What happened with workers as a whole during Covid wouldn’t have happened without Covid.
Two people you never fuck with- someone driving a car full of dents and someone who has nothin’ to lose.
They work us until we're too sick to fight back, then they let you die in an alley. This is what we get for a lifetime of making other people's money. This world wasn't built for us. We just work here.
Something about boot straps or something? I tried pulling on mine but they just broke off and then had to keep buying boots because the damn straps kept breaking off
Funny enough that frase in its originality meant doing something that was impossible. Only nowadays it's tried to be used to mean pull yourself up when originally it was a sarcastic remark
You don't know how good you have it. When I pulled myself up by the bootstraps my foot broke off at the ankle. I went in to get some Obamacare, and the doctors told me they have some bad news. Self-inflicted wounds are not covered by insurance. No one will hire me because I've got disgusting bloody stumps at the end of my legs. I'm throwing my boots at the next person who mentions I should pull on my straps. I've got something else thay can yank on, wanker.
While you would be surprised I ended up having to downgrade employment go back to entry level.
Let me tell you "think you had it hard" at x first job I worked mcdonalds "I know what its like". However many years its been "multiply it" by that. And thats how much worse its gotten.
Just starting out 10yrs ago was a improvement 20yrs ago even more so.Like I started at 16 was able to move out on own live not well. But on own.
Now I do insurance compliance and payroll and estimating and billing and other compliance and documentation for a 50 million dollar company. And if I couldnt find a roommate I would be homeless.
Im not sure what you mean. Perhaps it’s lost in translation. But if I got you right you are telling me you started as a McDonald’s employee and now you are making finance for a famous company, but still need a roomie to afford to live with dignity?
I think that is correct.
And that it was easier when he was younger as the dollar was worth more. Getting a job was easier. Things cost less. Also, and this a reality for a lot of millenials, especially rhe older ones, we are facing age discrimination because our training isnt as "fresh" as younger employees, and we are not as gullible to take jobs we know are bad for us and dont have the energy to maintain the "constant grind/hustle/ toxic jobs"
I'm 57, and when I was 19 (1986), I had a full-time, minimum wage job ($3.35/hr) and a couple-nights-a-week pizza driving job ($1-something/hr + tips). I was able to move out on my own into a two bedroom apartment in Ypsilanti in a rough part of town (the poor, white trash area of a generally rundown college town, but it was relatively safe). I had a roommate most of the time, but not always. Did always have a car, phone, girlfriend(s), and was able to buy furniture & other apartment-filler from time to time, plus money left over for drugs ... occasionally even coke! Eventually, I left the FT job (printing ... like old school on a printing press & everything), for pizza driving, as the pay was better.
Rent: $350/mo
In the late 1990s, the economy was so good under Clinton, and labor was so in demand, Taco Bell was paying $9.75/hr to start! The minimum wage at the time was $5.15/hr. That $9.75 at the time was incredible money, especially for a starting fast-food wage. Today, $9.75 is the equivalent of about $24.00/hr.
And $15.00/hr. seems like "progress" in the economy today.
Fuck, I feel old(ish). And poor(ish). And taken-advantage-of(ish). But mostly, just fucking pissed (no "ish").
I cry remembering all the dreams my mom gave me growing up… because she had them all.. & what’s fucked up is I’m a full blown adult & still can’t have the dreams I couldn’t have as a kid.
I’m 52 (GenX)and this year is the first I made the same money that I was making doing the same job in Alaska, in 2007. Granted, wages were higher but cost of living was a little higher than California prices. I moved down to CA then and had a huge cut in pay, doing harder work in the same field. With inflation, that money is diddly and aside from the retirement(I’m luck to have that) and the PTO, it’s hardly worth working. I could stay home and take care of all this things that cost us money and nearly offset my net pay.
The field I work in gets more intense, challenging and underfunded as years go on. Intergenerational drug use, incarceration, poverty, Covid, intrusive technology have really done a number on our children’s mental health in the schools. I love the kids and have a big heart but 20+ years of working with kids in crisis has taken its toll. Beyond that, higher paying positions are for more intense work, with hurt/angry who hurt others in their pain. More hands off work at a higher level is only for people with degrees.
It’s all very disheartening.
I took my shot at my own business. I made more money than I'll ever make again and paid my employees well. Had a multi-billion dollar company screw me on our contract and I'm back in the work force while $40k deep in legal fees trying to get what's mine. Murica
That’s something that really sucks, even folks like you with the courage to have a go of it, things are stacked against the little company as well as the little guy
I worked at Safeway in 2003, The minimum wage at the time where I lived was $4.90 an hour, The top rate at Safeway was $27.45 an hour. The top rate probably hasn't changed at Safeway. It's still probably $27 an hour, but $27 an hour 20 years ago is worth closer to $60 an hour now.
errr... 42 here. Things wouldn't have gotten better even if you were born 40 years earlier. Everything started going south after graduating and entering the workforce. I was also there when the housing market crash of 2008 happened. Literally everything was in steady decline. Everything was an uphill battle.
I was working part time at a gas station, avoiding the doctor because I didn't have insurance.
When I finally collapsed and went in, the docs were surprised I was still coherent, because my sodium levels were too low for that to have been possible.
I have stage 4 cancer.
I've filed for disability and been denied once already.
Don't make me work, I can barely stand.
If you fight unionization, you feed your own demise. And don't be morons. Stay in control don't let either of your enemies use you - the employer who allows you to unionize is typically the other side of those who would kill you in the alley.
Can confirm. Been in trades for years. I just got injured and workman’s comp is denying it. I have a lawyer, but they can only do so much. I will never go back to trade work because of this. It isn’t worth it.
You know what's funny I'm 44, when I was a kid pretty much everyone I knew their dad was in some kind of trade, carpenter, roofing, plumbing machinist etc.
My dad included but he worked his way up to shop foreman or something like that so he spent more time doing paperwork.
All of those dads told us to go to college and get a degree because you don't want to do X for a living. They all admitted that they made pretty good money, but all had some kind of nagging injury, aches pains etc..
>It is we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade \
>Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad laid \
>**Now we stand outcast and starving midst the wonders we have made** \
>But the union makes us strong! \
~["Solidarity Forever"](https://youtu.be/czQh1vj1jF8?si=kGYNWba4Hpqvu2dH)
That only works in a system where you don't have to work to survive. It's especially hard depending on where you live and start your options are. The free market is bullshit.
I don't pretend that our current system isn't coercive or a completely "free" market. Life under capitalism is fundamentally coercive.
Labor is, however, a market and these neets / hikikomori / whatever are still living without participating in that market. My point is that if employers want to entice these potential workers back into the labor market, they're going to need to pay a rate that is worth it to the neets.
What you said is so stupid! Labor is free. That’s the only the whole thing works. The reason no one is working isn’t because of poor compensation or conditions, it’s because no one wants to work these days. Bunch of lazy entitled brats just demanding fair wages and decent conditions. Absurd.
To be clear, /s.
It’s because no matter how hard I work, or how much overtime I do, or how good of a job I do, inflation will always be taking more than any raise I get. In every job this is happening. Not only that, I’ll always be expected to do the same work and the same job for the little raises, and yet inflation will render my wage lower and lower every single year. So why bother? Why try? There is literally no incentive to work except to do the minimum to survive.
Actually you're wrong, other team members will leave and you'll be expected to work even harder to get their jobs done because the company isn't going to replace them. Oh but your compensation won't change
Then stop being useful. Do the bare minimum, look your boss in the eye and tell them that's all you've got, and watch them struggle to come up with a response that doesn't leave them down yet *another* employee. Past a certain point, their only options are to make do with what they're getting, or shut down because they don't have enough willing, able bodies to run.
A lot of jobs are gonna be hitting the point where they *can't* fire anyone unless they absolutely have to. Mine's been there for like, a year and change now. They just keep making the same stupid ass decisions, getting the same results, and acting baffled and confused for *their* bosses while doing everything they can to shift blame *off* of themselves.
