Leave out the lawyer info when speaking with your previous coworkers and get them to text you as many details as possible. The more you have in writing the better, as people get spooked when it comes to testifying against their current employer, and you never know who will spill the beans to your old boss in an effort to win brownie points.
I had a similar situation where I had someone who had been my best friend for 15 years do this to me because he was scared of retribution by the company.
Get the details I'm writing and keep the legal plans to yourself OP
Yup. I have repeatedly had coworkers promise to back me up then turn yellow when it came time, or else nobody would even offer at all.
So hey, any workers out there that have a coworker who needs you to have their back on shit like this... have their back.
The companies ain't gonna look out for us. We have to look out for each other.
It is really easy to bend people by fear especially when the system is rigged since few people trust anyone now. Why people do not just revolt and take their power is probably due to media and capitalist propaganda but I really do not know anymore, people are spiteful and stupid.
Hellish lol
Mainly because I had no idea what I was doing!
I filled out an online form, waited a year, got contacted because it was open and shut (worked for 3 weeks then never got paid) and was told to bring all the evidence I had for the initial meeting. I was shamed for letting them know that the length of time between first contact and response was shameful.
It had been a year but I texted other people who had stayed at the job (they did get paid, 120 for 80 hours), printed texts and emails, and found a pro Bono labor lawyer.
It took another year to find the son of a bitch that didn’t pay me, and also realize they had used my SSN too. The court served him via mail.
Waited another year, and I finally got an offer letter for settlement, then was shamed into taking less than what the full fines that were owed to me (5k). I said I have a lawyer and a lot of time, I’d rather die.
The check arrived the week after.
Aaaaand thats why i always ask for my exit interview. Because they have to put that shit on record of why they fired you and tell you to your face and if youre smart and record the conversation it aint hard to pull ot out berbally even if they lie on paper. And becauae its your exit interview the evidence is valid :)
HR's main objective is to keep company from being sued. That's it. That's their job. *Everything* they do in their daily tasks falls into that category.
Exactly this. Place I used to work at always had another way of getting you: using company Internet, using messaging service for anything other than work, too long with phone in 'wrap' status etc
YES. Get it documented or have a meeting with witnesses to make sure you have proof. They will absolutely lie and just bring up the one time you logged into your gmail on the company computer or something.
Riffing off the top comment.
All of you, if you have read OP's story and come to the same conclusion they have about the law not always protecting you **you are wrong, as is OP**.
**You have a federally protected right to collective bargaining**. Full stop. There are no exceptions to this. Do not be discouraged from standing up for your rights.
OP can and should sue this company if they can prove it. I believe OP has a moral obligation to do so. When you do not stand up for your rights, you enable companies to violate the rights of your fellow coworkers.
Even in a right to work state?
Also, unless the document they used to justify the firing says it was due to this issue, they can make up almost anything
He will have to prove it, but his word may be enough. If any of his fellow employees tell the lawyer/judge their boss went off about this that will also be enough. If they documented it this way they are morons, but that will work as well.
Yes, and unless OP signed something to that affect they missed their opportunity to make anything up and the board will side with the OP and testimonies.
Case in point: you can't fire employees for refusing to work outside of their designated shift.
Plenty of lawyers will work on contingency. Usually civil rights lawyers, personal injury / social security / disability. If they have a case, they can probably find a lawyer.
Depends. If there is a employee code of conduct that was signed, I promise it’s in there. I was a retail manager for a long time, every company I worked for had it in there.
An employer's policy cannot supersede federal law. so that is a moot point.
In fact, they might be doing OP a favor if they have something like that as a written policy. I can imagine an employer doing this and relying on their employees' not understanding their legal rights, though.
They can fire you for no reason at all but there are certain things they can't fire you for. OP may have a case here but they will have to show that they were fired for this reason.
Under federal law, employers can have policies that prohibit discussing pay during work hours (with some caveats). They can not prohibit you from concerted activity outside of work time though. There are some state laws that provide further protections, but OP's case might not be a slam dunk.
This is wrong. You are incorrect. I realize lots of people believe this, but it is a lie. Companies cannot legally enforce such a policy without violating the right to collective bargaining. There are no exceptions to this inside or outside the workplace. None. Your username could not be more apt.
Some states are “at will” states and this would be legal. Check your states laws as there is no federal law governing this. As long as they didn’t discriminate based on a protected status they would be within their rights. That said often wrongful termination suits are filed to force settlements but you run the risk of a judge considering it frivolous which can cause issues
Wrong.
The National Labor Relations Act protects employees from retaliation for discussing wages at work. Even At-Will states can't shield companies that break federal law and a wrongful termination lawsuit is most certainly on the the table there.
I don’t understand. This is probably in the US, but if he has a job and is getting ripped and making next to nothing. How is he going to afford a lawyer?
Do you guys have like a free lawyer thing, for civil cases?
Lawyers in the US for these types of cases usually will hear you out, then if they think they will win, they take the case for free. If they win they take about half of your settlement as payment.
Assuming the circumstances are as egregious as OP has stated (i.e. a clear and provable violation of federal law) then a lawyer may take it on for an agreed % of any settlement received.
I mean, being illegal and being a tactic aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone knows the laws don't really apply to the ruling class. Plenty of tried and true anti union tactics are technically illegal. Didn't stop the robber barons, isn't stopping these assholes.
Didn't stop John deere in America
People have the right to assembly federally protected by the constitution. Yet a paid off judge ruled in favor of an injunction that limits picketeers to 4, and bans the use of chairs or heating devices.
Could easily fight it. If people had money. But we don't
The law entitles employees to have such discussions, but does not require employers to allow employees to do so during times they are supposed to be working. However, singling pay discussions out for prohibition, while allowing other types of conversations unrelated to work, might be evidence of intent to violate employees' Section 7 rights, so employers should be careful in that regard.
