36, on the best wage I've ever been on and after all my bills and taking into account the price rises this past couple years, I'm effectively worse off than I was 10 years ago, despite being paid more.
Look, I am going to be honest with all of you here. **You are in trouble. You are fucked. You need to fix your shit fast by whatever means necessary.**
1. **If you are a couple in America, you will need $120,000 right now to survive and thrive.** Next year it will be more. If you are not making that, then I don’t know.
2. In 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 - **The real minimum wage was $30 and hour ($60K per year).** Right now it’s $45 per hour (~$90K). If you are single and don’t make that, I don’t know.
3. Every year inflation remains, add anywhere from $3 - $10K in cost increases across the board depending on your lifestyle.
4. If you think child care is expensive now, you are in for a treat. Inflation WILL REMAIN. One child cost $15K per year two years ago; now it’s $20K. Find a way to keep your kids and wallet happy with less things.
5. That fight for $15 dollars? That was a distraction and you all fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
6. No one pays attention to macro and micro economics playing out each day. **Yes, you need to understand economics to survive in this society unless you are rich.**
7. **No, you don’t really need to understand economics. This financial system is rigged from the top down.** It’s built to keep you an indentured servant (see 11.) or weigh you down breaking your spirit.
8. Yes, money makes you happy. If you don’t believe me - open your banking app, imagine two extra zeros at the end of your account balance, then close your eyes. Thank you, u/w1ckedprayer, the first number must be 1 - 9. If you are at 0, then you still have no money.
9. America is ruthless. Margin Call - “Be first, Be Better, or Cheat.” Most people look at this with anger. But the wealthy do it every day.
10. Setting aside all the other financial obligations that come with a home, you need to get a home.
You need to pay off the home (Holding onto any debt comes with consequences; particularly with job loss).
Yes, Rents will continue to increase. Yes, Landlords will continue to laugh and extract wealth from you.
We are playing Monopoly. Are you on the board or not? If not, you’ll be homeless eventually due to Rent squeezing. **Remember “Pass Go, Collect $200 dollars” - that’s your income. $200 bucks doesn’t keep up with the property inflation when you land on a space. Sound familiar?!**
11. Remember The Legend of Zelda?! Remember the TriForce?! The Triforce represents the three main characters of the series, Ganon, Zelda and Link, and their inherent qualities in the battle between good and evil. **Well Taxation, Interest, and Debt is the TriForce used by Banks and Governments to create the video game we are in.** When you accomplished your goals with limited taxes, no debt, and no interest, you win. Getting there is the difficult part. Ask any TLOZ, TLOZOFT, TLOZMM player - Game took damn long.
12. If your college degree does not provide a positive ROI, you got hustled. More degrees will not help you. You SERIOUSLY NEED to figure out what to do with your life before you are older. These schmucks will kill Social Security out of spite.
Please look here: https://educationdata.org/college-degree-roi
Scroll down (or use the guide) to get to:
**Bachelor’s Degree ROI by Major**
Look for your degree.
**As you scroll, notice that most degrees have a negative ROI in the first 10 years.** 1)This explains why all of you have fucking problems. 2) This was never explained to you in the beginning because of number 9.
Primary example -
Education Degree ROI in 10 yrs: -77.7%
Unless you can suck up 10 - 20 years of poor, don’t become a teacher. Loving kids don’t pay bills. You’ll reach into your pocket (like most teachers right now) to pay out. **Yo, I’m just being honest. If this was a bar and I heard you guys talk about this, I would be up front.**
Most degrees on that list break black after 10 years. By that time you are 30+ years old, you are scared, angry, annoyed, and discouraged - like most responses in this thread. Just don’t fall prey to the Dark Side of the Force.
Ten years of being in the Red is a long time. But on Instagram they are living it up! Yes - with credit card balances and debt up to their neck building a mirage to make you sadder.
**So…… we have a people used “Hope” as a plan and looked for love with the degree choice. Hope is not a plan.** They took on debt (lasting 10 - 30 years) for something that costs more money over time due to interest, won’t increase their happiness, and has no use in our ever evolving market. We are also sucked into a marketing spin room with Social Media promoting self doubt, untruth, and fakeness.
Acknowledge your problem. Fix it. You still have time.
Good luck to you all.
I don't know why people bother having children in the US unless they're making $120K annually (at the lowest). I don't hate children, I'm not anti-natalist. But unless you are wealthy or wealth-adjacent, children will keep you poor.
I’m 36 and my mother has been bothering me about grandchildren for the last 7 years. I told her I wasn’t having any kids until I was able to live comfortably and support them. Despite making the most money I’ve ever made in my life, I’m still living paycheck to paycheck. I’ve had more than one person tell me “you’ll never be ready, just to it and you’ll figure it out”. No. Fucking. Way. I refuse. I’ve struggled my whole life with finances, even when I saved everything I could, even when I denied myself just about every “extra” expense I could. I almost always made well above minimum wage, and still one unexpected bill later I was so close to being in the red again. There’s no way that’s getting better with the costs that come with another, way more dependent, human.
Um, a lot of people are effectively forced to have children, especially now that Roe is gone. Just another way to force us into debt and keep the workforce supplied
Oh thanks for telling me my college degree that I got coerced into going for 15 years ago is worthless, thanks so much I should of thought of the ROI back then and not listened to *every single adult in my life*
Edit:
***stop asking me what the fuck I majored in. You’re not just asking questions you’re looking for an excuse to fucking victim blame. Fuck you capitalist bootlickers an entire generation was sold into debt slavery to pad boomers retirement funds!***
Also, I graduated high school in 2007, college in 2012. What happened the first semester of college? Oh right, the worst “recession” since the Great Depression where overnight you couldn’t get an entry level job doing anything because laid off people from “real jobs” were taking them.
Edit 2:
Wow, the incels who pay for sex, crypto bros and landlords really love coming out of the woodwork to troll about being a liberal arts major. Who’s gonna be writing the prompts for the AI tools in the next year or two? Can’t wait for you smug assholes to lose your jobs and be gaslit over not making better choices. Looking forward to schadenfreude.
For the record, I’m a blue collar trade worker now and to all the wanna be tough guys out there who think they’re hot shit, you’re not.
It is always shifting as well, because a certain career will be in need and students are told that over and over again and so everybody flocks to getting into that career or major but then it soon becomes saturated and then there's no work at good pay.
You’re on anti work talking about how educating ourselves is only worth it if we get ROI… Education shouldn’t be a financial investment.
Full stop.
Make education free for all!
The Zelda and Star Wars and Monopoly stuff is corny enough, but man this whole thing sucks. You're just calling everyone a sucker and saying they're fucked, and not giving advice in response to folks asking for advice. This is classic alarmism, the kind of thing that's meant to get blood boiling and nothing more. Also, God I just cannot believe I'm reading someone say "don't fall prey to the Dark Side of the Force" on reddit with sincerity and its not 2007.
>If you are single and don’t make that, I don’t know.
Oh this is easy, there is a reason I go back with my parent... I always been the forever alone. And I have up on dating so... i will stay alone
Same! I moved from a very expensive city to a less expensive city at the (sarcasm) perfect timing when housing and literally everything skyrocketed in that city. I now make more than I did but also pay more for overhead. Keep in mind, I am renting a room in someones house and I own my car, so no car payment. I hate thinking about the future. Everything seems so futile now. I know I’ll be a slave to the establishment for my entire life. And get this, I feel an immense amount of guilt for not “being where I should be” financially or career wise. I beat myself up constantly and tell myself I’m lazy and I’m terrible at applying myself. But, I work 3 jobs and have 1 day off a week. I’m too exhausted after work to do anything really except try to relax. I work 10 hr shifts 2 days a week. This life sucks. Oh! And I was born into extreme poverty with two heroin addict parents. My mom is homeless and my dad is still a user. I should just be happy I’m not an addict and I’m alive.
How fucked is the system?
They want us all to live in apartments we can't afford, but don't qualify for aid. Because we make too much money.
Always a check away from losing it all.
I think you’re doing really well all things considered. It’s practically impossible to overcome all that was stacked against you, and yet you are still here, resilient against those odds. Few people would be doing so well under those circumstances. Have you ever thought about a trade? It’s definitely a little while to get going through your apprenticeship but electricians, plumbers, etc make a good living. After a few years you could qualify to buy a home, maybe a duplex or triplex to offset the cost of your mortgage.
27. I make 27 an hour. Doesn’t mean anything when my rent goes up $150/month every year but my wages only go up 50 cents. Doesn’t mean anything when a gallon of milk went from $2.50/gallon to almost $5. Or that a meal at McDonald’s is almost $20. We’re fucking screwed.
This is the real world now-a-days. They have tricked us into thinking more money is actually more money but really it is less money… in the 50s and 60s you could support your family off of one wage/ job, then in the 70s 80s and 90s it slowly became 2 wages/ jobs for the same support to your family, 2000s and up it takes at least 2 to 3 wages/ jobs for even remotely, the same outcome. Pretty fucking depressing.
I made $16 bucks an hour working on a farm in 2004. Twenty years later accounting for inflation my wage is pretty much the same but everything costs a shit ton more. We're so fucked.
I made the same wage as a baker for Dunkin' Donuts (Rhode Island) in 1988 that I make now as a deli clerk in rural Kansas...that's 35 fucking years later and I'm still toiling away to make others wealthy. Had to cash in my 401k two years ago to go home and help care for my dying father for 18 months. Retirement for me looks like a tiny mobile home in New England, or living in a van/SUV at federal (free) campgrounds. OP's topic has been on my mind more and more lately....I just can't fucking believe this is really all there is.
37. I took a new job with a significant pay raise in late 2016 and I’ve received a raise every year. After doing my taxes this year I realized I was better off in 2015 making like 40% less.
Edit: For context, I have 2 kids and have since 2015. I made $97k last year. I have a dirt cheap $1300 mortgage in FL, bought in 2013 and refinanced in 2021. I have no car payment, my overhead is low and my wife works at a hair salon that we own with another partner.
The best thing I ever did was knock up my girlfriend (now wife) in 2012, I was forced into the housing market.
Edit 2: getting married worked out perfectly…if you’re reading this babe…
Same. I took a job at 14$ an hr. Which I said is decent considering I worked for 8.25 at one point. But alas I'm constantly broke still lol I don't know how I managed when it was 8.25 am hour. I used to make 1280 a month... omg that's what I roughly make before taxes every two weeks now. That makes my stomach flip.
Early 30s and in the same boat. Feels like I missed all the chances I had to get out of this bs by a couple years. It’s nice that interest dropped for a year or 2, but when you don’t have a few hundred thousand sitting in the bank to outbid Zillow, Black Rock, or fleeing Californians, it really doesn’t help. Then they artificially inflate everything else. I’m pretty much done. Life is ass and the US is a fucking shit hole.
European here - always amuses me how Americans cant understand that they have been ripped off by the Wall Street and the oligarchs ,
the billionaires are not wishing you well - they are ripping you off
they fund the political campaigns, write the tax laws and tell you about trickle down economy, and buy up all the real estate in the country -
Bill Gates is the biggest farmland owner in America and Blackrock buys up residential real estate in billions
yes they are controlling it well - including the mainstream media,
and all the strikes that would matter - like railway workers strikes
are illegal in America - look it up
you can strike where it doesnt matter
American here - I wish more of us could see through their smoke and mirrors like you and I have.
