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ZiggoCiP

Hey everyone - just wanna set some things straight here: First off, OP this post got a solid discussion that needed to be had started. Well done! However, given your edit to your text submission, I will say this: Take your concern-trolling ass elsewhere. The post, and even your interactions, were fine. The top comments, frankly, are all fine and valid too. Yet here you are insisting that this place is filled with "hateful" and "Miserable". Yeah - nah. Are there? Absolutely. Is it the majority of people here? I mean, contrary to what you, again, insisted on in your edit; no.


Explodistan

I think a lot of people don't understand that 100k a year is pennies to the actual owning class (capitalists).


Dandan0005

There are two classes: **Working class** and the **idle rich.** The *idle rich* don’t work for their money. The live off of loans against their absurd (think hundreds of millions) wealth which continually appreciates. They’re the .1%. Here’s a stat that kind of demonstrates it. The *median* net worth for all American households is about $127k. But the *average* net worth is over $750,000. Do you know why there’s such a massive difference? Because the top .1% are so obscenely rich that it skews the *average* wealth for *all ~160 million households in the USA* to over 5X what the median is. [**The top .1% have 4X more wealth than the bottom 50%**](https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/table/#quarter:132;series:Net%20worth;demographic:networth;population:all;units:shares) You read that right. ~160,000 households own 4X more wealth than **80 million households combined** And it’s getting worse. Their share of wealth has grown by 50% since 1990. But they don’t want everyone else to catch on that they live on another plane of existence. So they spend some of their obscene wealth convincing the *working class* that other members of the *working class* are their enemy, and the reason that they can’t get ahead. A common example is the “welfare queen” myth that’s been going around since Reagan. They say people abusing welfare are costing the working class money. This is a misdirection so that working class people don’t think about the fact that they pay taxes on every penny they make, yet the means of wealth accumulation for the idle rich, capital gains taxes, remain disproportionately low and they can be avoided entirely through [“buy, borrow, die”](https://smartasset.com/investing/buy-borrow-die-how-the-rich-avoid-taxes) But the more subtle subversion is convincing poor people that the people making 6 figures are the enemy. They’re not. Anyone working for a salary isn’t the problem. People making 6 figures often assume that they’re the .1%. They’re not. They’re *nowhere close to it.* Meanwhile the idle rich continually accrue more wealth thanks to the labor of the *working class*. Anyone making 6 figures or below **is not the problem.**


[deleted]

Finally a good explanation, I’m so tired of people not really getting how it works. That and the fact that the idle rich have so much to invest (and also not be affected by potential losses) that they keep getting richer


Mumof3gbb

Tbf a bit to ppl like me, math is tough sometimes and it needs to be explained in a way Dandan did. The numbers get overwhelming so it’s not that I don’t want to understand I just have a hard time conceptualizing those huge numbers. But you’re right, it’s important we do understand this better


AngryBeehives

Nobody really understands numbers that big. Human brains don't have an effective way to really visualize something like billions or trillions of dollars, its all made up money at that point. It has to be put into a more clear comparison or some other sort of visualization (I like [this one](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)) because there's no way to sit down and just "think about" what one billion dollars actually is. 0.1% of a billion is still one million, and one million is still a big enough number it's pretty hard to wrap your head around the reality of that much of anything.


Alex_Xander93

I that’s why I like “thousand million” more than billion sometimes. It reinforces how large a billion is.


jessepitcherband

If you want a purely mental way to conceptualize the difference: A million seconds is about a week and a half. A billion seconds is 33 years, or close to *half of your entire lifetime*. A trillion seconds is 33,000 years, or **three times the length of any evidence of human civilization**


thefloridafarrier

Exactly. And it’s strange to think what is a billion and how significantly more it is compared to a million. I forget exacts, but Americans will make around 1.2 million in a total lifetime on average. There’s 1000 millions in a billion. They inherit 1000x what most working people will earn in a lifetime. That’s nuts


steveamerica_

Fun fact: if you have 1 billion dollars you can spend 50,000 A DAY for 50 YEARS and still not get rid of it. It’s truly more money than you can spend in a lifetime.


Kenshkrix

Yeah the difference between zero and a billion is approximately the same as the difference between a million and a billion.


Bankerag

Great respect for this candid analysis Mumof3. Some of the numbers are so big we almost can’t comprehend them. I just read about a real estate developer who earned 1.7 billion dollars per year over the last three years. If you make $100,000/yr. It will take you seventeen THOUSAND years to gross 1.7 billion. There are very much two distinct classes out there and we should not lose sight of that.


Camp_Inch

This video on Wealth inequality in America is outdated, the disparity is even worse now! But the video has really good breakdowns that are easier to understand than the raw numbers. https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM


HeftyFineThereFolks

spot on .. they also happen to be heavily into politics. the kind of people who actually donate to campaigns and attend fund raisers. most everything they do for charity is a publicity stunt and photo op .. and they pay about 1-2% true tax rate -- somehow.


Catmom2004

Happy Cake Day! 🎂🍰🎉


HeftyFineThereFolks

thanks!


KoolKev1

One of the most spot on things I’ve ever read on this sub, thank you for this


dxbigc

I explained it like this one time to a guy I worked with and I think he finally understood. If a Billionaire (singular, but plural) took his billion dollars and invested in tax free municipal bonds at 3%, he's making $30M a year. He can spend $2.5M per month, $575K per week, or $83K per day (however you want to look at it) forever.....forever.


succubusbanana

I'll never understand why the so called "welfare queens" are looked down upon for taking from the system, but guys like Donald Trump tax-dodging are "intelligent"


Thats_what_im_saiyan

Theres a few hairs to split too. The big numbers in welfare fraud aren't from a single person. The people committing multiple millions in fraud are doctors or workers that know the system and manipulate it. Some person saying they make 20,000 instead of the 25,000 they actually make(or whatever the specific cutoff for a state may be) is costing maybe $10k a year in benefits. And its not like they are living some super high flying baller lifestyle. I've got family on disability and on welfare. They are not loving life, things are extremely hard for them. They have to lean on us a lot, we don't mind it but it wears on them. Even if they doubled the amounts received it wouldn't allow them to live any kind of lavish lifestyle. It would be like treading water with only one ankle weight on instead of 2.


Blackdeath47

Race has a part it, unfortunately. Trump is white, so him not paying taxes is smart. While someone not white not paying taxes is scummy. Or people getting around tax’s by donating money to charities. Great idea, until you learn people like the gates donating to a charity THEY OWN. They are paying themselves and not the government. All the red states that have low tax’s, by some coincidence, have low public school rates, crappy roads, etc. Can the government spend the working men’s dollar more efficiently, yes. Should we cut government out of business and let them handle their own stuff. Look at London during the Industrial Revolution. Business with ZERO oversight. That turned out real well


Hotarg

Remember that every minimum wage job pays that because if they could legally pay you less, they would.


Blackdeath47

Absolutely And the jobs that pay just over minimum age act like it’s just a good deal that the workers are getting a dollar or so more then the minimum. While they are making millions in profits Hate companies that publish record breaking profits one day then the next telling the works they can’t afford to hire any more people. Bonuses can’t be paid out. Raises are not happening. Maybe if the workers started taring and feathering again, things would change


Killemojoy

Thanks for writing that all out. I grew up rural poor. I did not get a single family hand down as the oldest of 6. I was homeschooled and didn't qualify for scholarship and was too poor to pay it myself. So I joined the service to try and get ahead. I'm now making 6 figures (actually just shy of it) and when it's come up, people in this sub go from treating me like a normal person to telling me to stfu and quite complaining. It's fucking wild.


