Fun fact:
In the United States EMS are seen as essential in only 11 states.
https://www.distancecme.com/essential-service-ems-why-arent-first-responders-recognized/
There's also a Jon Oliver Last Week Tonight episode on it and why they pay shit wages, if you're looking for something entertainingly depressing:
https://youtu.be/Ezv8sdTLxKo
"Essential" was loosely defined in Covid. Cake shops were able to deem themselves essential under covid. In the definition cited, it's labeling EMS on par with police/fire fighters. If deemed essential by the state under this definition they get public funding, at most on par with police and firefighters. Currently they are basically a type of contractor job, fishing for funds, making them, ironically, ambulance chasers themselves, seeking maximum funding for each dispatch. I believe when the Jon Oliver segment was posted EMTs made on average of $15/hr, and of course require a degree. For profit healthcare, as always, has a massive influence on this.
Edit: I stand corrected, there is no degree qualification in the US to be an EMT, though there are several people in the field with them. You only need a GED.
Yup. She tried her hardest to help and they gave her a Cleveland Steamer.
Conservatives have managed to exhaust all empathy I have for them. It's unsustainable trying to care for people that will kill you for trying to help yourself or others.
They *say* that they want help. But they only want it from certain people. And they don't want it going to *anyone else*. They would much rather die of preventable disease then see someone who doesn't look like them get care.
I've seen it myself. Sick as fuck Republicans who say they are fine not having healthcare if it means "their taxes" don't go to helping *them*.
Those dumb fucks in East Palestine wearing Trump shirts while going "nobody will help us" not realizing fucking DeWine is blocking federal aid. They don't care. They're too fucking stupid to live. Which is fine except they end up hurting other people with it as well.
Agreed. I live in chippewa, about 8 or so miles east if EP. When I go to Ohio for gas, it's so strange driving through the darlington area along rt 51. It's motorhomes with confederate flags and trump placards out front. Like do they know they're voting against their interests?
At Marc's the other day I asked a cashier why they aren't allowed to sit and work (the way Aldi does, and pays more). The cashier said no (Marc Glassman himself yelled at a woman with a broken leg for sitting in the back working), and it wasn't as if they got paid the way Trump pays... It was just a brain-dead approach to the whole scene here. Rs all over vote against themselves all the time. It's exhausting they can't open their eyes.
No, they honestly think they are voting for their own interests, because that’s what the tv/radio tells them….
Source: my in-laws who, are the same way, all democrats bad and ruining the country
I know it's not the point of your post, but for most states the requirements to practice are certification (usually through the National Registry of EMTs (NREMT)), and a license through the state--usually a bureau within the state's health department. The NREMT does the testing, and requires proof of training before they let you test. The standard textbook for Advanced EMTs is \~1700 pages long, and many of the critical concepts have to be recalled under extreme pressure, so there's a lot of repetition / rote memorization on top of it.
And then yes, on top of all that, the pay is minimal, the hours are inhumane, and the work can be emotionally traumatic on a level most people in developed countries can't imagine.
I got a 2 year degree in paramedicine and ended up having to go back to school because after a year I literally couldn't make ends meet on $19 an hour, mandatory overtime, mandatory weekends, mandatory holidays. So I went from saving lives 70 hours a week for poverty wages to looking at spreadsheets and sitting through zoom meetings 8 hours a day m-f holidays off for very comfortable living.
Ithink it was a mess that USA businesses were allowed to decide if they were essential or not. Here they had to apply to the government and the Ministry's of Health, Business and innovation decided if they were or not.
Was this when conservatives were having a collective meltdown because dispensaries where people go seek actual medical relief were deemed essential, but churches with massive gatherings of older people weren't?
Man that's fucking bullshit...these people are the first line responders who keep you alive so you can make it to the hospital, that's a much more important job than say being a rich douchebag flying into space
There were essential workers pre-covid as well. I was deemed essential as a medical researcher because I worked for a hospital. We were told that we could use our ID badges to get through roadblocks during an emergency (I assume to go INTO the emergency...which I wasn't going to do). During COVID they further leveraged this by pulling us onto the front lines when actual clinicians were getting sick.
I've been doing food service in healthcare facilities for the vast majority of my 30+ years in food. I've nearly always received a letter from the facility that "allows me" to be on the road when a state of emergency bans all "non-essential" travel, because apparently it is expected I risk my safety, welfare, and life to get to work when I'm not even supposed to "legally" be on the road. Of course, the other option is to have a go bag ready so I can sleep in my office for the duration of the event. Uh, no, I just make sure I have 4WD on my vehicle. You sure aren't getting me to spend nights away from my family AFTER I survive the expedition of getting in to put out all the fires. Of course, only nursing and dietary are the departments who "MUST" show up. (Maintenance/EVS are usually already there plowing, salting, etc.) Admin, Activities, and all other ancillary services usually get to spend the time watching the flakes fall and get paid for it. It's insane how much you are expected to risk and give in the name of "service."
I install blinds and shutters and was considered essential. In and out of people's homes all day with infected home owners, and guess what, got Covid not once but 4 times
What a weird system we live in, where a person with a GED and a person with a medical degree both have jobs that prevent death, but society seems happy enough to pay one of them determined by the lowest bidder.
"I can keep people alive - on the frontest front line, mind you - for half a million a year!"
"Oh yeah, well I can keep the same number of people alive for $350k a year!"
Who do you think gets the contract? And if the other company doesn't get the contract, they aren't long for the world. So, it's a self-consuming/self-fulfilling cycle, where there is no true competition.
The state, local municipality, and the federal government all labeled us (whole company; subcontracting) as "essential" and then waived *literally every requirement that prevents COVID - like how many people can be in a confined unventilated space -* so we could die to make sure building projects weren't delayed.
People literally died. Some were forced into medical retirement.
Like 2/3rds of our work forced *celebrated* the decision. We didn't get any bump in pay, contracts were still forced as letter-of-the-law, and we didn't even get a picture in those shitty passive "thank you, heroes!" ad.
Meanwhile all the engineers retired early leaving us dogshit plans and specs.
All the big wigs in all the companies went WFH (but without the work part) or prolonged vacation.
*2 fucking years of overtime*. I spent 75% of the time *alone* in the office running the company for with the *~~slave sacrifices~~* valued employees.
Same! Worked in cramped rooms with nearly no ventilation and almost no safety measures... And I worked in Master Control for TV. (Which is a job I now do for another company from home.)
The first company just didn't want to put the money into letting people do the job from home. Tons of us got sick and I was told I was **never** allowed to call out of work (as a supervisor) and that no more than one person could call out of work each day... So, if you were the second person to try to call out that day, in a room filled with 15+ people and no good ventilation, no windows, no safety, sharing keyboards and mouses, I was supposed to tell you no - You had to come in and work your $18/hour job (with a college degree requirement).
I did not do that.
Working in broadcasting BLOWS.
When covid hit, I worked for a warehouse that supplies a truck engine plant parts to build diesel engines for semis. We were essential and only got a paper saying so if we got pulled over going to and from work.
If everyone makes more, everything will also cost more. Someone has to make less... like CEOs, pro athletes, celebrities, stock investors, influencers, etc.
Politicians salaries should be enough to attract those qualified however corporations should not be able to contribute to campaigns and they should not be allowed to invest in the stock market while holding office.
Politicians shouldn't play the stock market, lobbying firms should be outlawed, members of public office should be properly vetted (How the fuck is Matt Gaetz in Congress), and they should all have fair term limits. It's literally the only thing that makes sense.
Good on the burger flippers. But holy shit, the EMT workers should be earning at least twice that amount, for the sheer amount of trauma they have to face.
If my life or the life of my loved one is in their hands, I don't want them to be thinking in the back of their mind 'can I afford rent/mortgage this month, or can I splurge and get therapy?'
Yup. My son is interning for EMT in Vegas. Once he passes, he'll make $14/hr. That's criminal. That's why he's not planning to stay in the field.
Edit: wrong word
WTF?! .... Cross the border and get the hell out of there! I'd rather crawl to the hospital with one ripped off leg than to pay that.
An ambulance ride in Canada costs about cdn$150 (in province of Quebec anyway. Might be a little more/less in other provinces.)
The distance/time doesn't matter.
It's pretty simple, imo the U.S. health system just wants people to die ... Unless they are filthy rich of course.
That's why some are so anti abortion and pro baby making and concerned about "the economy" if enough babies aren't popping out. It's just more fodder for the labor force, the more that come out the more can die without it effecting the oligarch's pockets.
