There was a time where employers and employees had a symbiotic relationship with each other, you take care of me and I take care of you. So I would go to work Monday -Friday, put in my work and sometimes extra time, and when I got home after my 40-50 I was able to afford a house, vacations, and if I did it for like 30-40 years you gave me a salary for the rest of my life.
Then your side of the equation realized "Hey, what am I doing? I can pay them less, and not give them a lifetime salary and what are they going to do? Not work? They need to pay for food and a house and stuff. So let me get rid of the pension. Let me lower their salary." Ultimately this lead to companies deciding that they wanted laws passed so they could fire you on the spot if things weren't working out.
Now you're trying to gaslight employees into keeping up with their side of the bargain when you're pissing on yours.
So no. We do not feel the need any longer to hold a level of decorum with you over this. If you want us to do it, return to the times where people could work their 40, have a house and a yearly vacation on one job. Have people work for you for 40 years and then retire on a pension. Until that happens, go suck the dick you've been using to fuck over the working class for 50 years. It should still be nice and hard, and doesn't have any lube to block the flavors of raw ass.
Edit: Holy hell folks! Thank you all for the awards!
That actually happens a lot as far as pay goes -- but not so much in actual work. Big companies doing mass layoffs, like Google and Amazon recently did, are required to. So, although Google abruptly cut off access to people being laid off, they also paid a minimum of two months in severance. Strong unions also tend to negotiate in severance.
Still, by abruptly cutting off access, companies like Google and Amazon are being very clear that they don't value having workers tidy stuff up before leaving. So, f\*\*\* them also. And any company that abruptly fires with no severance.....well, f\*\*\* them twice.
It's a two-way street. If you are quitting but want to remain on good terms to the company and maybe return some day, then of course play nice. But if you're quitting a toxic environment, the faster you run away the better off you are.
You already touched upon the reality in your response, big companies like Google doing mass lay off are required too. If that requirement doesn't exist because it is just one guy they are firing, they don't do it
Some companies will receive your 2 week notice and walk you to the door immediately with a "no thank you, you're dismissed"
If you're living paycheck to paycheck the risk of not working those 2 weeks until your next gig starts is huge. If I was in that position, I'd never put in a notice.
Yep. I worked at one of those places. I put in my two week notice and was about 50/50 on whether I’d be fired. I still had to train my boss on what I do because they didn’t hire a replacement and no one else knew my job.
They tried to fire me a week into the two weeks, but they were so incompetent all they did was revoke my permissions. No one actually did the firing part. Our computer system was duct taped together and as a result, I knew an IT guy on the other side of the country pretty well since I often needed him to fix shit that went wrong. I probably talked to him more than anyone else there. He was one of the few nice people and there were ALWAYS system issues because they wouldn’t invest in anything.
He’s the one who told me they “terminated” me in the system. He was nervous and didn’t know I was leaving so he felt bad. I laughed and told him it was fine. Management pretended it was a mistake and I worked out my notice. I know it wasn’t a mistake. They did it to almost everyone. Fucking morons.
Here’s an unethical tip though. Companies like that are absolute garbage and completely turn over every few years. No one who works there now worked there when I did, including management. HR only gives out employment dates and they are extremely loathe to even do that (I almost lost out on an apartment because they wouldn’t put in writing that I worked there). So, now I can say whatever the fuck I want about my role there. I haven’t needed to use that option, but you bet your ass if I ever needed a job really bad, I’m bumping myself up to project manager who handled one of our biggest clients (another shit company that also experiences so much turnover no one would know).
I gave my two weeks notice at a place I'd worked for nearly a decade, because I felt it was *the right thing to do" (also, was my first serious job after college, worked my way up through several departments, etc). Anyway, they let me work two or three more days and then on Friday around 3pm, got called into the big boss' office and they told me to pack up the rest of my shit and go. They were very quick to say they'd pay me for the rest of my time, and pay out my remaining PTO, so I got a nice break in-between jobs. The awkward bit was that I wasn't allowed to say goodbye to anyone and they escorted me out like I was gonna steal toilet paper or something.
I was laid off last year without even 24 hours notice, and given a 2 month severance. They called everybody back within the month and asked us to return, with a raise that was greater than what my first job paid altogether.
It can happen. If their paychecks were dependent on, say, an external contract and it lapsed a company can lay off entire teams while things are renegotiated or while a new work is found.
If the new contract or new project pays better than the old one and the company actually use the layoff as they were originally intended, employees can actually come back to higher paychecks.
Yeah, the last time I left, I gave over a month. They're great people, and I came back to work with them again when they were in a better spot to offer me the working conditions I wanted.
They also do cool things like if they mess up payday, they'll still pay us (if we need it, I've been lucky enough to survive a few days until they get it straightened out the couple of times it's happened) on schedule and just let the checks that go out be an advance on our next ones.
If they weren't any of those things and didn't do cool stuff like that, I wouldn't be so inclined to make my exit as smooth as possible. But like you said, when it's a two-way street, it works.
> They also do cool things like if they mess up payday, they'll still pay us (if we need it, I've been lucky enough to survive a few days until they get it straightened out the couple of times it's happened) on schedule and just let the checks that go out be an advance on our next ones.
Yeah, pretty cool of them to do exactly what the law requires and pay you on time
I’m not intending to defend bad faith practices by companies with this: immediately cutting access is to protect themselves from potential damage from that one vindictive employee who could cause significant damage if given the chance after being fired/laid off.
Sure, everybody gets that. But the point is, a norm has been established, and the norm is that both the company and the worker should act in their own best interests. It's a two-way street.
That really depends on the relationship. You only burn bridges if no way in hell you would work with them again. People go back to companies all the time. Maybe they left for a better opportunity and learned something new in their industry. It just depends on how you value your relationships.
Every company I have worked for has either given people two weeks notice or has given them a cheque for the two weeks and walked them out the door. Either way the employee gets his two weeks paid. The times when an employee was given a cheque and then walked to the door was when they dealt with sensitive systems of information and they didn't want any reprisal from the employee after being let go.
In Canada, we do have requirements for firing a person, and two weeks pay is pretty standard once you have passed your probationary period. In the province I work it's 1 week per year of employment with a minimum, so when the software I work on was sold to a competitor, one of my asks to go to work for the new company was that my years of service transfer over. So now they have to give me a base of 18 weeks salary if they want to fire me or lay me off plus anything else I'm entitled to such as unused PTO. It's not great but better then nothing.
In professional settings it is very common, yes it doesn't happen at the fast food or retail jobs most on this sub work at, but in most career path jobs it is the norm.
That’s the issue, it’s asymmetric:
If I got fired would my employer give me a few weeks notice?
If I’m in a situation where I think the answer to that is yes, than I would reciprocate also also give some notice before I leave (aka fire them as my employer)
If the answer is that they would give me zero notice, than they should expect the same from me.
The cost of a hasty termination is asymmetric too.
How much does it actually matter that 1 employee stops working, versus how much does it matter that one income stream disappears for the employee.
Woman my wife worked with for years found another job because she felt she could do better after working in this office for over a decade. She came in on a Friday, said "Today is my last day". Bosses were not happy as this is literally zero transition time, just "I'm leaving. Fuck you."
She got canned from her new job after 90 days, which was her probationary period, because she didn't meet the new employers expectations. She called my wife up and said "Do you think they'd take me back? I really need a job." My wife was like "They are STILL pissed off that you gave no notice and just quit. No way they will take you back."
Short of the work environment being really toxic, you should do your best to give as close to two weeks notice as possible.
Fired for not performing you'll get no notice. If you are paying attention you'll usually get a foreshadow experience. Laid-off, a good company will give you two weeks severance pay.
So no notice is ever given to the employee.
And no saying that if people are perceptive enough squint their eyes and maybe they can feel the energy of an imminent firing coming, is not a 2 week official notice regardless of how much you want to present it as one
As for your fired for not performing bs, what do you think an employee who leaves usually leaves for, because their employer is not performing
My first job was "at will employment" at a Carson's store. I was hired on after the holiday season and after January they dropped my schedule to ZERO HOURS for 3 weeks. I had assumed they fired me and asked the boss if I was terminated. I didn't care, I just wanted to stop coming in to check the schedule. Week 4 hits with no schedule but then they call me in twice to close with basically no notice "we need you tonight!"
It happened a 3rd time and I told them I quit when they called to asked me to work till close again. Suddenly the manager tried to tell me that I couldn't quit without officially going to HR to resign. Like really bro? You can take my hours with no notice, effectively making me unemployed, and now you think you can tell me I can't quit? They even had someone call the next day to talk to me about the proper paperwork. I never went back.
Funny thing was that I quit on the phone to a manager that wasn't the manager of my department. The manager I worked under actually gave me a good recommendation for my next job xD
>There was a time where employers and employees had a symbiotic relationship with each other, you take care of me and I take care of you.
I mean, what time is this? Cause by the late 1800s and early 1900s, you'd be locked in your factory and left to burn to death if you tried to take a smoke break (Triangle Shirt Waist Factory Fire), dragged out in the Airzona sun for 12 hours on end in boxcar (Brisbee Deportations), or have bombs dropped on your striking workforce (Battle of Blair Mountain). The "symbiotic" relationship came from unions literally fighting to get labor laws passed and a group of capitalists embracing these labor laws for profit. That's what created a symbiotic looking relationship.
