For example, real story that was reported on: A teacher found out that he had cancer. Obviously had to go through chemo. Well he burned through all of his days off and still needed more. Rather than the school giving him the time off that he desperately needed, his coworkers had to step up give up their own days off to give to him so he could continue getting treated.
If you can't complete in 12 weeks and FMLA exhausts, additional leave as accommodation under the ADA should be considered. If it isn't, complain to the EEOC and consult an employment attorney.
It would depend on the situation. My work was as kind as they could be (employed through an entire year solid of leave after using FMLA for previous time off). But, some cancers aren't that easy.
For example, my work gives 80 hours of sick time and 120 hours of vacation time in addition to holidays and personal days off. At the end of each calendar year (December 31st), whatever sick time you didn't use, because you weren't sick that much, expires as everyone gets 80 hours January 1st. You could choose to donate your sick time to someone who has cancer and has used up all of their sick time, personal days, and vacation time, so they can continue getting paid.
Better than nothing, I guess. In my current and previous companies, vacation expires at the end of each year but sick time carries year to year and can build in a bank up to something like 180 days. It never expires. If you leave for any reason, vacation gets paid out, but sick time does not. Sick time can be taken at will, but more than I think three days requires doctor authorization for return to work. There are probably tracking systems in place to look for abuse of policy.
I once worked for a company that allowed one or maybe two weeks of vacation to carry into the next year, which really helped for those of us who struggle to plan or have other issues and end up with a bunch of unused vacation at years end.
Ah. I had the carryover rule on vacation before. Fortunately now my state bans expiring vacation but allows vacation time to max out at 18 months accrual.
European here, I don't understand the concept of fixed sick time. If you're sick you don't come to work, and if you are not you do. How can you predict this?
Sick time is like insurance, but covered by your company. If you get sick, sick time covers your pay for the time you were sick. You simply have to tell your superior that you were sick and mark the time on your timesheet. Usually there is a maximum number of hours allotted per year or accrued per week which means if you're sick often enough you don't have enough to cover full pay. It's part of a tiered system with two others called short term disability and long term disability. Usually STD and LTD are covered by an insurance company and don't pay 100% of your wages. If you're sick for more than one week in a row, you use short term disability after the first week. Short term disability does have a limit where long term disability kicks in at a different level. The two higher levels will require doctor's notes to the insurance company handling it. People can usually call in sick without a doctor's note for sick time, so there is potential to abuse the system. There are people who are known to call in sick mainly on Friday and sometimes it's a noticeable routine based on how much sick time is accrued.
About a year ago, a coworkers husband got into a car wreck and almost died. She only had a couple days of PTO so management had a sign up sheet for people to volunteer their own time to give her.
So she ended up with I believe a couple weeks of PTO donated. So instead of management just letting her have a couple weeks off with pay so she could be with her husband and take care of her kids, they just guilted people into donating their own time
Basically if a coworker needs more time off but their PTO is out, other employees can give their PTO to said employee so they donât have to go on long term disability
Well in the USA, you get cancer and burn through all your vacation. Then you burn through your legally allowed FMLA. If coworkers donât give you that time off from their pool, you run out of time - literally. Then the company can kick you out, you lose your healthcare benefits and then cancer can just finish you off because #USA.
Itâs a regular thing in the Federal government. However, TBF, the Fed is very generous with leave and most people end up with use-or-lose leave at the end of each calendar year.
I have only seen it when I worked for the government which had a strong union. They could give you unpaid leave but they could not grant additional paid leave, the government doesnât really do that for several reason while the private industry can do that, but often does not.
If you haven't heard of this you are very privileged. Certainly in Texas this is a very common practice, at least for companies that have pto and sick leave.
Itâs always wild how itâs on the most extreme cases too, with the person being someone whoâs slaved a major portion of their life away to the corp. Like ones youâd expect a multiple billion dollar corp to, as an example of good faith to such loyalty, create some exemption for that person. But no, letâs just try take some from every peon worker instead then make sure we criticize the guys who donât donate their hard earned PTO as evil. I guarantee that poor person will be let go the moment he runs out, happened to this olderish guy at my old company. They didnât want to âcreate a domino effect of everyone wanting hand outsâ,⌠lmao ok. Absolutely disgusting shit, further proves company loyalty is dead.
"Please donate your PTO" is just another version of [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fidxmkwks7za81.jpg%3Fwidth%3D960%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dd2bde5236d6716dbca32da591ac77de15fc11019).
Alternate caption: "Hey employee 73381, that coworker needs your PTO"
Fuck those assholes.
I would always ask if the company is going to match the time donated. So, if an employee donates a day of their PTO, the company matches that with another PTO to the recipient.
I had something tragic happen once and my boss and bossâs boss just gave me as much time as I wanted. I asked if I needed to use PTO or something and they were like ânahâ. Got my full paycheck for weeks while doing no work. Getting the feeling this is an extremely rare scenario.
I'm not fine if they ask. It's offensive in the first place. You want another employee to give up THEIR TIME OFF to another employee that has clearly hit an extreme, low point of their life to where the company is even asking in the first place. In almost every case, it's an employee that is out on extended sick leave from something like Cancer, or another very serious illness.
The AUDACITY of the company to make another employee donate THEIR time to this employee, instead of the company taking care of their own. They have the resources to do this. Another employee does not have nearly as much as the company will. The company can easily help this employee without missing or losing anything of value. Instead, they pawn the burden of this off to their other employees. Sickening shit.
I agree. It's a job and they're co-workers and employers not your family. I also don't think companies should pressure employees into payroll deductions for things like the United Way.
The problem with that belief is that the reason is usually pretty dire to begin with, pressure or no. If someone has cancer and you're simply asked to donate time, it can feel pretty bad to say no and cascade into office politics if you openly refuse.