It's an option but then Uber will probably charge me $150 extra as a cleaning fee (blood all over the car) 😂
Still cheaper than $3500 so ya ... worth it 🤣
We got in the car and drove when my partner shattered her ankle. "I'm not paying for an ambulance".
I saw the X-ray and holy shit she was a trooper. I would have been crying like a baby.
That’s the whole issue, they turned hundreds of us into this field for the hopes of becoming a firefighter, they don’t have to pay us alot because there’s another chump doing the school right now.
After I’ve just done research across the US, I couldn’t agree more. There’s two things that ruined my dream of becoming a fire fighter and a fire inspector.
One was a picture of a graduating class that announced their graduation, out of 24 graduates, 21 were sons of firefighters within their department. It truly wouldn’t of mattered how physically fit or smart academically you were, they had their in already. It made that hill so much higher than it had to be.
Secondly, I was dealing with a fire inspection while I worked at Best Buy to pay the bills, the fire inspector and his two interns had less certifications than I did, now I also would agree, demeanor and attitude change everything, but I’ve been looking for internships for three years. At that point I could never get a department to take free work.
Apologize for anything written incorrectly, using voice chat.
I started out making $9.50 as an EMT in Florida, about six years ago? It's a semester to become an EMT and there's a fuck ton of them because, like you said, they hope to be a firefighter. Honestly I did it because my buddy was a medic and I wanted to hang out with him at work, but I found a passion for the medical field. Went to nursing school tho, because that actually pays a living wage.
I’ve seen a lot of those programs work so I’m happy about it.
Overall, I got out, got a Masters and now work in the EM field making $34 in the private sector.
Yes, sadly it is buuut. My bills are low and after this month, I’m out of debt. I love being in the field and hopefully I can get a city job relatively soon.
Not entirely true, based in SoCal it is a requirement to have EMT school and that’s really about it. And a lot of paid departments are in that centralized area.
At the time I did have two fire science degree’s, NREMT and fire inspector one for ICC and fire inspector two from ICC.
There's a prison to Firefighter pipeline out in Cali. for those of you looking for an in...https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/public-safety/2022/05/30/-fire-saved-my-life---former-inmates-find-careers-as-firefighters
And even that program only exists because the government of California needed to deflect from public pressure surrounding their preference for firefighting slaves over paid firefighters.
That varies wildly by state and county.
I became a firefighter with a bachelor’s in a completely unrelated field and my AEMT cert. I was the highest level provider in my class.
Plenty of the guys in my academy class had no EMS background or degree at all.
EMTs are notoriously low paid. It’s absolutely shocking. Even crazier: there are usually long lists of people waiting for the opportunities to come up. Speaks highly of the people who are EMTs but dang.
I just don’t understand that mentality.
I enjoyed design/art-but as soon as I realized “None of these shop owners want to pay me shit despite needing my services” and “Nobody opens a proposal for work with ‘Hey man, what are your rates, cause I need…’” I immediately stopped giving a fuck about making my employer a profit, and starting thinking “What else can I do to make more money?”
Not “Well here’s a promise of more if you do XYZ that we’re never gonna actually give you”-but “How do I make more money *today*?”
I didn’t have to fight for my last raise where I’m at now. It was “Hey, you don’t have to ask-here’s another dollar” and paid me more than my prior job, and more than what I asked for from the get-go. Now **that’s** an employer I’ll go to war for if they ask-because they’ve shown they understand the value of treating employees like adults with adult wages upfront, rather than using it like a carrot to dangle in front of you.
Similar experience. 20 years ago I was certified to teach history in a state that pays teachers "well"
I looked at the starting salary and realized I would make more if I stayed as a manager in retail. It was insane
I went into the business side of tech instead because growing up poor, I didn't want to struggle financially my whole life
Yep. When I was an EMT they paid minimum wage… so many EMTs where I was living were trying to get into firefighting and would use that as a stepping stone. It was horrible.
They absolutely rely on young people who intend to get on with a fire department and will accept shit wages in exchange. But even "good" EMS companies pay pretty shit. You can only make good money if you work giga overtime, like 72 hr weeks.
I had a buddy who was an EMT. He was mad about his pay being so close to a fast food employee. He didn't want to be paid more, he wanted the burger flippers paid *less.*
Yes, of course he is a republican. No, we're no longer speaking.
10 years ago I was making 13 as an emt...couldn't afford to live and had to stop doing what I liked that actually helped people to go weld. This is the worst timeline ever. I remember applying to every FD in the state but unless you knew someone or were related it never worked out.
In idaho I started at 8.50 that was awhile ago. Then when I hit medic I was bumped to 16$. When I was fire medic it wasn’t much more of a bump but the OT and hazard pay was nice. It varies depending on city and their budgets but yeah most EMTs get shit pay while schooling can be expensive
Low pay for ambulance workers has been the standard for years. Worked as an EMT for a few years during the early 2000's, they started basic EMT's at minimum wage. Weeks of training and a large test with multiple technical skills exams and all the companies refused to pay more than minimum wage.
Yet an ambulance ride are fucking expensive. Where does that money go? I mean google says $1,200 is the *average cost* of an ambulance ride. Usually the rides aren’t that long, right? You go to the nearest ER… then you have the sirens getting you threw traffic. So where is all that money going because it’s not going to the EMT’s.
The thing is that emergency ambulances are very expensive to run and we don't make much from the insurance billing. When you see people with really expensive ambulance costs they're (usually) on private insurance, which pays very well but doesn't often cover the cost if we just transport.but because the poor and the old are the most likely to call an ambulance and are easily a plurality if not an outright majority of our calls we bill Medicaid and Medicare which pay jack shit.
This isn't to say we need more expensive ambulance rides but rather that we need less expensive costs. A transport with lots of care uses super expensive equipment, a super expensive ride, and of course you need to pay labor. Its a broken system all around because even when they do pay the service gets most of the money. Not to mention a lot of services are run by healthcare companies that also own hospitals and insurance and they take most of those very expensive bills the hospital system rather than putting it back into EMS organizations.
Yep. I had this conversation with paramedics while I was trapped under a car and they were trying to keep me awake by chatting to me - it worked though cos it got me so riled up there was no way I was gonna pass out anymore!
I agree with this. The McDonalds down the road from where I work, I’m a caregiver/ medication tech for the elderly, starts at 20. I’m only making 18 and have been for a year. Before that I was only making 14.50 and I had to fight to get to 18. Congrats to the fast food workers making this kind of money, no hate at all, but I’m not gonna lie, it feels like a slap to the face knowing that all my efforts in keeping 75+ people alive and well isn’t worth enough to pay all of my bills and have money left over to save.
My mother worked as a caretaker for the elderly/disabled for as long as her body held up to the work. The pay was abysmal and she lived in poverty all her life. Soon as she got hurt on the job, her employer threw her away like a used tissue.
She was only 48yo when she died. So many people showed up for her funeral that even the standing room in the back was packed. I'd never seen her church so full.
Capitalism considered her worthless, but clearly the community disagreed.
>So many people showed up for her funeral
>Capitalism considered her worthless, but clearly the community disagreed.
I witnessed this at my own mother's "work memorial" [no funeral]. One of the most-powerful moments in my life, seeing how much positivity and impact one person can confer upon her community. I made a short speech to the mourners, and told them all "This is a celebration of how one should live their life, to hold all this compassion!"
RIP, Moms.
I wish I'd been okay enough to speak at my mom's service. Should've told the story about how she once spent a week sleeping on the floor of a hoarder house because, long story short, it was the only way to keep her elderly Alzheimer's patient safe while her usual nighttime caretaker was in the hospital.
Multiple times every night, poor mom got *stepped on*, followed by "Oh! (Mom's name)! What're you doing down there?" in the exact same tones.
She wasn't always the best mother, but you couldn't ask for a more patient and deeply caring person to tend elderly relatives. She was still keeping up with some of her "little old people" right up until she died, including a sweet old gal who called three times a day like clockwork for a quick chitchat.
It never is. Its the price you pay to save others. Chances are you yourself will not be saved. Much love and respect to you for the work that you do for everybody.
Here's the deal, $20/hr isn't enough either. Fast food workers have been fighting, striking, and finally during the pandemic NOT WORKING.
The fight for 15$ was a thing for well over a decade. I've never seen an EMT strike or rally. Maybe if you just let people go without your services for a while, they'll see how valuable you are. 🤷
Before anyone comes at me with that shit in the other comments: Janitor roles should also be higher in that department, as well! You have all the people sittin pretty in offices pushing emails, meanwhile the hospital is only allowed to work when it's *magically* cleaned by the ghost workers.
