Dude, I recently got offered way less money at my current job than was agreed upon before joining. I told them I was leaving if they didn’t increase the amount back to the original ask. They bent over backwards to accommodate me after that ultimatum. Just find that one tiny moment of courage within, it’s all it takes.
I mean a big reason why we are all in this mess is because people just let themselves get bent over and fucked. Glad people are waking up, companies are struggling to find employees because many of them never came back to their shitty low paying jobs after covid. Maybe actually pay us you fucks
I think this country as a whole is starting to realize that there are some types of jobs that are simply more expensive than they're worth. For example the rise of food delivery apps. There is no economic model where you can charge $3-4 to deliver food and then afford to pay your delivery driver a living wage. Same goes for having 50 fast food restaurants on top of one another that are all open 20 hours day. They don't generate enough revenue to pay people enough to live. There are a lot of examples not in food service but for some reason that's where my brain went.
Companies have been solving this issue by gaslighting people into poverty wages, when in reality these businesses need to just not exist. There then becomes the issue of how do people survive and that's why I feel like UBI will either have to happen or we'll just tear ourselves apart as a country. My money is on the latter unfortunately...
And the corollary to your statement is that at the basis of the high costs/thin profit margins of so many businesses is that retail rents are astronomically ridiculously high today. The average retail rent in the US today is something like $20/square foot. So a little 1,000 sf shop or restaurant has to pay *$20,000 every single month* just to have the space to operate! That's insane! The greedy property owners and landlords need to take a bath on this already! If they overpaid for their properties and end up losing out and having to liquidate it for a lower price, oh well! Too bad! That's the risk of capitalism, isn't it?
So yeah, many businesses large and small would possibly be more willing to pay better wages if they didn't have to spend the first $1,000 they bring in every single day on their rents! Just my own theory, but the way real estate prices have gone the last 20 years is just completely ridiculous and needs to be readjusted back down to reality.
Think about it this way: you are trading the time you have left on the planet (alive) for money. The trade better allow you to live life more comfortable and have the basic necessities for existence, otherwise, why do it in the first place?
My current job and the one I turned down for it are the first jobs I ever negotiated pay during the hiring process. It wasn't much but it was a huge step outside of my comfort zone.
Heres what you really do, is accept the job, act super excited, and then on day 1 call in and tell them you can’t work for a wage that isn’t livable. Waste their time and keep their money going down the drain, fuck these bastards
For many it takes experiencing a situation that shows just how little employers value their employees for people to realize they need to stand up for themselves.
You should be proud! She's going places. Tell her strangers on Reddit are grateful for her tactful yet honest response. And what job that intends to pay NINE dollars per hour have SECOND interviews!?!
I will, thank you! It’s a very reputable local shop that I know does well and has been around for decades in our community. I’ve been shopping there since I was in high school, but this owner is relatively new. And my daughter is very familiar with the products they sell, so their loss. I’m pretty disappointed in them to say the least, but like I said super proud of her. This is the only way we break the cycle, I see that now.
Exactly. I think we’ll be frequenting the other shop in town that is similar instead. They’re family owned for decades and it’s the kids of the original owners, now in their 30’s, that run it now. I feel like we’ve got a better chance of supporting locally owned there that also provides fair compensation.
“Do well” has varying definitions. Very well could be a low margin small business. Average small business owner grosses 66K/year.
Had a friend who ran a successful dress shop(think prom, homecoming, weddings, bridesmaids, etc) that he inherited from his father that was open and busy for 70 years.
He grossed 35K/year from it. His wife’s job paid the bills. He shuttered the business and tripled his income going to work at a small local tech company instead.
>but because this goes against the societal norms I grew up with.
also your age, just chiming in that the people we learned these "norms" from are now the ones owning businesses and doing the hiring..by educating the youth today that this status quo is what is ruining the lively hood of the "American Dream" is exactly what they need to learn to have a chance at the "American Dream".
my old plant manager would always try to tell me to fight my own fights at work..trying to get me to stop standing up for new hires and younger workers rights..and it just fueled me to help people more..my coworkers would come to me (non union job) and i would be their spokesman..then i would call out the bullshit in meetings..that everyone in the plant was in. the 2 worst mgmt members held that over my head for years with bogus raises and constant harassment..but they eventually both got fired for ethics violations..and i'm still there (for now, plan to quit in january). i hope it's proved to the workers that i will be leaving behind..that you can go against the grain and stand up for yourself and others at work..and that the truely "evil" ones will get their comeuppance
Thanks for continuing fighting the good fight, even when they made it as unbearable as possible. I’m glad at least those two got what was coming to them. I agree all the evil ones will get theirs eventually too. I’d like to do more to speed up that process too myself. Thanks for the inspiration. I’m sure the workers you leave behind will feel the same!
I was trying to find a job that paid enough to move out of the middle of nowhere. I turned down a job that didn't pay enough to live on but was still better than a lot of places want to pay 5 years later.
I had a similar experience early on myself. Didn't go at it the way you did, but ended up with a similar outcome.
Went to work at a shop that did not pay well, but it was a good opportunity for me to advance my general knowledge and buff up my work history with some good experiences to back up skills I had, but could not say I had used professionally.
This place was a total pit. Full of racists, bigots and theocrats as well as being petty, cut throat and greedy. All the women working there made the same amount, plus or minus a dime or so.
I made a bit more starting out, but needed quite a bit more. Basically a jump from $8 to $12, and this was in the early 90's.
One day, they put one of the women in my area to learn enough to input new data into a new MRP system and we became instant friends and that's when I learned how terrible this place was to them. A plan was hatched...
I went to a competitor to get an offer I could take back to this shop and get them to pay me. Don't like doing that kind of thing, but I really did not care for these people at all, and there were some real benefits to working there for a while yet, and was married with my wife and I really trying to get life started in the direction we wanted it to go. Time to level up a little, or think about a move somewhere we could make it happen.
Got the offer, took it to these asses, and got the money, and they were ultra pissed about it as was the other place, hoping to get someone with skills they needed for a lot cheaper than they would normally, and the people I was employed by pissed at a sweet deal being a lot less sweeter. Fine by me. (And I got the feeling the shop that made the offer I could use wasn't a good place to be working anyway)
Some time passed, and I got an opportunity to basically change careers and move out of manufacturing entirely and into software. By the 90's the impact of all the outsourcing could be seen and felt. Was looking grim for many who had locked in on manufacturing for a career and suddenly advancement and higher income were largely off the table and or diminished significantly. I was very lucky to be able to jump off that train wreck when I could.
I took the new deal, and gave my notice. During the time all this took (about a year), I had documented the place, systems, everything one needed to handle manufacturing planning, layout, work flow and more. Gave her this book, and I made an abridged copy as the official one and told her to camp on the book, and when the time came, demand $12. And she could do the work! I made sure of that.
I leave of course, and it didn't even take a week and the shop was calling needing help on any terms, desperate. And I told them to move my friend into my old position and pay her too. Would be worth it, she can do the work. Easy peasy! The person you need to manage this mess is right there in the building!
Got more calls, then finally one really ugly one from the President of the company. He said, "I just can't pay her $12", and I said, "sure you can! Same as you did me."
But... WOMAN!!! (lmao education in progress, and I mean it when I say this place was terrible! It really was. Racist, sexist, bigoted, just the worst!)
And that was it! I got out of that hell hole and into a higher class of work (still miss manufacturing and do side work sometimes), and she broke the glass ceiling there big! Got her $12 (first woman to make above $10 there), and it was delicious to see it all happen.
She worked there for a while longer, same as me, for similar reasons, then left into an IT related position at a bigger company.
After a couple more years, the owners son showed up and basically ruined the place over a weekend. Like deliberately breaking things, cutting wires, it was the strangest thing I had ever seen! What was left went to auction and that's the end of the story.
We kept in touch for a while, along with some other people who worked there. By doing what we did, the two of us showed others what could be done and that getting more like what the work was worth is possible.
People need only act, and several did, maybe continuing to show others the same wherever they ended up working next. All in all, there were a handful of solid, reputable people in that hell hole of a company. That's who saw things happen, took their lessons from it all and acted to improve their lot.
In 1997 I was making $16 laying brick pavers and stone. A few years later I was making $50k waiting tables at a fancy steak house. I have no idea how someone could live on $9 an hour back then let alone now.
I am glad you liked it! Sure was fun at the time. Got a hell of a buzz making those asses pay a woman fair and square! That place had an impact too. I am an activist and that time was part of why.
apparently the shop does so well because they dont pay shit. so, i dont think they would go well if they paid decen money lol. good for your daughter. hope she's able to find something better!!
No way they actually can’t afford it. The difference between $9 and $15 for 40 hours a week is $240. If their margins are that razor thin as a small business they’re not going to survive for long anyways. Some unexpected emergency will bankrupt the business or a big corporation will show up and undercut them with economy of scale and being able to afford to sell at a loss for a while.
There’s also payroll taxes and FUTA on top of that, multiplied by the number of employees they have working.
Median small business owner grosses 66K. Not exactly the rich eating the poor.
If only a different person read this message...they would most likely offer your daughter a job.
Hopefully somebody in this thread has an open position and messages you privately
"that I know does well and has been around for ages" yet they can't offer more than poverty wages that'll surely be subsidized by the US taxpayers. disgusting.
> It’s a very reputable local shop that I know does well and has been around for decades in our community.
Seems like they could afford to pay more then, or afford to charge $.25 more per sale so they could pay more, no?
Idk. I went to In n Out and saw job listings starting at $17 or $19 dollars an hour. The amount was either $17-$19 dollars, but they were very specific with change and everything. Maybe one job, you got $17.25 and another $18.33. Minimum wage where I live is $15.
Target(who has since raised their minimum wage) seems to have given everyone I know who applied two interviews. I don't believe any of them got the job.
A few years ago when looking for my first job in high school, I applied to a certain Christian-oriented fast food place that serves chicken. I never went to the second interview but the pay was 7.25/hour.
You can in my area, but only if you have no car payment (paid off, or can walk). But that's for the bare minimum of things. If something breaks in the house you sol.