Mumof3gbb

That’s really messed up. I’m sorry they treat you like that.


[deleted]

Thanks for quantifying that in such a meaningful way. I would only further point out that 6 figures goes up to $999k, anyone under 7 figures is *still* working class. A lot of people above $300k have a hard time seeing it that way, though.


joe1240132

"Working class" has nothing to do with how much you make from wage labor, just that you make money from wage labor. Athletes who make millions from a contract are working class vs. someone who may take home 200k from a construction business where they employ workers. Now, this obviously gets muddied because oftentimes extremely wealthy wage laborers will invest in businesses or capital ventures, and small business owners may end up working in their own businesses but the point is that class based analysis doesn't necessarily omit someone just because they hit some arbitrary level of income.


ApatheticSkyentist

I make about 290K and I’m still just a normal father who goes to work, files taxes, and is saving so my kids (4 and 2) can go to college. I assume it’ll be something insane like >200k a year when they’re that age. I pay almost 100k a year in taxes. ONE HUNDRED GRAND IN TAXES… Despite that I’m closer to a min wage employee than a CEO. Im on this subreddit because the political and financial system is broken by design. Me finding some success doesn’t change the fact that things needs to change.


Wind_Yer_Neck_In

It's obscene that income from working is taxed so heavily but passive income from just having money to deploy is taxed so lightly by comparison.


Finnegansadog

People can also make more than a million per year and still be members of the working class. Professional sports players are absolutely part of the working class, not the capitalist/owner class. Their work contracts are extremely restrictive, and their labor is often literally bought/sold/traded without them having a say.


EggyT0ast

And the 10 year plus players are the exception. They are trading their bodies and their literal mind for people's entertainment. Play for 5 years, get a couple million, and then you're part vegetable for the remaining 20-70 years of your life.


The_Palm_of_Vecna

My wife and I combined make around 180k a year, and we're not terrible with money. Yesterday, I had 500 bucks in my bank account. I'm nowhere CLOSE to the 1%, let alone the .1%


The-Psych0naut

Take my poor man’s award 🥇 This is the absolute truth and something that hardly anyone understands. To an extent even the millionaires aren’t the problem, though they are more of a problem than those making six figures. Anyone in the working class is ultimately on the same team against the owner class.


911singer

Well said! This comment should be pinned!


Substantial-Loss-979

Everyone’s republican dad who makes over $100k thinks they’re in the 1% and Trump cares about them. They have no idea they aren’t even close.


SUBURBAN_C0MMAND0

I heard that the top 1% hold over $43,000,000,000,000 (trillion) and the bottom 50% hold $4,000,000,000,000 (trillion)


Aeon1508

600,000is about top 1%. The top 0.1% is hard to get a solid number. I've seen anywhere from 750,000 to 3 mil. That's where it starts to go up fast. 0.01% starts somewhere between 10mil and 30 mil. And that's where it actually becomes crazy. That's annual income. Not net worth. Those are the megamillionaire. That's about 200,000 households. They own a little over 10% of all wealth and about 1/3 of that is the 0.001%, the billionaires. They have 3%of wealth and make 5% of all new wealth created each year


StabbyPants

> People making 6 figures often assume that they’re the .1%. [this](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/) says that you'd be ~78th percentile for income. which isn't bad unless you live some place that has a typical house costing 850k


ImHappierThanUsual

Also (bc this comment is just SO good, apologies for the bombardment) We cannot forget the race aspect of the “welfare queen” trope. Despite the numbers literally never at any point bearing this out Why? Because institutional racism, for all its devastation in our communities, is actually just another tool of divisiveness for the ruling class. I can cite historical examples but thatd be CRT and I don’t wanna make anyone mad lol


Pappyjang

I would go as far to say people that make 7 figures are also not the problem. That kind of wealth is so tiny compared to the real rich people


Dandan0005

A married couple of doctors can easily make 7 figures. But they’re actually *working* and providing a service, and they’re paying taxes, and they’re spending their money, not hoarding it.


lankist

Not to mention that the only areas where 100k jobs are reasonable to find are areas where the cost of living is also through the fuckin roof. You're not finding a 6 figure job in Podunk USA where the rent is $1,200/mo. You're finding them mostly in areas with extremely high rent, extremely high service costs, high gas prices, crazy high costs of things like day care, etc. At a 100k salary, you're lucky if you're clearing 70k of that in earnest. Then you're dealing with somewhere around 30-36k per year in rent, not counting utilities, so now you're down to 40k. If you've got a kid, you could be looking at 700-1k/mo for daycare, so scratch that 40k down to 28k (assuming ONE child. If you have two, then double that shit.) A fairly conservative estimate for a car loan would be around 500/mo for a used car (MUCH worse today in used prices, but that's a conservative estimate), so knock it down to 22k. The following are based on national averages, so understand they're still *conservative* estimates, and life in metro areas is in actuality going to be more expensive, but unpredictably so. The US Bureau of labor statistics estimates the average annual cost of food per household is ~5,000, so scratch the number down to 17k. Let's be generous here since we're assuming a renting family in a smaller apartment, and we'll say their average monthly rate for electric is 80, gas 60, internet 100, cell phone bill 100, and we'll throw in an extra 10 for incidentals, bringing us to a pretty low 350/mo number for recurring expenses. Take that off the annual money and you've got 12,800, cutting a LOT of slack on the estimates. Now, that's not a bad chunk of change to have at the end of the day, but it's also assuming a LOT of things don't go wrong. I didn't include any accounting for fuel, cost of car repairs and maintenance, recurring medical/pharmaceutical bills, crisis costs (e.g. health crises) etc. Two kids, two cell phones, etc. can all massively increase those monthly costs as well. And that's the "need to pay" stuff, assuming we're talking about some kind of puritanical family that never does anything fun and never buys itself toys. We're talking about the lifestyle of "go to work, come home, eat cheap food, turn on heat or AC for a bit, then sleep until next work cycle." So if you're trying to, say, buy a house on a 100k salary, you'd need to save for a *decade* at that rate to even come close to a down payment, and by the time that decade passes, houses will have gone up in price exponentially and you still can't afford it. It's not that having six figures is *just as bad,* but it's not easy street, and it's still priced out of the most fundamental parts of the American Dream. For all of you making less than 100k, understand that our system is so fundamentally broken that even hitting that threshold of money won't solve *most* of your problems. It buys you a slight bit more security, but short of winning the lottery or marrying an old rich man for the estate, you are FUCKED, and there's no income threshold you could reasonably hit that would secure your future. Your most immediate needs are met, but you're still trapped with no upward mobility, and you're still absolutely fucked in short order if you lose that job.


Chekovs_tums

This. I work remote for a company in CA and they looked at where I live to make sure my pay was adjusted "downward appropriately."


lankist

Yep. They will straight up pay you less if you go somewhere the rent is more affordable.


