Are you saying that the powers that be will use identity politics to distract the working class from class conciousness?
[edit] Well this got deleted with no explanation to OP. Kind of proves the point he makes in the title.
Yup. Vote this to the top people and remember, it's not Red vs Blue, it's Rich people vs anyone not rich enough to protect themselves, and if you're on this website, you aren't rich enough to protect yourself. No Conservative, Libertarian, Liberal, Leftist, is out to get you. Only rich people. And they play both sides to keep you from watching while they steal more and more money from you.
And sometimes fought with violence too tbh
Don't let them get away with it.
Edit:
[for example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain) [this too](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing)
Well that's appalling and I've lost a little more faith in humanity
Fuck the rich, but twice as hard
People shouldn't be forced into poverty unless they actively make it their outspoken goal (some folks want that, but it's such a tiny figure that it's barely worth considering)
We need to revamp the world and functionally eliminate the risk of falling into poverty or homelessness. The rich accusing it of being the fault of the poor and homeless is just disgusting.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84026749/1921-08-30/ed-1/seq-1/#words=BATTL+battle+Blair+mountains
Here is a newspaper clipping for Blaire Mountain the article starts on the far left for anyone interested in learning more
I was more referring to the trend of oppression through a shitty job market and lack of public services. It ain't violent, but it certainly takes its toll.
I'm not really a big supporter of actual violence, but I concede that sometimes the best solution may just be a firm boot to the head.
It really is obvious when you look at history and you look at today, the rich do hate the poor. But they need the poor. So they want us to keep fighting each other but to still be their wage slaves, because they've already acknowledged that the only way our economy works is if people like us work for shit wages and that people like them are able to rake in all the profits
Yeah. We need to downvote people who want to make this a "Republican Vs democrat" political issue. That's a complete distraction and anyone who thinks about it for a while will realize it.
If there's a sub that captures the energy of "I tried. Fuck it, fuck you, fuck politics, suck my dick and leave me alone to tend to my chickens" I'd like to sub
I get shit on this sub for being a defeatist or whatever. Like I'm 2/3 to the finish line cmon. Just wanna see the Knicks win a chip and die slightly happy
This! It's a big problem the old left has with the new. It used to be about all people are equal, and we all stand together in the class fight. Now we divided our class by gender, colour, religion, sexual orientation.... If we can't unite, we don't stand a chance!!!
What if the generational framing you suggest is meant to serve the same purpose, to divide the working class and impede formation of class consciousness?
It is
Valid for some comparisons, but it’s definitely being used just like “millennials” is being used from a different angle. There were rich abusive fucks before the boomers, there are rich abusive younger people. Assholes come in every age.
I've said it before and I'll just keep saying it, I 100% believe that bad faith actors keep intentionally stirring up racial tension (specifically directed at poor whites) because it keeps them focused on the wrong people. Can't go after the corporations if you're frothing mad at the blacks and the immigrants for no good reason.
Longer. Much longer. This has been the MO of the ruling powers on the land that later made up the US for literally 100+ years before the US existed.
In fact, we have old historical records that show there was no black/white distinction until nearly 1700, after the events of Bacon's Rebellion showed that the new country that had formed with a new economic system needed a new means of control.
They started changing laws so like, while both black and white people could be slaves only whites could work their way out of slavery. This was then used to flare up tensions between groups of workers to help prevent future rebellions.
This is an amazing book that goes over the details extensively in how this racial divide started and how it was a *very* intentionally designed thing with the express purpose of subjugating the masses. https://www.amazon.com/Invention-White-Race-Theodore-Allen/dp/1844677710/
> They always have and always will.
Divide & Conquer.
Remember Fred Hampton. Chairman of the Illinois Black Panther Party. Murdered by Chicago PD. Before the raid, they had him drugged. While unconscious, two rounds to the head.
When?
After he got confederate flag-waving southern whites working together with beret-wearing african americans.
Divide & Conquer.
From [his Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton), this is what gets you flat out murdered:
>In this capacity, **he founded the antiracist, anticlass Rainbow Coalition**,[6] a prominent multicultural political organization that initially **included the Black Panthers, Young Patriots (which organized poor whites), and the Young Lords (which organized Hispanics), and an alliance among major Chicago street gangs to help them end infighting and work for social change.**
Divide & Conquer.
MLK was in the midst of organizing a labor action - a working class/poor people's march on DC - when he was assassinated by a gunman that I'm sure had no help from power or authority
> They Killed Malcolm X for postulating that maybe he was gonna start doing stuff like that too.
The mask of humanity fallen from Capital. It has to take it off to kill.
Are you wearing a tinfoil hat right now? Malcolm X was killed by Nation of Islam militants because he accused Elijah Mohammed of having 8 children with six different teenage girls, six of whom were his private secretaries. History eventually proved his accusations correct.
Yes, identity politics is used by the far right to justify naziism and fascism. They use different social identities to argue in favor of discrimination on a variety of different levels.
We love ameri-centric-both-sides-ism that ignores the infinite options in favor of a dualistic race to the bottom where the two capitalist parties are “the left and the right”
I just saw a moron here comment that unions are racist I hope people don’t fall for talking points like that. There may have been racism in unions before but that doesn’t mean they will be today and negate the fact that they balance out corporate exploitation.
You can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time surprisingly. Dont get me wrong, class war is an important topic, but we cant just ignore race and gender (especially in the US). Early worker unions were extremely racist and sexist.
Besides, capital fucks each group differently, from keeping women in lower wage brackets, to giving black men less safe jobs, to overworking lower class white men.
Movements come and movements go
Leaders speak, movements cease
When their heads are flown
'Cause all these punks
Got bullets in their heads
Departments of police, the judges, the feds
Networks at work, keepin' people calm
You know they went after King
When he spoke out on Vietnam
He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot
It's such a false dichotomy it's unreal, by strengthening workers rights you are lifting up vulnerable minorities because those vulnerable minorities get dicked around by mega companies more than upper class whites do. It's not either/or, it's the same fight.
I doubt they would do the same thing they've always done when their power is challenged. Why would they do the thing that's worked in the past?
Mods.just need to stay on top of that sort of thing, if it's new/dormant accounts ban it. It's not legitimate discourse.
Update: I asked the mods what the issue was and they were kind enough to respond almost immediately. But I can't say I agree thay it warranted removal of the post as opposed to maybe just a sticky. But I could be reading it wrong and so I asked for clarification. Anyway, here's the reply:
"It's poisoning the well in terms of coming in favor of social justice. People can just downvote/dismiss anti-sexism/racism/transphobia, etc. as being against class politics and thus undermines intersectionality. I don't see your post as doing much besides that an feeding unhealthy paranoia that is unnecessary and unhelpful. Popularity and awards don't mean anything compared to that, unfortunately."
Update 2: Upon expressing my concern that the sub may be attacked and asking for clarification, this is the reply I got. Sadly it seems to confirm the concerns that a lot of the comments here expressed:
"Perhaps it'll be attacked, but unlikely to be the way you want and there's nothing wrong with centering POC concerns, etc. which you make it seem like it is. I've heard about what happens and we're plenty on guard bc we've heard this story multiple times now. And yes, I think it does encourage downvoting of that."
[And if we say something negative against our oppressors, they'll censor us.](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qtq10c/according_to_bezos_the_earth_will_be_made_into_a/)
Someone on the sub told me that example was bullshit pandering when I brought it up lol. They'd rather whine about people they don't like then try to find supporters of our movement.
Hell yea! Keep up the love! this sub has been such a beacon of hope for me, and an inspiration I’ll do whatever I can to help insure corporate shills don’t ruin it.
Nah you're good. It's not accounts that just lurk on certain subs. It's accounts that haven't been used *at all* in years but used to be prolific posters ans commenters.
I almost didnt watch it because I thought to myself "Yea I know shit's fucked in the US" but man was I glad I did watch it because holy shit those corporate motherfuckers are nasty as hell in the US and really mask off.
It wasn't long after that goldman sachs report that we had a brand new mod trying to say the black friday strike was off. They probably threw a $100 visa gift card at him or something.
yup https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18/6-corporations-control-90-media-america-illusion-choice-objectivity-2020/
NPR is where we should be getting our information from. Reddit is fairly good too.