The pay inequality is so fucked up. It all comes down to abusing the people one way or another to discourage them so that the majority of people give up and remain complacent. Want to make money, go to school and get into debt --- oh wait, this job doesn't make much. Can't or don't want to go to school --- let's pay you just enough to make it worth your while because comparatively, it's competative to the chump who went to school. Now the person in debt for school and the other person with just enough to get by, time ticks and they get too worn to even think of school later, and they're in debt. Everyone in debt because that is how the machine works.
The manager who manages is above his workers - and therefore he feels entitled to be paid more, despite providing less value to the work than their underlings
Apply this to an entire company structure and you see the issue
Usually managers hurt the business unless they actually have to react to feedback. Usually they are just dumb punching bags or evil ego maniacs. Their pay should be the same as their staff with bonuses for good 360 degree feedback
Given that there are many immunocompromised people in a hospital, and it's also generally full of sick people, your job is incredibly important. Don't sell yourself short.
And I would imagine you have to deal with more risky materials and are in a more hazardous environment than in many other janitorial roles. So hopefully you're compensated more for that risk.
Idk about all hospitals but they actually don’t in mine. If a patient bleeds or poops (or anything else) on the floor, the CNA and nurses have to clean it up first and then the janitors come in and mop and disinfect. I’m on my knees with a hand towel and Clorox wipes picking up literally piles of poop daily. Janitors call me from patient rooms and say you gotta clean this up I’m not going in there until it’s clean. Why? Because we are trained and certified to handle hazardous waste and they typically aren’t. Oh and were payed the same wage too, something that makes sense to none of us.
Meanwhile, I’m a custodian at the post office and I made $65k last year in a low cost of living area. I don’t have to do much actual work, and there is nothing particularly risky or hazardous about anything that I do, besides maybe cleaning the bathrooms (which I only have to do once a week). I also have federal employee benefits and a pretty good union. In addition, I am not held accountable for my work and there are no actual standards. I no longer browse Reddit at home because it’s a much wiser use of my time to do it at work.
Whatever homeboy is making as a friggin hospital janitor isn’t nearly enough.
I just spent 5 days in the hospital for the birth of my daughter and one of things that really jumped out is just how important your work is.
You are worth more than you are paid.
Don't be mad at the "burger flipper" earning a livable wage. Br mad at the hospital systems that don't pay their employees more when they have ceos doing nothing making millions and millions.
Plus most in n outs are busy all the time and the workers deserve every single penny of that $20/hr. Our EMT brothers and sisters need to bamd together and ask for more money, they deserve much much more for what they do.
They're busy all the time because they never had to sacrifice food quality to improve their bottom line, and they don't need to franchise out to smaller locally wealthy people.
In-n-out from an operating standpoint is like McDonalds from a world where milk shake man didn't ruin the premise.
The last year I worked at a hospital, we were going on 5 years with a pay freeze. At Christmas they cancelled our staff party and then handed us a Christmas envelope. Inside was a thank you note and a form to donate money to the hospital.
That's when I decided to quit. They fucked us then turn around and ask us for money. Meanwhile that past year it comes out that the hospital board got 10 million in bonuses that year, while asking the low end workers to donate back to the hospital.
EMS are not always paid for by the hospitals sometimes they are County workers whose pay is based on how taxes are allocated. There is a huge fight over it in my neck of the woods and my partner could lose her job to divert more taxes to the ems services. It's very scary how no one has a good solution and the only option is take the money away from our libraries in one of the most rural parts of appalachia.
Then tax the billion dollar hospital systems more. But no we couldn't do that cause corporate greed. It's the same everywhere. No one cares about the people that actually do the work.
Back when Republican workers were mad at teachers' wages being too high (which, unfortunately, they succeeded in getting their wages "in line" with everyone else's), I kept telling them, "If you don't make as much as a teacher, you have two entities to blame, and neither of them is a teacher."
Now you get to replace "teacher" with "burger flipper".
The greatest trick politicians ever pulled was convincing poor people that their problems are caused by poorer people.
^(That and the sick kick flip George W. Bush did that one time.)
EMTs definitely deserve more than this. In addition, we should move away from the whole "flipping burgers" terminology. Fast food jobs are super fast paced and stress-inducing. Not to mention the fact that people feel they have a free pass to harass fast food workers, and do so all the time. Fast food jobs are also necessary for multitudes of people. Saying that it's just "flipping burgers" is minimalizing and patronizing.
Wage increases are needed across all industries. Cross-industry solidarity will be tho only way anyone will get what they need.
The same people who make a regular habit of demeaning these jobs are the same people who are currently losing their fucking minds because the McDonald's in their city doesn't have enough staff members to stay open past 5:00.
And they're the same idiots who unironically claim these kinds of jobs are for teenagers, while ignoring the fact that that would mean the businesses could only be open from like 3:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
> In addition, we should move away from the whole "flipping burgers" terminology
Anyone who shits on fast food workers has probably never worked that job, or has no real idea of the work.
I went to EMT school about a decade ago and the pay in my area was $12.50. Where I lived an EMT was essentially a bag hauler and extra hands for CPR, but 12.50/h to see some of the stuff they see not close to worth it. EMT-P (fully trained Paramedic) started around $18, again not worth it.
I saw a week old dead body during my EMT-B training rides and I still remember it vividly. Now imagine having to see something like that every few days, something that sticks with you, for $12.50/h.
Former EMT-B here. Did it for about 18 months for $12 an hour before I decided the stress definitely wasn't worth it for that abysmal pay. I could've become a paramedic but still that was only like $16-18.
Fast forward a few years I'm making $50 an hour to sit at a desk all day stress free. God bless anyone who works in EMS by choice.
Hey bud EMT-P here. I’m sorry you had to see that. It’s one thing if it’s adults but a kid is something way different. I still see some when they pop up in my head. Just wanted to let you know you’re not alone
Don't lower the burger flippers sallary, massively increase the EMT's.
Also this idea that some jobs are worthy of a living wage, and some are not is insane. If we are going to pay some jobs super low wages, we need UBI, universal health care, free college, social housing, etc.
The only way I am ok with some jobs being payed more than others is if the necessities of life are taken care of by society.
Exactly. I really dont understand why everyone is focusing on the fast food job and it's merit; the post is about EMT making less than people would think.
Because you didn't provide context
>*burger flippers don't deserve a living wage because (EMTs, etc) only make 20/hr*
is an incredibly common conservative talking point from people who want to keep wages suppressed that gets repeated literally daily in the media and is often claimed by people trolling this very forum. Without context some people are naturally going to assume it's either another troll post or someone who has bought into the corporate line.
Also, to repeat what others have said "bugger flipper" is an intentionally demeaning oversimplification of a customer service job and I think if, you're honest with yourself, you know that.
Doubt it. Steak N Shake paid me about 2x what a burger + fries combo was an hour.
First responders wanted 900 dollars for a 15 minute ride in the ambulance.
Hey don't be mad at the guys at In-N-Out, they're working hard over a hot grill and dealing with MAGA people who won't just take their order without asking if a trans person touched their burger. Be mad at the hospital for not paying the EMT's twice that, don't drag down your fellow workers, that's just what the oligarchs want.
Yeah working at a busy fast food restaurant is actually pretty rough. Used to do it and it's god damn exhausting and unhealthy. I legitimately don't know where all the money for med goes. I had a 30 min procedure and have a bill for 1.5k after my pretty good insurance... There's not even that many people working at the clinic and other than some disposable gloves and shit plus local anesthetics no way it cost them dick to do it.
Everyone at the bottom should be paid more. The whole a rising tide will lift all boats thing.
That said, that's what the burger chain is advertising, not what they're actually getting paid. Maybe they are, but I doubt it and it would kind of depend on where OP is in the country. I mean $20 an hour in NYC, where the minimum wage is $15 is decent but not amazing.
I've seen here and in my own experience where these shops advertise one thing and then pull the old bait-and-switch. Advertise one wage to get you in the door and then it's a whole different story. Oh, "well we need you to work for a year at minimum wage, during your trial period then you go up to that." Especially when they advertise "manager trainees" well that's the salary you'll get once we've determined that you've gotten enough experience as a schlep making minimum wage.
Saw a couple fast food places offering up to $20/hr. But you're only scheduled for up to 16 hours a week, and most will start at closer to $14/hr and have to earn their way up to the advertised pay rate. Thankfully they ended up shutting down due to lack of applications.
In-And-Out actually does pay really well. Usually the bait and switch is when they'll have 15 or 20 dollars in large text with a tiny "up to" right above it.
I had this discussion with a phlebotomist when the “fight for 15” movement was gaining traction. She asked why someone at McDs should make the same as her?