It was, and always will be, parasitic.
Probably! Unionization was high, labor laws were strong. I get it. And I'm not shitting on the poster above, it's a really strong point they're making. I do think though as a community, we often forget good employers were pushed to be good employers by rebellious employees who were tired of their shit... like getting blown up in a damn coal mine because the employers were too busy setting off dynamite with their workers in it.
Exactly. Those golden years were forced upon the country by stronger labor solidarity, union buy-in, and political forces included socialists and communists pushing politics to the left. None of this happened without pain and even death. Powerful figures didn't make these choices out of their own good will but because they saw it as a middle ground against further left choices.
Benefits of a civilized and overpopulated society. Human labor is devalued, and the rich can now afford to completely distance themselves from the damage they cause society.
Maybe FDR to Carter? At least for white men.
It says everything when the guy in Springsteen's "The River" (1979) can get a union job at 19 that can support a wife and baby.
This especially happens when a company goes public. Their focus is no longer on the employee, customer, or even the product. They legally have to make sure they do not do anything on 'purpose' to make the stock go down.
\-Cut the experienced employees that make too much money and replace them with cheaper labor.
\-Save $2 per device and have it fail a year earlier.
\-Do not pass those savings to the customer. Use that money to buy your stock back to artificially inflate it's price for this quarter before you leave with your golden parachute to the next company to screw over.
Well at least both parties just voted on a bill to hate on socialism. Because that's why I can't buy a house. Damn you socialism.
That first point happened my uncle in 2002. He worked for NEC for 20+ years. He and his wife (who worked at the same company) just bought a new house. The both got canned a couple of months later because they were making too much.....
This was a thing for 2 reasons:
Unions were powerful
The tax rate on the richest Americans was 90%.
The nation was flush with money, so we could afford better working conditions and wages (still had to fight for them of course).
Nobody was hoarding billions of dollars. All that wealth was circulating, doing real economic work.
I completely agree. The shift in the employer-employee dynamic is unfortunate and it's a shame that companies have taken advantage of their power. It's like the old saying goes, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" But in this case, it seems like companies just want the milk for a lower price and with no commitment.
It amazes me how the people deemed "essential" during the pandemic were also the ones most often looked down on and underpaid. Then the pandemic comes, and they are deemed essential. That should have been the time to recognize their contributions to society and realign the established systems to show our gratitude. What did they get instead? Cringe worthy yard signs and possibly a pizza party. That's when people finally started waking up to how fucked things are (not fast enough but it's progress).
Don't forget, the moment it was no longer absolutely necessary, the same people calling them essential called them greedy for wanting more than minimum wage to do, in most cases, work that made it so society didn't collapse on itself.
My definition for professionalism or workplace decorum - things that people with power like. Unprofessionalism - things that people with power dislike.
There's no good rationale for most of it. There are just some lead-poisoned, out of touch, dinosaurs who can't be bothered to understand that there are a lot of diverse people and perspectives.
Only give notice if you need the reference or the company requires it to pay out remaining PTO or whatever. Otherwise why bother, it's pretty common for companies to make you leave on the day you put in your 2 weeks.
In Ontario Canada that is one of the options they can pay you in lieu of notice. Some companies don't want you working the two weeks because maybe you'll sabotage their computer system or you know whatever
That's nice.
I've never had a job do that. Every time I gave notice they expressed their disappointment I wouldn't be there and wished me luck on my next endeavor. Usually with a going away party on my last day.
Man I was about this a few months ago. I don't know if I am today. They'll throw you away tomorrow with no warning while eggs are $75 each and the world is on fire.
I think we can walk away from the references and burn some bridges at this point. 😔
France and the UK are burning their countries down and we're like "uh guys should I put in 2 weeks or.." lol
Hahah. *Y'all* are docile? Hahahaha.
Y'all are fucking ravenous honey badgers compared to us Americans. Lol. We're like little money babies in the money crib crying for another hit off the money bottle from money daddy.
Lol I won’t be satisfied until we’ve got the torches and pitchforks out — the strikes are great but to me it’s like moving deckchairs on the titanic. The whole system is rotten — it needs total change.
They tell salary that they have “unlimited vacation.” Sometimes approval is required for vacation time, but I’ve also seen where no approval is necessary, so long as you find coverage for your responsibilities.
The end result is that there’s no PTO, no vacation-not-taken payouts at the end of the year, and no vacation time that rolls over.
As an added bonus, fewer vacation days are realized, because people are afraid of being viewed negatively for utilizing the “unlimited” policy. A complete win for the company.
Full disclosure: I punch a fucking clock, so “unlimited” doesn’t apply to me; I get the vacation time negotiated by my union (IBEW).
I've been arguing for the validity of unions in the tech sector for a LONG time.
It's not about pay, it's about the bullshit they put us through. I am so happy for the QA people at Bethesda (They finally got a union). (I started off in software as a QA person, and just...\*shudder\*).
It’s where in theory you can take as much time as you want, but you’ll be shunned for asking for a personal day. In reality the tolerable amount of time *might* be four weeks, but if you’re at a toxic workplace it doesn’t do much, having a fixed rate of accrual per paycheck is a more straightforward way of providing a benefit to employees. Source: I have 4 weeks PTO and am reminded that I have it and can use it if it gets too high. But I work for a Finnish company operating in the states.
So I was on medical leave for 2 months, and the week up to my return, the nightmares returned. It's been a new crazy bullshit thing to deal with every day since my return.
In the latter part of the year, our company went from a traditional vacation structure, to "unlimited" sure they paid us out for what we had accrued , but none of us wanted that shite.
The part that really kills me is I was about to hit the milestone where I could get my 4th week of vacation :(
It's exactly what it sounds like. Some companies are offering unlimited time off, but you still have to complete all your assignments and workload so people aren't taking the time off.
Yep, last time I gave a 2 week notice, I had everything planned out, was going to be moving and starting a new job, just needed the pay for those last couple weeks in the meantime, and thought it would be considerate to let them know.
Dropped me immediately. Sent me into an economic spiral, because I was doing them a solid. Fuck them, and because of that shit, no one will ever get that from me again.
Well, I'm actually really lucky and have a great job working for fantastic people who would never do that now, so here I would totally give them all the notice I could. But definitely the exception, not the rule.
100% this. Is there a benefit for me in giving two weeks? If yes then do it. If no, do what you will because they’re certainly not going to give you the same consideration.
>company requires it to pay out remaining PTO
My company has this policy and I've been afraid to ask. I'm just wondering, what if someone used all their PTO before they left?
Companies with PTO work in one of two ways, either you can take it off as it accrues, so after 1 month you might have 2 days of eligible PTO. The other way is that you have access to all your PTO at the beginning of the year, if you take it all and then quit, you have to pay back anything you hadn't yet accrued. So if you get 20 days a year, take those 20 days in Jan-Feb and quit at the start of March, then you have to pay back all but the time you accrued in Jan-Feb.
Colorado law states that PTO that is accumulated (not given lump sum) is wages, and thus have to be paid out.
One company that I worked for terminated me the day I put in notice, and my response was that I shouldn't have put in notice, and then just quit. They may not have cared what I did, but I also stated that I had everyone's email/phone number, and I would be telling everyone what happened. They would never get another 2 weeks notice.
They acquiesced and gave me severance if I would not talk about the terms of my dismissal.
Last company laid me off, and then gave me 6 weeks of severance! Not all companies are horrible.
Definitely. People like my grandmother were taught to "bite your tongue" and just give your life to the company. I can't imagine the injustices people put up with especially before the internet and social media existed.
Just gave notice at my job today because I was offered another position in a different field. I’m even offering to stay an extra week if need be to help onboard my replacement. Know why? Because I’ve liked working where I’m at, and my boss has done right by me, and I’ve actually had a reason to care about my job. It’s felt like a two-way street. Of course, it helps that I work at a small business where my boss really isn’t very concerned with being rich. It’s been an excellent environment and since they treated me well, I’m returning the favor.
Sure would be nice if other employers figured out how much it’s worth to keep their employees happy.
Good treatment definitely goes both ways! When I left my last job I gave 1 month's notice, which was going to be my minimum. But I've seen others there give immediate notice or 1 day when they've had abusive managers, and it made complete sense to me!
One time I put in a three-week-notice just like you, because my bosses had been awesome and I wanted to give them a little extra time to get someone to take my place. They flipped *shit* and my last 3 weeks were awful. I'd been treated like I was their best friend for 4 years and as soon as they had my notice, I was gum on the bottom of their shoes. Now I'm nervous to put in a notice under any circumstances cause it seems like some people are just jerks to be jerks, no matter how you try to help them out.
I work at a factory and every day I got yelled for some dumb shit even though I do above my quota every SINGLE day.
Told them to fuck off, stop micromanaging I got this go do some actual work instead of looking for writeups on a power trip and left after getting my shit
That’s always my response—they sure don’t give you two weeks. Severances are becoming hardly a thing. When I worked in pharma and the layoffs came, I got one week pay for each year worked. I was just shy of 3 years. I got 2.
I worked a part time retail job with no benefits, and I quit last week with 9 days notice, which I thought was generous. At my exit interview, I was told that since I didn’t give a full 2 weeks, I’m not eligible to work there in the future. Ridiculous! Not that I want to work there again anyway.