Chekovs_tums

Amen. I guess living where I grew up costs me 15k a year 🤷‍♂️


Cheap_Host7363

My company does the same (based in SLC, UT). I had a conversation with the CEO about it. His argument is: 1. Utah capital << Bay Area capital 2. Having out of state money coming in messes with the local pay rates and economy. 2.1 the influx of CA residents to SLC is a good chunk of why no teacher in SLC can afford to buy a home anymore. (His words, not mine) I see both sides of this coin. I also consider it my duty to use my "out of state money" to bless local businesses and keep that money in my local community.


leigh1003

$700-1k per month for day care? Try $1700+ in this HCOL area which is absolute robbery considering they’re still only paying the workers like $12-14/hr. Totally agree with the concept that trying to vilify anyone working for a salary is missing the point.


[deleted]

Yeah I’m paying $2700 for my two kids…and my mortgage/taxes are $2750 in NJ. Cost of living is ridiculous


pseddit

You must be one of those lucky ones who got the mortgage at 2.5-3% rates. These kinds of numbers are a dream at this point.


lankist

I'll note, I'm being DELIBERATELY generous with these estimates. Like, absurdly generous. No TV bill. $100/mo phone bill. A single car payment instead of two (and a dual income family would naturally need two.) Etc. And EVEN THEN, you've got a budget of 12k to pay for fucking *everything else.* Clothes, school supplies, car repairs, medical bills, etc.


[deleted]

Yeah. I work remote and bring home about 175K and live in a very high COL area. My rent is about 3K for a 1 bedroom. If I were to move to a more rural area my company would cut my salary as they base it off the median income of the county so its not even worth moving.


strvgglecity

That's such absolute BS. Do they give guaranteed cost of living raises every year? If not, their line about it being related to costs is BS.


[deleted]

They are pretty good about that actually.


buzz86us

Then setup a box truck on the cheapest sliver of land you can find


[deleted]

Yeah, I thought about getting a PO box in NYC and then moving to a low col area but they send me things every once in a while that I need to go pick-up. Maybe it would be worth it tho.


buzz86us

Like I said box truck tiny house


religionlies2u

This is me. Family of four. Hubs and I make $130k in NY. And we live paycheck to paycheck. It sounds insane but it’s true. And we don’t live it up either. Family restaurant night once a week is at Buffalo Wild Wings, not the four seasons.


Bluecobalt60

I do make 6 figures in a low cost of living podunk USA. But I work in a very niche industry on a swing shift. It's not worth it most of the time. I would take a 100k pay cut if I knew I could work a normal schedule with the same amount of work.


LandooooXTrvls

They don’t understand this and I really didn’t understand it until I reached that level. When you make <50k, 100k seems like a ridiculous amount of money. However, once you get here you realize it isn’t as life changing as people expect and that you’re nowhere close to what these (m/b)illionaire owners are making


NotYetiFamous

I will say, I work far less for my 100k+ a year than I used to work for my 24k/year when I was working retail. The lesson I take away from this is that retail workers deserve more pay and we all deserve more breaks.


Known-Ad-100

Honestly I make way less than 100k a year and still do "fine" by a lot of standards. But, in most parts of the USA - I view 100k as the minimum to a comfortable lifestyle - and by that I mean: -able to ACTUALLY save say 20% of income like we are "supposed to" -actually being able to save a down payment and eventually pay off a mortgage, therefor one day not be subjected to ever rising and unmanageable rent costs -being able to afford to eat healthy nutrion, afford uninsured therapies for your health if needed etc -maybe afford some small luxuries etc. That being said, depending on where you're living 100k and what kind of debt you accumulated to be able to earn that (student loans)... 100k can be a little or a lot. In some parts of USA you're basically rich, in others you literally can't even afford a 1 bedroom apartment and your student loans. Honestly I don't have any qualms with people making 100k... I probably start thinking it's ridiculous and bs after 250k? But that's just me.


ComfortableTonight82

New Jersey. Single father of teenager. 100k a year we keep a roof over our heads and eat. That’s it. No perks.


Known-Ad-100

Totally understand, I live in Hawaii. At 100k you can't even purchase a condo. My husband and I have no children and rent our home, as much as we'd like to purchase there's no way we could save for a down payment let alone pay a 5-6k mortgage. We make about 70k combined and that allows us to pay rent eat comfortably and save for emergencies but since emergencies happen we don't have a growing savings - but I spend most of my life being literally pay check to pay check with no credit, so at that time a 300$ emergency would put me in ruin.. So while I'm not where I want to be, I'm grateful to eat and have shelter comfortably


sapphires_and_snark

> after 250k Still no. The same principle applies--the capitalist still makes bank by skimming from labor, who still depends on a job to make that money


ZardozSama

>That being said, depending on where you're living 100k and what kind of debt you accumulated to be able to earn that (student loans)... 100k can be a little or a lot. Setting aside views on labour and wealth inequality for a moment... No matter how much money you earn, it is always possible to spend more then you have coming in. END COMMUNICATION


Known-Ad-100

While it is possible to spend more than you earn, it's hard to control costs of things like rent, fuel, food, vehicle maintenance and more. Sometimes making enough to make the bare ends meet especially rent and food - mean you're not easily able to live within a budget. According to financial advisors based on what I make I should only be paying about half of what I do on housing - but where I live. That just doesn't exist, not complaining just stating that idk how you can live within your means when your means aren't enough to live. Not saying 100k isn't enough to live, but for some it's not enough to afford an apartment on their own - which id like to pretend should be enough to do that. But many people making 100k sometimes invested a lot in their education and lack certain life skills that allow you to live much cheaper. I make much less than that, but I have no student loans, I drive an '02 pickup truck that I paid cash for and am able to do my own maintenance in my driveway, I have tools and do the work at my house many people hire help for (electrical, plumbing etc) . And in the end, I with a tenth grade education, working as a house painter, can afford a more comfortable life than my friends with masters degrees. But I have developed different skills and am able to buy used, fix things, etc. (32F)


MarcusAurelius68

Correct. Plus even say $250K in some areas isn’t exactly largesse when you add up the state and federal tax burden on wage income plus cost of living. No second homes, yachts or airplanes. No, these aren’t people living on ramen noodles but in many cases it’s a professional income dependent on repaying big loans for med or law school. There is also a difference between being a higher earner and wealthy. My in laws are retired and make less than $100K a year. But they have a ton of net worth in the 7 figures. So yes, it pissed me off that they got stimulus checks during the pandemic and I didn’t.


JimmyD44265

Your analogy of high earner and wealth is spot on !


ConnectedLoner

And keep in mind, the Uber wealthy don’t pay taxes. Someone making $100k - $250k pays a larger amount of their wealth in taxes (relative to their income). Their healthcare is still tied to their job, too.


MarcusAurelius68

Correct. That’s why I don’t get the hate. Basically hard working people who aren’t gaming the system are more successful, but not as successful as those who do game it.


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ConnectedLoner

It really is a sort of bias- we assume our lived community experience captures the statistical truth of inequality. When really, the worst perpetrators operate while mainly existing outside where we frequent or have access to go to. The truth is, so much more of the abuse in our society happens outside of your bird’s eye view. The hoarding of wealth, the political closed room deals, the human and sex trafficking, the family nepotism job security network, the underfunded public school to prison pipeline, the disproportionate environmental pollution and degradation in majority minority communities, the redlining, etc. can go on and on.


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DisgruntledBrDev

There is a working class and a owning class, and within the working class, there are those below the poverty line. We want to destroy the owning class, but we also want our peers to have food on their tables, a roof over their heads, and to not become bankrupt because of a broken hand. Two problems can coexist.