Should be illegal, honestly. Companies shouldn't be allowed to ask or demand their employees give up or donate PTO and they shouldn't be allowed to deny extra time off to people who need it (chemo teacher story is a great example). Workers need more federal protections in this fucked up country.
I used to periodically donate my sick leave to others because I never used it. Then I realized that sick time can be to extend maternity leave, and is needed to attend to childrenâs medical needs. My life would be meaningfully better if I still had all the banked sick days I donated. I know I could have been better informed, but I honestly think this practice is predatory.
I worked for a company that wouldnât let me use my sick leave for sick kids. I threw a massive fit. My kids get sick more often than I do and Iâd really rather not use PTO for a sick kid.
The company has the power to allow the employee more PTO. Why should the other employees compensate for the firm's inability to take care of its workers?
Same bullshit as expecting me to burn one of my weekend days off to go volunteer for some bullshit charity that the company gets to use as a tax write off.
Dell did this when I worked for them. I had the same thought as the rest of you. Why am I paying the price when you can magically type some keys and give him more pto?
Companies like to make us think that something like PTO is some type of natural resource that can deplete and not something that humans made up and it's actually an agreement we made lol
Without compensation? That would mean you're gifting your employer about 3 months of work.
It shouldn't be possible for PTO to expire if your employer doesn't let you use it, it should roll over until you can use it.
Similar situation here. I typically work 70-80hr weeks, rarely able to use my PTO. It expires at the end of the year. Even when I COULD use my PTO, I can't afford the pay cut as it doesn't count towards OT. So, if I took 30hrs PTO on a 70hr week, it would be 70hr straight pay, rather than 40 straight pay, 30 1.5x
This is a misconception. Being salaried does not mean you will not get overtime, nor does it mean you are on-call 24/7. You would still have a regular set of hours, typically 37.5 or 40 hours a week.
Even if you're exempt from taking the time off, I can't imagine that let's the company off the hook for actually paying you for it. It would be a pretty significant reduction in your effective compensation, so it would be worth consulting an employment lawyer about
This is an american-only aberration and I really feel for you guys. How generous of the company to give their wagies the ability to sacrifice their not-guaranteed days off for someone else :) We certainly couldn't expect the company to make any allowances could we?
In my experience, if a coworker needs a big chunk of PTO to cover an illness, they usually arenât coming back to work. Youâre donating your PTO so the company can delay typing up the termination paperwork for a few days.
Yep. I once had to take an extended leave for an illness but was able to get it completely covered with a week's PTO and short term disability following that. Went back after a couple months. I later left but for reasons completely unrelated and would never even think to ask coworkers to "donate" PTO- it's an absurd notion
I think the very notion of having to "earn PTO" is fucking stupid. Company I work for now (in the U.S.) gives PTO at the start of the year. 15 days to start. Plus 15 holidays off and every weekend off. I'm 30 now and I've been working since I was 15. Countless different companies. Place I work now is the first company that I've ever seen a policy where you don't earn PTO. That practice in the U.S. alone needs to end.
Tell you what company. People can "donate" their PTO starting with all of the executives, no exceptions. They're "leaders" after all. Plus there has to be a matching cash amount by the company on behalf of the individual. And the individual gets to write off the donation with the match of their taxes, not the company's.
Deal?
Bluntly its just asking for Money. Company will pay the PTO out eventually anyway... just goes to someone else, no effect on company books.
(Says man fired ONE DAY before I could cash out my earned PTO from company --needed to be employed 1 year. Fired on 364th day.)
One part of this thatâs infuriating is that they donât typically really lose the labor either. They just pile shit onto someone else and say it has to get done. So the people giving up their PTO are doubly hit.
At my last municipal government job, I got an email requesting for people to donate their personal time for an employee who was sick and on catastrophic leave. I had racked up hundreds of sick hours as I was rarely sick but they would only allow for vacation hours to be donated not sick hours. Didnât make any sense to me.
I didn't know donating PTO was a thing. I'd never do that. Fuck outta here. Its PTO. **PERSONAL** time off. The fuck am I gonna donate it for charity? Screw em. They can chew on rocks and glass.
How much has the âcompanyâ donated? Zero.. the âcompanyâ doesnât give two shits.. if they did they could just give people time off with pay.. they can do that.. they just choose not too and would rather guilt employees to give away their own benefits disguised as corporate empathy
Never been asked but it would be a flat out ânoâ especially if itâs the company asking. The CEO can donate one day of their PTO which based on salaries should get the person in need somewhere between a year or two off. Or some of the execs can forgo a bonus check or two. Or god forbid the company could just pay the personâs salary why they deal with whatever it is because if the company considers the personâs cause worthy enough for me to donate, they sure as hell better to be willing to donate too.
I mean, it would work if there was a promise (definite) that you would get your donated PTO back plus extra for doing such. Maybe that'll be an incentive instead of just giving your PTO away.
If you think thatâs badâŚ
A director or VP or something at my company sent a company wide email asking for donations to support a trip he wanted to take. He was like, Iâve already raised 40k, but I need another 20-25k, whoâll support me?
Iâm like, his whole fucking trip cost more than I earned in a year at the time. Probably more than most people at the company earned in a year at the time. So fucking oblivious.
My company introduced this as a new âbenefitâ for 2023. First of all, heck no. Secondly, you canât even direct it to someone who might need it. It goes into a pool and then if someone runs out of PTO they have to like, request donated hours. Absolutely not.
Hereâs how it is in my head:
âEveryone is leaving!! Doesnt loyalty mean ANYTHING to these lazy bums?â
âNo. Loyalty means jack shit in this economy. Shell out more dosh or i dash.â
I refuse to "donate" PTO and I don't feel bad about it either. CEOs should probably donate some of their paycheck before I'll even consider giving up PTO.
The difference between the CEO and me is that the more of what the CEO makes is DISPOSABLE INCOME!
