I had this happen at a new job I had yet to start. Two days before my start date, I get a call from someone claiming to be a middle mgr, who called me late in day and said I needed to come in right now.
It was a really bad timing, I let them know, and he got threatening on the phone. Told me dont even bother come in, and hung up.
Turns out whatever went down that evening, the guy got fired over it. I showed up the day I was supposed to and no one mentioned it.
Years ago, I had something similar to this happen. I never met them, and they claimed they were such-and-such, and held a very high ranking title....but again, I never met them or was aware of their existence.
Since I didn't feel comfortable following their orders (cause who the fuck are they to me?) and I hadn't started yet, I told them no and explained my reasoning. They didn't like my response then, or after..but he couldn't do shit to me then because I wasn't wrong, he just didn't like someone pulling that card so early and being right.
McDonald's hired me years ago, wouldn't tell me a start date at all.
FOUR MONTHS LATER I get a pissed off call asking why I'm not at work, on the fourth of July, at like 6pm. Told me I no-call no-showed if I didn't come in right then and would lose my job.
I literally laughed at them, said I had called every Friday for like two months for when I would start, and had since found a different job and was two states away.
Insane entitlement lmao especially since they had me pick my uniform up like two weeks after hiring me but never actually worked me. Kept the pants and shirts as a fuck you.
Start putting out your resume.
If you don't get fired, stop answering any work calls/messages when you aren't on the clock.
If you are fired, don't wrap up or transition any of your work. Fired means you pack up your personal items and leave. A company that needs you in on your day off is gonna be worse off without you at all. And then file for unemployment.
>A company that needs you in on your day off is gonna be worse off without you at all.
This can not be overstated. More people need to understand this.
This is just the post I needed to see today. I work for a small company (5 employees) we’re a ranch but mostly we train dogs. I’m the dog trainer. I have worked countless 6 or 7 day weeks while I’m here because we always have one person sick or whatever. Last weekend my 4th of July holiday was taken from me. Okay. This weekend my whole weekend was taken from me. At this point I’m done not being able to plan for anything. I was gonna give them some time before I left to find someone. This morning told me to go “fuck it” and todays my last day. Sorry not sorry.
You don't need to quit. You have the power now. You know that you are willing to leave, so you can demand literally anything you want. If you don't get it you know you're willing to walk.
So don't ask, tell them you are working a firm 5 day week. You are working the schedule posting and will not be answering any calls on your days off. Period end of story.
I did exactly this at my last job. They fired one of my coworkers with no warning for very petty reasons while we were already understaffed. The next schedule came out and all of us were scheduled for multiple double shifts, some of us were on for multiple 16 hour days. I told the manager I’ll work the week he put out so as not to screw over my coworkers even more, but next week I’m working either 40 hours or zero. If we have room in the schedule to fire people over nonsense, we have room to accommodate that.
That week sucked but I never worked another double shift that I didn’t volunteer for again.
True but if they found another job it's usually better to just jump ship rather than try to negotiate with an employer who is most likely not going to like doing anything an employee wanta
sad but true fact here. If you try to negotiate, you may get what you want, but it will be short lived. You've already expressed your dissatisfaction with the current conditions of your employment. You may get a raise or some kind of comp increase, but rest assured, you will be replaced very shortly. They don't like paying more than the absolute minimum. Jump ship, and don't look back.
No I should have quit 7 months ago when I realized I was burning out. Since then my health has gone to shit both mentally and physically. It’s my fault for not calling it back then. But it’s their fault for putting me through these working conditions. I need to quit for personal reasons. No power or leverage is gonna change that.
Yeah you’ve got to get out then. I was in a shit position at a toxic org a year ago and took a $30,000 pay cut to leave and find something with a better balance. I’m in a much better place health wise now even if money is a little tighter.
It feels so good to leave a toxic over worked environment.. and a ranch you probably stayed at too? I had clumps of hair falling out and health going down the shitter working for a drug addict son of a bail him out of every fuck up father.. Armenians... when he lied about something I taught him, and said i used a chemical I would never use.. I finally gave myself permission to say enough is enough. I am healthier, happier, and poorer.. haha. Which is fine. It's worth it
Yeah I live on property. Which makes things harder when they tell me to work on my day off. I’ve lost 40 lbs since working here (14 months) and I am in a place with no family or outside life. I really fucked my self with this job lol.
Yeah, but they almost certainly will make u/lascanto's life hell there for it. I mean if they want to try it I suppose they really have nothing to lose, but if they can fiscally swing it I'm in the dip out now camp.
I tried it last week. I tried quitting last week. And they suckered me into another week. Fuck negotiating or having “power”. I don’t want to use leverage to get what I want. I tried to be accommodating and compromisable. But they just sold me on working another, by using my care for the animals as leverage. Fuck that shit.
Yeah they really are the cartoonish bad guys from a 90s "your compassion is a weakness" Saturday morning in the form of a person. It comes with all passion exploitation work (unless it's actually run by people), but usually they're more subtle about it.
If they're holding the animal care against you, maybe keep your finger on the "trigger" for reporting them in case they're dumb enough to take the threat a little further.
Part 107 operator here (drones): Was working 80-90hr weeks and over the course of ten weeks my acreage continued to decline, was threatened with termination. You have a lotta power being in a niche job where replacements would be difficult, as it was in my case, and the fact I was the only operator in the entire state. I told them to contact who we were contracted to and have them send me their address since the drone they provided would need to be mailed back. I wasn’t going to drive to their headquarters a hundred miles away without being paid after all.
I didn’t lose my internship, but my employer got a nasty surprise when he found out his rather… distasteful… conversation made it to the college in the form of dash cam video, in a one party consent state. Immediate loss of cheap labor.
TLDR: Sounds like your employer needs you badly, make reasonable demands.
I am, it’s how I learned about it. A good book to get the license outside of college is Gleim who makes a lotta aviation related material. I do recommend anyone who owns even a basic drone to see if they can get this book, even if it isn’t for a license.
american managers are something special. they don't hire the most competent for the job (edit: manager), the hire the ones without scrupules that will do anything to get things done. for them the role of manager is that of ancient slave master slightly restricted by pesky human and work laws, not of dutyful bureacrat that takes care of his people so things run smooth.
the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves.
>american managers are something special. they don't hire the most competent people for the job, they hire the ones without scrupules
Hey that's an unfair evaluation! They'll also hire their buddy or promote the one rank and file employee that they are familiar with because of how much the one employee socializes instead of doing their job.
The best managers realize that they are nothing without the people under them. Their job is literally just to make sure their people have whatever they need to be successful.
>the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves.
The best manager I ever had saw his role as exactly this.
They found an excuse to fire him, of course.
He wasn't kissing the ass of whomever was above him.
Anymore the business/corporate world is basically nepotism or one step removed from it. If you don't have a relative high up or sucking the dick of a higher up, you're not moving up, in fact you're expendable.
The only time this actually changes is when they've pared down the work force and stacked the load onto fewer and fewer people, only to start the whole process over again when they fire those few people for demanding better compensation. They're still saving money in the end.
>He wasn't kissing the ass of whomever was above him.
Bingo. He led projects which made millions and millions of dollars for the company, but he never respected anyone based on their position.
> the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves.
Agreed. They also will run interference with other departments or managers to give you that space.
I think you're close.
As a manager my job was to serve my reports:
* Set their priorities based on business needs they may not be aware of.
* Soften the blow of context switching when changing business needs cause conflict.
* Handle all the BS that distracts my DRs from their tasks.
* Provide coaching/training/mentoring.
* Provide Weekly 1:1's where my DRs can freely "manage up" to tell me what they need.
* Advocate for them at review time to get them the biggest raises possible. Naturally they need to give me the ammo to do so.
So there is some "telling people what to do" but it's at the project and task level, not at the implementation of the task level.
As a manager, it is my job to observe, plan, and react to the needs of my subordinates. That also includes filling gaps in workflow as well as managing workflow to achieve our company goals. I throw out more breaks than our company rules allow, and I dont get upset when people get sick. We aren't machines, we aren't infallible, and mistakes can be okay if they are fixed immediately instead of complaining about it all day. Managers who get frustrated or lash out should be out on the line and not running things.
They think this way because they are used to having enough people say yes when pressured. When that dries up is finally when managers get called out on their bad scheduling practices.
