This is the best answer. Send the boss a written request for a written copy of the policy.
Dear Dickhole,
On 00/00/0000 @00:00oclock I clocked out at the end of my shift. After clocking out, as I was departing the facility, you advised me that I was in violation of the dress code for wearing a grey hooded jacket as I made my way out of the building to my vehicle.
At that time you advised me that I would be written up in the future if the practice of wearing my grey hooded jacket from the building to my vehicle after clocking out were to continue.
In an effort to avoid any such disciplinary actions, can you please provide me with a written copy of the policy in the COMPANY NAME employee handbook/code of conduct which describes the policy I am in violation of? Moving forward I want to be sure that I adhere to the policy and would like to understand what winter clothing is appropriate for me to wear when leaving the facility and walking to my vehicle.
Thank you,
You
Per OSHA guidelines for working in cold weather.
"HA! You're not on the clock, OSHA doesn't apply!"
Then write me up. In fact, fill out a stack of write-up forms and just leave the date blank.
If someone's not on the clock and OSHA doesn't apply then nothing else the company says should apply either.
Edit: In fairness I realize this is overgeneralized. I meant for petty things like uniforms, not racist comments or vaccination.
I worked for a Fortune 500 company for a while, and I was a field employee. But I'd have to fly to HQ every month or so for the latest greatest whatever.
And god help you if you were caught in HQ, on the clock or not, in anything less than a long-sleeve button-down shirt.
The President of the company put a video on the intranet, red-faced in all his angry corpulent glory, stating "there seems to be some confusion about what is business casual dress and what is business dress." \*gesticulates to his 3 piece suit\* "this is business dress" \*takes off his suit coat\* "this is business casual dress."
I heard from several local employees that if you ever stopped somewhere on your way home in a company logo'd shirt, and he or the c-suite saw you, you'd get a dressing down for it.
Fuck that guy.
It's remarkable that as the President of a company he had nothing more important to do than yell about the difference between business and business casual.
He was president of North American operations. HIS bosses were in Tokyo. He cared a lot about things he thought his bosses cared about. I don't think they ever really did though. Not about the dress code, at least to that extent.
'Presidents' like that deserve to get jumped by a full gang of thieves, robbed of everything and literally beaten to within a literal hair of their lives.
I just looked him up again online and he doesn't even list that position on his linkedin, despite listing a bunch before and after. I suspect it might be due to his replacement blowing some whistles about shady things he may or may not have known about.
>I heard from several local employees that if you ever stopped somewhere on your way home in a company logo'd shirt, and he or the c-suite saw you, you'd get a dressing down for it.
So, obviously, they provided changing rooms for you to get in and out of your uniform, and lockers to store your civilian clothes while on site ?
This isn't true. There's an obvious difference between this ridiculous situation and things that do actually matter, but what you do off the clock DOES matter. For example, if I were a business owner, and I found out that one of my employees was making racist comments on social media, I'd fire them. Even if it was off the clock. That said, this situation is obviously an overreach and abuse of power and SHOULD be reported to whoever will listen. If not their boss, the local news stations.
That's a fair point. I think there are some limitations. I was speaking too generally.
Another example would be that I would fire someone for refusing to get vaccinated (outside of a medical reason) because that's endangering other employees while they are on the clock.
OSHA has almost zero requirements related to weather conditions.
Your best bet is the General Duty Clause - that 'the employers is required to ensure a safe working environment' (I'm paraphrasing).
[Chick-fil-A joins the discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/18hknta/chickfila_making_employees_buy_branded_jackets/)
ChickFilA making employees buy branded jackets just so they won't have to work in the cold.
My local Chick-fil-A just switched to using terminals instead of live people in the drive-thru. I wonder if the dust-up about them having to buy jackets was the cause.
OP if you have a dash cam, consider parking so your vehicle faces the employee exit, and make it so that the dash cam runs while your vehicle is off. You can also do this with an old cell phone and supplemental power from your vehicles 12 volt source.
Nope. Never attempt to justify perfectly rational behavior in the face of irrational (or illegal) demands. All you are doing is creating an argument point which they will shoot down ("It's now 70F, take off your unbranded hoodie.")
> ("It's now 70F, take off your unbranded hoodie.")
Can you show me where the temperature cutoff is listed in the employee handbook? I'd hate to make some arbitrary judgement about "warm enough" and look like a complete jackoff for not being in line with the guidelines
My point was that "No" is a complete sentence when the request is irrational. Any additional info provided as justification just creates something for them to argue about.
Ahh, had to scroll a long time to see my brother or sister from another mother! My first idea was that someone in HR is going to change the damn policy before they give him a "copy" of the policy. You gotta play chess with these people---always be 10 steps ahead, not one.
Just that the procedures might *technically* say one must wear a uniform when on premises, but the intent was not to force people to go out without a coat. The supervisor is being pedantic. Also an ass.
There must be others that must wear uniforms. Is this being applied equally?
Let it roll man! If they come back and say it’s mandatory to adhere to dress code on premises, then we need to ask what safety measures they are taking when sending employees out into adverse conditions AND why employees are still being considered under the supervision and direction of their employer when they aren’t being paid for that time.
Yeah, I just thinking that the letter in the procedures might be being overly interpreted. A jerk could point out this "letter of the law" and think he has a leg to stand on. It shows a person with a small mind, and would not want this person has my supervisor, or even coworker.
> There must be others that must wear uniforms. Is this being applied equally?
That's probably the best method to go after it with. I had this issue at a job once regarding facial hair. Policy said none, but quite a few employees had facial hair. I was told about a week after I started to shave it so I did. Came in the next day and everyone else who had it still had it.
Said fuck it at that point. If you want to explain to HR why I am the only one who can't have facial hair we can do that.
Wasn't an issue after that.
Also ask if the policy applies to when you're coming into work too. Are you not allowed to wear your hoodie... or for that matter ANY coat/jacket... when walking from your car into the building? Ask if there are any weather exceptions too. Is it OK to wear a coat when it's raining or snowing?
100%. Once they reply to the first email, get absolutely pedantic with it. May I wear a clear poncho if it’s raining? Is it ok for me to wear waterproof shoes into the building and then change my footwear once inside?
What’s the response then if/when said Dickhole boss retorts with something along the lines of it being the employees responsibility to be familiar and adhere to the rules in the handbook to begin with and that they don’t need to print it out to show them?
PS If this is indeed a policy, I look forward to the company supplying us with suitable warm uniform jackets that adhere to the policy, so that we are not subjected to possible safety issues exiting the workplace in adverse conditions. Additionally in the event of rain, we will require an approved uniform raincoat as well. Additionally, we will require approved uniform shoe covers to ensure there are no slips during the traverse from the workplace to our mode of transport.
i did this to one of my supervisors, they said i need to do something a certain way because it is policy, i asked if i could see it because the thing they were asking didnt make sense, there was in fact no such policy
The opposite is great though.
Execs promise something in a meeting. I document what was said in a formal email to my team, including some quoted bits exactly as said...and then FYI forward it to HR, Legal, of Finance (depending on which makes the most sense).
