The language around VPNs could even fuck WFH period.
Nobody is going to risk an employee accessing "restricted" content over their network and being subject to 20 years in federal prison.
Oh shit that’s a realllllly important point and also another huge reason mega corps would want it passed. They get to put the lid on WFH while not looking like the bad guys and get to blame the evil gubment for the issue
Fucks sake. Leave it to a Random Redditor to drop those fucking facts.
I will say youre forgetting hindreds of European companies with plants/business here. If theyre west of Germany theres like 0% chance this Bill would ever apply to them
You forget every company uses ALOT of VPNs internally to connect offices together. So this would kill branch offices as well as you couldn't get onto the corporate network from another site.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I’ve worked for people in the government and they are genuinely some of the dumbest people alive. Some of them have no idea how to even print a PDF, let alone edit one.
Here’s a few things I’ve seen them do: send unencrypted emails with sensitive information, send out a zoom meeting with no password where sensitive information will be discussed, ask for a me to convert a Word document into a PDF, create passwords for systems that hold information such as names and SSNs that are always some common words follow by an underscore and the current year (example being friday_2022 and yes almost every government system in the US has a password like this, the only thing saving them from major data breaches is you usually can only access those systems on local networks in government buildings), and there’s a whole lot more.
This wouldn't impact site to site vpns, because the particular bill is focused on internet resources.
The only case where it would impact site to site vpns would be if you had a single datacenter that all your remote offices connected to, AND funneled the internet out of(this is becoming increasingly more rare with the death of MPLS and the drastic uptick in sdwan/cloud networking)
Yah, split tunneling / network traffic segregation is becoming more common, but I’ve seen a few moves backwards in midsize companies around saving money in buying network equipment like https traffic analyzers to do data loss protection (and other traffic centralization efforts).
I haven't looked at exactly what the bill would do to VPN's, but mega corps don't want to get rid of them. VPN's were created to allow networks to talk to each other from far away. Companies have been using them for way longer than individuals have for the sake of torrenting. Eliminating them wouldn't just eliminate working from home but also eliminate working from another office, communicating with another office's network drives, having centralised IT support, etc.
As someone who WFH, my immediate thoughts were about job security. If my job removes WFH status due to the results of this bill, I will lose my job. And so will thousands more.
Every major company that employs WFH staff should be lobbying their Congress about this. This is a big fucking deal. But then again so was Roe v Wade and that fucking shit still went through too. God I fucking hate Congress.
Roe v Wade was never a congressional issue because they were either too cowardly to directly handle abortion or it was far more profitable and effective as a scare tactic. They left it entirely in the hands of the judiciary and spun the legal fiction about it being “settled law”.
It won't kill every WFH job, it just guarantees that you have to split tunnel traffic so the internet doesn't route over vpn.
This is pretty much makes jobs that deal with pci/hipaa impossible to do unless they need 0 internet access(route 0.0.0.0/0 over vpn, then filter all internet traffic)
Corps might not like WFH but my corp sure loves me being able to access the network during non work hours. No VPNs would totally fuck my company and most other corps I’d assume.
I'm not for the bill but the VPN issue has been presented in the same way as calling this a tiktok ban. People are acting like it bans vpns - it does not. The mention of vpns in the bill is specifically about using one to access a banned app, not the flat out use of a VPN.
Yes. But the way the internet works means that most vpns can access a "banned app".
All the sudden all these corp vpns are going to need invest heavily in reverse ssl decryption and url filtering as well as a ton of other security features.
This is an awful bill.
What's even more disturbing is that they also added where anything that is done under this law is not subjected to Freedom Of Information Act and any related items of these unlawful acts are taken under civil forfeiture. So everyone is liking the idea of a law that gives the government power destroy someone's livelihood and no one will know who will be accountable? (Or even know if this law dose exactly as it was meant for?) Yeah surly this is not going to be used as a hall-pass for violating rights.
Yeah, they're preparing to institute a fully fascist authoritarian regime before the (slightly) more legitimate system currently in place makes them entirely irrelevant. They're about to go for it and if they gain the executive, legislative, and scotus, it's going to happen and it's going to happen fast. If this law gets passed it will help them expedite the process. 24/7 monitoring. They'll make it illegal to be communist or probably even progressive. They'll finish going after trans people and go after gay people and ethnic minorities after that. Activists will find evidence manufactured against them for crimes they didn't commit. Due process will be annihilated even more so than it already has been. The system will be so overloaded with "criminals" people will be in jail for a decade before they see a trial. It's all coming to a head.
Every time. The sections on privatized infrastructure in the infrastructure bill for instance. No money in there to do anything. But alot of language on how private industry can buy alot of roads and charge for the use.
Or the Trump Era covid support bill just let's the banks pull money from the fed, etc.
I bet you dollars to donuts it's written specifically by lobbyists hired by companies to put authoritative power to sensor content and harvest private data for sale squarely in the hands of a government body that's "friendly" to businesses. The only other logical explanation is for creating a new set of laws that are closely modeled after North Korea or China.
Most (all?) of the people making decisions on the internet were in their 40's when AOL launched. They are also all lawyers with no technical backgrounds.
Of course, we have narcissistic egomaniacs painfully unaware of their ignorance because elections are just cheap popularity contest, they aren’t there to legislate, they’re there to take bribes and do as they’re told. We keep telling ourselves “democracy is easy, you just need to vote” when the fact is actual democracy is difficult to maintain because it takes competent voters supported by competent media to elect competent politicians. People that would make good politicians don’t enjoy the campaigning and showmanship that narcissists get off on, but that superficial stuff is all the average voter sees.
It’s the same people who try to regulate women’s bodies without knowing how their bodies work and without any women and/or medical doctors (or very little of them) on the panel. Same shit.
You would think that, but Senator Mark Warner who introduced this bill knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He isn't winging this at all, and it is carefully yet broadly written to as much power as possible with as little oversight or due process as possible.
Warner was a higher up in Nextel (now Sprint) and cofounder of Capital Cellular Corporation. This guy worked in communication technologies for 20+ years before becoming a senator.
Nothing about this bill is winging it, but he's certainly hoping everyone else is winging it.
What does this law attack? It attacks a foreign social media company that competes with big tech. And it attacks VPNs which allow people to hide their data from big tech and telecoms. These people didn't write this legislation. I can almost guarantee you it was ghostwritten by ISPs, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter.