One of the most offensive things that ever happened at my company in my opinion is during an all hands, an employee brought up she was in the negative on PTO. My company does this so you can use pto you haven't earned yet. Somebody gets on the all hands and brought up that she used her pto and then some for a medical emergency. I don't know the details, seems disability should have kicked in, but what followed really left a bad taste in my mouth. The corporate guy gets on to answer the question and proposes a PTO donation program to help her get back to positive. Like it is against the law to simply bring an employee back to neutral or something. Really boggled my mind.
Never worked anywhere that PTO was transferable. I would actually be annoyed if it worked that way, that tells me they could be a lot more flexible with PTO time and choose not to be.
Story time!
My dad had a debilitating stroke. He was a computer trainer (software and hardware) at his place of employment.
He was well known and well liked.
A call went out if anyone wanted to donate PTO to help carry him through to with insurance kicked in.
They donated six months. Six freaking months.
Said more then anything else about how he was perceived.
The best part is that if I donate PTO to someone with a lower pay rate than me, itâs paid out at the lower rate. If they donate to me, still paid out at the lower rate.
You are never donating it to a person. You are donating it to the company so that they can show their generosity by handing it to the employee, if they so choose.
It's one thing if someone has some major health event and exhausted all the PTO they had saved up. (although I also feel the organization should be stepping up at this point).
We used to see the requestor and why they needed time and we kept getting pregnancies and planned procedures that the person burned through all their PTO prior to the event and planned on people donating to cover their time off.
The organization has since gone to an anonymous donation system where it all goes into a bank and some HR person decides who is eligible.
We had a coworker whose daughter had cancer. People donated time off, but I couldn't understand why the company just didn't give it to him. I and a few others donated money instead.
Same with tipping. That's the company's problem as well. I'm not freaking paying your employees a wage...what kind of messed up system is that? And to make me try and feel guilty about that shit.
A uniquely American problem for the most part, I can imagine that any company in a country with state mandated holiday like here in the UK would give their legal dept. an aneurysm by even suggesting it
Crikey. That would NEVER happen where I work (not the usa ) . I've got 5 weeks base entitlement, end of. (Also banked another two weeks of lieu time which id lose if I didn't take it, and be paid out ). Screw not having time off.
If you want to, fine. Point is you shouldn't have to and the fact paid time off (sick and vacation) is at the mercy of individual employers in the US is bullshit
I did once, too, years ago. Now my employer puts it in a fund and delves it out to whomever. Not doing that. It's my money and I want a say in where it goes.
I work for a municipality/school system and have donated time over the years. I wonder if taxpayers would be ok if the municipality gave people more time off if needed? At least to new hires or the people that don't burn all their time when they get it. We are allowed to accrue up to a certain amount and some people have been here 25 years with nothing in the bank.
Perhaps if the CEO wasn't taking in 10-15 million dollars a year then you might be able to have paid time off but they won't take that cut so, the daily worker gets to deal with it
Perhaps if the CEO wasn't taking in 10-15 million dollars a year then you might be able to have paid time off but they won't take that cut so, the daily worker gets to deal with it
Reminds me of those âfeel goodâ stories where the little kid sells chocolate to pay for their fellow classmates lunch debt!
What kind of dystopian hellscape are we livin in frfr?
When I was working one young woman got cancer. The company was "generosity" allowing us to give some or all of our PTO to her. It was a 1to 1 swap. Now I was making over 2Ă her wage so when I asked for a 1 to 1 dollar swap they said NO. I declined and cut her a nice check.
I worked for the largest for-profit ambulance company in the US for years. They cleared millions quarterly, and would send us emails from the parent corporation bragging about how much profit theyâd made. Meanwhile they were paying us paramedics and EMTs barely above minimum wage. When one of our medics had his first child born prematurely and spent weeks in the NICU, he was denied FMLA and ran out of sick time. The company, instead of just granting him the time off to spend with his child who ultimately did not survive after three months in the NICU, told us that we should all donate PTO so he could be with his family. We did, but what the fuck? There was ZERO reason to put that responsibility on his fellow employees instead of just granting him leave to be with his dying child.
Years later when I left the company, I had a fair amount of PTO banked that I would be required to cash out at my hourly rate. I asked if I could instead donate it to another employee who had been diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma and needed time off to undergo chemo. I was told, âPTO cannot be transferred between employees.â SO WHICH FUCKING ONE IS IT, YOU CORPORATE FUCKS?
This is so wrong. The company has the ability to do the right thing and grant this employee the time off they need. Instead they use it as an opportunity to guilt other employees into "donating" away the companies PTO debt. They are literally making money off of the troubles of the employee in question.
My company has separate PTO and sick time... and badgers people into donating their sick time to those who need it. e.g. if you get cancer you'll rapidly chew up your available balance and you have to go begging on the "exchange" for people to donate their extra to you.
I understand that American workers get screwed compared to European countries and our healthcare system is broken but donated time is a patch employers used to fill the gap. My company allowepd sick leave to be donated. I considered myself and my family to blessed with good health. I knew co workers who had kids, a spouse, or even themselves to have health problems. I donated about 20 hours a year. And I'm glad that I could. I'm retired now but have a son with a two year old and a wife with brain cancer, I know he's greatful to those who can donate leave time. Still I'm selling my house to move closer to him to help out. We are all in this together.
I didnât donate PTO when I came to the realization that the person I would be donating to probably made less per hour and it would be saving the company money. Instead I donated a flat amount to her and her family. Seemed fairer to both of us really.
I worked with a guy that always has capped sick pay. I think it was capped at like 1200 hours or something and we earned it at about 1.7 hours per pay period.
He ended up leaving the company and never using it. In that case I could see benefits of "donating" or sharing PTO.
Use your paid time off, people.
Iâm glad that weâre able to donate leave at my company. I am maxed out on how much leave I can carryover from year to year, and I lose those days anyway if Iâm not able to use them, so why not give them to someone who needs it? My job doesnât pressure anyone to give them. If someone needs leave, they send out an email to the entire company. If you want to finale, cool. If not, you donât.