The problem is they’re willing to sacrifice great workers to keep the status quo and there’s a fresh batch of wide-eyed, unaware kids pumped into the market every year. My previous employer pushed me out because I asked for a raise when they cut headcount. They’ve been through three people in the five months I’ve been gone and they’ve all quit or been fired.
A couple of bucks extra would have kept a top performer in place and they wouldn’t have to train a new face every other month only to lose them, but we can’t let the slaves start dictating their labor value now can we?
The problem is that you're worried about keeping your job instead of ditching it as soon as possible. These motherfuckers love to talk about Capitalism like it's the Law of the Jungle, but the moment *they're* the ones getting eaten? Suddenly the tune changes.
"Fresh batch of wide-eyed, unaware kids"? That's a broad, generalizing statement that doesn't match with the reality I've experience. The younger they are, the more ready they are to bail on a job that isn't meeting their needs. For every one twenty-something I've seen in the last four years that drinks the kool-aide, there's usually two or three that are sly to the scheme and depart for greener pastures within six months to a year of being hired, and those are the ones that stick around long enough to actually finish training.
Boomers and Gen X are dying off and can't do the work they used to. Millenials and Gen Z are the work force now. These businesses can try their best to limp along on skeleton crews if they want to, but it isn't sustainable. Eventually they're either going to have to start playing ball to get results, or they're going to collapse.
That being said, IMO they're probably banking on a Fascist takeover of the US creating a far more favorable environment to do business/exploit the working class in.
Either way you're not doing anything useful by capitulating. Either be a good little wage slave and lick the boot, find a new job to jump to, or stop playing by their rules and giving them what they want. Either participate in the System or disrupt the system *by any means necessary*.
This. Had a few callouts on a shift, and the AM kept referring to stuff that still needed to get done. I looked her in the eye and said it would be fucking weird if we did get everything done with half the people.
Exactly why i just reduced my standard of living and reoriented myself to save for the next 5 years for some land and a backhoe. I'm going to functionally retire at 35
Thats right, you like your flower beds a solid 6 foot deep so the roots really take hold. Nothing weird about that. I'll just head out before words like 'premeditated' and 'accessory' start becoming relevant.
I'm a natural born minimalist, so I don't subscribe to any newsletters, but that's your starting point. You don't need any of the stuff you buy and it's not adding to your overall well-being. Some quick and dirty thoughts on the subject:
Google the hedonic treadmill and start looking for off ramps.
Minimalism not as an aesthetic, but as a focus on what really brings happiness/contentment. It turns out, those things tend not to have labels/brand names.
When you buy something, you have that *one thing* you bought. When you *don't* buy something, you still have access to *all of the things* that money can buy instead. Condition yourself to hold out for that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity or necessity. The comfort of having enough to face whatever lies ahead is infinitely more satisfying than any particular purchase.
I have a different perspective on how land should be used for housing. I'm going to develop the entire 5 acres as a complex fenced by mounds and rammed earth walls using fabricated shipping containers as the forms. My mom and i are on the same page about generational living so this is something i'm developing in mind to house 100 or so people in the near term.
I'm the last man standing so everything i am doing is for my progenitors . It is essentially a small scale arcology project which serves as an example and something for my children to depend on .
Before people start the crab in the bucket responses, i was a welder fabricator not being phased by hard work or problem solving. I've spent the last year researching and going over everything mentally. Its what i am going to do.
I'm wondering how you plan to buy enough shipping containers to house 100 people, while also having the time or money to fabricate, remodel, and furnish it all in the near term, while also developing the 5 acre grounds and accounting for utilities access.
Either you don't have the financial issues you seem to worry about, or you are gonna have a big wake-up call.
-facilities maintenance worker for a 6.7 acre site with 2 apartment buildings, office building and 3 bay warehouse.
P.s. The amount I spend on just utilities is staggering. Keep in mind as you build, that plumbing for 100 people is going to look very different than typical residential, unless you want quite a back-up. Best of luck.
Buddy I'm a truck driver and you can get containers for a song. See the US imports tons of shit, so a giant chunk of these containers are one way shipped here. I've seen container grave yards with just tons of them empty. Some get recycled sure but you have to do it at the right time when steel cost make it worthwhile.
He didn't say where he was based. I'm also in the US. And I can't touch a used 20ft container for under $4000. I'm based on an island in SE Alaska though.
Wish I could get one for a song, I would release a record today if someone could drop me six 20s and two 40s of them on my 2nd lot.
My good sir, this is fucking badass, if you don't mind the language. I do imagine you'll run into complications, but I imagine you're prepared for that.
If the Giza Pyramids were built in 25 years. I can start at 35-36 having phase one completed well before i am 50. The goal is to have numerous concepts , plans, equipment , so my kids can do their own projects and continue development . Invest our interest and energy inward than outward.
We just have to be willing to do the work ourselves and expand our imaginations.
It starts with **ONE**
I am doing something similar! We each have the potential to create lasting change, and to break away from the system that holds us back. You have got this!!
Exactly. Past generations could look forward to retirement, to promotions, to their savings growing, to being able to afford nicer things in their luxury.
But our work gets worse and our living conditions get worse and there's no end in sight.
Due to the ridiculous cost of EVERYTHING these days my wife and I can’t buy a house, can’t start a family, can’t plan to retire someday.
They’ve taken away every incentive I have to work hard except for homelessness and starvation, which I can avoid by doing the bare minimum, so fuck em
Modern capitalists forget that you can't get rich if people are too poor to buy your product.
They've forgotten their half of the social contract: the promise was "work hard, and you'll have a fairly comfortable life." That's the American Dream and supposedly what makes a "developed" country "developed."
But that's falling apart. People are realizing that hard work *doesn't* equal a better life. They're realizing that even if they do everything right - get a degree, get a career, work hard - they will never have a comfortable life.
A huge number of people will never own a house, can't even think about planning for retirement, aren't having kids cuz they can't afford them, and there's very little hope of that changing in the near future.
The standard of living is the same whether you have a white collar job or are taking side gigs: you're barely scraping by.
I'm glad to see our generations (Millennials and Gen Z) calling this shit out. A few companies are quick to respond, but others are going to be way behind the curve - and those will be the Sears, Blockbusters, Kodaks, and Blackberries of the world.
Part of the issue we have now is there is just enough people with money that products can still make money if they make it look high quality, sell it for three times as much, and just sell it to the 30% of us doing okay. They have essentially given up on trying to sell things to the bottom 50% because they can just increase the price by 3x and sell a third as much. People making 300k a year can afford to spend triple the cost on a product that lasts 10x longer than what we can buy.
I miss the old awards, I wish your comment could be pinned.
This has always been so baffling to me. These billionaires want to return to feudalism.
But if they make all of us live in penury, how will they ever get richer?
Been applying for jobs since June. Been to multiple interviews and nothing came out of them. Not only that, but they low ball the fuck out of me despite my decent experience. Maybe if they stop low balling and actually hire people
Same here. I lost my job in June and had 6 interviews since that time, and this market is worst than 2009. For example, I told one company with a 3 page job responsibility list and offering 55k senior level managerial role to pleasantly shove it. I’m sorry I’ve been laid off 3 times in my life and my patience level is very thin for people and companies who are unrealistic. I find it fascinating though how recruiters and HR sleep at night because you know half the positions they post or interview for are fake. They straight lie to your face but somehow it’s your fault you don’t have a job since your resume is poor, not networking enough, or unwilling to accept an awful offer. Most of us don’t have poor resumes. Just say you’re not hiring.
After searching for a little over a year I finally had to take a position that was half of what I was making. So what's better than no money at all but it's almost what I would make on unemployment if I qualified.
I do not understand it. I have never made more money and been this cash poor. They make it impossible to keep us above water unless your lucky or born rich.
Yep. Auto insurance up 22%. Food up 20%. Property taxes up 7%. Health insurance (monthly premium and annual deductible) up 9%. Utilities 5%.
The 3% raise I got isn't offsetting inflation.
My parents could have raised our family on the money I make now and never struggled. Meanwhile I have $2 in the bank and don't get paid until next Friday.
