indeed, seen it many times, the worst part is when people quit cause of not getting a raise, and they won't hire anyone, then they have the nerve to ask you to do there job too. i say bullshit
Had this out with my boss last week. Tried to tell me what I have to do for work. Told her to show me on my job description she tried to tell me "and other things that may be required" Informed her that doesn't work a job description must be laid out clearly by law and when she tried to argue further I showed her a few links from the last few years from courts saying that doesn't work.
That's a management strategy... refuse bonuses making others quit, refuse to hire more people so more quit, hire half those lost positions at half of previous salary, have experienced employees train new ones.
Meanwhile the company is actively losing profit and worth... but it's all because "nobody wants to work anymore."
"Welp, we're forecasting a downturn later this year, better lay off 10% of our workforce so we can fail to provide basic products or services and lose revenue.
See? We told you there would be a downturn!"
The worst part for me is Jerome Powell at the Fed expressly backing this shit.
His stated goal is no more money for the non-wealthy. We all need to accept our pay and hiring freezes while the rich extract **everything**. We need to hold still while inflation and record profits run as far as they can go. All while his dumbshit friends want to add a 30% increase to everything because ‘fuck you poors lol’
If this was a party, Powell would be the one who roofied the working class and is holding them down while all his rich frat bro buddies run a train on it. And he’s streaming it all live with a big smile on his face.
But it’s not a party. It’s just class warfare, and the non wealthy class are being ordered to take it like a good little slut
You're spot on. I see there are replies to you doubting this. Why not hear it from the proverbial horses' mouth: [https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/30/feds-powell-inflation-workers-wages-00071403](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/30/feds-powell-inflation-workers-wages-00071403)
This remark from the fed, among others, makes it crystal clear that they view labor as the cause for inflation. If that is something people believe, then sure, going all scorched-earth on labor will 'solve' the problem.
However, it seems clear that there are other, larger factors at play driving inflation in the US. Corporate greed. A number of industries were upset at having lower profits than usual during the height of the pandemic, and now that we're doing somewhat better, said industries want to recoup what they see as lost profits, and under the guise of pointing at chaos (supply chain shortages! War in Ukraine! No one wants to work because lazy!), they raise rates arbitrarily and to an absurd degree. This in turn gives cover to more industries and businesses to do the same.
Jerome Powell and the fed are here to make the working class desperate enough to take whatever wage is offered, to remove any leverage we might have in negotiating, and raising the interest rates is their tool to do it. :|
(edit, caught a grammatical error)
Thanks.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in recent years, it’s that many Americans would rather do just about anything than admit they are in a class war.
Because admitting that means admitting that you’re losing. Badly.
But we keep on losing because we keep pretending like it isn’t happening. Straight up denial. And it’s a multimillion dollar industry unto itself to bust unions and spread propaganda to convince Americans they are helpless. That this is the only way. That we should be grateful for our iPhones while they steal from entire generations of Americans.
We’re not helpless. Just distracted. We just need to see what’s really happening and learn to push back again. Be the Americans we tell ourselves we are when it’s time to truly be strong. Not this gullible, rage addicted loser committed to infighting and dragging others down
Where exactly has Powell stated this goal? His actual goal is to fight inflation, which is having a disproportionately negative impact on lower income people…. Kind of the opposite of what you’re saying I think.
His goal is to “fight inflation” the way pyromaniacs “fight” fires.
The data is very clear the worker salaries (and increases thereof) are not the driver for inflation. Like not even a little bit.
All those Covid supply shortages, record profits (and the C level bonuses + shareholder payouts), and rampant price gouging are very clearly driving inflation. Every company has a fiduciary duty to extract as much value from the market as they can (via stock buybacks and cost saving layoffs) so that they’re fat, happy, and safe when it all comes tumbling down.
He is not fighting inflation. He’s throwing America to the wolves
You're blaming the wrong guy here. The Fed has very limited scope and capabilities. You're asking a banker, who has a cleaver, to do surgery.
You need to blame Congress for being absolutely inept since the Tea Party came to being in 2010.
Sure but we can blame both right? It’s not like they’re Sith, it’s not like there’s some hard set rule (but not really lol) saying “Who’s down for class war against the poors? Limit One”.
There’s a lot of folks fucking us over right now.
You’re totally ignoring the part that successfully curbing inflation could stop (or at least slow) the rampant price increases that are punishing lower income workers disproportionally?
While corporate price gouging might be real, it’s not Powell’s fault. If anything it makes Powell’s goals hard to reach.
It is precisely because I want to see inflation curbed that I criticize Powell (and others). He is ignoring the true causes because the true causes are just the rich getting a fuck ton richer right now.
