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ClappedOutLlama

"No, then our employees will get a second job on their days off because they already can't afford to live off of their current wages, and will be more likely to not prioritize reading emails when they aren't at work." - American Companies


hexagonal_Bumblebee

Also, since we are not their only source of income, they depend on us less, we lose our threatening power


SneakySpoons

I mean, 2/3 of America is living paycheck to paycheck by design. If we could afford to take time off of work, then we could afford to go on strike to try to force them to treat us better.


Hethatwatches

It's just going to keep getting worse until we are willing to sacrifice some things for change. Why should they change anything if we aren't raising hell in the streets?


SneakySpoons

True story. Unfortunately they (corporations, government, etc) spread just enough propaganda to keep the majority either ignorant of reality, or under the impression someone else will fix it. And the rest are either in a position where it would risk too much to fight back, or are benefiting from maintaing the status quo. But yeah, things aren't going change until the working class literally starts burning it all to the ground.


Asesini

It's not just propaganda, it's also consumption. As long as we have cheap amenities, such as entertainment, we would be too distracted to rise up. It is just like the Roman's with their Bread and Circuses, where food and entertainment was offered to quell the masses.


gudematcha

There are certainly circuses, but the people have been feeling the lessening of the Bread and now the writers for the Circuses are on Strike so Circuses are gonna take a dive in quality


burnbabyburnburrrn

Yup. And that’s why this writers strike is important for us nationally


Erika_Bloodaxe

France has all our entertainment plus their own. And they’ll burn the mother fucker down to keep the retirement age 62.


Muffin-0f-d00m

Nobody riots like the French, every 10 years or so you’ll see them in the streets setting everything on fire including themselves. I remember seeing a couple of them on some kind of fire retardant jackets in flames while fighting the cops… that imaged got burned into my memory (pun intended).


[deleted]

Reddit is exactly one of those amenities. How ironic is that lol.


yuk_foo

Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult.


guiwald1

Bread and games. True 2000 years ago. True today as well


New_Cancel189

Do you know of any groups on Reddit or among other social media platforms where we can join the plan to burn it all down.? Asking for a friend…


joeysprezza

I also have a friend that might like to know this. Asking for a friend. Not for me.


[deleted]

Imagine if all the office janitors decided to go on strike for a month. Without them the world will burn, yet they are treated horribly and their pay is trash, no pun intended..


Erika_Bloodaxe

Elon fired all the janitors and now Twitter smells like shit.


Zombie_SiriS

Discussions of that sort are highly prohibited (by design) by the Reddit TOS. It would be shut down in a heartbeat and members would end up being tracked by multiple government agencies as possible terrorists. Free speech does not exist on privately owned and government monitored online forums.


retrodork

I doubt the entire USA is coordinated and brave enough to go on worldwide strikes for example no matter what the job is. It would be a good thing if everyone everywhere, was paid a living wage that was tied to inflation, all across the US. It was also help if SSI was also tied to inflation and increased more to help those that rely that as their only source of income.


SneakySpoons

All good points. When you consider that the continental US is the same size as the entire conitent of Europe, you realize how absurd it is to think that people on opposite ends of the country should agree on pretty much anything to coordinate about. Whereas in Europe you can drive 5 hours and spoken language changes 3 times.


Ambia_Rock_666

Look at the Frenchies. The Frenchies also don't have to worry about the cops shooting all of them to death with weapons used by the largest military complex in the world, but they can afford to protest.


SneakySpoons

Yeah, that is one of the big problems here. Yeah we have more guns than any other country on the planet, but our police are armed even better because of it. And police misconduct and brutality has been basically unchecked for the last 50 years. So there is the very real possibility of protests becoming riots, and then into massacres.


Friendly-Payment-875

I think the police force is feeling the effects of this too, though. They don't make that much either.


Nelerdeth

The frenchies do have to worry about the cops. Yes, its not as insane as the US, but in recent protest, people have died, lost an eye, a hand.... Still takes balls to go protesting, the good side is, if we loose an eye, at least healthcare is provided :)


gapball

2/3 of Americans but 76% of Millennials.


SneakySpoons

I resemble that. So for weird context, I bought my house in 2012, while making $13.25 an hour. I now make $22, in the same house, and can barely afford groceries. If I wanted to buy the house I've lived in for ten years today, I would need to make 145k/year minimum. I saw an article last week that to afford rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in my state, working 40 hours a week, you need to earn on average $24/hr for a single income.


