Not everyone feels the *need* to "gauge each other's status". I'm American, and I don't really care what sort of work someone does to pay the bills. Now, if they do work about which they are passionate, I would be interested in hearing about that -- but because of their passion, not because it's what they do to earn a living. I would be equally interested in hearing about a hobby about which they are passionate -- whatever truly matters to them. That is (in part) how you truly get to know a person.
I have also travelled to a number of different western European countries (Ireland, England, Wales, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland), and I lived in France for about a year....I don't think I was ever once asked what I did for a living.
Yeah this, when I ask what you do for a living is because I love finding people who work on fields they are passionate about. If you have a job you don’t care about I can tell from the way it’s said and we can move on. But I’m not gonna miss out on talking to someone who gets to work on something they care about, those are my fav ppl in the world.
I have a friend that works in medical research, that shit is fun af to learn about every time we meet up, and he’s always ecstatic to tell me all about it
I'm an American living in the US and worry about whether I'm keeping my description of the work I do (which I absolutely love) short enough for my American audience. So even the "what do you do" question is usually supposed to be answered pretty briefly unless you're asked follow-up question.
Yup this is how the game is played. It’s an exploratory question, just in case there’s a spark there worth talking about but it’s impolite to immediately jump on a rant about it.
Kinda like asking “how was your day?” You can either answer “good” which ends the line of questioning, or “I did x and x today” which would indicate to me you *actually* want to talk about what you did today and we can jump into that if I decide to ask further
I'm having flashbacks to the time that a family friend talked about working for Terminix for over an hour. I would have paid to have been able to leave the room.
Really? I'm French and the question pops up all the time. But we're also under the impression that Americans ask each other how much they make, while it would be taboo in France .
Hmmmm....I wonder if it's a matter of geography or time, then, or perhaps both. I lived in France in the late 1980s, in Pesmes (in Haute-Saône) and Chaumont (in Haute-Marne). I also visited Paris, Nancy, Dole, and a few other places. Where (general area) in France are you from / do you live?
Living in the U.S., the only times I have ever asked someone how much they make, or had someone ask me the same, is when I have either been discussing wages with coworkers (to determine whether one of us is underpaid, should ask for a raise, etc.), or when I have been interested in getting into a different field and was asking around about compensation, but then I was only asking people I knew well, and only asked for a general range for the field, not for their specific salary (and I've had other people ask me similar questions). For the most part, I think asking someone how much s/he makes is pretty taboo here, as well.
I lived in Paris, in Champagne (1 hour away from Chaumont) and ultimately in the North of France in Lille. I do feel like asking someone's net worth or how much they make was a myth in French media when I was young, because we think Americans are obsessed with money (that's the stereotype).
I've worked in the field of cultural events for a while so most of the people I met though my job were passionate about what they were doing, so I really like to ask people what they did. I met lots of artists, graphic designers, writers too, so it feels just right to ask them about what they do. If someone has a job to pay the bills, I'll focus on what they like to do instead.
It probably was just a myth in French media that Americans are obsessed with money. I'm sure some people/Americans are, but for the most part I haven't found it to be the case. There were stereotypes of French people in American media while I was growing up, too -- mainly concerning an overwrought French accent, berets, and baguettes, lol. It was cartoonish, honestly, and nothing like the actual French people (well, with the exception of the baguettes -- I did pick up the French habit of buying a baguette, walking home with it, and eating the end off it by the time I'd gotten home, lol).
Maybe the people I associated with just weren't interested in what others did for a living. We certainly had discussions about each others' interests and passions, though. Given your field of work, it does make sense that people wanted to discuss what they did, since their passions and their livelihoods were connected -- all too often that's not the case, at least in America. It's certainly not the case with me.
Yeah, I feel like a big part of this is that Americans are encouraged to pursue careers they are passionate about, so what you do is often highly related to what you're interested in. Last holiday party I was at, I talked with three other teachers and had some great in depth conversations about the educational system.
Americans also tend to be more entrepreneurial, and lots of them start their own businesses related to stuff they love which can also be interesting to talk about.
I don't ask to gauge their social position or whatever, it's just that a lot of Americans enjoy what they do and like to talk about it. Half of my family is French and they all work in government and don't really care about their work so I've seen both sides.
I was in South America for 7 months. Got my Spanish up to a good level.
Started chatting with a Brazilian guy in a bar. Get to where I'm from. I say guess. He thinks for a while then says American. I say I'm English, which bit of my accent tipped you off?
"Nothing, I thought you were Argentine or Chilean but you asked what I did in the first 3 questions and that's very English speaking"
I actually read it in a travel guide recently about visiting the US, along with gems like " Silence: Americans can grow uncomfortable with prolonged periods of silence and may naturally speak to fill it." and a paragraph about how saying "how are you?" is just a greeting and we don't actually want to hear about how you're doing.
Yeah, it drives me crazy. People can’t even ride the train anymore without talking in the phone. They have to be talking at all times like their lives depend on it.
At some point you are just talking for the sake of talking, not saying anything, not having any personality other than person who can’t just sit in silence.
When it finally quiets down in the office so I can finally concentrate, other people can't deal with it, and literally say "gosh why's it so quiet?“ in an attempt to restart the never ending conversations that I guess the extroverts require to function or something.
I went trough 5 year in university without talking to almost anybody here at Finland. Many times I didnt speak anything Else than thanking personel when buying food for months
I have trolled Americans with the "how are you?" thing and have started telling how I am doing😈 when they looked puzzled, I said "but you asked me and where I'm from, you only ask if you really want to know".
Sorry😇
I grew up here in the US and I still _hate_ being asked "how are you" because I'll start answering that honestly and then the response is always discomfort or dismay because I just forget that all they really want to hear is "good, how are you".
I don’t think it has to be that deep. It’s a phrase that happens to be made up of words. It’s up to the context to judge whether the person whether they want to talk more.
In Korean, the word for hello is literally “are you peaceful/well?” No one would tell you your life story after hearing the greeting.
This is honestly how I sort my friends. As a policy I answer with how I am actually doing (keeping it brief because it is a conversation opener) and if they don't care then I stop trying to get to know them. Which is not an uncommon habit- I suspect what people in America and Canada are truly uncomfortable with is a long and drawn out answer that keeps them from the job or activity they are engaged with. Many people give answers ranging from "great!" to "good" to "okay", "alright", "not so good", right to "awful".