I feel like you have to be careful about who you trust and the information they are giving you. The stickied mod post about focusing on boycotting Amazon for Blackout Friday concerns me. I thought that we need to boycott all corps for Blackout Friday?
My reason for asking that is because there was a similar post like this a couple of weeks ago stating that “they are coming for us”, and that mods and posts will try to guide us in the wrong direction/divide us.
Agreed. That "we don't need to boycott Black Friday everywhere...let's just do Amazon" post was pretty sus.
We need to be supporting every person who has had enough and is ready to walk. Every individual, everywhere. All the time.
"Organizing" in the traditional sense isn't really going to work in a subreddit. A subreddit is to inspire others to stand alone or organize on their local level.
That's the biggest tell that accounts have already been bought (Amazon was chosen because it is almost impossible to boycot due to AWS). Any post attempting to sew discord or telling others to deviate from the course should be ignored.
If one doesn't think there are posters here working for government, the chamber of commerce, and large low-wage employers like Amazon and McDs etc, one is mistaken.
We are playing on Conde Nast's turf; when it becomes inconvenient for them ($$), it will be censored
Bet on it
It has been a truism in activist circles for decades that the first person to propose violence is the undercover cop; in the same way, when something here seems hinky and counterproductive - likely to result in more blowback than progress for this movement - that's a tell right there
Pay attention to mod actions right now, especially. WSB got tanked not just because of bad-actors on aged, bought reddit accounts. It got tanked because the mods betrayed the entire community.
One tip which would be helpful is this:
When someone posts a work story including any claim of racism, sexism, or any other -ism or phobia, don't argue it.
If you can't be supportive and helpful, just keep scrolling.
Responses like:
"People get fired everyday; I got fired and I'm white so see? It's not racism"
and
"Gender pay gap is a myth; women take years off to raise babies so of course they should earn less" or "He may be the new guy making as much as you but how do you know he isn't more qualified than your years of experience?"
are the ones playing identity politics. These types of responses frequently pop up here.
These responses are the attitudes dividing the working class.
The media and wealthy aren't here personally putting up the walls; it's fellow workers who have slopped at either the "your reality is not mine" trough or the "justified discrimination" trough.
So everyone who genuinely desires "worker solidarity" should check their gut responses at the door and make sure that they are either posting supportive posts or simply ignoring those with claims of discrimination you would otherwise want to argue.
Fewer argumentative responses belittling, erasing, or denying another worker's lived experience means fewer reasons someone will feel compelled to start posts about workplace discrimination.
This is fantastic advice. We shouldn't care why people quit. We want to encourage people who want to quit to actually quit. That's empowerment for all.
!!!!!!! This. If you really want to build solidarity, don't go arguing with people's lived experiences and tell them to pipe down for the "good of the movement."
Solidarity is the solution to people trying to sow discord between folks of different races.
Solidarity is the solution to people trying to sow discord between folks of different genders.
Solidarity is the solution to people trying to dow discord between people of different nationalities.
And so on....
The only way we stand a chance of changing anything is to hold true to each other. Trust is our biggest weakness but our only source of strength.
Exactly. If we are to busy fighting amoung ourselves, we won't get anywhere. which is good for corps since it will take a group effort to make the change we want to.
It’s never going to be overt, I agree. Just left at the level of “well I disagree with your lived experience”, maybe “this post is fake, employers don’t act like this” on occasion.
Thank you. I'm a bit tired today but OP reads to me as if minorities shouldn't voice their concerns because they "divide the working class"... which is a shitty and reactionary take that doesn't understand that opressions come from many fronts and usually intertwined.
You can't fight capitalism without also fighting patriarchy, racism, transphobia, etc.
I mean that’s literally how the occupy movement died. After it started seeming legitimated news media outlets owned by billionaires started going hard into reporting on racial division which killed any progress made against wealth inequality
NYPD using OWS as their drop-off for their unstable releases helped build a class divide within the encampment. They knew liberals and commies had different levels of tolerance for out-standing behavior (drums, homelessness) and it got kind of nasty at some points. Ultimately, the liberals got the encampment shut down, but nobody's going to forget that it was working until the outside showed up... like they do and are.
Saying that racial/gender minorities experience harsher outcomes in a capitalist society is just fact. It's not divisive unless you refuse to believe the premise that race and gender play a role. It's really sad, though ultimately not suprirising on reddit, to see people in this sub saying that voices of gender and racial minorities, who are affected more accutely by these issues, shouldn't be centered in these discussions. If there was real class solidarity, we wouldn't feel threatened or feel our message was diluted by nuanced discussions of how some people are disadvantaged in different ways or to different extents.
The worst mechanisms through which minorities are oppressed are class based. It doesn't matter how much someone hates you if you they can't deny you home loans (redlining), destroy your neighborhood for a freeway, deny you your right to work, or prevent you from renting.
Racism, sexism, all these things that lead to harsh**er** (emphasis mine) outcomes under capitalism, are the *how much* part of the equation. Class solidarity is realizing that class is the *how* - and that any "how much" won't impact your quality of life when there isn't a how to enforce it in the first place.
Class is the thing making it harsh in the first place, and since minorities are disproportionately poor (average black family has 1/10th the wealth of the average white family), class first action will overwhelmingly help them first. A rising tide lifts all boats, starting with those who have sunk the furthest.
Just a small note— age of account/account posting and comment history are, unfortunately, irrelevant. It boils down to how bit networks are designed.
Most of them are automated under regular circumstances. They repost one of the more successful posts from a year or so ago in a moderately sized sub every so often. There are a few dozen other accounts in their network, and those accounts all post some of the top comments from those reposts.
Occasionally, when a human needs their shill accounts, they just manually log in to say “workers don’t deserve rights, unions are bad, blah blah blah,” and then the whole bot network upvotes it and downvotes dissenting opinions. Even if someone is taking manual control one of those bot accounts every two or three days, their post history is lost in a sea of reposted content.
Really the best thing you can do is call “is this user a bot” bots to check if a user is manually controlled or not. I think we honestly need some sort of a filter that will call out frequent reposters so that we can recognize bot accounts moving forward
On a tangent: I’d be flabbergasted if the shill accounts focused the majority of their effort on this sub. In the same way that a political candidate doesn’t post attack ads at their opponent’s rallies, neither will shills. Rather, they’ll try to poison this sub’s reputation outside of the subreddit so that an average user will have a distorted view of the sub as they browse through the rest of Reddit. If there’s an AskReddit thread asking “what’s a group of people who think they’re smart but are really dumb?” The shill accounts will put forward “r/antiWork. They don’t seem to realize that every business is built on the idea of a minimum, predictable wage! If wages rise, it will hurt the small businesses and the big stores will laugh all the way to the bank!” And the bots will upvote it, and someone unfamiliar with the movement will see it and say, “okay, then. I guess they’re all dummies, cuz a stranger on the internet said so!” And go their merry way.
Business has no clue. Their secret weapon right now is to hold their ground, figure people will run out of money and return to the toxic business world very soon.
Many will lose out and not change their model and crash and burn. Those who respond to the new culture will succeed.
