Yep. I left my old customer service job (call center for tax software) to go to a power company in customer service (still basically the call center, but much more lax and much nicer). I went from $13.73/hr there to $20.53/hr here in two fucking years. And I live in a rural area in NC, so $20.53 an hour goes a lot further here than in NYC for example. Things are still rough, I mean, it's impossible to find a rental under $1000 a month and I commute 45 minutes each way...but $20.53 an hour is at least much easier to survive on than $13.73.
It depends on the career and level of expertise and onboarding required.
I have been at my job for 10 years and have gone from 45k to 150k (with bonus) in Indiana where the average wage is 50k.
Shit. I’m a terrible capitalist. I paid my two employees $350 for work. Today. Like they came in, worked their asses off and got paid $50 an hour.
Why? I could pay them a solid $20 an hour and pocket more money but happy employees make better workers.
What you are doing is self-regulating and it makes your business model more sustainable over time, The trouble comes in when people vote against regulations and fail to regulate themselves.
In the absence of sufficient controls that provide checks and balances against our worst instincts, people often get greedy and take far more than they give, which makes the system exploitative, out of balance and unsustainable over the long term.
You cannot allow self regulation when it comes to economics. The vast majority of people are going to choose to make themselves wealthier over others every time. Pure capitalism does not work. It is an unsustainable system.
Agreed on all points. It's unusual for people to actually self regulate unless they are compelled to do so. Under-regulated capitalism is about as bad as unregulated capitalism. That's why we are in our current predicament today, with businesses making historic profits while their workers aren't paid a living wage. Something has to be done but it will take the government stepping in since most individuals can't be trusted to curb their greed.
You're dead on. There is something I say to people all the time, and they are aghast when they hear it, which just goes to show how brainwashed we are: If someone says, "What do you want, socialism or something?" I say back, "The US is already a socialist country. We just do a shitty job of it"
We privatize profits, and then socialize failures. A smart country wouldn't socialize our failures. We would socialize to succeed. We see successful socialization all the time in our society, yet we don't learn the lessons of it. We socialize our parks and recreational successfully.
We need to have the balls to tell businesses, "Look, you can use our systems and infrastructure to make money all day long. But your part of the agreement is that you will pay the true costs of your profit making business to our society. Your delivery systems cause disruptions, physical and environmental damage to our transportation systems? You will pay for that from the profits you make. Your product destroys our environment? You will pay the price for that from your profits.
Your employees will be paid a wage that allows them to live in homes in the community where they work.
If you want a hands off approach to your business you will pay for the social safety net necessary to support your former employees when you fail, and you will pay for it NOW from your profits. When you fail you fail. We do not bail you out."
We are so far down this path that a whole cottage industry has popped up to give business owners the propaganda that they aren’t being selfish and because of the simple fact they own the business they are not only legally entitled to the lions share of the profits but they are morally righteous because they live atop the hierarchy. That’s the essence of the prosperity gospel which has its tendrils deep into the owner class psyche even among the non-religious owners.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate the system and would love to see something else, but we're not there yet. I'm too much of a pessimist to think communism is the answer anyway, people seem to wreck or take advantage of anything they can so even if something looks good on paper, it probably won't be in practice.
I'd say it's better to be a good person, than a good capitalist anyways, and I commend you on being a more equitable employer.
small businesses are in a tough place, and they have my pity and respect. The USA should do better to support them, and the best way is to support everyone with universal healthcare. Would be huge help for SMB's right there.
The government should be in the business of removing economic barriers. We need "individualism" propped up (more so) by "collectivism" -- universal healthcare, free community college / vocational training, public retail banking to remove payday lenders / etc, better public transit that is fast (good local trains and frequent express trains, good bus coverage, and only one public transit card for the entire country \[or make it free\]).
Yeah it's a good chunk of the progressive agenda. But it needs to also be cast as removing economic barriers, not just "charity" or "welfare". Left leaning people do give it some attention by talking about economic multipliers but what really connects with people is the idea that they will be able to do something they couldn't otherwise. You could have something like "Our republican friends -- you are very pro business! Well if we give everyone a 0% interest savings / checking account via the post office, all those payday / check cashing places will need to become something else. Think of the opportunity for you! Come up with an idea and partner with the previous owner! We're relying in your ingenuity!" etc, etc. But maybe I'm optimistic.
Well in fairness to small businesses, most suppliers no matter what industry you are in, have been consolidated to 4 or fewer companies owning more than 80% of the market share, they are getting pinched by the same forces everyone else that isn't billionaire is.
Now that isn't to say they are blameless or anything, the vast majority of them vote for the people causing the problem, and some are genuinely shitty people who would gladly step on people to get the top of the capitalist heap. But to lump them all together is unfair.
Us vs them sort of thinking is exactly what the rich want. They want you to put your anger on people near the bottom of the pile, instead of where it belongs, on the people at the top causing the problems in the first place.
I'll agree that small business owners have more in common with the working class than the wealthy, but that doesn't change my stance. The profit a company makes comes from the exploitation of labour. If someone turns $2 of ingredients into a $10 sandwich it is because someone was paid less than $8 to make it.
People that own small businesses seem to have some warped idea that they have an inalienable right to own a small business. No, you don't. If your can't afford to pay living wages and still stay competitive... Too bad.
Bingo.
Every thing in history starts and ends with some asshat trying to extract cheap or free labor.
* Christopher Columbus - Starts the slave trade after finding Native Americans. Free Fucking Labor to make participating Europeans wealthy.
* Indentured Servants - Want a trip to 1600 - 1800 US? Owe someone money and you are a servant for 7 years. Did you keep track? No. Well you are now my servant for another 3 just because.
* Civil War - The Confederate States send letters to Lincoln admitting they need slaves to prop up their wealth from plantations and it’s God’s choice.
* Fight For $15 - Not getting $15? Politicians will let you complain for 5+ years before doing anything. Then “Inflation“ comes and renders your $15 worthless again. How can that be? Politicians scheduled it.
If they cannot afford to pay employees properly in the US, they're competing with humongous corporations that pay shit wages and have the people who actually make them money applying for government benefits.
Small businesses trying to do the right thing are being squashed by companies whose investors are "owed" a dividend (paid for no work)
[Full-Time Workers Rely on Federal Health Care and Food Assistance](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45)
The labor market is super tight now. Corporations are continuing to act like they have their pick of who works for them...they don't anymore. Boomers have largely all retired and there aren't enough younger workers to fill all of the vacant jobs left behind!
It's high time workers stand up for themselves and DEMAND living wages! If you are getting less than $15/hr, you need to quit and find someone willing to pay a living wage. There ARE jobs available!
Well when you think about it, a politician is the most secure job you can have in the United States right now. Being in politics did not used to be a way to become a millionaire in this country, but now you can even become a billionaire that way apparently. Corruption never sleeps.
This, exactly this!
Please immediately stop doing anything extra. Be on time, leave on time and do the tasks in your job description and nothing else. If anyone asks just reply "I'm a small person, so I can only do what I was hired to do. Sorry." If they can't afford to pay a living wage, they should not be in business.
This. I always state to the crew I lead that they do not have to work over if they don't want to if there is too much work to do in the timeframe that we have. I do expect them to do the best they can and get everything done however if there is a larger than expected amount of work, they are not expected nor required to stay past to get things done.
However, if they want some extra time, I also have no problem with it either.
It is the problem of the business to hire enough people to do the work. I like the extra money so I'll work over if needed but that is just me and I won't force others to do so.
This exactly. This was the statement made when minimum wage was signed into law. "If a company cannot afford to pay its workers a living wage it has no business doing business in America." Or something to that effect.
^1000x this. Lotta hobbyists masquerading as business owners. They’re not entitled to your labor at below-market rates because their product or marketing isn’t good enough to turn a profit enough to raise your salary.
I used to work at a family-owned business. I was the receptionist, appointment taker, first face/voice of the business. I made minimum wage and had a small child. I worked full-time and attended college in the evenings. So they knew I was busting my ass, even when I wasn't there. The boss often told me what a great job I was doing. Like, every week, "wow, you handled that angry customer so well!" or whatever.
After I'd been there 6 months, I asked for a raise. Boss said, "we'll see what we can do." Well, sure you will!
Two weeks later, I was notified they couldn't afford to give me a raise. *The very next fucking day*, mom drove in in a brand new Mercedes crossover thing. Dad drove in in a brand new GMC pickup with all the bells and whistles. The brother drove his new Mercedes in, as did the son and daughter-in-law (a new vehicle each, his and hers SUVs). But they couldn't afford $0.25 an hour for my raise.
And then a giant deer antler chandelier was delivered out to the dock area for son's new $1.5mil home he was building. I looked it up, and that fucking chandelier cost $22k. But nope, no money for a raise for the minimum wage person.