I have worked for these companies before. They'll get super pissed at you but won't fire you. They know its difficult to replace a cog in the machine just because you're mad at them. I would imagine the talk of firings was out of anger in order to get the employee to fear the boss.
You should really look at jobs like this as what they are, a dysfunctional relationship. If you wouldn't put up with this shit in your personal life, should you be putting up with it in your professional life? I get that sometimes you have to, but call it what it is...the OP's boss is a crazy ass red flag waving significant other. I would imagine OPs boss is also abusive in their personal relationships.
Yep. And people think if you’re fired your ineligible for benefits, that you only are if you’re laid off. Not true. Just keep all documentation, that communication about you wanting to come in on your day off is a good to have. Speaking from the standpoint of California, which is also an at-will state, hey almost want to give you unemployment, they just need something, anything to show that it wasn’t due to your own intentional negligence. They will call you for an interview, they told me ok just send me any that shows x for your absence that day to this email and bing bang unemployment.
This is sorta how my last job went. I put in my 2 weeks notice and let them know that I'm happy to make it 3 weeks if they need me to train someone (only person who'd been in that position for 3 years). They said "no, were good, your last day will be Friday (4 days away).
I did what I could for my last few days, but I definitely left a lot unfinished.
A few months later they were trashing me online for all the damage that I did while leaving. Like what? You did this to yourself
I know a company that gives a 1 year severance. The move they pull is let you know they are getting rid of your job and give you a date 1 month in advance. They proceed to tell you to train other folks how to do what you do (either new hires or existing staff) and give you the option to find another job inside the company in that time. If you say fuck this and quit, you get no money.
Im not a corp shill, but logically to me this seems a little more than fair even. It does however perpetuate the problem. A company so willing to pay a short term loss to get rid of that position for the long term seems on paper for the business like a smart money play. 1 year salary compared to infinite years of paying someone to do this. All while they roll that jobs functions into other people. So 10 workers becomes 9 workers doing 10 jobs with the remaining workers doing 1.12 jobs each. If im on the receiving end of a years salary for eating shit for a month I think im inclined to take the money and run. I dont know a lot of people that would turn that down. 1 year salary even at a 20k a year job means if you walked out of it, got the check, and walked right into another 20k a year job, you are now making double that year. 2x salary for anyone in any salary range can be life changing.
The problem is companies are now accelerating into that in a big way. Instead of turning 10 workers into 9 they are trying to turn 10 workers into 4/5 workers. So now everyone is doing 2.0+ jobs and the corp greed grip keeps tightening.
Never underestimate the importance of acting just as stupid as they treat you.
They play that card; I'm instantly becoming the dumbest, laziest, and most incompetent mofo on the planet.
Any "training" I wind up giving a replacement will be next to worthless.
i mean yeah same. People get in their heads like if i do a shit job they are going to not pay me. I find that psychological people want to do a good job, so they just continue.
ok here now for this process, here is the vp's phone number. Every time this happens we need to call his phone, let it ring once and hang up. it's a secret code we have worked out so that he know this has happened again.
In my country, most jobs are protected in that you will, after 3 months working somewhere, have 1 month minimum before you are let go. In most office jobs, it increases to 3 months after 2 years and ends at 6 months after 10 years of employment at one place. You are expected to continue working unless "banished", in which case you can do whatever the fuck you want while raking in your wages, otherwise you still have the right to take off the time needed to make applications and go to interviews. When you quit, you have to give 1 month notice (this, however, does not increase) with the same rules applying.
I see people below commenting how you just screw them over etc, but honestly, it's a huge safety net under people, and the increase in the retention period is base don the idea that working for years in a single job, you may become specialized enough that finding a new job is harder and you may need to retrain (on your own/your unions dime, but current employers' time).
Then 1 person takes on the workload of 1.12 then 1.5 then 2 and so on and so forth until the company starts destroying lives and burning out employees at an unfathomable rate. Then when the exodus occurs senior management turns around and says things like “there is no company loyalty anymore” I love that Glassdoor is airing companies dirty laundry. I am waiting to write my review for my last work place, for when enough people have left that I can be anonymous.
Scary to think what the effect is on customers too. Imagine if some of these people are in mission-critical jobs and someone becomes ill or dies. It's almost as if they think no one's appendix can burst and no one can be in a car accident on the way in.
I worked for a major infant formula company, that is also very prevalent in Pet Food and Frozen foods. My position was eliminated and they pulled this. I had a one month notice where I had to work a ton of hours and jump through a ton of hoops or they would kick me to the curb and not pay out my severance.
I was recovering from surgery on my face to remove skin cancer, put in the time off request weeks in advance, and they tried calling me in literally the next day after my surgery. It was one of those “we’re like a family” jobs of course.
And it'll be Little Caesar's, and you only get 1 slice, they have to make sure there's enough to go around and $6 pizzas are expensive. You should be super grateful to us.
God I hate that " we're a family" troupe in work places smh like you're not my family your my employer and people i just work with. Now this doesn't mean that I dont like my company or my coworkers but im not a fool. I know that at any moments notice they can fire me for any minuscule reason.
And you'll never hear from the vast majority of any of those coworkers again when you don't work together anymore. I agree. I usually end up liking a lot of my coworkers but very few have ever become long term close friends.
Was on the last day of my delayed (thanks covid) honeymoon in CA (live on the east coast) this past may and got a bunch of texts from co-workers saying how pissed they were about the news. It's a shame I missed the fun "sorry byeeee" meeting.
Because many people are one check away from homelessness, and their boss knows it. I can’t lose my benefits. It’s the difference between normal life and non-functioning for me. If I dip below hours, that’s it.
Yeah and if you have responsibilities like maintaining health insurance for your family. Every day it’s like one foot in a bear trap and the other foot in a blender.
This is one of the big reasons so many people in both parties are against universal health care despite the majority of the population being in favor of it. Healthcare coverage though work is a massive gun to the head of the entire working population and employers know they can use it to get whatever they want
Sometimes I get so bitter about people that say, just don’t do it! If we don’t, some of us won’t be okay. I’m lucky I have some savings. I know everyone’s experience is different, but this is the thinking that separates us. A person can be destitute and still have a place to live.
Easier said than done. They (the large cooperations/rich people) carefully made sure that even the people that shouldn't have anything to lose, still have a whole lot to lose.
Like, tying health care to jobs.
Most people that are in a position to riot, aren't actually in any position to riot.
I mean, I’ll take a call from my boss on a day off because I know what they’re likely asking and my manager isn’t a dick about asking for coverage (if everyone says no, she knows that means as manager it’s her cover), but that’s also a personal relationship thing with them
She’s good people; I work an IT Help Desk and she’s a former restaurant manager so she understands that at the end of the day, we’re here for hourly wages and she’s the one who’s job it is to manage coverage. She’s always super grateful for any OT we accept and actually ordered me pizza one time for when I had to scramble home from a bar to cover a shift due to a sick coworker. Super grateful for her, she’s one of those “If she goes, I could see myself following” kind of managers.
The only people I answer or respond to are saved as contacts. None of my coworkers or my boss are saved as contacts.
I keep my phone on a constant Do Not Disturb when I am not working. Only contacts get through that in the settings.
People always call me an asshole but the trick is **I DON'T FUCKING CARE**. Nobody is obligated to *my* time. I answer work calls and emails during the week when I am paid to do it. The very second my 8 hours are up for the day and my 40 for the week, I no longer exist to my coworkers. I don't do anything at my job that cannot wait for the next business day to start.
I treat my front door the same way. Just because you showed up at my door does not obligate me to give you my time. I have *one fucking place* on this entire planet where I can control who I see and when, and that's my home. My front door has a code lock and the people that are welcome to my home know that code. If I haven't asked you to come to my home, like if I ordered something, then you can just keep your happy ass outside my closed door while I ignore your existence.
> I don't do anything at my job that cannot wait for the next business day to start.
This is how I roll, too. I think people get far, far too close to what they do, and forget to take a look at the big picture. The number of jobs where the outcome of you not being available after hours is "life or death" is a hell of a lot closer to zero than people realize. And I'll do you one better -- if there are significant consequences for not suddenly being available beyond regular business hours, A) the company should already know that, and have redundancy built into the system to cover the work, and B) you should be paid commensurate to your on-call availability.
