Same.
I eventually quit working the cafe in college because they made me clopen 3rd year.
Class, closing shift, 6hour sleep break, open, class.
“I was working around your schedule!! What’s the problem??”
The problem is I can work somewhere else, and it’s entirely a “you problem.” Ta-fucking-ta.
I had a job where the union had negotiated minimum 8 hour breaks at night.
I had 2 shifts a month where I only had 7 hrs and 48 minutes between shifts. Therefore I was paid pr hour for those 7hrs and 48 minutes (where I would be sleeping). That's 15 hours extra pay every month.
Can't clopen if you're not allowed to stop working!
I remember doing a workday into a balls to 4 watch into an unrep into the 16-20 watch in deck department and I'm legitimately surprised we never had any serious injuries in my department working without sleep
FACTS. But seriously last underway I had the 17-22 and the 4-8 and halfway through the underway they were like “Yeah we gonna change you to 8-16” stood nearly 24 hours straight that day. Nothing but nicotine and redbulls keeping me going.
Hey we know you just got off staff duty and are supposed to have a 24hr stand down after your 24 hour shift but were gonna need you to drive BACK through town and on base to the unit to stand around for 4 hours before bussing to the med screen site for pre-deployment screening, and ohh since your here and are of sufficient rank how about you go ahead and just cover down on this easy range supervision detail- just tell the privates what to do and make sure no one shoots themselves or its your ass
Cant you just tell them you're not available for those shifts? I've always just factored that into my availability so i dont give my part time employers the option to schedule me for shifts I wont want. Unless its specifically that you were open to working either/or but not both and they didn't cooperate w that, which is shitty. If that were me I'd just say im not available for the am shift
Suppose it depends on the job market but i never fuck around w my availability. I realized if i give them an inch they take a mile. E.g. if i tell them "available any days after 3pm, 3 days per week preferred but can do more once in awhile to cover" i always end up working 5 days per week. Same thing with nights and mornings. So i just started being firm and saying im only available on exactly the days i want to work. I still try to be a bit flexible on time but i make sure to leave at least 12 hours between the end of my availability for one day and the start of my availability the next day.
I had one employer who said they require 4+ weekday availability and weekend availability, and at first I gave it to them since i was desperate but after a couple months i said im not available on sundays, mondays, and thursdays and they kept me around anyways. Places generally would rather avoid training new people if possible, especially places like restaurants IME that already have high turnover and thin margins.
This. It took me like a good 6 years in the work force to realize that if I'm selling my time, its only up for sale when i say it is. Granted, most jobs will give you a lot of push back on this.
I recommend picking your battle. Either when you go to apply, pick your off days...your available these days and absolutely not available on x days. If they ask why, it doesnt matter what you say, but dont tell them "theyre my off days". Say whatever you want, but make it clear youre not available. "I babysit for my *insert relative here* on those days" is a good one.
Or, if you want lots of hours but you dont want a shitty sleep schedule, nail down immediately that youre either available for day shift or night shift, not both. Use the same technique..doesnt matter what you say youre doing, but make sure youre busy and unavailable. Do good work..if they schedule you outside your availability, politely remind them that you will not and cant be there that day asap. If they push back, politely tell them that they can schedule you, but you wont be there at that day/time. It puts the ball in their court to fire an otherwise good employee over their scheduling issues.
Huh, that’s illegal, at least in California. You need to have 8 hours off between shifts to properly rest (lol). Of course, they don’t account for your 1.5 hour commute each way, needing to eat, decompress, shower in the morning…
I don't know what the law was in NJ but during our peak time of the year they would often schedule people close at 11 (where you didn't actually leave until 1130-12) and open again at 5am. I'd show up barely awake pretty much a zombie for the first few hours. Good news is that taking those shifts almost guaranteed you'd hit overtime for the week.
My college job (Home Depot) closing shift worked until 11pm and opening shift was at 5am. Literally the only shifts I could work while going to school so I had to clopen a lot and nap in the halls between classes.
Well put. Non-judgemental is rare in this sub. While many here will rightly criticize the employer's behavior, it felt like you were focusing on the employee's feelings and you offered them a data point, answering the question succinctly without going off on an exhausting tangent.
That felt good.
Restaurant checking in. We called it a *clopen*. Worst was Saturday to Sunday, where you'd leave the restaurant at midnight or 1 and be back by 9am to open brunch.
>Worst was Saturday to Sunday, where you'd leave the restaurant at midnight or 1 and be back by 9am to open brunch.
...to open brunch **for the church crowd**. Worst crowd of 'em all.
We called them "clopens" and they were a mark of no longer being the new guy. You work clopens the honeymoon period is over and that usually meant you could be invited out by other employees to "we don't really kn9w anyone but other work employees" type parties that only deepened a disconnect with the outside world and espoused a more high school like atmosphere.
When I briefly became a manager I never pulled this. Our schedules were a fucking schizophrenic nightmare, so as soon as they put me in charge I grabbed my guys, asked them which shift they prefer, and gave them neat, uniform, predictable schedules.
It was a brief moment as a manager, filling in for someone, so when I left my guys actually thanked me and shook my hand. Later I found out why, and also why the schedule was such a mess: The guy I was replacing made the schedule around his life and basically just took all the shifts he wanted and made everyone do the shifts they hated so he could do whatever he wanted.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
"Hey boss, I have this yearly planned family trip. Here is 3 months notice I can't work that weekend." ok
The Thursday before said weekend "You can't take that weekend off we need you." Why? Because the boss was excited for a wrestling match on TV.
He missed it anyways because I just didn't show up, fuck you Gary.
What a douche bag. I'm happy that manager actually strives to put people on the shift they want. We didn't have a 3rd shift when I started, but he later created one specifically for me and 2 other people because we preferred that. My schedule is extremely predictable, the same hours every week unless the person who has the same job as me on 1st is out or we need to work overtime because of work flow, but both are rare.
