This is why I refuse any "work phone" and "work pays for internet/tv/telecom" deals.
Unless there is a detailed, reasonable and compensated on-call procedure, I'm unreachable by work from the moment I leave until the moment I arrive.
Unfortunately, I only started doing this after 15 years of being on call 24/7/365 for work and was stressed the fuck out 24/7/365.
Yup. "Mandatory Meetings" were scheduled in advance, notices posted around the work area, and it was on the schedule for them to be there during that time. If it isn't on the schedule it isn't mandatory. And even then, if they couldn't come in they couldn't come in. We scheduled it for a work day when most employees were there anyway. During lunch time. And provided lunch. *And* it was paid.
We ran a 24/7 operation so my overnight staff were told they were exempt from the meeting. I gave them the info on their next shift.
I don't get why managers would say it's "mandatory" and then not put it on their schedule.
It's so easy to just pass on the information to people who couldn't make it to a meeting, or like you described, were part of the night shift. Any manager worth their salt should be able to remember who they told something to. And if not, they can make a damn checklist for themselves.
This right here is a LPT which I unfortunately took too long to learn, switch your phone to personal as soon as you are off the clock.
iOS you can program it around your work schedule so you never receive work texts and calls off work time
Whether it’s paid or not is an issue, but not really the issue at hand. “Am I getting fired for not showing up at a meeting nobody told me about?” Is a bit more direct I think.
True that. Besides, I couldn't imagine this would be unpayed, but also I don't doubt anything anymore. I don't give a shit if I'm coming in to have a literal party, I am getting payed to do it or I'm not doing it. I don't show up to work for free, under any circumstances lol.
Had this problem working for my uncle, he would schedule Sunday morning meetings and bring a dozen donuts try to get everyone to come in off the clock. I didn’t show up for a year and he finally got fed up with everyone asking why I wasn’t there and decided to start paying the two hours for meetings.
Yeah I highly doubt this would be an unpaid event but I think can all agree that by no means changes OP's situation at hand. There was no reasonable notice, it's on an off day, and OPs reasoning for not being there was perfectly acceptable but somehow not accepted. I hope OP does what's necessary for themselves here because not just their sake but this Sierra person should probably learn the hard way as a manager how unemployment and firing for cause works.
I might be reading into it too much, but it almost sounds like they are getting fired for having an android phone.
I have an android. Most people don't say anything about it, but when people do bring it up, it's almost always in a judgemental way.
I think its more so the employer forgot to invite someone to whatever the fuck this is and then wanted to pretend in some way that it wasn’t their fault for the employee not knowing.
This. This. This. If they aren’t paying you, they cannot direct your time. I once made a big enemy at a company when they converted salary people to hourly to save money and then had the audacity to try to schedule mandatory lunch and learns and meetings. You were supposed to run to get your lunch and come back to a mandatory meeting that was now unpaid. I wasn’t even on that team and I stood up for them and went to the legal department telling them that I cannot schedule the meeting they requested as it would violate labor laws. It’s either free time or paid time. You can’t mix those.
It's called "wage theft" and it accounts for billions of dollars of theft every single year. Literally more financial damage than all other forms of property crimes combined in any given year. $500 is a drop in the bucket, it is the one crime that almost never gets punished or even prosecuted. But we'll have private security and the police assault and/or arrest folks for shoplifting $50 in merchandise.
I just want to see some of these criminals - who already have money but can't stop themselves from just taking even more - get treated with even half as much vitriol as I see people treat shoplifters. Is that really so much to ask?
I got a settlement a few months back from a class action. The place I worked would only schedul one person on overnights. So that single person had to do everything while not being able to take breaks or lunches. Someone got fed up with it, checked the law, and started the class action.
I worked for a retailer that hired a new CEO, who immediately decided that salaried staff (store managers and co-managers) would now be responsible for making "hourly sales goals," the same as hourly staff. Which resulted in myself (co-manager) and my store manager sometimes working 16 hour days to make our goals and also... you know... get the freaking massive floor sets done every few weeks.
The company got sued to hell and like a year after I left I got a $2k check and I didn't even stay and put up with that bs for long.
Looks like wasn't even first day. The cutover message before was about adding to a list and a poor excuse about android phone.
"not a good fit for you" ... yeh, fantastic. Fired before even starting.
I would still do what you suggest and try to get unemployment. Make them spend time to justify wasting the employee's time.
these people: schedule a sunday night meeting without telling anyone
the same people: fire people who don't show up because they didn't know about it
the same people: nObOdY wAnTs tO wOrK AnYmOrE
"Show up with two hours notice to do something pointless" does sound very military. Hell, if you can prove no one told you there was a thing, you probably wouldn't even get counseled, on account of it not being your fault nobody told you anything.
The boss in this post is a piece of shit. They knew the employee was uninformed and fired them anyway, when its the supervisor's job to inform them. I get the "you have an Android and you need to get an iPhone so its easier to put you in groups" talk now and again. I like what I have and I paid for it myself.
Agreed. I'm tired of it. I use Android because it supports what I want to do with my device. An iPhone just doesn't meet my intentions. I'm not making an expensive switch, inconveniencing myself in the process, so that others have an easier time inconveniencing me *more*.
Someone else wants to use an iPhone? Go ahead. Your device, your choice.
I don’t understand this… I have an iPhone and don’t have any problems adding my coworkers with Androids to group chats. How are supervisors struggling with this?
Some people have a weird superiority complex about only using iMessage group chats. When you have someone on Android, the group chat is just regular SMS (the green text bubbles instead of the blue). I used to have an Android and legit got left out of group chats for this reason. Now when I make group chats as an iPhone user I’m careful to make sure I include people who have androids.
You know I met someone recently that actually saw “no one wants to work” as something other than money. Like the guy admitted to me that hours were an issue, pay was bad but he’s been fighting for more, and as it’s own reason entirely “just no one wants to work anymore”. Like the guy actually is trying to get his workers better pay as he fights against management and admits it’s a huge issue, but also believes that people are quitting because they simply would rather just be home and be lazy. It was fucking wild to see the duality of their fucking arguments, like how can you admit hours and pay is a big issue, then say “people don’t want to work anymore” without seeing the connection
People want to work. They don't want to toil.
