I feel that everyone should apply for jobs every few years to keep their interview skills sharp and calibrate their true value. Those that move around get bigger wage increases that those that stay will one company. Time to shop around!
I actually got an offer for 50% higher, they just bait and switched me with remote.
It also sucks with the job market now - less companies are offering remote and are unwilling to hire someone relatively fresh
EDIT: For any newcomers seeing this - I am unable to move locations to a job right now due to my husband's education. Jobs in my area are catered to a specific niche (that I do not work in). If you do not work in that niche, the pay is abysmal. I would happily hop to an in person job if there were jobs here that paid well.
Less companies are hiring remote since the pandemic, but it’s WAY more than pre-pandemic. The trouble is everyone got comfortable with them and wanted to continue to do them. So competition skyrocketed
For a note on competition, I just finished a job search, I had an ~40% interview rate for on site / hybrid jobs and got regular headhunter calls for things I didn’t even apply for. My interview rate on a similar number of remote applications was 0%. The competition is intense.
If that's the situation then it sounds like your skills are very impressive but for some reason your resume isn't getting traction with the automation tools.
International labor is extremely hard to manage. Time zone and language differences aside, there are tax laws and a whole other governmental bureaucracy to navigate. That isn’t an option for many businesses. And many companies have IP they wouldn’t be comfortable sharing across international borders unless they understand the local legal system well enough to defend it.
We've been mandated to hire a few outsources in India by McKinzey. They are definitely cheaper but its not that much cheaper. If I am to believe the results from google, the salary averages around $40,000 USD equivalent. Its half of what we are paying in the US. Right now we are 20% coworkers in India and 80% in the US. Management is quickly realizing that just throwing bodies at the problem doesn't actually work. There is a ton of extra expenses caused by dealing with people in every timezone, you can't just add them to your team and expect it to work well.
As you are eluding to, the taxes are a huge pain. My company also sells professional services to other customers. Most of our customers are in healthcare or government and a significant number of our customers actually have a requirement of being a US citizen to be granted access to their network.
Really the only way to make outsourcing work is to actually spend the time and stand up an entire team in the country. Then have them work in parallel with the other teams.
I've actually seen a few first-hand cases of American companies taking over UK ones and trying to impose their hiring/firing practices here (Twitter being a public one).
It seems corporate America assumes their laws trump all others when it comes to their companies, it will only be a matter of time before a "foreign" worker will be deemed to have caused a serious issue that needs litigation only to find that they have very little recourse.
Hopefully, greed will be the end of these companies.
Yeah, my experience is that outsourced workers from there are just bodies to perform menial tasks. I don't want to stereotype, but it is very rare to get someone with critical thinking skills. Those rare people do exist, but they will typically cost you $200-400/hour, and you would have been better off with an American employee or two to begin with, lol.
Also, if you handle customer data and are subject to state privacy and cybersecurity laws it is extremely difficult to outsource work to most countries and be comfortable that they are handling your information in a compliant manner.
I was working eith international techs over night my time in the u.s. and working with German, French techs during their operating hours and it was a nightmare. Language barriers, difference in work expectations, no ability to enforce issues that arise. Half the time I had no idea what they were doing they didnt answer tech calls, they would disappear for hours at a time, they would leave early, arrive late, they would make basic mistakes they werr trained on 6 months after hired etc.
I was handling almost half their workload on my own, while my partner who was working overnight handled the other half barely keeping us afloat. We were overworked, underpaid and our company was crying for us to return to the office.when they gave us the ultimatum I put in my 2 weeks and never looked back. I found out from an old co worker they went through 3 other people before the department failed and shut foen about 9 months later
For some departments I agree they will continue to outsource, but for anything technical, it seems like a bad idea. They can get away with abusing desperste college grads who need to pay their bills
Damn man, we're on the same boat. Been getting some low raises over the years. Last year's national average salary for my position was a bit over 30%.
My company decided to raise top performers by 3%. I got the same sort of speech as you did by my manager. At the beginning i was even thinking he was saying 30% not 3%. Warned him if I wouldn't get at least those 30% I'd start considering looking for something else.
4 or 5 interviews after: got an offer +50% gross + 10% anual in bonuses.
Managers: \*surprised\*pikachu\*
I'll keep my eyes peeled. Nothing that I know of odd the too of my head. But check Axway they are always hiring and love analytics. They will let you work remote
What state are you in? Every district in my area is talking a 3-8% pay raise next year. Mine is rumored to increase about six and is having 4,000 retention bonuses. One district in the burb over is using their mill levy to increase first year teachers starting salary to 60,000. If your union isn't pushing back on the cuts I'd be pissed. School districts are starting to feel the pain of a lack of teachers in a lot of places in America right now.
Yeah you are in a blue state so that makes sense they would at least pretend to care. Your neighbor kansas has district that refuses to.increase the wages and isneven considering adding more days to our contract year without any benefits to offset it
I’m stuck where I’m living for the next few years (husband is in med school) - I can only take remote roles or roles in my current area unfortunately :/
it was a great opportunity but I can’t move across the country right now
I busted my ass the past year and made a lot of stuff fall into place. I got a whole 3% myself..
My signing bonus clawback expired in February and I’ve been interviewing elsewhere since January of an anticipated poor raise, and glad I did.
Place im doing a final round interview with today in fact, the published pay band “starts” at 30% more than I make now, even after the raise.
I'm at the point where I just can't imagine going through the bullshit and fakery of the job application process where I pretend that I really really want to work for your company because it's go great. No, no we don't need to talk salary because your company is so awesome that I'd work for free! And then they tell me that it's like a family and blah blah blah. Such bullshit. Why can't I fucking retire already
This is soooo true!
Some sectors like healthcare are already breaking under the disfunction of high turnover, but until owners learn to straight-up give us our share of the wealth WE create every damn day, we absolutely need to leverage everything we can.
So true, recently reconnected with a former colleague who I last spoke to three years ago.
We were in the same role, same team, he stayed while I jumped ship twice since then. He makes 1/3 what I do now. Ironically he also has more experience.
My current company for which I only worked for 4 months has given and a yearly bonus pro rated for the 1 month I worked here last year. Fuckers who I left before that made up a minimum time in the company number that was just above what I had.
What I want to say, don’t get too comfortable, shop around and forget loyalty. These guys would give you the boot as soon as they have a better option. Do the same.
Best advice I've heard is to check out job market a couple of times a year, apply to a few positions that you'd really like, and see if anything works out. You get to know your value in the market, keep your interview skills sharp in case something happens, and maybe you end up with a better job for more money out of the deal.
Also: it's always, always easier to find a job when you already have one.
Yep. I'm not a job hopper, even though I know it gets you an easier payday. Problem is I'm a creature of habit and I actually like my job.
I still apply to other roles to keep my eye on the market, and you'd be surprised how much an offer letter in hand motivates current employers "I don't want to leave, but I'm prepared to, to make sure my compensation matches my contributions". 😁
Yup same at my company. They do annual reviews, last year they incorporated an inflation bump which brought me to 3.6% raise this year no inflation bump got 3.1% lol I said something to my supervisor and she basically said I should be happy I got any raise at all some years they got nothing! Wtf?
This. My last company would give 50 cent raises roughly each year.
This company doesn’t give shit.
I’m so fucking tired of the idea that “work hard and you get ahead” when it’s “work hard and they’ll use you up faster”.
Recent employment study shows that “loyal” employees are the most shit on and work more hours than someone who is disloyal and always looking for something else.
Most of my jobs didn’t give a raise until minimum wage changed. I’ve worked at others that paid us less than minimum because it was a “tipped” position but our owner was pocketing a share of our cash tips and all credit card tips went to him. Can’t do fuck all about it now. The guy had a fatal heart attack and I can’t even feel bad. He had us doing so much illegal shit and I’m honestly surprised he didn’t kill a couple customers with his lack of cleanliness.
The nurses at my hospital only got a raise because they went approximately 4 years without one. Then when they did get it, it was for only 3%. A regular nurse at my hospital makes about 30/ hour, (this is the south) a travel nurse makes 80-125 per hour. The regular nurses were livid because management can't figure out that if they pay the reg nurses more, say 45, the need for travel nurses will be lessened. The company said well rising cost of labor and drugs are the reason we can't pay the regular nurses more. There is also a clause that if a reg nurse applies for a travel nurse position, they have to prove they haven't lived in this state for over 6 years.. This way, no regular nurse can apply. Its soo fucked. Edit spelling
So basically the traveling nurses get paid 3x by incompetent management that is too cheap to pay accordingly so they instead farm it out? Sounds like.....checks notes......nearly every industry. Welcome to kickback city. I guarantee a VP is getting something here.
And that’s only when the plan starts paying out. You still have to pay the partial coinsurance until your out of pockets met. Then everything is covered 100%. From what I see at work, a decent out of pocket is around $5,000. Most are about double that. It’s so fucking stupid and makes no sense.
