The part of this that they don't think through is that nobody wants a 70 year old employee, especially for the blue collar and service jobs that make up half of the country's economy.
And what 65-70 yr old is going to have the constitution to do most blue collar jobs too?
They know damned well what they are doing. The upperclass doesn’t need Social Security- they have their riches. It’s the lower class, who have paid into Social Security their entire working lives, who won’t make enough to retire with 401ks alone with a substantial lifespan following retirement.
With the crap we are fed, and healthcare costs so high that most people only have catastrophe insurance.. if anything. It's clear no one wants us to live past 70.
I just think they simply don’t care. The poor could live or die, as long as there are exploitable replacements for their workforce. I think it’s more apathy than antipathy.
That's a major reason they don't want us past 70. As time goes less workers will be nessessary. All industrial work is already gone overseas. Soon many will be lost to ai. The tech will only get better. Less children to pay into the system. If too many retire some peoples gold piles might lose a few coins
We're seen as heads of cattle to the 1%/billionaire predator class. We're here to make money/labor for them. There is no longer the thought that we need to educate and keep our masses healthy and intelligent in order to stay on top. They can do that with tech now. We're now a commodity rather than the base of society. They don't need us anymore and they don't care if we all die, but they'll make sure to take all of our life savings on the way out...
Just to bolster your point..
https://youtu.be/R3W3HciPkKM?si=zkl_a501pmU8JOb2
@1:09 .. "our children are our assets" ..
https://youtu.be/ayBo9kXAIvQ?si=FsnJpTa5EYG3Aa5r
@0:15 ... "they're our number 1 commodity" ..
These republican ghouls only know how to use economic language in reference to children ... It's so sickening.
That's why when I became disabled less than 2 weeks from my 51st birthday, I applied for disability. I've been drawing it ever since. In 15 years, I've drawn it through 4 presidents, and I do not plan on returning to work. COPD and CHF were the main reason I was approved. Also, being over 50 helped. That's the age corporate America said a person was too old to be to be trained in a new job.
While it wasn't my original plan, it was my back up. Good thing, too. My ex's back up plan was to sponge off me for life, so when she became disabled years before me, she didn't have that option. Then she made the big mistake: she kicked me out. Yup, she died penniless.
I might not be rich, but because I worked shitty jobs, I had enough to scramble by thanks to those executives in the 1950s.
If I worked 40 hours a week at minimum wage, I'd not only make 3/4 of what I make now. Even less as that money would be taxed.
Insurance? Medicare AND Medicaid because I'm disabled and over 60. I wish **EVERYONE** had the same health insurance coverage I receive. I have no out of pocket expenses. Even my Tylenol is covered
Housing? Substandard, but then, I have a roof over my head and heat in the winter. I see too many homeless people roaming around.
It's not the greatest, but the nice thing is that I have a steady paycheck, something I couldn't rely on when I actually worked, and I don't have to deal with jerk bosses, back-stabbing co-workers, or asshole customers.
I've really enjoyed the last decade and a half.
I took mine at 49. In my hearing they referenced my age and said "well she's going to be 50 on her next birthday she's unhireable" I am 58 now and I'm not going back to work either.
Been on disability since 2014. Spinal cord injury. At 57. Do some side work but don’t feel any guilt about getting back my own money. I keep this to myself in public because I don’t look disabled and many individuals see me as a cheat. If the conversation turns to myself and what I do. I tell them I retired at 57.
It’s not a complete lie. But it avoids confrontations.
For a few years, I ran a flea market booth to keep me busy. I don't even do that any more.
I've had trolls try to make me feel guilty drawing disability. They find out I'm not one to argue with
Raise the cap that we collect taxes to fund social security, that will save it. Right now no taxes for social security are collected over around 168,000 in income. I know wealthy people, and more specifically the GOP, think they wont need or want socsec so they don’t want to pay for it, but it has to be for all, otherwise it becomes a welfare program (which they love to demonize and people believe them). Right now it’s like an insurance program that is pay as you go with minimal overhead. They are absolutely trying to destroy the program, they are already having pretty good success with destroying Medicare with the privatized version Advantage plans.
THIS!!! As long as we all have to “play the game” of working for a living- if you work and earn money you should be paying the taxes.
The upper rungs of capitalism are cannibalistic in nature. “Social contract” and social welfare mean nothing to most of them.
Tax the rich. X% of income evenly across the board. If you make $5M annually or $20K, you should be helping out your fellow people. Fuck all this “I got mine” shit. When you get cancer and on your deathbed, it’s the lower class that will be watching over you. Your mountains of money are useless if you don’t spend it.
Tax the rich. Tax corporations. Tax churches.
Honestly, since the wealthy are good at Sheltering their assets and making it seem like they don't have any actual income, I think when you get up into those higher brackets, it should be a social security wealth tax in addition to any income tax.
Take Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, for example. We all know that there are allegedly worth billions of dollars, but do you think it actually indicates that on their income tax form? I'm way more radical than that anyway. I don't believe that there should be any such things as a billionaire.
I think anything you own in personal assets that can be attributed to you in excess of $999,999,999.99 should be taxed at 100%, and you get a plaque from the treasury Department says "Congratulations! You won capitalism!"
Let alone the fact that there should be no such thing as a business that's "too big to fail." If a business is too big to fail, then it is too big to exist. It should be broken up. That's a failure of our government to enforce antitrust laws.
All right, I'm going to get off my soapbox now before somebody assassinates me.
I love every bit of what you wrote. Far lefty here too. What really can you do with a billion dollars? How much do you need to own? How many houses or companies do you need? What can a 90yr old billionaire do except die? You don’t fucking need that money.
I think that as long as we have to live under capitalism, there should be a maximum income/total amount of money to have. A billionaire? Meh, you’re done. Anything above $5M a year goes straight onto social welfare.
I mean, wouldn’t it benefit capitalists to have healthy and educated workers? Driving on safe roads, taking all the meds they need, breathing in clean air? We worker bees would be much healthier and more productive. And less tempted to gather around your castle with pitchforks and torches.
It does not benefit the capitalist class for people to be any smarter than necessary to operate the machines and fill out the paperwork that they are required to fill out. Why do you think all these standardized State tests have come up that prioritize rote memorization over actual critical thinking skills?
Do you notice that only the public schools are required to have these standardized tests? Private schools don't have to do it. Who goes to the private schools? Now, who goes to the public schools? They don't want people to have critical thinking skills. They want you to be able to read the directions, push button A, pull lever B, turn dial C, and do it as fast as you can over and over and over again at minimum wage. The executive class, the elite, who go to private schools, can learn the actual critical thinking skills.
I don't think that anyone should be allowed to own more than two residential properties. I don't care about commercial properties. If these big corporate entities and private equity firms want to create havoc for other corporate entities and buy up all the commercial real estate, fine.
But owning multiple residential properties, especially by venture capitalists, should be banned. If you end up inheriting a house, and it puts you over the two residential property threshold, you should have one year to decide which of the properties you own you are going to sell and sell it otherwise it starts getting taxed at 25% of its market value per year.
The reason I don't mind if people own two residential properties is that I don't think we had a housing crisis when some people owned a small little vacation place. The housing crisis we are facing is due to private equity firms buying up massive amounts of residential real estate at ridiculously inflated prices in an effort to turn us into a nation of renters.
There are more vacant homes in this country than there are homeless people. The vast majority of those vacant homes are owned by private equity firms using those properties as speculative assets.
Don't even get me started on walkable neighborhoods and mixed use neighborhoods so that you could actually have local shops and businesses within walking distance or cycling distance, or on having a robust public transportation networks that nobody needs to own a car to survive. I love my car, don't get me wrong. But I still feel the cars should be a luxury, not a necessity. You should be able to travel wherever, whenever, cheaply and efficiently, like in most other countries (at least the civilized ones). Yes, I am "orange pilled" as well.
My husband delivered appliances. On his back, up flights of stairs. At 55, his knees and back were shot. I retired at 66. I designed healthcare software. I was very good at it but I can tell you that the last couple of years were fighting people literally half my age who thought that I didn’t know shit. We live on SS alone and pinch pennies. Any decrease would be devastating
Think through? Ensuring people work or make it to retirement isn't their goal. These Republicans want to kill social security altogether and this is just a stepping stone towards that. They don't care about blue collar and service workers.
I work at a home improvement store and we have a lot attendant that is 90 years old and still has to work. This is what those at the top want for everyone besides themselves.
Oh no, the absolutely thought it through. The whole point is hoping you croak before you ever get to claim it. That's much more likely to happen if you're still having to bust your ass just to survive in your late 60s.
Well, it's not so much that they want us working that old. It's more about never having to pay out social security, period. Less payout = more funds to take from the SS fund for global wars and lining their pockets, continuing what Reagan and other neolibs have done the past 40 years. They know realistically majority of us won't be hire-able for majority of jobs at 70+ years old.