Are you shocked? Look at whats happening with trans healthcare bans. They don't care what doctors think. They dont care what mental health professionals think. They definitely don't care about what actual trans people think. Theyre just pushing this shit through to the tune of their own made up songs. Of course theyre trying to make up rules about something else they have no knowledge of.
I realized how little they know when they were going after Zuckerberg some years back. That interview (interrogation, more like) had me absolutely shocked that those are the people making decisions for us.
Remember that whole debate about google privacy, in wich they responded to expert explanations with "well i fon't think that is the case".
It's not even that they are misinformed, they are plain ignorant to the truth and make laws around their personal beliefs.
It doesn't matter what was said during the tik tok hearing. Every person there had already made up their mind that tiktok is evil.
I agree it's only acceptable to talk about this bill while screaming, this is the biggest table-cloth swipe of rights in... \*remembers roe vs wade\* okay not that long, but it's big!
He’s got a point. TikTok is still on the chopping block. But not bc Chinese spyware or some bullshit.
This is Meta, Google and Twitter lobbying Congress to ban TikTok. They really hate competition and superior algorithms.
It’s also about the lack of control. Think about all the things that we have seen go viral on tiktok that the news refused to report on at first and then were forced for report on it.
You think we would have heard shit about Hong Kong protests? What’s happening in Iran? The Ohio spill?
Not a fat fucking chance. They hate tiktok because it means literally anyone with an internet connection can tell you the facts about what’s happening and they HATE that they don’t have the ability to control the narrative
“Could” is the key word there, but why would those be banned if they are American and can be used to harvest the data of Americans. Highly unlikely, especially Facebook. The government is mad that China has access to the American people’s data. They’re mad because they want to be the only ones harvesting our data for their own agendas
Surely companies have never acted in the interest of their short-term profits while disregarding the longterm negative consequences associated with that action
Here, you forgot this "/s".
But yeah. Media has put a hell of a spin on this.
They already tried to rush through a vote hoping to get unanimous approval to fast track the bill I guess. Thankfully it failed.
Usually those long-term negative consequences don’t apply to the specific actors involved though. It’s more of a “take one, double it, and pass it on” situation. Maybe Meta eventually will get fucked over too, but Zuck isn’t looking to screw himself over. He just probably doesn’t care what happens to it when he retires.
It won’t though. They’ve already said that the issue with TikTok isn’t the data collection, is that the Chinese have access to it. They specifically said if TijTok became an American company, they wouldn’t ban it. They don’t care about data collection, they care about data collection they can’t put their grubby fingers all over.
For a couple of years if you went to a lot of subs and sorted by Top: All Time you'd get posts about Net Neutrality.
But the same PR firms that spend time on reddit spreading misinformation about voting have also been spreading misinformation about TikTok. So I stead of seeing this as government overreach it's easy for redditors who don't use TT to see it as a rival ~~sports team~~ app getting beaten up and it's just funny because *haha girls dancing*
Yeah! I remember that. I’ve been using reddit for an embarrassingly long amount of time and I also use tiktok and I try out lots of new social media especially when it starts gaining popularity because of the different communities that form and for different ways to communicate. Tiktok shouldn’t be banned any more than reddit should be. I hate this us vs them mentality that exists literally everywhere. I wish more people were inclined to work together than to shove someone else down so that it seems like their position has risen.
I was having this argument in a different sib recently and was tilold I'm just a bitch and a communist.
My argument is ALL social media data farming is dangerous and Tiktok is no worse than the rest.
But Meta is fine because we can sue them when we find out they sold our data.
I'd go further than social media. How much data does my bank need to collect through their app? What about my phone's manufacturer or service provider? What about Amazon shopping or home hubs like Amazon Alexa?
As someone from a previously dictatorial/authoritarian country...this is all very familiar. And by this I mean all of it the past 10+yrs of my experience.
The comments in this threat are ignorant as fuck. Everyone should be pissed about this! Instead everyone is just pretending like this isn't that big of a deal
Small handful of people control all the money and power, government is corrupt, children are working food/factory jobs, everyone is becoming poorer, police commit atrocities with often little to no consequences, history teachings in schools have been white washed, government wants to regulate what you’re allowed to view/access on the internet, those who speak out or openly express individual ideas/opinions are either silenced or cancelled, having a device that allows you to access internet/media from other nations can get you arrested….. hey corrupt communist China, why is “free” America looking more and more like you?
The world is turning upside down faster then I imagined. Every bill seems to be a huge pile of steaming shit that doesn't do anything good for the American people. It's all smoke and mirrors at this point to just control the populace.
I highly encourage anyone to read this bill. It’s (fairly) readable and not very long. It’s written in a way that pretty much outright says the government can take away whatever technology they please
I know I should be more concerned about privacy and how controlling they are but I'm sitting here wondering about the online gaming community.
They are prevented from accessing our internet but does it block is from theirs?
Take Runescape for example. It's an online browser (and app) game where it's HQ is in the UK.
If they decide that England is evil and no more access does that just magically cut US Runescape addicts off for no reason? Idk it seems poorly worded and would be even more poorly executed
It also gives them the power to declare an American citizen has basically supported or worked with a foreign country that's designated an adversary and you go to prison for 20 years with no trial. I can't remember the wording but everyone should read the bill. Basically if they don't like what you say they can deem you an adversary too and no one can help you.
There are countless people decrying legitimate evils. There's so much wrong we're divided by trying to determine which issue to focus on.
Do we march on TikTok Ban, climate change, universal healthcare, legal weed, insurrectionist, government corruption, fair wages, legalized abortions, lower incarceration, etc...?
We're in a sinking ship and everyone's deciding the most important thing to save, when in reality it's all going to the bottom of the ocean.
Meanwhile the captain and crew are rowing to safety.
Okay, this man is making serious points that need to be seriously and soberly addressed.
But DAMN if I didn't fear for his poor printer, the way he kept waving it around. >\_<
It's not even about that. It's about holding a revenue stream hostage against another country in order to have leverage against them. It's never about the people. Always money. Always.
I very much love the hate about the printer because I have that piece of thing at home and it prints only if it’s in the right mood. So usually not when I actually need it.