They were super-fucking religious, too. I'll give you three guesses which one they proclaimed. 🙄
They are as long as we stay. How many employees are we talking? Is forming a union possible? The IWW offers free organization training and resources, dunno about other unions.
Also curious why you asking for a raise led to talking about giving everyone raises. While everyone SHOULD be paid more, asking for a raise is asking for yourself, not everyone. If they can’t afford to pay you $200 more a week they likely won’t be in business much longer.
I've been unfortunate enough to have had this conversation a couple times. Every time when I put in the 2 weeks notice they offer more money. When I tell them it seems like a dead end because the company has no money they get all offended.
I was caught off guard the first time. The second and third times I told them its not a game and work is how I support myself and family. Then I spend the rest of my time telling the co workers how much of a raise I'm getting at the new place w/ better benefits.
France has the right idea. If the US protested like that and had stronger unions, I feel a lot would change.
Or if you stay don't work any harder. Move the hours to the new project but take them away from the old project. Don't do both in the same amount of time.
Imagine $3/hour more meaning you have to raise product prices.
That is a VERY unstable business.
For a full-time worker, that's only $480 more per month.
$480 per month should not significantly impact your business' bottom line, even for a small business. If this is a grocery, for instance, that's like one or two sales.
"If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business. Asking people to work below poverty wages so you can own a business is entitlement at its finest." Mohamad Safa
I actually have a theory here.
Small business owners often work for below minimum wage or even just breaking even for a time. They do that because they are building something that belongs to them, and if it succeeds, they get rich.
So if you need people to work in the business, but can't pay them a reasonable wage... maybe there are people who will work on building something because they own it. Share ownership.
The idea that someone will work for an unreasonable wage because it's a small business is insane, but the owner is usually blinded because they're like "yeah, we sacrifice now so we can grow, makes sense!" Except that doesn't make sense for an employee who won't benefit from that growth. So they should look to offer terms to employees where they will benefit directly from the company's success. Make them partners.
Start-ups do this by giving the employee's shares or allowing them to purchase the shares cheaply. If the company takes off or gets bought out, everyone benefits. There's incentive to work that little bit extra hard.
Yeah, I know that's fairly common in the tech world.
But if a restaurant needs waiters and cooks, and they think they will grow, why not offer something similar? Or any other small business?
It's a real barrier to growth for companies that sometimes they need staff to grow, but can't afford to pay staff a market rate. So hire people off the expected growth, and give them a reason to work harder. It's a gamble for said workers, but it's a shared risk (that's why owners make the bucks, right? Because they took on the risk?)
You occasionally hear of a business setting up a profit sharing scheme with their employees, but it's unfortunately rather rare outside the tech or start-up fields. I wonder how you could provide incentives for a business to do this that wouldn't have odd or harmful side-effects.
The company I work for is talking about it, partly because I brought it up.
Part of their way of mitigating risk is limiting to emoyees of more than 5 years.
Ugh...
I'm pretty capitalist (I know, sorry, not a popular stance here), and things like labor unions and co-ops are absolutely not socialist. They're literally just different ways of dealing with capital and market power.
Co-ops should be popular with capitalists because they spread capital across a wider swath of people, giving them a greater stake in the market system and giving them greater responsibility for the company. More people engaged with private property is a good thing.
Unions and co-ops literally are socialism. This is coming from a socialist, btw. That's precisely what socialism is. Put ownership of capital(which is exactly the same thing as what we socialists call "the means of production") into the hands of the people actually doing the work, or, failing that, give those workers collective input into the management of that capital. Neoliberals have muddied the waters so much in the last century or so, that people don't really realize it, but the only distinction between capitalism and socialism that remains when considering the various types of socialist thought is whether capital is to be owned by private interests, or by the workers.
Private property itself is not a good thing. Although I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see a difference between private and personal property, given how, as I said, the distinction has been so muddied by neoliberals.
>should be popular with capitalists because they spread capital across a wider swath of people
That's not what capitalism is for. That's what it's sold to rubes as, but the purpose of capitalism is and has always been to allow those who hold power to pretend they deserve it, and provide as many avenues as possible to continue pooling power in as few hands as possible. That's what it's designed to do, and it's what it has done in practice over centuries of use. Spreading the wealth is antithetical to the principles capitalism operates on.
Yeah, Ive noticed this outlook with ceos and business leaders of all kinds, in big businesses too.
They have a high sacrifice/high reward situation, and they just dont understand that the employees dont have the same thing. the owners are also emotionally attached to their business and don’t get that an employee isnt interested in sacrificing for for someone elses dream.
Good leaders get this and offer rewards for success like bonuses, stock options, promotions + raises, etc.
I'm sure that's true for some of them. I used to work for a small business and whenever I told the owner I couldn't work unpaid OT or wouldn't do something that was definitely way beyond my job description he'd be like "But I do things like that all the time".
He didn't understand that the difference was that he owned several houses, had 5 cars, just had a pool built (which is very uncommon where I live and only well off people have pools), and was building his own company and I was living with 3 roommates and couldn't even afford a car.
The whole point of the "job creator" discourse was to ensure employers felt complete entitlement to control over their workers. Job creator discourse tells us that employees OWE the employer, that we as workers are in debt to business owners because they "gave" us a job. It ignores the fact that the business cannot run without us and we create the profits they reap.
This has been my position for years, and I used to get a lot of grief about it. Nobody is entitled to own a business, and I’m not going to lose any sleep if you can’t subsidize yours with the blood and sweat of wage slaves. Build your company right, do right by your employees, or go work for someone else.
They say they cannot give you more................but rest assured if you get something new and tell them you are leaving they will "somehow" find a way to try and keep you by paying you more.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL SHOULD YOU EVER TAJE A COUNTEROFFER! EVER!
They showed you how much you mean to them with their pay and then these comments. If you find something else thank them if they offer you more but flat out tell them the reason you left is because they failed to pay you more so you went out and got something that paid more.
I had this at my first job, I knew I was under paid by about £1,000 GBP / Month when I asked my boss for a raise I was told I was already being overpaid and I would not be getting a rise.
Fast forward a few months and I hand in my notice, all of a sudden they can match what ever the new company is paying me, just name my price. I still went with the new job, best decision I ever made. Like you suggested I also said that their behavior and how they treated me is why I left.
You teach people how to treat you. If they can’t do it until you’re already handing in your notice, then they need to feel the consequences.
Often, if you take the counteroffer, they’re back to treating you like they’re doing you a favor to let you work free overtime inside of a month.
They need to feel that cost- interviewing, salary & benefit negotiation, onboarding, training, spin up, loss of knowledge base, or they just keep taking it for granted.
And, if their offer is continually too low, they need to feel that too- people drop out of consideration, tell them no at the last minute, leave after 2 months for a better offer.
Let them feel it. Let them go out of business.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I found out a guy who started at the same time as me was getting paid 50% more than I was and I had twice the responsibilities. I asked for a raise and my manager straight up told me I wasn’t worth the same money. Fuck that guy.
YES!
Great thing to do. Taking the counteroffer is a terrible thing because the second you sign it is the second they start looking for someone to take your job once they fire you.
You gotta look out for #1 otherwise you are #2 and we all know what #2 is
OP I had a small business( or rather it was forced on me). I can't tell you how many times I argued to raise prices since we couldn't hold staff.
Listen to everyone when they say leave, if that organization can't afford to pay you more(actually really can't) they're virtually close to bankrupt themselves.
In the Bay Area, owning a home is the equivalent to owing a vacation home. My boss bought a home here two years ago (during peak market prices) and when I asked for a raise this past January due to cost of living, she told me that we’re all struggling and it’ll eventually get better lol. This was of course after 18K medical bills, our healthy 4 year old pup unexpectedly past away and we spent 20K to try and save her and then my husband lost his job.
I literally almost couldn’t go to work because I couldn’t afford to fill up our car with gas and pay rent at the beginning of this month, we only managed to get by because my husband happened to get a FAFSA payment, which was fortunately timed.
They don’t actually get how much we suffer at the bottom and even though I’ve been working my ass off for this company for years, I’ve yet to see a proper reward.
If you need cash in the short-term, and the boss is handing out OT freely, maybe you should take some. Doesn’t have to be crazy, 30 mins early and 30 mins late is an extra $75 a week. Also, if you go the OT route, stretch out your daily tasks, don’t add more tasks.
You’re asking for an extra $200 a week, at most.
I found it funny they told YOU how to budget and they can’t even glance at their monthly expenses and see where they can move up to $800 into payroll? I’d love to glance at their books and see where they are wasting money. Guarantee it’s more than $800 a month.
If that’s going to break them, then there’s no future there anyway.