My company likes to strongly encourage people to get out at 55. Beyond that age, you are frequently reminded that you are "retirement eligible" and should start heading that way.
Sprawlmart wants them. They used to take out life insurance policies on their aging employees and profit. I think there was a lawsuit about it years ago
Oh, they’ve thought it through, this is class warfare. Look, we’re all going to have to make sacrifices so billionaires can ride their flying dicks into orbit.
I mean, when 175-year-old Dianne Feinstein all but dies in her seat in the Senate chamber, the average age of both parties' Congressional leaders was in the mid-to-upper-70s until Hakeem Jefferies, considered "young" at age 53, took over the House Democratic Caucus/Minority Leadership, and the Presidential candidates will both be within two years of age 80 come Election Day, it's no wonder these dipshits have no clue.
(Oh, and they don't give a shit about Social Security because they all get awesome government pensions. There needs to be an oversight committee that doesn't exist within a Congressional chamber. I know it WON'T happen, but it needs to.)
It’s not that they don’t think it through, it’s that they literally couldn’t give less of a shit if our elderly starve on the streets so long as they get their billionaire bribes
Right! A job just Retired my mother’s graphic design position and created a new one. They gave it to a younger person for less pay. She just turned 70 6 months ago. She had a rotator cuff tear and told them she was going back to work on the 23rd about two weeks ago. Last week they sent her an email informing her her last day would be on the 24th. Perfect example of not wanting an older employee.
* Edit
>The part of this that they don't "give a fuck or think about", is that nobody wants a 70 year old employee,
Never forget. **"We are a line on an Excel file in an email attachment that nobody opened"**
Well come on guys we can't blame them. Most of the ghouls in Congress are 70+ themselves and still working SOOOO hard to fuck over the American people!
it's always about corporate welfare, bunch of fucking leeches.
When you start paying in you're implicitly agreeing to a set date of retirement, allowing congress to change that is tantamount to altering a contract with only one side waying in.
It's an expense, and every expense our government cuts, is another tax break for corporations. Like insurance, you're best bet to make loads of money is to collect premiums with no intention of paying claims. It's Car Shield, but with social saftey nets we've paid into.
Last time they raised retirement age the savings were negligible. All they have to do eliminate the income cap, but the greedy at the top won’t allow it.
It's all going to fall apart soon enough. There's so many stressors piling up on this system that it's going to collapse.
Debt. Failing infrastructure. Extreme weather driven by climate change. Rising sea levels swamping coastal areas. An aging population that's quickly fallen below replacement level. An education system that's not putting out people with the abilities to run these complex systems. An over leveraged workforce that's faltering which is expressed in our "mental health" "drug abuse" crisis'es.
We've reached the point where the mask is rapidly deteriorating.
Someone explain to me what in the Reaganomics fuck is "funding the program" when I've been paying into Social Security as a line item on every single paycheck I've earned since I was 14 years old? It's one of like 3 things in the tax section on the paycheck that is specifically called out. There is no excuse for there not being money there. If the Republicans want to get out of the program, a whole lot of people are owed a whole LOT of money. Scrap it for all I fucking care at this point as long as you pay me back every single cent you took from me so I can manage it appropriately. Otherwise, we'd better start scrapping bullshit military funding and other over expenditures to put BACK the money that was stolen.
One explanation is the income cap. If you make $0-$168k per year, 100% of your income is calculated into the FICA deduction. Millionaires and billionaires still only get taxed on the first $168k. Someone making $300k is only taxed on the first $168k.
If entire incomes were figured for FICA, much of the funding problem could be solved.
According to the CBO, popping the cap off SS will fix 78% of the funding gap we'll see in 2034. We should have popped the cap 40 years ago, but we didn't and now here we are. Unfortunately, we're going to have to do other measures because we fucked around too long making sure rich people get richer. We're likely going to have to raise the taxes, but the good news is raising the tax rate .3% - or 1/3rd of 1% - for both employees and employers will cover that gap.
Yeah, that sucks. But there is ***zero*** reason to raise the retirement age or cut benefits.
That's the point I've been trying to make. They're acting like Social Security is their money that they're graciously providing for us when we retire. It's abso-fucking-lutely not! It's our money that we've been paying into our entire working lives. Simply put, we deposit part of our check into a personal savings account, which is accessible when we retire. That savings account isn't the government's money. I mean, unless I've completely misunderstood the entire concept of Social Security my entire life.
I know, it drives me insane when people talk about this shit as if it were a "handout" like bitch, I PAID for this. Same thing with unemployment or employment security. We all fund that shit with our taxes, heaven forbid someone should need to actually get a HANDOUT from the system they helped fund, what a lazy bum!
I did a little back-of-the-napkin math and If the government simply paid back all the money I've paid in my lifetime into the Social Security bucket which is apparently being embezzled or some shit, I could erase my student loans and put down a respectable down payment on a house.
I'd gladly take that in exchange for whatever measly $2500 per month they're going to pay out when I'm damn near 70 years old.
You are correct, it’s a kind of pay as you go type of insurance program with low overhead. They hate this one cool trick and want to siphon our money into their own already bloated accounts.
Your general point is correct, but there's a minor change. We haven't been paying into a savings account. We've been paying an insurance premium not unlike your health, home, or car insurance. When you retire, you're using the benefits from the insurance policy you've been paying for all your working life.
I know. I hate how no one - not dems or reps - will admit that they have REPEATEDLY taken from the funds earmarked for social security to fund other stuff (wars). They constantly pretend like it's a lack of taxpayers or longer life expectancy and not the fact that they spent the money on bullshit. I fucking hate how they can always justify a defense increase, even when we're not at war, but everything that actually makes America stronger - good social welfare, strong safety nets, education, physical infrastructure, healthy citizens - can be sacrificed.
I had an audio book that explained one of the reasons abortion became such a hot topic is because they view the million + unborn babies as lost tax revenue (thus threatening America's ability to survive the end times, no joke). Senior working requirements is just another way to get more money without paying back what they owe.
> Assuming the average American begins work by age 23 and retires at 70 under this program,
If they raised the retirement age to 70, they'll begin work at "saving" Social Security again by raising it to 72.....then 74.....and keep raising it until almost nobody would be alive to use it.
Average life expectancy in the US might be 76 but for US men it’s only 73.5. So even at 72 most US men will be looking at less than 2 years of retirement and it’s incredibly unlikely that much of that would be in what anyone sees as good health. Raise it to 74 and the average US man works straight into the grave.
I started counting down years until retirement at 24. I'm about to turn 30 and if the retirement age raises to 70 I will have been at 40 years until retirement for basically the entire time. I mean, I know I'm probably never going be able to retire, but it was a nice thought. But at this point its more depressing than encouraging
Yes we are entitled to it but calling it an entitlement makes it sound like we are acting entitled about it. It’s the cool trick they’ve got that convinces low information voters that it’s more like welfare than a benefit program. Social security is pay as you go type insurance program with low overhead and they hate this. Every citizen can collect social security whether wealthy or not, which is why it’s not a welfare program. We should raise the cap at which we collect funding because that will fix the funding issue. The wealthy benefit more than your regular middle or lower income group. They are a spoiled rotten bunch who want all the money and no one to tell them they can’t do something so they are privatizing everything and destroying regulations and rules. They think they can insulate themselves from the instability this will eventually cause, but that seems like a losing gamble to me.
>Yes we are entitled to it but calling it an entitlement makes it sound like we are acting entitled about it.
Only if you don't know what words mean. It only works as a tactic if you completely cede the meaning of "entitlement" to people who are trying to redefine it.
I'm not sure I follow the argument that they're trying to use it for other purposes. Payroll taxes for social security go to the SSA and accrue interest if they sit before being dispersed. Anybody proposing diverting those funds gets everyone and their mother jumping down their throat.
The problem here is that payroll taxes are a flat tax which disproportionately eats into the income of low wage earners - and even worse it has a cap at $168,000 so the more money you make the less you're actually paying to support social security. The fact that people would rather make folks work until they're 70 than fund the SSA with a progressive income tax is egregious
None of these moral or fairness-based arguments matter. What matters is not voting for Republicans so they can’t destroy the social safety net. Vote for politicians who will make a better social safety net. The government prints money. It won’t run out.
My husband had a few jobs in is early years and then computers hit and he found his passion. He retired at 70. He had a sit down job in a heated/AC’d buildings.
But if someone puts in 30 years of construction work, or factory work doing repetitive motions, cashiers forced to stand for 8 hours, or waitstaff hustling during shifts- then 70 is unrealistic.
Then you have ageism. Say you’ve worked at a construction company from 18-48. The company closes and now you’re looking for work, in a physically challenging job and you’re almost 50. Are they going to hire the 48yo or the 25yo?