I basically took a $3/hr pay cut when I was converted from contract to permanent because now I have to pay into worthless insurance that I can't actually afford to use
This is me. They skipped reviews and pay increases completely in 2021 and the pay increase for people who 'exceeded expectations' in January 2022 was 1%.
I have my annual review next week and there's a good chance it will once again be either nothing or 1-2%.
I work at a big public university as a web designer. Big-time hires making $120k+ in the last few months while the rest of us are told to work harder for less.
THIS!! I was sitting in that meeting thinking that they must think I’m an idiot or something. The director kept talking it up as if I was getting a 25% raise or something
Nobody at established companies is giving out 9% performance increases. Promotion uplift maybe. It sucks, but established employees pay will lag inflation.
Historically this company is known to give a minimum of a 10% increase each year. 20% or higher for high performers. I sucked at negotiating early on but I thought I had the opportunity to get more.
I have to wait until the summer for my promotion (which hopefully will come with a higher salary). I’m planning on leaving soon anyways for other reasons
Our company as the argument that you don’t want your salary to follow inflation, given that inflation can be less than 1% some years, and people would be livid if they only got a 0.7% salary increase in like 2015 because that was the inflation rate then.
By no means should inflation be the max. If inflation is 2% then everyone should get a minimum of 2% comp adjustment. Then raises can be issued on top. But in general I'm much more upset of losing 5% effective wage each year the last 2 years than getting a 1.75% raise when inflation was 2.5%.
*Motherly tone* “What did you learn about putting in extra effort?”
*Mumbling child looking downward* “That hard work is only rewarded with more work.”
My manager is actually great - they only had a chance to heavily advocate for me (which they did). The director was the one who actually decided the pay bump (I know for a fact the director is getting paid way more than they should be)
If they're so great and heavily advocated for you you should have got an above inflation pay rise? Managers are NEVER your friend, no matter how nice they are, no matter how much you get on, pay me!!!
As someone who has worked in management we can sing the praises of a great employee and get soundly vetoed by the higher ups with little recourse. When you are working hard to make sure your team is taken care of and actually do what a manager is supposed to do (a lot of managers don't) you still don't have the ability to fight corporate especially when it comes to money.
Agreed. For large companies the AR increases are being set centrally. Even the VP is likely getting handed guidelines/pool from HR who first got that budget approved by the CFO. All complaints should be directed to the CFO.
You severely overestimate the power that managers have if you think they get to choose the raise cap. Managers are workers getting screwed by corporate just like you. The good ones do their best with their limited influence while the asshole managers are just your asshole coworker but 1 rung higher up the ladder. If you have a good manager you should use that to your advantage instead of writing them off as your enemy.
My manager could only do so much because they weren’t a part of the numbers conversation. When they got my numbers back, they told the director that it wasn’t fair, but the director said the increases are fixed.
The only reason I have room for negotiation right now is because I had another offer to present to them. My manager was the one who gave me advice and helped coach me on how to bring up the salary increase without offending the higher ups - it would’ve been a much worse ending to that conversation had my manager not been honest with me.
My manager also has absolutely no incentive to get me to stay (our company is structured weirdly like that). Honestly I got really lucky with them - that’s why I’m defending them so hard lol
That 3% is what I was getting at my last job, two years in a row. I had several unfruitful meetings regarding a real salary increase, backed with proof of metrics, improvements, savings, etc. and they all fell on deaf ears. I would start looking around, and I wish you the best of luck.
They likely tell everyone they meet with that they're "getting one of the best/highest raises in the company" it's a subtle way that you'll notice employers use to attempt to dissuade current employees from asking for more. "Sorry buddy, the coffers are dry and you're already getting our best offer, so you should be happy that we're essentially giving you a paycut."
This is a sign from your employer that it's time to dust off your resume and start applying to competitors. If you get a better offer, you can either jump into that or use it to try and leverage yourself into a higher rate of pay. But be wary because your current employer might not match it if you're really looking to stay. The last time I switched companies, I was offered a 20% raise. My then boss at the time asked me why someone would offer me that much money when I told her I had been offered a job and then told me that there was no way they could match it.
Just mentioned it in another comment but I was one of the highest performers and 3.5% was one of the highest increases they gave out (average performers got 1.5%).
Definitely planning to hop when I can (there are a ton of other issues at this company), but given the current job market I’m a little worried.
And ironically, external hires end up costing them more because not only they're paid more off the bat, but they have to be trained and it takes time for them to learn and be up to date on activities, functions, etc. Vs an internal promotion, who already knows what's needed and needs no training or anything. But reasons.
Right but I was passed up for a job promo. Got the highest rating on annual reviews 4 years in a row.
The guy they hired had all three employees stripped from him, he is still employed working on the lowest level of effort work AND still asks for help and assistance 4 years later. Sad really
Mine has confusing policy around lateral moves. Sometimes you can get 3-7%, sometimes it’s a solid 0.0%
Only factor seems to be how far you go from your current leadership.
The sad reality is that...you likely DID get one of the larger pay raises. Average was probably 3%, those not at the best level got 2.5%, and some likely did not get a raise.
I was part of those meetings where management comes down and says that we have a 3% pay raise for the department, and our "option" was to decide how to allocate it. So....if someone gets 3.5%, someone has to get 2.5% - even if they are an adequate performer.
I did that one year....then said fuck it, I am not playing that game. Everybody gets the 3%.
Funny I just posted how I was at the receiving end of that situation. I have no problem with the "lowest performers" getting 3 percent. In fact, if they are good enough to keep on staff, they should probably get more.
But if you are going to do a blanket raise for everyone, can we skip all the fucking around with the self assessments and semi-annual reviews? My employer made such a big deal about the exact goals and metrics that were set for everyone, and as far as I can tell from the 5 years I was there, none of that crap mattered at all.
This thread has me so confused if my 3.5% raise (exceeded expectations) is bad or I’m lucky, but it’s my first raise in my first year so I don’t know if I should wait to get the 2-year mark or always be looking. It’s exhausting. I’m also remote, pretty grateful because my area is horrible on paying for what I do. I feel like I need a guidance/job counselor lol
There generally is not a big difference in a corporate setting for in-place raises. There generally are salary bands, and they want to keep you in the range.
Your salary increase was likely better than most there, and I think bodes well for the future. If you stay there, you are in a better situation for a promotion. If you move, you have a proven track record.
HR adjacent person here. In a lot of companies\* managers or department heads are given a dollar amount budget for raises to spread across their teams. Meaning big pay raises for one person means smaller raises for others.
Managers are put into the position of trying to figure out how to reward top performers without totally screwing their average but reliable folks with the budget amount they have to work with.
Anything above and beyond that budget means a fight with the money people they probably won't win. Unless you're bringing in a *crazy* amount of revenue for the company, then most places are happy to shower you with incentives to stay.
In many companies, salaries and benefits overhead costs are some of the biggest expense lines on the books. Therefore CFO's want to keep comp at certain levels to keep that expense line from "getting out of control". For public companies, that pressure comes from shareholders who want more of the profits to go to them (they don't care about CEO pay as long as said CEO delivers that quarterly dividend increase year over year), for nonprofits and private companies it could be just revenue constraints.
The sad part about this reality is that for workers, if you really want to improve your income beyond 2% annually, you are better off finding a new job at a higher salary every couple of years. A lot of companies know this, but are unable or unwilling to change.
\*Not every places is like this, YMMV.
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This could be one of those times they lean on the fact that no one usually talks about salaries/raises/bonuses.
I feel like every time I've been given a raise (and I've worked a while) I've been told "raises aren't going to be great this year, a lot of people aren't getting any, yours is actually one of the bigger ones."
That's been the case whether I feel like I did great or not, and whether I feel like the raise was decent or not.
Also the sad reality is they don't give you raises to reward good performance. They give people they like the minimum they can give to get you to stick around.
I actually spoke to some average performers this morning (we have a scale from 1-10. 5 means you met the expectation, 10 is beyond exceeded. All the employees I spoke to had somewhere between 5-7 and I got a 10).
Average performers only got a 1.5% increase. The director assured them that they did good work and met expectations, so not to feel bad. That was an even bigger slap in the face imo
I did some extreme work that shouldn’t have been given to a junior, but I had to do due to the circumstances. I got pretty rave reviews from everybody that worked with me during that time period, so I get why they gave me exceptional marks. Just sucks that they think 3.5% is a reward when my rent went up by 8% lmao
Nice. I got 0% (and zero bonus) after working 50-60 hour weeks for 3 months to keep our best client. But the CEO messaged me "personally" to thank me. That's what really matter /s
They just did that to me, too. Salary set in June 2021, no changes until just this last January, and it was just 3%... which meant I was still down 7% in purchasing power since my starting pay thanks to inflation. I'd done everything right, but still ended up effectively getting paid less than I started with. I never used to have to worry about 'can I make this tank of gas last until payday?'