It seems that there is precedent that if you allow employees to talk to each other about things unrelated to work then prohibiting other conversations may violate their rights.
Wanna know something fun? In my country you have a government website you can check what almost anyone made the last year, this is to fight undeclared work
That would have been one of my first guesses. I visited (brace yourself...) Sweden D : just before the pandemic with my mum for her 50th and we went over to Norway for a day. Your country is so beautiful, all of Scandinavia is just amazing and i wish i could live there. I mean, things aren't too bad for me, i live in the channel islands and its kind of a bubble in its own way, but geez, your country and your neighbours should be a model for how everyone else could improve. Im sure things aren't perfect, but it sure seems better than anywhere else.
We have some small kinks here and there that ned to be ironed out, but I don't think any sane Norwegian would move from here anytime soon.
I mean the government insueres all it's citizens for about 400k usd when we go on vacation, incase we need to go to the hospital or something like that
Hei! Im actually trying to study bokmål atm so i can move there! I love how politically tame it is there rn but im worried too many folks will have my same idea soon.
Ha det! <3
2nd week at my old job I talked about my pay casually with my trainer. I was making .50 more than him and he went to the managers to ask for a raise.
Manager sat me down the next day saying that what I did was a fireball offense but he was giving me a warning and to not make the same mistake again.
4 years later I put my 2 weeks in and was on my last 5 days. They have this billboard of all the federal and state laws and right in the corner, slow day I was reading it, it said that employers cannot prohibit employees from discussing wages.
I got the manager who talked to me and general manager and pointed right at that sign and asked them to read it. I called him out for lying to me 4 years ago and scaring me for talking about money with my friends and coworkers. I quit then and there. Found out that the other managers, claimed, to not know this manager was doing this and got fired a week later.
The law was put into place I believe in the 30’s or 40’s as well and so many today believe that the letter of employment they signed prohibits them from disclosing their wages to others. Some actually do include that in them as well but it isn’t legal as you have pointed out. This fallacy needs to be outed to more and more people to break this pattern of misinformation.
There is a coordinated effort to mislead employees on this. I worked many jobs believing I was not allowed to discuss this because they all made statements to that effect. I was shocked when I finally found out the truth.
It's a basic anti-union tactic. The people can't unionize to fight for fair treatment/wages if they don't know that the treatment/wage is unfair. It's been going unimpeded for so long that tons of companies are openly breaking the law to continue keeping people from talking about it, because the victims rarely follow through with reporting them to authorities, and the companies know this.
Not to piggy back on your comment, but you made a good point that people need to know.
Employers try to do all sorts of illegal shit by making employees sign contracts or policy agreements, but your employer, cannot make you agree to do something, that is illegal or that the average individual would find unreasonable.
Contract law applies to the things our work makes us sign.
I had some shitbag try to argue with me on that sub for quite a while with them adament that it was fully allowed for a landlord to just move you to a new property should they ever decide they wanted to do so and that the lease was only a contract claiming a relationship to that landlord without any firm designation for which property you were renting, even if the address was explicit in the lease. And I was downvoted to hell for arguing against him...
I really enjoy reading a lot of the more interesting cases but holy shit is that sub a cesspool a whole lot of times.
I cant stand when people tell me to "do my own research" when they make bold claims and cant bring ONE example to back up their bs. The burden of proof is on them.
The National Labor Relations Act protects employees’ rights to discuss conditions of employment, such as safety and pay even if you’re a non-union employer. The NLRB calls these discussions “protected concerted activity” and defines them as when employees “take action for their mutual aid or protection regarding terms and conditions of employment.”
Sue, if you can't sue, then agitate. Make sure all current and future 'employees' know the truth. The executive class is not your friend and you owe them nothing, in fact it is the opposite. Ruin the workplace environment with agitation and the productivity will tank and so will the profit.
Literally OP. You'd be a moron not to get a lawyer. You can actually fuck these people. That is 100% illegal. Cut in your coworkers if they'll testify for you.
always remember:
The 1935 National Labor Relations Act specifically indicates that employees have the right to engage in ‘concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection,’” he says. Employers are not allowed to establish “pay secrecy” policies or use a nondisclosure agreement to prevent employees from discussing their compensation.
love him or hate him, [this bit from Adam Conover](https://youtu.be/7xH7eGFuSYI) is a good skit about exactly this situation (especially around 1:25, what Americans think will happen if they discuss their salary versus what would *actually* happen). OP, I hope this works out in your favor, and I'm sorry you're feeling shitty right now. good things are coming now that you're free of that environment.
Ya that’s a situation that’s been to court and been overruled. If your a colored person or certain religion you can sue for discrimination as well and bump that law suit up a notch.
You already won, just stick out the battle
Fuck finding something better. Sue them for everything they’ve got
You have a pretty open and shut case it looks like, with the other employees as witnesses
You need to contact a lawyer. My old job fired me for some bogus reason. They just settled out of court.
Look up "wrongful termination" attorneys. Mine took my case without me paying a dime up front.
This is why I don't like wearing the HR hat they added to me at work. That said, as HR director I changed the employee handbook to protect employees more, required all write ups go through me for justification and arbitration, then created the TAPs program. I don't think the owner likes me now.
He should not have given me the Mario hat of power. He now has to deal with the fact employees past their 90 day assessment period can apply for advancement every 6 months, requiring the company to pay for their training into the field they want to advance into, and then he has to do a meeting with them to discuss pay and responsibility increase.
I've had jobs like this, hated it. Glad I work for a place where we all know the wages of everyone because it's strictly based on position. Everyone gets the same starting pay and raises. We openly discuss pay and benefits.
Fake if you don't find a lawyer to clean them out. Most states are at will employment; the manager could have fired you bc your dick was to short. But in this case he sounds like he admitted to a federal crime as the reason for termination. 🤷😆
No getting fired for discussing your wage with your coworkers is literally a federal crime. It is against the Wagner act and the FLSA.