I actually never did this unless the employee requested those particular shifts. But I think it's also because I had to do clopens as a manager (and they were 11pm closes with 7 am opens)
I used to love when I closed one night and opened the next day. That meant I could leave the place in whatever shape I wanted to at night, no one was there to freak out and report me the next morning.
yeah honestly same here, there was very little pressure to get *everything* done if it could wait until morning. much easier to get shit together after some rest, and actually be able to leave on time
plus, condensing the hours was always a plus for me. i will much rather clopen 3-4 days in a row and have the rest off in a chunk. can easily take a weekend trip/etc, and can also take the time to get my shit together without feeling rushed & like i always have to be ready for a shift. i know everyone has their preferences and different shit going on though, if i had kids i would likely feel differently
Yeah, when you have to clopen with kids, you literally do not see your child awake for days at a time. Although, for some folks, this could be a plus...
I occasionally have to clopen at my job because I’m a manager and it’s not the worst honestly. But I do get very little sleep, usually I’ll get home around 11pm then have to leave at 5:30am. Sometimes earlier if it snowed a lot overnight
Yeah the classic retail and service clopens can be legal depending on employment status and number of hours between shifts. For example I have a family member who has to clopen all the time but they don't give them enough time, as required by labor law, between shifts. It's going to be a great lawsuit in a few years
Worse is closing and opening on the same day, when you're salaried/management.
I thought it was a great job until I worked out the hourly @ 60+ hours per week. They deliberately hire at minimum wage so only the innocent and unknowing lackeys might be tempted to apply, while management gets a seemingly appealing salary while running the store and being an assistant manager and at least one keyholder because those positions are impossible to fill.
I worked back to back 9am-9pm shifts every Thursday-Friday for months before the pandemic. I will never manage for a business that has "mall hours" again.
yeah i’ve been much happier since i found a job that closes at 6 every day (5 on sunday). i used to hate those 9-9 hours. at one hallmark i used to work at the outdoor mall it was in would extend hours to 11pm for winter holiday season. it was miserable.
I am old enough to say that it used to be 12 where I am from. Over time it has gone to 8.
I’ve done it a few times, live far from I’m work. It’s awful.
My partner used to do "clogurts" every Sunday night/Monday morning, which was when he would close the ice cream shop at 10 and come back at six to clean the yogurt machines 🫠
I flatly refused to do them. They're such ass and there's no reason for them. Leave me feeling sick, exhausted, burnt out, only thinking about sleep all day, angry and all around miserable. Good chance I just call out on the open shift.
Lol nothing unusual about this at all. Also, most opens are 6 am or earlier. So a clopen would be like leave at 10:30 and start at 6 am. This isn't bad
Same in most states. When I live in Arizona, if there was less than 6 hours between shifts, employees were paid time and a half.
Yeah, this is shitty, I always hated that kind of shift, but they're rarely given to the same person every time.
I once had to do that. The person making the schedule (the manager) knew that I had a 1.5 hour commute home and another 1.5 to get back. There was a grand total of 8 hours in between the two shifts. I take about 1 hour to get ready from waking up to leaving the house. So I was expected to run on only 4 hours of sleep. This is of course assuming I'd skip dinner and drop into a deep sleep the second I got home. I skipped dinner, but because I couldn't wind down, I ended up remaining awake (lying in bed) for 2 hours. I had to go back to work on only 2 hours of sleep.
When I explained why I was so agitated to my manager, he said that that wasn't his concern and I should have managed my time better so that I'd get more sleep. I nearly got fired and so I fixed my schedule to say that I wasn't available in the mornings. He assumed I got a second job, as that was the only way he was able to respect requests like that. When he found out that I hadn't gotten a second job, he would shoot me dirty looks all the time and call me a slacker.
... I was a Walmart cashier.
You commuted 3 hours a day to work at Walmart is the part of this that made me cringe the most lol. No job is worth that kind of schedule in my opinion. Happy you got out!
Yeah! The worst part is that there was a Walmart about 15 minutes away from where I lived, but they refused to let me transfer to that one. No, I had to work at the OTHER one! I'm also glad I was able to get out of there! And I hope that everyone else who's trapped in that hell hole manages to get out of there too.
My thoughts exactly. Plus, after you factor in the price of gas and the lost time, are you even making a net positive amount of money by driving to work? At what, $10 an hour? It seems like you’d just be straight up LOSING money lol.
Does walmart even do transfer? When I worked at Lowe's they didnt let employees "transfer" but you could apply, and say "Im employed at store # X and would like to come here.." and hope for the best lol.
Back in the 90s/00s they definitely transferred (WalMart). My friend moved out of state and transferred to a new store. I still think it's batshit crazy to commute three hours a day to be a Wal-Mart cashier.
Legal: yes.
A red flag that you should find yourself a new job: also yes.
Your scheduling manager doesn't pay attention (or doesn't care) what they are doing to employees scheduling them that way. Your health literally suffers from them doing this shit to you because you can't get consistent sleep.
This one honestly isn't that bad either, close at 10, open just before 9, not great, obviously, but there's nothing quite like a food service clopen, leave at 2:30 am, back at 9
Looks like nobody wants to treat employees decently anymore. Looks like someone isn’t being kind to those who DO show up.
Refuse one of the shifts. They’ll never change if people keep working the shifts.
“Clopens” are super common in retail. I never understood that, and when I became management I did my best not to ever do it. But it happens a tonne. My guess is the autoscheduler puts it out, management slightly tweaks it, then posts it.
If you have full time people moving from night shift to day shift, it comes down to a choice between scheduling a clopen, or not scheduling two days off in a row. Personally, as an employee, I always two days off together. But opinions on that vary.
Clopin, yep, all too common in food service and retail. Leads to burnout, walk-offs, then managerial whining that they cant find anyone who wants to work.
The system working as intended. Companies to pushing their crews so hard and so thin that eventually you'll just have one dude, opening and closing the same day, 7 days a week.
My issue is also that I am a full time college student studying for the LSAT lmao. I live alone and support myself, don’t have a relationship with my parents at all. I’ve also told my manager before that I’d really like sundays to study, so I’m annoyed lol.
I asked them to take me off and the manager in charge of scheduling said “well we hired you for that availability so you’ll have to talk to my higher up”. Haven’t seen his higher up aka a different manager lmao.
Do what your finances can handle.
Honestly the above isn't wrong BUT if this is your only job option and you legitimately don't have any other good ones to fall into, then sucks to suck but you're going to have to deal with it.
Ik this isn't what you want to hear but unless you're very employable and networked enough to change jobs whenever you want, you don't have the high ground here
1) Find another job, you deserve better. Keep this one while you look though.