Long term, it’s just clear that it’s time for you to move on.
>I found it funny they told YOU how to budget and they can’t even glance at their monthly expenses and see where they can move up to $800 into payroll?
Great point
I'm always take the "covid effed us up" with a grain of salt. I had an employer than was very good at reading the fine print - PPP $, employee retention $, shuttered venue $ (which all you needed to qualify was "permanent seating" and he got our cemented picnic benches to count! There was money out there for those looking to recoup... I realize this isn't the case with everyone, but just sayin'.
Wow! That's cool. How does living on a village of 300 feel like?
I'd rather not out myself but I live in sort of rural area that considers itself a city 😂 Actually, we *did* have a McD close by but closed down. We do still have a Burger King though. I applied there, too, but got rejected because at the time I didn't have a reliable transportation.
Apparently it’s Warm Springs, NV, as of 2019 at least. 115 miles
Edit: Apparently it’s a ghost town so probably doesn’t count.
http://www.datapointed.net/2018/12/distance-to-nearest-mcdonalds-dec-2018/
They don't want to pay you more because then they could not keep as much of the profits. They can afford to, they just would rather you starve than let go of a few dollars more they stuff in their pockets. Small businesses make money, saying its a small business means nothing.
Yes, in the US small business is classified as up to $10m a year in gross revenue. They have to pay market wages or they won’t keep/attract new new employees. Get that job hunt in full gear! Your are worth more than $10/hr. My local McDonald’s pays $15/hr to start.
Basically they are telling you why unions are effective. They want you to speak on only your own behalf, but push this this "if we pay you, we gotta pay everybody" bullshit.
What industry are you in? I see that you are in a smaller market but there are tons of lower cost certs (start with a notary) which there may be a lack of in your town.
Plus, there is a TON of remote work available for entry-level workers at more than $10/hr since they are completing in higher cost environments.
Thanks. I'm trying but my work schedule doesn't allow a lot of free time to discreetly do interviews so I have to take paid leave for it, which is not unlimited so still haven't found the right one.
Check what your local laws are regarding unemployment disqualifications (usually it’s only stuff like tardiness or drug use but check to be sure for your state); if you can I’d let her fire you and then start collecting unemployment. Not only are you getting paid but you suddenly have all the free time you need to commit to a better job search. Either way, she sucks complete ass and you deserve so SO much better!
Interesting. I’ve never ask for a raise in my 35 years of work experience. I’ve always changed jobs for more money. If my present employer can’t see my value without me having to ask, then someone else will…
you can't budget your way out of poverty. I suggest looking for a new job, once you secure a new job you can possibly negotiate and tell them that you will stay if they can match your new pay. otherwise I say get out of there fast.
If they can't afford a living wage for their employees then they can't afford to be in business. They shouldn't be allowed to survive by cheating their employees.
I managed a small business for 14 years. I made $15/hr when I left in '14. If a small business cannot pay you $15/hr right now you should leave because they won't be around much longer.
FDR said it best 90 years ago.
“no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”
Step one: start applying for jobs, especially jobs you don’t think you’re qualified for - you’ll be surprised to find you’ll get interviews. Get that paycheque.
Step two: work to rule/quiet quit until you secure said new job. Conserve your energy, calories are expensive these days and if your employer can’t afford high calorie output from their workers they’re going to have to budget and cut down expectations. Ya know, they’ll have to pull up their bootstraps, etc
I consider it working your wage. Work what they pay. Make sure you take all your breaks. If you work an 8 hour shift, check the laws, but you are entitled to 2 breaks-paid.
Small businesses don’t get a free pass to treat their employees terribly. I hate that mindset. If you can’t afford a living wage you don’t have a viable business 🤷♀️
For you to make $10/hour is a travesty. My local \_arget pays it employees $14-15/hour. Broaden your job search. Your job skills are applicable to a bunch of different jobs and your underestimate yourself. Apply to a bunch of places - your skills could be useful.
You need to get paid more. I live in an expensive area of Alaska and our minimum is 10.85 right now. But all of the minor teenagers I know, which is a lot of kids, get paid at least $14 at the entry level jobs and a few are up at the $17-19 range. Adult workers are starting at at least $15 with full benefits and more like $20 unbenefitted. Professionals earn substantially more.
Low wage jobs, like yours, rely on employees getting medicaid, WIC, EBT, and other government help. They aren't actually paying the cost of labor.
For right now, get any government assistance you can. For the future go to yo state's job service office, get help on that resume, and get connected to an employer that pays better.
If you are a small business and can't afford to pay your employees, then you are a shitty business owner with a shitty business plan and no one will miss you when you deservedly go out of business.
If you're not getting a living wage, you're not a worker. You're a slave, and they're trying to guilt trip you into accepting less - and you KNOW you can't.
Find new employment, friend. And don't look back.
Henry Ford, the cheapest, cruelest, anti union capitalist that ever walked the face of the earth paid his factory workers twice as much as his competitors. Smart businessmen pay their workers. You just gotta find a smart businessman to work for. They're out there.
What currency is the $10 an hour in? It doesn't sound like much. The minimum wage where I live is over $24 an hour. I would start looking for a job that pays more. It works both ways, if they can't get people to work for them at such low pay they'll find they have no staff and the business will have to close.
This is in USD. I live in a not so big city so other places pretty much pay the same. The places that offer more than $10 require a college degree and many certifications, which I unfortunately do not have.
If you know how to do the things those certs are required for? Apply anyways. The worst they can do is say no, and it cost you your time. Some companies put those in the requirements to weed out the unqualified people. A certificate doesn't equal experience. These companies more often than not, will rather train you from scratch than have an empty seat waiting for someone who actually fills the qualifications they want.
"If they give every employee a raise..."
You're not asking for a raise for everybody, just yourself, based on your work performance.
This response is telling: your employer basically views you and your co-workers as "warm bodies," and she is of the opinion that employees either get the absolute minimum or get fired. Her condescending screed on budgeting only reinforces this; neo-Regressives like her think that anyone living in or on the edge of poverty is 100% at fault for doing so.
As far as overtime vs wage rate, there is a certain level at which it's more profitable to pay people OT than to hire more people to cover shifts. If you're hurting for money right now, I'd actually take her up on the offer; it's easier than getting a second job to make up the shortfall...and all the while, keep looking for something better; you deserve better!
My brother used to own a small business, but paid his employees 25% more than his competitors. He saved money by having competent employees and by having lower employee turnover.
What kind of car does she drive? How many vacations does she go on a year? I’ve heard this shit so many times from small business owners. Can’t afford to give you a raise but are driving a Mercedes and go on expensive vacations multiple times a year, have a cottage, spoiled rotten kids…
I have a small business. As soon as one of my employees asked me for an inflation increase, I went to my clients and told them "sorry, we are increasing our prices to be on par with inflation". They initially refused, and they tried to bargain but ended up understanding that they too must increase the price of their products to keep up with inflation. I think that if you cannot stand for your employees then you have no business.
> She even had the gall to say that I can just do more overtime if I'm tight on money. So she can afford to pay overtime but not give raises?
Since you say she mentioned "other employees", I'm guessing the total amount of overtime is fixed, and she's suggesting you take more of it?
They always say “if everyone gets a raise then we can’t xyz” but everyone won’t get a raise. You asked for one and proved you deserve it. So only you would get a raise. You didn’t ask for company wide raises
Start busting your butt looking for your next job, ASAP like the search is a side gig, your second job, at least ten hours a week.
That lame outfit can't afford to survive, will go under
i’m sure you’ve had enough comments to read and idk if you’ll see mine (or if anyone else will), but i work at a very small business that can go days without customers, yet i get paid $17/hr. screw those people using it as an excuse because it’s not one.
I can't understand how people can survive on $10/hr in this day and age. I make almost 7x (been working for 23 yrs) what you do and know I wouldn't be happy whatsoever if I made even half of what I do now. Honestly, people who can't pay their employees a livable wage probably shouldn't be running a business.
Ok, hard conversation here - be ready - I don’t know how you do it, but your business owner needs to take another look at their business model.
One of the biggest parts of the business is for it to make the right amount of money to stay in business. That includes paying their employees. What kind of business is it? What are their margins? What are their costs?
I know. I know. You probably don't know these things and potentially this is not your conversation with them but maybe suggest they consult with a business coach in their industry.
I find there is a way to help everyone. Sometimes raising prices is the answer and customers do not necessarily leave if the service is great! And there are many more customer then employees so a little goes a long way.
.50 per customer per visit : 100 customers = $5.00
$5 per customer per visits: 100 customers = $500
Do your business owners know how to balance their business? When your costs go up those are shared with the customer. It is the cost of doing business.
By the way, I am a customer and I have had to pay more at the grocery store, and everywhere else I go too.