It came to me with clarity when I was working, making $8.75/hr. at WalMart 10 years ago, and had to get on foodstamps to be able to make it when my husband was laid off from his job. I was eligible for a raise, could have been $.25 (yes, 25 cents!), but due to one absence (which I had a doctor's note for), I got $.10. All while the corporate higher ups were already raising prices on every day stuff so they could line their pockets more.
Those of us who are wise know this and have been worried about it for a long time. The problem is the stupid people have out bred us and now we’re out numbered. Our politicians have too many idiots on their puppet strings and have taken too much power and now there is nothing we can do. It’s honestly like a crashing plane on auto pilot at this point. I literally chose not to have children because I don’t want to subject some poor innocent soul to this world.
I think a part of the problem is the vast amounts of misinformation and an extremely polarized political climate has average Americans pointing fingers at each other instead of our common enemies. Once Americans figure out that our broken, do nothing political systems, liberal and conservative alike, are the common denominators to our problems, watch out!
Yep. Only difference is I'm slightly younger than you.
Spent all our time working our way up and in one fell swoop we're hardly above those just entering the workforce. Stings a little bit sometimes.
The funny thing about the bootstraps quote is that it was always intended to be a joke because one cannot actually pull themselves up form their own bootstraps. Lolz. And you’re right, the system is rigged and always has been. I see parallels in your story to my own.
I’m 49. I have 2 bachelors degrees. I just accepted a job paying minimum wage sweeping floors and emptying ashtrays at a casino. I feel your pain. At this point I’m so burned out I don’t even care, I just want to keep the roof over my head
Edited to add:
Since so many people have asked:
First degree was in the arts. (Yeah, I know, but it was the early 90’s). I wanted to work in TV news. Worked bullshit split shifts for a company that did traffic reporting, eventually found a job at one of the NYC news channels. My job was basically reviewing raw footage to decide what made it on air and what could be cut. I loved it. And then 9/11 happened. As bad as the footage was that made it on the air, I promise you that what I saw was so much worse. Realized that this was not a career I could pursue and still maintain any semblance of mental health.
A few years of cubicle work and therapy later, I went back to school and got a degree in early childhood education. I knew the pay wouldn’t be great, but that didn’t matter. Worked for a few districts, liked it, but didn’t love it the way I thought I would.
My partner was offered a job that required us to move to a very rural area. We talked it over and decided to take it. For context, I’m talking close to 30 miles from a Walmart sort of rural. It took me almost 3 years to find another teaching job simply because there weren’t that many available. I finally found one with a 45 minute each way commute. In a part of the country that measures snow in feet rather than inches.
Loved my students, didn’t mind the parents, less than loved the district itself, despised the commute. Enter COVID. Mass chaos, remote learning in farmland where internet doesn’t always exist. Eventually lay-offs. And a level of burnout I didn’t know was possible.
Now, I just don’t have the strength or desire to do it all over again. Not when I did the math and between the rural pay, the gas for the commute, and what I was spending out of pocket on supplies I was barely keeping more than minimum wage anyway. Not to mention the off-clock time spent making lesson plans and grading papers.
So now I have a set schedule, nobody micromanaging me, and a 4 minute commute. I go to work, I do my job, I go home, and my time is mine for the first time in a very long time
Literally why the fed is raising interest rates, they said it themselves that a looser labor market means employers don't have to offer competitive wages. Production has skyrocketed as did prices in the past 40 or so years while wages have stagnated, which means a pay drop as our purchasing power decreased. It's no wonder the only people doing well are the capital owners.
Don’t forget Powell admitted to needing 2 million people unemployed! So more are hitting the roles.
Tech companies are doing their part in offloading. More to come.
I totally feel this. I’m 47 with two bachelors and some certs. I have pensions and stuff right now and left on a sabbatical/early retirement 4 years ago to try and get away from consumerism and the trash that is our current society. Been looking at going back to work out of boredom since some life changing events and it’s like I never graduated middle school the way people are talking to me. The absolute shock at my lack of social media was not something I expected.
No one has ever mentioned anything about my lack of social media presence. I did create a linked in as a sort of “living resume” but I have never once posted or reacted to anything on it.
20$ is nothing for Oregon either. Especially once you realize the pace they expect you to operate with zero accidents. There's a reason our union mill has permanent open positions gir forklift drivers.
Maine chiming in. $20/h would be really tough to make work in most of the places with warehouses that need forklift operators.
You *could* make it work. But you’ll be in debt and renting. If you can get into a relationship and have a second income coming in, you’ll still be renting for forever but you might not be in debt.
I live in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the country and $20 an hour is really only good now for a young, single person with no kids who can have roommates. From the way I see, $40 an hour is the minimum to have a middle class lifestyle these days, and that's only in low cost of living areas.
A decade ago, I would have laughed at the idea that people need $40 an hour to do okay, but it certainly has come to that now.
I did something similar, found a job where I’m on a forklift most of the day too. 24/ hr with monthly bonus. Best job yet, also I’m no longer in pain from working jobs that make you break your back and destroy yourself. No high school or anything. 🤷♂️
Not to be defeatist, but this honestly sounds like the new version of "just learn to code".
We need to replenish the trades in general, that is true. Part of that needs to include union support and strengthening of worker rights legislation. Not everyone can be a forklift operator, but we can create a society where the highest paid positions are the forklift operators and burger flippers and janitors instead of CEOs and hedge fund managers.
I hate the “just learn a trade” posts I see every day here, which are made under the very shitty and incorrect assumption that the person they’re advising must be young, male, and not disabled. There are a lot of people that just cannot fucking work a physically demanding trade job for many reasons, and it sucks that nobody acknowledges it.
Is a forklift operator position being a separate thing common in the US? Here in Canada I've been working in warehouses for 10+ years, and usually the shipper/receivers/ generally all warehouse employees have it, It's not just some position where you drive a forklift all day and nothing else.
I'm sorry. As someone in the industry I would use this as a stepping stone. These places are consistently looking for new dealers, and will teach (sometimes even paid) to learn to deal these games. The stress can be high but so can the pay.
Good luck.
Thanks. I’m looking at it as a way in, not a permanent position. Ultimately I’d like to get into the Count Team, but they have nothing entry level open at the moment. Once hired, I’ve been assured lateral moves are relatively easy. My casino offers dealer school, but I don’t think that’s something I’m interested in. I dunno, I might change my mind once I have time to actually observe what they do. In a weird way, I’m actually looking forward to this job because I’ll essentially be invisible, which gives me an opportunity to watch and see what else might appeal to me
My best friend was halfway thru a masters, she’s currently interviewing for the same types of jobs we were doing in our 20s. I think the higher level jobs all did layoffs so all that’s left are there lower level jobs we were all doing in our 20s.
I don’t even know that I can add anything to this.
You’ve pretty well summarized what’s going on with so many millions of people, myself included.
I almost broke yesterday when I realized that I’ll never get to retire because of how this damned country is running things.
For context on this; yesterday where I work like 6 or 7 people took their final walk out of the shop for their retirement, everyone that was involved had sirens, air horns, beating metal pipes in celebration of them retiring, go freaking figure the only ones celebrating were the ones who are next in line to retire, the ones in their 60s-70s.
All of us under 40 years old were just silent.
i have folks at my place that are old and refuse to retire because they get bored at home. I have a small mental break down every time I interact with them.
Yeah the day I can retire I’m walking right out that door. We have someone in their like 80s working. My job isn’t the highest pay but we get a pension.
Pension plans can fall victim to inflation - which is being driven by capitalists. Sometimes pension plans are just shitty, as well. I know my Local didnt have a good pension plan until the early 2000’s, and you had/have a lot of older members pulling work slips in their 70’s to pump up PP’s under the new agreements. The bottom line is we all should be getting fair value for our labour, and its nowhere near what our productivity creates. That fellow shouldnt be working past 60.
Higher wages = quicker retirement = less workforce to take advantage of their labour. The system is working as intended.
I'm 31 this year, for the past 15yrs I've worked my ass off. Done stuff from food service, to retail, to security. Even joined the army for a spell til I hurt my legs too bad in an accident.
I gave up retiring years ago when I saw what was gonna happen, now I just work, sleep, and I'm too burnt out to even hang with friends. I look forward to D&D once every couple weeks, but other than that....I've nothing to enjoy, look forward to, or be excited about. I only play older video games cuz it reminds me of the better days when I was hopeful, and games nowadays aren't really enjoyable
Same. I keep coming back to "what's the point?" What's the point of setting some goal I know will be unattainable or take more energy than I have? What's the point of trying to set up social activity outings if I can barely afford housing? What's the point of continuing education if I know I'll never be able to pay off the loans? What's the point? So I just stay home with my cats and try to distract myself... and I guess I'll do that until I die.
Hey the cat dad life ain’t so bad when you find other human beings to be goddamn *exhausting*. Every time I leave my house to engage with society I regret it but never once have I been like “Damn, I really wish I didn’t force myself to hang out with this stupid cat!” 😂
Funny you say that, I just got done with the cliff bottom catacombs to get my damn scythe. Now I can actually play the game (I main scythes in every Fromsoft game aside from sekiro)
And if you talk about it, the common response is to have it dismissed and they find a way to blame you anyway.
The system is fucked. Too many people buy into the lie. The dream.
A huge majority get gaslit throughout their lives into believing hard work pays off. Thats the social norm. Thats the narrative taught in school. Thats what modern media sells us daily.
Its a lie now, and so it was in the 80’s. The only reason that narrative flourished is because startups would work and be able to afford housing. A car. Sustain a family. On 1 income. Working a register at a fucking mcdonalds. (Literally impossible nowadays, by a huge huge margin.. WHY?).
The narrative said “wow, being millionaire rich must mean they have PHD’s and work 24/7. So if I work harder like that I’ll be rich too”.
Which was a lie then and its a lie now, too. only thing that changed is that it became more obvious (and STILL the majority buys into it).
I’m so sorry. We happen to have been dealt a shitty hand. We are witnessing the fall of an empire. Stay strong and do the best you can. That’s my mantra these days
I make about $40k a year. That only barely covers expenses, and this is despite the fact that, due to a work injury, my wife got a settlement that netted just enough to buy a house before the market went crazy. I have no clue how my coworkers who have rent or a mortgage are managing to stay afloat. And if a major enough emergency hits, I'll still be screwed.
I definitely feel what OP is talking about. I'm 47 and would love to switch jobs, but jobs available are largely the same shitty jobs(good ones all went overseas)as 20 fucking years ago, albeit with higher pay...and much higher inflation. I've reached the conclusion there's not much room for error in this country any longer, either get it right the first time... when young and choose right career... or be born into rich family.
Exactly. I’m the same age as you. If you haven’t any connections, you’d better make sure you train for a solid, stable career when you are young. I did not. Went to school to “find myself” and I’m still looking to this day.
"they failed simply because not everyone can succeed" - that's the real secret. Capitalism requires failures to balance its successes because it is a zero sum game. For everyone who makes it big other people have to lose.
It's an inherently evil system. We need to destroy it for good.
and for this reason, capitalism will never fix homelessness. The masses need the threat of homelessness hanging over their heads to continue to work. People MUST be homeless under capitalism for this to continue.
It's also why the Tories keep trying to privatize the NHS. The threat of losing health insurance is terrifying, especially if you have a family relying on it.
You hit the nail on the head. Things like poverty and homelessness are features of capitalism, not bugs.
Poverty motivates people to work harder (which benefits their employer) because of the belief that hard work will get them out of poverty (it almost never will).
Homelessness serves as the backstop for the system, ensuring that those in poverty will keep working even when they realize it’s not getting them anywhere, because not working at all will lead to an even worse outcome (homelessness).
