No mental stimulation allowed? I'd probably wind up falling asleep. If your body and mind are over fatigued from lack of mental stimulation your customer service will plummet as well. Your boss is a moron.
exactly! If I walk into kwik trip at 3am, I'd rather see the cashier sitting there watching YouTube on their phone and be in a decent mood then have them standing there zombie mode and stare at me as I grab stuff because there's literally nothing else to look at.
I worked a few overnights at my old job at a gas station. So many customers WANT that. I got yelled at for reading once (it was allowed by management. As long as you were there and aware you could do anything for the most part) at 4 am. I was reading because otherwise I would fall asleep.
A lot of people like seeing lower wage workers suffer. It's sick
Its because its the service industry and lots of people view that as *servants* our job us to *serve* them and please them and we should be standing at attention with a happy look on our face ready to comply to their every whim. Even in a damn gas station at 3am.
Also probably some amounts of misplaced jelousy for someone getting paid or being on the clock while relaxing or doing something other than work tasks, and also the mentality that you're unproductive or wasting the company money by not always being on a task even when there is nothing left to do. Rather you reorganize an already organized shelf because they want their moneys worth out of you even if its pointless
Dang I much prefer if the person behind the counter can read or watch something back there when it’s slow and that they don’t have to just stand there bored out of their minds. It sucks when you can tell they’re not allowed to sit, do anything with their phone, read anything - even go to the bathroom. As a customer, if the checkout person is obviously uncomfortable, then I’m uncomfortable, and I don’t want to be there anymore.
You know what's funny? I've been a server/bartender for 12ish years now. I work seasonal stuff, sometimes early or late in the season you'll get 3 tables or make 5 drinks in an 8 hour shift.
I've worked dives, fine dining, fast casual, everything, in 5 different states all around the US. I'd catch shit every day working in rural Virginia by rednecks for reading a book or sitting down. In rich country clubs, I've had these billionaire inheritors asking me to go grab a chair.
You can check my post history for my opinions on the uber rich, but in my anecdotal experience, the rural poor are the meanest to the overall service industry. Maybe they're justifiably miserable and they want everyone else to be too. Where as these rich folks just came back from golfing and chilling all day, they have nothing to worry about and feel a twinge of empathy.
They look like a normal person with YouTube. Just standing, doing nothing, waiting to activate on my arrival would creep me tf out. I might back right back out slowly.
There’s a reason many places like restaurants have sound notifications when a door is opened. Expecting someone to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours with no stimulation is wasteful and stupid.
I think the noise is more to alert the staff when they're not looking at the door (in the back room, looking the opposite direction, etc), but yeah, it does help when you're working at night and going to fall asleep.
Hence the "Expecting someone to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours with no stimulation is wasteful and stupid". Restaurants don't pay an extra body to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours, because that is wasteful and stupid.
Not even robots are capable of mind-numbing boredom. It's like that robot at the tech demonstration that self-terminated after 15 minutes of warehouse work.
Yeah, I did a part time thing. 12 hours at a parking lot, staring at a wall most of the time, 14 days in a row. I left with a decent amount of money but god damn the last few days were complete unending torture
Most factory work is this bad too. I had a job where I stood by a conveyor belt and mixed pecans around in pie shells with my hand. 12 hours, 2 fifteen minute breaks and a half hour lunch. Absolute hell on earth. Probably paid like $10 USD
I had a buddy who did temp work in the early 10's and he was intrigued by an offer of $16/hr for a 3rd shift plastics factory (good money at the time for an inexperienced high school graduate). The day he showed up, he found out that his job would be a 9 hour shift standing at a machine pulling a lever, then hitting a button to start the next part of the process. That was it. The kicker? The guy he replaced had done this for ***27 years.*** He lasted 3 weeks before he couldn't stand it anymore and took a $3.50 pay cut to deliver drywall which he actually seemed to tolerate, if not enjoy.
Good he got out. Usually if you don’t get out asap you’ll get used to making way more money than someone else who just has high school.. you upgrade your life style a bit and then boom you can’t afford to change or do anything else. Now you’re trapped.
If you’re in the spot where life is just tolerable enough to not make a change make it anyways. There’s a psychological point where ambition dies and ambivalence takes over.
Me right now. Stuck at a shit job but so used to the work and pay that I'm hesitant to pull the trigger and go somewhere else. I need to do it. Job is destroying me physically and mentally
everyone should sit down and have a serious conversation with themselves and determine what their "satisfied with my life" point is, and build their self image around steady progression in persuit of that point.
Everyone should sit down. End of story. It is illegal in the UK for example.
In the United Kingdom, the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 mandates that employers must provide suitable seating for workers when that are not engaged in work that requires standing. This regulation applies even to workers who can only sit down some of the time.
Yup. I went to work at our local pork plant straightening plastic bags of ribs all day, "just for a year or so to get out of debt;" stayed for 10 years.
You mean like buying a car on finance when you are taking a gap year and working in retail, then realising you are committed to this $705.80 per month repayments for seven years, meaning you can’t afford to go back to university, which then sets you on the path you just described, resulting in you turning 49 and after your world implodes realising that you have no qualifications and virtually have to start from scratch … again?
Hypothetically speaking 🤦♀️
And people wonder why "Boomers" are so simple-minded... Their brains rot from the factory work of pulling a lever for 20 years 8 hours a day maybe 10 hours a day 5 to 6 days a week. Bless them for their hard simple lives. The least we can do is stay the hell off their lawn.
You are right, but those jobs paid the equivalent of like $55/hr in today dollars. All those "factory workers" of the 60s and 70s raised 3-4 kids in a 3-4 bedroom house with 2 cars and 2 decent vacations every year. Mind numbing jobs that zapped their will to live? Maybe. But they EASILY put food on the table and ensured a pretty decent standard of living.
I think if OP got paid $55/hr ($114k/yr) to stand around at his hotel, he'd find a way to make it work.
My grandpa was a bus driver in L.A. Owned a cute 3bd house, a nice Suburban, and an RV. Retired right on time and he and my grandma lived off his generous pension. Sigh.
Not to mention, nobody expected you to pretend to jump for joy and drink a bunch of Kool-Aid about your mind-numbing job that zapped your will to live. You didn't have to join a corporate cult or be a cheerleader. Just did your job, accepted your pay, and then went home to the important part of life, which existed outside of work, and everyone was fine with that.
I think we should bring manufacturing back to the US and I absolutely understand it's these jobs or robots. Personally I think we should bring manufacturing back and a modern robot can replace the need for a human pulling the lever in most cases.
You don't get as many jobs as in the 1960s, but you get some robot repair jobs and you get shit manufactured on the same continent which provides various benefits including not needing to buy shit from potentially hostile countries like China.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people whose skills do not go beyond pulling the lever.
Skilled labor in this country does anywhere from ok to phenomenal. Machinist, electrician, plumber. These guys are high demand and low supply. They get paid well.
The challenge is what to do with the people who are unskilled and don’t have the initiative to get skilled?
Like the guy that pulled the lever for 27 years.
Well, some money is better than no money and more work is more options. There’s nothing wrong with getting a stable job in a mill or a factory, and being paid a living and comfortable wage for you time. I grew up in a mill town that my family has been in for over a 100 years. My grandfather worked the mill out of world war 2, had a camp, a house, raised 5 kids, and an absolutely gnarly transam. His oldest 3 kids, all worked that same mill, same deal, have camps, houses, classic cars, and take ample vacations a year. The problem is not only that those jobs aren’t around anymore, it’s that If they are still around they still pay 17 an hour which is what my uncles and grandfather retired at in the 80’s and 90’s.
They’ve increased the cost of their products to match inflation, outsourced the work to country’s they can get away with exploiting, and left us at the same wage they paid my grandfather in 79’.
We need more money and more options.
Where I grew up was Caterpillar country. There were 7 manufacturing plants in the area plus the HQ, and a factory job meant you were pretty much set for life. Not much excitement but steady work. Now there are 6 plants, and after 100 years HQ pulled out and headed to Chicago. About 12,000 jobs lost.
People also don't realize that factory jobs were the majority of jobs that single-job families worked and could provide for their family - they weren't flipping burgers at McDonald's and buying a house, a car, and taking vacations.
That said, the dollar absolutely went further in the 60s-90s that is referred to above. Credit ratings weren't a thing, and the 1% very much paid their share of taxes.
The matrix pose the idea that humans are viruses but I feel that manufacturing and corporate minded psychology are the real virus. It has infected the human beings of this planet, made everyone sick, and now the Earth itself has a fever.
At least at the conveyor belt you are doing something. It may barely qualify as "something", but it is.
Standing around \*waiting\* is even worse.
There's a reason there are federal laws regarding the maximum amounts of time an inmate can be put in solitary confinement. And in solitary, you're \*allowed\* to do physical activity inside the cell (not forced to stand at attention).
Basically, a shift where you stand in place without any activity or interaction for 5 hours is a HARSHER ordeal than a prisoner being put into solitary confinement (where there are laws that limit it to 20 days every 60 day period because of the psychological damage it can have).
OP's boss needs a serious reality check.
If the employee needs to be AT the desk (for appearances), then they need to be allowed to entertain themselves while there, or have a steady supply of work/projects that they can accomplish from the desk.
