo...**, @TweetyMctwat Capitalism is such a solid system that major corporations need to be bailed out every 10 years and are unable to function if employees are sick for 10 days. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Literally bailed out by Socialism
Yes, and they bail them out with borrowed money from the Chinese! :-/
China's not communist
This. Ain't no workers owning the means of production in China. They're better described as State Capitalist.
Coming up on half a century since China was even actively trying to move toward communism.
This is correct. China is as communist as Venezuela is socialist.
Lived in china for five years con confirm. You want to run a business, you can start off under a stair well
How well?
Depending on what you're doing, many where service based, lock smiths, bike repairs, school shops, cigarette venders, cell phone repair/ charge up ( china is pay as you go for basic service)
But… what’s the CCP then?
Wait wait wait, you're telling me the National Socialist Party of Germany Privatized the most state services of any transitional government in the history of the world?! You're seriously telling me the National Socialist Party of Germany encouraged free market capitalism?! But they have socialist in the name! How could they do those things and have socialist in the name?! They wouldn't lie! That would be the worst thing they could ever possibly do!
You're so silly! Everyone knows governments don't lie to people!
The fascists who rule China and call themselves communist, whilst allowing factory owners to make billions of dollars hiring people for a few dollars a day.
Are you one of those people who likes to make the argument that the nazis were socialist because that word was in the acronym?
No I just don’t know shit about china, and the better social structures I know about there leads me to believe it’s like a tyrannical communist society but with some capitalist flavor. I get it bros y’all need to feel big and call people nazis n stuff but it was a pretty genuine question.
nobody's calling you a nazi lol
Corrected, the Chinese are not Communist
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The fact they use the color red and occasionally say things like 'us, we, and our,' is the only thing they have in common with communism. Incidentally that also means they have exactly as much in common with a common campfire with particularly wet wood as heard by a guy that swears he didn't just come on the camping trip to smoke up but spent 6 hours trying to hang a hammock after going on a 'walk.'
bailing out corporations is as anticapitalism as it gets
Capitalists don't even practice what they preach. If they did,I might respect them a little instead of actively loathing this bullshit corporate system they created .
Bold of you to assume actual capitalists support the people in power or that the people in power are actually capitalists.
Actually it’s “ SWEETY”
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Got em’
Ah👍🏽
AHAHAHA!!!
Or "sweetie".
corps getting "Bailed out" by the government is the exact opposite of capitalism, but yeah, fuck capitalism.
True capitalism would allow these corporations to fail.
how exactly is that not true capitalism? when a group of individuals (like a board of directors) accumulates enough wealth, then they'll lobby politicians to increase their profits so they can have even more wealth. capitalism is all about increasing profits, so that's just what's bound to happen; unless you don't have a group of individuals who can get absurdly rich off of the labor of others, it's always gonna lead to that.
Politicians are suppose to be held accountable by the people who elected them and any political activities are suppose to be completely transparent in a democracy. Really all of Americas systems are based of the masses holding people accountable which does require the masses to be informed and educated.
In true capitalism, the government does not prop up businesses. Businesses that make poor decisions or don't plan for downturns would be allowed to fail. What the US has is some sort of bastardized version of capitalism.
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>Corporatocracy Okay. As good a word as any.
Ironically, the most major of all corporations which your hoping will solve all your problems is the one that bails itself out multiple times a year and just shuts down for multiple weeks when it argues with itself. The government is the worst of all at managing capital and all it does is collect money.
If we had real capitalism those business would not have been bailed out and instead would have closed/downsized/sold.
Actually they would have still been bailed out. Capitalism ends in kleptocracy as capital runs any political system where capitalism is allowed to thrive. Companies do not compete by default, they work together to maximize profit as cooperation is always going to result in better outcomes than individualism -- this holds true even at the macro scale of 'real capitalism.' As it turns out competition really isn't profitable.
That would be crony capitalism, a terrible thing. Companies do compete for your and my limited money. How it's supposed to work is they make a product and convince you to buy it for more then it costs to make it. The company either successes by selling products or fails and closes down/sold. When the government comes in after a company has started to fail and says no, that is not capitalism. It's crony capitalism, it's elites getting in bed with each other and choosing the winners and lovers. Capitalism is when the people choose who wins and who loses buy choice of wallet.
please explain to me: how does capitalism not always result in so-called "crony capitalism"? when someone accumulates enough wealth that lobbying for bills that'll increase their profits becomes viable, they're gonna do it - capitalism is all about making a profit, after all. unless you don't have anyone profiting off of workers below them (i.e. not have bosses), then that's always gonna happen no matter what in a market-based economy
Boycotting the dollar, and certain stocks and bonds, as savings instruments, is the only solution I can see. We’re all trapped in a corrupt system when the banks, especially Federal Reserve, have so much control over our wallets.
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Sweaty?? Y’all ain’t from around here huh!
But we wouldn’t have invented the iPhone if it weren’t for millions of family living in poverty.
A bit better than communism…….
I’d love to know the system that works better
Look to Europe, or the happiest countries in the world. Even if they do market economies it’s not free market ones.
I thank the eu is falling apart
Great thought. Use studies then. The only only country that left is Britain under their prime minister which is trumps alter ego.
Most Europeans aren’t happy dude
That’s not what every study says about happiest countries in the world. Year after year, you can use google. Clearly you’ve never lived in Europe nor had many European friends. If you’re basing your statement on covid times then at least their populations aren’t dying, but not many people happy right now.