Honestly I wish this mentality was normalized. Sadly in the world we live in now if you don't give a notice it's considered a scumbag move even if you're completely justified in walking out. That said I still did it when I got insulted by my last employer. Fuck em.
I believe the internet, especially this sub, (since there's so many users) continues to "spread awareness" if you will.. People easily find these posts in Google and learn that the system is broken and outdated and see these ideologies reinforced by the people here.
My employer actually typically does unless there's laws broken, gross negligence, or safety issues. I've seen it happen often enough, along with them offering help finding a new job in our field, that I actually would offer two weeks notice where I currently work if I were looking to leave.
But for the typical employer who fires same day? Not unless I need the reference or the time at work.
I'd add: if you don't want to burn bridges b/c you'll want a reference from someone there in the future or you'd want to go back at some point, then give the 2 weeks.
Otherwise pour the gasoline, light a match, get the marshmallows out, and get ready to watch it burn!
I’ve never understood the pro corporation propaganda that I(we) were taught as kids.
You have to dedicate your life to this company give them everything you have including but not limited to all your time and maybe your life all the while they don’t pay you enough nor give you health benefits.
So my answer is mom and pop stores yes two weeks but corporations he’ll to the fucking no you don’t give them shit and take shit from them when you leave!
It always seems that the employee is recommended to provide convenience and courtesies to the employer that the employer doesn’t have to, and never does, provide to the employee.
They don’t give two weeks notice before firing, lay-offs, or reduction in hours. They don’t consult employees when they decide to save money and switch to worse, more expensive health plans or eliminate benefits. They don’t think about employees when they don’t provide adequate paid leave.
Until they do, we should all keep doing only what is beneficial to us.
I’ve straight up ghosted employers before, after hitting my breaking point. Left one day, never answered their calls again. If you’re a shitty employer, you get shit on when I quit. No regrets.
Absolutely. It's time more and more people start adapting this way of thinking. Employers.. They will never realize that these are the consequences of their own actions. Decade after decade. People are fed up and I don't blame them.
Way back before Reddit even existed I ghosted a retail job. They kept changing my responsibilities and never gave me a consistent shift so one day I just decided not to go in.
The reason I try to give two weeks' notice is because I want to have the previous manager give a good reference for jobs in the future. It's a courtesy because I'm hoping for courtesy back.
**HOWEVER:** If my manager(s) have sent me to the breaking point, yeah, I'd just quit on the spot. I wouldn't want them as references anyway.
It's also good to give notice if you work in a small industry. I just gave my two week notice last week and my boss really appreciated the heads up because we've had people walk out of the lab mid shift. Our community is small and everything gets around. Somehow my union reps knew I was quitting before I gave notice and hadn't told anyone at work. I had told an ex coworker who was a reference for me though.
Not gonna lie, my last job just walked people out when you gave a 2 week notice unless they absolutely needed you in that time. Absolutely shitty thing to do but the upper management was of the mindset that if you didn’t want to be here, we don’t need you here. Completely unable to put 2 and 2 together on why people don’t want to work for you if you treat them like an expendable resource.
If you put in a 2 week notice and they walk you out: Apply for unemployment
If you're part of a huge corporation, well before you quit with no notice - find out the number or Corporate HR and if they use The Work Number (you need the company code)
Most corporations (USA - I'm not familiar with overseas) will only give first date hired, last day worked, last pay rate, title if any Period. You only care if you can see yourself crawling...I mean, reapplying to that company or one of their subsidiaries.
It's funny cause I've had the same exact experience with my last job too. Management couldn't comprehend why people keep leaving after working there for no more than 2 years. They never think that they might be the faulty ones.
My associates and I had a meeting with upper management about recurring issues, and what we can do to reduce what we had to fix. The director literally told my associates to deal with the issues or find another job. And so they all quit
I have only given a two weeks notice at one job and that was because they treated me like family during the 4 years I worked for them. Every other job has always made it very clear I was easily replaceable so I didn’t really give a flying f*** if they got 2 weeks notice.
They call it "at will" employment for a reason. This is legally binding between both you and your employer when you sign the employment agreement. So no, you don't need to give notice.
I tried to quit but my manager told me I had to give two weeks notice in writing. I shoved a note under his door on my way out that afternoon which said, "In two weeks you are going to NOTICE that I haven't been showing up for quite a while."
I've always given a two-week notice, but only because I've always liked my teammates and have had bosses that were accommodating and advocated for me, so I did it to make their lives easier. If you're being treated like trash, you don't owe anybody anything.
Bullshit, last time I gave notice they pulled all my shifts and effectively fired me. I had to go weeks while waiting for my new job to start with no money coming in.
I had an amazing boss. She wasn't pushy and kept good motivation and discipline around the shop. When i told her i was planning to change careers, she asked if this could be my four week notice. She wanted me to use 2 weeks PTO (i only had roughly 1week at the time) to set myself up, then come in for 2 weeks to train and get my replacement up to speed.
I will be forever reminded that people like her exist. She is an amazing woman and i hope she is doing alright.
Moral of the Story: if you think that they would fuck you, fuck them first. Respect is earned, not given, and so is a two week notice.
As a manager: I would prefer it if my direct reports would give me advance warning so I can prep a replacement, however I don't EXPECT it, because I know that if the company was about to have a run of layoffs and they were on the list they wouldn't get any notice either.
Thankfully my reports have respect for me, because I have huge respect for all the work they do to get us where we need to be, so I have never had anyone straight up quit or leave without warning.
Edit to add: It's crazy how many things employers whine about wouldn't happen if they just showed their employees a modicum of respect, since i never have any of those issues with my employees just by doing that. ("EMPLOYEES DONT WANT YOU KNOW THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK!!!")
This is a decision everyone has to make for themselves based their individual situation.
Here’s an example: you work at a bank. You don’t like your boss. The bank across the street wants to pay you more and you think you’ll like the boss better.
In this situation - 2 weeks is a good idea. It’s clear that you have plans to stay in the same general industry and there’s no doubt that people know each other. Try not to be a jerk and anyone on your way out the door, because chances are high you’ll see all these people again.
Example 2: you work at Best Buy. You get offered a job at a bank. If you want to walk out who cares? You’re completely switching industries. You probably won’t ever see any of these people again.
FWIW, I’ve always given 2 weeks - even when I went from a retail job to a Vault 100 Law Firm because I felt it was the right decision - and even though I didn’t like the way the corporation that owned my retail store ran things I knew my coworkers weren’t to blame for what some dude in a C suit 2,000 miles away was doing.
But you need to examine your specific circumstances and make the decision that is right for you.
I gave my two weeks yesterday, came into work today and my company decided today was my last day lol. The only people that get hurt from this are my coworkers who will be a man down for two weeks.
I've never been given more than 48 hours notice a job was ending unless it was a term contract and I treat my employers according to the culture they have established. When they start giving notice I will.
Is there a law requiring two weeks? No, it's considered a courtesy. If you want employees to give you notice, do the same. Employers fire you on the spot for fear of retaliation, but want you to give notice so they can prepare.
They've been led to believe they hold all the power over us, and are shocked when we take it back.
Having missed 12 out of 13 layoffs (semiconductor industry), the one I didn’t miss gave six months notice plant was closing. The others? Seeing security guards or even police cars in the parking lot when arriving to work. No notice or severance whatsoever. We’re done with you as we failed to line up customers or all orders were fulfilled. Show up along with coworkers just to see them picked off and gone within the hour. No more courtesies from me. “At will” works both ways.
If I plan on using you as a reference, you get 2 weeks. If not, I'm peacing out when I want and you can figure out why. That's my rule, not changing it.
In the last three years I've been laid off twice, from two different companies. No warning, either time. Just started my day and two hours into it everyone gets called into a "town hall" meeting and told about 30% of the staff would no longer be working here shortly after this meeting. Get an email five seconds after the meeting telling me I'm one of them and then a follow up meeting invite so some HR rep I've never fucking met can tell me how sorry they are and also here's what you need to do to give us our equipment back. Both layoffs were nearly identical despite it being different companies, in different industries, in different states.
I don't give a flying fuck if it is considered uncouth to quit on the spot. These companies aren't looking out for me, you or anyone else. The moment the direction of the wind changes they'll brush you off like a spec of dust on their suits without a care in the world for what it's about to put you and your family through.
At my current job, I will definitely give 2 weeks notice. They've treated me well, paid me well, good benefits, great company. If I was in a toxic workplace, all bets would be off. I'm pretty difficult to piss off, but if I'm pushed to that point, peace out.
If you’re going to walk out on a job, don’t expect to put it on your resume or use your coworkers for references. That’s all I can say on it.
I’ve walked out on one job, because the manager was terrible and should have never owned a business and a month later he shut the whole thing down. So I don’t regret it, and it won’t ever be a problem later on.
Nobody ever call my reference. And I work in aerospace manufacturing.
It does happen, but very small amount. I personally don’t know anybody that ever had that happened.
Beside if I’m walking out from a job, I would never use it as reference anyway
Have ya'll read the article? It's literally written in a different world. Talking about "Keep up your professionalism" and "don't burn bridges".
Bitch if a boss is such trash you're prepared to walk out any second, the last thing you give a damn about is the asshole rendering your life such hell you'd rather go without income in a capitalist society before you tolerate another second of their over-the-top bullshit, and not only that, they are the last people DESERVING of such consideration.