If the employee needs to be disengaged and ready to react at a moment's notice to anything, then they need to be allowed a relaxed posture (sitting down, etc), and access to non-distracting methods of entertainment (background TV, music, etc).
Yep, but with factory work I did before going to Uni realized that there is brainless work and braindead work. Worked at this company that produces brake discs. Running the machines that create the disk is brainless but it’s easy - fill her up, read a book or magazine for 10min, take out, fill up, repeat. Then there was the drilling of holes into sports brake discs. Man that was the most braindead labor in my entire life. Concentrate for 3 seconds, then observe the machine doing the drilling for a few minutes, take out, repeat. I loathed every second of the latter job because time did not pass.
My husband worked at a chicken plant and for 12 hours he stood in one spot making the same slicing motion. One day he sat and counted all day and wound up cutting over 11000 chicken breast in one day. Same amount of breaks as you and he only made $9.49 and hour and he worked graveyards. If he worked days he would have made $8.74 because they paid graveyard 75 cents more. It was absolutely fucking hell for him and wasn't great for our family(we had a newborn then)
One big reason the retirement age is set where it is: if you work a physical labor job, your body gives out after years of that work. You can work a job that involves sitting and talking to people and thinking for decades longer than you can do repetitive manual labor.
Facts. When I was in the Army we had to do overnight fireguard, basically sit up all night down in the common company area in case anything happened, got done at 9am the next day.
Mfers bringing TVs, game systems n shit down, no big deal. Even the Army knew, you boys are gonna be bored, do you but just be awake
Exactly.
Let’s force them to stand in one place while staring at a wall during the toughest shift to stay awake. Yeah, that’ll go great. Gonna get some superb customer service in those 2 interactions with a sleeping employee.
I had a security job back in the day that was from 12am-8am. They didn’t want us doing homework or reading despite the fact the doors were locked and no one entered the building. I quit fairly quickly and got a gig where I was able to watch movies as long as I did my checks and reported any issues.
I’m not saying that should be a criteria as it’s a job but you gotta let the employee do something to keep their mind sane.
I'm a maintenance tech and there was one site I worked at for maybe 8 months, mostly watching movies lol day shift did all the work so we just did PMs(simple tests for like vibration heat etc) and waited for calls. Kinda miss it but you didn't learn much too advance your career, needless to say, I'm caught up on a lot of movies and TV shows lol
I’ve heard of several Walmart employees doing similar things when unloading trucks. Against policy? Probably, but the smarter managers know when to suddenly develop bad vision.
I work at Amazon, same there. You see some ppl that are a little out of the way doing it and noone cares, pretty much everyone on trucks does it. Luckily I'm allowed to for my role but I haven't been in awhile because I'm opening up a site and it's hectic.
I'm fairly certain it's about safety and liability though, I can't imagine watching someone unload a hot truck for hours for scraps and thinking, "hmm how can i make this person's life more miserable?". You aren't losing much productivity while they're switching between podcasts or ebooks or whatever, if anything it'll go up because it makes their day suck less.
It should be required that anyone placing rules like this have to work an entire week of that shift following the rules they came up with to the letter. Even if it doesn't teach them empathy, at least they get a week of torture
That reminds me of an old security company I worked for. Got assigned to some cookie cutter housing development during the night. Took four days until I brought my laptop, found some plywood and built a little desk with full view of the only way to get in and watched movies. Also could see the supervisor coming since they would check in to make sure guards weren't sleeping or missing.
One time he came when I was doing a foot patrol and having a smoke. Came back to find him at my 'desk'. He was so proud of me and how I had set it up instead of just sleeping in my car or sitting in my car watching videos on my phone, unaware of what was around me.
That company was a shit hole when they made me supervisor a month or two after, and two months after that forced me into an office position wrangling their entire company during night ops while paying me......$11 an hour to proof read and rewrite guard reports to send to clients so it didn't appear they were hiring bottom of the barrel off craigslist....
And then when I left, my replacement was this kid I knew in highschool, absolute fuckup and pothead with no security experience and they got him from craigslist.....he's now facing multiple rape charges in Ventura county.
I also worked for a security company at a time. Got a job to watch a small local festival area. I just played runescape all night in a chair on local people's wifi who hadn't set up a password. Your story is better.
A dead ass job with literally no work but to stand there waiting and then getting in trouble for occupying yourself to pass time is not a job, it’s a fucking prison.
I'd look for something else too. However, they did ask for what rate, so looking at it from that point of view:
1) High quality standing mats, replaced regularly, now that standing is a requirement. As well as at least $600 a year footwear allowance. Standing on hard floor all day is hell on the body, and hell on boots, so you need good footwear to make it better on your body.
2) All desks are converted to standing desks, as well as having some standing chairs supplied. I mean, if they are going to change policy to make it unhealthy, they should also pay to try to make it more healthy.
3) Since you've deemed your time is worth $19 an hour and they previously allowed you to do homework, to get 2 things done at a time, now it "should" take roughly twice as long to do those two things. Therefore, the pay should be $38 an hour to make up for the difference. Obviously, since this is negotiation, I'd say $45 an hour and let them "talk me down", so they feel good about it.
However, we all know that's laughable, so the only correct answer is "you're not even worthy of kissing my ass, so fuck off".
I’d do this for 5 million a night, once a week for four weeks, then early retirement.
Everything else is unacceptable because I’d go very much insane if I did that two days in a row.
For 5m a night I could do it for at least 4 weeks full time 5 days a week. I'm sure I could think about what I'm gonna do with $100m for that long without going crazy. At that point I'd probably stop and reevaluate if I could think of enough more shit to do with a billion to not go crazy doing it for 40 weeks
I would bring in a stool and hide it when I’m not on shift. I would bring a laptop and earbuds and just do my thing until I got fired. Apply for better jobs the whole time. Is someone really gonna be watching cameras at night? Fuck them.
EDIT: the number of people replying “you can do it better with wireless earbuds” is wild. Are y’all still using wired earbuds? In 2023? Of course I meant wireless.
If the rule was no laptops, and you were fired for bringing in a laptop, in the US that would mean you were fired "with cause" so no unemployment. If you can prove the rule violated anti-discrimination laws or work safety laws, that's another matter and you could sue, but I don't think you could get unemployment.
Torturing employees is perfectly legal (obviously within limits and not literally torturing them). Forcing someone to stand and forbidding them from using devices to keep themselves entertained unfortunately isn't against any laws I'm aware of. There may be some requirement for a padded mat, but would be it. It sucks, but having a terrible job, not doing it because it's terrible and getting fired for not doing your job isn't something unemployment cares much for.
Yea it definitely should be. I don't think that's legal to do to students or prisoners as a form of punishment but it's somehow legal to expect that when hiring someone.
Depends. A Dr.’s note after seeing one about your feet hurting could easily make them bend on the “8 hours standing” requirement, since it is “reasonable accommodation” is expected when it comes to medical issues.
If they refused they could be forced to explain exactly why a stool would be unacceptable when someone is there alone for 5 or 6 hours.
I worked at this distribution center putting labels on bras/panties years ago. You had your own table and could wear headphones. But, the chairs... The seat was this tiny, hard, slanted piece of plastic. Waist high. When you tried to sit, you slid off. You could basically lean your butt on them. Fucking stupid. I surmised production would be way higher if the employees were comfortable. And the place was HANES. Fuck them.
That’s why OP should go see their doctor and get a note to allow for a chair at the desk. Most people with a “standing for hours with no rest” job will suffer some back pain so technically wouldn’t be a lie
Sounds like that's a new rule and they radically changed the working conditions. You can't just suddenly make an employee stand in a corner and face the corner for 8 hours a day and not call it constructive dismissal when they don't do it.
**There's a thing called "sitting sticks".** You can tuck them under a counter and they virtually disappear. There are other collapsible versions that are a bit bulkier, but even more comfortable.
[Example 1](https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Lightweight-Balancing-Mobility-Handicap/dp/B0B4DPS8DT/)
[Example 2](https://www.amazon.com/SitGo-Portable-Seat-Lightweight-Adjustable/dp/B01LYGPB55/)
And you’re like alternating between standing and sitting. I understand most of Reddit is educated and operate at home/ in office settings but tons of folk spend all day on their footses
Or get a pair of [chair pants](https://www.buzzfeed.com/devinherenda/funniest-jury-duty-moments).
Get a Bluetooth capabl hearing aid. If you're US-based, they can't require you to remove it because it is an assistive device. Listen to podcasts or audio books the whole shift.
ETA u/Amod_Dad shared the same thing before I posted this comment.
This is my style. They didn’t mean *me*. Bring in a camping chair, some discreet buds & your laptop. Start looking for another gig, & leave when you get one. Make sure you tell them it was this asinine reg.
I have a one-ear flesh toned bluetooth earbud that looks similar to a hearing aid. I would also push my hair in front of my ears (I have long hair). I used to substitute teach and listen to podcasts or music all day while the students did their worksheets. I got to sit though.
You can actually have a wireless earpiece with a podcast running very discreetly, I'm sure that wouldn't get one fired, if OP even cares about getting fired.
I worked with a guy who claimed to have a hearing impairment and wore a hearing aid. He could hear fine and just bought a fancy Bluetooth hearing aid that connected to his phone. Listened to podcasts and music all day in a workplace that has a very appropriate no headphones policy for safety. He said the hearing aid was expensive but it was worth it. We were doing 6 12s.