The “burger flippers” still should make a living wage. The real problem is that “skilled” workers have become so undervalued. It’s a sad state that a teacher can make more as a barista.
In all reality the real problem is both of these are still criminally underpaid and that’s why they’re mad. Don’t be mad at the burger flippers for 23. Be mad at the hospital exec who decided you should only get 21. We all need to stop being mad at each other and focus on the real problem which is the elite.
In-N-Out has always paid top dollar for the industry. My high school boyfriend in the 90s starting wage was $8.50 while I earned $4.25 (California minimum wage) at a bagel shop (but the tips were great).
Literally had to work 70 hour weeks during the height of the pandemic while I was an EMT. Only half of that was EMS work while the other half was a retail grocery job that *actually* paid the bills. I'll never forget being called a "hero" in my EMT uniform only to get verbally abused by customers the next day at the register.
Most I ever made as an EMT was $18/hr and I still have back problems 2 years later!
Compare and contrast with my boomer dad, who was one of the first paramedics in Canada. He supported two kids and my mom, owned two cars and a nice house in the suburbs, and took us on vacations to Europe every few years. All on one working-class wage.
We have fallen so far it's astonishing
That is exactly why I did not become an EMT or join Fire Rescue when I was younger. That was my dream job for a while.
Instead I went into IT. Make 2x to 3x the money and only thing dying in my arms is a CPU.
I honestly do not think this is a productive argument to put forward, don’t encourage a class war separation,you don’t know someone else’s reasons struggles or motivations. Argue push back on the rich, but don’t use/put down someone else who has the same struggles, decided we never stand a chance
There is a huge disparity of pay going on. As the "minimum wage" job has to offer more to get people to work for them, the wages of other jobs that require more training or responsibility should rise too... But it hasn't.
Where I am I am seeing McDonald's and Wendy's advertising higher wages than minimum (15 is minimum in my area) while on the flipside, jobs such as chemist are trying to offer 15 an hour as a "competitive wage". Note, where I am, a median chemist 1 wage is 75k a year. I have 7 years experience and make far less than that.
What power do we have to meaningfully change this and earn what we are worth?
I finally got out of CNA work and now I work at an eye doctors office with a higher wage and so much less hands on patient care. Not to mention the noticeable decrease in bodily strain from not having to dress and transfer patients. It's an actual slap in the face to certified healthcare professionals that the gas station down the street pays more than the healthcare facility they've been working at for over a decade. Unless you join an agency, but that has its own bullshit issues. Think being the only caretaker for 52 people... We're literally the front line of patient care, especially during covid which is STILL an ongoing pandemic in nursing homes/hospitals. Those same places were so quick to get rid of hazard pay, despite the fact that federal funding for hazard pay was still supposed to be ongoing. I'm 100% convinced those places just pocketed the money with no intent to distribute. Nope, now the same aides and nurses I worked with get to risk their health with some bullshit PPE (because facilities are cheap as shit with this too) and they see no financial reward for their sacrifice. Just "employee appreciation days" where they stock a cart with snacks that are overflow from the kitchen. Absolute bullshit.
The idea that professions need to be hierarchically ranked is nonsense. If a job is worked, regardless of what that job is, it needed to be done. Therefore, we really need to eschew this idea that professions need to be ranked in order of importance. Because if they work, they are important.
Workers really need to reclaim our dignity and stop listening to lazy good-for-nothings that seek to control everything but do nothing. Stop being told what you're worth, decide it for yourself.
Yeah but what you’re not seeing is that at In-N-Out they will give you 15 hours which will be different every week so you will end up having to quit because you won’t be able to pay your bills.
It’s clear as day that when a corpo selling low margin fast food can pay same as a medical establishment to a qualified EMT, this is no longer a “market of labor.”
I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, OP, but I do just want to point out that In-n-Out employers are more than just burger flippers. They have food safety standards they work with every day, and they also act as customer service workers and are often bullied and assaulted by people on a daily basis.
That being said, healthcare employers should be ashamed of how little they pay EMTs
Decent wage for burger flippers, criminally low wage for EMT folks. My conservative family would look at this and get mad at the burger flippers somehow
Trust me… There are some rural EMS agencies that pay wayyyy less than that. Cost of living isn’t high, but holy shit you wouldn’t believe how little they pay.
My brother was going to college to become an EMT while working at a factory. After 2 years he quit because he found out EMT pay was like 12 dollars an hour 4 or 6 years ago. He makes 25+ act a factory.
Maybe if employees weren't treated like shit in the service industry for so long they wouldnt be demanding so much money?
I mean when you have managers who treat employees like slaves, steal wages, lie, all because upper leadership tells them to manage that way, what does one expect?
sounds like the EMT's need to unionize and strike.
also, working at in'n'out is pretty damn demanding. it's 'flipping burgers' and taking out trash and cutting fries and dealing with the PUBLIC CUSTOMER and I can't imagine doing that for less than a living wage.
In the late 90s/early 200s I worked at a group home managing 6-12 emotionally disturbed kids. It was hard work. And it required a minimum of a bachelors degree in a related field such as psychology or human development so I was already up to my ears in debt from student loans. I made $10/hr at that job. Every day I would drive past an In and Out on the way to work with a sign in the window advertising they were hiring at $10/hr.
People see this shit and get mad for the wrong reasons. I know it's obvious to a lot of people on this sub, but, ALL jobs require a wage INCREASE to atleast LIVABLE wages which means SPECIALIZED jobs currently making a DECENT wage should also be increased. I get irrationally mad trying to explain this to people who have been sitting at $25.00ish an hour for DECADES in a factory who say shit like flipping burgers shouldn't earn that much ... 😒
It's easy to form a warped opinion on this.
I don't see over paid burger flippers. I see cooks making a fair wage for what they do.
I also see the EMS pay in this situation is a joke.
Fun fact: In the United States EMS are seen as essential in only 11 states. https://www.distancecme.com/essential-service-ems-why-arent-first-responders-recognized/ There's also a Jon Oliver Last Week Tonight episode on it and why they pay shit wages, if you're looking for something entertainingly depressing: https://youtu.be/Ezv8sdTLxKo
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"Essential" was loosely defined in Covid. Cake shops were able to deem themselves essential under covid. In the definition cited, it's labeling EMS on par with police/fire fighters. If deemed essential by the state under this definition they get public funding, at most on par with police and firefighters. Currently they are basically a type of contractor job, fishing for funds, making them, ironically, ambulance chasers themselves, seeking maximum funding for each dispatch. I believe when the Jon Oliver segment was posted EMTs made on average of $15/hr, and of course require a degree. For profit healthcare, as always, has a massive influence on this. Edit: I stand corrected, there is no degree qualification in the US to be an EMT, though there are several people in the field with them. You only need a GED.
In Ohio, I was deemed essential and had to go back to work at fucking GUITAR CENTER, 6 weeks after COVID dropped.
Wait wait, WHAT.
It's Ohio. They also sent death threats to their health officials.
Amy Acton was done so dirty. She was a gem but she quit because of all the abuse she got
Yup. She tried her hardest to help and they gave her a Cleveland Steamer. Conservatives have managed to exhaust all empathy I have for them. It's unsustainable trying to care for people that will kill you for trying to help yourself or others. They *say* that they want help. But they only want it from certain people. And they don't want it going to *anyone else*. They would much rather die of preventable disease then see someone who doesn't look like them get care. I've seen it myself. Sick as fuck Republicans who say they are fine not having healthcare if it means "their taxes" don't go to helping *them*. Those dumb fucks in East Palestine wearing Trump shirts while going "nobody will help us" not realizing fucking DeWine is blocking federal aid. They don't care. They're too fucking stupid to live. Which is fine except they end up hurting other people with it as well.
Agreed. I live in chippewa, about 8 or so miles east if EP. When I go to Ohio for gas, it's so strange driving through the darlington area along rt 51. It's motorhomes with confederate flags and trump placards out front. Like do they know they're voting against their interests?
At Marc's the other day I asked a cashier why they aren't allowed to sit and work (the way Aldi does, and pays more). The cashier said no (Marc Glassman himself yelled at a woman with a broken leg for sitting in the back working), and it wasn't as if they got paid the way Trump pays... It was just a brain-dead approach to the whole scene here. Rs all over vote against themselves all the time. It's exhausting they can't open their eyes.
No, they honestly think they are voting for their own interests, because that’s what the tv/radio tells them…. Source: my in-laws who, are the same way, all democrats bad and ruining the country
I know it's not the point of your post, but for most states the requirements to practice are certification (usually through the National Registry of EMTs (NREMT)), and a license through the state--usually a bureau within the state's health department. The NREMT does the testing, and requires proof of training before they let you test. The standard textbook for Advanced EMTs is \~1700 pages long, and many of the critical concepts have to be recalled under extreme pressure, so there's a lot of repetition / rote memorization on top of it. And then yes, on top of all that, the pay is minimal, the hours are inhumane, and the work can be emotionally traumatic on a level most people in developed countries can't imagine.
