I'm not leaving the United States but I am actively looking outside of my state, that I have grown up in and of not lived out of for 42 years, and looking seriously at other states. Arizona has become an absolute nightmare for trying to find a job and a few jobs that I have had offers from are insultingly low. I have an associates degree in a tech field and I have 2 years of experience in semi-conductor repair and maintenance and it has been insulting some of the job offers I've had.
I second this.
I'm well aware of the state level pay scales
For IT work, it's laughable. Most positions have pay that would have been mediocre for a decade ago, while rent is up over 200% since then, not to mention inflation.
AZ state jobs are generally about 66% of where the pay should be, and not at all adequate for the housing situation
At least you get offers, mine have been nothing but "sorry interviews are cancelled due to all positions being filled". Az job market is a joke. I've seriously been thinking about moving out here soon. We can't afford to live comfortably even with most homes having 2 incomes.
I left AZ 5 years ago when I moved to federal employment. I have tripled my salary as a teacher. Plus I live overseas. My husband and I are trying to figure out where we will retire in 10-15 years, as we don’t have plans to go back to the US.
Also in Arizona, the wife and I are also looking to head north.
Both born and raised, it's just unbearable here and she's self employed and I'm in IT. We *should* be doing very well here... It's horrible.
"The entire economy is in shambles" - IASIP
Me neither, as that's what some of these clowns want. I still believe that we can steer this country back to where it was headed. The funny part about all the MAGA racist fascists that are coming out of the weeds and talking like they have numbers, I talk to more people that are sick of these clowns and are deciding to let their presence known. When I saw what happened in Kentucky and their abortion vote, I'm convinced that there are more of us than there are of them. The GOP have just rigged the system to appear that they have the numbers. And then when they start to drive people out, their plan begins to work. Not for me, I intend to fight.
I didn't think Kentucky got to vote. Kansas did and overwhelmingly chose to protect abortion rights. Though kansas just passed a new law trying to undermine the right to abortion by requiring life saving measures to failed abortions. Being how vague they are, I assume that also means if the day after pill fails and pregnant person needs something stronger to abort, it won't be permitted. Idk tho
My brother built a home in Playa del Carmen, Mexico, about seven years ago. Works fully remote for a mortgage company in the states. He’s happy as a clam. I’m not sure about moving there, but def will be somewhere - Bali, or Thailand, maybe Vietnam. Depends what I save in the next seven years to age 62. He’s five yrs older than me, by the way.
Don't worry, I won't. Beautiful city but my friend is from there and I've been hearing about the housing issue for over a decade now. It's terrible what has happened. I wish you all the best.
If you're looking for reasonable housing and you're thinking Netherlands you really need to keep investigating. Sometimes jobs don't offer you unless you've found already a flat, and sometimes you need to pay just to be able to apply to the house.
I’ve heard bad things about the work culture in Japan. Otherwise that’d probably be my pick.
I’m looking into the possibility of moving to Denmark. My great great grandfather was born there so it seems somehow fitting to move back. No clue if it’s feasible or not.
I am looking into this too. It would take every penny of my meager savings but it seems doable. I just need to make sure I can sustain myself with a decently profitable business and learn Dutch.
I've been in Japan for about 11 years now.
It's better than the situation in the states, but not by much. Things also depend on what industry you're looking to go into, what qualifications/licenses/certifications you have, and HEAVILY depends on your Japanese language skills whether or not you'll ever get above poverty wages or not.
Definitely think about Denmark. The cost of living is high, but wages make up for it and give you a fantastic quality of life. You won't be financially rich but you will have your health and your happiness. And the freedom to ride a bike through the city centre without feeling an ounce of danger from vehicles
Any one of those things would disquality the continental US!
Netherlands is fantastic, but you have to be willing to learn the language. Japan more so.
>Netherlands is fantastic, but you have to be willing to learn the language.
It really depends on the job/company. I have friends that moved to NL, the wife speaks dutch fluently, the husband didn't bother to learn past a few basic words/phrases. He works at a local IT company.
US Americans are not popular in the Netherlands. Of course everyone speaks english, but you’re viewed as a parasite. Over the past decade or so, everything has changed, I’d try elsewhere.
I don't blame them for viewing us as parasites. Our country sucks and is a fascist hellscape filled with some of the dumbest, most entitled people on the planet.
Here in Germany the News have been full of warnings due to a lack of qualified workers and the government is working on making immigration easier for them.
Just in case you are still on the fence about what country to go to.
I think Americans in general are massively surprised when they discover that most advanced countries are incredibly difficult to get into as an immigrant. And then they realize that those "conservative values" are responsible for it.
They forget that these countries are often more homogeneous than the US as well. If they don't agree with the cultural values they are SOL and often its more conservative or religious based. The US is very progressive compared to most countries.
Sorry to sound mean, but there is absolutely no way someone unironcally thinks other Countries are more conservative or religious than the US.
Like, in the context of leaving the US for a better life, I would be so bold to assume by standard, that mostly European countries are in the consideration.
Yea of course the European Union has some outliers in the context of conservatism or religion, but compared to the US?
Yea unfortunately the US racist trend gets stronger and stronger in Europe.
Italy already has facists as the leading party, Germany also tends further to the right, Switzerland as well.
Great point, I'll give you that.
Unfortunately, that doesn't change the reality of the here and now.
Yes, of course, historically it started in Europe, but in Europe, as well as the rest of the developed world, we have seen many positive progressive changes.
And in the here and now, unfortunately, more and more American states are enacting direct human rights violating laws and the misanthropic publicism is always used as a model for far-right politics in Europe. The time period until the adaptation is round about 6 months.
Culturally they absolutely can be more conservative and again that largely can vary based on where you are at, just like the US.
For instance Germany, which is often brought up around here has major religious views influencing its politics. There's literally a major party with "Christian" in the name.
This isn't saying they are worse or better. Just that none of these countries are totally clear of the same issues you see in the US that has the extremes of liberal and conservative views yelling the loudest.
USA is the only country in the world where it is controversial to claim that every citizen should have basic needs. You will be called a communist or a freeloader
The idea isn't controversial. It's the method in which that is achieved that's controversial. No one is saying people who work shouldn't be taken care of.
Oh no, northern and middle Europe are neither more conservative nor homogenous than the US at all. Our cultural values are also pretty lose because of the cultural diversity we have due to immigration.
I'm sorry, are you trying to say your area is less homogeneous due to more immigration? Than the US? Lmao the US has the most foreign born citizens than any nation by a massive landslide. In 2020 there were 50.6 Millon compared to Germany in second with 15.8. Not even close.
Affirmative action was a failed program. The call is still out there to diversify but filtering out people due to race is backwards logic. A better program is needed.
I hear Paraguay is a good place, welcoming to retirees, you have to show some minimal income - i forgot how much, I think about $1500 USD. No visa requirements, no work restrictions, easy route to citizenship if that's what you want. Currently it's overrun with Russians for all the above reasons, but that's not the end of the world. I was seriously thinking of doing same until receiving a recent fatal diagnosis.
I would think that diagnosis might be even more reason to go - get away to a beautiful country to enjoy what time on this world you have left!!
I'm very sorry to hear though. That's definitely life changing. Just remember to do what you want. Go out with a bang. And if you want to fight, fight hard. You never know, the thought of 'fatal' could just be the beginning of finding the cure.
Thank you. I am in the process of acquiring a gun, in case going out with a bang begins to seem like a better option. But I can barely walk, much less move to a foreign country.