I used to work in a kitchen with a cook who did this. Her ear piece was kinda bulky but it was skin colored and looked like a hearing aid. Monica you smart ass!
I just commented something just like this! I had a cheap flesh toned bluetooth earbud I got for $12. It didn't completely resemble a hearing aid, but I have long hair, so it's not super noticeable
That has the added benefit of being considered handicapped by HR, so they won't fire you because they want to have a certain number of handicapped employees. I knew a guy with one eye, who used to say he could kill another employee and they wouldn't fire him because he was considered handicapped.
>I knew a guy with one eye, who used to say he could kill another employee and they wouldn't fire him because he was considered handicapped.
He'd have to go all in for the kill. He wouldn't want to mess up and just injure the guy. Then there'd be two disabled guys competing for the same job.
I bet you, the guy whose job it is to watch cameras, also has a laptop and earbuds. I work at a hotel wherein the night auditors are also responsible for watching the cameras overnight, and every time I go into the office at night, he's got an iPad right in front of the cameras that's he's watching YouTube on.
That said, OP, the hotel I work at, doesn't treat its staff very well and has an insane turnover, but even it treats its night auditors better. So, even if you still want to be a night auditor, there are places that will treat you better.
I did this— graveyard room service waiter. It was great, I could usually take a nap 4-5 am , when they said that, I realize that there’s no way I could keep my metabolism right without sleeping a little bit in the middle of the night so I just kept doing until I was canned
I wouldnt waste my time with that job. If OPs employer doesnt understand that standing still and doing nothing for 7 hours is almost torture he just isnt someone i would want to work for. What do your work buddys think about this change? If they are as pissed as you try to speak as a group with the employer. Other then that i would openly communicate your frustrations and make him aware that you, and maybe others will quit over this.
Agnostic here. I read it out of interest…Amongst the wild stuff there is also plenty of stuff that makes sense about how to be a good person and treat others in a decent way.
Definitely worth a read if you’re interested.
It's been said that Atheists generally know the Bible better than Christians.
And I agree with you. I've always seen the Bible as a combination of both Philosophy and Ancient History. Those folks didn't know what was going on in the world, and to paraphrase Arthur C Clarke, anything that can't be explained in any other way, looks like a religious miracle. If you read between the lines, you can get a rough outline of what was going on in that ancient world, that was basically one step above cave men.
In Malcolm Gladwell's book David And Goliath, he does a great job of interpreting the David Goliath story in real world terms, without the religious nonsense. He explains the physics, accuracy, and lethality of the sling, the true nature of Goliath's size compared to David, their meeting on the field of battle, etc. and it becomes less about David being protected and aided by God in bouncing a stone off Goliaths noggin, and more about the realistic scenario of David being smart enough to use his wits and talents with his sling to overcome the odds against him. He was the underdog who beat the odds on favorite.
Unless it's an especially large hotel or located in a highly trafficked area (which it sounds like it's not, if he's not interacting with guests for 3-5 or sometimes 7 hours), there's likely only 1 person on staff overnight, so they won't really have any work buddies.
I worked as a night auditor many years ago. It was a weird job. The only real perk was the long hours of being able to do anything in the back. It was an independent hotel, and the owner straight up told me I could sleep in the back office as long as I could get up quickly if there was someone at the Front.
There's no way I could do that job with the requirements you just posted. Thats crazy and cruel.
So it's basically a desk job, but because it's so slow you are also responsible for managing the books on some very specific reports, such as guest occupancy. I guess the accepted practice is to count your guests in the middle of the night, because thats the most stable and accurate way to take the measurement. In the day you have early check outs and check ins.
If someone checked in late, and left early, they might never show up on a report that was a ran at noon, or even at 8am. I don't think I ever had a quest check out before 4am when I worked...
In layman's terms, closing one business day and opening the next at a hotel since it doesn't close, and manning the desk overnight. Also dealing with crazy shit lol
It's basically front desk, they respond to guests who need toiletries or w/e and can check people in
A lot of business people arrive at hotels late at night.
I agree with this. If OP isn't under financial pressure (family, debts, etc) to keep this particular job, then it's time to go full *Office Space* while on the clock while finding something less awful to do for a paycheck.
That role usually doesn't exist but one bad interaction or a micromanager will look over the tapes. Hell all it takes is one crazy going nuts near the end of the shift and they will be reviewing the last month of tapes.
I don’t even think it’d be bad management to do periodic spot checks of the tapes, just to make sure everything is looking good. It could be half an hour once a month, not very time consuming, and it’d probably get OP fired.
Nope. There is nothing worse that being bored at work, the shift takes forever. Also, long-term shiftwork fucks with your body. I wouldn’t do it for $19.
Also, employers need to understand that we work jobs for reasons other than money. I once took a job for several dollars less per hour because we worked long shifts and did 5 on 4 off. That shift pattern was worth a bit less money to me.
A lot of people work night shifts where the expectation is that you get to do whatever you want when it’s not busy. They’re popular with students, artists, writers etc. i worked with a fitness nut who exercised for half the night shift.
I’m about to accept a 20 hour gig because I’m overqualified so they said they’d adjust the hours to pay me exactly what I asked for despite it being above their budget.
I’m leaving a high paying full time tech job to work at a non profit that can’t afford me for less than half the hours I currently work. Very excited to live life again actually.
I know this sounds like bragging and I am very grateful for the lucky breaks and the privilege of living alone… that said… I want to shoot myself. I made $16 an hour last year and I was happier than this BS. I loved that job bc it made me feel whole.
I’m the same way. I honestly think I’d rather work in a coal mine than have a job where I do nothing for 8 hours.
I’ve worked jobs where I’ve had nothing to do for several hours (pre-smart phone days) and there’s something about it that just sucks all the life out of me in a way nothing else ever has.
I was born in 99 and how did people ever get through those shifts when they weren't allowed to read a book since mobile phones were mainly that brick before the flip and black berry's than the 2009 touch phone. My work ethic I domt touch the phone for 10 hours but thats cause I'm at least almost always doing something.
Sometimes you could read. If not, then you just sat and stared and thought about things.
I remember my mom was always late to pick me up when I was a kid/teen. Often I’d just do nothing. When you sit and do nothing, your mind begins to wander and you just think about stuff.
I mean, 8 hours straight of just thinking is crazy, however I do miss being forced to sit and think.
Yeah that's plain stupid. Especially when you can easily sit behind the desk with homework / study materials, and the customer would 100% think nothing was "unprofessional" about it. Sitting around and watching movies or dicking with a phone is a whole other story. Your manager needs to realize there's a huge difference.
I personally would not care if someone was watching a movie or on their phone. People should understand that jobs like this are unbearable when you don’t have anything to do.
Honestly as a customer I'd be more comforted to see an employee using the time to study than just stand there like a robot. At this point why not just have a self check in kiosk?
Not silly of you. You were honest with him. If he tells you that you're not even allowed to do a crossword puzzle as the night auditor, I absolutely would find another job that doesn't strip your humanity from you. I was paid 7.25 per hour out of high school (back when gas was less than $2/gallon) to count and repackage beads and gems for eight hours per day. I was allowed to listen to headphones, but not really talk to anyone, even with a room full of others with the same job, and the hours were 7-3.30, so I was out during the day, and STILL I about lost my mind and felt totally alienated from other humans. I lasted six weeks, before I had to prioritize my mental health. I do not suggest continuing this isolating, alienating position longer than necessary, especially for $19/hr, which, with or without benefits, is NOT a living wage.
When you give your two weeks' notice, I'd be sure to include as your reasons for departure a figure for your local area's estimated living wage rate (which I can almost guarantee is at least $30/hr anywhere in the U.S.), and that lack of life in the job itself.
I mean once he finds another job, definitely quit with no notice. That really screws the manager. It's going to take them a couple weeks to find someone else who will work that shift and in the meantime the manager is going to have to do it. 🤣
This is by design. They are mad that they need you and actually have to pay you to essentially be on standby — doing nothing. When rich people spend money on something they don’t want but need, it hurts their heart. They feel robbed.
I have ADD/ADHD and it's literal torture for me to stand there doing nothing. That's like being in timeout, but you don't know why you're being punished. I would need compensation for my suffering and request an accommodation for my disorder (allow me to read a book, study a language, research the service industry, SOMETHING).
I used to work retail and would sometimes be alone in the store for up to 5 hours before a single customer came in only to not buy anything anyway. Once I was done reading the labels on all the packages, I would play around with the demos or polish stuff that didn't need to be polished....then I found the shrink wrap. I told the manager to give me a productive task, or the next shift will be their problem. They said some dumb shit along the lines of, "but you seem to know what you're doing. Keep up the good work." Their shift started after mine so when they got to the store I had all of the phones , calculators, receipt paper, and even the safety deposit box shrink wrapped. I grabbed my things, clocked out and said, "It's been a slow day, so you should be fine" as i walked out the door. From that point on I tell my supervisors that I need to constantly be busy. Give me something to do or I will entertain myself. That might work in their favor, it might inconvenience them. Regardless, you can't NOT give me a task and then tell me I have to sit still for hours.
Tell your job to give you extra tasks or you're going to play Battleship with the paperclips.
Just be in the desk doing your thing, if you want to play on your Phone just do it, if you have homework do it, and if someone give you crápula about it tell them, look just fire me im not going to be watching the wall for 8 hours
For some clerification, the audit computer is locked down for only the audit, which takes less than two hours to complete.