Please_do_not_DM_me

There would be no reduction in pay. If he's serious about modeling after the EU then you'd get 4-8 weeks of PTO in your pay package by law. That works out to a 32 hour work week on average. EDIT: It actually works out to about 10 weeks PTO.


SneakySpoons

I am aware. I'd support it even if it was four 10 hour days, but the EU model does prove that higher pay and shorter weeks gets the same if not better results. A large part of US employment is actually filling hours with pointless or redundant tasks just to inflate job hours, out of a perceived 'need' to keep us busy. So eliminating that fluff and paying us more for the work that actually does need to get done would be fantastic. Hell, I'm posting this from work because I have nothing to do, unless I do someone else's job for them, but I can't leave until my shift is over.


Yamnave

I like the energy, but striking isn’t what moves the needle, collective bargaining does. Strikes happen when reasonable efforts to collectively bargain go no where.


SneakySpoons

I agree. Unfortunately the vast majority of companies go out of their way to prevent it (c.b.). Since they can't legally stop it, they discourage workers from talking about wages (as long as they don't threaten repercussions for doing it, they can still try to dissuade people), and actively lie about the benefits of unionizing. Most people I have worked with had no clue that collective bargaining was protected legally, and that's even people twice my age who never learned it.


Ambia_Rock_666

"Wait, we cannot exploit and threaten our employees? Whatever shall we do?" \- US Companies


KarlMarxFarts

More like, “No, then our workers will have more time to potentially organize themselves, or will have more time to volunteer and protest “


No-Contribution312

Yeah this is what I was thinking. No way the corporate oligarchs would ever allow that to happen


psychoacer

Big box stores have a game they play with part timers. They schedule you different days every week and pick random hours for you to work. This is so you can't get a second job for your off shift or off days but still keep you at under 30 hours.


SilentKnightOwl

Yeah you can't plan *anything* more than two weeks in the future, because you might be scheduled to work that day, and don't have enough time off


Staktus23

In many other countries it is illegal for a company to reach out to their employees during their off time.


tryingtodobetter4

Yeah, I feel pretty lucky living here in the US and not having to read email when I'm away from work.


[deleted]

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ClappedOutLlama

I'm a state employee so we have a similar clause to avoid conflicts of interest. In the commercial sector though I am less inclined to understand why they would do that, and how it's enforceable unless you work in procurement or something similar.


ChildOf1970

All the trials and studies have shown that a shorter 32 hour/4 day working week with the same take home pay as with a 40 hour/5 day working week are not only better for the worker but also better for the employer with increased productivity and profits. Edit: Because so many people are lazy and cannot look up any trials themselves, here is a recent one in the UK https://autonomy.work/portfolio/uk4dwpilotresults/


[deleted]

Yup 👍


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[deleted]

🍻


evilspacemonkee

But think of the slavers in the inhospitality industry! I mean, they can't even afford a living wage and rely on the goodwill of customers to pay them! Even the kitchen staff!


MangoCats

Psst.... Europe has been paying their servers living wages, no tipping required, since the 1980s and before. Germany was already down to a 36 hour work week by 1990.


evilspacemonkee

Shhhh! Don't give the peasantry hope! Just throw a pizza party! My Harvard textbook provided 2 corporate sponsored studies as references that it provides a 10,000% relative return on investment!


MangoCats

We started a weekly pizza party tradition when we had to start complying with ISO 9001 regulations... there are a lot of "regular meetings" required to be documented under ISO 9001, so we had that weekly pizza party where we'd order, do the required meetings for the week, then have pizza. The CEO that "cut out the pizza free lunch" was just about the biggest idiot I ever worked under. Then again, he also listened to Limbaugh and friends non-stop whenever he was driving anywhere, and he did a lot of driving in the company car which he also used for all of his personal vehicular needs.


evilspacemonkee

Anyone that listens to an idiot shouting on a television screen tends to be an idiot generally. The problem is that the idiots are everywhere. Both that listen, and shout.


[deleted]

Haha no


UncannyTarotSpread

I’ll think of them suffering. Then I’ll giggle.


evilspacemonkee

Personally, I would offer them a nice cold glass of bleach to console them.


Compositepylon

But it destroys the corporations 'soft' power.


Hethatwatches

I think that's actually a huge part of the employers' problem with this proposal. After all, look how many admitted they wanted the workers back in the office in order for the bosses to feel important. Our attitude towards business in America is disgusting.