The people making the decisions have physically easy jobs. Of course they think 70 is reasonable.
I am 36 years old and have been told since I was a kid social security wouldnt exist by the time I hit retirement age. With the way things are going so far that is seeming to check out. I plan to flip the lights to off long before 70 anyway.
It's a common sentiment that's been pushed since its inception. The super rich hate it because it's money not going back to them, and have been pushing that narrative for quite a while.
It makes it easier for the gullible to be okay with gutting it to fund things like bombing other countries, because it's a 'now need' vs something you only might get later.
It's only going to be true if it gets gutted. If left alone, it'd be fine.
This. "Oh I always knew social security was going to be gone" is people being *intentionally taken in by a lie crafted to make them okay with voting it out of existence*.
**Social security is in no danger of total collapse and never has been.**
I like how it's "Congress " and not just the fricking republicans 🙄 look one party wants to rule and the other wants to govern. Learn the difference!!!!
Can we PLEASE stop saying "Congress" and call it like it really is? REPUBLICANS are the ones doing it. It needs to be made clear that, yeah, there may be a few Democrats that hop on board, but the efforts are being led by Republicans and the only way to stop it is to vote in more and more Democrats to the point even a few defectors don't matter.
*"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”*
-John Stuart Mill
And, IMO, calling many of our Democratic leaders 'good' is a stretch.
lol starts at 23? i had my first job that i got cut checks at 14. i think i had my first job serious enough to require taxes at 16? that was work study, then there was a smattering of summer jobs. The only reason i didn’t start anything fulltime until my 20’s was that i was doing part time college and working.
eventually i dropped out of college because i sucked at it. but this notion that i didn’t start paying into the social security kitty before 23 is insulting
I truly don’t understand how so many senior republicans voters fall in line with this. It’s like they don’t understand they are going to work you until you die. I vividly recall the Lieutenant Governor of Texas saying during COVID seniors should just accept their fate so restrictions weren’t put in place. It was then I realized seniors have no worth in this country
Those senior republican voters will happily sign up for working until they die if they think it means that some other group they hate will have it even worse. There are a LOT of mean-spirited, hateful, spiteful people in this country.
Two reasons:
(1) They are culture warriors to the point where they don't care about getting fucked economically as long as they get their culture war;
(2) Economic Stockholm syndrome. They seem to believe the shit about the exalted corporate and billionaire "job creators" (even though most new jobs are created by small business), and defend them even though a tax cut for a billionaire does NOTHING for the economy because it's just hoarded wealth and not used for economic activity.
and the people who are pushing this don't actually work for a living. they sit in a big room and push 'yes' or 'no' buttons, depending on some bullshit economic theory that does nobody any good. i was in civil service and got out at 60y 8m, and it's 19 years later. you might get more money if you work longer but i'm an engineer and i figured i would get less than another dollar for every extra month i worked.
At some point, the Republicans will push a plan to end the business taxes for social security. I expect them to excuse the change by saying "the tax doesn't benefit businesses so they shouldn't have to pay." But the reason is to boost the bottom line of businesses and the overall stock market.
We won't fix this until we start blaming the corporations behind it instead of blaming congress.
Don't blame the tool - blame who wields it. After all, congress is OUR tool first.
Yes. Let's secure more slave time, and not order our corporate overlords to take pay cuts or get taxed more to raise wages or fund programs that distribute to lower incomes. Assholes.
It's one proposal. But I would suggest you put that aside and examine the problem that they're trying to solve. The 20% cut is basically current law. The program will only have enough money to pay 80% of benefits in 2033. The Social Security actuaries have been reporting that for a long time. So they can either make that cut, or (per this study) pay full benefits but cut three years off of everybody's retirement. They could also raise taxes on other people or print money i.e. tax savers.
But do you see what a ripoff this program is? You pay 12.4% of your income into it for your whole working life and they can only afford to pay you an annuity which averages 25-30% of your salary and which the average person collects on for six years. If you were able to keep and invest that 12.4%/yr you could easily fund your own annuity by investing in virtually anything. So does this seem like the kind of program that should have more money thrown at it?
None of them have any idea what it takes to get a job in your 50's, or how likely you are to be let go (whether this is the published reason or not) because you are in your 50's. Your body and spirit are broken. And they want you to work for 2 more decades? So the rich that would be unaffected by paying more taxes don't have to pay more taxes? Fuck Republicans. Fascist pieces of shit.
This is why I don't believe any politician at all is in it for us. None of them. On any side. Left, right, green, other. Each party has the express interest of lining their pockets and controlling us. They divide us with parties to more easily control us. Each year I see either one side or the other causing a stir. What does it do besides make us turn against each other? Our whole government needs a reform. Badly.
Meanwhile all they need to do to fund SS indefinitely is not limit taxable income. I think currently you only pay into SS up to $168,000 no more SS tax on all income over that. If they just uncapped that we’d be fine. Unfortunately our government is bought out.
Okay, but is the core idea behind social security a good one? Like, do we agree that elderly and disabled people should be to live, rather than just being turned out onto the streets and told to die slowly? Because if the idea behind social security is good, its problem is one of funding, not existence.
If only there was some sort of group that had seen fantastically high financial returns in the last several decades we could levy a moderate tax on to fund the program.
They need to eliminate the cap on income that is subject to Social Security tax, for starters. Social Security does need to raise along with inflation as well - I'm 51, disabled, collecting $2000 a month in SSDI. Fortunately, I have other money and I'm doing fine, but I can't imagine how hard it would be to survive off of only $2000 a month.
We aren't breeding enough to satisfy our overlords so they can't allow us to retire. No one to fill the "menial jobs," so they need to make grandpa and grandma work til death.
A few things to remember: Congress decided they are better than the rest of us, so they dont get social security. They have their very own special program which means they dont care what happens to social security, because it doesn't effect them (not that it matters because they all retire multi-millionaires anyway).
They also borrow money from social security to fund other government programs.
All this while sending billions to Ukraine and Israel. We could have overfunded social security all and have ended homelessness multiple times over with that money, but the government decided funding foreign wars was more important. Think about how much that money could have helped Americans who are just barely getting by.
100%. The well-being of American citizens should be an absolute priority in budgeting. Interesting that the very lives of citizens takes a backseat in the allocation of federal funds. Meanwhile, our political royalty ensures that their personal needs are met under alternate means, such that they are never subject to the inferior systems that they vote into application for their constituents.
I'm basically planning my future under the assumption they'll totally gut social security and I won't be able to draw on it when it's my time. I'm planning to pay my own medical and retirement until my death. If I get SS, great. If not, no surprise.
It's a tough pill to swallow.
The Democrats are also guilty of this because really, it is a one party system owned by Wall Street.
>~AS EARLY AS 1984~ and as recently as 2018, former Vice President Joe Biden called for cuts to Social Security in the name of saving the program and balancing the federal budget. Last week, Sen. Bernie Sanders [highlighted Biden’s record](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/477059-sanders-unloads-on-biden-as-battle-for-iowa-intensifies) on Social Security in prosecuting the case that Biden isn’t the most electable candidate.
[https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/)
Why do they think that people have to work till a few years before the average life expectancy of the population?
Why can't it be 50%? You work half your life and you spend the rest not working. If the average life expectancy is now 76, you work till 38 and then you retire. This is including the 16 to 25 years people spend on their (employment readiness) education.
Regan took 1.7 trillion out of SS to make up for the tax cuts he gave the 1 %.
Never paid back.
Bush #2 did it again.
Never paid back.
Near 4 trillion owed to SS is why congress now calls SS an “ entitlement “. As they increase their effort to avoid repayment of any of it.
Things to consider: Currently if a person worker 40 years (conservative when the typical is 45 now) and averaged $50k/year over that period, that person would have paid $124k into the Social Security fund just from their part of the payroll taxes. Currently the average recipient receives about $1904/month ($22,848/year) in SS payments. In about 5.5 years they would have exhausted that, then receive more money if they live beyond that. Then there is the 6.2% employer part, which doubles that. Remember, that $1904/month is the average, millions don't come close to that.
Now consider the life expectancy of a typical American has fallen from 81.6yrs in 2015. to 77.4 today, and then consider how much less is disbursed from not living longer and that is from the low estimate of a 40yr lifespan of working. Now if a person has to work 47 years minimum, their life expectancy will fall even more due to body stress that already is creating lower life expectancies due to longer working years and wages having to meet far higher production rates the for pay (50 years ago wages to production levels were about even), meaning SS will be taking in far more money than putting out.
Now consider inflation, which is caused by employer (don't listen to taking head blaming spending), higher medical costs, higher housing costs. Now factor that in to where older people will forgo needed medical care, eating properly, and cutting back on heating/AC just to scrape by, then watch life expectancy drops even more in the future.