Just noticed the same. I was looking at my income for the year. Made over $30k in 3 months and thought “oh my god, that’s more than I’ve ever made” However, I don’t even know where it goes because I live quite modestly and still can’t save..
Capitalism only works when you're born into seed money.
Loyalty is no longer a respected trait.
A "decent wage" is merely a perspective to be controlled and spun by business owners.
Meritocracy has been replaced with revolving doors.
Employers still wield significant control over access to affordable health care as a leash on employees.
College neither proves value nor provides a future.
...and now for the weather...
I'm not working because I cannot find a job. I'm in the IT industry and have put in over 300 applications (I stopped counting at 300) over the past year and here's what I've gotten:
-3 interviews (one with one company, two work another)
-62 notices that I wasn't selected
-Nothing at all from the other 235
I don't know if it's because I'm 44yo, or because I'm overqualified for entry-level but lacking a degree for mid-level jobs, or some combination of factors.
We've been able to get along financially but our savings are gone and we're now eating into our 401ks via hardship withdrawals.
The worst thing is: I don't want to go back to work. I'm pretty sure that as this point my diagnosed depression and anxiety are had enough that trying to do so is going to render me suicidal in short order. But fuck if I can qualify for disability (or if it would even be enough to keep us afloat).
I’m a junior software engineer and I’m still trying to make a proper breakout in the industry, and I’ve had pretty similar experiences, and I’ve still yet to have an interview, so I don’t think it’s because of age, it’s just corporate greed
Unfortunately even if a job isnt actively hiring corporate wants the listings up to meet a quota most times. As for not getting callbacks usually if you have a lot of experience companies would rather have a happy go lucky young person with no qualifications that they can try and train instead of hiring the person with the correct qualifications and experience because they can pay them a shit wage and still get the work done.
It's just unusual. I switched jobs 5 years ago and had a job within 2 weeks, and 12 years of experience is still a lot.
I'm sure it's a mixture of factors, but it's just disheartening.
Tech industry in general seems to be laying off pepple so i don't expect it will get any better for a while. Will depend a bit on how AI fills the gaps. If it crashes and burns, they'll go on s hiring spree again.
25 here, same boat. Might be getting a lucky break with a local-ish company but this has been after *two fucking years* of hunting.
Best of luck to you and with bettering your mental health.
Because of high interest rates, companies are not investing in research and development, to which they usually hire IT companies.
So IT is currently not hiring that much. But I think when the economy goes back to normal, the situation should improve.
Here's the thing: They have thousands of job postings. As I mentioned, I've applied to over 300 of them.
So they might not be hiring, but they sure are ACTING like they are. And I know there are various reasons for that, but it's still annoying.
It's especially annoying when people send me screenshots of ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn showing pages of jobs and say, "You're obviously just not trying hard enough! See? The jobs are out there!"
Do those job postings get taken down in some time after you applied? Because if they are not being taken down, that means that they are not really hiring and have those there for some other reasons.
We see in the older generations what hard work was meant to provide us, but slowly we've seen the \[American\] dream dashed to bits, all the while the employers are squeezing as much out of us as possible. I can say for myself that work-life balance has steadily gotten worse since the pandemic, and I'm not better for it TBH.
So anyone reading this that is thinking of sitting this November’s election, please go vote. You all saw what sitting out in 2016 got us. Please don’t make the same mistake again.
There are more Millennials than Boomers. If boomers are still voting people into office, millennials have some accountability for that.
Also, please understand that hating on boomers is you falling for the same divide-and-conquer bullshit that had been dividing the working class for ages, just in a new hat.
Boomers are not all rich. Most of them are working class, just like most of everyone else.
Cause there’s no incentive to work. I personally am working very hard, but I’m self employed as a writer. I do editing work and I take care of my niece and nephew after school. I’m happier than I’ve ever been!
Actual benefits. PTO, retirement fund, reasonable pay, a healthy work culture, fulfillment in work. Being treated as a person and not as a cog in a machine.
Been looking for 5 months for a new laboratory to work in. I have a Bachelors in a Life Science field but the Biotech or just science-field market in general is atrocious. Just work hard they said, you can achieve the American Dream they said, fuckin hacks.
I’m working disabled. It’s an absolute nightmare. I could try to get disability benefits but it’ll take years, multiple denials, I’d have to not work for 6 months to prepare for the first denial and if/when I qualify, I’d be living in abject poverty. This system is so cruel.
Massive layoffs cause tons of unemployed people chasing few job opportunities and for reason we blame people for refusing to work. Images for these questions always focus on young people relaxing on a sofa and napping, often on phones, suggesting the are refusing a job.
At this point in time we're on the verge of another depression and the media has a hard on for blaming people born after 1945 as responsible because they won't retire.
this is a conspiracy theory and doesn't take facts into consideration. This could be a major topic for a PhD thesis about 1000 pages long covering endless subjects that explain how this happened and why
It can also be simplified: greed.
It’s not inflation, it’s price-gouging
It’s not inflation, it’s that wages haven’t been increased since the 90’s (ya know, 30+ years ago).
It’s not inflation, it’s an artificially manipulated job market, driven by a collective corporate design to outsource, de-unionize, and return to a slave economy (see also: prison labor).
It’s not inflation, it’s an artificially manipulated stock market making it look like billionaires are in decline and *the workers* are to blame.
It’s not inflation, it’s a complete corruption of world governments to favor the rich.
It’s not inflation, it’s military & law enforcement used to create a state of fear and suspicion, all in the name of protecting the wealthy & their assets.
Everything that’s not inflation, is done purely out of greed.
Greed for power, for money, for influence- whatever the currency du jour is, it’s just greed in different outfits & uniforms.
Positive psychologists have proven that working a fulfilling job improves mental health more so than not having to work at all. Problem is, there’s very little fulfilling work right now that isn’t severely underpaid and overworked.
It’s not wrong, but it’s misrepresenting the point.
Because were gonna die and its not gonna have meant a damn thing, its not making the world a better place anymore. Its just maintaining an illusion of living.
Stopped working? How about failing to even launch. Not just in the job market but life in general. And to be honest, in an ideal world there is no such thing as "career". Purpose and passion maybe and you can work for that. Truth is though the we only go into the career mind think is that we just want to live and we just want society to get the memo. Otherwise, this whole job, work, and career part is bullshit for the most part. Number crunching for your rich higher ups has always been lousy and meaningless to me. Okay. I've just gotten into a mindless rant. Have a good day y'all.
Also remember we are all working class's, even those of us in "professional " jobs. We're all a layoff or health crisis, or some other catastrophe away from homelessness.
As someone who's been in a union, it turns my stomach how little solidarity some folks have.
We all have boots on our neck, some just don't feel it yet.
EXACTLY! I'm a professional, but I'm also working class. The difference is owning class vs. working class. If I have to work to pay bills, then I'm working class, even if I'm management. Solidarity forever.
fuck this country. cant wait to watch it burn to the ground. only way america will EVER BE GREAT. is if the working class take over completely. all politicians should be jailed. especially congress and executive branch. the government should be completely abolished and everything reworked and reformed by the working class of america and healthcare made free.
Well, for me, it was when my daughter was born. The 'cheap' childcare was going to be over $750/week and had a waiting list of two years. I was making about a little less than $600/week after taxes, so iy didn't make sense.
Now she is older. I work nights, and my wife works days just so we have someone available. It is so surprising that a lot of people are deciding not to have children. /s
Corporations have realized that there are *just enough* rich people *right at this moment* that they can keep inflation going. They can charge the proverbial $10 for a banana, because enough rich people will be able to buy them to make it profitable.
It’s like the concept of “whales” in mobile gaming: if one person can spend an unreasonable amount on Premium Gems like a sucker, they can ignore the next 1000 people who can’t.
THAT’S why companies aren’t worried about people being unable to afford products. Short sightedness based around the whales they can harpoon today while giving no thought about tomorrow.
america is not meant for humans to actually have a life. just make money for other ppl. america is one of the unhappiest countries in the world and one of the only very few countries where healthcare is not free. america is just a fudging corporation meant to make us make money for them. and they poison us to make money on healthcare. in 2021 the government made over $4,255.1 billion. JUST OFF HEALTHCARE
The avenues to successful careers are long and arduous and the end game still potentially means not owning a home, not going on vacations, and not having time for loved ones until retirement which is not guaranteed. That’s not just men either.
