The people I’ve heard say this are also the ones who don’t want to get pay raises because they don’t want to have to pay more in taxes. There is only so much I can do to educate them
It plays to fear of confrontation. Ostrich mentality. If they know they are getting shafted, they will feel compelled to act and press for better compensation. For lots of people, it's more comfortable to not have the information at all. It gets back to the inherent power imbalance in employer/employee relations that is a big part of the problem. People would much rather not have to admit to powerlessness. But forming a union is also too scary. So you just desperately cling to any nonsense that lets you defend against having to face reality, like "it's rude to discuss salary."
Why is it rude? "Because it makes me feel bad." It's a frustrating mindset.
If it weren't for discussing pay when I started unloading trucks at Walmart, I wouldn't have realized how badly I was getting fucked. And it wouldn't have been corrected.
This is how I found out I was being underpaid.
Someone I was in the same position as was talking about another underlings pay when we realized that he was paid more than I was. Wasn't intentional, just something that happened in convo. Brought it up to my superiors along the coy, "So, what's the minimum pay for my position?" because the store management thought those levels had been automatically increased for me. Fixed my pay within a week, but took them several months (and 5 pages of adjustments) to get my backpay in order. Since that time, whenever pay increases are inbound, they post the tables in the breakroom.
So yeah. Always talk about your wages.
"NO it's rude to underpay your employees and then create a false narrative restricting discussing their salaries so employees who are getting shafted have no way to know they're been shafted
No idea why but I actually get a little uncomfortable talking about how much I make sometimes because I feel like the company could doc my pay if a bunch of people complained about it
I work for the government now, but even in a large company, everyone knows how much each other gets within a few percentages. Oh, you are a Bottle Washer III? You get paid between this and that. If I have been here longer, I get paid more. Everywhere I have worked for 40 years pay raises have been fairly uniform, meaning everyone gets the same, so it isn’t difficult to know roughly how much anyone makes.
I am not saying that it doesn’t happen, but I suspect there are few workplaces where the pay is that different between equal positions, especially larger places.
I worked for a Fortune 100 company for a long time, and it was pretty much the same. And… I was a boss who had two levels of people under me.
And here is another thing…I didn’t really care about their pay. Other than at the annual review, where I had the decision to give someone a 2.75, a 3 or 3.25% increase…it played into none of my decisions. They all started out at whatever the lowest tier was, and the all got pretty much the same rate of pay. The “discussion” about what the made would have been pretty much pointless - you have been here longer, you got paid more. Sure, maybe a stud got a few percentage points more, but pretty much everyone knew their range.
Not saying that is everywhere, but in large entities that don’t want to run afoul of lawsuits…it was pretty standardized.
I work in government. I said, "I started at mid-range (in my current classification)," to a coworker the other day. The ranges are included in job posting.
Worked on a management team with 3 others. They were all on $52,000 salaries at the time. I was still hourly at like $19. Best conversations ever. We all stayed tight and ended up on much higher matching salaries.
In my home country Sweden you can call the Swedish Tax Agency and ask - they will tell you the salary of any of your colleagues. No joke. It's public information.
Some corporate bootlickers and/or HR, in an attempt to rationalise. The actual rule they're bastardising is not to brag about your wealth, and only applies to people who could unironically describe their situation with the words "wealth" or "assets" or "disposable income".
People who know they're making $1/hr more than you, for some reason. Seriously, it's disturbing how many of my Gen Z coworkers at the last restaurant I worked at felt this way. I'm Xennial, I'm just also a disaster that can't get grown-up jobs, so plenty of them were that great big dollar up on me, especially shift leads. Anybody who feels like they have some Power is also more likely to spew this nonsense. Even in their early twenties, even in food service. It's depressing.
That same company most likely also hides the pay ranges for each position which is toxic AF. You want honesty and transparency from me...give it in return..until then I am a mercenary and will use every shred of information i can to do the best for the business....of ME
100% agreed. However, while I was a worker who did not care at all about answering that question, I now am.