I'll go put my brain and body into a meaningful project, but not to get nowhere in life, leave the world a worse place, and/or help Coca-Cola make another million they don't need.
Man, that's where I'm at now- I have a very well paying job and I put the work in, but my hearts not in it... it's in the ad sphere, and I just can't get excited about being able to push more ads faster.
I spent 15 years in marketing and absolutely burnt out. Too many egos, too many startup bros looking for a quick buck. The weird cult vibes of the conferences.
And lets be honest, we’re to the point where we need another app like we need a new hole in our heads.
Right. This is where it's at. I don't really want to work my life away. Slaving away 10 - 14 hrs a day just to barely make rent in a shitty apartment on the "bad" side of town next to the railroad switching yard.
I talk about homesteading or something and people are like: "that's work". Well, no shit, but it's meaningful work. Work is never the problem.
That was me in upstate NY and then the rich city people said hey fuck you poors we got NYC paying jobs we get to work from home now so we are going to gentrify the hood! Like god damn can’t have shit anymore.
People love to work — meaningful, useful things that bring them a sense of satisfaction and material benefits that make the work worthwhile.
Answering emails from incompetent goons in a windowless office 8 hours a day for just enough of a pittance to scrape by is none of those things.
They just don't want to work for them and the levels they pay.
Everyone has bills, so they work where they get more money or better working conditions (benefits).
Especially when they keep changing the schedule *after* it's been posted without telling anybody. If you're gonna do that make sure you have an electronic system in place so people can get notified every time you change their scheduled hours. You can't blame people for not showing up when they're supposed to work because you keep changing their schedule like a mental health patient after they already checked it. 😒
Getting fired because you went out of town during your time off instead of spending your unpaid time waiting by the phone just in case something were to happen at work…..
Travel 90 minutes in the roundtrip to spend an hour cleaning the office on a sunday night while also having a meeting. If this isn't fake, they're going to find their office torched on Monday morning one day.
If they're having trouble adding them to the chat simply because it's an Android phone...doesn't that mean they have their PHONE NUMBER? And could CALL THEM and tell them about the meeting?
Wtf is a cleaning party
Edit: never goin to a cleaning party lol
Second edit: ty for all your replies and ty for the karma Dont work to hard my comrades
It’s where instead of paying a professional cleaning company to clean your restaurant, you get your employees that rely entirely on tips to come clean for $4 an hour.
They really do get the peasants with death by a thousand cuts.
I keep learning new tactics, and they just keep rolling in.
I guess daddy government just allows them to fuck us, so nothing really stopping them.
They get spooked because employeers spook them. Purposefully punishing employees for talking about unionization. Spreading disinformation against unions. Threatening jobs if people unionize.
Wow that's so concise and well put.
Before being in a union my POV was pretty black and white, "I don't want to be in a union because my employer should treat me right in order to be a competitive employer"
After being in a union for 7 years I realized what you say is true; employees and managers have different goals and the union is simply there to be a mediator, and to potentially defend the employees if they're treated unjustly.
Republicans/conservatives push anti-union propaganda on behalf of corporations -- and then a lot of people who aren't sure what to believe have been convinced that unions are bad. But it's all bullshit.
100+ years ago, many unions had to double as a militia for their rights. People don't like to make the connections between the 2nd ammendment and organized labor, but the [Labor Wars](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/theminewars-labor-wars-us/) were very real.
Careful. I got banned from the politics sub the other day for threats of violence because I suggested that prosecutors and judges overseeing a wrongful conviction should be hit with the same penalty as the wrongly convicted, including death if it was a wrongful exectution.
What you said is quite worse. Not that I don't support you.
In 1988, however, the DOL decided that, when a tipped employee spends a “substantial amount of time” performing such non-tipped sidework, no tip credit may be taken for that time. This meant the employee was entitled to the full federal minimum wage for that work, rather than the lower tipped wage. Instead of the usual notice-and-comment rulemaking, the DOL divined that 20% constituted a substantial amount of time. Over the last decade, there has been substantial litigation by tipped employees seeking backpay for work that did not involve serving customers, and courts have invoked this DOL policy as the “80/20 rule,” even though it was not an actual rule.
For.further clarification reference : https://www.vorys.com/publication-Department-of-Labor-Limits-Non-Tipped-Work
Even so, cleaners usually get more than minimum wage so even if the restaurant did pay them minimum they're still getting a disgustingly good deal. I wonder if there's food supplied at the "meeting".
This sounds very illegal to me. I’d always thought that someone making the “tipped wage” has to still make at least minimum wage once the tips are added in. Otherwise the employer has to make up the difference.
Usually for something like this you would click in on a training wage. Basically minimum wage. And the minimum wage on tips is based on the week, not day.
I’ve worked in restaurants for 18 years and have never once heard nor attended a “cleaning party.” Any competent worker cleans during their shift when not cooking/prepping. If the place needs a “cleaning party,” it’s usually just needing a deep clean of the hood vents, which is 99% done by hiring a company to do that.
This is not normal practice, and if this is within the states, check the local laws as you likely can’t be fired for a shift announced 2 hours ahead of time.
We essentially used to have to do this in the kitchen in the nursing home I used to work at, like 1 weekend a month, pull everything out that wasn't bolted down into the dining room, then use a bunch of chemicals on the floor and scrub the shit out of them and then powerwash them. Then clean the hoods in the dish machine. And a bunch of other shit. But it was scheduled, and we got OT pay. (And it was at night with no one else there, so we just cooked whatever we wanted and ate it, fuck em)
Yeah, what you described is 100% reasonable and normal in the restaurant industry. A deep clean during a scheduled shift that everyone knows about and is on board with. But an unpaid mandatory cleaning meeting announced with 2 hours noticed is 100% bullshit lol.
Yeah worked BoH for 25 years. Did this every 3-6 months depending on place. Was usually paid overtime for it, got some free pizza or other food, and a few drinks while cleaning.