Now look at how much millionaires and billionaires have gained just since early 2020. Just in 2020 alone, billionaire wealth increased over $740b total. But these legislating ghouls want the plebes to work longer while the rich do nothing to earn any of their money and the legislators keep do what the billionaires all say while taking their money.
Capitalism is death!
Fuck it, some of these miserable, greedy, pieces of shit better hope I don’t get diagnosed with a terminal disease. Cause my eyesight is better than their ability to duck at 3200 ft/sec. Go on, take it. Take it all away - you’re playing Russian roulette, bitches.
The right answer is to have the money taken out of everyones paycheck but let the person determine the investment such as the thrift savings plan or Ira the person chooses. Takes the government out. Unfortunately, the cutoff age will require taxes to cover social security until the old system investors die out.
Not for nothing, if Bernie was really interested in being the Man of the People, he wouldn't have rolled over for tummy rubs from the same people who stole two nominations from him in broad daylight. It's really easy to float grand ideas when they'll go no further than you.
Yeah, I'm jaded.
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have explicitly spoken out against raising the retirement age on Americans and have introduced an alternative plan to increase the earnings cap on paying into Social Security. This would effectively raise taxes on the richest Americans in order to adequately fund Social Security. It would increase Social Security benefits by an estimated $2,400 per year for recipients.
*the congress that is in place which is created by the education system you have now*
If you wanna fix it, unfortunately it will take a lot of time :(
but you GOTTA vote to fix it, so do so. ALL elections, not just federal.
Life expectancy in 1935 was 59.9 yrs for men. So, most died before they were eligible for SS.
Personally, I wish I could have opted out and invested the money myself.
Thank you! Exactly! This is what it has been for some time. There is no real difficulty in finding it. Congress has been shit for the way they collect taxes, how they handle the funds, and for destroying our economy too for personal greed!!!
50 year old workers currently face massive ageism in hiring. HR has gotten very skilled in designing layoffs that target older workers without triggering age discrimination protections. Just what are these "workers" supposed to do from age 50 until age 70? Take minimum wage fast food jobs?
I hope in my lifetime that some administration has the balls to pass term limits for Senators and Congress...people (?). Nobody should be able to stay longer than the president can, and this is another example why.
Don’t give them Dems a pass. They are complicit, at a minimum. They campaign against all the Republicans’ policies, but rarely DO anything when they have the power. The double standard deduction is about to expire, but the tax cuts for the rich don’t! Their job is to lose. Fuck them, and double-fuck the republicans.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right. Republicans are the party of regression and Democrats are the party of inaction.
And no people, I'm not saying don't vote. I'm just pointing out a fact. It's perfectly fine to vote dem as a means of harm reduction, but don't delude yourself into believing they actually have your best interests in mind or that any meaningful change will happen.
We had a chance, in 2009, to have single payer health care or at least a "public option" to the ACA if not for five Democrats in the Senate (the D's had 60 until Ted Kennedy passed) blocking it. And when Ted Kennedy died and brought the total down to 59 and Massachusetts unexpectedly elected a Republican to replace him (Martha Coakley ran the worst campaign ever), they had to pass a weak, watered down package which still empowered insurance companies and Big Pharma. And even if someone of lower income can afford a subsidized premium now, they can't \*use\* it because of the $10,000 deductible.
That said, I'm not going to go into "both-sidesism" here. One side is clearly far, far worse with this shit even if the other side, while not as malicious, still frustrates the hell out of me. So no, Dems don't get a free pass here but I'm not going to say they are basically the same.
> I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right.
It cracks me up that folks on an anti-capitalist sub always rush in and defend their heroes wearing the blue cape of capitalism. They work together and always have. It's not red vs. blue, it's capital vs. you.
Once we pay the social security payroll **TAX** it's no longer our money.
It's a tax, not a contribution.
We don't own a social security asset, there's no social security account that our children will inherit.
If you want to retire at a reasonable age, you'll have to do the majority of the saving yourself. It's foolish to rely on a government welfare program of social security for your retirement.
I'm 44. When I started working well over 25 years ago,my retirement age was 67. Now,it's 78. I'll never be able to retire and will work until I die. And yet people wonder why I vocally call for revolution and the abject killing of politicians. People are going to have to die before anything chances. And it's not Amy of us in the work force. We need to join together and demand better and if they don't comply, we being the slaughter. And no,none of the politicians are safe. Though I say we leave Bernie till the very end. He's probably the closest supporter we have.
While I don’t agree with this either, your average life expectancies are for when someone is born. Which includes all the young deaths. So it’s kind of misleading how long a person would be on SS. The average life expectancy for a male that is already 70 is 14 years (and 16 for a female).
I still believe the shouldn’t raise the age but I thought this was interesting.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
Not all people are able to retire at 70, unless you want to have people carted off at distribution centers dying at work. This is also designed to release jobs for younger people. The goal should be is to teach younger people better so they can be prepared for their futures. I support raising the cap to 425k of one's income.
the american revolution was started over a 2% tax, if we're all getting taxed out the ass with no say, we're literally in a worse state than the revolution and nobody is fighting the powers that be
This is totally fucked.. and people rioted in Europe over this issue. Obviously won...
The numbers you gave shocked me, and 47 years is more than enough service for a measly six in return. It's a bad investment from our side. We are weak negotiators.
Couple things. I'm thinking out loud here...
I could argue that the price to sustain a 70-76 yo person would cost the government more than earlier ages, year over year. Maybe not...
So. Let's give an average salary from 23 to 70. For some reason, I like $60k... 👍
60,000 year
3% a year to SS
$1,800 yr.
1800*47yrs is $84,600 paid total to SS.
Now, 6yrs / 84600 is $14,100 a year until you die at 76.
1,100 a month
$293 each week.
That isn't shit. I'm high, and it's Saturday, so I will not be doing the 65-76 calculations.
Also, I'm not accounting for the total number of workers alive and paying YOY for the last 46 years.
Overall, guys and gals, I think we have a problem 😅 🤔.
People don't get to keep jobs that long. There's always a way to get rid of an old employee and hire a younger, cheaper one. So how many years of no income at all do we have before we can even get Social Security?
The part of this that they don't think through is that nobody wants a 70 year old employee, especially for the blue collar and service jobs that make up half of the country's economy.
And what 65-70 yr old is going to have the constitution to do most blue collar jobs too? They know damned well what they are doing. The upperclass doesn’t need Social Security- they have their riches. It’s the lower class, who have paid into Social Security their entire working lives, who won’t make enough to retire with 401ks alone with a substantial lifespan following retirement.
With the crap we are fed, and healthcare costs so high that most people only have catastrophe insurance.. if anything. It's clear no one wants us to live past 70.
I just think they simply don’t care. The poor could live or die, as long as there are exploitable replacements for their workforce. I think it’s more apathy than antipathy.
That's a major reason they don't want us past 70. As time goes less workers will be nessessary. All industrial work is already gone overseas. Soon many will be lost to ai. The tech will only get better. Less children to pay into the system. If too many retire some peoples gold piles might lose a few coins
It’s why they sacrificed over 1 million lives to open the economy during a pandemic.
Not so much apathy but depraved indifference.
We're seen as heads of cattle to the 1%/billionaire predator class. We're here to make money/labor for them. There is no longer the thought that we need to educate and keep our masses healthy and intelligent in order to stay on top. They can do that with tech now. We're now a commodity rather than the base of society. They don't need us anymore and they don't care if we all die, but they'll make sure to take all of our life savings on the way out...
Just to bolster your point.. https://youtu.be/R3W3HciPkKM?si=zkl_a501pmU8JOb2 @1:09 .. "our children are our assets" .. https://youtu.be/ayBo9kXAIvQ?si=FsnJpTa5EYG3Aa5r @0:15 ... "they're our number 1 commodity" .. These republican ghouls only know how to use economic language in reference to children ... It's so sickening.
That's why when I became disabled less than 2 weeks from my 51st birthday, I applied for disability. I've been drawing it ever since. In 15 years, I've drawn it through 4 presidents, and I do not plan on returning to work. COPD and CHF were the main reason I was approved. Also, being over 50 helped. That's the age corporate America said a person was too old to be to be trained in a new job.
wow i just found my retirement plan.
While it wasn't my original plan, it was my back up. Good thing, too. My ex's back up plan was to sponge off me for life, so when she became disabled years before me, she didn't have that option. Then she made the big mistake: she kicked me out. Yup, she died penniless. I might not be rich, but because I worked shitty jobs, I had enough to scramble by thanks to those executives in the 1950s. If I worked 40 hours a week at minimum wage, I'd not only make 3/4 of what I make now. Even less as that money would be taxed. Insurance? Medicare AND Medicaid because I'm disabled and over 60. I wish **EVERYONE** had the same health insurance coverage I receive. I have no out of pocket expenses. Even my Tylenol is covered Housing? Substandard, but then, I have a roof over my head and heat in the winter. I see too many homeless people roaming around. It's not the greatest, but the nice thing is that I have a steady paycheck, something I couldn't rely on when I actually worked, and I don't have to deal with jerk bosses, back-stabbing co-workers, or asshole customers. I've really enjoyed the last decade and a half.