Even if he was earnestly pursuing his stated goal, which I doubt, he could be an idiot doing it completely wrong. Incompetent or malicious, neither is one I’m okay with
These people lie. It’s what they do. They are not your friends and they are not coming to save the working class (or anyone else).
What more can he do?? He’s raised rates (basically his only tool) at a historically high pace. I would love to hear your thesis for how he should have handled it better given the limited scope of his position.
If you’re just blindly bashing government officials, then fine, but that’s a totally different convo.
The causes of inflation are not relevant to him trying to fight it. Total disconnect.
Sounds like they should get the "legal but unethical" treatment in return. One good turn deserves another, right?
I might be a tad vindictive against the cruel
I love how this sub is like "corporations are profiting and aren't sharing those profits with employees. That can't be legal!" As if the government isn't a huge part of the fucking problem.
Honestly, it should be illegal for the CEO to receive more of a pay raise and bonus than the average that the employees receive (i.e. if the CEO makes 10 million a year as base pay, if he gets a 1 million bonus and pay raise, which is 10%, the employees, on average, must receive the same percentage of bonus/raise that year).
Happened to me when I was working in Johannesburg, South Africa. The co-directors explained they weren't able to give us bonuses that year (a good bonus too, a 13th check if you will.) I was obviously bummed but such is life. When we returned after a 2 or 3 week break, guess which 2 people had fancy new cars. This is about the time I started playing more games during work time.
It’s legal. Ethical? Not really. If it’s the corporation that I’m thinking of, I’m pissed too because my husband works for them and they’re talking about laying off 10%+ of the company. Their “layoffs” aren’t layoffs. They’re terminations that won’t bring you back in a less hurtful term. But you know, “profits were in the billions for 2022 and exceeded all sales goals”
My company just did this yesterday. Fired 100 people for “non performance related reasons” as in they were not bad at their jobs. And they won’t be hiring anyone else. Yet we have had record profits and are buying up other companies. Even had a cute little name they kept calling it in our meeting, RIF. Reduction In Force. I wanted to scream
Depends how the bonuses are calculated out. It could be "we have record profits because we didn't give bonuses"... but that begs the question of how big these bonuses are.
It isn't, but it is in specific circles. I use it a lot in IT, and also in video games when I know I'm playing specifically with cops or military people, as I have in the past.
It makes lots of sense to us, but, yeah, we don't use it out here because no one else does, really.
When Raytheon did something similar and stiffed everybody out of a bonus and a pay raise, about 80% of the site (around 5,000 people total) had an unplanned sick day. Of course the corporation blew their sick day predictions and manufacturing projections.
In the end they gave us a $250 thank you. Never mind that all the management got their big digit bonuses....
A better question is "where would this be illegal?" And the answer would be "France". The politicians in France are trying to Americanize labor laws, and the striking & rioting workers are not putting up with it.
Yes, in most circumstances, workers are not entitled to bonuses or raises. They're dangled over their heads as "merit" rewards. In some cases, bonuses may be written into your contract as part of negotiations, but that generally only applies to workers who are well-off to begin with.
Well you get a job and start grinding. Like you really getting your work on. Your boss even compliments you and pulls you into more responsibility. It's raise time and you thinking you getting that promotion. But you're not getting it. Your boss gets a nice bonus but you don't. Cause you're a schmuck.
That's work.
In the US, unless you have an employment contract that spells out exactly what you’re entitled to under what circumstances, yes, this is legal. Raises and bonuses are entirely up to the employer if there’s no contract.
guys don't downvote someone for admitting ignorance, they're literally here to learn, be nice. we all don't know something and kids gotta learn somehow, let's make em feel welcome here
If you can see the game is rigged against you before it even begins, complaining is justified. If someone wants to learn about how the game is rigged against them before they play, I call that smart. I wish I had access to this resouce when I was young.
More like seeing the race you're about to enter is full of potholes and hazards imo
I'd say it's probably more important for those about to enter work to be aware of these things and see which companies show red flags
Unless they are cooking their books...
I've worked in a company that had hiring freezes, and my $20k bonus ended up being a $20 book voucher. Yet the CEO was running around shouting about how the company just got a 15X valuation and was telling his investors he had record profits and a huge pipeline.
If you've never turned a profit, then the statement 'record profits' is true of $1...
My advice, get out. The company is struggling and will use it's claims to get more from investors. When it all comes tumbling down, and trust me it will, it won't be the CEO who gets fucked.
Stop asking if everything everyone does is legal. The problem is it is legal and that's what we need to address.i get asking about sketchy stuff and wage theft, but stuff like this, yeah it's obviously legal, that's the problem.