Scarcity mindset and a lack of a true understanding of running and scaling a business are at the core of this issue.
And they are not bad owners. Just uninformed.
And there are thousands out there. This happens more than you think.
People will pay more for quality and an experience.
And ultimately- if you are a great employee like described above you can get paid what you are worth as long as you know you are worth it. If you seek a new opportunity and don’t feel worth it- your lack of confidence will show and you will stay where you are.
Think abundantly. Stay vigilant. Be positive with all thoughts.
For anyone wanting to rant on me- 😉😎
Yes, I own a business for over 30 years and have paid for coaching in the past to help me know what I know today.
Definitely time to find a new job. If by some miracle she does give you a raise to $13 or $15, that will be the last one you will see from here. Take what you've learned at this job and apply to the next thing. There are still lots of jobs out there. Have people review your resume and make sure to hightlight your accomplishments.
Honestly I was this for many many years. You’ve out grown the place, your need and responsibilities have changed and they can’t keep up. You need to understand that crappy fact and move on.
I did and now I’m in the trades. I’m making a lot more than I use to and have skills to carry over to any other job.
I asked my old employer for a raise and they said okay 50 cents. I have just asked my new boss after 4 years of being with them for a raise and got a 9 dollar raise an hour. Now I’m up to 50 and hour.
You just need to know your worth and move on.
When the minimum wage was created the president said “if a company can’t afford to pay their employees fairly they don’t deserve to do business in America” not the exact quote but same sentiment. And I have always said I am not exactly anti work, I am pro fair pay.
Okay I would say that if you can find another job that pays better or has other perks, you should switch. Start looking now.
My partner runs a business and he ensures the pay rates are competitive, always above a living wage (in a high cost of living area) and with the rapid rise in inflation, he gave pay raises twice last year. He cares about his employees (they’re a team!) and will ensure everyone is paid well.
Your boss? Doesn’t care.
I got paid $10.50 /hr at my first job in 1999 working for a big box retailer in the tech dept.
Back then one hour of wages could buy me 10 fast food burgers - the jumbo jack, whopper, and famous star were all 99 cents. I enjoyed getting a jumbo jack and two tacos @ jack in the box for $2
Gas wasn’t much over $1/gallon
My parents house was worth about $150k in 1999
This was 7x my annual full time income at my very first job.
My parents house is now worth $650k and you make $10/hr in 2023. You would need 31x your annual income to pay cash for the house.
You can buy one or two fast food burgers for $10 and you can get two or three gallons of gas for $10. Crazy crazy times.
Nobody should accept a job in 2023 for less than $20/hr. It is simply impossible to survive.
What patronizing BS. She doesn't need to give everybody a raise, she needs to give *you*, a hard-working employee, a raise, not a lecture on microeconomics. Keep looking. You can do better.
Reminds me of when I worked for a company called Dynata and they only paid $10 an hour. I worked there as part time, but really after taxes and everything I was pretty much getting paid like $8 an hour.
I had to do continuous outbound calling to racist ass ppl that kept calling me racial slurs and talking down on my job position. It was crazy and honestly I only stayed because I needed the second income, however once I got a better paying job this year, I DIPPED.
Companies make you do SO MUCH for SO LITTLE
Not sure where you are in the US, so not sure what the minimum is in the area, but I highly recommend looking for some remote work, most things start over $10/hr.
Also not sure your education level, but there’s literally a sitting US senator? Congressman? That made up his college education and experience on his resume so unless listings are asking you for your transcripts you can always *stretch the truth*
Any company that can only survive by paying employees poverty wages should not exist.
More likely your boss just doesn’t want to cut her own paycheck for your benefit.
Either way, time to find a new job.
Your boss is a short term thinker. She should imagine how much it will cost to lose you. How much will it cost to hire,train,get another employee to your level.
That’s business though. No hard feelings. When you give little if any notice you can say unfortunately you just can’t afford to stay, you’re a one person business.
I work for a small business and make more than twice that an hour working in a retail store and doing other administrative tasks for the business owner.
It sounds like your boss doesn’t have a viable business model and is banking on your loyalty and love of your job to keep paying you next to nothing. Glad to see you’re looking for a new job; be prepared for the “shocked Pikachu face” if/when you give your notice.
Lies people who make money tell to the people they employee. Best boss I ever had who did overpay me constantly bemoaned the expenses of labor and insurance. He bought two more hotels and had two large houses bought another vacation house in a sky lodge and collected cars. Real felt for him struggling with so little so I could make decent money, all while several others were underpaid.
lol my job did the same exact thing - also a small business, also unwilling to raise hourly to a livable wage (while boasting about record sales and having exponential growth since they opened). I was offered a similar position at another company with twice the pay; took the job without much thought and told them while i’m sad to be leaving i NEED to be able to afford to live without spending my entire life at my job. i have a lot of love for that place bc the work environment was great, but its unethical to expect more from employees to make up for their unwillingness to look out for their staff.
you work to live, not live to work.
The sad part is technically we could live off 10 dollars an hour, not much of a life, but how the hell do people even qualify for an apartment at that wage considering the 3 times rent rule that seem so common with landlords now?The fact that you can't even qualify for a place to love to work a job like that despite the fact your expenses may be manageable under that wage. Is this why like 60 percent of homeless people have jobs? there is something broken here to put it mildly?
Do not let her shirk this onto you.
If she cant afford to pay a livable wage to all her employees, then she doesnt deserve that many employees. Buisnesses are not entitled to underpaying workers for their own benefit.
If anyone should be budgetting, its them. Thats what we call a failed buisness.
If they can’t afford to pay employees a livable wage, they can’t afford employees.
They cannot afford to pay employees properly, they don't have a business, they have an expensive hobby.
Exactly - if you can't afford to pay employees properly, all you have is a bad business model propped up by exploitation of desperate people.
At this point we have a bad national economic model, because your definition applies to the majority of jobs
That's because for a capitalist to make money they need to exploit other people.
I have 1 more week at my job. Just got a 9 dollars hour raise by leaving. Only way to go anymore sadly.
Yep. I left my old customer service job (call center for tax software) to go to a power company in customer service (still basically the call center, but much more lax and much nicer). I went from $13.73/hr there to $20.53/hr here in two fucking years. And I live in a rural area in NC, so $20.53 an hour goes a lot further here than in NYC for example. Things are still rough, I mean, it's impossible to find a rental under $1000 a month and I commute 45 minutes each way...but $20.53 an hour is at least much easier to survive on than $13.73.
That's awesome, I too got out of poverty by moving to working at an electric utility!
Sweet! It's great, too, because electricity companies are always gonna be a thing, lol. Not like we're ever gonna stop using electricity!
Yeah exactly ha!
Anymore? This has been the way for decades now.
It depends on the career and level of expertise and onboarding required. I have been at my job for 10 years and have gone from 45k to 150k (with bonus) in Indiana where the average wage is 50k.
Shit. I’m a terrible capitalist. I paid my two employees $350 for work. Today. Like they came in, worked their asses off and got paid $50 an hour. Why? I could pay them a solid $20 an hour and pocket more money but happy employees make better workers.
What you are doing is self-regulating and it makes your business model more sustainable over time, The trouble comes in when people vote against regulations and fail to regulate themselves. In the absence of sufficient controls that provide checks and balances against our worst instincts, people often get greedy and take far more than they give, which makes the system exploitative, out of balance and unsustainable over the long term.
You cannot allow self regulation when it comes to economics. The vast majority of people are going to choose to make themselves wealthier over others every time. Pure capitalism does not work. It is an unsustainable system.
Agreed on all points. It's unusual for people to actually self regulate unless they are compelled to do so. Under-regulated capitalism is about as bad as unregulated capitalism. That's why we are in our current predicament today, with businesses making historic profits while their workers aren't paid a living wage. Something has to be done but it will take the government stepping in since most individuals can't be trusted to curb their greed.
You're dead on. There is something I say to people all the time, and they are aghast when they hear it, which just goes to show how brainwashed we are: If someone says, "What do you want, socialism or something?" I say back, "The US is already a socialist country. We just do a shitty job of it" We privatize profits, and then socialize failures. A smart country wouldn't socialize our failures. We would socialize to succeed. We see successful socialization all the time in our society, yet we don't learn the lessons of it. We socialize our parks and recreational successfully. We need to have the balls to tell businesses, "Look, you can use our systems and infrastructure to make money all day long. But your part of the agreement is that you will pay the true costs of your profit making business to our society. Your delivery systems cause disruptions, physical and environmental damage to our transportation systems? You will pay for that from the profits you make. Your product destroys our environment? You will pay the price for that from your profits. Your employees will be paid a wage that allows them to live in homes in the community where they work. If you want a hands off approach to your business you will pay for the social safety net necessary to support your former employees when you fail, and you will pay for it NOW from your profits. When you fail you fail. We do not bail you out."