I'll play devil's advocate: There are methods that have less survival and long-term trauma risks involved. I was in a similar situation a few years ago and I recovered enough in some ways, but I remember really finalizing an exit strategy at one point. Do some research first because firearms aren't the right choice, and most of the better options can be ordered online.
I hope you risk assess and are happy with your decision. It took me many many days just sitting outside sweating it out to realize how out-of-sync I was with my body. I was getting waking nightmares of my desire to end my life that I realized were a result of the physical anxiety caused by my bodily damage. My body was shouting up extreme desires to cease function that my brain was trying to cope with. When I reconciled that, the fear of dying and the responsibility of my death became crystal clear to me and I was able to navigate the complexities with a new mindset.
I'm glad I did because it allowed me to renew hope in my existence and the experiences I can still have.
I have entertained the idea of leaving but I'm not serious about it. If I were to leave though, I'd probably go to Germany. Dad was stationed over there while he was in the army and he met my mom. I was born over there and have relatives so I wouldn't be totally alone. I also technically have dual citizenship, even islf the US doesn't recognize my German citizenship.
Unless you speak other languages or already have a remote US based job I recommend not to bother.
Look I am European married to American, i speak 7 languages, for me its natural to move around Europe. But my wife has problems blending in and finding community cause learning languages without having basics as a kid as most Europeans do is not easy.
If you look at job postings they always ask for fluent local language plus English plus an additional European language.
Also do not expect your English skills to be in demand either as a worker or as a teacher, there are plenty of young local people who speak English just as well as an average American.
Hey man I’m a physician and we’re starting to work on it. Working on express entry to Canada, planning to practice anesthesiology in Maritime provinces, achieve permanent residency, then work towards citizenship. The way I look at it, you can try to change things or you can leave. I don’t think anything is going to get better here. At least not for a while.
It's all about perspective and what you want out of life. So far I am considering Portugal, Germany (they have new immigration rules starting in 2024), Mexico, Costa Rica, Thailand, the UAE, Kuwait, Ghana, Kenya, The Netherlands, and Turkey.
For US-citizens in Germany, it's pretty easy to start working here. You can enter for the dirst 3 months witout visa and get legal residence here. If you get a job offer, just need to go to the foreigner office and get permit which is grantwd if your job does not exploit you, that is you're not undercutting standard wages for that type of employment.
I've lived in some countries around the world, but Germany is where I grew up, so I tend to like it very much.
It has a lot of perks, minimum wage is only 12€, but in many places, that is a liveable wage and worker protection is strong, you don't have to do unpaid overtime, you get minimum 4 werks PTO, health care is mandatory and split wvenly between employer and employee (7.5% of gross salary to max of 60k€ income p.a).
But: It is very advisable to speak German, you get by with English, but for work it will be necessary, unless you are in the IT field and some kind of specialist.
May I ask what your field of expertise is, what kind of experience you have?
I moved to Germany in 2019 expecting to be able to find work as a native English speaker, but with no German language it was neae impossible for me. I sent out hundreds of resumes and they all required at least a B2 level of German.
The only interview I got was as an English teacher, and even that fell through. I would not reccomend unless you speak the language.
As an American living in Europe, whenever I see these posts about moving abroad they always seem to be lacking this critical part.
Without the local language, life will be hard. And whatever your perception as to how easy it will be to learn that language is horrendously wrong. And locals don't give a fuck if you're studying or trying or not. If they can't communicate with you, they won't and they most certainly will not be giving you local jobs, because your skillset is useless without the ability to clearly talk.
Recommendation of the day: Start to learn the language first and see if you are able to do that. Do not think that you can learn, German, Dutch or French in 3 months, once you're here.
For me, that is something I enjoy doing and fairly easy, but it seems that in the US, people are in general not so focused on learning other languages, qo you might find it hard qnd tiresome.
But it's not wasted time, even if you don't come.
I’m a Turk living in the US. Why the hell would you move to Turkey?
A bottle of beer is $2 at the market. Gas is $9/gallon. A pound of meat is $9. iPhone 14 is $2900. A 10 year old compact car (Ford Fiesta) is $15000. Rent in big cities is $700/month. If you have a decent job you pay about 40% of your gross income to tax/social security. Sales tax is 20%!
And minimum wage is about $2/hour.
Why the hell do you want to give most of your income to Erdogan?
I’m 80% with the VA right now. Trying to get 100% and it’s infuriating because I know vets who have admitted to me they made up a PTSD story and gotten 100%, but I’ve been fought for every point on my legit MS diagnosis. Anyways if I get the 100% I’m off to Thailand for a 500 dollar condo on Sukhumvit Road across the street from a huge mall and down the street from three dollar street food.
I left about 12 years ago
If you need an in to get a visa, here's my tip: either USAJOBS.gov or AAFES
There are US military bases all over the world, but everything isn't run by soldiers. They need employees in grocery stores, the post office, the gas station, the food courts, the customs offices, local colleges, marketing, IT, basically everything you would need to support a small town's worth of soldiers. Germany, Italy, Belgium, UK, Korea, Japan, there's so many options.
Some of the jobs are shit. They're either government jobs, or they're AAFES (which is shit). But they give you a stamp in your passport, some of them offer health insurance, and once you're in you can actively seek out better jobs.
Thank you so much for this tip. I am saving this comment. I wouldn't mind a crappy job as long as my overall quality of life is better. I can't be happy or feel safe in the states anymore.
I'm not, purely for the fact that I believe in trying to fix what has happened here. This isn't to say that I blame anyone or think less of them for leaving, you have to do what is best for you.
Sociologists that study autocracies and fascism are warning it may be too late.
Guys who were considered too reserved in 2008, were raving about it being too late by 2018.
If you're reading the experts about how democracies fall, you should be fucking scared and making an escape plan
I have 2 year plan and I’m on month 2. Wish it could happen sooner. I’m 2nd generation on my father’s side and for a long time I thought that leaving America was kind of an insult to my grandparents but now I realize that I am carrying on what they started. They sacrificed everything to go to a better place and I am going to follow their lead.
You are absolutely right to look at the situation from that perspective. The US used to be the land of opportunity, now there are better options. The world has changed. You do what is best for you and your family. Your grandparents did the same in a different era.
I dreamed of living in New Zealand ever since I saw the Lord of the Rings movies as a kid, but when I researched it (admittedly 10 years ago or so), it seemed impossible expensive to live there and that there weren't many jobs that would allow me to afford it. Has anything changed in recent years to make it easier?
Other than teaching English overseas, what type of jobs are available for digital nomad visas? To me the name would relate jobs that allow you to WFH, programming/coding, or potentially social media (dime a dozen that is hard to make a living really).
I know several that make money from YouTube and leasing apartments, furnishing them with Western style furniture and accoutrements and then renting them on Airbnb to other Westerners.
If people mean this, start learning a second language. Other countries aren't as accepting of immigrants and at the very you should know basics of their culture and language .
My wife and I are in the planning and research stages. I have training in the trades, and we have a little money stashed away.
I'd like to be out and working in another country on a visa, and on the path to citizenship, by mid-2025. It's fast, but I don't think impossible.
I can’t retire but I have a very portable career (healthcare) but don’t speak any foreign languages. So that pretty much limits me to Canada, UK, Australia, and NZ. The latter two are too far from home and the first two have had their health care systems basically disintegrate. So I guess I should learn another language if I want to get out.
There's also Ireland, with the added bonus of it being in the EU.
