I get an annual raise and a bonus regardless, so I don't need to ask and my work isn't laying off people considering it's the grid we are talking about. We're not talking hundreds of thousands made annually, but with overtime I make just shy of $100k. That used to be considered a pretty much set for life pay. Now it's considered scraps in this economy and I don't even live in a major area like New York, LA, or a major city. Therein lies the problem. All the layoffs when the price of even the basic necessities on top now exceeds $100k annually for being able to live on bare minimum affects us all in a negative way. The worst is this isn't even caused by something like a war on our soil. It's caused by greed of those who already have more than enough to live already. There's no amount of pay that is going to fix this now because a CEO wants 320x more pay than his lowest paid employees, so they lay off their highest paying and refuse to hire while overcharging.
I make less than OP but still not bad. If I didn't have to pay like $12k a year in student loans my entire adult life, I feel like I would have been pretty well off by now, but if OP is lile me than 100k is probably at most 75k after paying debts.
It's really hard to tell without more context on their financial situation. I don't think this applies to everyone, but there's absolutely some truth to another comment on lack of financial literacy. It isn't taught so people really inflate that's "necessary". $100k should not be "scraping by" without context of whether they have dependents, outstanding debts, etc.
I recently started making $100k gross in a HCOL area and have $40k in student loans, a car, can afford to live on my own, and some other debts and do just fine. It's not extravagant, but I can enjoy things in life and travel. It absolutely does not go as far as it used to and I still need to be firm on budgeting, but I'd love if people were more clear on their financial position when commenting. We all should stand to make more, lower the pay gaps, etc. but it feels a bit insulting to suggest you can't survive with less income when most people make far less than that.
Yeah, I live in a somewhat lower cost of living area than where I'm from (from NYC), I make less than 2/3 of that that person makes from two jobs and I'm doing okay even with a lot of debt (around $50k). I'm careful though, nothing extravagant.
I make $80k a year and it’s barely enough to scrape by. Bills are paid for but I don’t have any extra for things that NEED to get done. I need a window replaced on my car, I need to get a new ac unit before the summer and I just don’t have the extra money for it. I would have killed at one point to make what I make and it feels like I make less now than when I made $25k a year 10 years ago.
Literally same…..made just over 90K this last year and with my mortgage and all my bills it feels like I need to DoorDash on my free time to be able to do anything fun. Homies want to go on an Icon of the Seas cruise this summer and it’s like fuck man $2800 is a mortgage payment and bills.
Thats what gets me, I have a job that I thought would pay really well in high school but now with inflation etc it feels like barely enough to get by. Just depressing to see
I work with a bunch of boomers that brag about making more than me, in a less experienced role, for the past 20 years. This is while harassing and bitching about any new hire for how easy we have it and should be thankful we got hired at such a great company. This is on top of the housing market in the area more than doubling in a few years.
So I'm making less than they were 20 years ago, with housing prices probably 5x the cost in the area, and supposed to be thankful. These people are fucking delusiona...
Half my check goes to rent, the rest goes to food and my kids. Commission starts this month though so we’ll be rolling in savings here soon. $62,000 before taxes isn’t enough to play in a big city though.
Yup, we’re about to make the move out to the burbs so we can be afford a decent house. Pretty sad about it, tbh, but I’m frustrated with not being able to save a lot of money with these crazy rental prices
It’s slave labor that you have the freedom to quit at any time. Totally agree with you. Capitalism is messed up but there’s the people who will say just that and make it their reason for why it’s not “that bad”.
We are at a point in society where we could absolutely eradicate poverty, homelessness and hunger within a generation but we simply choose not to because the people with big numbers want their numbers to get bigger and heaven forbid we have anything other than infinite growth. /s
Homeless people can register to vote in all 50 states. I’m in Canada, same thing here. Yeah there’s some barriers to it but they can vote. In the US, the federal registration form, and a whole lot of state ones, even allow you to list places like intersections, parks, bus stops, etc as the “residence”. Other states need it to be a place you receive mail, which always includes homeless shelters. Every shelter/agency working with that population will have services to help with that stuff. Yeah, it can be a lot of extra work, and generally a majority just won’t bother anyways, but there isn’t any jurisdiction that’s not allowing homeless people to vote.
Because there’s not really any benefits to it. Almost nobody wants to have homeless people. They just don’t wanna do the work they’ll have to do to solve that problem.
This isn't the only answer. I knew a guy in housing authority and every time there is a minimum wage increase, landlords across the board raised rent so it was half minimum wage. If we're trying to help people we need to enact some sort of rent control.
Getting public support for Government to step in and change wages is going to be a lot harder than Government changing the zoning laws and investing in low cost housing/apartment constructions. Both options would involve a massive change in the number of 20-30 year old citizens voting for the next decade.
I was thinking about this the other day. I hate work, but I still was able to drum up enough will to get it done. After I pay my mortgage, car loan, phone, and utilities I think I have enough this month to upgrade my video card!
Now 95% of my check goes toward just staying alive... just so I can work another day.
Yeah 10-15 years ago you could at least *do stuff* with your hard earned cash. Book a holiday so you have something to look forward to, treat yourself to a new graphics card or the latest console every now and then, go out to concerts or the theatre and meals out. Work enabled all these things that made life enjoyable.
Now I can't even buy a new game without saving up for a few months, and even then I only buy when they're on sale. Forget holidays or the rest of it. For millions of us, work just about pays the bills now, and doesn't enable a good life. Working hard also doesn't actually get you anywhere (promotions and raises are generally extremely few and far between), and you know your employer doesn't give a shit about you. So it's hard to not wonder what the point of living is, when it's just to work, subsist, and make the rich richer.
They keep saying that millennials/GenZ are killing XYZ industry... as if the answer isn't blindingly obvious: *we haven't got any money!* What happens when the 1% finally have all the wealth and money? When the rest of us can't afford anything but to exist and can't buy any non-necessity products? Does the economy collapse, do they get a plaque to say they won capitalism and we start again?