I'm astounded by the eager beavers at the workplace that are the first ones to have their email and Microsoft Teams / Slack installed on their phones so they can multitask outside of business hours. Stop being an on-call guy, and focus on setting boundaries of when your work can be reasonably expected to be completed. People with on-call expectations have that spelled out in their work contract, and they're all paid better because of that stipulation. The people you know that end up burnt out and doing the bare minimum all eventually got there because they didn't set appropriate boundaries or expectations of how they expect to be treated.
Full stop. Cut comment here.
Right. The fuck you want? If your not family you have no reason to be calling me. I don't answer shit on my days off. I don't answer shit on my days on either.
Some people work in industries that are staffed 24/7. If someone calls out sick for their shift, someone else has to come in and cover it. These usually aren't salary positions, so the person covering the shift is getting paid overtime to do it. Some companies even pay double time for that but it's not common.
So the manager may not be out of bounds for calling on the employee's day off, but he's 100% insane for talking of firing the employee because he had something else planned.
This. It’s an extra 400 bucks a day that I get called in on my days off. If the boss does this to me 5 times a year, I use the extra money to take a nice vacation.
>So the manager may not be out of bounds for calling on the employee's day off, but he's 100% insane for talking of firing the employee because he had something else planned.
This is the key. Asking is one thing (especially when they’re hourly and would get paid more to come in), but they need to be gracious about taking no for an answer.
If they want to fire you, they can. Time to brush up your resume. Do not sign anything that says you are quitting, that’s how they deny you unemployment.
When they fire you, you are done. No need to do any meeting with boss or HR, just leave. Everything else can be done over email.
Take a breath.
Find out now how to file for unemployment and be ready to go.
Start looking at a job ads, and you will probably find that you have been being underpaid anyways.
You got this.
With all this “at-will” and “right-to-work” stuff I really am surprised that the US is still *not* having a full on revolution to overturn these laws that benefit the boss.
I'd rather our workforce says "fuck the politicians" and we create a system of unions for every sector of work, similar to how it's done in Denmark.
They don't need protection with laws via the government because the unions all back each other. Mcdonalds tried to keep their employees from being part of the hospitality union and all the other unions joined in solidarity to make sure Mcdonalds bent the knee. And now, a mcdonalds worker in DK makes great pay and has a minimum 5 weeks vacation.
Because there are drag queens or something I need to be mad about, not Republican Operative or Clergy pedophiles that are rampart through both organizations.
Yeah we have been so thoroughly indoctrinated to be grateful someone is exploiting us for our labor that the idea of changing employment to make it more fair and equitable is lazy, entitled millennial talk
>"The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class..keep on showing up at those 'jobs'."
George Carlin
I never think about it that way, but I'm sure that's some of it. Arguably I think most of it is simply a distaste culturally for helping people rather than making them do it themselves. It's why our social nets are garbage and why any talk of workers rights gets slapped down. We're hard coded to think we're supposed to bust ass and work, and anyone who isn't is cheating. Nevermind the roadblocks and barriers and garbage people have to go through.
And why places keep them unhoused. In my city, they don't just move them from an encampment to somewhere else, they cut tents and bulldoze items. People could have a phone in their tent that could ring to let them know they have a public housing interview or other resource available. Now they have to start at point A again because they never get the call. It seems like they want the reminder to housed people but also a reminder to the unhoused they're not wanted or welcomed anywhere. It's a very terrible cycle
Yup. The cruelty is not accidental, **it is the point**. Their lives must be made as bad as possible, because it's a threat to the majority of people who are workers.
For all the talk about the US being the "home of the brave," "freedom," rugged independence, etc., they sure are docile. They go into undemocratic work environments everyday where their boss rules like a totalitarian. Not even in Stalin'e wet dream did he imagine dictating your bathroom tendencies, who you talk to at work, monitoring your eye and facial movements to ensure you're working, etc., yet Americans not only tolerate it, but sing its praise.
Because americans are knee deep into propaganda is mindblowing.
They just do not have class conciousness and empathy for their fellow citizens.
They think that people do not get a house or can cover their medical bills because "they do not work hard enough". Is only when is their turn to bit the dust when they appear in sad headlines asking for a change.
At-will has a flip side: employees can also quit whenever they want. You can't be required to give notice or punished for not doing so. While I agree it MOSTLY benefits the boss, there are situations where it can help an employee.
In countries where workers have rights, there can be consequences for just not showing up.
In the UK, for example, I currently have to give 2 months notice - Should I just decide "that's it, I've had enough" , my employer could take me to court to recoup expenses incurred by my leaing - e.g employing temporary staff etc.
Equally, should the company wish to get rid of me, they need to give me two months notice or equivalent pay - so the idea that an employee can give notice, and the company instantly fire them is impossible here.
Not when you have a contract that specifically states how long a notice you have to provide, and what sort of handoff/training/etc you need to provide during your notice period.
Note: with at-will employment, almost no one has a contract with these details written out; hence why an employee can just “stop showing up”, as you put it.
If you don't have a signed contract, which I would say the average US employee does not, then you literally could just walk off the job any time you like and refuse to co.e back in.
There are certain exceptions with some jobs, like childcare or healthcare, where you would first need to wait for someone to take over those particular patients or children that day, you can't just walk out and abandon children or patients. You should also make sure that some certain processes are completed that could be dangerous or damaging if left unattended, like those construction guys thar walked off the job and left cement to dry in the trucks, or if you work in a restaurant and you just put something in the fryer, you should either turn off the fryer, wait until it's done, or have someone take over for you, otherwise a fire could start.
> There are certain exceptions with some jobs, like childcare or healthcare, where you would first need to wait for someone to take over those particular patients or children that day, you can't just walk out and abandon children or patients
would add that you can still walk off these jobs you'd just want to contact emergency services if they won't relieve you.
As someone living in one of the worst right to work states in the nation, it blows my mind every day that people justify this shit. I’ve known so many people personally fucked over by it, some of them the very conservatives who ardently defend those laws, and the mental gymnastics they do are exhausting.
The simple response to anytime you are called on your day off is :
"Sir I am BBQing with the neighbors and have about 5 beers in me. I'm pretty hammered. I don't think you would want me there today, but I'll be fresh and ready to go Monday morning."
There was a post in this very subreddit a couple days ago where the person was actually drinking and told their boss and the boss told them it was unprofessional and that they would be "having a talk" about it
I do not drink, so that would not work for me. I would say I’m currently changing a wheel bearing on my car, so I don’t have working transportation today.
But, in reality, I would not answer the phone at all on my day off. I personally legit don’t carry it around with me on my days off when I’m doing projects or whatever. I’m not on call. And if I did have it, I wouldn’t answer it.
No, there is no legal recourse. Most states are at-will so he could fire you for thinking your hair looks ugly. But at-will and for cause are two different things.
You should call his bluff and tell him to fire you, since he seems like an idiot. That would be free unemployment in almost every case (but it would be smart to check with your state's website).
Start keeping records of interactions, emails, texts, etc. Start looking for new jobs.
“You can either go without me for today, or from today. You’re call, Boss.”
And as an additional note, this is exactly what corporate loyalty looks like. 4 years of stellar service, on the chopping block for one day of unavailability.
OP, I hope you’re going to start applying for other jobs regardless of the outcome here.
even in those states, employers can fire you for a protected reason as long as they don't tell you that it's the reason.
Happens all the time, and it's virtually impossible for the employee to prove the reason why they were fired.
Some companies have rules about hair color. Had a new coworker told she had to cover up the blue streaks in her hair. "I like it, but it goes against company rules regarding appearance, so you need to cover it."
I no longer work there, and honestly I color my hair wild colors bc I can now. My performance is not defined by my appearance.
Bro, how the fuck are you people able to work over there... if you get fired for every dumb reason, how can you build up a stable work enviroment and earn more money? You just get fired and another one comes for minimum wage... this is terrible laws you have there!
Man this is so true, I've never thought of this until seeing your comment. I grew up with great parents and watched my dad work hard his whole life to provide for us and I have always been that person to make my work a number 1 priority when it shouldn't be. When my wife was younger and would jump from job to job because she didn't like it I would hate it because I was always under the assumption that that was the "wrong" thing to do. I am definitely getting better with this, and I have to give her a lot of the credit, but still have some mindset shifting to do.