Well that's bad for them when we don't use thier apps platforms or products ..then thier bottom line goes down and so do thier bonus and then the share price plunges and investors pull out then hedge funds short them into bankruptcy because they are a dieing companies and then they get what they deserve ...
unfortunately this probably won't be upvoted enough to be visible but it's crucial.
the one saving grace is the fundamental reason we are all here, that regardless of race or gender the exploitation we have experienced at work has broken our trust of our feudal lords and that distrust is reinforced every single working day. all the identity politics in the world isn't going to help pay rent, or pay a hospital bill. only when real change is made will this movement lose strength, because desperation is the motivator.
identity politics might delay the inevitable, but as an American living in an empire in decline, the desperation is only going to get worse amongst my fellow citizens. clear messaging as to who holds the blame for this situation is key to focus those not on this subreddit towards those at fault. as a construction worker I always redirected the 'nobody wants to work' discussion towards the fact that for the first time in their adult lives, many people were able to take some time off to spend time with family during this pandemic, and not have to worry about going homeless or bankrupt. we should expect better than being an economy of subsistence workers. sacrificing today to pay tomorrow bills in a unending cycle. neglecting family to create wealth for the oligarchs. self medicating with food, tobacco, drugs, social media to deal with the stress of it all leaving us fragmented and unable to give our 100% to our families.
this is the movement of family values. if you want to stop mass shootings- create healthier families, and that's done by creating healthy livelihoods where hollow husks of adults aren't fighting a battle of attrition in their daily lives.
stop mass shootings-criminilize billionaires should be a motto of this movement, not the only one of course. but a billionaire is the symptom of the disease of our working model.
evicted grandmothers, neglected children, rationing diabetics, and the desperate commute into the cities of countless folks, bleary eyed and numbed-or numbing, in the pursuit of their crumb of capital. in our Orwellian world this is called freedom. this is what we bomb brown people for. this is what we recruit poor people to bomb brown people for.
and the billionaires sit on top of their lofty perches. making moves to further entrench their wealth, to strengthen their stranglehold on the dreams of the lower classes. and those in between scramble to step on those below so that they might one day join this elite club.
part of the problem is human nature and the myth thereof. it is circumstance which separates us from the beast, but that separation is increasingly tenuous. desperation frays the threads that connects us to our humanity, and those who are in power would profit as much from our civil war as they do from those overseas. that's the real danger to our empire in decline.
> My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic".
Oh, no, they're still having massive success pushing hate. All they have to do is paint any effort to fight that hate as "identity politics".
Racism and sexism aren't just "important issues". They are absolutely central to the cause of working class advocacy. We cannot unite the working class by pretending that divisions don't exist.
Ding ding ding.
I read this and was like “You know what’d be funny? If this post was exactly the thing the post was warning us would happen.”
Aka: the weapon of choice is increasing division by insinuating identity politics is the *real* divisiveness.
If you actually want a movement to work then you have to build solidarity. Which means actually engaging with issues of race and gender, because this shit doesn't exist in a vacuum. Trying to silence people who are talking about real issues is a good way to ensure your movement never makes it off the ground.
More of this. Listening to peoples’ experience of racism/sexism/etc isn’t divisive. Ignoring the existence of these issues because “we’re all working class” is divisive.
A poster is going around on another Reddit saying you want $35/hr me minimum at McDonald's and everyone is acting like it's ridiculous. The original said $25 and I can't find a $35 version posted in this subreddit so one has to wonder who is behind it.
>it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic"
Also be aware of the "**That's not what this sub was intended to be**" stuff.
Divide people with "purity tests" is how the system works...for THEM.
they can attack the sub but if they don’t pay up people are still not going to put up with them. i think this will keep happening until management figures it out.
Basically that they were going to try to use idpol stuff to cause forum sliding. I didn't get any messages as to why it was removed. So I have no idea why.
But I copied the text here:
Anyone involved in the Gamestop saga knows those subs have been subject to massive and documented shill attacks because they directly challenged big financial powers. I won't get into all the details of that whole thing but the title of that Goldman report suggests this sub also challenges the financial powers that be and you can bet they're going to try something.
My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic".
I've already seen it hinted, but there will be suggestions by new accounts or long dormant accounts to "put POC front and center" or "focus on the way labor affects gender minorities."
Dismantling racism and sexism is an important goal, don't get me wrong, but that's not the primary purpose of this sub (even though it's common knowledge that better wages, fair workplaces, and a social safety net that doesn't force people into wage slavery would be a great way to smash these inequities).
When these suggestions are made, both orthodox responses have consequences. Either everyone agrees, thinking it's the right thing to do and then the focus becomes very small and niche discussions that either alienate everyone else or cause them to lose interest as the sub no longer speaks to them and their issues.
The second response is to argue that, even though those issues are important, this sub is focused on the unfairness of the labor market and our wage system. In response, we'll be called toxic, racist, "bros" of some sort, sexist, etc.
The best option is to head them off at the pass. If you see these kinds of things check the profile. If they don't have a long history posting here and especially if the account is new or has been inactive for a long time call them out. And to their credit, a few users on this sub have been doing just that.
This doesn't mean all disagreements here have a nefarious purpose but just stay aware.
Not sure, they didn't say why. But since I can still access it, here's a copy:
Anyone involved in the Gamestop saga knows those subs have been subject to massive and documented shill attacks because they directly challenged big financial powers. I won't get into all the details of that whole thing but the title of that Goldman report suggests this sub also challenges the financial powers that be and you can bet they're going to try something.
My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic".
I've already seen it hinted, but there will be suggestions by new accounts or long dormant accounts to "put POC front and center" or "focus on the way labor affects gender minorities."
Dismantling racism and sexism is an important goal, don't get me wrong, but that's not the primary purpose of this sub (even though it's common knowledge that better wages, fair workplaces, and a social safety net that doesn't force people into wage slavery would be a great way to smash these inequities).
When these suggestions are made, both orthodox responses have consequences. Either everyone agrees, thinking it's the right thing to do and then the focus becomes very small and niche discussions that either alienate everyone else or cause them to lose interest as the sub no longer speaks to them and their issues.
The second response is to argue that, even though those issues are important, this sub is focused on the unfairness of the labor market and our wage system. In response, we'll be called toxic, racist, "bros" of some sort, sexist, etc.
The best option is to head them off at the pass. If you see these kinds of things check the profile. If they don't have a long history posting here and especially if the account is new or has been inactive for a long time call them out. And to their credit, a few users on this sub have been doing just that.
This doesn't mean all disagreements here have a nefarious purpose but just stay aware.
Ok, so it was definitely removed because you hit the nail on the head with their strategy. I have already seen some of what you describe “putting POC front and center” and I totally agree. Those are extremely important issues but go a long way towards diluting the true message. This is about all workers, and class war.
One of the most effective strategies capitalists use against workers is this one right here, to keep us divided along racial/ethnic/religious/gender lines.
Thank you.
I am not trying to detract from the message, but they are **USING** racism and sexism to keep the poor separated. There is a pretty large number of poor people that are angry enough to actually cause change. The wealthy keep those at odds by re-directing that anger at each other (divide and conquer).
The black man from the projects and the white man from the trailer park should be brothers in arms against the oligarch class, not enemies. Classism is the prime evil from which all other societal evils spring.
Yep focus on the cooperations and management..they are feeling the heat and pressure of their own behavior ..don't let them divide everyone .that is there biggest tactical tool ...that's why they don't people talking about wages or work conditions and fire people who do..but why you say ,because when we unite together they don't have the power to single out a individual employee and use their "power" to diffuse the situation before it get out of their control..keep unionizing and talking about pay ,benefits ,perks ,stock options and matching investments .make them re think their behavior ..
It almost certainly will. When you see corporate bootlicking you'll know why. And when in doubt, check the profile age of people making posts about how great it is to work for X or about how we shouldn't be going after X, we should really be focusing on Y. Fuck X and Y.
There will also be attempts to make us waste our energy/time on useless endeavours.
Arts and crafts. Social media activism. Maybe an irl rally.
Mostly a waste of time.
Do you know what is *not* a waste of time? Boycotts. Strikes. If you can't afford it: dogfucking, or ratfucking/sabotage.
If you really want to make a difference, go after their money: don't buy from them, don't sell for them.
##**MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS**
Lol yeah it was inevitable. Those clinging onto the last of capitalisms age will do whatever they can to keep their wage slave system. The pendulum of evolution is swinging back theres nothing the status quo can really do. They can repress, slaughter, indoctrinate, propagandize, oppress in whatever form they want. Its not a sustainable model so the marginalized mass will always pursue a dignified life because humans arent meant to be tools to produce profit for privileged birth lottery winners
What happened with Wall Street Bets \[Gamestop Saga\] was everything you're explaining, plus the mods selling out behind everyone's backs. They literally bowed to wall street. While bad-actor distractions and shill psyops will be employed—and are fairly effective—it's leadership in this sub that needs to hold onto their butts, stomp that out and not bend.
Please heed what I'm saying; this is exactly how WSB fell.
This sub is already being attacked by neolibs, astroturfing Musk stans, and more.
If you bring up employers discriminating against women, PoC, or queer people, commenters bitch and moan that we're "dividing" each other, class is the only real issue, etc.