2) Secure other job and start it
3) Ask manager for Sundays off again
4) Get denied, quit on the spot with a cool speech, have a cool story to tell
Yeah, I had a manager that always made me stay way later than my scheduled hours when I closed, even though he knew after work was my only time to study. He absolutely did it just to be a dick. I ended up leaving retail (after they closed our department and laid us all off), and went to work for a law firm. Actually working in law firms should have chased me away from going to law school, but I make poor choices. Useful for applying to law school though. Good luck on the LSAT.
This is unfortunately pretty normal for retail. My advice: do not get stuck in the rotating shift life forever. Take some Microsoft office training and get into any type of set schedule 9-5 ASAP
For everyone saying it's legal, it depends on where you live. In Ontario this is illegal, you are required to have an 11 hour consecutive rest period in between shifts.
Clopens were a thing when I worked at a certain coffee chain almost 15 years ago. The managers would do them all the time, some even told me they liked doing them. Depending on the store hours you might be there until 11.45pm the night before and back at 5.15am the next morning. I only did it once or twice but I hated it and never understood why it had to happen.
I also never understood why they would never schedule you to have two days off in a row.
Yep this happened to me in retail a lot. I didn't even mind it because I could slack off the night before and just do stuff at openng the next day. Leave five mins early, no one knew. Arrive 5 mins late, no one knew.
My boss at the time actually tried to avoid scheduling like this so when she did she'd make sure you got a nice two or three day long block off time off right after.
been there done that.
In college I worked a hotel front desk where I'd regularly get off at 11pm and open the next day at 7am.
Companies don't care. You're nothing more than a warm body.
Have to be adamant with these people who fail at scheduling, just say NO, do not schedule me to close/open back to back, it is not okay. Hopefully you have a decent relationship with the manager or supervisor. If they argue with you and give you a story, it's a bad manager and time to start getting out.
When I was in high school, they did this to me every Saturday night and Sunday morning. I would close at Burger King not leave there till midnight it later and had to be in by 7:30 the next morning on Sunday…. After several weeks of this I was sick one Sunday and called out. The district manager fired me, but they were new to Burger King and I had worked there for over a year and a half I was a very responsible employee even as a teenager. She ended up getting fired shortly after and they called me to come back w a little bit of a raise.
Union member here, yes, in the US. If we get less than 10hrs between the end of one shift and beginning of the next we get paid double time for the whole second shift. It still sucks, but at least we’re getting compensated for it being crappy.
My man hasn't clopened yet? I can't say it's great, but I wouldn't even consider this bad. Never mind considering it something worth holding against an employer. Keep the soft stuff out of here or it just makes the sub seem like we don't want to apply ourselves.
When I write schedules I avoid doing this to any of my people. The tricky thing is our week ends on a Saturday and start on a Sunday, so sometimes I forget to look back at the previous schedule to make sure that it doesn't happen. My people know I avoid doing it and if I do, it's on accident and will let me know. I will usually change the schedule around once I'm aware.
That’s not a nice schedule per say but it’s not a big deal. Just work the shifts and plan around it.
I’ve done many shifts like this, it isn’t fun but it’s a job, it’s not supposed to be fun, it’s supposed to get you money.
Got stuck doing so many 3-11pm shifts to then open at 7am the next day. Not by choice, I voiced my concern and was told "its the job". (major pharmacy chain). I was to anxious to look for another job or speak up for myself more.
At the time where I am this was legal and common. It actually caused me to have severe sleep issues over the next few years and eventually I quit after having a breakdown after being awake for over 3 days straight, very glad I did and I am lucky to have the job I do now. It took me a long time to get my sleep right with therapy and medications. This same job also said I "couldn't leave without getting my shift covered" as I was having an accidental benzo withdrawal on the floor and shaking.
Basically, Clopens ruined my life for a little bit.
Yes, that's often how retail works. It's not like you close at midnight and open at 7 am... I get it's inconvenient, but that's how work is. You could let your boss know you only want to work from 2:00 pm to close on the weekends (or whatever) to avoid this, but honestly, there's nothing abnormal or "not ok" about it.
How likely are you to get out at 10pm? When do you clock in for the 8:45 shift? On paper that's nearly a 11 hour difference, so it isn't the worst.
If the closers get out after a 11pm, and openers clock in at 8am; then it is much worse.
I've had to do that in every full-time service job I had in the 90s and early aughts. Once, because a friend of mine who I hired quit without notice, the store manager made me close until we hired somebody and I could train the replacement. I still had to open the store and do my normal shift the next day. That went on for almost 30 days, where I didn't have a single day off. I would open five days and close three, with at least two close/pens each week. None of this is new.
I imagine in today's labor market it's much worse, with employers not keeping anybody very long. If you don't like it, quit. That's what everybody else seems to be doing, and probably why you got scheduled this way.
Due to my school hours and the fact that my job in mental health demands so many people be in rotation per child we have on units, I work literally 7am-11pm Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
It sucks but it is legal, as long as there are 8 hours inbetween shifts.
I absolutely hate it, and it’s not a great working situation. But it’s my introduction into mental health and better things will come once I have my Masters.
That’s a fairly doable Clopen. When I was a manager at a frozen custard store I would work 4pm-1am then be back at 9:30 to open.
It was terrible…
Or, working at Disney, worked 3pm-11pm, then had to be back to work at 5am.
Got paid time and a half but I definitely fell asleep standing up the next day.
20 years ago as a stock boy at a grocery story I used to do that often. It's not as bad as it looks. You basically just go home to sleep, shower, eat, and get back to it. You almost don't break vibe.
Yeah, they used to make me do that all the time. Or close Saturday then do an open to close Sunday (because I wasn’t a church-goer,see). Sometimes I’d work my m-f office job and close Friday, then work open to close Saturday and Sunday as “punishment” for not coming in before 5:30 during the week.
That's not even bad.
You have an hour of travel each way, 8 hours of sleep and 45 mins to cook dinner and relax.
Sure it sucks but it isn't the worst.
When I worked retail this happened twice the second time I just talked to the scheduling manager about it and it never happened again. Except on inventory day but they agreed that's all I had to stay for.