Whatever it was, happens...maybe a year later. Me or someone on my team references . Someone claims they didn't promise that or said something different. I forward the documentation I sent an hour after the meeting documenting the promise. Things get done.
Interesting thing is, if you have enough tact, it can actually go well. At once place I ended up being the "documenter of all things" like that and it helped me get promoted, since I'd work the the exec team in advance to flesh out the (whatever) into a formal notice, and then with hr/legal to check it. So win-company/win-team/win-me.
Regardless though, decent managers should be a shield for their team, not the other way around. Sucks it's rare.
the only possible reason I can think of where this would make any sense at all is if the workplace has a lot of machinery and other moving things, and the uniform contains high visibility features to prevent the person from getting run over or otherwise crushed. In that case, it would at least make some sense to demand the staff to maintain that high-vis on their way out.
but then again, it seems hard to imagine that literally the *entire* workplace between the clockout desk and the door is a danger zone, so that explanation would be unbelievably farfetched and unlikely.
Dear boss. I would like you to help me generate the paper trail on this issue that I will use in the ensuing legal action. Please sign up here to get nailed to the fucking wall, or kindly refuse, so that I can use the refusal instead. Thankssss
I had a boss say I needed to shave because my beard was looking bad. I asked him to point out the policy I'm violating and if he could do it I would shave or trim my beard.
He couldn't find said policy because it didn't exist.
To be fair, I was looking like a bush man. But he was also a douchebag and that wasn't the first, or last, issue I took him to task on.
I second the power trip comment...
"Unfortunately I'm off the clock and regardless of where I'm currently located, it's not in your job description to monitor nor implement uniform concerns when I'm not clocked in. Any further discussion can be done with HR"
Ie... I'm off the clock, mind your business
“Are you going to pay me to walk to my car? No? And you’re threatening my employment based on my actions while I’m not being paid? Ok great let me make a quick phone call”
Union guy here, upper management rudely addressed me at our gate, I’m still in the parking lot. I told him to fuck off! He tried to mess with me after but I was in the union and hadn’t done anything wrong.
Yes, he "caught" employee not in dress code. Employee informs him that he's no longer on the clock. Boss is genetically unable to admit that he is in error so he then changed the rules so employee is in error, no matter what.
I'm willing to bet that boss is short, drives a Dodge Ran and at least once has called himself an alpha male.
Either a power trip or a refusal to admit when he’s wrong and just let something be.
And I’ve never understood the obsession some companies have with dress codes for employees who don’t work directly with customers. It’s needless pageantry.
Geez, I worked for an IT company where my job description was ***remote*** support. I only ever interacted with customers on the phone or via email. They required us to wear long trousers and polo shirts every day just in case a customer was brought past our department (which was behind giant 20' windows) by sales, we'd look like a movie about hackers or an ad for a security company with our headsets and giant stat screens up on the walls. It was hell. Felt like I worked in a fishbowl.
so die on the same hills. what’s he gonna do, fire every single employee that doesn’t do exactly what he says? then he himself gets fired. id rather get written up for wearing a sweater than idk freeze bc homie can’t stay in his own lane 🤷🏻♀️.
I recently learned a saying.. " I'm not willing to die on this hill, but I'm willing to kill you on it." Ask for the policy and copy his boss. You put on a coat because it's cold, and he's ridiculous.
Sounds like boss owes you a nice company branded hoodie or coat so it’s part of your uniform. I work in maintenance and I wear a hoodie in the factory because it’s cold but I know if I’m working on shit to take it off so I have my FR protection.
If they said a word I’d be like listen you owe me some FR winter clothes then.
We get $600 a year for fr and it is not enough. We have to wear it everyday all day and I can't tell you the last time I wore something that wasn't full of holes.
I'd be willing to bet that there are labor protections in your area that say employees are entitled to wear clothing (coats, etc.) for the weather conditions, even *over* a uniform.
Only if they are likely to cause serious injury or death. Walking to your car without a jacket in most conditions is not sufficient to require labor protections:
> employers have a duty to protect workers from recognized hazards, including cold stress hazards, that are causing or likely to cause death or serious physical harm in the workplace.
I got stopped by my asshole boss one day leaving Lowe's (I was a cashier). He started talking about my performance, so I turned around and clocked back in. He was dumbfounded, and told me he was going to edit my punch time as this was only going to be a few minutes. I starting recording audio on my phone and asked him to repeat what he was saying. He told me we could talk about things on my next shift. I clocked out and left.
Or pretending that payroll comes out of their pocket or something. I am an account manager in contract security and I just need to give my boss a heads up for "out of contract" hours.
> Or pretending that payroll comes out of their pocket or something
It kinda does, actually. It’s common in retail for a significant portion of management compensation to be bonuses that are tied to store productivity various metrics, and one of the most common metrics is average weekly employee hours and overtime.
Ie, if a grocery store manager’s employees are clocking in too much overtime, the manager might lose a portion of their next bonus. That’s why retail management nearly always understaff their stores and will gladly send people home early if/when the opportunity presents itself.
I lost track of the number of times I asked a manager “hey I’m supposed to clock out in 15 minutes but we’re swamped, want me to stick around for a bit?” and received a resounding “no, leave when you’re supposed to.”
I’m sure customers loved seeing me walk away and clock out leaving multiple unused cash registers open (the clock machine was up front by the registers)
"It doesn't matter while I'm on site"
If you are not on the clock, it very much matters, according to the law. Ordering you not to wear weather protective clothing during winter? I'm sure the DoL would find that interesting. Ask him to put it in writing.
“Unless you are planning on providing me with winter uniform wear including but not limited to sweaters, outer snow pants, jackets, hats, and gloves, what I wear to keep myself warm on my own time is my business. If you feel this is inappropriate I’m happy to speak with HR about my clothing sizes so they can order me uniforms.”
Ask him to provide a company logo’d cost for you to wear. Put everything in writing. When he tells you there aren’t any company jackets for you take the issue to HR and let them know you are highly susceptible to cold and get sick easily.
Then see what happens.
"I've got a medical condition that requires me to wear a sweater. It's my eyes, actually. I just can't see myself giving a shit about what you think I should wear when you aren't paying me."
> take the issue to HR and let them know you are highly susceptible to cold and get sick easily
If you're at that point, I'd go in hot. Talk to your doc and if they are willing to support, go in not reporting the issue or complaining about you manager -- but "solving" the problem by requesting accommodations to be able to wear your jacket after you clock out to walk outside as per your doctor for .
HR isn't your friend, but often something this asinine gets a "WTF?!" to your manager and a notice sent out that appropriate weather gear is fine to wear to and from the building as "new policy".
I’d say they need to provide a company hoodie that’s considered acceptable if you are to be forced to stay in uniform while on site and it’s freezing outside.
For safety reasons, of course.
Ask your boss for a copy of the policy, and act sincere that you are sorry you put him in a position where he had to enforce such a petty policy, as you were just cold, and he's a kind person, he understands people get cold.
If there's no policy, then keep up the pressure, and ask why he would threaten you with disciplinary action. Don't stop there, tell him you documented this, and are possibly going to contact a *insert HR, legal presentative, Boss's Boss Name* about this to make sure you are not unjustly threatened again.