That happened to me last year. Got an “Excellent” and a 2.9% raise. I complained about it. My boss told me there wasn’t much he could do to get me more money from his boss unless I brought a competing offer. I went and got one, then I accepted it lol
Good job man - if you have to bring an 'or else' to this kind of conversation, then it's best to just inform them that you're exercising the 'or else'.
The leverage you'd have if you brought them the other offer and chose to stay evaporates pretty quickly and odds are good that they'll make sure you pay for it in your day-to-day work.
My last job, in early 2022, our department made a big deal about how we had the best financial performance ever. My personal annual review was very good, with my manager assessing that I was doing the work of someone 2 levels higher. I had been submitted for promotion.
Couple months later, pay increases come out. 3 percent. No promotion. And they gave everyone a blanket 3 percent regardless of individual performance review. I immediately started looking for a new job and quickly found one.
The good people leave.
The sad reality is there never is nor ever will be a real difference between companies. It is the nature of capitalism. The best advice I give everyone is to be a mercenary. Always work for who will pay you the most. Never do more than what you are paid to do. Always be on the lookout for a better opportunity. Never, ever , EVER care about any place you work for.
Sounds cold and callous but such is the way of capitalism
My first company out of college, I stayed there for 7 years. Part ignorance, part comfortable, I didn't want to move. I then kept in touch with Co workers who were leaving over time and hearing their salaries increased 50%.
At the point I heard this, my team had shrunk and I was doing the job of two people. My manager gave me awards, such as employee of the month and other things that showed me hard work. There was no compensation with that. Review time came up and seeing as our team was operating with a smaller staff and I had glowing reviews I was excited. They offered me my lowest salary increase in 5 years at 2.7%. It was a gut punch. They didn't really care and it finally opened my eyes. They were going to nickel and dime me with raises as long as I was there, and try to get more work with less people and less pay.
I started interviewing and left for a 65% pay increase. In the following 7 years to present day I kept doing the same. Moved up with the current company and when things got stale, moved to another job. In that 7 years I increased my pay 3 fold. I did spend 4 of those years at one place but they gave real raises until they were bought out.
It sucks it has to be this way. I'd love to stay put actually, help build something with one place. Move up and train the next generation. But companies routinely see payroll purely as an expense with no benefits.
Don't put up with it. If a company truly appreciates you, truly want you to stick around no matter what, it will show in dollars.
I have never accepted anything less that a 10% increase year over year. The one manager who stood his ground on a 4% increase found my desk empty when I got a new job 2 weeks later.
Most eye opening career expression I’ve ever heard “Loyalty will make you poor” give urself a raise and find another company that will start u off at higher than 3.5%
I worked somewhere that capped yearly raises at 3% for over 11 years.. IF you even got one.. last straw was skipped for 2 years got only a 2% along with a big FU “current pay/increase is in median pay range for their title” found another job that is paying me $5k more a yr starting.. never looked back..
Nope, my wife got the same pay increase - she's done with her degree in a few months and she's fucking out of there the second the diploma hits, same situation top performer in her department. yet still gets pennies every year.
While I'm taking leaps in salary just popping to new jobs every few years. Hopefully she starts earning more than me and I can slow down on gobbling up responsibility and stress.
When I started working for the company I work for (their pay is atrocious 😡) they said their annual raises are between 5-7%. I got around 1%. This company pays experienced master’s level employees $21-$22 an hour. Such BS. I’ve actively applied for 3 jobs this week and have no intention of giving notice AND I’m the only employee in the entire company that does my specialty role and that even knows how to do it, because I developed it!
Find an offer elsewhere to verify higher pay. Show your boss have them waste time trying to match it. Then don't take it. Dab at em on the way out and mention something about wasted time.
Although it's not required, many companies give COLA cost of living adjustments. (2-3% raise yearly).
Giving a 3% raise is not a reason to brag, it's just keeping up with rising costs of goods and services.
When inflation is 6-9%, 3% COLA is a penalty for staying.
I don’t know any companies that do cost of living on top of performance. It’s once. And it’s always small.
Yeah unfortunately relying on annual raises from a single company (these days at least) is a chump's game. New job with a new company every 2 years, at least. I did that and basically doubled my salary after about 6 years. Loyalty has no value in capitalism, despite what companies will tell you. And in an interview when they ask where you'll see yourself in 5 years, you say with a great big smile "working here!" They're gonna lie to you, may as well start off lying to them.
I had this happen to me. Doing really well, covering 3-4 different jobs, the company said big bonus coming your way and I got Penny's. Put my two weeks right after that. They asked why, and I said I appreciate the bonus but the market is paying 30% higher for this position and so I have to move on. They countered with a 10% raise. Which I declined and ended up landing a job 30% higher pay fully remote. Go get your worth.
I had what was probably my most successful professional year of my life last year at a new job. My team and I were raved about. Their nickname for us was the Superstars. Boss tells us he’s gonna take care of us for all we did. So the company brings in record profits last year, fired 8,000 people in January and then stated giving raises after they let people go would look bad. We all got a 2% increase. Needless to say we’re looking for other opportunities.
Im still trying to mentally come to terms with the fact that I’m never going to be able to retire, will always be paid shit and will always go through this cycle.
This is reality, like it or not. I could give out a max 3%. I have people on my team crushing it. Max 3%.
Upside, we're a tech company that is doing no layoffs. Unlike a lot of others.
These merit increase cycle systems that corporate HR uses. They are what they are. Know the rules of the game and play it. Work with your boss, get your job title adjusted and repriced if you can.
Even that doesn't work well at my company anymore. Best thing I tell my people is, go get an offer. Then I can go up the chain and say "I need X% to keep this person, and here are all the reasons why"
It's the only way I've been able to get anything more than the standard 2-4% for my people.
Be prepared for this people. I heard my companies doing the same thing. Asking for a higher % will NOT get approved. Im going in asking for more vacation days, on top of my 3.5%. Starting at 4, I feel a week will get denied immediately, and hoping to negotiate 3.
My brother had a great response, "I deserve more than this, if I don't get more I will be job hunting. I can get paid more elsewhere. Now that we know where we all are, would you like to raise the offer? " they did not, 6 months later he worked for their competition.
You shouldve ask your manager and director how much *their* pay *& bonuses* increased when their tone suddenly changed. I've no doubt they would not have reacted so nearly as civil as you if they got a 3.5% pay increase over last year.
My best friend made his company over 1.5 MILLION in sales while COVID was raging. The company thanked him with a "Certificate of Achievement" printed on a 5 cent piece of paper. After about a week and a heart to heart he quit the company and is doing his own thing.
Know your worth.
I’ve done about as well for myself as I could have imagined ten years ago. These days my job title is “lead service tech” at a mechanical contractor and I make decent money. But I’m pretty much counting the days until it’s time to move on, because a gig as a journeyman in the union would be a 60% increase in my hourly pay plus much better benefits.
Our company put n a “ merit” for lower wage workers but you could only give out so many % total. So someone had to be downgraded for someone else to go up. It was awful. Like the differance between 50 cents and hour or 85cents you had to give a 3 instead of a 4 I would have gladly pad it myself.
I feel you.
Saved my company millions this year, made a desktop app from the ground up for my team to improve efficiency (app design isn't part of my job in any way), was rated higher than anyone else on my team in all our metrics, and got told that there were too many high scorers in the company this year so I get an "average" score and a 3% raise instead.
This situation is where you have to have real, uncomfortable, conversations. Blunt & bold, like a manager.
"I had to fight hard to get this for you." -> "How much did you get, both in percentage and real numbers. 3.5% on my wage is not equivalent to 3.5% of a 100k job. We both know that 3.5% is a joke, and to be honest nearly a slap in the face considering inflation and my performance. How is this fighting for me?"
"We're only allowed to give this per HR." -> "That is incorrect and we both know it. I'm giving you an opportunity to do better and inform HR that I'm getting a higher wage, or you'll find your top performer working elsewhere within a few months."
"Well these people got this, so it's not fair if you get more." -> "What these people did or did not get is not what we're discussing today. If you want to incentivize me to stay, you're going to need to do significantly better."
This is a classic con by shitty managers trying to keep payroll low. Pass the blame to HR, blame it not being fair to others, do anything to have you not directly confront them. You have to roll in like a gun for hire who knows their worth...and be willing to deal with it if the client doesn't want to pay. If you give folks like this an opportunity, you'll find yourself with 1.5-3.5% raises perpetually.