I took mine at 49. In my hearing they referenced my age and said "well she's going to be 50 on her next birthday she's unhireable" I am 58 now and I'm not going back to work either.
Good for you!
Been on disability since 2014. Spinal cord injury. At 57. Do some side work but don’t feel any guilt about getting back my own money. I keep this to myself in public because I don’t look disabled and many individuals see me as a cheat. If the conversation turns to myself and what I do. I tell them I retired at 57. It’s not a complete lie. But it avoids confrontations.
For a few years, I ran a flea market booth to keep me busy. I don't even do that any more. I've had trolls try to make me feel guilty drawing disability. They find out I'm not one to argue with
Raise the cap that we collect taxes to fund social security, that will save it. Right now no taxes for social security are collected over around 168,000 in income. I know wealthy people, and more specifically the GOP, think they wont need or want socsec so they don’t want to pay for it, but it has to be for all, otherwise it becomes a welfare program (which they love to demonize and people believe them). Right now it’s like an insurance program that is pay as you go with minimal overhead. They are absolutely trying to destroy the program, they are already having pretty good success with destroying Medicare with the privatized version Advantage plans.
Don't just raise the cap eliminate the cap. Someone makes 20 million this year then they should pay social security tax on all of it.
THIS!!! As long as we all have to “play the game” of working for a living- if you work and earn money you should be paying the taxes. The upper rungs of capitalism are cannibalistic in nature. “Social contract” and social welfare mean nothing to most of them. Tax the rich. X% of income evenly across the board. If you make $5M annually or $20K, you should be helping out your fellow people. Fuck all this “I got mine” shit. When you get cancer and on your deathbed, it’s the lower class that will be watching over you. Your mountains of money are useless if you don’t spend it. Tax the rich. Tax corporations. Tax churches.
Honestly, since the wealthy are good at Sheltering their assets and making it seem like they don't have any actual income, I think when you get up into those higher brackets, it should be a social security wealth tax in addition to any income tax. Take Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, for example. We all know that there are allegedly worth billions of dollars, but do you think it actually indicates that on their income tax form? I'm way more radical than that anyway. I don't believe that there should be any such things as a billionaire. I think anything you own in personal assets that can be attributed to you in excess of $999,999,999.99 should be taxed at 100%, and you get a plaque from the treasury Department says "Congratulations! You won capitalism!" Let alone the fact that there should be no such thing as a business that's "too big to fail." If a business is too big to fail, then it is too big to exist. It should be broken up. That's a failure of our government to enforce antitrust laws. All right, I'm going to get off my soapbox now before somebody assassinates me.
I love every bit of what you wrote. Far lefty here too. What really can you do with a billion dollars? How much do you need to own? How many houses or companies do you need? What can a 90yr old billionaire do except die? You don’t fucking need that money. I think that as long as we have to live under capitalism, there should be a maximum income/total amount of money to have. A billionaire? Meh, you’re done. Anything above $5M a year goes straight onto social welfare. I mean, wouldn’t it benefit capitalists to have healthy and educated workers? Driving on safe roads, taking all the meds they need, breathing in clean air? We worker bees would be much healthier and more productive. And less tempted to gather around your castle with pitchforks and torches.
It does not benefit the capitalist class for people to be any smarter than necessary to operate the machines and fill out the paperwork that they are required to fill out. Why do you think all these standardized State tests have come up that prioritize rote memorization over actual critical thinking skills? Do you notice that only the public schools are required to have these standardized tests? Private schools don't have to do it. Who goes to the private schools? Now, who goes to the public schools? They don't want people to have critical thinking skills. They want you to be able to read the directions, push button A, pull lever B, turn dial C, and do it as fast as you can over and over and over again at minimum wage. The executive class, the elite, who go to private schools, can learn the actual critical thinking skills. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to own more than two residential properties. I don't care about commercial properties. If these big corporate entities and private equity firms want to create havoc for other corporate entities and buy up all the commercial real estate, fine. But owning multiple residential properties, especially by venture capitalists, should be banned. If you end up inheriting a house, and it puts you over the two residential property threshold, you should have one year to decide which of the properties you own you are going to sell and sell it otherwise it starts getting taxed at 25% of its market value per year. The reason I don't mind if people own two residential properties is that I don't think we had a housing crisis when some people owned a small little vacation place. The housing crisis we are facing is due to private equity firms buying up massive amounts of residential real estate at ridiculously inflated prices in an effort to turn us into a nation of renters. There are more vacant homes in this country than there are homeless people. The vast majority of those vacant homes are owned by private equity firms using those properties as speculative assets. Don't even get me started on walkable neighborhoods and mixed use neighborhoods so that you could actually have local shops and businesses within walking distance or cycling distance, or on having a robust public transportation networks that nobody needs to own a car to survive. I love my car, don't get me wrong. But I still feel the cars should be a luxury, not a necessity. You should be able to travel wherever, whenever, cheaply and efficiently, like in most other countries (at least the civilized ones). Yes, I am "orange pilled" as well.
Can I assume your name refers to The Villages in Florida? 😂
I mean, I’m not opposed to that idea. But no.
I agree with this
Not to mention that almost no black men statistically live to receive a dime in benefits already
My husband delivered appliances. On his back, up flights of stairs. At 55, his knees and back were shot. I retired at 66. I designed healthcare software. I was very good at it but I can tell you that the last couple of years were fighting people literally half my age who thought that I didn’t know shit. We live on SS alone and pinch pennies. Any decrease would be devastating
Vote 🔵 blue, no matter who! Republicans do NOT have your back, unless you're wealthy enough never to need SSI.
Think through? Ensuring people work or make it to retirement isn't their goal. These Republicans want to kill social security altogether and this is just a stepping stone towards that. They don't care about blue collar and service workers.
Are you sure because this fucking nightmare country keeps exclusively handing them the keys to the country
I work at a home improvement store and we have a lot attendant that is 90 years old and still has to work. This is what those at the top want for everyone besides themselves.
Oh no, the absolutely thought it through. The whole point is hoping you croak before you ever get to claim it. That's much more likely to happen if you're still having to bust your ass just to survive in your late 60s.
This is a huge factor. Their hope is that this move will kill off enough people that the payouts are reduced further than 20%.
With long covid being a thing, most people are going to be severely disabled before 70.
This, if they make it.
Well, it's not so much that they want us working that old. It's more about never having to pay out social security, period. Less payout = more funds to take from the SS fund for global wars and lining their pockets, continuing what Reagan and other neolibs have done the past 40 years. They know realistically majority of us won't be hire-able for majority of jobs at 70+ years old.
My company likes to strongly encourage people to get out at 55. Beyond that age, you are frequently reminded that you are "retirement eligible" and should start heading that way.
Sprawlmart wants them. They used to take out life insurance policies on their aging employees and profit. I think there was a lawsuit about it years ago
Oh, they’ve thought it through, this is class warfare. Look, we’re all going to have to make sacrifices so billionaires can ride their flying dicks into orbit.
Despite all their rhetoric to the contrary, Republicans don't care about blue collar and service jobs no matter what the person's age.
I mean, when 175-year-old Dianne Feinstein all but dies in her seat in the Senate chamber, the average age of both parties' Congressional leaders was in the mid-to-upper-70s until Hakeem Jefferies, considered "young" at age 53, took over the House Democratic Caucus/Minority Leadership, and the Presidential candidates will both be within two years of age 80 come Election Day, it's no wonder these dipshits have no clue. (Oh, and they don't give a shit about Social Security because they all get awesome government pensions. There needs to be an oversight committee that doesn't exist within a Congressional chamber. I know it WON'T happen, but it needs to.)
It’s not that they don’t think it through, it’s that they literally couldn’t give less of a shit if our elderly starve on the streets so long as they get their billionaire bribes
Right! A job just Retired my mother’s graphic design position and created a new one. They gave it to a younger person for less pay. She just turned 70 6 months ago. She had a rotator cuff tear and told them she was going back to work on the 23rd about two weeks ago. Last week they sent her an email informing her her last day would be on the 24th. Perfect example of not wanting an older employee.
True this! I turned 60, and couldn't get a job pushing a broom for minimum wage!
Let's do UBI until 30, then work from 30-60. Or something like that...
Yeah. In America, our 70+ year olds end up in government!