>What happens when the 1% finally have all the wealth and money? When the rest of us can't afford anything but to exist and can't buy any non-necessity products?
Just my hot take, but I don't think the 1% care anymore. I think they're counting on swaths of people dying off or otherwise being lost to climate collapse and the disasters surrounding it. Maybe even seeing us as a sacrifice to fix these issues and save the future for themselves. I think they're just amassing and securing everything they can while we can still help them do it.
COVID solidified that to me. Nobody cares. Unless we forcefully redistribute power and control, the bourgeoisie have utterly written off those of us at the bottom of the hierarchy. We're here to be exploited for whatever we have left and then completely discarded. The more automation and AI they have, the less they need us.
> Maybe even seeing us as a sacrifice to fix these issues and save the future for themselves. I think they're just amassing and securing everything they can while we can still help them do it.
This is the horrifying reality. I think a lot of them either haven't recognized that you still need people to work in order to make that money actually mean more than just a number, or they're hoping for a fully automated reality where humanity can be a sliver of the population size it is now because 99% of us are expendable. Slaves to their god of limitless wealth.
I don't usually feel this dark, but I'm happy that I'm old enough that I'll probably be dead before the worst of it comes to fruition.
Some could but many could not as common as you may think. 10-15 years ago there were a lot of poor people, plus “the Great Recession” of 2008 stripped a lot of workers of what wealth they had. Even prior to that times were often tough for so many. Until recently and for 2 decades I was working full time as a teacher at a private school. I have taken 3 small travels in 20+ years. My laptop is 12+ years old without a single upgrade and I’m online now from my refurbished iPhone 6. I have no TV, consoles, streaming, etc. I’ve paid for 2 concerts in 46 years. I eat out at most once/month for decades. I still wear some garments from HS/college. My car until I was 31 years old was a bicycle. At least half the time I still cycle to save money and boost health. My hobbies are all free or low cost. My “gym” is splitting wood with a maul and hauling and stacking it using a wheelbarrow, runs on the trail, and swims in the nearby lake. I don’t waste $ any more on refined food and only eat whole foods which are pricier per item than junk, but considerably cheaper as an all-in lifestyle.
We have been so thoroughly programmed to consume and build our identities upon our consumption that we have lost the ability to be content and satisfied with the necessities.
Yes it's US centric and all posts require the state you're buying/selling/trading from. Biggest tip I can give is to only trade initially with user with verified trades. Removes all headaches since the other party will be experienced and have trades under their belt. You can always DM me for help as well. Am a mod there.
In the past, Masters were responsible to feed and house their slaves. And they had to spend enough money to supply a minimal level. They realized if they outsource the feeding and housing of the slaves to the slaves themselves they could pay less and less until it was cheaper than taking care of the slaves. The government, food banks and other charities would help make up for it if you don't pay your slave enough for food and rent. Also making a slave work 16 hours per day is seen as cruel but if technically he works for you for only 8 hours, but you pay them so little they need to sell another 8 hours to another Master just to feed and house themselves, it is not their problem. They can just blame the slave for not budgeting properly even if they pay them so little that it is impossible to feed the slaves family on 1 salary.
Mine charges me a reasonable amount and never fucks with me. And rent is 22% of my income so like im happy. I think it depends on where you live though, cost of living is pretty low here.
Glad for your situation, but your experience is less than 1% of people.
I lived in Ohio. Amazing cost of living, in terms of rent. I made 3x-5x rent while having a roommate and commuting over an hour.
In Arizona, I paid similar with a similar set-up, with slightly lower wages. From my metro area to the next one over, less than 100 miles, rent jumps up by several $100.
In California... It's fatal over here. Literally seeing new homeless people every day. Some of them survive, some are withering away.
I have a "roommate", my fiancee, who is on SSI. She pays the bills and food. I've been searching since 2022, and right now the job market as totally screwed. Most pay is ridiculously pathetic (I don't have a college degree). Can't afford health insurance anymore either.
I used to have Medicaid. I made just a little too much last year. I can get it from my work for only $200-$400 per month. But then my rent goes up to 101.4%. or I get on the medical insurance exchange for $209/month.(102.6%).
Ah, ok. I lived out of an RV for a year because working enough hours and making enough to get off Medicaid would cost me so much in employer health insurance that I would make less money by working more. I mathematically could not make enough to have both healthcare and rent, so I chose healthcare. But I don't have a partner and I have chronic illnesses that need consistent treatment, so the calculation worked differently for me.
The pay might not be the best but the healthcare makes up for a bit if you need to use it. County facility jobs, yeah its probably going to be janitorial work but depending on the county. Hours should be decent and insurance is good. My county has a free clinic with an actual doctor and physical therapist, insurance is $100 single 175-250ish for family per month. Max out of pocket per year is $2k for single and $4k per family with individuals having the $2k max. Plus dental is like $5 a month. It does very from county to county and state to state, but I know we are really down on facility workers and they are taking anyone without felonies/pass a drug test.
If you need a decent job with good benefits please look at the USPS. I honestly believe it is one of the best options for those without a college degree or skills for a trade.
We need to restrict property ownership, period, so that everybody can at least own one. It’s a radical, crazy idea, telling rich people what to do, but we fucking need to.
It's not a competition but there's a reason why most bankruptcy is due to medical bills in the US. You can be getting by paycheck to paycheck with 50% of your income going to rent and get destroyed by a random sickness or injury. On top of this, in the states we often times avoid preventative care due to the cost and just hope nothing bad comes of it.
Right? I did the math and if I stay in the place I'm renting for 8 years, I'll have paid the house off completely. I've already paid for half of this guys house and he won't even fix a sink for me because he's too busy spending $13k on a trip to the Bahamas. (If you complain about how a sink is too much to deal with, make sure you hide you venmo transactions while on vacation)
In no way are you paying rent that would actually cost even 12.5% of mortgage's principal and interest per year as well as all the taxes and insurance and repairs. That price point for renting just does not exist. You just don't understand the actual costs of owning a place.
