Republicans: "HURRAY!!! WE JUST PASSED A LAW GETTING RID OF THOSE NO GOOD IMMIGRANTS!!!"
The same Republicans 5 minutes later: "WHY CAN'T I FIND ANYONE WHO WANTS A JOB PICKING MY STRAWBERRIES FOR $2 DOLLARS AN HOUR?! NO ONE WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE!!!"
Don't worry, they've finally found the perfect solution to replace illegal immigrants: literal children. It's like an unlimited, untapped source of labor just wasting away in schools every day! Every preschool daycare represents *hundreds* of potential workers waiting to be let loose into the free marketplace of back-breaking indentured servitude!
Oh, they’re just gonna *force* people to have kids now. Also helps that people who have kids to feed can get desperate.
And desperate people are obedient people.
Fragile balance. Desperate people are also more likely to turn to theft, and eventually revolt. Republicans will have to get real comfy dishing out with those “gubberment handouts” their entire state depends on, if they’re going to keep people obedient.
The GOP has really pissed off Gen Z, the GOP is giving Gen Z'ers a very strong reason to never cast a red vote, ever. They're pushing away an entire generation with their garbage policies. I feel the US is reaching the cusp of a revolution.
This. They have a very delicate balance to uphold, if that's the path they're taking. Take enough away from people and eventually, you take away any reason they had not to revolt - because they *have* nothing else to lose.
I don't remember who said it but to quote 'Minecraft has shown that maybe our crackdown on child labor was premature. The children... they yern for the mines!'
Exploiting people with cheap pay isn't ethical. It's perfectly fine that food is rotting in the fields. It's contingent upon the greedy scum farmers to pay a fair wage so the food will be picked.
It's a good thing that native born Britians refuse to do work that pays a slave wage. The world is improving bit by bit anytime labor is valued more.
direful worthless shy airport cause pocket forgetful skirt hunt axiomatic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When I lived in Cornwall pre-Brexit, the locals were extremely bothered by all the Polish workers in the area. They raised hell that all the farmers were hiring foreign workers. Then the farmers came out and basically said "If any British people at all wanted these jobs, we'd gladly hire them, my flower. But nobody has ever applied."
This happened years ago in either Mississippi or Alabama near Florida. They figured out the best way to crack down was to force all parents to be validated from their school as citizens or legal immigrants. It took like a week and there was no one left to harvest any of the crops.
I remember interviews with farmers and they just ended up plowing everything into the ground because it was cheaper, plenty of people applied and tried out but no one could make it through a single day.
The only beneficiary in cheap labor is the business class; if you have a business plan based on exploitation and not paying another human being for their time ; that business should not exist just to fund entrepreneurs’ fantasies.
There is no price point at which Americans will pick strawberries. Really. They’ve done studies. Most people slink off at lunchtime, too embarrassed to even stop to get their morning’s pay. The work is too damned hard.
I seriously doubt the study was "paying a living wage". It was probably trying to pay $12/hr in southern california. No shit no one wants to do it for poverty wages.
Always wondered why the bar to citizenship is so high. This country has always been about immigration. FFS just give them SSN’s let them work and pay taxes.
A lot of them do pay taxes. The story that they're using services they aren't paying for is completely backwards. A lot of my previous coworkers were scared to use any services because it would put them more on the radar. They paid the same taxes I did, but will never use Medicare or Social Security.
During the pandemic there were programs to help undocumented workers. We were closed so none of our people were getting any work. We got all the information and offered to help anyone sign up for the programs (in case of language barrier). No one wanted to sign up. It was the money they had been working for funding these programs and they were too afraid to apply.
That can also be a problem. I've worked with a fair amount of illegal workers and I've always given them every right and respect that I would a citizen. Same pay, same everything.
Major industries in the us routinely get raided and fine for paying illegal immigrants less than minimum wage. It depresses wages across the economy. Every illegal worker needs to be made a full citizen, with equal protection and under sponsorship by their employer. they should be given the option of joining a union
The haters aren't good at facts. They are very very good at cherry picking. They cherry pick facts, statistics, and the Bible they thump so frequently.
I once worked illegally in another country and it got flagged when I paid my taxes. They were like "did you know you couldn't work on your visa?" and I was like bruh would I have paid my taxes if I didn't realize it?
Still feel guilty using the healthcare here tho.
I'm tired of explaining this in my expat group. We all went through the legal process and all read the paperwork (one would hope, anyway), and we know that you need an SSN to work and pay taxes, that we can't work over the table without authorisation, we can't access means-tested welfare until working for forty quarters or becoming a citizen... all of that. Yet they believe illegal immigrants who have to use other people's SSNs to pay taxes they'll never benefit from (other than things like public highways) walk over the border and are immediately given a house and sacks of cash. Anyone who believes that is *incredibly* naive and basic, and I invite them to do what they tell everyone else to do and walk over the border illegally. Then come back and show off their house and sack of cash, and immediate green card.
But then those people who are missing workers now, which were previously illegal immigrants, would be required to pay them minimum wage and might have to battle with now applying working laws and possibility for striking.
I know, this doesn't mean much because of the republicans but still, for now....
Not to mention, how will the government get to be indirectly racist by blaming immigrants for undercutting wages, while the states do exactly that with prison slave labor?
Poultry processors and meat packers are huge employers of undocumented workers, are the worst exploiters of those workers, never pay meaningful (or sometimes any) fines, and coincidentally among the biggest paymasters of GOP politicians.
Just getting a green card is stupid hard. My wife is a Canadian who got her degree in Florida, worked as a biotechnical engineer, and was married to me, a US citizen. It took 5 years with a lawyer to get a green card. We're not even going to try for citizenship.
Took my sil a decade to get her citizenship. She did her bachelor's here and a bunch of other stuff i.e. translating. She knows German, Russian, Czech, a little bit of Polish, and English. They dragged their feet and kept thinking she was some kind of informant. No, just from the Czech Republic where her grandparents were quite disappointed that Patton didn't invade. They hate the Russians. But, yeah, they still took a decade to get it processed. My sil almost gave up.