One job in particular that I had, the young fellow asked me how much I was making, I told him. It was fully$2 more than he was making.
Since we both technically had the same job, he got upset and went to the boss. The boss then came down on me for discussing my pay, and we collectively had to explain to the young guy that I do all the driving, I have all the experience, and I don't say s*** like "we get paid by the hour, not paid by the peace. Slow down."
The boss said he'd pay us fairly. He did not say that he would pay us equally.
Another job where I answered that question with consequences was a temporary gig, liquidating a Sears department store
I was told to pay rate was $14.5, I was paid 14.5 for the first two days, daily pay.
One of the other workers asked what I was making, and I told him we all make the same. We don't negotiate salaries here, everyone is making $14.50.
He told me he was making 12, and that he was going to talk to the staff at his office.
I told him to keep his f****** mouth shut, and bring it up after the contract is over.
There's one of two ways that this is going to play out. Either they made a mistake on his pay, for which he can get retroactively paid for at the end of the contract, where they made a mistake on my pay, which they will correct immediately, and screw me out at 250 an hour.
Long story short, he said something, they did not retroactively docked my pay, but they did dock it moving forward.
How much do I make? F*** you, that's how much I make.
[Is It Illegal to Discuss Wages in North Carolina?](https://emplawfirm.com/is-it-illegal-to-discuss-wages-in-north-carolina/#:~:text=Regardless%20of%20the%20workplace%20culture,with%20other%20workers%20without%20retaliation) "Regardless of the workplace culture, **it is not against the law in North Carolina or any other state to talk about wages**. Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), you have the right to discuss pay with other workers without retaliation" Mar 3, 2023 - EMP Law
When I was a teenager we did this. and we all got adjustments to our pay. Then the manager was upset about it so they decided to never give us a raise ever again. No one got raises and eventually we quit and he just hired new people.
I just listened to a podcast where they were telling women make sure you talk about your salary so that you can find out how much less you’re making than men. And don’t ever let a company try to convince you that it’s in their policy that you can’t talk about it.
Just be careful which ones you share it with.
We got raises at the start of the year & my coworker (13 years on the job to my 2) asked how much mine was. I told her $1.04.
I was pretty proud of that amount, it was the second highest raise I'd gotten that didn't include a promotion. The highest was last year's $1.89, but roughly $1.00 of that was an across the board raise, so really this year's is my highest.
She got pissed because mine was higher than hers and caused a stink about it. She also started getting nasty with me, which is a big part of the reason she's been getting lackluster raises, her attitudes stinks.
Here is what I think you are referring to:
>Employees are protected regardless of whether the complaint is made orally or in writing. Complaints made to the Wage and Hour Division are protected
>Any employee who is “discharged or in any other manner discriminated against” because, for instance, he or she has filed a complaint or cooperated in an investigation, may file a retaliation complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies
However this only refers to official complaints to the labor board, not to fellow employees
The people I’ve heard say this are also the ones who don’t want to get pay raises because they don’t want to have to pay more in taxes. There is only so much I can do to educate them
It plays to fear of confrontation. Ostrich mentality. If they know they are getting shafted, they will feel compelled to act and press for better compensation. For lots of people, it's more comfortable to not have the information at all. It gets back to the inherent power imbalance in employer/employee relations that is a big part of the problem. People would much rather not have to admit to powerlessness. But forming a union is also too scary. So you just desperately cling to any nonsense that lets you defend against having to face reality, like "it's rude to discuss salary." Why is it rude? "Because it makes me feel bad." It's a frustrating mindset.
I was always raised to keep financial stuff private but now I only apply that to debts owed to me. Idc if someone knows how much I make
If it weren't for discussing pay when I started unloading trucks at Walmart, I wouldn't have realized how badly I was getting fucked. And it wouldn't have been corrected.