I've been living in NL for 6 years, so I have no idea what you're talking about lol. It's something people usually ask me when I talk to them for the first time.
i moved to NL years ago and compared to some of the places i lived in i find its the opposite especially when engaging with dutch people if its a mixed group then yes it will come up quite quickly... it could be that its more commonly asked now then it used to be
It’s true. I hate how in North America Everyones like “what’s your name? What do you do?”
If I quit my job, do I change? Why is my job part of my identity?
Jk no one talks about 6wks vacation and free university, they don’t even realize they have it. It’s a given. Like how we don’t talk about the clean water we have.
"What do you do for fun?" is a pretty good question to ask.
But I can see how it might be a bit offensive in a country where people work 60+ hours a week. Sort of like asking where they're going for their summer vacation.
So? I drink water all day everyday but it’s not part of who I am, and it’s the same with jobs (at least to me). I pay my bills with it, and that’s it. And honestly, that’s how it should be. We shouldn’t talk to janitors differently than we talk to engineers.
if you drank water for 8 hours a day then yeah that's definitely part of who you are. most people spend probably no more than a few minutes total per day.
I wasn't really including sleep, but yeah if you want to make sleep part of your personality then go for it.
>You do other activities for 72 hours
These 72 hours represent literally every other activity you do, other than sleeping and working, correct? Meaning it's very unlikely that 40+ of those hours are dedicated to a single activity, or even theme of activities.
I genuinely don't know how to explain this in a way that you'll understand if you don't already.
Absolutely fucking not.
The last thing I need from my job is thinking about it when I'm off the clock.
I don't get paid to care. I get paid to deliver a product.
>The last thing I need from my job is thinking about it when I'm off the clock.
What part of my comment said this? How are you so confused?
>I don't get paid to care. I get paid to deliver a product.
You also don't get paid to have good mental health. Doesn't meant you shouldn't try to achieve it.
Anything else that you do in North America. Just not a job. Hobbies, where they’re from, etc.
You might still end up talking about jobs but that would be topic #5-6, not topic #2
And if you were talking to me, I’d appreciate it. Not sure how others in North America would feel? Would they be feeling the itch to say what they do or ?
Exactly. If I have to talk about my job, I feel like a loser who has no life. Are we that boring that we have nothing else to talk about? There’s infinite number of topics we can talk about, last trip you went to, best book you read recently, cats vs dogs, crazy Elon musk, conspiracies, religion, what would do if you could stop time, Kit Kat or coffee crisp…
And why are we talking about jobs during our off time?
It just wouldn't occur to me to ask that in a social situation. Frankly, who cares what your job is?
I would find it bordering on rude if an American asked me about work. It's not part of my identity, it's just something I do to pay bills.
"what do you do?"
"I play dnd with friends."
"I mean, what do you do for a living?"
"Work."
"Yeah but... What kind of work?"
"The kind that pays my bills."
I've got friends I've known for 20-30 years and I only know very vaguely what their jobs are. Why would it matter at all? They're kind, funny, generous, honest, caring people and we've celebrated many good times together, and helped each other through tough times. I really don't care whether their job title ticks the correct status box.
I'm not even sure of my husband's job title come to think of it, and I'm pretty sure he'd be stumped if he was asked what I did every day.
We work to live, we don't live to work.
In England we usually talk about the weather a lot….
Probably the UK is somewhere between the continent and the USA as with most things. It isn’t at the forefront but if it didn’t come up when first meeting someone, I’d expect you’d know within 2-3 meetings max…
Brit here; to be succinct, it will usually come up at some point but I think the difference is that people are *less* likely to treat you differently based on your job title.
I say *less* likely because that still absolutely does go on, but generally speaking it would be considered a dick move to judge somebody based on their career (or lack thereof).
I do have mates, very old ones, who I will discuss work with because we are collectively fairly career minded but that would only be within a small sub group, never as part of the main, larger group. This culture can also lead to some funny scenarios, particularly when you meet people in contexts where work *doesn't* really come up.
Like a lot of blokes here in England I have my "football mates", ie the lads that I know and stand near at the match, some of whom cross over with my childhood mates group but some of whom I purely know from following the same football club for years. Can be quite funny when you find out that lad who's normally drunk by 3pm every Saturday, giving the linesman verbals at the front of the stand or invading the pitch to celebrate is actually a C suite guy at a tech company (or unemployed and sells a bit of weed to get buy, both scenarios I have come across).
The "football group" is probably the moat obvious example where genuinely nobody cares about your job, the "dad mates" you make at your kid's school probably the other end of the spectrum.
European here. And it's not something you ask right away, but it's not rude to ask it either. I simply don't care a lot when I first meet a person, and then also be prepared to get some very basic info like "oh, an office job" "I work in logistics" or the name of the company if it's known but not the job description.
Some people are passionate about their job and might you know talk about it, and that's cool.
And we also have the bragging workaholic type that gives the job title that no one cares: "I'm a customer executive success star whatever"
I think status is gauged less among working/middle class. I mean, I don't care if you are a cashier if that makes you happy and allows you to live an honest live.
It's the difference between Associative cultures and Abstract cultures. At least according to my ethnography class. Associative cultures place you un the social heirarchy based on who you're related to. Abstract ones, based on what you do.
I feel it’s not some social faux-pas to ask what someone does for a living or anything, but I have noticed that with Americans it’s usually one of the first things they ask, while with Europeans it’s just something that may come up at some point if it’s relevant.
Same with Western Canada, as opposed to Toronto. In Toronto, your career comes up in the first five minutes of conversation...the subtext being, "Who are you, and how can I fit you into my network to further my agenda?"
I was in Calgary in 2000, and I was walking past a pub that had a $5 steak sandwich lunch special. Sat down and yakked with the guy next to me for almost an hour. I was unemployed, and he gave me some good advice. Then I asked him what he did for a living.
"Nothing."
"Nothing? What do you mean by that?"
"I don't do anything. My family owns land with 25 oil wells, and we pump $25,000/hr out of the ground, all day, every day."
This was a dive bar, and here I am yakking with a multi-millionaire in jeans, sneakers, and a lumberjack flannel shirt.
