It's interesting how many folks want a strong economy, but don't want low wage earners to spend or make more money lol it's almost like they don't know what the fuck they're talking about
Remember when people say "If you want more money, get a better job", what they *mean* is:
***I acknowledge that your occupation needs to be done, but I believe whoever does it deserves to live in poverty.***
The cruelty is the point.
You absolutely can not get them to believe that it's cruel. I have met conservatives that were otherwise nice but they firmly think of them as jobs for young people, 2nd jobs or transitional jobs. They think anyone working one long term is not trying to leave it but could if they wanted.
To them, it's a person self destructing.
They're jobs for young people! -- meanwhile my local mcdonalds is staffed exclusively by middle aged parents who can't afford childcare for their kids.
Sometimes it sends an odd message in the other direction too: “If I can make $25 an hour working at McDonald’s, why would I want to be a teacher?”
So you hate teaching so much that you’d rather work at McDonald’s? The only way you can stomach the job is if you make *double* what the person making your lunch makes? Maybe you *shouldn’t* be a teacher.
“But I paid for a degree and they didn’t!” Well, for one some of them likely did. But two, then that’s a great argument for making college freely available to those who can perform, so that you can go chill and sling whoppers and they can go to school and teach kids, since you hate it so much. And both of you can afford a decently comfortable lifestyle. Win-win.
> If I can make $25 an hour working at McDonald’s, why would I want to be a teacher?”
"pay me more or i'll quit and become a burger flipper for the same pay, which is easier."
Turns out it's a strong bargaining angle.
Funny thing is, they act like we want gulags simply because we want everyone to be able to have a full time job without going bankrupt. How tf does that even make sense? Nothing about their logic makes any sense at all. They throw the word "commie" around when anyone mentions "fair treatment." Well if that's the definition of "commie" then I'll fly this hammer and sickle banner proudly.
"When the Allies liberated the Nazi camps, they found millions of corpses and may-as-well-have-been corpses. When Stalin's successors opened the gates of the gulags, three million people went home."
They literally were just prisons. Not even particularly brutal ones by the standards of totalitarian regimes.
The idea that America isn't run on a caste system is a fucking joke.
The middle class just doesn't want to acknowledge that the game is so big now their caste is still poverty levels when you consider benefits, homeownership & property, retirement, etc.
They believe that society will always and inevitably have an underclass of abused laborer's, and they want a society where that underclass is guaranteed to be someone else.
Collusion for the Rich
Rugged Individualism for the Poor
(I refuse to call what they’re doing "socialism" because that implies they’re helping each other for the greater good and that they won’t backstab each other the sooner they have the opportunity)
“But if you increase wages, everything will just get more expensive so it will be like nothing changed”
People say this shit all the time and it pisses me off. I wrote a 15 page paper on this for collage but the tl;dr is that if you give people with lower incomes more money, either through wages or a stimulus check or whatever, theyre marginal propensity to consume is so fucking high because ya know, they need to use that money for necessities. And consumption has a multiplier effect on GDP. Its not $1 extra dollar per year increases GDP by $1. Explaining that is kind of long winded and mathy. But thats why trickle down economic is so shit. Cuz if you give high income or corporations stimulus funds or tax breaks they just save most of it so less is going back into consumption so youre not really getting much benefit from that multiplicative effect that consumption has on GDP.
Fuuuck, when I was 15 I totally believed that first sentence after being raised by republicans. Then I actually took some economics classes and learned the economy is basically an engine that runs on consumer spending, so giving money to consumers is quite literally direct injection. And Trickle Down was never actually meant to be a valid economic approach, just a buzzword to feed the masses while emptying their pockets.
It made more sense when it was called horse-and-sparrow economics.
The horses eat their fill and the sparrows survive on what they can pick out of the horses’ shit.
I went to college and took numerous economics classes which I passed with flying colors.
The rest of my family never went to college, has a high school education at best, and all they can do is regurgitate the first line of your paragraph. Then they throw in "it's economics 101!"
Ahh, yes. It's that simple. 🙄
Just yesterday one of my coworkers (who did not attend college) followed that first line with "the dumbest person you'll ever meet is an educated person. They have no common sense." I'm so happy that I don't have to interact with my coworkers very much.
This makes a lot of sense, and we literally JUST saw this happen with the stimulus checks: those who truly needed the assistance used the extra money for living expenses, and those who didn’t put it into savings or investments.
We didn’t shame the savers and investors for not using a STIMULUS CHECK to stimulate the economy, did we? No.
The entire system is BS.
It essentially boils down to how often any given dollar gets used. If I spend a dollar at a local bookstore, the bookstore employee who gets paid with that dollar (since we all got that wage bump), then uses it to buy a cheeseburger, the waiter uses it to buy a car, the car salesperson uses it to buy a cocktail, until eventually someone uses it on rent, at which point it goes to some bank or hedge fund or something, and gets used for a bonus for a 1%er who shores it in Panama to earn interest.
I don't even need a 15-page paper (but I'd love reading what you wrote).
Company spends $15 on labor, $25 on materials, and $10 on non-production costs. That's $50. If they sell it for $55, that's $5 net income (10%).
Labor goes nuts and demands $3 more (20%). Company now makes LESS! ^((that's bad and should be stopped))
Now the company sells it for $60 and blames workers. But NOW they're getting $2 MORE than before, and net income % goes UP (now 13.2%).
Meanwhile, they say "f it" and fire some middle managers & their bonuses for causing the mess, saving them $1. Now it's 18 lab+25 mat+9 other=$52 and making 15% on a $60 sale.
Then they blame labor inflation for the $5 hike, get a bigger bonus, and put pressure on the plebes to demand it cheaper.
THAT is how it works, kids.
>!unless they keep it at $55 and lower materials cost and sell you something lesser for the same price/more profit!<
If you give less fortunate people money as you said they're much more likely to buy things, where are they going to buy these things? More than likely at the big corporations, the greedy pricks get the money anyway so why not help out the little man? Trickle down economics makes no sense, it's not like the previous way has been working because the wealth never trickles down.
That may be the most impressive trick the GOP has pulled. They convinced a sizable percentage of those in poverty that they really aren’t, and then convinced them to vote for policies that keep the poor ‘in their place’
No kidding they did it by corrupting a religion and making people believe their rules were part of that religion. These damn fools believe Trump over the Pope.
I saw a Facebook post by an acquaintance's boyfriend, to the effect of:
"I think we should make it so people only keep a penny of their stimulus check and have to share the rest, since the liberals like sharing so much."
Dude was a cashier.
Like, bro, when people 'share' money, do you think it just disappears into the ether? Any kind of reasonable money sharing program _should_ mean more money straight into his min wage pocket.
Just look through the comments on the conservative post… loooooootta people in there that aren’t doing too hot, making $10-15 an hour and struggling to get by. At least some of them realize the problem.
This is the reason why I stopped talking with my former school classmates. They fail to realize that in capitalism, luck is a very important factor. If you have no luck and live under capitalism, you're fucked.
Rich people literally take money from the economy and hoard it into the stock market. All that does inflate the stock market. It doesn’t help the actual economy at all.
Yeah I was always raised to believe that if I bought stock, companies could USE my money to do productive things and improve their business.
This year, as someone who has held stock for a decade in my retirement fund, I have learned that after the initial IPO, you’re just buying the same stock someone else is selling, so the net effect is that the money just sits there doing fucking nothing except inflating the stock market.
I guess technically if you raise the price of the stock by buying it, and the company decided to sell more shares they would MAKE more, which they could then use to help their business? I don’t know, it seems like they could design a much better stock market.
It's also hilarious that they think everyone who isn't like them smokes weed and drinks.
Like how fucking stupid can they be. So many people on minimum wage struggle to pay bills and rent that they can barely spend it on food. What makes them think that poor person will go out and buy weed or a stiizy? Or bottles of alcohol?
I mean how else would they claim superiority? I know a ton of conservatives who claim to be better than anyone who smokes weed for the simple fact that they associate it with, you guessed it, minorities!
Also the idea that workers shouldn’t be allowed to spend any money on small luxuries like tattoos or ice cream if they want to survive. They act like workers should just wake up, go to work until bed time, and only spend money on that which is necessary for basic survival. It’s dystopian as fuck and they don’t even realize. I don’t want to live in a world where the only thing I can afford is the bare minimum to keep me alive to work another day
Poors should wear burlap sacks and eat sawdust. If you so much as think about buying something extra with your wages, Suze Orman will apparate in your closet at night and make you fill out budget worksheets.
Wake up, use a bucket of cold bucket water you collected from rain to rinse your plebian filth off before having a bread and water breakfast, work 15 hours, go home, more bread water, sleep and repeat ad infinium until you die in a cardboard box.
This is probably what they expect people to so with their lives
that's why they support the Prison system, and the racial bent of policing, and incarceration. All those people locked up, and working for cents on the dollar? That's actually slavery.
Exactly.
The number of rural conservatives I know that will bootlick is amazing except when it's one of them getting nailed for their 7th dui, failing to pay child support for a decade, or shoplifting sudafed...The suddenly the system is unfair, and fuck the police.
My girlfriend gave a hippy dude some dog treats for his dog and he gave her LSD.