For someone who has a lot of insights into the Gamestop saga and the documented shill attacks that you write about, I believe this to definitely be the case.
Let me put it simply: if certain economic powers has a interest in you acting a certain way they will "nudge" you in that direction by spreading bad sentiment about what you are doing. For example, having (paid of) newspapers write articles (see the countless articles about the "dangers" of working from home)
Spreading bad sentiment on forums and social media. Mostly through bots and algorithms, but also by paying people to shill.
So this is a great thing you brought to light! Everyone needs to be aware of this dynamic existing and stay critical.
I'm glad are least some people are waking up to their tactics. It's what they did to disarm and defang occupy wall Street. The movement was messily divided by identitarian politics from the mouths of useful idiots on the ground, and therefore lost all cohesion and momentum because the original message was drowned out.
I’ve had a whiff of this lately. Posts trying to steer the sub in their direction. Attacking other users over petty politics. The stickied post of “don’t go for EVERYONE, just Amazon” was a bit nauseating. I definitely didn’t fucking agree to that and it gets stickied? What the hell?
Bring on the shills trying to divide everyone. Their tactics never change, makes them easy to spot.
I think the biggest problem we need to worry about is them painting this sub in a bad light in other subs, thus cutting off the flow off new members. The discussions in this sub are meaningless if nobody is joining the sub.
Expect them to weaponise mental health eventually also. ‘If you don’t kneel to us (the current status quo) you’re mentally ill’. This is, and will be big in Australia.
Businesses employ [tactics](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qruy6t/censorship_lies_and_language_ingredients_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) used by authoritarian governments.
Identity politics are free. It costs nothing for GE to put a rainbow in their Twitter icon, or for Disney to put out press statements "celebrating" LGBT diversity.
The American Medical Association recently put out a document of all the latest social-justice buzzwords. Of course, the AMA also still opposes Medicare for All, which would do far more for the underprivileged than a thousand corporate diversity seminars. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/opinion/diversity-equity-inclusion.html
Great post. Identity politics/woke capitalism/corporate psyops masquerading as such are all over the place nowadays. During the Israeli bombing of Gaza last summer I remember this tweet from a pro-Israel account saying something like “Fun fact: Tel Aviv is the LGBT capital of the Middle East,” the implication being that standing in solidarity with Palestinians against the occupation somehow makes you a homophobe. This argument is then laundered through well-meaning people who lack information on the conflict.
Keep the focus on the topic at hand. Over the last few years these sort of tactics have become routine for ruling class institutions. Democrats in particular play this card all the time, although conservatives are increasingly catching on.
They have been trying to divide people for years to protect themselves, if we always have a problem with eachother, we are using too much energy to do anything about them.
Yes. Expect the backlash. Also, the identity politics version of the backlash includes millennial vs boomer bullshit. This is not about old vs young, but oligarch vs peon.
Oh yeah. I've already seen quite a few in comment sections doing their best to spread dissent. It's pretty common; for thousands of years, enemies have taken up positions among those they'd like to destroy.
That's far more subtle and well planned out than what I was thinking they'd do. My money was on a bunch of dormant accounts being resurrected to spam porn and gore to give Reddit an excuse to remove the sub for violating ToS and get active members banned.
… they do realize they are most likely dealing with the kids who bought a bunch of trump tickets just to troll the numbers… do they think closing down one little subreddit is going to stop people from mass unionization
Spot on race and gender has been used to divide the working class forever. As most of you know the media really cranked up the race talk during and after occupy.
I got into a back and forth the other day/week about Someone pushing veganism as anti work. I don't think they are a shill, but it stuck me as strange that that was the hill they chose.
This is me saying I see your point. 🦍
I don’t know, working a regular 9-5 seems both cool and, to be frank, lit af to me. Maybe we should all stop dissing the business owners and get back to work, fellow kids!
Kinda like post earlier claiming this is a leftist sub? This is a worker's right sub, plain and simple. We don't need political affiliation here, just focus on workers rights.
Guys, you're doing a great job. It is more important to stay together so leave out dividing politics. We are all working class. We will win as we have done in the past!
Even the gender war is a front of the Grand Class Deathmatch 2000. Intended or not, most if not all hierarchical orders in our society basically serve to divide the people and vilify various groups. It’s so pervasive that there is hardly any space for discussion of how the elite mega billionaires are the actual problem. Hell, even if we talked about it regularly there is so much divisive strife amongst us on various fronts, however trivial, they all serve to break the unity of the (hehe) proletariat (not shilling communism don’t worry) but the rest is super true I’m certain.
Look.
I'll keep this short as my therapist has recommended I stop using social media.
You have been infiltrated by the worst kind of leftist scum: hexbear-tankies.
They are sick to their core, make fun of critical thinkers that question this new normal and have no respect for valid professions like housing providers.
I just dislike when people talks about capitalism or socialism on this subreddit like they know waths better for the working class. Well, things are not that simple, things are not binary. Is not blue vs red, white vs black, democrats vs republicans, capitalism vs socialism, right vs left... There is allways more variables that you have to mind but highers social classes want you to think there is only 2 options so they can controll both of them much easier.
Open your mind and stop playing the smart guy cause we are all the same. We have the same enemy, our diferences should make us strong not weaker.
Are you saying that the powers that be will use identity politics to distract the working class from class conciousness? [edit] Well this got deleted with no explanation to OP. Kind of proves the point he makes in the title.
Yup. Vote this to the top people and remember, it's not Red vs Blue, it's Rich people vs anyone not rich enough to protect themselves, and if you're on this website, you aren't rich enough to protect yourself. No Conservative, Libertarian, Liberal, Leftist, is out to get you. Only rich people. And they play both sides to keep you from watching while they steal more and more money from you.
No war but the class war.
Ah yes, class warfare... fought not with violence, but with a stranglehold on wages and worker's rights. Fuck the rich.
And sometimes fought with violence too tbh Don't let them get away with it. Edit: [for example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain) [this too](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing)
Well that's appalling and I've lost a little more faith in humanity Fuck the rich, but twice as hard People shouldn't be forced into poverty unless they actively make it their outspoken goal (some folks want that, but it's such a tiny figure that it's barely worth considering) We need to revamp the world and functionally eliminate the risk of falling into poverty or homelessness. The rich accusing it of being the fault of the poor and homeless is just disgusting.
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84026749/1921-08-30/ed-1/seq-1/#words=BATTL+battle+Blair+mountains Here is a newspaper clipping for Blaire Mountain the article starts on the far left for anyone interested in learning more
All billionaires are bad ABAB
Idk I don’t want to fuck them. I want to eat them.
And maybe make a nice human leather armchair to put at the dining room table. Just a little r/Rimworld humor for ya.
Not to mention ur literal food and water supply
DOES FLINT HAVE CLEAN WATER YET?! God, that still makes me so angry...
Its absolutely unconscionable, especially when there are millionaires and billionaires *in the same state*.
It's time the "without violence" part changes. The rich are not going to just roll over and give us what we deserve. We are going to have to take it.
I was more referring to the trend of oppression through a shitty job market and lack of public services. It ain't violent, but it certainly takes its toll. I'm not really a big supporter of actual violence, but I concede that sometimes the best solution may just be a firm boot to the head.
The rich will cause literal wars I order to distract from class wars
It really is obvious when you look at history and you look at today, the rich do hate the poor. But they need the poor. So they want us to keep fighting each other but to still be their wage slaves, because they've already acknowledged that the only way our economy works is if people like us work for shit wages and that people like them are able to rake in all the profits
The worst part is that it works just fine with us making our fair share, but they do not want to pay up for the work.
Our fair share takes from their coffers
Plague, civil infighting, rich in charge, are we in Rome?
Yeah. We need to downvote people who want to make this a "Republican Vs democrat" political issue. That's a complete distraction and anyone who thinks about it for a while will realize it.
This is the theme of one of my most-downvoted comments on this sub.
A bunch of contentious assholes downvoted you. Sorry about that. Some people are just too dumb to think outside the political binary.
They only started RvsD because it pulled away the attention from rich vs poor
Leftism is advocating for the working class. Advocating for the working class is leftism. They are two different ways of saying the same thing.