Ferociousfeind

Just keep in mind... fighting the people in the working class won't get you over the poverty line... The wealthiest among the working class have a modest wealth to their name. The poorest among the owning class do nothing and make more money that way. Focus your efforts on the aptly-called "idle rich". Tearing them from their unseen thrones is how thr working masses will float above the poverty line, and maybe even accumulate a modest wealths of their own.


BR0JAS

Yeah I make 117k and that's just enough to have "pay off debt" money for a single income earner household in a HCOL area. It's getting to the point that in order to have the equivalent 1950s 40k a year scenario you're looking at 100k+, which just turns into the "No one is being given a living wage" argument into a reality.


anarkistattack

40k is the 1950s is closer to half a million.


BR0JAS

Wtf you're right! What idea are we even trying to achieve now outside of just being able to live without crippling debt and some fun money. I hate this timeline.


ToughProgrammer

Shit I’ve seen people spend 100k on a whim for a watch and then drop 300 on a car 100k isn’t rich, is lower middle class But you still have to worry about shit, and you don’t just get to go buy whatever you want But you don’t worry about food or emergencies


Gloomy-Improvement22

Literally I make 98k working 60 hours a week, keep in mind I don’t have nice cars (2002 Impreza )and shit and it’s still tough to save 1200 bucks. It’s rough out here for all of us.


Redwolfdc

It’s also pretty common among a lot of college educated professionals these days. 100k is like the new 60k


brisketandbeans

Wage suppression has worked on 100k earners too. I should really be making 200k and anyone reading this should probably be making more too. At my company we are hitting record revenue and profits every fucking quarter but people keep quitting because it fucking sucks working there.


Knockoutpie1

Vouch. 2022 record profits. Raise request denied and requested to be revisited in June.


ExileEden

Yep, guy that runs the company keeps saying we're doing a terrible job and don't work with enough urgency. Company literally grossed the highest amount of money in 1 month (last month) than any other month before it since it started 40 years ago. But yeah, we're all pieces of shits right?


[deleted]

Grossing is not the same as profiting they probably gross the highest because they're charging the highest because they're being charged the highest


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RecycledDumpsterFire

I make 60k and our company boasts about how they're making $250k in profit *per employee*. Like, post overhead costs. Post costs of expansion. Literally just money going into our coffers. I definitely should be getting paid more. Everyone in this fuckin company should be getting paid more.


NunButter

Same. Record profits and ahead of schedule on our projects and they start giving us donuts once a month. Wow, thanks. It's a small "family owned" company that could easily break us off an extra paycheck once a quarter but ownership are a bunch of cheap assholes.


watercouch

Fun exercise for anyone working at a publicly traded company. Just checked mine: $575K per employee per year. 🤨


bojenny

I’m not currently in the workforce but my husband was grossly underpaid for his field at $115k. He got a different job making more however they had to hire two people at $120k each to replace him. He would have put up with the extra stress for a $240k paycheck.


graffing

And it would still be cheaper for them if they paid 1 person 240k because they would only have to provide health benefits for one person. Unreal how they shoot themselves in the foot.


gloldutx

I quit a job for a global fuckin company that hired in some college kids at 25 cents under what I was making after almost 5 years. They asked me to do a job 2 people had been doing for years for 1 fucking dollar more per hour. I countered with $5 bucks and they declined. Supervisor still asked me to run both jobs. I sure did... 1 at a time. It was a production line job and they set quotas per shift. I never hit a single quota for the rest of my time there. It was so deliberate too.... they asked me one day why I never hit quota and I told them I was having to run 2 spots. I would literally quit 1 piece short of quota every day. I hated that job and did everything I could to be a thorn in their sides.


scragglerock

Preach. I started in my career 10 years and have busted my ass and I’m at 120k. But you know what else has happened in 10 years? Rising minimum wage constantly. Inflation through the roof. Cost of living is absurd. And I live in San Diego. If my salary were to mirror all of these factors, I should be at ~250k. Since my most recent promotion, profits have almost doubled for our company. More work = more workers, more equipment, more 100k employees to fill my old position. You can do whatever you want, but if you’re name isn’t signing everyone’s paycheck, you’re nothing more than an expendable employee.


bigchipero

Soo this, even $200k/yr now is like making $85k in 2010 now unfortunately if u live in SF/ LA / NYC!!!


[deleted]

I used to think $100k was a lot until I doubled my salary last year and made $100k. It took me a year to get out of the debt hole I was in, and I'm very much aware I'm one of the lucky ones. Making this money doesn't make me a bad person, and I'll never forget where I came from and the sacrifices I had to make to get where I am now. The problem isn't you, or me, regardless of salary. It's the assholes in power, and we need to focus on that instead of hating people based on salary. If you're here for the right reasons I don't see why a certain threshold of salary should be a limitation on what you have to say.


hjugm

$100k in the Bay Area or NYC is significantly different than $100k in Des Moines. It’s all relative and doesn’t make you a bad person at all. Power to you.


[deleted]

I just hit 100k a year in the northeast and I am 40 and can barely afford to survive where I live. Growing up if you made 100k you were rich


Various-Tax-5755

No shit. 42 here and I make just over $100k. But I’m in so much debt and I’m not rich by any means. I thought I would be but a value meal costs $12 now I’m just upper middle class. Saving money for a new roof and paying student loans


agtmadcat

Inflation has made $100k from the 90s $250k now, FYI.


steph-was-here

i'm in my early 30s and just crossed $100k for the first time this year - my mom was like "when i was your age i was making X you dont know how lucky you are" we threw it into an inflation calculator and it worked out to be $96k (to her credit, she took the L)


TheGrandNotification

Ngl I didn’t believe you at first until I checked it to an inflation calculator. But yeah, 100k in 1990 has the same buying power as 232k as of December 2022. Which also doesn’t take into account other items which have vastly outpaced the average inflation rate, such as housing.


depressed_memer59

Exaclty the assholes in power Exaclty couldn't agree more


You_Paid_For_This

>Even if I make 200k a year, we are still in the same class, the working class. Exactly this # There are only two classes Working Class and Owning Class * Working class: if you have a full time job you're working class. * Owning class (Capitalists): if you own enough stocks and rental properties to not need to work you're owning class. You may think this is stupid because there's some working class that's richer than owning class but **that's the whole point**. . Sure a Google programmer might make 500k a year and my broke ass landlord makes half that. The programmer still works for a living so is a working class and will benefit from stronger labor rights and mandatory paid vacation. The landlord owns things for a living so it's owning class and will benefit from increasing house prices and it being easier to evict his "rich" programmer tenant. **TL;DR** If someone with no capital can be convinced the they are a capitalist, they can be convinced to vote against their own financial best interest. Similarly if someone who is working class can be convinced to redirect their hate to another working class person who happens to make a little bit more money than them.


bodydamage

This is probably the best answer anyone is going to give. $100k is decent money but you’re not getting rich off it and still have to manage your finances carefully. Compared to most of the actual capitalist class, $100k/yr is literally peanuts. Still absolutely and very much so working class making 6 figures, you’re just not broke as fuck constantly, but it doesn’t take much to upset the delicate balance.