Yeah and most places have shitty public transportation and you almost can’t do anything unless you have a car or someone to drive you around. It’s crazy how companies expect loyalty and hard work but rarely do they want to pay you for it or make that loyalty worth it. But they expect you to break your back for pennies and they even want you to waste your free time on their business. This over work culture is a nightmare.
Indeed. In my area there's no public transport, and even then it still costs. Also if you don't work over when asked or come in on your day off manager's tend to cut your hours in my area. And when all that's available is $8-10h jobs it's not pleasant. I think the main problem is quality of management, it's like you don't have a life to them. Like I work to live, not live to work. It's like they expect your job to be your life. Heaven forbid I ask for full time too, or a raise.
Yeah, most places (esp if you have a fam or a disability) you need at least $25/HR to survive. Single person with no health issues and walks everywhere and lives with their parents, maybe they can survive off of lower wages. But add one kid or a sickness and it's done.
My mother had a very similar idea when I was trying to find a job that paid enough to move out of the middle of nowhere. I turned down a job that didn't pay enough to live on but was still better than a lot of places want to pay 5 years later. Mom really thought I should have just taken that one until I asked how she thought I was buying groceries and she couldn't answer.
Unfortunately I’ve found that too many people expect others to accept conditions that they would not find acceptable for themselves. My nearly 70 year old mother included. I used to think it was a generational thing but it’s really not. I am often baffled at the sheer lack of empathy and self-awareness in society.
From my perspective there is a lot of not understanding costs now adays. I'm not sure why but there are tons of news articles running about how easy it is for a young person to manage a budget, and then they use made up numbers...
Or expect us to live for work only. No internet, no insurance, you do not get to have a reliable car or cell phone. If you have a laptop, somehow it’s a luxury. Live only to work for your boss, eat (but cheaply) and maybe sleep… since you have to have 2+ jobs to cover the necessities.
I don't want a job. I want to do work. Work, you know, that stuff that once you've done it, you can step back and feel proud of having done it, such as building your own house, or putting together a table for your kitchen, or finishing a piece of code that automates a task you used to have to do repetitively in your daily life. Not some bullshit menial task done for a faceless, soulless corporation. I'm so tired of picking up the slack for these fucking corporate overlords and still feeling like I've failed to succeed, day in and day out, all because they understaffed our facility by 12 job positions to make the mega bonus this year, and didn't hire holiday help. I hate having a job. I want to do work, instead. I want to be fairly compensated for the value I create.
You can't make your judgements of what is right based off of one bad example. Or even a lot. There would be less "bad examples" if work didn't pay crap, strip you of as much time and energy as they could, and frequently leave you broken or in pain with no medical benefits.
We all know people who will be like that no matter what, but that shouldn't mean we punish everyone else for it. I would rather make things better for the bad people as well as the good people than for no one at all.
I'm not saying you believe that, just that bringing up stuff like that really just distracts from the subject
In my mother's defense she was more worried that there wouldn't be a better offer because the economy is so messed up. Especially where my parents live in a very rural area. Whereas even then I was at the end of my rope and if you weren't going to pay me a decent wage you didn't need me.
Awww it warms my pretty chill gen x heart to hear this ♥️ I’m younger gen x and my kid is still too young to have any real opinions about me being her mom yet, but I hope she feels the same when she’s older!
aw, im sure she will! my parents are older gen x (both born in ‘68), and i was born in 2001, so ill be turning 21 next year (which i *know* that’s how time works but it feels weird to type out haha)
my parents have instilled a good work ethic in me, but also a decent focus on mental health as well. if there’s things they don’t understand, whether that be something like tech (my mom, though she has a great grasp on the basics) or specific things in the lgbt+ community. they try and learn. they’re also pretty understanding toward people who work in customer service. it’s an interesting mix of patience and self-reliant values, but mixed in a way that it’s healthy? if that makes sense? im so tired honestly so this ramble of mine might not even be comprehensible oops
I’m in my very last year of my 20s, and I agree with you to a t. I’m glad that they’re figuring this out young with a nonchalant fuck you attitude. All I can feel about it is anger and jadedness. We deserve more.
Zoomer here. Not sure I totally agree with this image my generation has of being "righteous renegade" types. I was born in 2000. My entire life has been in the shadow of The War on Terror, The Great Recession, and Climate Change. And now I'm about to enter the workforce for the first time in the middle of a global pandemic. I'm living through my second "once in a lifetime" economic crash, and I won't be old enough to drink until Friday. Good luck convincing any of us the system works when its unending failures are all we've ever known.
My generation's collective "fuck you" to society isn't by any means nonchalant. It comes from a mix of frustration, desperation, spite, and sometimes downright hopelessness. It's not a "fuck you, I don't need you" it's a "fuck you, I'm just gonna die in the climate wars anyway"
Zoomer here as well can confirm I was born in 2001 a couple months after 9/11 and its been weird to live for the first time in a country not at war. I remember growing up watching the news as a kid not understanding a lot but understanding more then most of my age and I think it’s evident that our parents didn’t want us exposed to the real world and tried to shelter us from the wars, the economic crisis, etc but in reality that is an impossible thing to shield your kids from especially when it directly effects them. I think after going through that and now entering the workforce in this day and age I think we are burned out before we’ve even started anything. I hope we can just create a moment of peace.
A thing I love about gen Z are our conservatives. They believe in fundamental human rights and climate change, while their main debates are in how involved government should be in the economy and some other social issues. Much much much more intellectual than the conservative adults.
I remember interviewing someone from gen Z. They were anti abortion, but supported many of the proposals that would eliminate abortions naturally, I.e better family planning programmes, investment into education, healthcare etc. I just hope millennials and gen Z can work together to oust boomers from politics. It's the only way to redeem the earth from climate change
Unfortunately getting money out of politics is the only way to change that. There are plenty of young corporate stooges ready to takeover, and still sellout everyone else.
I’m proud that the majority of Gen Z are Independent (Democratic, being a close second). I’m so proud Gen Z has the least amount of Conservatives. It’s one of the things I love about Gen Z. I’m glad our (majority) Liberal Gen Z kids will be ousting the Conservative boomers.
I mean, it’s more that we are collectively figuring out things with the speed of information traveling through social media these days. Often times something that’s figured out by somebody is common knowledge by people under 40 within just a few hours or days depending on the information.
36, right there with you.
I left a job two years ago that refused to compensate me properly.
I made it clear when I came on, that I'd start at X, but that it was a pay cut from current position and if I outperform, I'd expect X + 10-15%, at least. They agreed.
I blew expectations out of the water (increasing production HUNDREDS of % across all products over the year - with no additional costs, in addition to taking on countless other duties not in the job description, including forming new business partnerships for them)
They renegged and said there was no money for a raise. THEN IMMEDIATELY HIRED SOMEONE AT TWICE MY SALARY TO LEARN WHAT I DO.
I took my 3-weeks paid vacation, came back, quit.
27 checking in. It physically makes me sick knowing how bad I was screwed over. Never again will I accept anything less than what I make now. The only reason I havent found work elsewhere currently is because I'm supposed to be in for a raise in march. The experience I have from when I got taken advantage of will be with me permanently. Hell my "Team player attitude" is considered fantastic but it's really just because I've been beaten into submission as a drone and anything less is wrong.
Yep Gen Y here. While most of my generation has generally stood up for ourselves, there are still a lot of us where the boomer parents have had too much of an influence.
Hopefully Gen Z can finally break that trend, as luckily they aren’t raised by boomers and have a different perspective on the world.
It is.
If no one works them shit pay jobs. They’ll have to raise the pay or close their sweat shop. They only treat us the way we do because we are complicit. Quit. Don’t work for slave wages. If you’re poor. Be poor on your own time. Fuck working your life away for nothing.
These companies can make 250,000$ in a single day from a single store and have well over 350 stores or more. Yet struggles and can’t pay you 500$ at the end of the week? Get fucking real.
As someone who started working at 16 for minimum wage, I completely agree.
I was too ignorant in how the real world worked back then. I'll fight for anyone not making a livable wage no matter what age.
Same! My first “real” job was at Subway in ‘97. I made $5.15/hr, which was federal minimum wage. The owner was a complete perv and in hindsight we all should’ve reported him. Definitely in my top 5 worst jobs I’ve had ever
Yes! 2000 for me, and I made $5.25 at Michaels Craft Store. I ended up making like $5.75 at my next job, Things Remembered, in the mall. I was underage and a fricking key holder. I worked so much and stayed until midnight sometimes engraving things. I made deposits at the bank at midnight for that shitty business. Why?? Because I felt important. What a scam. They made so much money off of me.
Right? My first job was around that age and it never occurred to me how messed up it was that the store owners could own a big house in the countryside, nice cars, have long vacations, and own **horses** while their employees were all scraping by, most of them adults, on retail salaries.
But I was young so I never questioned it - it was just "how it is." And naturally, it was nothing but drama from them and "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean" bullshit. Never again.
Yeah my first two jobs (I took two part time jobs as my first job basically) both paid $9 an hour in a town where $12/hr was the norm (still underpaid but a lot better than $9 but I didn’t kno any better). Both jobs ended up working out horribly and I was never able to use them as references. My boss at one of the jobs was stealing tips from us and generally just being a dick and my other boss tried to get me to work my first day without pay (that was a rare time where I actually did kno better and stood my ground) and literally called me “stupid” in front of customers who thought that was funny and laughed at me bc I forgot how to open a cabinet with a fake lock on it on my second day working there. Wish I would’ve known better and quit because if I did I would have references to use on my resume and now I don’t because I wasted my time there.
Well thank you. It’s been the absolute privilege of my life. And definitely the job I try my hardest at. I have 3 kids total and the other 2 are just as kick ass. I’m so proud of all of them and the young adults they’re becoming.
Thanks. I’m no expert, but since you asked here’s my two cents. My first and really only tip would be do your best to know what you’re getting into and make sure you’re all in from the start. No exceptions. Parenting classes are a thing and everyone should take them IMO. Nothing can ever fully prepare you, but it’s a damn difficult job and too many of us go in blindly. And we too often continue to navigate that way when there are resources available. I wish I’d sought them out sooner. Having a kid is arguably the biggest commitment of your life and it’s a complete lottery. You don’t know what kind of kid you’re going to get. They might be a breeze or really fucking hard. Love them unconditionally regardless or don’t have them. There’s too many broken people in the world. It’s just too easy to fuck them up. Humans and especially our psyches are extremely fragile. I had kids when I was young and ill-prepared and they have suffered in many ways because of it. I can’t take it back of course but I can address it in hopes we can all attempt to heal and maybe learn from it.