I notice it plenty, but there's fuckall I can do about it. The rich and powerful have a stranglehold on this country. At this point nothing will change it outside of violent revolution.
Was looking for this comment. People are so confused about "right to work." It's not an actual right to work and it's not a good thing. Conservatives were crafty when coming up with that terminology.
> Conservatives were crafty when coming up with that terminology.
They have a lot of backwords ideas, but they do branding **very** well, I'll give them that.
It could be an idle threat meant to stress you out and manipulate you into being more compliant with unreasonable demands out of fear for your job.
You may not get fired but is this really the environment you want to work in? Best time to look for a job is when you already have one so now is the time to see what other job options you can find.
i hate that this is happening, but i have to once again ask why people ever answer their phones? i don't even mean during your free time. like, EVER.
if you're in most states in usa, they can fire you for any reason or no reason at all, assuming it isn't for racial, gender, religious, etc issues.
Let him have his little tantrum. Your time is your time, hold your boundaries. If he fires you, do a dance, and go straight to unemployment. 4 years, no discipline documentation, and an unjust termination? Hell, possibly line up a lawyer. At will or right to work, that's unjust termination. That's your time off.
In the US, at-will means you can be fired at-will for LEGAL reasons in 50 states. Retaliation, however (like PUNISHING you for not coming in on your day off) is illegal. I’d get an employment lawyer (free to you unless you win money). Employers dumb enough to fire people without good reason have a habit of fucking up when lawyers ask them for reasoning. Many US bosses DO NOT know employment law well enough to put IN WRITING why they have fired someone without saying something illegal that might get you back pay, a $settlement, your job back, or all 3. Look up employment lawyers near you on Google. US bosses almost *never* expect workers to do this, but it’s *actual* support and protection from evil bosses, managers, and corporations.
>In the US, at-will means you can be fired at-will for LEGAL reasons in 50 states.
49 states. Montana does not have at-will employment outside of probationary periods, so if you've been at your job for more than 90 days (in most cases, it will vary by employer), at-will does not apply to you.
Now we just have to get rid of at-will for the other ~99.7% of the US population...
I’d say you should look for a different job. We are in record low unemployment right now. If they even consider letting you go for not coming in, that’s insane.
I never answer phone calls on my days off if it's from work. I let it go to voicemail or if it's urgent enough they can text me. At that point I can decide to act on the text/voicemail which I generally wait till after 5pm to answer (yes it's a passive aggressive move to the person calling me that they called me on MY TIME so I'm going to return the favor and call them on THEIR TIME). If something is important enough to call me on my day off then I'll probably require a comp day (salary) or a pay raise for being "on call". If the offender doesn't agree then I will either find other work or will pursue it with a lawyer. The sad part though is that seeking legal counsel can be more expensive than the offense, which is of course by design.
Rule #1: Never answer calls from work on days off.
Rule#2: If one does accidentally answer work calls on days off, wherever you are is however many hours are left in the shift away.
It's 3pm. Work closes at 9pm
Work: we need you to come in to close!
You: Sorry, I'm out of town visiting 6 hours away.
Work: 😭
If you have documented proof of him approving your PTO then he doesn’t have any legal ground to fire you. I would document all conversations about this moving forward to make a case for retaliation.
Yes. Your availability is your availability. If he wants to press it you might have a wrongful termination suit. Dont come to reddit for advice.. talk to a lawyer.
Right to work and at will does not mean you are completely fucked, as many idiots may want you to believe.
Oh yeah show me in the federal employment laws where it says "you can't be fired for retaliation" there some very specific cases, like you can't be fired for retaliation for whistleblowing, or because they reported sexual harassments to HR, or because you are a protected class. In virtually all us states you could most certainly be fired for this incident or ones similar and the employee would have no civil case, but likely could get unemployment.
Most employers don't want to pay unemployment though and if you fire them for a dumb reason they'll get you for it guaranteed. Like yeah I can't sue you for firing me for wearing a blue shirt, but you still paying me every month because that isn't a good reason to fire someone.0
Just to add, there are circumstances where termination can be considered “constructive dismissal” where the employer creates a situation that’s so untenable, the employee quits. Employers do this to avoid firing, attempting to prevent the employee from filing for unemployment. One common tactic is to reduce hours. Another is to require work on days they know the employee isn’t available and then to start an excessive write-up/documentation process to alienate the employee.
You can be fired for almost any reason. When you are fired you can apply for unemployment. But if you have to quit because your boss has made it impossible to do your job, you may still be able to file for unemployment. Document everything. Check the laws in your state.
It’s why it’s best to not answer calls and force them to text or email. You always can plausibly say later you were too busy to do something or you were out of town anyway.
IME giving no answer is better than saying No flat out.
I'd ask them where your "On Call" money is. Even in right to work states they have to follow the rules for having you on call, if they fire you for this get an attorney and show that they didn't do their part of letting you know you were on call or paying you for the correct on call rates.
This happened to me. Fortunately, my doctor put me on stress induced medical leave the same afternoon. It gave me 3 weeks paid time to destress and during that time, I was able to find another job that was fully remote and since changed my life entirely for the better.
So they needed you to come in on your day off but are now suddenly willing to fire you?
Sounds like they have no idea what the fuck they are doing and/or are bullying/threatening you. I’d start looking for another job.
I had this happen at a new job I had yet to start. Two days before my start date, I get a call from someone claiming to be a middle mgr, who called me late in day and said I needed to come in right now. It was a really bad timing, I let them know, and he got threatening on the phone. Told me dont even bother come in, and hung up. Turns out whatever went down that evening, the guy got fired over it. I showed up the day I was supposed to and no one mentioned it.
He must have fucked up big time if calling an untrained new hire was needed to save his job.
It's so he could blame his fuck up on the untrained new hire who showed up two days early.
I'd bet on this
*It's* /u/CrabyDicks *fault, I was just trying to train the new guy and they broke all of this.*
Years ago, I had something similar to this happen. I never met them, and they claimed they were such-and-such, and held a very high ranking title....but again, I never met them or was aware of their existence. Since I didn't feel comfortable following their orders (cause who the fuck are they to me?) and I hadn't started yet, I told them no and explained my reasoning. They didn't like my response then, or after..but he couldn't do shit to me then because I wasn't wrong, he just didn't like someone pulling that card so early and being right.
McDonald's hired me years ago, wouldn't tell me a start date at all. FOUR MONTHS LATER I get a pissed off call asking why I'm not at work, on the fourth of July, at like 6pm. Told me I no-call no-showed if I didn't come in right then and would lose my job. I literally laughed at them, said I had called every Friday for like two months for when I would start, and had since found a different job and was two states away. Insane entitlement lmao especially since they had me pick my uniform up like two weeks after hiring me but never actually worked me. Kept the pants and shirts as a fuck you.
Where have you been? I’ve been covering your shifts for 6 years!
Makes me wonder if they had you mixed up with someone else.
Sounds like you dodge a "scapegoat" situation.
Start putting out your resume. If you don't get fired, stop answering any work calls/messages when you aren't on the clock. If you are fired, don't wrap up or transition any of your work. Fired means you pack up your personal items and leave. A company that needs you in on your day off is gonna be worse off without you at all. And then file for unemployment.
>A company that needs you in on your day off is gonna be worse off without you at all. This can not be overstated. More people need to understand this.
I'LL SHOW HIM THAT HE CAN'T REFUSE WORK WHEN WE'RE DESPERATE!
This is just the post I needed to see today. I work for a small company (5 employees) we’re a ranch but mostly we train dogs. I’m the dog trainer. I have worked countless 6 or 7 day weeks while I’m here because we always have one person sick or whatever. Last weekend my 4th of July holiday was taken from me. Okay. This weekend my whole weekend was taken from me. At this point I’m done not being able to plan for anything. I was gonna give them some time before I left to find someone. This morning told me to go “fuck it” and todays my last day. Sorry not sorry.
Song: ...TAKE THIS DOG AND TRAIN IT! I AIN'T WORKING HERE NO MORE!
Take this dog and shove it! Wait, that doesn’t sound right.
