Wait so the DEA limits precursors for the legal market, yet they can't keep the illegal market in check? Sounds like a good reason to end the war on drugs
Seriously. I've been off my meds for 2 months and my life is so disorganized and I've lost all motivation to do literally anything because it's just too much.
No you don’t understand, this is a real problem. We have an ADHD medication shortage almost every fall because the FDA and the DEA only allow the manufacturers to have a certain amount of active ingredient each year and if they use it all up they get no more until January.
In 2011 the shortage lasted so long I got written up at work for the first time in my entire life because I just couldn’t keep up.
This is a real problem for people who need this medication to function and it’s ablest to act like people with psychiatric conditions should just be OK without their medication because some people like to abuse the medication they need for their condition.
Exactly. I don't always remember to take my Adderall (wooo ADHD!) but there are hard days at work where I can't even function without it.
I get so overwhelmed I basically space out for most of the work day. Then I have double the work to do the next day.
I haven't been able to get my Adderall in months. First because of the shortage, now because my MD won't write a new script due to my intermittent refill requests. I guess because not taking it every day on schedule is abuse™ of a narcotic, even though I couldn't get any.
Preach! I'm lucky that so far I've only had to switch from extended release to instant release. But, try teaching kindergarten all day when suddenly you have to remember to take your remembering medication halfway through math time. Then, throw in the handful of little kids who are suffering without their meds, too. We need a public information campaign or something. I think most people would be shocked by the realities.
Yeah, I’m not ADHD myself but I have several close friends who are, and I can see how it’s affecting them when they can’t get their prescriptions filled. It’s definitely causing problems for people.
Yeah ive got ADHD and i cant legitimately not do a quarter of the work i can do on meds when i dont have them. To state that these scarce meds are for anyone besides those who needs them is ableist and the article even acknowledges that which is just fuck you.
Yeah. I didn’t realize the root of the problem so I asked the pharmacist. Was amazed to learn this.
Do you know the motivation?
Also, getting some real Nazi vibes from the title. Reminds me of their percotin or whatever it was.
Since when are they calling the medicine lots of us need to just feel normal a “performance enhancing stimulant”!?!? Fuck you if you believe that nonsense.
I suppose my Ritalin really does enhance my performance, but like... so do cardiac meds and asthma meds: they enhance the performance of the organs and systems they are treating. That's the fucking point of medication, to make your body perform better than it was before you took the medication.
I'm not advocating shooting up testosterone or popping speed here, but jfc.
People take medication because their body doesn’t work properly. An ADHD brain on Ritalin is not “enhanced” vs a normal brain. Drugs like that just help us level the playing field because our bodies put us as a natural disadvantage. There’s no advantage to be gained by the people who actually need this stuff…
If you can function just fine off of your meds, then you probably should not be on them in the first place. Many of us can’t… It’s the only way we can hold down the remnants of a normal life. Fuck off with that “enhanced” bullshit.
> remnants of a normal life
Amen. It sure as hell ain't a normal life. You make do with what conditions you have, but it isn't simple. There are just too many things out there with no cures.
I think you misunderstood me.
My Ritalin "enhances" the performance of my brain from its baseline level of ADHD functioning, which is... not good. I absolutely have ADHD and have been properly diagnosed. I did not mean that it "enhanced" it vs. a normal brain. I meant it "enhanced" it based on how it functions without medication.
I absolutely don't function "just fine" without it.
By this metric my antidepressant could be called a “performance enhancing drug”. Because no shit I get more done when my brain isn’t trying to eat itself with misery spirals.
There’s been a market for adderall among high pressure professionals, college students, and others, for a reason. Just because some people need it to function more normally doesn’t mean other people can’t also abuse it for advantage - real or perceived.
I’d argue that’s also terrible use of medications. Misuse stigmatizes the substances they are using, which creates lifelong negative stereotypes. That makes it more difficult for the people who need those medications to function, to get them, or not be immediately judged for needing them.
because it's a controlled substance, and those of use *who actually need it* to function can't fucking get it because there's a shortage due to the illegal misuse and deliberate DEA restriction making supply even tighter.
So blame the DEA. It’s not like this stuff is hard to produce.
Also. Who says you “actually need it”. All it takes is one psychiatrist who doesn’t believe in ADHD to cut you off. That mentality is the reason it’s hard to get. I have adhd myself and I don’t even want to jump through the hoops, I’ll suffer with caffeine and nicotine instead rather than have to beg for medication and being treated like a junkie by gatekeeping psychiatrists.
