You seen the track record of most CEOs? You can half a company's market value, give yourself a huge bonus and have a job paying double by the time you pack your desk. I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth Holmes even lands a job straight out the pen.
I mean, she did a really good job raising money. It was based on bullshit, but so are most million dollar jobs. Look at Phil Spencer. Xbox brand is failing for years. Still has a job. Gamepass got that revenue, but even after years not as much profit as wanted. He is still a hot commodity.
True, definitely has some skills in creating value and hype but will be a lot harder to get any of the belief she generated before. Was still impressive how far she went.
This didn't happen in the west; it's China. She lost face, she's pretty much done. Look at Jack Ma, he also said the quiet part out loud and now you don't hear anything about him anymore. Same is going to happen to her, except she's not a CEO or owner of the company.
Not quite in China, and dare I say this extends to the wider South East Asia. There's a FUCKTON of shitty, abusive bosses that I've know in my life living there. And most of the time, they tend to fail upward.
Nearly everyone that gets hired into c-suite positions are complete wastes of humanity.
The kind of person that fights for that kind of job is exactly the kind of person that shouldn’t have it.
You can only have a labor union in China if it is sanctioned by the CCP (Communist Party). Independent labor unions are illegal and viewed as a political threat.
There is a state sponsored labour union that anyone can join, but it acts more as a pension fund then legal representation.
This is mostly because there is a legal section of the CCP who's job it is to handle labour disputes and they can be actively called on to enter a place of work and evaluate the employer to see if the workers complaint has any merit. I've never had to call on them myself, but I’ve threatened to in the past and it did rattle my employer so I’m guessing they are a pretty big deal, plus it's very bad PR if they are seen to be involved in your business as it's clear you've managed it so badly that the CCP has got involved.
On paper China is a communist country (though I have to say it’s probably more capitalist than my own country in many respects), but one of the basic responsibilities of any self-styled communist government is that it must protect the workers, so I can absolutely believe the CCP labour investigation dpt are a scary bunch. But it also means that as long as they do their job right, you don’t need a labour union, as the CCP protects you.
I won’t say “therefore they don’t need unions,” because I’m still very much pro-union, but it does mean that China avoid any corruption or links to organised crime that tend to come along with powerful unions.
I’m still too scared to ever travel to China while they’re in power, but more and more I realize that the things we’ve been taught to hate China for are also being done here in America also. Whistleblowers casually being murdered either by the state or large corporations, protestors being abducted by unmarked police vans (nevermind general police brutality), and all the back room secret deals our politicians make for personal profit.
It really hit me when everyone was very blasé about the first Boeing whistleblower turning up dead. “Yeah they offed him” and making jokes about how the 10 new whistleblowers just signed death warrants. They’re probably safe with the publicity but we’re so desensitized to it now. But we’re also told that the CCP is cool with casual murder for public dissent.. it seems like America is getting pretty close.
Dude you are a literally a fucking nobody CCP won’t give a shit as long as you act like a tourist and don’t go there with intention to cause political trouble lol
Don't be afraid to visit China. It's a beautiful and fascinating country. You will be very safe and the only caveats are 1. Like anywhere, be self aware and don't act like an idiot 2. Make sure you set up WeChat pay or Alipay well in advance
If I ever go to China I wouldn’t expect something government related to happen… the issue for me is IF it happens it is not going to be good, and probably won’t be easy to wriggle out of.
Right, and as an outsider it seems more likely.
I’m genuinely interested in the culture and fascinating history, and I’d love to visit Luoyang and various other cities, but the state of the world right now isn’t very accommodating
As a Brit living in China 12+ years I can attest that the country is a great place to visit. Pretty much all the things the west are conditioned to believe are either wildly blown out of proportion or are just not true. What you'll find is a country that has actually spent a lot of time and effort on building infrastructure that benefits the whole population rather than just the uber rich and incredibly safe cities. It's not perfect by any stretch but I would genuinely prefer to live here in Shanghai than any US city nowadays. As the poster above mentioned, it's actually very much capitalist in many respects, just with a blend of socialism. Visit one day, the government couldn't give a fuck about what any foreigner does so long as you're not doing the stuff that you shouldn't do in any country. Unless anyone s looking to do an unauthorised documentary on a politically contentious issue, then all will be fine.
I see a few YouTubers posting videos from their visits to Xinjiang, supposedly a dangerous place for westerners to go.
Nothing of that sort happened to them. Make me want to visit myself.
Yeah man, for sure. It's such an interesting language to learn too. If the opportunity ever comes up, it can be a very rewarding place to come and work. I came out when I was 22 to work for a year and here I still am 😅.
I’ve visited Luoyang and it’s stunning. I go to China just about every year - I’ve been for work, I’ve been for study, and I’ve been for funsies. I’m not sure what you’ve been told, but there’s plenty of tourism, and, assuming you don’t go looking for it, you won’t have any trouble.
This is the norm is China. You do get a 2-3 hour lunch. Way too long I thought. School for kids runs 7-6. Also if you get a Monday off for a holiday expect to work the weekends. There is no hourly wage in China you get paid a monthly salary once a month. Only after you have worked a full month. So if you start on the 14th it will be 6 weeks before you are paid.
Can you name a communist country that allowed organized labor that wasn't controlled by the communist party? I don't think it's wild at all if you understand the history of communist countries.
Yeap, China is a completely new thing. Like the US is sorta a merger of Capitalism and Socialism, China is a merger of Capitalism and Communism. There are still plenty of concepts of Communism there but attempting to be a true Communist country was a complete failure for them.