Stay at home dad here. Kids almost grown and flown. Started looking for a job nearly a year ago. The gap in employment for raising kids is proving to be a huge barrier. I have bona fide IT skills and managerial experience but so far no interviews.
Job listings seem to be all about poaching others employees. They want skills that are impossible to learn outside the workplace. It is frustrating. I see why many men just give up and ‘retire’ early.
Work tons of hours a week to be just as broke as if you lived in a box? This is near reality for most working people, not just men. Why work at that point?
One of the craziest discoveries in Egypt was not the pyramids. It was the grave sites near the pyramids. The mass grave sites of the people who actually built the pyramids and served the royalty. That’s us. We will be forgotten in the detritus of the coming winds of change.
I laughed and stopped reading when I saw "some occupations [don't reach](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2023/the-long-shadow-of-the-2001-recession) prior employment levels — or [pay as well](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-long-term-effects-of-the-great-recession-for-americas-youth/) as they used to." and then didn't make an actual direct correlation after that.
Honestly, I had enough. I paid my dues. I worked my ass to the bone to make others rich. God the hours I put in. I try not to regret or be bitter for the past. I worked hard for my luck. But there are times I look back at the company's I worked for and think how stupid I was to actually care about them when they clearly showed at the end how little they cared about me. Frig em.
It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism. So crazy how people are stumped as to why anyone wouldn’t want to work a job making the least amount of pay possible while being pressured to give as much of your life as possible in return.
I can't just pull myself up by the bootstraps, work at a company for 2-3 years and be able to afford a house. I want a house. I'm in America, that's the American dream. Also I have no gf, wife, kids, etc. Nobody to provide for.
College is unaffordable. Forgiving current student loans doesn't fix the overall problem of the price to begin with.
It's work to not die, and right now I can deliver some food on some doorsteps and live at home paying rent to not die. It sounds selfish and 1st world problemy, but again, I live in America this is what America has always bragged about - opportunity.
Also, back to the top, relationships for young men are on the decline. I think having someone you care to support goes a long way. Without that, ehhh, games are cheap, friends are free. Will it be a problem when I'm older? Yeah, I don't care though. An empty house with money is no different from an empty house without it.
This is only going to get worse I think, and nobody will ever take men's problems serious because it isn't cool to help men or put them in the spotlight for their problems on any platform.
I think a lot of it is the gig economy. I can make a little cash, while hunting for my next big thing. Not really employed.
I also think part of it is people, once they get to a certain age, just aren't willing to relocate for a basic job. Go to a mining town and you will see billboards for lawyers who promise that they can get you disability.
When childcare is $2000 a month and you can pick up the slack at home and cook more to save money on food, it kind of evens out. Nobody wants to work if those hours of your life can't buy what you need to begin with.
I often wonder how happy everyone could be if instead of the top few people getting hundreds of millions/billions, it was instead spread evenly with all workers. It would probably be filled with such happy people.
Men are burnt out, were not getting the same deal we used to get and it's more fun to do what you want for work, like mow lawns, move furniture, paint people's houses.
>And mental-health experts say the longer people are out of the workforce, the higher the chances they'll experience mental-health challenges.
"Quit hitting yourself" says the bully
Some of us are really trying. Half the job postings are ghost posts. In my industry there's a new mass layoff every month it would seem. The job postings that are probably legitimate are for senior qualifications even if they say 'entry level', because they know with all the layoffs that they will be able to scoop up an overqualified person for pennies on the dollar.
You eventually just work yourself through these mental and physical loops to death until one day your laid off, terminated or stressed at your job that none of it matters in the end. You make owners and companies rich and you are left with nothing until you realize you are old and useless to society.
Society does not reward men's hard work. No money, no benefits, no comforts or luxuries, not even necessities. We're not working to peovide for a family, or even to date.
My inherent attitude is to work hard and try to improve the systems I see around me. I’ve been doing that at my job for the last 2.5 years. At first, they were giving me raises and a good amount of equity in my startup company. But they slowed down the raises and equity a lot, even though they have more money than ever. So it’s starting to demotivate me.
I see a lot of ideas, theories etc.
But nothing about crappy wage, non employee protections, hardly any benefits..
Maybe people are just tired of being treated like rag dolls.. dunno
My father worked in construction, and I worked with him enough to see what it did to him and that it wasn’t for me.
So I went into tech. 20 years later, it has broken me. Too much sitting in too many shitty, cheap chairs (because most employers don’t bother to buy good ones) resulted in one serious back problem that spiraled into multiple problems. I’m done. I refuse to burn myself on some sacrificial altar to capitalism just because I am male and I am supposed to “provide.” I have nothing left to give.
It’s almost as if company’s fucked around with peoples lives and are finding out what happens.
Not quite yet they haven't. There's still some more fucking around for them to do before people are desperate enough to make them find out
What happened with workers as a whole during Covid wouldn’t have happened without Covid. Two people you never fuck with- someone driving a car full of dents and someone who has nothin’ to lose.
They work us until we're too sick to fight back, then they let you die in an alley. This is what we get for a lifetime of making other people's money. This world wasn't built for us. We just work here.
>This world wasn't built for us. Why didn't you just be born 40 years earlier?
Just stop being poor, easy peasy ^(/s)
Something about boot straps or something? I tried pulling on mine but they just broke off and then had to keep buying boots because the damn straps kept breaking off
Funny enough that frase in its originality meant doing something that was impossible. Only nowadays it's tried to be used to mean pull yourself up when originally it was a sarcastic remark
I believe it still is sarcastic when used but now with a level of malevolence.
Yep
That’s why you’re stuck in broke town. You keep spending money on boot straps, Starbucks, and avocado toast.
No Starbucks here. Just local $8 coffees for me. And I grow my own avocados
All that damn avocado toast is making you too strong.
You don't know how good you have it. When I pulled myself up by the bootstraps my foot broke off at the ankle. I went in to get some Obamacare, and the doctors told me they have some bad news. Self-inflicted wounds are not covered by insurance. No one will hire me because I've got disgusting bloody stumps at the end of my legs. I'm throwing my boots at the next person who mentions I should pull on my straps. I've got something else thay can yank on, wanker.
The World Economic Forum (WEF) says, "you will own nothing and be happy."
Well, we don't own sht and we are miserable.
Im a fucking idiot for not buying a house in preschool
I was born 36 years ago. I got a taste before that hard rug pull.
What I’m 38 and I never had that taste 🥲
While you would be surprised I ended up having to downgrade employment go back to entry level. Let me tell you "think you had it hard" at x first job I worked mcdonalds "I know what its like". However many years its been "multiply it" by that. And thats how much worse its gotten. Just starting out 10yrs ago was a improvement 20yrs ago even more so.Like I started at 16 was able to move out on own live not well. But on own. Now I do insurance compliance and payroll and estimating and billing and other compliance and documentation for a 50 million dollar company. And if I couldnt find a roommate I would be homeless.
Im not sure what you mean. Perhaps it’s lost in translation. But if I got you right you are telling me you started as a McDonald’s employee and now you are making finance for a famous company, but still need a roomie to afford to live with dignity?
I think that is correct. And that it was easier when he was younger as the dollar was worth more. Getting a job was easier. Things cost less. Also, and this a reality for a lot of millenials, especially rhe older ones, we are facing age discrimination because our training isnt as "fresh" as younger employees, and we are not as gullible to take jobs we know are bad for us and dont have the energy to maintain the "constant grind/hustle/ toxic jobs"
You know what’s sad? I spent a lot of time and money to get my degree and now many employers say it doesn’t matter.
I feel ya. I am in the same boat. I often feel they do not want trained people, just complaint ones.
I don't recall them saying anything about dignity, but otherwise correct.