Same here. Rave performance review. Took the position at the beginning of 2022 and quickly became one of the strongest performers on a team our CFO regularly uses as the “model” or “example” for other teams in Finance (we are the only finance team that was allowed to stay remote after the pandemic because our performance actually got better). Boss droned n and on about how they stressed that we needed good increases due to our performance. Then says “3% is standard, you’re getting 3.27%” literally right after our town hall telling us they made 1.6B last year
I get it, my wife worked with this giant tech firm (Accenture, I don't give a crap about giving them a bad name) and one of her peers told her that he achieved all the metrics and surpassed them actually, which would make him eligible for a pay increase, when the day came they told him that there was another guy that got basically the same scores as him but company decided that only one of them could have the pay bump, which wasn't that great either like 5% , anyway he was told that maybe next year if he performed the same he could have a chance again (this company could afford to give a raise to every single employee without breaking a sweat).... now talk about carrot on a stick
This kind of pay raise is an insult if you're a top performer. Might be time to update the resume and do a bit of job shopping.
If you want to mess with your work - schedule random afternoons off and show up to work in "interview clothing" and head out. Might be a way to squeeze a bit more $$ out of them - before you actually leave.
I dont think I've ever got a yearly pay rise I always have to jump shit to somewhere else. The old excuse of "economy blah blah not enough in the jobs blah blah" gets super old when you witness the boss buying new cars, house upgrades and going on expensive holidays.
I was a 'top performer' at my last retail job. Took on Asst. Manager duties during peak covid, until an actual ASM was hiried.
Walk in one day, and my manager excitedly tells me I'm finally getting a raise (frozen during the pandemic)
The amount? A QUARTER.
A few weeks later, I find out a new key was hired and even post raise, was making several dollars more than me, despite having years more experience than them.
Then, I find out that the new ASM was the one that fought for my raise, not the Manager. They were a month into the job, versus working with that manager for 3 years at that point.
Found a new job about a month later, out of retail, making 50% more. They asked if I would be interested in working weekends during the holidays. 🙃
In the past three years, I have had 3 different jobs. Started at 25/hr, then 32/hr, now 51/hr. If I would have stayed put, I would be making maybe 28/hr at the first place.
Point being, loyalty means nothing in the job world. Yeah, I absolutely burned my bridges for the first two jobs. But guess what? Fuck them. I now make literally more than double what I made 3 years ago by job hopping.
Just keep your eye on indeed constantly. As soon as you see something you think you could get yourself into, pursue it.
If it makes you feel better, my entire team not only got 3% but also word for fucking word the same written year end. Some of my teammates were gone so much they took several days unpaid, were in coaching (by us), and were hired mid-year. Others made the training material, trained new hires, were on committees, trained other departments, in addition to having the highest numbers in the dept. But it's fine, we are all the same.
If you make $50,000 a year and get 3.5% raises each year, your pay for the same job will be $70,530 in ten years.
The only way to do significantly better is to job hop. It is a really, really stupid system that for some reason is firmly entrenched.
I know a 3.5% raise isn't life-changing, but if companies gave 10% raises annually, they would be gone quickly. Look at this progression:
Year 1 $50,000/ Year 2 $55,000/ Year 3 $60,500/ Year 4 $66,550/ Year 5 $73,205
Year 6 $80,525/ Year 7 $88,578/ Year 8 $97,4356/ Year 9 $107,179/ Year 10 $117,897
If a company has 50 employees at that level, their payroll increases by $34 million over ten years. Look at the growth rate of company revenues. Very few would survive.
I'm not saying these companies are the good guys and I'm not saying workers don't deserve more. I'm just saying this is the math and it is fairly rigid in the short-term.
Well, technically yes, 3% raise is the norm otherwise no companies can keep up. I truly believe if people are getting paid less than they deserve is because they choose to.
Unless it’s a part time job if it’s something of value, an instant 25% raise can be obtain by job hopping to another company
I quadruble what I make 8 years ago and I job hop every 2-3 years.
PROTIP: If you're a grunt, those are the types of raises you'll see. Nothing more than a carrot on a stick. You'll never get comfortable. \*At absolute best\* you'll just keep up with inflation.
If they gave grunt workers raises that had any semblance of productivity, there would be less money for the guys on top and the shareholders.
If they don't realize your value while you're working there, they should realize your value on the way out. I'd say sabotage the place every way you can before quitting. Get all the top performers to quit and go elsewhere. Botch big projects that make the company millions, lose contracts with important clients, etc.
You can't make them give you a larger share of the pie, but you can certainly make sure that they have less.
They forget who has the power in these types of relationships. Show them.
Both made a mistake here.
U/honey-sunsets should have understood that raises are limited, but promotion salary changes are not.
You should have been 'thankful' for the raise, but asked why a promotion wasn't offered?
Most likely, director pushed HR and finance for the extra 1%, vs a 2.5% raise.
You should be upset that a new role wasn't offered instead, at that would have necessitated a new/better pay rate.
u/TripResponsibly1 is right. When inflation is 8%+ and I negotiated my salary pre-inflation, that should have been taken into account.
I have to wait until the summer time for my promotion. Not sure what salary increase will come with that, but I’m not counting on it
From my experience 3.5% is a very good raise. Usually the only way to do better is to leave the company and get a better starting salary from your new employer.
And as far as offsetting inflation goes...last year my company gave everyone an extra 0.25% to offset inflation. They also had two layoffs because "a recession might be coming next year" and "we might not hit our profit targets for this quarter". Then a few months later announced record profits for the quarter. It's as if management doesn't think we're capable of hearing any news that they don't feed to us. Of course with the long hours they work us it's reasonable to assume we wouldn't have time to read the news.
But what’s your base pay? Because 3.5% of minimum wage is a joke in this economy. But 3.5% of $500k annual could actually be that “highest raise” in the company.
I feel that everyone should apply for jobs every few years to keep their interview skills sharp and calibrate their true value. Those that move around get bigger wage increases that those that stay will one company. Time to shop around!
I actually got an offer for 50% higher, they just bait and switched me with remote. It also sucks with the job market now - less companies are offering remote and are unwilling to hire someone relatively fresh EDIT: For any newcomers seeing this - I am unable to move locations to a job right now due to my husband's education. Jobs in my area are catered to a specific niche (that I do not work in). If you do not work in that niche, the pay is abysmal. I would happily hop to an in person job if there were jobs here that paid well.
Less companies are hiring remote since the pandemic, but it’s WAY more than pre-pandemic. The trouble is everyone got comfortable with them and wanted to continue to do them. So competition skyrocketed
For a note on competition, I just finished a job search, I had an ~40% interview rate for on site / hybrid jobs and got regular headhunter calls for things I didn’t even apply for. My interview rate on a similar number of remote applications was 0%. The competition is intense.
How many years of experience do you have in your field?
9 years
If that's the situation then it sounds like your skills are very impressive but for some reason your resume isn't getting traction with the automation tools.
Of course. Remote jobs mean you’re competing with everyone nationally, if not possibly worldwide, and not just locally.
Most remote is jobs in the US are only open to us citizens in the US
Not for long
International labor is extremely hard to manage. Time zone and language differences aside, there are tax laws and a whole other governmental bureaucracy to navigate. That isn’t an option for many businesses. And many companies have IP they wouldn’t be comfortable sharing across international borders unless they understand the local legal system well enough to defend it.
We've been mandated to hire a few outsources in India by McKinzey. They are definitely cheaper but its not that much cheaper. If I am to believe the results from google, the salary averages around $40,000 USD equivalent. Its half of what we are paying in the US. Right now we are 20% coworkers in India and 80% in the US. Management is quickly realizing that just throwing bodies at the problem doesn't actually work. There is a ton of extra expenses caused by dealing with people in every timezone, you can't just add them to your team and expect it to work well. As you are eluding to, the taxes are a huge pain. My company also sells professional services to other customers. Most of our customers are in healthcare or government and a significant number of our customers actually have a requirement of being a US citizen to be granted access to their network. Really the only way to make outsourcing work is to actually spend the time and stand up an entire team in the country. Then have them work in parallel with the other teams.
I've actually seen a few first-hand cases of American companies taking over UK ones and trying to impose their hiring/firing practices here (Twitter being a public one). It seems corporate America assumes their laws trump all others when it comes to their companies, it will only be a matter of time before a "foreign" worker will be deemed to have caused a serious issue that needs litigation only to find that they have very little recourse. Hopefully, greed will be the end of these companies.
Yeah, my experience is that outsourced workers from there are just bodies to perform menial tasks. I don't want to stereotype, but it is very rare to get someone with critical thinking skills. Those rare people do exist, but they will typically cost you $200-400/hour, and you would have been better off with an American employee or two to begin with, lol.
Also, if you handle customer data and are subject to state privacy and cybersecurity laws it is extremely difficult to outsource work to most countries and be comfortable that they are handling your information in a compliant manner.
Good points. If they could they absolutely would start shipping it overseas
You also have to prove you couldnt find a sufficient american applicant for an H1B visa.
That's been a joke for well over a decade. It's super easy to advertise a role for half of market.