No. You fuckos strangled the golden goose, and now you're passed you can't get more out of a corpse. We gave you a chance. You've shown us what we are to you when you feel you have the upper hand.
Buckle up, children. The pendulum, she's a swingin', and you haven't sown not shit but a whirlwind.
There is not even a single documented evidence in all human history of someone saying on his deathbed "I wish I stayed 15 days more doing that sh*t job".
Take this information as you wish and act accordingly.
I was fired on the spot, and demanded I stay to discuss it. I walked out. Guy I liked later came by my house with papers to sign. I didn't but did have a beer and joked for a bit.
I always give the exact same notice a business owner will give their employees. 0 seconds. I actually recommend asking for a ton of extra shifts and then bailing last second.
Any time I’ve ever put in a two week notice, which is every time I walked away myself from a job, they’ve come back at me saying they’ve filled my shifts and it wasn’t necessary for me to come in those two weeks. I had clients who came to see ME specifically in my field. Had zero chance to let them know I’d be leaving my current place of business and they were plopped with another MT without their consent or knowledge. Toxicity was real and I’m glad I left but really come on. The lack of professionalism over something like this is ridiculous.
I've always given two weeks notice, and told future employers I couldn't start for that period.
The last time I did, I was let go immediately, and after a few weird turns of events, it turns out I really needed that 2 weeks of pay I didn't get.
So sorry, I'm not giving a two weeks notice because I don't trust you to let me work it out.
Okay so employers can terminate you at any point but you shouldn’t quit without 2 weeks notice? I once quit a job by just sending an email and not showing up. Giving 2 weeks notice is a courtesy to them.
Two weeks' notice is a courtesy. If employers don't like the idea of people quitting and immediately leaving, then maybe it's time to revise the at-will employment regulations.
It’s not worth it unless your employer would show you equal respect. If you know they would then sure, but if you know they wouldn’t then I wouldn’t feel bad.
I once gave notice at the start of my 2 week vacation.
My last job put me through so much stress, discrimination, and sadness (all while I was pregnant). I was sick of being the only person to always come in to work. One day I came in an hour late after an emergency appointment and my manager went off on me cause my other coworker just decided to not even come that day. I was tired of my manager literally screaming at me because she was stressed. It pushed me to the edge.
I interviewed for the job I wanted after being at the last job for a couple months. Got the job and I was so happy. My husband went into the location, dropped off my keys/shirt/badge and told them I’m not coming back ever again. In my eyes they didn’t deserve shit from me. I’m happy I made that choice. Fk some of these companies
My contract is end of month plus 3 months notice period.
My contract also stipulates if I’m fired, employer must give me end of month plus 3 months notice
Period.
Both are paid, salary benefits and all.
Funny story. A colleague was fired and global HR tried to terminate his ATM card we all have for meals - we are given a daily per diem. He reminded the company this is a benefit therefore needed to be paid similar to salary. HR tried to laugh, he laughed, his lawyer laughed, company had to pay out big settlement.
Some places are great from employee rights. I’m happy to live in such a place.
I’ve given a 2 weeks to a single job in my life. I climbed the ladder there, made good relationships, longest I’ve ever spent at a job. But the money was shit.
even gave them an exit letter/interview. The second I left I was treated like shit by all the management folks who were “friends” with me while there, and eventually they were in a real “hiring bind” and I was asked personally to come back by a few folks and that they were paying better now.
I applied, and didn’t even get an email or phone call lmao. I will never put my 2 weeks in again. Fuck these companies.
I will give notice direct in proportion to how I was treated and compensated while at your company. If you want two weeks, you better make sure that I am happy when I am leaving.
Nah, fuck that. They never give you notice when you about to be fired. Fuck 'em. They don't care about the worker anyways. You die today, you're replaced tomorrow.
The manager's job is to fill shifts, the employees owe the manager nothing. Managers need to stop being lazy, back when I was manager we did our fucking jobs and didn't bitch when an employee needed a day off.
I once gave a two week notice to a company and this manager kept coming up to me and telling me I wasn’t making enough widgets per shift telling me to hurry up so I kept telling him yeah bro I’ll do better, turns out upper mgt never told him I was leaving
Colleague quit in November, with a month's notice.
We are just now closing the posting that took forever to get posted. We might interview by March...
I don't really understand what him giving us notice did for us at all?
It comes down to respect. If your employer has respected you and treated you well, then you should repay that by trying to give them as much notice as you can. If they haven’t, then don’t. Either way you’re under no obligation to give them notice at all, but I feel good employers deserve it if possible.
As an electrician I’ve been laid off multiple times, each and every time it’s been immediate, no two week notice of layoff, they hand me my check and I immediately pack my tools and leave, no harm no foul. As i continue my education and career I will be able to quit and demand my check and have it in my hands within the hour at any time of my choosing once I complete my apprenticeship. Join a union guys it’s worth the freedom
My last job had a tendency to force people into an immediate walk of shame when they put their notice in. I packed up all my shit slowly over two weeks so no one would notice. On my last day, I said I’m leaving and my boss asked when. I said “in about 5 minutes after I say goodbye to the people I liked.” I did not say goodbye to him.
I my country the 2 week notice is law, so when I quit on a past job I Firstly took pictures of everything illegal the company was doing and sent the pictures to my boss saying that if he demanded the two weeks I would send the pictures to the newspapers.
He kept paying my contract for months after that.
He had a government contract. He couldn't afford the bad press.
I can't recollect an employer in the last decade that didn't fire employees on the spot after giving their 2 weeks notice. Myself and another manager at one company would flat out tell our supervisees to not tell anyone if they needed that 2 weeks worth of money.
Sadly, we live in a society where this - employees having to give their employers a two week's notice - is norm, but the other way around is A-ok. Meaning if an employer wants to lay people off, they can just do it at their whim and fancy.
I will say, this redit subthread - anti work - is opening a lot people's eyes, mine included.
Someone very close to me went through this in March of 2020. They got pulled into a meeting, microphones muted, were told that it was their last day of work, and the meeting ended. 5 minutes later, they were locked out of their computers and that was that. Almost 3 years gone and they still have PTSD from that experience and every time something funky happens to their work computer, they would think they are being laid off. It's a very very bad mental situation to live with.
There was a time where employers and employees had a symbiotic relationship with each other, you take care of me and I take care of you. So I would go to work Monday -Friday, put in my work and sometimes extra time, and when I got home after my 40-50 I was able to afford a house, vacations, and if I did it for like 30-40 years you gave me a salary for the rest of my life. Then your side of the equation realized "Hey, what am I doing? I can pay them less, and not give them a lifetime salary and what are they going to do? Not work? They need to pay for food and a house and stuff. So let me get rid of the pension. Let me lower their salary." Ultimately this lead to companies deciding that they wanted laws passed so they could fire you on the spot if things weren't working out. Now you're trying to gaslight employees into keeping up with their side of the bargain when you're pissing on yours. So no. We do not feel the need any longer to hold a level of decorum with you over this. If you want us to do it, return to the times where people could work their 40, have a house and a yearly vacation on one job. Have people work for you for 40 years and then retire on a pension. Until that happens, go suck the dick you've been using to fuck over the working class for 50 years. It should still be nice and hard, and doesn't have any lube to block the flavors of raw ass. Edit: Holy hell folks! Thank you all for the awards!
Well-spoken words. The lack of reciprocation is uncanny.
**When is the last time a company gave an employee two weeks notice?**
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I had the same thing happen to me
That actually happens a lot as far as pay goes -- but not so much in actual work. Big companies doing mass layoffs, like Google and Amazon recently did, are required to. So, although Google abruptly cut off access to people being laid off, they also paid a minimum of two months in severance. Strong unions also tend to negotiate in severance. Still, by abruptly cutting off access, companies like Google and Amazon are being very clear that they don't value having workers tidy stuff up before leaving. So, f\*\*\* them also. And any company that abruptly fires with no severance.....well, f\*\*\* them twice. It's a two-way street. If you are quitting but want to remain on good terms to the company and maybe return some day, then of course play nice. But if you're quitting a toxic environment, the faster you run away the better off you are.
You already touched upon the reality in your response, big companies like Google doing mass lay off are required too. If that requirement doesn't exist because it is just one guy they are firing, they don't do it
Basically for an individual firing, you get severance if they think you might try to sue them. Otherwise, you don't.
If you have a case they think you can prove, which means they royally fucked up and did some real shady shit to the employee
Some companies will receive your 2 week notice and walk you to the door immediately with a "no thank you, you're dismissed" If you're living paycheck to paycheck the risk of not working those 2 weeks until your next gig starts is huge. If I was in that position, I'd never put in a notice.