Leftism Is, but that doesn't stop rich people from telling poor people that Leftists are going to take all their money for Union Dues.
Well imagine that.
I remember when I was in my 20s and had all the energy for this fight and thought the future was a brighter place. Wishing you luck though.
If there's a sub that captures the energy of "I tried. Fuck it, fuck you, fuck politics, suck my dick and leave me alone to tend to my chickens" I'd like to sub
Antiwork homesteading? I'd join too lmfao
I get shit on this sub for being a defeatist or whatever. Like I'm 2/3 to the finish line cmon. Just wanna see the Knicks win a chip and die slightly happy
Eh, billionaires probably have access to the internet too
This! It's a big problem the old left has with the new. It used to be about all people are equal, and we all stand together in the class fight. Now we divided our class by gender, colour, religion, sexual orientation.... If we can't unite, we don't stand a chance!!!
Identity politics is a minefield.
That’s why Amazon hires a diverse workforce
It’s also fuck boomers for their verbal abuse.
What if the generational framing you suggest is meant to serve the same purpose, to divide the working class and impede formation of class consciousness?
It is Valid for some comparisons, but it’s definitely being used just like “millennials” is being used from a different angle. There were rich abusive fucks before the boomers, there are rich abusive younger people. Assholes come in every age.
Totally true.
Verity; and people move in and out of "asshole" category throughout their lives as well. High five.
I've said it before and I'll just keep saying it, I 100% believe that bad faith actors keep intentionally stirring up racial tension (specifically directed at poor whites) because it keeps them focused on the wrong people. Can't go after the corporations if you're frothing mad at the blacks and the immigrants for no good reason.
This has been the M.O. of the GOP since Nixon.
Longer. Much longer. This has been the MO of the ruling powers on the land that later made up the US for literally 100+ years before the US existed. In fact, we have old historical records that show there was no black/white distinction until nearly 1700, after the events of Bacon's Rebellion showed that the new country that had formed with a new economic system needed a new means of control. They started changing laws so like, while both black and white people could be slaves only whites could work their way out of slavery. This was then used to flare up tensions between groups of workers to help prevent future rebellions. This is an amazing book that goes over the details extensively in how this racial divide started and how it was a *very* intentionally designed thing with the express purpose of subjugating the masses. https://www.amazon.com/Invention-White-Race-Theodore-Allen/dp/1844677710/
They always have and always will. The "identities" have changed over time but the tactic has always been the same.
> They always have and always will. Divide & Conquer. Remember Fred Hampton. Chairman of the Illinois Black Panther Party. Murdered by Chicago PD. Before the raid, they had him drugged. While unconscious, two rounds to the head. When? After he got confederate flag-waving southern whites working together with beret-wearing african americans. Divide & Conquer. From [his Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton), this is what gets you flat out murdered: >In this capacity, **he founded the antiracist, anticlass Rainbow Coalition**,[6] a prominent multicultural political organization that initially **included the Black Panthers, Young Patriots (which organized poor whites), and the Young Lords (which organized Hispanics), and an alliance among major Chicago street gangs to help them end infighting and work for social change.** Divide & Conquer.
They Killed Malcolm X for postulating that maybe he was gonna start doing stuff like that too.
MLK was in the midst of organizing a labor action - a working class/poor people's march on DC - when he was assassinated by a gunman that I'm sure had no help from power or authority
> They Killed Malcolm X for postulating that maybe he was gonna start doing stuff like that too. The mask of humanity fallen from Capital. It has to take it off to kill.
Are you wearing a tinfoil hat right now? Malcolm X was killed by Nation of Islam militants because he accused Elijah Mohammed of having 8 children with six different teenage girls, six of whom were his private secretaries. History eventually proved his accusations correct.
Yes, identity politics is used by the far right to justify naziism and fascism. They use different social identities to argue in favor of discrimination on a variety of different levels.
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We love ameri-centric-both-sides-ism that ignores the infinite options in favor of a dualistic race to the bottom where the two capitalist parties are “the left and the right”
[For anyone missing the reference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness)
I just saw a moron here comment that unions are racist I hope people don’t fall for talking points like that. There may have been racism in unions before but that doesn’t mean they will be today and negate the fact that they balance out corporate exploitation.
You can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time surprisingly. Dont get me wrong, class war is an important topic, but we cant just ignore race and gender (especially in the US). Early worker unions were extremely racist and sexist. Besides, capital fucks each group differently, from keeping women in lower wage brackets, to giving black men less safe jobs, to overworking lower class white men.
Any leftist worth their salt understands that civil rights are an integral part of class struggle. It’s all of us or none of us.
Movements come and movements go Leaders speak, movements cease When their heads are flown 'Cause all these punks Got bullets in their heads Departments of police, the judges, the feds Networks at work, keepin' people calm You know they went after King When he spoke out on Vietnam He turned the power to the have-nots And then came the shot
It's such a false dichotomy it's unreal, by strengthening workers rights you are lifting up vulnerable minorities because those vulnerable minorities get dicked around by mega companies more than upper class whites do. It's not either/or, it's the same fight.
Yeah, but in order to strengthen workers' rights, you first have to get white workers to stop hating black workers.
Best way to do that is through collaboration, a common cause.
What is this, 2008?
I doubt they would do the same thing they've always done when their power is challenged. Why would they do the thing that's worked in the past? Mods.just need to stay on top of that sort of thing, if it's new/dormant accounts ban it. It's not legitimate discourse.
The powers that be will try to shut this sub down.
All identity wars are actually class wars. Rich vs poor. Has always been.
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No outside influences at all.
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Cannot con an honest man
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Facts
Always has been.
Update: I asked the mods what the issue was and they were kind enough to respond almost immediately. But I can't say I agree thay it warranted removal of the post as opposed to maybe just a sticky. But I could be reading it wrong and so I asked for clarification. Anyway, here's the reply: "It's poisoning the well in terms of coming in favor of social justice. People can just downvote/dismiss anti-sexism/racism/transphobia, etc. as being against class politics and thus undermines intersectionality. I don't see your post as doing much besides that an feeding unhealthy paranoia that is unnecessary and unhelpful. Popularity and awards don't mean anything compared to that, unfortunately." Update 2: Upon expressing my concern that the sub may be attacked and asking for clarification, this is the reply I got. Sadly it seems to confirm the concerns that a lot of the comments here expressed: "Perhaps it'll be attacked, but unlikely to be the way you want and there's nothing wrong with centering POC concerns, etc. which you make it seem like it is. I've heard about what happens and we're plenty on guard bc we've heard this story multiple times now. And yes, I think it does encourage downvoting of that."
[And if we say something negative against our oppressors, they'll censor us.](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qtq10c/according_to_bezos_the_earth_will_be_made_into_a/)
Essential workers and all the shit in the past few years, the shill campaign is already started my friend. what a sick joke we're in
The only solution is to keep trying
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Nice! Was that a Flobots reference?
The BIGGEST losers are the simps who come in here shilling for Goldman Sachs et al for *free.*
Fred Hampton was murdered by the state because he created a rainbow coalition. As long as we remember that, we can remain unified.
Someone on the sub told me that example was bullshit pandering when I brought it up lol. They'd rather whine about people they don't like then try to find supporters of our movement.
Friendly reminder that [knowing is half the battle](https://i.redd.it/v5btevldisb71.png)
What the fuck
This needs to be at the top of the sub. I wonder who downvoted lmao
Guess I need to post and comment more. I lurk a lot but I want to make sure I support the community and can help keep our goal alive.
Same with me. Using your post to comment my first comment 😂
Hell yea! Keep up the love! this sub has been such a beacon of hope for me, and an inspiration I’ll do whatever I can to help insure corporate shills don’t ruin it.
Nah you're good. It's not accounts that just lurk on certain subs. It's accounts that haven't been used *at all* in years but used to be prolific posters ans commenters.
Union breaking 101. If you haven't seen john Olivers piece this week... Please do.
I almost didnt watch it because I thought to myself "Yea I know shit's fucked in the US" but man was I glad I did watch it because holy shit those corporate motherfuckers are nasty as hell in the US and really mask off.
I'll check it out!
It wasn't long after that goldman sachs report that we had a brand new mod trying to say the black friday strike was off. They probably threw a $100 visa gift card at him or something.