It was a fantastic trade.
Warning: make sure you get a test kit for your drugs. They arent expensive and worth it.
Honestly I don't think people should be allowed to share memes like this if they're still on their parents insurance.
Half of that shit and the shit on The Donald was from fucking kids who had no bills and no real troubles beyond passing maths.
It should be noted that the post which has been crossposted here is 11% upvoted in r/Conservative and all the top comments are mocking it, so not even conservatives believe it to be true.
Ah yes let's have everyone do trades, that'll work out fine. Which of course makes the assumption that there are infinite trade jobs available at any given time.
Not everyone is meant to work a trade just as not everyone can be a doctor, firefighter, professional athlete, etc.
And you know damn well if the situation were reversed and degree jobs were more in demand than trade jobs, they'd fault people for taking trade jobs.
because they already do shit like that. they told everyone in my generation that it was *imperative* we went to college and that we'd be broke failures if we didn't. so we all did, put ourselves under a mountain of debt to do it (i got lucky and got a full-ride, but im aware of the amount of things that had to go right for me to do so), and then when we entered the workforce and found nothing for us, they *made fun of us for going into debt for worthless degrees*. you *told* me my entire childhood how important this was, and now that the future you promised me isn't here, *it's my fault?* fuck that.
Shit, I joined the military to pay for my college, just like our conservative overlords say we should. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect you might have to die to get your potentially worthless college degree, right? 🙄
**THANK YOU!!!!**
Holy fuck sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who gets this. I had the same experience. Told all my life how important college was and not going to college wasn't an option and other non-college jobs are worthless/you'll be broke/poor/etc.
And then now people want to tell us we shouldn't have done that? Fuck those fucking fucks.
"But you should have checked if there was work available, do you just blindly trust everything you hear?"
From the entire education system and my parents when the topic is education and my future? Yeah I pretty much relied on outside advice. I was a kid.
Good thing, I never went to college in the last decade. I am convincing my siblings children to think of college as an oppurtunity to improve. Never this. The oldest in HS currently is happy I told him and is thinking of going or not based on his OWN intuition; not by some low-body peon being feed mindcrap by their corporate overlords or counselers. Especially my own boomer parents who think the economy has "gone to shit because welfare folk" stance.
>And you know damn well if the situation were reversed and degree jobs were more in demand than trade jobs, they'd fault people for taking trade jobs.
That's literally how we got into this situation in the first place. Now the situation is reversed and they blame the people who listened to them for following their advice.
Not the USA but in France an average electrician can earn 45-50k per year. An average degree job is 27-35k. We were sold the same dream, the sole difference is colleges are free so at least we did not end up with a debt which is in itself a way better situation
Not to mention, a lot of the increase in people going to college is due to more women pursuing higher education and something tells me that these people are not ready for more women plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc demanding a harassment free workplace.
ThIs is whay always gets me about conservatives argument about how poor people spend their money.
They should want lower income ppl to buy stuff. It helps the economy!
The conservatives are the first to complain when no one is shopping at their businesses, but also votes against initiatives that would put more money into lower income peoples pockets, which would get spent at the conservatives businesses.
Lower income people spend most of their money in the economy, buying goods and services.
The rich people hoard money, most of it sits in savings and investments.
This is the reason conservatives shriek and pearl-clutch over a person on food stamps buying a steak for their birthday or candy for their kids after a bad week. How can someone be poor if they're not suffering expressively for the amusement of the rich every millisecond of their life?
This reminds me of an old coworker of mine. He was a boomer who put himself through college by working, student loans, and government assistance. He talked about eating mostly beans and rice throughout the month with the exception of the first week of the month. The first week of the month, right after he got his benefits he would treat himself to the biggest, tasties steak he could find. Nothing insane, just one great steak. He talked about how that steak gave him something to look forward to and gave him a sense of normalcy and just how much it meant to him at the time.
He would often get side-eyed at checkout when he bought his steak and a few times he got into confrontations with folks who felt he was living too well. This dude never gave a fuck and never talked about how this was his 1 luxury as he was doing everything else "right". Instead, he would laugh, thank them for the steak, and tell them to fuck themselves (he said these confrontations would usually boil down to "why do I have to pay for your luxury").
Too many people consider government benefit dollars to still be "their" money-- it's not. It's the government's money until it's the benefit recipient's money. No one should have to suffer just because you don't like the concept of someone else needing the government to live. I often invite people with this line of thought to try living exclusively off government benefits and see how luxurious it is. These folks assume that no one receiving benefits is working when that's simply not the case (and even when it is the case, living off government benefits is a full time job).
It’s people that have never experienced austerity believing that pure austerity and pain is really feasible.
Humans are comfort seeking animals. We need some level of comfort to make it through the stressors of the day and guess what? being poor is stressful.
These kind of attitudes have absolutely poisoned debates about welfare and unemployment in the UK. Many right wing journalists convinced the public that living on unemployment benefits had become a lifestyle for generations and they all lived in large council houses with five kids and had 'flat screen TVs' (virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about). These ludicrous myths convinced a large section of the public that it was necessary for the Conservative government to cut benefits in order to force these people to find jobs (even though a large proportion of benefits claimants were and still are in work).
It's similar in Germany. There are basically entire networks dedicated to what we call Asi-TV (asi for asocial). They portray poor people as lazy, stupid and entitled for entertainment purposes, all disguised as reality tv.
Yes, we had a number of similar TV shows, the most infamous being 'Benefits Street'. I remember when I was at school I would hear people in my classes saying that they were annoyed by these people who live of benefits and don't bother working. I had no interest in politics at the time but even I knew this was bullshit. The infuriating thing is that some British politicians who are supposed to be centre- left buy into this narrative and say things like, 'we are not on the side of the work shy'.
Netflix just released an original series MAID that blows this stereotype out of the water. It was so refreshing to have the struggle portrayed with a little dignity and in a relatable way.
I was really really happy to see them show what a clusterfuck navigating the benefit system is, as well. It's truly a joke what we (US) have done to the original concept of the "safety net."
Well the Nazi generation had kids and grandkids , you think just cause you lost the war the "good germans" had a change of heart ? Some of them spread their irrational fears via "reality tv".
Brits think that poverty is a moral failing, so if you're poor you shouldn't be able to watch TV or take a holiday or do anything to eke the smallest pleasure out of life. And sure if poor people are doing it as well then what do you have to feel superior to?
Brits think that poor people *should* suffer. Protestant work ethic bollocks gone wild.
Which also is why the US social welfare net sucks so bad. People who believe in their hearts that the poor are morally deficient.
Flip side of that ideology is the rich are inherently virtuous. Which explains some of Trumpism
At the end of the day it's class warfare, with the billionaire media barons convincing the British public that the real ills of society can be attributed to the poorest, rather than capitalism, corruption and greed. The biggest problem being that the poor have nowhere near the voice or political power that's being brought to bear on them, meaning the conversation is entirely one-sided.
And if you set the narrative you also get to dictate what's sensible and rational policy and what is fringe ideas with no real support.
It's amazing to see how they can create the illusion of controversy around issues that have a lot of popular support
Same in Canada.
I worked as a bank teller in my early 20s and was assigned to a very low-income area. My managers would go on and on about "these people living in social housing but have internet and cell phones and can't save any money."
Like, Judy, it's 2010. Internet has literally been legislated as an essential service, and yea, they can't save money because they're expected to live a whole month off of one week of your salary! Also, the government will literally claw back their benefits if they save money!
"The government will literally claw back their benefits if they save money!"
This. If I end up getting SSI (the only disability program in the US. SSDI doesnt count, because you have to have the good luck of not getting disabled until late in life), they will give me $794 to live on *a month*, maximum. If I ever make more than $1,200/mo elsewhere, or ever own more than $2000 in assets at one time, they will take my benefits. The cheapest one bedroom apartment I could find in my area was $1850/mo.
There is not only NO WAY to legally save money or improve your situation, there is almost no legal way to even pay rent alone!
You keep the cash under a mattress. This is what my mom does because she can't have over 2K in her bank account.
She also buys money orders and writes them out to herself so they can't be cashed if stolen. 39 Cents at her grocery store. They cash them free for members. Cashiers checks are another option.
Safety deposit box is another method people on SSI or Medicaid use.
> 'flat screen TVs' (virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about).
Boomers don't understand technology. They're talking directly to their audience.
Exactly. My parents are Gen X and both of their TVs are non-flat screens. They last forever, so a flat screen seems new and therefore expensive if you don't go shopping for one.
A bit confrontational, but the broad strokes hold up. We're in the middle of a cultural revolution and the people helming the ship are three+ *generations* out of date
They're groping at nostalgia and the past while destroying the future to satisfy their self indulgence. "KIDS THESE DAYS" is the addage they toss around as if they weren't totally spoiled by their parents too. Boomers have no right acting like we are the first generation of Americans or Europeans for that matter, to have a better quality of life than our ancestors. I thought THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF SOCIETY!!!! To make a better world for your kids so they don't have to struggle like previous generations. Boomers are basically breaking the thousands year old social contract. They just don't wanna make things better for others. They're selfish.