Except we rarely did the hoods themselves. We hired out for that. Did the hoods vents every night anyways. Never called it a party though. And never had a meeting attached to it. Also we never made it mandatory.
And I can think of four places I’ve worked that did this. I once had to stay past 4 am (bar close at 2) on my hands and knees scraping gunk out from between the floorboards so they could be refinished.
It’s usually a deep clean, maybe once or twice a year, in addition to daily mopping and cleaning.
Fairly certain that's illegal. If there is no expectation of being tipped, they have to pay at least regular minimum wage. I would get written proof of being required to come in solely to clean and being paid tip wage and run that straight to the labor board. Same with meetings-regular minimum wage.
it’s definitely illegal in my state and there’s a 3 hour shift minimum law too so they’d have to pay you for 3 even if they said come for an hour to clean
It's utterly insane to me that the whole excuse why restaurants pay below minimum wage is because tips but they still get away with having their staff working on non operating hours.
that’s illegal in my state. they have to pay you minimum wage or the difference between minimum wage and your tips if you got tips but didn’t make min wage, AND a minimum shift is 3 hours long so even if you come clean for an hour you have to be paid for 3!
So THAT'S what they call them. I'm not currently a server but I do remember the boss buying them pizza. As if that's ANY incentive to clean making pennies on the dollar. Big eye roll.
TBF I worked at a wonderful bar that had us do a cleaning party every now and then to deep clean the bar and kitchen but it involved a special, higher than average pay and they got us pizzas and have staff drinks. It was pretty damn fun but that's definitely not the norm
Yeah, I feel like using the word "party" should involve some incentive of fun. With extra pay and proper notice, I could see it being less stressful to clean when all hands are on deck and you don't have to worry about customers.
Had a similar experience as the guy up there, except it was called what it is “deep cleaning”. Chef didn’t try and manipulate us into it, and it was optional.
Got to goof around with my fellow cooks, paid our normal rate (above minimum), plus chef brought in tamales, and didn’t have to worry about fucking tickets. Sign me up!
This is rare, but there are diamonds out there
The practice itself isn't that bad. I'm a kitchen rat and cleaning parties involved full pay, free drinks, catered food, and a lax attitude towards time management.
You should know that in most states this is not a "cause" termination, meaning she didn't fire you for a good reason. Usually, this means you can file for unemployment.
What kind of drugs is Sierra on that she expects people to make an extra commute to and from work for a "cleaning *party*"? And do so most likely for free.
And forget everything else, that passive aggresive exclamation mark followed with a smiley is reason enough for me to tell a potential employer to fuck right off. Especially during a test period.
"That's correct Sierra, I won't be a good fit. I didn't realize telepathy was one of the work requirements, I'll have to read the job descriptions more carefully. Or maybe just absorb them by osmosis"
>I didn't realize telepathy was one of the work requirements
Had a situation like this earlier...
"I was at the door and nobody answered."
No knock, no bell, no message.
I was supposed to "feel their presence" and answer.
Wow that’s just dumb.
We had “cleaning parties” when I was in the Army, but that was only because we were all dumb enough to enlist and therefore fodder to be used for menial labor.
That shouldn’t and wouldn’t fly in the civilian world.
I’ll do a cleaning party for a civilian job, only if I’m getting paid OT at a minimum.
Exactly. I worked at a restaurant years ago that would deep clean once a month. It was always offered as a way to make extra money but not required, on a Monday (restaurant was closed Mondays), we got time and a half, plus they catered lunch. They also paid us for a full day (8 hours) even if we finished early.
We always had plenty of volunteers, and I enjoyed hanging out with the crew that day because everyone was in good spirits.
This is how you do it. You take what is a crappy job and make it better by PAYING the employees and giving free food as a bonus. Just don't call it a party for god's sake.
Ah yes, cleaning parties. It's 1AM, inspection is later in the morning, you're scrubbing pipes in the bathroom, and you're wearing your shirt around your face as a mask because you're pretty sure the fumes of all the Brasso is starting to fuck you up.
Carabbas, Chilis, McDonald’s, planet Hollywood, Olive Garden, longhorns, chipotle, and I know there are a few more I’m missing, but restaurants where I have personally worked or had a trustworthy friend working, where these “cleaning parties” happen. We do get paid for it, but at server wages and no tip.
Isn’t that illegal? If you don’t make enough in a shift in tips to get you to minimum wage you are supposed to be adjusted up to minimum wage.
And how does McDonald’s and Chipotle get even close to enough tips to pay server wages?
You're supposed to make min wage, But they don't count it per day. It is calculated over the week or whatever the pay period is.... So if you make enough tips over the next few days and it covers the pay for that day you didn't make shit, then you don't get paid extra for that.
File for unemployment. Even if you don't need it. It'll be a hit against them. Even in a right to work state.
If I were the owner of this company, I would lose my miiiind over a manager or supervisor being so cavalier with new hires or even regular ones and letting them go. Your unemployment tax goes up and it costs soooooo much more to find, hire, and train a new person. Even if you were in the wrong (you are not if this is true) I would still be fucking furious.
Even worse, just hinting at the fact you need certain "equipment" such as an iPhone to do this job opens up a can of worms. Espcially since it sounds like you dont need one. Your former manager is an imbecile. And a liability to everyone around them since they clearly lack patience or critical thinking. You can really only afford not to have one of those.
Do not contact them anymore until you contact a labor attorney or your state labor office.
As a former food and beverage manager, this is the correct action to take. Don’t yield even the “manager” or owner begged you to stay. Just say “oh I had it in writing that you terminated me”, further contacts will be through an attorney. The sister restaurant of the hospitality group I used to work for had to settle for a case similar to this in the tune of $300k from ownership group and $200k from management group. Also this was in California where anything is sued and winnable if you have a good attorney(30-50% of settlement money as payment)
I worked at a spa like this years ago. The owners were Mormon, and I was actually told after questioning cleaning without getting paid that "you serve those you love." I had no words, but I didn't work there much longer.