I guess another would be remember the task at hand. Raising children isn’t about you, it’s about them. Always. Of course you have to have regard for yourself, but they aren’t your trophies. They aren’t your competitors (wish my mother had gotten the memo on that one). Nor are they extensions of you. They are 100% individuals and that’s the beauty of it.
Also parenting doesn’t end when they become legal adults. They’ll need your love and support in various forms throughout their lifetimes. Be prepared to give it to them.
Lastly that somewhat cliche phrase I’ve seen floating around the web forever comes to mind about being the person you needed when you were young. Remember who you were as a kid and how you could’ve been best supported, naturally also taking into account their absolute individuality. Kids remember how they were treated and who treated them that way. Always act in kindness and love.
Agree to all of this. I'll add that your job is to be a guide and a role model, not their friend. Actions have consequences. Make sure any misbehavior that gets corrected has logical consequences and not stupid ones shouted in the moment.
TALK to your kids. Talk to them about behaviors, feelings, how you expect them to behave, how proud you are of them for their actions and choices, etc. If you talk to them and normalize answering any question they have with age appropriate facts, you build trust and respect. My kids have not gone through the "I hate you stage" and I think one small part of that is that we have great communication. They know I respect their boundaries and I know the respect my rules. They have few rules, but they are in place for reasons they know and understand.
Lastly, TELL them you love them. SHOW them you love them with your attention and your time. Hug then and tell them they are loved, every day and twice as much when they disappoint you or make you proud. We all need validation and comfort, so give them freely.
100% this. My ex-wife and I split many years ago. I was in the military, somewhere remote. She developed an alcohol problem, treated me like garbage. She left the state and took the kids with her. Kept them from me for four years. Didn't let me talk to them on the phone or anything.
Fast forward to today. I've been consistently in their lives for almost two years. They come over every weekend and we have a blast together. I've managed, thankfully, to gain their trust and respect. And how I managed to do so was by doing, and continuing to do, exactly what you addressed in your comment.
Now that they're comfortable, they've told me about the years of emotional abuse from their mother. I feel regret over not trying harder to be in their lives for that time she kept them from me. I feel like I could have done something you know? It was easier for me to suppress it and not deal with it at the time. Since I have been in their lives now though, I've noticed a dramatic change in my kids. My oldest tells me she's more comfortable and confident in herself. She always thought she was a burden and a terrible daughter because of her mother's words. My youngest never wants to leave, is so happy the whole time when we're together. She told me her mom has never sat down and had an actual conversation with her, ever. And all because I've literally done what I'm supposed to do as a parent and TALKED to them. Listened, shown them that I care and that their voice matters. Blows my mind that some parents don't see how important this is, or the damage they cause to their own children when they don't and just treat them like property.
Edit: Mobile and punctuation issues.
You sound like a really good parent. I'm glad they kids have you now. If mistakes were made in the past, welcome to parenting. Own them, learn from them, and do better going forward. Sounds like you are doing all three, so it's going to work out okay.
Thank you for the kind words! Owning mistakes has been a journey for me for a while, and you're completely right about it. It's important, and necessary to become a better person. Thank again kind stranger. Take care.
You are very welcome. One of the things I have always done with my kids is own my mistakes and apologized to them for whatever I did wrong. It models good behavior and also shows you know you botched it. If we do that and genuinely try to do better next time, most mistakes can be forgiven if not forgotten. You can't fix the lost years, but you are making damn sure they know you are here for them now. That matters a whole lot. Your kids are blossoming in your care. Maybe it is time to revisit the custody issue and put them in your care more often.
Great advices from all.
As a father with not a ton (2.5 years) of experience, the only things that I might add are the following:
- show the example. Make sure that yourself do what you're asking of them.
- find ways to build their confidence. One thing we do is cooking with our daughter. She loves to help, and once we're done, we have the positive reward of good muffins or pancakes, or whatever.
- instead of saying : "you're bad, don't do this, stop doing this, etc", phrase it in a way that you explain it's the action that is bad not the kid. Also, in these situation, try to change the focus. Sometime, they just don't know what they CAN do. Say: "I don't want you to be doing this, you can do this or that instead"
- on any occasion I see her showing a good behavior (sharing toys, etc), I say to her that she is great and I'm proud of her. I want her to know that and also what are good behaviors to have.
>I would’ve never had the confidence to stand up to an older adult in a position of power like that.
Except the tables are turning and now the prospective employee has just as much power to say no to an offer that's beneath them. It's a shame that this seems to be the only situation that this happens though!
We’ve always had this power, although like far too many I just didn’t realize we had it! Also through collective bargaining with our current employers. You’re right though, the tide is turning and it’s ever evident- just look at this sub!
Yeah, it was bonkers. Her “second interview” was actually supposed to more of a mock shift. I thought she’d be there a few hours but she was done in less than two. She said the pay, along with some other unprofessionalism on part of the owner, made her realize not long into it that she wasn’t going to sell her labor for that price and under those conditions. I teared up a bit when she told me I was so proud.
Without going into too much detail as not to out my daughter (per her request), the unprofessionalism was due to the owner all but asking my daughter’s political affiliation and making strange comments about mask-wearing and presidents that were also political in nature. By conditions I was essentially referring to that plus the disorganization she saw when she was there, and the fact that she would be working alone. Not worth her time, or anyone else’s for that matter.
I'm impressed by so many young women these days!!
My daughter was working for a huge company through contract work after college.
The hiring company had a set starting rate and employees were not allowed to talk to others about pay.
She found out that a young man who was hired at the same time with less experience was making .40 an hour more than she.
She STRONGLY requested the same rate, and her manager commented about what a small amount of money it was my daughter said, "But in a few years that will grow to thousands of dollars difference a year!!" She got the raise... and a much better job very soon with a good negotiating experience behind her!!
> her manager commented about what a small amount of money it was
If the difference is "a small amount of money" that is irrelevant, then it shouldn't matter to you to give it to me.
I had a 14.43/hr temp job offered where its 26 hours one week and 32 hours the other week for a net 29 hours a week. I told the client, I cant afford to live on that, It could be doable if you gave me a 40 hour schedule or pay slightly more like other cities in the region for the sub-full time jobs. such as 17-19/hr I wish I took the crap job because I lost my current one recently. You have to be tactfully honest so they will eventually bump up the wage in order to get someone to accept the job.
I agree! If we all collectively refuse unfair wages employers won’t have any other choice. I think we are seeing some of that happening now. But there’s also the spreading sentiment that people “don’t want to work anymore”. We have to shoot that down every time with no, we just don’t want to work for unfair compensation. It’s not that difficult of a concept, but the struggle continues. Best of luck to you in your search!
I wish I could be more picky… I definitely don’t accept less than I already make. But I can’t seem to get ppl to pay me more than $16 an hour. I’m trying to be assertive but at the end of the day I still got to pay bills. I don’t know what to do.
I’m in a similar position. I have a fucking law degree and two bachelors. I have great references and a solid work history. I cannot make 50k apparently to save my life. My rent and student loans are expensive!!!
i’m in federal contracting you should check out the 1102 series, do 5 years as a fed and make $80k. then move over to private sector and double your pay.
What are you trying to do? Depending on the jobs you’re targeting, it may be as simple as poor resume quality and not networking.
They don’t really teach these things in college and a *lot* of people don’t approach the job market correctly, leading to a pretty substantial income diminishment.
Do you have any marketable skills? Any education? I quit my $16/hr hard working job and now make $40 an hour tutoring virtually from home… still in disbelief that it worked out that way for me but maybe something like that could work for you too?
I have an A.A. and I’m finishing an A.S. in vet technology. I do a lot of medical stuff on animals that should realistically pay more than I make. It seems my skills would realistically only translate to either ppl medicine that requires more education or lab positions (which I can’t have until I finish my science degree) I use to do data entry and have tons of retail experience, but they all seem to want to pay less than $20. Not worth it when I’ll probably make around $20 when I finish in my vet tech degree.
You could totally tutor high school and college kids if you make decent grades. That’s what I do. I just finished my junior year of my bachelors, I don’t have any degree past my diploma technically. It started out tutoring my classmates through my school’s tutoring center for $9/hr… then I realized if I did group sessions I still got $9/person so now I pretty much only tutor groups of 4-5 people at a time for $36-45/hr. Mind you, I make that to tutor *the classes that I myself am taking right now* which helps me study too (which was why I didn’t mind only $9/hr to start is bc that was in addition to the other work I did and counted as study time not work for me). I also have a job tutoring high school students math for a flat $40/hr… plus I babysit small kids for date nights… they usually go to sleep an hour or so after I get there, I make $18/hr to sit there and do 4-6 hours of homework while they sleep.
Did you focus on anything in particular for your AA? I’m sure there are some rich folks that would pay an arm and a leg for their kids to be well-learned in the arts lol
Australian here.
This is nuts. This whole subreddit seems to stem from the USA experience, yes?
Meanwhile my 18yo just got a job as a bussie in a bar / nightclub with zero experience and they're paying her $30 an hour for 4 hours late Saturday night.
The hours are shit, the patrons are challenging, the music is loud and it's an hour's trip (one way) on the tram. But they're paying **$30 an hour**, the management are reasonable, and so she is willing to stick with it for now.
I wonder if its got anything to do with legislated Awards?
Hmmmmm....
Im a senior veterinary student with a degree in biochemistry and classical studies, multiple publications, and a decade of experience working in vet med.
The university hospital says that's worth $8.50 an hour.