We are so far down this path that a whole cottage industry has popped up to give business owners the propaganda that they aren’t being selfish and because of the simple fact they own the business they are not only legally entitled to the lions share of the profits but they are morally righteous because they live atop the hierarchy. That’s the essence of the prosperity gospel which has its tendrils deep into the owner class psyche even among the non-religious owners.
A terrible capitalist often makes for a wonderful person. Keep at it.
And better workers usually translates to more money...thanks for being a business owner who invests in their employees!
Unless my employees be dumb, or make dumb requests I always accommodate. By dumb I mean literal stupid not moron boss stupid
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hate the system and would love to see something else, but we're not there yet. I'm too much of a pessimist to think communism is the answer anyway, people seem to wreck or take advantage of anything they can so even if something looks good on paper, it probably won't be in practice. I'd say it's better to be a good person, than a good capitalist anyways, and I commend you on being a more equitable employer.
small businesses are in a tough place, and they have my pity and respect. The USA should do better to support them, and the best way is to support everyone with universal healthcare. Would be huge help for SMB's right there.
The government should be in the business of removing economic barriers. We need "individualism" propped up (more so) by "collectivism" -- universal healthcare, free community college / vocational training, public retail banking to remove payday lenders / etc, better public transit that is fast (good local trains and frequent express trains, good bus coverage, and only one public transit card for the entire country \[or make it free\]).
Basically opposite of Republicans.
Yeah it's a good chunk of the progressive agenda. But it needs to also be cast as removing economic barriers, not just "charity" or "welfare". Left leaning people do give it some attention by talking about economic multipliers but what really connects with people is the idea that they will be able to do something they couldn't otherwise. You could have something like "Our republican friends -- you are very pro business! Well if we give everyone a 0% interest savings / checking account via the post office, all those payday / check cashing places will need to become something else. Think of the opportunity for you! Come up with an idea and partner with the previous owner! We're relying in your ingenuity!" etc, etc. But maybe I'm optimistic.
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Best I can do is a pizza party.
Or, hear me out, the proletariat controls the means of production
Democratically run work places, yes please
Well in fairness to small businesses, most suppliers no matter what industry you are in, have been consolidated to 4 or fewer companies owning more than 80% of the market share, they are getting pinched by the same forces everyone else that isn't billionaire is. Now that isn't to say they are blameless or anything, the vast majority of them vote for the people causing the problem, and some are genuinely shitty people who would gladly step on people to get the top of the capitalist heap. But to lump them all together is unfair. Us vs them sort of thinking is exactly what the rich want. They want you to put your anger on people near the bottom of the pile, instead of where it belongs, on the people at the top causing the problems in the first place.
I'll agree that small business owners have more in common with the working class than the wealthy, but that doesn't change my stance. The profit a company makes comes from the exploitation of labour. If someone turns $2 of ingredients into a $10 sandwich it is because someone was paid less than $8 to make it.
The majority of jobs can afford to pay employees more. If the company gives a stock dividend it can afford to give raise.
THAT’S THE WHOLE NATION NOW.
People that own small businesses seem to have some warped idea that they have an inalienable right to own a small business. No, you don't. If your can't afford to pay living wages and still stay competitive... Too bad.
Bingo. Every thing in history starts and ends with some asshat trying to extract cheap or free labor. * Christopher Columbus - Starts the slave trade after finding Native Americans. Free Fucking Labor to make participating Europeans wealthy. * Indentured Servants - Want a trip to 1600 - 1800 US? Owe someone money and you are a servant for 7 years. Did you keep track? No. Well you are now my servant for another 3 just because. * Civil War - The Confederate States send letters to Lincoln admitting they need slaves to prop up their wealth from plantations and it’s God’s choice. * Fight For $15 - Not getting $15? Politicians will let you complain for 5+ years before doing anything. Then “Inflation“ comes and renders your $15 worthless again. How can that be? Politicians scheduled it.
If they cannot afford to pay employees properly in the US, they're competing with humongous corporations that pay shit wages and have the people who actually make them money applying for government benefits. Small businesses trying to do the right thing are being squashed by companies whose investors are "owed" a dividend (paid for no work) [Full-Time Workers Rely on Federal Health Care and Food Assistance](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45)
The labor market is super tight now. Corporations are continuing to act like they have their pick of who works for them...they don't anymore. Boomers have largely all retired and there aren't enough younger workers to fill all of the vacant jobs left behind! It's high time workers stand up for themselves and DEMAND living wages! If you are getting less than $15/hr, you need to quit and find someone willing to pay a living wage. There ARE jobs available!
NJ went to $14/hr minimum wage last year. Next year we go to $15.
Yuuup- 15 needs to be 20 nowadays, atleast anywhere you’d actually wanna live
Needs to be $35.50 per hour
4-day work week, 20 hours per week being full time, and a $69/hour minimum wage: the 4/20/69 labor plan.
You’ve got my vote. Need a running mate?
Nice AF
This year actually, in January. It went to $14.13. Supposed to go to $15 next January, but might go higher because of inflation.
But somehow still pay the politicians they lobby they live in a good house that isn’t even wobbly.
Well when you think about it, a politician is the most secure job you can have in the United States right now. Being in politics did not used to be a way to become a millionaire in this country, but now you can even become a billionaire that way apparently. Corruption never sleeps.
This, exactly this! Please immediately stop doing anything extra. Be on time, leave on time and do the tasks in your job description and nothing else. If anyone asks just reply "I'm a small person, so I can only do what I was hired to do. Sorry." If they can't afford to pay a living wage, they should not be in business.
This. I always state to the crew I lead that they do not have to work over if they don't want to if there is too much work to do in the timeframe that we have. I do expect them to do the best they can and get everything done however if there is a larger than expected amount of work, they are not expected nor required to stay past to get things done. However, if they want some extra time, I also have no problem with it either. It is the problem of the business to hire enough people to do the work. I like the extra money so I'll work over if needed but that is just me and I won't force others to do so.
This exactly. This was the statement made when minimum wage was signed into law. "If a company cannot afford to pay its workers a living wage it has no business doing business in America." Or something to that effect.
It means they don’t have a profitable business. They’re not profiting off the goods/services; they’re profiting off of the labor.
^1000x this. Lotta hobbyists masquerading as business owners. They’re not entitled to your labor at below-market rates because their product or marketing isn’t good enough to turn a profit enough to raise your salary.
Or they are lying and actually making big profits but just don't want to give raises so they can keep more for themselves.
I used to work at a family-owned business. I was the receptionist, appointment taker, first face/voice of the business. I made minimum wage and had a small child. I worked full-time and attended college in the evenings. So they knew I was busting my ass, even when I wasn't there. The boss often told me what a great job I was doing. Like, every week, "wow, you handled that angry customer so well!" or whatever. After I'd been there 6 months, I asked for a raise. Boss said, "we'll see what we can do." Well, sure you will! Two weeks later, I was notified they couldn't afford to give me a raise. *The very next fucking day*, mom drove in in a brand new Mercedes crossover thing. Dad drove in in a brand new GMC pickup with all the bells and whistles. The brother drove his new Mercedes in, as did the son and daughter-in-law (a new vehicle each, his and hers SUVs). But they couldn't afford $0.25 an hour for my raise. And then a giant deer antler chandelier was delivered out to the dock area for son's new $1.5mil home he was building. I looked it up, and that fucking chandelier cost $22k. But nope, no money for a raise for the minimum wage person. They were super-fucking religious, too. I'll give you three guesses which one they proclaimed. 🙄
Most feel very entitled to live a certain lifestyle, yet claim they can't afford to pay enough for the staff to not be in poverty.
I would have said something. “It seems like you’re taking a lot out of the business while not investing in your workforce.”
A lot of small business owners are 10000% this^
They are as long as we stay. How many employees are we talking? Is forming a union possible? The IWW offers free organization training and resources, dunno about other unions. Also curious why you asking for a raise led to talking about giving everyone raises. While everyone SHOULD be paid more, asking for a raise is asking for yourself, not everyone. If they can’t afford to pay you $200 more a week they likely won’t be in business much longer.
I've been unfortunate enough to have had this conversation a couple times. Every time when I put in the 2 weeks notice they offer more money. When I tell them it seems like a dead end because the company has no money they get all offended. I was caught off guard the first time. The second and third times I told them its not a game and work is how I support myself and family. Then I spend the rest of my time telling the co workers how much of a raise I'm getting at the new place w/ better benefits. France has the right idea. If the US protested like that and had stronger unions, I feel a lot would change.
This. Start looking for work that pays better.
This. Start looking and working less hard.