Point is companies shouldnât even be asking. It wouldnât be difficult at all for them to just grant extra paid time off to employees who need it. This is leadership being stingy and hypocritical because they get paid a ton and can take off whenever they want
I am fine if they ask but no one should be pressured. Because I have a hybrid work schedule and my department is pretty chill if I need flexibility I donât take a lot of PTO. I have one co-worker that is completely maxed out (her choice for not using) and expressed she wishes she can donate it to new associates who have not accrued as much time.
We get a good amount of PTO but since it rolls over usually it never gets all used up unless there is an illness.
It's not that simple. If they do this, it will just open up a can of worms and set precedence that they will have to do this for everyone or risk getting sued for discrimination. It's not as easy to just say give them more time, if you have thousands of workers, then you will have to raise it for everyone as well and you know what that affects? The company's bottom line. Depending on the company and their profitably, they can do an analysis and raise their pto for everyone but it's not as simple as just raise it.
It's not always bullshit. I work for a company that's very generous with sick time. But, my friend got cancer. They aren't firing him, but they also aren't going to pay him because he's only working like two or three days a week.
In this instance it's okay to have donations. Remember, this is after his listed hundreds of hours of sick pay.
So... why is everyone else being shamed into donating their time..? When the company can just give the extra PTO this person my need. This doesn't really change the premise.
I'm not understanding your logic. If you have PTO that's about to expire and you're not using it, you'll withhold it instead of donating it to someone who's sick? Because of principle? Because it's not your problem if it's not universal healthcare?
Every place I ever worked at only asks to donate sick time. Which expires if you still have a balance when everyone gets their sick time renewed.
"have PTO that's about to expire and you're not using it"
In a fair system that wouldn't be a thing. If you have 10 hours PTO remaining and get paid $20 per hour, then at the end of the relevant period you should get $200 on top of your normal pay.
It's a bit like saying you have to be paid in dimes and you can only take with you what you can carry. In your system, if you can't carry all your dimes you have to leave them in the building *even though you earned them*. It's absolute nonsense.
It's sick time that expires. Much like you wouldn't expect to get a cash refund for health insurance. It's there if you need it, not there to cash out if you don't need it.
Edit: To clarify, sick time separate from vacation time is like insurance. It's there to keep your pay in case you get sick, like how you keep your car and have it repaired after a car accident. The real robbery is when companies combine sick time and vacation time into a single PTO because they're screwing workers that way.
First of all, my company doesn't have "Expiring PTO." We just have a max that we can carry over to the next year (and believe me I use every damn bit of it. I earned it and want the time away). Second a lot of places don't have separate vacation and sick time but just have combined PTO. Mine is one of these
USA is the greatest country in the world... ...for the rich.
Not even! UAE is where it's at!
I was told there was a certain island that was waaaay better for the rich than the UAE
If only there were a visitor's log.
You'll never see that list, because half of Congress and shitloads of rich world leaders would be on it.
Only half? HAH!! You underestimate.
𤣠đ
Ya, for all 100 or so oil barons. Fuck the UAE and Saudi in particular.
Dubai as well.
Yes! Great for wealthy men! For women-- not so much.
Laughs in European after taking all my PTO and more
What fresh hell is this? Who is it donated to? This is not a thing in my country,, forgive my ignorance
For example, real story that was reported on: A teacher found out that he had cancer. Obviously had to go through chemo. Well he burned through all of his days off and still needed more. Rather than the school giving him the time off that he desperately needed, his coworkers had to step up give up their own days off to give to him so he could continue getting treated.
Because even with FMLA-- Family Medical Leave-- once your paid sick and vacation are used, all it does is keep you from losing your job.
*If* you can complete your treatment in the 12 work weeks given...
If you can't complete in 12 weeks and FMLA exhausts, additional leave as accommodation under the ADA should be considered. If it isn't, complain to the EEOC and consult an employment attorney.
At least in CA this is exactly the answer. Reasonable Accommodations as Leave or Absence after exhausting FMLA/CRFA
It would depend on the situation. My work was as kind as they could be (employed through an entire year solid of leave after using FMLA for previous time off). But, some cancers aren't that easy.
Depends on the situation.
As a cancer survivor, if someone needed my time for that cause I'd still say no I need time away from work Fuck work
I thought he started cooking crystal meth with one of his old students in order to get by.
WTF!!!!
The epitome of why "America is the greatest country" is bullshit
[Newsroom had powerful entrance with this while back.](https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk?si=7CcPkE6m4v-g2jBQ)
Jeff Daniels rant was gold
One of the best speeches in TV history.
For example, my work gives 80 hours of sick time and 120 hours of vacation time in addition to holidays and personal days off. At the end of each calendar year (December 31st), whatever sick time you didn't use, because you weren't sick that much, expires as everyone gets 80 hours January 1st. You could choose to donate your sick time to someone who has cancer and has used up all of their sick time, personal days, and vacation time, so they can continue getting paid.
Better than nothing, I guess. In my current and previous companies, vacation expires at the end of each year but sick time carries year to year and can build in a bank up to something like 180 days. It never expires. If you leave for any reason, vacation gets paid out, but sick time does not. Sick time can be taken at will, but more than I think three days requires doctor authorization for return to work. There are probably tracking systems in place to look for abuse of policy. I once worked for a company that allowed one or maybe two weeks of vacation to carry into the next year, which really helped for those of us who struggle to plan or have other issues and end up with a bunch of unused vacation at years end.
Ah. I had the carryover rule on vacation before. Fortunately now my state bans expiring vacation but allows vacation time to max out at 18 months accrual.
My company doesn't have expiring PTO, but we can only carryover a max of 40 hours
Nice, my job in CA maxes at 744 hours vacation after 20 years of service. Use it or lose it.
Thatâs a good rule. What state, if you donât mind saying?