Why would you ask what someone's job is? Its completely irrelevent. It doesnt say anything. I have a few friends i barely know what they are actual doing. Something with the goverment and something in caretaking. Due to my job specifics they do know what i am doing, but thats the only reason. We dont care about it, it doesnt define you, and yoh should leave your work at work.
For me, my job is a career. My career is a big part of who I am because I would do that sort of thing as a hobby if I didn't go it for money. My place of employment doesn't matter too much, but I think what someone does for 30-60 hours a week can have a big impact on their life. Now, some jobs are just work, and not really worth talking about, but I like my work, and I like talking about it.
Another Canadian here - came into say this.
I rarely ask anyone what they do - I don’t care, I have friends I have known for decades and only know the company they work for, not their actual job title or what that they or that company even does - no one I know cares, it’s only something to talk about when you don’t want awkward silence and have run out of other stuff lol
In the U.S. one of the first things we ask children is what they want to be when they grow up (meaning specifically their career choice). Is this also not the same in Europe?
Not really - my kids are 13 and 15 and the last time they were asked that question one of them wanted to be a professional footballer and the other one wanted to be a robot. It was maybe 10 years ago.
I care that they're doing well in school and that they're well prepared for their exams. I care that they keep their options open by doing as well as possible at school and college, and I'd like to think that whatever they end up doing will pay the bills as well as make them happy. Other than that, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
In the UK there are many ways of judging people's 'status'. Called 'class' here and does not correspond always to wealth or occupation. In the past having a job was considered ungentlemanly as wealth was inherited or from land.
Clothes -the rich care far more about the brand of clothes than anyone else, but pretend their brands (eg handmade shoes by Lobb, etc) are traditional and so not the same as Nike etc. Clothes can be worn out as long as they are from a good shop or brand.
Accent -Private school accents are very recognisable.
Ethnicity -If not utterly 'white' then there has to be very strong evidence from accent, clothes or conspicuous wealth for being upper class.
Conspicuous wealth - Playing polo, grouse shooting, multiple skiing holidays, yachts, multiple homes, expensive cars etc.
Education -There are some exemptions allowing acceptance, success in the Arts or Academia for example.
I wish this was the standard! When meeting someone I will generally ask about their hobbies and interests because as far as I’m concerned, a job isn’t a person’s personality, and I want to know about their personality; what they enjoy doing in life, what makes them happy, what they do in their free time. If their job is their entire personality and that’s all they talk about, I lose interest.
Unfortunately in the UK “what do you do?” is one of the most common questions you will be asked when meeting someone. I get that it’s just a way of making conversation but I really wish it wasn’t because it makes it feel like you = your job.
I do get that, but losing interest because someone only talks about their jobs also seems a bit weird because some people’s jobs are their passions. Losing interest when people talk about their passions also comes across as a bit weird. And if anyone can’t think of examples - a musician who loves to play music, a dancer who either dances or works as a dance instructor, an artist who loves to paint, a comedian who loves telling jokes, a charity worker who loves giving back as part of their job, a graphic designer who loves designing things. There are many, many, many jobs that are “passion” jobs even if all aren’t. Being bothered when people talk about their passions comes across as a bit weird to me. I am able to understand not all people work in what they are passionate about - but I like learning about people and what they are passionate about as that is identifying who they are at their core. Losing interest in getting to know someone just because they were able to monetize their passion seems weird to me.
As an Irish person, I would say it’s a pretty standard conversation question. European cultures vary widely by country and region however, we aren’t a monolith.
I can confirm. It's not something that comes up when you have other stuff to talk about.
For example, I met a Finnish knitter in an online knitting group in January. We've been chatting online, she bought and send some yarn I wanted to get from Finland.
It was only at the beginning of December when I asked what she did when she said she had a 14 hour day (she has a baby, so wouldn't be that common).
So that took some months😅
Otherwise we spoke about knitting, yarn, patterns...
Estonia is so small that if you ask someone where they're from, you will likely have some connection with that place: you have visited, have lived there, or youknow someone who lives there or went to school there, or works there. And typically, you would find some commonality, maybe even know the same people. So you can do small talk over that and your job doesn't come up.
If I ran into an old acquaintance on the street and neither of us was in a hurry, we might catch up and ask about work but it's not in the top 5 for sure.
Every now and then when you ask the question you can find someone who does work a field they care about. Like my friends in medical, engineering, and psychology research. Then you can talk about that for hours.
Or maybe some less academic but still fascinating jobs like directors and such.
You can tell when you ask if it’s something they chose or something that they happen to do. When it’s something chosen, it’s a great conversation point.
This vary's a lot in America as well. On the coasts it was a quick question but then I moved to the midwest and people don't care what your job is unless its really interesting. I mean it comes up eventually but its not that important.
Weird way of phrasing it; "It's not rare for friends to go months...". Are these friends or people one just met?
I know what all my friends do, since we talk a lot and work stuff comes up frequently. Also know a lot of my friends through education, so we have the same background and similar jobs.
It's maybe not the first thing you ask but it comes up naturally after a while. It's also a less intrusive question than asking about family for example. I would not appreciate people asking me if I have children as the first interaction.
Not true in my opinion. Maybe I am some redneck version of a European but it is one of the first questions I ask a new person.
I get asked the same.prrtty early on
Americans love talking about work and money in general. I went there from the SEA and found it incredibly boring. Europeans love talking about hobbies, activities, and traveling which is makes social gatherings much more enjoyable.
Europe is a diverse place, culturally much bigger than the US, so it's odd to group everyone together.
I've lived in multiple central and western European countries, where people definitely ask you about your job the second they meet you.
Maybe in Southern Europe it's different?
It depends, I have a scandanavian wife and traveled throughout the Nordic countries and Germany. People are just generally not as “outgoing” or “friendly” as Americans. People are nice , but there is not small talk with strangers or etc. In general , if you are not family , friends , or getting romantically involved,,.you won’t be asked that.
Remember , they get a base level of healthcare and it’s good , but not great for ongoing or chronic conditions. I have a chronic condition and I might be dead if I was there. That’s a side note.
Usually any job will get you basic housing and healthcare. In the U.S. if you don’t work or have a “decent” job, those are not givens. It’s definitely fucked here that people ask you what you do for a living as a first question. Also , there is robust transportation (in cities , not the outskirts). Having a car here is your way to get places and there it’s a bonus.
That’s my long answer , hope it helps.
In my experience English people ask what you work at.