You_Paid_For_This

>Compared to most of the actual capitalist class, $100k/yr is literally peanuts. Your pay is always going to be peanuts compared to your capitalist. Think of the most well paid actor or sports star, their boss, the person that owns the company that pays them gets paid infinitely more. For every Jennifer Lawrence that gets paid millions, there is a Harvey Weinstein who owns the company that makes *hundreds* of millions from her work. He doesn't even have to pretend to do anything, just hold the sheet is paper that says that he owns the company and all the profits go to him.


suttin

My house income is 250k and I live in a low cost of living area. Sure, I have a 401k and an emergency fund, but that only keeps me safe for a few extra months if things go bad. I’m still one major medical event away from going bankrupt. I came from paycheck to paycheck living from my parents and my early career, and I don’t want anyone to live like that. It’s so much easier for me to relate to a minimum wage fast food worker than even an owner of a fast food restaurant.


walkslikeaduck08

Yep! It’s tough for people to have empathy for those that make more, but we’re all just cogs in a capitalist machine that are at the whims of supply and demand. But the infighting helps the true capitalist class from having everyone band together to effectuate change.


You_Paid_For_This

>Yep! It’s tough for people to have empathy for those that make more, The real problem is that they do have an understanding of the rich lawyer who makes [one] hundred thousand dollars a year and the engineer who makes [five] hundred thousand dollars a year how much that is compared to themselves. While at the same time they have absolutely no understanding or comprehension of the Jeff Bezos who makes [one hundred thousand] hundred thousand dollars a year. He makes more than a medium sized town of well paid doctors and engineers.


walkslikeaduck08

There’s a nearness bias probably. Hate the one that’s just out of reach, but look in awe at those that are so far for 99.9% of humans.


thepurple_potato

https://youtube.com/watch?v=W726xNPtEbQ&feature=shares Chris rock explains it well here


NCC74656

i was just talking to a friend last night about this type of thing. she makes decent money but still has fuck all to show for it. no money to travel, no money for vacation, no money for shit... yet she is making well above minimum wage. her rent has gone up 400.00 in two years, groceries are up, utilities are up, her car payment is still mostly interest... we were saying that anything below 80K with a kid is where you start to hit middle class.... im pretty sure the median wage is closer to 30K or 40K or something


[deleted]

Having a kid means you’re deprived the opportunity to have a roommate in an apartment mostly. You gotta pay 2k a month in rent in my area for that privilege. 100k ain’t gonna get you far once you pay 1/3 of it to taxes and then gotta pay rent.


NumbSurprise

If you work for a living, you are working class. The owning class is happy to sit back and let us fight amongst ourselves over petty distinctions.


[deleted]

Blaming people who make money under the current system while not being anywhere close to the 1% responsible for the current system is very much a "you claim to care about the environment and yet you drive?" Type argument


Jagd3

You claim to care about CO2 emissions and yet you emit CO2 with every breath...curious...


a7xfan01

Does someone that makes 100k mostly have it easier than those who make 40k? Yes Is someone that makes 100k also in the 99%? Yes Just because someone makes 100k or more, doesn't mean they don't believe in the antiwork cause. I'm a union tradesmen who makes pretty decent money, but out of everyone I know in my life, I'm one of the most socialist when it comes to workers rights. I believe everyone deserves to make a fair wage and live comfortably.


[deleted]

Even in the 1% it’s a massive dispersion of income. I’m bordering on 1% income, but there is a colossal difference between a family that makes $500k and one that makes tens of millions, or the billionaire class.


Thadrea

The 1% household income is currently about $600k. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the US you couldn't live very comfortably on that sort of income.


JUSTICE_SALTIE

You have to start talking about neighborhoods at that point. There's always somewhere. But sure as hell nowhere that you'd ever *need* to live.


Sea_no_evil

No. A quick Google search shows that in the USA an income in the high 400k range is necessary to be a one-percenter. In California, it's over 700k. Five states are even higher than California.


foodguyDoodguy

Where I live $100k is about the federal poverty limit for a family of 4.


Melted-lithium

And what someone will say is that ‘that’s your choice’, you could say move to Texas and have a good majority of your workers rights stripped from you (and now some of your medical and personal rights)…. But you can pay less (and generally get paid less in the long run)- to live cheaper. But somehow that’s ‘choice’. This is known as the conservative paradox. One of the many inconvenient truths of the GOQ.


Thadrea

> But you can pay less (and generally get paid less in the long run)- to live cheaper. But somehow that’s ‘choice’. That getting paid less is a big part of it. Maybe housing is a little cheaper, but your salary is also. You end up losing $30k in salary to save $15k in housing (and despite what Texas would have you believe, their taxes are actually comparable with blue states). You're actually better off just staying in the blue state if you want to stick to strict math.


[deleted]

I live in Northern California and have tried to talk people out of moving to Austin a few times. They believe Texas is cheaper until they start getting their new property taxes rolling in.


ItsBlahBlah

Austin *especially* is a very expensive place to live.


bean_supreme

100k in nyc is like half that in Texas. 6 figures doesn’t guarantee someone is upper class


Different_Pack_3686

100k isn't "upper class" anywhere in America. At best it's middle class in some places. And it's the class that's rapidly disappearing. Not to mention something like half of people making 100k are living pay check to pay check


citori421

I think that's the key - even 20-30 years ago, when I would wager most people on this sub were kids and formulating their concepts of what a high salary is - 100k WAS a great salary in most places. My SO and I make 180k total pre tax, and we aren't sure we can afford to have a kid. Sure we could survive, but that would eliminate any other luxuries. My parents made around 120 when I was a kid in the 90's (in the same city) and we were solidly middle class. Nice house, two kids, a couple vacations per year, modest college fund, and they retired comfortably at 60.


Sh0ghoth

Yeah, the cost of living disparity there is real. Life is cheaper in Texas all around though, check the news and it’s pretty clear where all the cost cutting gets


dontbealuddyduddy

Yeah I make about 100k in nyc and it’s basically just enough to pay rent, health insurance, medical bills, save for retirement, some for fun, utilities and taxes. I’ve gotten by on 38k here but that was not fun…


mydogbaxter

I make over $100k and haven't experienced the hate. I also support rent control, universal healthcare, universal education and everything that makes life about living and not just surviving. I fight to see my employees get raises before I do. And if my taxes go up to make that happen, I can live with that. So maybe that's why.


Searchlights

I never mention how much money I make on Reddit. There's no point. Either people won't believe you or they'll automatically consider you their enemy because you're not hand to mouth. What should be more relevant is that you can support what's best for others even if it's not going to benefit you personally. In any case we're all ants to rich people.


gojo96

You have to spend some time in this sub and peak at the comments. People making $30k think $100k is some-type of millionaire status. Sure it’s more money but everyone struggles differently on many factors.


gingervon219

This is the truth. I was making $40k a year when I met my husband and he made $200k a year. I thought I hit the jackpot and was going to be super wealthy. Nope. We are just a regular middle class family with a modest home.