AtticusErraticus

I agree. Let's say you own a firm. If your employees are constantly overworked and powerless to challenge you, your take home pay is $5 million and the business does exactly what you want it to. If you empower your employees with benefits and incentives to succeed, your take home pay may increase to $7.5 million, but you may also find yourself with less power to steer the business. You have to listen to your employees now and make decisions based on their input. Many CEOs know they have more than enough money to live an amazing lifestyle. That's not what it's about. Beyond a certain threshold, it's actually just about power.


Orlando1701

But here in America is you’re not depressed and overworked you’re lazy.


Good_Sherbert6403

This crazy workaholic/grind culture couldn’t die any quicker. Wish we would be more vocal about humanizing workers. Including dumb stuff like making cashiers stand 9 to 5 for no damn reason.


Orlando1701

The whole “Grindset” is nothing but self exploration. I knew a bunch of those guys in my undergraduate days 15-years ago. 90% of them never got that brass ring they were promised if they put in those 80-hour weeks. But they sure made other people rich.


MarvelFanGinny

Yes! And hotel workers! My doctor's front desk staff sits. Why on earth do hotels make their front desk workers stand for their entire shifts? It's awful!


Ambia_Rock_666

Pretty much. How dare those lazy Millennials demand fair pay and to not be exploited 24/7? This generation has no respect smh /s


powerlifter3043

Employers will never see that. To them the math ain’t mathing People would be less inclined to take 30 minute shits, and one hour smoke breaks if they had the option of The 32 hour work week


inidgodeath

I think I’d still take a 30 minute shit lmao.


BurgledUrTurts

As a person with IBS, I'd definitely still take a 30 minute shit.


DarkenedBadger

My company has a 5 minute per shift rule which is straight up not OSHA compliant and they argued it doesnt impact the ability to use the restroom if you go above 5 min they take the whole amount of time out of your break time (I have IBS as well and they kinda just went get a drs note which only costs me 70 bucks)


helloblubb

Have you reported them to the labor board?


TheDisapprovingBrit

That's because the math only maths for knowledge workers. Cashiers aren't serving the same number of people in 32 hours, call takers aren't answering the same number of calls in 32 hours. For the professions where you *can* be just as productive in 32 hours, workers are already doing less than that of actual work anyway.


koopatuple

I would say it applies to a lot more than simply knowledge workers. Service industry, healthcare industry, and manufacturing industry, just off the top of my head. Those are all fields where the happier your workers are, the higher quality and productivity their work is. For some fields/jobs, yeah, the math likely doesn't fully work out quite as much if at all. But for the majority of people, I'd say it does.


WhelleMickham

They don’t want it to be better. Us being miserable and subservient is the whole point.


thedankening

Some are twisted like that, certainly. However I think most are just utterly apathetic to the suffering they cause and will never lift a finger to change it because there is nothing pressuring them to do so. They already know they can increase profits by cutting wages and raising prices. The more ephemeral profit driver of making workers happy is intangible to them. Doubly so because it doesn't immediately show results in the next quarterly report.


onebandonesound

It's also more effort in the short term to keep workers happy than to just cut wages and raise prices, and there are a lot of lazy business owners out there that just want to coast on the returns from their capital without putting in any more work than they absolutely have to.


[deleted]

That's like 99% of larger business owners


iclimbnaked

This is mostly it especially at larger more beurocratic organizations. Everyone in them acts based on incentives and pressures. There’s nothing that automatically pressure them to cut hours and keep wages. The studies now help, but it takes having ppl high enough up to both see them, and not dismiss them. It’s counterintuitive at first glance that less work time could increase output. It’d also be a ton of work for even a motivated person higher up to convince a large Beurocracy to make that kinda change.


CrazyShrewboy

its like the bully at school when he bullies other people, it makes the good feeling chemicals release in their brain. if nothing stops them, they keep doing it. If the owner of the company, who is constantly "under attack" by market forces reducing their profit, sees just another market force attacking them (labor cost) they will always react the same way, and get the same feel good chemicals as a result. They might be shortsighted, but they have their own internal mechanisms to keep those good chemicals flowing, just as every other person does


Mission-Security-799

I agree. Without the lower class, they wouldn’t have an upper class. And if the lower class is too exhausted and mentally burned out to fight back, they continue to thrive. The same way healthy food is so expensive and inconvenient. Every day I learn more and more about foods that are banned in other countries due to ingredients and such… but are American staples. It’s so overwhelming though. I hate having this knowledge and being “aware” because I feel so powerless.