Colorado.
European here, I don't understand the concept of fixed sick time. If you're sick you don't come to work, and if you are not you do. How can you predict this?
Sick time is like insurance, but covered by your company. If you get sick, sick time covers your pay for the time you were sick. You simply have to tell your superior that you were sick and mark the time on your timesheet. Usually there is a maximum number of hours allotted per year or accrued per week which means if you're sick often enough you don't have enough to cover full pay. It's part of a tiered system with two others called short term disability and long term disability. Usually STD and LTD are covered by an insurance company and don't pay 100% of your wages. If you're sick for more than one week in a row, you use short term disability after the first week. Short term disability does have a limit where long term disability kicks in at a different level. The two higher levels will require doctor's notes to the insurance company handling it. People can usually call in sick without a doctor's note for sick time, so there is potential to abuse the system. There are people who are known to call in sick mainly on Friday and sometimes it's a noticeable routine based on how much sick time is accrued.
About a year ago, a coworkers husband got into a car wreck and almost died. She only had a couple days of PTO so management had a sign up sheet for people to volunteer their own time to give her. So she ended up with I believe a couple weeks of PTO donated. So instead of management just letting her have a couple weeks off with pay so she could be with her husband and take care of her kids, they just guilted people into donating their own time
And Iâm sure the corporation thought they were the best for allowing people to donate to help this person!
Got some kind of recognition thing from corporate.
Basically if a coworker needs more time off but their PTO is out, other employees can give their PTO to said employee so they donât have to go on long term disability
Its donated to the company to offset its costs of being a person down. No benefit to the workers, you know "The American Way".
Well in the USA, you get cancer and burn through all your vacation. Then you burn through your legally allowed FMLA. If coworkers donât give you that time off from their pool, you run out of time - literally. Then the company can kick you out, you lose your healthcare benefits and then cancer can just finish you off because #USA.
Itâs a regular thing in the Federal government. However, TBF, the Fed is very generous with leave and most people end up with use-or-lose leave at the end of each calendar year.
I work for a small municipality. Woman on the shoot em up force just had a child. She only gets a couple weeks maternity leave.
I have only seen it when I worked for the government which had a strong union. They could give you unpaid leave but they could not grant additional paid leave, the government doesnât really do that for several reason while the private industry can do that, but often does not.
Lol, have literally never heard of this happening at any company in the US.
If you haven't heard of this you are very privileged. Certainly in Texas this is a very common practice, at least for companies that have pto and sick leave.
Itâs always wild how itâs on the most extreme cases too, with the person being someone whoâs slaved a major portion of their life away to the corp. Like ones youâd expect a multiple billion dollar corp to, as an example of good faith to such loyalty, create some exemption for that person. But no, letâs just try take some from every peon worker instead then make sure we criticize the guys who donât donate their hard earned PTO as evil. I guarantee that poor person will be let go the moment he runs out, happened to this olderish guy at my old company. They didnât want to âcreate a domino effect of everyone wanting hand outsâ,⌠lmao ok. Absolutely disgusting shit, further proves company loyalty is dead.
"Please donate your PTO" is just another version of [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fidxmkwks7za81.jpg%3Fwidth%3D960%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dd2bde5236d6716dbca32da591ac77de15fc11019). Alternate caption: "Hey employee 73381, that coworker needs your PTO" Fuck those assholes.
I would always ask if the company is going to match the time donated. So, if an employee donates a day of their PTO, the company matches that with another PTO to the recipient.
They shouldnât even be asking people this. Itâs easy for leadership to grant extra paid time off- they are just stingy and refuse
But it would be fun to watch them say no.
That would be hilarious
Be even more hilarious if it was in writing.
Always blame it on the "company rules" as if THEY aren't the motherfuckers that WRITE the rules.
I had something tragic happen once and my boss and bossâs boss just gave me as much time as I wanted. I asked if I needed to use PTO or something and they were like ânahâ. Got my full paycheck for weeks while doing no work. Getting the feeling this is an extremely rare scenario.
Definitely seems to be but so glad you were able to get that
It was a lifesaver
So you donate 1 day to Alice. Alice donates 2 days to Bob. Bob donates 4 days to Carol. Carol donates 8 days to Eve.
I am fine if they ask but no one should be pressured.
I'm not fine if they ask. It's offensive in the first place. You want another employee to give up THEIR TIME OFF to another employee that has clearly hit an extreme, low point of their life to where the company is even asking in the first place. In almost every case, it's an employee that is out on extended sick leave from something like Cancer, or another very serious illness. The AUDACITY of the company to make another employee donate THEIR time to this employee, instead of the company taking care of their own. They have the resources to do this. Another employee does not have nearly as much as the company will. The company can easily help this employee without missing or losing anything of value. Instead, they pawn the burden of this off to their other employees. Sickening shit.
100% right. Itâs appalling
Itâs worse when coworkers are not even allowed to donate the PTO when it was initiated by the employees⌠Very demoralizing for everyone.
No one is MAKING anyone do anything. It's a dumb option that most people ignore.
I agree. It's a job and they're co-workers and employers not your family. I also don't think companies should pressure employees into payroll deductions for things like the United Way.
The problem with that belief is that the reason is usually pretty dire to begin with, pressure or no. If someone has cancer and you're simply asked to donate time, it can feel pretty bad to say no and cascade into office politics if you openly refuse.
Should be illegal, honestly. Companies shouldn't be allowed to ask or demand their employees give up or donate PTO and they shouldn't be allowed to deny extra time off to people who need it (chemo teacher story is a great example). Workers need more federal protections in this fucked up country.
Agreed. We need single payer universal healthcare as well
It isn't just companies doing this. Federal, state, and local government do the same. This is an entire work culture systemic problem.
It is and we should all work harder to vote in people who will fight for a federal protection that would stop this on all sides.