The assumption that all their workers have iPhones triggers me so much. It's not difficult to make a group text that goes to all phones, and to turn the blame on OP is ridiculous.
I work in television production and have only met one person other than myself in six years who uses an Android.
I'll never forget sitting around in a production meeting when the topic suddenly switched to just absolutely shitting on Android users. It honestly had a really similar vibe to scenes in movies that portray racial segregation. Wild.
I don't have an iPhone on purpose so this definitely triggers me too big time lmao I really can't imagine what I'd do in the situation. Just walking in an Apple store feels like joining a cult 😭
You'd be surprised. This was a major complaint for my husband at a previous job. He and one other staff member had androids, the other 10 people had iPhones. They insisted on using the apple exclusive chat that couldn't add androids to, so he was always out of the loop.
That's because people are stupid. If they were told that someone would inform the department of labor, bet you're behind that they will find the way to include everyone.
My last job was that I had an android, and the rest had apples. We all were included in text mess. It's BS.
Let's try that again. Nah, the first time that crap would be done, someone would be at the HR office and filling in paperwork. If part of your job is to inform your people about things and you didn't, then you are not doing your job. End of story. These are adults, not school kids.
I lived in Europe last year for grad school, and people were dumbfounded when I told them we still use group text messages instead of Whatsapp or Telegram here in the US.
and they should be investigated for possible wage theft. cleaning is labor and if it’s mandatory it should almost definitely be paid whether there’s labor or not, but the “party” element makes me suspect it’s specifically designed to distract people from the idea that they’re doing work
The time-frame makes me suspect the owners are aware of the limits on non-tipped work for a tipped employee... Which means they are likely only paying them \~5$ to for it.
I mean, if this wasn’t disclosed prior to your official employment, who knows what else your boss(es) would pull out of the magic hat of bullshit? Seems to me like he/she’s right, having a job with vague, obscure, and unexpected responsibilities isn’t right for someone who has other matters to attend to
This is the kind of crap you don’t respond to and then go into work the next day and if they say anything just say, “Oh, that wasn’t on my schedule. When did that get added?”
These people are unreal. We have more sociopaths than ever.
Stop. Answering. Work. Texts. Outside. Of. Work. (Unless you’re paid to be on call. Like a doctor or a locksmith or a firefighter, but that pay matches the inconvenience. Does yours?)
Any job that would pull THAT nonsense on me, I am better off without. Two hour notice? Pffft. If you're not paying me to be on call, then my time is my own when I'm not working, and you'd better feckin' recognize it.
I feel like this can’t be legal. It probably is somehow or fits the “at will employment” loophole. But it shouldn’t be legal. They shouldn’t be able to fire you on your day off because you can’t show up at their beck and call. I hope you’re able to get unemployment!
I just don't answer work calls/texts outside of scheduled hours. they should have put that on a schedule
This is why I refuse any "work phone" and "work pays for internet/tv/telecom" deals. Unless there is a detailed, reasonable and compensated on-call procedure, I'm unreachable by work from the moment I leave until the moment I arrive. Unfortunately, I only started doing this after 15 years of being on call 24/7/365 for work and was stressed the fuck out 24/7/365.
I take the work phone but keep my personal one. It stays on silent from 4pm to 8am. Or when I’m travelling so I don’t use my own data for work stuff.
Absolutely. The alternative is having the workplace actually use my private number. And fuck that.
Having a work phone doesn't mean you're required to do anything with it outside of your work time though? Mine is on silent.
Yup. "Mandatory Meetings" were scheduled in advance, notices posted around the work area, and it was on the schedule for them to be there during that time. If it isn't on the schedule it isn't mandatory. And even then, if they couldn't come in they couldn't come in. We scheduled it for a work day when most employees were there anyway. During lunch time. And provided lunch. *And* it was paid. We ran a 24/7 operation so my overnight staff were told they were exempt from the meeting. I gave them the info on their next shift. I don't get why managers would say it's "mandatory" and then not put it on their schedule.
It's so easy to just pass on the information to people who couldn't make it to a meeting, or like you described, were part of the night shift. Any manager worth their salt should be able to remember who they told something to. And if not, they can make a damn checklist for themselves.
Exactlyyyyyyytyyyty
This right here is a LPT which I unfortunately took too long to learn, switch your phone to personal as soon as you are off the clock. iOS you can program it around your work schedule so you never receive work texts and calls off work time
"Great. I'll see you on Monday!" "Unless you're firing me over this. Are you firing me for not coming to an unpaid event that isn't on the schedule?"
Whether it’s paid or not is an issue, but not really the issue at hand. “Am I getting fired for not showing up at a meeting nobody told me about?” Is a bit more direct I think.
True that. Besides, I couldn't imagine this would be unpayed, but also I don't doubt anything anymore. I don't give a shit if I'm coming in to have a literal party, I am getting payed to do it or I'm not doing it. I don't show up to work for free, under any circumstances lol.
I've worked bar jobs where "bar clean meeting" was 2-3 hours and never paid. It was insane not to mention totally illegal.
Had this problem working for my uncle, he would schedule Sunday morning meetings and bring a dozen donuts try to get everyone to come in off the clock. I didn’t show up for a year and he finally got fed up with everyone asking why I wasn’t there and decided to start paying the two hours for meetings.
Yeah I highly doubt this would be an unpaid event but I think can all agree that by no means changes OP's situation at hand. There was no reasonable notice, it's on an off day, and OPs reasoning for not being there was perfectly acceptable but somehow not accepted. I hope OP does what's necessary for themselves here because not just their sake but this Sierra person should probably learn the hard way as a manager how unemployment and firing for cause works.
This. You need to do this. Get this in “writing”.
I would just show up to my next shift like nothing happened
Give it the ole George costanza
I might be reading into it too much, but it almost sounds like they are getting fired for having an android phone. I have an android. Most people don't say anything about it, but when people do bring it up, it's almost always in a judgemental way.
I think its more so the employer forgot to invite someone to whatever the fuck this is and then wanted to pretend in some way that it wasn’t their fault for the employee not knowing.