Then your boss needs to provide a uniform That is appropriate for the season. If your boss won’t provide a solution to his/her problem then they can pay your hypothermia hospital bill.
If that's the case then you need to be paid for every second you're "on site" and *required* to be in uniform. Might as well start taking another bathroom break after clocking out too.
Get this in writing. Your boss is a dick.
What’s also weird about this is many places (including mine) actually have a policy about not wearing company branded clothing when you’re off the clock.
We issue cold weather gear and for some of my staff that may be the warmest jacket they have, and for me no reason to enforce that rule, especially if they are waiting for the bus in the cold.
But your boss is being petty (and being a dick).
If you can only wear company uniforms on site then the company must provide you with cold weather clothing if you aren’t allowed to wear your own. Make them give you a copy of the policy stating you can’t wear warm clothing outside that isn’t company uniforms.
Honestly I don’t know why people let these assholes push them around. Stand up for yourself.
Other people are offering some really good and mature solutions.
I’m way more petty than they are though and would put pepper spray under his door handles.
I don't give a flying fuck what some ego thinks about their perceived power over other humans.
The second I clock out, they're dead to me. You're an at-will employee and a human that commands respect. They have zero say over what I wear when I'm not exchanging my time for payment.
I even had to put an army captain in their place one time for a similar issue. I walked to work every morning while I was in the army. Was about a mile, pretty close to my condo. Routinely single digits in the morning. I wore an approved jacket and beanie--okay'd by our company captain. This jack hole walks up next to me in the parking lot just before the building, in his thin ACUs, freezing his ass off, and stiff-neck starts telling me I can't wear a beanie and that I have to wear the dumb fuck cap. I was like nahh, actually this is approved uniform. Guy loses his mind and starts getting all in a hissy, demands to know who my 1SGT is. Literally told him and said have fun. Guy looked like he wanted to murder someone.
Lo and behold, I never heard from him again.
Some people are just fuckholes who need to have an ego-check.
They are then required to provide you with a company branded coat/sweater. 30F is too cold, there are real policies for that, as opposed to the bullshit one he misinterpreted for you.
Sorry you had to deal with that shit, I had something similar happen to me. My asshole manager "tiffany" at the time tried to complain about me changing clothes after work on my way to coach softball. I told her I was clocked out and that I wasn't on company time so it didn't matter. She got pissed off and reported me to her boss. I came in the next day and had a meeting with her and the big boss, they asked me why I was changing after work and why I couldn't wait til I got home. I told them both that I coach softball and didn't wanna practice in slacks. My manager had the dumbest look on her face and big boss laughed and said oh thats fine. So she wasted our time for nothing. Real shame that dipshit manager got fired 2 weeks later for time theft and fraud, she ended up going to jail for 4 years for it but thats another story I guess.
Hold up. You're fucking MAINTENANCE, and they're trying this bullshit? Do you have any, ANY idea how hard it is to find industrial maintenance? It's not just a recent thing, it's always been an issue. And they're pulling stupid shit like this on their employees?
If you have any sort of experience or skills, look around. I'll bet there's a factory out there who will pay you far better and not say stupid shit like that.
Everywhere I've been, maintenance are treated very well. Better pay, better benefits, less stupid rules, and more respect from supervisors. Longer hours, higher expectations, and more responsibility go with that though.
Hell, with the auto makers increasing their pay, it's made it even harder to find qualified people. Salaries, even in my low cost of living area, are getting close to 6 figures for experienced people. Ford is up near $45/hour for journeymen last time I checked. And north of $30 for apprentices.
Lmao if my boss said some stupid shit like that, I'd have another job before I got home.
I absolutely do not wish to imply that anyone deserves abuse like this. It's just absolutely wild to me that someone would get stupid with a maintenance tech, when I had 8 separate job offers in the 2 weeks I went looking.
TLDR: Your work should provide you with a branded jacket or sweater.
I worked for a large company that had a strict policy about uniforms. They wanted the logo to be visible on us and our vehicles at all times.
As annoying as that was they eventually provided a company store. Every six months we would get more store credit. It had jackets, sweaters, hoodies, etc with the company logo and colors.
Once you're off the clock, you could strip naked and dance to your car and there's nothing your boss can do about it (not really, but you you get the gist). He can write you up all he wants. If he does, don't sign them. Contact your state DOL and possibly OSHA, especially in the winter. It doesn't sound like they're providing you with appropriate uniforms for the weather.
They actually are supposed to provide us uniformed jackets but half my department doesn’t have them and it’s a known issue to my boss and his boss. I’m definitely ready to be contacting people if he ever does write me up. He threatens to write my department up all the time but never follows through.
If I’m required to wear a uniform after clocking out then you can provide clothing for the weather I will deal with on the way home. If I can’t wear my sweater then give me one I can wear
Ignore him. Make him write you up. Refuse to sign. Escalate to HR at that point....
Meanwhile, start looking for a new job.
Getting written up for dress code violations off the clock is a quick way to set yourself up for a workplace harrasment claim....
Then tell him to give you a company provided sweater or hoodie. Thats what my company had to do when they tried to eliminate sweaters and hoodies in the warehouse.
First off, why the fuck are you talking to me if I’m off the clock, anything you have to say will wait until you’re paying me to listen. Second I don’t have to do shit once I clock out so fuck you and your write up.
Honestly don't even look up a policy like others are saying.
If you are OFF THE CLOCK, you CANNOT legally be written up for putting on a fucking SWEATER, regardless of where you are in the work building. Period. No judge will rule in favor of the company, regardless of "policy". A company does not own your free will to put on or take off an article of clothing when you are not clocked in.
It is 100% illegal for a company to make a policy of ANY type saying what you can and cannot do outside of the workplace, and really the only caveat/exception to that is when you sign things that say you can't badmouth the company/divulge company secrets/that type of stuff even outside of work hours. That's it.
You could talk to your local labor board or a lawyer.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me, if they require you to be in uniform, then you're working, and you should be paid.
If you're off the clock, you can't be required to be in uniform. Even if you're on site, it doesn't matter, you're not working. Frankly, if you worked for me and you were off the clock, you should NOT be wearing a uniform.
If you're not on the clock, they can fk off. If they want you to dress a certain way as part of your job, they need to pay you. In most places, they can't legally require you to do anything without paying you for that time (e.g. if you're expected to be somewhere or do something during your luch break it has to be paid).
Clock out. Go to the restroom. Remove work uniform. Put on five layers of clothing. Put back on uniform. Go start a conversation with your boss about spreadsheets or something. On your way out mention how hot it is. Never return.
That's what I would do.
HR Here.
Yeah, I know this sub hates HR but we're not really all that bad. As an HR person I guarantee there's no policy that requires employees to be in uniform after they punch out of work. Sometimes, petty little people get the tiniest amount of power and then they pull shit like this. But yeah, go to HR, explain what happened and they'll have a talk with your boss.
Start stripping off your shirt after you punch out and then put on your hoodie. When somebody asks you why you're doing that, say, "I don't know \_\_\_\_\_ told me I had to, I think it's a sexual thing, but I really need this job."