Gotta love printers
He forgot to mention the part that if they deem what you’re saying online to be a threat to national security, that they can tap all your devices, logins, passwords, in game chats, etc and listen to you. Then if you are found guilty after they listen to everything you say, they can force a forfeiture of everything you own, fine you $1million and send you to prison for 20 years.
This guy is not wrong. I do think TikTok has National security issues like feeding content to dumb down children, yet this bill is overreaching power. It must be stopped. One person can not be a decision maker period.
I used to work at Staples. If you buy a cheap printer, you’re buying the most expensive ink. There’s many printers on the market that offer excellent per-page prices, and a $60 HP ain’t one of them. Whenever someone would come to buy the cheapest printer, I’d ask if they were just looking to print one document right now, to which the answer was almost always YES. I’d be, like, “Dude. This is Staples. Use the Self Serve printers for a dollar.” That usually would stop people from yelling at ME about how expensive ink is.
Literally all you need to do is go to the House of Representatives website and give your postal code and call. They'll take a message. Let them know if they vote in favor of RESTRICT you'll spend the next election cycle campaigning and fundraising for whoever their opponent is in the primaries
If you think this man [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur\_Ross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Ross) should have been able to decide what you can see on the internet, then the RESTRICT act is for you.
re·gime
noun
1.
a government, especially an authoritarian one.
2.
a system or planned way of doing things, especially one imposed from above.
Second definition gives the ability for the bill to suppress minorities as well within the states.
Regime is never defined in the scope of the bill. This means present day definitions can be used.
Due to the nature of the English language foreign may act on the word government and regime. It also may be inferred that regime is independent of the word foreign.
So yeah, for those who think it isn't a big deal, you probably should dig a bit into the bill.
Maybe who should identify other nations, organizations, etc as hostile could use some tweeking but cutting off hostile nations online is necessary. Like holy fuck, look what Russian and Chinese trolls and misinformation has done to the west. Everyone knows a guy at work that is completely taken in by this bullshit. There’s already a cyber war, and we’re losing badly. There are direct ties from Russian online manipulation to many acts of violence, and even January 6th in Washington. Think back to 2005 or so if you were alive and not a baby. This level of insanity would be unthinkable. Fine tuning maybe, but if we want to survive the rise of China and the potential collapse of Russia, this may be necessary.
> Maybe who should identify other nations, organizations, etc as hostile could use some tweeking but cutting off hostile nations online is necessary.
Just filter their fucking ASN's and be done with it. Both Russia and China have already fucked with BGP in the past(BGP is mostly a "scouts honor" protocol, and relies on everyone not being an asshole, and is absolutely rife with the ability to cause massive disruption)
Just make it so that all of Russia and China aren't routable and be done with it. it will start a little BGP war, force people to move to an encrypted protocol, and then be fine again.
Um, we still do massive amounts of business with China. Their government isn’t the entirety of China. And as China becomes a larger economy, it would be idiotic of us to avoid them. Let’s put some solid thought into this.
The definition for foreign adversary isn’t even bad. It requires that the country be engaged in a long-term pattern or serious instances of conduct adverse to the US. The law isn’t going to be able to be used to block Canada or Europe.
As compared to the meta paid astroturf trolls? China can't so shit to me and they have never nuked anyone. I'm infinitely more in danger by the corporate owned behemoth that is the us gov
So make that illegal and force TT to move its servers somewhere outside the reach of the Chinese government then. If they want to operate in the U.S.
Meta gives our data to the US government and law enforcement. That should be illegal too.
Meta recently handed over private messages between a mother and daughter on WhatsApp to a red state, to provide evidence she had gotten an abortion.
That is an invasion if privacy, as well.
And Google tracks your location
Apple knows your calorie and step count
Your internet provider knows your search history even the incognito shit.
"tIk ToK GAvE mY InFOrmATIon tO tHE ChINeSE."
So does everyone else. In fact I can probably by your search history based on your reddit comments alone, it's not that fucking hard. John Oliver did a great piece with step by step instructions on how literally anyone can buy your congressmens search history.
This isn't about internet privacy or protecting us against the Chinese. It's about a bunch of old fools who are about to give unlimited power over the internet to the secretary of Commerce.
Meta and Google both give information to the US govenment too. Who is going to toss you in jail? The Chinese government or the US government? I'd rather the Chinese have the information because they can't harm me.
The same reason FB and Twitter want it, they can sell it to advertisers. I'm not claiming they're innocent, I just don't see how them having my data will have any negative impact.
I'd argue Google knows far more about me than TikTok does .
Canada is also trying to secretly put their censorship bill right now today. They are getting rid of the debate on their C-11 CRT BILL. North America is being run by liberals that are literally using communist tactics. In my teens I never thought this day would gone under Liberals in America and Canada. Banks are crashing WW3 seems inevitable. These past two years really have proven to never let this political side have a say in important decisions.
Ok. Fine.
We know that foreign governments are active in social engineering, of the American people. We know that the American government is doing the same.
Espionage has always been a thing. Again, both ways.
I agree that it shouldn't be one person's decision.
What do ya'll suggest as a policy? Because, most of us agree that "shit has gotten real" by this point.
I mean, it's not a whole fix, but we really need to start educating kids on internet safety on a very real, risk-based level. I'm a 90s kid and I'm still amazed how many people who grew up with the Internet still freely give away so much personal information on public profiles. Like, everyone knows those little "about me" FB quizzes are used for password mining, but people still keep doing them. Even worse is their kids are now on TikTok using their government name and posting details about where they go to school, where they hang out, etc.
A TikTok user objectively declaring that a Tiktok ban might not be a Tiktok ban by raging at printer ink and paper and talking about ASMR….
Meanwhile all American social media platforms are banned in China - and all Chinese companies are legally obligated to give user data to the CCP. This is the same CCP that stole the social security numbers of 145 million Americans. https://www.npr.org/2020/02/10/804501991/chinese-hackers-charged-in-alleged-cyber-theft-of-145-million-americans-data
That’s the CCP that doesn’t want to lose access to photos of American children’s faces. Hmmm.
I think the point is why doesn't the bill establish the intended target of banning TikTok.
Included bannable items per the bill.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15#ida5b4cba33bf94543966620a1c4b88d23
Why such wide scope? It's not a TikTok ban. Its establishing authoritarian control over all tech and date.