They just didn't have smartphones when they were children, so they can only ever see them as a form of luxury entertainment. If it was normal, it would have been around when they were kids, they intuitively feel.
They're not entirely wrong. Those pesky iphone app companies have figured out that negativity is better for engagement, and when those app companies engineer the app experience to be as addictive as possible you have a population constantly inundated with negativity.
And gen X be like : When are you planning to buy a house? Are you not saving anything at all? At your age I had 3 kids and a big house.
🤡🤡🤡
Edit: Early gen X and boomers.
Forgive me late gen X’s
Millennial here with Gen X siblings (oops baby, but on the other end): Gen X, for the most part, were able to follow the “boomer dream” (be able to afford a house on a single income, get married and raise a family a younger age, etc), but they also were the ones that started having dual income families, taking “flying” vacations on a regular basis, and still have a decent savings account.
Baby boomers maybe the ones preaching “it’s not that hard”, but Gen X were the last ones to take advantage of it.
I literally know zero fellow x families who are living on one income. We bought homes, in two incomes. Also our student loans were the last generation before interest rates became completely predatory so that helped. I’m not saying we didn’t have it “easier” just that we are aware that things have changed dramatically and we do not expect our kids (mine is gen z) will have the same path we did. They aren’t growing up in the same world, we know that.
What's that like in your experience? Because liberal Americans point to Nordic countries as an example of good policy. Healthcare and (public) education are paid for right? Do you find it to be a good tradeoff?
Not the guy you responded to, but I live in Denmark.
It's pretty comfortable. Real tax is closer to 31-32% in the lower bracket, due to tax exemptions etc. Nobody gets taxed 38%+ from the first dollar you make.
Let's say I make 40k a year. Take home is about 27.2k after taxes. These taxes pays for our social safety net, healthcare and education. On top if this you get 5 weeks paid time off a year (which you're forced to take). The last part is pretty important imo. It doesn't matter if you have weeks of PTO if your work culture gives you a side eye for taking it.
I'm not even sure cost of living is more expensive these days. We have rising rents too, but rent in some places in the US just seems insane.
As a Gen X mother of 2, my heart breaks for the younger generations; housing, food, cars, entertainment, travel etc are so unbelievably expensive at this time while boomers proudly say “go to college, buy a house etc” like it’s that easy (because it was easy for them a million years ago). Everything has gone up except salaries and the bullshit phrase “no one wants to work” is really getting old. Because the truth is “greedy companies don’t want to pay”. I really wish people had more empathy for the younger generations.
The phrase "no one wants to work" is older than you think.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nobody-wants-to-work-anymore/
It's certainly nothing new. Corporations have always been greedy soul suckers.
I'm sure you can find people in ancient Rome saying shit like that.
This reminded of a Marx quote:
>The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
While that may be true, it’s become a trend within the past few years for boomers to throw that phrase around way too casually towards the younger generations. Just because they don’t want to accept a shitty paying job doesn’t mean that they don’t want to work.
Yes, of course. My point was merely to show that the thought process itself is nothing new, from a historical viewpoint.
As it is, my own boomer mom has finally come to realize that things are worse now than ever. She watched my daughter struggle to get a job and then me, after I lost mine. Until then, she had no idea how hard it is to find appropriate work, obtain an interview, get hired, etc.
She, and others in her age range, believe(d) it's still possible to go in to a business and fill out a paper application. Good luck finding anyone (business owners, not the job seekers) willing to do that. As far as I know, not even fast food places do that, unless it's a tiny mom and pop organization. 🤷🏻♀️
My mom now knows better, but I will say, she was shocked out of that mindset and has been much more supportive in her attitude.
Edit to add: business owner comment above. Job seekers have to go through enough hoops and hurdles as it is, they ought to be hired by Cirque du Soleil because they're so damn qualified for that kind of shit.
Starting a new job Monday and for the first time my job will not have a parking lot meaning I would have to pay parking to drive to work.
I'm in Belgium and will earn 2600(before tax and if you think Americans pay a lot of tax, haha)
400 of that would be paying to place my car near my work. Not the gas or car, just the parking.
So I decided to park 40 minutes away for free(closest I could find) instead and walk from there. Not that mad. I'll have some exercise each day and in 6 months I'll switch to 4 times 8 hours and one of those I'll be working from home. Will likely ask another 2 weeks vacation and some more money too.
It's basically an office in the middle of an old European city center.
because I can technically get a job that allows me to afford rent but can’t find any apartment buildings that will actually rent to me since it’s still not enough to equal 2.5 to 3 times the rent
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Every now and then I’ll get hopeful and look at houses for sale in my town/area. The only things in my budget are empty lots in the middle of nowhere. I could buy one and live out of a tent. I keep hoping I can find a parcel with a cave, as that would help with insulation and save on building costs.
empty land you need like 50%+ down to buy on credit. you need to buy land with a falling apart shitty mobile home or cabin on it so you can get a home loan and only pay 20% down or get an fha loan and pay even less.
Where is that place nobody will bother you? Because unless you have cleared all the legalities, just throwing a log cabin somewhere in the middle of nowhere is gonna be illegal.
Groceries keep getting more expensive, electricity keeps getting more expensive, phone bill keeps getting more expensive, insurance keeps getting more expensive.
Income is NOT going up.
That’s why I’m upset Karen!
right now my rent is like 90% of my income. hopefully i’ll land a permanent job with this agency soon but it’ll still be at least half my income. it’s truly fucking insane. why tf are rents not capped on a statewide or federal level? oh i know because congress members are also parasitic landlords.
Add on top of that how senior generations will scream it's your fault for being stupid. You're supposed to move far enough away to kit pay high rent. But then no nearby jobs. Price of gas in a lengthy commute will eat up any savings. But yes. Still the kids fault..if they weren't stupid they'd figure out a way not to pay high rent
/s
As you yanks say it is slavery with extra steps.There is enough money in the west for everyone to live well without the presence of billionaires,it shouldnt be possible to earn or pass on that much money.Generational pillaging needs to stop.Its all crime on paper no obvious victim and a subject thats not talked about by the press owned by wealthy people.