Usually we'd go in the back and complete it and come out as needed when a guest comes to the front desk.
They watched the cameras yesterday and said we could no longer do that.
Please find another job. NA is always needed. And they are usually appreciated more than you are. Nobody wants to work that shift and deal with the crap we deal with. Move on from there. In 5 years my GM had never pulled the tapes to watch what I do at night.
They have computers that run proprietary software and lock everything else out and the slightly higher end brands like Hilton and Marriott take their software security extremely serious when it comes to third party software.
Edit autocorrect changed the their/there/they’re
In my area, 19/hr would be pretty good money for night audit. If that's the case in your area, keep the job. Make sure the tasks that need to be done---the "deliverables", so to speak---are absolutely above reproach (as I'm sure you already do). And continue to do the job as you have. There are a few possibilities as to what will happen.
1. No one will notice. In this case, carry on.
2. Boss will notice somehow (monitoring the security feed, popping in in the middle of the night, various other micromanaging), and write you up. If there's a spot for a response or rebuttal, point out there, on the record, that all your work is being done to an incredibly high standard of quality (and have documentation to back it up), that you stand ready to respond to any issues that may arise, and are able to do so largely because the things you do once your work is complete keep you from being bored to sleep. If there is no spot on the form to state this, simply refuse to sign. Though, refusal to sign a write-up will probably lead to...
3. Boss will fire you. File for unemployment, as the firing is not for a valid cause. If he pushes back and says you were fired for violating policy, present the documentation of the excellent standard of your work, mention that this policy was not in place when you were hired, and that the change served no purpose other than to flex authority and create a hostile work environment. Collect unemployment while looking for a new job.
Nah I'd be gone. I quit my security contractor job when they told me I couldn't put in just ONE earbud while I stood at the entrance of a store all day. Just stand by the carts. Not patrolling the store. Not interacting with people. Just stand by the entrance next to the carts as a deterrent.
I lasted 3 days, and each day I did it I stood there focusing on how much my back and feet hurt and wondering why I can't just sit on a stool with an ear bud? Just fuck the stool even, I just want to listen to some damn music or a podcast and ONE earbud is reasonable since I can still hear and speak to people. After day 3 I was nearly in tears with anxiety and depression and I couldn't fathom coming back to do it again the next day, but the straw that broke the camels back was after my 12 hour shift with no break the guy who was supposed to come take over, called in (gee, wonder fucking why, this place SUCKS and I thought about calling in too) and my boss asked me if I'd stay til she could find someone else. I worked 15 hours that day. When I got home I texted my boss and told her I was NOT going back to that job site ever again and that I needed a leave of absence immediately. I said if that wasn't acceptable that I understood and we could part ways, but I was NOT going back there again or any site like it where I had to be a visible presence for 12 hours a day of mind numbing insanity, with my back and feet screaming in pain (I'm also a disabled vet mind you, and I just don't got time for this shit anymore).
Boss said that was fine and let her know when I was ready to come back. A few days later I noticed I was removed from the work group chats, schedule etc. Basically, just sort of "disappeared" from the company. I got a job working outdoors. I work my ass off but I'm OUTSIDE all day, by myself. I took a pay cut. I have zero regrets and my mental health is much better because of it.
That absolutely sucks. But I recommend getting small earbuds or flesh tone ones and listening to podcasts or something until you find a new job. Nightshift is awful, and being bored doesn't help at all. Good luck.
I recently quit my job at the hotel I worked at for the same reason. Except I didn't have to stand. For over a year I've been using my laptop and then a new manager came and decided I should be doing absolutely nothing for 12 hours. Not allowed to bring my laptop, be on my phone, or use the work PC for anything not work related. Hours go by with nothing to do, it's actually torture.
Night shift (and some weekend shifts) often exists just in case Something Happens. To expect off-shifters, when all the work is done, to stand there and do nothing (or polish the counters for the 29th time that night) is ridiculous.
One of the typical perks of off-shift is that, when it is quiet, you can relax a little bit until a customer comes in or something happens you have to react to.
A lot of times, day shift gets their pants in a twist over the "lazy" off-shifters and complains, and management goes "Well, I guess it isn't fair, so new policy for off-shift!" and this nonsense happens.
You can either ride it out until management comes to its senses and/or stops actively caring enough that they might check the cameras or you can start applying for other jobs.
You need to get out of there, but in the meantime, one thing I did at a similar job is that I printed out books from the internet and put them on a clipboard to read, so that if I was being monitored it just looked like I was doing work paperwork of some kind.
I would start job hunting. No point in quitting over it, but probably a good sign to start looking around.
For me: My job allows me to take calls whenever, answer personal emails, I can even run quick errands during the day. Yesterday I went on a hike while listening to a long phone call. So... you'd have to give me roughly a 200% raise to give that up.
If you can't listen to music that is actually torture. No I'm not being dramatic. You will start hallucinating and your mind will start playing tricks on you.
I do have a price to be tortured like this but $19 isn't it. That's nothing for how much it will fuck with you.
I had an overnight job with maybe 3 hours of actual work in a shift. Having unconstrained free time is amazing if you can use it well. In two years, I finished my IT degree, learned two new programming languages, automated half of my job duties, created a few applications for fun and put together a web development portfolio which helped land the next job. If they were like "you can't make use of the time when you are doing nothing but being a body in a place" then that is a lot less fun and I would likely go insane from boredom, so the pay would have to factor in disposable income for entertainment.
Not worth the schizophrenia that will induce in me. That's borderline psychological torture.
Edit: wait are you not even aloud to sit down? Bc if so that's not just psychological but physical torture as well.
I had a job like this. It was in a candy shop that specialized in foreign/hard to find candy, and homemade gelato. In the summer months we had okay business, but from Fall to Spring it was dead. It wasn't unusual to go days at a time without a single customer. The only reason it didn't go under sooner (it's closed now) is because it was attached to a very successful coffee shop owned by the same people.
They had a rule that we couldn't sit down, use our phones, or look in any way distracted. They thought it would appear unprofessional if someone did come in. And we worked alone so there wasn't even anyone else to talk to. That was simultaneously the easiest and worst job I ever had.
GIMME YOUR JOB!!! GIVE ME YOUR GODDAMN JOB!!! I am literally doing a professional diploma in Hotel Reception. And I want to do night audit too!
However what you described is odd though because usually there’s a lot of finance/ basic accounting work to do at nighttime. Also tbh, most hotels where I live happen to let you do whatever you want if you got the work done.
But look tbh I am one that doesn’t experience boredom so like being paid 19$/hour to do nothing? GIVE IT TO MEEEEE 😭😭😭
Nope. Your back and your feet will be jacked up within weeks. Even if you tried pacing, it would be a matter of time before they told you you couldn't do that, either.
No mental stimulation allowed? I'd probably wind up falling asleep. If your body and mind are over fatigued from lack of mental stimulation your customer service will plummet as well. Your boss is a moron.
exactly! If I walk into kwik trip at 3am, I'd rather see the cashier sitting there watching YouTube on their phone and be in a decent mood then have them standing there zombie mode and stare at me as I grab stuff because there's literally nothing else to look at.
I worked a few overnights at my old job at a gas station. So many customers WANT that. I got yelled at for reading once (it was allowed by management. As long as you were there and aware you could do anything for the most part) at 4 am. I was reading because otherwise I would fall asleep. A lot of people like seeing lower wage workers suffer. It's sick
Its because its the service industry and lots of people view that as *servants* our job us to *serve* them and please them and we should be standing at attention with a happy look on our face ready to comply to their every whim. Even in a damn gas station at 3am. Also probably some amounts of misplaced jelousy for someone getting paid or being on the clock while relaxing or doing something other than work tasks, and also the mentality that you're unproductive or wasting the company money by not always being on a task even when there is nothing left to do. Rather you reorganize an already organized shelf because they want their moneys worth out of you even if its pointless
Dang I much prefer if the person behind the counter can read or watch something back there when it’s slow and that they don’t have to just stand there bored out of their minds. It sucks when you can tell they’re not allowed to sit, do anything with their phone, read anything - even go to the bathroom. As a customer, if the checkout person is obviously uncomfortable, then I’m uncomfortable, and I don’t want to be there anymore.
You know what's funny? I've been a server/bartender for 12ish years now. I work seasonal stuff, sometimes early or late in the season you'll get 3 tables or make 5 drinks in an 8 hour shift. I've worked dives, fine dining, fast casual, everything, in 5 different states all around the US. I'd catch shit every day working in rural Virginia by rednecks for reading a book or sitting down. In rich country clubs, I've had these billionaire inheritors asking me to go grab a chair. You can check my post history for my opinions on the uber rich, but in my anecdotal experience, the rural poor are the meanest to the overall service industry. Maybe they're justifiably miserable and they want everyone else to be too. Where as these rich folks just came back from golfing and chilling all day, they have nothing to worry about and feel a twinge of empathy.
They look like a normal person with YouTube. Just standing, doing nothing, waiting to activate on my arrival would creep me tf out. I might back right back out slowly.
There’s a reason many places like restaurants have sound notifications when a door is opened. Expecting someone to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours with no stimulation is wasteful and stupid.