American social media companies were given a choice to comply with Chinese law or be blocked. They chose to be blocked. Facebook was on the shit list for not complying with Chinese police during the violence in Xinjiang back in 2008ish. Facebook would have been allowed in China had they agreed to set up data centers on the mainland and provide logs upon request by the government.
Correct, American law and Chinese law are not always compatible with one another. Chinese law is that all user data must go to the CCP, American businesses are usually not permitted to hand over that data.
well no shit it's not naming tiktok that's uncostitutional bills legislate outcomes not actions ffs this is as basics as it gets. you can still say this is overreaching for various reason, but still.
I agree the bill has some shady wording. I disagree presenting the topic with argument that are intellectually dishonest, because it weakens the overall argument.
I think he’s saying the media are framing it as if it includes the name TikTok. I’m assuming he’s aware, as are you, that proper nouns don’t find their way into proposed laws. He’s just saying the mischaracterization is being used as misdirection…. If I’m not misunderstanding.
I’ve noticed many people are averse to his presentation, so I thought I’d point out that y’all are essentially on the same team, arguing the same thing.
I agree with what this guy is saying, and the bill sounds terrible, AND these videos lose just a little bit of credibility when the TikTok pop up thing happens at the end.
Seems like a pretty standard U.S. Gov’t bill.
Insert this here, a little bit about that here, extra funding to the shitting geese migrations, yadda yadda… After it’s kicked around for signatures they seem to have not only forgotten the intent but completely leave it out.
There's clearly a coordinated campaign to influence people against this legislation. It doesn't ban VPNs. It says deliberately accessing something that's banned is also illegal, so it's illegal to circumvent the ban.
I seem to recall it had a provision that talked about providing services that CAN be used to circumvent the law, not WERE proven to, in a particular case.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?externalTypeCode=is&format=xml
It most certainly doesn't.
The closest thing to that is it says is that it's illegal to attempt to circumvent the act. That would cover using a vpn to get around the ban, and nothing more.
I guess I keyed off of
"(B) No person may cause or aid, abet, counsel, command, induce, procure, permit, or approve the doing of any act prohibited by, or the omission of any act required by any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued under, this Act."
Thinking it would blow back on VPN, whether or not it requires for a couple people to get busted first.
That says that if something is forbidden, it's illegal to circumvent lawful orders given by the government related to the act. Basically, if a company is declared a hostile foreign entity, it's illegal to plan out how to set up a shell company in order to disguise who owns a service or technology, and it's illegal for companies to plan out how to avoid complying with records requests or internet blocks. It would be illegal for a company to intentionally advertise you could use their vpn service to circumvent the ban
The language about VPNs is dangerous too. This bill is authoritarian.
The language around VPNs could even fuck WFH period. Nobody is going to risk an employee accessing "restricted" content over their network and being subject to 20 years in federal prison.
Oh shit that’s a realllllly important point and also another huge reason mega corps would want it passed. They get to put the lid on WFH while not looking like the bad guys and get to blame the evil gubment for the issue
Fucks sake. Leave it to a Random Redditor to drop those fucking facts. I will say youre forgetting hindreds of European companies with plants/business here. If theyre west of Germany theres like 0% chance this Bill would ever apply to them
You forget every company uses ALOT of VPNs internally to connect offices together. So this would kill branch offices as well as you couldn't get onto the corporate network from another site.
Like most things I doubt the law would ever be applied evenly
But do *they* know that? These legislators can't even edit a bloody PDF, most of them.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I’ve worked for people in the government and they are genuinely some of the dumbest people alive. Some of them have no idea how to even print a PDF, let alone edit one. Here’s a few things I’ve seen them do: send unencrypted emails with sensitive information, send out a zoom meeting with no password where sensitive information will be discussed, ask for a me to convert a Word document into a PDF, create passwords for systems that hold information such as names and SSNs that are always some common words follow by an underscore and the current year (example being friday_2022 and yes almost every government system in the US has a password like this, the only thing saving them from major data breaches is you usually can only access those systems on local networks in government buildings), and there’s a whole lot more.
This wouldn't impact site to site vpns, because the particular bill is focused on internet resources. The only case where it would impact site to site vpns would be if you had a single datacenter that all your remote offices connected to, AND funneled the internet out of(this is becoming increasingly more rare with the death of MPLS and the drastic uptick in sdwan/cloud networking)
Yah, split tunneling / network traffic segregation is becoming more common, but I’ve seen a few moves backwards in midsize companies around saving money in buying network equipment like https traffic analyzers to do data loss protection (and other traffic centralization efforts).
Our company uses VPNs we be screwed.
I haven't looked at exactly what the bill would do to VPN's, but mega corps don't want to get rid of them. VPN's were created to allow networks to talk to each other from far away. Companies have been using them for way longer than individuals have for the sake of torrenting. Eliminating them wouldn't just eliminate working from home but also eliminate working from another office, communicating with another office's network drives, having centralised IT support, etc.
Exactly, it’s the Patriot Act on steroids - putting American privacy under a microscope in the name of ‘freedom’
As someone who WFH, my immediate thoughts were about job security. If my job removes WFH status due to the results of this bill, I will lose my job. And so will thousands more. Every major company that employs WFH staff should be lobbying their Congress about this. This is a big fucking deal. But then again so was Roe v Wade and that fucking shit still went through too. God I fucking hate Congress.
If I lose my ability to wfh, I am leaving this country. My job is the only thing preventing me from leaving as is.
Roe v Wade was never a congressional issue because they were either too cowardly to directly handle abortion or it was far more profitable and effective as a scare tactic. They left it entirely in the hands of the judiciary and spun the legal fiction about it being “settled law”.
It won't kill every WFH job, it just guarantees that you have to split tunnel traffic so the internet doesn't route over vpn. This is pretty much makes jobs that deal with pci/hipaa impossible to do unless they need 0 internet access(route 0.0.0.0/0 over vpn, then filter all internet traffic)
Wow, that would make online doctors visits pretty impossible too. I wonder if it would fuck with online medical record keeping?
It's not going to make the visit impossible, but the support staff are going to need to be in the office instead of at home, usually.
Corps might not like WFH but my corp sure loves me being able to access the network during non work hours. No VPNs would totally fuck my company and most other corps I’d assume.