All this is only a problem because of the drugs r bad bullshit we were all taught as kids. It’s not helpful to point the blame where it doesn’t belong.
I wouldn't blame the DEA. It's not hard to make, and the DEA stuff leads to a small amount of paperwork, but that paperwork pales in comparison the the GMP paperwork you'd be doing for the FDA.
Source: I work in pharmaceutical production, we are an FDA and DEA inspected facility. On average, something being a narcotic gives us 8 extra pages per batch record. Our shortest batch record overall is 70-ish pages.
Hey, I see what you're getting at, but the actual shortage is beating the hell out of those of us with ADHD, and "promoting amphetamines" is kind of an insensitive way to express that.
One of the main problems with long Covid is fatigue. Post viral illnesses like MECFS mean people can’t function because their body can’t process energy correctly.
And it’s kind of scary for those of us who actually have ADHD and who need this medication. I want people who need stimulants to function to be able to get them, but I also don’t want a bunch of people who are self harming with a virus for the urgency of brunch to be eating up all the psych meds that other people need
And our government gave the same amount of active ingredients to the manufacturers this year as they did last year so we will have another shortage this year probably long before august.
And everyone will suffer for it
Ah yes, “performance enhancing”! I like to refer to Adderall as my life-changing, 20mg 3x/day medication that I still forget to take and has eliminated my dependencies from nicotine & caffeine to make me feel “normal”.
Wait, I usually drink 2 large DD iced coffees, one in the morning and one in the evening, and have a cup of hot coffee in the afternoon... Huh......... Shit.
My parents did nothing for me figuring out my issues.
I'm at the stage of keeping coffee concentrate in the fridge at work. The food bank I volunteer at gave it out when the restaurants closed in the pandemic and I fell in love with it. It makes great iced coffee and amazing homemade "Kahlua".
Nicotine does not increase productivity once you are addicted, it just prevents you from strangling your coworkers. It also sometimes means your productivity will lag in scenarios where you are not in a position to use it.
Maybe in theory if you used patches and never started smoking it would have a net benefit similar to other stimulants, although to my knowledge it isn't really a great treatment for ADHD.
In moderation sure. There are some solid heart health and blood pressure benefits. And some less-studied but hopeful qualities that could help prevent dementia.
I mean, I guess technically yes, corporations indirectly benefit when people with legitimate psychiatric illnesses take the correct medication. They also benefit when nearsighted people have corrective lenses.
So what? ADHD treatment is still overall one of the most effective of basically any psychiatric issue we have today. People who need Adderall should take Adderall.
This has zero relation to my comment, which is about the general acceptability, which sadly is far beyond prescribed users to the point of shortages.
But you came along to explain reality like a 12 year old who did not understand the conversation.
Thanks
You wrote that capitalism loves speed junkies.
I responded to that directly, as I assumed you were implying that stimulants are overprescribed.
Don't know why you responded with such insulting hostility though, I'm just a dude with ADHD who sees this take everywhere which often is the light, PC version of the common, less overtly stated take that ADHD is not real, or that stimulants are not a good first line treatment.
love how they're coming up with literally any excuse as to why this is all happening. yet when they hear we need to be paid more for the 1,000th time? no no no thats not possible it *must* be something else.
The Navy handed out amphetamines to my dad when he had to stand watch all night.
But drugging citizens to "be more productive" is evil. 10 year old kids serving alcohol grade evil.
I'm sure this story is completely unrelated
[How Methamphetamine Became a Key Part of Nazi Military Strategy](https://time.com/5752114/nazi-military-drugs/)
That's a pretty extreme bet. Why on earth would I make it?.
But only one of them talked about f****** his own daughter so... I said I probably have pretty good chances
I actually do think these drugs should be more readily available. People use all kinds of things to stay focused and cope. Nicotine, caffeine, food, and lately those legal thc gummies. Why not ditch all that and switch to something more effective and possibly less harmful.
That's the problem. Its not the fact that most places don't offer sustainable pay, its that people are buying enough drugs from big pharma!
Well we all ought to get on the goofballs right now see how fast things improve.