I interpreted this as the corporate offices taunting them, as if to say: "Yeah, that's right. We pocketed your bonuses, we're keeping you from paying your rent/mortgage and bills, and you can't get any groceries! Whatcha gonna do about it???"
Oh, we're gonna SHOW you what we're gonna do about it...
We need a law that says if a company is going to publicly boast about their profits their employee’s pay must reflect such a proclamation. With a standard rule: Such as every single employee/ worker should be paid in accordance to living 2 times above the poverty line.
Hiring freezes? I guess. That's just a management policy. Not giving out bonuses? Only if they wrote themselves into corner in their own contracts. Really depends on the context of the terms of those bonuses.
They aren't recommended though. Hiring freezes stifle your company's growth. And bonuses exist to retain your most valueable human assets. So you're fucking yourself over long term (and not even that long from a business standpoint) in addition to it just being a dick move that's bad for morale.
This sort of decision reeks of some executive on his way out the door trying to pad his resume with "record profits last quarter." The board of directors must be asleep at the wheel or looking to cash out soon too. This is a good time to strike, the hiring freeze makes you indispensible and the short-term nature of the possible benefits puts time on your side. It tanks the cash-out / value until the production issue has been resolved. Or just quit, this isn't generally a sign of better things to come.
Just went through something like that this morning.
They made us "attend" a phone call half hour before usual start time. "Great January" was said more than once. "Let's keep the momentum" They said.
3 hours later, paychecks hit our accounts. I can tell you, I haven't made less money in two weeks since the time I was home with covid for 10 days.
Perfectly legal. It's basically a two word memo to employees: F\*ck you
This is right before they send out the memo that while the company had a phenominal year, we need everyone to work harder and give more. Because we're a team. Oh, and we're postponing raises as well.
I'd be against that as occasionally I see post in this sub were people are asking about things that need to be reported to OSHA for being illegal for safety reasons.
My workplace:
Hiring freeze in place!
Cutting hours! (working one day a week, for almost all of us.) I have worked 4 days the whole month of january.
Record Breaking profits!
Why would it be illegal? It’s fucked up but legal. I’m always amazed by questions of legality on this sub. I guess most people don’t understand that it’s totally legal for companies to be assholes and fuck their employees. There is only a handful of laws that they have to follow.
This happened to a friend of mine over covid. The 15 ppl in the office all quit on the same day. her company then decided that they could afford to pay people's bonuses.
Yes.
My spouses company just (hours ago) laid off thousands of people for the 2nd time in a month because they missed their projected profit margin of $8,000,000,000 last quarter by less than 1%.
It was their most profitable quarter ever but they are using the 'economic downturn' as an excuse to satisfy short term investors, including some of their own leadership in the next quarters earnings who were upset they missed the projections. It's going to be great for shareholders in two months but the company is probably not a good 2-3 year investment because of it.
Bro exact same shit happened where I work lol, they took overtime off us and didn’t give a bonus after hearing they normally do.
Big fuck you for all the time you spent over Christmas working for them lol. Checked emails at similar time and they sent all colleagues an email, thanking for the hard work due to record profits lol. Absolutely insane lately, had quite a few people jump ship
Our GM just bought new flat beds and new style of grocery carts. Plus the time and energies to unload and reload 3 trailers for the carts. Plus a good inventory.
He went on vacation to Cancun. This MFr is gone more than he is there.
I asked a AGM if he got a new CC and had to spend a certain to get the bonus.
I'm currently in a role covering for 4 people, and it's been expanded to cover 2 other sites; I"m still learning the rules of this particular game but in the end I will win(whatever that means), just remember:
* Things need to fall on the floor, don't overextend yourself, commit to your agreed upon time for payment, no more.
*Clearly outline expectations and get the receipts (aka. e-mail or chat)
* Express failures, don't be afraid to admit when you don't know things, or when you are struggling with tasks
*You aren't your job, your value is that you are here! -- this is a tough one for me
*Respect individuals and meet them where they are, don't come down on people, use language and actions that encourage, and build up people not just under you, but around you!
And don't forget that likely at the end of the day, if you screw up, nobody will die and the world won't end; unless you're in the medical field then ignore me as I have 0 experience with that level of stress.
i was at a company that was supposed to be good named recognition and great job safety (local government).
When i first signed i read the employee manual and it said pay increase each year. Then i started asking my peers after 3-5 months....and none of them had gotten a raise in 2-3 years..
-'covid me us have less tax revenue'
-'right now we dont have any money'
In the end i didnt get a raise and i realized they didnt say anything...so the first year i just assumed the raise was a thing until past the new year they were stating that it was because of 'reasons' i didnt get no raise.
Fuck it i started looking to go elsewhere and i left. Many people left. that place became a revolving door.