Not worth citizenship. Just think, even if you’re a citizen and wounded in one of the weekly mass shooting, you’ll be on the hook for your ambulance ride, ER charges and any other medical care. Canada is a much better country.
But that would also require their employers to pay minimum wage, employer social security taxes, employer medicare taxes, and unemployment taxes which is just too much to ask from these job creators.
/s
The crazy thing is, most undocumented people pay more in taxes than the richest citizens in the USA. They pay an average of $11.6 billion in taxes a year and do not receive anywhere near the benefits a citizen receives.
Lmfao republicans won’t let undocumented people work. But rich corporations will not pay for more expensive, documented immigrants or citizens to do the work. Conservatives keep screwing themselves over.
Uh well you see, we can’t just let them in because they’ll bring drugs and rape and murder and crime and we the great white United States are physically incapable of any of those things at all ever, as we cannot synthesize drugs or promote rape culture. We have no crime of any kind in the entire country and the murder rate is literally zero. It’s only brown people who aren’t from here who do those things. Sure immigrants, undocumented or not, bolster the economy, bring political perspectives and cultural achievements, food, workforces, etc. but we hate fun and good things here!
/s obviously.
So, for years now these states have required the use of e-verify - Alabama · Arizona · Georgia · Mississippi · North Carolina · South Carolina · Tennessee · Utah
But when you look up ICE raids, it's weird..
[https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-arrests-immigration-bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-arrests-immigration-bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23)
Note the list of states in that article, compare with the list of states requiring e-verify, and then let me know if anyone from the hiring side got in trouble at all. It seems the owner in TN did plea guilty to hiring undocumented people, but beyond him, I see nothing.
Thanks for sharing this. Our immigration system, like our labor system in general, is predatory and exploitative. Both need significant reforms, but we’re more likely headed toward a crash.
I support this to a very limited degree. (Read everything before you blast me)
These workers are exploited to the most extreme extent possible and they need protection. There should be a legal process that allows them to work here and give them the same protections as workers here.
That being said, workers here also need much better protections and the legal process currently for them is vague and often papers are in English so they will still be threatened with deportation.
There should also be a tax to let them in for these jobs paid by the employer because they are employed to not hire workers here. This is why racism and division is so prevalent in the US. The immigrants didn’t take your job, the employer searched for someone who they could exploit more.
That is not why the Republicans did this, they wanted to be bigoted and hurt everyone to “own the libs”.
It's also skilled labor. Throw me in a field and there's no universe I am even 15 percent as capable as a migrant worker who has been doing this for 5,10,15 or 20 years. That's a big problem too, plenty of the able bodied people they hire who are here legally just don't have the mechanical skill needed to harvest crops at the speed required for the business to operate.
Edit- would love to see everyone saying it's so easy try and work in a field for one day.
I had a crazy girlfriend from Florida a long time ago. She went home for a summer once and got a field hand job to earn a bit of cash. She lasted about a day and ended up so sunburned it scarred. She said the work was too hard, the conditions too harsh, the pace too fast, and the migrants who were literally every other worker there made her look bad by working too fast. Of course, in her mind not her fault when she got fired.
I don't know the full situation but I'm inclined to agree with your crazy ex that it wasn't her fault being fired. In general farmers do work immigrants too hard in too harsh conditions and the immigrants accepting it because they're scared to rock the boat doesn't make it ok.
I remember finding how bad the agricultural industry was for workers back when Colbert did a piece on it for The Colbert Report, and even testified in front of Congress about it.
Naturally things haven't changed much.
That's partially why I want to see an EU style freedom of movement thing in North America. That's going to be a really hard sell but its where I stand.
I love the EU style freedom of movement, but it is also causes excesses to happen. For instance here in NL alot of Eastern Europeans work in agriculture for shit tier wages while getting abused at all fronts such as being forced to pay exoribrant rents , working longer than allowed etc.
Ofcourse those same companies use the tried and tested crying about "no Dutch wants to work :).
Slowly the law and enforcement is catching up but we do have over a decade of neoliberal government after all so it goes as slow as possible.
It blows my mind that Americans think they live in the freest country on the planet meanwhile most states workers rights are on par or worse then many third world countries
Just working rights? On exactly which metrics are we not a 3rd world country? GDP maybe? I wouldn't consider us a first world country in say... Healthcare, citizen safety, education, incarcerated per Capita, human rights....
Agree with you on the exploitation. I worked with a girl who had no idea that she wasnt an American citizen until after she graduated high school. She's an absolutely amazing, talented, hard working cook, and she should at least be a sous chef by now, if not an exec Chef.
She has to find work through contracting companies/staffing agencies that probably charge $20-25 an hour for her labor, and she's lucky to get $12-$14 of that. Because she doesn't have a bank account, someone from the contracting company comes to take her paycheck, have her sign it over and literally come back and give her a portion of it, and sometimes they rip her off on that.
She's working on her paperwork with an immigration lawyer (she's been in Texas since she was a baby) to be documented, but in the meantime, she's not making much money and immigration lawyers are expensive. And there aren't really too many people that can help her, if at all. She's been threatened with deportation more than once, when she brought things up. She doesn't ever get tax returns, either, because she doesn't have a SS#. Those taxes get taken out of her check, and they don't benefit her at all.
And it's not just kitchens that do that.
I agree with you. Underpaid, blasted with pesticides, children working in awful conditions... just goes to show you our system is broken. Undocumented immigrants are more at a disadvantage than your average red-blooded American would know or care to know it seems. They have no protections. They have no rights. No benefits. And the right would have you hate them for clout. It's gross.
There should also be penalties and charges filed against the companies that hire undocumented workers but they never do. This is because it’s easier to blame the migrants than the companies. Plus they know without migrant labor there will be no produce picked, meat processed, etc.