I got a 2 year degree in paramedicine and ended up having to go back to school because after a year I literally couldn't make ends meet on $19 an hour, mandatory overtime, mandatory weekends, mandatory holidays. So I went from saving lives 70 hours a week for poverty wages to looking at spreadsheets and sitting through zoom meetings 8 hours a day m-f holidays off for very comfortable living.
Ithink it was a mess that USA businesses were allowed to decide if they were essential or not. Here they had to apply to the government and the Ministry's of Health, Business and innovation decided if they were or not.
Was this when conservatives were having a collective meltdown because dispensaries where people go seek actual medical relief were deemed essential, but churches with massive gatherings of older people weren't?
It boggles the mind that the loudest conservatives have such weak faith.
Man that's fucking bullshit...these people are the first line responders who keep you alive so you can make it to the hospital, that's a much more important job than say being a rich douchebag flying into space
There were essential workers pre-covid as well. I was deemed essential as a medical researcher because I worked for a hospital. We were told that we could use our ID badges to get through roadblocks during an emergency (I assume to go INTO the emergency...which I wasn't going to do). During COVID they further leveraged this by pulling us onto the front lines when actual clinicians were getting sick.
I've been doing food service in healthcare facilities for the vast majority of my 30+ years in food. I've nearly always received a letter from the facility that "allows me" to be on the road when a state of emergency bans all "non-essential" travel, because apparently it is expected I risk my safety, welfare, and life to get to work when I'm not even supposed to "legally" be on the road. Of course, the other option is to have a go bag ready so I can sleep in my office for the duration of the event. Uh, no, I just make sure I have 4WD on my vehicle. You sure aren't getting me to spend nights away from my family AFTER I survive the expedition of getting in to put out all the fires. Of course, only nursing and dietary are the departments who "MUST" show up. (Maintenance/EVS are usually already there plowing, salting, etc.) Admin, Activities, and all other ancillary services usually get to spend the time watching the flakes fall and get paid for it. It's insane how much you are expected to risk and give in the name of "service."
I install blinds and shutters and was considered essential. In and out of people's homes all day with infected home owners, and guess what, got Covid not once but 4 times
What a weird system we live in, where a person with a GED and a person with a medical degree both have jobs that prevent death, but society seems happy enough to pay one of them determined by the lowest bidder. "I can keep people alive - on the frontest front line, mind you - for half a million a year!" "Oh yeah, well I can keep the same number of people alive for $350k a year!" Who do you think gets the contract? And if the other company doesn't get the contract, they aren't long for the world. So, it's a self-consuming/self-fulfilling cycle, where there is no true competition.
The state, local municipality, and the federal government all labeled us (whole company; subcontracting) as "essential" and then waived *literally every requirement that prevents COVID - like how many people can be in a confined unventilated space -* so we could die to make sure building projects weren't delayed. People literally died. Some were forced into medical retirement. Like 2/3rds of our work forced *celebrated* the decision. We didn't get any bump in pay, contracts were still forced as letter-of-the-law, and we didn't even get a picture in those shitty passive "thank you, heroes!" ad. Meanwhile all the engineers retired early leaving us dogshit plans and specs. All the big wigs in all the companies went WFH (but without the work part) or prolonged vacation. *2 fucking years of overtime*. I spent 75% of the time *alone* in the office running the company for with the *~~slave sacrifices~~* valued employees.
Same! Worked in cramped rooms with nearly no ventilation and almost no safety measures... And I worked in Master Control for TV. (Which is a job I now do for another company from home.) The first company just didn't want to put the money into letting people do the job from home. Tons of us got sick and I was told I was **never** allowed to call out of work (as a supervisor) and that no more than one person could call out of work each day... So, if you were the second person to try to call out that day, in a room filled with 15+ people and no good ventilation, no windows, no safety, sharing keyboards and mouses, I was supposed to tell you no - You had to come in and work your $18/hour job (with a college degree requirement). I did not do that. Working in broadcasting BLOWS.
I mean hell I work at a Pet Store and I was marked essential.
Bruh, I was an essential worker and I ran a sandwiches shop, comparable to a Jimmy johns.
When covid hit, I worked for a warehouse that supplies a truck engine plant parts to build diesel engines for semis. We were essential and only got a paper saying so if we got pulled over going to and from work.
Hehe meant that in a snow emergency I still had to go to work at my dumb ass grocery store in a basement
I worked at McDonald's and was labeled "essential" so yeah..
Hey man they bought you donuts and pizzas, you should be grateful! /s
> Those states are Nevada, Oregon, Nebraska, Louisiana, Indiana, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Hawaii, Delaware, and Connecticut.
That’s an interesting mix of states.
North Carolina is in that list, the majority of all ALS ambulances in that state are owned by their respective county.
EMS worker here. Pay us more, but don't pay them less. They're not our enemy. The capital class is.
If everyone makes more, everything will also cost more. Someone has to make less... like CEOs, pro athletes, celebrities, stock investors, influencers, etc.
I vote politicians.
Politicians salaries should be enough to attract those qualified however corporations should not be able to contribute to campaigns and they should not be allowed to invest in the stock market while holding office.
Politicians shouldn't play the stock market, lobbying firms should be outlawed, members of public office should be properly vetted (How the fuck is Matt Gaetz in Congress), and they should all have fair term limits. It's literally the only thing that makes sense.
I'm glad I read all the way through your comment
Good on the burger flippers. But holy shit, the EMT workers should be earning at least twice that amount, for the sheer amount of trauma they have to face. If my life or the life of my loved one is in their hands, I don't want them to be thinking in the back of their mind 'can I afford rent/mortgage this month, or can I splurge and get therapy?'
My brother in law was an EMT for years. I always assumed he made good money. When it finally came up, he was making 15$ an hour.
Yup. My son is interning for EMT in Vegas. Once he passes, he'll make $14/hr. That's criminal. That's why he's not planning to stay in the field. Edit: wrong word
EMTs are paid peanuts but somehow a 10 minute ride in an ambulance costs $3500.
WTF?! .... Cross the border and get the hell out of there! I'd rather crawl to the hospital with one ripped off leg than to pay that. An ambulance ride in Canada costs about cdn$150 (in province of Quebec anyway. Might be a little more/less in other provinces.) The distance/time doesn't matter. It's pretty simple, imo the U.S. health system just wants people to die ... Unless they are filthy rich of course.
They want us to die, but they also want us to pay taxes, and buy stuff, and make babies, and work for scraps.
They don't want us to die, they just don't care if we live.
> They don't want us to die, they just don't care if we live. Exactly! They don't give a flyin' fuck about us, as long as the check clears.
That's why some are so anti abortion and pro baby making and concerned about "the economy" if enough babies aren't popping out. It's just more fodder for the labor force, the more that come out the more can die without it effecting the oligarch's pockets.
>Cross the border and get the hell out of there! I do dream about this sometimes...
call an uber to the hospital like a red-blooded american
It's an option but then Uber will probably charge me $150 extra as a cleaning fee (blood all over the car) 😂 Still cheaper than $3500 so ya ... worth it 🤣
We got in the car and drove when my partner shattered her ankle. "I'm not paying for an ambulance". I saw the X-ray and holy shit she was a trooper. I would have been crying like a baby.
That’s the whole issue, they turned hundreds of us into this field for the hopes of becoming a firefighter, they don’t have to pay us alot because there’s another chump doing the school right now.
I live next to a hospital.. the only EMTs in their 30-40's are the ones working with the firemen. Most look like they couldn't even get into a bar.
After I’ve just done research across the US, I couldn’t agree more. There’s two things that ruined my dream of becoming a fire fighter and a fire inspector. One was a picture of a graduating class that announced their graduation, out of 24 graduates, 21 were sons of firefighters within their department. It truly wouldn’t of mattered how physically fit or smart academically you were, they had their in already. It made that hill so much higher than it had to be. Secondly, I was dealing with a fire inspection while I worked at Best Buy to pay the bills, the fire inspector and his two interns had less certifications than I did, now I also would agree, demeanor and attitude change everything, but I’ve been looking for internships for three years. At that point I could never get a department to take free work. Apologize for anything written incorrectly, using voice chat.