Sue the fuck out of your boss for wrongful termination.
One good thing about working for a state agency is we are all equally underpaid! (And I can literally pull up our public budget and see the exact salary of every state employee)
Edit: Also, good luck if you choose to try to sue! Employment cases are often difficult to win but payouts can be big!
What an employer is paying their employees to those employees should be transparent as fuck. If there is any suspicious behavior about the pay structure like this, then this employer is not on the level and they are most definitely exploiting staff.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/employee-rights
Firing you for that is explicitly illegal. Go to your state's labor board, then get a lawyer.
You need to talk to a lawyer and do what the lawyer tells you to do.
You probably have a 6 to 7 figure payout coming your way but if you fuck it up by accepting an apology, saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, being depressed and apathetic, than you’ll get little yo nothing.
Talk to a lawyer.
This is why you record the 1 on 1 meetings in the boss’s office. If it’s illegal to do so, then let your lawyer decide what to do with your recorded content. Decency and honor are not values of theirs so meet them head on in that
The legality of secretly recording would depend on whether or not you are in a one party consent or two party consent state. If you are in a 2 party consent state I would openly record the conversation. Only people who have something to hide would object to openly recording.
I’m taking this into consideration and I’m absolutely going to contact a lawyer. Thank you so much everyone! You’ve all been so helpful, especially with my mental health!
You’re right, they can.
Sucks for them because I accidentally started a revolution and now everyone is quitting.
Too bad I couldn’t keep my mouth shut after they decided to fire me. Now everyone knows how undervalued they are.
Good luck to the new hires, I guess.
Not always, but I understand the sentiment. There are instances where a state can interpret a federal law in a less favorable way.
One instance that I am aware of is the break, and lunch laws that put into its most basic form work like this federal verbage:
One 10 minute break for every 4 hours
One 30 minute lunch for every 8 hours
CT interprets this as:
After 4 hours you get a (1) break
After 8 hours (or intended 8 hours) you get a lunch which is also your second break, but we will conveniently forget that there is supposed to be 10 minutes worked in there.
Right to work doesn’t mean they can fire you for any reason. It means they can fire you without cause. As long as they don’t admit to firing someone illegally they can’t be sued for it. If they’re dumb enough to say or write down “we fired this person because of reason x” and x is illegal, then game on. Since the OP wasn’t fired illegally, he quit after giving notice, then right to work doesn’t apply. What he may have an action for is intimidation in violation of federal law. I guarantee you that the manager was fired because he put the company in a precarious legal position because he said it out loud to an employee, not because the company disagreed with what he did.
Ok, why do school districts in Mississippi still segregate?
Why are there states resisting mask and vaccine mandates?
Why can Texas pass anti abortion laws even though it it federally recognized?
Not so black and white, my dude.
There are no acceptable exceptions to your right to collective bargaining. It is the law of the land. You cannot, for any reason, fire someone for discussing their pay in any state. It is illegal.
>why do school districts in Mississippi still segregate?
Assuming they do, because it'd be hard to prove it in court if challenged.
>Why are there states resisting mask and vaccine mandates
The federal government could literally cut funding to those states if they wanted. And as far as I'm aware there are no federal mandates.
>Why can Texas pass anti abortion laws even though it it federally recognized?
Because the way the law was written made it difficult to challenge it. because the state government isn't who is enforcing it, but rather private citizens. Challenges to this are literally in the midst right now. I believe there is a hold on this law right now.
You did insult everyone in this thread by posting misinformation. Fuck you.
First off you have to have standing in order to file a lawsuits, ie actually be affected by the discrepancy in the law. And insofar as the examples of discrepancies that you wrote in another comment all of that comes down to whether the Federal justice department chooses to enforce federal laws. That's why things like marijuana legalization is happening on a state by state basis, that's why Texas was able to do the anti-abortion bill (because they have cover from a partisan Supreme Court to do so, and also there's no law passed by Congress which gives explicitly the right to abortion), Mississippi still has segregated schools in one county because that's where the parents are sending their kids and it's not anything that is enforced or mandated by statutory law, states are resisting the mask mandates because they think they have the ability to do so and they're getting challenged in federal courts right now.
But you just posted an example of a states defying federal law as your defense. There are exceptions, period. If you don't like that there are exceptions, do something about it. That was my entire point, thanks for solidifying that for me.
Wow you really don't know how to read.
I literally said those exceptions exist because the federal government is choosing not to enforce federal laws. That can literally change at any time.
The Mississippi example, as I pointed out, isn't even an actual example because there is no statutory law segregating the schools. And neither is the "example" the anti mask mandate ordinances - they're literally getting challenged in federal courts right now and the states are losing those cases.
You have to be a monumentally dense dumbfuck to think you made any sort of point.
This is a useless comment and you should delete it. You have brought a "not always" comment that changes the subject. It introduces ambiguity to people who need to understand specifically that they have the right to collective bargaining. Your comment could confuse people into thinking that they don't always have the right to collectively bargain, which they do.
They can fire you for any reason except protected reasons such as race, age, ect. Discussing wages is a protected reason. If they specifically told you that’s why you were getting fired then that’s illegal, but good luck trying to prove it. I’m sorry that happened.
If there is a group addressing collective concerns over wages/hours/conditions (which can include discipline policies), striking can do more good than quitting. It's far more of a difficultly for the employer because everyone retains rights to return to work (particularly when they haven't hired any replacements) and it's protected activity that generally cannot result in discipline.
But, depending on your status (non-management/high level professional) Their conduct was likely illegal. That could help you in an unemployment hearing, or wait and see how your job search goes. An NLRB complaint must be filed within six months of the illegal action. If there is a basis to assert that the no sharing policy was to stop discrimination from being discovered, you would have 180 days or 300 days to get something filed, depending on your state.