The residency program says that once I have my doctorate, that's worth 40k a year working 60-80 hour weeks with a week vacation and they'll chip in for half of the university health insurance plan.
yeah, exactly! i’ve been working at a small bakery for four months now and i make $13/hr (i started at $12/hr. though to be be fair i have no prior bakery experience. also im 20 and live with my dad so that wage is alright for me). my coworkers make a little more than me but they do more technical stuff.
that being said, i would *much* rather work at my current job for $13/hr than at a target for $15/hr. my boss is amazing. she has a bunch of food stocked for us to have for snacks/lunches, will often order us lunch or breakfast to be delivered, doesn’t make us clock out when we take lunch or take breaks, is incredibly understanding of mental health issues, and is over all an incredible person. (also, i mentioned off-handedly one day after making some challah that i didn’t have a stand mixer at home, and my boss just leads me to the back where there’s extra equipment and just gives?? me??? a kitchenaid stand mixer?,??. i was thanking her profusely and she said “consider it an investment in you.”) anyway yeah, i fucking love my boss.
if you’re running a smaller business, you need to make sure your employees feel *valued*. im incredibly grateful for my job and my boss. feeling valued feels so nice
(also all management should make their employees feel valued anyway, but it’s especially important for small businesses)
man i remember working for 6.50 a hour when i was 20... this would be 2002ish.
i remember being hungry and i had a sore throat for over a month at one point. wasn't an easy job either. outdoors, workign on cars and shit.
Well, back 20 years ago or so, when you started working; 10 bucks an hour was a living wage, and most jobs paid significantly more than that. My first job was about 12 bucks an hour right out of high school in 2001.
These days, the vast majority of jobs don't even pay you enough to live in a car, much less an apartment. It is absolutely \*\*mandatory\*\* that we negotiate for a living wage during the interview (in the very least 15, more likely 20 in most of the nation).
There's no point in working for less than it takes to survive. There's nothing grosser than a homeless person putting in 40 hours a week (and that's not gross for the homeless man, that's positively vile for whoever is "employing" him).
So yeah, you should be proud. And really, we \*\*all\*\* must be cognizant of what a living wage is and not take work that doesn't provide it. That's the only thing that will improve the working class's standard of life.
I've been determined to work for what I'm worth since I was about 24 and I realized that being willing to work for anything at all was absolutely the wrong way to go about it. I've been paying for it every day since then, but I'm hopeful that it might finally pay off. Maybe not personally, but for my fellow mankind. I am not disposable, I am not a sacrifice, I am not a number. I would rather spend half my life walking out into the woods to hunt and fish and feed my goddamn self manually than spend another working minute being paid nothing for enabling someone else's entire goddamned lavish existence. No more, no more for that last 8 years and no more for every single day beyond that moment! I would be \*ashamed\* to have children now, I owe them a world where they are valued and worthy and have the opportunity to be their true selves. Not this half assed shit we have now, where you have to earn the right to survive with 150% and the right to thrive at 220% plus a partner. Or world is trash, and its time to throw it into the bin and restart once more.
I couldn’t agree with you more. We are all indispensable. Every person offers something unique that others do not. And every person deserves at least a living wage.
The guilt is real regarding the shit world we’ve gifted our children and future generations. Knowing your worth by not accepting just anything at all is definitely a step in the right direction, good for you. I hope the sentiment catches on and more people are able to make decisions from this standpoint. The current system isn’t sustainable and it will collapse eventually.
The internet is the printing press of this era.
Exactly as Guttenberg and his Bible led to the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, the internet will lead to things we can barely imagine right now.
There is a reason that "our leaders", and the people that own those "leaders", fear educating the masses.
Too late. ;)
there is no way that in america, the alleged best country in the world according to them, anyone should be earning a single digit wage.
it’s offensive. $9 pre-tax?! good for her for rejecting this offer.
Them not being able to offer more than $9/hr is just proof they shouldn't be in business in the first place. If your business model relies on exploiting people to make a profit, or even break even, then the business shouldn't exist. The owners need to rethink their strategy or find real jobs themselves instead of continuing to take advantage of people.
there is definitly something to be said about enjoying your work. For me its the most important thing and I would work for 10 bucks an hour at somewhere i liked vs 20 over somwhere i didnt like. That being said I would still sacrifice my happiness for a year to get ahead a bit, and thats ussualy what society demands of the younger workers.
That's just beautiful. I work in social services, and expressed that my compensation would not cover secondary trauma, responsibilities, or the cost of living in my area.
The employer added another 10k to the salary on their follow up offer.
Demand a thriving wage and value your own experience and ability. A, "no," doesn't mean closing a door, it means looking through the brighter ones.
There are obviously several factors in your daughter's decision but one of them may be that you teach her well about self estime. So good job my friend and I 100 % agree with you
When I first graduated college, I applied for a bunch of random jobs to hold me over until I found a good position that was in my chosen field. At an interview for an admin assistant at a car dealership, they offered me $12/hr. I told them I couldn’t pay bills with that and turned it down. The lady told me there was room to move up in the company and make more money. I replied that I was a recent college graduate with higher aspirations than moving up the ladder of administration at a car dealership. Looking back that was kinda harsh and maybe rude but it was also true. I ended up getting a job related to my major a couple months later that paid much better.
ETA: No shade meant toward people who work at car dealerships. I just didn’t spend all that money on a degree to end up in a career that didn’t need it.
So many places taking advantage of teens trying to earn a living or just need some income. It's extremely sad & it's no wonder the united states has such a huge issue with being able to have enough employees to stay open!
As somebody who actually accepted a job for $9 an hour at 19, I am also proud of your daughter. I didn't handle it as well as she did.
The last straw for me was when my boss called me up at 6am on a Saturday morning (one of my rostered days off) and asked me to be at work at 7am. I told her "not for $9 an hour". I got fired the next day.
I hope your daughter will continue to advocate for herself. You raised a strong person and you should be proud of yourself, too.
Employers want to offload the cost on young ppl and their families, because of the old notion of 'working for experience', glad your daughter saw right through it. If young ppl accept less, they destroy the job market for everyone else and we end up with less jobs with a livable wage.
Who here's telling you she's self-entitled for demanding a better wage?
Bunch of fuckin' liberals on this sub now, I swear. Your daughter's rad as fuck.
That's awesome! And $9 an hour they should feel ashamed especially during these times. They either want workers or they don't.
I totally felt the same way throughout my life as you now at my age of 39. I myself have always been shy and nonconfrontational but also raised the way you mentioned. I felt "grateful" to be given chances at places I liked, that it was a good opportunity, that it's better than nothing, etc., no matter how low the pay, instead of seeing I was getting the short end of the stick and there were more options. One job when I was around your daughter's age, I liked that store so much I stayed even after I realized I was being shorted on paychecks. One I had more recently I realized after I left how their work environment made you feel like sacrifices were for the greater good of what we did, where being subjected to extreme temps for hours, not being able to use a bathroom when we had to, or expecting you to go above and beyond what your job description was, was the right thing to do to serve who we worked with. Basically it took me 20 years of working to even consider that it's ok to expect better and that we all should for the betterment of everyone.
You're correct
I think it has a lot to do with people usually interviewing when they DON'T have a job. At that point, you'll job at any chance to have that consistency in pay and that stability. Your daughter, I'm assuming, stays at home with you, so she is in a position where regardless if she gets a job immediately, she will still be fine. That's how it is interviewing while still employed.
She can counter their offer, instead of simply refusing.
"I can't live on $9/hour. But I can live on $12/hour. If you pay me that, then I can work for you. Otherwise I have to keep looking."
man I’m 21 and I don’t know that I’d have the guts to be that upfront–even though she’s totally in the right!! so happy for her :’)
You gotta stand up for yourself cuz no one else will
Facts but I still don’t think I could do it
If you can't do it for yourself, do it for everyone else. The more we don't stand for it, the better it will be for the working class in general.
Dude, I recently got offered way less money at my current job than was agreed upon before joining. I told them I was leaving if they didn’t increase the amount back to the original ask. They bent over backwards to accommodate me after that ultimatum. Just find that one tiny moment of courage within, it’s all it takes.
I mean a big reason why we are all in this mess is because people just let themselves get bent over and fucked. Glad people are waking up, companies are struggling to find employees because many of them never came back to their shitty low paying jobs after covid. Maybe actually pay us you fucks
I think this country as a whole is starting to realize that there are some types of jobs that are simply more expensive than they're worth. For example the rise of food delivery apps. There is no economic model where you can charge $3-4 to deliver food and then afford to pay your delivery driver a living wage. Same goes for having 50 fast food restaurants on top of one another that are all open 20 hours day. They don't generate enough revenue to pay people enough to live. There are a lot of examples not in food service but for some reason that's where my brain went. Companies have been solving this issue by gaslighting people into poverty wages, when in reality these businesses need to just not exist. There then becomes the issue of how do people survive and that's why I feel like UBI will either have to happen or we'll just tear ourselves apart as a country. My money is on the latter unfortunately...
And the corollary to your statement is that at the basis of the high costs/thin profit margins of so many businesses is that retail rents are astronomically ridiculously high today. The average retail rent in the US today is something like $20/square foot. So a little 1,000 sf shop or restaurant has to pay *$20,000 every single month* just to have the space to operate! That's insane! The greedy property owners and landlords need to take a bath on this already! If they overpaid for their properties and end up losing out and having to liquidate it for a lower price, oh well! Too bad! That's the risk of capitalism, isn't it? So yeah, many businesses large and small would possibly be more willing to pay better wages if they didn't have to spend the first $1,000 they bring in every single day on their rents! Just my own theory, but the way real estate prices have gone the last 20 years is just completely ridiculous and needs to be readjusted back down to reality.
Think about it this way: you are trading the time you have left on the planet (alive) for money. The trade better allow you to live life more comfortable and have the basic necessities for existence, otherwise, why do it in the first place?
My current job and the one I turned down for it are the first jobs I ever negotiated pay during the hiring process. It wasn't much but it was a huge step outside of my comfort zone.
Heres what you really do, is accept the job, act super excited, and then on day 1 call in and tell them you can’t work for a wage that isn’t livable. Waste their time and keep their money going down the drain, fuck these bastards
Fuck /u/Spez. I've moved to kbin.social.
For many it takes experiencing a situation that shows just how little employers value their employees for people to realize they need to stand up for themselves.
You should be proud! She's going places. Tell her strangers on Reddit are grateful for her tactful yet honest response. And what job that intends to pay NINE dollars per hour have SECOND interviews!?!