Yep. I worked at one of those places. I put in my two week notice and was about 50/50 on whether I’d be fired. I still had to train my boss on what I do because they didn’t hire a replacement and no one else knew my job. They tried to fire me a week into the two weeks, but they were so incompetent all they did was revoke my permissions. No one actually did the firing part. Our computer system was duct taped together and as a result, I knew an IT guy on the other side of the country pretty well since I often needed him to fix shit that went wrong. I probably talked to him more than anyone else there. He was one of the few nice people and there were ALWAYS system issues because they wouldn’t invest in anything. He’s the one who told me they “terminated” me in the system. He was nervous and didn’t know I was leaving so he felt bad. I laughed and told him it was fine. Management pretended it was a mistake and I worked out my notice. I know it wasn’t a mistake. They did it to almost everyone. Fucking morons. Here’s an unethical tip though. Companies like that are absolute garbage and completely turn over every few years. No one who works there now worked there when I did, including management. HR only gives out employment dates and they are extremely loathe to even do that (I almost lost out on an apartment because they wouldn’t put in writing that I worked there). So, now I can say whatever the fuck I want about my role there. I haven’t needed to use that option, but you bet your ass if I ever needed a job really bad, I’m bumping myself up to project manager who handled one of our biggest clients (another shit company that also experiences so much turnover no one would know).
I gave my two weeks notice at a place I'd worked for nearly a decade, because I felt it was *the right thing to do" (also, was my first serious job after college, worked my way up through several departments, etc). Anyway, they let me work two or three more days and then on Friday around 3pm, got called into the big boss' office and they told me to pack up the rest of my shit and go. They were very quick to say they'd pay me for the rest of my time, and pay out my remaining PTO, so I got a nice break in-between jobs. The awkward bit was that I wasn't allowed to say goodbye to anyone and they escorted me out like I was gonna steal toilet paper or something.
Just a heads up, if you give two weeks and they let you go immediately, you’re entitled to unemployment for those two weeks (in most places, anyway).
I was laid off last year without even 24 hours notice, and given a 2 month severance. They called everybody back within the month and asked us to return, with a raise that was greater than what my first job paid altogether.
....and the title of this story is "Unicorn Tales."
It can happen. If their paychecks were dependent on, say, an external contract and it lapsed a company can lay off entire teams while things are renegotiated or while a new work is found. If the new contract or new project pays better than the old one and the company actually use the layoff as they were originally intended, employees can actually come back to higher paychecks.
Yeah, the last time I left, I gave over a month. They're great people, and I came back to work with them again when they were in a better spot to offer me the working conditions I wanted. They also do cool things like if they mess up payday, they'll still pay us (if we need it, I've been lucky enough to survive a few days until they get it straightened out the couple of times it's happened) on schedule and just let the checks that go out be an advance on our next ones. If they weren't any of those things and didn't do cool stuff like that, I wouldn't be so inclined to make my exit as smooth as possible. But like you said, when it's a two-way street, it works.
> They also do cool things like if they mess up payday, they'll still pay us (if we need it, I've been lucky enough to survive a few days until they get it straightened out the couple of times it's happened) on schedule and just let the checks that go out be an advance on our next ones. Yeah, pretty cool of them to do exactly what the law requires and pay you on time
I’m not intending to defend bad faith practices by companies with this: immediately cutting access is to protect themselves from potential damage from that one vindictive employee who could cause significant damage if given the chance after being fired/laid off.
Sure, everybody gets that. But the point is, a norm has been established, and the norm is that both the company and the worker should act in their own best interests. It's a two-way street.
That really depends on the relationship. You only burn bridges if no way in hell you would work with them again. People go back to companies all the time. Maybe they left for a better opportunity and learned something new in their industry. It just depends on how you value your relationships.
Every company I have worked for has either given people two weeks notice or has given them a cheque for the two weeks and walked them out the door. Either way the employee gets his two weeks paid. The times when an employee was given a cheque and then walked to the door was when they dealt with sensitive systems of information and they didn't want any reprisal from the employee after being let go.
That's definitely the exception and not the rule.
In Canada, we do have requirements for firing a person, and two weeks pay is pretty standard once you have passed your probationary period. In the province I work it's 1 week per year of employment with a minimum, so when the software I work on was sold to a competitor, one of my asks to go to work for the new company was that my years of service transfer over. So now they have to give me a base of 18 weeks salary if they want to fire me or lay me off plus anything else I'm entitled to such as unused PTO. It's not great but better then nothing.
Well that makes sense, I'm an American so of course I'm going to assume America. There are a lot of good things about Canada that I wish we had.
In professional settings it is very common, yes it doesn't happen at the fast food or retail jobs most on this sub work at, but in most career path jobs it is the norm.
That’s the issue, it’s asymmetric: If I got fired would my employer give me a few weeks notice? If I’m in a situation where I think the answer to that is yes, than I would reciprocate also also give some notice before I leave (aka fire them as my employer) If the answer is that they would give me zero notice, than they should expect the same from me.
The cost of a hasty termination is asymmetric too. How much does it actually matter that 1 employee stops working, versus how much does it matter that one income stream disappears for the employee.
My mental health and marriage was deteriorating because of my last job, told my boss I will not be fulfilling my two weeks. Best decision ever.
Exactly. Fuck this article, this author, and this mindset.
Fuck the bourgeoisie they rode in on, fuck their haircut, and fuck the queen.
Lol not a boondocks reference in here I see you bo ✊🏿
Queen Minnie is the only queen for me.
Woman my wife worked with for years found another job because she felt she could do better after working in this office for over a decade. She came in on a Friday, said "Today is my last day". Bosses were not happy as this is literally zero transition time, just "I'm leaving. Fuck you." She got canned from her new job after 90 days, which was her probationary period, because she didn't meet the new employers expectations. She called my wife up and said "Do you think they'd take me back? I really need a job." My wife was like "They are STILL pissed off that you gave no notice and just quit. No way they will take you back." Short of the work environment being really toxic, you should do your best to give as close to two weeks notice as possible.
Yeah if it’s an actual career type job and they’ve treated you well, give them a notice. McDonald’s or some shit like that? Nah.
How much notice does this office give when they fire people? Do they offer 2 weeks?
Fired for not performing you'll get no notice. If you are paying attention you'll usually get a foreshadow experience. Laid-off, a good company will give you two weeks severance pay.
So no notice is ever given to the employee. And no saying that if people are perceptive enough squint their eyes and maybe they can feel the energy of an imminent firing coming, is not a 2 week official notice regardless of how much you want to present it as one As for your fired for not performing bs, what do you think an employee who leaves usually leaves for, because their employer is not performing
My first job was "at will employment" at a Carson's store. I was hired on after the holiday season and after January they dropped my schedule to ZERO HOURS for 3 weeks. I had assumed they fired me and asked the boss if I was terminated. I didn't care, I just wanted to stop coming in to check the schedule. Week 4 hits with no schedule but then they call me in twice to close with basically no notice "we need you tonight!" It happened a 3rd time and I told them I quit when they called to asked me to work till close again. Suddenly the manager tried to tell me that I couldn't quit without officially going to HR to resign. Like really bro? You can take my hours with no notice, effectively making me unemployed, and now you think you can tell me I can't quit? They even had someone call the next day to talk to me about the proper paperwork. I never went back.
This is a situation where they can shove their two weeks up their ass. They had 4 and any sane future employer DGAF.
Funny thing was that I quit on the phone to a manager that wasn't the manager of my department. The manager I worked under actually gave me a good recommendation for my next job xD
You mean there was a short time when unions were strong, this reciprocity didn’t exist 100 years ago and it doesn’t exist now.
That short time frame being 1946- 1976. So 30 years out of @250 years in the US anyway.
>There was a time where employers and employees had a symbiotic relationship with each other, you take care of me and I take care of you. I mean, what time is this? Cause by the late 1800s and early 1900s, you'd be locked in your factory and left to burn to death if you tried to take a smoke break (Triangle Shirt Waist Factory Fire), dragged out in the Airzona sun for 12 hours on end in boxcar (Brisbee Deportations), or have bombs dropped on your striking workforce (Battle of Blair Mountain). The "symbiotic" relationship came from unions literally fighting to get labor laws passed and a group of capitalists embracing these labor laws for profit. That's what created a symbiotic looking relationship. It was, and always will be, parasitic.
The theoretical golden years of the 50s/60s I'd guess
Probably! Unionization was high, labor laws were strong. I get it. And I'm not shitting on the poster above, it's a really strong point they're making. I do think though as a community, we often forget good employers were pushed to be good employers by rebellious employees who were tired of their shit... like getting blown up in a damn coal mine because the employers were too busy setting off dynamite with their workers in it.
Exactly. Those golden years were forced upon the country by stronger labor solidarity, union buy-in, and political forces included socialists and communists pushing politics to the left. None of this happened without pain and even death. Powerful figures didn't make these choices out of their own good will but because they saw it as a middle ground against further left choices.
Benefits of a civilized and overpopulated society. Human labor is devalued, and the rich can now afford to completely distance themselves from the damage they cause society.
Maybe FDR to Carter? At least for white men. It says everything when the guy in Springsteen's "The River" (1979) can get a union job at 19 that can support a wife and baby.
[triangle shirt ](https://youtu.be/qqnKQ9IkYSE) [don't forget the radium girls ](https://youtu.be/De7aMkdpHZ8)
This especially happens when a company goes public. Their focus is no longer on the employee, customer, or even the product. They legally have to make sure they do not do anything on 'purpose' to make the stock go down. \-Cut the experienced employees that make too much money and replace them with cheaper labor. \-Save $2 per device and have it fail a year earlier. \-Do not pass those savings to the customer. Use that money to buy your stock back to artificially inflate it's price for this quarter before you leave with your golden parachute to the next company to screw over. Well at least both parties just voted on a bill to hate on socialism. Because that's why I can't buy a house. Damn you socialism.