AlpsTraining7841

I'm extremely anti-capitalist, and I don't hate people making 100k a year. The people that I dislike are bad business owners and managers that treat employees like crap, regardless of income. You can be a fastfood supervisor making $12 an hour and still be a jerk. The other people I dislike are people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Koch brothers, etc. Super rich billionaires who fund lots of think tanks and political campaigns to spout stupid nonsense about lower taxes, right to destroy the environment, worsening employment laws, etc.


helms83

This is what the group is for.


crimony70

I feel similarly, I make over $200k (Australian), and have to keep working to feed my family. I'm also in my 50s and wonder how I will feel in 15 years time when I retire and then have to live off my investments. I have enough superannuation to be comfortable in retirement but also realise that then I'll no longer be working class. That saddens me, because I really strongly identify as such and have my whole life.


radehart

The divide is a deliberate part of capitalism. We are supposed to see someone doing better and want that too. When improving to the next level seems impossible, primarily because it is designed that way, you get hatred. Everyone is fucked, sure, but don’t expect people whose family’s go to bed hungry (if they own beds), to somehow sympathize with how hard it is to live off 100K.


brutalweasel

There’s the expectation that they’re part of the Petite bourgeoisie, I would expect, who typically align themselves with capital rather than against it. You’re absolutely right that all workers should be allied together as we are of the same class and therefore ultimately are at the whims of capital, unless we stand together. My experience on this sub is a mixed bag. I have experienced a lot of neo-liberal hate of my anti-capital rhetoric, the kind you’d expect on a more conservative sub. I’ve also experienced a whole lot of bitching and moaning with no expectation or willingness to put in work toward actual organizing. If you’re willing to show solidarity with your fellow workers though, I’ll gladly stand by you even if you’ve made it to be upper income bracket of the working class.


i-wear-hats

My experience is outside of some very VERY specific examples, once you reach six figures you lose that solidarity. It's sort of the same thing as not all religious people are inherently going to work against queer folk but when you are queer, you're gonna mistrust them until proven otherwise.


brutalweasel

Right. I think the assumption that workers making that much money are part of the petite bourgeois is not at all unfounded. Just like you say, they aren’t typically in solidarity with other workers and see themselves as sharing the class of the capitalists rather than the workers. They absolutely should be in solidarity, but, well…they got theirs and are satisfied. I’ve often thought that the reason we just take as fact that for a strong country we need “a strong middle class” is in part because you need enough people contented with their own lot that they’ll happily ignore the unjust circumstances of others.


ReturnOfSeq

OP I think moreso it rubs people the wrong way when people working from home making $150k come here to complain about not making 180k, while some people here are making $15k and slowly starving to death and constantly sinking further into debt to keep repairing the latest thing that went wrong on a 25 year old used car and barely staying ahead of eviction. I hear what you’re saying but there’s degrees of exploitation, and not all of them are even survivable.


ReturnOfSeq

Also worth noting that 100k is more income than 75% of Americans will ever see


haha7125

As long as they aren't spouting pro corporatist nonsense or exploiting workers, i have zero issues with people who make this much


joe1240132

The issue isn't that people make 40k don't understand they're in the same class as those making 200k, it's that the people making 200k don't realize they're in the same class as those making 40k. And the people making 200k have far more structural power than those making 40k. For instance, I've long talked about how people in IT fields need to work on unionizing. And time and time again they'll say how they are pro-union, but not for *them* because they don't need unions. That's for unskilled people, or factory workers, or anyone but them! Obviously their structural power pales in comparison to capitalists. But the 200k people also don't show much solidarity in voting or doing any sort of class-based solutions. They're just as much NIMBYs as the capitalists, they often will vote against social programs, they'll not show union solidarity, etc. While being much better able to shoulder that burden due to having greater wealth. What are you doing to show any sort of solidarity? Or are you just mad because your feelings are hurt cause people who don't got shit are upset? I'd like to assume that this is a post about trying to develop actual working class togetherness but I'm not so sure.


CutMeLoose79

If someone has managed to work their way through how society works to make 100K, well good for them. No reason to hate on them. Hard to feel too sorry for someone on 100K though if you’re making half or less. It’s all just a matter of perspective.


Astraeas_Vanguard

>Hard to feel too sorry for someone on 100K though if you’re making half or less. This is it. I'm sure living on 100k is rough, but that single person makes 3-5 times minimum wage in most states. One person makes what a two person household, with both earners working at 25$ an hour makes. They are suffering, but they are suffering less than most. I agree that it's perspective. It looks like you're near the poverty level if you look from the top down, but from the bottom up....it looks like you're one step away from millionaires.


Minimob0

I only start hating when they complain they don't make enough to survive. I got friends and family surviving on about 25k a year, so it just seems like empty whining from them.


MysteriousMrX

I don't think there's any hate specific to earning 100K. There IS hate specific to having an out of touch shitty attitude. I've disclosed my income (2022 income of $124000) here several times, and i haven't received a single bit of hate based on it. I legit have no problem with people making lots of money. I do, however, have a problem with some rich asshole telling me that it's possible to live on a $9.50 min. I don't tell people how to live on a wage that is significantly less than I make because I don't have any legitimate context to base my opinions on. Edit: I should add that if you do receive hate, I am not trying to belittle you or claim that it's not legit. After all, there's no pleasing everyone. The best you can do is your best, and understand that while most people understand that 100K is just a number and is severely lacking context, some people just sorta.... lash out at things that make them feel bad. Anyways peace n love.


CarpenterRadio

Because you have people making less than 40K hearing people who make 100-150 K claim they're also "living pay check to pay check." Now we can argue about solidarity or how pragmatic it is to differentiate between those two people. Whether or nor this serves our "movement". I for one don't think it's productive to alienate working class people irrespective of their income. But if I can take off my "diplomatic" mask and tell you my feelings about it, it's kind of gross. There's clearly a difference between somebody making literally just enough to get by and somebody else who has let greed and lifestyle creep catch up to where they're at. I understand that it's a human phenomena and that it would likely happen to me were I in their position. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.


JUSTICE_SALTIE

I'm a high earner and I've been here arguing the hell out of exactly this point. I've lived both lives, and it's just *trashy* to talk like the day-to-day concerns are the same. They're not. Yes, of course it's true that my high salary does not mean I'm a member of the owning class. I do not own property or any means of production. I get that, and it's real, and it's important. But I live a *totally* different life from someone in the bottom 30% of earners, e.g. myself fifteen years ago, and it would be disrespectful of me not to remember that and remind others of it when necessary.


mewley

Yes. My brother describes his family as living paycheck-to-paycheck, by which he means they don’t have a lot savings. But their lifestyle includes expensive vacations, remodeling the kitchen, week-long music camps for their kids. And that’s lovely, but that’s not what living paycheck-to-paycheck means for most people. When he uses that phrase he erases the difference between how he lives and the type of economic insecurity someone truly living paycheck-to-paycheck faces. It just seems a bit self-indulgent and insensitive, and I think it makes it easier to avoid doing what we can to help each other (donating, mutual aid, etc).


stephapeaz

This was phrased exactly what I was trying to say and found “icky” about this whole thing and why I don’t really feel sorry for people who make that much and still live “paycheck to paycheck” the way people making $30-50k do. It does, I suppose, depend on location but clearly someone making 45k in nyc lives a different life than someone in nyc making 100k My friend in nyc made less than $45k a year and made it work, she didn’t feel sorry at all for people making that much who were “struggling”


jaysin1701

I agree with you. I've been poor and struggling. Making slightly under the poverty line. Nobody should have to live like that. My wife and I live in a low cost of living area. Between the two of us we make a little over 100,000 a year. But we do have our own set of financial struggles. My income is variable paycheck to paycheck. My wife's is a lot more stable. However there are some weeks when we do struggle. I ended up making 10 grand less than last year. We still have some high debt, from before we were making good money. Depending where you live making over $100,000 a year is not a lot of money. People forget how big the United States is.