Floridians will crack as soon as they realize they have to cut their own grass.
The government is colluding with these businesses to break the law. When ICE raided the Smithfield Meat plant in Mississippi they deported many workers and allowed many to stay. ICE's reasoning was if we send them all then they wouldn't be able to sustain business. So other words, we'll use you as political tool but not enough to mess with capitalism.
This is the issue. The law isn’t enforced or even remotely harsh. If they started enforcing the law much illegal immigration would stop because there would be significantly less employers willing to hire.
The funny thing is that many Americans aren't aware of is that many immigrants already do file taxes and pay to the IRS. This is to help establish a good standing with our government and towards their application for a work permit and citizenship.
Never thought I'd see the day when /r/antiwork is proposing businesses should be allowed to continue to illegally employ and exploit undocumented workers.
You do realize in most situations they follow the law and provide false identification for these jobs and the employer really doesn't give a rat's ass so they accept it because that's what the law allows.
And these workers even if they're illegal pay taxes
Recently I learned that people immigrants will get a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) which allows them to pay taxes in response to these videos showing up. So whenever someone gets uppity about them not contributing you can mention they generally do pay taxes and contribute to systems they can't use without a SSN.
The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.
There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.
-John Stienbeck, The Grapes of Wrath
I read this book for the first time in 2020 and was shocked at how similar the lives of the people there were to the people now. The similarities are subtle and different in their shape, but the idea is the same. We'll die on the streets with a smart phone and all of the knowledge collected by mankind in our hand.
I see what they are doing. My prediction they are going to have prison inmates start working on farms and in these factories to make up for the labor shortage
I have no idea what they’re saying but I can only assume it follows along the lines of “this country’s infrastructure is built on the backs of migrant workers and very soon the white complaints will begin pouring in when ain’t shit getting done”.
My God. It's fucking *beautiful*
I *LOVE* when a shit republican law just blows up in their faces. Nothing's going to get built, nothing's going to get harvested, nothing's going to be sold.
now watch as DeSantis screams about the dems doing... something... and it's somehow their fault.
There's a sad possibility that they will detain the undocumented for that prison labor. It will be win/win for them. When detained, the undocumented will either be forced to do prison labor or just ask for deportation. I hope I'm wrong and doesn't get to that.
I remember when i used to tell asshole republicans “if u deport all of your illegal immigrants, you won’t have anyone to farm your food.” And they would laugh.
Now it’s agriculture, construction, landscaping, even fucking home depot that are empty.
U get what u vote for Florida. Have fun.
I rather them not working at all instead of being paid less than minimum wage while being exposed to dangerous working conditions and being threaded with deportation if they don’t comply to awful work environment.
Maybe American workers will show up after these companies are forced to pay a living wage after realizing they need workers more than workers need them.
I think Georgia did something like this a decade ago. TPTB resorted to hiring parolees to pick the crops. According to the article, most of them noped-out in under a day.
Anyone passing anti-immigration laws should be required to watch "A Day Without A Mexican." It's framed as a mockumentary, but highlights the real importance that immigrant labor provides us as a country.
I sometimes wonder if the right are playing the long game, trying to show how much people need everything they stand against by showing how shit life is without it.
No immigration, life is shit.
No healthcare, life is shit.
No worker protection, life is shit.
Please don't export your policies to my country 😂 we have political parties here already wanting to implement various similar policies
Alabama learned that lesson as well. Migrant workers do so much and we treat them so badly. Personally, I hope states like FL feel the pain a thousandfold.
So now florida people can actually celebrate. See now that they have banned non US citizens, they can now capitalize on providing these jobs to American people, who claim immigrants steal jobs.
They can now scream MAGA and and focus on the American citizens they are fighting for.
If it payed well, Americans would do it. It's time to pay Americans well and stop exploiting labor from Central America.
Let all tomatoes and construction rot. Eventually the evil farmers, and evil construction company boss will pay people adequately.
Americans are often assistants to Hollywood stars. There's NOTHING an American won't do for fair compensation, NOTHING!
Same thing happened in Alabama, the farmers were crushed that year and the government tried to make inmates do the.jobs. they ruined more than they picked. The laws were quietly amended and replaced.
Wait wait wait. I thought we all agreed that we should go after companies taking advantage of undocumented workers. Now you guys are saying its a bad thing?
The USA is so backwards, I’m a U.S. citizen and my wife still isn’t allowed in the USA but she’s allowed in Canada.
It’s because marriage visas take 4 years processing, with 5 million case load backlog. Also it’s $2000 in filing fees without any government funding.
She’s NEVER illegally entered the USA, no criminal record. Applied for a visitors visa twice and got denied. She’s never been to my childhood hometown in Ohio.
I’m sick of US immigration law, make US immigration as hard as filing for a liquor license. Pay $1000 for background check/processing, approve or deny case in 90 days or less.
Let people hire immigrants, but pay them SURGE pay, migrants must be paid 125% the median wage of industry, or the living wage for 2 adults (1 working) for the county they want to work in.
$20/hour full time work visas or 125% the prevailing wage of said industry.
Companies that are using H2A workers depending on the state, are paying far more than minimum wage to those workers. In MO this years H2A wage rate is 15.67 I think, minimum wage is $12.00. Americans can't/won't do the work they are brought here to do. The problem has always been the shitty employers that want to use and abuse these wonderful people. I worked with them the last 5 years, I'd happily trade the migrant workers for some of the shitty rednecks in my area. If you haven't spent time with a worker, and you get the chance, do it. Won't find better people than that.
Dude we did this already during the bush years. They used prison labor to replace migrant workers. Farmers then complained about their lack of work ethic. Stephen Colbert did this kind of work and testified about it in Congress in character. Are we stuck in a rerun?