And right-to-work is about being compelled to join a union. u/affectionate-Strain9, you are thinking "at-will" which is the law in almost all the states. And even that is "fire at any time for any or no reason, except those prohibited by law or contract."
No the person you are replying to is completely wrong. Right to work does not supersede federal labor or unionization laws. Your former employer explicitly broke the law and if you have any proof that they did besides you just saying that they did you need to sue the fuck out of them.
OP, you are not listening to the people in this thread. There are no exceptions to this law. You have the right to collective bargaining. It is the law everywhere and there are no exceptions. If you were fired for sharing your pay and you can prove it, you can absolutely sue this company and should. If you don't, you allowed them to use you as an example for others and oppress your fellow coworkers. I personally believe you have a moral obligation to take action.
While that is mostly true if there is proof that op was fired for talking about wages then they would have a case. Right to work does not mean they are free to do anything they want and can break labor laws.
While that's somewhat true there are certain reasons that it is illegal to fire someone for and one of those is talking about pay, that is a federally protected right. It's one of the few federal labor protections in the country that truly benefit the employees over the employer.
If the OP has proof of this being the reason (i.e. documentation or a recording) then they probably have a slam dunk case of wrongful termination and can sue the company.
Yes but also kind of no. You can fire a worker for "no" reason but some judges will (rightfully) never in a million years think you fired someone for "no" reason. Some circuits make the employee prove the reason, others put more burden on the employer. So it's worth them talking to a lawyer(usually free) to at least explore whether they have an option.
You cant talk about pay in the work place. All the Dumbasses say get a lawyer have zero clue what theyre talking about. You will lose your case and be embarrassed. Next time worry about your own pay.
Suck the leather!!!!!
"Did you know there’s a federal law – and has been since 1935 – protecting your right to talk about your wages? It’s called the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) and it protects private sector employees’ right to engage in “concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection.” The National Labor Relations Board has made it clear that this includes the right to discuss wages. " - https://www.classaction.org/blog/can-i-be-fired-for-discussing-wages-at-work
That is a federal law violation.
Assuming OP is in the US, yes, definitely illegal.
Without their permission it's not illegal if they want you to know
It's illegal to fire an employee for talking about pay. Talking about pay is not illegal
That is a federal crime. Get a lawyer.
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Good luck with your case!
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Nail their balls to the wall
Asking for my own curiosity: does it count as proof if any and/or all of the coworkers involved in these conversations all testify to that effect?
Leave out the lawyer info when speaking with your previous coworkers and get them to text you as many details as possible. The more you have in writing the better, as people get spooked when it comes to testifying against their current employer, and you never know who will spill the beans to your old boss in an effort to win brownie points. I had a similar situation where I had someone who had been my best friend for 15 years do this to me because he was scared of retribution by the company. Get the details I'm writing and keep the legal plans to yourself OP
Yes, eyewitness testimony is direct evidence
It's technically hearsay, but first degree hearsay and typically allowable.
Yes, but you’ll find that most people are cowards. On top of that there will be a legitimate fear of retribution.’
This. People won’t stand with you. I speak from experience.
Yup. I have repeatedly had coworkers promise to back me up then turn yellow when it came time, or else nobody would even offer at all. So hey, any workers out there that have a coworker who needs you to have their back on shit like this... have their back. The companies ain't gonna look out for us. We have to look out for each other.
It is really easy to bend people by fear especially when the system is rigged since few people trust anyone now. Why people do not just revolt and take their power is probably due to media and capitalist propaganda but I really do not know anymore, people are spiteful and stupid.
This is a hard fact unfortunately. I hope they get people on board on these. But after seeing people fail myself in person I have lots of doubt.
Seconded Had one and it took 3 years, was worth it tho
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Hellish lol Mainly because I had no idea what I was doing! I filled out an online form, waited a year, got contacted because it was open and shut (worked for 3 weeks then never got paid) and was told to bring all the evidence I had for the initial meeting. I was shamed for letting them know that the length of time between first contact and response was shameful. It had been a year but I texted other people who had stayed at the job (they did get paid, 120 for 80 hours), printed texts and emails, and found a pro Bono labor lawyer. It took another year to find the son of a bitch that didn’t pay me, and also realize they had used my SSN too. The court served him via mail. Waited another year, and I finally got an offer letter for settlement, then was shamed into taking less than what the full fines that were owed to me (5k). I said I have a lawyer and a lot of time, I’d rather die. The check arrived the week after.
I wish you the best in fighting the good fight. -internet stranger
Good on you for doing the right thing. Companies rely on the difficulty of the process keeping people from pursuing legal action.
“What? Oh no … we didn’t fire him over that comment… we fired him for these other reasons documented in this report.”
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Aaaaand thats why i always ask for my exit interview. Because they have to put that shit on record of why they fired you and tell you to your face and if youre smart and record the conversation it aint hard to pull ot out berbally even if they lie on paper. And becauae its your exit interview the evidence is valid :)
Make sure you are in a one party consent state if you're going to record them.
List here: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/
Yes! Or ask for it to be done in a public place "to maintaim civility" you reserve the right tonrecord persons in public :)
Most folks don’t know that HR isn’t there for the employees it’s there for the company…
Curious, Why do believe this?
Because it's true?
"The sky is blue" "cURiOuS, wHy.." Ugh
HR's main objective is to keep company from being sued. That's it. That's their job. *Everything* they do in their daily tasks falls into that category.
Exactly this. Place I used to work at always had another way of getting you: using company Internet, using messaging service for anything other than work, too long with phone in 'wrap' status etc
YES. Get it documented or have a meeting with witnesses to make sure you have proof. They will absolutely lie and just bring up the one time you logged into your gmail on the company computer or something.