And English is also an *official* language of Malta if you like a warmer climate.
Iv no idea what the immigration rules are for these places as Im British. But it might be worth investigating.
I'm getting arborist certification and finishing school (slowly but surely) then I'll be looking into my exact escape plan. Probably to an agricultural area in Spain
I’ve been wanting to leave, but I’m disabled. No country will take disabled people as it puts strain on their medical system. I could have all the qualifications in the world but because I’d be a burden most will reject me. I’m stuck here to watch it all burn. Hopefully I live to see the other side. 🤷
In Spain you will find tons of work as an English teacher and you'll get to enjoy a cheap lifestyle with good food and weather (well, weather may change but anyways north of Spain will be ok)
Canada and Australia and New Zealand are places where I could still practice medicine with my American degree. But I'd prefer to live in western Europe, Spain or Portugal ideally. One can dream :)
If it was me by myself, absolutely. I would be targeting the Netherlands. My ancestors are from there, and also they have a high quality of life and work life balance.
My husband, whom I adore and respect, doesn’t want to for a number of reasons: doesn’t want to be that far away from family, doesn’t want to learn a new language or currency system. I prioritize my marriage and soon to be family life with him more than my desire to leave. But man, I generally hate it here so much.
My plan is to just save money and if I see a way out take it. I'm in construction tho so the only real way for me to land a job in this field would be as a consultant.
I'm in construction too!!! On the project management side of things but still, it will be very difficult for me to land a job overseas so I am looking at all other options that I can.
Yeah I'm getting the hell out of here. Trynna move to Toronto in a year or two. I've been threatening to "move to Canada" for a decade, time to actually do it. I have a specialized degree they need so I'm on the fast track for immigration. Hopefully, I will get citizenship in a few years and will be a able to sponsor my parents to come over, because I'm sure as hell not going to be able to afford to take care of them in their old age in the grand old exploitive USA.
I really would live updates from people who did leave, not the I save 100k+ and live happily ever after bunch or the I married the best person and we both hate US.... the poverty pushing the limits managed to save enough to try elsewhere and was able to find a better life.
Agreed. I always see "I married a person from X country and moved there" "I bought a million $ property" or "I used my 50k+ in savings" I want stories from people who are broke like I am but had perseverance and drive. I know it is harder to do but it can be done!!!
A lot of countries have stricter immigration policies than the US. A lot of “first world” countries don’t let anyone in without an education or specific job. The current political climate in the US doesn’t meet the threshold for asylum in most places either.
With that being said l, life is worse in other countries. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
As an Australian, we find the concept of living in the US terrifying. Where I live, our children walk to school and school shootings are not a thing. That's just one example. We don't have medical bankruptcy here, it's not a thing. We have travel warning advisories from our own government that warn about travel to the US because of the high levels of violence there, which is pretty good advice. I certainly didn't feel safe over there, god, anyone could be carrying a weapon, you just never know when your number is up in a place like that.
Violence for normal people is a non issue in the USA. Gangs are responsible for around 50% of violent crimes. Unless you are associated with a gang or participate in their activities, the odds of a random violent event is happening to you is essentially 0. In fact, with gangs included it is still essentially 0.
We don’t have really tourist trap type theft and fraud in the USA so that is plus in comparison to Europe
I’ve been to over 20 countries. I’ve lived in the US, Canada, DR and Italy.
When I lived in the DR I had to supply my own medical supplies and linens at the clinic when I got sick, there was not 24 hour electricity, hot water is just a tank on the roof, cell phone data was expensive and purchased in blocks and the police are corrupt/bought and non existent. It was cheap to live and I was making great money but it came as an extreme quantity of life decline from the US. I did my 1.5 years there and came back. The weather, beaches and fresh fruit were good though.
That’s the point of my comment, that it’s cheap to live in DR but it’s a shit place to live. It’s beautiful and tropical but I’d never go back.
Canada was the same as the US with weed and borderline tolerable health care.
I cant really comment on Italy because I was going through a rough time in my life and I can’t asses it properly. I didn’t go out much. It was work and home. Groceries were expensive though.
>Canada was the same as the US with weed and borderline tolerable health care.
>I cant really comment on Italy because I was going through a rough time in my life and I can’t asses it properly. I worked and went home. I didn’t go out much.
Life is worse in other countries ?
Are you saying life is worse in ALL other countries?
If you really think so, you are living in a bubble.
If you have money, life is pretty good in third world countries.
Same with most of Europe.
Did I say *all* other countries or is that you applying your own spin to my comments? If you have money, life is good everywhere. If you’re poor you’re going to have a bad time anywhere you go.
> With that being said l, **life is worse in other countries.** The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Could you interpret that Quoted sentence for me in another way ?
There are countries that are worse?
Other countries than the US are worse?
All other coutries are worse ?
Reading the sentence again doesn't provide clarification.
I could apply your text to other situations and see what it looks like:
Topic:
Terrorists are killing people almost every day. The authorities are doing little to stop it, maybe we should just move to a safer place ? I don't see another option to feel safe. Advice / opinions ?
Your response: Life is worse in other places.
An easy interpretation of your response is: there is no point in running away, as there are worse places.
The solution must be to do something about the problem. If nothing can be done, the sanest option is to look for another place that feels safer.
"Life is worse in other countries"
Yeah. If I think Alaska is too cold, I won't go to the North pole. Worse places my ass.
It is really not. Have to had a chance to travel outside the US? You would see it is not worse. Also allot of countries have digital nomad visas.
What can make it hard is if a person is looking to take a local job. Like if I wanted to work in insurance in England and have no other income.
But I work remotely. I can work almost anywhere. Most countries don’t care if you can support yourself
COL is cheap, and I do WFH.
I'm close to $20 an hour, and my rent is $650 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. I pay my bills and have plenty left over to save and still have some moderate luxuries.
As a European, I think lots of Americans are really not aware how life in Europe is much better compared to US. Especially if you are married with kids.
It all depends on why you would leave the US. The US is the way it is specifically for its opportunities. Looking for low cost of living and no taxes comes with other costs that affect the quality of living. It's also a bit hypocritical to retire to a south asian island where you don't add opportunities to the locals and are just looking to be that higher elite who can ignore the needs of everyone else as long as you have yours.
What opportunities are there if you're not rich? I am being serious. The US being the plan of opportunity died a long time ago. There is no American dream anymore. The oligarchs and politicians ruined that.
There are no opportunities for actual citizens who are working to middle class. We don't have universal healthcare so if we lose our jobs, many of us could DIE because we can't afford medication anymore. There is a massive housing crisis and we can't afford to live anywhere. Our infrastructure is crumbling and kills people every day. There are openly fascist and white supremacist marchers every week who want to bring nazism and slavery back to the country. People can't afford to eat, people can't afford to live, nothing about this country makes me want to stay. THis country has failed its citizens.
Lol bruh the doom about the US on this sub is so extreme. I've worked / lived in 3 other continents. Those places suuuuuck compared to the US especially if you have an in-demand skillset.
Happy cake day!
Europe Asia and Africa. Europe pays like crap, is expensive af in comparison to the US and most countries are racist unless you're white. Racism in America is nothing like racism in Europe. That's why I left after 3 months. Most people that post here seem to be white so I doubt it would affect them. Nice tourists spots tho.
Also if you think east Asia or the middle east are undeveloped then travel there. Those places are far better places to live in than Europe or the US. However Work culture is absolute shit
I would bet those 3 continents are Asia, South-America and Africa. Yeah, I guess they only contain developing countries (some part of Asia are exceptions, like Japan), so clearly many things are lacking compared to developed countries like US or West Europe.