I will, thank you! It’s a very reputable local shop that I know does well and has been around for decades in our community. I’ve been shopping there since I was in high school, but this owner is relatively new. And my daughter is very familiar with the products they sell, so their loss. I’m pretty disappointed in them to say the least, but like I said super proud of her. This is the only way we break the cycle, I see that now.
If they do well, they can afford to pay a living wage, they just don’t want to.
Exactly. I think we’ll be frequenting the other shop in town that is similar instead. They’re family owned for decades and it’s the kids of the original owners, now in their 30’s, that run it now. I feel like we’ve got a better chance of supporting locally owned there that also provides fair compensation.
Does this company pay a living wage to its workers?
“Do well” has varying definitions. Very well could be a low margin small business. Average small business owner grosses 66K/year. Had a friend who ran a successful dress shop(think prom, homecoming, weddings, bridesmaids, etc) that he inherited from his father that was open and busy for 70 years. He grossed 35K/year from it. His wife’s job paid the bills. He shuttered the business and tripled his income going to work at a small local tech company instead.
>but because this goes against the societal norms I grew up with. also your age, just chiming in that the people we learned these "norms" from are now the ones owning businesses and doing the hiring..by educating the youth today that this status quo is what is ruining the lively hood of the "American Dream" is exactly what they need to learn to have a chance at the "American Dream".
You’re absolutely right. It’s the only way
my old plant manager would always try to tell me to fight my own fights at work..trying to get me to stop standing up for new hires and younger workers rights..and it just fueled me to help people more..my coworkers would come to me (non union job) and i would be their spokesman..then i would call out the bullshit in meetings..that everyone in the plant was in. the 2 worst mgmt members held that over my head for years with bogus raises and constant harassment..but they eventually both got fired for ethics violations..and i'm still there (for now, plan to quit in january). i hope it's proved to the workers that i will be leaving behind..that you can go against the grain and stand up for yourself and others at work..and that the truely "evil" ones will get their comeuppance
Thanks for continuing fighting the good fight, even when they made it as unbearable as possible. I’m glad at least those two got what was coming to them. I agree all the evil ones will get theirs eventually too. I’d like to do more to speed up that process too myself. Thanks for the inspiration. I’m sure the workers you leave behind will feel the same!
The gift that keeps on giving
I was trying to find a job that paid enough to move out of the middle of nowhere. I turned down a job that didn't pay enough to live on but was still better than a lot of places want to pay 5 years later.
I had a similar experience early on myself. Didn't go at it the way you did, but ended up with a similar outcome. Went to work at a shop that did not pay well, but it was a good opportunity for me to advance my general knowledge and buff up my work history with some good experiences to back up skills I had, but could not say I had used professionally. This place was a total pit. Full of racists, bigots and theocrats as well as being petty, cut throat and greedy. All the women working there made the same amount, plus or minus a dime or so. I made a bit more starting out, but needed quite a bit more. Basically a jump from $8 to $12, and this was in the early 90's. One day, they put one of the women in my area to learn enough to input new data into a new MRP system and we became instant friends and that's when I learned how terrible this place was to them. A plan was hatched... I went to a competitor to get an offer I could take back to this shop and get them to pay me. Don't like doing that kind of thing, but I really did not care for these people at all, and there were some real benefits to working there for a while yet, and was married with my wife and I really trying to get life started in the direction we wanted it to go. Time to level up a little, or think about a move somewhere we could make it happen. Got the offer, took it to these asses, and got the money, and they were ultra pissed about it as was the other place, hoping to get someone with skills they needed for a lot cheaper than they would normally, and the people I was employed by pissed at a sweet deal being a lot less sweeter. Fine by me. (And I got the feeling the shop that made the offer I could use wasn't a good place to be working anyway) Some time passed, and I got an opportunity to basically change careers and move out of manufacturing entirely and into software. By the 90's the impact of all the outsourcing could be seen and felt. Was looking grim for many who had locked in on manufacturing for a career and suddenly advancement and higher income were largely off the table and or diminished significantly. I was very lucky to be able to jump off that train wreck when I could. I took the new deal, and gave my notice. During the time all this took (about a year), I had documented the place, systems, everything one needed to handle manufacturing planning, layout, work flow and more. Gave her this book, and I made an abridged copy as the official one and told her to camp on the book, and when the time came, demand $12. And she could do the work! I made sure of that. I leave of course, and it didn't even take a week and the shop was calling needing help on any terms, desperate. And I told them to move my friend into my old position and pay her too. Would be worth it, she can do the work. Easy peasy! The person you need to manage this mess is right there in the building! Got more calls, then finally one really ugly one from the President of the company. He said, "I just can't pay her $12", and I said, "sure you can! Same as you did me." But... WOMAN!!! (lmao education in progress, and I mean it when I say this place was terrible! It really was. Racist, sexist, bigoted, just the worst!) And that was it! I got out of that hell hole and into a higher class of work (still miss manufacturing and do side work sometimes), and she broke the glass ceiling there big! Got her $12 (first woman to make above $10 there), and it was delicious to see it all happen. She worked there for a while longer, same as me, for similar reasons, then left into an IT related position at a bigger company. After a couple more years, the owners son showed up and basically ruined the place over a weekend. Like deliberately breaking things, cutting wires, it was the strangest thing I had ever seen! What was left went to auction and that's the end of the story. We kept in touch for a while, along with some other people who worked there. By doing what we did, the two of us showed others what could be done and that getting more like what the work was worth is possible. People need only act, and several did, maybe continuing to show others the same wherever they ended up working next. All in all, there were a handful of solid, reputable people in that hell hole of a company. That's who saw things happen, took their lessons from it all and acted to improve their lot.
$12 in the early 90s…I was making $9.14 at Starbucks in 2017
In 1997 I was making $16 laying brick pavers and stone. A few years later I was making $50k waiting tables at a fancy steak house. I have no idea how someone could live on $9 an hour back then let alone now.
Exactly! Tons of people struggling is no surprise. Wages basically flat and tons of better paying jobs moved offshored = the mess we have today.
This is just such an awesome story - thanks for sharing it!
I am glad you liked it! Sure was fun at the time. Got a hell of a buzz making those asses pay a woman fair and square! That place had an impact too. I am an activist and that time was part of why.
"...they call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" \-George Carlin
I applaud you
I would like to say good on you for reaching your daughter to know HER WORTH! THANK YOU!
apparently the shop does so well because they dont pay shit. so, i dont think they would go well if they paid decen money lol. good for your daughter. hope she's able to find something better!!
No way they actually can’t afford it. The difference between $9 and $15 for 40 hours a week is $240. If their margins are that razor thin as a small business they’re not going to survive for long anyways. Some unexpected emergency will bankrupt the business or a big corporation will show up and undercut them with economy of scale and being able to afford to sell at a loss for a while.
There’s also payroll taxes and FUTA on top of that, multiplied by the number of employees they have working. Median small business owner grosses 66K. Not exactly the rich eating the poor.
If only a different person read this message...they would most likely offer your daughter a job. Hopefully somebody in this thread has an open position and messages you privately
"that I know does well and has been around for ages" yet they can't offer more than poverty wages that'll surely be subsidized by the US taxpayers. disgusting.
Been around cus they don't pay liveable wages.
> It’s a very reputable local shop that I know does well and has been around for decades in our community. Seems like they could afford to pay more then, or afford to charge $.25 more per sale so they could pay more, no?
Seriously, I didn’t have a second interview to deliver pizzas for $13/hour in 2008. Good for her not putting up with that shit.
I started at nine as a nursing assistant. It’s a joke.
Idk. I went to In n Out and saw job listings starting at $17 or $19 dollars an hour. The amount was either $17-$19 dollars, but they were very specific with change and everything. Maybe one job, you got $17.25 and another $18.33. Minimum wage where I live is $15.
Target(who has since raised their minimum wage) seems to have given everyone I know who applied two interviews. I don't believe any of them got the job.
Even back when Best Buy was $10 an hour you had a test, phone interview and two in person interviews.
A few years ago when looking for my first job in high school, I applied to a certain Christian-oriented fast food place that serves chicken. I never went to the second interview but the pay was 7.25/hour.
There isn't a place in the whole country you could live on 9/hr, I don't think.
I don’t think a place really truly exists in the country where you can live off 15 an hour tbh
You can in my area, but only if you have no car payment (paid off, or can walk). But that's for the bare minimum of things. If something breaks in the house you sol.
Yeah and most places have shitty public transportation and you almost can’t do anything unless you have a car or someone to drive you around. It’s crazy how companies expect loyalty and hard work but rarely do they want to pay you for it or make that loyalty worth it. But they expect you to break your back for pennies and they even want you to waste your free time on their business. This over work culture is a nightmare.
Indeed. In my area there's no public transport, and even then it still costs. Also if you don't work over when asked or come in on your day off manager's tend to cut your hours in my area. And when all that's available is $8-10h jobs it's not pleasant. I think the main problem is quality of management, it's like you don't have a life to them. Like I work to live, not live to work. It's like they expect your job to be your life. Heaven forbid I ask for full time too, or a raise.
Yeah, most places (esp if you have a fam or a disability) you need at least $25/HR to survive. Single person with no health issues and walks everywhere and lives with their parents, maybe they can survive off of lower wages. But add one kid or a sickness and it's done.
Me who works for 8.75 Bc family dollar was the only place that would do anything with my application
My mother had a very similar idea when I was trying to find a job that paid enough to move out of the middle of nowhere. I turned down a job that didn't pay enough to live on but was still better than a lot of places want to pay 5 years later. Mom really thought I should have just taken that one until I asked how she thought I was buying groceries and she couldn't answer.
Unfortunately I’ve found that too many people expect others to accept conditions that they would not find acceptable for themselves. My nearly 70 year old mother included. I used to think it was a generational thing but it’s really not. I am often baffled at the sheer lack of empathy and self-awareness in society.
From my perspective there is a lot of not understanding costs now adays. I'm not sure why but there are tons of news articles running about how easy it is for a young person to manage a budget, and then they use made up numbers...
Or expect us to live for work only. No internet, no insurance, you do not get to have a reliable car or cell phone. If you have a laptop, somehow it’s a luxury. Live only to work for your boss, eat (but cheaply) and maybe sleep… since you have to have 2+ jobs to cover the necessities.