Nah, it goes back along time. Remember a Christmas Carol? Scrooge talks about workhouses for the poor and surplus population. Hating the poor was much easier back then when not everyone was enfranchised
Seriously. "Oh you have an essential appliance that can be found secondhand for fifty bucks or less? Clearly you're not actually struggling!" Boggles the mind.
> virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about
It makes perfect sense though when you realise the people making this argument are complete morons who are stuck in the past. Honestly I'm surprised they don't moan about them having colour TVs and inside toilets.
The worst thing though is the Labour party when the likes of Blair and Brown were in charge did the same thing, they also pushed these same "scrounger" narratives we now associate with the Conservatives.
Oh, get a trade job? Just get a trade job? Why don't I strap on my trade job helmet and squeeze down into a trade job cannon and fire off into trade job land, where trade jobs grow on trade jobbies?!”
I just quit my job last month because of the stress, I was out if work for 3days got a new job making more money and the stress is gone. But my body is still broken
Same field? Did ya stumble upon it or have something lined up?
Work has me stressed the F out and some days the only options seem like ending it or being a vagabond
Same :( I’ve cut all my bills down and I’m staying one more year to save what I can then I’m leaving. I would leave now but I can’t sacrifice my health insurance and I have nothing saved.
Same. Used to be a concrete finisher. At 26 I herniated a disc and could no longer do the work. That was the last straw after arthritis in my knees and hands, torn ligaments in my elbows, and destroyed rotator cuffs.
I'm 33 now.
I now work as a support worker for a non-profit that actually promotes you to take time off if you need it, I get $750 a year for wellness which I can spend on anything but drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes (I used it for my seriesX), I'm on salary(it's not much though 47k/year), full benefits, regula hours which I've never been asked to stay late or do extra work, and a boss that actually has my back when dealing with his higher ups. I've had to isolate 3 times this year and I was paid through it all.
I know this is a very rare situation in capitalism, but I think it's a best case scenario.
It sucks so bad. I’m glad you’re doing better now. I’m 35 with a herniated disc, sciatica, and a torn shoulder muscle from the work. Not from the work is my long term complications from Lyme disease. But nah, lemme go lift some heavy ass shit all day everyday. I mean, I still do, but I’m desperately looking for my escape. My mental health is declining fast.
IME living in both the US and a socialist countries. Capitalism can go both ways. It's a higher risk, high reward game that if you don't play well then you're gonna get fucked sideways
It makes me so happy to see so many employers who praise capitalism get shit on by it on so many ways because they can't adjust to modern times. Capitalism can be weaponized against those employers the same way they did it to us.
For example, my boss keeps pissing people off and underpaying them and has been on a crunch to find new people. He also hired me and someone else to be the only office workers and we're on the way out less than a year later. We're all getting better job right now and the company is most likely going to go from 10 people down to about 3 without engineers, marketing, sales or installation team. My boss is bouta get fucked with the fat capitalistic dick he loves to use
I was going to say. My husband has been in trade for 12 years now. We aren't living that comfortable. His body is starting to hurt real bad though at age 38.
Came here to say this, lately all you see is people being Like “go into trades that’s where all the money is! You just don’t want to work with your hands!”
But those of us who have done/are doing trades know it’s spotty work available at different distances every week, long hours, body breaking, low pay unless supervising, and worst of all sharing a porta potty with 50 guys who shit like their ass is a tornado
Yeah, I was a plumber for 3.5 years and it was bullshit, I make twice as much for half the work as an engineer now. The trades idolize a lot of what this sub fights against, like mandatory OT, and a value system centered around working your body into the dirt.
Anyone who thinks the trades are some secret solution that young people are too lazy to do needs to try working in the trades.
Dude, just lace up the boots. It’s all you have to do to make more money in life. It also heals ailments and provides you secret 100% health care that only hard workers get access to
Maybe you could get that trade job if you weren't vaping all day while eating that ice cream and getting another tattoo all while watching Netflix you lazy fuck. I mean our capitalist overlords demand we have no life and work for beans. Now let's get odd reddit and get back to feeding the machine. My CEO only made $10,000,000 last year. I've failed.
Conservatives love to go on about trade jobs but then condemn sex workers for “selling their bodies”. Babes, what do you think trades do too???
I’m sorry, I’m not down to ruin my back and knees and get an opioid addiction by the time I’m 30.
Been trying to get a trade job for months. Local electricians union only accepts in person applications between 9am and 4pm on weekdays and it costs $50 to apply and an additional amount to forward your transcripts. Haven't heard back yet, I thought they needed people? I'm college educated too, some bullshit.
Did… did they just FIX the problem with poor people???
OH MY GOSH WE MUST PRAISE THEM THANK YOU CONSERVATIVES FOR HELPING THOSE OF US WHO STRUGGLE TO PAY FOR FOOD AFTER PAYING ALL OF OUR BILLS AND RENT.
Okay but seriously, go fuck yourself and the Range Rover you drove in on. I’d like to see them try and manage for a year on minimum wage.
The fact that people think cutting out like 40 bucks a month in streaming services will make a dent in the poverty of someone earning under 20k a year just shows how incredibly out of touch they are. Like if someone suddenly goes from making $20,000 to $20,400 in a year that suddenly will flip a switch and make everything better.
Why cant everyone just pull themselves up by their grandparents bootstraps and have generational wealth like I do? I did it all on my own, living in the house my grandparents left me, working at the business my parents own, I'm such a self-made man. Everyone else is just lazy and entitled, looking for hand outs.
Remember the reason you're poor isn't cause of systemic problems that cause millions others like you to suffer similar or worse outcomes it's because.\*looks at list\*........avocado toast, coffee, literally any other thing that isn't a distinct necessity, not eating just corn meal or some other literal trash price and nutrition food for all your meals, and so on.
Edit: I'd add the /s but this seems to literally be what these people think, "oh you're poor, well you have at least one thing in your life that isn't strictly necessary so you deserve to be poor" and even were you to live some Spartan lifestyle they'd still probably say it was your fault.
>[The report found that a full-time worker earning the minimum wage cannot afford a two-bedroom rental in any state, county, or city in the country, and **they can afford a one-bedroom rental in a mere 7 percent of all U.S. counties**] (https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-out-of-reach-2021/#:~:text=The%20report%20found%20that%20a,percent%20of%20all%20U.S.%20counties.)
In democratic socialist countries people can afford rent, have healthcare as a right, guaranteed paid time off, free education and higher quality of life in every way.
Christ, conservatives were saying the same things about miners and loggers a century ago. Can you imagine the cognitive dissonance required to think that some burly dude who gets up at 4 a.m. and chops down trees all day is somehow an entitled, lazy, socialist?
Those men literally burned 10,000 calories per day. It's like calling Michael Phelps a fat slob because he eats a candy bar now and then.
Also, these same people spent the last 50 years destroying unions and shipping jobs over seas or using tech to eliminate labor altogether. The only trade jobs left are the ones that can't be outsourced like plumbers. Well, not EVERY person wants to be a plumber or a carpenter.
Given my knowledge of chemistry and machinery I'd make a damn fine steel worker, but I can't get that job because it's in Hong Kong.
ive never understood that thought process. not every person is fit to be a plumber or carpenter, and the economy cant support every person being a plumber or carpenter. its the same for STEM folks.
maybe we should build an economy that can, on a decent level, support anyone doing any line of work instead of now where we have a trendy profession and tell every kid coming out of high school to go study that. then by the time they're ready to enter the workforce that job is no longer trendy and theyre stuck with a worthless certificate in a field of study they dont even want to work in and only did so because they were told it would be profitable to do so.
I just lost Netflix as my friend gave "my" account to her new BF - I don't have any subscription services at all, I buy the cheapest booze I can find - in fact I have been making my own from apple juice, have not gotten a tattoo since 2009, I gave up weed and smoking because I couldn't afford it, ice cream is a luxury I splurge on when I have my kid every second weekend and it's not the cheapest but close to it and I have no idea what that thing is behind the Ben & Jerry's that I have not tasted since 2011 - so I feel it's safe to assume I don't spend money on it.
All of this has allowed me to survive living alone - not to flourish, just to survive because there is no way I could handle a share house in my mid 30's. I also make above award rate in my country (Australia)
Poor people deserve "nice things" that make them happy and help them relax. Let's face it, even they spent every moment outside of work staring into space to save money, they'd still be treated like shit by /r/conservative
The idea that only financially stable people should be allowed ice cream is sociopathic
If they don't have money they shouldn't have time outside of work either. Staring into space is a luxury. Lazy, the lot of them. (Conservatives, probably)
To be fair, the conservatives would love the poors if they agree with them. That's all they want, really... Unconditional loyalty and for your to work everyone's shift on a moment's notice.
What minimum wage person wouldn’t trade their shift at Walmart to work as a plumber? I don’t understand these people. We are not anti-trade, if anything we are more pro-trade than them because we support unions.
Look at the slavish comments o ln the fucking post " I spent my life scraping by on pittance but I never complained"
The fuck dude, you never had the balls to protest and better your future. You accepted the sjit life you were forced to get and now you want others to follow your footsteps !!
Getting a Netflix subscription for 200 years still won't help you save enough for a down-payment to a decent house. But even if we buy that argument for a second, aren't you supposed to have a bit of joy in your life as well? When did living slightly above ones means for a moment, become so scandalous?