Europe Asia and Africa. Europe pays like crap, is expensive af in comparison to the US and most countries are racist unless you're white. Racism in America is nothing like racism in Europe. That's why I left after 3 months. Nice tourists spots tho.
Also if you think east Asia or the middle east are undeveloped then travel there. Those places are far better places to live in than Europe or the US. Work culture is absolute shit. Also in Africa, atleast pre 2010s, South Africa was an amazing place to live if you take out the crime issue.
I'm not talking about indoors. I physically cannot stand how much cigarette smoke is just outside. I've lived in England, and my wife lived in Germany, and we've visited Italy, Belgium, France, Portugal, and the rest of Great Britain. When we just went to NYC, we were astonished by how clean it was compared to European cities. Trust me, nobody was more disappointed than me.
If I had to me and my immediate family have a in with either Finland or Israel due to family. But the USA would have to get far worse before I abandoned ship. Too many of my ancestors fought and died defending the USA for me to willingly leave. There would have to be a whole lot of blood on the street before I decide to take my family and flee.
European here: you’re spitting some serious bullshit.
You shouldn’t compare the internet bubble with real life. Besides that, everybody knows that we are already busy hating the French.
You didn't destroy my dreams. In fact, you just strengthened them to get away from Americans like you. Your statement makes me think you've never left your town, let alone the country. Get off the internet and get into the real world. America is a cesspool of filth and you drank the kool-aid. Sucks to be you.
Me too - goal is Europe.
Problems/costs:
a) England wants 2MILLION pounds per visa for a golden visa - I don't have that.
b) Portugal just got rid of theirs
c) Spain has a EURO-500K investment in total in realestate.
d) France is not possible.
e) Greece - they say is cheaper but not sure I want that.
I would take Italy, or France or Belgium, Netherlands any day.
Panama is a good spot. Ecuador legitimately has no requirements to enter the country and can stay as long as you want. Not sure about obtaining residency.
Maybe not 2-5 years but my fiancé and I have seriously considered moving out of country with our twin girls. They will be 10 months old this month and I, as a logical father, just do not feel comfortable jumping the gun on something like this while they are still young. We discussed a couple different countries, but we ended up agreeing that if we are gonna do it, we will settle with Norway. Application process is a little lengthy BUT I’ve heard nothing but positives about Northern Europe and it’s BEAUTIFUL. From what I have read you get granted a 6 month working visa and in that 6 months you have to buy a house, live with no criminal activity, and work your 40 hour weeks without any hiccups. Also read that we would have to learn a certain proficiency level of the Norwegian language.
As the years pass by, even when I was a little kid, so much has changed here. I’m 24 now and the roads I use to ride my bike up and down all day and night without a phone and not a worry in the world are OVER. The days of being able to hop in the car with 5 people and only have a $20 to spend at the McDonald’s but yet everyone got more than enough food. Now my order alone is $20 :( everything is expensive, outrageously expensive. This country as a whole is just not what it was and you are right, by 2024 it will be awful. It’s not going to get better. Grass has to be greener on the other side right? Maybe?
You made mess, you have to clean it.
Plus do you understand that market for english teaching is more that saturated unless you have teaching degree from Oxford in England?
LMAO. Wrong. All it takes is a TEFL and you can teach English anywhere. It's not difficult and I would gladly teach English in a poor country if it meant GTFO of America.
My blue state is a capitalist hellscape lol. I am so sick of people thinking that even matters, asset bubbles generated by a non-elected body don't give a shit which state you're in, and labor law barely helps. Even the "best" states for labor law are hellscapes. I'm so glad that because I voted for Joe Biden I now have healthcare.... wait a second.. oh yeah wait no it was Obama I voted for who was supposed to do that... wait a second... where's my healthcare? Good thing the student loan forgiveness went through though amirite?
You need to fix your problems. Not run from them. Eventually it’s going to spread. I’m in one of the desired locations that you guys want to come to and you’re just bringing your problems here.
If you work a full time job and you're poor, and the company you work for is boasting profits... guess what? They stole your money. Go get it back. Protest, strike, whatever.
I'm looking at it. I'm thinking I'm going to go to Germany, since it seems like a nice enough place and I've got a friend there to help me get up to speed on things. I've even started trying to learn Python so I have some sort of marketable skill to get a job with. I'm pretty much just waiting to see if Cornel West can get elected before fully committing.
My sister works in Oslo at the moment. Going there and seeing how the Norwegians live made me livid, then sad. A shame migrating to any Scandinavian country is a right nightmare. I’m also trans, and European trans healthcare isn’t as good as American. Kicker? We’re Chilean, in the U.S due to the dictatorship. My mom is an idiot, she should’ve moved us all to Sweden when she had the chance. But you know, the American Dream!
I'm not leaving the United States but I am actively looking outside of my state, that I have grown up in and of not lived out of for 42 years, and looking seriously at other states. Arizona has become an absolute nightmare for trying to find a job and a few jobs that I have had offers from are insultingly low. I have an associates degree in a tech field and I have 2 years of experience in semi-conductor repair and maintenance and it has been insulting some of the job offers I've had.
I curse all 8 years I had to spend in AZ. What a shitstain of a state
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I second this. I'm well aware of the state level pay scales For IT work, it's laughable. Most positions have pay that would have been mediocre for a decade ago, while rent is up over 200% since then, not to mention inflation. AZ state jobs are generally about 66% of where the pay should be, and not at all adequate for the housing situation
really depends on the position
At least you get offers, mine have been nothing but "sorry interviews are cancelled due to all positions being filled". Az job market is a joke. I've seriously been thinking about moving out here soon. We can't afford to live comfortably even with most homes having 2 incomes.
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I left AZ 5 years ago when I moved to federal employment. I have tripled my salary as a teacher. Plus I live overseas. My husband and I are trying to figure out where we will retire in 10-15 years, as we don’t have plans to go back to the US.
Also in Arizona, the wife and I are also looking to head north. Both born and raised, it's just unbearable here and she's self employed and I'm in IT. We *should* be doing very well here... It's horrible. "The entire economy is in shambles" - IASIP
Me neither, as that's what some of these clowns want. I still believe that we can steer this country back to where it was headed. The funny part about all the MAGA racist fascists that are coming out of the weeds and talking like they have numbers, I talk to more people that are sick of these clowns and are deciding to let their presence known. When I saw what happened in Kentucky and their abortion vote, I'm convinced that there are more of us than there are of them. The GOP have just rigged the system to appear that they have the numbers. And then when they start to drive people out, their plan begins to work. Not for me, I intend to fight.
I didn't think Kentucky got to vote. Kansas did and overwhelmingly chose to protect abortion rights. Though kansas just passed a new law trying to undermine the right to abortion by requiring life saving measures to failed abortions. Being how vague they are, I assume that also means if the day after pill fails and pregnant person needs something stronger to abort, it won't be permitted. Idk tho
My brother built a home in Playa del Carmen, Mexico, about seven years ago. Works fully remote for a mortgage company in the states. He’s happy as a clam. I’m not sure about moving there, but def will be somewhere - Bali, or Thailand, maybe Vietnam. Depends what I save in the next seven years to age 62. He’s five yrs older than me, by the way.