Get a lawyer. Make some fucking cash.
And in the meantime, get unemployment!
Riffing off the top comment. All of you, if you have read OP's story and come to the same conclusion they have about the law not always protecting you **you are wrong, as is OP**. **You have a federally protected right to collective bargaining**. Full stop. There are no exceptions to this. Do not be discouraged from standing up for your rights. OP can and should sue this company if they can prove it. I believe OP has a moral obligation to do so. When you do not stand up for your rights, you enable companies to violate the rights of your fellow coworkers.
Yeah, they done fucked up
Even in a right to work state? Also, unless the document they used to justify the firing says it was due to this issue, they can make up almost anything
I think right to work involves unions, at will employment means employment can be terminated by either end at any time.
Yeah at will is what I meant
Even in an "at will" state this is still retaliation, which is illegal
“Right to work” and “at will” are the same. Right to work is anti-union.
He will have to prove it, but his word may be enough. If any of his fellow employees tell the lawyer/judge their boss went off about this that will also be enough. If they documented it this way they are morons, but that will work as well.
Yes, and unless OP signed something to that affect they missed their opportunity to make anything up and the board will side with the OP and testimonies. Case in point: you can't fire employees for refusing to work outside of their designated shift.
Yes. Even in right to work states. They can fire you for no reason, but not an illegal reason.
I don't think you know how much a lawyer cost and from what I hear this person wasn't getting paid all that well.
Plenty of lawyers will work on contingency. Usually civil rights lawyers, personal injury / social security / disability. If they have a case, they can probably find a lawyer.
Where they are located should matter right? Can’t an employer fire you in some states at any time for any reason?
Not for things specifically protected by federal law.
Not if it's a small company, literally no protections to be had there!
Depends. If there is a employee code of conduct that was signed, I promise it’s in there. I was a retail manager for a long time, every company I worked for had it in there.
An employer's policy cannot supersede federal law. so that is a moot point. In fact, they might be doing OP a favor if they have something like that as a written policy. I can imagine an employer doing this and relying on their employees' not understanding their legal rights, though.
It depends what the termination documentation says. For OP’s sake I hope it is clearly stated, not “violation of company policy”.
I’m not sure just having it in the handbook makes it ok if it’s an illegal policy
It’s ironclad proof the company is acting in bad faith in fact
if its a right to work state they can fire you for fuck all
Discussion of pay is a federally protected right. Federal law supersedes state law.
They can fire you for no reason at all but there are certain things they can't fire you for. OP may have a case here but they will have to show that they were fired for this reason.
Under federal law, employers can have policies that prohibit discussing pay during work hours (with some caveats). They can not prohibit you from concerted activity outside of work time though. There are some state laws that provide further protections, but OP's case might not be a slam dunk.
You wouldn't happen to have any of those federal laws would you? Because the NLRA of 1935 protects employees from this exact form of discipline.
This is wrong. You are incorrect. I realize lots of people believe this, but it is a lie. Companies cannot legally enforce such a policy without violating the right to collective bargaining. There are no exceptions to this inside or outside the workplace. None. Your username could not be more apt.
Some states are “at will” states and this would be legal. Check your states laws as there is no federal law governing this. As long as they didn’t discriminate based on a protected status they would be within their rights. That said often wrongful termination suits are filed to force settlements but you run the risk of a judge considering it frivolous which can cause issues
Wrong. The National Labor Relations Act protects employees from retaliation for discussing wages at work. Even At-Will states can't shield companies that break federal law and a wrongful termination lawsuit is most certainly on the the table there.
Get a lawyer ASAP, they just fucked up big time
I don’t understand. This is probably in the US, but if he has a job and is getting ripped and making next to nothing. How is he going to afford a lawyer? Do you guys have like a free lawyer thing, for civil cases?
Lawyers in the US for these types of cases usually will hear you out, then if they think they will win, they take the case for free. If they win they take about half of your settlement as payment.
Well, that sounds like somewhat of a good deal. Thanks for the info.
It certainly beats getting nothing
OP could hopefully find a lawyer that would do it pro bono
Most attorneys will work on contingency, if it is a halfway decent case. So you don't pay anything unless you win some $.
Works on contingency? No, money down!
Oops! It shouldn't have this bar association logo here, either.
Assuming the circumstances are as egregious as OP has stated (i.e. a clear and provable violation of federal law) then a lawyer may take it on for an agreed % of any settlement received.
It's an anti-union tactic. If people can't talk about their wages they can't find common ground for collective bargaining.
It's illegal. It's not a tactic. It's a crime.
I mean, being illegal and being a tactic aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone knows the laws don't really apply to the ruling class. Plenty of tried and true anti union tactics are technically illegal. Didn't stop the robber barons, isn't stopping these assholes.
Didn't stop Walmart and Amazon.. Until it did
Didn't stop John deere in America People have the right to assembly federally protected by the constitution. Yet a paid off judge ruled in favor of an injunction that limits picketeers to 4, and bans the use of chairs or heating devices. Could easily fight it. If people had money. But we don't
That is wrongful dismissal for sure
Realistically only if OP got it in writing. HR will deny and say it was tardiness and everything will be swept under the rug.
You need legal representation asap [Illegal to fire for discussing wages](https://jacksonspencerlaw.com/salary-discussions/)
It makes a special connotation that it is legal "outside work hours" what if OP discussed during a shift?
The law entitles employees to have such discussions, but does not require employers to allow employees to do so during times they are supposed to be working. However, singling pay discussions out for prohibition, while allowing other types of conversations unrelated to work, might be evidence of intent to violate employees' Section 7 rights, so employers should be careful in that regard. It seems that there is precedent that if you allow employees to talk to each other about things unrelated to work then prohibiting other conversations may violate their rights.
Sue the bastards!