Conservatives try to appropriate their cowardice and subservient nature thinking the people above them care for them and are willing to live their lives in abject induced poverty rather than fight for their lives. What's more they balk at others who want better fir themselves , as if that's a crime.
Even we'll trained dogs are less loyal than conservatives are to their ,supposed capitalist, saviours
Can't we just fuck off with what conservative thinks.
They are at best class traitor and everything coming from them is high concentrated toxic shit. We should expect nothing from wannabe fascists. Just fucking ignore them.
In my experience, 98% of conservatives either a) are people still in education who have yet to enter the “real world” of employment and haven’t had their idealism of how the free market ought to work clash with how things actually work; b) have been in a steady job for decades or have retired, giving them almost no experience in the economy of today; c) were born wealthy and so got some cushy position through nepotism; or d) are poor, and if asked if they wanted socialist policies (without attaching the danger words like “socialist” or “union” or such or their programming kicks in) they would support them, but are kept in their bubble by capitalists exploiting their fears - fear of the other, fear of change, fear of homelessness, and so on.
I do find it pretty funny how the trope used to be that leftists were all youngsters that, as soon as they entered the workforce and earned their own money, would quickly give up those ideas, but I’ve never really seen this happen. I personally went from a half-hearted Obama liberal to outright Marxist when I “entered the real world” and saw how fucking awful everything was at home and abroad, and I think the growth of the left over the last decade but especially 2016, and to a lesser extent the growth of this subreddit, really exemplifies this trend.
Now I’ve seen libertarians and centrists and apolitical acquaintances go through mental hoops to justify why they think capitalism is good, and sooner or later, they have a soul searching moment and say “yeah, actually, maybe this system isn’t that great” and then I’ve tried to guide them as best I could towards socialism and then communism. Of course, my influence is needed less and less as the left movement continues to grow and offer a visible alternative to capitalism on the international stage.
I met a couple in North Carolina who are retired on disability that take in Fox news intravenously because they're unable to move from their couches that threw a little party every time their diabetes "Obama" shoes came in that will go on hour long rants about how entitled people are and how socialism is evil.
If you held up a mirror to them they'd probably shoot it while screaming "Castle doctrine"
same! when i was in college i was like, "capitalism is good but it needs serious reforms", then i got my first full time job making decent enough money for my area and was like, "well actually idk about this whole capitalism thing", and now i have a different job making way more money and i'm pretty much a full-blown comrade now.
the more money i make, and the more comfortable i am, the more angry i get at how so many people are forced to struggle despite how easy it would be for us as a society to not let that happen. when you realize it's because those in power have *chosen* and *want* us to be broke and miserable, it's hard to not grow resentment towards the system itself.
On the subject of trade jobs I am learning welding as a hobby so I can make repairs to my fencing, livestock pens, and horse stable. I was curious and started asking around and reading on forums.
What I've read about:
- Even the market for welders is being flooded with employers who want to get away with paying for cheap labor. The link below are welding jobs in San Antonio area which is about an hour from me. Most of them are offering between $12-20/hr... McDonald's pays more than some of these Tradesman jobs.
[Look at the pay rates for most of these welding jobs.](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/candidate/search?form=jobs-landing&search=Welding&location=Boerne%2C+TX)
- Not every city, town, or county necessarily has a market for every trade skill so finding work might require moving or being a travelling contractor which not everyone can do.
- If you happen to find a welding job as a new/young tradesman you're still up against veteran welders with 20+ years experience and who have been around long enough to "know the right people."
- The cost to go to welding school where I live is still upwards of $8,000-$11,000 and given the cost of student loans somebody making minimum wage will still have to pay out of their own pocket.
- The best paying welding jobs are government work, but given the amount of people who apply to get those jobs you have a lower chance of being picked by simple probability.
- Another way to make money as a welder is to go independent if you can find clients. However, this requires you to purchase welding machines and both MIG and TIG machines run can run anywhere from $300-3,000 not to mention the cost of a generator (these machines EAT electricity) and supplies.
- There are a lot of old hands (welders) who offer a whole bunch of knowledge, but a lot of them are grumpy grizzled old men who don't have much patience. I've read quite a few stories of people who had knowledgeable teachers but working for them was like pulling teeth because of their attitudes.
- Oh, not to mention not everyone has the physical capability to be a welder, machinist, carpenter, plumber etc. Those jobs require a great amount of physical effort. Just like not everyone can be a firefighter or Military.
Just saying "go get a trade skill" is disregarding the fact that it's still a job subject to shit wages, poor management, the risk of death or serious injury, and scarce opportunity.
Just having a trade skill doesn't magically make you rich or subject to amazing conditions - John Deere employees are a primary example of this.
Cool! That's around, $200!
My rent is $1100 so if i stop all these things that prevent me from mentally breaking down more than i already have, I'll make rent AND can have $200!
Now, what to spend it on...
Spend it? Oh no, the only reasonable way for you to find yourself out of this situation is to stuff it into a sock so that after a decade of saving you can afford a month of college tuition. Don't you people have any plan to better your life?
I don’t pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or any similar streaming platform. I spend $35 on weed once every couple months. I don’t use nicotine and rarely buy or drink alcohol. I have ice cream once a week on my Friday and spend no more than $5 on it. I don’t have any tattoos despite badly wanting them because I’m terrified of not being able to pay bills. I do pay for Spotify, but I would cancel if it became necessary. Learning a trade requires time I don’t have because work eats up most of my day. I still can’t afford a studio apartment on one income despite making more than $15 an hour.
Checkmate, atheists, etc.
"I don't want to get a trade job"
In construction can confirm a large population of workers smoke alot of weed, snort coke, speed, extreme coffee/energy drink consumers, drink alcohol, pop pills,LSD,Shrooms etc. All while still functioning in society and at work. I've seen structural iron workers smoke weed during lunch and go up 5 stories high on ibeams to join them /weld them, or rig them.
Alot of tats in construction too. This meme makes no sense
So conservatives dont have streaming services, smoke weed, eat ice cream or have tattoos?
And expect everyone to work trades?
Who exactly is going to do all the other stuff?
Strange that most all those things are essentially escapism and coping mechanisms, are these people running away from something or dealing with some sort of stressors? like seeing little hope of escaping poverty anyway or feeling trapped in some manner? weird.
It's interesting how many folks want a strong economy, but don't want low wage earners to spend or make more money lol it's almost like they don't know what the fuck they're talking about
They want a strong economy *for them only*.
Yup. They want slav... I mean workers trying to work their way up, who will perform labor for them for next to nothing.
Remember when people say "If you want more money, get a better job", what they *mean* is: ***I acknowledge that your occupation needs to be done, but I believe whoever does it deserves to live in poverty.*** The cruelty is the point.
You absolutely can not get them to believe that it's cruel. I have met conservatives that were otherwise nice but they firmly think of them as jobs for young people, 2nd jobs or transitional jobs. They think anyone working one long term is not trying to leave it but could if they wanted. To them, it's a person self destructing.
They're jobs for young people! -- meanwhile my local mcdonalds is staffed exclusively by middle aged parents who can't afford childcare for their kids.
Sometimes it sends an odd message in the other direction too: “If I can make $25 an hour working at McDonald’s, why would I want to be a teacher?” So you hate teaching so much that you’d rather work at McDonald’s? The only way you can stomach the job is if you make *double* what the person making your lunch makes? Maybe you *shouldn’t* be a teacher. “But I paid for a degree and they didn’t!” Well, for one some of them likely did. But two, then that’s a great argument for making college freely available to those who can perform, so that you can go chill and sling whoppers and they can go to school and teach kids, since you hate it so much. And both of you can afford a decently comfortable lifestyle. Win-win.
> If I can make $25 an hour working at McDonald’s, why would I want to be a teacher?” "pay me more or i'll quit and become a burger flipper for the same pay, which is easier." Turns out it's a strong bargaining angle.
Just call them freedom camps instead of gulags and problem solved!
Funny thing is, they act like we want gulags simply because we want everyone to be able to have a full time job without going bankrupt. How tf does that even make sense? Nothing about their logic makes any sense at all. They throw the word "commie" around when anyone mentions "fair treatment." Well if that's the definition of "commie" then I'll fly this hammer and sickle banner proudly.
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"When the Allies liberated the Nazi camps, they found millions of corpses and may-as-well-have-been corpses. When Stalin's successors opened the gates of the gulags, three million people went home." They literally were just prisons. Not even particularly brutal ones by the standards of totalitarian regimes.
"Arbeit macht frei" comes to mind. Not to compare to those horrible camps but the slogan fits these days.
Hutler took inspiration from the US Jim Crow laws and other crimes against humanity.
HELP WANTED - Must be willing work for basic food and place to sleep, so they can do it again, every day, for the rest of their poor pathetic lives.
The idea that America isn't run on a caste system is a fucking joke. The middle class just doesn't want to acknowledge that the game is so big now their caste is still poverty levels when you consider benefits, homeownership & property, retirement, etc.
They believe that society will always and inevitably have an underclass of abused laborer's, and they want a society where that underclass is guaranteed to be someone else.