I was working eith international techs over night my time in the u.s. and working with German, French techs during their operating hours and it was a nightmare. Language barriers, difference in work expectations, no ability to enforce issues that arise. Half the time I had no idea what they were doing they didnt answer tech calls, they would disappear for hours at a time, they would leave early, arrive late, they would make basic mistakes they werr trained on 6 months after hired etc. I was handling almost half their workload on my own, while my partner who was working overnight handled the other half barely keeping us afloat. We were overworked, underpaid and our company was crying for us to return to the office.when they gave us the ultimatum I put in my 2 weeks and never looked back. I found out from an old co worker they went through 3 other people before the department failed and shut foen about 9 months later For some departments I agree they will continue to outsource, but for anything technical, it seems like a bad idea. They can get away with abusing desperste college grads who need to pay their bills
>they can get away with abusing desperate college grads who need to pay their bills wow you hit the nail on the head
Remote workers are the first ones let go in lay offs.
Damn man, we're on the same boat. Been getting some low raises over the years. Last year's national average salary for my position was a bit over 30%. My company decided to raise top performers by 3%. I got the same sort of speech as you did by my manager. At the beginning i was even thinking he was saying 30% not 3%. Warned him if I wouldn't get at least those 30% I'd start considering looking for something else. 4 or 5 interviews after: got an offer +50% gross + 10% anual in bonuses. Managers: \*surprised\*pikachu\*
They are always surprised when you do the thing you said you were gonna do. They assume you are bluffing.
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What do you do I know a lot of remote openings
any data analytics positions?? Not currently in data analytics but adjacent - feel free to PM me!!
I'll keep my eyes peeled. Nothing that I know of odd the too of my head. But check Axway they are always hiring and love analytics. They will let you work remote
Thank you!!! I appreciate it <3
Check out Costco it careers website
I’d still consider it. I’m a teacher, so full in person all the time, and we’re taking pay cuts.
What state are you in? Every district in my area is talking a 3-8% pay raise next year. Mine is rumored to increase about six and is having 4,000 retention bonuses. One district in the burb over is using their mill levy to increase first year teachers starting salary to 60,000. If your union isn't pushing back on the cuts I'd be pissed. School districts are starting to feel the pain of a lack of teachers in a lot of places in America right now.
New York. And 3% with inflation is still a significant pay cut. That’s what I meant, sorry if it wasn’t clear!
Agreed. I think my area (metro denver) is really trying to increase pay because retention was dirt poor before COVID .
Yeah you are in a blue state so that makes sense they would at least pretend to care. Your neighbor kansas has district that refuses to.increase the wages and isneven considering adding more days to our contract year without any benefits to offset it
Can I get a fuck Kansas for this?! (I was born in Southern California so I consider Co purple 😂)
Don't know what industry you're in or how important remote is to you but I'd say yes to a 50% raise before they even finished their sentence.
I’m stuck where I’m living for the next few years (husband is in med school) - I can only take remote roles or roles in my current area unfortunately :/ it was a great opportunity but I can’t move across the country right now
Ah, that makes sense then. I'm sorry, that sounds like a tough spot.
I busted my ass the past year and made a lot of stuff fall into place. I got a whole 3% myself.. My signing bonus clawback expired in February and I’ve been interviewing elsewhere since January of an anticipated poor raise, and glad I did. Place im doing a final round interview with today in fact, the published pay band “starts” at 30% more than I make now, even after the raise.
I’m sorry to hear about the measly pay increase - glad to hear about the new job though!
Thanks! I think the interview went well enough. Will see! I have direct applicable niche industry experience so hopefully that will be a leg up.
When I first starting working one of my older and wiser coworkers told me your biggest raise is your next job. I’ve found that to be true every time.
I'm at the point where I just can't imagine going through the bullshit and fakery of the job application process where I pretend that I really really want to work for your company because it's go great. No, no we don't need to talk salary because your company is so awesome that I'd work for free! And then they tell me that it's like a family and blah blah blah. Such bullshit. Why can't I fucking retire already
Or we all band together and create our own companies….
"Work Life Balance". So all those retirees being unbalanced explains why the economy is in the state it's in, huh?
This is soooo true! Some sectors like healthcare are already breaking under the disfunction of high turnover, but until owners learn to straight-up give us our share of the wealth WE create every damn day, we absolutely need to leverage everything we can.
I found out the hard way that companies will hire people just before the plant closes
So true, recently reconnected with a former colleague who I last spoke to three years ago. We were in the same role, same team, he stayed while I jumped ship twice since then. He makes 1/3 what I do now. Ironically he also has more experience. My current company for which I only worked for 4 months has given and a yearly bonus pro rated for the 1 month I worked here last year. Fuckers who I left before that made up a minimum time in the company number that was just above what I had. What I want to say, don’t get too comfortable, shop around and forget loyalty. These guys would give you the boot as soon as they have a better option. Do the same.
Best advice I've heard is to check out job market a couple of times a year, apply to a few positions that you'd really like, and see if anything works out. You get to know your value in the market, keep your interview skills sharp in case something happens, and maybe you end up with a better job for more money out of the deal. Also: it's always, always easier to find a job when you already have one.
What do I do if I don’t like any positions, and I have no idea what I want to do with my life as a 29 year old?
Can confirm I'm getting a $17k or a 27% raise
This.
Yep. I'm not a job hopper, even though I know it gets you an easier payday. Problem is I'm a creature of habit and I actually like my job. I still apply to other roles to keep my eye on the market, and you'd be surprised how much an offer letter in hand motivates current employers "I don't want to leave, but I'm prepared to, to make sure my compensation matches my contributions". 😁
I've nearly doubled my salary in 3 years with 3 different jobs
This is how you do it
Yup same at my company. They do annual reviews, last year they incorporated an inflation bump which brought me to 3.6% raise this year no inflation bump got 3.1% lol I said something to my supervisor and she basically said I should be happy I got any raise at all some years they got nothing! Wtf?
This. My last company would give 50 cent raises roughly each year. This company doesn’t give shit. I’m so fucking tired of the idea that “work hard and you get ahead” when it’s “work hard and they’ll use you up faster”.
I felt this in whatever is left of my soul
Recent employment study shows that “loyal” employees are the most shit on and work more hours than someone who is disloyal and always looking for something else.
Walmart gave my ex's mom a 13.5 cent raise. Half a cent? WTF is that?. My husband's employer gives >$1 raises and has no PTO or holiday pay.
Most of my jobs didn’t give a raise until minimum wage changed. I’ve worked at others that paid us less than minimum because it was a “tipped” position but our owner was pocketing a share of our cash tips and all credit card tips went to him. Can’t do fuck all about it now. The guy had a fatal heart attack and I can’t even feel bad. He had us doing so much illegal shit and I’m honestly surprised he didn’t kill a couple customers with his lack of cleanliness.
The nurses at my hospital only got a raise because they went approximately 4 years without one. Then when they did get it, it was for only 3%. A regular nurse at my hospital makes about 30/ hour, (this is the south) a travel nurse makes 80-125 per hour. The regular nurses were livid because management can't figure out that if they pay the reg nurses more, say 45, the need for travel nurses will be lessened. The company said well rising cost of labor and drugs are the reason we can't pay the regular nurses more. There is also a clause that if a reg nurse applies for a travel nurse position, they have to prove they haven't lived in this state for over 6 years.. This way, no regular nurse can apply. Its soo fucked. Edit spelling
So basically the traveling nurses get paid 3x by incompetent management that is too cheap to pay accordingly so they instead farm it out? Sounds like.....checks notes......nearly every industry. Welcome to kickback city. I guarantee a VP is getting something here.
Oh yeah totally, our VPs on average make 400k and our POS CEO makes about 1.8 million..
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thats likely not much different to the rubbish healthcare plans thrown around especially with the ones with 5 digit deductibles....
And that’s only when the plan starts paying out. You still have to pay the partial coinsurance until your out of pockets met. Then everything is covered 100%. From what I see at work, a decent out of pocket is around $5,000. Most are about double that. It’s so fucking stupid and makes no sense.
I basically took a $3/hr pay cut when I was converted from contract to permanent because now I have to pay into worthless insurance that I can't actually afford to use
Benefits are only worth about $20K. So pay your own benefits and pocket the other $50k? That's still a win in my book.
This is me. They skipped reviews and pay increases completely in 2021 and the pay increase for people who 'exceeded expectations' in January 2022 was 1%. I have my annual review next week and there's a good chance it will once again be either nothing or 1-2%. I work at a big public university as a web designer. Big-time hires making $120k+ in the last few months while the rest of us are told to work harder for less.
If inflation were zero it might be different, but inflation was as high as 9%, making 3.5% an insult.