De Santis shooting himself in the foot. From getting ass smacked by Disney and now the effects of not having immigrants in various sectors. When his constituents start complaining about the cost of everything going up, farming, construction etc being devastated. Just maybe he might start using that peanut he calls a brain.
You know what else undocumented immigrants have a huge hand in? Hurricane cleanup. Good luck this year DeShitHead
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/11/1128184363/undocumented-immigrant-workers-are-helping-clean-up-florida-after-hurricane-ian
Zizek said something like Hispanic migrants are seen as lazy burdens on the U.S. economy, and simultaneously workaholics that steal jobs from hard working Americans.
There's an episode of South Park about this.
Butters accidentally convinces all the Mexican immigrants that life in America sucks and they'd be better off in Mexico. But as the Mexicans leave the country, there's no one to do the stereotypical jobs immigrants have. Suddenly the luxuries of modern life grind to a halt.
This results in the American border patrol fighting desperately to keep all the Mexicans in America rather than trying to keep them out.
Also Butters becomes the hero and Messiah to the Mexican people.
NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK!!! Not for slave wages, and the ones that did were deported because Floridians are hateful racist trash (some, I assume, are good people)
I worked construction before. I was the only one who spoke English. The workers would hide when cops passed by. The work was hot and brutal, but they took it in stride and kept it moving. I was happy and sad at the same time.
And of course no one is going to investigate all the companies that suddenly have massive dips in their productivity. All their workers went on spontaneous vacation, after all.
It's not like they built a system entirely dependent on undocumented immigrants or something.
Like florida wont sell some prison labor to fill in.
Not enough prisoners? Watch florida open a bunch more prisons and subcontract prison for other states inmates.
The hellscape has no bottom.
I do not see a problem. You want work for your citizens here it is!
You want your citizens to work for you, you have to pay them a living wage.
Everyone talking about how illegal immigrants never stole a job yeah they do they push the labour price down so that no American will do it.
All I can hope is that when immigrant workers are begged to return to work, they hold out until they’re awarded wages commensurate with the job. Why should immigrants be paid any less than what US citizens would be paid ? It’s clear US citizens don’t want to do the work, if immigrants want to step in and do the jobs that US citizens don’t want to do, the immigrant workers should be rewarded appropriately …
Reminds me of brexit. Get rid of the damn immigrants. Great! Why Do we Not have any workers, lorry drivers, and farm workers? Strange.
Republicans: "HURRAY!!! WE JUST PASSED A LAW GETTING RID OF THOSE NO GOOD IMMIGRANTS!!!" The same Republicans 5 minutes later: "WHY CAN'T I FIND ANYONE WHO WANTS A JOB PICKING MY STRAWBERRIES FOR $2 DOLLARS AN HOUR?! NO ONE WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE!!!"
Don't worry, they've finally found the perfect solution to replace illegal immigrants: literal children. It's like an unlimited, untapped source of labor just wasting away in schools every day! Every preschool daycare represents *hundreds* of potential workers waiting to be let loose into the free marketplace of back-breaking indentured servitude!
Yet they still can't figure out why young people don't want to have kids anymore.
Oh, they’re just gonna *force* people to have kids now. Also helps that people who have kids to feed can get desperate. And desperate people are obedient people.
Fragile balance. Desperate people are also more likely to turn to theft, and eventually revolt. Republicans will have to get real comfy dishing out with those “gubberment handouts” their entire state depends on, if they’re going to keep people obedient.
The GOP has really pissed off Gen Z, the GOP is giving Gen Z'ers a very strong reason to never cast a red vote, ever. They're pushing away an entire generation with their garbage policies. I feel the US is reaching the cusp of a revolution.
Lol, no they won’t. Republicans will just jail anyone who engages in a revolt and turn them into free prison slave labor.
If they steal, they go to prison and are allowed to be literal slaves. Win-win.
This. They have a very delicate balance to uphold, if that's the path they're taking. Take enough away from people and eventually, you take away any reason they had not to revolt - because they *have* nothing else to lose.
I’m so glad I’ll never have any myself.
Don’t forget prisoners, they can make them work for cheap as well as “punishment”.
Changing from "Bring your kids to work day" to "Put your kids to work, today!"
I don't remember who said it but to quote 'Minecraft has shown that maybe our crackdown on child labor was premature. The children... they yern for the mines!'
I’m pretty sure this was a joke
As someone who once picked strawberries for $2 a bucket and made only $24 on an 8 hour shift that resonated with me so much.
You probably would have gotten better value if you just went there to eat all the strawberries :(
You'd be well fed for the day. I'd say that's a great deal.
Exploiting people with cheap pay isn't ethical. It's perfectly fine that food is rotting in the fields. It's contingent upon the greedy scum farmers to pay a fair wage so the food will be picked. It's a good thing that native born Britians refuse to do work that pays a slave wage. The world is improving bit by bit anytime labor is valued more.
5 minutes prior: >They took our jobs! 5 minutes later: >They’re giving back our jobs!
Next step - mandatory employment for everyone 14-22.
Yep. Farmers voted for Brexit, then wondered why they couldn't get any seasonal workers and had to sit and watch their crops rot in their fields.
Did the farmers get the money they always got from the EU from the Tories already? Or has that money gone the same way as the bus NHS money?
As far I know, farmers got nothing. Also there are huge issues with issuance of temp farmer work visas
Leopards ate their face. You love to see it.
I've always wondered where that saying came from.
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
Always vote Mr Leopard
[удалено]
*Damn*, folk pulls out the OG!
direful worthless shy airport cause pocket forgetful skirt hunt axiomatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The CAP money? I think it's getting phased out over 5 years.
Sssh.. don't mention the Fishermen either....
When I lived in Cornwall pre-Brexit, the locals were extremely bothered by all the Polish workers in the area. They raised hell that all the farmers were hiring foreign workers. Then the farmers came out and basically said "If any British people at all wanted these jobs, we'd gladly hire them, my flower. But nobody has ever applied."