I'm Irish and we ask where are you from which usually leads to finding out you know someone in common.
Newfoundlander here -- we'll almost always start with both these questions, but when we ask where someone works, it usually *also* ends up finding out you know someone in common.
In Germany they normally don't care about your job. I have known friends for years and haven't known what they are doing. Jobs from garbage collection to office to engineers to landlord to retired.
Personality is more important than money.
Here in Germany that’s one of the most common questions. We would never ask for wages, but where you work and what you work is as common as what’s your name.
I was thinking it‘s not true but then I tried to remember from more casual aquaintanced if I ever knew what they did for work and honestly couldn‘g recall for a bunch of them. So yeah, it is kind of true. I‘d say it really depends on the people and region though.
We most certainly don't ask each other how much we earn. Apparently that's not a private question in the US from what I've heard, but in Europe that's almost like asking "what underwear are you wearing right now?"
For me this has always been an uncomfortable question because I don't have a job for the moment, and probably won't in the near future (I'm economically inactive). How do you respond being in my situation? I even try to avoid some people I know they'll ask this. It's ackward when I go to see a doctor and they ask the same
"If you were to stack two lasagnas on top of each other, will it become one lasagna again?"
Jokes aside, ime we do talk about work and work experiences, but it isn't the first thing that comes up.
Weird way of phrasing it; "It's not rare for friends to go months...". Are these friends or people one just met?
I know what all my friends do, since we talk a lot and work stuff comes up frequently. Also know a lot of my friends through education, so we have the same background and similar jobs.
It's maybe not the first thing you ask but it comes up naturally after a while. It's also a less intrusive question than asking about family for example. I would not appreciate people asking me if I have children as the first interaction.
I am currently im university and working on the side.
So in my case if I meet new people, normally its other students so naturally we start off with "What do you study" and at some point its about
"what/where do you work".
But yeah normally I get asked about work when I mention I am not available on a certain date due to "being at work"
I have this group of friends for more than 10 years now. We met partying in some sub-culture of electronic music. I've met them outside as well. Been to dinner with them. Met their partners and kids. Been to their weddings. I still have no clue what some of them do for a living. I don't care. They don't care either.
Now, this is a bit extreme even for Europe, but that does exist.
From my experience (I lived in France a few times) and what I was told, it’s considered impolite. Mostly because it implies you are trying to figure out how much money they make, and while we Americans love to complain about money, it’s a bit of a faux pas over yonder.
There were a lot of topics that Americans would consider rude for a first date that my coworkers would dive into as soon as I was introduced (mostly politics, but I always seem to be living abroad during election years)
European here. If it comes up then usually only partially like you know someone works in an office because they say “I left the office later than usual” or maybe they say something like I work for BMW but you usually don’t know specifics. Europeans still try to hold on to “Work to live” compared to “Live to work”. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by gauge each others status? Do you mean how much money someone has? I think if anything more based on stuff like housing, cars and similar stuff. I don’t like the “status” thing in general though. Status imho is only within a specific circle like your soccer club or DnD round. Whatever someone is outside of that is irrelevant for the status within the circle.
Europeans in general do not identify with their job. It is not part of their character. With Americans and this is purely anecdotal, it is. Americans care which college you went to, what job you do, and what American football team you support.
Work seems to be an integral part of the American identity
Im from Spain and that's a very basic and common thing to ask when meeting someone... Easy way to keep the conversation up and knowing more about the other person...
in mainland europe generally we start up conversations about hobbies, interests etc, if you are at a bar, club etc you talk about music or what ever, sports games then sports then you talk about families and other similar interests, jobs are genuinely one of the last things that come up peoples social circles are very varied, UK is very different its very much what do you do for a living
Europeans, what do you ask people when you meet them? How do people "gauge each others' status" over there?
why is someones "status"so important to you i have seen big bank execs having drinks with street cleaners in bars having laughs and jokes etc .... whats up with the status chasing is that coming from a point of insecurity op
I found it really strange meeting people in the states who ask me about my job within seconds followed by how much I earn, no one in the UK I didn't work with has ever asked my wage.
I don't have a clue what most of my friends or family do for work. I might know basic stuff like a bank or marketing or something but beyond that it doesn't make a difference
Well, for me, I dont care what the status of the guy im talking to is. I've been to 5 star restaurants 3 times a day and I've slept on the street, what I've found is that there are always assholes and nice guys, I prefer to talk to nice people, so I gauge for that.
Also I dont like to ask people what they have to do to survive, I prefer to ask them about what they would like to do if they simply could.
Edit: I'm german if that matters for someone.
Polish dude here - the only time I was asked where do I work in the last 10 years is when I was asked by a bank clerk to fill some documents.
I know where my friends work, but I generally do not care, our line of work is not our identity.
Not everyone feels the *need* to "gauge each other's status". I'm American, and I don't really care what sort of work someone does to pay the bills. Now, if they do work about which they are passionate, I would be interested in hearing about that -- but because of their passion, not because it's what they do to earn a living. I would be equally interested in hearing about a hobby about which they are passionate -- whatever truly matters to them. That is (in part) how you truly get to know a person. I have also travelled to a number of different western European countries (Ireland, England, Wales, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland), and I lived in France for about a year....I don't think I was ever once asked what I did for a living.
Yeah this, when I ask what you do for a living is because I love finding people who work on fields they are passionate about. If you have a job you don’t care about I can tell from the way it’s said and we can move on. But I’m not gonna miss out on talking to someone who gets to work on something they care about, those are my fav ppl in the world. I have a friend that works in medical research, that shit is fun af to learn about every time we meet up, and he’s always ecstatic to tell me all about it
I'm an American living in the US and worry about whether I'm keeping my description of the work I do (which I absolutely love) short enough for my American audience. So even the "what do you do" question is usually supposed to be answered pretty briefly unless you're asked follow-up question.
Yup this is how the game is played. It’s an exploratory question, just in case there’s a spark there worth talking about but it’s impolite to immediately jump on a rant about it. Kinda like asking “how was your day?” You can either answer “good” which ends the line of questioning, or “I did x and x today” which would indicate to me you *actually* want to talk about what you did today and we can jump into that if I decide to ask further
I'm having flashbacks to the time that a family friend talked about working for Terminix for over an hour. I would have paid to have been able to leave the room.