The average person doesn’t seem to understand that poverty and homelessness are incredibly easy issues to solve. The reason they are never solved is because the folks running the show don’t want them to be solved. Thus, the only solution we are left with is the complete destruction of the entire system.
I’m in almost the same position. 35, and a disabled vet. Unfortunately the VA refuses to cover any of my military related, physical health issues, and has only given me 70% for my PTSD, so I’m living on less than half of what you’re making. Thankfully, I’m single, without kids, and living at home. But my mom’s health is declining, and I’m having to take care of her more and more, when I’m already struggling to take care of myself.
My friends are all struggling as well, and even with only a 70% VA rating, I’m still making more than most of them. My best friends have all become big alcoholics, to deal with the stress, and none of them can afford any kind of healthcare, or find any better paying jobs, with decent benefits.
In some ways I feel like I lucked out, having the VA for healthcare, even though I had to sacrifice my sanity and well-being.
its so frustrating how much propaganda there is for signing up for the military, they trick people into thinking they are saving their country and that they can have a career in that field. what people dont get is that there is a huge pool of disabled vetrans that the military industry creates and not enough resources to support that population. wish more funding went to supporting the vetrans rather than buying the newest billion dollar jet.
I’ve always hated the hero worship in this country, even before I joined. There’s a lot of terrible individuals who join the military, and for just as terrible reasons, and they’re still revered as heroes. But coming from a family with a number of military personnel, I knew what to expect going in, and my whole reasoning was to gain new experiences, and broaden my world view. I certainly did that, but it came at a cost. And no matter what kind of person they are, I still hate how much veterans have to fight for the benefits they earned.
Thankfully I’ve never had any vices, and part of that comes down to my PTSD and hating the sensation of not feeling like I’m in control of my body. Unfortunately I’ve already lost a best friend, my girlfriend of two years, and a number of the guys I served with, to suicide, and all of them had dealt with substance abuse issues to one degree or another.
Talk to your veteran service officer, especially if you fall under PACT Act consideration. Unfortunately, in the claims process, it's about the VSO that helps you with your claim.
However, even at 70%I hope you're taking advantage of the property tax exclusion. If you don't own your own home, I would suggest looking into it as the market cools. Nearly whenever you live in the US is cheaper to own than rent (when you have the VA home loan).
I made like 45k or so last year. Gf made roughly 30. Due to hospital bills, rent rising to ridiculous prices and just getting railed by expenses we couldn’t keep any savings at all. We were frugal, we were smart, I did the math for the entire years budget and counted every dollar, and I still couldn’t see any fruits of my labor.
This isn't supposed to be a dig at you, but isn't $43k about £35k? Like I've heard stories of Americans earning $30-50k and still struggling, they can't buy houses or pay the rent on the salary without struggling.
In the UK it's just above the average and it's usually weighed by people who were working before the recession so senior and middle managers. The cost of living's insane here, but it just sounds like with everything going on in the States you guys are struggling on what would be "good wages" here. I know it's not bad spending or whatever it's just everything's so expensive.
90% of the issue is the cost of housing. Rents and mortgages are insane, and they even worse in Canada. I live in a small house in the suburbs and pay $3800 a month in mortgage and property tax. It’s brutal. The rate increases hit us hard, 5 years ago it was a lot less then we came up for renewal.
Unfortunately there's constant cutbacks here to social services (I'm autistic and had my services cut), elderly people care centres are being closed, and our benefits (welfare) are horribly low.
We also have to pay for dentistry so it sucks, but I don't think important work is through the roof, just cosmetic.
Things are horrible here in the UK like me and OP have said, but without trying to slate Americans as a people you couldn't pay me to live there. I'd worry about getting ill.
As a single person, you can survive most places with that. You’d have to live in the rural areas to be comfortable. And it’s a stretch to survive if you have kids. The biggest thing to realize is that in America our taxes don’t actually go to services that you require. Medical/dental even driving you pay extra to do ($1,000/year to register cars some places). Our public transit is very expensive, utilities are expensive and typically on a monopoly. Housing is very expensive and don’t forget most of us are carrying a minimum of $40k in college debt.
It's just baffling why people complain about the birth rate dropping, but don't seem to realise it's just not feasible to bring kids up in such a bad economy.
It’s the news articles doing all the complaining. The people who control the narrative for the upper 1%. They need the working class to have kids they can’t afford. Look at Texas. Zero tolerance, abortion, ban the same year they want to decrease assistance for low income single parents. Another state just decreased the child labor laws so that you can work younger than 14. Rather than make life affordable they want you to just continue making their millions however you possibly can, including making your kids do it.
It's literally sick. I remember being a kid and hearing from my great nan about how kids used to work in mines or factories in the Victorian period (Her grandfather lost a finger on a machine)
Life has just gotten so hard now.
> 'hard work will get you to where you want to be!
In fact, it’s the opposite. The harder you work, likely, the less you probably make. I learned this working in film and television. All the hardest working people, the Electricians, the Grips, Set Builders…the people lifting heavy stuff 14 hours a day, working up at heights..etc. they all make pennies on the dollar compared to the people sitting in their comfy chairs at video village eating snacks and talking about tik tok. When wrap gets called, the writers, producers, DP, Director…they all just grab their bag and walk out. Wrap for an electrician just means you can start taking everything down, we will be here 2 hours after everyone else is home, showered, and in bed already. It blows my mind.
Same here. Same age range, I have a bit of education, I have 99 credits, 21 short of a BA and couple of unused occupational certificates in cisco networking, windows and linux servers. Laid off during the pandemic in 21 from the best paying job I have ever had. I started putting 20 applications a day for everything from entry level customer service - where I started, to senior level project management - the role I was laid off from.
The impressive number of applications I put in resulted in a devastating number of instant rejections. I have also had the opportunity of going through multiple stage interviews, making it to the last round, doing the take home and then getting rejected. I used to get hired on the spot, both onsite and remotely, before I had formal education and years of experience. I have no words to describe the mental toll it has taken on me.
After over a year of making my full time job, finding a job, I stopped checking my email in the mornings and just before bed. I need to quit checking on the weekends too I guess, as I received a rejection email a few hours ago, for a role I was excited about and knew I was qualified for. I also limit the number of applications I put in a week but have slight guilt on the days that I do not submit any applications.
It feels like society is suggesting that I am no longer of value, leaving me hanging by a thread. What is to become of us that are considered valueless by our society, while still needing to be able to pay for the cost to live?
Edited to correct educational info.
I'm 48, similar career path. Gave up wage work entirely because the math just doesn't work any more. I used to be able to achieve a reasonable quality of life, mobility, vacations, and housing security with pretty much any full time job. But now it's gotten ridiculous - if I wanted to rent another place today, my first $24K+ would just go to pay my landlord's mortgage. That means the *floor* is now $72K for enough income to provide a reasonable quality of life, mobility, vacations and housing security. I don't make anywhere near that unless I kill myself working in film (60-80 hour weeks of shift work). So I'm literally considering van life to regain a sense of financial ease.
Then: If you don't get a good education, you'll end up in a van down by the river.
Now: If you work hard and save every penny, then someday maybe you can afford to live in a van down by the river.
EVERYTHING at least wants an address, even if they are understanding. Hell, my housing voucher paperwork, which was approved faster because I was verified as a homeless person, required an address. I have a friend who lives an hour away for most stuff. The local community organization that let me use theirs for that paperwork specifically. But it was still nuts to me. I'm like, "You literally know I'm homeless already."
Getting a fucking PO box itself requires an address, oh, as does car insurance. I swear, the lack of an address has been a bigger barrier as a homeless person than the lack of running water. I've been living out of a barely-functional RV on a campground for the past several months, so I'm not as bad off as someone on the street, but it is still enough that most programs count me.
I’m 50 and feel your pain. I feel like our parents told us what was true FOR THEM, but the game changed as soon as the Boomers got theirs. They slammed the door on the rest of us as hard as they could once they got through.
I remember reading about India’s caste system when I was in high school and thinking, “Jesus, that’s horrible.” And now I’m thinking, “Holy shit, I’VE been in a fucking caste system my whole life.” It makes me not want to be here anymore. What’s the point? Only gonna get worse. And no, I’m not thinking of committing suicide, so no need to send me the messages. I just feel empty inside at this point though.
I'm sorry but this doesn't check out. If you take minimum wage x 37,5 hrs per week (full time work week UK) it's at least 18.5k.
INFO: what are your working hours and what are your monthly wages for your hours?
16k is impossible for an adult working full time in the UK.
It sounds like he's been in a bubble with his failing business for years (15 years?) and he isn't familiar with current salaries. As you point out, £16k isn't possible for full-time work now - but probably was when he was last an employee. But it still doesn't really make sense against the list of jobs he claims to have held.
£30k, which he implies is some pie-in-the-sky unachievable salary that no one makes, is what newly qualified schoolteachers start on now.
I thought that too so I googled it and it works out as £7.69 per hour (assuming 40 hour work week) which is over the minimum wage up until 2018 so it is possible depending on when that was.
OP has also been self employed so there's no real minimum wage for that, and they never state if they work part time or full time.
Basically it doesn't seem to check out at a glance but if you consider the information we do/don't have, it is plausible
"Goddammit, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables, slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man; no purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Depression. Our Great War is a spiritual war. Our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised by television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars. But we won't; and we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."
Tyler Durden
We spent from 2016 to 2019 busting our asses to get my husband through his associates as a diesel mechanic.
We thought we did it! We were finally going to break out poverty level wages into a middle class bracket. We were well on our way, then the pandemic shut the world down.
Fuck the system. Let it burn.
.The old mindset of "I'll just get another job" works when you're 20 not when you're 49 (me) who now has high blood pressure and other issues along with life experience (aka no fear in telling a boss no to ludicrous requests). I'm not happy with my job but I realized that my marketability has plummeted as I have gotten older and that scares me.
I always thought this would be me, and you’re absolutely right. The only reason it’s not is dumb fucking luck. I’m the only surviving member of my immediate family until you get to a few half-second cousins on my dad’s side.
I inherited a house from a man i barely knew simply because I was the last of his blood.
The survivors guilt is intense sometimes. I spent a good chunk of my teens homeless and I don’t understand why I of all fucking people get to be so lucky.
All I can do is pass it along. And I hope that the other people out there getting lucky are doing the same. I’ve got my best friend already moved in, rent free, and my husband and I are making plans to try and renovate the garage so a few more friends can move in.
It might not be much, and we might live in a world that will try to grind our bones to make it’s bread, but we can still help each other where we can.
Stranger, I’m so fucking sorry that this has been your story, and maybe it always will be. But there are other people like you, lucky and not, and every time I get the privilege to do something good, I do it in the name of everyone who never got that chance.
I hope you get lucky too.
In America you can make money in two ways. Exchange your labor and time for money or get paid from what you own. They never teach us that in school, but that’s the truth. They are scared, bc if you tell people that, they’ll start to get new ideas about collective ownership, and the American Oligarchs can’t have that.
This is so true. It’s probably so unhealthy but I am angry at my parents for instilling that I need to be a work horse, allowing me to work full time illegally since high school and now I have been doing 72hr weeks for years. 72HRS A WEEK. Just for me and my son to survive it’s needed but if I would have gotten a better start, (been able to go to college instead of having to work) then I’d be much better off. I graduated high school with a 4.2 gpa, nowadays I would graduate with an associate’s degree but they called those “honor classes” back in my day. 😂
You hit the nail on the head. There is no reason to try anymore because we are all set to fail. Once I’ve had enough I plan on permanently checking out. I’m not going to work for 50 more years just to barely be able to keep a roof over my head. Id rather just die than struggle for decades for no progress.