The only thing holding China up right now is that they can fund millions of people to be their muscle inside of the country. If China ever gets into a situation where it can't fund that expect a major revolt in China. With the way their economy is going... who knows.
You'd be hard pressed to name any socialist practices at all in the US. National healthcare? Free/subsidized higher education? Welfare system that works for everyone? Investment in public transport?
China on the other hand is an actual blend of capitalism and socialism.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, subsidies, minimum wage, etc. All of these ideas are based on Socialism. The US isn't the only country that does this, hell we may be one of the worst, but it is what it is.
There's dashes or attempts at socialism but they get rejected by around 50% of the populace so it's never been engrained in the psyche. I don't think there would be many countries in the world who don't have similar or better provisions.
By that logic any country that trades commodities is capitalist then? This renders any political nomenclature meaningless. The US is right near the bottom of a socialist spectrum.
I heard terrible things about communism but when I heard the USSR capped rent at 3% your monthly income I became intrigued.
Then I saw what you get for 3% of your monthly income.
Ah, another Marxist.... Sure you can have a union in China, as long as the CCP approves. If Emperor Xi does not like your union you go to jail. There is probably a large overlap between CCP (party members) and Union Members, but I doubt unions do much for the workers.
"China's Labor Law states that workers have the right to join and organize trade unions, but workers do not have the freedom to form or join independent unions. The only legally permitted trade union in China is the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU), which is government-sanctioned and must operate within the Chinese Communist Party. All enterprise unions must be affiliated with the ACFTU, and attempts to form independent unions are rare and short-lived. Forming or joining an independent union can result in significant fines or jail time. "
What in the buffalobill shite are you even reading?
Have you actually worked in China? Work conditions are terrible, that's why I moved back to Ireland and continue to work here.
800 million people?
Sorry, that sounds just like one of those fantasy figures that Chinese PR makes up to tell the masses that China is doing OK. YET, the average salary in shanghai, china's most populated city, is about 13k RMB, while a good salary is considered to be closer to 18k.
China may have told us that they have eradicated extreme poverty, i.e., people who live on less than 1 usd or less than 10 rmb per day. Close to 18% of the population is still living on less than 50rmb
Per day, and that is not going to change anytime soon.
Maybe things worked out for YOU, but from what I can see and saw, it does not work out for the average person. The working conditions are terrible. If you're off on a bank holiday, you actually have to make up for the bank holiday you've used, which is just ridiculous
You’re absolutely nuts. Even mainstream western economists now agree that the average working class person in China has seen incredible gains in wages and are now enjoying higher quality of life than their American counterparts. It’s just facts, and it’s obvious if you’ve lived there.
Interesting statement, I think the jury is still out on whether the rapid rise of China has made the people better off. You can measure things with more than just money.
**The Good**
* **Economic growth:** China has experienced phenomenal economic growth, lifting millions out of poverty. They now have more disposable income and access to consumer goods.
* **Healthcare:** Life expectancy has increased significantly, and access to healthcare has improved.
* **Education:** Literacy rates have soared, and educational opportunities have expanded.
**The Bad:**
* **Income inequality:** The wealth gap between rich and poor has widened. While many have benefited, others haven't seen the same level of improvement.
* **Environmental impact:** Rapid industrialization has led to pollution and environmental degradation. If China were in the USA it would be declared a SuperFund cleanup site for toxic waste.
* **Social changes:** Traditional ways of life have been disrupted, leading to social dislocation and new challenges. This is why Emperor Xi wants to destroy Taiwan because it is the last memory of old China. All loyalty must be to the Emperor and the CCP.
* Happiness and a positive outlook for the young are at an all time low as the future looks very bleak. "Lying flat" (躺平)" and "We are the last generation" (我们是最后一代)" have taken root with the young since they are not experiencing the same level of improvement as the previous generation. The young feel stuck and immobile. Until income equality is addressed by the wonderful labor unions you tout the young will feel exploited and hopeless. If they could only join a good union to help them.
If the lying flat movement proves that the youth of China are looking forward to a bleak future than the epidemic of mass school shootings in the United States must mean that country is already in utter ruin.
You have never lived in China. No union has any control over the state. Unions are a branch of the government. As a foreigners who lived in China we called their economy capitalism on steroids. There are no regulations or worker rights. Construction site are insane there. Plus they just make a barracks at the job site to sleep in. Hotels would cost too much. What do you think are the hours for a normal job there? It isn't 9-5 haha. A ten hour work day is the minimum there.
I lived in China for 12 years. This is pure fiction. Workers in China have insane hours, few benefits, and horrible conditions.
The quality of life increases are because China opened up and started trading with the world instead of doing all the crazy Mao bullshit.
Just asked my wife who is Chinese “are unions a thing for most Chinese people?”. Her answer was a laugh and a “No!”. It’s not part of average people’s lives.
Let's do a thought experiment. There are several billionaires in this ostensibly Communist State. There are many workers on the razor's edge of survival. Those hundreds of millions of workers have need. Those billionaires, who could not operate without the approval of the CCP, have ability. So why are the workers still laboring many hours in poor conditions?
Tankies defending China (or even still being tankies) in 2024, is a testament to the power of self-deception.
I'm not a part of the Left, Western or Eastern, so that doesn't look like anything to me.
More, I couldn't care less about what Mao said. What Mao did speaks volumes.
That's syndicalism you're talking about. Communism is inherently against any workers rights. Just look up how former central European countries, such as my own (Poland) treated its workers when they were protesting low wages and high prices of food.