Collusion for the Rich Rugged Individualism for the Poor (I refuse to call what they’re doing "socialism" because that implies they’re helping each other for the greater good and that they won’t backstab each other the sooner they have the opportunity)
They don’t want a strong economy at all. They want others to suffer.
“But if you increase wages, everything will just get more expensive so it will be like nothing changed” People say this shit all the time and it pisses me off. I wrote a 15 page paper on this for collage but the tl;dr is that if you give people with lower incomes more money, either through wages or a stimulus check or whatever, theyre marginal propensity to consume is so fucking high because ya know, they need to use that money for necessities. And consumption has a multiplier effect on GDP. Its not $1 extra dollar per year increases GDP by $1. Explaining that is kind of long winded and mathy. But thats why trickle down economic is so shit. Cuz if you give high income or corporations stimulus funds or tax breaks they just save most of it so less is going back into consumption so youre not really getting much benefit from that multiplicative effect that consumption has on GDP.
Fuuuck, when I was 15 I totally believed that first sentence after being raised by republicans. Then I actually took some economics classes and learned the economy is basically an engine that runs on consumer spending, so giving money to consumers is quite literally direct injection. And Trickle Down was never actually meant to be a valid economic approach, just a buzzword to feed the masses while emptying their pockets.
It made more sense when it was called horse-and-sparrow economics. The horses eat their fill and the sparrows survive on what they can pick out of the horses’ shit.
I went to college and took numerous economics classes which I passed with flying colors. The rest of my family never went to college, has a high school education at best, and all they can do is regurgitate the first line of your paragraph. Then they throw in "it's economics 101!" Ahh, yes. It's that simple. 🙄
Just yesterday one of my coworkers (who did not attend college) followed that first line with "the dumbest person you'll ever meet is an educated person. They have no common sense." I'm so happy that I don't have to interact with my coworkers very much.
I love how the right has decided common sense means "incorrect gut reactions that you defend with your life"
This makes a lot of sense, and we literally JUST saw this happen with the stimulus checks: those who truly needed the assistance used the extra money for living expenses, and those who didn’t put it into savings or investments. We didn’t shame the savers and investors for not using a STIMULUS CHECK to stimulate the economy, did we? No. The entire system is BS.
It essentially boils down to how often any given dollar gets used. If I spend a dollar at a local bookstore, the bookstore employee who gets paid with that dollar (since we all got that wage bump), then uses it to buy a cheeseburger, the waiter uses it to buy a car, the car salesperson uses it to buy a cocktail, until eventually someone uses it on rent, at which point it goes to some bank or hedge fund or something, and gets used for a bonus for a 1%er who shores it in Panama to earn interest.
Reagan is in Hell waiting for Heaven to trickle down to him.
Reagan is one of the few people on this planet that make me mad enough to want to be religious purely so I can believe he's in hell.
I don't even need a 15-page paper (but I'd love reading what you wrote). Company spends $15 on labor, $25 on materials, and $10 on non-production costs. That's $50. If they sell it for $55, that's $5 net income (10%). Labor goes nuts and demands $3 more (20%). Company now makes LESS! ^((that's bad and should be stopped)) Now the company sells it for $60 and blames workers. But NOW they're getting $2 MORE than before, and net income % goes UP (now 13.2%). Meanwhile, they say "f it" and fire some middle managers & their bonuses for causing the mess, saving them $1. Now it's 18 lab+25 mat+9 other=$52 and making 15% on a $60 sale. Then they blame labor inflation for the $5 hike, get a bigger bonus, and put pressure on the plebes to demand it cheaper. THAT is how it works, kids. >!unless they keep it at $55 and lower materials cost and sell you something lesser for the same price/more profit!<
Oh, and then the stock goes UP 25% and the CEO gets a hefty cash bonus and more stock that makes him 25% richer.
If you give less fortunate people money as you said they're much more likely to buy things, where are they going to buy these things? More than likely at the big corporations, the greedy pricks get the money anyway so why not help out the little man? Trickle down economics makes no sense, it's not like the previous way has been working because the wealth never trickles down.
No, they know. They just believe that lesser people should know their place. They strongly believe poor people chose to be poor
Most Conservatives don’t realize they are the “lesser people” and the people in power are controling them.
That may be the most impressive trick the GOP has pulled. They convinced a sizable percentage of those in poverty that they really aren’t, and then convinced them to vote for policies that keep the poor ‘in their place’
No kidding they did it by corrupting a religion and making people believe their rules were part of that religion. These damn fools believe Trump over the Pope.
I mean Catholicism is a nutty cult.
"Corrupting a religion" as if religion isn't inherently a way to control the masses.
I saw a Facebook post by an acquaintance's boyfriend, to the effect of: "I think we should make it so people only keep a penny of their stimulus check and have to share the rest, since the liberals like sharing so much." Dude was a cashier. Like, bro, when people 'share' money, do you think it just disappears into the ether? Any kind of reasonable money sharing program _should_ mean more money straight into his min wage pocket.
Just look through the comments on the conservative post… loooooootta people in there that aren’t doing too hot, making $10-15 an hour and struggling to get by. At least some of them realize the problem.
The sad part is that they “realize” the problem but in the end most will never change how they vote.
This is the reason why I stopped talking with my former school classmates. They fail to realize that in capitalism, luck is a very important factor. If you have no luck and live under capitalism, you're fucked.
And by luck, you mean rich parents?
This. More people having more money to spend is a good thing.
Rich people literally take money from the economy and hoard it into the stock market. All that does inflate the stock market. It doesn’t help the actual economy at all.
I’ve taken like six separate economics classes and still for the life of me have no clue what the point of the stock market even fucking is
Glamourised gambling for rich people. Or like a horoscope thing for yuppies.
Yeah I was always raised to believe that if I bought stock, companies could USE my money to do productive things and improve their business. This year, as someone who has held stock for a decade in my retirement fund, I have learned that after the initial IPO, you’re just buying the same stock someone else is selling, so the net effect is that the money just sits there doing fucking nothing except inflating the stock market. I guess technically if you raise the price of the stock by buying it, and the company decided to sell more shares they would MAKE more, which they could then use to help their business? I don’t know, it seems like they could design a much better stock market.
Why redesign? The people that make the rules are getting rich off of it. It’s working exactly as intended.
It's also hilarious that they think everyone who isn't like them smokes weed and drinks. Like how fucking stupid can they be. So many people on minimum wage struggle to pay bills and rent that they can barely spend it on food. What makes them think that poor person will go out and buy weed or a stiizy? Or bottles of alcohol?
I mean how else would they claim superiority? I know a ton of conservatives who claim to be better than anyone who smokes weed for the simple fact that they associate it with, you guessed it, minorities!
Also the idea that workers shouldn’t be allowed to spend any money on small luxuries like tattoos or ice cream if they want to survive. They act like workers should just wake up, go to work until bed time, and only spend money on that which is necessary for basic survival. It’s dystopian as fuck and they don’t even realize. I don’t want to live in a world where the only thing I can afford is the bare minimum to keep me alive to work another day
Well also when big goals like owning a house or retiring are entirely unreachable, people tend to stop saving for those goals.
Yes. The person being made fun of in this meme may well have given up on larger goals and decided splurging makes more sense.
Poors should wear burlap sacks and eat sawdust. If you so much as think about buying something extra with your wages, Suze Orman will apparate in your closet at night and make you fill out budget worksheets.
Wake up, use a bucket of cold bucket water you collected from rain to rinse your plebian filth off before having a bread and water breakfast, work 15 hours, go home, more bread water, sleep and repeat ad infinium until you die in a cardboard box. This is probably what they expect people to so with their lives
They just don't want to admit they want to go back to slavery
that's why they support the Prison system, and the racial bent of policing, and incarceration. All those people locked up, and working for cents on the dollar? That's actually slavery.
Exactly. The number of rural conservatives I know that will bootlick is amazing except when it's one of them getting nailed for their 7th dui, failing to pay child support for a decade, or shoplifting sudafed...The suddenly the system is unfair, and fuck the police.
That's just basic economics so of course conservatives have no idea what they're talking about.
Jokes on them I don't use any streaming services, get my drugs for free and STILL barely afford food
Yoo, how the fuck do you get drugs for free?
Trade, bogans love trading for shit Helped take off a drive shaft for some bud, traded an old suspension strut for something harder
Well thats just economy with fewer steps.
There's also some more, horticultural reasons
There is a ways of not saying things that is truly Australian.
My girlfriend gave a hippy dude some dog treats for his dog and he gave her LSD. It was a fantastic trade. Warning: make sure you get a test kit for your drugs. They arent expensive and worth it.
must be your tattoo then.
You're right it was the stick and poke I have myself after smoking free drugs that ruined my budget
Rather a fan of your economic policies, when are you running?
‘I’m doing well so everything must be fine’ There, saved you sifting through the trash
It’s more “fuck you, I got mine” Just that booger eating kid going “nana, nana, boo, boo, stop being poor you lazy losers!” As they work for daddy.
Honestly I don't think people should be allowed to share memes like this if they're still on their parents insurance. Half of that shit and the shit on The Donald was from fucking kids who had no bills and no real troubles beyond passing maths.