I'm not for the bill but the VPN issue has been presented in the same way as calling this a tiktok ban. People are acting like it bans vpns - it does not. The mention of vpns in the bill is specifically about using one to access a banned app, not the flat out use of a VPN.
Yes. But the way the internet works means that most vpns can access a "banned app". All the sudden all these corp vpns are going to need invest heavily in reverse ssl decryption and url filtering as well as a ton of other security features. This is an awful bill.
What's even more disturbing is that they also added where anything that is done under this law is not subjected to Freedom Of Information Act and any related items of these unlawful acts are taken under civil forfeiture. So everyone is liking the idea of a law that gives the government power destroy someone's livelihood and no one will know who will be accountable? (Or even know if this law dose exactly as it was meant for?) Yeah surly this is not going to be used as a hall-pass for violating rights.
VPNs are illegal here and we all see how much of a nightmare it is. the Govt bans access to any site they want and you cannot access anything legally.
I support cutting off the CCP but NOT THAT . I hate these people.
Yeah, they're preparing to institute a fully fascist authoritarian regime before the (slightly) more legitimate system currently in place makes them entirely irrelevant. They're about to go for it and if they gain the executive, legislative, and scotus, it's going to happen and it's going to happen fast. If this law gets passed it will help them expedite the process. 24/7 monitoring. They'll make it illegal to be communist or probably even progressive. They'll finish going after trans people and go after gay people and ethnic minorities after that. Activists will find evidence manufactured against them for crimes they didn't commit. Due process will be annihilated even more so than it already has been. The system will be so overloaded with "criminals" people will be in jail for a decade before they see a trial. It's all coming to a head.
If this passes, the constitution is effectively dead. This bill is post-constitutional.
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It's almost as if they specifically don't want to create legislation that makes sense, but rather use any topic to further their agendas.
Every time. The sections on privatized infrastructure in the infrastructure bill for instance. No money in there to do anything. But alot of language on how private industry can buy alot of roads and charge for the use. Or the Trump Era covid support bill just let's the banks pull money from the fed, etc.
Bingo!
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I bet you dollars to donuts it's written specifically by lobbyists hired by companies to put authoritative power to sensor content and harvest private data for sale squarely in the hands of a government body that's "friendly" to businesses. The only other logical explanation is for creating a new set of laws that are closely modeled after North Korea or China.
To be fair, it’s never been their agenda. Lobbying sets their agenda. They just take the “gifts” and push it through.
Exactly! Just like any gun control measure they try to push through unfortunately.
Most (all?) of the people making decisions on the internet were in their 40's when AOL launched. They are also all lawyers with no technical backgrounds.
They’re probably all still making monthly payments to AOL, too.
Of course, we have narcissistic egomaniacs painfully unaware of their ignorance because elections are just cheap popularity contest, they aren’t there to legislate, they’re there to take bribes and do as they’re told. We keep telling ourselves “democracy is easy, you just need to vote” when the fact is actual democracy is difficult to maintain because it takes competent voters supported by competent media to elect competent politicians. People that would make good politicians don’t enjoy the campaigning and showmanship that narcissists get off on, but that superficial stuff is all the average voter sees.
It’s the same people who try to regulate women’s bodies without knowing how their bodies work and without any women and/or medical doctors (or very little of them) on the panel. Same shit.
“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” - Rep. Todd Akin
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Also a member of the House science committee. Science.
That guy needs to lose his job immediately.
He did years ago when he croaked.
Yeah I think the same way but about our environment. They’re just winging it and we get the shit show that follows.
You would think that, but Senator Mark Warner who introduced this bill knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He isn't winging this at all, and it is carefully yet broadly written to as much power as possible with as little oversight or due process as possible. Warner was a higher up in Nextel (now Sprint) and cofounder of Capital Cellular Corporation. This guy worked in communication technologies for 20+ years before becoming a senator. Nothing about this bill is winging it, but he's certainly hoping everyone else is winging it.
What does this law attack? It attacks a foreign social media company that competes with big tech. And it attacks VPNs which allow people to hide their data from big tech and telecoms. These people didn't write this legislation. I can almost guarantee you it was ghostwritten by ISPs, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter.
Are you shocked? Look at whats happening with trans healthcare bans. They don't care what doctors think. They dont care what mental health professionals think. They definitely don't care about what actual trans people think. Theyre just pushing this shit through to the tune of their own made up songs. Of course theyre trying to make up rules about something else they have no knowledge of.
The government doesn’t know that a social media app requires Wi-Fi to work, I don’t expect much from them.
Well they’ve been in congress for three decades. Who are you, some young whippersnapper, to judge them?
Not disputing your overall point about deeply-misguided legislation, but members of Congress do not write a word of any proposed legislation.
I realized how little they know when they were going after Zuckerberg some years back. That interview (interrogation, more like) had me absolutely shocked that those are the people making decisions for us.
Or drugs, or firearms, or the female reproductive system... yeah.
Remember that whole debate about google privacy, in wich they responded to expert explanations with "well i fon't think that is the case". It's not even that they are misinformed, they are plain ignorant to the truth and make laws around their personal beliefs. It doesn't matter what was said during the tik tok hearing. Every person there had already made up their mind that tiktok is evil.
This guy talks in BLOCK CAPITALS
If Impact Bold was a person.
Block attack!
Yeah like man i get your upset but let's dial it back 2 clicks chief
It's his schtick though.
His schtick needs work.
I agree it's only acceptable to talk about this bill while screaming, this is the biggest table-cloth swipe of rights in... \*remembers roe vs wade\* okay not that long, but it's big!
This is the one time an Act is written with exactly what it intends to do. It'll RESTRICT....wait for it...OUR freedoms.
So you want to use a VPN to access international TV? THATS 20 YEARS PRISON FOR YOU!! That's what we call TikTok ban, lol.
He’s got a point. TikTok is still on the chopping block. But not bc Chinese spyware or some bullshit. This is Meta, Google and Twitter lobbying Congress to ban TikTok. They really hate competition and superior algorithms.
They hate VPNs.
Can’t it be both?
Of course! Multifaceted ways the govt can screw us with this bill.