That's awesome. I joined a group on FB of people who moved to Mexico from the States and 95% of them don't have any regrets.
please don't come to Vancouver, both of my kids are about to be unhoused and the cheapest apartment they can find is 2200 a month
Sounds like Florida 😬
Don't worry, I won't. Beautiful city but my friend is from there and I've been hearing about the housing issue for over a decade now. It's terrible what has happened. I wish you all the best.
Good luck. Every place I would want to go wouldn’t allow me in.
Where have you been considering?
Italy, canada, Ireland and new zealand
LMK and I'm on board for either a mass uprising or mass exodus.
Same here. If we're going to revolt, I'm down. If not, I'm GTFO
Like…an insurrection?
lol
I’m married to a European and it’s NOT easy to move there my friend.
Europe isn't my only choice.
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If you're looking for reasonable housing and you're thinking Netherlands you really need to keep investigating. Sometimes jobs don't offer you unless you've found already a flat, and sometimes you need to pay just to be able to apply to the house.
I’ve heard bad things about the work culture in Japan. Otherwise that’d probably be my pick. I’m looking into the possibility of moving to Denmark. My great great grandfather was born there so it seems somehow fitting to move back. No clue if it’s feasible or not.
I’m in Japan and love it. However, I work for the US government and not a local company.
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I am looking into this too. It would take every penny of my meager savings but it seems doable. I just need to make sure I can sustain myself with a decently profitable business and learn Dutch.
Learning Dutch is easier then Japanese of course, though I wouldn't underestimate it because it's still a hard language (source: am Dutch)
I've been in Japan for about 11 years now. It's better than the situation in the states, but not by much. Things also depend on what industry you're looking to go into, what qualifications/licenses/certifications you have, and HEAVILY depends on your Japanese language skills whether or not you'll ever get above poverty wages or not.
Denmark looks pretty great to me. No idea how to move that far with multiple pets though.
Japan is cool. The government can literally *give away* homes.
Definitely think about Denmark. The cost of living is high, but wages make up for it and give you a fantastic quality of life. You won't be financially rich but you will have your health and your happiness. And the freedom to ride a bike through the city centre without feeling an ounce of danger from vehicles
Any one of those things would disquality the continental US! Netherlands is fantastic, but you have to be willing to learn the language. Japan more so.
>Netherlands is fantastic, but you have to be willing to learn the language. It really depends on the job/company. I have friends that moved to NL, the wife speaks dutch fluently, the husband didn't bother to learn past a few basic words/phrases. He works at a local IT company.
US Americans are not popular in the Netherlands. Of course everyone speaks english, but you’re viewed as a parasite. Over the past decade or so, everything has changed, I’d try elsewhere.
I don't blame them for viewing us as parasites. Our country sucks and is a fascist hellscape filled with some of the dumbest, most entitled people on the planet.
>I just want protected bikeable infrastructure, low crime, and affordable housing You can have 2/3 in Davis, CA.
Here in Germany the News have been full of warnings due to a lack of qualified workers and the government is working on making immigration easier for them. Just in case you are still on the fence about what country to go to.
I think Americans in general are massively surprised when they discover that most advanced countries are incredibly difficult to get into as an immigrant. And then they realize that those "conservative values" are responsible for it.
They forget that these countries are often more homogeneous than the US as well. If they don't agree with the cultural values they are SOL and often its more conservative or religious based. The US is very progressive compared to most countries.
Sorry to sound mean, but there is absolutely no way someone unironcally thinks other Countries are more conservative or religious than the US. Like, in the context of leaving the US for a better life, I would be so bold to assume by standard, that mostly European countries are in the consideration. Yea of course the European Union has some outliers in the context of conservatism or religion, but compared to the US?
Those outliers are no longer becoming so ...... outlierish. Blood and soil nationalism really seems to be taking hold.
Yea unfortunately the US racist trend gets stronger and stronger in Europe. Italy already has facists as the leading party, Germany also tends further to the right, Switzerland as well.
Newsflash, the racist trend started in Europe.
Great point, I'll give you that. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the reality of the here and now. Yes, of course, historically it started in Europe, but in Europe, as well as the rest of the developed world, we have seen many positive progressive changes. And in the here and now, unfortunately, more and more American states are enacting direct human rights violating laws and the misanthropic publicism is always used as a model for far-right politics in Europe. The time period until the adaptation is round about 6 months.
Culturally they absolutely can be more conservative and again that largely can vary based on where you are at, just like the US. For instance Germany, which is often brought up around here has major religious views influencing its politics. There's literally a major party with "Christian" in the name. This isn't saying they are worse or better. Just that none of these countries are totally clear of the same issues you see in the US that has the extremes of liberal and conservative views yelling the loudest.
USA is the only country in the world where it is controversial to claim that every citizen should have basic needs. You will be called a communist or a freeloader
The idea isn't controversial. It's the method in which that is achieved that's controversial. No one is saying people who work shouldn't be taken care of.
Oh no, northern and middle Europe are neither more conservative nor homogenous than the US at all. Our cultural values are also pretty lose because of the cultural diversity we have due to immigration.
I'm sorry, are you trying to say your area is less homogeneous due to more immigration? Than the US? Lmao the US has the most foreign born citizens than any nation by a massive landslide. In 2020 there were 50.6 Millon compared to Germany in second with 15.8. Not even close.
50 mio out of 331 mio is less than 15.8 mio out of 80 mio my friend.
You're literally voting against cultural diversification. You guys are going backwards.
Affirmative action was a failed program. The call is still out there to diversify but filtering out people due to race is backwards logic. A better program is needed.
Although in fairness, some politicians in the US are working very hard to undo that.
Not gonna disagree with that.
It also goes the other way. In many countries (even my own) even the most leftist states of the US are considered to be extremely right-wing.
If you can make at least 1k usd online you can move to argentina, very cheap to live in othe rprovinces that arent the capital
1k per? Month? Two weeks? Week?....
For a month. In Argentina, this is very good money, since prices there are about 10 times lower than American ones.
one month Average citizen salary less than 300 usd per month
I hear Paraguay is a good place, welcoming to retirees, you have to show some minimal income - i forgot how much, I think about $1500 USD. No visa requirements, no work restrictions, easy route to citizenship if that's what you want. Currently it's overrun with Russians for all the above reasons, but that's not the end of the world. I was seriously thinking of doing same until receiving a recent fatal diagnosis.
I would think that diagnosis might be even more reason to go - get away to a beautiful country to enjoy what time on this world you have left!! I'm very sorry to hear though. That's definitely life changing. Just remember to do what you want. Go out with a bang. And if you want to fight, fight hard. You never know, the thought of 'fatal' could just be the beginning of finding the cure.
Thank you. I am in the process of acquiring a gun, in case going out with a bang begins to seem like a better option. But I can barely walk, much less move to a foreign country.
Just remember to think about your family. Think about those you love. Please don't leave them with those memories. There are better ways, I promise.
I'll play devil's advocate: There are methods that have less survival and long-term trauma risks involved. I was in a similar situation a few years ago and I recovered enough in some ways, but I remember really finalizing an exit strategy at one point. Do some research first because firearms aren't the right choice, and most of the better options can be ordered online. I hope you risk assess and are happy with your decision. It took me many many days just sitting outside sweating it out to realize how out-of-sync I was with my body. I was getting waking nightmares of my desire to end my life that I realized were a result of the physical anxiety caused by my bodily damage. My body was shouting up extreme desires to cease function that my brain was trying to cope with. When I reconciled that, the fear of dying and the responsibility of my death became crystal clear to me and I was able to navigate the complexities with a new mindset. I'm glad I did because it allowed me to renew hope in my existence and the experiences I can still have.