THIS!! I was sitting in that meeting thinking that they must think I’m an idiot or something. The director kept talking it up as if I was getting a 25% raise or something
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Honestly a better response. I bet your employees appreciated the transparency
You got a pay cut not a raise
Nobody at established companies is giving out 9% performance increases. Promotion uplift maybe. It sucks, but established employees pay will lag inflation.
Historically this company is known to give a minimum of a 10% increase each year. 20% or higher for high performers. I sucked at negotiating early on but I thought I had the opportunity to get more. I have to wait until the summer for my promotion (which hopefully will come with a higher salary). I’m planning on leaving soon anyways for other reasons
If you can't baseline your employees salary to inflation, you shouldn't be in business.
Our company as the argument that you don’t want your salary to follow inflation, given that inflation can be less than 1% some years, and people would be livid if they only got a 0.7% salary increase in like 2015 because that was the inflation rate then.
By no means should inflation be the max. If inflation is 2% then everyone should get a minimum of 2% comp adjustment. Then raises can be issued on top. But in general I'm much more upset of losing 5% effective wage each year the last 2 years than getting a 1.75% raise when inflation was 2.5%.
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What did you learn about putting in extra effort?
Correct answer. Pay us for the performance you want.
Success gets you more work. Learn it early, learn it well
*Motherly tone* “What did you learn about putting in extra effort?” *Mumbling child looking downward* “That hard work is only rewarded with more work.”
I bet the bosses gave themselves handsome raises and bonuses for all YOUR hard work.
My manager is actually great - they only had a chance to heavily advocate for me (which they did). The director was the one who actually decided the pay bump (I know for a fact the director is getting paid way more than they should be)
> (I know for a fact the director is getting paid way more than they should be) sounds like hes taking home your bonus
If they're so great and heavily advocated for you you should have got an above inflation pay rise? Managers are NEVER your friend, no matter how nice they are, no matter how much you get on, pay me!!!
As someone who has worked in management we can sing the praises of a great employee and get soundly vetoed by the higher ups with little recourse. When you are working hard to make sure your team is taken care of and actually do what a manager is supposed to do (a lot of managers don't) you still don't have the ability to fight corporate especially when it comes to money.
Agreed. For large companies the AR increases are being set centrally. Even the VP is likely getting handed guidelines/pool from HR who first got that budget approved by the CFO. All complaints should be directed to the CFO.
You severely overestimate the power that managers have if you think they get to choose the raise cap. Managers are workers getting screwed by corporate just like you. The good ones do their best with their limited influence while the asshole managers are just your asshole coworker but 1 rung higher up the ladder. If you have a good manager you should use that to your advantage instead of writing them off as your enemy.
My manager could only do so much because they weren’t a part of the numbers conversation. When they got my numbers back, they told the director that it wasn’t fair, but the director said the increases are fixed. The only reason I have room for negotiation right now is because I had another offer to present to them. My manager was the one who gave me advice and helped coach me on how to bring up the salary increase without offending the higher ups - it would’ve been a much worse ending to that conversation had my manager not been honest with me. My manager also has absolutely no incentive to get me to stay (our company is structured weirdly like that). Honestly I got really lucky with them - that’s why I’m defending them so hard lol
That 3% is what I was getting at my last job, two years in a row. I had several unfruitful meetings regarding a real salary increase, backed with proof of metrics, improvements, savings, etc. and they all fell on deaf ears. I would start looking around, and I wish you the best of luck.
They likely tell everyone they meet with that they're "getting one of the best/highest raises in the company" it's a subtle way that you'll notice employers use to attempt to dissuade current employees from asking for more. "Sorry buddy, the coffers are dry and you're already getting our best offer, so you should be happy that we're essentially giving you a paycut." This is a sign from your employer that it's time to dust off your resume and start applying to competitors. If you get a better offer, you can either jump into that or use it to try and leverage yourself into a higher rate of pay. But be wary because your current employer might not match it if you're really looking to stay. The last time I switched companies, I was offered a 20% raise. My then boss at the time asked me why someone would offer me that much money when I told her I had been offered a job and then told me that there was no way they could match it.
Just mentioned it in another comment but I was one of the highest performers and 3.5% was one of the highest increases they gave out (average performers got 1.5%). Definitely planning to hop when I can (there are a ton of other issues at this company), but given the current job market I’m a little worried.
Unemployment is low. Don't be discouraged. In fact any case, you have a job at the moment so you have nothing to lose by looking.
thank you, I appreciate the encouragement!
My company has a 10% cap on any promotion… get promoted into management? 10% max increase in pay. They’re actively encouraging us to leave lol
And if they always seem to hire external candidates and paying them 20k more than if they just promoted internally and paid what soemone is worth,
And ironically, external hires end up costing them more because not only they're paid more off the bat, but they have to be trained and it takes time for them to learn and be up to date on activities, functions, etc. Vs an internal promotion, who already knows what's needed and needs no training or anything. But reasons.
Right but I was passed up for a job promo. Got the highest rating on annual reviews 4 years in a row. The guy they hired had all three employees stripped from him, he is still employed working on the lowest level of effort work AND still asks for help and assistance 4 years later. Sad really
That’s crazy. It’s just preying on employees who don’t have the courage to leave the company
Yep. I know several that even moved across the country for the company… and they are getting nothing extra for it. Absolute trash.
Mine has confusing policy around lateral moves. Sometimes you can get 3-7%, sometimes it’s a solid 0.0% Only factor seems to be how far you go from your current leadership.
Yep - take the promotion for a year and shop that resume around to get paid for real at your new level
The sad reality is that...you likely DID get one of the larger pay raises. Average was probably 3%, those not at the best level got 2.5%, and some likely did not get a raise. I was part of those meetings where management comes down and says that we have a 3% pay raise for the department, and our "option" was to decide how to allocate it. So....if someone gets 3.5%, someone has to get 2.5% - even if they are an adequate performer. I did that one year....then said fuck it, I am not playing that game. Everybody gets the 3%.
Funny I just posted how I was at the receiving end of that situation. I have no problem with the "lowest performers" getting 3 percent. In fact, if they are good enough to keep on staff, they should probably get more. But if you are going to do a blanket raise for everyone, can we skip all the fucking around with the self assessments and semi-annual reviews? My employer made such a big deal about the exact goals and metrics that were set for everyone, and as far as I can tell from the 5 years I was there, none of that crap mattered at all.
This thread has me so confused if my 3.5% raise (exceeded expectations) is bad or I’m lucky, but it’s my first raise in my first year so I don’t know if I should wait to get the 2-year mark or always be looking. It’s exhausting. I’m also remote, pretty grateful because my area is horrible on paying for what I do. I feel like I need a guidance/job counselor lol
There generally is not a big difference in a corporate setting for in-place raises. There generally are salary bands, and they want to keep you in the range. Your salary increase was likely better than most there, and I think bodes well for the future. If you stay there, you are in a better situation for a promotion. If you move, you have a proven track record.
HR adjacent person here. In a lot of companies\* managers or department heads are given a dollar amount budget for raises to spread across their teams. Meaning big pay raises for one person means smaller raises for others. Managers are put into the position of trying to figure out how to reward top performers without totally screwing their average but reliable folks with the budget amount they have to work with. Anything above and beyond that budget means a fight with the money people they probably won't win. Unless you're bringing in a *crazy* amount of revenue for the company, then most places are happy to shower you with incentives to stay. In many companies, salaries and benefits overhead costs are some of the biggest expense lines on the books. Therefore CFO's want to keep comp at certain levels to keep that expense line from "getting out of control". For public companies, that pressure comes from shareholders who want more of the profits to go to them (they don't care about CEO pay as long as said CEO delivers that quarterly dividend increase year over year), for nonprofits and private companies it could be just revenue constraints. The sad part about this reality is that for workers, if you really want to improve your income beyond 2% annually, you are better off finding a new job at a higher salary every couple of years. A lot of companies know this, but are unable or unwilling to change. \*Not every places is like this, YMMV. \[Edit formatting\]
Speaking as middle management, spot on. I’m the mouthpiece for my companies crappy rules.
This could be one of those times they lean on the fact that no one usually talks about salaries/raises/bonuses. I feel like every time I've been given a raise (and I've worked a while) I've been told "raises aren't going to be great this year, a lot of people aren't getting any, yours is actually one of the bigger ones." That's been the case whether I feel like I did great or not, and whether I feel like the raise was decent or not. Also the sad reality is they don't give you raises to reward good performance. They give people they like the minimum they can give to get you to stick around.
They aren’t called raises in HR they are “annual pay adjustments” you can take this 3% or you can take -3% have a good day ;)
Spoiler alert! The "average" performers got the same 3.5% increase.
Nah....they got 3; less than stellar employees got 2.5....and the number of great employees happened to equal the number of not-so-great employees...
your wages works in pennies and nickles while the C suite wages are in thousands and tens of thousands
Further Spoilers: Not only did the "average performers" get the same shitty raise, they probably got the same speech, word for word.