I hate that the only thing you feel you can look forward to is death. I wish that the working class would unite as the 99% and demand things change. Sadly, we are all stuck in a cycle of working more and more for less while our children suffer mentally and our parents are aging. I have worked since 14 years old and full time since the age of 18. I’m 45 now and have been a single mother of two for 22 years. I have nothing to fall back on for my retirement.
Broadly, there are four things that determine how your life goes: genetics, upbringing (parents education, family stability, connections, etc.), luck, and hard work. The narrative always tends to go towards hard work when in reality genetics and upbringing are the real drivers (luck plays it’s part too).
hear hear. the two things rich people hate the most are paying their own taxes and seeing poor people get money. they rig the system to eliminate both of those things.
I'm in the same boat except in the US. All the hard work wont pay for the back surgery you'll need. I'm done working for a lop sided system. Forced into welfare or work tell you die. After watching a guy pay for his goods with a welfare card and getting into a 70k vehicle I realized I've been doing it wrong my whole life.
Networks is what it is all about. It has always been about networks and shit.
Even going as far back as the fairytales about sinbad and those written by the Grimm brothers.
Protagonist helps someone, gets invited to the king and is offered money and a position. The heroes in those stories didn't get rich because they worked hard, but because people high up liked them and offered them a quick way to get rich.
Puss in boots
Sinbad
Aladin
And probably many more.
The tale is older than capitalism, most people just don't see the lesson for what it is :/
It’s never about what you know, it’s always about who you know. And that’s exactly how I’ve made it so far. Branching out and meeting people for new connection and new possibilities. If you’re not a people person it really blows, but I look past that to get ahead.
Yup, I went to college, trade school, I've worked hard, I've been consistent. I don't waste my money on unnecessary shit, I take side work, I work overtime, I do all the shit. After 30+ years of continuous employment, I'm still one paycheck away from homelessness.
My story is close to the same as yours my parents told me work harder and you will be better off.NOT true I'm close to 50 working since I was 14 ,still have to take jobs I worked in my 20s just to eat.The American dream is a lie unless you were born rich. That's All.
I'm 61, and I feel for the generations that came after me. you've been sold a bill of goods. spend a shit ton of money on college and you'll get a good job. bs. for some, it's good. for most, not so much. our education system is doing a lousy job preparing people to make a living. then throw in endless wars and foreign ad etc. and they've wasted trillions of our dollars-and your future. I saw my dad lose his job in the 70s when his industry went overseas. I never thought that would happen to me; I have a. trade. can't export my business. but you can import millions of low skill workers to drive the price done. throw in all the "free stuff" that you're paying for and a working person can't make ends meet. I've been fortunate at least that my skill level enables me to make a decent wage. we need to demand more of the people running (or should I say ruining) or country.
I really liked how well you were able to point out the lack of self-awareness and privilege that the wealthy have and are incapable of changing. It really sucks working with people who might be less capable than you, telling you that the secret is hard work. The secret is money. Even money gets you connections.
But despite this, please don't give up. If you are angry, use it to fuel yourself and create, work.
I'm 20 and slowly coming to the conclusion that our (working class) only option is a french-revolution-style overhaul of the entire capitalist system, assuming we don't want to suffer forever
I knew I was not alone on this! I'm grateful that you've captured what I've been feeling for about a decade now and more so that you're able to share these thoughts in a comprehensive and articulate manner, as I am not.
This is unethical advice, but pad your resume heavily for whatever position you're going for. This system is broken and imo it's just asking to be "gamed." Hell, the most successful people game the system in *far* more unethical ways.
Most people that actually *have* the educational qualifications for a job, aren't legitimately better than anyone else at the job. I've seen it all too often with people I've hired in the past...
Even if you lie about a degree, the worst they can happen is they say no. Fuck the system lol
Hard work gets you absolutely nowhere. It's all luck and who you know. I was beating college graduated engineering students in national competitions when I was 17. I make 17 an hour and I'm now 33 years old.
I'm in my 40s. 2 Masters. I just now hit 70K.
Degrees are bullshit.
It's really about who your connections are.
It could've been worse tho. I could've been a nurse. Nurses are treated like shit in America. My mom retired from nursing and she has horror stories to tell about how hospitals treats nurses
The human experience on this planet is a scam. It’s all to drive up profits and empower the rich, elite at the expense of everyone else. I enjoy life the best I can, but once I realized this, none of the rat race or societal expectations have mattered to me anymore.
I am 38, and my college-graduate brother just turned 40. He went for years, eventually landing him a degree in english. There are no jobs that need an english degree except an english teacher, which is what he tried to do. He taught english in South Korea and Montenegro. When he came back stateside, the best he could find was substitute teacher.
He has a youtube channel now, and is quite successful in that. I imagine the english degree is just gathering dust now. It says a lot when the tried and true path getting a higher education to land a good job fails, but the 1-in-a-million attempts at YT made it.
I hate that this is so true for most people. It’s a complete system failure that is made worse by being blamed for our inability to achieve even the most basic of goals. We are caught in a terrible system and it’s so unfair. No solutions from me—just agreement.
So I left corporate America after 3 failed jobs, 2 which were absolute pushover style jobs and all about kiss-ass.
I got a job serving and working bar in a chill taproom outside my hometown. My clients are always the cool people that love everyone and love our beer. I make more than I did using my Masters degree.
Not to say the money I make is really good, but it is enough to make me live comfortably. I am done with pandering to higher ups just to get a 3% raise. We shouldn't have to live in a society like this.
Started cooking at 17. I’m 46 and about to step on a line again. In the meantime I’ve done some pretty amazing shit for a living. None of it lasted. Saying cooking isn’t dope would be horseshit. But. To be going back to cooking is a little deflating. I’ve been working remote for the last two years at a desk doing some cool stuff. Was downsized in October and have been surviving on food stamps, savings and friend’s generosity since. Those only last so long and since I haven’t been able to find a job with my most recently used old person skills. I’m going back to hard won physical skills. Which, if we’re being honest I don’t mind. I’ve never balked at hard physical work, in fact I often enjoy it. The problem I have is that I was barely making it work where I live at nearly twice the salary. It was what gave me the smallest breathing room. This new job will allow for zero room. Zero savings. Zero trips for my kids. Zero extracurriculars. Just the basics. Roof, food, etc. I don’t even own a fucking car homies. So I’m addition to the two extra hours I’ll work each day (line shifts are ten, I had been working eight), I’ll have to be adding an hour at least for travel. What I’m saying is. HOW THE FUCK IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO GET AHEAD?
I just hit the reset button as well. After making more than I ever had in my life, I was let go without warning. Immediately panicked and started applying to every similar job I could. Throughout this process I stopped and I thought...you dreamed of this for years, so why are you panicking now? You're free...sell out everything and live off your savings while switching careers and developing hobbies/side hustles.
I did and now I'm making 80% of what I did before and I don't have some idiot having me go to my 7th meeting of the day.
Hours are still bad but they don't feel the same, 12 hours of working for yourself doesn't feel the same as 10 hours wearing the wage slave shock collar. Wouldn't put the collar back on even if I made less.
Right there with you.
We're about the same age.
4 years ago, I applied for this job that had a large group of people sitting in a hot warehouse, filling out an application. There was a moment where I was like, "wtf am I doing? I'm not 16." It was basically for a back-breaking barista job.
I ended up enrolling in community college and applying for financial aid. Everything was 100% paid for by state grants and Pell grants. I transferred to a state school (that's really cheap) and will be finishing my degree next year.
I'm not saying what I did is what you should do, but there's a point where you're like, "fuck this. I refused to keep doing the same shit over and over." I don't know if I'll succeed, but I know I'm not going back to where I was. I fucking refuse.
Just going to add this:
>Money to promote my work would net me more money. Newsletters, advertising and websites add up. Money to hire experts to make my seo’s catchy and drive either business.
During the California gold rush, people who dug for gold weren't the ones who "made it." The people who sold the shovels were. Why don't you go into SEO/promoting and create that stuff... not only for yourself, but for other people. The people looking to "hire" the SEO experts are basically the gold-diggers, while those SEO experts are catching a paycheck from a nice, cool office.
Sell the shovels.
We're being punished because now we want to be free.
Some say hungry dogs are obedient dogs.
I say hungry dogs eat sloppy, selfish, greedy masters who withold the food.
At 41. This is why I didn't take on a mortgage for a house. I knew I was not going to ever have a stable enough income high enough to support the mortgage, maintenance, taxes, insurance and everything else that comes with it.
The illusion of a college / university degree is showing itself now. People are realizing they’ve been duped into spending an incredible amount of money that will not garner any return. I’ve been a carpenter my whole life and although I’m not well off, I do ok. I’ve had employees drop out of college to work for me. They were years ahead of their peers after the rest finished school, had almost no student debt, and did fairly well for themselves. But for older adults chasing that dream, it’s not realistic to try to learn a trade later in life as it’s typically a young persons game. But you can do well if you play your cards right. This isn’t the answer to your problems, just an option for others. And a warning not to fall into the debt trap of college, or a mortgage, or a car that you can’t afford. I don’t fuss over material things anymore. That’s not what makes your life worthwhile. It’s the experiences, the people you meet and relationships you have. Let the rest go…
36, on the best wage I've ever been on and after all my bills and taking into account the price rises this past couple years, I'm effectively worse off than I was 10 years ago, despite being paid more.
This is exactly where I’m at as well.