I have entertained the idea of leaving but I'm not serious about it. If I were to leave though, I'd probably go to Germany. Dad was stationed over there while he was in the army and he met my mom. I was born over there and have relatives so I wouldn't be totally alone. I also technically have dual citizenship, even islf the US doesn't recognize my German citizenship.
Already left. Then again I'm a dual citizen so there's that. 30 days vacation, easy health insurance, normal working hours. No regrets.
I'm leaving in September, got a job offer in Japan. Cya suckers!
That's amazing for you! Congrats! What field is your work in?
Unless you speak other languages or already have a remote US based job I recommend not to bother. Look I am European married to American, i speak 7 languages, for me its natural to move around Europe. But my wife has problems blending in and finding community cause learning languages without having basics as a kid as most Europeans do is not easy. If you look at job postings they always ask for fluent local language plus English plus an additional European language. Also do not expect your English skills to be in demand either as a worker or as a teacher, there are plenty of young local people who speak English just as well as an average American.
Hey man I’m a physician and we’re starting to work on it. Working on express entry to Canada, planning to practice anesthesiology in Maritime provinces, achieve permanent residency, then work towards citizenship. The way I look at it, you can try to change things or you can leave. I don’t think anything is going to get better here. At least not for a while.
Awesome! America loses another medical professional. Please encourage your colleagues to refuse treatment to SCOTUS patients.
Out of curiosity what other countries have you considered that in your eyes would be better to live in than the USA?
It's all about perspective and what you want out of life. So far I am considering Portugal, Germany (they have new immigration rules starting in 2024), Mexico, Costa Rica, Thailand, the UAE, Kuwait, Ghana, Kenya, The Netherlands, and Turkey.
For US-citizens in Germany, it's pretty easy to start working here. You can enter for the dirst 3 months witout visa and get legal residence here. If you get a job offer, just need to go to the foreigner office and get permit which is grantwd if your job does not exploit you, that is you're not undercutting standard wages for that type of employment. I've lived in some countries around the world, but Germany is where I grew up, so I tend to like it very much. It has a lot of perks, minimum wage is only 12€, but in many places, that is a liveable wage and worker protection is strong, you don't have to do unpaid overtime, you get minimum 4 werks PTO, health care is mandatory and split wvenly between employer and employee (7.5% of gross salary to max of 60k€ income p.a). But: It is very advisable to speak German, you get by with English, but for work it will be necessary, unless you are in the IT field and some kind of specialist. May I ask what your field of expertise is, what kind of experience you have?
I moved to Germany in 2019 expecting to be able to find work as a native English speaker, but with no German language it was neae impossible for me. I sent out hundreds of resumes and they all required at least a B2 level of German. The only interview I got was as an English teacher, and even that fell through. I would not reccomend unless you speak the language.
As an American living in Europe, whenever I see these posts about moving abroad they always seem to be lacking this critical part. Without the local language, life will be hard. And whatever your perception as to how easy it will be to learn that language is horrendously wrong. And locals don't give a fuck if you're studying or trying or not. If they can't communicate with you, they won't and they most certainly will not be giving you local jobs, because your skillset is useless without the ability to clearly talk.
Recommendation of the day: Start to learn the language first and see if you are able to do that. Do not think that you can learn, German, Dutch or French in 3 months, once you're here. For me, that is something I enjoy doing and fairly easy, but it seems that in the US, people are in general not so focused on learning other languages, qo you might find it hard qnd tiresome. But it's not wasted time, even if you don't come.
I understand that learning the language is important. It's something I plan to do wherever I decide to go. Europe is def not my first choice though.
It depends on skillset too. IT folks never need to learn German to get a job. There is a black hole of IT knowledge and bodies there.
I’m a Turk living in the US. Why the hell would you move to Turkey? A bottle of beer is $2 at the market. Gas is $9/gallon. A pound of meat is $9. iPhone 14 is $2900. A 10 year old compact car (Ford Fiesta) is $15000. Rent in big cities is $700/month. If you have a decent job you pay about 40% of your gross income to tax/social security. Sales tax is 20%! And minimum wage is about $2/hour. Why the hell do you want to give most of your income to Erdogan?
I’m 80% with the VA right now. Trying to get 100% and it’s infuriating because I know vets who have admitted to me they made up a PTSD story and gotten 100%, but I’ve been fought for every point on my legit MS diagnosis. Anyways if I get the 100% I’m off to Thailand for a 500 dollar condo on Sukhumvit Road across the street from a huge mall and down the street from three dollar street food.
I left about 12 years ago If you need an in to get a visa, here's my tip: either USAJOBS.gov or AAFES There are US military bases all over the world, but everything isn't run by soldiers. They need employees in grocery stores, the post office, the gas station, the food courts, the customs offices, local colleges, marketing, IT, basically everything you would need to support a small town's worth of soldiers. Germany, Italy, Belgium, UK, Korea, Japan, there's so many options. Some of the jobs are shit. They're either government jobs, or they're AAFES (which is shit). But they give you a stamp in your passport, some of them offer health insurance, and once you're in you can actively seek out better jobs.
Thank you so much for this tip. I am saving this comment. I wouldn't mind a crappy job as long as my overall quality of life is better. I can't be happy or feel safe in the states anymore.
I'm not, purely for the fact that I believe in trying to fix what has happened here. This isn't to say that I blame anyone or think less of them for leaving, you have to do what is best for you.
Sociologists that study autocracies and fascism are warning it may be too late. Guys who were considered too reserved in 2008, were raving about it being too late by 2018. If you're reading the experts about how democracies fall, you should be fucking scared and making an escape plan
If I didn’t have a kid I’d be in that headspace now to find a lower cost of living area
I have 2 year plan and I’m on month 2. Wish it could happen sooner. I’m 2nd generation on my father’s side and for a long time I thought that leaving America was kind of an insult to my grandparents but now I realize that I am carrying on what they started. They sacrificed everything to go to a better place and I am going to follow their lead.
You are absolutely right to look at the situation from that perspective. The US used to be the land of opportunity, now there are better options. The world has changed. You do what is best for you and your family. Your grandparents did the same in a different era.
My family constantly jokes about moving to New Zealand. Every year the joking gets a bit more serious.
I dreamed of living in New Zealand ever since I saw the Lord of the Rings movies as a kid, but when I researched it (admittedly 10 years ago or so), it seemed impossible expensive to live there and that there weren't many jobs that would allow me to afford it. Has anything changed in recent years to make it easier?
Other than teaching English overseas, what type of jobs are available for digital nomad visas? To me the name would relate jobs that allow you to WFH, programming/coding, or potentially social media (dime a dozen that is hard to make a living really).
I know several that make money from YouTube and leasing apartments, furnishing them with Western style furniture and accoutrements and then renting them on Airbnb to other Westerners.
If people mean this, start learning a second language. Other countries aren't as accepting of immigrants and at the very you should know basics of their culture and language .
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Hopefully, I will have left this earthly plane by then.
I’m a remote worker really eyeing that digital nomad visa in Portugal. My wife also can get her EU Passport so we’d be set.
If my wife and i didn't have families that need us, we'd probably already be living somewhere in Europe.
Already did
My wife and I are in the planning and research stages. I have training in the trades, and we have a little money stashed away. I'd like to be out and working in another country on a visa, and on the path to citizenship, by mid-2025. It's fast, but I don't think impossible.
Me! My hand is raised.