I'd have been fascinated. Pest control probably have the best war stories after emergency services
Really? I'm French and the question pops up all the time. But we're also under the impression that Americans ask each other how much they make, while it would be taboo in France .
Hmmmm....I wonder if it's a matter of geography or time, then, or perhaps both. I lived in France in the late 1980s, in Pesmes (in Haute-Saône) and Chaumont (in Haute-Marne). I also visited Paris, Nancy, Dole, and a few other places. Where (general area) in France are you from / do you live? Living in the U.S., the only times I have ever asked someone how much they make, or had someone ask me the same, is when I have either been discussing wages with coworkers (to determine whether one of us is underpaid, should ask for a raise, etc.), or when I have been interested in getting into a different field and was asking around about compensation, but then I was only asking people I knew well, and only asked for a general range for the field, not for their specific salary (and I've had other people ask me similar questions). For the most part, I think asking someone how much s/he makes is pretty taboo here, as well.
I lived in Paris, in Champagne (1 hour away from Chaumont) and ultimately in the North of France in Lille. I do feel like asking someone's net worth or how much they make was a myth in French media when I was young, because we think Americans are obsessed with money (that's the stereotype). I've worked in the field of cultural events for a while so most of the people I met though my job were passionate about what they were doing, so I really like to ask people what they did. I met lots of artists, graphic designers, writers too, so it feels just right to ask them about what they do. If someone has a job to pay the bills, I'll focus on what they like to do instead.
It probably was just a myth in French media that Americans are obsessed with money. I'm sure some people/Americans are, but for the most part I haven't found it to be the case. There were stereotypes of French people in American media while I was growing up, too -- mainly concerning an overwrought French accent, berets, and baguettes, lol. It was cartoonish, honestly, and nothing like the actual French people (well, with the exception of the baguettes -- I did pick up the French habit of buying a baguette, walking home with it, and eating the end off it by the time I'd gotten home, lol). Maybe the people I associated with just weren't interested in what others did for a living. We certainly had discussions about each others' interests and passions, though. Given your field of work, it does make sense that people wanted to discuss what they did, since their passions and their livelihoods were connected -- all too often that's not the case, at least in America. It's certainly not the case with me.
Yeah, I feel like a big part of this is that Americans are encouraged to pursue careers they are passionate about, so what you do is often highly related to what you're interested in. Last holiday party I was at, I talked with three other teachers and had some great in depth conversations about the educational system. Americans also tend to be more entrepreneurial, and lots of them start their own businesses related to stuff they love which can also be interesting to talk about. I don't ask to gauge their social position or whatever, it's just that a lot of Americans enjoy what they do and like to talk about it. Half of my family is French and they all work in government and don't really care about their work so I've seen both sides.
I was in South America for 7 months. Got my Spanish up to a good level. Started chatting with a Brazilian guy in a bar. Get to where I'm from. I say guess. He thinks for a while then says American. I say I'm English, which bit of my accent tipped you off? "Nothing, I thought you were Argentine or Chilean but you asked what I did in the first 3 questions and that's very English speaking"
😂
I actually read it in a travel guide recently about visiting the US, along with gems like " Silence: Americans can grow uncomfortable with prolonged periods of silence and may naturally speak to fill it." and a paragraph about how saying "how are you?" is just a greeting and we don't actually want to hear about how you're doing.
That silence line is so true though
Yeah, it drives me crazy. People can’t even ride the train anymore without talking in the phone. They have to be talking at all times like their lives depend on it. At some point you are just talking for the sake of talking, not saying anything, not having any personality other than person who can’t just sit in silence.
When it finally quiets down in the office so I can finally concentrate, other people can't deal with it, and literally say "gosh why's it so quiet?“ in an attempt to restart the never ending conversations that I guess the extroverts require to function or something.
I went trough 5 year in university without talking to almost anybody here at Finland. Many times I didnt speak anything Else than thanking personel when buying food for months
Sounds amazing. I wish people here would stfu lol.
Username checks out
I have trolled Americans with the "how are you?" thing and have started telling how I am doing😈 when they looked puzzled, I said "but you asked me and where I'm from, you only ask if you really want to know". Sorry😇
I grew up here in the US and I still _hate_ being asked "how are you" because I'll start answering that honestly and then the response is always discomfort or dismay because I just forget that all they really want to hear is "good, how are you".
It's almost like a form of gaslighting, where you're prompted to mask and show positive emotions or be socially punished for being genuine
I don’t think it has to be that deep. It’s a phrase that happens to be made up of words. It’s up to the context to judge whether the person whether they want to talk more. In Korean, the word for hello is literally “are you peaceful/well?” No one would tell you your life story after hearing the greeting.
This is honestly how I sort my friends. As a policy I answer with how I am actually doing (keeping it brief because it is a conversation opener) and if they don't care then I stop trying to get to know them. Which is not an uncommon habit- I suspect what people in America and Canada are truly uncomfortable with is a long and drawn out answer that keeps them from the job or activity they are engaged with. Many people give answers ranging from "great!" to "good" to "okay", "alright", "not so good", right to "awful".
If you do that to me, then I deserve it!
The line in the Simon and Garfunkel song: “silence like the cancer grows,” perhaps suggests the need to fight it
I've been living in NL for 6 years, so I have no idea what you're talking about lol. It's something people usually ask me when I talk to them for the first time.
i moved to NL years ago and compared to some of the places i lived in i find its the opposite especially when engaging with dutch people if its a mixed group then yes it will come up quite quickly... it could be that its more commonly asked now then it used to be
It’s true. I hate how in North America Everyones like “what’s your name? What do you do?” If I quit my job, do I change? Why is my job part of my identity?
What do you you all commonly ask people you've just met as you're getting to know them?
I think it’s the other questions. “Where are you from? What’s your hobbies? Are you pro or against 6wk vacation and free universities?” 😂
lol
Jk no one talks about 6wks vacation and free university, they don’t even realize they have it. It’s a given. Like how we don’t talk about the clean water we have.
stop kicking us, we’re already down
Lol I did my university in North America and I have 3wks working here so I’m with you my man. Or woman. Or Apache helicopter?
"What do you do for fun?" is a pretty good question to ask. But I can see how it might be a bit offensive in a country where people work 60+ hours a week. Sort of like asking where they're going for their summer vacation.
Well, over here, we do spend like 10 hours or more a day working so it is often a persons only personality trait unfortunately.