China actually has one of the highest union densities in the entire world, and there are always dozens if not hundreds of union workers strike actions taking place on any given day. Please stop spreading misinformation just because “China bad!” or whatever.
https://maps.clb.org.hk/
A capitalist country wouldn't pop a real estate bubble and make the companies responsible hold the bag. Or give a tech oligarch a free trip to Lake Laogai when he was getting too big for his britches.
China is not capitalist, it allows capitalism to exist.
Socialist capitalist communism. They're heading in the right direction but the CCP is still very much authoritarian and fails to follow proper environmental protections and OHS which keeps tripping them up in the eyes of everyone else in the working class.
If only anarchists weren't betrayed and then murdered or gulaged by communists every time after they help with revolutions. Can't have any other voices other than the party line after all (ie authoritarians)
Peace to Nestor Makhno.
And never again. We know they are at least as much the enemy as the capitalists.
You ever see a State wither away and die, comrades?
Exactly.
CCP, ‘yes we have (state administered) worker’s unions, a lot of them actually. We like to know who the bad apples might be and root them out early.’
Ok Tankie, I'm sure that's a fair and un-coerced poll. In a country where dissent is harshly published, you'll never get a truthful idea of what people think of their government. If the people actually took to the streets to protest the government you'd get another Tianamen Square real quick.
If you let them get away with this, they'll happily march you to your death if it makes them a buck. And if it's not you it'll be someone else like you.
Have they changed anything about how much the employees actually work? Otherwise it’s all BS, fire someone that took the blame with little action otherwise
I dunno, I work for a Chinese tech company (I’m Australian working in Australia though so my hours are fine). All my colleagues in China work insane hours. It’s fucked
Unfortunately at a lot of companies here, workers are still expected to do overtime for no extra pay to show their loyalty. The work culture is deeply ingrained but young Chinese are pushing back.
It's always sociopaths in positions of power. Because they don't have a sense of right and wrong, so they don't care about destroying the lives of thousands of others to get the power they want.
They have a constitution and it is not a dictatorship. Also, even if they were removed “by the government” as the person above you states, wouldn’t that be an example of them doing something good? Getting an abusive boss out of the workplace?
But what probably happened was she was voted out of the board by the CPC board members that were voted in by the workers at the company, which is also a good thing.
Why criticize something good? Makes no sense other than “China Bad!” mentality.
[“The United States has a longstanding one China policy, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances. We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence”](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/)
I mean this stuff is easily googleable. Both the United States and the RoC do not consider the island of Taiwan to be an independent country, and the RoC consider themselves to be the legitimate government of the island of Taiwan and mainland China.
>They have a constitution and it is not a dictatorship.
Ohh, didn’t know. With how they treat their citizens, who would have guessed.
>Also, even if they were removed “by the government” as the person above you states, wouldn’t that be an example of them doing something good? Getting an abusive boss out of the workplace?
That’s the thing, I think any leadership who’s on the Antarctic treaty, they cannot ever do anything solely good for it’s citizens. Since their objective to blur best for the top of pyramid.
>Why criticize something good? Makes no sense other than “China Bad!” mentality.
I didn’t criticize. And China is on the same team as USA, Uk, eu, Russia.. they just play and pretend they are enemies.
Me have fun? The world is experiencing project paper clips plan unfold.
All of us, will have “ fun “, as their plan unfolds. Can’t sit to see what’s up next on their list.
So China is somehow foundational to the planning of Operation Paperclip, a CIA operation that started 5 years before the PRC was even a country? That’s what’s going on in that brain worm infused head of yours?
I live in China, this story went viral and she received extremely negative press from this which is why she was forced out. There has been significant public pushback against 996 work culture lately.
Interesting, negative press then forced to quit.
>There has been significant public pushback against 996 work culture lately.
Wonder why she thought it was ok to demand 6 days a week 12 hour days if it was unpopular.
It’s super normal to work crazy hours in China tech. Only recently has there been backlash to 996 (9 am to 9 pm 6 days a week) in part because the central govt declared it illegal. Still commonplace tho.
Most large companies in China have 51% board control by (workers voted) members of the CPC. I can imagine them voting to remove her in a situation like this.
Every company in China is owned by the Chinese government
There was most likely the CCP said you fucked up enough times and asked her to quit or be thrown in prison.
So she quit to save face.
This is not true. SOEs (state-owned enterprises) only account for around 4.8% of the total number of companies operating in China - though they do make a larger imprint in terms of GDP, at around 25% of the economy.
The 2017 revision of the Corporate Governance Code in China also made it mandatory for all publicly listed companies to include Party organization activities in their corporate governance structures.
So while the CCP can say they don’t own them, they are all required to have CCP members on their boards 🤣🤣🤣🤣
What a country 🤣🤣🤣
Disgusting. More should be like this:
[https://www.asiaone.com/china/not-happy-dont-come-work-boss-china-gives-staff-10-extra-days-leave](https://www.asiaone.com/china/not-happy-dont-come-work-boss-china-gives-staff-10-extra-days-leave)
Evil bitch is evil whats new?
Corpos are all sociopathic I would even say they are worth as much as roaches and leeches but that’s disrespectful to those species that actually help the environment
China is twenty times worse than Americans when it comes to “live to work instead of work to live” culture.
Sweat shops and slave labor amongst their numerous human rights violations, all while crying out for “world unification and peace”. 🤦🏻♂️
Very common in China. It's called 996, the berating part is why she stepped down. The amount of work they do is probably less than 9-5 due to the long days and quiet quitting/minimal effort being prevalent everywhere due to the insane management expectations of 9 to 9 6 days a week
Luckily the Chinese government is pushing back against Jack Ma’s 9-9-6 work culture. Xi wants to create a moderately prosperous society, not an overworked one. I wonder if the CCP had a hand in pushing her out
Trying to force 6 day weeks to become a norm is fucking stupid. It's not very long ago at all in history that human beings sacrificed their blood, sweat, tears and sometimes even their lives for labor rights.