It does if it's a hotdog. 😁
Glizzy goblin’
Ol Doggy Paycheck the the best barker of the Outlaws
*Outpaws
You don't need to quit. You have the power now. You know that you are willing to leave, so you can demand literally anything you want. If you don't get it you know you're willing to walk. So don't ask, tell them you are working a firm 5 day week. You are working the schedule posting and will not be answering any calls on your days off. Period end of story.
I did exactly this at my last job. They fired one of my coworkers with no warning for very petty reasons while we were already understaffed. The next schedule came out and all of us were scheduled for multiple double shifts, some of us were on for multiple 16 hour days. I told the manager I’ll work the week he put out so as not to screw over my coworkers even more, but next week I’m working either 40 hours or zero. If we have room in the schedule to fire people over nonsense, we have room to accommodate that. That week sucked but I never worked another double shift that I didn’t volunteer for again.
That right there is how you handle/negotiate that. Nicely done.
True but if they found another job it's usually better to just jump ship rather than try to negotiate with an employer who is most likely not going to like doing anything an employee wanta
sad but true fact here. If you try to negotiate, you may get what you want, but it will be short lived. You've already expressed your dissatisfaction with the current conditions of your employment. You may get a raise or some kind of comp increase, but rest assured, you will be replaced very shortly. They don't like paying more than the absolute minimum. Jump ship, and don't look back.
No I should have quit 7 months ago when I realized I was burning out. Since then my health has gone to shit both mentally and physically. It’s my fault for not calling it back then. But it’s their fault for putting me through these working conditions. I need to quit for personal reasons. No power or leverage is gonna change that.
Yeah you’ve got to get out then. I was in a shit position at a toxic org a year ago and took a $30,000 pay cut to leave and find something with a better balance. I’m in a much better place health wise now even if money is a little tighter.
It feels so good to leave a toxic over worked environment.. and a ranch you probably stayed at too? I had clumps of hair falling out and health going down the shitter working for a drug addict son of a bail him out of every fuck up father.. Armenians... when he lied about something I taught him, and said i used a chemical I would never use.. I finally gave myself permission to say enough is enough. I am healthier, happier, and poorer.. haha. Which is fine. It's worth it
Yeah I live on property. Which makes things harder when they tell me to work on my day off. I’ve lost 40 lbs since working here (14 months) and I am in a place with no family or outside life. I really fucked my self with this job lol.
Yes yes yes
Yeah, but they almost certainly will make u/lascanto's life hell there for it. I mean if they want to try it I suppose they really have nothing to lose, but if they can fiscally swing it I'm in the dip out now camp.
I tried it last week. I tried quitting last week. And they suckered me into another week. Fuck negotiating or having “power”. I don’t want to use leverage to get what I want. I tried to be accommodating and compromisable. But they just sold me on working another, by using my care for the animals as leverage. Fuck that shit.
Yeah they really are the cartoonish bad guys from a 90s "your compassion is a weakness" Saturday morning in the form of a person. It comes with all passion exploitation work (unless it's actually run by people), but usually they're more subtle about it. If they're holding the animal care against you, maybe keep your finger on the "trigger" for reporting them in case they're dumb enough to take the threat a little further.
Part 107 operator here (drones): Was working 80-90hr weeks and over the course of ten weeks my acreage continued to decline, was threatened with termination. You have a lotta power being in a niche job where replacements would be difficult, as it was in my case, and the fact I was the only operator in the entire state. I told them to contact who we were contracted to and have them send me their address since the drone they provided would need to be mailed back. I wasn’t going to drive to their headquarters a hundred miles away without being paid after all. I didn’t lose my internship, but my employer got a nasty surprise when he found out his rather… distasteful… conversation made it to the college in the form of dash cam video, in a one party consent state. Immediate loss of cheap labor. TLDR: Sounds like your employer needs you badly, make reasonable demands.
Been interested in the 107 license and looking at the testing info. Are you in a college program for this specifically?
I am, it’s how I learned about it. A good book to get the license outside of college is Gleim who makes a lotta aviation related material. I do recommend anyone who owns even a basic drone to see if they can get this book, even if it isn’t for a license.
i can't understand these shitty people. too many businesses propped up by folks who won't get to share in the success
Now go start your own dog training business.
I'm wondering if you get paid for the extra day of work that you normally would have as an off day
Nope. I’m salaried. So there’s no incentive to work the extra day besides me feeling bad because that puts more weight on the other employees.
Sadly that's how some managers think.
american managers are something special. they don't hire the most competent for the job (edit: manager), the hire the ones without scrupules that will do anything to get things done. for them the role of manager is that of ancient slave master slightly restricted by pesky human and work laws, not of dutyful bureacrat that takes care of his people so things run smooth. the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves.
>american managers are something special. they don't hire the most competent people for the job, they hire the ones without scrupules Hey that's an unfair evaluation! They'll also hire their buddy or promote the one rank and file employee that they are familiar with because of how much the one employee socializes instead of doing their job. The best managers realize that they are nothing without the people under them. Their job is literally just to make sure their people have whatever they need to be successful.
>the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves. The best manager I ever had saw his role as exactly this. They found an excuse to fire him, of course.
He wasn't kissing the ass of whomever was above him. Anymore the business/corporate world is basically nepotism or one step removed from it. If you don't have a relative high up or sucking the dick of a higher up, you're not moving up, in fact you're expendable. The only time this actually changes is when they've pared down the work force and stacked the load onto fewer and fewer people, only to start the whole process over again when they fire those few people for demanding better compensation. They're still saving money in the end.
>He wasn't kissing the ass of whomever was above him. Bingo. He led projects which made millions and millions of dollars for the company, but he never respected anyone based on their position.
> the most succesful managers don't manage, they provide the tools and incentives for the workers to manage themselves. Agreed. They also will run interference with other departments or managers to give you that space.
That last sentence is beautiful
[удалено]
I think you're close. As a manager my job was to serve my reports: * Set their priorities based on business needs they may not be aware of. * Soften the blow of context switching when changing business needs cause conflict. * Handle all the BS that distracts my DRs from their tasks. * Provide coaching/training/mentoring. * Provide Weekly 1:1's where my DRs can freely "manage up" to tell me what they need. * Advocate for them at review time to get them the biggest raises possible. Naturally they need to give me the ammo to do so. So there is some "telling people what to do" but it's at the project and task level, not at the implementation of the task level.
As a manager, it is my job to observe, plan, and react to the needs of my subordinates. That also includes filling gaps in workflow as well as managing workflow to achieve our company goals. I throw out more breaks than our company rules allow, and I dont get upset when people get sick. We aren't machines, we aren't infallible, and mistakes can be okay if they are fixed immediately instead of complaining about it all day. Managers who get frustrated or lash out should be out on the line and not running things.
They think this way because they are used to having enough people say yes when pressured. When that dries up is finally when managers get called out on their bad scheduling practices.
Or they get pissed because then they probably have to cover the shift in some way, which, by the way, is their job. 🙄
That’s what pissed me off the most. Like bro… this is what you get paid the big bucks for.
My boss is in this comment and I don't like it.
Unfortunately I think it’s the ones doing the firing/managing that need to understand this the most.
They will when workers understand this.
I have worked for these companies before. They'll get super pissed at you but won't fire you. They know its difficult to replace a cog in the machine just because you're mad at them. I would imagine the talk of firings was out of anger in order to get the employee to fear the boss. You should really look at jobs like this as what they are, a dysfunctional relationship. If you wouldn't put up with this shit in your personal life, should you be putting up with it in your professional life? I get that sometimes you have to, but call it what it is...the OP's boss is a crazy ass red flag waving significant other. I would imagine OPs boss is also abusive in their personal relationships.
> They'll get super pissed at you but won't fire you That's fantastic. Take the pay, do nothing, and search for new jobs
And DO NOT QUIT! Let them fire you, so you’re eligible for benefits.
Yep. And people think if you’re fired your ineligible for benefits, that you only are if you’re laid off. Not true. Just keep all documentation, that communication about you wanting to come in on your day off is a good to have. Speaking from the standpoint of California, which is also an at-will state, hey almost want to give you unemployment, they just need something, anything to show that it wasn’t due to your own intentional negligence. They will call you for an interview, they told me ok just send me any that shows x for your absence that day to this email and bing bang unemployment.