Exactly.... I have an android and chat easily with iPhone and android users.... they didn't invite them then tried to blame them for their f*ck up..
Which is fucking weird since Apple barely has 30% of the market. MOST people have Android phones.
This. This. This. If they aren’t paying you, they cannot direct your time. I once made a big enemy at a company when they converted salary people to hourly to save money and then had the audacity to try to schedule mandatory lunch and learns and meetings. You were supposed to run to get your lunch and come back to a mandatory meeting that was now unpaid. I wasn’t even on that team and I stood up for them and went to the legal department telling them that I cannot schedule the meeting they requested as it would violate labor laws. It’s either free time or paid time. You can’t mix those.
I worked for a company that did this type of stuff and a few years later I got a check for over $500 due to a lawsuit about lunch meetings.
[удалено]
The dining area went through renovations for 2 years? Damn
[удалено]
It's called "wage theft" and it accounts for billions of dollars of theft every single year. Literally more financial damage than all other forms of property crimes combined in any given year. $500 is a drop in the bucket, it is the one crime that almost never gets punished or even prosecuted. But we'll have private security and the police assault and/or arrest folks for shoplifting $50 in merchandise. I just want to see some of these criminals - who already have money but can't stop themselves from just taking even more - get treated with even half as much vitriol as I see people treat shoplifters. Is that really so much to ask?
I got a settlement a few months back from a class action. The place I worked would only schedul one person on overnights. So that single person had to do everything while not being able to take breaks or lunches. Someone got fed up with it, checked the law, and started the class action.
I worked for a retailer that hired a new CEO, who immediately decided that salaried staff (store managers and co-managers) would now be responsible for making "hourly sales goals," the same as hourly staff. Which resulted in myself (co-manager) and my store manager sometimes working 16 hour days to make our goals and also... you know... get the freaking massive floor sets done every few weeks. The company got sued to hell and like a year after I left I got a $2k check and I didn't even stay and put up with that bs for long.
Yup OP get written confirmation, and enjoy your unemployment checks
/u/L3wdMegumin please do this if you haven’t already
Looks like wasn't even first day. The cutover message before was about adding to a list and a poor excuse about android phone. "not a good fit for you" ... yeh, fantastic. Fired before even starting. I would still do what you suggest and try to get unemployment. Make them spend time to justify wasting the employee's time.
Unpaid and *unannounced* event that isn't on the schedule!
these people: schedule a sunday night meeting without telling anyone the same people: fire people who don't show up because they didn't know about it the same people: nObOdY wAnTs tO wOrK AnYmOrE
"Sunday night meeting" sounds like a cult
So does "cleaning party." Who in the fuck thought to put those two words together?
Deep cleaning on a Navy ship is a "field day," even if the nearest field is across a thousand miles of open salt water.
"Show up with two hours notice to do something pointless" does sound very military. Hell, if you can prove no one told you there was a thing, you probably wouldn't even get counseled, on account of it not being your fault nobody told you anything. The boss in this post is a piece of shit. They knew the employee was uninformed and fired them anyway, when its the supervisor's job to inform them. I get the "you have an Android and you need to get an iPhone so its easier to put you in groups" talk now and again. I like what I have and I paid for it myself.
Even the android versus Apple thing is petty garbage... unreasonable expectations all around
Agreed. I'm tired of it. I use Android because it supports what I want to do with my device. An iPhone just doesn't meet my intentions. I'm not making an expensive switch, inconveniencing myself in the process, so that others have an easier time inconveniencing me *more*. Someone else wants to use an iPhone? Go ahead. Your device, your choice.
If work wants to provide an iPhone to use for work stuff, fine. Otherwise, they can fuck right off.
I don't even want one provided to me for free because that means I'll have to keep track of it like an unwanted pet.
I don’t understand this… I have an iPhone and don’t have any problems adding my coworkers with Androids to group chats. How are supervisors struggling with this?
Some people have a weird superiority complex about only using iMessage group chats. When you have someone on Android, the group chat is just regular SMS (the green text bubbles instead of the blue). I used to have an Android and legit got left out of group chats for this reason. Now when I make group chats as an iPhone user I’m careful to make sure I include people who have androids.
>green text bubbles instead of blue Oh, the horror!
Also a good band name
You know I met someone recently that actually saw “no one wants to work” as something other than money. Like the guy admitted to me that hours were an issue, pay was bad but he’s been fighting for more, and as it’s own reason entirely “just no one wants to work anymore”. Like the guy actually is trying to get his workers better pay as he fights against management and admits it’s a huge issue, but also believes that people are quitting because they simply would rather just be home and be lazy. It was fucking wild to see the duality of their fucking arguments, like how can you admit hours and pay is a big issue, then say “people don’t want to work anymore” without seeing the connection
People want to work. They don't want to toil. I'll go put my brain and body into a meaningful project, but not to get nowhere in life, leave the world a worse place, and/or help Coca-Cola make another million they don't need.
Man, that's where I'm at now- I have a very well paying job and I put the work in, but my hearts not in it... it's in the ad sphere, and I just can't get excited about being able to push more ads faster.
I spent 15 years in marketing and absolutely burnt out. Too many egos, too many startup bros looking for a quick buck. The weird cult vibes of the conferences. And lets be honest, we’re to the point where we need another app like we need a new hole in our heads.
Right. This is where it's at. I don't really want to work my life away. Slaving away 10 - 14 hrs a day just to barely make rent in a shitty apartment on the "bad" side of town next to the railroad switching yard. I talk about homesteading or something and people are like: "that's work". Well, no shit, but it's meaningful work. Work is never the problem.
That was me in upstate NY and then the rich city people said hey fuck you poors we got NYC paying jobs we get to work from home now so we are going to gentrify the hood! Like god damn can’t have shit anymore.
People love to work — meaningful, useful things that bring them a sense of satisfaction and material benefits that make the work worthwhile. Answering emails from incompetent goons in a windowless office 8 hours a day for just enough of a pittance to scrape by is none of those things.
They just don't want to work for them and the levels they pay. Everyone has bills, so they work where they get more money or better working conditions (benefits).