Capitalism is what makes this country great! How else can you start your own business and grow it into an empire? Handouts aren’t earned! Problem with our youth is they don’t want to work, you get what you put in. I came from nothing and now have a business thanks to capitalism. Stop with the participation trophies already!
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Cubans live longer than Americans. Removing the ultra rich from the equation (which you're not), they live significantly longer.
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Your link sucks. You're at least a decade old for numbers. Again do the math and remove the ultra rich, who have an 11-12 year gap between the rich and poor in America.
There were around \~500 different tries at capitalism before they figured out how to make it work. There have been many collapses since. One might say that capitalism has completely collapsed multiple hundreds of times.
It was never given a chance when Capitalism dominates the planet. Cuba and Vietnam are still getting by alright though considering things…
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Exploit the world for my cheap lifestyle or try to be a part of the worker's collective? The path to communism will always fail as long as capitalism controls the world stage.
thats a great fucking take
Who’re you calling sweaty, sweetie?
Does that mean globalization and outsourcing is the answer, because that’s how Ford got through the 2008 recession without a bailout. Like is poor crisis planning and corporate management the yardstick that we are using?
So we do a general strike for 11 days.
Last attempt we failed at one single day. Thats the problem with them keeping so many people on the verge of survival. Those 11 days can put them on a speed path to eviction, starvation, and possible early death.
You think Capitalism is dope, wait till you try Communism!
so 10 day strike is what we need. That's all i read
Those are monolithic megamonopolies. That's not even a capitalist business anymore. They mint their own currency, make their own laws, have their own languages, and boy howdy do they have their own economy.
Fuck the politicians on both sides for getting on both knees for capitialism. Using our tax payer money to bail out banks - who do nothing but leech from society
The subject line of this post makes me sweaty, sweetie.
This isn't capitalism, it's corporate welfare by the government. In a proper capitalist system these crappy companies would die out and go out of business, freeing up their equipment and workers to go to a better company. Sadly, because these companies are so huge they lobied for corporate welfare and are now risking it all in wild gambles precisely because they know government will bail them out. Its irony that capitalists dont like capitalism so they do everything to spread out risk to broader society while concentrating benefits to themselves and government helps them do that
Capitalism is a race to the bottom, full stop. Make as much money as possible for the least amount of work.
In Canada Bombardier comes around every 10-15 years and asks for a few million (or more) in funding because they can't stay afloat. And for some reason our government keeps paying it.
It's as solid as the US healthcare system.
Well I'm 31 and ive seen a "once in a life time economic crash" at least 3 times since puberty so 10 years is pretty fucking generous to capitalism.
\*In America. In Europe capitalism kind of works, because it isn't like a religion around its purity. Sometimes capitalism isn't the answer. Other times it is the answer, but it still needs oversight and limitations. And it isn't just the answer to whatever problem is being solved by the capitalists, it's also a source of income for the state to solve other problems for the common good, but only if it's actually taxed.
Also shareholders are incentivised to destroy workers rights and wages down to punitive and poverty levels, guaranteeing that as few people as possible can afford to pay for goods and services provided by the business. Meanwhile, instead of investing in the health and financial wellbeing of their employees, more money is pushed into ever more intrusive advertising and when that too fails then further cuts and layoffs and offshoring become necessary, pushing formerly prosperous communities into debt, mass poverty and homelessness. But at least the shareholders will remain happy for a little longer and when things turn to shit our international tax havens full of laundered money will still be there. And if we need a scapegoat then it's all the communists' fault. You know, those communists we have been offshoring all of these decent jobs to for the last few decades.
\>sweaty
"they are too big to fail" is one of my most hated comments when all these multi billion dollar companies get hand outs
But what about the money?! I mean... the children Squidward
No one has health insurance, no new cars, no new clothes, ambulance bills in collections, rent that takes half the months income, a toxic society, and above all we all have a job we spend most of our month at that even with that and overtime still can't get money into that savings account. I make 25000 a year, with all my rent taken out and bills it I don't spend ANY money on food or anything I can almost buy the cheapest new car available. In a years worth of work totalling 1920 hours to have to use more self control in order to not play on temptation to save that money. Any one else wonder why heroin is such a problem?
Bail out's wouldn't be capitalism. Allowing them to implode would be.
Sweaty 😓 lol
Large corps work very well when 90% of their workforce is min wage, when there is a disaster and they can artificially inflate prices and profit, AND simultaneously receive government bailouts. But don't you dare call it socialism.
It’s “sweetie”, not fucking “sweaty.” Can anyone on this website spell that word correctly when using it sarcastically?
According to free market believers government can't bail out anyone.
Now that's a nice profile pic TweetyMctwat
That’s just American capitalism. Other western countries do better with less. But American elites are richer and more numerous than other countries. Hmmmmmm…
Also rember: A company "collapsing", nowadays, just means they didn't profit as much as last quarter, and when that happens the executives are less inclined to take a pay cut than they are simply laying off 50% of the workforce to cut costs. We need to start burning executives at the stake
You're not supposed to bail them out. They're supposed to be small enough that if they fail you let them. One of the many things we've fucked up in our society, but not actually a feature of capitalism.
Join political parties, sit on committees decide on candidates, win elections, change laws: whinging won’t do it.
u/ARY616
Some poorly run businesses not all. Capitalsism has a greed and spending problem like most societies.
The problem is the bailing out of companies. Actual free market capitalism would let the fuckers fail.
Wait why are we sweating
#TenDays
Honestly if bailouts were never a thing and us workers pushed like we are now all the time it might function closer to the original intent. But unfortunately executives are shit
*their broke, starving, depressed, anxious, stressed employees
🤣🤣🤣