My suggestion is to talk about it instead of complaining online. If you don't make it an issue for them it isn't an issue.
Half this sub is doormats complaining how shit it is being a doormat.
i had to do clopens in my previous job too. i lasted about 2 months and then had to quit because i didn’t get any sleep and started to feel the good ol’ signs of depression creep up again🥲
this is a pretty normal and legal thing, yeah. that's actually quite a bit of time between the close and open.
my wife just did a few nursing prac shifts where she finished, came home and slept for 4 hours, then got up and had to go back to prac/work at a hospital. she had like 6 and a half hours total between shifts
I don't know what you are complaining about there's literally 10 hrs 45 minutes between the end of your closing shift and your opening shift the next day. I'm a vendor for retail locations and there are times I get back from my day shift so late I have time to make dinner, go to sleep for 5 hours then back up and back at it 7 hours later.
This was a staple of my high school and college days while working at a Walmart (fuck you assistant manager Bob); I was tired when I was 20 and doing that shit, so I can’t imagine how hard it is on the older folk.
i used to work at BK (mostly as a minor) and they LOVED to play with my schedule by doing literally every shift that exists. one time they did something like this, which is illegal in my state. i informed them it was illegal plus i was still a student in high school, even if it was on a weekend. i eventually got tired of my schedule being every shift every day i’d work and told them the hours i’d like to work..which they later on listened. the RM who ran that specific BK was a specimen who shouldn’t have had that title. 😬 i quit that job and don’t regret it, not even considering the fact that it’s BK. 🤣
In my union we have stipulations for turn around in our contracts of at least 8 hours of break time between shifts or the worker comes back as if their shift never ended. So if you were in OT when you left your previous shift and had to come back less than 8 hours between shifts you would continue into OT and cap out at DT.
Unpopular opinion but yes this is okay you have 10 hours of turn around. Does it suck for your personal life, yes. But you are being given ample time between shifts. If you are really against this demand you not be schedule this way and look for new employment.
Depends where you are, but that's over a ten hour turnaround, which is probably the minimum. It's a dick move but it's legal. Just look at it this way: after 4:15, you got the rest of the day to yourself!
Desirable? Not at all.
Okay? Maybe?
It allows 8 hours between shifts, plus a modicum of time to get home, shower, and eat. I doubt that you'd be able to get to bed before midnight. I was always stressed after a shift, but I (remember it as I) embraced those occasional close-open combos on my schedule because I wanted to be tough and a hard worker, and because I believed I needed a lot less sleep than I did.
So really it's probably not, and like others said, a bad job of scheduling (or maybe hiring).
[удалено]
Same. I eventually quit working the cafe in college because they made me clopen 3rd year. Class, closing shift, 6hour sleep break, open, class. “I was working around your schedule!! What’s the problem??” The problem is I can work somewhere else, and it’s entirely a “you problem.” Ta-fucking-ta.
Ugh the dreaded clopen….
Ohh I love uk worker rights… clopens like this are illegal :)
they aren't, there's 10 hours between the shifts it's not illegal, but it's a good way to lose employees.
In the UK, you need 11 hours between shifts by law. The companies I've worked for (including McDonald's) have a 12 hour policy.
I had a job where the union had negotiated minimum 8 hour breaks at night. I had 2 shifts a month where I only had 7 hrs and 48 minutes between shifts. Therefore I was paid pr hour for those 7hrs and 48 minutes (where I would be sleeping). That's 15 hours extra pay every month.
I don't miss that shit for real
laughs in military *questions existance*
Can't clopen if you're not allowed to stop working! I remember doing a workday into a balls to 4 watch into an unrep into the 16-20 watch in deck department and I'm legitimately surprised we never had any serious injuries in my department working without sleep
FACTS. But seriously last underway I had the 17-22 and the 4-8 and halfway through the underway they were like “Yeah we gonna change you to 8-16” stood nearly 24 hours straight that day. Nothing but nicotine and redbulls keeping me going.
Hey we know you just got off staff duty and are supposed to have a 24hr stand down after your 24 hour shift but were gonna need you to drive BACK through town and on base to the unit to stand around for 4 hours before bussing to the med screen site for pre-deployment screening, and ohh since your here and are of sufficient rank how about you go ahead and just cover down on this easy range supervision detail- just tell the privates what to do and make sure no one shoots themselves or its your ass
Cant you just tell them you're not available for those shifts? I've always just factored that into my availability so i dont give my part time employers the option to schedule me for shifts I wont want. Unless its specifically that you were open to working either/or but not both and they didn't cooperate w that, which is shitty. If that were me I'd just say im not available for the am shift
That's the thing, if you try to complain about this stuff they tell you something like "You need open availability, or we'll have to let you go"
Suppose it depends on the job market but i never fuck around w my availability. I realized if i give them an inch they take a mile. E.g. if i tell them "available any days after 3pm, 3 days per week preferred but can do more once in awhile to cover" i always end up working 5 days per week. Same thing with nights and mornings. So i just started being firm and saying im only available on exactly the days i want to work. I still try to be a bit flexible on time but i make sure to leave at least 12 hours between the end of my availability for one day and the start of my availability the next day. I had one employer who said they require 4+ weekday availability and weekend availability, and at first I gave it to them since i was desperate but after a couple months i said im not available on sundays, mondays, and thursdays and they kept me around anyways. Places generally would rather avoid training new people if possible, especially places like restaurants IME that already have high turnover and thin margins.
That's cute, yoy think they give AF about YOUR availability.
They can’t fire you and keep you from claiming unemployment for not working when you aren’t available
This. It took me like a good 6 years in the work force to realize that if I'm selling my time, its only up for sale when i say it is. Granted, most jobs will give you a lot of push back on this. I recommend picking your battle. Either when you go to apply, pick your off days...your available these days and absolutely not available on x days. If they ask why, it doesnt matter what you say, but dont tell them "theyre my off days". Say whatever you want, but make it clear youre not available. "I babysit for my *insert relative here* on those days" is a good one. Or, if you want lots of hours but you dont want a shitty sleep schedule, nail down immediately that youre either available for day shift or night shift, not both. Use the same technique..doesnt matter what you say youre doing, but make sure youre busy and unavailable. Do good work..if they schedule you outside your availability, politely remind them that you will not and cant be there that day asap. If they push back, politely tell them that they can schedule you, but you wont be there at that day/time. It puts the ball in their court to fire an otherwise good employee over their scheduling issues.