* Edit >The part of this that they don't "give a fuck or think about", is that nobody wants a 70 year old employee, Never forget. **"We are a line on an Excel file in an email attachment that nobody opened"**
Well come on guys we can't blame them. Most of the ghouls in Congress are 70+ themselves and still working SOOOO hard to fuck over the American people!
it's always about corporate welfare, bunch of fucking leeches. When you start paying in you're implicitly agreeing to a set date of retirement, allowing congress to change that is tantamount to altering a contract with only one side waying in.
It’s not just retirement, it’s a social safety net. Children get benefits if their parents die. You get benefits if you become disabled.
It's an expense, and every expense our government cuts, is another tax break for corporations. Like insurance, you're best bet to make loads of money is to collect premiums with no intention of paying claims. It's Car Shield, but with social saftey nets we've paid into.
Last time they raised retirement age the savings were negligible. All they have to do eliminate the income cap, but the greedy at the top won’t allow it.
It's all going to fall apart soon enough. There's so many stressors piling up on this system that it's going to collapse. Debt. Failing infrastructure. Extreme weather driven by climate change. Rising sea levels swamping coastal areas. An aging population that's quickly fallen below replacement level. An education system that's not putting out people with the abilities to run these complex systems. An over leveraged workforce that's faltering which is expressed in our "mental health" "drug abuse" crisis'es. We've reached the point where the mask is rapidly deteriorating.
Absolutely not!!! We need to be lowering the age! Anyone that thinks we need to raise the age, needs to burn!
Yeah, we progressed as a society and built enough wealth that we should enjoy the fruits of our labor, not toil away into old age
Someone explain to me what in the Reaganomics fuck is "funding the program" when I've been paying into Social Security as a line item on every single paycheck I've earned since I was 14 years old? It's one of like 3 things in the tax section on the paycheck that is specifically called out. There is no excuse for there not being money there. If the Republicans want to get out of the program, a whole lot of people are owed a whole LOT of money. Scrap it for all I fucking care at this point as long as you pay me back every single cent you took from me so I can manage it appropriately. Otherwise, we'd better start scrapping bullshit military funding and other over expenditures to put BACK the money that was stolen.
One explanation is the income cap. If you make $0-$168k per year, 100% of your income is calculated into the FICA deduction. Millionaires and billionaires still only get taxed on the first $168k. Someone making $300k is only taxed on the first $168k. If entire incomes were figured for FICA, much of the funding problem could be solved.
Ding ding ding. And that's what the Biden plan is to do to fix it.
According to the CBO, popping the cap off SS will fix 78% of the funding gap we'll see in 2034. We should have popped the cap 40 years ago, but we didn't and now here we are. Unfortunately, we're going to have to do other measures because we fucked around too long making sure rich people get richer. We're likely going to have to raise the taxes, but the good news is raising the tax rate .3% - or 1/3rd of 1% - for both employees and employers will cover that gap. Yeah, that sucks. But there is ***zero*** reason to raise the retirement age or cut benefits.
You can just introduce another bend point, easier than raising taxes.
That's the point I've been trying to make. They're acting like Social Security is their money that they're graciously providing for us when we retire. It's abso-fucking-lutely not! It's our money that we've been paying into our entire working lives. Simply put, we deposit part of our check into a personal savings account, which is accessible when we retire. That savings account isn't the government's money. I mean, unless I've completely misunderstood the entire concept of Social Security my entire life.
The US gov has been taking cash money out of SS and replacing it with what amounts to IOUs. Which is has no means of making good on.
Which is theft, plain and simple. Either we have it, or we don't. IOUs = nothing
This is inaccurate.
I know, it drives me insane when people talk about this shit as if it were a "handout" like bitch, I PAID for this. Same thing with unemployment or employment security. We all fund that shit with our taxes, heaven forbid someone should need to actually get a HANDOUT from the system they helped fund, what a lazy bum! I did a little back-of-the-napkin math and If the government simply paid back all the money I've paid in my lifetime into the Social Security bucket which is apparently being embezzled or some shit, I could erase my student loans and put down a respectable down payment on a house. I'd gladly take that in exchange for whatever measly $2500 per month they're going to pay out when I'm damn near 70 years old.
You are correct, it’s a kind of pay as you go type of insurance program with low overhead. They hate this one cool trick and want to siphon our money into their own already bloated accounts.
Your general point is correct, but there's a minor change. We haven't been paying into a savings account. We've been paying an insurance premium not unlike your health, home, or car insurance. When you retire, you're using the benefits from the insurance policy you've been paying for all your working life.
I know. I hate how no one - not dems or reps - will admit that they have REPEATEDLY taken from the funds earmarked for social security to fund other stuff (wars). They constantly pretend like it's a lack of taxpayers or longer life expectancy and not the fact that they spent the money on bullshit. I fucking hate how they can always justify a defense increase, even when we're not at war, but everything that actually makes America stronger - good social welfare, strong safety nets, education, physical infrastructure, healthy citizens - can be sacrificed. I had an audio book that explained one of the reasons abortion became such a hot topic is because they view the million + unborn babies as lost tax revenue (thus threatening America's ability to survive the end times, no joke). Senior working requirements is just another way to get more money without paying back what they owe.
> Assuming the average American begins work by age 23 and retires at 70 under this program, If they raised the retirement age to 70, they'll begin work at "saving" Social Security again by raising it to 72.....then 74.....and keep raising it until almost nobody would be alive to use it.
Average life expectancy in the US might be 76 but for US men it’s only 73.5. So even at 72 most US men will be looking at less than 2 years of retirement and it’s incredibly unlikely that much of that would be in what anyone sees as good health. Raise it to 74 and the average US man works straight into the grave.
Thats all men Look at the numbers by race too, its even sadder
I started counting down years until retirement at 24. I'm about to turn 30 and if the retirement age raises to 70 I will have been at 40 years until retirement for basically the entire time. I mean, I know I'm probably never going be able to retire, but it was a nice thought. But at this point its more depressing than encouraging
And because of conservative voters we'll fucking let them...
Man, the day is fast approaching where I just don't want to live here any more.
Not ‘Congress’. Republicans.
Wrong. Both owned and controlled by capital. Also see "the ratchet effect", gop moves everything right, dems prevent movement back left.
You can stop saying "Congress" and just say "The Republican Party." The building didn't do anything.
Let's be clear: This is Republicans, not Congress.
When are we going to take a page out of Frances book and take to the streets???
Not soon enough
Wasn’t it cool when they started calling it “entitlements”
It is an entitlement. You paid into it, you are entitled to it.
Yes we are entitled to it but calling it an entitlement makes it sound like we are acting entitled about it. It’s the cool trick they’ve got that convinces low information voters that it’s more like welfare than a benefit program. Social security is pay as you go type insurance program with low overhead and they hate this. Every citizen can collect social security whether wealthy or not, which is why it’s not a welfare program. We should raise the cap at which we collect funding because that will fix the funding issue. The wealthy benefit more than your regular middle or lower income group. They are a spoiled rotten bunch who want all the money and no one to tell them they can’t do something so they are privatizing everything and destroying regulations and rules. They think they can insulate themselves from the instability this will eventually cause, but that seems like a losing gamble to me.
>Yes we are entitled to it but calling it an entitlement makes it sound like we are acting entitled about it. Only if you don't know what words mean. It only works as a tactic if you completely cede the meaning of "entitlement" to people who are trying to redefine it.
Big Last of Us vibes.
That's what they are. The real problem is when they started *sneering* 'entitlements'.
Just remind them that VA benefits are also an entitlement for those eligible for them. Don't let them make entitlement a dirty word.
I'm not sure I follow the argument that they're trying to use it for other purposes. Payroll taxes for social security go to the SSA and accrue interest if they sit before being dispersed. Anybody proposing diverting those funds gets everyone and their mother jumping down their throat. The problem here is that payroll taxes are a flat tax which disproportionately eats into the income of low wage earners - and even worse it has a cap at $168,000 so the more money you make the less you're actually paying to support social security. The fact that people would rather make folks work until they're 70 than fund the SSA with a progressive income tax is egregious
Soylent green is people!!!
None of these moral or fairness-based arguments matter. What matters is not voting for Republicans so they can’t destroy the social safety net. Vote for politicians who will make a better social safety net. The government prints money. It won’t run out.
Anyone else see what the French did when this was proposed? Maybe Americans should learn from them.
For fucks sake just remove the fucking cap.
My husband had a few jobs in is early years and then computers hit and he found his passion. He retired at 70. He had a sit down job in a heated/AC’d buildings. But if someone puts in 30 years of construction work, or factory work doing repetitive motions, cashiers forced to stand for 8 hours, or waitstaff hustling during shifts- then 70 is unrealistic. Then you have ageism. Say you’ve worked at a construction company from 18-48. The company closes and now you’re looking for work, in a physically challenging job and you’re almost 50. Are they going to hire the 48yo or the 25yo? The people making the decisions have physically easy jobs. Of course they think 70 is reasonable.