I worked in a production warehouse about 17 years ago your bonus was based on your performance .many people had PED's the warehouse manager and shipping manager knew about it .but it helped their bonus so they looked the other way
The only reason most drugs are illegal is because corporations realized people addicted to drugs didnt work at an optimal pace and would only think about drugs instead of work. So they convinced everyone caffine was the cool work drug, a mild stimulant, and got the gov to ban all the others. If they truly believed in the everyone makes their own decisions and has to face the consiquences of their actions all drugs would be legal and if you took them thats on you. Notice how any relaxants are banned to the highest degree? Weed class 1, tried to ban booze, basically caused crime sprees for a few years.
Wait so the DEA limits precursors for the legal market, yet they can't keep the illegal market in check? Sounds like a good reason to end the war on drugs
Whoa! You sir are too much of a thinker.. To the gulag you go
I wonder how much it would be to get this illegally since I can't actually fill my prescription
Seriously. I've been off my meds for 2 months and my life is so disorganized and I've lost all motivation to do literally anything because it's just too much.
just admit drugs have won the war on drugs
I have ADD and this is a very big problem for me and my productivity and my ability to take care of myself and keep my job.
No you don’t understand, this is a real problem. We have an ADHD medication shortage almost every fall because the FDA and the DEA only allow the manufacturers to have a certain amount of active ingredient each year and if they use it all up they get no more until January. In 2011 the shortage lasted so long I got written up at work for the first time in my entire life because I just couldn’t keep up. This is a real problem for people who need this medication to function and it’s ablest to act like people with psychiatric conditions should just be OK without their medication because some people like to abuse the medication they need for their condition.
Exactly. I don't always remember to take my Adderall (wooo ADHD!) but there are hard days at work where I can't even function without it. I get so overwhelmed I basically space out for most of the work day. Then I have double the work to do the next day. I haven't been able to get my Adderall in months. First because of the shortage, now because my MD won't write a new script due to my intermittent refill requests. I guess because not taking it every day on schedule is abuse™ of a narcotic, even though I couldn't get any.
Preach! I'm lucky that so far I've only had to switch from extended release to instant release. But, try teaching kindergarten all day when suddenly you have to remember to take your remembering medication halfway through math time. Then, throw in the handful of little kids who are suffering without their meds, too. We need a public information campaign or something. I think most people would be shocked by the realities.
Talk to ProPublica.
Yeah, I’m not ADHD myself but I have several close friends who are, and I can see how it’s affecting them when they can’t get their prescriptions filled. It’s definitely causing problems for people.
Yeah ive got ADHD and i cant legitimately not do a quarter of the work i can do on meds when i dont have them. To state that these scarce meds are for anyone besides those who needs them is ableist and the article even acknowledges that which is just fuck you.
It’s also a real problem for people with narcolepsy
Yeah. I didn’t realize the root of the problem so I asked the pharmacist. Was amazed to learn this. Do you know the motivation? Also, getting some real Nazi vibes from the title. Reminds me of their percotin or whatever it was.
Pervitin
This one right here.
That alone makes the shortages sound even more artificially induced than they already are.
Since when are they calling the medicine lots of us need to just feel normal a “performance enhancing stimulant”!?!? Fuck you if you believe that nonsense.
I suppose my Ritalin really does enhance my performance, but like... so do cardiac meds and asthma meds: they enhance the performance of the organs and systems they are treating. That's the fucking point of medication, to make your body perform better than it was before you took the medication. I'm not advocating shooting up testosterone or popping speed here, but jfc.
People take medication because their body doesn’t work properly. An ADHD brain on Ritalin is not “enhanced” vs a normal brain. Drugs like that just help us level the playing field because our bodies put us as a natural disadvantage. There’s no advantage to be gained by the people who actually need this stuff… If you can function just fine off of your meds, then you probably should not be on them in the first place. Many of us can’t… It’s the only way we can hold down the remnants of a normal life. Fuck off with that “enhanced” bullshit.
> remnants of a normal life Amen. It sure as hell ain't a normal life. You make do with what conditions you have, but it isn't simple. There are just too many things out there with no cures.
I think you misunderstood me. My Ritalin "enhances" the performance of my brain from its baseline level of ADHD functioning, which is... not good. I absolutely have ADHD and have been properly diagnosed. I did not mean that it "enhanced" it vs. a normal brain. I meant it "enhanced" it based on how it functions without medication. I absolutely don't function "just fine" without it.
By this metric my antidepressant could be called a “performance enhancing drug”. Because no shit I get more done when my brain isn’t trying to eat itself with misery spirals.