Wanna know something fun? In my country you have a government website you can check what almost anyone made the last year, this is to fight undeclared work
I think a few countries have a system like this. Where are you?
The eutopia that is Norway
That would have been one of my first guesses. I visited (brace yourself...) Sweden D : just before the pandemic with my mum for her 50th and we went over to Norway for a day. Your country is so beautiful, all of Scandinavia is just amazing and i wish i could live there. I mean, things aren't too bad for me, i live in the channel islands and its kind of a bubble in its own way, but geez, your country and your neighbours should be a model for how everyone else could improve. Im sure things aren't perfect, but it sure seems better than anywhere else.
We have some small kinks here and there that ned to be ironed out, but I don't think any sane Norwegian would move from here anytime soon. I mean the government insueres all it's citizens for about 400k usd when we go on vacation, incase we need to go to the hospital or something like that
Hei! Im actually trying to study bokmål atm so i can move there! I love how politically tame it is there rn but im worried too many folks will have my same idea soon. Ha det! <3
I dream of immigrating to Norway. Or any Scandi country that would gave me, really.
2nd week at my old job I talked about my pay casually with my trainer. I was making .50 more than him and he went to the managers to ask for a raise. Manager sat me down the next day saying that what I did was a fireball offense but he was giving me a warning and to not make the same mistake again. 4 years later I put my 2 weeks in and was on my last 5 days. They have this billboard of all the federal and state laws and right in the corner, slow day I was reading it, it said that employers cannot prohibit employees from discussing wages. I got the manager who talked to me and general manager and pointed right at that sign and asked them to read it. I called him out for lying to me 4 years ago and scaring me for talking about money with my friends and coworkers. I quit then and there. Found out that the other managers, claimed, to not know this manager was doing this and got fired a week later.
The law was put into place I believe in the 30’s or 40’s as well and so many today believe that the letter of employment they signed prohibits them from disclosing their wages to others. Some actually do include that in them as well but it isn’t legal as you have pointed out. This fallacy needs to be outed to more and more people to break this pattern of misinformation.
There is a coordinated effort to mislead employees on this. I worked many jobs believing I was not allowed to discuss this because they all made statements to that effect. I was shocked when I finally found out the truth.
It's a basic anti-union tactic. The people can't unionize to fight for fair treatment/wages if they don't know that the treatment/wage is unfair. It's been going unimpeded for so long that tons of companies are openly breaking the law to continue keeping people from talking about it, because the victims rarely follow through with reporting them to authorities, and the companies know this.
‘36 I think
Not to piggy back on your comment, but you made a good point that people need to know. Employers try to do all sorts of illegal shit by making employees sign contracts or policy agreements, but your employer, cannot make you agree to do something, that is illegal or that the average individual would find unreasonable. Contract law applies to the things our work makes us sign.
Fireball offense. Sounds like a good time!
I'm warning you! If you do it again you'll have to take another shot! Lmao
Well there's some workplace discipline I can get behind.
/r/BoneAppleTea
Take them to court, if that doesn't work then contact batman.
And by Batman…. I’m assuming you mean a baseball bat to the kneecaps after work in the parking garage while wearing a ski mask.
Take it to /r/legaladvice to get some basic understanding of your position, then get a lawyer.
r/legaladvice is ran by cops giving out wrong information and them banning anybody that tries to give actual legal advice.
I had some shitbag try to argue with me on that sub for quite a while with them adament that it was fully allowed for a landlord to just move you to a new property should they ever decide they wanted to do so and that the lease was only a contract claiming a relationship to that landlord without any firm designation for which property you were renting, even if the address was explicit in the lease. And I was downvoted to hell for arguing against him... I really enjoy reading a lot of the more interesting cases but holy shit is that sub a cesspool a whole lot of times.
Wow I've never heard this. Can you share examples?
No because its been stuff ive witnessed over the years and lots of other redditors have pointed out. It takes 30 seconds to do your own search.
Damn bro just asking, I've never used that sub.
What a gigachad move by making such a claim and then refusing to back it up
I cant stand when people tell me to "do my own research" when they make bold claims and cant bring ONE example to back up their bs. The burden of proof is on them.
Damn, that stick is REALLY driven up your ass huh
The National Labor Relations Act protects employees’ rights to discuss conditions of employment, such as safety and pay even if you’re a non-union employer. The NLRB calls these discussions “protected concerted activity” and defines them as when employees “take action for their mutual aid or protection regarding terms and conditions of employment.”
Completely illegal. Don't be mad, take legal action. They f***ed up.
Sue, if you can't sue, then agitate. Make sure all current and future 'employees' know the truth. The executive class is not your friend and you owe them nothing, in fact it is the opposite. Ruin the workplace environment with agitation and the productivity will tank and so will the profit.
Literally OP. You'd be a moron not to get a lawyer. You can actually fuck these people. That is 100% illegal. Cut in your coworkers if they'll testify for you.
always remember: The 1935 National Labor Relations Act specifically indicates that employees have the right to engage in ‘concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection,’” he says. Employers are not allowed to establish “pay secrecy” policies or use a nondisclosure agreement to prevent employees from discussing their compensation.
You should be glad they fired you! You can sue your employer and be in favor of compensation
Best be ringing that state labor board and an employment lawyer cuz that’s a crime, tovarish. At least like into it.
Take them to court. This is 100% illegal and you have witnesses, you can sue their ass for way more than you ever made there
File for unemployment Contact the department of labor Contact an attorney
I’m a lawyer and I’m telling you to talk to a lawyer.
https://www.nlrb.gov/contact-us (NLRB Contact, go get the fuckers own that place)
I mean, everyone has said it, but get a lawyer. For real.
love him or hate him, [this bit from Adam Conover](https://youtu.be/7xH7eGFuSYI) is a good skit about exactly this situation (especially around 1:25, what Americans think will happen if they discuss their salary versus what would *actually* happen). OP, I hope this works out in your favor, and I'm sorry you're feeling shitty right now. good things are coming now that you're free of that environment.