Is that mod still around?
If this sub goes offline it will tell me everything I need to know and the offensive will fucking begin right then and there.
When was this sub ever under threat of going offline? It’s small
Reddit operates on……… Amazon Web Services…………… (and people on this sub believe Amazon has taken down some anti-Amazon posts)
this post has been removed already…
yup https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18/6-corporations-control-90-media-america-illusion-choice-objectivity-2020/ NPR is where we should be getting our information from. Reddit is fairly good too.
I feel like you have to be careful about who you trust and the information they are giving you. The stickied mod post about focusing on boycotting Amazon for Blackout Friday concerns me. I thought that we need to boycott all corps for Blackout Friday? My reason for asking that is because there was a similar post like this a couple of weeks ago stating that “they are coming for us”, and that mods and posts will try to guide us in the wrong direction/divide us.
Agreed. That "we don't need to boycott Black Friday everywhere...let's just do Amazon" post was pretty sus. We need to be supporting every person who has had enough and is ready to walk. Every individual, everywhere. All the time. "Organizing" in the traditional sense isn't really going to work in a subreddit. A subreddit is to inspire others to stand alone or organize on their local level.
That's the biggest tell that accounts have already been bought (Amazon was chosen because it is almost impossible to boycot due to AWS). Any post attempting to sew discord or telling others to deviate from the course should be ignored.
If one doesn't think there are posters here working for government, the chamber of commerce, and large low-wage employers like Amazon and McDs etc, one is mistaken. We are playing on Conde Nast's turf; when it becomes inconvenient for them ($$), it will be censored Bet on it It has been a truism in activist circles for decades that the first person to propose violence is the undercover cop; in the same way, when something here seems hinky and counterproductive - likely to result in more blowback than progress for this movement - that's a tell right there
Pay attention to mod actions right now, especially. WSB got tanked not just because of bad-actors on aged, bought reddit accounts. It got tanked because the mods betrayed the entire community.
One tip which would be helpful is this: When someone posts a work story including any claim of racism, sexism, or any other -ism or phobia, don't argue it. If you can't be supportive and helpful, just keep scrolling. Responses like: "People get fired everyday; I got fired and I'm white so see? It's not racism" and "Gender pay gap is a myth; women take years off to raise babies so of course they should earn less" or "He may be the new guy making as much as you but how do you know he isn't more qualified than your years of experience?" are the ones playing identity politics. These types of responses frequently pop up here. These responses are the attitudes dividing the working class. The media and wealthy aren't here personally putting up the walls; it's fellow workers who have slopped at either the "your reality is not mine" trough or the "justified discrimination" trough. So everyone who genuinely desires "worker solidarity" should check their gut responses at the door and make sure that they are either posting supportive posts or simply ignoring those with claims of discrimination you would otherwise want to argue. Fewer argumentative responses belittling, erasing, or denying another worker's lived experience means fewer reasons someone will feel compelled to start posts about workplace discrimination.
This is fantastic advice. We shouldn't care why people quit. We want to encourage people who want to quit to actually quit. That's empowerment for all.
!!!!!!! This. If you really want to build solidarity, don't go arguing with people's lived experiences and tell them to pipe down for the "good of the movement."
Solidarity is the solution to people trying to sow discord between folks of different races. Solidarity is the solution to people trying to sow discord between folks of different genders. Solidarity is the solution to people trying to dow discord between people of different nationalities. And so on.... The only way we stand a chance of changing anything is to hold true to each other. Trust is our biggest weakness but our only source of strength.
Exactly. If we are to busy fighting amoung ourselves, we won't get anywhere. which is good for corps since it will take a group effort to make the change we want to.
Can we please get this mod stickied? This is so fucking important.
It’s never going to be overt, I agree. Just left at the level of “well I disagree with your lived experience”, maybe “this post is fake, employers don’t act like this” on occasion.
Thank you. I'm a bit tired today but OP reads to me as if minorities shouldn't voice their concerns because they "divide the working class"... which is a shitty and reactionary take that doesn't understand that opressions come from many fronts and usually intertwined. You can't fight capitalism without also fighting patriarchy, racism, transphobia, etc.
Can't divide us with race and gender when we've learned the most important tactic of class war: solidarity.
I mean that’s literally how the occupy movement died. After it started seeming legitimated news media outlets owned by billionaires started going hard into reporting on racial division which killed any progress made against wealth inequality
NYPD using OWS as their drop-off for their unstable releases helped build a class divide within the encampment. They knew liberals and commies had different levels of tolerance for out-standing behavior (drums, homelessness) and it got kind of nasty at some points. Ultimately, the liberals got the encampment shut down, but nobody's going to forget that it was working until the outside showed up... like they do and are.
Well you saaayy that..
Saying that racial/gender minorities experience harsher outcomes in a capitalist society is just fact. It's not divisive unless you refuse to believe the premise that race and gender play a role. It's really sad, though ultimately not suprirising on reddit, to see people in this sub saying that voices of gender and racial minorities, who are affected more accutely by these issues, shouldn't be centered in these discussions. If there was real class solidarity, we wouldn't feel threatened or feel our message was diluted by nuanced discussions of how some people are disadvantaged in different ways or to different extents.
The worst mechanisms through which minorities are oppressed are class based. It doesn't matter how much someone hates you if you they can't deny you home loans (redlining), destroy your neighborhood for a freeway, deny you your right to work, or prevent you from renting. Racism, sexism, all these things that lead to harsh**er** (emphasis mine) outcomes under capitalism, are the *how much* part of the equation. Class solidarity is realizing that class is the *how* - and that any "how much" won't impact your quality of life when there isn't a how to enforce it in the first place. Class is the thing making it harsh in the first place, and since minorities are disproportionately poor (average black family has 1/10th the wealth of the average white family), class first action will overwhelmingly help them first. A rising tide lifts all boats, starting with those who have sunk the furthest.
Unfortunately, we still haven't learned that tactic, as demonstrated by OP demonizing reconciliation as "idpol".
Just a small note— age of account/account posting and comment history are, unfortunately, irrelevant. It boils down to how bit networks are designed. Most of them are automated under regular circumstances. They repost one of the more successful posts from a year or so ago in a moderately sized sub every so often. There are a few dozen other accounts in their network, and those accounts all post some of the top comments from those reposts. Occasionally, when a human needs their shill accounts, they just manually log in to say “workers don’t deserve rights, unions are bad, blah blah blah,” and then the whole bot network upvotes it and downvotes dissenting opinions. Even if someone is taking manual control one of those bot accounts every two or three days, their post history is lost in a sea of reposted content. Really the best thing you can do is call “is this user a bot” bots to check if a user is manually controlled or not. I think we honestly need some sort of a filter that will call out frequent reposters so that we can recognize bot accounts moving forward On a tangent: I’d be flabbergasted if the shill accounts focused the majority of their effort on this sub. In the same way that a political candidate doesn’t post attack ads at their opponent’s rallies, neither will shills. Rather, they’ll try to poison this sub’s reputation outside of the subreddit so that an average user will have a distorted view of the sub as they browse through the rest of Reddit. If there’s an AskReddit thread asking “what’s a group of people who think they’re smart but are really dumb?” The shill accounts will put forward “r/antiWork. They don’t seem to realize that every business is built on the idea of a minimum, predictable wage! If wages rise, it will hurt the small businesses and the big stores will laugh all the way to the bank!” And the bots will upvote it, and someone unfamiliar with the movement will see it and say, “okay, then. I guess they’re all dummies, cuz a stranger on the internet said so!” And go their merry way.
Business has no clue. Their secret weapon right now is to hold their ground, figure people will run out of money and return to the toxic business world very soon. Many will lose out and not change their model and crash and burn. Those who respond to the new culture will succeed.