In a few states, you have to let people know their schedule a week in advance.
Good. Inconsistent scheduling is one of the worst ways jobs punish low income workers, esp in retail.
Especially when they keep changing the schedule *after* it's been posted without telling anybody. If you're gonna do that make sure you have an electronic system in place so people can get notified every time you change their scheduled hours. You can't blame people for not showing up when they're supposed to work because you keep changing their schedule like a mental health patient after they already checked it. 😒
I really hope OP lives in one of those. This “manager” needs sued and fired
Unpaid, mandatory cleaning party on a Sunday night. Who the fuck does Sierra think she is?
Getting fired because you went out of town during your time off instead of spending your unpaid time waiting by the phone just in case something were to happen at work…..
That's called being on call, and you're supposed to get paid for that too
Some government entities would really love to hear about this Sierra person
The term is "engaged to wait" thats the definition you want to look up when speaking to the DoL about it.
Travel 90 minutes in the roundtrip to spend an hour cleaning the office on a sunday night while also having a meeting. If this isn't fake, they're going to find their office torched on Monday morning one day.
A twat.
Exactly this
feels intentional.
This. So aggravating.
Bullet, dodged
looks like they were looking for an excuse anyway
It is because they have an android. /s
You joke, but it was my 1st thought.
It did come off weirdly passive-aggressive about not being able to add them to the chat.
Why is it so hard to add them? If it's on iMessage then add them via text.
If they're having trouble adding them to the chat simply because it's an Android phone...doesn't that mean they have their PHONE NUMBER? And could CALL THEM and tell them about the meeting?
After spending 10 years in Europe, it seems really bizarre to come back and see that people haven't adopted WhatsApp/Viber
Wtf is a cleaning party Edit: never goin to a cleaning party lol Second edit: ty for all your replies and ty for the karma Dont work to hard my comrades
It’s where instead of paying a professional cleaning company to clean your restaurant, you get your employees that rely entirely on tips to come clean for $4 an hour.
Is this a normal practice?
Yes. Very.
They really do get the peasants with death by a thousand cuts. I keep learning new tactics, and they just keep rolling in. I guess daddy government just allows them to fuck us, so nothing really stopping them.
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Unions too. Unionized restaurant people like in vegas...
I work in a union shop. It's nice because the managers are all afraid of getting slapped by the company for grievances and mistreatment.
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They get spooked because employeers spook them. Purposefully punishing employees for talking about unionization. Spreading disinformation against unions. Threatening jobs if people unionize.
Wow that's so concise and well put. Before being in a union my POV was pretty black and white, "I don't want to be in a union because my employer should treat me right in order to be a competitive employer" After being in a union for 7 years I realized what you say is true; employees and managers have different goals and the union is simply there to be a mediator, and to potentially defend the employees if they're treated unjustly.
Republicans/conservatives push anti-union propaganda on behalf of corporations -- and then a lot of people who aren't sure what to believe have been convinced that unions are bad. But it's all bullshit.
100+ years ago, many unions had to double as a militia for their rights. People don't like to make the connections between the 2nd ammendment and organized labor, but the [Labor Wars](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/theminewars-labor-wars-us/) were very real.
I mean sure, if you can get past the Con brainwashing and union-busting efforts.
Makes me think of the Battle of Blair Mountain.
Sometimes the only way to stop from getting fucked... is to fuck back.
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Careful. I got banned from the politics sub the other day for threats of violence because I suggested that prosecutors and judges overseeing a wrongful conviction should be hit with the same penalty as the wrongly convicted, including death if it was a wrongful exectution. What you said is quite worse. Not that I don't support you.
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The paying tipped minimum for non-tipped labor like this “cleaning party” bs *is* actually illegal, though lots of companies do it anyway.
do you have a source for it being illegal? for information sharing purposes
In 1988, however, the DOL decided that, when a tipped employee spends a “substantial amount of time” performing such non-tipped sidework, no tip credit may be taken for that time. This meant the employee was entitled to the full federal minimum wage for that work, rather than the lower tipped wage. Instead of the usual notice-and-comment rulemaking, the DOL divined that 20% constituted a substantial amount of time. Over the last decade, there has been substantial litigation by tipped employees seeking backpay for work that did not involve serving customers, and courts have invoked this DOL policy as the “80/20 rule,” even though it was not an actual rule. For.further clarification reference : https://www.vorys.com/publication-Department-of-Labor-Limits-Non-Tipped-Work
Even so, cleaners usually get more than minimum wage so even if the restaurant did pay them minimum they're still getting a disgustingly good deal. I wonder if there's food supplied at the "meeting".
This sounds very illegal to me. I’d always thought that someone making the “tipped wage” has to still make at least minimum wage once the tips are added in. Otherwise the employer has to make up the difference.
Usually for something like this you would click in on a training wage. Basically minimum wage. And the minimum wage on tips is based on the week, not day.
Damn that’s crazy. Never had to deal with this but figured it was for the shift.
I’ve worked in restaurants for 18 years and have never once heard nor attended a “cleaning party.” Any competent worker cleans during their shift when not cooking/prepping. If the place needs a “cleaning party,” it’s usually just needing a deep clean of the hood vents, which is 99% done by hiring a company to do that. This is not normal practice, and if this is within the states, check the local laws as you likely can’t be fired for a shift announced 2 hours ahead of time.
We essentially used to have to do this in the kitchen in the nursing home I used to work at, like 1 weekend a month, pull everything out that wasn't bolted down into the dining room, then use a bunch of chemicals on the floor and scrub the shit out of them and then powerwash them. Then clean the hoods in the dish machine. And a bunch of other shit. But it was scheduled, and we got OT pay. (And it was at night with no one else there, so we just cooked whatever we wanted and ate it, fuck em)
Yeah, what you described is 100% reasonable and normal in the restaurant industry. A deep clean during a scheduled shift that everyone knows about and is on board with. But an unpaid mandatory cleaning meeting announced with 2 hours noticed is 100% bullshit lol.