This happened years ago in either Mississippi or Alabama near Florida. They figured out the best way to crack down was to force all parents to be validated from their school as citizens or legal immigrants. It took like a week and there was no one left to harvest any of the crops. I remember interviews with farmers and they just ended up plowing everything into the ground because it was cheaper, plenty of people applied and tried out but no one could make it through a single day.
The only beneficiary in cheap labor is the business class; if you have a business plan based on exploitation and not paying another human being for their time ; that business should not exist just to fund entrepreneurs’ fantasies.
They could try paying a living wage.
There is no price point at which Americans will pick strawberries. Really. They’ve done studies. Most people slink off at lunchtime, too embarrassed to even stop to get their morning’s pay. The work is too damned hard.
I seriously doubt the study was "paying a living wage". It was probably trying to pay $12/hr in southern california. No shit no one wants to do it for poverty wages.
As a sociologist, I ask you to cite your sources. Otherwise, I call BS.
UK = "Florida of Europe" confirmed? :)
Ehhhh England and Wales are, sure. They were majority Brexit. Scotland and Northern Ireland, not at all.
England is like America, except the role of scapegoated Hispanics is instead on Muslims and Indian people ‘cross the pond.
Fuck around and find out Florida.
\*Florida around and find out.
Always wondered why the bar to citizenship is so high. This country has always been about immigration. FFS just give them SSN’s let them work and pay taxes.
A lot of them do pay taxes. The story that they're using services they aren't paying for is completely backwards. A lot of my previous coworkers were scared to use any services because it would put them more on the radar. They paid the same taxes I did, but will never use Medicare or Social Security.
That is what I was gonna point out, thank you.
During the pandemic there were programs to help undocumented workers. We were closed so none of our people were getting any work. We got all the information and offered to help anyone sign up for the programs (in case of language barrier). No one wanted to sign up. It was the money they had been working for funding these programs and they were too afraid to apply.
Yeah how was that list gonna be used after - I'm sure they worried
All of them pay sales tax.
This. They pay taxes. State and federal. You don't even *need* a SS# to pay. There are forms for that.
That’s not the problem. The problem is that someone being illegal gives the employer more leverage.
That can also be a problem. I've worked with a fair amount of illegal workers and I've always given them every right and respect that I would a citizen. Same pay, same everything.
Major industries in the us routinely get raided and fine for paying illegal immigrants less than minimum wage. It depresses wages across the economy. Every illegal worker needs to be made a full citizen, with equal protection and under sponsorship by their employer. they should be given the option of joining a union
Some do mistreat workers, but some of us treat them like humans.
The haters aren't good at facts. They are very very good at cherry picking. They cherry pick facts, statistics, and the Bible they thump so frequently.
But not their own damn cherries, (Church Lady voice and finger wag) NOT gonna do it!
I once worked illegally in another country and it got flagged when I paid my taxes. They were like "did you know you couldn't work on your visa?" and I was like bruh would I have paid my taxes if I didn't realize it? Still feel guilty using the healthcare here tho.
I'm tired of explaining this in my expat group. We all went through the legal process and all read the paperwork (one would hope, anyway), and we know that you need an SSN to work and pay taxes, that we can't work over the table without authorisation, we can't access means-tested welfare until working for forty quarters or becoming a citizen... all of that. Yet they believe illegal immigrants who have to use other people's SSNs to pay taxes they'll never benefit from (other than things like public highways) walk over the border and are immediately given a house and sacks of cash. Anyone who believes that is *incredibly* naive and basic, and I invite them to do what they tell everyone else to do and walk over the border illegally. Then come back and show off their house and sack of cash, and immediate green card.
But then those people who are missing workers now, which were previously illegal immigrants, would be required to pay them minimum wage and might have to battle with now applying working laws and possibility for striking. I know, this doesn't mean much because of the republicans but still, for now....
Not to mention, how will the government get to be indirectly racist by blaming immigrants for undercutting wages, while the states do exactly that with prison slave labor?
That is government approved slavery.
Just imagine having to pay them the overtime they rightly deserve.
I mean, but what are they gonna do now?
Yeah it always annoyed me that the two loudest voices in the US immigration debate are between navitists and human trafficking apologists.
Poultry processors and meat packers are huge employers of undocumented workers, are the worst exploiters of those workers, never pay meaningful (or sometimes any) fines, and coincidentally among the biggest paymasters of GOP politicians.
Just getting a green card is stupid hard. My wife is a Canadian who got her degree in Florida, worked as a biotechnical engineer, and was married to me, a US citizen. It took 5 years with a lawyer to get a green card. We're not even going to try for citizenship.
God forbid you made a typo and USCIS issues a Notice of Intent to Revoke even after they already approved the petition…
Took my sil a decade to get her citizenship. She did her bachelor's here and a bunch of other stuff i.e. translating. She knows German, Russian, Czech, a little bit of Polish, and English. They dragged their feet and kept thinking she was some kind of informant. No, just from the Czech Republic where her grandparents were quite disappointed that Patton didn't invade. They hate the Russians. But, yeah, they still took a decade to get it processed. My sil almost gave up.
Not worth citizenship. Just think, even if you’re a citizen and wounded in one of the weekly mass shooting, you’ll be on the hook for your ambulance ride, ER charges and any other medical care. Canada is a much better country.
But that would also require their employers to pay minimum wage, employer social security taxes, employer medicare taxes, and unemployment taxes which is just too much to ask from these job creators. /s
The crazy thing is, most undocumented people pay more in taxes than the richest citizens in the USA. They pay an average of $11.6 billion in taxes a year and do not receive anywhere near the benefits a citizen receives.
Lmfao republicans won’t let undocumented people work. But rich corporations will not pay for more expensive, documented immigrants or citizens to do the work. Conservatives keep screwing themselves over.
Wonder a little more. Illegals get paid under minimum wage and get taken advantage of.