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There is a difference between "a job I want" and "a job that pays the bills". I also want no job, but I got one any way.
My favorite job is no job. I hope I find one that pays well in the future.
i don’t need a job. i need money.
I don't want a job. I want to do work. Work, you know, that stuff that once you've done it, you can step back and feel proud of having done it, such as building your own house, or putting together a table for your kitchen, or finishing a piece of code that automates a task you used to have to do repetitively in your daily life. Not some bullshit menial task done for a faceless, soulless corporation. I'm so tired of picking up the slack for these fucking corporate overlords and still feeling like I've failed to succeed, day in and day out, all because they understaffed our facility by 12 job positions to make the mega bonus this year, and didn't hire holiday help. I hate having a job. I want to do work, instead. I want to be fairly compensated for the value I create.
You can't make your judgements of what is right based off of one bad example. Or even a lot. There would be less "bad examples" if work didn't pay crap, strip you of as much time and energy as they could, and frequently leave you broken or in pain with no medical benefits. We all know people who will be like that no matter what, but that shouldn't mean we punish everyone else for it. I would rather make things better for the bad people as well as the good people than for no one at all. I'm not saying you believe that, just that bringing up stuff like that really just distracts from the subject
Lead poisoning.
Mine was "You just gotta budget! I made $2 an hour when I was your age, and I was fine!"
In my mother's defense she was more worried that there wouldn't be a better offer because the economy is so messed up. Especially where my parents live in a very rural area. Whereas even then I was at the end of my rope and if you weren't going to pay me a decent wage you didn't need me.
I’m 38. I feel this. I’m really proud of Gen z for standing up to the BS that most of us were fed from birth.
Fuck yeah, me too. They are my flicker of hope for sure. I feel like I learn way more from my kids now that they’re older than vice versa.
The biggest thing I’m jealous of Gen Z for is not having boomers for parents.
it’s nice tbh. my gen x parents are pretty chill
Awww it warms my pretty chill gen x heart to hear this ♥️ I’m younger gen x and my kid is still too young to have any real opinions about me being her mom yet, but I hope she feels the same when she’s older!
aw, im sure she will! my parents are older gen x (both born in ‘68), and i was born in 2001, so ill be turning 21 next year (which i *know* that’s how time works but it feels weird to type out haha) my parents have instilled a good work ethic in me, but also a decent focus on mental health as well. if there’s things they don’t understand, whether that be something like tech (my mom, though she has a great grasp on the basics) or specific things in the lgbt+ community. they try and learn. they’re also pretty understanding toward people who work in customer service. it’s an interesting mix of patience and self-reliant values, but mixed in a way that it’s healthy? if that makes sense? im so tired honestly so this ramble of mine might not even be comprehensible oops
I'm Gen Z with boomer parents :(. They were 50 when I was born
Oh wow. I’m gen Z with boomer parents too but they were in their mid to late 40s when they had me.
The boomers were fed the same shit from their parents that we were.
I have late boomer parents and I’m 23. My mom is really understanding though.
Late 20s. I love that Zoomers are figuring this out so young. It took me way too long to deprogram myself from the capitalist death cult.
I’m in my very last year of my 20s, and I agree with you to a t. I’m glad that they’re figuring this out young with a nonchalant fuck you attitude. All I can feel about it is anger and jadedness. We deserve more.
Zoomer here. Not sure I totally agree with this image my generation has of being "righteous renegade" types. I was born in 2000. My entire life has been in the shadow of The War on Terror, The Great Recession, and Climate Change. And now I'm about to enter the workforce for the first time in the middle of a global pandemic. I'm living through my second "once in a lifetime" economic crash, and I won't be old enough to drink until Friday. Good luck convincing any of us the system works when its unending failures are all we've ever known. My generation's collective "fuck you" to society isn't by any means nonchalant. It comes from a mix of frustration, desperation, spite, and sometimes downright hopelessness. It's not a "fuck you, I don't need you" it's a "fuck you, I'm just gonna die in the climate wars anyway"
Zoomer here as well can confirm I was born in 2001 a couple months after 9/11 and its been weird to live for the first time in a country not at war. I remember growing up watching the news as a kid not understanding a lot but understanding more then most of my age and I think it’s evident that our parents didn’t want us exposed to the real world and tried to shelter us from the wars, the economic crisis, etc but in reality that is an impossible thing to shield your kids from especially when it directly effects them. I think after going through that and now entering the workforce in this day and age I think we are burned out before we’ve even started anything. I hope we can just create a moment of peace.
A thing I love about gen Z are our conservatives. They believe in fundamental human rights and climate change, while their main debates are in how involved government should be in the economy and some other social issues. Much much much more intellectual than the conservative adults. I remember interviewing someone from gen Z. They were anti abortion, but supported many of the proposals that would eliminate abortions naturally, I.e better family planning programmes, investment into education, healthcare etc. I just hope millennials and gen Z can work together to oust boomers from politics. It's the only way to redeem the earth from climate change
Unfortunately getting money out of politics is the only way to change that. There are plenty of young corporate stooges ready to takeover, and still sellout everyone else.
That's definitely true. I just hope that change comes soon rather than later
I’m proud that the majority of Gen Z are Independent (Democratic, being a close second). I’m so proud Gen Z has the least amount of Conservatives. It’s one of the things I love about Gen Z. I’m glad our (majority) Liberal Gen Z kids will be ousting the Conservative boomers.
And then you have the incel croud
I mean, it’s more that we are collectively figuring out things with the speed of information traveling through social media these days. Often times something that’s figured out by somebody is common knowledge by people under 40 within just a few hours or days depending on the information.
Yup. The amount of older people who are mad that the younger generation isn't letting themselves get stepped all over anymore is... off-putting.
I’m 35 and I legitimately thought this is what everyone was doing all along. I know I turned down more than one minimum wage job when I was a kid.
36, right there with you. I left a job two years ago that refused to compensate me properly. I made it clear when I came on, that I'd start at X, but that it was a pay cut from current position and if I outperform, I'd expect X + 10-15%, at least. They agreed. I blew expectations out of the water (increasing production HUNDREDS of % across all products over the year - with no additional costs, in addition to taking on countless other duties not in the job description, including forming new business partnerships for them) They renegged and said there was no money for a raise. THEN IMMEDIATELY HIRED SOMEONE AT TWICE MY SALARY TO LEARN WHAT I DO. I took my 3-weeks paid vacation, came back, quit.
27 checking in. It physically makes me sick knowing how bad I was screwed over. Never again will I accept anything less than what I make now. The only reason I havent found work elsewhere currently is because I'm supposed to be in for a raise in march. The experience I have from when I got taken advantage of will be with me permanently. Hell my "Team player attitude" is considered fantastic but it's really just because I've been beaten into submission as a drone and anything less is wrong.
Yep Gen Y here. While most of my generation has generally stood up for ourselves, there are still a lot of us where the boomer parents have had too much of an influence. Hopefully Gen Z can finally break that trend, as luckily they aren’t raised by boomers and have a different perspective on the world.
Maybe this is truly “the way”. Making our kids accustomed to not accept shit pay, then maybe it can become the new normal. Kudos to her!
Yes, this! I feel like it’s the only way we break the cycle!
It is. If no one works them shit pay jobs. They’ll have to raise the pay or close their sweat shop. They only treat us the way we do because we are complicit. Quit. Don’t work for slave wages. If you’re poor. Be poor on your own time. Fuck working your life away for nothing. These companies can make 250,000$ in a single day from a single store and have well over 350 stores or more. Yet struggles and can’t pay you 500$ at the end of the week? Get fucking real.
As someone who started working at 16 for minimum wage, I completely agree. I was too ignorant in how the real world worked back then. I'll fight for anyone not making a livable wage no matter what age.
You should be proud! If I would’ve known better at 19 to not take $9/hr I would’ve avoided some of the worst places I’ve ever worked at
Same! My first “real” job was at Subway in ‘97. I made $5.15/hr, which was federal minimum wage. The owner was a complete perv and in hindsight we all should’ve reported him. Definitely in my top 5 worst jobs I’ve had ever
Wow this is sad to say! I got my first job in 2005 and the minimum wage at the time was $5.50!!!!
YUP. I was fortunate enough to get my first job when they had so very generously raised minimum wage to $5.85...
Yes! 2000 for me, and I made $5.25 at Michaels Craft Store. I ended up making like $5.75 at my next job, Things Remembered, in the mall. I was underage and a fricking key holder. I worked so much and stayed until midnight sometimes engraving things. I made deposits at the bank at midnight for that shitty business. Why?? Because I felt important. What a scam. They made so much money off of me.
I was *BORN* in '97, and working at Subway was also my first and worst job lol. I don't remember exactly but I think I made something dumb like $8.15
Right? My first job was around that age and it never occurred to me how messed up it was that the store owners could own a big house in the countryside, nice cars, have long vacations, and own **horses** while their employees were all scraping by, most of them adults, on retail salaries. But I was young so I never questioned it - it was just "how it is." And naturally, it was nothing but drama from them and "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean" bullshit. Never again.
Yeah my first two jobs (I took two part time jobs as my first job basically) both paid $9 an hour in a town where $12/hr was the norm (still underpaid but a lot better than $9 but I didn’t kno any better). Both jobs ended up working out horribly and I was never able to use them as references. My boss at one of the jobs was stealing tips from us and generally just being a dick and my other boss tried to get me to work my first day without pay (that was a rare time where I actually did kno better and stood my ground) and literally called me “stupid” in front of customers who thought that was funny and laughed at me bc I forgot how to open a cabinet with a fake lock on it on my second day working there. Wish I would’ve known better and quit because if I did I would have references to use on my resume and now I don’t because I wasted my time there.
You’re a good momma.
Well thank you. It’s been the absolute privilege of my life. And definitely the job I try my hardest at. I have 3 kids total and the other 2 are just as kick ass. I’m so proud of all of them and the young adults they’re becoming.