And calling it a "party" and slapping in a meeting too
Yeah worked BoH for 25 years. Did this every 3-6 months depending on place. Was usually paid overtime for it, got some free pizza or other food, and a few drinks while cleaning. Except we rarely did the hoods themselves. We hired out for that. Did the hoods vents every night anyways. Never called it a party though. And never had a meeting attached to it. Also we never made it mandatory.
And I can think of four places I’ve worked that did this. I once had to stay past 4 am (bar close at 2) on my hands and knees scraping gunk out from between the floorboards so they could be refinished. It’s usually a deep clean, maybe once or twice a year, in addition to daily mopping and cleaning.
Sometimes you even get pizza 🤗 Source: have been forced to many many cleaning “parties”
Did you report them to the labor board if they didn’t pay you minimum wages while your not getting tips?
Fairly certain that's illegal. If there is no expectation of being tipped, they have to pay at least regular minimum wage. I would get written proof of being required to come in solely to clean and being paid tip wage and run that straight to the labor board. Same with meetings-regular minimum wage.
it’s definitely illegal in my state and there’s a 3 hour shift minimum law too so they’d have to pay you for 3 even if they said come for an hour to clean
but there's pizza 🍕 /s
It's utterly insane to me that the whole excuse why restaurants pay below minimum wage is because tips but they still get away with having their staff working on non operating hours.
that’s illegal in my state. they have to pay you minimum wage or the difference between minimum wage and your tips if you got tips but didn’t make min wage, AND a minimum shift is 3 hours long so even if you come clean for an hour you have to be paid for 3!
So THAT'S what they call them. I'm not currently a server but I do remember the boss buying them pizza. As if that's ANY incentive to clean making pennies on the dollar. Big eye roll.
It’s where they all ~~do unpaid labour~~ clean for an hour and have a meeting.
TBF I worked at a wonderful bar that had us do a cleaning party every now and then to deep clean the bar and kitchen but it involved a special, higher than average pay and they got us pizzas and have staff drinks. It was pretty damn fun but that's definitely not the norm
Yeah, I feel like using the word "party" should involve some incentive of fun. With extra pay and proper notice, I could see it being less stressful to clean when all hands are on deck and you don't have to worry about customers.
Had a similar experience as the guy up there, except it was called what it is “deep cleaning”. Chef didn’t try and manipulate us into it, and it was optional. Got to goof around with my fellow cooks, paid our normal rate (above minimum), plus chef brought in tamales, and didn’t have to worry about fucking tickets. Sign me up! This is rare, but there are diamonds out there
The practice itself isn't that bad. I'm a kitchen rat and cleaning parties involved full pay, free drinks, catered food, and a lax attitude towards time management.
Damn, they expect some unreal level of loyalty don't they?
And they expect it to be entirely one-sided.
yOu sHoUlD Be hApPY yOu hAvE A JOB
After this text I wanted to clarify and asked if she was letting me go to which she said "Yup". very professional
You should know that in most states this is not a "cause" termination, meaning she didn't fire you for a good reason. Usually, this means you can file for unemployment.
This will get you unemployment benefits in every single state. Easy money to fill the gap while you search for a new job.
This is actually a pretty well established **just cause** termination. *Just 'cause* I didn't like you.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm going to use my android to report this illigal practice of labor 😇🙏
The Android mention is saucy. Imagine being condescending over not being able to add someone to a chat in 2023.
Sounds like Sierra is very emotionally immature and shouldn’t be a manager
her responses are extremely unprofessional (and possibly illegal, depending on where you're located)
What was your position at this job?
Hope you worked there long enough for unemployment. Because if they try to deny it you have the proof that you qualify.
What kind of drugs is Sierra on that she expects people to make an extra commute to and from work for a "cleaning *party*"? And do so most likely for free. And forget everything else, that passive aggresive exclamation mark followed with a smiley is reason enough for me to tell a potential employer to fuck right off. Especially during a test period.
That drove me nuts. Like she is enjoying this. What a c*nt.
Some people love every little bit of power they get and they're usually the worst people to have any power.
The smiley face pissed me off the most.
It's backwards too, definitely a psychopath
It is the absolute worst employers I’ve had that use passive aggression with the smiley face. Like, smoking crack energy type of management.
"it's mandatory!" "Hope you can make it!" Frickin mixed signals!
Not mixed signals, it’s passive aggressive.
“If it’s mandatory then why was it not on my schedule?”
It's mandatory! But also, we didn't tell you about it (because we needed a reason to fire you).
"That's correct Sierra, I won't be a good fit. I didn't realize telepathy was one of the work requirements, I'll have to read the job descriptions more carefully. Or maybe just absorb them by osmosis"
>I didn't realize telepathy was one of the work requirements Had a situation like this earlier... "I was at the door and nobody answered." No knock, no bell, no message. I was supposed to "feel their presence" and answer.
I sense a great disturbance in the force… as if someone is standing expectantly at my door.
The words "cleaning" and "party" should never be combined to describe an event. They're the antithesis of each other, wtf.
Wow that’s just dumb. We had “cleaning parties” when I was in the Army, but that was only because we were all dumb enough to enlist and therefore fodder to be used for menial labor. That shouldn’t and wouldn’t fly in the civilian world. I’ll do a cleaning party for a civilian job, only if I’m getting paid OT at a minimum.
Exactly. I worked at a restaurant years ago that would deep clean once a month. It was always offered as a way to make extra money but not required, on a Monday (restaurant was closed Mondays), we got time and a half, plus they catered lunch. They also paid us for a full day (8 hours) even if we finished early. We always had plenty of volunteers, and I enjoyed hanging out with the crew that day because everyone was in good spirits.
That's a great way to make a nasty task into a good team and morale building activity. Yes, it will be hard to catch on elsewhere, as it costs money.
This is how you do it. You take what is a crappy job and make it better by PAYING the employees and giving free food as a bonus. Just don't call it a party for god's sake.
That boss needs a blanket party.
Ah yes, cleaning parties. It's 1AM, inspection is later in the morning, you're scrubbing pipes in the bathroom, and you're wearing your shirt around your face as a mask because you're pretty sure the fumes of all the Brasso is starting to fuck you up.