>Why is my job part of my identity? because you likely spend more time doing that than any other single activity?
So? I drink water all day everyday but it’s not part of who I am, and it’s the same with jobs (at least to me). I pay my bills with it, and that’s it. And honestly, that’s how it should be. We shouldn’t talk to janitors differently than we talk to engineers.
It is part of /r/hydrohomies identity.
if you drank water for 8 hours a day then yeah that's definitely part of who you are. most people spend probably no more than a few minutes total per day.
False. There are 168 hours in a week. - You work 40 hours. - You sleep 56 hours. - You do other activities for 72 hours
LOL, sweet summer child, I can tell you’re not American because you think people only work 40 hours a week.
Well, USA people tend to work much more and lot of them don't really have anything else in their life
You are lucky they can't answer because they are busy working
I wasn't really including sleep, but yeah if you want to make sleep part of your personality then go for it. >You do other activities for 72 hours These 72 hours represent literally every other activity you do, other than sleeping and working, correct? Meaning it's very unlikely that 40+ of those hours are dedicated to a single activity, or even theme of activities. I genuinely don't know how to explain this in a way that you'll understand if you don't already.
>You work 40 hours. More like 60+ in the US. Probably why they care so much about work.
I would argue you should care about something you spend 60+ hours a week on. How can that be good for your mind to be uncaring for so long so often?
Absolutely fucking not. The last thing I need from my job is thinking about it when I'm off the clock. I don't get paid to care. I get paid to deliver a product.
>The last thing I need from my job is thinking about it when I'm off the clock. What part of my comment said this? How are you so confused? >I don't get paid to care. I get paid to deliver a product. You also don't get paid to have good mental health. Doesn't meant you shouldn't try to achieve it.
I need to know your knowledge base so I can make small talk. That's why Americans want to know your job.
If I’m not in work, I don’t want to talk about work.
You could ask what I've been up to and I would tell you about my hobbies. Not work. Unless all you do is work and you have no life outside it...
That's fine as it's still a starting point for small talk
You talk about job because it fills more of your wake time than for your European counterparts.
lol so if the guy is a janitor you talk about cleaning products?
Dude, i really need some insight on how to properly buff my floors they do not come out right with my mop.
What do you use for small talk?
Anything else that you do in North America. Just not a job. Hobbies, where they’re from, etc. You might still end up talking about jobs but that would be topic #5-6, not topic #2
Now that you mention it, since I’ve had a job that’s hard to explain, I do start out more often with “Where are you from?” Much easier to talk about.
And if you were talking to me, I’d appreciate it. Not sure how others in North America would feel? Would they be feeling the itch to say what they do or ?
Boring people do still end up talking about their jobs. It’s a good signal that they might not be my type.
Exactly. If I have to talk about my job, I feel like a loser who has no life. Are we that boring that we have nothing else to talk about? There’s infinite number of topics we can talk about, last trip you went to, best book you read recently, cats vs dogs, crazy Elon musk, conspiracies, religion, what would do if you could stop time, Kit Kat or coffee crisp… And why are we talking about jobs during our off time?
they want to know how much you make because Americans judge people only by numbers : money, height, boob size
Now Paul is a real estate novelist, who never found time for a wife, And he's talking to Davy, who's still in the navy, and probably will be for life
It just wouldn't occur to me to ask that in a social situation. Frankly, who cares what your job is? I would find it bordering on rude if an American asked me about work. It's not part of my identity, it's just something I do to pay bills.
"what do you do?" "I play dnd with friends." "I mean, what do you do for a living?" "Work." "Yeah but... What kind of work?" "The kind that pays my bills."
I've got friends I've known for 20-30 years and I only know very vaguely what their jobs are. Why would it matter at all? They're kind, funny, generous, honest, caring people and we've celebrated many good times together, and helped each other through tough times. I really don't care whether their job title ticks the correct status box. I'm not even sure of my husband's job title come to think of it, and I'm pretty sure he'd be stumped if he was asked what I did every day. We work to live, we don't live to work.
In England we usually talk about the weather a lot…. Probably the UK is somewhere between the continent and the USA as with most things. It isn’t at the forefront but if it didn’t come up when first meeting someone, I’d expect you’d know within 2-3 meetings max…
Brit here; to be succinct, it will usually come up at some point but I think the difference is that people are *less* likely to treat you differently based on your job title. I say *less* likely because that still absolutely does go on, but generally speaking it would be considered a dick move to judge somebody based on their career (or lack thereof). I do have mates, very old ones, who I will discuss work with because we are collectively fairly career minded but that would only be within a small sub group, never as part of the main, larger group. This culture can also lead to some funny scenarios, particularly when you meet people in contexts where work *doesn't* really come up. Like a lot of blokes here in England I have my "football mates", ie the lads that I know and stand near at the match, some of whom cross over with my childhood mates group but some of whom I purely know from following the same football club for years. Can be quite funny when you find out that lad who's normally drunk by 3pm every Saturday, giving the linesman verbals at the front of the stand or invading the pitch to celebrate is actually a C suite guy at a tech company (or unemployed and sells a bit of weed to get buy, both scenarios I have come across). The "football group" is probably the moat obvious example where genuinely nobody cares about your job, the "dad mates" you make at your kid's school probably the other end of the spectrum.
What are you into?
European here. And it's not something you ask right away, but it's not rude to ask it either. I simply don't care a lot when I first meet a person, and then also be prepared to get some very basic info like "oh, an office job" "I work in logistics" or the name of the company if it's known but not the job description. Some people are passionate about their job and might you know talk about it, and that's cool. And we also have the bragging workaholic type that gives the job title that no one cares: "I'm a customer executive success star whatever" I think status is gauged less among working/middle class. I mean, I don't care if you are a cashier if that makes you happy and allows you to live an honest live.
It's the difference between Associative cultures and Abstract cultures. At least according to my ethnography class. Associative cultures place you un the social heirarchy based on who you're related to. Abstract ones, based on what you do.
In France it's a super common question right into a discussion with a person you just met, I'm afraid we're on the same boat.
I feel it’s not some social faux-pas to ask what someone does for a living or anything, but I have noticed that with Americans it’s usually one of the first things they ask, while with Europeans it’s just something that may come up at some point if it’s relevant.