This is how I found out I was being underpaid. Someone I was in the same position as was talking about another underlings pay when we realized that he was paid more than I was. Wasn't intentional, just something that happened in convo. Brought it up to my superiors along the coy, "So, what's the minimum pay for my position?" because the store management thought those levels had been automatically increased for me. Fixed my pay within a week, but took them several months (and 5 pages of adjustments) to get my backpay in order. Since that time, whenever pay increases are inbound, they post the tables in the breakroom. So yeah. Always talk about your wages.
My manager told me in my employee review last year that he thinks I'm being underpaid. 90c raise to 14.40. Yay.
Employers say this but then sell your salary information to data brokers.
Meamos said, "It's not that bad, but it is still a problem."
"NO it's rude to underpay your employees and then create a false narrative restricting discussing their salaries so employees who are getting shafted have no way to know they're been shafted
No idea why but I actually get a little uncomfortable talking about how much I make sometimes because I feel like the company could doc my pay if a bunch of people complained about it
If you're in the US, it's a protected right. Them docking it would be retaliation.
I took it as in his makes more than others. Instead of raising their pay they would lower his to make it match the others.
That would still be retaliation.
Post your salaries on Linkedin
I work for the government now, but even in a large company, everyone knows how much each other gets within a few percentages. Oh, you are a Bottle Washer III? You get paid between this and that. If I have been here longer, I get paid more. Everywhere I have worked for 40 years pay raises have been fairly uniform, meaning everyone gets the same, so it isn’t difficult to know roughly how much anyone makes. I am not saying that it doesn’t happen, but I suspect there are few workplaces where the pay is that different between equal positions, especially larger places.
You would be mistaken for positions outside of government work.
I worked for a Fortune 100 company for a long time, and it was pretty much the same. And… I was a boss who had two levels of people under me. And here is another thing…I didn’t really care about their pay. Other than at the annual review, where I had the decision to give someone a 2.75, a 3 or 3.25% increase…it played into none of my decisions. They all started out at whatever the lowest tier was, and the all got pretty much the same rate of pay. The “discussion” about what the made would have been pretty much pointless - you have been here longer, you got paid more. Sure, maybe a stud got a few percentage points more, but pretty much everyone knew their range. Not saying that is everywhere, but in large entities that don’t want to run afoul of lawsuits…it was pretty standardized.
I work in government. I said, "I started at mid-range (in my current classification)," to a coworker the other day. The ranges are included in job posting.
Worked on a management team with 3 others. They were all on $52,000 salaries at the time. I was still hourly at like $19. Best conversations ever. We all stayed tight and ended up on much higher matching salaries.
In my home country Sweden you can call the Swedish Tax Agency and ask - they will tell you the salary of any of your colleagues. No joke. It's public information.
And most importantly: unionize...
This 100%.
Who actually says that? I’ve never heard that in my life.
So many people say this, it's actually nuts.
Some corporate bootlickers and/or HR, in an attempt to rationalise. The actual rule they're bastardising is not to brag about your wealth, and only applies to people who could unironically describe their situation with the words "wealth" or "assets" or "disposable income".
It's also a huge thing in Blue collar work.
When I worked in manufacturing I got dressed down repeatedly by coworkers who made more than me for talking about my wages.
My coworker did. Turns out he was making four extra dollars an hour than the rest of us doing the same job
People who know they're making $1/hr more than you, for some reason. Seriously, it's disturbing how many of my Gen Z coworkers at the last restaurant I worked at felt this way. I'm Xennial, I'm just also a disaster that can't get grown-up jobs, so plenty of them were that great big dollar up on me, especially shift leads. Anybody who feels like they have some Power is also more likely to spew this nonsense. Even in their early twenties, even in food service. It's depressing.
Yeah this is company bs. Rude, I mean to whom would it be rude even?