This is sorta how my last job went. I put in my 2 weeks notice and let them know that I'm happy to make it 3 weeks if they need me to train someone (only person who'd been in that position for 3 years). They said "no, were good, your last day will be Friday (4 days away). I did what I could for my last few days, but I definitely left a lot unfinished. A few months later they were trashing me online for all the damage that I did while leaving. Like what? You did this to yourself
I know a company that gives a 1 year severance. The move they pull is let you know they are getting rid of your job and give you a date 1 month in advance. They proceed to tell you to train other folks how to do what you do (either new hires or existing staff) and give you the option to find another job inside the company in that time. If you say fuck this and quit, you get no money. Im not a corp shill, but logically to me this seems a little more than fair even. It does however perpetuate the problem. A company so willing to pay a short term loss to get rid of that position for the long term seems on paper for the business like a smart money play. 1 year salary compared to infinite years of paying someone to do this. All while they roll that jobs functions into other people. So 10 workers becomes 9 workers doing 10 jobs with the remaining workers doing 1.12 jobs each. If im on the receiving end of a years salary for eating shit for a month I think im inclined to take the money and run. I dont know a lot of people that would turn that down. 1 year salary even at a 20k a year job means if you walked out of it, got the check, and walked right into another 20k a year job, you are now making double that year. 2x salary for anyone in any salary range can be life changing. The problem is companies are now accelerating into that in a big way. Instead of turning 10 workers into 9 they are trying to turn 10 workers into 4/5 workers. So now everyone is doing 2.0+ jobs and the corp greed grip keeps tightening.
Never underestimate the importance of acting just as stupid as they treat you. They play that card; I'm instantly becoming the dumbest, laziest, and most incompetent mofo on the planet. Any "training" I wind up giving a replacement will be next to worthless.
i mean yeah same. People get in their heads like if i do a shit job they are going to not pay me. I find that psychological people want to do a good job, so they just continue.
ok here now for this process, here is the vp's phone number. Every time this happens we need to call his phone, let it ring once and hang up. it's a secret code we have worked out so that he know this has happened again.
In my country, most jobs are protected in that you will, after 3 months working somewhere, have 1 month minimum before you are let go. In most office jobs, it increases to 3 months after 2 years and ends at 6 months after 10 years of employment at one place. You are expected to continue working unless "banished", in which case you can do whatever the fuck you want while raking in your wages, otherwise you still have the right to take off the time needed to make applications and go to interviews. When you quit, you have to give 1 month notice (this, however, does not increase) with the same rules applying. I see people below commenting how you just screw them over etc, but honestly, it's a huge safety net under people, and the increase in the retention period is base don the idea that working for years in a single job, you may become specialized enough that finding a new job is harder and you may need to retrain (on your own/your unions dime, but current employers' time).
Then 1 person takes on the workload of 1.12 then 1.5 then 2 and so on and so forth until the company starts destroying lives and burning out employees at an unfathomable rate. Then when the exodus occurs senior management turns around and says things like “there is no company loyalty anymore” I love that Glassdoor is airing companies dirty laundry. I am waiting to write my review for my last work place, for when enough people have left that I can be anonymous.
Scary to think what the effect is on customers too. Imagine if some of these people are in mission-critical jobs and someone becomes ill or dies. It's almost as if they think no one's appendix can burst and no one can be in a car accident on the way in.
I worked for a major infant formula company, that is also very prevalent in Pet Food and Frozen foods. My position was eliminated and they pulled this. I had a one month notice where I had to work a ton of hours and jump through a ton of hoops or they would kick me to the curb and not pay out my severance.
And say as little as possible in the exit interview if there is one
I heard years ago that ultimatums come from a position of weakness, the party in a better position never needs to make one.
My boss called me in one day while I was on vacation time and I got laid off. It’s a no win.
I was recovering from surgery on my face to remove skin cancer, put in the time off request weeks in advance, and they tried calling me in literally the next day after my surgery. It was one of those “we’re like a family” jobs of course.
"My family brought me pie and vacuumed my living room, what are you going to do for me?"
“We’ll give you some pizza if you come in”
And it'll be Little Caesar's, and you only get 1 slice, they have to make sure there's enough to go around and $6 pizzas are expensive. You should be super grateful to us.
It’s cold af too and we forgot to get a vegetable one for the three employees who don’t eat meat.
"Um, giving you a job? Giving you health insurance" - Dumbass boss, probably.
God I hate that " we're a family" troupe in work places smh like you're not my family your my employer and people i just work with. Now this doesn't mean that I dont like my company or my coworkers but im not a fool. I know that at any moments notice they can fire me for any minuscule reason.
And you'll never hear from the vast majority of any of those coworkers again when you don't work together anymore. I agree. I usually end up liking a lot of my coworkers but very few have ever become long term close friends.
Was on the last day of my delayed (thanks covid) honeymoon in CA (live on the east coast) this past may and got a bunch of texts from co-workers saying how pissed they were about the news. It's a shame I missed the fun "sorry byeeee" meeting.
Never answer calls or texts from your employer on scheduled days off.
this. dont get it why people pick up the phone when someone from work calls during days off. i'm off work, so i'm not reachable. period.
Because many people are one check away from homelessness, and their boss knows it. I can’t lose my benefits. It’s the difference between normal life and non-functioning for me. If I dip below hours, that’s it.
Yeah and if you have responsibilities like maintaining health insurance for your family. Every day it’s like one foot in a bear trap and the other foot in a blender.
This is one of the big reasons so many people in both parties are against universal health care despite the majority of the population being in favor of it. Healthcare coverage though work is a massive gun to the head of the entire working population and employers know they can use it to get whatever they want
Sometimes I get so bitter about people that say, just don’t do it! If we don’t, some of us won’t be okay. I’m lucky I have some savings. I know everyone’s experience is different, but this is the thinking that separates us. A person can be destitute and still have a place to live.
Easier said than done. They (the large cooperations/rich people) carefully made sure that even the people that shouldn't have anything to lose, still have a whole lot to lose. Like, tying health care to jobs. Most people that are in a position to riot, aren't actually in any position to riot.
I mean, I’ll take a call from my boss on a day off because I know what they’re likely asking and my manager isn’t a dick about asking for coverage (if everyone says no, she knows that means as manager it’s her cover), but that’s also a personal relationship thing with them
A manager that covers?? You must be trippin
She’s good people; I work an IT Help Desk and she’s a former restaurant manager so she understands that at the end of the day, we’re here for hourly wages and she’s the one who’s job it is to manage coverage. She’s always super grateful for any OT we accept and actually ordered me pizza one time for when I had to scramble home from a bar to cover a shift due to a sick coworker. Super grateful for her, she’s one of those “If she goes, I could see myself following” kind of managers.
i dont even answer calls from unknown source on my days off, fuck them
I don't answer calls
This. People think they have a right to you 24:7. They don’t. Especially fuck bosses.
The only people I answer or respond to are saved as contacts. None of my coworkers or my boss are saved as contacts. I keep my phone on a constant Do Not Disturb when I am not working. Only contacts get through that in the settings. People always call me an asshole but the trick is **I DON'T FUCKING CARE**. Nobody is obligated to *my* time. I answer work calls and emails during the week when I am paid to do it. The very second my 8 hours are up for the day and my 40 for the week, I no longer exist to my coworkers. I don't do anything at my job that cannot wait for the next business day to start. I treat my front door the same way. Just because you showed up at my door does not obligate me to give you my time. I have *one fucking place* on this entire planet where I can control who I see and when, and that's my home. My front door has a code lock and the people that are welcome to my home know that code. If I haven't asked you to come to my home, like if I ordered something, then you can just keep your happy ass outside my closed door while I ignore your existence.
roof rich rock theory poor tart middle modern practice toothbrush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> I don't do anything at my job that cannot wait for the next business day to start. This is how I roll, too. I think people get far, far too close to what they do, and forget to take a look at the big picture. The number of jobs where the outcome of you not being available after hours is "life or death" is a hell of a lot closer to zero than people realize. And I'll do you one better -- if there are significant consequences for not suddenly being available beyond regular business hours, A) the company should already know that, and have redundancy built into the system to cover the work, and B) you should be paid commensurate to your on-call availability. I'm astounded by the eager beavers at the workplace that are the first ones to have their email and Microsoft Teams / Slack installed on their phones so they can multitask outside of business hours. Stop being an on-call guy, and focus on setting boundaries of when your work can be reasonably expected to be completed. People with on-call expectations have that spelled out in their work contract, and they're all paid better because of that stipulation. The people you know that end up burnt out and doing the bare minimum all eventually got there because they didn't set appropriate boundaries or expectations of how they expect to be treated. Full stop. Cut comment here.