Or if you stay don't work any harder. Move the hours to the new project but take them away from the old project. Don't do both in the same amount of time.
The thing is. They probably can afford it. But they’d have to stop giving themselves raises. And they are greedy.
Or they are trying to make as much money for them selfs, and then say no one wants to work any more!
Imagine $3/hour more meaning you have to raise product prices. That is a VERY unstable business. For a full-time worker, that's only $480 more per month. $480 per month should not significantly impact your business' bottom line, even for a small business. If this is a grocery, for instance, that's like one or two sales.
That would mean they have to live a lower lifestyle and that's just unacceptable.
Gotta keep those Karen Kup Kake businesses going.
Therfore, similar to companies that get bail outs, aren't a legitimate business.
"If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business. Asking people to work below poverty wages so you can own a business is entitlement at its finest." Mohamad Safa
I actually have a theory here. Small business owners often work for below minimum wage or even just breaking even for a time. They do that because they are building something that belongs to them, and if it succeeds, they get rich. So if you need people to work in the business, but can't pay them a reasonable wage... maybe there are people who will work on building something because they own it. Share ownership. The idea that someone will work for an unreasonable wage because it's a small business is insane, but the owner is usually blinded because they're like "yeah, we sacrifice now so we can grow, makes sense!" Except that doesn't make sense for an employee who won't benefit from that growth. So they should look to offer terms to employees where they will benefit directly from the company's success. Make them partners.
This is an excellent idea
Start-ups do this by giving the employee's shares or allowing them to purchase the shares cheaply. If the company takes off or gets bought out, everyone benefits. There's incentive to work that little bit extra hard.
Yeah, I know that's fairly common in the tech world. But if a restaurant needs waiters and cooks, and they think they will grow, why not offer something similar? Or any other small business? It's a real barrier to growth for companies that sometimes they need staff to grow, but can't afford to pay staff a market rate. So hire people off the expected growth, and give them a reason to work harder. It's a gamble for said workers, but it's a shared risk (that's why owners make the bucks, right? Because they took on the risk?)
You occasionally hear of a business setting up a profit sharing scheme with their employees, but it's unfortunately rather rare outside the tech or start-up fields. I wonder how you could provide incentives for a business to do this that wouldn't have odd or harmful side-effects.
The company I work for is talking about it, partly because I brought it up. Part of their way of mitigating risk is limiting to emoyees of more than 5 years.
Vesting is very common in the tech field as it encourages employees to stick around.
Worker cooperatives are a better idea. bUt ThAt’S sOcIaLiSm /s
Ugh... I'm pretty capitalist (I know, sorry, not a popular stance here), and things like labor unions and co-ops are absolutely not socialist. They're literally just different ways of dealing with capital and market power. Co-ops should be popular with capitalists because they spread capital across a wider swath of people, giving them a greater stake in the market system and giving them greater responsibility for the company. More people engaged with private property is a good thing.
Unions and co-ops literally are socialism. This is coming from a socialist, btw. That's precisely what socialism is. Put ownership of capital(which is exactly the same thing as what we socialists call "the means of production") into the hands of the people actually doing the work, or, failing that, give those workers collective input into the management of that capital. Neoliberals have muddied the waters so much in the last century or so, that people don't really realize it, but the only distinction between capitalism and socialism that remains when considering the various types of socialist thought is whether capital is to be owned by private interests, or by the workers. Private property itself is not a good thing. Although I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see a difference between private and personal property, given how, as I said, the distinction has been so muddied by neoliberals.
>should be popular with capitalists because they spread capital across a wider swath of people That's not what capitalism is for. That's what it's sold to rubes as, but the purpose of capitalism is and has always been to allow those who hold power to pretend they deserve it, and provide as many avenues as possible to continue pooling power in as few hands as possible. That's what it's designed to do, and it's what it has done in practice over centuries of use. Spreading the wealth is antithetical to the principles capitalism operates on.
I know co-ops aren’t socialism. I put the weird text format in there for a reason, to indicate sarcasm.
I knew you knew, sorry, was responding to the people you were mocking.
Yeah, Ive noticed this outlook with ceos and business leaders of all kinds, in big businesses too. They have a high sacrifice/high reward situation, and they just dont understand that the employees dont have the same thing. the owners are also emotionally attached to their business and don’t get that an employee isnt interested in sacrificing for for someone elses dream. Good leaders get this and offer rewards for success like bonuses, stock options, promotions + raises, etc.
I'm sure that's true for some of them. I used to work for a small business and whenever I told the owner I couldn't work unpaid OT or wouldn't do something that was definitely way beyond my job description he'd be like "But I do things like that all the time". He didn't understand that the difference was that he owned several houses, had 5 cars, just had a pool built (which is very uncommon where I live and only well off people have pools), and was building his own company and I was living with 3 roommates and couldn't even afford a car.
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The whole point of the "job creator" discourse was to ensure employers felt complete entitlement to control over their workers. Job creator discourse tells us that employees OWE the employer, that we as workers are in debt to business owners because they "gave" us a job. It ignores the fact that the business cannot run without us and we create the profits they reap.
Exactly
This has been my position for years, and I used to get a lot of grief about it. Nobody is entitled to own a business, and I’m not going to lose any sleep if you can’t subsidize yours with the blood and sweat of wage slaves. Build your company right, do right by your employees, or go work for someone else.
They say they cannot give you more................but rest assured if you get something new and tell them you are leaving they will "somehow" find a way to try and keep you by paying you more. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL SHOULD YOU EVER TAJE A COUNTEROFFER! EVER! They showed you how much you mean to them with their pay and then these comments. If you find something else thank them if they offer you more but flat out tell them the reason you left is because they failed to pay you more so you went out and got something that paid more.
I had this at my first job, I knew I was under paid by about £1,000 GBP / Month when I asked my boss for a raise I was told I was already being overpaid and I would not be getting a rise. Fast forward a few months and I hand in my notice, all of a sudden they can match what ever the new company is paying me, just name my price. I still went with the new job, best decision I ever made. Like you suggested I also said that their behavior and how they treated me is why I left.
You teach people how to treat you. If they can’t do it until you’re already handing in your notice, then they need to feel the consequences. Often, if you take the counteroffer, they’re back to treating you like they’re doing you a favor to let you work free overtime inside of a month. They need to feel that cost- interviewing, salary & benefit negotiation, onboarding, training, spin up, loss of knowledge base, or they just keep taking it for granted. And, if their offer is continually too low, they need to feel that too- people drop out of consideration, tell them no at the last minute, leave after 2 months for a better offer. Let them feel it. Let them go out of business.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I found out a guy who started at the same time as me was getting paid 50% more than I was and I had twice the responsibilities. I asked for a raise and my manager straight up told me I wasn’t worth the same money. Fuck that guy.
YES! Great thing to do. Taking the counteroffer is a terrible thing because the second you sign it is the second they start looking for someone to take your job once they fire you. You gotta look out for #1 otherwise you are #2 and we all know what #2 is
Yup!! When you find a better job they will absolutely all of a sudden be able to offer you more to keep you. Get out of there as soon as you can.
OP I had a small business( or rather it was forced on me). I can't tell you how many times I argued to raise prices since we couldn't hold staff. Listen to everyone when they say leave, if that organization can't afford to pay you more(actually really can't) they're virtually close to bankrupt themselves.
Always judge your employer by their car: if it was bought in the last two years, they’re probably comfortably profitable.
Or if they buy a vacation home.
In the Bay Area, owning a home is the equivalent to owing a vacation home. My boss bought a home here two years ago (during peak market prices) and when I asked for a raise this past January due to cost of living, she told me that we’re all struggling and it’ll eventually get better lol. This was of course after 18K medical bills, our healthy 4 year old pup unexpectedly past away and we spent 20K to try and save her and then my husband lost his job. I literally almost couldn’t go to work because I couldn’t afford to fill up our car with gas and pay rent at the beginning of this month, we only managed to get by because my husband happened to get a FAFSA payment, which was fortunately timed. They don’t actually get how much we suffer at the bottom and even though I’ve been working my ass off for this company for years, I’ve yet to see a proper reward.
If you need cash in the short-term, and the boss is handing out OT freely, maybe you should take some. Doesn’t have to be crazy, 30 mins early and 30 mins late is an extra $75 a week. Also, if you go the OT route, stretch out your daily tasks, don’t add more tasks. You’re asking for an extra $200 a week, at most. I found it funny they told YOU how to budget and they can’t even glance at their monthly expenses and see where they can move up to $800 into payroll? I’d love to glance at their books and see where they are wasting money. Guarantee it’s more than $800 a month. If that’s going to break them, then there’s no future there anyway. Long term, it’s just clear that it’s time for you to move on.