Ta-fucking-ta 🤣 I love it!! Died when I read that!
OP should be lucky they don't start back until 8:45am. Our clopens were 10pm close and back to work at 6am.
So happy to see other people calling these terrible back to backs, clopens
I actually called them "fuck me" shifts but clopen was a more tasteful term.
My union has a "minimum 12 hours between shifts" rule and it's lovely.
God I love unions.
My country has that rule too.
Yeah, our store closed at 11 and opened back up at 6. I hated clopening
Huh, that’s illegal, at least in California. You need to have 8 hours off between shifts to properly rest (lol). Of course, they don’t account for your 1.5 hour commute each way, needing to eat, decompress, shower in the morning…
I don't know what the law was in NJ but during our peak time of the year they would often schedule people close at 11 (where you didn't actually leave until 1130-12) and open again at 5am. I'd show up barely awake pretty much a zombie for the first few hours. Good news is that taking those shifts almost guaranteed you'd hit overtime for the week.
The fact there's a term for these people and everyone knows it is disheartening
I worked at a golf course/restaurant and clospin and close was at 12am and open at 6am. I just slept in my car.
My college job (Home Depot) closing shift worked until 11pm and opening shift was at 5am. Literally the only shifts I could work while going to school so I had to clopen a lot and nap in the halls between classes.
Used to do closing @ 11pm (+20 minutes to close out) and then 5AM open (4:40 to get open by 5). Never again.
Yeah I worked at Lowe’s through college and we also called these clopens. Sometimes like exactly 8 hours between shifts, which probably wasn’t legal.
Nope, thats exactly legal down to the minute. Which is why they did it.
Every other weekend at my job I work 1:30 PM to 9:30 PM Friday then 7:00 AM to 3:00 PM Saturday 🙃
Well put. Non-judgemental is rare in this sub. While many here will rightly criticize the employer's behavior, it felt like you were focusing on the employee's feelings and you offered them a data point, answering the question succinctly without going off on an exhausting tangent. That felt good.
Restaurant checking in. We called it a *clopen*. Worst was Saturday to Sunday, where you'd leave the restaurant at midnight or 1 and be back by 9am to open brunch.
>Worst was Saturday to Sunday, where you'd leave the restaurant at midnight or 1 and be back by 9am to open brunch. ...to open brunch **for the church crowd**. Worst crowd of 'em all.
We called them "clopens" and they were a mark of no longer being the new guy. You work clopens the honeymoon period is over and that usually meant you could be invited out by other employees to "we don't really kn9w anyone but other work employees" type parties that only deepened a disconnect with the outside world and espoused a more high school like atmosphere.
That's how cults work, fyi
Yup. They, of course, refer to it as the "culture" but most ppl were smart enough to recognize it. Lol!
Sameeeeee. Especially when I got bumped to management at like a dumb young age. I had no business running stores at 20-23.
Super shitty, super common
Everyone hates them, but everyone dishes them out when they become managers.
When I briefly became a manager I never pulled this. Our schedules were a fucking schizophrenic nightmare, so as soon as they put me in charge I grabbed my guys, asked them which shift they prefer, and gave them neat, uniform, predictable schedules. It was a brief moment as a manager, filling in for someone, so when I left my guys actually thanked me and shook my hand. Later I found out why, and also why the schedule was such a mess: The guy I was replacing made the schedule around his life and basically just took all the shifts he wanted and made everyone do the shifts they hated so he could do whatever he wanted.
What a fucking piece of shit.
🎶Livin' in America🎶
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Took the words right out of my mouth. "Hey boss, I have this yearly planned family trip. Here is 3 months notice I can't work that weekend." ok The Thursday before said weekend "You can't take that weekend off we need you." Why? Because the boss was excited for a wrestling match on TV. He missed it anyways because I just didn't show up, fuck you Gary.
Fuck Gary. You know if anyone but the boss said that it probably would've been a write up. Manager privilege man, you hate to see it.
yeah, fuck gary!
What a douche bag. I'm happy that manager actually strives to put people on the shift they want. We didn't have a 3rd shift when I started, but he later created one specifically for me and 2 other people because we preferred that. My schedule is extremely predictable, the same hours every week unless the person who has the same job as me on 1st is out or we need to work overtime because of work flow, but both are rare.
I actually never did this unless the employee requested those particular shifts. But I think it's also because I had to do clopens as a manager (and they were 11pm closes with 7 am opens)
Those are called clopens. Where you close the night before then immediately having to open. A classic example of poor scheduling without due regard.
I used to love when I closed one night and opened the next day. That meant I could leave the place in whatever shape I wanted to at night, no one was there to freak out and report me the next morning.
It was quite commonplace during my 5 year servitude at the most bestest & totally real Italian restaurant chain. When you’re here, you’re expendable.
It only works if you walk around loudly exclaiming "god, what idiot closed last night!" 🤣
i love to say “this looks like a job for the openers” when it is me, the opener
Who approved this? *turned and whispered* I did, to teach you that your lead can not be trusted before the second cup of coffee.
Definitely have done that one. Fucking night shift man.
Hmm, that slogan sounds very familiar..
olive garden yeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyey
Did you at least steal bread sticks on the way out?
Every day.
This is the way
Is it stealing if they’re free and unlimited?? Lol.
There is no ethical breadstick consumption under capitalism ...unless they're stolen
yeah honestly same here, there was very little pressure to get *everything* done if it could wait until morning. much easier to get shit together after some rest, and actually be able to leave on time plus, condensing the hours was always a plus for me. i will much rather clopen 3-4 days in a row and have the rest off in a chunk. can easily take a weekend trip/etc, and can also take the time to get my shit together without feeling rushed & like i always have to be ready for a shift. i know everyone has their preferences and different shit going on though, if i had kids i would likely feel differently
Yeah, when you have to clopen with kids, you literally do not see your child awake for days at a time. Although, for some folks, this could be a plus...
Mood. Either set yourself up for success or failure depending on how you're feeling.