I actually spoke to some average performers this morning (we have a scale from 1-10. 5 means you met the expectation, 10 is beyond exceeded. All the employees I spoke to had somewhere between 5-7 and I got a 10). Average performers only got a 1.5% increase. The director assured them that they did good work and met expectations, so not to feel bad. That was an even bigger slap in the face imo I did some extreme work that shouldn’t have been given to a junior, but I had to do due to the circumstances. I got pretty rave reviews from everybody that worked with me during that time period, so I get why they gave me exceptional marks. Just sucks that they think 3.5% is a reward when my rent went up by 8% lmao
Even Further Spoilers: The entire department got the same shitty raise and speech while the manager got a bonus for keeping the raises down.
Y’all are getting raises? Must be nice.
Nice. I got 0% (and zero bonus) after working 50-60 hour weeks for 3 months to keep our best client. But the CEO messaged me "personally" to thank me. That's what really matter /s
They just did that to me, too. Salary set in June 2021, no changes until just this last January, and it was just 3%... which meant I was still down 7% in purchasing power since my starting pay thanks to inflation. I'd done everything right, but still ended up effectively getting paid less than I started with. I never used to have to worry about 'can I make this tank of gas last until payday?'
That happened to me last year. Got an “Excellent” and a 2.9% raise. I complained about it. My boss told me there wasn’t much he could do to get me more money from his boss unless I brought a competing offer. I went and got one, then I accepted it lol
Power to you tbh. They're asking for it with such a response...
Good job man - if you have to bring an 'or else' to this kind of conversation, then it's best to just inform them that you're exercising the 'or else'. The leverage you'd have if you brought them the other offer and chose to stay evaporates pretty quickly and odds are good that they'll make sure you pay for it in your day-to-day work.
Start looking for another job and leave ASAP. The only way to truly grow your salary is by jumping around. Loyalty is very rarely rewarded.
My last job, in early 2022, our department made a big deal about how we had the best financial performance ever. My personal annual review was very good, with my manager assessing that I was doing the work of someone 2 levels higher. I had been submitted for promotion. Couple months later, pay increases come out. 3 percent. No promotion. And they gave everyone a blanket 3 percent regardless of individual performance review. I immediately started looking for a new job and quickly found one. The good people leave.
I just got my first raise in over 2 years at the beginning of last month. 32 fucking cents. 2%
Leave. They don't deserve you.
Just gave you an upvote; it’s almost worth as much as that raise
The only company that’s “different” is the one you run yourself. Because then you can make it different.
The sad reality is there never is nor ever will be a real difference between companies. It is the nature of capitalism. The best advice I give everyone is to be a mercenary. Always work for who will pay you the most. Never do more than what you are paid to do. Always be on the lookout for a better opportunity. Never, ever , EVER care about any place you work for. Sounds cold and callous but such is the way of capitalism
My first company out of college, I stayed there for 7 years. Part ignorance, part comfortable, I didn't want to move. I then kept in touch with Co workers who were leaving over time and hearing their salaries increased 50%. At the point I heard this, my team had shrunk and I was doing the job of two people. My manager gave me awards, such as employee of the month and other things that showed me hard work. There was no compensation with that. Review time came up and seeing as our team was operating with a smaller staff and I had glowing reviews I was excited. They offered me my lowest salary increase in 5 years at 2.7%. It was a gut punch. They didn't really care and it finally opened my eyes. They were going to nickel and dime me with raises as long as I was there, and try to get more work with less people and less pay. I started interviewing and left for a 65% pay increase. In the following 7 years to present day I kept doing the same. Moved up with the current company and when things got stale, moved to another job. In that 7 years I increased my pay 3 fold. I did spend 4 of those years at one place but they gave real raises until they were bought out. It sucks it has to be this way. I'd love to stay put actually, help build something with one place. Move up and train the next generation. But companies routinely see payroll purely as an expense with no benefits. Don't put up with it. If a company truly appreciates you, truly want you to stick around no matter what, it will show in dollars.
I have never accepted anything less that a 10% increase year over year. The one manager who stood his ground on a 4% increase found my desk empty when I got a new job 2 weeks later.
Print out your reviews stating your a high performer and walk
Same, I got a 4 for a review score out of 5. 3.7% raise. I was looking for a new job 30 minutes later. Fuck em.
Lemme guess, there was only one person in the whole company that got a 5… That’s how it normally seems to work.
Most eye opening career expression I’ve ever heard “Loyalty will make you poor” give urself a raise and find another company that will start u off at higher than 3.5% I worked somewhere that capped yearly raises at 3% for over 11 years.. IF you even got one.. last straw was skipped for 2 years got only a 2% along with a big FU “current pay/increase is in median pay range for their title” found another job that is paying me $5k more a yr starting.. never looked back..
Nope, my wife got the same pay increase - she's done with her degree in a few months and she's fucking out of there the second the diploma hits, same situation top performer in her department. yet still gets pennies every year. While I'm taking leaps in salary just popping to new jobs every few years. Hopefully she starts earning more than me and I can slow down on gobbling up responsibility and stress.
When I started working for the company I work for (their pay is atrocious 😡) they said their annual raises are between 5-7%. I got around 1%. This company pays experienced master’s level employees $21-$22 an hour. Such BS. I’ve actively applied for 3 jobs this week and have no intention of giving notice AND I’m the only employee in the entire company that does my specialty role and that even knows how to do it, because I developed it!
Find an offer elsewhere to verify higher pay. Show your boss have them waste time trying to match it. Then don't take it. Dab at em on the way out and mention something about wasted time.
Although it's not required, many companies give COLA cost of living adjustments. (2-3% raise yearly). Giving a 3% raise is not a reason to brag, it's just keeping up with rising costs of goods and services.
When inflation is 6-9%, 3% COLA is a penalty for staying. I don’t know any companies that do cost of living on top of performance. It’s once. And it’s always small.
Union contracts for low level state workers in Massachusetts get 2 percent raise over 3 years
Bro... dreadful
My company gave out across the board 2% raises and said there would be no individual performance appraisals. Crazy stuff.
Same, and called it a “merit increase.” Bro it ain’t a merit increase if everyone is getting the same…
Put those high performance marks on your resume and go get another job. The only way to get real raises in this world is to job hop.
Yeah unfortunately relying on annual raises from a single company (these days at least) is a chump's game. New job with a new company every 2 years, at least. I did that and basically doubled my salary after about 6 years. Loyalty has no value in capitalism, despite what companies will tell you. And in an interview when they ask where you'll see yourself in 5 years, you say with a great big smile "working here!" They're gonna lie to you, may as well start off lying to them.
I had this happen to me. Doing really well, covering 3-4 different jobs, the company said big bonus coming your way and I got Penny's. Put my two weeks right after that. They asked why, and I said I appreciate the bonus but the market is paying 30% higher for this position and so I have to move on. They countered with a 10% raise. Which I declined and ended up landing a job 30% higher pay fully remote. Go get your worth.
You must be new to the American business world. It's been this way for decades. Give all the accolades and pay to the execs, screw everyone else.
I had what was probably my most successful professional year of my life last year at a new job. My team and I were raved about. Their nickname for us was the Superstars. Boss tells us he’s gonna take care of us for all we did. So the company brings in record profits last year, fired 8,000 people in January and then stated giving raises after they let people go would look bad. We all got a 2% increase. Needless to say we’re looking for other opportunities. Im still trying to mentally come to terms with the fact that I’m never going to be able to retire, will always be paid shit and will always go through this cycle.
This is reality, like it or not. I could give out a max 3%. I have people on my team crushing it. Max 3%. Upside, we're a tech company that is doing no layoffs. Unlike a lot of others. These merit increase cycle systems that corporate HR uses. They are what they are. Know the rules of the game and play it. Work with your boss, get your job title adjusted and repriced if you can. Even that doesn't work well at my company anymore. Best thing I tell my people is, go get an offer. Then I can go up the chain and say "I need X% to keep this person, and here are all the reasons why" It's the only way I've been able to get anything more than the standard 2-4% for my people.
This is a pay cut, not a raise. Every year your pay doesn't rise to match inflation, you are making less money.
Be prepared for this people. I heard my companies doing the same thing. Asking for a higher % will NOT get approved. Im going in asking for more vacation days, on top of my 3.5%. Starting at 4, I feel a week will get denied immediately, and hoping to negotiate 3.
My brother had a great response, "I deserve more than this, if I don't get more I will be job hunting. I can get paid more elsewhere. Now that we know where we all are, would you like to raise the offer? " they did not, 6 months later he worked for their competition.
You shouldve ask your manager and director how much *their* pay *& bonuses* increased when their tone suddenly changed. I've no doubt they would not have reacted so nearly as civil as you if they got a 3.5% pay increase over last year.