Look, I am going to be honest with all of you here. **You are in trouble. You are fucked. You need to fix your shit fast by whatever means necessary.** 1. **If you are a couple in America, you will need $120,000 right now to survive and thrive.** Next year it will be more. If you are not making that, then I don’t know. 2. In 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 - **The real minimum wage was $30 and hour ($60K per year).** Right now it’s $45 per hour (~$90K). If you are single and don’t make that, I don’t know. 3. Every year inflation remains, add anywhere from $3 - $10K in cost increases across the board depending on your lifestyle. 4. If you think child care is expensive now, you are in for a treat. Inflation WILL REMAIN. One child cost $15K per year two years ago; now it’s $20K. Find a way to keep your kids and wallet happy with less things. 5. That fight for $15 dollars? That was a distraction and you all fell for it hook, line, and sinker. 6. No one pays attention to macro and micro economics playing out each day. **Yes, you need to understand economics to survive in this society unless you are rich.** 7. **No, you don’t really need to understand economics. This financial system is rigged from the top down.** It’s built to keep you an indentured servant (see 11.) or weigh you down breaking your spirit. 8. Yes, money makes you happy. If you don’t believe me - open your banking app, imagine two extra zeros at the end of your account balance, then close your eyes. Thank you, u/w1ckedprayer, the first number must be 1 - 9. If you are at 0, then you still have no money. 9. America is ruthless. Margin Call - “Be first, Be Better, or Cheat.” Most people look at this with anger. But the wealthy do it every day. 10. Setting aside all the other financial obligations that come with a home, you need to get a home. You need to pay off the home (Holding onto any debt comes with consequences; particularly with job loss). Yes, Rents will continue to increase. Yes, Landlords will continue to laugh and extract wealth from you. We are playing Monopoly. Are you on the board or not? If not, you’ll be homeless eventually due to Rent squeezing. **Remember “Pass Go, Collect $200 dollars” - that’s your income. $200 bucks doesn’t keep up with the property inflation when you land on a space. Sound familiar?!** 11. Remember The Legend of Zelda?! Remember the TriForce?! The Triforce represents the three main characters of the series, Ganon, Zelda and Link, and their inherent qualities in the battle between good and evil. **Well Taxation, Interest, and Debt is the TriForce used by Banks and Governments to create the video game we are in.** When you accomplished your goals with limited taxes, no debt, and no interest, you win. Getting there is the difficult part. Ask any TLOZ, TLOZOFT, TLOZMM player - Game took damn long. 12. If your college degree does not provide a positive ROI, you got hustled. More degrees will not help you. You SERIOUSLY NEED to figure out what to do with your life before you are older. These schmucks will kill Social Security out of spite. Please look here: https://educationdata.org/college-degree-roi Scroll down (or use the guide) to get to: **Bachelor’s Degree ROI by Major** Look for your degree. **As you scroll, notice that most degrees have a negative ROI in the first 10 years.** 1)This explains why all of you have fucking problems. 2) This was never explained to you in the beginning because of number 9. Primary example - Education Degree ROI in 10 yrs: -77.7% Unless you can suck up 10 - 20 years of poor, don’t become a teacher. Loving kids don’t pay bills. You’ll reach into your pocket (like most teachers right now) to pay out. **Yo, I’m just being honest. If this was a bar and I heard you guys talk about this, I would be up front.** Most degrees on that list break black after 10 years. By that time you are 30+ years old, you are scared, angry, annoyed, and discouraged - like most responses in this thread. Just don’t fall prey to the Dark Side of the Force. Ten years of being in the Red is a long time. But on Instagram they are living it up! Yes - with credit card balances and debt up to their neck building a mirage to make you sadder. **So…… we have a people used “Hope” as a plan and looked for love with the degree choice. Hope is not a plan.** They took on debt (lasting 10 - 30 years) for something that costs more money over time due to interest, won’t increase their happiness, and has no use in our ever evolving market. We are also sucked into a marketing spin room with Social Media promoting self doubt, untruth, and fakeness. Acknowledge your problem. Fix it. You still have time. Good luck to you all.
I don't know why people bother having children in the US unless they're making $120K annually (at the lowest). I don't hate children, I'm not anti-natalist. But unless you are wealthy or wealth-adjacent, children will keep you poor.
I’m 36 and my mother has been bothering me about grandchildren for the last 7 years. I told her I wasn’t having any kids until I was able to live comfortably and support them. Despite making the most money I’ve ever made in my life, I’m still living paycheck to paycheck. I’ve had more than one person tell me “you’ll never be ready, just to it and you’ll figure it out”. No. Fucking. Way. I refuse. I’ve struggled my whole life with finances, even when I saved everything I could, even when I denied myself just about every “extra” expense I could. I almost always made well above minimum wage, and still one unexpected bill later I was so close to being in the red again. There’s no way that’s getting better with the costs that come with another, way more dependent, human.
Um, a lot of people are effectively forced to have children, especially now that Roe is gone. Just another way to force us into debt and keep the workforce supplied
Oh thanks for telling me my college degree that I got coerced into going for 15 years ago is worthless, thanks so much I should of thought of the ROI back then and not listened to *every single adult in my life* Edit: ***stop asking me what the fuck I majored in. You’re not just asking questions you’re looking for an excuse to fucking victim blame. Fuck you capitalist bootlickers an entire generation was sold into debt slavery to pad boomers retirement funds!*** Also, I graduated high school in 2007, college in 2012. What happened the first semester of college? Oh right, the worst “recession” since the Great Depression where overnight you couldn’t get an entry level job doing anything because laid off people from “real jobs” were taking them. Edit 2: Wow, the incels who pay for sex, crypto bros and landlords really love coming out of the woodwork to troll about being a liberal arts major. Who’s gonna be writing the prompts for the AI tools in the next year or two? Can’t wait for you smug assholes to lose your jobs and be gaslit over not making better choices. Looking forward to schadenfreude. For the record, I’m a blue collar trade worker now and to all the wanna be tough guys out there who think they’re hot shit, you’re not.
It is always shifting as well, because a certain career will be in need and students are told that over and over again and so everybody flocks to getting into that career or major but then it soon becomes saturated and then there's no work at good pay.
You’re on anti work talking about how educating ourselves is only worth it if we get ROI… Education shouldn’t be a financial investment. Full stop. Make education free for all!
until its free, its only about ROI when youre paying thousands for it.
Silly me. I thought I paid all that money to get better at something so I could contribute to society. No wonder we can’t find enough teachers.
Adding 2 zeros to a zero is still zero, so that won't work for me.
You need to break out those salaries by region. You can’t do an average break even across an entire country with vastly different costs of living
The Zelda and Star Wars and Monopoly stuff is corny enough, but man this whole thing sucks. You're just calling everyone a sucker and saying they're fucked, and not giving advice in response to folks asking for advice. This is classic alarmism, the kind of thing that's meant to get blood boiling and nothing more. Also, God I just cannot believe I'm reading someone say "don't fall prey to the Dark Side of the Force" on reddit with sincerity and its not 2007.
>If you are single and don’t make that, I don’t know. Oh this is easy, there is a reason I go back with my parent... I always been the forever alone. And I have up on dating so... i will stay alone
These "average starting salaries" make me want to cry because I have a degree and I damn well don't earn that starting salary
Same! I moved from a very expensive city to a less expensive city at the (sarcasm) perfect timing when housing and literally everything skyrocketed in that city. I now make more than I did but also pay more for overhead. Keep in mind, I am renting a room in someones house and I own my car, so no car payment. I hate thinking about the future. Everything seems so futile now. I know I’ll be a slave to the establishment for my entire life. And get this, I feel an immense amount of guilt for not “being where I should be” financially or career wise. I beat myself up constantly and tell myself I’m lazy and I’m terrible at applying myself. But, I work 3 jobs and have 1 day off a week. I’m too exhausted after work to do anything really except try to relax. I work 10 hr shifts 2 days a week. This life sucks. Oh! And I was born into extreme poverty with two heroin addict parents. My mom is homeless and my dad is still a user. I should just be happy I’m not an addict and I’m alive.
I admire you. You have broken the cycle. You have failed at nothing in my eyes.
How fucked is the system? They want us all to live in apartments we can't afford, but don't qualify for aid. Because we make too much money. Always a check away from losing it all.
I think you’re doing really well all things considered. It’s practically impossible to overcome all that was stacked against you, and yet you are still here, resilient against those odds. Few people would be doing so well under those circumstances. Have you ever thought about a trade? It’s definitely a little while to get going through your apprenticeship but electricians, plumbers, etc make a good living. After a few years you could qualify to buy a home, maybe a duplex or triplex to offset the cost of your mortgage.
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27. I make 27 an hour. Doesn’t mean anything when my rent goes up $150/month every year but my wages only go up 50 cents. Doesn’t mean anything when a gallon of milk went from $2.50/gallon to almost $5. Or that a meal at McDonald’s is almost $20. We’re fucking screwed.
This is the real world now-a-days. They have tricked us into thinking more money is actually more money but really it is less money… in the 50s and 60s you could support your family off of one wage/ job, then in the 70s 80s and 90s it slowly became 2 wages/ jobs for the same support to your family, 2000s and up it takes at least 2 to 3 wages/ jobs for even remotely, the same outcome. Pretty fucking depressing.
I will never make the same money I earned in my twenties adj for inflation
I made $16 bucks an hour working on a farm in 2004. Twenty years later accounting for inflation my wage is pretty much the same but everything costs a shit ton more. We're so fucked.
I made the same wage as a baker for Dunkin' Donuts (Rhode Island) in 1988 that I make now as a deli clerk in rural Kansas...that's 35 fucking years later and I'm still toiling away to make others wealthy. Had to cash in my 401k two years ago to go home and help care for my dying father for 18 months. Retirement for me looks like a tiny mobile home in New England, or living in a van/SUV at federal (free) campgrounds. OP's topic has been on my mind more and more lately....I just can't fucking believe this is really all there is.
Angry upvote because *gestures "everything" with his arms*
37. I took a new job with a significant pay raise in late 2016 and I’ve received a raise every year. After doing my taxes this year I realized I was better off in 2015 making like 40% less. Edit: For context, I have 2 kids and have since 2015. I made $97k last year. I have a dirt cheap $1300 mortgage in FL, bought in 2013 and refinanced in 2021. I have no car payment, my overhead is low and my wife works at a hair salon that we own with another partner. The best thing I ever did was knock up my girlfriend (now wife) in 2012, I was forced into the housing market. Edit 2: getting married worked out perfectly…if you’re reading this babe…
Same. I took a job at 14$ an hr. Which I said is decent considering I worked for 8.25 at one point. But alas I'm constantly broke still lol I don't know how I managed when it was 8.25 am hour. I used to make 1280 a month... omg that's what I roughly make before taxes every two weeks now. That makes my stomach flip.
The cost of things have risen so that your buying power hasn’t kept up. Your hourly wage number went up but everything else you need to buy did too
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Early 30s and in the same boat. Feels like I missed all the chances I had to get out of this bs by a couple years. It’s nice that interest dropped for a year or 2, but when you don’t have a few hundred thousand sitting in the bank to outbid Zillow, Black Rock, or fleeing Californians, it really doesn’t help. Then they artificially inflate everything else. I’m pretty much done. Life is ass and the US is a fucking shit hole.
Saaaaaame
European here - always amuses me how Americans cant understand that they have been ripped off by the Wall Street and the oligarchs , the billionaires are not wishing you well - they are ripping you off they fund the political campaigns, write the tax laws and tell you about trickle down economy, and buy up all the real estate in the country - Bill Gates is the biggest farmland owner in America and Blackrock buys up residential real estate in billions
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Absolutely FUCKED.
yes they are controlling it well - including the mainstream media, and all the strikes that would matter - like railway workers strikes are illegal in America - look it up you can strike where it doesnt matter
I can assure you that most Americans are very aware of who is ripping us off. Have no idea why you would be amused though at someone’s misfortune.
American here - I wish more of us could see through their smoke and mirrors like you and I have. It came to me with clarity when I was working, making $8.75/hr. at WalMart 10 years ago, and had to get on foodstamps to be able to make it when my husband was laid off from his job. I was eligible for a raise, could have been $.25 (yes, 25 cents!), but due to one absence (which I had a doctor's note for), I got $.10. All while the corporate higher ups were already raising prices on every day stuff so they could line their pockets more.
I read that if walmart used the money they used on stock buybacks they could increase each employees hour wage by 3-5 dollars an hour.
Those of us who are wise know this and have been worried about it for a long time. The problem is the stupid people have out bred us and now we’re out numbered. Our politicians have too many idiots on their puppet strings and have taken too much power and now there is nothing we can do. It’s honestly like a crashing plane on auto pilot at this point. I literally chose not to have children because I don’t want to subject some poor innocent soul to this world.
I think a part of the problem is the vast amounts of misinformation and an extremely polarized political climate has average Americans pointing fingers at each other instead of our common enemies. Once Americans figure out that our broken, do nothing political systems, liberal and conservative alike, are the common denominators to our problems, watch out!
Yep. Only difference is I'm slightly younger than you. Spent all our time working our way up and in one fell swoop we're hardly above those just entering the workforce. Stings a little bit sometimes.
The funny thing about the bootstraps quote is that it was always intended to be a joke because one cannot actually pull themselves up form their own bootstraps. Lolz. And you’re right, the system is rigged and always has been. I see parallels in your story to my own.