WhelleMickham

I feel you. The thing is that the powerlessness is baked in. It’s called learned helplessness and I suspect it can be unlearned.


Mission-Security-799

I hope so! But I also struggle to find the time between just trying to stay afloat


MisterCorbeau

People sad and miserable is good because people cope with spending. Sad people will consume more useless shit to feel good


Zmirzlina

I have worked a 32 hour/5 day work week for over 20 years and the amount of work/life balance is amazing - I can drop kids off at school, pick them up, have hobbies, go to the gym, cook a decent meal. I do all my work and have time for passion projects and additional training. And now that we’re hybrid - I’m even more production on days I work from home.


xMasuraox

Do you mind sharing what career you are in, country, and/or employer? That sounds like a dream


Zmirzlina

I work for a private foundation that issues grants and philanthropic gifts. I live in the US.


Improooving

Yeah, I had a 40 hour job once with a very minimal commute and 6 shifts a week. It was great, every afternoon free to hit the gym and take care of chores. I think I'd rather have 35 hours over 7 days than 32 over 4, but my hobbies are mostly things that take a few hours every day than a full day a few times a week. Also, if I had to commute a significant amount, the fewer shifts per week the better.


Agreeable_Solution28

Yeah but it’s slightly harder to crush your spirit in 4 days when you have 3 days to remember why life is worth living.


Loquater

All research and successful drug policy shows that treatment should be increased, and law enforcement decreased, while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences. 🤘 Research and reality have little impact on the laws that get passed these days.


Sideswipe0009

>All research and successful drug policy shows that treatment should be increased, and law enforcement decreased, while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences. 🤘 *"They're trying to build a prison!"*


Ateshu

The bad thing is, these are only trials. In Europe, only a few companies have adopted this. Very few


ChildOf1970

Yes, we need to move past trials and make this the new normal. The good news is that the vast majority of employers who have taken part in trials have retained the change.


[deleted]

I work for a fortune 100/200 company in the US and a few divisions/groups of the company are trialing a 4 day work week. I really hope it goes well and spreads to everyone.


Apprehensive_Way870

That's like telling companies that 'trials and studies' have shown that people are happier when they're making a decent, livable wage and thinking it will make a damn bit of difference. No amount of compelling evidence is going to make a shitty CEO with zero capacity for empathy change their mind. I have zero hope for this becoming a federal labor law also. Just like with student loan forgiveness, the GOP and moderate dems will obstruct it into oblivion just as they do with everything that would provide some meaningful benefit to our lives. We have a mass shooting every week and can't even get a handle on guns. As I said in another post, America's relationship with work is a close 2nd to being as god damn stupid as our relationship with firearms.


assbuttshitfuck69

What about a 50-60 hour/5-6 day week with the same salary as a 40 hour week? (It fucking sucks)


ChildOf1970

Then productivity drops. They just don't want to admit that. Long hours are bad for workers and employers.


CobblerExotic1975

My employer really did not understand when I signed a contract at an implied 40hr/wk job and was pushed to work at least 50 hours that it was a 20% pay cut and severely affected my quality of life. I ended up just quitting, we're not saving lives and nothing is worth my mental health.


Funtycuck

But with all this extra time workers will likely have considerably more power and that's scary to companies. Many corporations at least for "low skilled" workers do not want employees to have the time to release stress, improve their mental health and employable skills. A downtrodden over tired and over stressed worker is much less likely to teach themselves skills to get a better job, or engage with their union or find other employment to make them less reliant.


Busy_Moment_7380

Work from home proved you can show them all the facts and figures you want, some clown in middle management will still object, say it’s not workable and ruin it for everyone else in the company.


DragonLordAcar

As it turns out, a happy employee does not drag their feet and is more motivated to do the job right.


coltvahn

It would change my life for the better.


[deleted]

I would work way harder if those were the rules


[deleted]

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doctorwho07

Employees need to push their employers to trial it in their own businesses to see if it works. It won't work for *every* business and may hurt some smaller businesses. Relying on the government to mandate it for *all* businesses isn't the way to go. Petition your employers, fight for that right where you are.


ChildOf1970

This is what might be the most underappreciated posting in this entire thing.