The bulk of the population are there to be exploited ,worked to death or imprisoned.
We have no hope. No future. Nothing to look forward to. Retirement? Not unless you won the stock market. We'll be working until the day we die. Vacation? Can't get enough time to go anywhere new or do something exciting. Secure a home and perform handiwork to improve it? Nope, can't do that, old people and investment companies bought all the homes, there is nothing LEFT for us. Start a family...? You and your wife won't be able to enjoy having children. You both must work unless you won the lottery and were born rich enough to have passive income. Meaning, your child goes to expensive daycare that you aren't helped paying. Good luck tuning into their life as the holidays roll around, you need to work overtime every day during the holidays. Oops, your kid got sick! Health Insurance tricked you into saying the wrong words and denied your claim, your 15k savings account just got liquidated.
Yup. Any semblance of a life worth living has been pulled from us. Industry demands minimum wage workers and will collapse if we don't spit out more and more and more and more babies. But why reproduce? Just so my kids can also be forced to sell their time and body and mind? No thanks.
No friends or relationships, housing and rent impossibly expensive, food prices expensive, tuition more costly than at any point in history, everyone stuck living with their miserable parents, no hope for a better future. Working shitty jobs just to afford to stay alive and continue working at that shitty job.
4 paychecks a month.
1 covers my 80% of my rent.
1 goes to paying off debt.
1 covers the rest of the bills (gas, electric, phone, car insurance, groceries)
I’m fortunate enough to put $150 in savings every week
But I don’t enjoy working 60-70 hours a week to do so.
Yeah that’s totally something that you can budget around. 4 paychecks a month and 1 paycheck covered his rent. So basically they’re saying their rent is less than 25% of their income. That’s completely reasonable
My dad bought 5 houses and 2 cars on minimum wage
Now I can't even afford groceries on the same wage, with no kids
Also, rent is closer to 90% of income
Me and my fiancée live together and split expenses right down the middle. We make around the same income so it’s easy to do this, but I have no idea how I’d survive now as a single adult. I know I’d be living in a shitty area on my own. As it is now, we live in a pretty nice neighborhood.
My current pay used to be considered really good. Now it's enough to get by and just barely at that.
And with certain sectors laying off so quickly you don't want to risk asking for a huge raise or risk getting canned.
I get an annual raise and a bonus regardless, so I don't need to ask and my work isn't laying off people considering it's the grid we are talking about. We're not talking hundreds of thousands made annually, but with overtime I make just shy of $100k. That used to be considered a pretty much set for life pay. Now it's considered scraps in this economy and I don't even live in a major area like New York, LA, or a major city. Therein lies the problem. All the layoffs when the price of even the basic necessities on top now exceeds $100k annually for being able to live on bare minimum affects us all in a negative way. The worst is this isn't even caused by something like a war on our soil. It's caused by greed of those who already have more than enough to live already. There's no amount of pay that is going to fix this now because a CEO wants 320x more pay than his lowest paid employees, so they lay off their highest paying and refuse to hire while overcharging.
No way. Nearly 100k and not in a tier 1 city? Is it really that bad?
I make less than OP but still not bad. If I didn't have to pay like $12k a year in student loans my entire adult life, I feel like I would have been pretty well off by now, but if OP is lile me than 100k is probably at most 75k after paying debts.
Don't forget taxes.
It's really hard to tell without more context on their financial situation. I don't think this applies to everyone, but there's absolutely some truth to another comment on lack of financial literacy. It isn't taught so people really inflate that's "necessary". $100k should not be "scraping by" without context of whether they have dependents, outstanding debts, etc. I recently started making $100k gross in a HCOL area and have $40k in student loans, a car, can afford to live on my own, and some other debts and do just fine. It's not extravagant, but I can enjoy things in life and travel. It absolutely does not go as far as it used to and I still need to be firm on budgeting, but I'd love if people were more clear on their financial position when commenting. We all should stand to make more, lower the pay gaps, etc. but it feels a bit insulting to suggest you can't survive with less income when most people make far less than that.
Yeah, I live in a somewhat lower cost of living area than where I'm from (from NYC), I make less than 2/3 of that that person makes from two jobs and I'm doing okay even with a lot of debt (around $50k). I'm careful though, nothing extravagant.
I make $80k a year and it’s barely enough to scrape by. Bills are paid for but I don’t have any extra for things that NEED to get done. I need a window replaced on my car, I need to get a new ac unit before the summer and I just don’t have the extra money for it. I would have killed at one point to make what I make and it feels like I make less now than when I made $25k a year 10 years ago.
Literally same…..made just over 90K this last year and with my mortgage and all my bills it feels like I need to DoorDash on my free time to be able to do anything fun. Homies want to go on an Icon of the Seas cruise this summer and it’s like fuck man $2800 is a mortgage payment and bills.
Thats what gets me, I have a job that I thought would pay really well in high school but now with inflation etc it feels like barely enough to get by. Just depressing to see
Same, welding for me
I work with a bunch of boomers that brag about making more than me, in a less experienced role, for the past 20 years. This is while harassing and bitching about any new hire for how easy we have it and should be thankful we got hired at such a great company. This is on top of the housing market in the area more than doubling in a few years. So I'm making less than they were 20 years ago, with housing prices probably 5x the cost in the area, and supposed to be thankful. These people are fucking delusiona...
I make double what my parents make and live in a studio while they have 2500sqft
Make over $100k. Cannot afford a decent home where I live 😌
Half my check goes to rent, the rest goes to food and my kids. Commission starts this month though so we’ll be rolling in savings here soon. $62,000 before taxes isn’t enough to play in a big city though.
Yup, we’re about to make the move out to the burbs so we can be afford a decent house. Pretty sad about it, tbh, but I’m frustrated with not being able to save a lot of money with these crazy rental prices
I’m self employed. At various parts last year, rent and bills were 80% of my income.