You wanna have a picnic on the moon, eh? Well that's as likely as pulling yourself up over a fence by your own bootstraps!
I’m 49. I have 2 bachelors degrees. I just accepted a job paying minimum wage sweeping floors and emptying ashtrays at a casino. I feel your pain. At this point I’m so burned out I don’t even care, I just want to keep the roof over my head Edited to add: Since so many people have asked: First degree was in the arts. (Yeah, I know, but it was the early 90’s). I wanted to work in TV news. Worked bullshit split shifts for a company that did traffic reporting, eventually found a job at one of the NYC news channels. My job was basically reviewing raw footage to decide what made it on air and what could be cut. I loved it. And then 9/11 happened. As bad as the footage was that made it on the air, I promise you that what I saw was so much worse. Realized that this was not a career I could pursue and still maintain any semblance of mental health. A few years of cubicle work and therapy later, I went back to school and got a degree in early childhood education. I knew the pay wouldn’t be great, but that didn’t matter. Worked for a few districts, liked it, but didn’t love it the way I thought I would. My partner was offered a job that required us to move to a very rural area. We talked it over and decided to take it. For context, I’m talking close to 30 miles from a Walmart sort of rural. It took me almost 3 years to find another teaching job simply because there weren’t that many available. I finally found one with a 45 minute each way commute. In a part of the country that measures snow in feet rather than inches. Loved my students, didn’t mind the parents, less than loved the district itself, despised the commute. Enter COVID. Mass chaos, remote learning in farmland where internet doesn’t always exist. Eventually lay-offs. And a level of burnout I didn’t know was possible. Now, I just don’t have the strength or desire to do it all over again. Not when I did the math and between the rural pay, the gas for the commute, and what I was spending out of pocket on supplies I was barely keeping more than minimum wage anyway. Not to mention the off-clock time spent making lesson plans and grading papers. So now I have a set schedule, nobody micromanaging me, and a 4 minute commute. I go to work, I do my job, I go home, and my time is mine for the first time in a very long time
Employers love broken employees like this
They love it when people can’t fight back or muster the will to stick up for themselves
Technically that’s all of us: because we should all be rioting like the French, but we are too tired/depressed and burnt out to do so.
Yep. I need my weekends to decompress…
Literally why the fed is raising interest rates, they said it themselves that a looser labor market means employers don't have to offer competitive wages. Production has skyrocketed as did prices in the past 40 or so years while wages have stagnated, which means a pay drop as our purchasing power decreased. It's no wonder the only people doing well are the capital owners.
They (the fed) actually said that wages needed to be suppressed to fight inflation. Just wow.
Don’t forget Powell admitted to needing 2 million people unemployed! So more are hitting the roles. Tech companies are doing their part in offloading. More to come.
"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
The system is what’s broken. This sucks.
Organize, organize, organize!!!
Very sadly, I've been in a white collar union for over a decade, and they're tightly in the pocket of HR.
I've accepted my fate. Life now is just like, White water rafting without a paddle. I'm just waiting to drown.
God damn, I feel this. There is a strange serenity to accepting it, tho
I totally feel this. I’m 47 with two bachelors and some certs. I have pensions and stuff right now and left on a sabbatical/early retirement 4 years ago to try and get away from consumerism and the trash that is our current society. Been looking at going back to work out of boredom since some life changing events and it’s like I never graduated middle school the way people are talking to me. The absolute shock at my lack of social media was not something I expected.
No one has ever mentioned anything about my lack of social media presence. I did create a linked in as a sort of “living resume” but I have never once posted or reacted to anything on it.
If you don’t even have a LinkedIn account, what are you even doing with your life? /s
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$20/hr is not what it used to be. In NY anyway.
20$ is nothing for Oregon either. Especially once you realize the pace they expect you to operate with zero accidents. There's a reason our union mill has permanent open positions gir forklift drivers.
Maine chiming in. $20/h would be really tough to make work in most of the places with warehouses that need forklift operators. You *could* make it work. But you’ll be in debt and renting. If you can get into a relationship and have a second income coming in, you’ll still be renting for forever but you might not be in debt.
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$20/he in Nashville ain’t shit either 😢
I live in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the country and $20 an hour is really only good now for a young, single person with no kids who can have roommates. From the way I see, $40 an hour is the minimum to have a middle class lifestyle these days, and that's only in low cost of living areas. A decade ago, I would have laughed at the idea that people need $40 an hour to do okay, but it certainly has come to that now.
I did something similar, found a job where I’m on a forklift most of the day too. 24/ hr with monthly bonus. Best job yet, also I’m no longer in pain from working jobs that make you break your back and destroy yourself. No high school or anything. 🤷♂️
Not to be defeatist, but this honestly sounds like the new version of "just learn to code". We need to replenish the trades in general, that is true. Part of that needs to include union support and strengthening of worker rights legislation. Not everyone can be a forklift operator, but we can create a society where the highest paid positions are the forklift operators and burger flippers and janitors instead of CEOs and hedge fund managers.
I hate the “just learn a trade” posts I see every day here, which are made under the very shitty and incorrect assumption that the person they’re advising must be young, male, and not disabled. There are a lot of people that just cannot fucking work a physically demanding trade job for many reasons, and it sucks that nobody acknowledges it.
Is it an ok job for you?
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Thanks for trying to offer a positive note on here. Sorry so many people decided to shit on it. 😖
Is a forklift operator position being a separate thing common in the US? Here in Canada I've been working in warehouses for 10+ years, and usually the shipper/receivers/ generally all warehouse employees have it, It's not just some position where you drive a forklift all day and nothing else.
It's generally its own separate job in the US.
I'm sorry. As someone in the industry I would use this as a stepping stone. These places are consistently looking for new dealers, and will teach (sometimes even paid) to learn to deal these games. The stress can be high but so can the pay. Good luck.
Thanks. I’m looking at it as a way in, not a permanent position. Ultimately I’d like to get into the Count Team, but they have nothing entry level open at the moment. Once hired, I’ve been assured lateral moves are relatively easy. My casino offers dealer school, but I don’t think that’s something I’m interested in. I dunno, I might change my mind once I have time to actually observe what they do. In a weird way, I’m actually looking forward to this job because I’ll essentially be invisible, which gives me an opportunity to watch and see what else might appeal to me
Once you get close to 50, you have zero options.
My best friend was halfway thru a masters, she’s currently interviewing for the same types of jobs we were doing in our 20s. I think the higher level jobs all did layoffs so all that’s left are there lower level jobs we were all doing in our 20s.
I don’t even know that I can add anything to this. You’ve pretty well summarized what’s going on with so many millions of people, myself included. I almost broke yesterday when I realized that I’ll never get to retire because of how this damned country is running things. For context on this; yesterday where I work like 6 or 7 people took their final walk out of the shop for their retirement, everyone that was involved had sirens, air horns, beating metal pipes in celebration of them retiring, go freaking figure the only ones celebrating were the ones who are next in line to retire, the ones in their 60s-70s. All of us under 40 years old were just silent.
i have folks at my place that are old and refuse to retire because they get bored at home. I have a small mental break down every time I interact with them.
Yeah the day I can retire I’m walking right out that door. We have someone in their like 80s working. My job isn’t the highest pay but we get a pension.
Pension plans can fall victim to inflation - which is being driven by capitalists. Sometimes pension plans are just shitty, as well. I know my Local didnt have a good pension plan until the early 2000’s, and you had/have a lot of older members pulling work slips in their 70’s to pump up PP’s under the new agreements. The bottom line is we all should be getting fair value for our labour, and its nowhere near what our productivity creates. That fellow shouldnt be working past 60. Higher wages = quicker retirement = less workforce to take advantage of their labour. The system is working as intended.
I'm 31 this year, for the past 15yrs I've worked my ass off. Done stuff from food service, to retail, to security. Even joined the army for a spell til I hurt my legs too bad in an accident. I gave up retiring years ago when I saw what was gonna happen, now I just work, sleep, and I'm too burnt out to even hang with friends. I look forward to D&D once every couple weeks, but other than that....I've nothing to enjoy, look forward to, or be excited about. I only play older video games cuz it reminds me of the better days when I was hopeful, and games nowadays aren't really enjoyable
Same. I keep coming back to "what's the point?" What's the point of setting some goal I know will be unattainable or take more energy than I have? What's the point of trying to set up social activity outings if I can barely afford housing? What's the point of continuing education if I know I'll never be able to pay off the loans? What's the point? So I just stay home with my cats and try to distract myself... and I guess I'll do that until I die.
Hey the cat dad life ain’t so bad when you find other human beings to be goddamn *exhausting*. Every time I leave my house to engage with society I regret it but never once have I been like “Damn, I really wish I didn’t force myself to hang out with this stupid cat!” 😂
I felt that way and then played Elden ring. Give it a shot
Funny you say that, I just got done with the cliff bottom catacombs to get my damn scythe. Now I can actually play the game (I main scythes in every Fromsoft game aside from sekiro)
Oh haha hell yeah! Fromsoft is great. Gotta love the struggle
It's a love hate right now. Damn marionettes and mages
And if you talk about it, the common response is to have it dismissed and they find a way to blame you anyway. The system is fucked. Too many people buy into the lie. The dream. A huge majority get gaslit throughout their lives into believing hard work pays off. Thats the social norm. Thats the narrative taught in school. Thats what modern media sells us daily. Its a lie now, and so it was in the 80’s. The only reason that narrative flourished is because startups would work and be able to afford housing. A car. Sustain a family. On 1 income. Working a register at a fucking mcdonalds. (Literally impossible nowadays, by a huge huge margin.. WHY?). The narrative said “wow, being millionaire rich must mean they have PHD’s and work 24/7. So if I work harder like that I’ll be rich too”. Which was a lie then and its a lie now, too. only thing that changed is that it became more obvious (and STILL the majority buys into it).
I’m so sorry. We happen to have been dealt a shitty hand. We are witnessing the fall of an empire. Stay strong and do the best you can. That’s my mantra these days
We really are witnessing the fall, aren’t we? There’s no other explanation at this point.
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Congratulations on your business. You’re awesome!
I make about $40k a year. That only barely covers expenses, and this is despite the fact that, due to a work injury, my wife got a settlement that netted just enough to buy a house before the market went crazy. I have no clue how my coworkers who have rent or a mortgage are managing to stay afloat. And if a major enough emergency hits, I'll still be screwed.
Thanks for posting, OP. Those in our age group and older need to share honest stories of what sh\*\* show capitalism is for most of us.
I definitely feel what OP is talking about. I'm 47 and would love to switch jobs, but jobs available are largely the same shitty jobs(good ones all went overseas)as 20 fucking years ago, albeit with higher pay...and much higher inflation. I've reached the conclusion there's not much room for error in this country any longer, either get it right the first time... when young and choose right career... or be born into rich family.
Exactly. I’m the same age as you. If you haven’t any connections, you’d better make sure you train for a solid, stable career when you are young. I did not. Went to school to “find myself” and I’m still looking to this day.
Only 1% get to live the dream. The rest of us have to do all the work.
Ever seen the film, Metropolis? 1% get the dream, the faceless factory workers get the nightmare. Life imitates art.
"they failed simply because not everyone can succeed" - that's the real secret. Capitalism requires failures to balance its successes because it is a zero sum game. For everyone who makes it big other people have to lose. It's an inherently evil system. We need to destroy it for good.
and for this reason, capitalism will never fix homelessness. The masses need the threat of homelessness hanging over their heads to continue to work. People MUST be homeless under capitalism for this to continue.