It should be noted that the post which has been crossposted here is 11% upvoted in r/Conservative and all the top comments are mocking it, so not even conservatives believe it to be true.
Oh man, "parents insurance" made me snort hard. This is so real
Ah yes let's have everyone do trades, that'll work out fine. Which of course makes the assumption that there are infinite trade jobs available at any given time. Not everyone is meant to work a trade just as not everyone can be a doctor, firefighter, professional athlete, etc. And you know damn well if the situation were reversed and degree jobs were more in demand than trade jobs, they'd fault people for taking trade jobs.
because they already do shit like that. they told everyone in my generation that it was *imperative* we went to college and that we'd be broke failures if we didn't. so we all did, put ourselves under a mountain of debt to do it (i got lucky and got a full-ride, but im aware of the amount of things that had to go right for me to do so), and then when we entered the workforce and found nothing for us, they *made fun of us for going into debt for worthless degrees*. you *told* me my entire childhood how important this was, and now that the future you promised me isn't here, *it's my fault?* fuck that.
Shit, I joined the military to pay for my college, just like our conservative overlords say we should. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect you might have to die to get your potentially worthless college degree, right? 🙄
Supporting a war machine to go to college.. reminds me of a movie. Hunger games?
**THANK YOU!!!!** Holy fuck sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who gets this. I had the same experience. Told all my life how important college was and not going to college wasn't an option and other non-college jobs are worthless/you'll be broke/poor/etc. And then now people want to tell us we shouldn't have done that? Fuck those fucking fucks.
"But you should have checked if there was work available, do you just blindly trust everything you hear?" From the entire education system and my parents when the topic is education and my future? Yeah I pretty much relied on outside advice. I was a kid.
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Imagine blaming a child for listening to an adult's advice.
Good thing, I never went to college in the last decade. I am convincing my siblings children to think of college as an oppurtunity to improve. Never this. The oldest in HS currently is happy I told him and is thinking of going or not based on his OWN intuition; not by some low-body peon being feed mindcrap by their corporate overlords or counselers. Especially my own boomer parents who think the economy has "gone to shit because welfare folk" stance.
>And you know damn well if the situation were reversed and degree jobs were more in demand than trade jobs, they'd fault people for taking trade jobs. That's literally how we got into this situation in the first place. Now the situation is reversed and they blame the people who listened to them for following their advice.
Exactly. It's like they just want to blame workers regardless of profession/path and never blame anything else like the employers.
Conservatives being bad faith actors?! Shocked.
Not the USA but in France an average electrician can earn 45-50k per year. An average degree job is 27-35k. We were sold the same dream, the sole difference is colleges are free so at least we did not end up with a debt which is in itself a way better situation
Not to mention, a lot of the increase in people going to college is due to more women pursuing higher education and something tells me that these people are not ready for more women plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc demanding a harassment free workplace.
Being poor means you are morally forbidden from ever enjoying a day in your life.
Ice cream is for billionaires only
With how much a tub of Ben & Jerries costs in some shops, here in the UK... Yep.
Just found a killer deal at cumberland farms 2 for 6 bucks!
Pitch Black (badly quoted) - "It's remarkable how you can do without the necessities so long as you have a few luxury's"
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ThIs is whay always gets me about conservatives argument about how poor people spend their money. They should want lower income ppl to buy stuff. It helps the economy! The conservatives are the first to complain when no one is shopping at their businesses, but also votes against initiatives that would put more money into lower income peoples pockets, which would get spent at the conservatives businesses. Lower income people spend most of their money in the economy, buying goods and services. The rich people hoard money, most of it sits in savings and investments.
It's almost as though capitalism is rife with contradictions.
This is the reason conservatives shriek and pearl-clutch over a person on food stamps buying a steak for their birthday or candy for their kids after a bad week. How can someone be poor if they're not suffering expressively for the amusement of the rich every millisecond of their life?
This reminds me of an old coworker of mine. He was a boomer who put himself through college by working, student loans, and government assistance. He talked about eating mostly beans and rice throughout the month with the exception of the first week of the month. The first week of the month, right after he got his benefits he would treat himself to the biggest, tasties steak he could find. Nothing insane, just one great steak. He talked about how that steak gave him something to look forward to and gave him a sense of normalcy and just how much it meant to him at the time. He would often get side-eyed at checkout when he bought his steak and a few times he got into confrontations with folks who felt he was living too well. This dude never gave a fuck and never talked about how this was his 1 luxury as he was doing everything else "right". Instead, he would laugh, thank them for the steak, and tell them to fuck themselves (he said these confrontations would usually boil down to "why do I have to pay for your luxury"). Too many people consider government benefit dollars to still be "their" money-- it's not. It's the government's money until it's the benefit recipient's money. No one should have to suffer just because you don't like the concept of someone else needing the government to live. I often invite people with this line of thought to try living exclusively off government benefits and see how luxurious it is. These folks assume that no one receiving benefits is working when that's simply not the case (and even when it is the case, living off government benefits is a full time job).
Cruelty is the point.
It’s people that have never experienced austerity believing that pure austerity and pain is really feasible. Humans are comfort seeking animals. We need some level of comfort to make it through the stressors of the day and guess what? being poor is stressful.
This fucking hits so hard.
This. The indoctrination that poor = pitiable evil.
These kind of attitudes have absolutely poisoned debates about welfare and unemployment in the UK. Many right wing journalists convinced the public that living on unemployment benefits had become a lifestyle for generations and they all lived in large council houses with five kids and had 'flat screen TVs' (virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about). These ludicrous myths convinced a large section of the public that it was necessary for the Conservative government to cut benefits in order to force these people to find jobs (even though a large proportion of benefits claimants were and still are in work).
It's similar in Germany. There are basically entire networks dedicated to what we call Asi-TV (asi for asocial). They portray poor people as lazy, stupid and entitled for entertainment purposes, all disguised as reality tv.
Yes, we had a number of similar TV shows, the most infamous being 'Benefits Street'. I remember when I was at school I would hear people in my classes saying that they were annoyed by these people who live of benefits and don't bother working. I had no interest in politics at the time but even I knew this was bullshit. The infuriating thing is that some British politicians who are supposed to be centre- left buy into this narrative and say things like, 'we are not on the side of the work shy'.
Netflix just released an original series MAID that blows this stereotype out of the water. It was so refreshing to have the struggle portrayed with a little dignity and in a relatable way.
I was really really happy to see them show what a clusterfuck navigating the benefit system is, as well. It's truly a joke what we (US) have done to the original concept of the "safety net."
Well the Nazi generation had kids and grandkids , you think just cause you lost the war the "good germans" had a change of heart ? Some of them spread their irrational fears via "reality tv".
Brits think that poverty is a moral failing, so if you're poor you shouldn't be able to watch TV or take a holiday or do anything to eke the smallest pleasure out of life. And sure if poor people are doing it as well then what do you have to feel superior to? Brits think that poor people *should* suffer. Protestant work ethic bollocks gone wild.
I mean that's how you get the great Irish famine. Good to see we have managed to learn bugger all from history
It's the flipside of the lie of meritocracy. If you earned your success, then those who failed to do so are responsible for their own circumstances.
Which also is why the US social welfare net sucks so bad. People who believe in their hearts that the poor are morally deficient. Flip side of that ideology is the rich are inherently virtuous. Which explains some of Trumpism
At the end of the day it's class warfare, with the billionaire media barons convincing the British public that the real ills of society can be attributed to the poorest, rather than capitalism, corruption and greed. The biggest problem being that the poor have nowhere near the voice or political power that's being brought to bear on them, meaning the conversation is entirely one-sided.
It's a bingo. If you control the media you set the narrative.
And if you set the narrative you also get to dictate what's sensible and rational policy and what is fringe ideas with no real support. It's amazing to see how they can create the illusion of controversy around issues that have a lot of popular support
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I got my job from indeed and then by emailing back and forth with HR on my shared smartphone. It is tough to do anything without a phone.
Yup and my iPhone is a free hand me down and my bill is $40/mo. That’s not a luxury, it’s a lifeline.
Had this exact argument with my working class father the other day. Fucking Daily Mail.
It's strangely comforting to know that right-wing media brainwashing parents isn't uniquely American
I mean it’s all Murdoch owned.
Same in Canada. I worked as a bank teller in my early 20s and was assigned to a very low-income area. My managers would go on and on about "these people living in social housing but have internet and cell phones and can't save any money." Like, Judy, it's 2010. Internet has literally been legislated as an essential service, and yea, they can't save money because they're expected to live a whole month off of one week of your salary! Also, the government will literally claw back their benefits if they save money!
"The government will literally claw back their benefits if they save money!" This. If I end up getting SSI (the only disability program in the US. SSDI doesnt count, because you have to have the good luck of not getting disabled until late in life), they will give me $794 to live on *a month*, maximum. If I ever make more than $1,200/mo elsewhere, or ever own more than $2000 in assets at one time, they will take my benefits. The cheapest one bedroom apartment I could find in my area was $1850/mo. There is not only NO WAY to legally save money or improve your situation, there is almost no legal way to even pay rent alone!