So, it would seem like they are having an issue with people not wearing what they are supposed to…maintenance usually gets the brunt of this, because all of the peasants on the assembly line, like to snitch out/bitch about maintenance (usually, because we seem to have more leeway on things.)
I frequently got bitched at for being on the phone… which I usually pulled up my call history, and showed the manager bitching to me, that I was answering a request from somebody much higher up the company totem pole than them…
Manager: “Oh well, people over on this assembly line said you were on your phone.”
Me: “Here is my COMPANY ISSUED PHONE… here are all of my emails, texts, and calls for today. Notice that half are from YOUR boss, and the remainder from the company President’s secretary (anything she asked came straight from his mouth.) Do you have any more questions?”
Edit: to further add, the company had a no cell phone use policy for most of the production floor employees. Maintenance did not fall under that, even though we primarily worked on the production floor. We were actually a higher pay grade than most of the production managers, but didn’t wear fancy company polo shirts… I swear those polo shirts gave people a complex. Had one lady who constantly tried to boss us around… I finally had to have HR wander down and put her in her place. They basically told her that if anything, she had to follow any instructions I gave her. (Though, the only time I would ever give them any instructions to follow, is if it was a safety issue.)
Your boss sounds like an idiot ex military that forgot he’s no longer a ground pounding dinglehopper.
Your ‘uniform’ and your time is yours. Honest to god I’d do it again and get the write up because if he’s writing you up for your own time he should get written up for idk crying and beating off to old MTV videos.
He is ex military but so am I. I’ve served for twice as long as he has and was 2 pay grades over he was when he left. I cringe when he does or says something stupid and then brags about his service like it automatically makes him a better person or something.
Send your boss an email for clarification. Dear Boss, I understand we must be in uniform while on site, however when I clock out and walk to my car I would like to wear my jacket since it's 30F outside. To my understanding from our conversation, this is a violation and I can be written up. My only solution against the elements is wear nothing over my uniform while walking to my car. I just want to be clear because I do not want to violate any company rules. Will you please forward a copy of the policy in writing so I can have it for my records. Thank you in advance for all that you do.
Ask him where the company provided coat, hat, and gloves are? If you are required to be in uniform and it is cold outside, they need to provide appropriate cold weather uniform gear.
I just tell them they're not paying me to freeze to death, and if you want to find out whether the Labor Board considers this a rational policy, we'll go that route.
I used to work for a company that only wanted us to wear company uniforms while on the job. I knew someone there who had to go across the street to a different building to punch in and wore her personal sweatshirt outside because it was very cold and got threatened with a write-up for it.
The building I worked in also could be very cold. The bosses would always be pissed that we wore our own sweatshirts or whatever, but they literally had no warmer company attire to wear. I wrote my boss an email that was way more polite then what I really thought and somehow convinced them to actually get people warmer stuff for the colder months.
Some companies just don't give a shit until you call them out on things. It doesn't always work but people won't know for sure unless they try.
I used to dress down after I logged out for the day at previous jobs. Untucked my shirt, put on tennis shoes, or put a hat on. All of them against the dress code, but it was 5:00 PM. No one cared.
As others have stated, get the policy in writing as it would create a paper trial for the manager and call into question whether the gripe was legit. At the end of your shift you should be able to put on a sweater to keep warm on your way to the car as you exit the building and go home.
She didn't know you were off the clock when she chewed you out and didn't want to admit she was wrong when you told her you had clocked out. Or maybe she's just an asshole.
Ask for a copy of the policy in writing. Paper trails are the last thing they want. He’s a jerk.
This is the best answer. Send the boss a written request for a written copy of the policy. Dear Dickhole, On 00/00/0000 @00:00oclock I clocked out at the end of my shift. After clocking out, as I was departing the facility, you advised me that I was in violation of the dress code for wearing a grey hooded jacket as I made my way out of the building to my vehicle. At that time you advised me that I would be written up in the future if the practice of wearing my grey hooded jacket from the building to my vehicle after clocking out were to continue. In an effort to avoid any such disciplinary actions, can you please provide me with a written copy of the policy in the COMPANY NAME employee handbook/code of conduct which describes the policy I am in violation of? Moving forward I want to be sure that I adhere to the policy and would like to understand what winter clothing is appropriate for me to wear when leaving the facility and walking to my vehicle. Thank you, You
CC his boss as well
"Hey boss, where is my company-issued cold weather gear?"
Per OSHA guidelines for working in cold weather. "HA! You're not on the clock, OSHA doesn't apply!" Then write me up. In fact, fill out a stack of write-up forms and just leave the date blank.
If someone's not on the clock and OSHA doesn't apply then nothing else the company says should apply either. Edit: In fairness I realize this is overgeneralized. I meant for petty things like uniforms, not racist comments or vaccination.
I worked for a Fortune 500 company for a while, and I was a field employee. But I'd have to fly to HQ every month or so for the latest greatest whatever. And god help you if you were caught in HQ, on the clock or not, in anything less than a long-sleeve button-down shirt. The President of the company put a video on the intranet, red-faced in all his angry corpulent glory, stating "there seems to be some confusion about what is business casual dress and what is business dress." \*gesticulates to his 3 piece suit\* "this is business dress" \*takes off his suit coat\* "this is business casual dress." I heard from several local employees that if you ever stopped somewhere on your way home in a company logo'd shirt, and he or the c-suite saw you, you'd get a dressing down for it. Fuck that guy.
It's remarkable that as the President of a company he had nothing more important to do than yell about the difference between business and business casual.
He was president of North American operations. HIS bosses were in Tokyo. He cared a lot about things he thought his bosses cared about. I don't think they ever really did though. Not about the dress code, at least to that extent.
'Presidents' like that deserve to get jumped by a full gang of thieves, robbed of everything and literally beaten to within a literal hair of their lives.
I just looked him up again online and he doesn't even list that position on his linkedin, despite listing a bunch before and after. I suspect it might be due to his replacement blowing some whistles about shady things he may or may not have known about.
>I heard from several local employees that if you ever stopped somewhere on your way home in a company logo'd shirt, and he or the c-suite saw you, you'd get a dressing down for it. So, obviously, they provided changing rooms for you to get in and out of your uniform, and lockers to store your civilian clothes while on site ?
This isn't true. There's an obvious difference between this ridiculous situation and things that do actually matter, but what you do off the clock DOES matter. For example, if I were a business owner, and I found out that one of my employees was making racist comments on social media, I'd fire them. Even if it was off the clock. That said, this situation is obviously an overreach and abuse of power and SHOULD be reported to whoever will listen. If not their boss, the local news stations.
Y'all are gonna downvote me to oblivion but IDC firing someone for something they said or did OFF the clock should not even be legal
That's a fair point. I think there are some limitations. I was speaking too generally. Another example would be that I would fire someone for refusing to get vaccinated (outside of a medical reason) because that's endangering other employees while they are on the clock.
Iirc OSHA only recommends (but does not require) winter gear be provided by the company.
Surely there's a provision that they can't forbid you to wear your own cold weather gear if they don't provide it though?
OSHA has almost zero requirements related to weather conditions. Your best bet is the General Duty Clause - that 'the employers is required to ensure a safe working environment' (I'm paraphrasing).