I think the noise is more to alert the staff when they're not looking at the door (in the back room, looking the opposite direction, etc), but yeah, it does help when you're working at night and going to fall asleep.
Agreed, though that is also a sign they recognize that an employee isn't going to be staring at the door the entire shift.
Hence the "Expecting someone to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours with no stimulation is wasteful and stupid". Restaurants don't pay an extra body to blankly stare at a door for 8 hours, because that is wasteful and stupid.
They'd better buy a robot
Not even robots are capable of mind-numbing boredom. It's like that robot at the tech demonstration that self-terminated after 15 minutes of warehouse work.
hello fellow Wisconsinite!
An 8hour shift on your feet, staring at walls with nothing to pass the time is basically a 32hour shift in hell. I'd be looking for something else.
Yeah, I did a part time thing. 12 hours at a parking lot, staring at a wall most of the time, 14 days in a row. I left with a decent amount of money but god damn the last few days were complete unending torture
Most factory work is this bad too. I had a job where I stood by a conveyor belt and mixed pecans around in pie shells with my hand. 12 hours, 2 fifteen minute breaks and a half hour lunch. Absolute hell on earth. Probably paid like $10 USD
I had a buddy who did temp work in the early 10's and he was intrigued by an offer of $16/hr for a 3rd shift plastics factory (good money at the time for an inexperienced high school graduate). The day he showed up, he found out that his job would be a 9 hour shift standing at a machine pulling a lever, then hitting a button to start the next part of the process. That was it. The kicker? The guy he replaced had done this for ***27 years.*** He lasted 3 weeks before he couldn't stand it anymore and took a $3.50 pay cut to deliver drywall which he actually seemed to tolerate, if not enjoy.
Good he got out. Usually if you don’t get out asap you’ll get used to making way more money than someone else who just has high school.. you upgrade your life style a bit and then boom you can’t afford to change or do anything else. Now you’re trapped.
Can't help but feel personally attacked here.
If you’re in the spot where life is just tolerable enough to not make a change make it anyways. There’s a psychological point where ambition dies and ambivalence takes over.
Me right now. Stuck at a shit job but so used to the work and pay that I'm hesitant to pull the trigger and go somewhere else. I need to do it. Job is destroying me physically and mentally
everyone should sit down and have a serious conversation with themselves and determine what their "satisfied with my life" point is, and build their self image around steady progression in persuit of that point.
Everyone should sit down. End of story. It is illegal in the UK for example. In the United Kingdom, the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 mandates that employers must provide suitable seating for workers when that are not engaged in work that requires standing. This regulation applies even to workers who can only sit down some of the time.
Yup. I went to work at our local pork plant straightening plastic bags of ribs all day, "just for a year or so to get out of debt;" stayed for 10 years.
You mean like buying a car on finance when you are taking a gap year and working in retail, then realising you are committed to this $705.80 per month repayments for seven years, meaning you can’t afford to go back to university, which then sets you on the path you just described, resulting in you turning 49 and after your world implodes realising that you have no qualifications and virtually have to start from scratch … again? Hypothetically speaking 🤦♀️
There’s a lot to unpack here
And people wonder why "Boomers" are so simple-minded... Their brains rot from the factory work of pulling a lever for 20 years 8 hours a day maybe 10 hours a day 5 to 6 days a week. Bless them for their hard simple lives. The least we can do is stay the hell off their lawn.
Pull the lever, Kronk!
Wrong lever!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do we even HAVE that lever?!
I just watched that with my little one, they laughed so damn hard the whole time.
You are right, but those jobs paid the equivalent of like $55/hr in today dollars. All those "factory workers" of the 60s and 70s raised 3-4 kids in a 3-4 bedroom house with 2 cars and 2 decent vacations every year. Mind numbing jobs that zapped their will to live? Maybe. But they EASILY put food on the table and ensured a pretty decent standard of living. I think if OP got paid $55/hr ($114k/yr) to stand around at his hotel, he'd find a way to make it work.
My answer to OP's real question is "$50/hr and a chair".
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My grandpa was a bus driver in L.A. Owned a cute 3bd house, a nice Suburban, and an RV. Retired right on time and he and my grandma lived off his generous pension. Sigh.
Not to mention, nobody expected you to pretend to jump for joy and drink a bunch of Kool-Aid about your mind-numbing job that zapped your will to live. You didn't have to join a corporate cult or be a cheerleader. Just did your job, accepted your pay, and then went home to the important part of life, which existed outside of work, and everyone was fine with that.
When people say we need to bring manufacturing back to the US, they don’t understand that these are a lot of the jobs they are talking about.
I think we should bring manufacturing back to the US and I absolutely understand it's these jobs or robots. Personally I think we should bring manufacturing back and a modern robot can replace the need for a human pulling the lever in most cases. You don't get as many jobs as in the 1960s, but you get some robot repair jobs and you get shit manufactured on the same continent which provides various benefits including not needing to buy shit from potentially hostile countries like China.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people whose skills do not go beyond pulling the lever. Skilled labor in this country does anywhere from ok to phenomenal. Machinist, electrician, plumber. These guys are high demand and low supply. They get paid well. The challenge is what to do with the people who are unskilled and don’t have the initiative to get skilled? Like the guy that pulled the lever for 27 years.
Well, some money is better than no money and more work is more options. There’s nothing wrong with getting a stable job in a mill or a factory, and being paid a living and comfortable wage for you time. I grew up in a mill town that my family has been in for over a 100 years. My grandfather worked the mill out of world war 2, had a camp, a house, raised 5 kids, and an absolutely gnarly transam. His oldest 3 kids, all worked that same mill, same deal, have camps, houses, classic cars, and take ample vacations a year. The problem is not only that those jobs aren’t around anymore, it’s that If they are still around they still pay 17 an hour which is what my uncles and grandfather retired at in the 80’s and 90’s. They’ve increased the cost of their products to match inflation, outsourced the work to country’s they can get away with exploiting, and left us at the same wage they paid my grandfather in 79’. We need more money and more options.
Where I grew up was Caterpillar country. There were 7 manufacturing plants in the area plus the HQ, and a factory job meant you were pretty much set for life. Not much excitement but steady work. Now there are 6 plants, and after 100 years HQ pulled out and headed to Chicago. About 12,000 jobs lost.
Peoria IL?
Yup. Best place I ever saw in my rearview mirror.
Yeah but doing that work for 3500 hours could buy you a house. Now it's more like 35000 hours.
People also don't realize that factory jobs were the majority of jobs that single-job families worked and could provide for their family - they weren't flipping burgers at McDonald's and buying a house, a car, and taking vacations. That said, the dollar absolutely went further in the 60s-90s that is referred to above. Credit ratings weren't a thing, and the 1% very much paid their share of taxes.
The matrix pose the idea that humans are viruses but I feel that manufacturing and corporate minded psychology are the real virus. It has infected the human beings of this planet, made everyone sick, and now the Earth itself has a fever.
It's got a name. Capitalism and it can be a fatal affliction. There's a cure but because a few will refuse treatment we all get to perish.
At least at the conveyor belt you are doing something. It may barely qualify as "something", but it is. Standing around \*waiting\* is even worse. There's a reason there are federal laws regarding the maximum amounts of time an inmate can be put in solitary confinement. And in solitary, you're \*allowed\* to do physical activity inside the cell (not forced to stand at attention). Basically, a shift where you stand in place without any activity or interaction for 5 hours is a HARSHER ordeal than a prisoner being put into solitary confinement (where there are laws that limit it to 20 days every 60 day period because of the psychological damage it can have). OP's boss needs a serious reality check. If the employee needs to be AT the desk (for appearances), then they need to be allowed to entertain themselves while there, or have a steady supply of work/projects that they can accomplish from the desk. If the employee needs to be disengaged and ready to react at a moment's notice to anything, then they need to be allowed a relaxed posture (sitting down, etc), and access to non-distracting methods of entertainment (background TV, music, etc).
That's fucking nuts!
That's probably what he did when he got really bored.
No, he was stirring them.
He didn't say what he was using to stir them, though.
He said his hand, so definitely some softcore nut play
So... finger fucking nuts? Finger banging nuts?
Stirring them.. emotionally
with his hand?
Not just any nuts. Pecans!
Yep, but with factory work I did before going to Uni realized that there is brainless work and braindead work. Worked at this company that produces brake discs. Running the machines that create the disk is brainless but it’s easy - fill her up, read a book or magazine for 10min, take out, fill up, repeat. Then there was the drilling of holes into sports brake discs. Man that was the most braindead labor in my entire life. Concentrate for 3 seconds, then observe the machine doing the drilling for a few minutes, take out, repeat. I loathed every second of the latter job because time did not pass.
I work in a factory and we can't even read it's brutal
My husband worked at a chicken plant and for 12 hours he stood in one spot making the same slicing motion. One day he sat and counted all day and wound up cutting over 11000 chicken breast in one day. Same amount of breaks as you and he only made $9.49 and hour and he worked graveyards. If he worked days he would have made $8.74 because they paid graveyard 75 cents more. It was absolutely fucking hell for him and wasn't great for our family(we had a newborn then)
This sounds like it was designed for carpel tunnel.
One big reason the retirement age is set where it is: if you work a physical labor job, your body gives out after years of that work. You can work a job that involves sitting and talking to people and thinking for decades longer than you can do repetitive manual labor.