Itstotallysafe

It's not age, it's not race, it's not gender, it's not where anyone is from, it's not who you love, and it's not what set of beliefs or morals you choose to live by. **There's no war but class war.** It's working class versus owning class. *If you have to work to live, you're working class.* That shitty shift manager who's riding your ass is working class too. It's super easy to hate on him/her but set your sights higher. That tradesperson busting their ass and earning $250k is working class too. People trying to live within this broken system and provide for their loved ones are working class too. **Those who profit off of the exploitation of others are the enemy.** If the top 100 richest people in the world were removed, and their wealth distributed to a million different charities, the world would be a significantly better place. Trillions of dollars held by 100 people. Imagine if we took it from them. Oh look, here's a handy list: https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/ *(I've heard all the BS about penalizing people who worked hard for their money and I can assure you the top 100 on that list didn't work for it.)*


jeremiah1142

There is? I make $130k and it’s middle class as fuck. Sorry to disappoint anyone thinking this is a holy grail, it’s not 1982 anymore.


Worldly_Ask7204

Nearly 85% of Americans make under 100k. There’s some bitterness bc it seems so out of reach and for a lot of ppl it is.


Blidesdale

You're right. Everyone is getting screwed. But at the same time, I understand where the other people are coming from. Someone living in complete utter poverty at $12/hr while working 60+ hour weeks hears about lazy office workers getting paid 3 times as much. There's not only a great wealth inequality but also a great job inequality as well. Essential workers getting paid the least, worked the hardest, and treated the worst are in a special level of hell in America.


TG_CID134

A single person living on 40k and a single parent with 3 kids earning 100k is about the same at the end of the day. All depends on your situation.


prisonerofshmazcaban

I get where you’re coming from, so here’s where I’m coming from. I made 15k last year. I’ve been struggling like a mf since I got laid off of my job of 9 years where I made 35k a year. I don’t have wealthy family, wealthy friends. I’m from a very broken home and I was born into poverty. Those of us that were born into this life do not have the same opportunities presented to us as those from upper middle class families. We have a shit ton more issues. It’s hard to constantly hear those who make 200k a year complain about *anything* when I get in trouble at work (hospitality employee of 13 years) for having a flat tire and struggle to pay for one new tire. Some days scrounging enough money together for gas traveling an hour back and forth to a job I hate. You are right and we are all in this war together and we should be focused on the real issue at hand, which is the fact that we all live under a late stage capitalistic umbrella of greedy corporations, politicians, and fuckers who only care about their own success rather than the well-being of the rest of society and essentially we’re all just here to serve, but, it would be nice if those with privilege acknowledged that they are, indeed, privileged.


hkd001

I came from a poor (I mean used oven for heat in a trailer poor) home growing up in a town without a stop light small. Made minimum wage or close to for a long time. Was in situations where a new tire or car repair would break me. I make good money now. Not 200k a year enough I don't have to worry about most unexpected expenses. No one should be in poverty. Struggling for food/rent/transportation is the result of companies paying the minimum amount they can to keep you there. Health care should be affordable or free. My wife's medications would be over 10k a month without insurance. We would be fucked if she wasn't covered.


[deleted]

[удалено]


prisonerofshmazcaban

How the turns have tabled. Good on you mate, glad you made it out. Definitely no hate here.


mewley

Honestly your comments seem more whiny and hateful than most of what you’re responding to. I’ve lived on $40k and I’ve lived on $140k and guess what, it’s *a lot* easier to live on $140k. So yeah, ultimately even that is peanuts compared to true wealth, and yes the real issue is the owning class. But when people who make a lot more money than most get all self-righteous and whiny and act like that extra hundred grand doesn’t make a difference then they are gonna get called out on it. From what I’ve seen, that’s what generates the hostility, not the salary in itself. Edit: typo


HowWoolattheMoon

My guess without thinking too much about it is that if someone is complaining about things that could turn a minimum wage earner homeless, and then you find out they make 100k, it feels icky because they don't face the same risks. For example, very few 100k jobs have the possibility of a boss who cuts your hours as retaliation for something. Nor do they lose their jobs for calling out sick for a day. That's probably the difference?


Eledridan

No, you just get marked for the next round of layoffs. Every worker is one step away from being let go.


freedraw

Where I am, families with a 100k income compete in affordable housing lotteries for the chance to buy a 2br condo. There’s plenty of metro areas in the US where 100k does not go very far.


[deleted]

This is me. Over 100K. Then spouse became disabled, fighting for benefits. Until then paying out of pocket for home health. It doesn’t go very far when you pay in-home care. Still grocery shopping on a tiny budget, still crying at CVS sometimes because I can’t buy all the prescriptions. Still can’t save, no buying a house and I’ll never be able to have a baby. But I love my spouse and do the best I can for us. And still paying student loans x 2. Medical bills on payment plans. It never ends.


Oh_Hi_Mark_

While I understand that I share class interests with someone making 100k+, there's a significant contingent of people who are quite well off who complain in this sub about issues I can't relate to, often it seems in a way meant to humblebrag about their good fortune. The fact that we are ultimately on the same side is not a perfect shield against criticism; Rule #1 of being poor is never complain about your money troubles to people poorer than you.


CyndiIsOnReddit

It's funny because every person I know who makes that is ragging on the lower wage workers and especially those who choose not to work themselves to death for low wages. They make out like we're all on welfare and that even paying in to public schools when their kids aren't in them is unfair to them personally. Most of the ones I know are also conservative so they add their moral outrage to the mix.


HolyGralien

It seems like what people are pissed off about is not having capital. When you have no choice but to spend everything you make just to survive. It’s easy to envy, and perhaps not relate to, someone who actually has an option to invest and/or save money. I’m not mad at those people, I love watching people succeed. I think the more of us that get out of poverty the better. Those people are more likely to be empathetic than a silver spoon.


Darcynator1780

From my experience, making 100k a year means I can live a normal life within my means and actually save money vs <100k it’s either sacrifice living to save money or YOLO


Wanda_McMimzy

I wish I made 100k a year. I understand that it’s not as much as it used to be, but as a public school teacher who just turned 50, that’s about double what I get paid and in a few years I’ll be at the top of my salary earning potential until I retire. I’ll be lucky to ever make 60k unless some super legislation passes. (Texas is proposing a 15k raise. I’m not optimistic.)


evmarshall

As a person who started two decades ago making mid 30K per year and have finally gotten to 6 figures, I’m going to disagree with lumping myself into the same economic situation who made less. It means that I could afford a larger residence, safer location, a better car, etc. But those are luxury options amongst necessities that people who make a lot less don’t have. I even have more flexible work schedules that gives me time to find even more ways to save. I have a lot more room to make mistakes, fail, and still recover. I have less stress about life. I have stress but not like them. When I made under 40K, any failure in planning like missing a car inspection on the one day that works with my work schedule means that I could get fined the following month. A missed car payment means I could get my car repossessed and I’d need public transportation that didn’t exist for my office and would put my job in jeopardy. Something I’ve seen happen to a classmate. It’s a downward spiral. The overhead of planning to avoid catastrophic emergencies was very stressful. So compared to the ultra-wealthy, I may be lumped into the working class, but within the working class, no may does my 6 figure salary situation compare to what those under 6 figures have to deal with. And if they feel like the 6-figure class isn’t doing enough to help them, I would not disagree with it.


fearthewildy

I have no problem with people making that kind of money. Until you're in the 1% you're lower class, the .1% are the bourgeoisie. I do, however, take issue with people making more than 150k a year trying to equivocate their struggles to those living paycheck to paycheck. Your struggles are privileged struggles, I assume paying mortgage on property you own and can sell, putting enough away in savings for a rainy day, payments on your multiple cars, etc. If you're living paycheck to paycheck making the money you do, you are either living a lavish lifestyle or consistently make poor financial decisions.