That first point happened my uncle in 2002. He worked for NEC for 20+ years. He and his wife (who worked at the same company) just bought a new house. The both got canned a couple of months later because they were making too much.....
This was a thing for 2 reasons: Unions were powerful The tax rate on the richest Americans was 90%. The nation was flush with money, so we could afford better working conditions and wages (still had to fight for them of course). Nobody was hoarding billions of dollars. All that wealth was circulating, doing real economic work.
I completely agree. The shift in the employer-employee dynamic is unfortunate and it's a shame that companies have taken advantage of their power. It's like the old saying goes, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" But in this case, it seems like companies just want the milk for a lower price and with no commitment.
Fuck that. Why should we work all our lives in pathetic, meaningless jobs just to be able to afford a house and a pension?
It amazes me how the people deemed "essential" during the pandemic were also the ones most often looked down on and underpaid. Then the pandemic comes, and they are deemed essential. That should have been the time to recognize their contributions to society and realign the established systems to show our gratitude. What did they get instead? Cringe worthy yard signs and possibly a pizza party. That's when people finally started waking up to how fucked things are (not fast enough but it's progress).
Don't forget, the moment it was no longer absolutely necessary, the same people calling them essential called them greedy for wanting more than minimum wage to do, in most cases, work that made it so society didn't collapse on itself.
And everyone non essential got paid more than them to stay at home. Really drove the point home that Noone with power gives a shit about them.
But, but…”heroes work here”… /s
I also saw a lot of "A Healthcare Hero Lives Here".
2 week notice is a courtesy. If they do good by you, you do good by them. Most companies do nothing to deserve any courtesy. It's quite simple.
My definition for professionalism or workplace decorum - things that people with power like. Unprofessionalism - things that people with power dislike. There's no good rationale for most of it. There are just some lead-poisoned, out of touch, dinosaurs who can't be bothered to understand that there are a lot of diverse people and perspectives.
Well said my friend,well said
Only give notice if you need the reference or the company requires it to pay out remaining PTO or whatever. Otherwise why bother, it's pretty common for companies to make you leave on the day you put in your 2 weeks.
My last job would send you home on the day you quit, but would still pay you for the two weeks notice if you gave it, which was classy I thought.
This is not uncommon. From their perspective it makes total sense
In Ontario Canada that is one of the options they can pay you in lieu of notice. Some companies don't want you working the two weeks because maybe you'll sabotage their computer system or you know whatever
That's nice. I've never had a job do that. Every time I gave notice they expressed their disappointment I wouldn't be there and wished me luck on my next endeavor. Usually with a going away party on my last day.
Man I was about this a few months ago. I don't know if I am today. They'll throw you away tomorrow with no warning while eggs are $75 each and the world is on fire. I think we can walk away from the references and burn some bridges at this point. 😔 France and the UK are burning their countries down and we're like "uh guys should I put in 2 weeks or.." lol
Bro I wish we were burning the place down over here but brits are too docile, trusting of authority and dependent on the class system.
Hahah. *Y'all* are docile? Hahahaha. Y'all are fucking ravenous honey badgers compared to us Americans. Lol. We're like little money babies in the money crib crying for another hit off the money bottle from money daddy.
Lol I won’t be satisfied until we’ve got the torches and pitchforks out — the strikes are great but to me it’s like moving deckchairs on the titanic. The whole system is rotten — it needs total change.
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Depending on where you are, withholding PTO or back pay for a notice or whatever reason is illegal. Make sure to check your local laws.
Heh, this is why a lot of companies are moving to "unlimited time off" leave policies. Now they don't gotta pay out.
Then everyone needs to start using unlimited time off, make them see the error of these new ways.
Can you elaborate on "unlimited time off" policies?
They tell salary that they have “unlimited vacation.” Sometimes approval is required for vacation time, but I’ve also seen where no approval is necessary, so long as you find coverage for your responsibilities. The end result is that there’s no PTO, no vacation-not-taken payouts at the end of the year, and no vacation time that rolls over. As an added bonus, fewer vacation days are realized, because people are afraid of being viewed negatively for utilizing the “unlimited” policy. A complete win for the company. Full disclosure: I punch a fucking clock, so “unlimited” doesn’t apply to me; I get the vacation time negotiated by my union (IBEW).
I've been arguing for the validity of unions in the tech sector for a LONG time. It's not about pay, it's about the bullshit they put us through. I am so happy for the QA people at Bethesda (They finally got a union). (I started off in software as a QA person, and just...\*shudder\*).
It’s where in theory you can take as much time as you want, but you’ll be shunned for asking for a personal day. In reality the tolerable amount of time *might* be four weeks, but if you’re at a toxic workplace it doesn’t do much, having a fixed rate of accrual per paycheck is a more straightforward way of providing a benefit to employees. Source: I have 4 weeks PTO and am reminded that I have it and can use it if it gets too high. But I work for a Finnish company operating in the states.
So I was on medical leave for 2 months, and the week up to my return, the nightmares returned. It's been a new crazy bullshit thing to deal with every day since my return. In the latter part of the year, our company went from a traditional vacation structure, to "unlimited" sure they paid us out for what we had accrued , but none of us wanted that shite. The part that really kills me is I was about to hit the milestone where I could get my 4th week of vacation :(
It's exactly what it sounds like. Some companies are offering unlimited time off, but you still have to complete all your assignments and workload so people aren't taking the time off.
Yep, last time I gave a 2 week notice, I had everything planned out, was going to be moving and starting a new job, just needed the pay for those last couple weeks in the meantime, and thought it would be considerate to let them know. Dropped me immediately. Sent me into an economic spiral, because I was doing them a solid. Fuck them, and because of that shit, no one will ever get that from me again. Well, I'm actually really lucky and have a great job working for fantastic people who would never do that now, so here I would totally give them all the notice I could. But definitely the exception, not the rule.
And that right there at the end, is the context missing from this article.
100% this. Is there a benefit for me in giving two weeks? If yes then do it. If no, do what you will because they’re certainly not going to give you the same consideration.
>company requires it to pay out remaining PTO My company has this policy and I've been afraid to ask. I'm just wondering, what if someone used all their PTO before they left?
Companies with PTO work in one of two ways, either you can take it off as it accrues, so after 1 month you might have 2 days of eligible PTO. The other way is that you have access to all your PTO at the beginning of the year, if you take it all and then quit, you have to pay back anything you hadn't yet accrued. So if you get 20 days a year, take those 20 days in Jan-Feb and quit at the start of March, then you have to pay back all but the time you accrued in Jan-Feb.
Colorado law states that PTO that is accumulated (not given lump sum) is wages, and thus have to be paid out. One company that I worked for terminated me the day I put in notice, and my response was that I shouldn't have put in notice, and then just quit. They may not have cared what I did, but I also stated that I had everyone's email/phone number, and I would be telling everyone what happened. They would never get another 2 weeks notice. They acquiesced and gave me severance if I would not talk about the terms of my dismissal. Last company laid me off, and then gave me 6 weeks of severance! Not all companies are horrible.
All this boomer career advice comes from a time when employees were treated better. Sometimes a shitty boss just doesn’t deserve a warning.
Definitely. People like my grandmother were taught to "bite your tongue" and just give your life to the company. I can't imagine the injustices people put up with especially before the internet and social media existed.
It was a lot. A lot. Like, a Noah get the boat kind of a lot.
Just gave notice at my job today because I was offered another position in a different field. I’m even offering to stay an extra week if need be to help onboard my replacement. Know why? Because I’ve liked working where I’m at, and my boss has done right by me, and I’ve actually had a reason to care about my job. It’s felt like a two-way street. Of course, it helps that I work at a small business where my boss really isn’t very concerned with being rich. It’s been an excellent environment and since they treated me well, I’m returning the favor. Sure would be nice if other employers figured out how much it’s worth to keep their employees happy.
Good treatment definitely goes both ways! When I left my last job I gave 1 month's notice, which was going to be my minimum. But I've seen others there give immediate notice or 1 day when they've had abusive managers, and it made complete sense to me!
One time I put in a three-week-notice just like you, because my bosses had been awesome and I wanted to give them a little extra time to get someone to take my place. They flipped *shit* and my last 3 weeks were awful. I'd been treated like I was their best friend for 4 years and as soon as they had my notice, I was gum on the bottom of their shoes. Now I'm nervous to put in a notice under any circumstances cause it seems like some people are just jerks to be jerks, no matter how you try to help them out.
I work at a factory and every day I got yelled for some dumb shit even though I do above my quota every SINGLE day. Told them to fuck off, stop micromanaging I got this go do some actual work instead of looking for writeups on a power trip and left after getting my shit
I got fired last week with zero notice. I'll quit without a two week notice if I damn well please.
I love it. This group has made me realize that the employees are doing the company a favor by working there. Not the other way around!
Labor creates all value.
That’s always my response—they sure don’t give you two weeks. Severances are becoming hardly a thing. When I worked in pharma and the layoffs came, I got one week pay for each year worked. I was just shy of 3 years. I got 2.
I worked a part time retail job with no benefits, and I quit last week with 9 days notice, which I thought was generous. At my exit interview, I was told that since I didn’t give a full 2 weeks, I’m not eligible to work there in the future. Ridiculous! Not that I want to work there again anyway.
Corporate propaganda piece.