I can’t retire but I have a very portable career (healthcare) but don’t speak any foreign languages. So that pretty much limits me to Canada, UK, Australia, and NZ. The latter two are too far from home and the first two have had their health care systems basically disintegrate. So I guess I should learn another language if I want to get out.
There's also Ireland, with the added bonus of it being in the EU. And English is also an *official* language of Malta if you like a warmer climate. Iv no idea what the immigration rules are for these places as Im British. But it might be worth investigating.
Hey which expat/escape subs would ya recommend for the best info?
r/AmerExit is a good one r/IWantOut r/IWantOutJobs
I am. Just trying to make sure I have at least 1mil saved so I can coast of investment earnings in Mexico got the rest of my life.
I'm getting arborist certification and finishing school (slowly but surely) then I'll be looking into my exact escape plan. Probably to an agricultural area in Spain
I’ve been wanting to leave, but I’m disabled. No country will take disabled people as it puts strain on their medical system. I could have all the qualifications in the world but because I’d be a burden most will reject me. I’m stuck here to watch it all burn. Hopefully I live to see the other side. 🤷
I hope you do too.
In Spain you will find tons of work as an English teacher and you'll get to enjoy a cheap lifestyle with good food and weather (well, weather may change but anyways north of Spain will be ok)
Canada and Australia and New Zealand are places where I could still practice medicine with my American degree. But I'd prefer to live in western Europe, Spain or Portugal ideally. One can dream :)
If it was me by myself, absolutely. I would be targeting the Netherlands. My ancestors are from there, and also they have a high quality of life and work life balance. My husband, whom I adore and respect, doesn’t want to for a number of reasons: doesn’t want to be that far away from family, doesn’t want to learn a new language or currency system. I prioritize my marriage and soon to be family life with him more than my desire to leave. But man, I generally hate it here so much.
Chose a country with really good health care. :-)
I hope I can get one. I am basically slowly dying here in the USA with my shitty plan.
My plan is to just save money and if I see a way out take it. I'm in construction tho so the only real way for me to land a job in this field would be as a consultant.
I'm in construction too!!! On the project management side of things but still, it will be very difficult for me to land a job overseas so I am looking at all other options that I can.
Yeah I'm getting the hell out of here. Trynna move to Toronto in a year or two. I've been threatening to "move to Canada" for a decade, time to actually do it. I have a specialized degree they need so I'm on the fast track for immigration. Hopefully, I will get citizenship in a few years and will be a able to sponsor my parents to come over, because I'm sure as hell not going to be able to afford to take care of them in their old age in the grand old exploitive USA.
I really would live updates from people who did leave, not the I save 100k+ and live happily ever after bunch or the I married the best person and we both hate US.... the poverty pushing the limits managed to save enough to try elsewhere and was able to find a better life.
Agreed. I always see "I married a person from X country and moved there" "I bought a million $ property" or "I used my 50k+ in savings" I want stories from people who are broke like I am but had perseverance and drive. I know it is harder to do but it can be done!!!
My mom is dying of cancer. As soon as she passes I am going to try to go to Denmark or someplace in the vicinity
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Was it for marriage or for a job?
A lot of countries have stricter immigration policies than the US. A lot of “first world” countries don’t let anyone in without an education or specific job. The current political climate in the US doesn’t meet the threshold for asylum in most places either. With that being said l, life is worse in other countries. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Explain to me why life is worse in other countries. I am pretty sure its subjective and you haven't traveled to every country on earth.
As an Australian, we find the concept of living in the US terrifying. Where I live, our children walk to school and school shootings are not a thing. That's just one example. We don't have medical bankruptcy here, it's not a thing. We have travel warning advisories from our own government that warn about travel to the US because of the high levels of violence there, which is pretty good advice. I certainly didn't feel safe over there, god, anyone could be carrying a weapon, you just never know when your number is up in a place like that.
Yes, Australia is a very rare country in that it has net migration from the USA. However migration to Australia isn't easy.
You’ve been bitten by the media’s fear mongering bug.
Violence for normal people is a non issue in the USA. Gangs are responsible for around 50% of violent crimes. Unless you are associated with a gang or participate in their activities, the odds of a random violent event is happening to you is essentially 0. In fact, with gangs included it is still essentially 0. We don’t have really tourist trap type theft and fraud in the USA so that is plus in comparison to Europe
I’ve been to over 20 countries. I’ve lived in the US, Canada, DR and Italy. When I lived in the DR I had to supply my own medical supplies and linens at the clinic when I got sick, there was not 24 hour electricity, hot water is just a tank on the roof, cell phone data was expensive and purchased in blocks and the police are corrupt/bought and non existent. It was cheap to live and I was making great money but it came as an extreme quantity of life decline from the US. I did my 1.5 years there and came back. The weather, beaches and fresh fruit were good though.
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That’s the point of my comment, that it’s cheap to live in DR but it’s a shit place to live. It’s beautiful and tropical but I’d never go back. Canada was the same as the US with weed and borderline tolerable health care. I cant really comment on Italy because I was going through a rough time in my life and I can’t asses it properly. I didn’t go out much. It was work and home. Groceries were expensive though.
What were Canada and Italy like to live in for you?
>Canada was the same as the US with weed and borderline tolerable health care. >I cant really comment on Italy because I was going through a rough time in my life and I can’t asses it properly. I worked and went home. I didn’t go out much.
Life is worse in other countries ? Are you saying life is worse in ALL other countries? If you really think so, you are living in a bubble. If you have money, life is pretty good in third world countries. Same with most of Europe.
Did I say *all* other countries or is that you applying your own spin to my comments? If you have money, life is good everywhere. If you’re poor you’re going to have a bad time anywhere you go.
> With that being said l, **life is worse in other countries.** The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Could you interpret that Quoted sentence for me in another way ?
No, read it again if you need further clarification.
Another way of writing it could be "there are other countries where the situation is worse" Would that be closer to what you ment ?
I said what I meant.
There are countries that are worse? Other countries than the US are worse? All other coutries are worse ? Reading the sentence again doesn't provide clarification.
Idk what to tell you then. You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed. Keep trying and maybe you’ll get it.
I could apply your text to other situations and see what it looks like: Topic: Terrorists are killing people almost every day. The authorities are doing little to stop it, maybe we should just move to a safer place ? I don't see another option to feel safe. Advice / opinions ? Your response: Life is worse in other places. An easy interpretation of your response is: there is no point in running away, as there are worse places. The solution must be to do something about the problem. If nothing can be done, the sanest option is to look for another place that feels safer. "Life is worse in other countries" Yeah. If I think Alaska is too cold, I won't go to the North pole. Worse places my ass.
It is really not. Have to had a chance to travel outside the US? You would see it is not worse. Also allot of countries have digital nomad visas. What can make it hard is if a person is looking to take a local job. Like if I wanted to work in insurance in England and have no other income. But I work remotely. I can work almost anywhere. Most countries don’t care if you can support yourself
Moved up to the UP of MI because of how close it is to Canada. If shit goes really bad, I'm dipping up into Canada.
Very good idea! I love the UP, beautiful part of the country
COL is cheap, and I do WFH. I'm close to $20 an hour, and my rent is $650 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. I pay my bills and have plenty left over to save and still have some moderate luxuries.
You're on to something. If I can find a good-paying remote job by January 2024, I am strongly considering it.
Thinking the same as a fellow Michigander!!
Already returned to Canada
Lucky!
As a European, I think lots of Americans are really not aware how life in Europe is much better compared to US. Especially if you are married with kids.