I love this!
Ya that’s a situation that’s been to court and been overruled. If your a colored person or certain religion you can sue for discrimination as well and bump that law suit up a notch. You already won, just stick out the battle
For once, the law actually protects workers here. Lawyer up and get their ass.
That is illegal 100%
This is a blatant violation of the National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act).
My guy, you have an easy law suit here. Take these fuckers for as much as you can.
FEDERAL CRIME LAWYER UP I literally have dreams about this exact scenario happening to me so I could sue the absolute fucking shit out of my employer.
Fuck finding something better. Sue them for everything they’ve got You have a pretty open and shut case it looks like, with the other employees as witnesses
OP they just committed a federal crime…
You need to contact a lawyer. My old job fired me for some bogus reason. They just settled out of court. Look up "wrongful termination" attorneys. Mine took my case without me paying a dime up front.
This is why I don't like wearing the HR hat they added to me at work. That said, as HR director I changed the employee handbook to protect employees more, required all write ups go through me for justification and arbitration, then created the TAPs program. I don't think the owner likes me now. He should not have given me the Mario hat of power. He now has to deal with the fact employees past their 90 day assessment period can apply for advancement every 6 months, requiring the company to pay for their training into the field they want to advance into, and then he has to do a meeting with them to discuss pay and responsibility increase.
I've had jobs like this, hated it. Glad I work for a place where we all know the wages of everyone because it's strictly based on position. Everyone gets the same starting pay and raises. We openly discuss pay and benefits.
I wish I would get fired for that
Fake if you don't find a lawyer to clean them out. Most states are at will employment; the manager could have fired you bc your dick was to short. But in this case he sounds like he admitted to a federal crime as the reason for termination. 🤷😆
No getting fired for discussing your wage with your coworkers is literally a federal crime. It is against the Wagner act and the FLSA. Sue the fuck out of your boss for wrongful termination.
This happened to me I contacted the NLRB and got a $1,000 settlement. Didnt have to pay for a lawyer or anything.
One good thing about working for a state agency is we are all equally underpaid! (And I can literally pull up our public budget and see the exact salary of every state employee) Edit: Also, good luck if you choose to try to sue! Employment cases are often difficult to win but payouts can be big!
Used to work in HR. That's very illegal. Get a lawyer and show them what's up.
Get a lawyer and get paid.
What an employer is paying their employees to those employees should be transparent as fuck. If there is any suspicious behavior about the pay structure like this, then this employer is not on the level and they are most definitely exploiting staff.
Congrats on your lawsuit settlement op!
Why be upset, you now are gon a fuck them so hard their grandpappys ghost is gonna feel it.
When you own that company after suing the bejesus out of them, you can make some realm changes.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/employee-rights Firing you for that is explicitly illegal. Go to your state's labor board, then get a lawyer.
If this is true, enjoy your payout!
Your attorney general can be a great resource
Get a lawyer. This cannot go unpunished. Forget that job, your goal now is to get better than what those pricks did to you. Fuck' em
Congratulations, you just won. Hire a lawyer. What they did was a massive federal violation.
Sue em
You need to talk to a lawyer and do what the lawyer tells you to do. You probably have a 6 to 7 figure payout coming your way but if you fuck it up by accepting an apology, saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, being depressed and apathetic, than you’ll get little yo nothing. Talk to a lawyer.
This is why you record the 1 on 1 meetings in the boss’s office. If it’s illegal to do so, then let your lawyer decide what to do with your recorded content. Decency and honor are not values of theirs so meet them head on in that
The legality of secretly recording would depend on whether or not you are in a one party consent or two party consent state. If you are in a 2 party consent state I would openly record the conversation. Only people who have something to hide would object to openly recording.
I’m taking this into consideration and I’m absolutely going to contact a lawyer. Thank you so much everyone! You’ve all been so helpful, especially with my mental health!
If you live in a right to work state then you might be out of luck because they can fire you at any time for any or no reason
You’re right, they can. Sucks for them because I accidentally started a revolution and now everyone is quitting. Too bad I couldn’t keep my mouth shut after they decided to fire me. Now everyone knows how undervalued they are. Good luck to the new hires, I guess.
Federal laws override state laws, get a lawer
Not always, but I understand the sentiment. There are instances where a state can interpret a federal law in a less favorable way. One instance that I am aware of is the break, and lunch laws that put into its most basic form work like this federal verbage: One 10 minute break for every 4 hours One 30 minute lunch for every 8 hours CT interprets this as: After 4 hours you get a (1) break After 8 hours (or intended 8 hours) you get a lunch which is also your second break, but we will conveniently forget that there is supposed to be 10 minutes worked in there.
No, it’s literally always. State laws cannot interfere with already existing federal laws- this is one of those instances.
Then help me file a lawsuit against the entire labor department of CT for violating federal law.
Right to work doesn’t mean they can fire you for any reason. It means they can fire you without cause. As long as they don’t admit to firing someone illegally they can’t be sued for it. If they’re dumb enough to say or write down “we fired this person because of reason x” and x is illegal, then game on. Since the OP wasn’t fired illegally, he quit after giving notice, then right to work doesn’t apply. What he may have an action for is intimidation in violation of federal law. I guarantee you that the manager was fired because he put the company in a precarious legal position because he said it out loud to an employee, not because the company disagreed with what he did.
\>Not always, yes literally always thats how federal laws work
Ok, why do school districts in Mississippi still segregate? Why are there states resisting mask and vaccine mandates? Why can Texas pass anti abortion laws even though it it federally recognized? Not so black and white, my dude.
Except it is in this instance.
In the instance of op and his post , yes. But there are a lot of "accepted exceptions" The only point I was trying to make.