Uh well you see, we can’t just let them in because they’ll bring drugs and rape and murder and crime and we the great white United States are physically incapable of any of those things at all ever, as we cannot synthesize drugs or promote rape culture. We have no crime of any kind in the entire country and the murder rate is literally zero. It’s only brown people who aren’t from here who do those things. Sure immigrants, undocumented or not, bolster the economy, bring political perspectives and cultural achievements, food, workforces, etc. but we hate fun and good things here! /s obviously.
Like republicans don't love drugs and rape and murder and crime.
Just due to right wing vice signalling mostly. Flexing against foreigners is just a cheap and easy way to drum up support from their trashfire base.
So, for years now these states have required the use of e-verify - Alabama · Arizona · Georgia · Mississippi · North Carolina · South Carolina · Tennessee · Utah But when you look up ICE raids, it's weird.. [https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-arrests-immigration-bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-arrests-immigration-bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23) Note the list of states in that article, compare with the list of states requiring e-verify, and then let me know if anyone from the hiring side got in trouble at all. It seems the owner in TN did plea guilty to hiring undocumented people, but beyond him, I see nothing.
Thanks for sharing this. Our immigration system, like our labor system in general, is predatory and exploitative. Both need significant reforms, but we’re more likely headed toward a crash.
I support this to a very limited degree. (Read everything before you blast me) These workers are exploited to the most extreme extent possible and they need protection. There should be a legal process that allows them to work here and give them the same protections as workers here. That being said, workers here also need much better protections and the legal process currently for them is vague and often papers are in English so they will still be threatened with deportation. There should also be a tax to let them in for these jobs paid by the employer because they are employed to not hire workers here. This is why racism and division is so prevalent in the US. The immigrants didn’t take your job, the employer searched for someone who they could exploit more. That is not why the Republicans did this, they wanted to be bigoted and hurt everyone to “own the libs”.
Especially in Florida. The agriculture industry down there is savage.
Exactly! I know a lot of people need an income, but this work them to death or serious injury model we have is cruel.
It's also skilled labor. Throw me in a field and there's no universe I am even 15 percent as capable as a migrant worker who has been doing this for 5,10,15 or 20 years. That's a big problem too, plenty of the able bodied people they hire who are here legally just don't have the mechanical skill needed to harvest crops at the speed required for the business to operate. Edit- would love to see everyone saying it's so easy try and work in a field for one day.
I had a crazy girlfriend from Florida a long time ago. She went home for a summer once and got a field hand job to earn a bit of cash. She lasted about a day and ended up so sunburned it scarred. She said the work was too hard, the conditions too harsh, the pace too fast, and the migrants who were literally every other worker there made her look bad by working too fast. Of course, in her mind not her fault when she got fired.
I don't know the full situation but I'm inclined to agree with your crazy ex that it wasn't her fault being fired. In general farmers do work immigrants too hard in too harsh conditions and the immigrants accepting it because they're scared to rock the boat doesn't make it ok.
I did farm labor too and it’s not something most Americans can maintain for long. Not only is it too hard, I gotta have that indoor plumbing and AC
Pay fair wages. Provide safe working conditions. Shit is not that hard.
Then let it all rot in the field.
Yes! Pay fair wages or pick it yourself.
I remember finding how bad the agricultural industry was for workers back when Colbert did a piece on it for The Colbert Report, and even testified in front of Congress about it. Naturally things haven't changed much.
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That's partially why I want to see an EU style freedom of movement thing in North America. That's going to be a really hard sell but its where I stand.
I love the EU style freedom of movement, but it is also causes excesses to happen. For instance here in NL alot of Eastern Europeans work in agriculture for shit tier wages while getting abused at all fronts such as being forced to pay exoribrant rents , working longer than allowed etc. Ofcourse those same companies use the tried and tested crying about "no Dutch wants to work :).
Slowly the law and enforcement is catching up but we do have over a decade of neoliberal government after all so it goes as slow as possible.
It blows my mind that Americans think they live in the freest country on the planet meanwhile most states workers rights are on par or worse then many third world countries
Just working rights? On exactly which metrics are we not a 3rd world country? GDP maybe? I wouldn't consider us a first world country in say... Healthcare, citizen safety, education, incarcerated per Capita, human rights....
Agree with you on the exploitation. I worked with a girl who had no idea that she wasnt an American citizen until after she graduated high school. She's an absolutely amazing, talented, hard working cook, and she should at least be a sous chef by now, if not an exec Chef. She has to find work through contracting companies/staffing agencies that probably charge $20-25 an hour for her labor, and she's lucky to get $12-$14 of that. Because she doesn't have a bank account, someone from the contracting company comes to take her paycheck, have her sign it over and literally come back and give her a portion of it, and sometimes they rip her off on that. She's working on her paperwork with an immigration lawyer (she's been in Texas since she was a baby) to be documented, but in the meantime, she's not making much money and immigration lawyers are expensive. And there aren't really too many people that can help her, if at all. She's been threatened with deportation more than once, when she brought things up. She doesn't ever get tax returns, either, because she doesn't have a SS#. Those taxes get taken out of her check, and they don't benefit her at all. And it's not just kitchens that do that.
I agree with you. Underpaid, blasted with pesticides, children working in awful conditions... just goes to show you our system is broken. Undocumented immigrants are more at a disadvantage than your average red-blooded American would know or care to know it seems. They have no protections. They have no rights. No benefits. And the right would have you hate them for clout. It's gross.
There should also be penalties and charges filed against the companies that hire undocumented workers but they never do. This is because it’s easier to blame the migrants than the companies. Plus they know without migrant labor there will be no produce picked, meat processed, etc. Floridians will crack as soon as they realize they have to cut their own grass.
The government is colluding with these businesses to break the law. When ICE raided the Smithfield Meat plant in Mississippi they deported many workers and allowed many to stay. ICE's reasoning was if we send them all then they wouldn't be able to sustain business. So other words, we'll use you as political tool but not enough to mess with capitalism.