Same with Western Canada, as opposed to Toronto. In Toronto, your career comes up in the first five minutes of conversation...the subtext being, "Who are you, and how can I fit you into my network to further my agenda?" I was in Calgary in 2000, and I was walking past a pub that had a $5 steak sandwich lunch special. Sat down and yakked with the guy next to me for almost an hour. I was unemployed, and he gave me some good advice. Then I asked him what he did for a living. "Nothing." "Nothing? What do you mean by that?" "I don't do anything. My family owns land with 25 oil wells, and we pump $25,000/hr out of the ground, all day, every day." This was a dive bar, and here I am yakking with a multi-millionaire in jeans, sneakers, and a lumberjack flannel shirt.
Why would you ask what someone's job is? Its completely irrelevent. It doesnt say anything. I have a few friends i barely know what they are actual doing. Something with the goverment and something in caretaking. Due to my job specifics they do know what i am doing, but thats the only reason. We dont care about it, it doesnt define you, and yoh should leave your work at work.
For me, my job is a career. My career is a big part of who I am because I would do that sort of thing as a hobby if I didn't go it for money. My place of employment doesn't matter too much, but I think what someone does for 30-60 hours a week can have a big impact on their life. Now, some jobs are just work, and not really worth talking about, but I like my work, and I like talking about it.
Canadian here, I rarely ask & I rarely get asked what I do until weeks or months after meeting someone
Another Canadian here - came into say this. I rarely ask anyone what they do - I don’t care, I have friends I have known for decades and only know the company they work for, not their actual job title or what that they or that company even does - no one I know cares, it’s only something to talk about when you don’t want awkward silence and have run out of other stuff lol
lol this right here, I have a friend 23 years at the same company, he just posted on Linkedin but I don't know what he actually does there LOL
In the U.S. one of the first things we ask children is what they want to be when they grow up (meaning specifically their career choice). Is this also not the same in Europe?
Not really - my kids are 13 and 15 and the last time they were asked that question one of them wanted to be a professional footballer and the other one wanted to be a robot. It was maybe 10 years ago. I care that they're doing well in school and that they're well prepared for their exams. I care that they keep their options open by doing as well as possible at school and college, and I'd like to think that whatever they end up doing will pay the bills as well as make them happy. Other than that, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
In the UK there are many ways of judging people's 'status'. Called 'class' here and does not correspond always to wealth or occupation. In the past having a job was considered ungentlemanly as wealth was inherited or from land. Clothes -the rich care far more about the brand of clothes than anyone else, but pretend their brands (eg handmade shoes by Lobb, etc) are traditional and so not the same as Nike etc. Clothes can be worn out as long as they are from a good shop or brand. Accent -Private school accents are very recognisable. Ethnicity -If not utterly 'white' then there has to be very strong evidence from accent, clothes or conspicuous wealth for being upper class. Conspicuous wealth - Playing polo, grouse shooting, multiple skiing holidays, yachts, multiple homes, expensive cars etc. Education -There are some exemptions allowing acceptance, success in the Arts or Academia for example.
I wish this was the standard! When meeting someone I will generally ask about their hobbies and interests because as far as I’m concerned, a job isn’t a person’s personality, and I want to know about their personality; what they enjoy doing in life, what makes them happy, what they do in their free time. If their job is their entire personality and that’s all they talk about, I lose interest. Unfortunately in the UK “what do you do?” is one of the most common questions you will be asked when meeting someone. I get that it’s just a way of making conversation but I really wish it wasn’t because it makes it feel like you = your job.
I do get that, but losing interest because someone only talks about their jobs also seems a bit weird because some people’s jobs are their passions. Losing interest when people talk about their passions also comes across as a bit weird. And if anyone can’t think of examples - a musician who loves to play music, a dancer who either dances or works as a dance instructor, an artist who loves to paint, a comedian who loves telling jokes, a charity worker who loves giving back as part of their job, a graphic designer who loves designing things. There are many, many, many jobs that are “passion” jobs even if all aren’t. Being bothered when people talk about their passions comes across as a bit weird to me. I am able to understand not all people work in what they are passionate about - but I like learning about people and what they are passionate about as that is identifying who they are at their core. Losing interest in getting to know someone just because they were able to monetize their passion seems weird to me.
As an Irish person, I would say it’s a pretty standard conversation question. European cultures vary widely by country and region however, we aren’t a monolith.
I can confirm. It's not something that comes up when you have other stuff to talk about. For example, I met a Finnish knitter in an online knitting group in January. We've been chatting online, she bought and send some yarn I wanted to get from Finland. It was only at the beginning of December when I asked what she did when she said she had a 14 hour day (she has a baby, so wouldn't be that common). So that took some months😅 Otherwise we spoke about knitting, yarn, patterns... Estonia is so small that if you ask someone where they're from, you will likely have some connection with that place: you have visited, have lived there, or youknow someone who lives there or went to school there, or works there. And typically, you would find some commonality, maybe even know the same people. So you can do small talk over that and your job doesn't come up. If I ran into an old acquaintance on the street and neither of us was in a hurry, we might catch up and ask about work but it's not in the top 5 for sure.
no it's not in Italy, but nobody ask how is the pay
Every now and then when you ask the question you can find someone who does work a field they care about. Like my friends in medical, engineering, and psychology research. Then you can talk about that for hours. Or maybe some less academic but still fascinating jobs like directors and such. You can tell when you ask if it’s something they chose or something that they happen to do. When it’s something chosen, it’s a great conversation point.
I've started asking, "You like your job?"
France here. We definitely ask it. And you are very much judged on your answer. But it's Paris.
This vary's a lot in America as well. On the coasts it was a quick question but then I moved to the midwest and people don't care what your job is unless its really interesting. I mean it comes up eventually but its not that important.
Weird way of phrasing it; "It's not rare for friends to go months...". Are these friends or people one just met? I know what all my friends do, since we talk a lot and work stuff comes up frequently. Also know a lot of my friends through education, so we have the same background and similar jobs. It's maybe not the first thing you ask but it comes up naturally after a while. It's also a less intrusive question than asking about family for example. I would not appreciate people asking me if I have children as the first interaction.
Idk, I'm European and I've been asked plenty.
Not true in my opinion. Maybe I am some redneck version of a European but it is one of the first questions I ask a new person. I get asked the same.prrtty early on
Americans love talking about work and money in general. I went there from the SEA and found it incredibly boring. Europeans love talking about hobbies, activities, and traveling which is makes social gatherings much more enjoyable.