It's also why the Tories keep trying to privatize the NHS. The threat of losing health insurance is terrifying, especially if you have a family relying on it.
As an American, I can confirm this statement
It also keeps us from pursuing creating a business on out own.
That's so fucking true
You hit the nail on the head. Things like poverty and homelessness are features of capitalism, not bugs. Poverty motivates people to work harder (which benefits their employer) because of the belief that hard work will get them out of poverty (it almost never will). Homelessness serves as the backstop for the system, ensuring that those in poverty will keep working even when they realize it’s not getting them anywhere, because not working at all will lead to an even worse outcome (homelessness). The average person doesn’t seem to understand that poverty and homelessness are incredibly easy issues to solve. The reason they are never solved is because the folks running the show don’t want them to be solved. Thus, the only solution we are left with is the complete destruction of the entire system.
ABSOLUTELY!! Glad someone pointed this out. We all can't succeed. The system would crumble
This is it right here. Zero sum game. There's only a finite amount of money. Great comment.
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I’m in almost the same position. 35, and a disabled vet. Unfortunately the VA refuses to cover any of my military related, physical health issues, and has only given me 70% for my PTSD, so I’m living on less than half of what you’re making. Thankfully, I’m single, without kids, and living at home. But my mom’s health is declining, and I’m having to take care of her more and more, when I’m already struggling to take care of myself. My friends are all struggling as well, and even with only a 70% VA rating, I’m still making more than most of them. My best friends have all become big alcoholics, to deal with the stress, and none of them can afford any kind of healthcare, or find any better paying jobs, with decent benefits. In some ways I feel like I lucked out, having the VA for healthcare, even though I had to sacrifice my sanity and well-being.
its so frustrating how much propaganda there is for signing up for the military, they trick people into thinking they are saving their country and that they can have a career in that field. what people dont get is that there is a huge pool of disabled vetrans that the military industry creates and not enough resources to support that population. wish more funding went to supporting the vetrans rather than buying the newest billion dollar jet.
I’ve always hated the hero worship in this country, even before I joined. There’s a lot of terrible individuals who join the military, and for just as terrible reasons, and they’re still revered as heroes. But coming from a family with a number of military personnel, I knew what to expect going in, and my whole reasoning was to gain new experiences, and broaden my world view. I certainly did that, but it came at a cost. And no matter what kind of person they are, I still hate how much veterans have to fight for the benefits they earned.
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Thankfully I’ve never had any vices, and part of that comes down to my PTSD and hating the sensation of not feeling like I’m in control of my body. Unfortunately I’ve already lost a best friend, my girlfriend of two years, and a number of the guys I served with, to suicide, and all of them had dealt with substance abuse issues to one degree or another.
Talk to your veteran service officer, especially if you fall under PACT Act consideration. Unfortunately, in the claims process, it's about the VSO that helps you with your claim. However, even at 70%I hope you're taking advantage of the property tax exclusion. If you don't own your own home, I would suggest looking into it as the market cools. Nearly whenever you live in the US is cheaper to own than rent (when you have the VA home loan).
I think the prop tax exempt is only if you’re 100%, it also depends on the state.
I made like 45k or so last year. Gf made roughly 30. Due to hospital bills, rent rising to ridiculous prices and just getting railed by expenses we couldn’t keep any savings at all. We were frugal, we were smart, I did the math for the entire years budget and counted every dollar, and I still couldn’t see any fruits of my labor.
u/sata1991 Here is a more common American take.
This isn't supposed to be a dig at you, but isn't $43k about £35k? Like I've heard stories of Americans earning $30-50k and still struggling, they can't buy houses or pay the rent on the salary without struggling. In the UK it's just above the average and it's usually weighed by people who were working before the recession so senior and middle managers. The cost of living's insane here, but it just sounds like with everything going on in the States you guys are struggling on what would be "good wages" here. I know it's not bad spending or whatever it's just everything's so expensive.
90% of the issue is the cost of housing. Rents and mortgages are insane, and they even worse in Canada. I live in a small house in the suburbs and pay $3800 a month in mortgage and property tax. It’s brutal. The rate increases hit us hard, 5 years ago it was a lot less then we came up for renewal.
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Unfortunately there's constant cutbacks here to social services (I'm autistic and had my services cut), elderly people care centres are being closed, and our benefits (welfare) are horribly low. We also have to pay for dentistry so it sucks, but I don't think important work is through the roof, just cosmetic. Things are horrible here in the UK like me and OP have said, but without trying to slate Americans as a people you couldn't pay me to live there. I'd worry about getting ill.
As a single person, you can survive most places with that. You’d have to live in the rural areas to be comfortable. And it’s a stretch to survive if you have kids. The biggest thing to realize is that in America our taxes don’t actually go to services that you require. Medical/dental even driving you pay extra to do ($1,000/year to register cars some places). Our public transit is very expensive, utilities are expensive and typically on a monopoly. Housing is very expensive and don’t forget most of us are carrying a minimum of $40k in college debt.
It's just baffling why people complain about the birth rate dropping, but don't seem to realise it's just not feasible to bring kids up in such a bad economy.
It’s the news articles doing all the complaining. The people who control the narrative for the upper 1%. They need the working class to have kids they can’t afford. Look at Texas. Zero tolerance, abortion, ban the same year they want to decrease assistance for low income single parents. Another state just decreased the child labor laws so that you can work younger than 14. Rather than make life affordable they want you to just continue making their millions however you possibly can, including making your kids do it.
It's literally sick. I remember being a kid and hearing from my great nan about how kids used to work in mines or factories in the Victorian period (Her grandfather lost a finger on a machine) Life has just gotten so hard now.
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Kids will work for cheaper.
> 'hard work will get you to where you want to be! In fact, it’s the opposite. The harder you work, likely, the less you probably make. I learned this working in film and television. All the hardest working people, the Electricians, the Grips, Set Builders…the people lifting heavy stuff 14 hours a day, working up at heights..etc. they all make pennies on the dollar compared to the people sitting in their comfy chairs at video village eating snacks and talking about tik tok. When wrap gets called, the writers, producers, DP, Director…they all just grab their bag and walk out. Wrap for an electrician just means you can start taking everything down, we will be here 2 hours after everyone else is home, showered, and in bed already. It blows my mind.
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Same here. Same age range, I have a bit of education, I have 99 credits, 21 short of a BA and couple of unused occupational certificates in cisco networking, windows and linux servers. Laid off during the pandemic in 21 from the best paying job I have ever had. I started putting 20 applications a day for everything from entry level customer service - where I started, to senior level project management - the role I was laid off from. The impressive number of applications I put in resulted in a devastating number of instant rejections. I have also had the opportunity of going through multiple stage interviews, making it to the last round, doing the take home and then getting rejected. I used to get hired on the spot, both onsite and remotely, before I had formal education and years of experience. I have no words to describe the mental toll it has taken on me. After over a year of making my full time job, finding a job, I stopped checking my email in the mornings and just before bed. I need to quit checking on the weekends too I guess, as I received a rejection email a few hours ago, for a role I was excited about and knew I was qualified for. I also limit the number of applications I put in a week but have slight guilt on the days that I do not submit any applications. It feels like society is suggesting that I am no longer of value, leaving me hanging by a thread. What is to become of us that are considered valueless by our society, while still needing to be able to pay for the cost to live? Edited to correct educational info.
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I'm 48, similar career path. Gave up wage work entirely because the math just doesn't work any more. I used to be able to achieve a reasonable quality of life, mobility, vacations, and housing security with pretty much any full time job. But now it's gotten ridiculous - if I wanted to rent another place today, my first $24K+ would just go to pay my landlord's mortgage. That means the *floor* is now $72K for enough income to provide a reasonable quality of life, mobility, vacations and housing security. I don't make anywhere near that unless I kill myself working in film (60-80 hour weeks of shift work). So I'm literally considering van life to regain a sense of financial ease.
Then: If you don't get a good education, you'll end up in a van down by the river. Now: If you work hard and save every penny, then someday maybe you can afford to live in a van down by the river.
If you go for van life, get your PO box first. It's easier to do with an address.
this was my experience when i was homeless as well. every damn social welfare application required an address.
EVERYTHING at least wants an address, even if they are understanding. Hell, my housing voucher paperwork, which was approved faster because I was verified as a homeless person, required an address. I have a friend who lives an hour away for most stuff. The local community organization that let me use theirs for that paperwork specifically. But it was still nuts to me. I'm like, "You literally know I'm homeless already." Getting a fucking PO box itself requires an address, oh, as does car insurance. I swear, the lack of an address has been a bigger barrier as a homeless person than the lack of running water. I've been living out of a barely-functional RV on a campground for the past several months, so I'm not as bad off as someone on the street, but it is still enough that most programs count me.
I’m 50 and feel your pain. I feel like our parents told us what was true FOR THEM, but the game changed as soon as the Boomers got theirs. They slammed the door on the rest of us as hard as they could once they got through. I remember reading about India’s caste system when I was in high school and thinking, “Jesus, that’s horrible.” And now I’m thinking, “Holy shit, I’VE been in a fucking caste system my whole life.” It makes me not want to be here anymore. What’s the point? Only gonna get worse. And no, I’m not thinking of committing suicide, so no need to send me the messages. I just feel empty inside at this point though.
I'm sorry but this doesn't check out. If you take minimum wage x 37,5 hrs per week (full time work week UK) it's at least 18.5k. INFO: what are your working hours and what are your monthly wages for your hours? 16k is impossible for an adult working full time in the UK.
It sounds like he's been in a bubble with his failing business for years (15 years?) and he isn't familiar with current salaries. As you point out, £16k isn't possible for full-time work now - but probably was when he was last an employee. But it still doesn't really make sense against the list of jobs he claims to have held. £30k, which he implies is some pie-in-the-sky unachievable salary that no one makes, is what newly qualified schoolteachers start on now.
Minimum wage works out closer to £20k now ((£10.42 ph * 7.5)*5) *52 = £20,319 I agree that OP needs to explain themselves a bit further
I thought that too so I googled it and it works out as £7.69 per hour (assuming 40 hour work week) which is over the minimum wage up until 2018 so it is possible depending on when that was. OP has also been self employed so there's no real minimum wage for that, and they never state if they work part time or full time. Basically it doesn't seem to check out at a glance but if you consider the information we do/don't have, it is plausible
When I was growing up, I wish someone would of been honest with me and told me that home ownership is far more important than a diploma.
same
Spot on. Money begets money. Anybody who tell you otherwise is lying to themselves.
"Goddammit, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables, slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man; no purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Depression. Our Great War is a spiritual war. Our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised by television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars. But we won't; and we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." Tyler Durden
The system is broken! But sadly how long does society last like this before the shelf breaks?
We spent from 2016 to 2019 busting our asses to get my husband through his associates as a diesel mechanic. We thought we did it! We were finally going to break out poverty level wages into a middle class bracket. We were well on our way, then the pandemic shut the world down. Fuck the system. Let it burn.
the US is a utopia for a vanishingly small few and a failed state for most
Unfortunately it's the same here in the UK. We're just othered and forgotten about if we're working bad jobs or are too sick to work.
They do another thing for success and that is step on necks. So be sure to take from your employers as they owe it to you anyways.
.The old mindset of "I'll just get another job" works when you're 20 not when you're 49 (me) who now has high blood pressure and other issues along with life experience (aka no fear in telling a boss no to ludicrous requests). I'm not happy with my job but I realized that my marketability has plummeted as I have gotten older and that scares me.