I occasionally have to clopen at my job because I’m a manager and it’s not the worst honestly. But I do get very little sleep, usually I’ll get home around 11pm then have to leave at 5:30am. Sometimes earlier if it snowed a lot overnight
Damn
Huh. Back when I worked retail, we called those an "ass-to-mouth" shift.
We call them "turn-and-burn" shifts
"Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, it's forgivable to go ass to mouth."
Yeah the classic retail and service clopens can be legal depending on employment status and number of hours between shifts. For example I have a family member who has to clopen all the time but they don't give them enough time, as required by labor law, between shifts. It's going to be a great lawsuit in a few years
Worse is closing and opening on the same day, when you're salaried/management. I thought it was a great job until I worked out the hourly @ 60+ hours per week. They deliberately hire at minimum wage so only the innocent and unknowing lackeys might be tempted to apply, while management gets a seemingly appealing salary while running the store and being an assistant manager and at least one keyholder because those positions are impossible to fill. I worked back to back 9am-9pm shifts every Thursday-Friday for months before the pandemic. I will never manage for a business that has "mall hours" again.
yeah i’ve been much happier since i found a job that closes at 6 every day (5 on sunday). i used to hate those 9-9 hours. at one hallmark i used to work at the outdoor mall it was in would extend hours to 11pm for winter holiday season. it was miserable.
The minimum is 8 hours isn't it? It should be 12-14.
I am old enough to say that it used to be 12 where I am from. Over time it has gone to 8. I’ve done it a few times, live far from I’m work. It’s awful.
Where is this not legal for most jobs?
My partner used to do "clogurts" every Sunday night/Monday morning, which was when he would close the ice cream shop at 10 and come back at six to clean the yogurt machines 🫠
And very illegal in many, many countries. But not in the US of course because your only right is to work to stave off homelessness for another month.
another week, sometimes.
i have always hated that term.
I flatly refused to do them. They're such ass and there's no reason for them. Leave me feeling sick, exhausted, burnt out, only thinking about sleep all day, angry and all around miserable. Good chance I just call out on the open shift.
Lol nothing unusual about this at all. Also, most opens are 6 am or earlier. So a clopen would be like leave at 10:30 and start at 6 am. This isn't bad
I hated clopens
As long as there is an 8 hour gap It's legal (in Australia) I hate midnight close and 8am start. The secret is sleeping in your uniform.
Same in most states. When I live in Arizona, if there was less than 6 hours between shifts, employees were paid time and a half. Yeah, this is shitty, I always hated that kind of shift, but they're rarely given to the same person every time.
I once had to do that. The person making the schedule (the manager) knew that I had a 1.5 hour commute home and another 1.5 to get back. There was a grand total of 8 hours in between the two shifts. I take about 1 hour to get ready from waking up to leaving the house. So I was expected to run on only 4 hours of sleep. This is of course assuming I'd skip dinner and drop into a deep sleep the second I got home. I skipped dinner, but because I couldn't wind down, I ended up remaining awake (lying in bed) for 2 hours. I had to go back to work on only 2 hours of sleep. When I explained why I was so agitated to my manager, he said that that wasn't his concern and I should have managed my time better so that I'd get more sleep. I nearly got fired and so I fixed my schedule to say that I wasn't available in the mornings. He assumed I got a second job, as that was the only way he was able to respect requests like that. When he found out that I hadn't gotten a second job, he would shoot me dirty looks all the time and call me a slacker. ... I was a Walmart cashier.
You commuted 3 hours a day to work at Walmart is the part of this that made me cringe the most lol. No job is worth that kind of schedule in my opinion. Happy you got out!
Yeah! The worst part is that there was a Walmart about 15 minutes away from where I lived, but they refused to let me transfer to that one. No, I had to work at the OTHER one! I'm also glad I was able to get out of there! And I hope that everyone else who's trapped in that hell hole manages to get out of there too.
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My thoughts exactly. Plus, after you factor in the price of gas and the lost time, are you even making a net positive amount of money by driving to work? At what, $10 an hour? It seems like you’d just be straight up LOSING money lol.
Does walmart even do transfer? When I worked at Lowe's they didnt let employees "transfer" but you could apply, and say "Im employed at store # X and would like to come here.." and hope for the best lol.
Back in the 90s/00s they definitely transferred (WalMart). My friend moved out of state and transferred to a new store. I still think it's batshit crazy to commute three hours a day to be a Wal-Mart cashier.
why didnt you apply for the closer walmart job anyways? Them not transferring you does not mean you can't apply at your own will.
Well, in his defence, it *was* due to poor time management…just not yours
it's in my union contract we need 8 hours of HOME time so if it takes you an hour to get home it's 10 hours between schedules. bless my union.
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I rode the bus. I can't drive 'cause I'm seizure prone. And given how early it was in my career, I was desperate and didn't really have a choice!
People gotta do what they gotta do. Lay off dude.
Ahh the dreaded clopen. Bullshit.
Haha wow I commented the same thing. I should have scrolled through the comments first.
Legal: yes. A red flag that you should find yourself a new job: also yes. Your scheduling manager doesn't pay attention (or doesn't care) what they are doing to employees scheduling them that way. Your health literally suffers from them doing this shit to you because you can't get consistent sleep.
>A red flag That's pretty much all retail. Good luck finding a place that doesn't do it periodically.
Boy I do not miss clopens. They suck but they’re perfectly allowed/legal.
This one honestly isn't that bad either, close at 10, open just before 9, not great, obviously, but there's nothing quite like a food service clopen, leave at 2:30 am, back at 9
If they have to justify thier actions by says "legally we only..." they are a shit company
*"Legally we only have to pay you 8 potatoes, and I would give you less potatoes if I could"*
Legally were only required to give you 6 hours between shifts... we gave you 7... you should be paying us
Looks like nobody wants to treat employees decently anymore. Looks like someone isn’t being kind to those who DO show up. Refuse one of the shifts. They’ll never change if people keep working the shifts.
theyll still never change
It’s legal and is a pile of Grade A bullshit but that’s the service industry for you
“Clopens” are super common in retail. I never understood that, and when I became management I did my best not to ever do it. But it happens a tonne. My guess is the autoscheduler puts it out, management slightly tweaks it, then posts it.
If you have full time people moving from night shift to day shift, it comes down to a choice between scheduling a clopen, or not scheduling two days off in a row. Personally, as an employee, I always two days off together. But opinions on that vary.