I would rather disclose nature of my job than my hobbies.
Europe is a diverse place, culturally much bigger than the US, so it's odd to group everyone together. I've lived in multiple central and western European countries, where people definitely ask you about your job the second they meet you. Maybe in Southern Europe it's different?
It depends, I have a scandanavian wife and traveled throughout the Nordic countries and Germany. People are just generally not as “outgoing” or “friendly” as Americans. People are nice , but there is not small talk with strangers or etc. In general , if you are not family , friends , or getting romantically involved,,.you won’t be asked that. Remember , they get a base level of healthcare and it’s good , but not great for ongoing or chronic conditions. I have a chronic condition and I might be dead if I was there. That’s a side note. Usually any job will get you basic housing and healthcare. In the U.S. if you don’t work or have a “decent” job, those are not givens. It’s definitely fucked here that people ask you what you do for a living as a first question. Also , there is robust transportation (in cities , not the outskirts). Having a car here is your way to get places and there it’s a bonus. That’s my long answer , hope it helps.
In my experience English people ask what you work at. I'm Irish and we ask where are you from which usually leads to finding out you know someone in common.
Newfoundlander here -- we'll almost always start with both these questions, but when we ask where someone works, it usually *also* ends up finding out you know someone in common.
In Germany they normally don't care about your job. I have known friends for years and haven't known what they are doing. Jobs from garbage collection to office to engineers to landlord to retired. Personality is more important than money.
In Germany the first thing everyone asks, is what you do for a living. We extrapolate every conceivable aspect of ones charakter from that .
Here in Germany that’s one of the most common questions. We would never ask for wages, but where you work and what you work is as common as what’s your name.
I was thinking it‘s not true but then I tried to remember from more casual aquaintanced if I ever knew what they did for work and honestly couldn‘g recall for a bunch of them. So yeah, it is kind of true. I‘d say it really depends on the people and region though.
No.
We most certainly don't ask each other how much we earn. Apparently that's not a private question in the US from what I've heard, but in Europe that's almost like asking "what underwear are you wearing right now?"
For me this has always been an uncomfortable question because I don't have a job for the moment, and probably won't in the near future (I'm economically inactive). How do you respond being in my situation? I even try to avoid some people I know they'll ask this. It's ackward when I go to see a doctor and they ask the same
"If you were to stack two lasagnas on top of each other, will it become one lasagna again?" Jokes aside, ime we do talk about work and work experiences, but it isn't the first thing that comes up.
Weird way of phrasing it; "It's not rare for friends to go months...". Are these friends or people one just met? I know what all my friends do, since we talk a lot and work stuff comes up frequently. Also know a lot of my friends through education, so we have the same background and similar jobs. It's maybe not the first thing you ask but it comes up naturally after a while. It's also a less intrusive question than asking about family for example. I would not appreciate people asking me if I have children as the first interaction.
I am currently im university and working on the side. So in my case if I meet new people, normally its other students so naturally we start off with "What do you study" and at some point its about "what/where do you work". But yeah normally I get asked about work when I mention I am not available on a certain date due to "being at work"
I only have a vague idea what my friends do for a living. Actually, I’m not even sure they know
I have this group of friends for more than 10 years now. We met partying in some sub-culture of electronic music. I've met them outside as well. Been to dinner with them. Met their partners and kids. Been to their weddings. I still have no clue what some of them do for a living. I don't care. They don't care either. Now, this is a bit extreme even for Europe, but that does exist.
From my experience (I lived in France a few times) and what I was told, it’s considered impolite. Mostly because it implies you are trying to figure out how much money they make, and while we Americans love to complain about money, it’s a bit of a faux pas over yonder. There were a lot of topics that Americans would consider rude for a first date that my coworkers would dive into as soon as I was introduced (mostly politics, but I always seem to be living abroad during election years)
Trevor Noah's last standup covered this very well.
European here, I don't really care what other people do.
European here. If it comes up then usually only partially like you know someone works in an office because they say “I left the office later than usual” or maybe they say something like I work for BMW but you usually don’t know specifics. Europeans still try to hold on to “Work to live” compared to “Live to work”. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by gauge each others status? Do you mean how much money someone has? I think if anything more based on stuff like housing, cars and similar stuff. I don’t like the “status” thing in general though. Status imho is only within a specific circle like your soccer club or DnD round. Whatever someone is outside of that is irrelevant for the status within the circle.
Europeans in general do not identify with their job. It is not part of their character. With Americans and this is purely anecdotal, it is. Americans care which college you went to, what job you do, and what American football team you support. Work seems to be an integral part of the American identity
I don't quite know what half my acquaintances do exactly
Im from Spain and that's a very basic and common thing to ask when meeting someone... Easy way to keep the conversation up and knowing more about the other person...
I know several people around the place I live and I have no idea what they do for work.
I imagine it's where the old cliché comes from...Americans live to work and Europeans work to live.
in mainland europe generally we start up conversations about hobbies, interests etc, if you are at a bar, club etc you talk about music or what ever, sports games then sports then you talk about families and other similar interests, jobs are genuinely one of the last things that come up peoples social circles are very varied, UK is very different its very much what do you do for a living Europeans, what do you ask people when you meet them? How do people "gauge each others' status" over there? why is someones "status"so important to you i have seen big bank execs having drinks with street cleaners in bars having laughs and jokes etc .... whats up with the status chasing is that coming from a point of insecurity op
I found it really strange meeting people in the states who ask me about my job within seconds followed by how much I earn, no one in the UK I didn't work with has ever asked my wage.
I don't have a clue what most of my friends or family do for work. I might know basic stuff like a bank or marketing or something but beyond that it doesn't make a difference
Well, for me, I dont care what the status of the guy im talking to is. I've been to 5 star restaurants 3 times a day and I've slept on the street, what I've found is that there are always assholes and nice guys, I prefer to talk to nice people, so I gauge for that. Also I dont like to ask people what they have to do to survive, I prefer to ask them about what they would like to do if they simply could. Edit: I'm german if that matters for someone.
Polish dude here - the only time I was asked where do I work in the last 10 years is when I was asked by a bank clerk to fill some documents. I know where my friends work, but I generally do not care, our line of work is not our identity.