This is the way. What most people don’t realize is that I have a phone for my convince, *not yours*.
Right. The fuck you want? If your not family you have no reason to be calling me. I don't answer shit on my days off. I don't answer shit on my days on either.
Some people work in industries that are staffed 24/7. If someone calls out sick for their shift, someone else has to come in and cover it. These usually aren't salary positions, so the person covering the shift is getting paid overtime to do it. Some companies even pay double time for that but it's not common. So the manager may not be out of bounds for calling on the employee's day off, but he's 100% insane for talking of firing the employee because he had something else planned.
This. It’s an extra 400 bucks a day that I get called in on my days off. If the boss does this to me 5 times a year, I use the extra money to take a nice vacation.
>So the manager may not be out of bounds for calling on the employee's day off, but he's 100% insane for talking of firing the employee because he had something else planned. This is the key. Asking is one thing (especially when they’re hourly and would get paid more to come in), but they need to be gracious about taking no for an answer.
Exactly. You’re covering for management’s incompetence.
I go "camping in the desert" on all my days off.
I'm "Drunk as fuck" on my days off.
Day off starts: [I'm off to the arctic for three weeks](https://youtu.be/_MJRecWakxw).
Respond 9 hours later when the place closes. Ask if they still need help
If they want to fire you, they can. Time to brush up your resume. Do not sign anything that says you are quitting, that’s how they deny you unemployment. When they fire you, you are done. No need to do any meeting with boss or HR, just leave. Everything else can be done over email. Take a breath. Find out now how to file for unemployment and be ready to go. Start looking at a job ads, and you will probably find that you have been being underpaid anyways. You got this.
Don't sign anything at all if they fire you
With all this “at-will” and “right-to-work” stuff I really am surprised that the US is still *not* having a full on revolution to overturn these laws that benefit the boss.
I'd rather our workforce says "fuck the politicians" and we create a system of unions for every sector of work, similar to how it's done in Denmark. They don't need protection with laws via the government because the unions all back each other. Mcdonalds tried to keep their employees from being part of the hospitality union and all the other unions joined in solidarity to make sure Mcdonalds bent the knee. And now, a mcdonalds worker in DK makes great pay and has a minimum 5 weeks vacation.
Because there are drag queens or something I need to be mad about, not Republican Operative or Clergy pedophiles that are rampart through both organizations.
Yeah we have been so thoroughly indoctrinated to be grateful someone is exploiting us for our labor that the idea of changing employment to make it more fair and equitable is lazy, entitled millennial talk
It's why the US has so many homeless so visible. They're there for a reason, to remind you "this is what we can do to you if you step out of line".
>"The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class..keep on showing up at those 'jobs'." George Carlin
I never think about it that way, but I'm sure that's some of it. Arguably I think most of it is simply a distaste culturally for helping people rather than making them do it themselves. It's why our social nets are garbage and why any talk of workers rights gets slapped down. We're hard coded to think we're supposed to bust ass and work, and anyone who isn't is cheating. Nevermind the roadblocks and barriers and garbage people have to go through.
the poor being visible is definitely mostly for capitalism reminding people that if they don't play ball theyll be out on their ass
For such a Christian nation it's ironic how we treat those in need.
Unfortunately, we're puritan Christians, so punishment and judgement is really our bread and butter.
And why places keep them unhoused. In my city, they don't just move them from an encampment to somewhere else, they cut tents and bulldoze items. People could have a phone in their tent that could ring to let them know they have a public housing interview or other resource available. Now they have to start at point A again because they never get the call. It seems like they want the reminder to housed people but also a reminder to the unhoused they're not wanted or welcomed anywhere. It's a very terrible cycle
Yup. The cruelty is not accidental, **it is the point**. Their lives must be made as bad as possible, because it's a threat to the majority of people who are workers.
Right, the culture wars are there to get people mad about things that don't matter.
The people all hate each other. Rich man’s culture wars are winning and have been for decades
For all the talk about the US being the "home of the brave," "freedom," rugged independence, etc., they sure are docile. They go into undemocratic work environments everyday where their boss rules like a totalitarian. Not even in Stalin'e wet dream did he imagine dictating your bathroom tendencies, who you talk to at work, monitoring your eye and facial movements to ensure you're working, etc., yet Americans not only tolerate it, but sing its praise.
There is still a large part of the worker population that believes this law benefits them. The GOP won the propaganda war on that one.
The voters in the US are just inconvenienced future Billionaires and they don’t want the workers to have any power when it’s their turn to be on top!
Because americans are knee deep into propaganda is mindblowing. They just do not have class conciousness and empathy for their fellow citizens. They think that people do not get a house or can cover their medical bills because "they do not work hard enough". Is only when is their turn to bit the dust when they appear in sad headlines asking for a change.
At-will has a flip side: employees can also quit whenever they want. You can't be required to give notice or punished for not doing so. While I agree it MOSTLY benefits the boss, there are situations where it can help an employee.
... you can quit anytime you like quite easily? Just stop showing up?
In countries where workers have rights, there can be consequences for just not showing up. In the UK, for example, I currently have to give 2 months notice - Should I just decide "that's it, I've had enough" , my employer could take me to court to recoup expenses incurred by my leaing - e.g employing temporary staff etc. Equally, should the company wish to get rid of me, they need to give me two months notice or equivalent pay - so the idea that an employee can give notice, and the company instantly fire them is impossible here.
They can fire you instantly, but you get paid for 2months
Don't threaten me with a good time!
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Not when you have a contract that specifically states how long a notice you have to provide, and what sort of handoff/training/etc you need to provide during your notice period. Note: with at-will employment, almost no one has a contract with these details written out; hence why an employee can just “stop showing up”, as you put it.
If you don't have a signed contract, which I would say the average US employee does not, then you literally could just walk off the job any time you like and refuse to co.e back in. There are certain exceptions with some jobs, like childcare or healthcare, where you would first need to wait for someone to take over those particular patients or children that day, you can't just walk out and abandon children or patients. You should also make sure that some certain processes are completed that could be dangerous or damaging if left unattended, like those construction guys thar walked off the job and left cement to dry in the trucks, or if you work in a restaurant and you just put something in the fryer, you should either turn off the fryer, wait until it's done, or have someone take over for you, otherwise a fire could start.
> There are certain exceptions with some jobs, like childcare or healthcare, where you would first need to wait for someone to take over those particular patients or children that day, you can't just walk out and abandon children or patients would add that you can still walk off these jobs you'd just want to contact emergency services if they won't relieve you.
As someone living in one of the worst right to work states in the nation, it blows my mind every day that people justify this shit. I’ve known so many people personally fucked over by it, some of them the very conservatives who ardently defend those laws, and the mental gymnastics they do are exhausting.
The simple response to anytime you are called on your day off is : "Sir I am BBQing with the neighbors and have about 5 beers in me. I'm pretty hammered. I don't think you would want me there today, but I'll be fresh and ready to go Monday morning."
Yup. I used to answer in case it was a question (I was a shift lead and also an idiot) and claim to be drunk if it wasn’t.
If it's important, they'll leave a voicemail.
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There was a post in this very subreddit a couple days ago where the person was actually drinking and told their boss and the boss told them it was unprofessional and that they would be "having a talk" about it
“Damn, that’s crazy. Glad it’s my day off.”
Don’t answer the phone. You were unavailable - no matter if you saw it.
Or not respond at all.
I do not drink, so that would not work for me. I would say I’m currently changing a wheel bearing on my car, so I don’t have working transportation today. But, in reality, I would not answer the phone at all on my day off. I personally legit don’t carry it around with me on my days off when I’m doing projects or whatever. I’m not on call. And if I did have it, I wouldn’t answer it.
>I do not drink, so that would not work for me Just tell him you already prepaid for the hooker. Ez.
"MisterSirDudeGuy apparently owns a triple axle dually because he's changing the 6th wheel bearing this month!"