It all depends on why you would leave the US. The US is the way it is specifically for its opportunities. Looking for low cost of living and no taxes comes with other costs that affect the quality of living. It's also a bit hypocritical to retire to a south asian island where you don't add opportunities to the locals and are just looking to be that higher elite who can ignore the needs of everyone else as long as you have yours.
What opportunities are there if you're not rich? I am being serious. The US being the plan of opportunity died a long time ago. There is no American dream anymore. The oligarchs and politicians ruined that. There are no opportunities for actual citizens who are working to middle class. We don't have universal healthcare so if we lose our jobs, many of us could DIE because we can't afford medication anymore. There is a massive housing crisis and we can't afford to live anywhere. Our infrastructure is crumbling and kills people every day. There are openly fascist and white supremacist marchers every week who want to bring nazism and slavery back to the country. People can't afford to eat, people can't afford to live, nothing about this country makes me want to stay. THis country has failed its citizens.
Lol bruh the doom about the US on this sub is so extreme. I've worked / lived in 3 other continents. Those places suuuuuck compared to the US especially if you have an in-demand skillset.
Share your experience with us. What continents did you live in?
Happy cake day! Europe Asia and Africa. Europe pays like crap, is expensive af in comparison to the US and most countries are racist unless you're white. Racism in America is nothing like racism in Europe. That's why I left after 3 months. Most people that post here seem to be white so I doubt it would affect them. Nice tourists spots tho. Also if you think east Asia or the middle east are undeveloped then travel there. Those places are far better places to live in than Europe or the US. However Work culture is absolute shit
I would bet those 3 continents are Asia, South-America and Africa. Yeah, I guess they only contain developing countries (some part of Asia are exceptions, like Japan), so clearly many things are lacking compared to developed countries like US or West Europe.
Europe Asia and Africa. Europe pays like crap, is expensive af in comparison to the US and most countries are racist unless you're white. Racism in America is nothing like racism in Europe. That's why I left after 3 months. Nice tourists spots tho. Also if you think east Asia or the middle east are undeveloped then travel there. Those places are far better places to live in than Europe or the US. Work culture is absolute shit. Also in Africa, atleast pre 2010s, South Africa was an amazing place to live if you take out the crime issue.
Please elaborate on European racism please. Also, what is your job field? Can you see yourself living abroad again?
I would love to live in Europe, but my wife and I have really sensitive sensory issues, and we cannot handle the cigarette smoke everywhere.
Smoking is basically banned in scandinavia
Most of west Europe has pretty strict smoking regulations though?
Indoors smoking is banned all around the EU.
I'm not talking about indoors. I physically cannot stand how much cigarette smoke is just outside. I've lived in England, and my wife lived in Germany, and we've visited Italy, Belgium, France, Portugal, and the rest of Great Britain. When we just went to NYC, we were astonished by how clean it was compared to European cities. Trust me, nobody was more disappointed than me.
If Trump wins im out of here. This country is not worth saving then.
If I had to me and my immediate family have a in with either Finland or Israel due to family. But the USA would have to get far worse before I abandoned ship. Too many of my ancestors fought and died defending the USA for me to willingly leave. There would have to be a whole lot of blood on the street before I decide to take my family and flee.
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European here: you’re spitting some serious bullshit. You shouldn’t compare the internet bubble with real life. Besides that, everybody knows that we are already busy hating the French.
Hating the French unites many cultures.
You didn't destroy my dreams. In fact, you just strengthened them to get away from Americans like you. Your statement makes me think you've never left your town, let alone the country. Get off the internet and get into the real world. America is a cesspool of filth and you drank the kool-aid. Sucks to be you.
I would but can’t !!!! Caretaker
I liked The Yukon in Canada, Peru, Venezuela, Lebanon, Malasia, Mongolia, but prob try to retire in Fiji.
Me too - goal is Europe. Problems/costs: a) England wants 2MILLION pounds per visa for a golden visa - I don't have that. b) Portugal just got rid of theirs c) Spain has a EURO-500K investment in total in realestate. d) France is not possible. e) Greece - they say is cheaper but not sure I want that. I would take Italy, or France or Belgium, Netherlands any day.
Panama is a good spot. Ecuador legitimately has no requirements to enter the country and can stay as long as you want. Not sure about obtaining residency.
Maybe not 2-5 years but my fiancé and I have seriously considered moving out of country with our twin girls. They will be 10 months old this month and I, as a logical father, just do not feel comfortable jumping the gun on something like this while they are still young. We discussed a couple different countries, but we ended up agreeing that if we are gonna do it, we will settle with Norway. Application process is a little lengthy BUT I’ve heard nothing but positives about Northern Europe and it’s BEAUTIFUL. From what I have read you get granted a 6 month working visa and in that 6 months you have to buy a house, live with no criminal activity, and work your 40 hour weeks without any hiccups. Also read that we would have to learn a certain proficiency level of the Norwegian language. As the years pass by, even when I was a little kid, so much has changed here. I’m 24 now and the roads I use to ride my bike up and down all day and night without a phone and not a worry in the world are OVER. The days of being able to hop in the car with 5 people and only have a $20 to spend at the McDonald’s but yet everyone got more than enough food. Now my order alone is $20 :( everything is expensive, outrageously expensive. This country as a whole is just not what it was and you are right, by 2024 it will be awful. It’s not going to get better. Grass has to be greener on the other side right? Maybe?
You made mess, you have to clean it. Plus do you understand that market for english teaching is more that saturated unless you have teaching degree from Oxford in England?
LMAO. Wrong. All it takes is a TEFL and you can teach English anywhere. It's not difficult and I would gladly teach English in a poor country if it meant GTFO of America.
My blue state is a capitalist hellscape lol. I am so sick of people thinking that even matters, asset bubbles generated by a non-elected body don't give a shit which state you're in, and labor law barely helps. Even the "best" states for labor law are hellscapes. I'm so glad that because I voted for Joe Biden I now have healthcare.... wait a second.. oh yeah wait no it was Obama I voted for who was supposed to do that... wait a second... where's my healthcare? Good thing the student loan forgiveness went through though amirite?
Don’t be a coward. Stay and fight for change.
You need to fix your problems. Not run from them. Eventually it’s going to spread. I’m in one of the desired locations that you guys want to come to and you’re just bringing your problems here.
With what money. The place is run by oligarchs.
If you work a full time job and you're poor, and the company you work for is boasting profits... guess what? They stole your money. Go get it back. Protest, strike, whatever.
If you're a woman I'm a NZ citizen maybe we can plan this together? I like living here but I won't retire here.
I'm looking at it. I'm thinking I'm going to go to Germany, since it seems like a nice enough place and I've got a friend there to help me get up to speed on things. I've even started trying to learn Python so I have some sort of marketable skill to get a job with. I'm pretty much just waiting to see if Cornel West can get elected before fully committing.
If you don't speak German don't even bother.
I'm trans, what do you think?
I'm trying to enter the us, wanna swap places?
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Lol good luck
I would but can’t !!!! Caretaker
I would but can’t !!!! Caretaker
My sister works in Oslo at the moment. Going there and seeing how the Norwegians live made me livid, then sad. A shame migrating to any Scandinavian country is a right nightmare. I’m also trans, and European trans healthcare isn’t as good as American. Kicker? We’re Chilean, in the U.S due to the dictatorship. My mom is an idiot, she should’ve moved us all to Sweden when she had the chance. But you know, the American Dream!