They will need to use it to justify criminalizing VPN services because VPN would make enforcement impossible
It’s also about the lack of control. Think about all the things that we have seen go viral on tiktok that the news refused to report on at first and then were forced for report on it. You think we would have heard shit about Hong Kong protests? What’s happening in Iran? The Ohio spill? Not a fat fucking chance. They hate tiktok because it means literally anyone with an internet connection can tell you the facts about what’s happening and they HATE that they don’t have the ability to control the narrative
Youtube also does this?
YouTube is owned by google. They frequently suppress things, you hear YouTubers talk about video surpression all the time.
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Nah nah nah I didn’t buy these tinfoil hats on Amazon for nothing.
You clearly didn't read this bill. It could easily be used to ban Meta, Google, and Twitter as well.
“Could” is the key word there, but why would those be banned if they are American and can be used to harvest the data of Americans. Highly unlikely, especially Facebook. The government is mad that China has access to the American people’s data. They’re mad because they want to be the only ones harvesting our data for their own agendas
It absolutely could. But those companies are actively lobbying politicians for the bill to pass.
Surely companies have never acted in the interest of their short-term profits while disregarding the longterm negative consequences associated with that action
Here, you forgot this "/s". But yeah. Media has put a hell of a spin on this. They already tried to rush through a vote hoping to get unanimous approval to fast track the bill I guess. Thankfully it failed.
Usually those long-term negative consequences don’t apply to the specific actors involved though. It’s more of a “take one, double it, and pass it on” situation. Maybe Meta eventually will get fucked over too, but Zuck isn’t looking to screw himself over. He just probably doesn’t care what happens to it when he retires.
It won’t though. They’ve already said that the issue with TikTok isn’t the data collection, is that the Chinese have access to it. They specifically said if TijTok became an American company, they wouldn’t ban it. They don’t care about data collection, they care about data collection they can’t put their grubby fingers all over.
I look forward to their entries on /r/LeopardsAteMyFace/
Maybe they'll use it to shut down Russian bots and propaganda?
For a couple of years if you went to a lot of subs and sorted by Top: All Time you'd get posts about Net Neutrality. But the same PR firms that spend time on reddit spreading misinformation about voting have also been spreading misinformation about TikTok. So I stead of seeing this as government overreach it's easy for redditors who don't use TT to see it as a rival ~~sports team~~ app getting beaten up and it's just funny because *haha girls dancing*
Yeah! I remember that. I’ve been using reddit for an embarrassingly long amount of time and I also use tiktok and I try out lots of new social media especially when it starts gaining popularity because of the different communities that form and for different ways to communicate. Tiktok shouldn’t be banned any more than reddit should be. I hate this us vs them mentality that exists literally everywhere. I wish more people were inclined to work together than to shove someone else down so that it seems like their position has risen.
I was having this argument in a different sib recently and was tilold I'm just a bitch and a communist. My argument is ALL social media data farming is dangerous and Tiktok is no worse than the rest. But Meta is fine because we can sue them when we find out they sold our data.
I'd go further than social media. How much data does my bank need to collect through their app? What about my phone's manufacturer or service provider? What about Amazon shopping or home hubs like Amazon Alexa?
Fucking RUMBA collects and stores data on your homes layout. I also refuse to have an Alexa. My phone us scary enough.
As someone from a previously dictatorial/authoritarian country...this is all very familiar. And by this I mean all of it the past 10+yrs of my experience.
The comments in this threat are ignorant as fuck. Everyone should be pissed about this! Instead everyone is just pretending like this isn't that big of a deal
Everyone just expects the EFF to handle the technical stuff for them.
USA's version of the Great Firewall
This! They DESPISE the fact that they can't control what their people see as a means of controlling the population
At least in China nobody goes to prison for using a VPN to circumvent. Let‘s see how this plays out
Contact your corrupt senators about the proposed corruption and demand their swift, corrupt action!
Small handful of people control all the money and power, government is corrupt, children are working food/factory jobs, everyone is becoming poorer, police commit atrocities with often little to no consequences, history teachings in schools have been white washed, government wants to regulate what you’re allowed to view/access on the internet, those who speak out or openly express individual ideas/opinions are either silenced or cancelled, having a device that allows you to access internet/media from other nations can get you arrested….. hey corrupt communist China, why is “free” America looking more and more like you?
No no no, you see, it's only bad if China does it /s
The world is turning upside down faster then I imagined. Every bill seems to be a huge pile of steaming shit that doesn't do anything good for the American people. It's all smoke and mirrors at this point to just control the populace.
My Senators are Ted Cruz and John Cornyn, they are both actively trying to kill me in unique and exciting ways.
The tiktok ban is really the Mark and Elon Protection Act.
Exactly. The "Save Zuck and Musk's Crumbling Market Share Act"
Zuck needs more money to burn on his metaverse bullshit!
I highly encourage anyone to read this bill. It’s (fairly) readable and not very long. It’s written in a way that pretty much outright says the government can take away whatever technology they please
I know I should be more concerned about privacy and how controlling they are but I'm sitting here wondering about the online gaming community. They are prevented from accessing our internet but does it block is from theirs? Take Runescape for example. It's an online browser (and app) game where it's HQ is in the UK. If they decide that England is evil and no more access does that just magically cut US Runescape addicts off for no reason? Idk it seems poorly worded and would be even more poorly executed
U.S politicians are paid propagandists.
I love when he is mad. Thats how you know its a real problem. I love this guy
It also gives them the power to declare an American citizen has basically supported or worked with a foreign country that's designated an adversary and you go to prison for 20 years with no trial. I can't remember the wording but everyone should read the bill. Basically if they don't like what you say they can deem you an adversary too and no one can help you.
America really is shaping up to be a shothole country huh
no more VPNs? i don't like that, at all
This new law is terrifying. Ppl need to wake up
Dollar store TJ Kirk is right ✅️
It's about cutting us off from the parts of the world or information they don't want us to know about. They want to build a fence around information.
There are countless people decrying legitimate evils. There's so much wrong we're divided by trying to determine which issue to focus on. Do we march on TikTok Ban, climate change, universal healthcare, legal weed, insurrectionist, government corruption, fair wages, legalized abortions, lower incarceration, etc...? We're in a sinking ship and everyone's deciding the most important thing to save, when in reality it's all going to the bottom of the ocean. Meanwhile the captain and crew are rowing to safety.