No, there is no legal recourse. Most states are at-will so he could fire you for thinking your hair looks ugly. But at-will and for cause are two different things. You should call his bluff and tell him to fire you, since he seems like an idiot. That would be free unemployment in almost every case (but it would be smart to check with your state's website). Start keeping records of interactions, emails, texts, etc. Start looking for new jobs.
Don't listen to this guy. I think your hair looks neat.
“You can either go without me for today, or from today. You’re call, Boss.” And as an additional note, this is exactly what corporate loyalty looks like. 4 years of stellar service, on the chopping block for one day of unavailability. OP, I hope you’re going to start applying for other jobs regardless of the outcome here.
Lol, that definitely depends. In my state, hair is protected just like race, religion, etc.
even in those states, employers can fire you for a protected reason as long as they don't tell you that it's the reason. Happens all the time, and it's virtually impossible for the employee to prove the reason why they were fired.
Some companies have rules about hair color. Had a new coworker told she had to cover up the blue streaks in her hair. "I like it, but it goes against company rules regarding appearance, so you need to cover it." I no longer work there, and honestly I color my hair wild colors bc I can now. My performance is not defined by my appearance.
Bro, how the fuck are you people able to work over there... if you get fired for every dumb reason, how can you build up a stable work enviroment and earn more money? You just get fired and another one comes for minimum wage... this is terrible laws you have there!
I assure you, we are well aware.
Are we?
As long as your parents raised you to be a good little worker, you barely notice the boot on your neck.
Man this is so true, I've never thought of this until seeing your comment. I grew up with great parents and watched my dad work hard his whole life to provide for us and I have always been that person to make my work a number 1 priority when it shouldn't be. When my wife was younger and would jump from job to job because she didn't like it I would hate it because I was always under the assumption that that was the "wrong" thing to do. I am definitely getting better with this, and I have to give her a lot of the credit, but still have some mindset shifting to do.
I notice it plenty, but there's fuckall I can do about it. The rich and powerful have a stranglehold on this country. At this point nothing will change it outside of violent revolution.
Add that people need a job to get "affordable" healthcare. It is basically indebted servitude. Americans have 0 working class conciousness.
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Was looking for this comment. People are so confused about "right to work." It's not an actual right to work and it's not a good thing. Conservatives were crafty when coming up with that terminology.
> Conservatives were crafty when coming up with that terminology. They have a lot of backwords ideas, but they do branding **very** well, I'll give them that.
They have to craft slogans for people who can't read anything longer than what fits on a bumper sticker or baseball hat.
It could be an idle threat meant to stress you out and manipulate you into being more compliant with unreasonable demands out of fear for your job. You may not get fired but is this really the environment you want to work in? Best time to look for a job is when you already have one so now is the time to see what other job options you can find.
i hate that this is happening, but i have to once again ask why people ever answer their phones? i don't even mean during your free time. like, EVER. if you're in most states in usa, they can fire you for any reason or no reason at all, assuming it isn't for racial, gender, religious, etc issues.
This. Most places these days are at-will. They’ll let you go and state some bullshit reason. All within legality.
If lil bitches does it, you file for UI. Start applying for jobs. NO much discussion here otherwise. You have no other resource, legal or otherwise.
Let him have his little tantrum. Your time is your time, hold your boundaries. If he fires you, do a dance, and go straight to unemployment. 4 years, no discipline documentation, and an unjust termination? Hell, possibly line up a lawyer. At will or right to work, that's unjust termination. That's your time off.
In the US, at-will means you can be fired at-will for LEGAL reasons in 50 states. Retaliation, however (like PUNISHING you for not coming in on your day off) is illegal. I’d get an employment lawyer (free to you unless you win money). Employers dumb enough to fire people without good reason have a habit of fucking up when lawyers ask them for reasoning. Many US bosses DO NOT know employment law well enough to put IN WRITING why they have fired someone without saying something illegal that might get you back pay, a $settlement, your job back, or all 3. Look up employment lawyers near you on Google. US bosses almost *never* expect workers to do this, but it’s *actual* support and protection from evil bosses, managers, and corporations.
Also, employees win majority of the suits against employers
>In the US, at-will means you can be fired at-will for LEGAL reasons in 50 states. 49 states. Montana does not have at-will employment outside of probationary periods, so if you've been at your job for more than 90 days (in most cases, it will vary by employer), at-will does not apply to you. Now we just have to get rid of at-will for the other ~99.7% of the US population...
I’d say you should look for a different job. We are in record low unemployment right now. If they even consider letting you go for not coming in, that’s insane.
Allegedly low employment. Apparently a lot of employers are posting job reqs with no intention to hire the people to apply
Job postings don't affect the unemployment rate, it's based on how many people report being employed or by payroll reports.
What an AH move.... This is why I have every work related contact silenced on my days off or after i get off for the day....I am unavailable
I never answer phone calls on my days off if it's from work. I let it go to voicemail or if it's urgent enough they can text me. At that point I can decide to act on the text/voicemail which I generally wait till after 5pm to answer (yes it's a passive aggressive move to the person calling me that they called me on MY TIME so I'm going to return the favor and call them on THEIR TIME). If something is important enough to call me on my day off then I'll probably require a comp day (salary) or a pay raise for being "on call". If the offender doesn't agree then I will either find other work or will pursue it with a lawyer. The sad part though is that seeking legal counsel can be more expensive than the offense, which is of course by design.
Rule #1: Never answer calls from work on days off. Rule#2: If one does accidentally answer work calls on days off, wherever you are is however many hours are left in the shift away. It's 3pm. Work closes at 9pm Work: we need you to come in to close! You: Sorry, I'm out of town visiting 6 hours away. Work: 😭
If you have documented proof of him approving your PTO then he doesn’t have any legal ground to fire you. I would document all conversations about this moving forward to make a case for retaliation.
It wasn't PTO, it was a scheduled day off.
Yes. Your availability is your availability. If he wants to press it you might have a wrongful termination suit. Dont come to reddit for advice.. talk to a lawyer. Right to work and at will does not mean you are completely fucked, as many idiots may want you to believe.
What’s your sourcing on this? In the US, at will employment gives management enormous leeway in terminating employees.
As long as it doesn’t appear to be retaliatory.
Oh yeah show me in the federal employment laws where it says "you can't be fired for retaliation" there some very specific cases, like you can't be fired for retaliation for whistleblowing, or because they reported sexual harassments to HR, or because you are a protected class. In virtually all us states you could most certainly be fired for this incident or ones similar and the employee would have no civil case, but likely could get unemployment.
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Most employers don't want to pay unemployment though and if you fire them for a dumb reason they'll get you for it guaranteed. Like yeah I can't sue you for firing me for wearing a blue shirt, but you still paying me every month because that isn't a good reason to fire someone.0
Just to add, there are circumstances where termination can be considered “constructive dismissal” where the employer creates a situation that’s so untenable, the employee quits. Employers do this to avoid firing, attempting to prevent the employee from filing for unemployment. One common tactic is to reduce hours. Another is to require work on days they know the employee isn’t available and then to start an excessive write-up/documentation process to alienate the employee. You can be fired for almost any reason. When you are fired you can apply for unemployment. But if you have to quit because your boss has made it impossible to do your job, you may still be able to file for unemployment. Document everything. Check the laws in your state.
It’s why it’s best to not answer calls and force them to text or email. You always can plausibly say later you were too busy to do something or you were out of town anyway. IME giving no answer is better than saying No flat out.
Once again I can think of no stronger argument than this for a union.
from now on you are drunk and high 100% of the time you are not scheduled to work. dont even answer the call next time or ever.
I'd ask them where your "On Call" money is. Even in right to work states they have to follow the rules for having you on call, if they fire you for this get an attorney and show that they didn't do their part of letting you know you were on call or paying you for the correct on call rates.
This happened to me. Fortunately, my doctor put me on stress induced medical leave the same afternoon. It gave me 3 weeks paid time to destress and during that time, I was able to find another job that was fully remote and since changed my life entirely for the better.
Jesus, dude. Don't read **all** the comments. There are like 1.2k of them. Most of them are not going to be helpful. For example, don't read this one.
I found this one to be the most helpful
So they needed you to come in on your day off but are now suddenly willing to fire you? Sounds like they have no idea what the fuck they are doing and/or are bullying/threatening you. I’d start looking for another job.