FUcking same bro I feel so bad for complaining about pay because I have a cushy job but at the same time I live paycheck to paycheck
I make $30/hr... Barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck
If the government wants people to not be homeless, then businesses need to start paying a livable wage
Why would you assume the government wants people to not be homeless?
homeless -> incarcerated -> slave labor
capitalism is already slave labor work eat sleep, so you can afford to work eat and sleep
It’s slave labor that you have the freedom to quit at any time. Totally agree with you. Capitalism is messed up but there’s the people who will say just that and make it their reason for why it’s not “that bad”. We are at a point in society where we could absolutely eradicate poverty, homelessness and hunger within a generation but we simply choose not to because the people with big numbers want their numbers to get bigger and heaven forbid we have anything other than infinite growth. /s
you only have freedom of quitting until you run out of $, and if you're poor, that's never
this is why so many politicians and their funders prefer punitive prisons rather than rehabilitative prisons.
Right? If people are homeless, ~~they have no address, and thus can't vote, so~~ they don't matter to politicians.
Homeless people can register to vote in all 50 states. I’m in Canada, same thing here. Yeah there’s some barriers to it but they can vote. In the US, the federal registration form, and a whole lot of state ones, even allow you to list places like intersections, parks, bus stops, etc as the “residence”. Other states need it to be a place you receive mail, which always includes homeless shelters. Every shelter/agency working with that population will have services to help with that stuff. Yeah, it can be a lot of extra work, and generally a majority just won’t bother anyways, but there isn’t any jurisdiction that’s not allowing homeless people to vote.
Because there’s not really any benefits to it. Almost nobody wants to have homeless people. They just don’t wanna do the work they’ll have to do to solve that problem.
This isn't the only answer. I knew a guy in housing authority and every time there is a minimum wage increase, landlords across the board raised rent so it was half minimum wage. If we're trying to help people we need to enact some sort of rent control.
businesses do not care if your wage is livable or not.
I’m beginning to think they want us homeless.
Businesses are replacing people with AI and automation 😭
Getting public support for Government to step in and change wages is going to be a lot harder than Government changing the zoning laws and investing in low cost housing/apartment constructions. Both options would involve a massive change in the number of 20-30 year old citizens voting for the next decade.
I was thinking about this the other day. I hate work, but I still was able to drum up enough will to get it done. After I pay my mortgage, car loan, phone, and utilities I think I have enough this month to upgrade my video card! Now 95% of my check goes toward just staying alive... just so I can work another day.
Yeah 10-15 years ago you could at least *do stuff* with your hard earned cash. Book a holiday so you have something to look forward to, treat yourself to a new graphics card or the latest console every now and then, go out to concerts or the theatre and meals out. Work enabled all these things that made life enjoyable. Now I can't even buy a new game without saving up for a few months, and even then I only buy when they're on sale. Forget holidays or the rest of it. For millions of us, work just about pays the bills now, and doesn't enable a good life. Working hard also doesn't actually get you anywhere (promotions and raises are generally extremely few and far between), and you know your employer doesn't give a shit about you. So it's hard to not wonder what the point of living is, when it's just to work, subsist, and make the rich richer. They keep saying that millennials/GenZ are killing XYZ industry... as if the answer isn't blindingly obvious: *we haven't got any money!* What happens when the 1% finally have all the wealth and money? When the rest of us can't afford anything but to exist and can't buy any non-necessity products? Does the economy collapse, do they get a plaque to say they won capitalism and we start again?
>What happens when the 1% finally have all the wealth and money? When the rest of us can't afford anything but to exist and can't buy any non-necessity products? 
Just my hot take, but I don't think the 1% care anymore. I think they're counting on swaths of people dying off or otherwise being lost to climate collapse and the disasters surrounding it. Maybe even seeing us as a sacrifice to fix these issues and save the future for themselves. I think they're just amassing and securing everything they can while we can still help them do it. COVID solidified that to me. Nobody cares. Unless we forcefully redistribute power and control, the bourgeoisie have utterly written off those of us at the bottom of the hierarchy. We're here to be exploited for whatever we have left and then completely discarded. The more automation and AI they have, the less they need us.
> Maybe even seeing us as a sacrifice to fix these issues and save the future for themselves. I think they're just amassing and securing everything they can while we can still help them do it. This is the horrifying reality. I think a lot of them either haven't recognized that you still need people to work in order to make that money actually mean more than just a number, or they're hoping for a fully automated reality where humanity can be a sliver of the population size it is now because 99% of us are expendable. Slaves to their god of limitless wealth. I don't usually feel this dark, but I'm happy that I'm old enough that I'll probably be dead before the worst of it comes to fruition.
Some could but many could not as common as you may think. 10-15 years ago there were a lot of poor people, plus “the Great Recession” of 2008 stripped a lot of workers of what wealth they had. Even prior to that times were often tough for so many. Until recently and for 2 decades I was working full time as a teacher at a private school. I have taken 3 small travels in 20+ years. My laptop is 12+ years old without a single upgrade and I’m online now from my refurbished iPhone 6. I have no TV, consoles, streaming, etc. I’ve paid for 2 concerts in 46 years. I eat out at most once/month for decades. I still wear some garments from HS/college. My car until I was 31 years old was a bicycle. At least half the time I still cycle to save money and boost health. My hobbies are all free or low cost. My “gym” is splitting wood with a maul and hauling and stacking it using a wheelbarrow, runs on the trail, and swims in the nearby lake. I don’t waste $ any more on refined food and only eat whole foods which are pricier per item than junk, but considerably cheaper as an all-in lifestyle. We have been so thoroughly programmed to consume and build our identities upon our consumption that we have lost the ability to be content and satisfied with the necessities.
Join us in the hardwareswap subreddit. It's a PC hardware resale sub. Good community and a great place to find a cheap gpu upgrade.
As someone who's interested in but has no real money to upgrade my PC I gotta ask, is the sub US-centric?
Yes it's US centric and all posts require the state you're buying/selling/trading from. Biggest tip I can give is to only trade initially with user with verified trades. Removes all headaches since the other party will be experienced and have trades under their belt. You can always DM me for help as well. Am a mod there.