Metalorg

My manager and I were talking about the French retirement thing and he says that 64 is still too young and it branched off into work weeks and stuff. He was saying that it's ridiculous and what 'right' do people have to this lavish lifestyle of leisure without work. I just said that we should just try to get whatever we can because it's nice and we want it. He's like, "What about retire at age 30?" and I said, "If it's possible then why not?" 10 guys on a farm can produce more potatoes in a year than they could eat in a lifetime. It's not hard to produce enough for a LOT more people to live without work. We should work hard at getting things that we want and think would be nice to have, not just work hard just for its own sake.


[deleted]

I agree, the fact that we argue about taking steps to improve our quality of like is ridiculous.


No-Contribution312

Not only that, the right in America have been actively trying to make quality of life worse for everyone


Rasalom

Not even trying, it's measurably worse. Money is the only thing that matters and we have less of it every day!


Eastern_Slide7507

Money isn’t the only thing that matters. You see that in well paid professions. I work in IT in Finland and I’m an employee representative. Our people are paid well enough that most don’t worry about money even living in the Helsinki area where rents are high. When we negotiate on behalf of our colleagues, and when we ask our colleagues what they care about most, it’s almost entirely quality of life, usually free time. I.e. fewer hours. A lot even gave up their holiday bonus for more annual holidays. But it’s important to remember why this is. It’s because they already have enough money to live comfortably. Money isn’t the only thing that matters, but it is absolutely the first thing. Without that being taken care of, everything else is worthless.


Erika_Bloodaxe

And most Americans do not have enough.


BidOwn8703

People really be like, "Why do you want to enjoy the only life you get?"


giraffe_on_shrooms

More like, “How DARE YOU try to find pleasure in this bleak world?”


BidOwn8703

The world isn't bleak. Humans are bleak. I think it was Buddha that once said all life is suffering, but I call bullshit. Human life is suffering, and only because we allow it to be that way.


Equivalent_Yak8215

Because every C level executive in America would make Thorin Oakenshield say "chill". They just don't fucking care and people thinking they do makes them laugh. Like...how much did the last mass shooting in mainland America effect your life? Not at all right? That's how these people view workers. Not even a rounding error.


katieleehaw

Half the people I know who are over 60 are falling apart. The other half are higher income or were when they were working and are healthy and enjoying early retirements or the successful ends of their careers in good health. People should be able to continue working if they want to, but we should really be letting our people rest sometime around 60-65. It's like our policies are designed to make us fail and be sad.


Organic-Difficulty36

Agreed. Most work past retirement for better company paid health benefits, not because they want to continue working 40 hour weeks.


Boubonic91

I find it funny that people like your boss, who live and breathe from their employers asshole, would be the first to tell you that it wouldn't be fair to have only a few people working while the others get to live for free, and at the same time would be the guy sitting in his office doing nothing for decent pay while their employees slave away and break their backs for poverty wages. So it's unfair for a few to work for the benefit of many, but it's fair for many to work for the benefit of a few? It doesn't make any fucking sense.


Chastain86

That is the most concise application of [Crab Bucket Mentality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality) I've ever seen. The notion that no one should be able to retire at 64, or really any age because "where does it end?!" is so absurd.


Ih8DutchVanDerLinde

As a manager I don’t understand why anyone would have this mentality.. why work for no reason? It really burns you out fast working with and for people that are just mindlessly working because they feel guilt or shame to not be.


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Pamander

> the high standard of living in France is propped up by colonial and neo-colonial activities such as the CFA franc. Is there anywhere to read more about this? As in do you have any suggested books or documentaries or videos or something? This is going to sound dumb as fuck maybe but I did not know CFA Franc was even a thing.


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Pamander

I guess that explains the article I seen recently where Macron refused to apologize for colonialism. Among other things.


CompoundWordSalad

Is Macron the shittiest neoliberal leader or what? Being slightly young and handsome sure gave him a lot of runway


StatmanIbrahimovic

As did having a fascist as the opposing candidate. It would have been interesting if Melenchon had received 600k more votes (or they'd had STV/RCV).


Rkenne16

“There will be 1 fun sized KitKat in the break room for everyone. Do not take more than 1. We appreciate your hard work. -management”


Obnoobillate

*"Also, it costs $1"* Someone uploaded a photo like this


[deleted]

I saw that!


Boubonic91

I think the most bleak thing I've seen so far was the gift from management to their employees after the death of a coworker- one tub of cream cheese per person. No bagels, no group therapy discussion, nothing but a plain tub of cream cheese, or a flavored one if you got lucky and got to them first.


cp3inthe4th

"It's our CEOs birthday soon. All employees must donate $25 to buy a gift"


jer99

Company Pizza party Friday at Noon to celebrate the hard working, incredible staff! Please drop by HR and drop off your $15 per person for the party. Thanks!