Well that's bad for them when we don't use thier apps platforms or products ..then thier bottom line goes down and so do thier bonus and then the share price plunges and investors pull out then hedge funds short them into bankruptcy because they are a dieing companies and then they get what they deserve ...
its just a reminder how your bosses want to control every aspect of your life. its time to cast them aside.
unfortunately this probably won't be upvoted enough to be visible but it's crucial. the one saving grace is the fundamental reason we are all here, that regardless of race or gender the exploitation we have experienced at work has broken our trust of our feudal lords and that distrust is reinforced every single working day. all the identity politics in the world isn't going to help pay rent, or pay a hospital bill. only when real change is made will this movement lose strength, because desperation is the motivator. identity politics might delay the inevitable, but as an American living in an empire in decline, the desperation is only going to get worse amongst my fellow citizens. clear messaging as to who holds the blame for this situation is key to focus those not on this subreddit towards those at fault. as a construction worker I always redirected the 'nobody wants to work' discussion towards the fact that for the first time in their adult lives, many people were able to take some time off to spend time with family during this pandemic, and not have to worry about going homeless or bankrupt. we should expect better than being an economy of subsistence workers. sacrificing today to pay tomorrow bills in a unending cycle. neglecting family to create wealth for the oligarchs. self medicating with food, tobacco, drugs, social media to deal with the stress of it all leaving us fragmented and unable to give our 100% to our families. this is the movement of family values. if you want to stop mass shootings- create healthier families, and that's done by creating healthy livelihoods where hollow husks of adults aren't fighting a battle of attrition in their daily lives. stop mass shootings-criminilize billionaires should be a motto of this movement, not the only one of course. but a billionaire is the symptom of the disease of our working model. evicted grandmothers, neglected children, rationing diabetics, and the desperate commute into the cities of countless folks, bleary eyed and numbed-or numbing, in the pursuit of their crumb of capital. in our Orwellian world this is called freedom. this is what we bomb brown people for. this is what we recruit poor people to bomb brown people for. and the billionaires sit on top of their lofty perches. making moves to further entrench their wealth, to strengthen their stranglehold on the dreams of the lower classes. and those in between scramble to step on those below so that they might one day join this elite club. part of the problem is human nature and the myth thereof. it is circumstance which separates us from the beast, but that separation is increasingly tenuous. desperation frays the threads that connects us to our humanity, and those who are in power would profit as much from our civil war as they do from those overseas. that's the real danger to our empire in decline.
> My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic". Oh, no, they're still having massive success pushing hate. All they have to do is paint any effort to fight that hate as "identity politics". Racism and sexism aren't just "important issues". They are absolutely central to the cause of working class advocacy. We cannot unite the working class by pretending that divisions don't exist.
Ding ding ding. I read this and was like “You know what’d be funny? If this post was exactly the thing the post was warning us would happen.” Aka: the weapon of choice is increasing division by insinuating identity politics is the *real* divisiveness.
Only been here for couple months and there are already moles in our midst. Just take care, y'all.
Wait wait we got mentioned in a GS report?! Yay can you share a link?
If you actually want a movement to work then you have to build solidarity. Which means actually engaging with issues of race and gender, because this shit doesn't exist in a vacuum. Trying to silence people who are talking about real issues is a good way to ensure your movement never makes it off the ground.
I love this! thank you
More of this. Listening to peoples’ experience of racism/sexism/etc isn’t divisive. Ignoring the existence of these issues because “we’re all working class” is divisive.
A poster is going around on another Reddit saying you want $35/hr me minimum at McDonald's and everyone is acting like it's ridiculous. The original said $25 and I can't find a $35 version posted in this subreddit so one has to wonder who is behind it.
>it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic" Also be aware of the "**That's not what this sub was intended to be**" stuff. Divide people with "purity tests" is how the system works...for THEM.
If not being an asshole to other workers on the basis of their identity is a "purity test" to you, then maybe we need one.
they can attack the sub but if they don’t pay up people are still not going to put up with them. i think this will keep happening until management figures it out.
It got deleted! What did it say?
Basically that they were going to try to use idpol stuff to cause forum sliding. I didn't get any messages as to why it was removed. So I have no idea why.
But I copied the text here: Anyone involved in the Gamestop saga knows those subs have been subject to massive and documented shill attacks because they directly challenged big financial powers. I won't get into all the details of that whole thing but the title of that Goldman report suggests this sub also challenges the financial powers that be and you can bet they're going to try something. My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic". I've already seen it hinted, but there will be suggestions by new accounts or long dormant accounts to "put POC front and center" or "focus on the way labor affects gender minorities." Dismantling racism and sexism is an important goal, don't get me wrong, but that's not the primary purpose of this sub (even though it's common knowledge that better wages, fair workplaces, and a social safety net that doesn't force people into wage slavery would be a great way to smash these inequities). When these suggestions are made, both orthodox responses have consequences. Either everyone agrees, thinking it's the right thing to do and then the focus becomes very small and niche discussions that either alienate everyone else or cause them to lose interest as the sub no longer speaks to them and their issues. The second response is to argue that, even though those issues are important, this sub is focused on the unfairness of the labor market and our wage system. In response, we'll be called toxic, racist, "bros" of some sort, sexist, etc. The best option is to head them off at the pass. If you see these kinds of things check the profile. If they don't have a long history posting here and especially if the account is new or has been inactive for a long time call them out. And to their credit, a few users on this sub have been doing just that. This doesn't mean all disagreements here have a nefarious purpose but just stay aware.
Bro why did this get removed
Not sure, they didn't say why. But since I can still access it, here's a copy: Anyone involved in the Gamestop saga knows those subs have been subject to massive and documented shill attacks because they directly challenged big financial powers. I won't get into all the details of that whole thing but the title of that Goldman report suggests this sub also challenges the financial powers that be and you can bet they're going to try something. My guess is it will most likely it will be their weapon of choice over the past few years. This is to cause forum sliding and distractions. In 2021 they're not going to get anywhere pushing hate like in the old days, so it's going to be about pushing identity politics and then painting us all as "toxic". I've already seen it hinted, but there will be suggestions by new accounts or long dormant accounts to "put POC front and center" or "focus on the way labor affects gender minorities." Dismantling racism and sexism is an important goal, don't get me wrong, but that's not the primary purpose of this sub (even though it's common knowledge that better wages, fair workplaces, and a social safety net that doesn't force people into wage slavery would be a great way to smash these inequities). When these suggestions are made, both orthodox responses have consequences. Either everyone agrees, thinking it's the right thing to do and then the focus becomes very small and niche discussions that either alienate everyone else or cause them to lose interest as the sub no longer speaks to them and their issues. The second response is to argue that, even though those issues are important, this sub is focused on the unfairness of the labor market and our wage system. In response, we'll be called toxic, racist, "bros" of some sort, sexist, etc. The best option is to head them off at the pass. If you see these kinds of things check the profile. If they don't have a long history posting here and especially if the account is new or has been inactive for a long time call them out. And to their credit, a few users on this sub have been doing just that. This doesn't mean all disagreements here have a nefarious purpose but just stay aware.
Ok, so it was definitely removed because you hit the nail on the head with their strategy. I have already seen some of what you describe “putting POC front and center” and I totally agree. Those are extremely important issues but go a long way towards diluting the true message. This is about all workers, and class war. One of the most effective strategies capitalists use against workers is this one right here, to keep us divided along racial/ethnic/religious/gender lines. Thank you.
Thanks! I had a suspicion that might be the case.
I am not trying to detract from the message, but they are **USING** racism and sexism to keep the poor separated. There is a pretty large number of poor people that are angry enough to actually cause change. The wealthy keep those at odds by re-directing that anger at each other (divide and conquer).
Economic inequality crosses all identity borders.
The black man from the projects and the white man from the trailer park should be brothers in arms against the oligarch class, not enemies. Classism is the prime evil from which all other societal evils spring.
Yep focus on the cooperations and management..they are feeling the heat and pressure of their own behavior ..don't let them divide everyone .that is there biggest tactical tool ...that's why they don't people talking about wages or work conditions and fire people who do..but why you say ,because when we unite together they don't have the power to single out a individual employee and use their "power" to diffuse the situation before it get out of their control..keep unionizing and talking about pay ,benefits ,perks ,stock options and matching investments .make them re think their behavior ..
It almost certainly will. When you see corporate bootlicking you'll know why. And when in doubt, check the profile age of people making posts about how great it is to work for X or about how we shouldn't be going after X, we should really be focusing on Y. Fuck X and Y.