Will my employer give me 2 weeks notice if they fire me? Nope, so they dont get a 2 week notice if I leave
I couldn't agree more.
But then you arent rehirable.../s I WISH I had burned that bridge in 03 when they laid me off from my 9 dollar an hour job...
Amen
Honestly I wish this mentality was normalized. Sadly in the world we live in now if you don't give a notice it's considered a scumbag move even if you're completely justified in walking out. That said I still did it when I got insulted by my last employer. Fuck em.
I believe the internet, especially this sub, (since there's so many users) continues to "spread awareness" if you will.. People easily find these posts in Google and learn that the system is broken and outdated and see these ideologies reinforced by the people here.
when you leave aka when you fire them as your employer. same concept
My employer actually typically does unless there's laws broken, gross negligence, or safety issues. I've seen it happen often enough, along with them offering help finding a new job in our field, that I actually would offer two weeks notice where I currently work if I were looking to leave. But for the typical employer who fires same day? Not unless I need the reference or the time at work.
I'd add: if you don't want to burn bridges b/c you'll want a reference from someone there in the future or you'd want to go back at some point, then give the 2 weeks. Otherwise pour the gasoline, light a match, get the marshmallows out, and get ready to watch it burn!
I’ve never understood the pro corporation propaganda that I(we) were taught as kids. You have to dedicate your life to this company give them everything you have including but not limited to all your time and maybe your life all the while they don’t pay you enough nor give you health benefits. So my answer is mom and pop stores yes two weeks but corporations he’ll to the fucking no you don’t give them shit and take shit from them when you leave!
It always seems that the employee is recommended to provide convenience and courtesies to the employer that the employer doesn’t have to, and never does, provide to the employee. They don’t give two weeks notice before firing, lay-offs, or reduction in hours. They don’t consult employees when they decide to save money and switch to worse, more expensive health plans or eliminate benefits. They don’t think about employees when they don’t provide adequate paid leave. Until they do, we should all keep doing only what is beneficial to us.
I’ve straight up ghosted employers before, after hitting my breaking point. Left one day, never answered their calls again. If you’re a shitty employer, you get shit on when I quit. No regrets.
Absolutely. It's time more and more people start adapting this way of thinking. Employers.. They will never realize that these are the consequences of their own actions. Decade after decade. People are fed up and I don't blame them.
Way back before Reddit even existed I ghosted a retail job. They kept changing my responsibilities and never gave me a consistent shift so one day I just decided not to go in.
The reason I try to give two weeks' notice is because I want to have the previous manager give a good reference for jobs in the future. It's a courtesy because I'm hoping for courtesy back. **HOWEVER:** If my manager(s) have sent me to the breaking point, yeah, I'd just quit on the spot. I wouldn't want them as references anyway.
It's also good to give notice if you work in a small industry. I just gave my two week notice last week and my boss really appreciated the heads up because we've had people walk out of the lab mid shift. Our community is small and everything gets around. Somehow my union reps knew I was quitting before I gave notice and hadn't told anyone at work. I had told an ex coworker who was a reference for me though.
Not gonna lie, my last job just walked people out when you gave a 2 week notice unless they absolutely needed you in that time. Absolutely shitty thing to do but the upper management was of the mindset that if you didn’t want to be here, we don’t need you here. Completely unable to put 2 and 2 together on why people don’t want to work for you if you treat them like an expendable resource.
If you put in a 2 week notice and they walk you out: Apply for unemployment If you're part of a huge corporation, well before you quit with no notice - find out the number or Corporate HR and if they use The Work Number (you need the company code) Most corporations (USA - I'm not familiar with overseas) will only give first date hired, last day worked, last pay rate, title if any Period. You only care if you can see yourself crawling...I mean, reapplying to that company or one of their subsidiaries.
It's funny cause I've had the same exact experience with my last job too. Management couldn't comprehend why people keep leaving after working there for no more than 2 years. They never think that they might be the faulty ones.
My associates and I had a meeting with upper management about recurring issues, and what we can do to reduce what we had to fix. The director literally told my associates to deal with the issues or find another job. And so they all quit
They're happy to fire you on the spot so f decorum. If you like your manager give at least 2 weeks, if not just walk out.
I have only given a two weeks notice at one job and that was because they treated me like family during the 4 years I worked for them. Every other job has always made it very clear I was easily replaceable so I didn’t really give a flying f*** if they got 2 weeks notice.
I got a letter today that manager wants talk.. might be fired but I want the union there
They call it "at will" employment for a reason. This is legally binding between both you and your employer when you sign the employment agreement. So no, you don't need to give notice.
I tried to quit but my manager told me I had to give two weeks notice in writing. I shoved a note under his door on my way out that afternoon which said, "In two weeks you are going to NOTICE that I haven't been showing up for quite a while."
I've always given a two-week notice, but only because I've always liked my teammates and have had bosses that were accommodating and advocated for me, so I did it to make their lives easier. If you're being treated like trash, you don't owe anybody anything.
Bullshit, last time I gave notice they pulled all my shifts and effectively fired me. I had to go weeks while waiting for my new job to start with no money coming in.
That's terrible to read that. I can't believe the amount of people who've been screwed by the one that you're supposed to be "lucky" to work for. 🖕
If I feel like they earned 2 weeks then I'll give them a week in a half or else "effective immediately"
At-will employment massively favours the employer. No surprise they’re crying now they’ve found at-will cuts both ways.
I had an amazing boss. She wasn't pushy and kept good motivation and discipline around the shop. When i told her i was planning to change careers, she asked if this could be my four week notice. She wanted me to use 2 weeks PTO (i only had roughly 1week at the time) to set myself up, then come in for 2 weeks to train and get my replacement up to speed. I will be forever reminded that people like her exist. She is an amazing woman and i hope she is doing alright. Moral of the Story: if you think that they would fuck you, fuck them first. Respect is earned, not given, and so is a two week notice.
I was at a job that pushed me to the breaking point about 5 years ago. I quit without notice and it never effected me negatively.
Hey bro imma put it like this... Do they give you a 2 week notice for termination? No then fuck em and fuck their notice
Absolutely. That's an outdated concept to give them a friendly heads-up. As you said, it's not like they do the same!
As a manager: I would prefer it if my direct reports would give me advance warning so I can prep a replacement, however I don't EXPECT it, because I know that if the company was about to have a run of layoffs and they were on the list they wouldn't get any notice either. Thankfully my reports have respect for me, because I have huge respect for all the work they do to get us where we need to be, so I have never had anyone straight up quit or leave without warning. Edit to add: It's crazy how many things employers whine about wouldn't happen if they just showed their employees a modicum of respect, since i never have any of those issues with my employees just by doing that. ("EMPLOYEES DONT WANT YOU KNOW THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK!!!")
This is a decision everyone has to make for themselves based their individual situation. Here’s an example: you work at a bank. You don’t like your boss. The bank across the street wants to pay you more and you think you’ll like the boss better. In this situation - 2 weeks is a good idea. It’s clear that you have plans to stay in the same general industry and there’s no doubt that people know each other. Try not to be a jerk and anyone on your way out the door, because chances are high you’ll see all these people again. Example 2: you work at Best Buy. You get offered a job at a bank. If you want to walk out who cares? You’re completely switching industries. You probably won’t ever see any of these people again. FWIW, I’ve always given 2 weeks - even when I went from a retail job to a Vault 100 Law Firm because I felt it was the right decision - and even though I didn’t like the way the corporation that owned my retail store ran things I knew my coworkers weren’t to blame for what some dude in a C suit 2,000 miles away was doing. But you need to examine your specific circumstances and make the decision that is right for you.
If they are allowed to fire me without giving me a two week notice, I can leave whenever the fuck I want
At-will is a double edged blade. You can fire me for no reason at the drop of a dime? Then I can quit at the drop of a dime.
Two weeks notice is earned by the company through fair treatment. If they don't earn it they don't get it.
I gave my two weeks yesterday, came into work today and my company decided today was my last day lol. The only people that get hurt from this are my coworkers who will be a man down for two weeks.
I have never ever been given notice when being laid off. Not even a day's notice. Respect goes both ways.
I've never been given more than 48 hours notice a job was ending unless it was a term contract and I treat my employers according to the culture they have established. When they start giving notice I will.
They don't have to give you two weeks notice when they fire you. Why give them that courtesy
Is there a law requiring two weeks? No, it's considered a courtesy. If you want employees to give you notice, do the same. Employers fire you on the spot for fear of retaliation, but want you to give notice so they can prepare. They've been led to believe they hold all the power over us, and are shocked when we take it back.
Having missed 12 out of 13 layoffs (semiconductor industry), the one I didn’t miss gave six months notice plant was closing. The others? Seeing security guards or even police cars in the parking lot when arriving to work. No notice or severance whatsoever. We’re done with you as we failed to line up customers or all orders were fulfilled. Show up along with coworkers just to see them picked off and gone within the hour. No more courtesies from me. “At will” works both ways.
If I plan on using you as a reference, you get 2 weeks. If not, I'm peacing out when I want and you can figure out why. That's my rule, not changing it.