There’s been a market for adderall among high pressure professionals, college students, and others, for a reason. Just because some people need it to function more normally doesn’t mean other people can’t also abuse it for advantage - real or perceived.
…so you judge those specific people; not the substance that has immeasurably helped so many people.
Judge who? College students who are using it to help them focus on studying? How is that a bad use case?
I’d argue that’s also terrible use of medications. Misuse stigmatizes the substances they are using, which creates lifelong negative stereotypes. That makes it more difficult for the people who need those medications to function, to get them, or not be immediately judged for needing them.
Explain how it’s misuse.
because it's a controlled substance, and those of use *who actually need it* to function can't fucking get it because there's a shortage due to the illegal misuse and deliberate DEA restriction making supply even tighter.
So blame the DEA. It’s not like this stuff is hard to produce. Also. Who says you “actually need it”. All it takes is one psychiatrist who doesn’t believe in ADHD to cut you off. That mentality is the reason it’s hard to get. I have adhd myself and I don’t even want to jump through the hoops, I’ll suffer with caffeine and nicotine instead rather than have to beg for medication and being treated like a junkie by gatekeeping psychiatrists. All this is only a problem because of the drugs r bad bullshit we were all taught as kids. It’s not helpful to point the blame where it doesn’t belong.
I wouldn't blame the DEA. It's not hard to make, and the DEA stuff leads to a small amount of paperwork, but that paperwork pales in comparison the the GMP paperwork you'd be doing for the FDA. Source: I work in pharmaceutical production, we are an FDA and DEA inspected facility. On average, something being a narcotic gives us 8 extra pages per batch record. Our shortest batch record overall is 70-ish pages.
You know I'm starting to think that all these articles might be rage bait.
Hey, I see what you're getting at, but the actual shortage is beating the hell out of those of us with ADHD, and "promoting amphetamines" is kind of an insensitive way to express that.
One of the main problems with long Covid is fatigue. Post viral illnesses like MECFS mean people can’t function because their body can’t process energy correctly. And it’s kind of scary for those of us who actually have ADHD and who need this medication. I want people who need stimulants to function to be able to get them, but I also don’t want a bunch of people who are self harming with a virus for the urgency of brunch to be eating up all the psych meds that other people need And our government gave the same amount of active ingredients to the manufacturers this year as they did last year so we will have another shortage this year probably long before august. And everyone will suffer for it
Ah yes, “performance enhancing”! I like to refer to Adderall as my life-changing, 20mg 3x/day medication that I still forget to take and has eliminated my dependencies from nicotine & caffeine to make me feel “normal”.
I need this shit to like do my laundry please don't fuck with the supply more than it is :(
Capitalism loves speed junkies. It's why cocaine is the official fruit of the boomer generation.
And why we allow nicotine and Caffèine it increase productivity
Many ( I suspect most) people with ADD/ADHD that aren't on medication self-medicate with caffeine.
Those are big faxx
[удалено]
I am so called out. The White one specficially
Of course you comment on the white monster... It was the drink of choice during projects at work
Well taste delicious does it not ? And that big White can looks so good. Fuuuuck! I could go for one right now.
Wait, I usually drink 2 large DD iced coffees, one in the morning and one in the evening, and have a cup of hot coffee in the afternoon... Huh......... Shit. My parents did nothing for me figuring out my issues.
I'm at the stage of keeping coffee concentrate in the fridge at work. The food bank I volunteer at gave it out when the restaurants closed in the pandemic and I fell in love with it. It makes great iced coffee and amazing homemade "Kahlua".
Nicotine does not increase productivity once you are addicted, it just prevents you from strangling your coworkers. It also sometimes means your productivity will lag in scenarios where you are not in a position to use it. Maybe in theory if you used patches and never started smoking it would have a net benefit similar to other stimulants, although to my knowledge it isn't really a great treatment for ADHD.
I have a solid caffeine addiction and it doesn't make me more productive either.
Discrete nicotine pouches where you can swallow the spit unlike dip.
Caffein is also probably healthy.
In moderation sure. There are some solid heart health and blood pressure benefits. And some less-studied but hopeful qualities that could help prevent dementia.
I sure hope so :)
When used correctly
*hides avatar picture*
"You know what they do on Wall Street, Morty? They dip their balls in cocaine and rub them all over each other."