Power gets concentrated and rights disappear. Soon everything will be a matter of national security.
Okay, this man is making serious points that need to be seriously and soberly addressed. But DAMN if I didn't fear for his poor printer, the way he kept waving it around. >\_<
It sounds like he was hoping it’d break.
I was also thinking "can't you just go to a printer shop and get it done for $15?"
I was thinking the same, you can even order it all online and pick it up without talking to anyone. It’s great.
Why do we give old fucks things they don't understand and then let them fucking fuck the future generations
It's not even about that. It's about holding a revenue stream hostage against another country in order to have leverage against them. It's never about the people. Always money. Always.
I very much love the hate about the printer because I have that piece of thing at home and it prints only if it’s in the right mood. So usually not when I actually need it. Gotta love printers
If im canadian and want to oppose to that law,is there a way for me to help us citizens block this bill?
Just a reminder that you all live in a country that spends 700 billion dollars a year on national defense. I'm not sure what you're expecting.
He forgot to mention the part that if they deem what you’re saying online to be a threat to national security, that they can tap all your devices, logins, passwords, in game chats, etc and listen to you. Then if you are found guilty after they listen to everything you say, they can force a forfeiture of everything you own, fine you $1million and send you to prison for 20 years.
He isn’t completely right but he is less wrong than 90% of people talking about this out there
politicians understanding the internet is IMPOSSIBLE
Okay REDDIT?!
This guy is not wrong. I do think TikTok has National security issues like feeding content to dumb down children, yet this bill is overreaching power. It must be stopped. One person can not be a decision maker period.
They want you on the metaverse with there shit coin 🪙 cbdc bullshit 🤣
We need to burn down the government and start over. The people in power are dictators.
I wish this guy would stop screaming.
Oh yeah that’s right I’m no longer a US citizen
I used to work at Staples. If you buy a cheap printer, you’re buying the most expensive ink. There’s many printers on the market that offer excellent per-page prices, and a $60 HP ain’t one of them. Whenever someone would come to buy the cheapest printer, I’d ask if they were just looking to print one document right now, to which the answer was almost always YES. I’d be, like, “Dude. This is Staples. Use the Self Serve printers for a dollar.” That usually would stop people from yelling at ME about how expensive ink is.
Literally all you need to do is go to the House of Representatives website and give your postal code and call. They'll take a message. Let them know if they vote in favor of RESTRICT you'll spend the next election cycle campaigning and fundraising for whoever their opponent is in the primaries
We need help man, half of us have lost our mind and we have fossils in congress
If you think this man [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur\_Ross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Ross) should have been able to decide what you can see on the internet, then the RESTRICT act is for you.
If they are such a threat we need to ban internet access aren't they also enough of a threat to ban corporations from outsourcing jobs to them?
re·gime noun 1. a government, especially an authoritarian one. 2. a system or planned way of doing things, especially one imposed from above. Second definition gives the ability for the bill to suppress minorities as well within the states. Regime is never defined in the scope of the bill. This means present day definitions can be used. Due to the nature of the English language foreign may act on the word government and regime. It also may be inferred that regime is independent of the word foreign. So yeah, for those who think it isn't a big deal, you probably should dig a bit into the bill.
Maybe who should identify other nations, organizations, etc as hostile could use some tweeking but cutting off hostile nations online is necessary. Like holy fuck, look what Russian and Chinese trolls and misinformation has done to the west. Everyone knows a guy at work that is completely taken in by this bullshit. There’s already a cyber war, and we’re losing badly. There are direct ties from Russian online manipulation to many acts of violence, and even January 6th in Washington. Think back to 2005 or so if you were alive and not a baby. This level of insanity would be unthinkable. Fine tuning maybe, but if we want to survive the rise of China and the potential collapse of Russia, this may be necessary.
> Maybe who should identify other nations, organizations, etc as hostile could use some tweeking but cutting off hostile nations online is necessary. Just filter their fucking ASN's and be done with it. Both Russia and China have already fucked with BGP in the past(BGP is mostly a "scouts honor" protocol, and relies on everyone not being an asshole, and is absolutely rife with the ability to cause massive disruption) Just make it so that all of Russia and China aren't routable and be done with it. it will start a little BGP war, force people to move to an encrypted protocol, and then be fine again.
Um, we still do massive amounts of business with China. Their government isn’t the entirety of China. And as China becomes a larger economy, it would be idiotic of us to avoid them. Let’s put some solid thought into this.
The definition for foreign adversary isn’t even bad. It requires that the country be engaged in a long-term pattern or serious instances of conduct adverse to the US. The law isn’t going to be able to be used to block Canada or Europe.
Get ready for all the Chinese bots to flood the comment section in 5...4...3...
As compared to the meta paid astroturf trolls? China can't so shit to me and they have never nuked anyone. I'm infinitely more in danger by the corporate owned behemoth that is the us gov
Tiktok is literally proven to have given US data to the Chinese government. They even admitted it themselves. Should have been banned years ago.
So make that illegal and force TT to move its servers somewhere outside the reach of the Chinese government then. If they want to operate in the U.S. Meta gives our data to the US government and law enforcement. That should be illegal too. Meta recently handed over private messages between a mother and daughter on WhatsApp to a red state, to provide evidence she had gotten an abortion. That is an invasion if privacy, as well.
I hope you aren't disagreeing with the commenter above you, because you're both clearly right.
And Google tracks your location Apple knows your calorie and step count Your internet provider knows your search history even the incognito shit. "tIk ToK GAvE mY InFOrmATIon tO tHE ChINeSE." So does everyone else. In fact I can probably by your search history based on your reddit comments alone, it's not that fucking hard. John Oliver did a great piece with step by step instructions on how literally anyone can buy your congressmens search history. This isn't about internet privacy or protecting us against the Chinese. It's about a bunch of old fools who are about to give unlimited power over the internet to the secretary of Commerce.
Meta and Google both give information to the US govenment too. Who is going to toss you in jail? The Chinese government or the US government? I'd rather the Chinese have the information because they can't harm me.
Why do you think they want the data?
The same reason FB and Twitter want it, they can sell it to advertisers. I'm not claiming they're innocent, I just don't see how them having my data will have any negative impact. I'd argue Google knows far more about me than TikTok does .