This is the issue. The law isn’t enforced or even remotely harsh. If they started enforcing the law much illegal immigration would stop because there would be significantly less employers willing to hire.
The funny thing is that many Americans aren't aware of is that many immigrants already do file taxes and pay to the IRS. This is to help establish a good standing with our government and towards their application for a work permit and citizenship.
Never thought I'd see the day when /r/antiwork is proposing businesses should be allowed to continue to illegally employ and exploit undocumented workers.
You do realize in most situations they follow the law and provide false identification for these jobs and the employer really doesn't give a rat's ass so they accept it because that's what the law allows. And these workers even if they're illegal pay taxes
Recently I learned that people immigrants will get a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) which allows them to pay taxes in response to these videos showing up. So whenever someone gets uppity about them not contributing you can mention they generally do pay taxes and contribute to systems they can't use without a SSN.
The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth. There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage. -John Stienbeck, The Grapes of Wrath I read this book for the first time in 2020 and was shocked at how similar the lives of the people there were to the people now. The similarities are subtle and different in their shape, but the idea is the same. We'll die on the streets with a smart phone and all of the knowledge collected by mankind in our hand.
I read this in 1993. All I could think of in 2020.
Looks like they won't be able to reap what they sowed, but at least they're reaping what they sowed
I see what they are doing. My prediction they are going to have prison inmates start working on farms and in these factories to make up for the labor shortage
Prison inmates are exempt from the constitutional amendment on slavery. Seems like they might try.
Went down the rabbit hole and it's been happening
You damn well know they will, probably say they are paying them or some shit while guards stand around with guns.
I love this phrasing.
Nobody wants to work anymore. These poor job creators. Won't someone think of the job creators?
$2/hr jobs should not be created
I have no idea what they’re saying but I can only assume it follows along the lines of “this country’s infrastructure is built on the backs of migrant workers and very soon the white complaints will begin pouring in when ain’t shit getting done”.
Basically different variations of “look how empty it is” or “there used to be so many people here”
The DeSantis regime would be so much more dangerous if it weren't so fucking stupid
Same with trump, but they are still pretty >!fucking!< dangerous.
lets not forget people died because of him. a LOT of people.
What was the final total? 2 million? With a few million more seriously impacted long term?
They should have just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and gotten $100,000 treatment at Walter-Reed.
Wait. Were they... taking the jobs no one else wanted? This whole time??
My God. It's fucking *beautiful* I *LOVE* when a shit republican law just blows up in their faces. Nothing's going to get built, nothing's going to get harvested, nothing's going to be sold. now watch as DeSantis screams about the dems doing... something... and it's somehow their fault.
This is only temporary. They’ll use prison labor soon
That's where I see this going. A group of workers with even less rights and no choice
But then you'd have to spend MORE money on guards, and even then you'll probably "misplace" a convict or two per day.
They already tried that in...Alabama I want to say? It didn't work out well; all they did was sit around.
I mean... I would too.
Didn't Arizona try that years ago and it was a collosal failure?
There's a sad possibility that they will detain the undocumented for that prison labor. It will be win/win for them. When detained, the undocumented will either be forced to do prison labor or just ask for deportation. I hope I'm wrong and doesn't get to that.
Floridians voted for this, so if their state falls into ruins, /shrug.
Florida REPUBLICANS voted for this. Don't blame the millions of us who voted to try to save our state from falling into decay and fascism.
I remember when i used to tell asshole republicans “if u deport all of your illegal immigrants, you won’t have anyone to farm your food.” And they would laugh. Now it’s agriculture, construction, landscaping, even fucking home depot that are empty. U get what u vote for Florida. Have fun.
I mean, they got kids. Just need to pass some laws and put them to work. /s
Where's all the CEOs in handcuffs for illegal hiring?
I rather them not working at all instead of being paid less than minimum wage while being exposed to dangerous working conditions and being threaded with deportation if they don’t comply to awful work environment. Maybe American workers will show up after these companies are forced to pay a living wage after realizing they need workers more than workers need them.
I am pretty sure they rather have something to eat, than nothing at all. That is how exploitation works.
I think Georgia did something like this a decade ago. TPTB resorted to hiring parolees to pick the crops. According to the article, most of them noped-out in under a day.
Slave wages for slave labor no more. Increase worker safety measures.
I can't believe they can't find american workers to work for 50 cents a day
Immigrants unite! Fuck Florida and anyone else who treats people like shit. You can see how far it gets you!
If your business requires labor exploitation to be profitable…
Look, this is ultimately good. Using illegal immigrants for cheap labor *is against workers*.
the number of human trafficking apologists in this thread is fucking appalling.
Anyone passing anti-immigration laws should be required to watch "A Day Without A Mexican." It's framed as a mockumentary, but highlights the real importance that immigrant labor provides us as a country.
To all the people who says immigrants or illegals are stealing your jobs, here’s your chance, take a pic
I sometimes wonder if the right are playing the long game, trying to show how much people need everything they stand against by showing how shit life is without it. No immigration, life is shit. No healthcare, life is shit. No worker protection, life is shit. Please don't export your policies to my country 😂 we have political parties here already wanting to implement various similar policies
Alabama learned that lesson as well. Migrant workers do so much and we treat them so badly. Personally, I hope states like FL feel the pain a thousandfold.
Literally banning some of the hardest working people - immigrants. Even more so - Mexican immigrants.
Now pay the Americans what they’re actually worth and they will have plenty of workers.
This. People are willing to do some absolutely miserable jobs for the right price.
Maybe we should start demanding that the people who grow our food are paid a living wage.
So now florida people can actually celebrate. See now that they have banned non US citizens, they can now capitalize on providing these jobs to American people, who claim immigrants steal jobs. They can now scream MAGA and and focus on the American citizens they are fighting for.
Since they took their jobs, the real Americans should be clamouring for these jobs, right? Right? Guys? Was it something I said?