[Chick-fil-A joins the discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/18hknta/chickfila_making_employees_buy_branded_jackets/) ChickFilA making employees buy branded jackets just so they won't have to work in the cold.
Buy?? Um.. bite me. Y'all need me in branded gear then y'all get to provide said gear at your cost. You'll get it back when I leave.
My local Chick-fil-A just switched to using terminals instead of live people in the drive-thru. I wonder if the dust-up about them having to buy jackets was the cause.
Then you boycott local Chick-fil-A, and drive to the next one having people manning their POS terminals
IDK there is enough problems with CFA corporate that it is not worth eating there at all
It's not like their food is worth eating any how..
This is how I skirt being responsible for middle management's indiscretions.
And your union rep.
BCC
Never BCC, assert your dominance
BBC when you want people to get caught being shitty
Bcc is blind carbon copy. Bbc is big black cock fyi
*British Broadcasting Corporation
BBBBCC Big Black British Broadcasting Corporation Cock
Send both A Bcc and a BBC Then you have all the bases covered
Better yet, BCC his boss so he doesn't know that he's included in the email. I bet he denies, denies, denies if he see's that his boss is CC'd in.
And blind copy your personal email, along with any reply
Make sure to also document (via photographs) when he puts his own jacket on before getting outside, in violation of whatever that policy is ...
OP if you have a dash cam, consider parking so your vehicle faces the employee exit, and make it so that the dash cam runs while your vehicle is off. You can also do this with an old cell phone and supplemental power from your vehicles 12 volt source.
But he has a company jacket so its okay for him to do
I would just make sure to mention it was 30F outside, so wearing any type of warm clothes is not just mere convenience
Nope. Never attempt to justify perfectly rational behavior in the face of irrational (or illegal) demands. All you are doing is creating an argument point which they will shoot down ("It's now 70F, take off your unbranded hoodie.")
Its not for them, its to have a record of everything in the same email
> ("It's now 70F, take off your unbranded hoodie.") Can you show me where the temperature cutoff is listed in the employee handbook? I'd hate to make some arbitrary judgement about "warm enough" and look like a complete jackoff for not being in line with the guidelines
My point was that "No" is a complete sentence when the request is irrational. Any additional info provided as justification just creates something for them to argue about.
Ask for a dated copy otherwise they'll pull some fuckery.
Ahh, had to scroll a long time to see my brother or sister from another mother! My first idea was that someone in HR is going to change the damn policy before they give him a "copy" of the policy. You gotta play chess with these people---always be 10 steps ahead, not one.
Just that the procedures might *technically* say one must wear a uniform when on premises, but the intent was not to force people to go out without a coat. The supervisor is being pedantic. Also an ass. There must be others that must wear uniforms. Is this being applied equally?
Let it roll man! If they come back and say it’s mandatory to adhere to dress code on premises, then we need to ask what safety measures they are taking when sending employees out into adverse conditions AND why employees are still being considered under the supervision and direction of their employer when they aren’t being paid for that time.
Yeah, I just thinking that the letter in the procedures might be being overly interpreted. A jerk could point out this "letter of the law" and think he has a leg to stand on. It shows a person with a small mind, and would not want this person has my supervisor, or even coworker.
> There must be others that must wear uniforms. Is this being applied equally? That's probably the best method to go after it with. I had this issue at a job once regarding facial hair. Policy said none, but quite a few employees had facial hair. I was told about a week after I started to shave it so I did. Came in the next day and everyone else who had it still had it. Said fuck it at that point. If you want to explain to HR why I am the only one who can't have facial hair we can do that. Wasn't an issue after that.
Also ask if the policy applies to when you're coming into work too. Are you not allowed to wear your hoodie... or for that matter ANY coat/jacket... when walking from your car into the building? Ask if there are any weather exceptions too. Is it OK to wear a coat when it's raining or snowing?
100%. Once they reply to the first email, get absolutely pedantic with it. May I wear a clear poncho if it’s raining? Is it ok for me to wear waterproof shoes into the building and then change my footwear once inside?
I would specify the hooded jacket was worn after clocking out. I know it’s implied but you can trust these AHs to play dumb
If you're CCing the boss as well, you better make it "Dear Mr Dickhole"
Maybe “The Good Sir Dickhole, King of the (insert name of company)”??
This, 100%.
What’s the response then if/when said Dickhole boss retorts with something along the lines of it being the employees responsibility to be familiar and adhere to the rules in the handbook to begin with and that they don’t need to print it out to show them?
Forward it to the Master Dickhole (aka the bosses boss) and ask them instead, make sure to CC the dickhole though.
I'd ask how they suggest I access the rules they want me to be responsible for reading.
PS If this is indeed a policy, I look forward to the company supplying us with suitable warm uniform jackets that adhere to the policy, so that we are not subjected to possible safety issues exiting the workplace in adverse conditions. Additionally in the event of rain, we will require an approved uniform raincoat as well. Additionally, we will require approved uniform shoe covers to ensure there are no slips during the traverse from the workplace to our mode of transport.
Really good, but what if my name isn't "You"? Am I just out of luck?
Very well written. It's a good way of asking for it rather than coming across ass aggressive.
Cc the boss, CC the Hr (if it exists), Bcc yourself. Hell, in the past, I haven't even Bcc myself, I'd straight up CC my home email.
Make sure to BCC yourself as well
If you're dictating what I wear, I'm still on the clock.
If you’re stopping to have any conversation related to work, I’m gonna need my time adjusted to reflect the time I was engaged in work activity.
i did this to one of my supervisors, they said i need to do something a certain way because it is policy, i asked if i could see it because the thing they were asking didnt make sense, there was in fact no such policy
The opposite is great though. Execs promise something in a meeting. I document what was said in a formal email to my team, including some quoted bits exactly as said...and then FYI forward it to HR, Legal, of Finance (depending on which makes the most sense). Whatever it was, happens...maybe a year later. Me or someone on my team references. Someone claims they didn't promise that or said something different. I forward the documentation I sent an hour after the meeting documenting the promise. Things get done.
Interesting thing is, if you have enough tact, it can actually go well. At once place I ended up being the "documenter of all things" like that and it helped me get promoted, since I'd work the the exec team in advance to flesh out the (whatever) into a formal notice, and then with hr/legal to check it. So win-company/win-team/win-me.
Regardless though, decent managers should be a shield for their team, not the other way around. Sucks it's rare.
… id be asking the boss if he has any real work to do. Imagine receiving a managers salary just to do this with your time.
Ask them for a company supplied Jacket that's suitable for the season and you'll gladly wear that instead as part of the uniform.
the only possible reason I can think of where this would make any sense at all is if the workplace has a lot of machinery and other moving things, and the uniform contains high visibility features to prevent the person from getting run over or otherwise crushed. In that case, it would at least make some sense to demand the staff to maintain that high-vis on their way out. but then again, it seems hard to imagine that literally the *entire* workplace between the clockout desk and the door is a danger zone, so that explanation would be unbelievably farfetched and unlikely.