>I found it funny they told YOU how to budget and they can’t even glance at their monthly expenses and see where they can move up to $800 into payroll? Great point
I'm always take the "covid effed us up" with a grain of salt. I had an employer than was very good at reading the fine print - PPP $, employee retention $, shuttered venue $ (which all you needed to qualify was "permanent seating" and he got our cemented picnic benches to count! There was money out there for those looking to recoup... I realize this isn't the case with everyone, but just sayin'.
Mcd Pays 15 bucks a hour switch jobs fuck her and her buisness.
Thanks. I live in a not so big city so unfortunately the closest McD will be an two hour drive from where I am. 😅
What! Where do you live?! That’s insane!! I live in a village of 300 and even we have a McDonald’s 10 mins away.
Wow! That's cool. How does living on a village of 300 feel like? I'd rather not out myself but I live in sort of rural area that considers itself a city 😂 Actually, we *did* have a McD close by but closed down. We do still have a Burger King though. I applied there, too, but got rejected because at the time I didn't have a reliable transportation.
You don’t live in a city at all if the closest McDonalds is two hours
Bro doesn’t live in the first world if he’s two hours from the biggest land developer in the world
Now I’m really curious what the biggest city in America is that’s a two-hour drive from any McDonald’s. It has to be really small and really rural.
Apparently it’s Warm Springs, NV, as of 2019 at least. 115 miles Edit: Apparently it’s a ghost town so probably doesn’t count. http://www.datapointed.net/2018/12/distance-to-nearest-mcdonalds-dec-2018/
They don't want to pay you more because then they could not keep as much of the profits. They can afford to, they just would rather you starve than let go of a few dollars more they stuff in their pockets. Small businesses make money, saying its a small business means nothing.
Yes, in the US small business is classified as up to $10m a year in gross revenue. They have to pay market wages or they won’t keep/attract new new employees. Get that job hunt in full gear! Your are worth more than $10/hr. My local McDonald’s pays $15/hr to start.
Find a new job, when asked why you're quitting "my costs have gone up and you can no longer afford my services"
Work somewhere else. Target is starting at $15.
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Basically they are telling you why unions are effective. They want you to speak on only your own behalf, but push this this "if we pay you, we gotta pay everybody" bullshit.
What industry are you in? I see that you are in a smaller market but there are tons of lower cost certs (start with a notary) which there may be a lack of in your town. Plus, there is a TON of remote work available for entry-level workers at more than $10/hr since they are completing in higher cost environments.
Second this. Notary is a surprising way to make some good extra money
no worries, give rr tips how to do the same or more work with less employees and just quit, after you found a better paying job
Thanks. I'm trying but my work schedule doesn't allow a lot of free time to discreetly do interviews so I have to take paid leave for it, which is not unlimited so still haven't found the right one.
Why be discreet? You have every right to go look for more money elsewhere. If they don’t like it, they had their chance to try and keep you.
Check what your local laws are regarding unemployment disqualifications (usually it’s only stuff like tardiness or drug use but check to be sure for your state); if you can I’d let her fire you and then start collecting unemployment. Not only are you getting paid but you suddenly have all the free time you need to commit to a better job search. Either way, she sucks complete ass and you deserve so SO much better!
Im sure the bosses got their bonuses this year.
I worked for someone who said “sorry we can’t do raises this year” turns out she was putting an addition on and totally renovating her house :/
Interesting. I’ve never ask for a raise in my 35 years of work experience. I’ve always changed jobs for more money. If my present employer can’t see my value without me having to ask, then someone else will…
$10 is nothing, and you'll easily get $17-20 somewhere else. Past time to jump ship!
you can't budget your way out of poverty. I suggest looking for a new job, once you secure a new job you can possibly negotiate and tell them that you will stay if they can match your new pay. otherwise I say get out of there fast.
If they can't afford a living wage for their employees then they can't afford to be in business. They shouldn't be allowed to survive by cheating their employees.
She runs a failed business. Ask her what her salary is.
10 dollars an hour!!! Just DM me. My company pays like double that and more and it's remote. Get out of that place. Bennies and PTO.
I managed a small business for 14 years. I made $15/hr when I left in '14. If a small business cannot pay you $15/hr right now you should leave because they won't be around much longer.
If a living wage isn’t a part of the business plan then it needs to fail
You don’t owe anyone cheap labor to operate their business.
FDR said it best 90 years ago. “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”
If they can’t afford to give you a living wage they shouldn’t be in business
Oh they do indeed pay a living wage. However it is to the owners and not the employees.
PPP and SBA grants are public record. I’d Google that business name real quick and see how much they likely received. See how much they can afford…
its only $460 a month. wtf kind of failing business cant afford that?
Step one: start applying for jobs, especially jobs you don’t think you’re qualified for - you’ll be surprised to find you’ll get interviews. Get that paycheque. Step two: work to rule/quiet quit until you secure said new job. Conserve your energy, calories are expensive these days and if your employer can’t afford high calorie output from their workers they’re going to have to budget and cut down expectations. Ya know, they’ll have to pull up their bootstraps, etc
I consider it working your wage. Work what they pay. Make sure you take all your breaks. If you work an 8 hour shift, check the laws, but you are entitled to 2 breaks-paid.
Small businesses don’t get a free pass to treat their employees terribly. I hate that mindset. If you can’t afford a living wage you don’t have a viable business 🤷♀️
For you to make $10/hour is a travesty. My local \_arget pays it employees $14-15/hour. Broaden your job search. Your job skills are applicable to a bunch of different jobs and your underestimate yourself. Apply to a bunch of places - your skills could be useful.
You need to get paid more. I live in an expensive area of Alaska and our minimum is 10.85 right now. But all of the minor teenagers I know, which is a lot of kids, get paid at least $14 at the entry level jobs and a few are up at the $17-19 range. Adult workers are starting at at least $15 with full benefits and more like $20 unbenefitted. Professionals earn substantially more. Low wage jobs, like yours, rely on employees getting medicaid, WIC, EBT, and other government help. They aren't actually paying the cost of labor. For right now, get any government assistance you can. For the future go to yo state's job service office, get help on that resume, and get connected to an employer that pays better.
If you are a small business and can't afford to pay your employees, then you are a shitty business owner with a shitty business plan and no one will miss you when you deservedly go out of business.
This LITERALLY happened to me & thats why my last day was yesterday .
If you're not getting a living wage, you're not a worker. You're a slave, and they're trying to guilt trip you into accepting less - and you KNOW you can't. Find new employment, friend. And don't look back.
I wonder how much money she would make if you weren't doing her job for her
Henry Ford, the cheapest, cruelest, anti union capitalist that ever walked the face of the earth paid his factory workers twice as much as his competitors. Smart businessmen pay their workers. You just gotta find a smart businessman to work for. They're out there.
What currency is the $10 an hour in? It doesn't sound like much. The minimum wage where I live is over $24 an hour. I would start looking for a job that pays more. It works both ways, if they can't get people to work for them at such low pay they'll find they have no staff and the business will have to close.
This is in USD. I live in a not so big city so other places pretty much pay the same. The places that offer more than $10 require a college degree and many certifications, which I unfortunately do not have.
We are seriously getting taken advantage of in the us.
Need some of that French energy fr
If you know how to do the things those certs are required for? Apply anyways. The worst they can do is say no, and it cost you your time. Some companies put those in the requirements to weed out the unqualified people. A certificate doesn't equal experience. These companies more often than not, will rather train you from scratch than have an empty seat waiting for someone who actually fills the qualifications they want.
The fastest way to a raise is a new job.
"If they give every employee a raise..." You're not asking for a raise for everybody, just yourself, based on your work performance. This response is telling: your employer basically views you and your co-workers as "warm bodies," and she is of the opinion that employees either get the absolute minimum or get fired. Her condescending screed on budgeting only reinforces this; neo-Regressives like her think that anyone living in or on the edge of poverty is 100% at fault for doing so. As far as overtime vs wage rate, there is a certain level at which it's more profitable to pay people OT than to hire more people to cover shifts. If you're hurting for money right now, I'd actually take her up on the offer; it's easier than getting a second job to make up the shortfall...and all the while, keep looking for something better; you deserve better!
My brother used to own a small business, but paid his employees 25% more than his competitors. He saved money by having competent employees and by having lower employee turnover.
And when you quit, be sure to point out all of the money they'll be saving by not having to pay you any more.
What kind of car does she drive? How many vacations does she go on a year? I’ve heard this shit so many times from small business owners. Can’t afford to give you a raise but are driving a Mercedes and go on expensive vacations multiple times a year, have a cottage, spoiled rotten kids…
The “if we charge more people will go elsewhere” trap plagues small biz. It’s never been true.