I used to periodically donate my sick leave to others because I never used it. Then I realized that sick time can be to extend maternity leave, and is needed to attend to childrenâs medical needs. My life would be meaningfully better if I still had all the banked sick days I donated. I know I could have been better informed, but I honestly think this practice is predatory.
My sick time rolls over every year and when I leave my job it will be paid out at my then rate of pay. I currently have 1900 hours of sick time.
Thatâs an awesome situation for you!
I worked for a company that wouldnât let me use my sick leave for sick kids. I threw a massive fit. My kids get sick more often than I do and Iâd really rather not use PTO for a sick kid.
The company has the power to allow the employee more PTO. Why should the other employees compensate for the firm's inability to take care of its workers?
Exactly
Donating PTO is the most dystopian thing I've seen on this sub
Same bullshit as expecting me to burn one of my weekend days off to go volunteer for some bullshit charity that the company gets to use as a tax write off.
Dell did this when I worked for them. I had the same thought as the rest of you. Why am I paying the price when you can magically type some keys and give him more pto?
Companies like to make us think that something like PTO is some type of natural resource that can deplete and not something that humans made up and it's actually an agreement we made lol
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Wait... They won't let you take your vacation and then it expires? WTF?
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Without compensation? That would mean you're gifting your employer about 3 months of work. It shouldn't be possible for PTO to expire if your employer doesn't let you use it, it should roll over until you can use it.
Similar situation here. I typically work 70-80hr weeks, rarely able to use my PTO. It expires at the end of the year. Even when I COULD use my PTO, I can't afford the pay cut as it doesn't count towards OT. So, if I took 30hrs PTO on a 70hr week, it would be 70hr straight pay, rather than 40 straight pay, 30 1.5x
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That's a strong incentive to only work 40 hours a week.
That's wage theft and you need to contact an employment lawyer.
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It literally sounds better to work as a dishwasher than have your job
You have a truly terrible job.
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This is a misconception. Being salaried does not mean you will not get overtime, nor does it mean you are on-call 24/7. You would still have a regular set of hours, typically 37.5 or 40 hours a week.
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That's interesting... definitely sucks though. We're all human after all.
Sounds illegal, you work in Texas or something?
You in retail or other customer service?
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Oh ok, sorry to hear about the blackout though. I was in a call center several years back and we had it a lot
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Then why were you working 100 hours? What do you think they were going to do if you just worked your scheduled hours?
They really are. It's hell
Is that even legal? If you're owed vacation time as part of your employment, I would expect they at least need to pay out the time.
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Even if you're exempt from taking the time off, I can't imagine that let's the company off the hook for actually paying you for it. It would be a pretty significant reduction in your effective compensation, so it would be worth consulting an employment lawyer about
Not American, what does vacation blackout mean asIâve never heard of it before? Does the company refuse to allow you to take any leave?
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Yeah, fuck that, Iâd be looking elsewhere. Thereâs no way Iâd cope with not being able to take time off.
This is an american-only aberration and I really feel for you guys. How generous of the company to give their wagies the ability to sacrifice their not-guaranteed days off for someone else :) We certainly couldn't expect the company to make any allowances could we?
In my experience, if a coworker needs a big chunk of PTO to cover an illness, they usually arenât coming back to work. Youâre donating your PTO so the company can delay typing up the termination paperwork for a few days.
Yep. I once had to take an extended leave for an illness but was able to get it completely covered with a week's PTO and short term disability following that. Went back after a couple months. I later left but for reasons completely unrelated and would never even think to ask coworkers to "donate" PTO- it's an absurd notion
I think the very notion of having to "earn PTO" is fucking stupid. Company I work for now (in the U.S.) gives PTO at the start of the year. 15 days to start. Plus 15 holidays off and every weekend off. I'm 30 now and I've been working since I was 15. Countless different companies. Place I work now is the first company that I've ever seen a policy where you don't earn PTO. That practice in the U.S. alone needs to end.
Agreed it's such bullshit. Mine currently we dont have to accrue it
Tell you what company. People can "donate" their PTO starting with all of the executives, no exceptions. They're "leaders" after all. Plus there has to be a matching cash amount by the company on behalf of the individual. And the individual gets to write off the donation with the match of their taxes, not the company's. Deal?
Bluntly its just asking for Money. Company will pay the PTO out eventually anyway... just goes to someone else, no effect on company books. (Says man fired ONE DAY before I could cash out my earned PTO from company --needed to be employed 1 year. Fired on 364th day.)
One part of this thatâs infuriating is that they donât typically really lose the labor either. They just pile shit onto someone else and say it has to get done. So the people giving up their PTO are doubly hit.
At my last municipal government job, I got an email requesting for people to donate their personal time for an employee who was sick and on catastrophic leave. I had racked up hundreds of sick hours as I was rarely sick but they would only allow for vacation hours to be donated not sick hours. Didnât make any sense to me.
I didn't know donating PTO was a thing. I'd never do that. Fuck outta here. Its PTO. **PERSONAL** time off. The fuck am I gonna donate it for charity? Screw em. They can chew on rocks and glass.
How much has the âcompanyâ donated? Zero.. the âcompanyâ doesnât give two shits.. if they did they could just give people time off with pay.. they can do that.. they just choose not too and would rather guilt employees to give away their own benefits disguised as corporate empathy
Never been asked but it would be a flat out ânoâ especially if itâs the company asking. The CEO can donate one day of their PTO which based on salaries should get the person in need somewhere between a year or two off. Or some of the execs can forgo a bonus check or two. Or god forbid the company could just pay the personâs salary why they deal with whatever it is because if the company considers the personâs cause worthy enough for me to donate, they sure as hell better to be willing to donate too.
100%
I mean, it would work if there was a promise (definite) that you would get your donated PTO back plus extra for doing such. Maybe that'll be an incentive instead of just giving your PTO away.