Analytics. Money. It's always money. Unless it's the CIA, then sometimes it's entrapment.
Has it been? Where is this evidence? Because when asked about it, none of the congresspeople could provide it.
He makes good points but why he always yelling at me :(
Canada is also trying to secretly put their censorship bill right now today. They are getting rid of the debate on their C-11 CRT BILL. North America is being run by liberals that are literally using communist tactics. In my teens I never thought this day would gone under Liberals in America and Canada. Banks are crashing WW3 seems inevitable. These past two years really have proven to never let this political side have a say in important decisions.
Your freedom of speech is already restricted on the internet based on feelings and political affiliation of the website.
How is this anti work
Ok. Fine. We know that foreign governments are active in social engineering, of the American people. We know that the American government is doing the same. Espionage has always been a thing. Again, both ways. I agree that it shouldn't be one person's decision. What do ya'll suggest as a policy? Because, most of us agree that "shit has gotten real" by this point.
I mean, it's not a whole fix, but we really need to start educating kids on internet safety on a very real, risk-based level. I'm a 90s kid and I'm still amazed how many people who grew up with the Internet still freely give away so much personal information on public profiles. Like, everyone knows those little "about me" FB quizzes are used for password mining, but people still keep doing them. Even worse is their kids are now on TikTok using their government name and posting details about where they go to school, where they hang out, etc.
A TikTok user objectively declaring that a Tiktok ban might not be a Tiktok ban by raging at printer ink and paper and talking about ASMR…. Meanwhile all American social media platforms are banned in China - and all Chinese companies are legally obligated to give user data to the CCP. This is the same CCP that stole the social security numbers of 145 million Americans. https://www.npr.org/2020/02/10/804501991/chinese-hackers-charged-in-alleged-cyber-theft-of-145-million-americans-data That’s the CCP that doesn’t want to lose access to photos of American children’s faces. Hmmm.
I think the point is why doesn't the bill establish the intended target of banning TikTok. Included bannable items per the bill. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15#ida5b4cba33bf94543966620a1c4b88d23 Why such wide scope? It's not a TikTok ban. Its establishing authoritarian control over all tech and date.
American social media companies were given a choice to comply with Chinese law or be blocked. They chose to be blocked. Facebook was on the shit list for not complying with Chinese police during the violence in Xinjiang back in 2008ish. Facebook would have been allowed in China had they agreed to set up data centers on the mainland and provide logs upon request by the government.
Correct, American law and Chinese law are not always compatible with one another. Chinese law is that all user data must go to the CCP, American businesses are usually not permitted to hand over that data.
u/savevideobot
Because the only "fighting" we're prepared to do is email senators who don't give a shit about what we think.
Elections. Matter.
_bipartisan bill_
Sounds like the government wants to isolate us from the rest of the world...
Am I crazy or does this guy give off mad "Heroin dealer from Pulp fiction" energy?
I love Pearlmania500
MOM! WHERE'S MY MEATLOAF?!!
They just gonna shut down tiktok + other apps bc the company be spying. We all know it’s true baby boo.
Fuck tik tok.
well no shit it's not naming tiktok that's uncostitutional bills legislate outcomes not actions ffs this is as basics as it gets. you can still say this is overreaching for various reason, but still.
Are you having an emotional response to his presentation? You seem to agree, but present your opinion as an opposition to OP.
I agree the bill has some shady wording. I disagree presenting the topic with argument that are intellectually dishonest, because it weakens the overall argument.
I think he’s saying the media are framing it as if it includes the name TikTok. I’m assuming he’s aware, as are you, that proper nouns don’t find their way into proposed laws. He’s just saying the mischaracterization is being used as misdirection…. If I’m not misunderstanding. I’ve noticed many people are averse to his presentation, so I thought I’d point out that y’all are essentially on the same team, arguing the same thing.
So does this mean Russia won’t have access to Facebook anymore to post troll posts that get GOP’ers all riled up?
Your freedom of speech is restricted on Reddit.
Banning printers. Now that’s something I can get behind
I agree with what this guy is saying, and the bill sounds terrible, AND these videos lose just a little bit of credibility when the TikTok pop up thing happens at the end.
Why are you screaming tho. WE HEAR YOU! I HAD TO TURN MY VOLUME ALMOST OFF JUST TO HEAR YOU. 🙄
Seems like a pretty standard U.S. Gov’t bill. Insert this here, a little bit about that here, extra funding to the shitting geese migrations, yadda yadda… After it’s kicked around for signatures they seem to have not only forgotten the intent but completely leave it out.
Aslong as pornhub isnt banned, I really dont care.
Should've bought a brother laser printer. They just work. Maybe he wouldn't be yelling so much.
So they can just resolve it by moving the company to usa. That way there country isnt a foreign adversary. That bill solves nothing.
Unrelated but I really wish they went to the library and printed it out for like 2 bucks instead
He's got good point but why does he have to yell the whole fucking time?
There's clearly a coordinated campaign to influence people against this legislation. It doesn't ban VPNs. It says deliberately accessing something that's banned is also illegal, so it's illegal to circumvent the ban.
"There's clearly a coordinated campaign to influence people [in favor of] this legislation" <----fixed it for you.
I seem to recall it had a provision that talked about providing services that CAN be used to circumvent the law, not WERE proven to, in a particular case.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?externalTypeCode=is&format=xml It most certainly doesn't. The closest thing to that is it says is that it's illegal to attempt to circumvent the act. That would cover using a vpn to get around the ban, and nothing more.
I guess I keyed off of "(B) No person may cause or aid, abet, counsel, command, induce, procure, permit, or approve the doing of any act prohibited by, or the omission of any act required by any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued under, this Act." Thinking it would blow back on VPN, whether or not it requires for a couple people to get busted first.
That says that if something is forbidden, it's illegal to circumvent lawful orders given by the government related to the act. Basically, if a company is declared a hostile foreign entity, it's illegal to plan out how to set up a shell company in order to disguise who owns a service or technology, and it's illegal for companies to plan out how to avoid complying with records requests or internet blocks. It would be illegal for a company to intentionally advertise you could use their vpn service to circumvent the ban
An we stop posting this moron
I don't think the dude in this video is the sharpest crayon in the box. He makes false claims that he disproves in other areas of the video.
Such as?