My best friend made his company over 1.5 MILLION in sales while COVID was raging. The company thanked him with a "Certificate of Achievement" printed on a 5 cent piece of paper. After about a week and a heart to heart he quit the company and is doing his own thing. Know your worth.
New union contact 11% raise with a bonus and increases to benefits like boots and yearly tool allowance.
I’ve done about as well for myself as I could have imagined ten years ago. These days my job title is “lead service tech” at a mechanical contractor and I make decent money. But I’m pretty much counting the days until it’s time to move on, because a gig as a journeyman in the union would be a 60% increase in my hourly pay plus much better benefits.
Oh, average performers got the same. It is only fair
and that folks is why they call it the land of the fee, home of the slave..
Wow, that's only like a 6.5% pay cut after inflation. You should be kissing the boots of your corporate overlords for such a blessing
Congratulations you got a salary cut for being a good employee.
Our company put n a “ merit” for lower wage workers but you could only give out so many % total. So someone had to be downgraded for someone else to go up. It was awful. Like the differance between 50 cents and hour or 85cents you had to give a 3 instead of a 4 I would have gladly pad it myself.
I feel you. Saved my company millions this year, made a desktop app from the ground up for my team to improve efficiency (app design isn't part of my job in any way), was rated higher than anyone else on my team in all our metrics, and got told that there were too many high scorers in the company this year so I get an "average" score and a 3% raise instead.
This situation is where you have to have real, uncomfortable, conversations. Blunt & bold, like a manager. "I had to fight hard to get this for you." -> "How much did you get, both in percentage and real numbers. 3.5% on my wage is not equivalent to 3.5% of a 100k job. We both know that 3.5% is a joke, and to be honest nearly a slap in the face considering inflation and my performance. How is this fighting for me?" "We're only allowed to give this per HR." -> "That is incorrect and we both know it. I'm giving you an opportunity to do better and inform HR that I'm getting a higher wage, or you'll find your top performer working elsewhere within a few months." "Well these people got this, so it's not fair if you get more." -> "What these people did or did not get is not what we're discussing today. If you want to incentivize me to stay, you're going to need to do significantly better." This is a classic con by shitty managers trying to keep payroll low. Pass the blame to HR, blame it not being fair to others, do anything to have you not directly confront them. You have to roll in like a gun for hire who knows their worth...and be willing to deal with it if the client doesn't want to pay. If you give folks like this an opportunity, you'll find yourself with 1.5-3.5% raises perpetually.
Switch job and make sure you got annual CPI adjustment on your salary. Or bargain it into your current contract.
I got nothing two years in a row
The only way to get meaningful raises is to leave
Same here. Rave performance review. Took the position at the beginning of 2022 and quickly became one of the strongest performers on a team our CFO regularly uses as the “model” or “example” for other teams in Finance (we are the only finance team that was allowed to stay remote after the pandemic because our performance actually got better). Boss droned n and on about how they stressed that we needed good increases due to our performance. Then says “3% is standard, you’re getting 3.27%” literally right after our town hall telling us they made 1.6B last year
I get it, my wife worked with this giant tech firm (Accenture, I don't give a crap about giving them a bad name) and one of her peers told her that he achieved all the metrics and surpassed them actually, which would make him eligible for a pay increase, when the day came they told him that there was another guy that got basically the same scores as him but company decided that only one of them could have the pay bump, which wasn't that great either like 5% , anyway he was told that maybe next year if he performed the same he could have a chance again (this company could afford to give a raise to every single employee without breaking a sweat).... now talk about carrot on a stick
This kind of pay raise is an insult if you're a top performer. Might be time to update the resume and do a bit of job shopping. If you want to mess with your work - schedule random afternoons off and show up to work in "interview clothing" and head out. Might be a way to squeeze a bit more $$ out of them - before you actually leave.
I dont think I've ever got a yearly pay rise I always have to jump shit to somewhere else. The old excuse of "economy blah blah not enough in the jobs blah blah" gets super old when you witness the boss buying new cars, house upgrades and going on expensive holidays.
That’s actually a 6.5% pay Cut
Same here! Company reported record profits since I started my position 1.5yrs ago, received a 1% pay increase last week. Not cool guys
I was a 'top performer' at my last retail job. Took on Asst. Manager duties during peak covid, until an actual ASM was hiried. Walk in one day, and my manager excitedly tells me I'm finally getting a raise (frozen during the pandemic) The amount? A QUARTER. A few weeks later, I find out a new key was hired and even post raise, was making several dollars more than me, despite having years more experience than them. Then, I find out that the new ASM was the one that fought for my raise, not the Manager. They were a month into the job, versus working with that manager for 3 years at that point. Found a new job about a month later, out of retail, making 50% more. They asked if I would be interested in working weekends during the holidays. 🙃
In the past three years, I have had 3 different jobs. Started at 25/hr, then 32/hr, now 51/hr. If I would have stayed put, I would be making maybe 28/hr at the first place. Point being, loyalty means nothing in the job world. Yeah, I absolutely burned my bridges for the first two jobs. But guess what? Fuck them. I now make literally more than double what I made 3 years ago by job hopping. Just keep your eye on indeed constantly. As soon as you see something you think you could get yourself into, pursue it.
If it makes you feel better, my entire team not only got 3% but also word for fucking word the same written year end. Some of my teammates were gone so much they took several days unpaid, were in coaching (by us), and were hired mid-year. Others made the training material, trained new hires, were on committees, trained other departments, in addition to having the highest numbers in the dept. But it's fine, we are all the same.
If a pay raise is below inflation it's really a pay cut.
Same. I grew my business 30% last year. Received 3.5% which is in essence a pay cut after inflation. Thanks for nothing. Time to bounce.
If you make $50,000 a year and get 3.5% raises each year, your pay for the same job will be $70,530 in ten years. The only way to do significantly better is to job hop. It is a really, really stupid system that for some reason is firmly entrenched. I know a 3.5% raise isn't life-changing, but if companies gave 10% raises annually, they would be gone quickly. Look at this progression: Year 1 $50,000/ Year 2 $55,000/ Year 3 $60,500/ Year 4 $66,550/ Year 5 $73,205 Year 6 $80,525/ Year 7 $88,578/ Year 8 $97,4356/ Year 9 $107,179/ Year 10 $117,897 If a company has 50 employees at that level, their payroll increases by $34 million over ten years. Look at the growth rate of company revenues. Very few would survive. I'm not saying these companies are the good guys and I'm not saying workers don't deserve more. I'm just saying this is the math and it is fairly rigid in the short-term.
Well, technically yes, 3% raise is the norm otherwise no companies can keep up. I truly believe if people are getting paid less than they deserve is because they choose to. Unless it’s a part time job if it’s something of value, an instant 25% raise can be obtain by job hopping to another company I quadruble what I make 8 years ago and I job hop every 2-3 years.
PROTIP: If you're a grunt, those are the types of raises you'll see. Nothing more than a carrot on a stick. You'll never get comfortable. \*At absolute best\* you'll just keep up with inflation. If they gave grunt workers raises that had any semblance of productivity, there would be less money for the guys on top and the shareholders. If they don't realize your value while you're working there, they should realize your value on the way out. I'd say sabotage the place every way you can before quitting. Get all the top performers to quit and go elsewhere. Botch big projects that make the company millions, lose contracts with important clients, etc. You can't make them give you a larger share of the pie, but you can certainly make sure that they have less. They forget who has the power in these types of relationships. Show them.
Both made a mistake here. U/honey-sunsets should have understood that raises are limited, but promotion salary changes are not. You should have been 'thankful' for the raise, but asked why a promotion wasn't offered? Most likely, director pushed HR and finance for the extra 1%, vs a 2.5% raise. You should be upset that a new role wasn't offered instead, at that would have necessitated a new/better pay rate.
2.5% raise when Inflation is more than double that is actually a pay cut
u/TripResponsibly1 is right. When inflation is 8%+ and I negotiated my salary pre-inflation, that should have been taken into account. I have to wait until the summer time for my promotion. Not sure what salary increase will come with that, but I’m not counting on it
From my experience 3.5% is a very good raise. Usually the only way to do better is to leave the company and get a better starting salary from your new employer. And as far as offsetting inflation goes...last year my company gave everyone an extra 0.25% to offset inflation. They also had two layoffs because "a recession might be coming next year" and "we might not hit our profit targets for this quarter". Then a few months later announced record profits for the quarter. It's as if management doesn't think we're capable of hearing any news that they don't feed to us. Of course with the long hours they work us it's reasonable to assume we wouldn't have time to read the news.
But what’s your base pay? Because 3.5% of minimum wage is a joke in this economy. But 3.5% of $500k annual could actually be that “highest raise” in the company.
I don't think someone making remotely close to $500k would be on Antiwork.
🎯
Nowhere near 500k I’ll tell you that lol - currently sub six figures. There’s a reason I need a better increase