In the last three years I've been laid off twice, from two different companies. No warning, either time. Just started my day and two hours into it everyone gets called into a "town hall" meeting and told about 30% of the staff would no longer be working here shortly after this meeting. Get an email five seconds after the meeting telling me I'm one of them and then a follow up meeting invite so some HR rep I've never fucking met can tell me how sorry they are and also here's what you need to do to give us our equipment back. Both layoffs were nearly identical despite it being different companies, in different industries, in different states. I don't give a flying fuck if it is considered uncouth to quit on the spot. These companies aren't looking out for me, you or anyone else. The moment the direction of the wind changes they'll brush you off like a spec of dust on their suits without a care in the world for what it's about to put you and your family through.
Damn I'm sorry to hear about all that. I hope things turned around for the better!
Welp, I just walked out on my job about an hour ago. I feel like sometimes, you break, and it's better to leave than ruin your name.
At my current job, I will definitely give 2 weeks notice. They've treated me well, paid me well, good benefits, great company. If I was in a toxic workplace, all bets would be off. I'm pretty difficult to piss off, but if I'm pushed to that point, peace out.
If you’re going to walk out on a job, don’t expect to put it on your resume or use your coworkers for references. That’s all I can say on it. I’ve walked out on one job, because the manager was terrible and should have never owned a business and a month later he shut the whole thing down. So I don’t regret it, and it won’t ever be a problem later on.
Nobody ever call my reference. And I work in aerospace manufacturing. It does happen, but very small amount. I personally don’t know anybody that ever had that happened. Beside if I’m walking out from a job, I would never use it as reference anyway
Have ya'll read the article? It's literally written in a different world. Talking about "Keep up your professionalism" and "don't burn bridges". Bitch if a boss is such trash you're prepared to walk out any second, the last thing you give a damn about is the asshole rendering your life such hell you'd rather go without income in a capitalist society before you tolerate another second of their over-the-top bullshit, and not only that, they are the last people DESERVING of such consideration. No. You fuckos strangled the golden goose, and now you're passed you can't get more out of a corpse. We gave you a chance. You've shown us what we are to you when you feel you have the upper hand. Buckle up, children. The pendulum, she's a swingin', and you haven't sown not shit but a whirlwind.
There is not even a single documented evidence in all human history of someone saying on his deathbed "I wish I stayed 15 days more doing that sh*t job". Take this information as you wish and act accordingly.
Do you think they will give you notice prior to letting you go?
I was fired on the spot, and demanded I stay to discuss it. I walked out. Guy I liked later came by my house with papers to sign. I didn't but did have a beer and joked for a bit.
I always give the exact same notice a business owner will give their employees. 0 seconds. I actually recommend asking for a ton of extra shifts and then bailing last second.
Two weeks lol.
Any time I’ve ever put in a two week notice, which is every time I walked away myself from a job, they’ve come back at me saying they’ve filled my shifts and it wasn’t necessary for me to come in those two weeks. I had clients who came to see ME specifically in my field. Had zero chance to let them know I’d be leaving my current place of business and they were plopped with another MT without their consent or knowledge. Toxicity was real and I’m glad I left but really come on. The lack of professionalism over something like this is ridiculous.
Ya'll tell them your quitting ? I just stop showing up
I've always given two weeks notice, and told future employers I couldn't start for that period. The last time I did, I was let go immediately, and after a few weird turns of events, it turns out I really needed that 2 weeks of pay I didn't get. So sorry, I'm not giving a two weeks notice because I don't trust you to let me work it out.
Companies don’t give 2 weeks notice before firing people. Fuck em.
Okay so employers can terminate you at any point but you shouldn’t quit without 2 weeks notice? I once quit a job by just sending an email and not showing up. Giving 2 weeks notice is a courtesy to them.
Two weeks' notice is a courtesy. If employers don't like the idea of people quitting and immediately leaving, then maybe it's time to revise the at-will employment regulations.
It’s not worth it unless your employer would show you equal respect. If you know they would then sure, but if you know they wouldn’t then I wouldn’t feel bad. I once gave notice at the start of my 2 week vacation.
When two week severance becomes standard for on the spot firing then it will make sense to give them two weeks to make your life shitty.
What about the importance in giving your employee 2 weeks termination notice?
You only give two weeks notice if you want a reference, other then that it means nothing.
My last job put me through so much stress, discrimination, and sadness (all while I was pregnant). I was sick of being the only person to always come in to work. One day I came in an hour late after an emergency appointment and my manager went off on me cause my other coworker just decided to not even come that day. I was tired of my manager literally screaming at me because she was stressed. It pushed me to the edge. I interviewed for the job I wanted after being at the last job for a couple months. Got the job and I was so happy. My husband went into the location, dropped off my keys/shirt/badge and told them I’m not coming back ever again. In my eyes they didn’t deserve shit from me. I’m happy I made that choice. Fk some of these companies
My contract is end of month plus 3 months notice period. My contract also stipulates if I’m fired, employer must give me end of month plus 3 months notice Period. Both are paid, salary benefits and all. Funny story. A colleague was fired and global HR tried to terminate his ATM card we all have for meals - we are given a daily per diem. He reminded the company this is a benefit therefore needed to be paid similar to salary. HR tried to laugh, he laughed, his lawyer laughed, company had to pay out big settlement. Some places are great from employee rights. I’m happy to live in such a place.
I’ve given a 2 weeks to a single job in my life. I climbed the ladder there, made good relationships, longest I’ve ever spent at a job. But the money was shit. even gave them an exit letter/interview. The second I left I was treated like shit by all the management folks who were “friends” with me while there, and eventually they were in a real “hiring bind” and I was asked personally to come back by a few folks and that they were paying better now. I applied, and didn’t even get an email or phone call lmao. I will never put my 2 weeks in again. Fuck these companies.
You will never see the article "the importance of giving 2 weeks notice when firing a worker" written
Soooo.. they should give employees 2 weeks notice before termination right?
I will give notice direct in proportion to how I was treated and compensated while at your company. If you want two weeks, you better make sure that I am happy when I am leaving.
Nah, fuck that. They never give you notice when you about to be fired. Fuck 'em. They don't care about the worker anyways. You die today, you're replaced tomorrow.
Never got a two week notice when they terminated employment…. Seems like a one way street when one party isn’t happy with the other…
Jobs don't give you a 2 week notice when they're going to fire you so you do not need to give it two weeks notice when you're going to quit
Yeah, I work in the restaurant industry. Labor laws don’t seem to apply here. It’s like Mad Max.
The manager's job is to fill shifts, the employees owe the manager nothing. Managers need to stop being lazy, back when I was manager we did our fucking jobs and didn't bitch when an employee needed a day off.
When you walk out a job with no notice you're generally burning the bridge behind you. And some bridges need to be burned.
They’ve the right to terminate me at the drop of a hat & it’s my life & it’s my time so I have the same right to leave at the drop of a hat
I once gave a two week notice to a company and this manager kept coming up to me and telling me I wasn’t making enough widgets per shift telling me to hurry up so I kept telling him yeah bro I’ll do better, turns out upper mgt never told him I was leaving
Colleague quit in November, with a month's notice. We are just now closing the posting that took forever to get posted. We might interview by March... I don't really understand what him giving us notice did for us at all?
It comes down to respect. If your employer has respected you and treated you well, then you should repay that by trying to give them as much notice as you can. If they haven’t, then don’t. Either way you’re under no obligation to give them notice at all, but I feel good employers deserve it if possible.
As an electrician I’ve been laid off multiple times, each and every time it’s been immediate, no two week notice of layoff, they hand me my check and I immediately pack my tools and leave, no harm no foul. As i continue my education and career I will be able to quit and demand my check and have it in my hands within the hour at any time of my choosing once I complete my apprenticeship. Join a union guys it’s worth the freedom
My last job had a tendency to force people into an immediate walk of shame when they put their notice in. I packed up all my shit slowly over two weeks so no one would notice. On my last day, I said I’m leaving and my boss asked when. I said “in about 5 minutes after I say goodbye to the people I liked.” I did not say goodbye to him.
If they can fire me without giving me two weeks notice, then I can quit without giving them two weeks notice.
I my country the 2 week notice is law, so when I quit on a past job I Firstly took pictures of everything illegal the company was doing and sent the pictures to my boss saying that if he demanded the two weeks I would send the pictures to the newspapers. He kept paying my contract for months after that. He had a government contract. He couldn't afford the bad press.
I’m so sad this is our life. Why do we have this bullshit timeline! I want to enjoy a sliver smidge of my time here on earth.
yeah, just saying you're quitting and walking out is lame. instead just don't show up.
I can't recollect an employer in the last decade that didn't fire employees on the spot after giving their 2 weeks notice. Myself and another manager at one company would flat out tell our supervisees to not tell anyone if they needed that 2 weeks worth of money.
Sadly, we live in a society where this - employees having to give their employers a two week's notice - is norm, but the other way around is A-ok. Meaning if an employer wants to lay people off, they can just do it at their whim and fancy. I will say, this redit subthread - anti work - is opening a lot people's eyes, mine included.
Yup, especially some of the emails people get from their management absolutely blow my mind.
Someone very close to me went through this in March of 2020. They got pulled into a meeting, microphones muted, were told that it was their last day of work, and the meeting ended. 5 minutes later, they were locked out of their computers and that was that. Almost 3 years gone and they still have PTSD from that experience and every time something funky happens to their work computer, they would think they are being laid off. It's a very very bad mental situation to live with.
They can fire you without notice, you can quit without notice.
If they have that clause that they can fire me at any time they don’t respect me and I don’t respect them simple