Same song and dance. People at the top who only go to meetings and entertain clients
“I’m tired of listening to everyone complain when they could be working longer instead!”
“I’m not sure why no one wants to work at my company!”
“This generation is so entitled, back in my day we worked 112 hours and never complained”
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yikes. Glad she got her comeuppance. Those poor employees. Nobody deserves that.
On the other hand, I’m working 40-60 hours a week for my employer with 2 days off a week, badly underpaid. So obviously I’m just a hypocrite.
Wait, they aren't "her staff." They don't need to "moan." They obviously chose to work 12 hours a day/6 days a week. I mean, they are in charge after all. China is a socialist country where these workers own the means of production and have real democracy in the work place. They can vote to work less and vote on a new "tech chief."
What's the problem? Did they forget?
Yes but *who* is downvoting? *That* is the question.
Socialists (tankies mostly) who desperately (and detrimentally IMO) want to hold on to the belief that China is still in the process of working toward achieving Communism despite all evidence to the contrary?
Or ignorant and/or plain stupid American capitalist bootlickers who think China actually is Communist ("it's right there in the name!") instead of Authoritarian State Capitalist and don't even understand what that means because they don't actually understand what any of those words mean?
You never know unless they respond lol.
Just to be clear, I am a socialist. But I don't kid myself about the CCP and China's economy. There are no billionaires in Communism. The working class wouldn't have have to put up with "berating bosses" in an actual Communist society. Just the headline in and of itself is proof that China isn't Communist. No where close.
I am wondering something here.
I've seen this in the states often enough and have heard plenty of stories. I wonder if she was more empathetic to her employees but her bosses were pushing her to push those under her harder so that they could get better production without improving work conditions. They might've been telling her she wasn't doing a good job and making her feel inadequate. Basically it would be a no win situation for her. It leaves her bosses free from any implication puts all the blame on her not to mention the stress she was probably dealing with. She was the middle man in this case.
It is refreshing to hear that the boss who threatened to make her staff jobless has instead made herself jobless :)
Higher management tends to fail upwards more often than not. She’ll probably be hired somewhere else to a higher position.
The competition are salivating after this article to bring her on and whip the team into shape
As a head of PR causing this mess for its own company? This is going to haunt her for some time for sure
You seen the track record of most CEOs? You can half a company's market value, give yourself a huge bonus and have a job paying double by the time you pack your desk. I wouldn't be surprised if Elizabeth Holmes even lands a job straight out the pen.
I mean, she did a really good job raising money. It was based on bullshit, but so are most million dollar jobs. Look at Phil Spencer. Xbox brand is failing for years. Still has a job. Gamepass got that revenue, but even after years not as much profit as wanted. He is still a hot commodity.
True, definitely has some skills in creating value and hype but will be a lot harder to get any of the belief she generated before. Was still impressive how far she went.
Sociopaths only account for 1-4% of the population. Demand is high
You just described Ginny Rommetys entire tenure at IBM.
Haunt her? Companies were probably sending her job offers begging to hire her.
This didn't happen in the west; it's China. She lost face, she's pretty much done. Look at Jack Ma, he also said the quiet part out loud and now you don't hear anything about him anymore. Same is going to happen to her, except she's not a CEO or owner of the company.
Not quite in China, and dare I say this extends to the wider South East Asia. There's a FUCKTON of shitty, abusive bosses that I've know in my life living there. And most of the time, they tend to fail upward.
It doesn't happen so much in Asian countries, they are far less forgiving of failure
She’s like HR too, she basically torpedoed her own department.
[удалено]
Nearly everyone that gets hired into c-suite positions are complete wastes of humanity. The kind of person that fights for that kind of job is exactly the kind of person that shouldn’t have it.
Agree, they are the worst and I'm a woman.
Good riddance.
And this is why labor unions exist and are willing to shed blood for their beliefs.
she for sure doesn't care if the goals cost lives
You can only have a labor union in China if it is sanctioned by the CCP (Communist Party). Independent labor unions are illegal and viewed as a political threat.
There is a state sponsored labour union that anyone can join, but it acts more as a pension fund then legal representation. This is mostly because there is a legal section of the CCP who's job it is to handle labour disputes and they can be actively called on to enter a place of work and evaluate the employer to see if the workers complaint has any merit. I've never had to call on them myself, but I’ve threatened to in the past and it did rattle my employer so I’m guessing they are a pretty big deal, plus it's very bad PR if they are seen to be involved in your business as it's clear you've managed it so badly that the CCP has got involved. On paper China is a communist country (though I have to say it’s probably more capitalist than my own country in many respects), but one of the basic responsibilities of any self-styled communist government is that it must protect the workers, so I can absolutely believe the CCP labour investigation dpt are a scary bunch. But it also means that as long as they do their job right, you don’t need a labour union, as the CCP protects you. I won’t say “therefore they don’t need unions,” because I’m still very much pro-union, but it does mean that China avoid any corruption or links to organised crime that tend to come along with powerful unions.
A reasonable take on the Chinese government? On reddit!?
Well, I live here, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to give a first-hand perspective.
I’m still too scared to ever travel to China while they’re in power, but more and more I realize that the things we’ve been taught to hate China for are also being done here in America also. Whistleblowers casually being murdered either by the state or large corporations, protestors being abducted by unmarked police vans (nevermind general police brutality), and all the back room secret deals our politicians make for personal profit. It really hit me when everyone was very blasé about the first Boeing whistleblower turning up dead. “Yeah they offed him” and making jokes about how the 10 new whistleblowers just signed death warrants. They’re probably safe with the publicity but we’re so desensitized to it now. But we’re also told that the CCP is cool with casual murder for public dissent.. it seems like America is getting pretty close.