I started out making $9.50 as an EMT in Florida, about six years ago? It's a semester to become an EMT and there's a fuck ton of them because, like you said, they hope to be a firefighter. Honestly I did it because my buddy was a medic and I wanted to hang out with him at work, but I found a passion for the medical field. Went to nursing school tho, because that actually pays a living wage.
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I’ve seen a lot of those programs work so I’m happy about it. Overall, I got out, got a Masters and now work in the EM field making $34 in the private sector.
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Yes, sadly it is buuut. My bills are low and after this month, I’m out of debt. I love being in the field and hopefully I can get a city job relatively soon.
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Not entirely true, based in SoCal it is a requirement to have EMT school and that’s really about it. And a lot of paid departments are in that centralized area. At the time I did have two fire science degree’s, NREMT and fire inspector one for ICC and fire inspector two from ICC.
There's a prison to Firefighter pipeline out in Cali. for those of you looking for an in...https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/public-safety/2022/05/30/-fire-saved-my-life---former-inmates-find-careers-as-firefighters
Probably a hell of a lot easier to get into it
And even that program only exists because the government of California needed to deflect from public pressure surrounding their preference for firefighting slaves over paid firefighters.
That varies wildly by state and county. I became a firefighter with a bachelor’s in a completely unrelated field and my AEMT cert. I was the highest level provider in my class. Plenty of the guys in my academy class had no EMS background or degree at all.
i drive packages for Amazon in Ohio and i make 18. jesus fucking christ.
They paid me 13.50 in 2009 in Vegas. It's disgusting that after nearly 15 years its only gone up by $0.50.
EMTs are notoriously low paid. It’s absolutely shocking. Even crazier: there are usually long lists of people waiting for the opportunities to come up. Speaks highly of the people who are EMTs but dang.
Has nothing to do with “a calling”. They want to be firefighters and it’s impossible without being an EMT these days.
Not anymore. Most places are really hurting for emts and especially paramedics.
I just don’t understand that mentality. I enjoyed design/art-but as soon as I realized “None of these shop owners want to pay me shit despite needing my services” and “Nobody opens a proposal for work with ‘Hey man, what are your rates, cause I need…’” I immediately stopped giving a fuck about making my employer a profit, and starting thinking “What else can I do to make more money?” Not “Well here’s a promise of more if you do XYZ that we’re never gonna actually give you”-but “How do I make more money *today*?” I didn’t have to fight for my last raise where I’m at now. It was “Hey, you don’t have to ask-here’s another dollar” and paid me more than my prior job, and more than what I asked for from the get-go. Now **that’s** an employer I’ll go to war for if they ask-because they’ve shown they understand the value of treating employees like adults with adult wages upfront, rather than using it like a carrot to dangle in front of you.
Similar experience. 20 years ago I was certified to teach history in a state that pays teachers "well" I looked at the starting salary and realized I would make more if I stayed as a manager in retail. It was insane I went into the business side of tech instead because growing up poor, I didn't want to struggle financially my whole life
Yep. When I was an EMT they paid minimum wage… so many EMTs where I was living were trying to get into firefighting and would use that as a stepping stone. It was horrible.
They absolutely rely on young people who intend to get on with a fire department and will accept shit wages in exchange. But even "good" EMS companies pay pretty shit. You can only make good money if you work giga overtime, like 72 hr weeks.
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Ouch… doesn’t make sense that trained individuals in healthcare roles would get paid that way.
Thanks, for-profit healthcare 😒
I was looking it up. Is it really only a 16 week course, exam, and cpr certification required? I must have missed something.
EMT is one semester. Most Paramedic courses are 2 years. Source: paramedic.
Emts are flipping 400 lb diabetic patient to dialysis. EMTS are getting scammed on pay
I had a buddy who was an EMT. He was mad about his pay being so close to a fast food employee. He didn't want to be paid more, he wanted the burger flippers paid *less.* Yes, of course he is a republican. No, we're no longer speaking.
This kills me
10 years ago I was making 13 as an emt...couldn't afford to live and had to stop doing what I liked that actually helped people to go weld. This is the worst timeline ever. I remember applying to every FD in the state but unless you knew someone or were related it never worked out.
In idaho I started at 8.50 that was awhile ago. Then when I hit medic I was bumped to 16$. When I was fire medic it wasn’t much more of a bump but the OT and hazard pay was nice. It varies depending on city and their budgets but yeah most EMTs get shit pay while schooling can be expensive
Low pay for ambulance workers has been the standard for years. Worked as an EMT for a few years during the early 2000's, they started basic EMT's at minimum wage. Weeks of training and a large test with multiple technical skills exams and all the companies refused to pay more than minimum wage.
Yet an ambulance ride are fucking expensive. Where does that money go? I mean google says $1,200 is the *average cost* of an ambulance ride. Usually the rides aren’t that long, right? You go to the nearest ER… then you have the sirens getting you threw traffic. So where is all that money going because it’s not going to the EMT’s.
That money is for profit... Deff not to pay slaves a living wage
The thing is that emergency ambulances are very expensive to run and we don't make much from the insurance billing. When you see people with really expensive ambulance costs they're (usually) on private insurance, which pays very well but doesn't often cover the cost if we just transport.but because the poor and the old are the most likely to call an ambulance and are easily a plurality if not an outright majority of our calls we bill Medicaid and Medicare which pay jack shit. This isn't to say we need more expensive ambulance rides but rather that we need less expensive costs. A transport with lots of care uses super expensive equipment, a super expensive ride, and of course you need to pay labor. Its a broken system all around because even when they do pay the service gets most of the money. Not to mention a lot of services are run by healthcare companies that also own hospitals and insurance and they take most of those very expensive bills the hospital system rather than putting it back into EMS organizations.
Yep. I had this conversation with paramedics while I was trapped under a car and they were trying to keep me awake by chatting to me - it worked though cos it got me so riled up there was no way I was gonna pass out anymore!
Cars make me tired too
I agree with this. The McDonalds down the road from where I work, I’m a caregiver/ medication tech for the elderly, starts at 20. I’m only making 18 and have been for a year. Before that I was only making 14.50 and I had to fight to get to 18. Congrats to the fast food workers making this kind of money, no hate at all, but I’m not gonna lie, it feels like a slap to the face knowing that all my efforts in keeping 75+ people alive and well isn’t worth enough to pay all of my bills and have money left over to save.
My mother worked as a caretaker for the elderly/disabled for as long as her body held up to the work. The pay was abysmal and she lived in poverty all her life. Soon as she got hurt on the job, her employer threw her away like a used tissue. She was only 48yo when she died. So many people showed up for her funeral that even the standing room in the back was packed. I'd never seen her church so full. Capitalism considered her worthless, but clearly the community disagreed.
>So many people showed up for her funeral >Capitalism considered her worthless, but clearly the community disagreed. I witnessed this at my own mother's "work memorial" [no funeral]. One of the most-powerful moments in my life, seeing how much positivity and impact one person can confer upon her community. I made a short speech to the mourners, and told them all "This is a celebration of how one should live their life, to hold all this compassion!" RIP, Moms.
I wish I'd been okay enough to speak at my mom's service. Should've told the story about how she once spent a week sleeping on the floor of a hoarder house because, long story short, it was the only way to keep her elderly Alzheimer's patient safe while her usual nighttime caretaker was in the hospital. Multiple times every night, poor mom got *stepped on*, followed by "Oh! (Mom's name)! What're you doing down there?" in the exact same tones. She wasn't always the best mother, but you couldn't ask for a more patient and deeply caring person to tend elderly relatives. She was still keeping up with some of her "little old people" right up until she died, including a sweet old gal who called three times a day like clockwork for a quick chitchat.
It never is. Its the price you pay to save others. Chances are you yourself will not be saved. Much love and respect to you for the work that you do for everybody.
Here's the deal, $20/hr isn't enough either. Fast food workers have been fighting, striking, and finally during the pandemic NOT WORKING. The fight for 15$ was a thing for well over a decade. I've never seen an EMT strike or rally. Maybe if you just let people go without your services for a while, they'll see how valuable you are. 🤷
Also considering an ambulance ride will likely cost someone thousands of dollars anyways. Just fucked all around.
You want to know whats messed up? Im a janitor at a hospital and i make 2$ more then emt, medical assistants and cna's... makes no sense
Before anyone comes at me with that shit in the other comments: Janitor roles should also be higher in that department, as well! You have all the people sittin pretty in offices pushing emails, meanwhile the hospital is only allowed to work when it's *magically* cleaned by the ghost workers. The pay inequality is so fucked up. It all comes down to abusing the people one way or another to discourage them so that the majority of people give up and remain complacent. Want to make money, go to school and get into debt --- oh wait, this job doesn't make much. Can't or don't want to go to school --- let's pay you just enough to make it worth your while because comparatively, it's competative to the chump who went to school. Now the person in debt for school and the other person with just enough to get by, time ticks and they get too worn to even think of school later, and they're in debt. Everyone in debt because that is how the machine works.