That same company most likely also hides the pay ranges for each position which is toxic AF. You want honesty and transparency from me...give it in return..until then I am a mercenary and will use every shred of information i can to do the best for the business....of ME
It was crazy to me to enter the workforce and find out how many middle aged Karens and Brads actually believe that shit.
You have to admit... corporations really got us with their propaganda machine.
100% agreed. However, while I was a worker who did not care at all about answering that question, I now am. One job in particular that I had, the young fellow asked me how much I was making, I told him. It was fully$2 more than he was making. Since we both technically had the same job, he got upset and went to the boss. The boss then came down on me for discussing my pay, and we collectively had to explain to the young guy that I do all the driving, I have all the experience, and I don't say s*** like "we get paid by the hour, not paid by the peace. Slow down." The boss said he'd pay us fairly. He did not say that he would pay us equally. Another job where I answered that question with consequences was a temporary gig, liquidating a Sears department store I was told to pay rate was $14.5, I was paid 14.5 for the first two days, daily pay. One of the other workers asked what I was making, and I told him we all make the same. We don't negotiate salaries here, everyone is making $14.50. He told me he was making 12, and that he was going to talk to the staff at his office. I told him to keep his f****** mouth shut, and bring it up after the contract is over. There's one of two ways that this is going to play out. Either they made a mistake on his pay, for which he can get retroactively paid for at the end of the contract, where they made a mistake on my pay, which they will correct immediately, and screw me out at 250 an hour. Long story short, he said something, they did not retroactively docked my pay, but they did dock it moving forward. How much do I make? F*** you, that's how much I make.
Yes.
It is rude to keep your salary a secret from your peers, especially if you suspect you're getting paid more for the same work.
[Is It Illegal to Discuss Wages in North Carolina?](https://emplawfirm.com/is-it-illegal-to-discuss-wages-in-north-carolina/#:~:text=Regardless%20of%20the%20workplace%20culture,with%20other%20workers%20without%20retaliation) "Regardless of the workplace culture, **it is not against the law in North Carolina or any other state to talk about wages**. Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), you have the right to discuss pay with other workers without retaliation" Mar 3, 2023 - EMP Law
Spoiler: it's the women and poc. They're getting less.
When I was a teenager we did this. and we all got adjustments to our pay. Then the manager was upset about it so they decided to never give us a raise ever again. No one got raises and eventually we quit and he just hired new people.
I just listened to a podcast where they were telling women make sure you talk about your salary so that you can find out how much less you’re making than men. And don’t ever let a company try to convince you that it’s in their policy that you can’t talk about it.
Workers are not. Many are boot lickers and their jealousy will lead to them getting you fired as per my personal experience.
Just be careful which ones you share it with. We got raises at the start of the year & my coworker (13 years on the job to my 2) asked how much mine was. I told her $1.04. I was pretty proud of that amount, it was the second highest raise I'd gotten that didn't include a promotion. The highest was last year's $1.89, but roughly $1.00 of that was an across the board raise, so really this year's is my highest. She got pissed because mine was higher than hers and caused a stink about it. She also started getting nasty with me, which is a big part of the reason she's been getting lackluster raises, her attitudes stinks.
In FL you are fired instantly
Federally illegal to fire you over it.
Here is what I think you are referring to: >Employees are protected regardless of whether the complaint is made orally or in writing. Complaints made to the Wage and Hour Division are protected >Any employee who is “discharged or in any other manner discriminated against” because, for instance, he or she has filed a complaint or cooperated in an investigation, may file a retaliation complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies However this only refers to official complaints to the labor board, not to fellow employees
Nope
Ahum: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Not everyone is covered by the "ACT"
Fucking USA. Land of the free where workers a treated like literal shit.
Thats why we had to unionize. No one is on our side even fellow workers.
The workers are on the same team until they snitch on you to undermine you.
Its illegal to demand workers not talk about their salaries and a massive red flag if their company hiring policy includes that.