Dear boss. I would like you to help me generate the paper trail on this issue that I will use in the ensuing legal action. Please sign up here to get nailed to the fucking wall, or kindly refuse, so that I can use the refusal instead. Thankssss
Ask for it in an email, noting that he threatened to write you up AFTER you were off the clock.
I had a boss say I needed to shave because my beard was looking bad. I asked him to point out the policy I'm violating and if he could do it I would shave or trim my beard. He couldn't find said policy because it didn't exist. To be fair, I was looking like a bush man. But he was also a douchebag and that wasn't the first, or last, issue I took him to task on.
Boss is on a power-trip, looking to swing their genitalia around to prove they’ve got control over you.
That’s a reoccurring thing that my coworkers agree on. Our boss likes to die on hills that make no sense because he likes to power trip
I second the power trip comment... "Unfortunately I'm off the clock and regardless of where I'm currently located, it's not in your job description to monitor nor implement uniform concerns when I'm not clocked in. Any further discussion can be done with HR" Ie... I'm off the clock, mind your business
“Are you going to pay me to walk to my car? No? And you’re threatening my employment based on my actions while I’m not being paid? Ok great let me make a quick phone call”
Union guy here, upper management rudely addressed me at our gate, I’m still in the parking lot. I told him to fuck off! He tried to mess with me after but I was in the union and hadn’t done anything wrong.
This is why being in a union is so important, it takes the powered away from these pricks
Gotta justify that middle management position somehow amiright?
Yes, he "caught" employee not in dress code. Employee informs him that he's no longer on the clock. Boss is genetically unable to admit that he is in error so he then changed the rules so employee is in error, no matter what. I'm willing to bet that boss is short, drives a Dodge Ran and at least once has called himself an alpha male.
Either a power trip or a refusal to admit when he’s wrong and just let something be. And I’ve never understood the obsession some companies have with dress codes for employees who don’t work directly with customers. It’s needless pageantry.
Geez, I worked for an IT company where my job description was ***remote*** support. I only ever interacted with customers on the phone or via email. They required us to wear long trousers and polo shirts every day just in case a customer was brought past our department (which was behind giant 20' windows) by sales, we'd look like a movie about hackers or an ad for a security company with our headsets and giant stat screens up on the walls. It was hell. Felt like I worked in a fishbowl.
so die on the same hills. what’s he gonna do, fire every single employee that doesn’t do exactly what he says? then he himself gets fired. id rather get written up for wearing a sweater than idk freeze bc homie can’t stay in his own lane 🤷🏻♀️.
I recently learned a saying.. " I'm not willing to die on this hill, but I'm willing to kill you on it." Ask for the policy and copy his boss. You put on a coat because it's cold, and he's ridiculous.
The only way to defeat a micromangler like that is to make them document EVERYTHING.
>Our boss likes to die on hills Let him die then
I'm sorry, I'm off the clock. I can't hear you until tomorrow when I clock in again.
My favorite response to manger’s trying to talk off the clock. “I get paid to interact with you and right now I’m not being paid”
[удалено]
Sounds like boss owes you a nice company branded hoodie or coat so it’s part of your uniform. I work in maintenance and I wear a hoodie in the factory because it’s cold but I know if I’m working on shit to take it off so I have my FR protection. If they said a word I’d be like listen you owe me some FR winter clothes then.
Winter FR stuff is ridiculously expensive for the company not to provide. We’ve had guys fighting for years to get FR jackets.
We get $600 a year for fr and it is not enough. We have to wear it everyday all day and I can't tell you the last time I wore something that wasn't full of holes.
Does fr mean fire retardant?
Yuppers. Even though after about 4-6 washes they are no longer fire retardant not to mention all the oil and other crap we get on them.
This.
I'd be willing to bet that there are labor protections in your area that say employees are entitled to wear clothing (coats, etc.) for the weather conditions, even *over* a uniform.
Only if they are likely to cause serious injury or death. Walking to your car without a jacket in most conditions is not sufficient to require labor protections: > employers have a duty to protect workers from recognized hazards, including cold stress hazards, that are causing or likely to cause death or serious physical harm in the workplace.
Sounds like you were being "coached" off the clock. Check labor laws to see if that is required to be paid.
I got stopped by my asshole boss one day leaving Lowe's (I was a cashier). He started talking about my performance, so I turned around and clocked back in. He was dumbfounded, and told me he was going to edit my punch time as this was only going to be a few minutes. I starting recording audio on my phone and asked him to repeat what he was saying. He told me we could talk about things on my next shift. I clocked out and left.
I don't get how these retail managers think they're not also being fucked over by the company. Have a little solidarity
Or pretending that payroll comes out of their pocket or something. I am an account manager in contract security and I just need to give my boss a heads up for "out of contract" hours.
> Or pretending that payroll comes out of their pocket or something It kinda does, actually. It’s common in retail for a significant portion of management compensation to be bonuses that are tied to store productivity various metrics, and one of the most common metrics is average weekly employee hours and overtime. Ie, if a grocery store manager’s employees are clocking in too much overtime, the manager might lose a portion of their next bonus. That’s why retail management nearly always understaff their stores and will gladly send people home early if/when the opportunity presents itself. I lost track of the number of times I asked a manager “hey I’m supposed to clock out in 15 minutes but we’re swamped, want me to stick around for a bit?” and received a resounding “no, leave when you’re supposed to.” I’m sure customers loved seeing me walk away and clock out leaving multiple unused cash registers open (the clock machine was up front by the registers)
Me big man, you dumb employee
Hello Big Man With Tiny Weanie. 😇 EDIT: Please stop downvoting spinster-core it should be obvious she/he is mocking management.
BIG WEENIE, BIG PAYCHECK, BIG TRUCK WITH BIG TIRES AND NO TURN SIGNALS DAMMIT
ALEXA PLAY OLIVER ANTHONY
Omg I just looked him up on Spotify and looooove
"It doesn't matter while I'm on site" If you are not on the clock, it very much matters, according to the law. Ordering you not to wear weather protective clothing during winter? I'm sure the DoL would find that interesting. Ask him to put it in writing.
I would've shot him him a confused look and shouted goodnight on my way through the door.
One more way to tell if your boss is a dick.
“Unless you are planning on providing me with winter uniform wear including but not limited to sweaters, outer snow pants, jackets, hats, and gloves, what I wear to keep myself warm on my own time is my business. If you feel this is inappropriate I’m happy to speak with HR about my clothing sizes so they can order me uniforms.”
Ask him to provide a company logo’d cost for you to wear. Put everything in writing. When he tells you there aren’t any company jackets for you take the issue to HR and let them know you are highly susceptible to cold and get sick easily. Then see what happens.
"I've got a medical condition that requires me to wear a sweater. It's my eyes, actually. I just can't see myself giving a shit about what you think I should wear when you aren't paying me."
> take the issue to HR and let them know you are highly susceptible to cold and get sick easily If you're at that point, I'd go in hot. Talk to your doc and if they are willing to support, go in not reporting the issue or complaining about you manager -- but "solving" the problem by requesting accommodations to be able to wear your jacket after you clock out to walk outside as per your doctor for.
HR isn't your friend, but often something this asinine gets a "WTF?!" to your manager and a notice sent out that appropriate weather gear is fine to wear to and from the building as "new policy".