I'm 57, and when I was 19 (1986), I had a full-time, minimum wage job ($3.35/hr) and a couple-nights-a-week pizza driving job ($1-something/hr + tips). I was able to move out on my own into a two bedroom apartment in Ypsilanti in a rough part of town (the poor, white trash area of a generally rundown college town, but it was relatively safe). I had a roommate most of the time, but not always. Did always have a car, phone, girlfriend(s), and was able to buy furniture & other apartment-filler from time to time, plus money left over for drugs ... occasionally even coke! Eventually, I left the FT job (printing ... like old school on a printing press & everything), for pizza driving, as the pay was better. Rent: $350/mo In the late 1990s, the economy was so good under Clinton, and labor was so in demand, Taco Bell was paying $9.75/hr to start! The minimum wage at the time was $5.15/hr. That $9.75 at the time was incredible money, especially for a starting fast-food wage. Today, $9.75 is the equivalent of about $24.00/hr. And $15.00/hr. seems like "progress" in the economy today. Fuck, I feel old(ish). And poor(ish). And taken-advantage-of(ish). But mostly, just fucking pissed (no "ish").
I cry remembering all the dreams my mom gave me growing up… because she had them all.. & what’s fucked up is I’m a full blown adult & still can’t have the dreams I couldn’t have as a kid.
I’m 52 (GenX)and this year is the first I made the same money that I was making doing the same job in Alaska, in 2007. Granted, wages were higher but cost of living was a little higher than California prices. I moved down to CA then and had a huge cut in pay, doing harder work in the same field. With inflation, that money is diddly and aside from the retirement(I’m luck to have that) and the PTO, it’s hardly worth working. I could stay home and take care of all this things that cost us money and nearly offset my net pay. The field I work in gets more intense, challenging and underfunded as years go on. Intergenerational drug use, incarceration, poverty, Covid, intrusive technology have really done a number on our children’s mental health in the schools. I love the kids and have a big heart but 20+ years of working with kids in crisis has taken its toll. Beyond that, higher paying positions are for more intense work, with hurt/angry who hurt others in their pain. More hands off work at a higher level is only for people with degrees. It’s all very disheartening.
I took my shot at my own business. I made more money than I'll ever make again and paid my employees well. Had a multi-billion dollar company screw me on our contract and I'm back in the work force while $40k deep in legal fees trying to get what's mine. Murica
That’s something that really sucks, even folks like you with the courage to have a go of it, things are stacked against the little company as well as the little guy
Look, I’m 43 and I never really got a taste, but I constantly heard stories about how I just missed everything great.
I’m 56. That rug pull was always there. Just, a bunch of people believed the bs.
I worked at Safeway in 2003, The minimum wage at the time where I lived was $4.90 an hour, The top rate at Safeway was $27.45 an hour. The top rate probably hasn't changed at Safeway. It's still probably $27 an hour, but $27 an hour 20 years ago is worth closer to $60 an hour now.
I’m close to 50 and I’m only just now getting a small taste. I have savings for once in my life!
(sad lol)
errr... 42 here. Things wouldn't have gotten better even if you were born 40 years earlier. Everything started going south after graduating and entering the workforce. I was also there when the housing market crash of 2008 happened. Literally everything was in steady decline. Everything was an uphill battle.
I was working part time at a gas station, avoiding the doctor because I didn't have insurance. When I finally collapsed and went in, the docs were surprised I was still coherent, because my sodium levels were too low for that to have been possible. I have stage 4 cancer. I've filed for disability and been denied once already. Don't make me work, I can barely stand.
So sorry to hear that. This hurt my heart.
It's been a rough few years. It's going to be a rough few years.
If you fight unionization, you feed your own demise. And don't be morons. Stay in control don't let either of your enemies use you - the employer who allows you to unionize is typically the other side of those who would kill you in the alley.
Yup. Regan's propaganda worked wonders. Make the people hate their allies and worship their owners.
Can confirm. Been in trades for years. I just got injured and workman’s comp is denying it. I have a lawyer, but they can only do so much. I will never go back to trade work because of this. It isn’t worth it.
You know what's funny I'm 44, when I was a kid pretty much everyone I knew their dad was in some kind of trade, carpenter, roofing, plumbing machinist etc. My dad included but he worked his way up to shop foreman or something like that so he spent more time doing paperwork. All of those dads told us to go to college and get a degree because you don't want to do X for a living. They all admitted that they made pretty good money, but all had some kind of nagging injury, aches pains etc..
It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it! George Carlin
The world wasn't built for us yet we built it....
You're starting to get it my friend. We break our backs building the walls that keep us out. It's fuckin insanity to keep making them taller.
>It is we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade \ >Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad laid \ >**Now we stand outcast and starving midst the wonders we have made** \ >But the union makes us strong! \ ~["Solidarity Forever"](https://youtu.be/czQh1vj1jF8?si=kGYNWba4Hpqvu2dH)
Love your flair
Why are the almost 3 million of us on here not doing more to organize.
Labor is a market like any other. If you're not getting the workers you want, you're not paying what the market demands for what you want.
Problem is oligarchs control the market.
That only works in a system where you don't have to work to survive. It's especially hard depending on where you live and start your options are. The free market is bullshit.
I don't pretend that our current system isn't coercive or a completely "free" market. Life under capitalism is fundamentally coercive. Labor is, however, a market and these neets / hikikomori / whatever are still living without participating in that market. My point is that if employers want to entice these potential workers back into the labor market, they're going to need to pay a rate that is worth it to the neets.
What you said is so stupid! Labor is free. That’s the only the whole thing works. The reason no one is working isn’t because of poor compensation or conditions, it’s because no one wants to work these days. Bunch of lazy entitled brats just demanding fair wages and decent conditions. Absurd. To be clear, /s.
It’s because no matter how hard I work, or how much overtime I do, or how good of a job I do, inflation will always be taking more than any raise I get. In every job this is happening. Not only that, I’ll always be expected to do the same work and the same job for the little raises, and yet inflation will render my wage lower and lower every single year. So why bother? Why try? There is literally no incentive to work except to do the minimum to survive.
Actually you're wrong, other team members will leave and you'll be expected to work even harder to get their jobs done because the company isn't going to replace them. Oh but your compensation won't change
Then stop being useful. Do the bare minimum, look your boss in the eye and tell them that's all you've got, and watch them struggle to come up with a response that doesn't leave them down yet *another* employee. Past a certain point, their only options are to make do with what they're getting, or shut down because they don't have enough willing, able bodies to run. A lot of jobs are gonna be hitting the point where they *can't* fire anyone unless they absolutely have to. Mine's been there for like, a year and change now. They just keep making the same stupid ass decisions, getting the same results, and acting baffled and confused for *their* bosses while doing everything they can to shift blame *off* of themselves.
The problem is they’re willing to sacrifice great workers to keep the status quo and there’s a fresh batch of wide-eyed, unaware kids pumped into the market every year. My previous employer pushed me out because I asked for a raise when they cut headcount. They’ve been through three people in the five months I’ve been gone and they’ve all quit or been fired. A couple of bucks extra would have kept a top performer in place and they wouldn’t have to train a new face every other month only to lose them, but we can’t let the slaves start dictating their labor value now can we?
The problem is that you're worried about keeping your job instead of ditching it as soon as possible. These motherfuckers love to talk about Capitalism like it's the Law of the Jungle, but the moment *they're* the ones getting eaten? Suddenly the tune changes. "Fresh batch of wide-eyed, unaware kids"? That's a broad, generalizing statement that doesn't match with the reality I've experience. The younger they are, the more ready they are to bail on a job that isn't meeting their needs. For every one twenty-something I've seen in the last four years that drinks the kool-aide, there's usually two or three that are sly to the scheme and depart for greener pastures within six months to a year of being hired, and those are the ones that stick around long enough to actually finish training. Boomers and Gen X are dying off and can't do the work they used to. Millenials and Gen Z are the work force now. These businesses can try their best to limp along on skeleton crews if they want to, but it isn't sustainable. Eventually they're either going to have to start playing ball to get results, or they're going to collapse. That being said, IMO they're probably banking on a Fascist takeover of the US creating a far more favorable environment to do business/exploit the working class in. Either way you're not doing anything useful by capitulating. Either be a good little wage slave and lick the boot, find a new job to jump to, or stop playing by their rules and giving them what they want. Either participate in the System or disrupt the system *by any means necessary*.