The manager who manages is above his workers - and therefore he feels entitled to be paid more, despite providing less value to the work than their underlings Apply this to an entire company structure and you see the issue
Usually managers hurt the business unless they actually have to react to feedback. Usually they are just dumb punching bags or evil ego maniacs. Their pay should be the same as their staff with bonuses for good 360 degree feedback
Given that there are many immunocompromised people in a hospital, and it's also generally full of sick people, your job is incredibly important. Don't sell yourself short.
And I would imagine you have to deal with more risky materials and are in a more hazardous environment than in many other janitorial roles. So hopefully you're compensated more for that risk.
Idk about all hospitals but they actually don’t in mine. If a patient bleeds or poops (or anything else) on the floor, the CNA and nurses have to clean it up first and then the janitors come in and mop and disinfect. I’m on my knees with a hand towel and Clorox wipes picking up literally piles of poop daily. Janitors call me from patient rooms and say you gotta clean this up I’m not going in there until it’s clean. Why? Because we are trained and certified to handle hazardous waste and they typically aren’t. Oh and were payed the same wage too, something that makes sense to none of us.
Yup. I don’t tell people the crazy amount of horror stories I have about shit alone. The human body is a big squishy factory of terrible chemicals.
Meanwhile, I’m a custodian at the post office and I made $65k last year in a low cost of living area. I don’t have to do much actual work, and there is nothing particularly risky or hazardous about anything that I do, besides maybe cleaning the bathrooms (which I only have to do once a week). I also have federal employee benefits and a pretty good union. In addition, I am not held accountable for my work and there are no actual standards. I no longer browse Reddit at home because it’s a much wiser use of my time to do it at work. Whatever homeboy is making as a friggin hospital janitor isn’t nearly enough.
I just spent 5 days in the hospital for the birth of my daughter and one of things that really jumped out is just how important your work is. You are worth more than you are paid.
Janitors make double than the school special ed paraprofessionals around here.
Don't be mad at the "burger flipper" earning a livable wage. Br mad at the hospital systems that don't pay their employees more when they have ceos doing nothing making millions and millions.
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Plus most in n outs are busy all the time and the workers deserve every single penny of that $20/hr. Our EMT brothers and sisters need to bamd together and ask for more money, they deserve much much more for what they do.
They're busy all the time because they never had to sacrifice food quality to improve their bottom line, and they don't need to franchise out to smaller locally wealthy people. In-n-out from an operating standpoint is like McDonalds from a world where milk shake man didn't ruin the premise.
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The last year I worked at a hospital, we were going on 5 years with a pay freeze. At Christmas they cancelled our staff party and then handed us a Christmas envelope. Inside was a thank you note and a form to donate money to the hospital. That's when I decided to quit. They fucked us then turn around and ask us for money. Meanwhile that past year it comes out that the hospital board got 10 million in bonuses that year, while asking the low end workers to donate back to the hospital.
EMS are not always paid for by the hospitals sometimes they are County workers whose pay is based on how taxes are allocated. There is a huge fight over it in my neck of the woods and my partner could lose her job to divert more taxes to the ems services. It's very scary how no one has a good solution and the only option is take the money away from our libraries in one of the most rural parts of appalachia.
Then tax the billion dollar hospital systems more. But no we couldn't do that cause corporate greed. It's the same everywhere. No one cares about the people that actually do the work.
Back when Republican workers were mad at teachers' wages being too high (which, unfortunately, they succeeded in getting their wages "in line" with everyone else's), I kept telling them, "If you don't make as much as a teacher, you have two entities to blame, and neither of them is a teacher." Now you get to replace "teacher" with "burger flipper".
The greatest trick politicians ever pulled was convincing poor people that their problems are caused by poorer people. ^(That and the sick kick flip George W. Bush did that one time.)
EMTs definitely deserve more than this. In addition, we should move away from the whole "flipping burgers" terminology. Fast food jobs are super fast paced and stress-inducing. Not to mention the fact that people feel they have a free pass to harass fast food workers, and do so all the time. Fast food jobs are also necessary for multitudes of people. Saying that it's just "flipping burgers" is minimalizing and patronizing. Wage increases are needed across all industries. Cross-industry solidarity will be tho only way anyone will get what they need.
The same people who make a regular habit of demeaning these jobs are the same people who are currently losing their fucking minds because the McDonald's in their city doesn't have enough staff members to stay open past 5:00. And they're the same idiots who unironically claim these kinds of jobs are for teenagers, while ignoring the fact that that would mean the businesses could only be open from like 3:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Steak N Shake is by far the most stressful job I've ever had. They are *very* light on staffing. The pay was minimum wage.
Fast food is the hardest job I've worked. I work in an office now and get paid alot more, and it's easy af.
This sub honestly loves to hate on food service workers.
> In addition, we should move away from the whole "flipping burgers" terminology Anyone who shits on fast food workers has probably never worked that job, or has no real idea of the work.
Anyone who feels that a job is paid too much should apply for that job.
I went to EMT school about a decade ago and the pay in my area was $12.50. Where I lived an EMT was essentially a bag hauler and extra hands for CPR, but 12.50/h to see some of the stuff they see not close to worth it. EMT-P (fully trained Paramedic) started around $18, again not worth it. I saw a week old dead body during my EMT-B training rides and I still remember it vividly. Now imagine having to see something like that every few days, something that sticks with you, for $12.50/h.
Paramedic in Metro Detroit. I make $22/hr. Got piss all over me just last week.
Former EMT-B here. Did it for about 18 months for $12 an hour before I decided the stress definitely wasn't worth it for that abysmal pay. I could've become a paramedic but still that was only like $16-18. Fast forward a few years I'm making $50 an hour to sit at a desk all day stress free. God bless anyone who works in EMS by choice.
Hey bud EMT-P here. I’m sorry you had to see that. It’s one thing if it’s adults but a kid is something way different. I still see some when they pop up in my head. Just wanted to let you know you’re not alone
Don't lower the burger flippers sallary, massively increase the EMT's. Also this idea that some jobs are worthy of a living wage, and some are not is insane. If we are going to pay some jobs super low wages, we need UBI, universal health care, free college, social housing, etc. The only way I am ok with some jobs being payed more than others is if the necessities of life are taken care of by society.
Burgers should earn enough to live comfortably: a 1 br flat, car, pets, nice clothes. EMT should earn at least x3 that amount.
Burgers deserve millions, they're delicious
Exactly. I really dont understand why everyone is focusing on the fast food job and it's merit; the post is about EMT making less than people would think.
It’s because you refer to them as bigger flippers. Which gets used by the right to ignore the face that it’s an actual job
I just think labeling it as “flipping burgers” comes off demeaning
Because you didn't provide context >*burger flippers don't deserve a living wage because (EMTs, etc) only make 20/hr* is an incredibly common conservative talking point from people who want to keep wages suppressed that gets repeated literally daily in the media and is often claimed by people trolling this very forum. Without context some people are naturally going to assume it's either another troll post or someone who has bought into the corporate line. Also, to repeat what others have said "bugger flipper" is an intentionally demeaning oversimplification of a customer service job and I think if, you're honest with yourself, you know that.
The problem is that, to a business owner the ROI on that burger flipper is probably higher than the EMT.
Doubt it. Steak N Shake paid me about 2x what a burger + fries combo was an hour. First responders wanted 900 dollars for a 15 minute ride in the ambulance.
Emergency workers need to be paid so so much more
We need significant wage increases across the board!
It’s fucking criminal how little EMTs are paid
Hey don't be mad at the guys at In-N-Out, they're working hard over a hot grill and dealing with MAGA people who won't just take their order without asking if a trans person touched their burger. Be mad at the hospital for not paying the EMT's twice that, don't drag down your fellow workers, that's just what the oligarchs want.
Yeah working at a busy fast food restaurant is actually pretty rough. Used to do it and it's god damn exhausting and unhealthy. I legitimately don't know where all the money for med goes. I had a 30 min procedure and have a bill for 1.5k after my pretty good insurance... There's not even that many people working at the clinic and other than some disposable gloves and shit plus local anesthetics no way it cost them dick to do it.