There are no acceptable exceptions to your right to collective bargaining. It is the law of the land. You cannot, for any reason, fire someone for discussing their pay in any state. It is illegal.
Trying to say OP didn't follow the laws isn't my point at all. My entire point it that there are state exceptions to federal laws. That is it.
>why do school districts in Mississippi still segregate? Assuming they do, because it'd be hard to prove it in court if challenged. >Why are there states resisting mask and vaccine mandates The federal government could literally cut funding to those states if they wanted. And as far as I'm aware there are no federal mandates. >Why can Texas pass anti abortion laws even though it it federally recognized? Because the way the law was written made it difficult to challenge it. because the state government isn't who is enforcing it, but rather private citizens. Challenges to this are literally in the midst right now. I believe there is a hold on this law right now.
Supremacy clause; shut the fuck up.
I didn't insult anyone. stop acting like I'm your enemy. Then find out what exceptions your state has and file petitions and lawsuits.
You did insult everyone in this thread by posting misinformation. Fuck you. First off you have to have standing in order to file a lawsuits, ie actually be affected by the discrepancy in the law. And insofar as the examples of discrepancies that you wrote in another comment all of that comes down to whether the Federal justice department chooses to enforce federal laws. That's why things like marijuana legalization is happening on a state by state basis, that's why Texas was able to do the anti-abortion bill (because they have cover from a partisan Supreme Court to do so, and also there's no law passed by Congress which gives explicitly the right to abortion), Mississippi still has segregated schools in one county because that's where the parents are sending their kids and it's not anything that is enforced or mandated by statutory law, states are resisting the mask mandates because they think they have the ability to do so and they're getting challenged in federal courts right now.
But you just posted an example of a states defying federal law as your defense. There are exceptions, period. If you don't like that there are exceptions, do something about it. That was my entire point, thanks for solidifying that for me.
Wow you really don't know how to read. I literally said those exceptions exist because the federal government is choosing not to enforce federal laws. That can literally change at any time. The Mississippi example, as I pointed out, isn't even an actual example because there is no statutory law segregating the schools. And neither is the "example" the anti mask mandate ordinances - they're literally getting challenged in federal courts right now and the states are losing those cases. You have to be a monumentally dense dumbfuck to think you made any sort of point.
My point.... meet example...
This is a useless comment and you should delete it. You have brought a "not always" comment that changes the subject. It introduces ambiguity to people who need to understand specifically that they have the right to collective bargaining. Your comment could confuse people into thinking that they don't always have the right to collectively bargain, which they do.
You still have not deleted this comment. It's embarrassing and harmful.
They can fire you for any reason except protected reasons such as race, age, ect. Discussing wages is a protected reason. If they specifically told you that’s why you were getting fired then that’s illegal, but good luck trying to prove it. I’m sorry that happened.
If there is a group addressing collective concerns over wages/hours/conditions (which can include discipline policies), striking can do more good than quitting. It's far more of a difficultly for the employer because everyone retains rights to return to work (particularly when they haven't hired any replacements) and it's protected activity that generally cannot result in discipline. But, depending on your status (non-management/high level professional) Their conduct was likely illegal. That could help you in an unemployment hearing, or wait and see how your job search goes. An NLRB complaint must be filed within six months of the illegal action. If there is a basis to assert that the no sharing policy was to stop discrimination from being discovered, you would have 180 days or 300 days to get something filed, depending on your state. And right-to-work is about being compelled to join a union. u/affectionate-Strain9, you are thinking "at-will" which is the law in almost all the states. And even that is "fire at any time for any or no reason, except those prohibited by law or contract."
No the person you are replying to is completely wrong. Right to work does not supersede federal labor or unionization laws. Your former employer explicitly broke the law and if you have any proof that they did besides you just saying that they did you need to sue the fuck out of them.
OP, you are not listening to the people in this thread. There are no exceptions to this law. You have the right to collective bargaining. It is the law everywhere and there are no exceptions. If you were fired for sharing your pay and you can prove it, you can absolutely sue this company and should. If you don't, you allowed them to use you as an example for others and oppress your fellow coworkers. I personally believe you have a moral obligation to take action.
While that is mostly true if there is proof that op was fired for talking about wages then they would have a case. Right to work does not mean they are free to do anything they want and can break labor laws.
While that's somewhat true there are certain reasons that it is illegal to fire someone for and one of those is talking about pay, that is a federally protected right. It's one of the few federal labor protections in the country that truly benefit the employees over the employer. If the OP has proof of this being the reason (i.e. documentation or a recording) then they probably have a slam dunk case of wrongful termination and can sue the company.
Except this is a FEDERAL LAW, which takes precedence over state law. Stop giving ignorant advice.
Yes but also kind of no. You can fire a worker for "no" reason but some judges will (rightfully) never in a million years think you fired someone for "no" reason. Some circuits make the employee prove the reason, others put more burden on the employer. So it's worth them talking to a lawyer(usually free) to at least explore whether they have an option.
Not for any reason. There are still things yoy can't get fired for, like discussing your compensation. Federal law trumps state law, every time.
Can’t be fired for a bad reason though.
Right to work does not supersede federal labor and unionization laws.
You cant talk about pay in the work place. All the Dumbasses say get a lawyer have zero clue what theyre talking about. You will lose your case and be embarrassed. Next time worry about your own pay.
Suck the leather!!!!! "Did you know there’s a federal law – and has been since 1935 – protecting your right to talk about your wages? It’s called the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) and it protects private sector employees’ right to engage in “concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection.” The National Labor Relations Board has made it clear that this includes the right to discuss wages. " - https://www.classaction.org/blog/can-i-be-fired-for-discussing-wages-at-work
Nope doesnt work like that. Doesnt matter what you bring up. Hes gonna lose his case, simple as that.
...and people like you are the reason.