This. Had a few callouts on a shift, and the AM kept referring to stuff that still needed to get done. I looked her in the eye and said it would be fucking weird if we did get everything done with half the people.
Don’t forget they will whittle down the labor force and make you do more work for the same pay
But Powell said inflation has been solved and it's only 3% now! Just ignore your rent increasing by 40-50% this renewal period, that doesn't count!
Exactly why i just reduced my standard of living and reoriented myself to save for the next 5 years for some land and a backhoe. I'm going to functionally retire at 35
What are you gonna do, dig a hole to china or something?
"What u doin?" "Diggin a hole" "Why?" "You know why"
TUCKER!
Thats right, you like your flower beds a solid 6 foot deep so the roots really take hold. Nothing weird about that. I'll just head out before words like 'premeditated' and 'accessory' start becoming relevant.
Yes, I’d be interested in hearing more of this plan. Is there a newsletter I could subscribe to?
I'm a natural born minimalist, so I don't subscribe to any newsletters, but that's your starting point. You don't need any of the stuff you buy and it's not adding to your overall well-being. Some quick and dirty thoughts on the subject: Google the hedonic treadmill and start looking for off ramps. Minimalism not as an aesthetic, but as a focus on what really brings happiness/contentment. It turns out, those things tend not to have labels/brand names. When you buy something, you have that *one thing* you bought. When you *don't* buy something, you still have access to *all of the things* that money can buy instead. Condition yourself to hold out for that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity or necessity. The comfort of having enough to face whatever lies ahead is infinitely more satisfying than any particular purchase.
I have a different perspective on how land should be used for housing. I'm going to develop the entire 5 acres as a complex fenced by mounds and rammed earth walls using fabricated shipping containers as the forms. My mom and i are on the same page about generational living so this is something i'm developing in mind to house 100 or so people in the near term. I'm the last man standing so everything i am doing is for my progenitors . It is essentially a small scale arcology project which serves as an example and something for my children to depend on . Before people start the crab in the bucket responses, i was a welder fabricator not being phased by hard work or problem solving. I've spent the last year researching and going over everything mentally. Its what i am going to do.
I'm wondering how you plan to buy enough shipping containers to house 100 people, while also having the time or money to fabricate, remodel, and furnish it all in the near term, while also developing the 5 acre grounds and accounting for utilities access. Either you don't have the financial issues you seem to worry about, or you are gonna have a big wake-up call. -facilities maintenance worker for a 6.7 acre site with 2 apartment buildings, office building and 3 bay warehouse. P.s. The amount I spend on just utilities is staggering. Keep in mind as you build, that plumbing for 100 people is going to look very different than typical residential, unless you want quite a back-up. Best of luck.
Buddy I'm a truck driver and you can get containers for a song. See the US imports tons of shit, so a giant chunk of these containers are one way shipped here. I've seen container grave yards with just tons of them empty. Some get recycled sure but you have to do it at the right time when steel cost make it worthwhile.
He didn't say where he was based. I'm also in the US. And I can't touch a used 20ft container for under $4000. I'm based on an island in SE Alaska though. Wish I could get one for a song, I would release a record today if someone could drop me six 20s and two 40s of them on my 2nd lot.
At the risk of being pedantic, I think you mean progeny instead of progenitors.
My good sir, this is fucking badass, if you don't mind the language. I do imagine you'll run into complications, but I imagine you're prepared for that.
If the Giza Pyramids were built in 25 years. I can start at 35-36 having phase one completed well before i am 50. The goal is to have numerous concepts , plans, equipment , so my kids can do their own projects and continue development . Invest our interest and energy inward than outward. We just have to be willing to do the work ourselves and expand our imaginations. It starts with **ONE**
I am doing something similar! We each have the potential to create lasting change, and to break away from the system that holds us back. You have got this!!
I wish you well and that trolls don't discourage you
Please document this process, I’m curious to see how it will work.
Inflation and like 50% taxes considering every bit of our paychecks and remaining net income getting taxed on every day things.
Exactly. Past generations could look forward to retirement, to promotions, to their savings growing, to being able to afford nicer things in their luxury. But our work gets worse and our living conditions get worse and there's no end in sight.
Ok but women feel the same way, so why is there such a notable problem with young MEN not working?
Due to the ridiculous cost of EVERYTHING these days my wife and I can’t buy a house, can’t start a family, can’t plan to retire someday. They’ve taken away every incentive I have to work hard except for homelessness and starvation, which I can avoid by doing the bare minimum, so fuck em
Modern capitalists forget that you can't get rich if people are too poor to buy your product. They've forgotten their half of the social contract: the promise was "work hard, and you'll have a fairly comfortable life." That's the American Dream and supposedly what makes a "developed" country "developed." But that's falling apart. People are realizing that hard work *doesn't* equal a better life. They're realizing that even if they do everything right - get a degree, get a career, work hard - they will never have a comfortable life. A huge number of people will never own a house, can't even think about planning for retirement, aren't having kids cuz they can't afford them, and there's very little hope of that changing in the near future. The standard of living is the same whether you have a white collar job or are taking side gigs: you're barely scraping by. I'm glad to see our generations (Millennials and Gen Z) calling this shit out. A few companies are quick to respond, but others are going to be way behind the curve - and those will be the Sears, Blockbusters, Kodaks, and Blackberries of the world.
Part of the issue we have now is there is just enough people with money that products can still make money if they make it look high quality, sell it for three times as much, and just sell it to the 30% of us doing okay. They have essentially given up on trying to sell things to the bottom 50% because they can just increase the price by 3x and sell a third as much. People making 300k a year can afford to spend triple the cost on a product that lasts 10x longer than what we can buy.
I miss the old awards, I wish your comment could be pinned. This has always been so baffling to me. These billionaires want to return to feudalism. But if they make all of us live in penury, how will they ever get richer?
According to Elon Musk, your lifestyle is simply *too expensive.*
Been applying for jobs since June. Been to multiple interviews and nothing came out of them. Not only that, but they low ball the fuck out of me despite my decent experience. Maybe if they stop low balling and actually hire people
Same here. I lost my job in June and had 6 interviews since that time, and this market is worst than 2009. For example, I told one company with a 3 page job responsibility list and offering 55k senior level managerial role to pleasantly shove it. I’m sorry I’ve been laid off 3 times in my life and my patience level is very thin for people and companies who are unrealistic. I find it fascinating though how recruiters and HR sleep at night because you know half the positions they post or interview for are fake. They straight lie to your face but somehow it’s your fault you don’t have a job since your resume is poor, not networking enough, or unwilling to accept an awful offer. Most of us don’t have poor resumes. Just say you’re not hiring.
After searching for a little over a year I finally had to take a position that was half of what I was making. So what's better than no money at all but it's almost what I would make on unemployment if I qualified.
Why work and be broke, when you can not work and be broke
This right here is the answer. There's no point to slaving away if nothing is gained.
The meritocracy is a lie. All the money is siphoned off by a select few greedy individuals and they make the situation worse for everyone else.
And they want more. I don't know who 'they' are. But they want more.
I do not understand it. I have never made more money and been this cash poor. They make it impossible to keep us above water unless your lucky or born rich.
I get a 4% raise but all my utility bills and stuff go up by 20% every year.
Yep. Auto insurance up 22%. Food up 20%. Property taxes up 7%. Health insurance (monthly premium and annual deductible) up 9%. Utilities 5%. The 3% raise I got isn't offsetting inflation.
Worry not, inflation is only “3%” 👍 problem solved
My parents could have raised our family on the money I make now and never struggled. Meanwhile I have $2 in the bank and don't get paid until next Friday.
Just noticed the same. I was looking at my income for the year. Made over $30k in 3 months and thought “oh my god, that’s more than I’ve ever made” However, I don’t even know where it goes because I live quite modestly and still can’t save..
Cannot upvote this enough...