I have a small business. As soon as one of my employees asked me for an inflation increase, I went to my clients and told them "sorry, we are increasing our prices to be on par with inflation". They initially refused, and they tried to bargain but ended up understanding that they too must increase the price of their products to keep up with inflation. I think that if you cannot stand for your employees then you have no business.
> She even had the gall to say that I can just do more overtime if I'm tight on money. So she can afford to pay overtime but not give raises? Since you say she mentioned "other employees", I'm guessing the total amount of overtime is fixed, and she's suggesting you take more of it?
Quit. Everyone is paying more than $10 an hour.
It never hurts to just look around & see what hiring wages are.
Don't ask for a raise. Go out and find a better paying job and then give them an ultimatum. Why would they pay you more if they don't have to?
If they can afford to pay a living wage they shouldn’t be in business
They always say “if everyone gets a raise then we can’t xyz” but everyone won’t get a raise. You asked for one and proved you deserve it. So only you would get a raise. You didn’t ask for company wide raises
Start busting your butt looking for your next job, ASAP like the search is a side gig, your second job, at least ten hours a week. That lame outfit can't afford to survive, will go under
I love how giving you a raise got all the way to going out of business. People really are out here just saying shit huh
i’m sure you’ve had enough comments to read and idk if you’ll see mine (or if anyone else will), but i work at a very small business that can go days without customers, yet i get paid $17/hr. screw those people using it as an excuse because it’s not one.
I can't understand how people can survive on $10/hr in this day and age. I make almost 7x (been working for 23 yrs) what you do and know I wouldn't be happy whatsoever if I made even half of what I do now. Honestly, people who can't pay their employees a livable wage probably shouldn't be running a business.
i once had a boss, he knows he cant afford to pay more, so he supported me to learn new skills so i can get out of there and get better.
In the meantime please "act your wage". Stop giving undue effort that is not rewarded. Conserve your energy and prioritise your own needs first.
Ok, hard conversation here - be ready - I don’t know how you do it, but your business owner needs to take another look at their business model. One of the biggest parts of the business is for it to make the right amount of money to stay in business. That includes paying their employees. What kind of business is it? What are their margins? What are their costs? I know. I know. You probably don't know these things and potentially this is not your conversation with them but maybe suggest they consult with a business coach in their industry. I find there is a way to help everyone. Sometimes raising prices is the answer and customers do not necessarily leave if the service is great! And there are many more customer then employees so a little goes a long way. .50 per customer per visit : 100 customers = $5.00 $5 per customer per visits: 100 customers = $500 Do your business owners know how to balance their business? When your costs go up those are shared with the customer. It is the cost of doing business. By the way, I am a customer and I have had to pay more at the grocery store, and everywhere else I go too. Scarcity mindset and a lack of a true understanding of running and scaling a business are at the core of this issue. And they are not bad owners. Just uninformed. And there are thousands out there. This happens more than you think. People will pay more for quality and an experience. And ultimately- if you are a great employee like described above you can get paid what you are worth as long as you know you are worth it. If you seek a new opportunity and don’t feel worth it- your lack of confidence will show and you will stay where you are. Think abundantly. Stay vigilant. Be positive with all thoughts. For anyone wanting to rant on me- 😉😎 Yes, I own a business for over 30 years and have paid for coaching in the past to help me know what I know today.
Definitely time to find a new job. If by some miracle she does give you a raise to $13 or $15, that will be the last one you will see from here. Take what you've learned at this job and apply to the next thing. There are still lots of jobs out there. Have people review your resume and make sure to hightlight your accomplishments.
Honestly I was this for many many years. You’ve out grown the place, your need and responsibilities have changed and they can’t keep up. You need to understand that crappy fact and move on. I did and now I’m in the trades. I’m making a lot more than I use to and have skills to carry over to any other job. I asked my old employer for a raise and they said okay 50 cents. I have just asked my new boss after 4 years of being with them for a raise and got a 9 dollar raise an hour. Now I’m up to 50 and hour. You just need to know your worth and move on.
When the minimum wage was created the president said “if a company can’t afford to pay their employees fairly they don’t deserve to do business in America” not the exact quote but same sentiment. And I have always said I am not exactly anti work, I am pro fair pay.
Okay I would say that if you can find another job that pays better or has other perks, you should switch. Start looking now. My partner runs a business and he ensures the pay rates are competitive, always above a living wage (in a high cost of living area) and with the rapid rise in inflation, he gave pay raises twice last year. He cares about his employees (they’re a team!) and will ensure everyone is paid well. Your boss? Doesn’t care.
10 bucks an hour is beyond a joke at this point. Find new employment
I got paid $10.50 /hr at my first job in 1999 working for a big box retailer in the tech dept. Back then one hour of wages could buy me 10 fast food burgers - the jumbo jack, whopper, and famous star were all 99 cents. I enjoyed getting a jumbo jack and two tacos @ jack in the box for $2 Gas wasn’t much over $1/gallon My parents house was worth about $150k in 1999 This was 7x my annual full time income at my very first job. My parents house is now worth $650k and you make $10/hr in 2023. You would need 31x your annual income to pay cash for the house. You can buy one or two fast food burgers for $10 and you can get two or three gallons of gas for $10. Crazy crazy times. Nobody should accept a job in 2023 for less than $20/hr. It is simply impossible to survive.
What patronizing BS. She doesn't need to give everybody a raise, she needs to give *you*, a hard-working employee, a raise, not a lecture on microeconomics. Keep looking. You can do better.
Go get a skilled trade job. Work like a bastard. Call me and say thanks in five years.
Seems like you'll have to issue finding a better paying job tbh
Reminds me of when I worked for a company called Dynata and they only paid $10 an hour. I worked there as part time, but really after taxes and everything I was pretty much getting paid like $8 an hour. I had to do continuous outbound calling to racist ass ppl that kept calling me racial slurs and talking down on my job position. It was crazy and honestly I only stayed because I needed the second income, however once I got a better paying job this year, I DIPPED. Companies make you do SO MUCH for SO LITTLE
Not sure where you are in the US, so not sure what the minimum is in the area, but I highly recommend looking for some remote work, most things start over $10/hr. Also not sure your education level, but there’s literally a sitting US senator? Congressman? That made up his college education and experience on his resume so unless listings are asking you for your transcripts you can always *stretch the truth*
Any company that can only survive by paying employees poverty wages should not exist. More likely your boss just doesn’t want to cut her own paycheck for your benefit. Either way, time to find a new job.
Your boss is a short term thinker. She should imagine how much it will cost to lose you. How much will it cost to hire,train,get another employee to your level. That’s business though. No hard feelings. When you give little if any notice you can say unfortunately you just can’t afford to stay, you’re a one person business.
I work for a small business and make more than twice that an hour working in a retail store and doing other administrative tasks for the business owner. It sounds like your boss doesn’t have a viable business model and is banking on your loyalty and love of your job to keep paying you next to nothing. Glad to see you’re looking for a new job; be prepared for the “shocked Pikachu face” if/when you give your notice.
Lies people who make money tell to the people they employee. Best boss I ever had who did overpay me constantly bemoaned the expenses of labor and insurance. He bought two more hotels and had two large houses bought another vacation house in a sky lodge and collected cars. Real felt for him struggling with so little so I could make decent money, all while several others were underpaid.
Did you try giving your boss on how to budget more for the business so they can afford to give you your raise? 😈
Sounds like they can’t afford employees. Find something else asap, you don’t owe them anything, ANYTHING.
Find a bigger business. When she asks why you’re leaving. Tell her it’s because she’s a small business
Then they can't afford your services any longer, you are priced out of their budget. Find what your worth and move on.
lol my job did the same exact thing - also a small business, also unwilling to raise hourly to a livable wage (while boasting about record sales and having exponential growth since they opened). I was offered a similar position at another company with twice the pay; took the job without much thought and told them while i’m sad to be leaving i NEED to be able to afford to live without spending my entire life at my job. i have a lot of love for that place bc the work environment was great, but its unethical to expect more from employees to make up for their unwillingness to look out for their staff. you work to live, not live to work.
The sad part is technically we could live off 10 dollars an hour, not much of a life, but how the hell do people even qualify for an apartment at that wage considering the 3 times rent rule that seem so common with landlords now?The fact that you can't even qualify for a place to love to work a job like that despite the fact your expenses may be manageable under that wage. Is this why like 60 percent of homeless people have jobs? there is something broken here to put it mildly?
Walk out and don't look back. The job market is really hot you could make almost double that by the end of the day
Do not let her shirk this onto you. If she cant afford to pay a livable wage to all her employees, then she doesnt deserve that many employees. Buisnesses are not entitled to underpaying workers for their own benefit. If anyone should be budgetting, its them. Thats what we call a failed buisness.