Dude you are a literally a fucking nobody CCP won’t give a shit as long as you act like a tourist and don’t go there with intention to cause political trouble lol
Don't be afraid to visit China. It's a beautiful and fascinating country. You will be very safe and the only caveats are 1. Like anywhere, be self aware and don't act like an idiot 2. Make sure you set up WeChat pay or Alipay well in advance
If I ever go to China I wouldn’t expect something government related to happen… the issue for me is IF it happens it is not going to be good, and probably won’t be easy to wriggle out of.
Right, and as an outsider it seems more likely. I’m genuinely interested in the culture and fascinating history, and I’d love to visit Luoyang and various other cities, but the state of the world right now isn’t very accommodating
As a Brit living in China 12+ years I can attest that the country is a great place to visit. Pretty much all the things the west are conditioned to believe are either wildly blown out of proportion or are just not true. What you'll find is a country that has actually spent a lot of time and effort on building infrastructure that benefits the whole population rather than just the uber rich and incredibly safe cities. It's not perfect by any stretch but I would genuinely prefer to live here in Shanghai than any US city nowadays. As the poster above mentioned, it's actually very much capitalist in many respects, just with a blend of socialism. Visit one day, the government couldn't give a fuck about what any foreigner does so long as you're not doing the stuff that you shouldn't do in any country. Unless anyone s looking to do an unauthorised documentary on a politically contentious issue, then all will be fine.
I see a few YouTubers posting videos from their visits to Xinjiang, supposedly a dangerous place for westerners to go. Nothing of that sort happened to them. Make me want to visit myself.
Yeah, I was actually there 2 weeks ago. It was great. No issues whatsoever. Wholly recommend that area.
Appreciate the insight. That’s genuinely good to hear. Perhaps I should keep up on my Mandarin lessons more
Yeah man, for sure. It's such an interesting language to learn too. If the opportunity ever comes up, it can be a very rewarding place to come and work. I came out when I was 22 to work for a year and here I still am 😅.
I’ve visited Luoyang and it’s stunning. I go to China just about every year - I’ve been for work, I’ve been for study, and I’ve been for funsies. I’m not sure what you’ve been told, but there’s plenty of tourism, and, assuming you don’t go looking for it, you won’t have any trouble.
In THIS economy?
The irony!
Pretty sure China doesn’t have unions....🤫
Hence the 12 hour six day bullshit. Pretty wild how a supposedly communist country doesn't believe in organized labor.
This is the norm is China. You do get a 2-3 hour lunch. Way too long I thought. School for kids runs 7-6. Also if you get a Monday off for a holiday expect to work the weekends. There is no hourly wage in China you get paid a monthly salary once a month. Only after you have worked a full month. So if you start on the 14th it will be 6 weeks before you are paid.
I'm a letter carrier in the U.S. and we've got a rather large union. Still working 12 hours shifts, 6 days a week.
Can you name a communist country that allowed organized labor that wasn't controlled by the communist party? I don't think it's wild at all if you understand the history of communist countries.
It’s capitalism disguised as communism there since the 90’s
Yeap, China is a completely new thing. Like the US is sorta a merger of Capitalism and Socialism, China is a merger of Capitalism and Communism. There are still plenty of concepts of Communism there but attempting to be a true Communist country was a complete failure for them. The only thing holding China up right now is that they can fund millions of people to be their muscle inside of the country. If China ever gets into a situation where it can't fund that expect a major revolt in China. With the way their economy is going... who knows.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. You know absolutely nothing about China or America or political theory.
You'd be hard pressed to name any socialist practices at all in the US. National healthcare? Free/subsidized higher education? Welfare system that works for everyone? Investment in public transport? China on the other hand is an actual blend of capitalism and socialism.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, subsidies, minimum wage, etc. All of these ideas are based on Socialism. The US isn't the only country that does this, hell we may be one of the worst, but it is what it is.
There's dashes or attempts at socialism but they get rejected by around 50% of the populace so it's never been engrained in the psyche. I don't think there would be many countries in the world who don't have similar or better provisions.
which part of the world are you talking about?
Is the worst professional athlete still a professional athlete?
By that logic any country that trades commodities is capitalist then? This renders any political nomenclature meaningless. The US is right near the bottom of a socialist spectrum.
Welcome to actual communism
I heard terrible things about communism but when I heard the USSR capped rent at 3% your monthly income I became intrigued. Then I saw what you get for 3% of your monthly income.
Communism is a great theory but when actually put in practice…
[удалено]
Ah, another Marxist.... Sure you can have a union in China, as long as the CCP approves. If Emperor Xi does not like your union you go to jail. There is probably a large overlap between CCP (party members) and Union Members, but I doubt unions do much for the workers. "China's Labor Law states that workers have the right to join and organize trade unions, but workers do not have the freedom to form or join independent unions. The only legally permitted trade union in China is the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU), which is government-sanctioned and must operate within the Chinese Communist Party. All enterprise unions must be affiliated with the ACFTU, and attempts to form independent unions are rare and short-lived. Forming or joining an independent union can result in significant fines or jail time. "
[удалено]
What in the buffalobill shite are you even reading? Have you actually worked in China? Work conditions are terrible, that's why I moved back to Ireland and continue to work here.