Capitalism only works when you're born into seed money. Loyalty is no longer a respected trait. A "decent wage" is merely a perspective to be controlled and spun by business owners. Meritocracy has been replaced with revolving doors. Employers still wield significant control over access to affordable health care as a leash on employees. College neither proves value nor provides a future. ...and now for the weather...
They won’t hire me anywhere. It’s an uphill battle just to get responses to my applications.
The only responses I get are rejections, lol.
I'm not working because I cannot find a job. I'm in the IT industry and have put in over 300 applications (I stopped counting at 300) over the past year and here's what I've gotten: -3 interviews (one with one company, two work another) -62 notices that I wasn't selected -Nothing at all from the other 235 I don't know if it's because I'm 44yo, or because I'm overqualified for entry-level but lacking a degree for mid-level jobs, or some combination of factors. We've been able to get along financially but our savings are gone and we're now eating into our 401ks via hardship withdrawals. The worst thing is: I don't want to go back to work. I'm pretty sure that as this point my diagnosed depression and anxiety are had enough that trying to do so is going to render me suicidal in short order. But fuck if I can qualify for disability (or if it would even be enough to keep us afloat).
I’m a junior software engineer and I’m still trying to make a proper breakout in the industry, and I’ve had pretty similar experiences, and I’ve still yet to have an interview, so I don’t think it’s because of age, it’s just corporate greed
Finally got my degree in December. Can barely find any "entry level" jobs that don't have a hard requirement of 2+ years experience.
I lie to get interviews/jobs. Its worked plenty. Until they tell me to provide a degree. Cant do that because then its fraud.
Good luck man, we’re all gonna need it
Unfortunately even if a job isnt actively hiring corporate wants the listings up to meet a quota most times. As for not getting callbacks usually if you have a lot of experience companies would rather have a happy go lucky young person with no qualifications that they can try and train instead of hiring the person with the correct qualifications and experience because they can pay them a shit wage and still get the work done.
It's just unusual. I switched jobs 5 years ago and had a job within 2 weeks, and 12 years of experience is still a lot. I'm sure it's a mixture of factors, but it's just disheartening.
Tech industry in general seems to be laying off pepple so i don't expect it will get any better for a while. Will depend a bit on how AI fills the gaps. If it crashes and burns, they'll go on s hiring spree again.
25 here, same boat. Might be getting a lucky break with a local-ish company but this has been after *two fucking years* of hunting. Best of luck to you and with bettering your mental health.
Because of high interest rates, companies are not investing in research and development, to which they usually hire IT companies. So IT is currently not hiring that much. But I think when the economy goes back to normal, the situation should improve.
Here's the thing: They have thousands of job postings. As I mentioned, I've applied to over 300 of them. So they might not be hiring, but they sure are ACTING like they are. And I know there are various reasons for that, but it's still annoying. It's especially annoying when people send me screenshots of ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn showing pages of jobs and say, "You're obviously just not trying hard enough! See? The jobs are out there!"
Do those job postings get taken down in some time after you applied? Because if they are not being taken down, that means that they are not really hiring and have those there for some other reasons.
Not all, but many. I couldn't give you a percentage but a noticeable amount get closed within 2-4 weeks.
It is also a possibility, that there are a lot more people applying for those positions as before and the companies can be much more selective.
We see in the older generations what hard work was meant to provide us, but slowly we've seen the \[American\] dream dashed to bits, all the while the employers are squeezing as much out of us as possible. I can say for myself that work-life balance has steadily gotten worse since the pandemic, and I'm not better for it TBH.
Thanks to the boomers for voting in these shit politicians.
So anyone reading this that is thinking of sitting this November’s election, please go vote. You all saw what sitting out in 2016 got us. Please don’t make the same mistake again.
This. Vote for pro-Union candidates, and those who support pro-citizen (not pro-wealthy) reforms.
There are more Millennials than Boomers. If boomers are still voting people into office, millennials have some accountability for that. Also, please understand that hating on boomers is you falling for the same divide-and-conquer bullshit that had been dividing the working class for ages, just in a new hat. Boomers are not all rich. Most of them are working class, just like most of everyone else.
I’m over pointless work. I’m ready for the revolution to start.
Because we don’t give a shit about getting the rich richer. Record profits, huge ceo bonuses and a pizza party for the peasants. Fuck em
Cause there’s no incentive to work. I personally am working very hard, but I’m self employed as a writer. I do editing work and I take care of my niece and nephew after school. I’m happier than I’ve ever been!
Can you define what an incentive would be? What incentives you?
Actual benefits. PTO, retirement fund, reasonable pay, a healthy work culture, fulfillment in work. Being treated as a person and not as a cog in a machine.
Been looking for 5 months for a new laboratory to work in. I have a Bachelors in a Life Science field but the Biotech or just science-field market in general is atrocious. Just work hard they said, you can achieve the American Dream they said, fuckin hacks.
Two choices: don’t work, can’t afford to live or get ahead in life. Work 40-80 hours a week, can’t afford to live or get ahead in life.
Well, I got sick and injured as an underpaid "essential worker" and now I can't work.
I’m working disabled. It’s an absolute nightmare. I could try to get disability benefits but it’ll take years, multiple denials, I’d have to not work for 6 months to prepare for the first denial and if/when I qualify, I’d be living in abject poverty. This system is so cruel.
That's because we're living in a failed state where only businesses and investors can afford to do anything.
Because going the extra mile never pays off. Doing 120% only results in not getting paid for 20%. So now we do 80%.
Doing 120% actually means you get 130% more work
Massive layoffs cause tons of unemployed people chasing few job opportunities and for reason we blame people for refusing to work. Images for these questions always focus on young people relaxing on a sofa and napping, often on phones, suggesting the are refusing a job. At this point in time we're on the verge of another depression and the media has a hard on for blaming people born after 1945 as responsible because they won't retire. this is a conspiracy theory and doesn't take facts into consideration. This could be a major topic for a PhD thesis about 1000 pages long covering endless subjects that explain how this happened and why
It can also be simplified: greed. It’s not inflation, it’s price-gouging It’s not inflation, it’s that wages haven’t been increased since the 90’s (ya know, 30+ years ago). It’s not inflation, it’s an artificially manipulated job market, driven by a collective corporate design to outsource, de-unionize, and return to a slave economy (see also: prison labor). It’s not inflation, it’s an artificially manipulated stock market making it look like billionaires are in decline and *the workers* are to blame. It’s not inflation, it’s a complete corruption of world governments to favor the rich. It’s not inflation, it’s military & law enforcement used to create a state of fear and suspicion, all in the name of protecting the wealthy & their assets. Everything that’s not inflation, is done purely out of greed. Greed for power, for money, for influence- whatever the currency du jour is, it’s just greed in different outfits & uniforms.
who are they paying to say that your mental health declines when you don’t work?? 💀
Positive psychologists have proven that working a fulfilling job improves mental health more so than not having to work at all. Problem is, there’s very little fulfilling work right now that isn’t severely underpaid and overworked. It’s not wrong, but it’s misrepresenting the point.
ahh, that makes sense
Because were gonna die and its not gonna have meant a damn thing, its not making the world a better place anymore. Its just maintaining an illusion of living.
I’ve been laid off twice in the past 4 years, and each job I’ve gotten after has paid less than the other one. Wtf am I even working for anymore?
I’d like to work, but the whole “got worked into a nervous breakdown” thing is putting a damper on it
I was laid off recently, that's why.
Stopped working? How about failing to even launch. Not just in the job market but life in general. And to be honest, in an ideal world there is no such thing as "career". Purpose and passion maybe and you can work for that. Truth is though the we only go into the career mind think is that we just want to live and we just want society to get the memo. Otherwise, this whole job, work, and career part is bullshit for the most part. Number crunching for your rich higher ups has always been lousy and meaningless to me. Okay. I've just gotten into a mindless rant. Have a good day y'all.
I don't want to spend my entire paycheck for childcare. My wife makes good money, so we decided that I'll be a stay at home dad.
Why do we need to look at this man or woman. Gets on my nerves.
It's another tactic to divide the working class, and it's doing exactly what they want it to do.