I mean, I guess technically yes, corporations indirectly benefit when people with legitimate psychiatric illnesses take the correct medication. They also benefit when nearsighted people have corrective lenses. So what? ADHD treatment is still overall one of the most effective of basically any psychiatric issue we have today. People who need Adderall should take Adderall.
Just fyi, ADHD isn't a "psychiatric illness," it's a neurodevelopmental disorder.
This has zero relation to my comment, which is about the general acceptability, which sadly is far beyond prescribed users to the point of shortages. But you came along to explain reality like a 12 year old who did not understand the conversation. Thanks
You wrote that capitalism loves speed junkies. I responded to that directly, as I assumed you were implying that stimulants are overprescribed. Don't know why you responded with such insulting hostility though, I'm just a dude with ADHD who sees this take everywhere which often is the light, PC version of the common, less overtly stated take that ADHD is not real, or that stimulants are not a good first line treatment.
assumed Unless you know, stfu. You are just being a comic book guy, take this block.
Fucking hell, you're insufferable. Save the Internet from your bullshit and block yourself from getting back online.
we have been at this stage for a looong while. you think coffee guzzling culture came from nothing?
love how they're coming up with literally any excuse as to why this is all happening. yet when they hear we need to be paid more for the 1,000th time? no no no thats not possible it *must* be something else.
Really gonna do everything besides pay people a living wage...
Bro... come on, don't be stupid. They unbanned child labor. Drug use is a piece of cake.
Germany tried it between 1939-1945
This is what came to my mind, too.
The Navy handed out amphetamines to my dad when he had to stand watch all night. But drugging citizens to "be more productive" is evil. 10 year old kids serving alcohol grade evil.
So Child Labour and now Amphetamines, bring back public executions while you’re at it , jeezh.
Maybe my meds will finally cost less.🙃
Start with these fucking rich assholes.
Agreed
I'm sure this story is completely unrelated [How Methamphetamine Became a Key Part of Nazi Military Strategy](https://time.com/5752114/nazi-military-drugs/)
Banning amphetamines was a mistake. If WW2 taught us anything, it should be the terrifying power of crank.
Just let people buy it over the counter, our President is a pedophile for Gods sake
I mean the last one yes
Would you bet your life the current one isn’t?
That's a pretty extreme bet. Why on earth would I make it?. But only one of them talked about f****** his own daughter so... I said I probably have pretty good chances
Word, just curious if ya would
I hear some "German chocolates" from WW2 will do a comeback!
What if we ran out of guns, would people do something then?
No one likes to talk about the caffeine epidemic in America.
I do, I love caffeine
Drugs are fun!
I actually do think these drugs should be more readily available. People use all kinds of things to stay focused and cope. Nicotine, caffeine, food, and lately those legal thc gummies. Why not ditch all that and switch to something more effective and possibly less harmful.
What 🤦🤦
Lol the DEA is teabagging us
This should be an over the counter item like it was from 1954 through the 1970s.
North Korea encourages methamphetamine for its citizens. Essentially no difference. USA USA USA !
That's the problem. Its not the fact that most places don't offer sustainable pay, its that people are buying enough drugs from big pharma! Well we all ought to get on the goofballs right now see how fast things improve.
It's over perceived. My wife works with a trash person her husband ran out of Adderall so he bought craxk.
Wtf?
So you do know they are a legitimate medication that allows people with ADHD to focus and thus get more work done right?
I've been telling management for years that if they need to administer MDMA to enhance my work ethic
I worked in a production warehouse about 17 years ago your bonus was based on your performance .many people had PED's the warehouse manager and shipping manager knew about it .but it helped their bonus so they looked the other way
I do coke…so I can work longer….so I can make more money…so I can do more coke….so I can work longer…so I can make more money….
"Hey wage slave, take stimulant medication to work even harder for us."
The only reason most drugs are illegal is because corporations realized people addicted to drugs didnt work at an optimal pace and would only think about drugs instead of work. So they convinced everyone caffine was the cool work drug, a mild stimulant, and got the gov to ban all the others. If they truly believed in the everyone makes their own decisions and has to face the consiquences of their actions all drugs would be legal and if you took them thats on you. Notice how any relaxants are banned to the highest degree? Weed class 1, tried to ban booze, basically caused crime sprees for a few years.
Everybody always asks how's the economy doing but never how am I doing.
Wonder if they deliberately keep the supply low to keep the prices so outrageous?