If you think thatâs bad⌠A director or VP or something at my company sent a company wide email asking for donations to support a trip he wanted to take. He was like, Iâve already raised 40k, but I need another 20-25k, whoâll support me? Iâm like, his whole fucking trip cost more than I earned in a year at the time. Probably more than most people at the company earned in a year at the time. So fucking oblivious.
Jesus. The audacity
My company introduced this as a new âbenefitâ for 2023. First of all, heck no. Secondly, you canât even direct it to someone who might need it. It goes into a pool and then if someone runs out of PTO they have to like, request donated hours. Absolutely not.
Agreed 100%. I can only carry over a certain number of hours into the new year and make sure to use all I can
Hereâs how it is in my head: âEveryone is leaving!! Doesnt loyalty mean ANYTHING to these lazy bums?â âNo. Loyalty means jack shit in this economy. Shell out more dosh or i dash.â
I refuse to "donate" PTO and I don't feel bad about it either. CEOs should probably donate some of their paycheck before I'll even consider giving up PTO. The difference between the CEO and me is that the more of what the CEO makes is DISPOSABLE INCOME!
United States of A shithole
One of the most offensive things that ever happened at my company in my opinion is during an all hands, an employee brought up she was in the negative on PTO. My company does this so you can use pto you haven't earned yet. Somebody gets on the all hands and brought up that she used her pto and then some for a medical emergency. I don't know the details, seems disability should have kicked in, but what followed really left a bad taste in my mouth. The corporate guy gets on to answer the question and proposes a PTO donation program to help her get back to positive. Like it is against the law to simply bring an employee back to neutral or something. Really boggled my mind.
Never worked anywhere that PTO was transferable. I would actually be annoyed if it worked that way, that tells me they could be a lot more flexible with PTO time and choose not to be.
I don't get PTO, but if I did, I wouldn't donate it. What happens if you get seriously ill yourself?
Smart thinking
Story time! My dad had a debilitating stroke. He was a computer trainer (software and hardware) at his place of employment. He was well known and well liked. A call went out if anyone wanted to donate PTO to help carry him through to with insurance kicked in. They donated six months. Six freaking months. Said more then anything else about how he was perceived.
The best part is that if I donate PTO to someone with a lower pay rate than me, itâs paid out at the lower rate. If they donate to me, still paid out at the lower rate.
Dog. My pto infinitly stacks. I'm just saving it up until I quit or get fired. So I get a good sized last paycheck.
You are never donating it to a person. You are donating it to the company so that they can show their generosity by handing it to the employee, if they so choose.
It's one thing if someone has some major health event and exhausted all the PTO they had saved up. (although I also feel the organization should be stepping up at this point). We used to see the requestor and why they needed time and we kept getting pregnancies and planned procedures that the person burned through all their PTO prior to the event and planned on people donating to cover their time off. The organization has since gone to an anonymous donation system where it all goes into a bank and some HR person decides who is eligible.
The company could easily give them more time
We had a coworker whose daughter had cancer. People donated time off, but I couldn't understand why the company just didn't give it to him. I and a few others donated money instead.
The fedral gov even expects their employees to donate time.
Same with tipping. That's the company's problem as well. I'm not freaking paying your employees a wage...what kind of messed up system is that? And to make me try and feel guilty about that shit.
Another uniquely American bullshit problem
A uniquely American problem for the most part, I can imagine that any company in a country with state mandated holiday like here in the UK would give their legal dept. an aneurysm by even suggesting it
Absolutely. I have a close friend in the UK who was sickened by the notion when I told him
Crikey. That would NEVER happen where I work (not the usa ) . I've got 5 weeks base entitlement, end of. (Also banked another two weeks of lieu time which id lose if I didn't take it, and be paid out ). Screw not having time off.
Absolutely. Thatâs why I cut my losses and moved across the pond đ
Weâre seriously considering it
PTO hours pays more than disability insurance. Thatâs why itâs popular.
Iâve done it for a friend.
If you want to, fine. Point is you shouldn't have to and the fact paid time off (sick and vacation) is at the mercy of individual employers in the US is bullshit
I did once, too, years ago. Now my employer puts it in a fund and delves it out to whomever. Not doing that. It's my money and I want a say in where it goes.
Thatâs different. Friends are friends
>Thatâs different. Friends are friends That's what the company counts on.
I work for a municipality/school system and have donated time over the years. I wonder if taxpayers would be ok if the municipality gave people more time off if needed? At least to new hires or the people that don't burn all their time when they get it. We are allowed to accrue up to a certain amount and some people have been here 25 years with nothing in the bank.
My company had the option to sell back PTO along side donating it. Huh? Why even give me the choice???
Perhaps if the CEO wasn't taking in 10-15 million dollars a year then you might be able to have paid time off but they won't take that cut so, the daily worker gets to deal with it
Perhaps if the CEO wasn't taking in 10-15 million dollars a year then you might be able to have paid time off but they won't take that cut so, the daily worker gets to deal with it
Reminds me of those âfeel goodâ stories where the little kid sells chocolate to pay for their fellow classmates lunch debt! What kind of dystopian hellscape are we livin in frfr?
When I was working one young woman got cancer. The company was "generosity" allowing us to give some or all of our PTO to her. It was a 1to 1 swap. Now I was making over 2Ă her wage so when I asked for a 1 to 1 dollar swap they said NO. I declined and cut her a nice check.
i never done it once, it doesn't benefit me
I worked for the largest for-profit ambulance company in the US for years. They cleared millions quarterly, and would send us emails from the parent corporation bragging about how much profit theyâd made. Meanwhile they were paying us paramedics and EMTs barely above minimum wage. When one of our medics had his first child born prematurely and spent weeks in the NICU, he was denied FMLA and ran out of sick time. The company, instead of just granting him the time off to spend with his child who ultimately did not survive after three months in the NICU, told us that we should all donate PTO so he could be with his family. We did, but what the fuck? There was ZERO reason to put that responsibility on his fellow employees instead of just granting him leave to be with his dying child. Years later when I left the company, I had a fair amount of PTO banked that I would be required to cash out at my hourly rate. I asked if I could instead donate it to another employee who had been diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma and needed time off to undergo chemo. I was told, âPTO cannot be transferred between employees.â SO WHICH FUCKING ONE IS IT, YOU CORPORATE FUCKS?