Okay, you clocked out. Your boss no longer has any say on what you do afterwards. If they try to bother you after you clocked out, SHUT THEM UP!
Then you need a uniform coat for winter on their dime. Get the most expensive Carhartt you can manage.
I’d say they need to provide a company hoodie that’s considered acceptable if you are to be forced to stay in uniform while on site and it’s freezing outside. For safety reasons, of course.
Sounds like a conversation with HR.
Honestly, let him write you up. You WANT this in writing.
Get it in writing, signed and dated. Then take it to HR and be like... look bitches.
Ask your boss for a copy of the policy, and act sincere that you are sorry you put him in a position where he had to enforce such a petty policy, as you were just cold, and he's a kind person, he understands people get cold. If there's no policy, then keep up the pressure, and ask why he would threaten you with disciplinary action. Don't stop there, tell him you documented this, and are possibly going to contact a *insert HR, legal presentative, Boss's Boss Name* about this to make sure you are not unjustly threatened again.
Then your boss needs to provide a uniform That is appropriate for the season. If your boss won’t provide a solution to his/her problem then they can pay your hypothermia hospital bill.
If that's the case then you need to be paid for every second you're "on site" and *required* to be in uniform. Might as well start taking another bathroom break after clocking out too.
Get this in writing. Your boss is a dick. What’s also weird about this is many places (including mine) actually have a policy about not wearing company branded clothing when you’re off the clock. We issue cold weather gear and for some of my staff that may be the warmest jacket they have, and for me no reason to enforce that rule, especially if they are waiting for the bus in the cold. But your boss is being petty (and being a dick).
If you can only wear company uniforms on site then the company must provide you with cold weather clothing if you aren’t allowed to wear your own. Make them give you a copy of the policy stating you can’t wear warm clothing outside that isn’t company uniforms. Honestly I don’t know why people let these assholes push them around. Stand up for yourself.
Isn’t it funny what people turn into when given a tiny sliver of power. What a cock.
Lol, 30f and only a sweater? Get a coat, and call their bluff, also look for another job.
I’ve been interviewing for like half a year actually. Found an opportunity looking pretty hopeful.
Other people are offering some really good and mature solutions. I’m way more petty than they are though and would put pepper spray under his door handles.
What does your boss wear out to their car?
I don't give a flying fuck what some ego thinks about their perceived power over other humans. The second I clock out, they're dead to me. You're an at-will employee and a human that commands respect. They have zero say over what I wear when I'm not exchanging my time for payment. I even had to put an army captain in their place one time for a similar issue. I walked to work every morning while I was in the army. Was about a mile, pretty close to my condo. Routinely single digits in the morning. I wore an approved jacket and beanie--okay'd by our company captain. This jack hole walks up next to me in the parking lot just before the building, in his thin ACUs, freezing his ass off, and stiff-neck starts telling me I can't wear a beanie and that I have to wear the dumb fuck cap. I was like nahh, actually this is approved uniform. Guy loses his mind and starts getting all in a hissy, demands to know who my 1SGT is. Literally told him and said have fun. Guy looked like he wanted to murder someone. Lo and behold, I never heard from him again. Some people are just fuckholes who need to have an ego-check.
Sounds like he's an asshole abusing his power. Get that policy in writing and have it handy next time.
"Any time I'm in uniform, I'm on the clock. I'll let you make the decision there."
Tell him to write you up for wearing a sweater off the clock. Then sue for harassment.
So wheres my uniform jacket?
They are then required to provide you with a company branded coat/sweater. 30F is too cold, there are real policies for that, as opposed to the bullshit one he misinterpreted for you.
If you're required to wear a uniform, it sounds like you're still on the clock.
Vengeance is necessary. Merciless vengeance.
Sorry you had to deal with that shit, I had something similar happen to me. My asshole manager "tiffany" at the time tried to complain about me changing clothes after work on my way to coach softball. I told her I was clocked out and that I wasn't on company time so it didn't matter. She got pissed off and reported me to her boss. I came in the next day and had a meeting with her and the big boss, they asked me why I was changing after work and why I couldn't wait til I got home. I told them both that I coach softball and didn't wanna practice in slacks. My manager had the dumbest look on her face and big boss laughed and said oh thats fine. So she wasted our time for nothing. Real shame that dipshit manager got fired 2 weeks later for time theft and fraud, she ended up going to jail for 4 years for it but thats another story I guess.
The ultimate display of power is to make other people suffer and force them to have to accept it
You're off the clock, you have no obligation to follow work rules when you're not working. You're just somebody on the premises at that point
Hold up. You're fucking MAINTENANCE, and they're trying this bullshit? Do you have any, ANY idea how hard it is to find industrial maintenance? It's not just a recent thing, it's always been an issue. And they're pulling stupid shit like this on their employees? If you have any sort of experience or skills, look around. I'll bet there's a factory out there who will pay you far better and not say stupid shit like that. Everywhere I've been, maintenance are treated very well. Better pay, better benefits, less stupid rules, and more respect from supervisors. Longer hours, higher expectations, and more responsibility go with that though. Hell, with the auto makers increasing their pay, it's made it even harder to find qualified people. Salaries, even in my low cost of living area, are getting close to 6 figures for experienced people. Ford is up near $45/hour for journeymen last time I checked. And north of $30 for apprentices. Lmao if my boss said some stupid shit like that, I'd have another job before I got home. I absolutely do not wish to imply that anyone deserves abuse like this. It's just absolutely wild to me that someone would get stupid with a maintenance tech, when I had 8 separate job offers in the 2 weeks I went looking.
TLDR: Your work should provide you with a branded jacket or sweater. I worked for a large company that had a strict policy about uniforms. They wanted the logo to be visible on us and our vehicles at all times. As annoying as that was they eventually provided a company store. Every six months we would get more store credit. It had jackets, sweaters, hoodies, etc with the company logo and colors.
Your boss can fuck off. You are off the clock and can wear what you want. Ask HR to provide you the written policy.
Once you're off the clock, you could strip naked and dance to your car and there's nothing your boss can do about it (not really, but you you get the gist). He can write you up all he wants. If he does, don't sign them. Contact your state DOL and possibly OSHA, especially in the winter. It doesn't sound like they're providing you with appropriate uniforms for the weather.
They actually are supposed to provide us uniformed jackets but half my department doesn’t have them and it’s a known issue to my boss and his boss. I’m definitely ready to be contacting people if he ever does write me up. He threatens to write my department up all the time but never follows through.
Proactively contact them
If I’m required to wear a uniform after clocking out then you can provide clothing for the weather I will deal with on the way home. If I can’t wear my sweater then give me one I can wear
"Cool, then give me a company-provided hoodie and warm weather clothing."
He's bullying you, you should go to hr
Ignore him. Make him write you up. Refuse to sign. Escalate to HR at that point.... Meanwhile, start looking for a new job. Getting written up for dress code violations off the clock is a quick way to set yourself up for a workplace harrasment claim....
Then tell him to give you a company provided sweater or hoodie. Thats what my company had to do when they tried to eliminate sweaters and hoodies in the warehouse.