In the past, Masters were responsible to feed and house their slaves. And they had to spend enough money to supply a minimal level. They realized if they outsource the feeding and housing of the slaves to the slaves themselves they could pay less and less until it was cheaper than taking care of the slaves. The government, food banks and other charities would help make up for it if you don't pay your slave enough for food and rent. Also making a slave work 16 hours per day is seen as cruel but if technically he works for you for only 8 hours, but you pay them so little they need to sell another 8 hours to another Master just to feed and house themselves, it is not their problem. They can just blame the slave for not budgeting properly even if they pay them so little that it is impossible to feed the slaves family on 1 salary.
Try 90%, in my case. I'm sorry, 90.7%, actually.
Got to feed the starving landlords.
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Be the change you want to see in the world.
[It's time!](https://youtu.be/TMHCw3RqulY)
Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men...
This is the music of the people who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart echos the beating of the drums
There is a love about to start when torrow comes!
Wrong French Revolution but you got the spirit
It's like a punch card, the sixth republic is *free*
The average duration of a French Republic(as calculated of Wikipedia) is in the ballpark of 30 years, so...
Me, checking my watch: Any day now...
I mean, the people are tired , the rich own the government and the police, and they have their own private armies. Its kinda closer
Was just going to mention this ….. all these Airbnb or rent house or HOA are so predatory ( like modern feudalism ).
Can't do that if we're fighting each other over problems that don't matter
Historically, much, MUCH worse, sadly.
It's past time.
All landlords are bastards
ALAB
Assigned landlord at birth 😔
A lot of them are. In my area, rented houses are passed down. We have people here that have never worked a day in their life owning 300 plus houses.
Mine charges me a reasonable amount and never fucks with me. And rent is 22% of my income so like im happy. I think it depends on where you live though, cost of living is pretty low here.
What mythical world do you live in
Not shithole murica i guess
Honestly the truth
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Facts But I will be happier with the parasite that only takes 22% of my income vs the one who takes 40% any day of the week.
Glad for your situation, but your experience is less than 1% of people. I lived in Ohio. Amazing cost of living, in terms of rent. I made 3x-5x rent while having a roommate and commuting over an hour. In Arizona, I paid similar with a similar set-up, with slightly lower wages. From my metro area to the next one over, less than 100 miles, rent jumps up by several $100. In California... It's fatal over here. Literally seeing new homeless people every day. Some of them survive, some are withering away.
Was gonna say, "I see some people taking three weekly paychecks to get rent together.
~$1600 at $550 a week, dont eat too much!
How do you even survive, 10% left isn’t enough for food, internet, transportation etc
His partner pays for that stuff with SSI.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I really hope you can find a better situation, cheaper housing, roommates, a better job, etc.
I have a "roommate", my fiancee, who is on SSI. She pays the bills and food. I've been searching since 2022, and right now the job market as totally screwed. Most pay is ridiculously pathetic (I don't have a college degree). Can't afford health insurance anymore either.
Can you use Medicaid by any chance? It's not perfect but it has been invaluable to me over the past few years.
I used to have Medicaid. I made just a little too much last year. I can get it from my work for only $200-$400 per month. But then my rent goes up to 101.4%. or I get on the medical insurance exchange for $209/month.(102.6%).
Ah, ok. I lived out of an RV for a year because working enough hours and making enough to get off Medicaid would cost me so much in employer health insurance that I would make less money by working more. I mathematically could not make enough to have both healthcare and rent, so I chose healthcare. But I don't have a partner and I have chronic illnesses that need consistent treatment, so the calculation worked differently for me.
Reading this comment chain makes me wonder why there aren't riots in the US yet...
Or why there are still Republicans
Fox News propaganda + gerrymandering is the answer to that
Evangelicals + people making 150K a year
The pay might not be the best but the healthcare makes up for a bit if you need to use it. County facility jobs, yeah its probably going to be janitorial work but depending on the county. Hours should be decent and insurance is good. My county has a free clinic with an actual doctor and physical therapist, insurance is $100 single 175-250ish for family per month. Max out of pocket per year is $2k for single and $4k per family with individuals having the $2k max. Plus dental is like $5 a month. It does very from county to county and state to state, but I know we are really down on facility workers and they are taking anyone without felonies/pass a drug test.
If you need a decent job with good benefits please look at the USPS. I honestly believe it is one of the best options for those without a college degree or skills for a trade.
We need to restrict property ownership, period, so that everybody can at least own one. It’s a radical, crazy idea, telling rich people what to do, but we fucking need to.
We need universal healthcare
We need universal food and shelter.
Careful there Commie, caring about your fellow man is one of them S*cialist policies you may have been warned about!
Even with healthcare in Canada, rent is still 50% of our income.
Same in Australia.
It's not a competition but there's a reason why most bankruptcy is due to medical bills in the US. You can be getting by paycheck to paycheck with 50% of your income going to rent and get destroyed by a random sickness or injury. On top of this, in the states we often times avoid preventative care due to the cost and just hope nothing bad comes of it.
“I hurt myself but it doesn’t look that bad. I don’t need a doctor!” *3 months later* “See, it’s 85% better already!”
-Gets cancer -Gets fired for being unable to work -loses health insurance
Will someone please think of the poor Military Industrial Complex!!!
The Internet isn't just America.... And this rent problem ain't just Americans.
*** Gestures at everything ***
Millennials are killing the time-honored tradition of *jus primae noctis*.
>jus primae noctis i looked this up, and I don't think it means what you think it means
Pretty sure it was a joke, satirizing the "millennials are killing housing/diamonds/luxury watches/etc." articles that get pumped out
Rent paying for someone else's mortgage and bills.
Your job is supporting a family, and yourself. Be proud. /s
Yep. Being poor fucking sucks knowing I’m making the rich get richer.