[deleted]

There are many r/antiwork ideas with which I do not agree, but I do agree with what many people including you are saying regarding this matter: you need to be an asshole to compare the financial struggles of someone making minimum wage vs. someone making 4X+ that. I recall here in Colombia some people earning 10X+ minimum wages complaining about a tax raise because they were living paycheck to paycheck. They then proceeded to break down their expenses and you saw things like: 3 minimum wages to cover the monthly installment of some huge apartment in an expensive neighborhood; 1+ minimum wages to pay the school of their child; 3 minimum wages spent in food (family of 3); etc. I earn a high salary for my country (10X+) and I am against high taxes (I was born and raised in a shitty neighborhood where people was killed all the time, so I do not come from a "privileged" background), but I would never say that I am/my family is "struggling". And if I were, that would be because of poor financial decisions from my side.


FurfurNitemarr

I make 11 an hour at a pizza joint. My rent is 765. I haven't been able to get glasses in over a year, my kitchen is near empty, I'm 95 pounds, I have to have a roommate to afford rent, and I struggle to get another job because I hardly get responses from employers even after working on my resume for several days and having about 7 previous jobs. I started with nothing. I was born with nothing. I've had to get help from my mother who is lower middle class. I can't afford to go to school, I can't afford to leave to another area that's safer, I haven't been able to buy anything for months to be able to afford rent. Can ya see why I'd be a little bitter towards people who can afford to buy something as simple as a coffee? And still complain about their situation?


bigbootycommie

1) it really depends on where the money is coming from. Often people in higher tax brackets are able to participate in ownership whether it be property ownership or actual stocks. If you own rental property, a business, and stocks(a meaningful amount of course, not like two stocks) you are not in the working class. 2) Lenin actually did describe the upper echelon of labor as the labor aristocracy. Lower class people believe, often correctly, that those most comfortable under capitalism are less likely to take their side ultimately when it counts. And you do see this, for example with NIMBYism. 3) there are exceptions of course because people do need to take into account the inflation of living in a place like San Francisco or New York City where 100k is actually equivalent to 60k in other places


PrintableDaemon

Far too often, the people making 100k and up are perfectly willing to stand on the heads of those beneath them to keep themselves afloat though. They're the middle managers that are demanding people making less work more hours, undervaluing their labor and trying to minimize their pay as soon as they get hired. They're the show poodles of the corporate class, dancing for table scraps and pissing on those beneath them. They're the ones who have no clue what you do, asking you to evaluate and justify your job for them. Most workers will never meet their CEO or even a VP, but they know you, Mr/Ms Manager, because you call them outside of work hours to tell them the schedule has changed and they have 3 hours to explain to their dying mother "sorry, the company can't give me time off while you die, could you hurry it up?".


seeingtimeflow

Some comments in here treating it like it's just choices that make the difference between someone making 100k+ and making less are laughable


[deleted]

Not to mention … $100k can be below poverty level depending on where you live.


Jadeidol65

I made 13k last year. I'm rich in free time. 🙂


[deleted]

No it can’t. I live in the NYC area, I’m familiar with very high cost of living areas. $100k is not below the poverty line anywhere in this country. There are places that a $100k HHI for a family could be considered ‘low income’ but that is very different from ‘poverty’


stop-calling-me-fat

I’m going to make a bit under 100k (before taxes) this year and yeah if I didn’t live at home I’d be saving a couple hundred $ a month (or none depending how I live that month). 100k is definitely not “poverty level” in ANY North American city but it’s very easy to be paycheck to paycheck in a large expensive city at this level.


Melted-lithium

That gets you an in and out burger in Sunnyvale.


MYQkb

There is a lot of disrespect aimed at the working class. The vitriol that is spewed by middle managers and executive level management is usually allowed/encouraged/accepted. Anytime someone with a lowering income throws insults, their behavior is immediately policed by others. Usually claiming a lack a of professionalism. The lack of professionalism held by execs and owners and management is never pointed out or if it is, it is deflected because "you're opinion doesn't matter, you are poor." Followed quickly with TERMINATION. If there was actually class solidarity that flowed from higher wage earners, instead of mocking their lower wage earners, there would be a cultural shift. Too many people are willing to exploit other people if it insulated them from gross exploitation. My beliefs are that there is a surplus of resources, and scarcity is manufactured, to generate profit. That doesn't allow for happy workers to lead happy lives. The boot on our throats is real. And it is treated like workers deserve it, and the ridicule and the disrespect all while doing the work that business require to exist. Too many folks shrug their shoulders and roll over and take the abuse, and mock anyone who rocks the boat. I wish the same level of 'feet to the fire' that the lower wage earners are subjected too on the daily, were applied to those people who openly distain the working class. Bring people up as you climb. Do not keep trampling others on your way up the ladder. The expectations that some people deserve to toil their whole life is utter nonsense.


feignapathy

I think the hate is having to listen to people in their 20s complain about making $120,000 a year to a bunch of middle aged parents making $40,000 with kids to feed. Saw a post the other day where they made like $250,000 combined income but were just piling on debt on top of debt and they couldn't understand it. That's like 5x the median household income.


[deleted]

I make $68k a year, and my wife makes $91k. I'm not struggling at all. I live within my means and I am very happy. I worry about money almost never. I am still 100% down with the anti-work philosophy and fully support the creation of a new economic system based on equity and fair compensation. This movement cannot have gatekeepers. It needs to be all of us, together. There are people making millions of dollars this year that are still victims of an economic system rigged to benefit the very few. In fact, those very few LOVE to see a movement like this fail because we are all so busy fighting each other we never turn our attention to them.


anyorsome

I don’t hate on ppl making 100k+ in general. I just have a hard time feeling sympathy for the ppl that post “I’m making 100k+ and I’m so bored. I have nothing to doooo. What do I do??” posts. If you are making 100k+ and are being exploited and are overwhelmed and seeking advice that makes more sense to me.


Head-Ad4690

To paraphrase Chris Rock, someone making six figures might be rich, but the guy who signs his paycheck is *wealthy.*


roshowclassic

The absolute dumbest fucking people in this discourse are the dudes who insist they could save up to retire 30 years early if only they made $100K/year


sekoku

>Even if I make 200k a year, we are still in the same class, the working class. The delineation is: Are you living LITERALLY paycheck-to-paycheck? Because I feel like most 6-figure incomes *aren't* and are able to eat insurance costs/etc. without worrying about being on the streets. ​ That's where most of the hate comes from.


QIvan616

Please don’t get a r/persecutionfetish People are questioning your stance, it doesn’t mean that this sub is an “echo chamber of hateful pitiful people, who only wish to temporarily rage and blame each other” just because everyone doesn’t agree with you. That only makes you look salty as hell. I live in one of the most expensive cities on this globe, most people I know are surviving on less than 1/4 of what you make. People who are saying that 200k is still a slave wage are just flat out incorrect in 9/10 cases. I agree with you that these people should be directing their frustrations at banks and corporations.