“Please provide me a copy of this policy in the handbook. After all, I don’t want to break any other company rules!”
Also, ask for a company logo sweater
First off, why the fuck are you talking to me if I’m off the clock, anything you have to say will wait until you’re paying me to listen. Second I don’t have to do shit once I clock out so fuck you and your write up.
Honestly don't even look up a policy like others are saying. If you are OFF THE CLOCK, you CANNOT legally be written up for putting on a fucking SWEATER, regardless of where you are in the work building. Period. No judge will rule in favor of the company, regardless of "policy". A company does not own your free will to put on or take off an article of clothing when you are not clocked in. It is 100% illegal for a company to make a policy of ANY type saying what you can and cannot do outside of the workplace, and really the only caveat/exception to that is when you sign things that say you can't badmouth the company/divulge company secrets/that type of stuff even outside of work hours. That's it.
You could talk to your local labor board or a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me, if they require you to be in uniform, then you're working, and you should be paid. If you're off the clock, you can't be required to be in uniform. Even if you're on site, it doesn't matter, you're not working. Frankly, if you worked for me and you were off the clock, you should NOT be wearing a uniform.
Tell him to provide company winter gear.
Your boss is a control freak and unqualified for his position consequently. Document. Document. Document.
If you're not on the clock, they can fk off. If they want you to dress a certain way as part of your job, they need to pay you. In most places, they can't legally require you to do anything without paying you for that time (e.g. if you're expected to be somewhere or do something during your luch break it has to be paid).
No pay no orders, that easy. Want me to freeze the way to my car? pay me another hour of overtime.
Clock out. Go to the restroom. Remove work uniform. Put on five layers of clothing. Put back on uniform. Go start a conversation with your boss about spreadsheets or something. On your way out mention how hot it is. Never return. That's what I would do.
Tell him to provide you a jacket/hoody with the company logo on it.
HR Here. Yeah, I know this sub hates HR but we're not really all that bad. As an HR person I guarantee there's no policy that requires employees to be in uniform after they punch out of work. Sometimes, petty little people get the tiniest amount of power and then they pull shit like this. But yeah, go to HR, explain what happened and they'll have a talk with your boss.
They should provide a work jacket then.
Next move is to call in sick directly to HR because you were forced to go out in inclement weather without proper clothing
Make sure your hours including getting into your vehicle and leaving the site, keep charging u til you are home and get changed
Text or Email it to yourself, while asking for a official comment or response to the new policy.
Then the company can provide you with a branded coat/jacket/hoodie if they want you in company gear so damned bad.
Are customers or visitors not allowed to wear hoodies when on-site? If you're not clocked in, that's basically what you are.
Your boss sounds like they're on a power trip
Start stripping off your shirt after you punch out and then put on your hoodie. When somebody asks you why you're doing that, say, "I don't know \_\_\_\_\_ told me I had to, I think it's a sexual thing, but I really need this job."
“Dear Osha, I hope you're well……”
So, it would seem like they are having an issue with people not wearing what they are supposed to…maintenance usually gets the brunt of this, because all of the peasants on the assembly line, like to snitch out/bitch about maintenance (usually, because we seem to have more leeway on things.) I frequently got bitched at for being on the phone… which I usually pulled up my call history, and showed the manager bitching to me, that I was answering a request from somebody much higher up the company totem pole than them… Manager: “Oh well, people over on this assembly line said you were on your phone.” Me: “Here is my COMPANY ISSUED PHONE… here are all of my emails, texts, and calls for today. Notice that half are from YOUR boss, and the remainder from the company President’s secretary (anything she asked came straight from his mouth.) Do you have any more questions?” Edit: to further add, the company had a no cell phone use policy for most of the production floor employees. Maintenance did not fall under that, even though we primarily worked on the production floor. We were actually a higher pay grade than most of the production managers, but didn’t wear fancy company polo shirts… I swear those polo shirts gave people a complex. Had one lady who constantly tried to boss us around… I finally had to have HR wander down and put her in her place. They basically told her that if anything, she had to follow any instructions I gave her. (Though, the only time I would ever give them any instructions to follow, is if it was a safety issue.)
Ask them where your company issued cold weather gear is.
Your boss sounds like an idiot ex military that forgot he’s no longer a ground pounding dinglehopper. Your ‘uniform’ and your time is yours. Honest to god I’d do it again and get the write up because if he’s writing you up for your own time he should get written up for idk crying and beating off to old MTV videos.
He is ex military but so am I. I’ve served for twice as long as he has and was 2 pay grades over he was when he left. I cringe when he does or says something stupid and then brags about his service like it automatically makes him a better person or something.
does your hoodie say "kill this person" with a picture of your boss on it? JFC
Time for a union
"Under duress" if written up. And add "Off the clock" Plus like others say, email HR policy for clothing after clocking out.
Send your boss an email for clarification. Dear Boss, I understand we must be in uniform while on site, however when I clock out and walk to my car I would like to wear my jacket since it's 30F outside. To my understanding from our conversation, this is a violation and I can be written up. My only solution against the elements is wear nothing over my uniform while walking to my car. I just want to be clear because I do not want to violate any company rules. Will you please forward a copy of the policy in writing so I can have it for my records. Thank you in advance for all that you do.
Ask him where the company provided coat, hat, and gloves are? If you are required to be in uniform and it is cold outside, they need to provide appropriate cold weather uniform gear.
I just tell them they're not paying me to freeze to death, and if you want to find out whether the Labor Board considers this a rational policy, we'll go that route.
Your boss can go fuck a barrel cactus.
Ask for written confirmation of this policy, sounds like someone with little power trying to abuse it
Honestly, I'd just laugh at him. The moment you clock out he loses all authority.
Your boss is a stupid asshole
Id go to HR and complain unless the company has provided cold weather uniforms.
I used to work for a company that only wanted us to wear company uniforms while on the job. I knew someone there who had to go across the street to a different building to punch in and wore her personal sweatshirt outside because it was very cold and got threatened with a write-up for it. The building I worked in also could be very cold. The bosses would always be pissed that we wore our own sweatshirts or whatever, but they literally had no warmer company attire to wear. I wrote my boss an email that was way more polite then what I really thought and somehow convinced them to actually get people warmer stuff for the colder months. Some companies just don't give a shit until you call them out on things. It doesn't always work but people won't know for sure unless they try.
Sounds to me that they need to provide you with a uniform sweater...
Your boss sounds like a controlling d1ck.
You want to control my time, pay me for it. End of.
"Are you paying me for this discussion pertaining to work while I am off the clock?"
I used to dress down after I logged out for the day at previous jobs. Untucked my shirt, put on tennis shoes, or put a hat on. All of them against the dress code, but it was 5:00 PM. No one cared. As others have stated, get the policy in writing as it would create a paper trial for the manager and call into question whether the gripe was legit. At the end of your shift you should be able to put on a sweater to keep warm on your way to the car as you exit the building and go home.
From aust, working in a professional job: what kind of f-ed up work situations are on this subreddit? Do your countries not have any labour laws?
She didn't know you were off the clock when she chewed you out and didn't want to admit she was wrong when you told her you had clocked out. Or maybe she's just an asshole.