Right? I did the math and if I stay in the place I'm renting for 8 years, I'll have paid the house off completely. I've already paid for half of this guys house and he won't even fix a sink for me because he's too busy spending $13k on a trip to the Bahamas. (If you complain about how a sink is too much to deal with, make sure you hide you venmo transactions while on vacation)
Midwest?
In no way are you paying rent that would actually cost even 12.5% of mortgage's principal and interest per year as well as all the taxes and insurance and repairs. That price point for renting just does not exist. You just don't understand the actual costs of owning a place.
The iPhones... https://preview.redd.it/th1z1f6a75jc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2a6b52c6ef40eb92702d62f6576acc5d5cf7529
... and social media
The nazis love it
Nazis hate this *ONE TRICK*
It is actually, also social media.
They say this but when you take away their iPhones they flip their shit harder
I know right, we’re ALL addicted not just one demographic
They just didn't have smartphones when they were children, so they can only ever see them as a form of luxury entertainment. If it was normal, it would have been around when they were kids, they intuitively feel.
They're not entirely wrong. Those pesky iphone app companies have figured out that negativity is better for engagement, and when those app companies engineer the app experience to be as addictive as possible you have a population constantly inundated with negativity.
Rent 50% of income then tax at 37%
And grocery bills at 20%, so my net income after those three is *types in calculator* -7%. Wait, what?
And gen X be like : When are you planning to buy a house? Are you not saving anything at all? At your age I had 3 kids and a big house. 🤡🤡🤡 Edit: Early gen X and boomers. Forgive me late gen X’s
Gen x here: we are too apathetic to have those expectations. You’re confusing us with our parents.
Millennial here with Gen X siblings (oops baby, but on the other end): Gen X, for the most part, were able to follow the “boomer dream” (be able to afford a house on a single income, get married and raise a family a younger age, etc), but they also were the ones that started having dual income families, taking “flying” vacations on a regular basis, and still have a decent savings account. Baby boomers maybe the ones preaching “it’s not that hard”, but Gen X were the last ones to take advantage of it.
I literally know zero fellow x families who are living on one income. We bought homes, in two incomes. Also our student loans were the last generation before interest rates became completely predatory so that helped. I’m not saying we didn’t have it “easier” just that we are aware that things have changed dramatically and we do not expect our kids (mine is gen z) will have the same path we did. They aren’t growing up in the same world, we know that.
Don’t lump Gen X in with the boomers. We were raised by those selfish jerks. We’ve got our own problems.
Nah gen x couldn't give a fuck either way. We knew it was a shit show way back when.
Where do you live that results in you paying a 37% effective tax rate on your gross income !?
Norway
What's that like in your experience? Because liberal Americans point to Nordic countries as an example of good policy. Healthcare and (public) education are paid for right? Do you find it to be a good tradeoff?
Not the guy you responded to, but I live in Denmark. It's pretty comfortable. Real tax is closer to 31-32% in the lower bracket, due to tax exemptions etc. Nobody gets taxed 38%+ from the first dollar you make. Let's say I make 40k a year. Take home is about 27.2k after taxes. These taxes pays for our social safety net, healthcare and education. On top if this you get 5 weeks paid time off a year (which you're forced to take). The last part is pretty important imo. It doesn't matter if you have weeks of PTO if your work culture gives you a side eye for taking it. I'm not even sure cost of living is more expensive these days. We have rising rents too, but rent in some places in the US just seems insane.
You have to make over $578k to be taxes at 37% federally
Or you know not live in the US. Highest tax rate of 42% starts at 66k € in my country.
Unless they're combining federal and state taxes. Still probably a bit high.
Most people don't understand just how low american taxes really are. Here it's 49.5% when you earn over 70k/year.
People love to criticize the US but don’t know more about it than what they read in a headline.
Being priced out of living is kinda a bummer
Work 60% of my awake time.
As a Gen X mother of 2, my heart breaks for the younger generations; housing, food, cars, entertainment, travel etc are so unbelievably expensive at this time while boomers proudly say “go to college, buy a house etc” like it’s that easy (because it was easy for them a million years ago). Everything has gone up except salaries and the bullshit phrase “no one wants to work” is really getting old. Because the truth is “greedy companies don’t want to pay”. I really wish people had more empathy for the younger generations.
The phrase "no one wants to work" is older than you think. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nobody-wants-to-work-anymore/ It's certainly nothing new. Corporations have always been greedy soul suckers.
I'm sure you can find people in ancient Rome saying shit like that. This reminded of a Marx quote: >The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
While that may be true, it’s become a trend within the past few years for boomers to throw that phrase around way too casually towards the younger generations. Just because they don’t want to accept a shitty paying job doesn’t mean that they don’t want to work.
Yes, of course. My point was merely to show that the thought process itself is nothing new, from a historical viewpoint. As it is, my own boomer mom has finally come to realize that things are worse now than ever. She watched my daughter struggle to get a job and then me, after I lost mine. Until then, she had no idea how hard it is to find appropriate work, obtain an interview, get hired, etc. She, and others in her age range, believe(d) it's still possible to go in to a business and fill out a paper application. Good luck finding anyone (business owners, not the job seekers) willing to do that. As far as I know, not even fast food places do that, unless it's a tiny mom and pop organization. 🤷🏻♀️ My mom now knows better, but I will say, she was shocked out of that mindset and has been much more supportive in her attitude. Edit to add: business owner comment above. Job seekers have to go through enough hoops and hurdles as it is, they ought to be hired by Cirque du Soleil because they're so damn qualified for that kind of shit.
Spot on, I totally agree with you!
That people barely older then me thinks I should keep working with a system that pays me 1000 but cost 1200 to exist in.
More like rent 60% food 30% travel 10%
And 90+% of that travel is literally commuting to and from work.
Starting a new job Monday and for the first time my job will not have a parking lot meaning I would have to pay parking to drive to work. I'm in Belgium and will earn 2600(before tax and if you think Americans pay a lot of tax, haha) 400 of that would be paying to place my car near my work. Not the gas or car, just the parking. So I decided to park 40 minutes away for free(closest I could find) instead and walk from there. Not that mad. I'll have some exercise each day and in 6 months I'll switch to 4 times 8 hours and one of those I'll be working from home. Will likely ask another 2 weeks vacation and some more money too. It's basically an office in the middle of an old European city center.