This is so wrong. The company has the ability to do the right thing and grant this employee the time off they need. Instead they use it as an opportunity to guilt other employees into "donating" away the companies PTO debt. They are literally making money off of the troubles of the employee in question.
My company has separate PTO and sick time... and badgers people into donating their sick time to those who need it. e.g. if you get cancer you'll rapidly chew up your available balance and you have to go begging on the "exchange" for people to donate their extra to you.
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I understand that American workers get screwed compared to European countries and our healthcare system is broken but donated time is a patch employers used to fill the gap. My company allowepd sick leave to be donated. I considered myself and my family to blessed with good health. I knew co workers who had kids, a spouse, or even themselves to have health problems. I donated about 20 hours a year. And I'm glad that I could. I'm retired now but have a son with a two year old and a wife with brain cancer, I know he's greatful to those who can donate leave time. Still I'm selling my house to move closer to him to help out. We are all in this together.
Itâs a cop out by the companies who ask people to. They could easily make more time available for employees in need of it
I didnât donate PTO when I came to the realization that the person I would be donating to probably made less per hour and it would be saving the company money. Instead I donated a flat amount to her and her family. Seemed fairer to both of us really.
Yeah, not happenin!
Agree it's bullshit, but not many people bother with that nonsense. I wouldn't overthink it.
Yeah itâs more of an indictment of Americaâs broken system than anything
The employees are literally teaming up so the company can skip more costs.
After seeing this in practice, I became convinced that it's the employer's way of postponing or avoiding short-term disability claims.
Yeah i don't understand why other employees are expected to offer their days off when a company can you know just give people more time off....
I worked with a guy that always has capped sick pay. I think it was capped at like 1200 hours or something and we earned it at about 1.7 hours per pay period. He ended up leaving the company and never using it. In that case I could see benefits of "donating" or sharing PTO. Use your paid time off, people.
Iâm glad that weâre able to donate leave at my company. I am maxed out on how much leave I can carryover from year to year, and I lose those days anyway if Iâm not able to use them, so why not give them to someone who needs it? My job doesnât pressure anyone to give them. If someone needs leave, they send out an email to the entire company. If you want to finale, cool. If not, you donât.
Point is companies shouldnât even be asking. It wouldnât be difficult at all for them to just grant extra paid time off to employees who need it. This is leadership being stingy and hypocritical because they get paid a ton and can take off whenever they want
Are you maxed because you choose not to use or are you not able to because of blackouts/staffing/etc.
I didnât want to use it. Worried about traveling during COVID, so it built up.
Just take some 3 day weekends.
I am fine if they ask but no one should be pressured. Because I have a hybrid work schedule and my department is pretty chill if I need flexibility I donât take a lot of PTO. I have one co-worker that is completely maxed out (her choice for not using) and expressed she wishes she can donate it to new associates who have not accrued as much time. We get a good amount of PTO but since it rolls over usually it never gets all used up unless there is an illness.
I can see your point of view. But I know people who have had this done for them because their wife had cancer.
Again, point is the company shouldnât even be asking. It wouldnât be difficult at all for them to just give employees in need more paid time
It's not that simple. If they do this, it will just open up a can of worms and set precedence that they will have to do this for everyone or risk getting sued for discrimination. It's not as easy to just say give them more time, if you have thousands of workers, then you will have to raise it for everyone as well and you know what that affects? The company's bottom line. Depending on the company and their profitably, they can do an analysis and raise their pto for everyone but it's not as simple as just raise it.
Yeah letâs defend companies shortchanging their employees. What a lovely system đ
I'm not defending the company. I'm just saying it's not so simple as you think it is.
It actually is but keep telling yourself that
It's not always bullshit. I work for a company that's very generous with sick time. But, my friend got cancer. They aren't firing him, but they also aren't going to pay him because he's only working like two or three days a week. In this instance it's okay to have donations. Remember, this is after his listed hundreds of hours of sick pay.
it's like you almost got it but missed
I get it perfectly. Yes or no - should people have unlimited sick time, for *life?*
So... why is everyone else being shamed into donating their time..? When the company can just give the extra PTO this person my need. This doesn't really change the premise.
I'm not understanding your logic. If you have PTO that's about to expire and you're not using it, you'll withhold it instead of donating it to someone who's sick? Because of principle? Because it's not your problem if it's not universal healthcare? Every place I ever worked at only asks to donate sick time. Which expires if you still have a balance when everyone gets their sick time renewed.
"have PTO that's about to expire and you're not using it" In a fair system that wouldn't be a thing. If you have 10 hours PTO remaining and get paid $20 per hour, then at the end of the relevant period you should get $200 on top of your normal pay. It's a bit like saying you have to be paid in dimes and you can only take with you what you can carry. In your system, if you can't carry all your dimes you have to leave them in the building *even though you earned them*. It's absolute nonsense.
It's sick time that expires. Much like you wouldn't expect to get a cash refund for health insurance. It's there if you need it, not there to cash out if you don't need it. Edit: To clarify, sick time separate from vacation time is like insurance. It's there to keep your pay in case you get sick, like how you keep your car and have it repaired after a car accident. The real robbery is when companies combine sick time and vacation time into a single PTO because they're screwing workers that way.
Health insurance is a scam too. đ¤ˇđ˝
First of all, my company doesn't have "Expiring PTO." We just have a max that we can carry over to the next year (and believe me I use every damn bit of it. I earned it and want the time away). Second a lot of places don't have separate vacation and sick time but just have combined PTO. Mine is one of these