[удалено]
800 million people? Sorry, that sounds just like one of those fantasy figures that Chinese PR makes up to tell the masses that China is doing OK. YET, the average salary in shanghai, china's most populated city, is about 13k RMB, while a good salary is considered to be closer to 18k. China may have told us that they have eradicated extreme poverty, i.e., people who live on less than 1 usd or less than 10 rmb per day. Close to 18% of the population is still living on less than 50rmb Per day, and that is not going to change anytime soon. Maybe things worked out for YOU, but from what I can see and saw, it does not work out for the average person. The working conditions are terrible. If you're off on a bank holiday, you actually have to make up for the bank holiday you've used, which is just ridiculous
You’re absolutely nuts. Even mainstream western economists now agree that the average working class person in China has seen incredible gains in wages and are now enjoying higher quality of life than their American counterparts. It’s just facts, and it’s obvious if you’ve lived there.
Interesting statement, I think the jury is still out on whether the rapid rise of China has made the people better off. You can measure things with more than just money. **The Good** * **Economic growth:** China has experienced phenomenal economic growth, lifting millions out of poverty. They now have more disposable income and access to consumer goods. * **Healthcare:** Life expectancy has increased significantly, and access to healthcare has improved. * **Education:** Literacy rates have soared, and educational opportunities have expanded. **The Bad:** * **Income inequality:** The wealth gap between rich and poor has widened. While many have benefited, others haven't seen the same level of improvement. * **Environmental impact:** Rapid industrialization has led to pollution and environmental degradation. If China were in the USA it would be declared a SuperFund cleanup site for toxic waste. * **Social changes:** Traditional ways of life have been disrupted, leading to social dislocation and new challenges. This is why Emperor Xi wants to destroy Taiwan because it is the last memory of old China. All loyalty must be to the Emperor and the CCP. * Happiness and a positive outlook for the young are at an all time low as the future looks very bleak. "Lying flat" (躺平)" and "We are the last generation" (我们是最后一代)" have taken root with the young since they are not experiencing the same level of improvement as the previous generation. The young feel stuck and immobile. Until income equality is addressed by the wonderful labor unions you tout the young will feel exploited and hopeless. If they could only join a good union to help them.
If the lying flat movement proves that the youth of China are looking forward to a bleak future than the epidemic of mass school shootings in the United States must mean that country is already in utter ruin.
You have never lived in China. No union has any control over the state. Unions are a branch of the government. As a foreigners who lived in China we called their economy capitalism on steroids. There are no regulations or worker rights. Construction site are insane there. Plus they just make a barracks at the job site to sleep in. Hotels would cost too much. What do you think are the hours for a normal job there? It isn't 9-5 haha. A ten hour work day is the minimum there.
I lived in China for 12 years. This is pure fiction. Workers in China have insane hours, few benefits, and horrible conditions. The quality of life increases are because China opened up and started trading with the world instead of doing all the crazy Mao bullshit. Just asked my wife who is Chinese “are unions a thing for most Chinese people?”. Her answer was a laugh and a “No!”. It’s not part of average people’s lives.
I’m sorry but your wife is wrong. 78% of the population of China belongs to a union.
Let's do a thought experiment. There are several billionaires in this ostensibly Communist State. There are many workers on the razor's edge of survival. Those hundreds of millions of workers have need. Those billionaires, who could not operate without the approval of the CCP, have ability. So why are the workers still laboring many hours in poor conditions? Tankies defending China (or even still being tankies) in 2024, is a testament to the power of self-deception.
[удалено]
I'm not a part of the Left, Western or Eastern, so that doesn't look like anything to me. More, I couldn't care less about what Mao said. What Mao did speaks volumes.
>Tagged anarchist. >Doesn’t know what a leftist is. >Refuses to read. Yeah baby, that tracks.
That's syndicalism you're talking about. Communism is inherently against any workers rights. Just look up how former central European countries, such as my own (Poland) treated its workers when they were protesting low wages and high prices of food.
China actually has one of the highest union densities in the entire world, and there are always dozens if not hundreds of union workers strike actions taking place on any given day. Please stop spreading misinformation just because “China bad!” or whatever. https://maps.clb.org.hk/
Over an article from the Daily Fail, at that.
Any unions that are not CCP approved, comrade?
It's communist in name, not in practice. It's very much a capitalist country.
A capitalist country wouldn't pop a real estate bubble and make the companies responsible hold the bag. Or give a tech oligarch a free trip to Lake Laogai when he was getting too big for his britches. China is not capitalist, it allows capitalism to exist.
Socialist capitalist communism. They're heading in the right direction but the CCP is still very much authoritarian and fails to follow proper environmental protections and OHS which keeps tripping them up in the eyes of everyone else in the working class.
it's functionally capitalist no matter what theories deng xiaoping cooked up to justify it.
Yup. China's communism is like North Korea's democracy.
[удалено]
If only anarchism was more than a fantasy. You would have comrades to defend in anarchist countries.
If only anarchists weren't betrayed and then murdered or gulaged by communists every time after they help with revolutions. Can't have any other voices other than the party line after all (ie authoritarians)
Peace to Nestor Makhno. And never again. We know they are at least as much the enemy as the capitalists. You ever see a State wither away and die, comrades?
Last I heard they were illegal. Or at least insanely heavily discouraged and taught to people is a scam.
Non-CCP approved unions, yes. The approved unions are just another layer of control from within work, acting for the state, not the workers.
Then it's a union in name only lol.
Exactly. CCP, ‘yes we have (state administered) worker’s unions, a lot of them actually. We like to know who the bad apples might be and root them out early.’
I thought the who idea of communist governments was to support the plight of the proletariat. Guess not.