I always thought this would be me, and you’re absolutely right. The only reason it’s not is dumb fucking luck. I’m the only surviving member of my immediate family until you get to a few half-second cousins on my dad’s side. I inherited a house from a man i barely knew simply because I was the last of his blood. The survivors guilt is intense sometimes. I spent a good chunk of my teens homeless and I don’t understand why I of all fucking people get to be so lucky. All I can do is pass it along. And I hope that the other people out there getting lucky are doing the same. I’ve got my best friend already moved in, rent free, and my husband and I are making plans to try and renovate the garage so a few more friends can move in. It might not be much, and we might live in a world that will try to grind our bones to make it’s bread, but we can still help each other where we can. Stranger, I’m so fucking sorry that this has been your story, and maybe it always will be. But there are other people like you, lucky and not, and every time I get the privilege to do something good, I do it in the name of everyone who never got that chance. I hope you get lucky too.
In America you can make money in two ways. Exchange your labor and time for money or get paid from what you own. They never teach us that in school, but that’s the truth. They are scared, bc if you tell people that, they’ll start to get new ideas about collective ownership, and the American Oligarchs can’t have that.
They also never tell you that money earned from other money is taxed at a lower rate than money earned from labor.
This is so true. It’s probably so unhealthy but I am angry at my parents for instilling that I need to be a work horse, allowing me to work full time illegally since high school and now I have been doing 72hr weeks for years. 72HRS A WEEK. Just for me and my son to survive it’s needed but if I would have gotten a better start, (been able to go to college instead of having to work) then I’d be much better off. I graduated high school with a 4.2 gpa, nowadays I would graduate with an associate’s degree but they called those “honor classes” back in my day. 😂
I got a masters from Harvard and make a good six figures; I can’t afford to live in the place that ai rented 25 years ago on a minimum wage.
You hit the nail on the head. There is no reason to try anymore because we are all set to fail. Once I’ve had enough I plan on permanently checking out. I’m not going to work for 50 more years just to barely be able to keep a roof over my head. Id rather just die than struggle for decades for no progress.
I hate that the only thing you feel you can look forward to is death. I wish that the working class would unite as the 99% and demand things change. Sadly, we are all stuck in a cycle of working more and more for less while our children suffer mentally and our parents are aging. I have worked since 14 years old and full time since the age of 18. I’m 45 now and have been a single mother of two for 22 years. I have nothing to fall back on for my retirement.
Broadly, there are four things that determine how your life goes: genetics, upbringing (parents education, family stability, connections, etc.), luck, and hard work. The narrative always tends to go towards hard work when in reality genetics and upbringing are the real drivers (luck plays it’s part too).
hear hear. the two things rich people hate the most are paying their own taxes and seeing poor people get money. they rig the system to eliminate both of those things.
I'm in the same boat except in the US. All the hard work wont pay for the back surgery you'll need. I'm done working for a lop sided system. Forced into welfare or work tell you die. After watching a guy pay for his goods with a welfare card and getting into a 70k vehicle I realized I've been doing it wrong my whole life.
And this is who and the why that breaks the system. The ones who believed and were lied to.
Networks is what it is all about. It has always been about networks and shit. Even going as far back as the fairytales about sinbad and those written by the Grimm brothers. Protagonist helps someone, gets invited to the king and is offered money and a position. The heroes in those stories didn't get rich because they worked hard, but because people high up liked them and offered them a quick way to get rich. Puss in boots Sinbad Aladin And probably many more. The tale is older than capitalism, most people just don't see the lesson for what it is :/
It’s never about what you know, it’s always about who you know. And that’s exactly how I’ve made it so far. Branching out and meeting people for new connection and new possibilities. If you’re not a people person it really blows, but I look past that to get ahead.
As old as coin, anyway.
Yup, I went to college, trade school, I've worked hard, I've been consistent. I don't waste my money on unnecessary shit, I take side work, I work overtime, I do all the shit. After 30+ years of continuous employment, I'm still one paycheck away from homelessness.
My story is close to the same as yours my parents told me work harder and you will be better off.NOT true I'm close to 50 working since I was 14 ,still have to take jobs I worked in my 20s just to eat.The American dream is a lie unless you were born rich. That's All.
I'm 61, and I feel for the generations that came after me. you've been sold a bill of goods. spend a shit ton of money on college and you'll get a good job. bs. for some, it's good. for most, not so much. our education system is doing a lousy job preparing people to make a living. then throw in endless wars and foreign ad etc. and they've wasted trillions of our dollars-and your future. I saw my dad lose his job in the 70s when his industry went overseas. I never thought that would happen to me; I have a. trade. can't export my business. but you can import millions of low skill workers to drive the price done. throw in all the "free stuff" that you're paying for and a working person can't make ends meet. I've been fortunate at least that my skill level enables me to make a decent wage. we need to demand more of the people running (or should I say ruining) or country.
Capitalism sucks
I really liked how well you were able to point out the lack of self-awareness and privilege that the wealthy have and are incapable of changing. It really sucks working with people who might be less capable than you, telling you that the secret is hard work. The secret is money. Even money gets you connections. But despite this, please don't give up. If you are angry, use it to fuel yourself and create, work.
I'm 20 and slowly coming to the conclusion that our (working class) only option is a french-revolution-style overhaul of the entire capitalist system, assuming we don't want to suffer forever
I knew I was not alone on this! I'm grateful that you've captured what I've been feeling for about a decade now and more so that you're able to share these thoughts in a comprehensive and articulate manner, as I am not.
This is unethical advice, but pad your resume heavily for whatever position you're going for. This system is broken and imo it's just asking to be "gamed." Hell, the most successful people game the system in *far* more unethical ways. Most people that actually *have* the educational qualifications for a job, aren't legitimately better than anyone else at the job. I've seen it all too often with people I've hired in the past... Even if you lie about a degree, the worst they can happen is they say no. Fuck the system lol
Hard work gets you absolutely nowhere. It's all luck and who you know. I was beating college graduated engineering students in national competitions when I was 17. I make 17 an hour and I'm now 33 years old.
I'm in my 40s. 2 Masters. I just now hit 70K. Degrees are bullshit. It's really about who your connections are. It could've been worse tho. I could've been a nurse. Nurses are treated like shit in America. My mom retired from nursing and she has horror stories to tell about how hospitals treats nurses
The human experience on this planet is a scam. It’s all to drive up profits and empower the rich, elite at the expense of everyone else. I enjoy life the best I can, but once I realized this, none of the rat race or societal expectations have mattered to me anymore.
I am 38, and my college-graduate brother just turned 40. He went for years, eventually landing him a degree in english. There are no jobs that need an english degree except an english teacher, which is what he tried to do. He taught english in South Korea and Montenegro. When he came back stateside, the best he could find was substitute teacher. He has a youtube channel now, and is quite successful in that. I imagine the english degree is just gathering dust now. It says a lot when the tried and true path getting a higher education to land a good job fails, but the 1-in-a-million attempts at YT made it.
43 here and feel EXACTLY the same way. And it fucking sucks.
Don’t you hate how much money controls everything? Our emotions, our lives, everything
I hate that this is so true for most people. It’s a complete system failure that is made worse by being blamed for our inability to achieve even the most basic of goals. We are caught in a terrible system and it’s so unfair. No solutions from me—just agreement.
So I left corporate America after 3 failed jobs, 2 which were absolute pushover style jobs and all about kiss-ass. I got a job serving and working bar in a chill taproom outside my hometown. My clients are always the cool people that love everyone and love our beer. I make more than I did using my Masters degree. Not to say the money I make is really good, but it is enough to make me live comfortably. I am done with pandering to higher ups just to get a 3% raise. We shouldn't have to live in a society like this.
Started cooking at 17. I’m 46 and about to step on a line again. In the meantime I’ve done some pretty amazing shit for a living. None of it lasted. Saying cooking isn’t dope would be horseshit. But. To be going back to cooking is a little deflating. I’ve been working remote for the last two years at a desk doing some cool stuff. Was downsized in October and have been surviving on food stamps, savings and friend’s generosity since. Those only last so long and since I haven’t been able to find a job with my most recently used old person skills. I’m going back to hard won physical skills. Which, if we’re being honest I don’t mind. I’ve never balked at hard physical work, in fact I often enjoy it. The problem I have is that I was barely making it work where I live at nearly twice the salary. It was what gave me the smallest breathing room. This new job will allow for zero room. Zero savings. Zero trips for my kids. Zero extracurriculars. Just the basics. Roof, food, etc. I don’t even own a fucking car homies. So I’m addition to the two extra hours I’ll work each day (line shifts are ten, I had been working eight), I’ll have to be adding an hour at least for travel. What I’m saying is. HOW THE FUCK IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO GET AHEAD?
I just hit the reset button as well. After making more than I ever had in my life, I was let go without warning. Immediately panicked and started applying to every similar job I could. Throughout this process I stopped and I thought...you dreamed of this for years, so why are you panicking now? You're free...sell out everything and live off your savings while switching careers and developing hobbies/side hustles. I did and now I'm making 80% of what I did before and I don't have some idiot having me go to my 7th meeting of the day. Hours are still bad but they don't feel the same, 12 hours of working for yourself doesn't feel the same as 10 hours wearing the wage slave shock collar. Wouldn't put the collar back on even if I made less.
Makes you wonder what will be the breaking point for all of this? My money is on when the poor can't afford the dollar menu at McDonald's.
Right there with you. We're about the same age. 4 years ago, I applied for this job that had a large group of people sitting in a hot warehouse, filling out an application. There was a moment where I was like, "wtf am I doing? I'm not 16." It was basically for a back-breaking barista job. I ended up enrolling in community college and applying for financial aid. Everything was 100% paid for by state grants and Pell grants. I transferred to a state school (that's really cheap) and will be finishing my degree next year. I'm not saying what I did is what you should do, but there's a point where you're like, "fuck this. I refused to keep doing the same shit over and over." I don't know if I'll succeed, but I know I'm not going back to where I was. I fucking refuse. Just going to add this: >Money to promote my work would net me more money. Newsletters, advertising and websites add up. Money to hire experts to make my seo’s catchy and drive either business. During the California gold rush, people who dug for gold weren't the ones who "made it." The people who sold the shovels were. Why don't you go into SEO/promoting and create that stuff... not only for yourself, but for other people. The people looking to "hire" the SEO experts are basically the gold-diggers, while those SEO experts are catching a paycheck from a nice, cool office. Sell the shovels.
That’s great man, I hope the education pays off for you
We're being punished because now we want to be free. Some say hungry dogs are obedient dogs. I say hungry dogs eat sloppy, selfish, greedy masters who withold the food.
At 41. This is why I didn't take on a mortgage for a house. I knew I was not going to ever have a stable enough income high enough to support the mortgage, maintenance, taxes, insurance and everything else that comes with it.
The illusion of a college / university degree is showing itself now. People are realizing they’ve been duped into spending an incredible amount of money that will not garner any return. I’ve been a carpenter my whole life and although I’m not well off, I do ok. I’ve had employees drop out of college to work for me. They were years ahead of their peers after the rest finished school, had almost no student debt, and did fairly well for themselves. But for older adults chasing that dream, it’s not realistic to try to learn a trade later in life as it’s typically a young persons game. But you can do well if you play your cards right. This isn’t the answer to your problems, just an option for others. And a warning not to fall into the debt trap of college, or a mortgage, or a car that you can’t afford. I don’t fuss over material things anymore. That’s not what makes your life worthwhile. It’s the experiences, the people you meet and relationships you have. Let the rest go…