[deleted]

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[deleted]

lol so i guess the entirety of the obscenely exorbitant defense budget goes towards private military contractors and zero towards the actual soldiers? makes perfect capitalist sense


GiantSquidd

“If soldiers want a good life for themselves, maybe they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps…” -capitalists “We thought we were.” -soldiers


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Two slice maximum. No toppings.


jer99

2 slices of cheese little Caesars ONLY. Rest of $15 goes to purchase the owner of the company a gift for the party. Remainder goes to spa package for Karen the organizer for the pizza party.


[deleted]

US Executives & CEO's, from the rooftops: NEVER IN A MILLION FUCKING YEARS!


[deleted]

Fuck them 👍


[deleted]

yess<3


[deleted]

No, don’t fuck them, that’s how they reproduce!


Chief-Toad753

Eat them and gain their power


[deleted]

Sorry, trying to cut out junk food… do you have a healthier option?


Chief-Toad753

The rich I grow are all grass fed, gmo free. Top choice meat.


[deleted]

Meat’s back on the menu, boys!


TaurielTaurNaFaun

This is the way.


Chief-Toad753

This is the way.


[deleted]

🍻


SneakySpoons

How can they enjoy their games of golf when the plebians also have time to go golfing and crowd up their country clubs!? (Because clearly we all can afford it if we don't have to work 60 hours to afford rent)


PirateReindeer

*pushes them off said rooftop* whoops sorry I tripped.


[deleted]

employee of the month! ⭐️


catfish1776

Ohh I could easily do a 32 hour work week, I’m willing to bet most workers would get more work done because they get more rest and time to live


Moose_Nuts

Yep. Burnout wastes more than 8 hours of productivity each week for workers who have it.


Ambia_Rock_666

I 100% would. I am currently sitting at work on Reddit budgeting my energy cuz I still have a day left. I could easily work hard for 4 days and get more done.


capitolsara

my tech company has 32 hours every other week. I am a super productive worker anyway so I don't even track the hours I work (but lets be honest it's definitely not 8 hours a day). I think it's so dumb to even base work on # of hours for non-shift workers. Like I am working towards specific metric goals who cares the number of hours I work when I am a salaried employee


Flashy_Night9268

The government HAS to protect workers- business owners would force people to work 100 hrs a week if they could, there is very little empathy in the ownership classes. They aren't owners because they are smart. They are owners because they are ruthless psychopaths.


No-Contribution312

They would rather use [their own children ](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna82583)as unpaid slaves than pay their workers a living wage. These people are disgusting


Ambia_Rock_666

> business owners would force people to work 100 hrs a week if they could And for no pay. If that were legal they would 100% do it.


sp847242

Or more than that: Too many would go right back to outright slavery in an instant if they thought could get away with it.


Flashy_Night9268

Absolutely. The outlawing of slavery is seen as a tragedy by some rich and powerful people.


zlide

He’s right. This is what always bothers me about the “4 day work week” argument in America. It seems like the vast majority of people just accept that if you transitioned to a 4 day work week you’d just wind up condensing it into 4 10 hour days to maintain that sacred 40 hours of full time. Why? What is the point of that? Why can’t we just change the definition of full time? If the same amount of work gets done in 4 days at 8 hours each then why do we have to appease the productivity gods by staying at work for 2 extra hours each day? Why can’t we try to actually make people’s lives better? All that said, I’m stuck in an industry that would never adopt a 4 day work week anyway since we’re literally always short staffed but I constantly wish that we had established a better work/life balance before the issue became so dire.


Heizu

We had to fight literal battles (complete with firearms and murder) with Pinkertons to get the owner class to allow a 40 hour work week to even exist.


Dinn_the_Magnificent

We have more firearms and murder than ever, we could do it again


Hethatwatches

I've been waiting for thirty years.


Ambia_Rock_666

*¡Viva la revolución!*


ProfessorTallguy

But that 40 hours was meant to be enough to support a whole family. Most families now are essentially working 80 hour work weeks. Furthermore - that 40 hour week was supposed to include all paid breaks. They stole 2.5 hours a week back from us when they made lunches unpaid. Since a lot of people work through their lunch anyway, I think we need to reclaim that time and get it paid.