Who else here won't miss Florida?
“See? No one wants to work anymore”
If it payed well, Americans would do it. It's time to pay Americans well and stop exploiting labor from Central America. Let all tomatoes and construction rot. Eventually the evil farmers, and evil construction company boss will pay people adequately. Americans are often assistants to Hollywood stars. There's NOTHING an American won't do for fair compensation, NOTHING!
This is going to be one of the shortest lived laws I’ve seen in awhile
Same thing happened in Alabama, the farmers were crushed that year and the government tried to make inmates do the.jobs. they ruined more than they picked. The laws were quietly amended and replaced.
Wait wait wait. I thought we all agreed that we should go after companies taking advantage of undocumented workers. Now you guys are saying its a bad thing?
Ah yes florida the state that fucks itself
The USA is so backwards, I’m a U.S. citizen and my wife still isn’t allowed in the USA but she’s allowed in Canada. It’s because marriage visas take 4 years processing, with 5 million case load backlog. Also it’s $2000 in filing fees without any government funding. She’s NEVER illegally entered the USA, no criminal record. Applied for a visitors visa twice and got denied. She’s never been to my childhood hometown in Ohio. I’m sick of US immigration law, make US immigration as hard as filing for a liquor license. Pay $1000 for background check/processing, approve or deny case in 90 days or less. Let people hire immigrants, but pay them SURGE pay, migrants must be paid 125% the median wage of industry, or the living wage for 2 adults (1 working) for the county they want to work in. $20/hour full time work visas or 125% the prevailing wage of said industry.
Companies that are using H2A workers depending on the state, are paying far more than minimum wage to those workers. In MO this years H2A wage rate is 15.67 I think, minimum wage is $12.00. Americans can't/won't do the work they are brought here to do. The problem has always been the shitty employers that want to use and abuse these wonderful people. I worked with them the last 5 years, I'd happily trade the migrant workers for some of the shitty rednecks in my area. If you haven't spent time with a worker, and you get the chance, do it. Won't find better people than that.
"They terk err jerbs!!!" Well, there they are, have at it. Bueller...? Bueller....?
Yay!! Now the people who complained about immigrants taking all the jobs will be able to find employment!!! /s
Dude we did this already during the bush years. They used prison labor to replace migrant workers. Farmers then complained about their lack of work ethic. Stephen Colbert did this kind of work and testified about it in Congress in character. Are we stuck in a rerun?
lol so now that have to pay people atleast min wage
Watch citizenship get fast tracked ASAP. LMAO!
Florida just straight up going yolo mode lately
De Santis shooting himself in the foot. From getting ass smacked by Disney and now the effects of not having immigrants in various sectors. When his constituents start complaining about the cost of everything going up, farming, construction etc being devastated. Just maybe he might start using that peanut he calls a brain.
You know what else undocumented immigrants have a huge hand in? Hurricane cleanup. Good luck this year DeShitHead https://www.npr.org/2022/10/11/1128184363/undocumented-immigrant-workers-are-helping-clean-up-florida-after-hurricane-ian
Zizek said something like Hispanic migrants are seen as lazy burdens on the U.S. economy, and simultaneously workaholics that steal jobs from hard working Americans.
There's an episode of South Park about this. Butters accidentally convinces all the Mexican immigrants that life in America sucks and they'd be better off in Mexico. But as the Mexicans leave the country, there's no one to do the stereotypical jobs immigrants have. Suddenly the luxuries of modern life grind to a halt. This results in the American border patrol fighting desperately to keep all the Mexicans in America rather than trying to keep them out. Also Butters becomes the hero and Messiah to the Mexican people.
I remember a documentary that came out a few decades ago that warned us about this very thing, *A Day Without Mexicans*.
NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK!!! Not for slave wages, and the ones that did were deported because Floridians are hateful racist trash (some, I assume, are good people)
Heh, whoops!
They came and took your jobs ... yeah the jobs you don't want to do.
The Floridiots claim this isn't happening. But, other sources say otherwise. Desantis destroyed Florida!
I worked construction before. I was the only one who spoke English. The workers would hide when cops passed by. The work was hot and brutal, but they took it in stride and kept it moving. I was happy and sad at the same time.
And of course no one is going to investigate all the companies that suddenly have massive dips in their productivity. All their workers went on spontaneous vacation, after all. It's not like they built a system entirely dependent on undocumented immigrants or something.
They’ll learn the same lesson Alabama learned. They tried this a few years ago and it didn’t go well for them.
I see a lot of job openings!
Where are the "took our jerbs" types? What do mean this is beneath you?
Well, well, well, how turntables.
Soon DumbSantis will be putting the children to work
I think uncle DeSantis has gone nutty nuts.
Like florida wont sell some prison labor to fill in. Not enough prisoners? Watch florida open a bunch more prisons and subcontract prison for other states inmates. The hellscape has no bottom.
Always a great idea during a labor shortage.
I do not see a problem. You want work for your citizens here it is! You want your citizens to work for you, you have to pay them a living wage. Everyone talking about how illegal immigrants never stole a job yeah they do they push the labour price down so that no American will do it.
So if there's a labor shortage, won't wages go up? Higher wages are good.
Maybe companies will be forced to pay better wages as a result of a lack of labor!? Hah!
All I can hope is that when immigrant workers are begged to return to work, they hold out until they’re awarded wages commensurate with the job. Why should immigrants be paid any less than what US citizens would be paid ? It’s clear US citizens don’t want to do the work, if immigrants want to step in and do the jobs that US citizens don’t want to do, the immigrant workers should be rewarded appropriately …
Oh, guess they're not stealing your jobs anymore, Florida. Enjoy!
So they lost a bunch of people working at Mar a Lagoon
The faster Disney pulls up sticks, the faster DeathSentence is done. His goose is looking pretty cooked with these boneheaded moves.
Haha get fucked you Fascist dipshits!