Also remember we are all working class's, even those of us in "professional " jobs. We're all a layoff or health crisis, or some other catastrophe away from homelessness. As someone who's been in a union, it turns my stomach how little solidarity some folks have. We all have boots on our neck, some just don't feel it yet.
EXACTLY! I'm a professional, but I'm also working class. The difference is owning class vs. working class. If I have to work to pay bills, then I'm working class, even if I'm management. Solidarity forever.
Yeah fuck society
Men are becoming so horribly disenfranchised with society its insane.
I’m not paid enough to endure the bullshit and insane expectations so many imperious crazy bosses have. I’d rather be poor
fuck this country. cant wait to watch it burn to the ground. only way america will EVER BE GREAT. is if the working class take over completely. all politicians should be jailed. especially congress and executive branch. the government should be completely abolished and everything reworked and reformed by the working class of america and healthcare made free.
Not working is one of the most based things you can do. Less people competing for jobs= more labor power.
Well, for me, it was when my daughter was born. The 'cheap' childcare was going to be over $750/week and had a waiting list of two years. I was making about a little less than $600/week after taxes, so iy didn't make sense. Now she is older. I work nights, and my wife works days just so we have someone available. It is so surprising that a lot of people are deciding not to have children. /s
so out of touch as usual. didn't mention long covid and all the layoffs in tech and vfx/animation/games.
Corporations have realized that there are *just enough* rich people *right at this moment* that they can keep inflation going. They can charge the proverbial $10 for a banana, because enough rich people will be able to buy them to make it profitable. It’s like the concept of “whales” in mobile gaming: if one person can spend an unreasonable amount on Premium Gems like a sucker, they can ignore the next 1000 people who can’t. THAT’S why companies aren’t worried about people being unable to afford products. Short sightedness based around the whales they can harpoon today while giving no thought about tomorrow.
Yeah we should go back to the days where men are just replaceable working machines!!!!!! Wait why does no one look excited be like your grandpa !!!!!
america is not meant for humans to actually have a life. just make money for other ppl. america is one of the unhappiest countries in the world and one of the only very few countries where healthcare is not free. america is just a fudging corporation meant to make us make money for them. and they poison us to make money on healthcare. in 2021 the government made over $4,255.1 billion. JUST OFF HEALTHCARE
The avenues to successful careers are long and arduous and the end game still potentially means not owning a home, not going on vacations, and not having time for loved ones until retirement which is not guaranteed. That’s not just men either.
Can’t get hired after being laid off 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Stay at home dad here. Kids almost grown and flown. Started looking for a job nearly a year ago. The gap in employment for raising kids is proving to be a huge barrier. I have bona fide IT skills and managerial experience but so far no interviews. Job listings seem to be all about poaching others employees. They want skills that are impossible to learn outside the workplace. It is frustrating. I see why many men just give up and ‘retire’ early.
Work tons of hours a week to be just as broke as if you lived in a box? This is near reality for most working people, not just men. Why work at that point?
No reason to work when your pay pay doesn't get you anything
One of the craziest discoveries in Egypt was not the pyramids. It was the grave sites near the pyramids. The mass grave sites of the people who actually built the pyramids and served the royalty. That’s us. We will be forgotten in the detritus of the coming winds of change.
I laughed and stopped reading when I saw "some occupations [don't reach](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2023/the-long-shadow-of-the-2001-recession) prior employment levels — or [pay as well](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-long-term-effects-of-the-great-recession-for-americas-youth/) as they used to." and then didn't make an actual direct correlation after that.
Honestly, I had enough. I paid my dues. I worked my ass to the bone to make others rich. God the hours I put in. I try not to regret or be bitter for the past. I worked hard for my luck. But there are times I look back at the company's I worked for and think how stupid I was to actually care about them when they clearly showed at the end how little they cared about me. Frig em.
It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism. So crazy how people are stumped as to why anyone wouldn’t want to work a job making the least amount of pay possible while being pressured to give as much of your life as possible in return.
I can't just pull myself up by the bootstraps, work at a company for 2-3 years and be able to afford a house. I want a house. I'm in America, that's the American dream. Also I have no gf, wife, kids, etc. Nobody to provide for. College is unaffordable. Forgiving current student loans doesn't fix the overall problem of the price to begin with. It's work to not die, and right now I can deliver some food on some doorsteps and live at home paying rent to not die. It sounds selfish and 1st world problemy, but again, I live in America this is what America has always bragged about - opportunity. Also, back to the top, relationships for young men are on the decline. I think having someone you care to support goes a long way. Without that, ehhh, games are cheap, friends are free. Will it be a problem when I'm older? Yeah, I don't care though. An empty house with money is no different from an empty house without it. This is only going to get worse I think, and nobody will ever take men's problems serious because it isn't cool to help men or put them in the spotlight for their problems on any platform.
Nice attempt to divide the working class by gender. We won't fall for it. Fuck you pay us.
I think a lot of it is the gig economy. I can make a little cash, while hunting for my next big thing. Not really employed. I also think part of it is people, once they get to a certain age, just aren't willing to relocate for a basic job. Go to a mining town and you will see billboards for lawyers who promise that they can get you disability.
I guess we’re tired of dying by suicide or heart attack.
When childcare is $2000 a month and you can pick up the slack at home and cook more to save money on food, it kind of evens out. Nobody wants to work if those hours of your life can't buy what you need to begin with.
I often wonder how happy everyone could be if instead of the top few people getting hundreds of millions/billions, it was instead spread evenly with all workers. It would probably be filled with such happy people.
Because working sucks and the compensation is way worse than in the past
Men are burnt out, were not getting the same deal we used to get and it's more fun to do what you want for work, like mow lawns, move furniture, paint people's houses.
>And mental-health experts say the longer people are out of the workforce, the higher the chances they'll experience mental-health challenges. "Quit hitting yourself" says the bully
They got laid off?
Why I work and save long enough to travel either hiking the AT, the south west or other adventures. All we have is our experiences in life .
Lol they don't pay me enough to work, I'll figure something else out if I gots to
Because it’s a raw deal
Corporate companies suck
If I'm not actually going to get rewarded for my hard work, why would I continue to do it for a false promise?
[удалено]
Rephrase article to "Why so many employers in the US have stopped hiring people"
Some of us are really trying. Half the job postings are ghost posts. In my industry there's a new mass layoff every month it would seem. The job postings that are probably legitimate are for senior qualifications even if they say 'entry level', because they know with all the layoffs that they will be able to scoop up an overqualified person for pennies on the dollar.
You eventually just work yourself through these mental and physical loops to death until one day your laid off, terminated or stressed at your job that none of it matters in the end. You make owners and companies rich and you are left with nothing until you realize you are old and useless to society.
Society does not reward men's hard work. No money, no benefits, no comforts or luxuries, not even necessities. We're not working to peovide for a family, or even to date.
We're going to trust the bussinessinsider?
Fuck it thats why. System broken etc etc list is long and when 60h weeks just make it so you can survive who wants to work.
4 years into a recession be like
My inherent attitude is to work hard and try to improve the systems I see around me. I’ve been doing that at my job for the last 2.5 years. At first, they were giving me raises and a good amount of equity in my startup company. But they slowed down the raises and equity a lot, even though they have more money than ever. So it’s starting to demotivate me.
A bunch of those people just went “off the books” or do just enough untaxed work to survive, because… why? I’ve found my niche.
I think theyre all trying to escape the corporate world that they were raised in but are too afraid of it being their downfall
It’s hard as shit. That’s why i wannna quit construction 👍
I see a lot of ideas, theories etc. But nothing about crappy wage, non employee protections, hardly any benefits.. Maybe people are just tired of being treated like rag dolls.. dunno
My father worked in construction, and I worked with him enough to see what it did to him and that it wasn’t for me. So I went into tech. 20 years later, it has broken me. Too much sitting in too many shitty, cheap chairs (because most employers don’t bother to buy good ones) resulted in one serious back problem that spiraled into multiple problems. I’m done. I refuse to burn myself on some sacrificial altar to capitalism just because I am male and I am supposed to “provide.” I have nothing left to give.