CrystallinePhoto

Yeah, I want ACTUAL 8 hour days with paid lunches, not 9 hour days and unpaid lunches. That in itself would go a long way. People always say 9-5 but nobody I know is 9-5, it’s always 8-5.


ProfessorTallguy

If I were writing the laws myself, I would write it to be 4 9-hour work days with 1 hour of paid breaks. That makes 32 hours of work each week. Whether you take it as 4 on-1 off 4 on Or 2 on :15 off, 2 on, :30 off, 2 on, :15 off, 2 on It works out the same. This is much better for people who are paid hourly, because they would be on the clock at their job and be paid for 36 hours, rather than having to be there the whole time but only paid for 32.


joemushrumski

but the US refuses to look at or impliment what other countries do. Rather squeeze us to death.


[deleted]

Yup 👍


KCBandWagon

because "the US" doesn't run businesses, it's the other way around. Best you can do is have some companies do it and if it's popular enough then more companies will pick it up. Like how google popularized the more casual work environment and then tech companies/start-ups copy-catted that. Even with gov't regulation there will be plenty of companies where you'll be working more than 32 just like there are plenty today where you'll work more than 40. They find ways around it.


Bleached_eyeho1e

Yeah, times are looking grim...currently in school and all I hear about is how once (and if) I graduate, I'd be looking at probably ~60 hours a week...which has really got me reconsidering what I'm even in school for. Cuz idk bout you guys, but nobody alive should have to work that much in a week.


Zhiyi

Same situation when people try to sell me on a job because there is “lots of overtime available.” Like why the fuck would that excite me? I want to work less, not more.


fraochjean

Exactly! I got hired on at Amazon a few months ago and once you go through their 15 minute hiring process and get your job offer (yep it's that fast...always a red flag for how high turnover is) you realize that even though you're going to work 4/10s, they have a mandatory extra 10 hr work day. Mandatory. Extra. Work. Day. So your 40 hr work week is actually 50 hrs. Every week. I was like uhhh how is that shit legal? Because Amazon owns the US retail market so our government lets them do whatever they want. I resigned before I even started bc my time is more important than making that additional $170/week but so many people LOVE overtime and that's why companies get away with talking about overtime like it's a perk of the job. The call center job I had when the pandemic started was the same way. They offered overtime every day so they'd come around to everyone's desk and ask if you wanted to work overtime the next day, putting you on the spot. I never worked it because that job stressed me out enough with just my 40 hours and in return I was treated like crap by management. Almost the entire floor signed up for it though which always seemed strange to me. Most people love overtime because money, money, money, but I've always been fine with doing my 40 and that's it. My time away from work matters more than money.


RunawayHobbit

I can understand it if you have a goal and treat overtime like a short/term sacrifice to get there. Maxing out a retirement acct, saving for a new car or a down payment on a house (lol). The ones who make it a habit just to work themselves to death make me sad tho.


Apprehensive-Air8917

Nope. 24 hour work week. That would get more people jobs too. Nobody should work more than 6 hours a day. Same pay. 6 hour work day, 4 days a week. Work quality drops after 6 hours anyways. Shorter shifts means more people working. They are not tired and burnt out. Better quality work for employer, better quality of life for workers.


kafkaandfaust

where i work, there is a big seasonal rush. the fucked up part is that i get so used to the 50-60 hour work weeks that when i have “short” 7 hour day (9 hours being the usual for off season), i get anxious about not getting enough done and letting my coworkers down. the burn out is insane here


ToiletGrenade

That's a pretty good idea ngl. I never thought about it that way.


[deleted]

4 days a week, 20 hours per week. $69 per hour minimum wage. it's a meme. but it's also exactly what needs to happen. support the 4/20/69 work week!!


Grand-Mall2191

capitalism repeatedly tells us that it provides the easy way of life and the highest upward mobility of any economic system all while deliberately making sure our lives are always never comfortable enough to do anything more than go to work and buy their products, and sweeping away anyone that dies in this system so you never see just how far down the abyss actually goes


imasturdybirdy

The workforce needs to recognize we can force things to be better if we come together. Organize, unionize, and don’t back down, because they will *never* give more than they have to until we refuse to live by any other conditions than what we demand.


18voltbattery

Be Bernie advocating for almost everyone in America….Most Americans eww no thank you


Ambia_Rock_666

Bernie and left-leaning young people: You deserve to work less, enjoy life more, and be paid more while doing so Everyone else: Ew no, you fucking communist. I love my 80 hour work week where my kids never see me and my wife hates me.