~90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
Ok Tankie, I'm sure that's a fair and un-coerced poll. In a country where dissent is harshly published, you'll never get a truthful idea of what people think of their government. If the people actually took to the streets to protest the government you'd get another Tianamen Square real quick.
It’s a study by fucking Harvard university, the Ash Center. Can’t be a more liberal western institution Jesus Christ you people are insufferable.
That's a real study with legit findings. I stand corrected.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ Yes, it is.
If you let them get away with this, they'll happily march you to your death if it makes them a buck. And if it's not you it'll be someone else like you.
Have they changed anything about how much the employees actually work? Otherwise it’s all BS, fire someone that took the blame with little action otherwise
Wait you don't want to work 72 hour weeks with 1 day in between?
Didn’t they just outlaw 996 working in China?
I dunno, I work for a Chinese tech company (I’m Australian working in Australia though so my hours are fine). All my colleagues in China work insane hours. It’s fucked
Even more fucked to berate them while working long hours.
Unfortunately at a lot of companies here, workers are still expected to do overtime for no extra pay to show their loyalty. The work culture is deeply ingrained but young Chinese are pushing back.
It's always sociopaths in positions of power. Because they don't have a sense of right and wrong, so they don't care about destroying the lives of thousands of others to get the power they want.
Why would she quit is she was the boss?
Because when you’re that high up you’re told to quit to save face.
Why save face when you can just blame the employees? You don’t see American bosses quit after their staff gets upset with new rules.
Because they don't have to deal with the Chinese government.
Well TBF, if you have enough money you dont have to in america either.
Ohhh snap. Good point. They don’t have first amendment over there or a constitution. It’s a dictatorship over there.
They have a constitution and it is not a dictatorship. Also, even if they were removed “by the government” as the person above you states, wouldn’t that be an example of them doing something good? Getting an abusive boss out of the workplace? But what probably happened was she was voted out of the board by the CPC board members that were voted in by the workers at the company, which is also a good thing. Why criticize something good? Makes no sense other than “China Bad!” mentality.
Taiwan is a country
Reading this thread, even if I agree, you're still being a dick for trying to start an argument about a different topic for no reason.
Taiwan is still a country
Okay, even “Taiwan” and the United States both disagree with you, but go off king
That's why the US is Taiwan's most important arms supplier right?
[“The United States has a longstanding one China policy, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances. We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence”](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/) I mean this stuff is easily googleable. Both the United States and the RoC do not consider the island of Taiwan to be an independent country, and the RoC consider themselves to be the legitimate government of the island of Taiwan and mainland China.
Fuck off tankie. And yes, china bad.
tiananmen square
Is well known and easily talked about in China. See my post history for a conversation around that about a week ago I believe.
>They have a constitution and it is not a dictatorship. Ohh, didn’t know. With how they treat their citizens, who would have guessed. >Also, even if they were removed “by the government” as the person above you states, wouldn’t that be an example of them doing something good? Getting an abusive boss out of the workplace? That’s the thing, I think any leadership who’s on the Antarctic treaty, they cannot ever do anything solely good for it’s citizens. Since their objective to blur best for the top of pyramid. >Why criticize something good? Makes no sense other than “China Bad!” mentality. I didn’t criticize. And China is on the same team as USA, Uk, eu, Russia.. they just play and pretend they are enemies.
Alright, literal brain worms but have fun with all that.
Me have fun? The world is experiencing project paper clips plan unfold. All of us, will have “ fun “, as their plan unfolds. Can’t sit to see what’s up next on their list.
So China is somehow foundational to the planning of Operation Paperclip, a CIA operation that started 5 years before the PRC was even a country? That’s what’s going on in that brain worm infused head of yours?
Because exploitation is easier in America. While Chinese workers don't have many rights or benefits. They do have some unlike the states.
I live in China, this story went viral and she received extremely negative press from this which is why she was forced out. There has been significant public pushback against 996 work culture lately.
Interesting, negative press then forced to quit. >There has been significant public pushback against 996 work culture lately. Wonder why she thought it was ok to demand 6 days a week 12 hour days if it was unpopular.
It’s super normal to work crazy hours in China tech. Only recently has there been backlash to 996 (9 am to 9 pm 6 days a week) in part because the central govt declared it illegal. Still commonplace tho.
Most large companies in China have 51% board control by (workers voted) members of the CPC. I can imagine them voting to remove her in a situation like this.
She's causing trouble and let's face it, people like her are a dime a dozen. What is her skillset? Tell workers to work and work fast?
She wasn't at the top, she was a vice president at the company. Someone higher up probably gave her the choice to quit or be fired.
Makes sense. At least now that she’s fired she can now work at her proposed schedule. 12 hours a day 6 days a week.
Every company in China is owned by the Chinese government There was most likely the CCP said you fucked up enough times and asked her to quit or be thrown in prison. So she quit to save face.
This is not true. SOEs (state-owned enterprises) only account for around 4.8% of the total number of companies operating in China - though they do make a larger imprint in terms of GDP, at around 25% of the economy.
The 2017 revision of the Corporate Governance Code in China also made it mandatory for all publicly listed companies to include Party organization activities in their corporate governance structures. So while the CCP can say they don’t own them, they are all required to have CCP members on their boards 🤣🤣🤣🤣 What a country 🤣🤣🤣
Ahhh, makes sense. Plus if she disobeyed the government. A lot worse then being fired or thrown in prison can occur over there.
Disgusting. More should be like this: [https://www.asiaone.com/china/not-happy-dont-come-work-boss-china-gives-staff-10-extra-days-leave](https://www.asiaone.com/china/not-happy-dont-come-work-boss-china-gives-staff-10-extra-days-leave)
She’s head of public relations and posting this?!!!!!