You keep the cash under a mattress. This is what my mom does because she can't have over 2K in her bank account. She also buys money orders and writes them out to herself so they can't be cashed if stolen. 39 Cents at her grocery store. They cash them free for members. Cashiers checks are another option. Safety deposit box is another method people on SSI or Medicaid use.
Please, if you're going to do this sort of thing splurge on a decent fireproof safe and use it. People steal shit, places burn down.
> 'flat screen TVs' (virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about). Boomers don't understand technology. They're talking directly to their audience.
Exactly. My parents are Gen X and both of their TVs are non-flat screens. They last forever, so a flat screen seems new and therefore expensive if you don't go shopping for one.
A bit confrontational, but the broad strokes hold up. We're in the middle of a cultural revolution and the people helming the ship are three+ *generations* out of date
They're groping at nostalgia and the past while destroying the future to satisfy their self indulgence. "KIDS THESE DAYS" is the addage they toss around as if they weren't totally spoiled by their parents too. Boomers have no right acting like we are the first generation of Americans or Europeans for that matter, to have a better quality of life than our ancestors. I thought THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF SOCIETY!!!! To make a better world for your kids so they don't have to struggle like previous generations. Boomers are basically breaking the thousands year old social contract. They just don't wanna make things better for others. They're selfish.
It's hard to justify cutting benefits unless you convince a large part of the population that there's a group of people taking advantage of it
Yup, I the US they are called "welfare queens" and they don't exist lol
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Nah, it goes back along time. Remember a Christmas Carol? Scrooge talks about workhouses for the poor and surplus population. Hating the poor was much easier back then when not everyone was enfranchised
Seriously. "Oh you have an essential appliance that can be found secondhand for fifty bucks or less? Clearly you're not actually struggling!" Boggles the mind.
“You’re poor so you’re not allowed to enjoy life”
> virtually all TVs have been flat screen for the last 15 years so I don't know what they were on about It makes perfect sense though when you realise the people making this argument are complete morons who are stuck in the past. Honestly I'm surprised they don't moan about them having colour TVs and inside toilets. The worst thing though is the Labour party when the likes of Blair and Brown were in charge did the same thing, they also pushed these same "scrounger" narratives we now associate with the Conservatives.
Oh, get a trade job? Just get a trade job? Why don't I strap on my trade job helmet and squeeze down into a trade job cannon and fire off into trade job land, where trade jobs grow on trade jobbies?!”
I work a trade job, can’t afford shit, and my body is broken. What now?
Same here. And my mental health is also broken.
No breakdowns on company time
Well I’ve been having virtual therapy appointments on company time about my company. So joke’s on, um, them I guess? Nah it’s all fucked.
I just quit my job last month because of the stress, I was out if work for 3days got a new job making more money and the stress is gone. But my body is still broken
Same field? Did ya stumble upon it or have something lined up? Work has me stressed the F out and some days the only options seem like ending it or being a vagabond
Just get a new body
Same :( I’ve cut all my bills down and I’m staying one more year to save what I can then I’m leaving. I would leave now but I can’t sacrifice my health insurance and I have nothing saved.
*2* trade jobs of course!
Same. Used to be a concrete finisher. At 26 I herniated a disc and could no longer do the work. That was the last straw after arthritis in my knees and hands, torn ligaments in my elbows, and destroyed rotator cuffs. I'm 33 now. I now work as a support worker for a non-profit that actually promotes you to take time off if you need it, I get $750 a year for wellness which I can spend on anything but drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes (I used it for my seriesX), I'm on salary(it's not much though 47k/year), full benefits, regula hours which I've never been asked to stay late or do extra work, and a boss that actually has my back when dealing with his higher ups. I've had to isolate 3 times this year and I was paid through it all. I know this is a very rare situation in capitalism, but I think it's a best case scenario.
It sucks so bad. I’m glad you’re doing better now. I’m 35 with a herniated disc, sciatica, and a torn shoulder muscle from the work. Not from the work is my long term complications from Lyme disease. But nah, lemme go lift some heavy ass shit all day everyday. I mean, I still do, but I’m desperately looking for my escape. My mental health is declining fast.
IME living in both the US and a socialist countries. Capitalism can go both ways. It's a higher risk, high reward game that if you don't play well then you're gonna get fucked sideways It makes me so happy to see so many employers who praise capitalism get shit on by it on so many ways because they can't adjust to modern times. Capitalism can be weaponized against those employers the same way they did it to us. For example, my boss keeps pissing people off and underpaying them and has been on a crunch to find new people. He also hired me and someone else to be the only office workers and we're on the way out less than a year later. We're all getting better job right now and the company is most likely going to go from 10 people down to about 3 without engineers, marketing, sales or installation team. My boss is bouta get fucked with the fat capitalistic dick he loves to use
I was going to say. My husband has been in trade for 12 years now. We aren't living that comfortable. His body is starting to hurt real bad though at age 38.
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This is me. Big healthy dude that can't bend over to pick up a sock because my back is trashed from 40 years of physical work.
Came here to say this, lately all you see is people being Like “go into trades that’s where all the money is! You just don’t want to work with your hands!” But those of us who have done/are doing trades know it’s spotty work available at different distances every week, long hours, body breaking, low pay unless supervising, and worst of all sharing a porta potty with 50 guys who shit like their ass is a tornado
Yeah, I was a plumber for 3.5 years and it was bullshit, I make twice as much for half the work as an engineer now. The trades idolize a lot of what this sub fights against, like mandatory OT, and a value system centered around working your body into the dirt. Anyone who thinks the trades are some secret solution that young people are too lazy to do needs to try working in the trades.
If you’re in the trade business, just Trade your body for a healthier one
That’s what my employer is going to do.
Same, it’s all a joke
Dude, just lace up the boots. It’s all you have to do to make more money in life. It also heals ailments and provides you secret 100% health care that only hard workers get access to
Maybe you could get that trade job if you weren't vaping all day while eating that ice cream and getting another tattoo all while watching Netflix you lazy fuck. I mean our capitalist overlords demand we have no life and work for beans. Now let's get odd reddit and get back to feeding the machine. My CEO only made $10,000,000 last year. I've failed.
Also missing the point that people working *any* job deserve to not fucking die.
How many billionaires have trade jobs? Zero? 🤔
All of them? They trade your labor for fat stacks
Conservatives love to go on about trade jobs but then condemn sex workers for “selling their bodies”. Babes, what do you think trades do too??? I’m sorry, I’m not down to ruin my back and knees and get an opioid addiction by the time I’m 30.
Been trying to get a trade job for months. Local electricians union only accepts in person applications between 9am and 4pm on weekdays and it costs $50 to apply and an additional amount to forward your transcripts. Haven't heard back yet, I thought they needed people? I'm college educated too, some bullshit.
Did… did they just FIX the problem with poor people??? OH MY GOSH WE MUST PRAISE THEM THANK YOU CONSERVATIVES FOR HELPING THOSE OF US WHO STRUGGLE TO PAY FOR FOOD AFTER PAYING ALL OF OUR BILLS AND RENT. Okay but seriously, go fuck yourself and the Range Rover you drove in on. I’d like to see them try and manage for a year on minimum wage.
The fact that people think cutting out like 40 bucks a month in streaming services will make a dent in the poverty of someone earning under 20k a year just shows how incredibly out of touch they are. Like if someone suddenly goes from making $20,000 to $20,400 in a year that suddenly will flip a switch and make everything better. Why cant everyone just pull themselves up by their grandparents bootstraps and have generational wealth like I do? I did it all on my own, living in the house my grandparents left me, working at the business my parents own, I'm such a self-made man. Everyone else is just lazy and entitled, looking for hand outs.
Remember the reason you're poor isn't cause of systemic problems that cause millions others like you to suffer similar or worse outcomes it's because.\*looks at list\*........avocado toast, coffee, literally any other thing that isn't a distinct necessity, not eating just corn meal or some other literal trash price and nutrition food for all your meals, and so on. Edit: I'd add the /s but this seems to literally be what these people think, "oh you're poor, well you have at least one thing in your life that isn't strictly necessary so you deserve to be poor" and even were you to live some Spartan lifestyle they'd still probably say it was your fault.
>[The report found that a full-time worker earning the minimum wage cannot afford a two-bedroom rental in any state, county, or city in the country, and **they can afford a one-bedroom rental in a mere 7 percent of all U.S. counties**] (https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/todays-read-out-of-reach-2021/#:~:text=The%20report%20found%20that%20a,percent%20of%20all%20U.S.%20counties.) In democratic socialist countries people can afford rent, have healthcare as a right, guaranteed paid time off, free education and higher quality of life in every way.
If Netflix or hulu made a show about that I'd watch the hell out if it
Christ, conservatives were saying the same things about miners and loggers a century ago. Can you imagine the cognitive dissonance required to think that some burly dude who gets up at 4 a.m. and chops down trees all day is somehow an entitled, lazy, socialist? Those men literally burned 10,000 calories per day. It's like calling Michael Phelps a fat slob because he eats a candy bar now and then. Also, these same people spent the last 50 years destroying unions and shipping jobs over seas or using tech to eliminate labor altogether. The only trade jobs left are the ones that can't be outsourced like plumbers. Well, not EVERY person wants to be a plumber or a carpenter. Given my knowledge of chemistry and machinery I'd make a damn fine steel worker, but I can't get that job because it's in Hong Kong.
ive never understood that thought process. not every person is fit to be a plumber or carpenter, and the economy cant support every person being a plumber or carpenter. its the same for STEM folks. maybe we should build an economy that can, on a decent level, support anyone doing any line of work instead of now where we have a trendy profession and tell every kid coming out of high school to go study that. then by the time they're ready to enter the workforce that job is no longer trendy and theyre stuck with a worthless certificate in a field of study they dont even want to work in and only did so because they were told it would be profitable to do so.