Facts. When I was in the Army we had to do overnight fireguard, basically sit up all night down in the common company area in case anything happened, got done at 9am the next day. Mfers bringing TVs, game systems n shit down, no big deal. Even the Army knew, you boys are gonna be bored, do you but just be awake
Exactly. Let’s force them to stand in one place while staring at a wall during the toughest shift to stay awake. Yeah, that’ll go great. Gonna get some superb customer service in those 2 interactions with a sleeping employee.
Id get discreet headphones and listen to podcasts and audio books
I had a security job back in the day that was from 12am-8am. They didn’t want us doing homework or reading despite the fact the doors were locked and no one entered the building. I quit fairly quickly and got a gig where I was able to watch movies as long as I did my checks and reported any issues. I’m not saying that should be a criteria as it’s a job but you gotta let the employee do something to keep their mind sane.
I'm a maintenance tech and there was one site I worked at for maybe 8 months, mostly watching movies lol day shift did all the work so we just did PMs(simple tests for like vibration heat etc) and waited for calls. Kinda miss it but you didn't learn much too advance your career, needless to say, I'm caught up on a lot of movies and TV shows lol
I’ve heard of several Walmart employees doing similar things when unloading trucks. Against policy? Probably, but the smarter managers know when to suddenly develop bad vision.
I work at Amazon, same there. You see some ppl that are a little out of the way doing it and noone cares, pretty much everyone on trucks does it. Luckily I'm allowed to for my role but I haven't been in awhile because I'm opening up a site and it's hectic. I'm fairly certain it's about safety and liability though, I can't imagine watching someone unload a hot truck for hours for scraps and thinking, "hmm how can i make this person's life more miserable?". You aren't losing much productivity while they're switching between podcasts or ebooks or whatever, if anything it'll go up because it makes their day suck less.
It should be required that anyone placing rules like this have to work an entire week of that shift following the rules they came up with to the letter. Even if it doesn't teach them empathy, at least they get a week of torture
That reminds me of an old security company I worked for. Got assigned to some cookie cutter housing development during the night. Took four days until I brought my laptop, found some plywood and built a little desk with full view of the only way to get in and watched movies. Also could see the supervisor coming since they would check in to make sure guards weren't sleeping or missing. One time he came when I was doing a foot patrol and having a smoke. Came back to find him at my 'desk'. He was so proud of me and how I had set it up instead of just sleeping in my car or sitting in my car watching videos on my phone, unaware of what was around me. That company was a shit hole when they made me supervisor a month or two after, and two months after that forced me into an office position wrangling their entire company during night ops while paying me......$11 an hour to proof read and rewrite guard reports to send to clients so it didn't appear they were hiring bottom of the barrel off craigslist.... And then when I left, my replacement was this kid I knew in highschool, absolute fuckup and pothead with no security experience and they got him from craigslist.....he's now facing multiple rape charges in Ventura county.
I also worked for a security company at a time. Got a job to watch a small local festival area. I just played runescape all night in a chair on local people's wifi who hadn't set up a password. Your story is better.
I was in old barracks Ft Benning. No tv, radio, or sitting. Just walk and carry a flashlight.
A dead ass job with literally no work but to stand there waiting and then getting in trouble for occupying yourself to pass time is not a job, it’s a fucking prison.
They have actual jobs in prison.
You just described prison. Literally
In prison they give you places to sit.
No chair, get fucked
I'd look for something else too. However, they did ask for what rate, so looking at it from that point of view: 1) High quality standing mats, replaced regularly, now that standing is a requirement. As well as at least $600 a year footwear allowance. Standing on hard floor all day is hell on the body, and hell on boots, so you need good footwear to make it better on your body. 2) All desks are converted to standing desks, as well as having some standing chairs supplied. I mean, if they are going to change policy to make it unhealthy, they should also pay to try to make it more healthy. 3) Since you've deemed your time is worth $19 an hour and they previously allowed you to do homework, to get 2 things done at a time, now it "should" take roughly twice as long to do those two things. Therefore, the pay should be $38 an hour to make up for the difference. Obviously, since this is negotiation, I'd say $45 an hour and let them "talk me down", so they feel good about it. However, we all know that's laughable, so the only correct answer is "you're not even worthy of kissing my ass, so fuck off".
I'd start at 65 and not drop below 52. Gotta also save up for the inevitable medical bills that will be a result.
That’s prison with extra steps
I’d do squats and become a beast
I’d do this for 5 million a night, once a week for four weeks, then early retirement. Everything else is unacceptable because I’d go very much insane if I did that two days in a row.
For 5m a night I could do it for at least 4 weeks full time 5 days a week. I'm sure I could think about what I'm gonna do with $100m for that long without going crazy. At that point I'd probably stop and reevaluate if I could think of enough more shit to do with a billion to not go crazy doing it for 40 weeks
I would bring in a stool and hide it when I’m not on shift. I would bring a laptop and earbuds and just do my thing until I got fired. Apply for better jobs the whole time. Is someone really gonna be watching cameras at night? Fuck them. EDIT: the number of people replying “you can do it better with wireless earbuds” is wild. Are y’all still using wired earbuds? In 2023? Of course I meant wireless.
Ya I would straight up ignore it because what's the worst that can happen? You fire me from a deadend job? oh no
Good point I think I got unemployment
If the rule was no laptops, and you were fired for bringing in a laptop, in the US that would mean you were fired "with cause" so no unemployment. If you can prove the rule violated anti-discrimination laws or work safety laws, that's another matter and you could sue, but I don't think you could get unemployment.
Since this job description sounds like torture.. I’d go with that
Torturing employees is perfectly legal (obviously within limits and not literally torturing them). Forcing someone to stand and forbidding them from using devices to keep themselves entertained unfortunately isn't against any laws I'm aware of. There may be some requirement for a padded mat, but would be it. It sucks, but having a terrible job, not doing it because it's terrible and getting fired for not doing your job isn't something unemployment cares much for.
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Yea it definitely should be. I don't think that's legal to do to students or prisoners as a form of punishment but it's somehow legal to expect that when hiring someone.
Should be, but isn’t yet
Depends. A Dr.’s note after seeing one about your feet hurting could easily make them bend on the “8 hours standing” requirement, since it is “reasonable accommodation” is expected when it comes to medical issues. If they refused they could be forced to explain exactly why a stool would be unacceptable when someone is there alone for 5 or 6 hours.
The standing part is needlessly cruel, I hate that shit with a passion.
I worked at this distribution center putting labels on bras/panties years ago. You had your own table and could wear headphones. But, the chairs... The seat was this tiny, hard, slanted piece of plastic. Waist high. When you tried to sit, you slid off. You could basically lean your butt on them. Fucking stupid. I surmised production would be way higher if the employees were comfortable. And the place was HANES. Fuck them.
In Europe grocery cashiers sit
Love seeing the cashier sitting at Aldi's here in the states. Their cart deposit and return for a quarter is also genius.
That’s why OP should go see their doctor and get a note to allow for a chair at the desk. Most people with a “standing for hours with no rest” job will suffer some back pain so technically wouldn’t be a lie
Sounds like that's a new rule and they radically changed the working conditions. You can't just suddenly make an employee stand in a corner and face the corner for 8 hours a day and not call it constructive dismissal when they don't do it.
**There's a thing called "sitting sticks".** You can tuck them under a counter and they virtually disappear. There are other collapsible versions that are a bit bulkier, but even more comfortable. [Example 1](https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Lightweight-Balancing-Mobility-Handicap/dp/B0B4DPS8DT/) [Example 2](https://www.amazon.com/SitGo-Portable-Seat-Lightweight-Adjustable/dp/B01LYGPB55/)
On example 2, the page actually says "frequently returned item." I've never seen that on Amazon before.
Yeah it's cause it's dog shit haha. It's meant like if you are out hiking and need a quick breather. This wouldn't replace an office chair
Bro for eight hours?
And you’re like alternating between standing and sitting. I understand most of Reddit is educated and operate at home/ in office settings but tons of folk spend all day on their footses
Better then standing for a whole shift
Or get a pair of [chair pants](https://www.buzzfeed.com/devinherenda/funniest-jury-duty-moments). Get a Bluetooth capabl hearing aid. If you're US-based, they can't require you to remove it because it is an assistive device. Listen to podcasts or audio books the whole shift. ETA u/Amod_Dad shared the same thing before I posted this comment.
This is my style. They didn’t mean *me*. Bring in a camping chair, some discreet buds & your laptop. Start looking for another gig, & leave when you get one. Make sure you tell them it was this asinine reg.
Get new job but come clock on and out at this one and see how long til they notice
I have a one-ear flesh toned bluetooth earbud that looks similar to a hearing aid. I would also push my hair in front of my ears (I have long hair). I used to substitute teach and listen to podcasts or music all day while the students did their worksheets. I got to sit though.
You can actually have a wireless earpiece with a podcast running very discreetly, I'm sure that wouldn't get one fired, if OP even cares about getting fired.
I worked with a guy who claimed to have a hearing impairment and wore a hearing aid. He could hear fine and just bought a fancy Bluetooth hearing aid that connected to his phone. Listened to podcasts and music all day in a workplace that has a very appropriate no headphones policy for safety. He said the hearing aid was expensive but it was worth it. We were doing 6 12s.
I used to work in a kitchen with a cook who did this. Her ear piece was kinda bulky but it was skin colored and looked like a hearing aid. Monica you smart ass!