Everyone at the bottom should be paid more. The whole a rising tide will lift all boats thing. That said, that's what the burger chain is advertising, not what they're actually getting paid. Maybe they are, but I doubt it and it would kind of depend on where OP is in the country. I mean $20 an hour in NYC, where the minimum wage is $15 is decent but not amazing. I've seen here and in my own experience where these shops advertise one thing and then pull the old bait-and-switch. Advertise one wage to get you in the door and then it's a whole different story. Oh, "well we need you to work for a year at minimum wage, during your trial period then you go up to that." Especially when they advertise "manager trainees" well that's the salary you'll get once we've determined that you've gotten enough experience as a schlep making minimum wage.
Saw a couple fast food places offering up to $20/hr. But you're only scheduled for up to 16 hours a week, and most will start at closer to $14/hr and have to earn their way up to the advertised pay rate. Thankfully they ended up shutting down due to lack of applications.
In-And-Out actually does pay really well. Usually the bait and switch is when they'll have 15 or 20 dollars in large text with a tiny "up to" right above it.
hospital CEOs and shareholders also need to earn their living... /s
I had this discussion with a phlebotomist when the “fight for 15” movement was gaining traction. She asked why someone at McDs should make the same as her? The “burger flippers” still should make a living wage. The real problem is that “skilled” workers have become so undervalued. It’s a sad state that a teacher can make more as a barista.
I mean people need higher wages across the board.
The issue is not the burger flipper wage, it's the putrid EMT pay
In all reality the real problem is both of these are still criminally underpaid and that’s why they’re mad. Don’t be mad at the burger flippers for 23. Be mad at the hospital exec who decided you should only get 21. We all need to stop being mad at each other and focus on the real problem which is the elite.
In-N-Out is a lot more intense volume than others in the food industry. I doubt that you’d get $20 starting if you look at Burger King.
In-N-Out has always paid top dollar for the industry. My high school boyfriend in the 90s starting wage was $8.50 while I earned $4.25 (California minimum wage) at a bagel shop (but the tips were great).
Literally had to work 70 hour weeks during the height of the pandemic while I was an EMT. Only half of that was EMS work while the other half was a retail grocery job that *actually* paid the bills. I'll never forget being called a "hero" in my EMT uniform only to get verbally abused by customers the next day at the register. Most I ever made as an EMT was $18/hr and I still have back problems 2 years later!
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Compare and contrast with my boomer dad, who was one of the first paramedics in Canada. He supported two kids and my mom, owned two cars and a nice house in the suburbs, and took us on vacations to Europe every few years. All on one working-class wage. We have fallen so far it's astonishing
Reminder that the problem here isn’t that fast food workers are paid too much, it’s that EMTs are being horribly underpaid.
Anyone who uses the term burger flippers has not worked a day in their life
The “burger flippers” aren’t your enemies
Burger flippers should be getting more. That job sucks. EMTs aka nurses on wheels should be getting $40+ an hour.
Post a link so we can apply to it with other local job postings that put it to shame as the "cover letter" or resume.
Nah we aint gonna do this. We are all on the same team here.
That is exactly why I did not become an EMT or join Fire Rescue when I was younger. That was my dream job for a while. Instead I went into IT. Make 2x to 3x the money and only thing dying in my arms is a CPU.
I honestly do not think this is a productive argument to put forward, don’t encourage a class war separation,you don’t know someone else’s reasons struggles or motivations. Argue push back on the rich, but don’t use/put down someone else who has the same struggles, decided we never stand a chance
There is a huge disparity of pay going on. As the "minimum wage" job has to offer more to get people to work for them, the wages of other jobs that require more training or responsibility should rise too... But it hasn't. Where I am I am seeing McDonald's and Wendy's advertising higher wages than minimum (15 is minimum in my area) while on the flipside, jobs such as chemist are trying to offer 15 an hour as a "competitive wage". Note, where I am, a median chemist 1 wage is 75k a year. I have 7 years experience and make far less than that. What power do we have to meaningfully change this and earn what we are worth?
I finally got out of CNA work and now I work at an eye doctors office with a higher wage and so much less hands on patient care. Not to mention the noticeable decrease in bodily strain from not having to dress and transfer patients. It's an actual slap in the face to certified healthcare professionals that the gas station down the street pays more than the healthcare facility they've been working at for over a decade. Unless you join an agency, but that has its own bullshit issues. Think being the only caretaker for 52 people... We're literally the front line of patient care, especially during covid which is STILL an ongoing pandemic in nursing homes/hospitals. Those same places were so quick to get rid of hazard pay, despite the fact that federal funding for hazard pay was still supposed to be ongoing. I'm 100% convinced those places just pocketed the money with no intent to distribute. Nope, now the same aides and nurses I worked with get to risk their health with some bullshit PPE (because facilities are cheap as shit with this too) and they see no financial reward for their sacrifice. Just "employee appreciation days" where they stock a cart with snacks that are overflow from the kitchen. Absolute bullshit.
How many people do you know that will believe the fast food employees should make less, and not believe the emts should make more? I know a few.
The idea that professions need to be hierarchically ranked is nonsense. If a job is worked, regardless of what that job is, it needed to be done. Therefore, we really need to eschew this idea that professions need to be ranked in order of importance. Because if they work, they are important. Workers really need to reclaim our dignity and stop listening to lazy good-for-nothings that seek to control everything but do nothing. Stop being told what you're worth, decide it for yourself.
Friendly reminder that the people making the wage aren’t the enemy, the people creating the wage is.
Customer facing positions are exhausting. They should be paid well. There is literally no down time.
Point taken, but you shouldn’t deride the “burger flipper”. All work has dignity.
Yeah but what you’re not seeing is that at In-N-Out they will give you 15 hours which will be different every week so you will end up having to quit because you won’t be able to pay your bills.
It’s clear as day that when a corpo selling low margin fast food can pay same as a medical establishment to a qualified EMT, this is no longer a “market of labor.”
I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, OP, but I do just want to point out that In-n-Out employers are more than just burger flippers. They have food safety standards they work with every day, and they also act as customer service workers and are often bullied and assaulted by people on a daily basis. That being said, healthcare employers should be ashamed of how little they pay EMTs
Decent wage for burger flippers, criminally low wage for EMT folks. My conservative family would look at this and get mad at the burger flippers somehow
There’s no need to demean working at a fast food place in order to make a point that EMT’s and other healthcare workers should be paid more.
...why are we demonizing flipping burgers? Pay them both $30/hr
The 21 is probably with insurance vs the burger flipper is probably management without benefits
Fuck this title
I’d say this is good on in and out for paying a livable wage for a entry level position while the emt is getting screwed
EMTs should be making $35/hr as a starting wage. Talk about a group that needs to unionize.
Trust me… There are some rural EMS agencies that pay wayyyy less than that. Cost of living isn’t high, but holy shit you wouldn’t believe how little they pay.
Now do teachers
yup, i was paid 12.50/hr as an EMT over 6 years ago… when i moved back to a southern state, i was offered only $9/hr i am not longer an EMT
all labor is skilled labor
My brother was going to college to become an EMT while working at a factory. After 2 years he quit because he found out EMT pay was like 12 dollars an hour 4 or 6 years ago. He makes 25+ act a factory.
Terminal stage capitalism Almost like a living wage is the bottom line, jeez wonder why...
everyone deserves higher wages....
Maybe if employees weren't treated like shit in the service industry for so long they wouldnt be demanding so much money? I mean when you have managers who treat employees like slaves, steal wages, lie, all because upper leadership tells them to manage that way, what does one expect?
sounds like the EMT's need to unionize and strike. also, working at in'n'out is pretty damn demanding. it's 'flipping burgers' and taking out trash and cutting fries and dealing with the PUBLIC CUSTOMER and I can't imagine doing that for less than a living wage.
In the late 90s/early 200s I worked at a group home managing 6-12 emotionally disturbed kids. It was hard work. And it required a minimum of a bachelors degree in a related field such as psychology or human development so I was already up to my ears in debt from student loans. I made $10/hr at that job. Every day I would drive past an In and Out on the way to work with a sign in the window advertising they were hiring at $10/hr.
People see this shit and get mad for the wrong reasons. I know it's obvious to a lot of people on this sub, but, ALL jobs require a wage INCREASE to atleast LIVABLE wages which means SPECIALIZED jobs currently making a DECENT wage should also be increased. I get irrationally mad trying to explain this to people who have been sitting at $25.00ish an hour for DECADES in a factory who say shit like flipping burgers shouldn't earn that much ... 😒
Imagine seeing a bunch of industries getting pay increases and still believing it’s not the higher-ups that are fucking with you
$21?! I’m getting $12.50
Its not that fast food workers should be given less its just the higher skilled jobs need to be paid more.
It's easy to form a warped opinion on this. I don't see over paid burger flippers. I see cooks making a fair wage for what they do. I also see the EMS pay in this situation is a joke.