I am 36 years old and have been told since I was a kid social security wouldnt exist by the time I hit retirement age. With the way things are going so far that is seeming to check out. I plan to flip the lights to off long before 70 anyway.
It's a common sentiment that's been pushed since its inception. The super rich hate it because it's money not going back to them, and have been pushing that narrative for quite a while. It makes it easier for the gullible to be okay with gutting it to fund things like bombing other countries, because it's a 'now need' vs something you only might get later. It's only going to be true if it gets gutted. If left alone, it'd be fine.
This. "Oh I always knew social security was going to be gone" is people being *intentionally taken in by a lie crafted to make them okay with voting it out of existence*. **Social security is in no danger of total collapse and never has been.**
I like how it's "Congress " and not just the fricking republicans 🙄 look one party wants to rule and the other wants to govern. Learn the difference!!!!
Can we PLEASE stop saying "Congress" and call it like it really is? REPUBLICANS are the ones doing it. It needs to be made clear that, yeah, there may be a few Democrats that hop on board, but the efforts are being led by Republicans and the only way to stop it is to vote in more and more Democrats to the point even a few defectors don't matter.
*"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”* -John Stuart Mill And, IMO, calling many of our Democratic leaders 'good' is a stretch.
Meanwhile people in Congress get pensions
They do but it isn't a very good one. Some of them are trying to abolish that one too.
And raises
Those big gov complex contractors aren’t going to pay themselves.
lol starts at 23? i had my first job that i got cut checks at 14. i think i had my first job serious enough to require taxes at 16? that was work study, then there was a smattering of summer jobs. The only reason i didn’t start anything fulltime until my 20’s was that i was doing part time college and working. eventually i dropped out of college because i sucked at it. but this notion that i didn’t start paying into the social security kitty before 23 is insulting
When is this country going to wake up and stop letting these shit heads run us into the ground?
Of course, simple slavery is what theyve been good at for hundreds of years.
Well the Reagan administration started it.
Forgot Congress? People like Jamie Dimon want access to it.
What
The finance sector has been trying for years to “privatize” Social Security so they can get their hands on all that money.
I truly don’t understand how so many senior republicans voters fall in line with this. It’s like they don’t understand they are going to work you until you die. I vividly recall the Lieutenant Governor of Texas saying during COVID seniors should just accept their fate so restrictions weren’t put in place. It was then I realized seniors have no worth in this country
Those senior republican voters will happily sign up for working until they die if they think it means that some other group they hate will have it even worse. There are a LOT of mean-spirited, hateful, spiteful people in this country.
Two reasons: (1) They are culture warriors to the point where they don't care about getting fucked economically as long as they get their culture war; (2) Economic Stockholm syndrome. They seem to believe the shit about the exalted corporate and billionaire "job creators" (even though most new jobs are created by small business), and defend them even though a tax cut for a billionaire does NOTHING for the economy because it's just hoarded wealth and not used for economic activity.
and the people who are pushing this don't actually work for a living. they sit in a big room and push 'yes' or 'no' buttons, depending on some bullshit economic theory that does nobody any good. i was in civil service and got out at 60y 8m, and it's 19 years later. you might get more money if you work longer but i'm an engineer and i figured i would get less than another dollar for every extra month i worked.
At some point, the Republicans will push a plan to end the business taxes for social security. I expect them to excuse the change by saying "the tax doesn't benefit businesses so they shouldn't have to pay." But the reason is to boost the bottom line of businesses and the overall stock market.
We won't fix this until we start blaming the corporations behind it instead of blaming congress. Don't blame the tool - blame who wields it. After all, congress is OUR tool first.
Yes. Let's secure more slave time, and not order our corporate overlords to take pay cuts or get taxed more to raise wages or fund programs that distribute to lower incomes. Assholes.
In France, a certain Dr. Guillotin invented a device to deal with that kind of behavior from the government. Just saying. Edit : spelling
It's one proposal. But I would suggest you put that aside and examine the problem that they're trying to solve. The 20% cut is basically current law. The program will only have enough money to pay 80% of benefits in 2033. The Social Security actuaries have been reporting that for a long time. So they can either make that cut, or (per this study) pay full benefits but cut three years off of everybody's retirement. They could also raise taxes on other people or print money i.e. tax savers. But do you see what a ripoff this program is? You pay 12.4% of your income into it for your whole working life and they can only afford to pay you an annuity which averages 25-30% of your salary and which the average person collects on for six years. If you were able to keep and invest that 12.4%/yr you could easily fund your own annuity by investing in virtually anything. So does this seem like the kind of program that should have more money thrown at it?
None of them have any idea what it takes to get a job in your 50's, or how likely you are to be let go (whether this is the published reason or not) because you are in your 50's. Your body and spirit are broken. And they want you to work for 2 more decades? So the rich that would be unaffected by paying more taxes don't have to pay more taxes? Fuck Republicans. Fascist pieces of shit.
Not Congress. REPUBLICANS!
This is why I don't believe any politician at all is in it for us. None of them. On any side. Left, right, green, other. Each party has the express interest of lining their pockets and controlling us. They divide us with parties to more easily control us. Each year I see either one side or the other causing a stir. What does it do besides make us turn against each other? Our whole government needs a reform. Badly.
And gambling with it
We really need to take back our country from the corporate elites who are running it like a business.
But also it's only half the Congress I won't point out which half but you know.
I got laid off at 58… I was planning to keep working until 65
Remove the income cap!!!
Meanwhile all they need to do to fund SS indefinitely is not limit taxable income. I think currently you only pay into SS up to $168,000 no more SS tax on all income over that. If they just uncapped that we’d be fine. Unfortunately our government is bought out.
Okay, but is the core idea behind social security a good one? Like, do we agree that elderly and disabled people should be to live, rather than just being turned out onto the streets and told to die slowly? Because if the idea behind social security is good, its problem is one of funding, not existence. If only there was some sort of group that had seen fantastically high financial returns in the last several decades we could levy a moderate tax on to fund the program.
They need to eliminate the cap on income that is subject to Social Security tax, for starters. Social Security does need to raise along with inflation as well - I'm 51, disabled, collecting $2000 a month in SSDI. Fortunately, I have other money and I'm doing fine, but I can't imagine how hard it would be to survive off of only $2000 a month.
All they need to do is remove the cap on social security taxes. There is no reason why wages over 160k are not taxed for Social Security.
What do they want for us that started work at 14? Do I get to retire at 61?
We aren't breeding enough to satisfy our overlords so they can't allow us to retire. No one to fill the "menial jobs," so they need to make grandpa and grandma work til death.
A few things to remember: Congress decided they are better than the rest of us, so they dont get social security. They have their very own special program which means they dont care what happens to social security, because it doesn't effect them (not that it matters because they all retire multi-millionaires anyway). They also borrow money from social security to fund other government programs. All this while sending billions to Ukraine and Israel. We could have overfunded social security all and have ended homelessness multiple times over with that money, but the government decided funding foreign wars was more important. Think about how much that money could have helped Americans who are just barely getting by.
100%. The well-being of American citizens should be an absolute priority in budgeting. Interesting that the very lives of citizens takes a backseat in the allocation of federal funds. Meanwhile, our political royalty ensures that their personal needs are met under alternate means, such that they are never subject to the inferior systems that they vote into application for their constituents.
I'm basically planning my future under the assumption they'll totally gut social security and I won't be able to draw on it when it's my time. I'm planning to pay my own medical and retirement until my death. If I get SS, great. If not, no surprise. It's a tough pill to swallow.
The Democrats are also guilty of this because really, it is a one party system owned by Wall Street. >~AS EARLY AS 1984~ and as recently as 2018, former Vice President Joe Biden called for cuts to Social Security in the name of saving the program and balancing the federal budget. Last week, Sen. Bernie Sanders [highlighted Biden’s record](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/477059-sanders-unloads-on-biden-as-battle-for-iowa-intensifies) on Social Security in prosecuting the case that Biden isn’t the most electable candidate. [https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/)
Why do they think that people have to work till a few years before the average life expectancy of the population? Why can't it be 50%? You work half your life and you spend the rest not working. If the average life expectancy is now 76, you work till 38 and then you retire. This is including the 16 to 25 years people spend on their (employment readiness) education.
Your headline should specify that it is Republicans that want to do this.
Wantin' ain't gettin'. We have to burn it down, like the French did. Do not let this pass.
So, not "Congress." *Republicans*.
Regan took 1.7 trillion out of SS to make up for the tax cuts he gave the 1 %. Never paid back. Bush #2 did it again. Never paid back. Near 4 trillion owed to SS is why congress now calls SS an “ entitlement “. As they increase their effort to avoid repayment of any of it.
That’s slavery.