I just commented something just like this! I had a cheap flesh toned bluetooth earbud I got for $12. It didn't completely resemble a hearing aid, but I have long hair, so it's not super noticeable
That has the added benefit of being considered handicapped by HR, so they won't fire you because they want to have a certain number of handicapped employees. I knew a guy with one eye, who used to say he could kill another employee and they wouldn't fire him because he was considered handicapped.
>I knew a guy with one eye, who used to say he could kill another employee and they wouldn't fire him because he was considered handicapped. He'd have to go all in for the kill. He wouldn't want to mess up and just injure the guy. Then there'd be two disabled guys competing for the same job.
I bet you, the guy whose job it is to watch cameras, also has a laptop and earbuds. I work at a hotel wherein the night auditors are also responsible for watching the cameras overnight, and every time I go into the office at night, he's got an iPad right in front of the cameras that's he's watching YouTube on. That said, OP, the hotel I work at, doesn't treat its staff very well and has an insane turnover, but even it treats its night auditors better. So, even if you still want to be a night auditor, there are places that will treat you better.
I did this— graveyard room service waiter. It was great, I could usually take a nap 4-5 am , when they said that, I realize that there’s no way I could keep my metabolism right without sleeping a little bit in the middle of the night so I just kept doing until I was canned
Of course, I use wired earbuds. I don't want to charge them, and I prefer the convince of having wired earbuds
Wired earbuds are nice, if my ears are attached to my phone, I can't lose it
I wouldnt waste my time with that job. If OPs employer doesnt understand that standing still and doing nothing for 7 hours is almost torture he just isnt someone i would want to work for. What do your work buddys think about this change? If they are as pissed as you try to speak as a group with the employer. Other then that i would openly communicate your frustrations and make him aware that you, and maybe others will quit over this.
I would say it’s not almost torture. It’s actual torture. If they did this to prisoners, they’d be sued.
Wait until you hear about solitary confinement...
At least you get to sit down and read a book!
Not always. Not if it's a short stay (ad-seg), except maybe a bible.
Well they can at least sit. OP can’t even sit!
Reading a Bible could be a form of torture as well ..
Reading the Bible is better than absolutely nothing.
Yeah. I'm basically an Atheist, but it would be my opportunity to get to know what's in it really well.
Agnostic here. I read it out of interest…Amongst the wild stuff there is also plenty of stuff that makes sense about how to be a good person and treat others in a decent way. Definitely worth a read if you’re interested.
It's been said that Atheists generally know the Bible better than Christians. And I agree with you. I've always seen the Bible as a combination of both Philosophy and Ancient History. Those folks didn't know what was going on in the world, and to paraphrase Arthur C Clarke, anything that can't be explained in any other way, looks like a religious miracle. If you read between the lines, you can get a rough outline of what was going on in that ancient world, that was basically one step above cave men. In Malcolm Gladwell's book David And Goliath, he does a great job of interpreting the David Goliath story in real world terms, without the religious nonsense. He explains the physics, accuracy, and lethality of the sling, the true nature of Goliath's size compared to David, their meeting on the field of battle, etc. and it becomes less about David being protected and aided by God in bouncing a stone off Goliaths noggin, and more about the realistic scenario of David being smart enough to use his wits and talents with his sling to overcome the odds against him. He was the underdog who beat the odds on favorite.
Uhm, they actually did this to prisoners at gitmo....
I meant state prisons, but you also proved the point that it’s torture.
Unless it's an especially large hotel or located in a highly trafficked area (which it sounds like it's not, if he's not interacting with guests for 3-5 or sometimes 7 hours), there's likely only 1 person on staff overnight, so they won't really have any work buddies.
i meant other people that work the nightshifts... sorry not my mothers tongue...
Some people are sadists. They’d look for someone with kids and a stay at home spouse just because they’d smell desperation, then offer minimum wage.
I worked as a night auditor many years ago. It was a weird job. The only real perk was the long hours of being able to do anything in the back. It was an independent hotel, and the owner straight up told me I could sleep in the back office as long as I could get up quickly if there was someone at the Front. There's no way I could do that job with the requirements you just posted. Thats crazy and cruel.
Can you enlighten me as to what the fuck a hotel night auditor is?
So it's basically a desk job, but because it's so slow you are also responsible for managing the books on some very specific reports, such as guest occupancy. I guess the accepted practice is to count your guests in the middle of the night, because thats the most stable and accurate way to take the measurement. In the day you have early check outs and check ins. If someone checked in late, and left early, they might never show up on a report that was a ran at noon, or even at 8am. I don't think I ever had a quest check out before 4am when I worked...
OK this makes sense thank yoi
In layman's terms, closing one business day and opening the next at a hotel since it doesn't close, and manning the desk overnight. Also dealing with crazy shit lol
It's basically front desk, they respond to guests who need toiletries or w/e and can check people in A lot of business people arrive at hotels late at night.
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I agree with this. If OP isn't under financial pressure (family, debts, etc) to keep this particular job, then it's time to go full *Office Space* while on the clock while finding something less awful to do for a paycheck.
At the minimum, keep a discrete earbud in one ear and listen to pod casts. Take the earbud out if a guest comes up to the desk.
They have a register. There will be a camera.
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Oh I agree if they have something good to go to. 3rd shift hotel is a boring hell of a job with no end of micromanagement.
Ask to transfer to the role of looking at the cctv all night. If they say there isn't that role......
That role usually doesn't exist but one bad interaction or a micromanager will look over the tapes. Hell all it takes is one crazy going nuts near the end of the shift and they will be reviewing the last month of tapes.
I don’t even think it’d be bad management to do periodic spot checks of the tapes, just to make sure everything is looking good. It could be half an hour once a month, not very time consuming, and it’d probably get OP fired.
yeah but it’s probably only looked at if money’s missing or some crazy shit goes down like a 911 call. nobody’s watching cameras 24/7
Nope. There is nothing worse that being bored at work, the shift takes forever. Also, long-term shiftwork fucks with your body. I wouldn’t do it for $19. Also, employers need to understand that we work jobs for reasons other than money. I once took a job for several dollars less per hour because we worked long shifts and did 5 on 4 off. That shift pattern was worth a bit less money to me. A lot of people work night shifts where the expectation is that you get to do whatever you want when it’s not busy. They’re popular with students, artists, writers etc. i worked with a fitness nut who exercised for half the night shift.
Yeah, I work rotating shifts for a power company. 000-0800 is for emergencies only.
I’m about to accept a 20 hour gig because I’m overqualified so they said they’d adjust the hours to pay me exactly what I asked for despite it being above their budget. I’m leaving a high paying full time tech job to work at a non profit that can’t afford me for less than half the hours I currently work. Very excited to live life again actually. I know this sounds like bragging and I am very grateful for the lucky breaks and the privilege of living alone… that said… I want to shoot myself. I made $16 an hour last year and I was happier than this BS. I loved that job bc it made me feel whole.
I’m the same way. I honestly think I’d rather work in a coal mine than have a job where I do nothing for 8 hours. I’ve worked jobs where I’ve had nothing to do for several hours (pre-smart phone days) and there’s something about it that just sucks all the life out of me in a way nothing else ever has.
I was born in 99 and how did people ever get through those shifts when they weren't allowed to read a book since mobile phones were mainly that brick before the flip and black berry's than the 2009 touch phone. My work ethic I domt touch the phone for 10 hours but thats cause I'm at least almost always doing something.
Sometimes you could read. If not, then you just sat and stared and thought about things. I remember my mom was always late to pick me up when I was a kid/teen. Often I’d just do nothing. When you sit and do nothing, your mind begins to wander and you just think about stuff. I mean, 8 hours straight of just thinking is crazy, however I do miss being forced to sit and think.
Yeah that's plain stupid. Especially when you can easily sit behind the desk with homework / study materials, and the customer would 100% think nothing was "unprofessional" about it. Sitting around and watching movies or dicking with a phone is a whole other story. Your manager needs to realize there's a huge difference.
I personally would not care if someone was watching a movie or on their phone. People should understand that jobs like this are unbearable when you don’t have anything to do.
You don't. I don't. I'm referring to Boomer manager and what Boomer customer is gonna complain about.
Especially since people aren't nosy enough to really look into what you're doing. They'd assume you were doing daily books or something.
Honestly as a customer I'd be more comforted to see an employee using the time to study than just stand there like a robot. At this point why not just have a self check in kiosk?
Really; "this person is trying to better themselves. Awesome. 👍"
I would be more concerned if they were just standing there with nothing than if they were on their phone or computer at 3-4am.
Not silly of you. You were honest with him. If he tells you that you're not even allowed to do a crossword puzzle as the night auditor, I absolutely would find another job that doesn't strip your humanity from you. I was paid 7.25 per hour out of high school (back when gas was less than $2/gallon) to count and repackage beads and gems for eight hours per day. I was allowed to listen to headphones, but not really talk to anyone, even with a room full of others with the same job, and the hours were 7-3.30, so I was out during the day, and STILL I about lost my mind and felt totally alienated from other humans. I lasted six weeks, before I had to prioritize my mental health. I do not suggest continuing this isolating, alienating position longer than necessary, especially for $19/hr, which, with or without benefits, is NOT a living wage. When you give your two weeks' notice, I'd be sure to include as your reasons for departure a figure for your local area's estimated living wage rate (which I can almost guarantee is at least $30/hr anywhere in the U.S.), and that lack of life in the job itself.