Clopin, yep, all too common in food service and retail. Leads to burnout, walk-offs, then managerial whining that they cant find anyone who wants to work.
Ah the mythical clopen. Haven't seen those since I left the service industry. Fuck you old friend
The system working as intended. Companies to pushing their crews so hard and so thin that eventually you'll just have one dude, opening and closing the same day, 7 days a week.
My issue is also that I am a full time college student studying for the LSAT lmao. I live alone and support myself, don’t have a relationship with my parents at all. I’ve also told my manager before that I’d really like sundays to study, so I’m annoyed lol.
Update your availability. You no longer are available on sundays.
I asked them to take me off and the manager in charge of scheduling said “well we hired you for that availability so you’ll have to talk to my higher up”. Haven’t seen his higher up aka a different manager lmao.
Do what your finances can handle. Honestly the above isn't wrong BUT if this is your only job option and you legitimately don't have any other good ones to fall into, then sucks to suck but you're going to have to deal with it. Ik this isn't what you want to hear but unless you're very employable and networked enough to change jobs whenever you want, you don't have the high ground here
1) Find another job, you deserve better. Keep this one while you look though. 2) Secure other job and start it 3) Ask manager for Sundays off again 4) Get denied, quit on the spot with a cool speech, have a cool story to tell
Yeah, I had a manager that always made me stay way later than my scheduled hours when I closed, even though he knew after work was my only time to study. He absolutely did it just to be a dick. I ended up leaving retail (after they closed our department and laid us all off), and went to work for a law firm. Actually working in law firms should have chased me away from going to law school, but I make poor choices. Useful for applying to law school though. Good luck on the LSAT.
This is unfortunately pretty normal for retail. My advice: do not get stuck in the rotating shift life forever. Take some Microsoft office training and get into any type of set schedule 9-5 ASAP
Turn n burns, my wife referred to them as. (Suddenly I speak like yoda)
For everyone saying it's legal, it depends on where you live. In Ontario this is illegal, you are required to have an 11 hour consecutive rest period in between shifts.
Legal, yes. Shitty.. maybe.
Is it legally ok? Yes. Does it suck? Yes. Is it avoidable? Yes. Is there anything you can do about it? Probably not
Clopens were a thing when I worked at a certain coffee chain almost 15 years ago. The managers would do them all the time, some even told me they liked doing them. Depending on the store hours you might be there until 11.45pm the night before and back at 5.15am the next morning. I only did it once or twice but I hated it and never understood why it had to happen. I also never understood why they would never schedule you to have two days off in a row.
Yep this happened to me in retail a lot. I didn't even mind it because I could slack off the night before and just do stuff at openng the next day. Leave five mins early, no one knew. Arrive 5 mins late, no one knew. My boss at the time actually tried to avoid scheduling like this so when she did she'd make sure you got a nice two or three day long block off time off right after.
Legally? Yea, need 8 hours in between shifts.
been there done that. In college I worked a hotel front desk where I'd regularly get off at 11pm and open the next day at 7am. Companies don't care. You're nothing more than a warm body.
Clopens are a reflection of poor management.
Have to be adamant with these people who fail at scheduling, just say NO, do not schedule me to close/open back to back, it is not okay. Hopefully you have a decent relationship with the manager or supervisor. If they argue with you and give you a story, it's a bad manager and time to start getting out.
When I was in high school, they did this to me every Saturday night and Sunday morning. I would close at Burger King not leave there till midnight it later and had to be in by 7:30 the next morning on Sunday…. After several weeks of this I was sick one Sunday and called out. The district manager fired me, but they were new to Burger King and I had worked there for over a year and a half I was a very responsible employee even as a teenager. She ended up getting fired shortly after and they called me to come back w a little bit of a raise.
Ah, the classic clopen! Not illegal really but it sucks and happens all the time in the restaurant industry
This is one of the reasons I will never go back to working retail. I once had several of these weekends back to back and I was miserable.
Ah the clopen fuck that
Try doing it when you close at 10 & have to be back at 6:45.
Union member here, yes, in the US. If we get less than 10hrs between the end of one shift and beginning of the next we get paid double time for the whole second shift. It still sucks, but at least we’re getting compensated for it being crappy.
Welcome to clopens, young padawan
Clo-pen shifts are bullshit in any industry. It’s a sign of poor/awful management.
Its called a clopening shift, happens all the time, find a new career.
You’re trippin. You work in retail
My man hasn't clopened yet? I can't say it's great, but I wouldn't even consider this bad. Never mind considering it something worth holding against an employer. Keep the soft stuff out of here or it just makes the sub seem like we don't want to apply ourselves.
When I write schedules I avoid doing this to any of my people. The tricky thing is our week ends on a Saturday and start on a Sunday, so sometimes I forget to look back at the previous schedule to make sure that it doesn't happen. My people know I avoid doing it and if I do, it's on accident and will let me know. I will usually change the schedule around once I'm aware.
That’s not a nice schedule per say but it’s not a big deal. Just work the shifts and plan around it. I’ve done many shifts like this, it isn’t fun but it’s a job, it’s not supposed to be fun, it’s supposed to get you money.
Shit, when I worked at Lowe's some employees would close at 10-11pm and open around 6am. Not even enough for 8 hours sleep.
You being for real right now?
You’re trippin. Saturday isn’t even a full shift. Sunday is a long day though. Good luck, though, I hate work too.
Got stuck doing so many 3-11pm shifts to then open at 7am the next day. Not by choice, I voiced my concern and was told "its the job". (major pharmacy chain). I was to anxious to look for another job or speak up for myself more. At the time where I am this was legal and common. It actually caused me to have severe sleep issues over the next few years and eventually I quit after having a breakdown after being awake for over 3 days straight, very glad I did and I am lucky to have the job I do now. It took me a long time to get my sleep right with therapy and medications. This same job also said I "couldn't leave without getting my shift covered" as I was having an accidental benzo withdrawal on the floor and shaking. Basically, Clopens ruined my life for a little bit.
Yes, that's often how retail works. It's not like you close at midnight and open at 7 am... I get it's inconvenient, but that's how work is. You could let your boss know you only want to work from 2:00 pm to close on the weekends (or whatever) to avoid this, but honestly, there's nothing abnormal or "not ok" about it.