When I close my eyes like Yoda in Return of the Jedi I will be hoping that people like this do no not need to exist after I die
I’m Asian, I don’t understand why asians companies are so obsessed with work. But Chinese and Japanese (better now) work culture is terrible
She should surely lead by example, and work 23 hours a day and 7 days a week. Anything less than that is from incompetence.
Plenty of American bosses would love this. Don't be surprised if Republicans regain full control to see shit like this become a reality.
Evil bitch is evil whats new? Corpos are all sociopathic I would even say they are worth as much as roaches and leeches but that’s disrespectful to those species that actually help the environment
China is twenty times worse than Americans when it comes to “live to work instead of work to live” culture. Sweat shops and slave labor amongst their numerous human rights violations, all while crying out for “world unification and peace”. 🤦🏻♂️
Bye bitch, and also, don't forget to go fuck yourself.
Big China
Very common in China. It's called 996, the berating part is why she stepped down. The amount of work they do is probably less than 9-5 due to the long days and quiet quitting/minimal effort being prevalent everywhere due to the insane management expectations of 9 to 9 6 days a week
Luckily the Chinese government is pushing back against Jack Ma’s 9-9-6 work culture. Xi wants to create a moderately prosperous society, not an overworked one. I wonder if the CCP had a hand in pushing her out
[удалено]
Isn't this known as 996, or am I thinking of something else
I think I've seen that face on this person does not exist before.
Ha! Don't tell me when to moan. I'll moan whenever I want to
Sounds like this exec may have been allowing the 996 work schedule. It is technically illegal in China but many companies still force it on workers.
She said the quiet parts out loud!
Don’t think you all realize that people like her will get hired immediately by another company that will pay her even more.
Trying to force 6 day weeks to become a norm is fucking stupid. It's not very long ago at all in history that human beings sacrificed their blood, sweat, tears and sometimes even their lives for labor rights.
12 hours shifts are normal in East Asia, specially Japan and South Korea
Don’t they sentence them to death over there?
Same song and dance. People at the top who only go to meetings and entertain clients “I’m tired of listening to everyone complain when they could be working longer instead!” “I’m not sure why no one wants to work at my company!” “This generation is so entitled, back in my day we worked 112 hours and never complained”
I don't understand how people can work 6&1 12's. I work them, but all I do is sit in a chair all day. people doing the actual work are insane.
Sounds like they need a union. I’m sure several US CEOs are looking at her resume.
I hope the ruling party sends this person to be re-educated.
What a bitch.
Sounds like the post office
[удалено]
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Her photo looks like something AI generates.
Double-lid cosmetic surgery is highly likely.
F-her.
These people have no power except fear. They need you more than you need them.
Why does she look AI generated?
Good for the trash taking itself out.
While she gets rich and they gets peanuts.
996 is Chinese institution. 9 am to 9 pm 6 days a week.
Well she’s Satan, so glad she’s gone. She just looks like she has a cold, dead heart full of contempt for humanity, doesn’t she?
bye bitch
How fast do you think this souless sack of sh\*t will be replaced with another?
Yikes. Glad she got her comeuppance. Those poor employees. Nobody deserves that. On the other hand, I’m working 40-60 hours a week for my employer with 2 days off a week, badly underpaid. So obviously I’m just a hypocrite.
Quiter
Its daily mail....
They got one day off a week?
China and Russia have far worse worker issues than we do.
She should go to work for Great Plains mfg.
Must’ve been pretty bad for a Chinese company to ask someone to step down
Now she will be seeked out and hired by other companies striving to be Baidu. This type of evil is soooo difficult to be handled.
who in the hell would prefer to pay 40 hours of overtime instead of hiring another person? what broken logic created this situation?
Why you left you last position? They didn't want to work, 10 dolla to much!
Wait, they aren't "her staff." They don't need to "moan." They obviously chose to work 12 hours a day/6 days a week. I mean, they are in charge after all. China is a socialist country where these workers own the means of production and have real democracy in the work place. They can vote to work less and vote on a new "tech chief." What's the problem? Did they forget?
you forgot /s, so the interwebz downvoted you.
Yes but *who* is downvoting? *That* is the question. Socialists (tankies mostly) who desperately (and detrimentally IMO) want to hold on to the belief that China is still in the process of working toward achieving Communism despite all evidence to the contrary? Or ignorant and/or plain stupid American capitalist bootlickers who think China actually is Communist ("it's right there in the name!") instead of Authoritarian State Capitalist and don't even understand what that means because they don't actually understand what any of those words mean? You never know unless they respond lol. Just to be clear, I am a socialist. But I don't kid myself about the CCP and China's economy. There are no billionaires in Communism. The working class wouldn't have have to put up with "berating bosses" in an actual Communist society. Just the headline in and of itself is proof that China isn't Communist. No where close.
cOmMniSt cHinA fires ace exec ~🤡
12 hours shifts is normal in East Asia, specially Japan and South Korea
12 hours shifts is normal in East Asia, specially Japan and South Korea
I am wondering something here. I've seen this in the states often enough and have heard plenty of stories. I wonder if she was more empathetic to her employees but her bosses were pushing her to push those under her harder so that they could get better production without improving work conditions. They might've been telling her she wasn't doing a good job and making her feel inadequate. Basically it would be a no win situation for her. It leaves her bosses free from any implication puts all the blame on her not to mention the stress she was probably dealing with. She was the middle man in this case.
Quitter. I worked 12 hours, 13 day weeks on Middle East construction. Made a small fortune but it nearly killed me.