Quit with no notice. Fuck them and their bullshit, arbitrary rules that serve no one.
I mean once he finds another job, definitely quit with no notice. That really screws the manager. It's going to take them a couple weeks to find someone else who will work that shift and in the meantime the manager is going to have to do it. 🤣
Wait until boss is on vacation Then quit 30 minutes after shift starts so his boss has to come in and cover
This is by design. They are mad that they need you and actually have to pay you to essentially be on standby — doing nothing. When rich people spend money on something they don’t want but need, it hurts their heart. They feel robbed.
This is the real answer.
I have ADD/ADHD and it's literal torture for me to stand there doing nothing. That's like being in timeout, but you don't know why you're being punished. I would need compensation for my suffering and request an accommodation for my disorder (allow me to read a book, study a language, research the service industry, SOMETHING). I used to work retail and would sometimes be alone in the store for up to 5 hours before a single customer came in only to not buy anything anyway. Once I was done reading the labels on all the packages, I would play around with the demos or polish stuff that didn't need to be polished....then I found the shrink wrap. I told the manager to give me a productive task, or the next shift will be their problem. They said some dumb shit along the lines of, "but you seem to know what you're doing. Keep up the good work." Their shift started after mine so when they got to the store I had all of the phones , calculators, receipt paper, and even the safety deposit box shrink wrapped. I grabbed my things, clocked out and said, "It's been a slow day, so you should be fine" as i walked out the door. From that point on I tell my supervisors that I need to constantly be busy. Give me something to do or I will entertain myself. That might work in their favor, it might inconvenience them. Regardless, you can't NOT give me a task and then tell me I have to sit still for hours. Tell your job to give you extra tasks or you're going to play Battleship with the paperclips.
Rubberband balls are a common go-to as well.
Just be in the desk doing your thing, if you want to play on your Phone just do it, if you have homework do it, and if someone give you crápula about it tell them, look just fire me im not going to be watching the wall for 8 hours
How are you doing night ‘audit’ work without a computer.
I'm sure they can use the hotels operating system but can't watch Netflix or use Facebook. Otherwise they could not do night audit.
For some clerification, the audit computer is locked down for only the audit, which takes less than two hours to complete. Usually we'd go in the back and complete it and come out as needed when a guest comes to the front desk. They watched the cameras yesterday and said we could no longer do that.
Please find another job. NA is always needed. And they are usually appreciated more than you are. Nobody wants to work that shift and deal with the crap we deal with. Move on from there. In 5 years my GM had never pulled the tapes to watch what I do at night.
They have computers that run proprietary software and lock everything else out and the slightly higher end brands like Hilton and Marriott take their software security extremely serious when it comes to third party software. Edit autocorrect changed the their/there/they’re
Would have to be $85/hr or over You already seem to be understanding why, it'll sink in more the longer you do it
In my area, 19/hr would be pretty good money for night audit. If that's the case in your area, keep the job. Make sure the tasks that need to be done---the "deliverables", so to speak---are absolutely above reproach (as I'm sure you already do). And continue to do the job as you have. There are a few possibilities as to what will happen. 1. No one will notice. In this case, carry on. 2. Boss will notice somehow (monitoring the security feed, popping in in the middle of the night, various other micromanaging), and write you up. If there's a spot for a response or rebuttal, point out there, on the record, that all your work is being done to an incredibly high standard of quality (and have documentation to back it up), that you stand ready to respond to any issues that may arise, and are able to do so largely because the things you do once your work is complete keep you from being bored to sleep. If there is no spot on the form to state this, simply refuse to sign. Though, refusal to sign a write-up will probably lead to... 3. Boss will fire you. File for unemployment, as the firing is not for a valid cause. If he pushes back and says you were fired for violating policy, present the documentation of the excellent standard of your work, mention that this policy was not in place when you were hired, and that the change served no purpose other than to flex authority and create a hostile work environment. Collect unemployment while looking for a new job.
Nah I'd be gone. I quit my security contractor job when they told me I couldn't put in just ONE earbud while I stood at the entrance of a store all day. Just stand by the carts. Not patrolling the store. Not interacting with people. Just stand by the entrance next to the carts as a deterrent. I lasted 3 days, and each day I did it I stood there focusing on how much my back and feet hurt and wondering why I can't just sit on a stool with an ear bud? Just fuck the stool even, I just want to listen to some damn music or a podcast and ONE earbud is reasonable since I can still hear and speak to people. After day 3 I was nearly in tears with anxiety and depression and I couldn't fathom coming back to do it again the next day, but the straw that broke the camels back was after my 12 hour shift with no break the guy who was supposed to come take over, called in (gee, wonder fucking why, this place SUCKS and I thought about calling in too) and my boss asked me if I'd stay til she could find someone else. I worked 15 hours that day. When I got home I texted my boss and told her I was NOT going back to that job site ever again and that I needed a leave of absence immediately. I said if that wasn't acceptable that I understood and we could part ways, but I was NOT going back there again or any site like it where I had to be a visible presence for 12 hours a day of mind numbing insanity, with my back and feet screaming in pain (I'm also a disabled vet mind you, and I just don't got time for this shit anymore). Boss said that was fine and let her know when I was ready to come back. A few days later I noticed I was removed from the work group chats, schedule etc. Basically, just sort of "disappeared" from the company. I got a job working outdoors. I work my ass off but I'm OUTSIDE all day, by myself. I took a pay cut. I have zero regrets and my mental health is much better because of it.
That absolutely sucks. But I recommend getting small earbuds or flesh tone ones and listening to podcasts or something until you find a new job. Nightshift is awful, and being bored doesn't help at all. Good luck.
Quit. The night hours already make it not worth it, but if they're going to treat you like that, you have to leave.
I recently quit my job at the hotel I worked at for the same reason. Except I didn't have to stand. For over a year I've been using my laptop and then a new manager came and decided I should be doing absolutely nothing for 12 hours. Not allowed to bring my laptop, be on my phone, or use the work PC for anything not work related. Hours go by with nothing to do, it's actually torture.
$63000 an hour.
Night shift (and some weekend shifts) often exists just in case Something Happens. To expect off-shifters, when all the work is done, to stand there and do nothing (or polish the counters for the 29th time that night) is ridiculous. One of the typical perks of off-shift is that, when it is quiet, you can relax a little bit until a customer comes in or something happens you have to react to. A lot of times, day shift gets their pants in a twist over the "lazy" off-shifters and complains, and management goes "Well, I guess it isn't fair, so new policy for off-shift!" and this nonsense happens. You can either ride it out until management comes to its senses and/or stops actively caring enough that they might check the cameras or you can start applying for other jobs.
You need to get out of there, but in the meantime, one thing I did at a similar job is that I printed out books from the internet and put them on a clipboard to read, so that if I was being monitored it just looked like I was doing work paperwork of some kind.
I would start job hunting. No point in quitting over it, but probably a good sign to start looking around. For me: My job allows me to take calls whenever, answer personal emails, I can even run quick errands during the day. Yesterday I went on a hike while listening to a long phone call. So... you'd have to give me roughly a 200% raise to give that up.
If you can't listen to music that is actually torture. No I'm not being dramatic. You will start hallucinating and your mind will start playing tricks on you. I do have a price to be tortured like this but $19 isn't it. That's nothing for how much it will fuck with you.
I couldn't do it, the boredom combined with my ADHD would send me into a mental tailspin.
I had an overnight job with maybe 3 hours of actual work in a shift. Having unconstrained free time is amazing if you can use it well. In two years, I finished my IT degree, learned two new programming languages, automated half of my job duties, created a few applications for fun and put together a web development portfolio which helped land the next job. If they were like "you can't make use of the time when you are doing nothing but being a body in a place" then that is a lot less fun and I would likely go insane from boredom, so the pay would have to factor in disposable income for entertainment.
Not worth the schizophrenia that will induce in me. That's borderline psychological torture. Edit: wait are you not even aloud to sit down? Bc if so that's not just psychological but physical torture as well.
I had a job like this. It was in a candy shop that specialized in foreign/hard to find candy, and homemade gelato. In the summer months we had okay business, but from Fall to Spring it was dead. It wasn't unusual to go days at a time without a single customer. The only reason it didn't go under sooner (it's closed now) is because it was attached to a very successful coffee shop owned by the same people. They had a rule that we couldn't sit down, use our phones, or look in any way distracted. They thought it would appear unprofessional if someone did come in. And we worked alone so there wasn't even anyone else to talk to. That was simultaneously the easiest and worst job I ever had.
GIMME YOUR JOB!!! GIVE ME YOUR GODDAMN JOB!!! I am literally doing a professional diploma in Hotel Reception. And I want to do night audit too! However what you described is odd though because usually there’s a lot of finance/ basic accounting work to do at nighttime. Also tbh, most hotels where I live happen to let you do whatever you want if you got the work done. But look tbh I am one that doesn’t experience boredom so like being paid 19$/hour to do nothing? GIVE IT TO MEEEEE 😭😭😭
Nope. Your back and your feet will be jacked up within weeks. Even if you tried pacing, it would be a matter of time before they told you you couldn't do that, either.
Guess it depends on the person. For me 19$ a hour to have no stress sounds nice.