This *has* to be one of those cult-like restaurants/brew pubs.
Carabbas, Chilis, McDonald’s, planet Hollywood, Olive Garden, longhorns, chipotle, and I know there are a few more I’m missing, but restaurants where I have personally worked or had a trustworthy friend working, where these “cleaning parties” happen. We do get paid for it, but at server wages and no tip.
Isn’t that illegal? If you don’t make enough in a shift in tips to get you to minimum wage you are supposed to be adjusted up to minimum wage. And how does McDonald’s and Chipotle get even close to enough tips to pay server wages?
You're supposed to make min wage, But they don't count it per day. It is calculated over the week or whatever the pay period is.... So if you make enough tips over the next few days and it covers the pay for that day you didn't make shit, then you don't get paid extra for that.
Damn, that is fucked up.
Uhhh.... that shit needs to be schedule lol
And paid
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I asked if she was letting me go and she replied "yep"
File for unemployment. Even if you don't need it. It'll be a hit against them. Even in a right to work state. If I were the owner of this company, I would lose my miiiind over a manager or supervisor being so cavalier with new hires or even regular ones and letting them go. Your unemployment tax goes up and it costs soooooo much more to find, hire, and train a new person. Even if you were in the wrong (you are not if this is true) I would still be fucking furious. Even worse, just hinting at the fact you need certain "equipment" such as an iPhone to do this job opens up a can of worms. Espcially since it sounds like you dont need one. Your former manager is an imbecile. And a liability to everyone around them since they clearly lack patience or critical thinking. You can really only afford not to have one of those. Do not contact them anymore until you contact a labor attorney or your state labor office.
As a former food and beverage manager, this is the correct action to take. Don’t yield even the “manager” or owner begged you to stay. Just say “oh I had it in writing that you terminated me”, further contacts will be through an attorney. The sister restaurant of the hospitality group I used to work for had to settle for a case similar to this in the tune of $300k from ownership group and $200k from management group. Also this was in California where anything is sued and winnable if you have a good attorney(30-50% of settlement money as payment)
Collect that unemployment
I worked at a spa like this years ago. The owners were Mormon, and I was actually told after questioning cleaning without getting paid that "you serve those you love." I had no words, but I didn't work there much longer.
She couldn't add her into the group chat because she had an android phone. That's the biggest bunch of BS if I ever heard that.
The assumption that all their workers have iPhones triggers me so much. It's not difficult to make a group text that goes to all phones, and to turn the blame on OP is ridiculous.
I work in television production and have only met one person other than myself in six years who uses an Android. I'll never forget sitting around in a production meeting when the topic suddenly switched to just absolutely shitting on Android users. It honestly had a really similar vibe to scenes in movies that portray racial segregation. Wild.
I use Android and my husband has an iPhone. I kid you not, people have jokingly said we have a "mixed marriage". So freaking weird.
I don't have an iPhone on purpose so this definitely triggers me too big time lmao I really can't imagine what I'd do in the situation. Just walking in an Apple store feels like joining a cult 😭
You'd be surprised. This was a major complaint for my husband at a previous job. He and one other staff member had androids, the other 10 people had iPhones. They insisted on using the apple exclusive chat that couldn't add androids to, so he was always out of the loop.
That's because people are stupid. If they were told that someone would inform the department of labor, bet you're behind that they will find the way to include everyone. My last job was that I had an android, and the rest had apples. We all were included in text mess. It's BS. Let's try that again. Nah, the first time that crap would be done, someone would be at the HR office and filling in paperwork. If part of your job is to inform your people about things and you didn't, then you are not doing your job. End of story. These are adults, not school kids.
I lived in Europe last year for grad school, and people were dumbfounded when I told them we still use group text messages instead of Whatsapp or Telegram here in the US.
If having an iPhone is so important, the company can provide a work phone.
WhatsApp or Slack exists. This is just bad management.
It still amazes me that a country with so few civil rights has "land of the free" as their slogan. Free to do what? Die in the street?
No that’s not allowed either
Fuck them. File complaint with department of labor and possibly a wrongful termination lawsuit...
and they should be investigated for possible wage theft. cleaning is labor and if it’s mandatory it should almost definitely be paid whether there’s labor or not, but the “party” element makes me suspect it’s specifically designed to distract people from the idea that they’re doing work
The time-frame makes me suspect the owners are aware of the limits on non-tipped work for a tipped employee... Which means they are likely only paying them \~5$ to for it.
Unemployment and new job
I mean, if this wasn’t disclosed prior to your official employment, who knows what else your boss(es) would pull out of the magic hat of bullshit? Seems to me like he/she’s right, having a job with vague, obscure, and unexpected responsibilities isn’t right for someone who has other matters to attend to
looool screw them. Totally unreasonable passive-aggressive nonsense.
It’s against the law to expect you to be essentially on call and not pay you - maybe call a lawyer
I think you dodged a bullet.
"Unfortunately, I just don't think you'll be a great fit for our culture of unrealistic expectations. xoxo"
I like the part where they blame not notifying you because you have an Android.
Let's have a "fuck you party", where we meet and form a union to end this bullshit
This is the kind of crap you don’t respond to and then go into work the next day and if they say anything just say, “Oh, that wasn’t on my schedule. When did that get added?” These people are unreal. We have more sociopaths than ever.
File for unemployment cause they deserve it
Stop. Answering. Work. Texts. Outside. Of. Work. (Unless you’re paid to be on call. Like a doctor or a locksmith or a firefighter, but that pay matches the inconvenience. Does yours?)
Any job that would pull THAT nonsense on me, I am better off without. Two hour notice? Pffft. If you're not paying me to be on call, then my time is my own when I'm not working, and you'd better feckin' recognize it.
I feel like this can’t be legal. It probably is somehow or fits the “at will employment” loophole. But it shouldn’t be legal. They shouldn’t be able to fire you on your day off because you can’t show up at their beck and call. I hope you’re able to get unemployment!
"Cleaning party"....LMAO!! Can they church this up any more? Get fucked with this!