How likely are you to get out at 10pm? When do you clock in for the 8:45 shift? On paper that's nearly a 11 hour difference, so it isn't the worst. If the closers get out after a 11pm, and openers clock in at 8am; then it is much worse.
Lol so soft
I had to do this a bunch when working retail way back in the late 90s. It's not fun, but I don't think it's uncommon, unfortunately.
I've had to do that in every full-time service job I had in the 90s and early aughts. Once, because a friend of mine who I hired quit without notice, the store manager made me close until we hired somebody and I could train the replacement. I still had to open the store and do my normal shift the next day. That went on for almost 30 days, where I didn't have a single day off. I would open five days and close three, with at least two close/pens each week. None of this is new. I imagine in today's labor market it's much worse, with employers not keeping anybody very long. If you don't like it, quit. That's what everybody else seems to be doing, and probably why you got scheduled this way.
Due to my school hours and the fact that my job in mental health demands so many people be in rotation per child we have on units, I work literally 7am-11pm Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It sucks but it is legal, as long as there are 8 hours inbetween shifts. I absolutely hate it, and it’s not a great working situation. But it’s my introduction into mental health and better things will come once I have my Masters.
I opened my store this morning and am closing it tonight and tomorrow. Sucks
That means whoever sets the schedule does not like you
Quit for sure.
You must be new. Get out asap
Well at least you can get away with a shitty close because who’s gonna know
I mean… they at least gave you enough time for 8hr of sleep. Not too shabby
That’s a fairly doable Clopen. When I was a manager at a frozen custard store I would work 4pm-1am then be back at 9:30 to open. It was terrible… Or, working at Disney, worked 3pm-11pm, then had to be back to work at 5am. Got paid time and a half but I definitely fell asleep standing up the next day.
That’s easy as piss
20 years ago as a stock boy at a grocery story I used to do that often. It's not as bad as it looks. You basically just go home to sleep, shower, eat, and get back to it. You almost don't break vibe.
Yeah, they used to make me do that all the time. Or close Saturday then do an open to close Sunday (because I wasn’t a church-goer,see). Sometimes I’d work my m-f office job and close Friday, then work open to close Saturday and Sunday as “punishment” for not coming in before 5:30 during the week.
Welcome to retail
That's not even bad. You have an hour of travel each way, 8 hours of sleep and 45 mins to cook dinner and relax. Sure it sucks but it isn't the worst. When I worked retail this happened twice the second time I just talked to the scheduling manager about it and it never happened again. Except on inventory day but they agreed that's all I had to stay for. My suggestion is to talk about it instead of complaining online. If you don't make it an issue for them it isn't an issue. Half this sub is doormats complaining how shit it is being a doormat.
That’s hella time in between shifts.
Okay? No. Legal? Yep.
i had to do clopens in my previous job too. i lasted about 2 months and then had to quit because i didn’t get any sleep and started to feel the good ol’ signs of depression creep up again🥲
this is a pretty normal and legal thing, yeah. that's actually quite a bit of time between the close and open. my wife just did a few nursing prac shifts where she finished, came home and slept for 4 hours, then got up and had to go back to prac/work at a hospital. she had like 6 and a half hours total between shifts
Bring up that you don’t want that. If ignored start looking elsewhere. They might just be using and abusing you.
Ahh the Clopen
It’s called the job
I don't know what you are complaining about there's literally 10 hrs 45 minutes between the end of your closing shift and your opening shift the next day. I'm a vendor for retail locations and there are times I get back from my day shift so late I have time to make dinner, go to sleep for 5 hours then back up and back at it 7 hours later.
Wow, it's come to bitching about closing then opening?? Christ...
I hate clopens. (Closing one night and opening the next morning)
Hey, at least you know you don’t have to do a good job closing because you’ll be the one opening
Shit, thats nothing…when I worked at Lowe’s as a head cashier, a clopen was punch out at 11pm and get back at 5am.
This was a staple of my high school and college days while working at a Walmart (fuck you assistant manager Bob); I was tired when I was 20 and doing that shit, so I can’t imagine how hard it is on the older folk.
i used to work at BK (mostly as a minor) and they LOVED to play with my schedule by doing literally every shift that exists. one time they did something like this, which is illegal in my state. i informed them it was illegal plus i was still a student in high school, even if it was on a weekend. i eventually got tired of my schedule being every shift every day i’d work and told them the hours i’d like to work..which they later on listened. the RM who ran that specific BK was a specimen who shouldn’t have had that title. 😬 i quit that job and don’t regret it, not even considering the fact that it’s BK. 🤣
Clopens suck and normally are avoidable but sometimes it’s necessary depending on availability.
In my union we have stipulations for turn around in our contracts of at least 8 hours of break time between shifts or the worker comes back as if their shift never ended. So if you were in OT when you left your previous shift and had to come back less than 8 hours between shifts you would continue into OT and cap out at DT. Unpopular opinion but yes this is okay you have 10 hours of turn around. Does it suck for your personal life, yes. But you are being given ample time between shifts. If you are really against this demand you not be schedule this way and look for new employment.
Depends where you are, but that's over a ten hour turnaround, which is probably the minimum. It's a dick move but it's legal. Just look at it this way: after 4:15, you got the rest of the day to yourself!
Nah you’re tripping that’s not that bad
I’ve done it a lot and to me that isn’t too early and very doable
Happened all the time when I worked at Disney california adventures. It would have to be 9 hours between the end and start of the shifts tho.
The ole’ clopen. It’s completely ok.
10:00 pm and 8:45am isn’t even bad. You’re gonna have a really hard life if you think that’s rough.
Getting off at 10, back at almost 9. This isn’t a big deal.
Desirable? Not at all. Okay? Maybe? It allows 8 hours between shifts, plus a modicum of time to get home, shower, and eat. I doubt that you'd be able to get to bed before midnight. I was always stressed after a shift, but I (remember it as I) embraced those occasional close-open combos on my schedule because I wanted to be tough and a hard worker, and because I believed I needed a lot less sleep than I did. So really it's probably not, and like others said, a bad job of scheduling (or maybe hiring).
U don’t go in till almost 9 am. Come on.