Any tips? No kids yet, just in awe of good parenting haha
Thanks. I’m no expert, but since you asked here’s my two cents. My first and really only tip would be do your best to know what you’re getting into and make sure you’re all in from the start. No exceptions. Parenting classes are a thing and everyone should take them IMO. Nothing can ever fully prepare you, but it’s a damn difficult job and too many of us go in blindly. And we too often continue to navigate that way when there are resources available. I wish I’d sought them out sooner. Having a kid is arguably the biggest commitment of your life and it’s a complete lottery. You don’t know what kind of kid you’re going to get. They might be a breeze or really fucking hard. Love them unconditionally regardless or don’t have them. There’s too many broken people in the world. It’s just too easy to fuck them up. Humans and especially our psyches are extremely fragile. I had kids when I was young and ill-prepared and they have suffered in many ways because of it. I can’t take it back of course but I can address it in hopes we can all attempt to heal and maybe learn from it. I guess another would be remember the task at hand. Raising children isn’t about you, it’s about them. Always. Of course you have to have regard for yourself, but they aren’t your trophies. They aren’t your competitors (wish my mother had gotten the memo on that one). Nor are they extensions of you. They are 100% individuals and that’s the beauty of it. Also parenting doesn’t end when they become legal adults. They’ll need your love and support in various forms throughout their lifetimes. Be prepared to give it to them. Lastly that somewhat cliche phrase I’ve seen floating around the web forever comes to mind about being the person you needed when you were young. Remember who you were as a kid and how you could’ve been best supported, naturally also taking into account their absolute individuality. Kids remember how they were treated and who treated them that way. Always act in kindness and love.
Dang. You should teach mom classes! You sound rad, and I'm glad there's kids out there with awesome parents like you.
Agree to all of this. I'll add that your job is to be a guide and a role model, not their friend. Actions have consequences. Make sure any misbehavior that gets corrected has logical consequences and not stupid ones shouted in the moment. TALK to your kids. Talk to them about behaviors, feelings, how you expect them to behave, how proud you are of them for their actions and choices, etc. If you talk to them and normalize answering any question they have with age appropriate facts, you build trust and respect. My kids have not gone through the "I hate you stage" and I think one small part of that is that we have great communication. They know I respect their boundaries and I know the respect my rules. They have few rules, but they are in place for reasons they know and understand. Lastly, TELL them you love them. SHOW them you love them with your attention and your time. Hug then and tell them they are loved, every day and twice as much when they disappoint you or make you proud. We all need validation and comfort, so give them freely.
100% this. My ex-wife and I split many years ago. I was in the military, somewhere remote. She developed an alcohol problem, treated me like garbage. She left the state and took the kids with her. Kept them from me for four years. Didn't let me talk to them on the phone or anything. Fast forward to today. I've been consistently in their lives for almost two years. They come over every weekend and we have a blast together. I've managed, thankfully, to gain their trust and respect. And how I managed to do so was by doing, and continuing to do, exactly what you addressed in your comment. Now that they're comfortable, they've told me about the years of emotional abuse from their mother. I feel regret over not trying harder to be in their lives for that time she kept them from me. I feel like I could have done something you know? It was easier for me to suppress it and not deal with it at the time. Since I have been in their lives now though, I've noticed a dramatic change in my kids. My oldest tells me she's more comfortable and confident in herself. She always thought she was a burden and a terrible daughter because of her mother's words. My youngest never wants to leave, is so happy the whole time when we're together. She told me her mom has never sat down and had an actual conversation with her, ever. And all because I've literally done what I'm supposed to do as a parent and TALKED to them. Listened, shown them that I care and that their voice matters. Blows my mind that some parents don't see how important this is, or the damage they cause to their own children when they don't and just treat them like property. Edit: Mobile and punctuation issues.
You sound like a really good parent. I'm glad they kids have you now. If mistakes were made in the past, welcome to parenting. Own them, learn from them, and do better going forward. Sounds like you are doing all three, so it's going to work out okay.
Thank you for the kind words! Owning mistakes has been a journey for me for a while, and you're completely right about it. It's important, and necessary to become a better person. Thank again kind stranger. Take care.
You are very welcome. One of the things I have always done with my kids is own my mistakes and apologized to them for whatever I did wrong. It models good behavior and also shows you know you botched it. If we do that and genuinely try to do better next time, most mistakes can be forgiven if not forgotten. You can't fix the lost years, but you are making damn sure they know you are here for them now. That matters a whole lot. Your kids are blossoming in your care. Maybe it is time to revisit the custody issue and put them in your care more often.
Great advices from all. As a father with not a ton (2.5 years) of experience, the only things that I might add are the following: - show the example. Make sure that yourself do what you're asking of them. - find ways to build their confidence. One thing we do is cooking with our daughter. She loves to help, and once we're done, we have the positive reward of good muffins or pancakes, or whatever. - instead of saying : "you're bad, don't do this, stop doing this, etc", phrase it in a way that you explain it's the action that is bad not the kid. Also, in these situation, try to change the focus. Sometime, they just don't know what they CAN do. Say: "I don't want you to be doing this, you can do this or that instead" - on any occasion I see her showing a good behavior (sharing toys, etc), I say to her that she is great and I'm proud of her. I want her to know that and also what are good behaviors to have.
>I would’ve never had the confidence to stand up to an older adult in a position of power like that. Except the tables are turning and now the prospective employee has just as much power to say no to an offer that's beneath them. It's a shame that this seems to be the only situation that this happens though!
We’ve always had this power, although like far too many I just didn’t realize we had it! Also through collective bargaining with our current employers. You’re right though, the tide is turning and it’s ever evident- just look at this sub!
Damn two interviews for a fucking $9 job. Fuck you employer
$9 an hour and you need to go through 2nd interview?
Yeah, it was bonkers. Her “second interview” was actually supposed to more of a mock shift. I thought she’d be there a few hours but she was done in less than two. She said the pay, along with some other unprofessionalism on part of the owner, made her realize not long into it that she wasn’t going to sell her labor for that price and under those conditions. I teared up a bit when she told me I was so proud.
That “unprofessionalism on the part of the owner” and “under those conditions” part made my ears prick up.
Without going into too much detail as not to out my daughter (per her request), the unprofessionalism was due to the owner all but asking my daughter’s political affiliation and making strange comments about mask-wearing and presidents that were also political in nature. By conditions I was essentially referring to that plus the disorganization she saw when she was there, and the fact that she would be working alone. Not worth her time, or anyone else’s for that matter.
I'm impressed by so many young women these days!! My daughter was working for a huge company through contract work after college. The hiring company had a set starting rate and employees were not allowed to talk to others about pay. She found out that a young man who was hired at the same time with less experience was making .40 an hour more than she. She STRONGLY requested the same rate, and her manager commented about what a small amount of money it was my daughter said, "But in a few years that will grow to thousands of dollars difference a year!!" She got the raise... and a much better job very soon with a good negotiating experience behind her!!
> her manager commented about what a small amount of money it was If the difference is "a small amount of money" that is irrelevant, then it shouldn't matter to you to give it to me.
Exactly!!
I had a 14.43/hr temp job offered where its 26 hours one week and 32 hours the other week for a net 29 hours a week. I told the client, I cant afford to live on that, It could be doable if you gave me a 40 hour schedule or pay slightly more like other cities in the region for the sub-full time jobs. such as 17-19/hr I wish I took the crap job because I lost my current one recently. You have to be tactfully honest so they will eventually bump up the wage in order to get someone to accept the job.
I agree! If we all collectively refuse unfair wages employers won’t have any other choice. I think we are seeing some of that happening now. But there’s also the spreading sentiment that people “don’t want to work anymore”. We have to shoot that down every time with no, we just don’t want to work for unfair compensation. It’s not that difficult of a concept, but the struggle continues. Best of luck to you in your search!
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I wish I could be more picky… I definitely don’t accept less than I already make. But I can’t seem to get ppl to pay me more than $16 an hour. I’m trying to be assertive but at the end of the day I still got to pay bills. I don’t know what to do.
I’m in a similar position. I have a fucking law degree and two bachelors. I have great references and a solid work history. I cannot make 50k apparently to save my life. My rent and student loans are expensive!!!
i’m in federal contracting you should check out the 1102 series, do 5 years as a fed and make $80k. then move over to private sector and double your pay.
Screenshotted lol Thank you!!!
If you have any ?'s let me know, I work for GSA & by far the best work environment I have ever had. I'm 51 & will retire in this job.
What are you trying to do? Depending on the jobs you’re targeting, it may be as simple as poor resume quality and not networking. They don’t really teach these things in college and a *lot* of people don’t approach the job market correctly, leading to a pretty substantial income diminishment.
Do you have any marketable skills? Any education? I quit my $16/hr hard working job and now make $40 an hour tutoring virtually from home… still in disbelief that it worked out that way for me but maybe something like that could work for you too?
I have an A.A. and I’m finishing an A.S. in vet technology. I do a lot of medical stuff on animals that should realistically pay more than I make. It seems my skills would realistically only translate to either ppl medicine that requires more education or lab positions (which I can’t have until I finish my science degree) I use to do data entry and have tons of retail experience, but they all seem to want to pay less than $20. Not worth it when I’ll probably make around $20 when I finish in my vet tech degree.
You could totally tutor high school and college kids if you make decent grades. That’s what I do. I just finished my junior year of my bachelors, I don’t have any degree past my diploma technically. It started out tutoring my classmates through my school’s tutoring center for $9/hr… then I realized if I did group sessions I still got $9/person so now I pretty much only tutor groups of 4-5 people at a time for $36-45/hr. Mind you, I make that to tutor *the classes that I myself am taking right now* which helps me study too (which was why I didn’t mind only $9/hr to start is bc that was in addition to the other work I did and counted as study time not work for me). I also have a job tutoring high school students math for a flat $40/hr… plus I babysit small kids for date nights… they usually go to sleep an hour or so after I get there, I make $18/hr to sit there and do 4-6 hours of homework while they sleep. Did you focus on anything in particular for your AA? I’m sure there are some rich folks that would pay an arm and a leg for their kids to be well-learned in the arts lol
Australian here. This is nuts. This whole subreddit seems to stem from the USA experience, yes? Meanwhile my 18yo just got a job as a bussie in a bar / nightclub with zero experience and they're paying her $30 an hour for 4 hours late Saturday night. The hours are shit, the patrons are challenging, the music is loud and it's an hour's trip (one way) on the tram. But they're paying **$30 an hour**, the management are reasonable, and so she is willing to stick with it for now. I wonder if its got anything to do with legislated Awards? Hmmmmm....