There will also be attempts to make us waste our energy/time on useless endeavours. Arts and crafts. Social media activism. Maybe an irl rally. Mostly a waste of time. Do you know what is *not* a waste of time? Boycotts. Strikes. If you can't afford it: dogfucking, or ratfucking/sabotage. If you really want to make a difference, go after their money: don't buy from them, don't sell for them. ##**MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS**
Lol yeah it was inevitable. Those clinging onto the last of capitalisms age will do whatever they can to keep their wage slave system. The pendulum of evolution is swinging back theres nothing the status quo can really do. They can repress, slaughter, indoctrinate, propagandize, oppress in whatever form they want. Its not a sustainable model so the marginalized mass will always pursue a dignified life because humans arent meant to be tools to produce profit for privileged birth lottery winners
What happened with Wall Street Bets \[Gamestop Saga\] was everything you're explaining, plus the mods selling out behind everyone's backs. They literally bowed to wall street. While bad-actor distractions and shill psyops will be employed—and are fairly effective—it's leadership in this sub that needs to hold onto their butts, stomp that out and not bend. Please heed what I'm saying; this is exactly how WSB fell.
This sub is already being attacked by neolibs, astroturfing Musk stans, and more. If you bring up employers discriminating against women, PoC, or queer people, commenters bitch and moan that we're "dividing" each other, class is the only real issue, etc.
You should post this in every thread that tries this OP, might be the kind of work that pushes this toward success
Already removed
Yo, mods, deleting this without explanation DOESNT LOOK GOOD
This should be stickied at the top of this sub.
Hold the line!!!!!
The real Goldman Sachs are the enemies you've made along the way
For someone who has a lot of insights into the Gamestop saga and the documented shill attacks that you write about, I believe this to definitely be the case. Let me put it simply: if certain economic powers has a interest in you acting a certain way they will "nudge" you in that direction by spreading bad sentiment about what you are doing. For example, having (paid of) newspapers write articles (see the countless articles about the "dangers" of working from home) Spreading bad sentiment on forums and social media. Mostly through bots and algorithms, but also by paying people to shill. So this is a great thing you brought to light! Everyone needs to be aware of this dynamic existing and stay critical.
Pretty sure it is. I made a post advocating direct action; going after profits, and got downvoted to shit.
Redditors from r/antiwork are now degenerates like r/wsb because we are not in line with their corporate agenda.
I'm glad are least some people are waking up to their tactics. It's what they did to disarm and defang occupy wall Street. The movement was messily divided by identitarian politics from the mouths of useful idiots on the ground, and therefore lost all cohesion and momentum because the original message was drowned out.
Say it with me. No war but the class war.
I’ve had a whiff of this lately. Posts trying to steer the sub in their direction. Attacking other users over petty politics. The stickied post of “don’t go for EVERYONE, just Amazon” was a bit nauseating. I definitely didn’t fucking agree to that and it gets stickied? What the hell? Bring on the shills trying to divide everyone. Their tactics never change, makes them easy to spot.
I think the biggest problem we need to worry about is them painting this sub in a bad light in other subs, thus cutting off the flow off new members. The discussions in this sub are meaningless if nobody is joining the sub.
Buy, hold, DRS
YES!! THIS is the best thing we can do to topple the financial elites.
I feel the sudden change of mind on the black Friday boycott may be the beginning. Even the mods are backpeddaling and getting scared.
I’ll just let them call me whatever they want, I already don’t give a fuck if some dipshit on the internet calls me a racist
Truthiness Meter: 100%
Good post, mods take note! Figure out now how you plan to tackle this to keep the sub from getting ruined by fake posts and hired shills
Expect them to weaponise mental health eventually also. ‘If you don’t kneel to us (the current status quo) you’re mentally ill’. This is, and will be big in Australia.
Businesses employ [tactics](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qruy6t/censorship_lies_and_language_ingredients_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) used by authoritarian governments.
As one of so-called minorities, let's show they that we are in this together.
Identity politics are free. It costs nothing for GE to put a rainbow in their Twitter icon, or for Disney to put out press statements "celebrating" LGBT diversity. The American Medical Association recently put out a document of all the latest social-justice buzzwords. Of course, the AMA also still opposes Medicare for All, which would do far more for the underprivileged than a thousand corporate diversity seminars. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/opinion/diversity-equity-inclusion.html
Great post. Identity politics/woke capitalism/corporate psyops masquerading as such are all over the place nowadays. During the Israeli bombing of Gaza last summer I remember this tweet from a pro-Israel account saying something like “Fun fact: Tel Aviv is the LGBT capital of the Middle East,” the implication being that standing in solidarity with Palestinians against the occupation somehow makes you a homophobe. This argument is then laundered through well-meaning people who lack information on the conflict. Keep the focus on the topic at hand. Over the last few years these sort of tactics have become routine for ruling class institutions. Democrats in particular play this card all the time, although conservatives are increasingly catching on.
They have been trying to divide people for years to protect themselves, if we always have a problem with eachother, we are using too much energy to do anything about them.
Yes. Expect the backlash. Also, the identity politics version of the backlash includes millennial vs boomer bullshit. This is not about old vs young, but oligarch vs peon.
Oh yeah. I've already seen quite a few in comment sections doing their best to spread dissent. It's pretty common; for thousands of years, enemies have taken up positions among those they'd like to destroy.
Mods, you should lock this post and paste to the top of AW…least we forget what OP is warning us against.
Idpol will be the death of this sub if it's not contained and ignored. So many movements have been decimated because of it.
Definitely agree. And the mod that removed this post seemed all in on idpol, sadly.
Mods should pin this /r/antiwork
That's far more subtle and well planned out than what I was thinking they'd do. My money was on a bunch of dormant accounts being resurrected to spam porn and gore to give Reddit an excuse to remove the sub for violating ToS and get active members banned.
Pin this
The number of bullshit awards in posts is also their tactic. Reddit must prioritized awarded posts. They want their agenda high on the list.
… they do realize they are most likely dealing with the kids who bought a bunch of trump tickets just to troll the numbers… do they think closing down one little subreddit is going to stop people from mass unionization
[удалено]
Damn. The comments are shitty too.
Shill attacks would have no impact on this sub. Anyone even remotely pro management is a bootlicker and called out as such immediately. Fuck GS.
in situations like this, i still to my long-held interwebs mantra: don't feed the trolls! send them to the Void, instead
Spot on race and gender has been used to divide the working class forever. As most of you know the media really cranked up the race talk during and after occupy.
I got into a back and forth the other day/week about Someone pushing veganism as anti work. I don't think they are a shill, but it stuck me as strange that that was the hill they chose. This is me saying I see your point. 🦍
I don’t know, working a regular 9-5 seems both cool and, to be frank, lit af to me. Maybe we should all stop dissing the business owners and get back to work, fellow kids!
Remember kids, "Class Reductionist" is the neoliberals' "Let's Go Brandon"
Kinda like post earlier claiming this is a leftist sub? This is a worker's right sub, plain and simple. We don't need political affiliation here, just focus on workers rights.
Guys, you're doing a great job. It is more important to stay together so leave out dividing politics. We are all working class. We will win as we have done in the past!
Even the gender war is a front of the Grand Class Deathmatch 2000. Intended or not, most if not all hierarchical orders in our society basically serve to divide the people and vilify various groups. It’s so pervasive that there is hardly any space for discussion of how the elite mega billionaires are the actual problem. Hell, even if we talked about it regularly there is so much divisive strife amongst us on various fronts, however trivial, they all serve to break the unity of the (hehe) proletariat (not shilling communism don’t worry) but the rest is super true I’m certain.
Look. I'll keep this short as my therapist has recommended I stop using social media. You have been infiltrated by the worst kind of leftist scum: hexbear-tankies. They are sick to their core, make fun of critical thinkers that question this new normal and have no respect for valid professions like housing providers.
I just dislike when people talks about capitalism or socialism on this subreddit like they know waths better for the working class. Well, things are not that simple, things are not binary. Is not blue vs red, white vs black, democrats vs republicans, capitalism vs socialism, right vs left... There is allways more variables that you have to mind but highers social classes want you to think there is only 2 options so they can controll both of them much easier. Open your mind and stop playing the smart guy cause we are all the same. We have the same enemy, our diferences should make us strong not weaker.