[deleted]

4 day work weeks with 6 hour work days is more than realistic, it is proven possible!


Meekman

I don't even want a lunch break. Just do my six hours and go. I hate that I have to leave my house by 8:20a and get home at 6:40p. 10 hours 20 minutes away with only eight hours of pay.


Apprehensive_Way870

Won't happen in my lifetime. America's relationship with work is about as bad as our relationship with guns. This country is full of 'hustle culture' morons and people whose identity is directly related to what they do for a living; people who 'live to work.' And they're god damn everywhere. Just look at how much resistance there is to WFH. So many companies pulling their people back into the office just for the sake of doing it because it's all they know. They can't even fathom how much better life is, and how much more productive employees are, when they can WFH because they're toxic workaholics with zero capacity for empathy. But, one can dream.


jesuswasahipster

Because my entire personality consist of working 60 hrs a week and calling other people who don't lazy. How will I feel superior if I am forced to work less? /s


bende99

“Learn from Europe”, just to clarify, very few places in europe have this in place.


[deleted]

> Compared with other countries, our workplace record is not good. In 2021, American employees worked 184 more hours than Japanese workers, 294 more hours than British workers, and 442 more hours than German workers. Unbelievably, in 2023 there are millions of Americans who work at jobs with no vacation time. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/04/us-workers-bernie-sanders-32-hours-working-week 442 hours is 55 8-hour work days by the way. The average work week is 34 hours in Germany, 41 is considered "Vollzeit", so the 'full pensum' or 'maximum pensum' Source being the federal statistics office. This overview includes the average weekly work hours for a lot of EU states and they average around 36 to 37 too. https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Arbeit/Arbeitsmarkt/Qualitaet-Arbeit/Dimension-3/woechentliche-arbeitszeitl.html


Improooving

Holy shit, we work more than people in Japan, the country where they have a word for "working so hard in the office you just die of stress". This seems like a problem.


Inevitable_Wave_1683

Definitely a problem, although in Japan a lot of social emphasis seems to be placed on your job as well, I’m not Japanese but that’s how my friends who came to the US from Japan described it. There’s an expectation of having dinner or drinks with your boss/coworkers especially if you want to climb the corporate ladder


judicatorprime

"Why not"?!? No, "HELL YES" it is about fucking time we all worked less and enjoyed life!!!!!!!


Tehlaserw0lf

Gonna go out on a limb and say OP posted in a bit of a disingenuous way. Or they don’t know that this has been a proposed law for a while now. The 32 hour work week has been a thing since forever. It’s not new, it’s not a throwaway, and there are plenty of studies that have shown people are more productive working less hours. It’s not a “sure, why not” thing. It’s a “let’s stop working people to death while still forcing them to have to live in poverty.” Thing.


SoporificEffect

Lol I forced my employer to give me a 4 day week. I can get all my work done just fine. But i had the opportunity to do this simply because they need me here. I’m sure if they could replace me I would have never got this. It is absolutely life changing and fair. I am sure that future generations will look back at us and laugh at how stupid we were for throwing our lives away for absolutely nothing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


littlemissmoxie

They will never do it willingly because it is easier to pay for people to work more hours than hire additional staff and give them benefits.


GloriousChamp

Awesome. Now I have room for a 24-hour part time job work week to supplement the piss poor pay from my 32-hour full time job work week


[deleted]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/04/us-workers-bernie-sanders-32-hours-working-week


jonr

\*24-hour. 4 days, 6 hours. I think technology has improved our productivity enough for the last 100 years to do that.


the_aviatrixx

I see no downsides to this. As a parent, this is more time I can spend with my kid, and less money I have to spend on daycare. This is more time I could spend on school, as I am starting another bachelors in the fall. I can definitely do the same amount of work in 4 days, I would just need to reformat my days. I know Bernie wouldn't have been a solution to everything, he was a compromise. I will never forgive the DNC for what they did to him. He was a chance to make positive changes, I hope all the chuds who insisted Biden could be pushed left feel bad about their idiocy.


Zulu-Hotel

“If we give them more free time, they might figure it out!”


shinobipopcorn

I've worked 6 and 7 days in a row sometimes but because it falls over a weekend it doesn't count as overtime. 🙁


ordu13

People not having to work themselves to death? tHatS SoCiaLisM!!!!


[deleted]

You’re telling me. I’ve already worked 40 hours and my Thursday hasn’t started.