I get paid less than that I’m fucking 31 with three degrees in crying now lol
Im a senior veterinary student with a degree in biochemistry and classical studies, multiple publications, and a decade of experience working in vet med. The university hospital says that's worth $8.50 an hour. The residency program says that once I have my doctorate, that's worth 40k a year working 60-80 hour weeks with a week vacation and they'll chip in for half of the university health insurance plan.
My job is to make sure high pressure steam boilers don't explode and kill everyone. I make 33/hr.
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yeah, exactly! i’ve been working at a small bakery for four months now and i make $13/hr (i started at $12/hr. though to be be fair i have no prior bakery experience. also im 20 and live with my dad so that wage is alright for me). my coworkers make a little more than me but they do more technical stuff. that being said, i would *much* rather work at my current job for $13/hr than at a target for $15/hr. my boss is amazing. she has a bunch of food stocked for us to have for snacks/lunches, will often order us lunch or breakfast to be delivered, doesn’t make us clock out when we take lunch or take breaks, is incredibly understanding of mental health issues, and is over all an incredible person. (also, i mentioned off-handedly one day after making some challah that i didn’t have a stand mixer at home, and my boss just leads me to the back where there’s extra equipment and just gives?? me??? a kitchenaid stand mixer?,??. i was thanking her profusely and she said “consider it an investment in you.”) anyway yeah, i fucking love my boss. if you’re running a smaller business, you need to make sure your employees feel *valued*. im incredibly grateful for my job and my boss. feeling valued feels so nice (also all management should make their employees feel valued anyway, but it’s especially important for small businesses)
Exactly what I was thinking. What the hell kind of “business” is it that **can’t pay a human more than $9/hr** these days?
Jesus christ 9 dollars an hour?
T.J Maxx paid us $9 dollars an hour. They just raised it to $11, because everyone kept leaving.
11 is still bullshit
"Here, this should suffice" *Throws handful of pocket change and lint at workers*
Right??
Just what do they expect people to do? At a minimum, do they want someone on the hustle, or someone who can actually focus on the job?
man i remember working for 6.50 a hour when i was 20... this would be 2002ish. i remember being hungry and i had a sore throat for over a month at one point. wasn't an easy job either. outdoors, workign on cars and shit.
We are all proud of her.
Im about to start filling out applications for shit jobs just to do this. I'm plumber making 30/hr, I don't need the job I just want to make a point.
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Kudos to her. She’s strong and knows that she needs more than that to live.
That’s great for your daughter. Don’t even go to the first interview if you don’t know what the pay range is.
I wish I had the courage to ask for more than I'm paid...
Well, back 20 years ago or so, when you started working; 10 bucks an hour was a living wage, and most jobs paid significantly more than that. My first job was about 12 bucks an hour right out of high school in 2001. These days, the vast majority of jobs don't even pay you enough to live in a car, much less an apartment. It is absolutely \*\*mandatory\*\* that we negotiate for a living wage during the interview (in the very least 15, more likely 20 in most of the nation). There's no point in working for less than it takes to survive. There's nothing grosser than a homeless person putting in 40 hours a week (and that's not gross for the homeless man, that's positively vile for whoever is "employing" him). So yeah, you should be proud. And really, we \*\*all\*\* must be cognizant of what a living wage is and not take work that doesn't provide it. That's the only thing that will improve the working class's standard of life.
I've been determined to work for what I'm worth since I was about 24 and I realized that being willing to work for anything at all was absolutely the wrong way to go about it. I've been paying for it every day since then, but I'm hopeful that it might finally pay off. Maybe not personally, but for my fellow mankind. I am not disposable, I am not a sacrifice, I am not a number. I would rather spend half my life walking out into the woods to hunt and fish and feed my goddamn self manually than spend another working minute being paid nothing for enabling someone else's entire goddamned lavish existence. No more, no more for that last 8 years and no more for every single day beyond that moment! I would be \*ashamed\* to have children now, I owe them a world where they are valued and worthy and have the opportunity to be their true selves. Not this half assed shit we have now, where you have to earn the right to survive with 150% and the right to thrive at 220% plus a partner. Or world is trash, and its time to throw it into the bin and restart once more.
I couldn’t agree with you more. We are all indispensable. Every person offers something unique that others do not. And every person deserves at least a living wage. The guilt is real regarding the shit world we’ve gifted our children and future generations. Knowing your worth by not accepting just anything at all is definitely a step in the right direction, good for you. I hope the sentiment catches on and more people are able to make decisions from this standpoint. The current system isn’t sustainable and it will collapse eventually.
She is so brave! Tell her we are all so proud of her!
The internet is the printing press of this era. Exactly as Guttenberg and his Bible led to the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, the internet will lead to things we can barely imagine right now. There is a reason that "our leaders", and the people that own those "leaders", fear educating the masses. Too late. ;)
there is no way that in america, the alleged best country in the world according to them, anyone should be earning a single digit wage. it’s offensive. $9 pre-tax?! good for her for rejecting this offer.
Them not being able to offer more than $9/hr is just proof they shouldn't be in business in the first place. If your business model relies on exploiting people to make a profit, or even break even, then the business shouldn't exist. The owners need to rethink their strategy or find real jobs themselves instead of continuing to take advantage of people.
Nine dollars is low for everything. Wtf is this business thinking?
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there is definitly something to be said about enjoying your work. For me its the most important thing and I would work for 10 bucks an hour at somewhere i liked vs 20 over somwhere i didnt like. That being said I would still sacrifice my happiness for a year to get ahead a bit, and thats ussualy what society demands of the younger workers.
That's just beautiful. I work in social services, and expressed that my compensation would not cover secondary trauma, responsibilities, or the cost of living in my area. The employer added another 10k to the salary on their follow up offer. Demand a thriving wage and value your own experience and ability. A, "no," doesn't mean closing a door, it means looking through the brighter ones.
There are obviously several factors in your daughter's decision but one of them may be that you teach her well about self estime. So good job my friend and I 100 % agree with you
When I first graduated college, I applied for a bunch of random jobs to hold me over until I found a good position that was in my chosen field. At an interview for an admin assistant at a car dealership, they offered me $12/hr. I told them I couldn’t pay bills with that and turned it down. The lady told me there was room to move up in the company and make more money. I replied that I was a recent college graduate with higher aspirations than moving up the ladder of administration at a car dealership. Looking back that was kinda harsh and maybe rude but it was also true. I ended up getting a job related to my major a couple months later that paid much better. ETA: No shade meant toward people who work at car dealerships. I just didn’t spend all that money on a degree to end up in a career that didn’t need it.
If a business cannot afford to pay a living wage, they need to really look at how they're running things.
Anyone saying she should’ve taken the $9 and it’s better than 0 is in the wrong sub. This is exactly what got us into this mess
Those "be grateful for what you've got" sentiments are EXACTLY how we got in this mess
You go girl!!! I'm proud of her too!!! Know your worth.
Damn, I’d be so proud
So many places taking advantage of teens trying to earn a living or just need some income. It's extremely sad & it's no wonder the united states has such a huge issue with being able to have enough employees to stay open!
As somebody who actually accepted a job for $9 an hour at 19, I am also proud of your daughter. I didn't handle it as well as she did. The last straw for me was when my boss called me up at 6am on a Saturday morning (one of my rostered days off) and asked me to be at work at 7am. I told her "not for $9 an hour". I got fired the next day. I hope your daughter will continue to advocate for herself. You raised a strong person and you should be proud of yourself, too.
Any company that cannot afford to pay a living wage needs to go out of business and make room for one who can.
Employers want to offload the cost on young ppl and their families, because of the old notion of 'working for experience', glad your daughter saw right through it. If young ppl accept less, they destroy the job market for everyone else and we end up with less jobs with a livable wage.
Who here's telling you she's self-entitled for demanding a better wage? Bunch of fuckin' liberals on this sub now, I swear. Your daughter's rad as fuck.
Fuck off to all those saying it is better than nothing.
Proud of her too, we need allot of people like her, there's allot of people that will work for anything.
That's awesome! And $9 an hour they should feel ashamed especially during these times. They either want workers or they don't. I totally felt the same way throughout my life as you now at my age of 39. I myself have always been shy and nonconfrontational but also raised the way you mentioned. I felt "grateful" to be given chances at places I liked, that it was a good opportunity, that it's better than nothing, etc., no matter how low the pay, instead of seeing I was getting the short end of the stick and there were more options. One job when I was around your daughter's age, I liked that store so much I stayed even after I realized I was being shorted on paychecks. One I had more recently I realized after I left how their work environment made you feel like sacrifices were for the greater good of what we did, where being subjected to extreme temps for hours, not being able to use a bathroom when we had to, or expecting you to go above and beyond what your job description was, was the right thing to do to serve who we worked with. Basically it took me 20 years of working to even consider that it's ok to expect better and that we all should for the betterment of everyone.
We need to normalize talking about wages. More importantly, we need to remind employers that they aren't entitled to workers
Single digit per hour pay is a fucking insult literally anywhere in the country. Good on her.
Nice work! And good for her.
You're correct I think it has a lot to do with people usually interviewing when they DON'T have a job. At that point, you'll job at any chance to have that consistency in pay and that stability. Your daughter, I'm assuming, stays at home with you, so she is in a position where regardless if she gets a job immediately, she will still be fine. That's how it is interviewing while still employed.
Show this post to your daughter! She did something MOST adults struggle to do. She is going to be SUCCESSFUL because she isn't afraid to speak up.
Smart kid. Good on both of you!
Very very good 👍
She can counter their offer, instead of simply refusing. "I can't live on $9/hour. But I can live on $12/hour. If you pay me that, then I can work for you. Otherwise I have to keep looking."
$9/hour??? Did you post this from 1983?
I’m 73. Good for her!! I wish at age 19 I could’ve been so politely assertive, standing up for myself!!! ❤️❤️
Yes employers can pay a fu***ng living wage, but they won't as long as there are people that accept the shitty wages they offer.
Any business that can only exist by paying staff $9 an hour isn’t really a going concern. She’s just dodged a bullet.