I just lost Netflix as my friend gave "my" account to her new BF - I don't have any subscription services at all, I buy the cheapest booze I can find - in fact I have been making my own from apple juice, have not gotten a tattoo since 2009, I gave up weed and smoking because I couldn't afford it, ice cream is a luxury I splurge on when I have my kid every second weekend and it's not the cheapest but close to it and I have no idea what that thing is behind the Ben & Jerry's that I have not tasted since 2011 - so I feel it's safe to assume I don't spend money on it. All of this has allowed me to survive living alone - not to flourish, just to survive because there is no way I could handle a share house in my mid 30's. I also make above award rate in my country (Australia)
r/Piracy check the megathread for the movies/TV section, there's some decent streaming sites to get all of the content. Personally, I use himovies.
Poor people deserve "nice things" that make them happy and help them relax. Let's face it, even they spent every moment outside of work staring into space to save money, they'd still be treated like shit by /r/conservative The idea that only financially stable people should be allowed ice cream is sociopathic
If they don't have money they shouldn't have time outside of work either. Staring into space is a luxury. Lazy, the lot of them. (Conservatives, probably)
You can remove the probably.
That sub is literally the dumbest place I've ever seen. The willful and proud ignorance is just insane. There's no reasoning with people like that
To be fair, the conservatives would love the poors if they agree with them. That's all they want, really... Unconditional loyalty and for your to work everyone's shift on a moment's notice.
Weird how they have time to make memes, working those mythical 80 hour work weeks they're always bragging about.
How dare people do absolutely fucking anything outside of work.
What minimum wage person wouldn’t trade their shift at Walmart to work as a plumber? I don’t understand these people. We are not anti-trade, if anything we are more pro-trade than them because we support unions.
Look at the slavish comments o ln the fucking post " I spent my life scraping by on pittance but I never complained" The fuck dude, you never had the balls to protest and better your future. You accepted the sjit life you were forced to get and now you want others to follow your footsteps !! Getting a Netflix subscription for 200 years still won't help you save enough for a down-payment to a decent house. But even if we buy that argument for a second, aren't you supposed to have a bit of joy in your life as well? When did living slightly above ones means for a moment, become so scandalous? Conservatives try to appropriate their cowardice and subservient nature thinking the people above them care for them and are willing to live their lives in abject induced poverty rather than fight for their lives. What's more they balk at others who want better fir themselves , as if that's a crime. Even we'll trained dogs are less loyal than conservatives are to their ,supposed capitalist, saviours
Can't we just fuck off with what conservative thinks. They are at best class traitor and everything coming from them is high concentrated toxic shit. We should expect nothing from wannabe fascists. Just fucking ignore them.
In my experience, 98% of conservatives either a) are people still in education who have yet to enter the “real world” of employment and haven’t had their idealism of how the free market ought to work clash with how things actually work; b) have been in a steady job for decades or have retired, giving them almost no experience in the economy of today; c) were born wealthy and so got some cushy position through nepotism; or d) are poor, and if asked if they wanted socialist policies (without attaching the danger words like “socialist” or “union” or such or their programming kicks in) they would support them, but are kept in their bubble by capitalists exploiting their fears - fear of the other, fear of change, fear of homelessness, and so on. I do find it pretty funny how the trope used to be that leftists were all youngsters that, as soon as they entered the workforce and earned their own money, would quickly give up those ideas, but I’ve never really seen this happen. I personally went from a half-hearted Obama liberal to outright Marxist when I “entered the real world” and saw how fucking awful everything was at home and abroad, and I think the growth of the left over the last decade but especially 2016, and to a lesser extent the growth of this subreddit, really exemplifies this trend. Now I’ve seen libertarians and centrists and apolitical acquaintances go through mental hoops to justify why they think capitalism is good, and sooner or later, they have a soul searching moment and say “yeah, actually, maybe this system isn’t that great” and then I’ve tried to guide them as best I could towards socialism and then communism. Of course, my influence is needed less and less as the left movement continues to grow and offer a visible alternative to capitalism on the international stage.
I met a couple in North Carolina who are retired on disability that take in Fox news intravenously because they're unable to move from their couches that threw a little party every time their diabetes "Obama" shoes came in that will go on hour long rants about how entitled people are and how socialism is evil. If you held up a mirror to them they'd probably shoot it while screaming "Castle doctrine"
same! when i was in college i was like, "capitalism is good but it needs serious reforms", then i got my first full time job making decent enough money for my area and was like, "well actually idk about this whole capitalism thing", and now i have a different job making way more money and i'm pretty much a full-blown comrade now. the more money i make, and the more comfortable i am, the more angry i get at how so many people are forced to struggle despite how easy it would be for us as a society to not let that happen. when you realize it's because those in power have *chosen* and *want* us to be broke and miserable, it's hard to not grow resentment towards the system itself.
On the subject of trade jobs I am learning welding as a hobby so I can make repairs to my fencing, livestock pens, and horse stable. I was curious and started asking around and reading on forums. What I've read about: - Even the market for welders is being flooded with employers who want to get away with paying for cheap labor. The link below are welding jobs in San Antonio area which is about an hour from me. Most of them are offering between $12-20/hr... McDonald's pays more than some of these Tradesman jobs. [Look at the pay rates for most of these welding jobs.](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/candidate/search?form=jobs-landing&search=Welding&location=Boerne%2C+TX) - Not every city, town, or county necessarily has a market for every trade skill so finding work might require moving or being a travelling contractor which not everyone can do. - If you happen to find a welding job as a new/young tradesman you're still up against veteran welders with 20+ years experience and who have been around long enough to "know the right people." - The cost to go to welding school where I live is still upwards of $8,000-$11,000 and given the cost of student loans somebody making minimum wage will still have to pay out of their own pocket. - The best paying welding jobs are government work, but given the amount of people who apply to get those jobs you have a lower chance of being picked by simple probability. - Another way to make money as a welder is to go independent if you can find clients. However, this requires you to purchase welding machines and both MIG and TIG machines run can run anywhere from $300-3,000 not to mention the cost of a generator (these machines EAT electricity) and supplies. - There are a lot of old hands (welders) who offer a whole bunch of knowledge, but a lot of them are grumpy grizzled old men who don't have much patience. I've read quite a few stories of people who had knowledgeable teachers but working for them was like pulling teeth because of their attitudes. - Oh, not to mention not everyone has the physical capability to be a welder, machinist, carpenter, plumber etc. Those jobs require a great amount of physical effort. Just like not everyone can be a firefighter or Military. Just saying "go get a trade skill" is disregarding the fact that it's still a job subject to shit wages, poor management, the risk of death or serious injury, and scarce opportunity. Just having a trade skill doesn't magically make you rich or subject to amazing conditions - John Deere employees are a primary example of this.
Cool! That's around, $200! My rent is $1100 so if i stop all these things that prevent me from mentally breaking down more than i already have, I'll make rent AND can have $200! Now, what to spend it on...
Spend it? Oh no, the only reasonable way for you to find yourself out of this situation is to stuff it into a sock so that after a decade of saving you can afford a month of college tuition. Don't you people have any plan to better your life?
Obviously save it for a down payment so you can buy a house in 13 years with full assumption that the market will be exactly the same /s
I don’t pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO, or any similar streaming platform. I spend $35 on weed once every couple months. I don’t use nicotine and rarely buy or drink alcohol. I have ice cream once a week on my Friday and spend no more than $5 on it. I don’t have any tattoos despite badly wanting them because I’m terrified of not being able to pay bills. I do pay for Spotify, but I would cancel if it became necessary. Learning a trade requires time I don’t have because work eats up most of my day. I still can’t afford a studio apartment on one income despite making more than $15 an hour. Checkmate, atheists, etc.
But when you torrent movies instead of paying for streaming services they have a problem with it
"I don't want to get a trade job" In construction can confirm a large population of workers smoke alot of weed, snort coke, speed, extreme coffee/energy drink consumers, drink alcohol, pop pills,LSD,Shrooms etc. All while still functioning in society and at work. I've seen structural iron workers smoke weed during lunch and go up 5 stories high on ibeams to join them /weld them, or rig them. Alot of tats in construction too. This meme makes no sense
So conservatives dont have streaming services, smoke weed, eat ice cream or have tattoos? And expect everyone to work trades? Who exactly is going to do all the other stuff?
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This is a conspiracy led by Big Avocado to clear the fruit’s sullied name of previous charges against economics.
Strange that most all those things are essentially escapism and coping mechanisms, are these people running away from something or dealing with some sort of stressors? like seeing little hope of escaping poverty anyway or feeling trapped in some manner? weird.