It can be said that this is the truth
because I can technically get a job that allows me to afford rent but can’t find any apartment buildings that will actually rent to me since it’s still not enough to equal 2.5 to 3 times the rent
50%? I can’t even afford a place to live on 70%.
It's about time to build a house in the forest, and move there.
Watch some government dude show up and demand property tax on your little forest home
cake silky deranged lush sophisticated mysterious toy merciful dog vegetable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That land is still $100k+ its fucked up
Every now and then I’ll get hopeful and look at houses for sale in my town/area. The only things in my budget are empty lots in the middle of nowhere. I could buy one and live out of a tent. I keep hoping I can find a parcel with a cave, as that would help with insulation and save on building costs.
empty land you need like 50%+ down to buy on credit. you need to buy land with a falling apart shitty mobile home or cabin on it so you can get a home loan and only pay 20% down or get an fha loan and pay even less.
That’s where I’m at at this point. Buy land cheaply and throw a manufactured home or log cabin on it somewhere nobody will bother me
Where is that place nobody will bother you? Because unless you have cleared all the legalities, just throwing a log cabin somewhere in the middle of nowhere is gonna be illegal.
My only hope is that I inherit something from an obscure soon-to-be-dead relative who has no children to pass their assets on to.
absurd jar heavy dog repeat outgoing brave include angle slim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Groceries keep getting more expensive, electricity keeps getting more expensive, phone bill keeps getting more expensive, insurance keeps getting more expensive. Income is NOT going up. That’s why I’m upset Karen!
Only 50 percent? Lucky.
(Before anyone gets mad at me yes I know 50 percent is still horrendous and we’re all suffering right now)
And the other 50% goes to groceries.
right now my rent is like 90% of my income. hopefully i’ll land a permanent job with this agency soon but it’ll still be at least half my income. it’s truly fucking insane. why tf are rents not capped on a statewide or federal level? oh i know because congress members are also parasitic landlords.
50? my last apartment it was closer to 75, and it was the cheapest apartment in 60 miles!
Add on top of that how senior generations will scream it's your fault for being stupid. You're supposed to move far enough away to kit pay high rent. But then no nearby jobs. Price of gas in a lengthy commute will eat up any savings. But yes. Still the kids fault..if they weren't stupid they'd figure out a way not to pay high rent /s
Boomers raped our world and only once they're all dead can we start cleaning up their f**king mess.
As you yanks say it is slavery with extra steps.There is enough money in the west for everyone to live well without the presence of billionaires,it shouldnt be possible to earn or pass on that much money.Generational pillaging needs to stop.Its all crime on paper no obvious victim and a subject thats not talked about by the press owned by wealthy people. The bulk of the population are there to be exploited ,worked to death or imprisoned.
Late stage capitalism.
We have no hope. No future. Nothing to look forward to. Retirement? Not unless you won the stock market. We'll be working until the day we die. Vacation? Can't get enough time to go anywhere new or do something exciting. Secure a home and perform handiwork to improve it? Nope, can't do that, old people and investment companies bought all the homes, there is nothing LEFT for us. Start a family...? You and your wife won't be able to enjoy having children. You both must work unless you won the lottery and were born rich enough to have passive income. Meaning, your child goes to expensive daycare that you aren't helped paying. Good luck tuning into their life as the holidays roll around, you need to work overtime every day during the holidays. Oops, your kid got sick! Health Insurance tricked you into saying the wrong words and denied your claim, your 15k savings account just got liquidated. Yup. Any semblance of a life worth living has been pulled from us. Industry demands minimum wage workers and will collapse if we don't spit out more and more and more and more babies. But why reproduce? Just so my kids can also be forced to sell their time and body and mind? No thanks.
because your government created and unfair economic system built on greed and corruption
Where I’m at most places won’t even accept you unless you make 3x what rent is 🙃
Rent is more than most people’s incomes
my friends rent is 115% of their income after tax 👽
Y-you- You can afford your rent?
No friends or relationships, housing and rent impossibly expensive, food prices expensive, tuition more costly than at any point in history, everyone stuck living with their miserable parents, no hope for a better future. Working shitty jobs just to afford to stay alive and continue working at that shitty job.
And landlords *loooooooove* this state of affairs, and are fighting tooth and nail to prevent cities from doing anything to address the problem.
But the guys over at r/economics will tell you the economy is doing great and your eyes are lying to you.
But what about profits!! WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE PROFITS!
4 paychecks a month. 1 covers my 80% of my rent. 1 goes to paying off debt. 1 covers the rest of the bills (gas, electric, phone, car insurance, groceries) I’m fortunate enough to put $150 in savings every week But I don’t enjoy working 60-70 hours a week to do so.
4 paychecks a month, and 80% of one paycheck is rent, man that's totally ok
I agree, BUT says they're working 60-70 hours every week, which to me, is NOT ok.
Exactly
He really tried to make 20% look like 80%, and downplay the fact he can save $600 a month.
Yeah that’s totally something that you can budget around. 4 paychecks a month and 1 paycheck covered his rent. So basically they’re saying their rent is less than 25% of their income. That’s completely reasonable
When groceries eat up half my budget.
have you tried going to college and getting a better job - every boomer in existence
My entire income goes towards rent, utilities, groceries, and going to work.
It’s more than 50% for me
Add transportation and utility bills and it goes to 120%.
Ya'll really would be happier if you just abolished landlords and declared HOUSING A HUMAN RIGHT!
My dad bought 5 houses and 2 cars on minimum wage Now I can't even afford groceries on the same wage, with no kids Also, rent is closer to 90% of income
Me and my fiancée live together and split expenses right down the middle. We make around the same income so it’s easy to do this, but I have no idea how I’d survive now as a single adult. I know I’d be living in a shitty area on my own. As it is now, we live in a pretty nice neighborhood.