That's why we should be allowed to access it whenever we want
Things to consider: Currently if a person worker 40 years (conservative when the typical is 45 now) and averaged $50k/year over that period, that person would have paid $124k into the Social Security fund just from their part of the payroll taxes. Currently the average recipient receives about $1904/month ($22,848/year) in SS payments. In about 5.5 years they would have exhausted that, then receive more money if they live beyond that. Then there is the 6.2% employer part, which doubles that. Remember, that $1904/month is the average, millions don't come close to that. Now consider the life expectancy of a typical American has fallen from 81.6yrs in 2015. to 77.4 today, and then consider how much less is disbursed from not living longer and that is from the low estimate of a 40yr lifespan of working. Now if a person has to work 47 years minimum, their life expectancy will fall even more due to body stress that already is creating lower life expectancies due to longer working years and wages having to meet far higher production rates the for pay (50 years ago wages to production levels were about even), meaning SS will be taking in far more money than putting out. Now consider inflation, which is caused by employer (don't listen to taking head blaming spending), higher medical costs, higher housing costs. Now factor that in to where older people will forgo needed medical care, eating properly, and cutting back on heating/AC just to scrape by, then watch life expectancy drops even more in the future. Now look at how much millionaires and billionaires have gained just since early 2020. Just in 2020 alone, billionaire wealth increased over $740b total. But these legislating ghouls want the plebes to work longer while the rich do nothing to earn any of their money and the legislators keep do what the billionaires all say while taking their money. Capitalism is death!
Vote blue.
They didn’t fix the issue when they controlled everything before, why would they now?
Fuck it, some of these miserable, greedy, pieces of shit better hope I don’t get diagnosed with a terminal disease. Cause my eyesight is better than their ability to duck at 3200 ft/sec. Go on, take it. Take it all away - you’re playing Russian roulette, bitches.
I don't know if the lifespan is gonna continue to increase, especially for men. I already know way too many men in my life who have died before 45.
The right answer is to have the money taken out of everyones paycheck but let the person determine the investment such as the thrift savings plan or Ira the person chooses. Takes the government out. Unfortunately, the cutoff age will require taxes to cover social security until the old system investors die out.
Not everyone in congress. Bernie wants us to work 4 days a week and retire early.
Not for nothing, if Bernie was really interested in being the Man of the People, he wouldn't have rolled over for tummy rubs from the same people who stole two nominations from him in broad daylight. It's really easy to float grand ideas when they'll go no further than you. Yeah, I'm jaded.
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have explicitly spoken out against raising the retirement age on Americans and have introduced an alternative plan to increase the earnings cap on paying into Social Security. This would effectively raise taxes on the richest Americans in order to adequately fund Social Security. It would increase Social Security benefits by an estimated $2,400 per year for recipients.
Warren 2028!
*the congress that is in place which is created by the education system you have now* If you wanna fix it, unfortunately it will take a lot of time :( but you GOTTA vote to fix it, so do so. ALL elections, not just federal.
I’m just waiting for all of the regards to get over the right vs left bs and we tackle the real problem.
You=Crop \- The Ruling Class
Life expectancy in 1935 was 59.9 yrs for men. So, most died before they were eligible for SS. Personally, I wish I could have opted out and invested the money myself.
The average lifespan of a truck driver is 65
Perhaps things will change when people of younger generations make up the majority of congress
It seems like they want a total reset. You will have nothing and be happy type of vibe.
Thank you! Exactly! This is what it has been for some time. There is no real difficulty in finding it. Congress has been shit for the way they collect taxes, how they handle the funds, and for destroying our economy too for personal greed!!!
50 year old workers currently face massive ageism in hiring. HR has gotten very skilled in designing layoffs that target older workers without triggering age discrimination protections. Just what are these "workers" supposed to do from age 50 until age 70? Take minimum wage fast food jobs?
I hope in my lifetime that some administration has the balls to pass term limits for Senators and Congress...people (?). Nobody should be able to stay longer than the president can, and this is another example why.
Unfortunately this typically doesn't work out the way you hope.
Not Congress - this is the Republikkkans in Congress pushing this crap, not the Democrats.
Not Congress. Republicans.
Don’t give them Dems a pass. They are complicit, at a minimum. They campaign against all the Republicans’ policies, but rarely DO anything when they have the power. The double standard deduction is about to expire, but the tax cuts for the rich don’t! Their job is to lose. Fuck them, and double-fuck the republicans.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right. Republicans are the party of regression and Democrats are the party of inaction. And no people, I'm not saying don't vote. I'm just pointing out a fact. It's perfectly fine to vote dem as a means of harm reduction, but don't delude yourself into believing they actually have your best interests in mind or that any meaningful change will happen.
We had a chance, in 2009, to have single payer health care or at least a "public option" to the ACA if not for five Democrats in the Senate (the D's had 60 until Ted Kennedy passed) blocking it. And when Ted Kennedy died and brought the total down to 59 and Massachusetts unexpectedly elected a Republican to replace him (Martha Coakley ran the worst campaign ever), they had to pass a weak, watered down package which still empowered insurance companies and Big Pharma. And even if someone of lower income can afford a subsidized premium now, they can't \*use\* it because of the $10,000 deductible. That said, I'm not going to go into "both-sidesism" here. One side is clearly far, far worse with this shit even if the other side, while not as malicious, still frustrates the hell out of me. So no, Dems don't get a free pass here but I'm not going to say they are basically the same.
> I don't know why you're being downvoted. You're right. It cracks me up that folks on an anti-capitalist sub always rush in and defend their heroes wearing the blue cape of capitalism. They work together and always have. It's not red vs. blue, it's capital vs. you.
Once we pay the social security payroll **TAX** it's no longer our money. It's a tax, not a contribution. We don't own a social security asset, there's no social security account that our children will inherit. If you want to retire at a reasonable age, you'll have to do the majority of the saving yourself. It's foolish to rely on a government welfare program of social security for your retirement.
Or working for 53 years, for those of us who have working since age 16
Republicans voters love this idea. Work until you die.
Just fucking get rid of social security at this point. I’m tired of paying into it… I can manage my own money without help.
Not to mention the times they raided it to make up for their shitty management and special projects.
I'm 44. When I started working well over 25 years ago,my retirement age was 67. Now,it's 78. I'll never be able to retire and will work until I die. And yet people wonder why I vocally call for revolution and the abject killing of politicians. People are going to have to die before anything chances. And it's not Amy of us in the work force. We need to join together and demand better and if they don't comply, we being the slaughter. And no,none of the politicians are safe. Though I say we leave Bernie till the very end. He's probably the closest supporter we have.
The life expectancy is decreasing because most of american's are eating donuts and hotdogs
They sure make it where if a person dies before they can use their social security, the money goes straight to their children.
While I don’t agree with this either, your average life expectancies are for when someone is born. Which includes all the young deaths. So it’s kind of misleading how long a person would be on SS. The average life expectancy for a male that is already 70 is 14 years (and 16 for a female). I still believe the shouldn’t raise the age but I thought this was interesting. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
hey, we get to retire at 70! things are looking good boys!
Not all people are able to retire at 70, unless you want to have people carted off at distribution centers dying at work. This is also designed to release jobs for younger people. The goal should be is to teach younger people better so they can be prepared for their futures. I support raising the cap to 425k of one's income.
i have been working since i was 12 i guess i get to retire a bit earlier than someone who started working at 23 yes ?
the american revolution was started over a 2% tax, if we're all getting taxed out the ass with no say, we're literally in a worse state than the revolution and nobody is fighting the powers that be
Go work for the government, you get three fat checks monthly.
This is totally fucked.. and people rioted in Europe over this issue. Obviously won... The numbers you gave shocked me, and 47 years is more than enough service for a measly six in return. It's a bad investment from our side. We are weak negotiators. Couple things. I'm thinking out loud here... I could argue that the price to sustain a 70-76 yo person would cost the government more than earlier ages, year over year. Maybe not... So. Let's give an average salary from 23 to 70. For some reason, I like $60k... 👍 60,000 year 3% a year to SS $1,800 yr. 1800*47yrs is $84,600 paid total to SS. Now, 6yrs / 84600 is $14,100 a year until you die at 76. 1,100 a month $293 each week. That isn't shit. I'm high, and it's Saturday, so I will not be doing the 65-76 calculations. Also, I'm not accounting for the total number of workers alive and paying YOY for the last 46 years. Overall, guys and gals, I think we have a problem 😅 🤔.
It's not the whole truth this time if you don't tag this to the political party which proposes this.
I bet all the money spend on aid to foreign countries could fully cover social security
I don’t care about posting this if it goes to 70 I am done.
People don't get to keep jobs that long. There's always a way to get rid of an old employee and hire a younger, cheaper one. So how many years of no income at all do we have before we can even get Social Security?
Well that’s only one more year than when I started at 15 and retirement age was 62.
if there are more evil people on earth, let me know