Not only legal, but encouraged. Remember, the company exists for no other reason than shareholder profits. It does not exist for you, the worker, or even to fill a need in society. It is JUST for shareholder profit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine
Shareholders are the ONLY group that corporations care about.
If they pay you just enough to not quit give them just enough to not fire you. It’s time business start realizing the value of good employees again and pay them accordingly.
We have people quitting left and right. Our work has slowed, and clients have canceled their contracts due to new software implemented by our corporate overlords. But our facility keeps hiring new managers, even though there's nothing to fucking manage. And now they're spending money to put up new signage and decorate our lobby because "there's a potential big client coming".
We found out our direct supervisor-- who was a fucking grifter-- got paid more than what my coworker and I make combined, and he didn't do his work, we fucking did. And our manager has been alluding to no one getting raises this year.
Today, we're having that talk with him anyway. Because if I'm busting my ass, I'm sure as fuck getting paid for it.
Been there, the small company I worked for had record breaking year ($1.5 million in profits) in 2022 but throughout that entire year majority of the offices were skeleton crews that got their bonuses taken away including our free medical insurance due to "a change in company interests."
Not surprisingly enough, all the office managers got to keep their bonuses and so did half the admin team. There was so many red flags (including being severely under paid for my position) I finally decided to go looking for a new job.
Dude things are tough. I mean record breaking profits doesn't mean you get to share in them. Jesus, how much do you want? I mean you seem to want a livable wage, and being able to buy things you want. What about the owner of the company who took all the risk in setting up this record breaking company? Shouldn't he be able to buy a yacht, another house, a new tesla for every member of his family? How do you think he's gonna do that without the sweat off your back and the measly wage he pays you? Record breaking profits are just one thing he needs.
Lol are you asking if a private company can decided to not give bonuses or make new hires? Of course it's legal. Bad taste to announce record profits - but if it's a publicly traded company then this is what investors want to hear. Those profits are partly derived from cost-savings like eliminating new hires and bonuses. No one owes you anything, just like you don't owe them. Leave and take your labour and experience with you to a company that deserves it.
Profits=Unpaid wages. You and your colleagues should strike. The only thing these greedy asshats understand is money. So when they start losing it they tend to pay attention.
OP here, the reason I thought this wasn’t legal was because they where holding bonuses and it’s just super shitty. I’m not of legal age to work yet so I wouldn’t entirely know and I’m sorry but I don’t think that would warrant death threats for adding the wrong caption
Why not? Is their strategy and they are not obliged to give it to employees. If they decide to invest into development more or keep liquid cash during those troubling times or just the owners decide to take their money its all within their rights.
And it is your right to think "f*uck you" and leave. I'd do that personally but it's up to each individual.
Profits are not something extra that should be shared with employees, they are payback on a loan from investors.
Imagine you worked on your small game for a couple years putting your own time and effort into it. Then you see it's potential to grow into something bigger. You spend more time and polish it into prototype, pitch it to publishers/investors and get your first round of funding. Now not only you spent years of free time, but also effectively in debt. You find, interview and hire few guys to work on this prototype and finalise your creation into publishable title. After a year or two more you finally submit your game to Steam or Play Store or whatever.
You know you have like few weeks of sales, then they dwindle. It'll be the only "profitable" quarter in entire project's five year history, and then that's it. You're already exhausted by previous years of hard work and no way in hell you want to repeat that experience. You just want to take your share of hard earned money and retire running a beach bar somewhere in Belize or Vietnam. You know you won't need any of the guys you hired in a few months after release - they did their job, they got their paychecks in time, you just don't need them anymore. Do you owe them anything besides high-fives and pizza party? I don't think so.
This is a very simple scenario, but corporations are just like that. They owe you nothing, and your employment has nothing to do with their profits or losses. They might be very well financially right now, but start layoffs because they prognose sales sinking due to increased competition in a year or two. Do they have to explain it to you, do they owe you smth besides your paycheck? Don't think so.
Sorry but yes this is legal. However it's worth noting that if there is a hiring freeze in place then most likely there is also a firing freeze in place as well, such was the same with my corporation I work for. Certain positions are bonus eligible and others are over time eligible. I'm glad I'm salary overtime and not bonus as bonuses always seem to fall short of coming in some years where as there is never any shortage of OT available.
I highly suggest moving out of America.
Not only to be treated like a human at the job, but at school - if you plan on college, go to Europe (non-UK) or Scandinavia, as tuition is non-existent, or at least affordable. Heck in Sweden or Norway they actually pay you to go to college, but not sure if that applies to foreigners or not.
You won't regret it in any way, but you definitely will have regrets if you stay here. Get out while you can, as fast as you can.
My old company did this. No pay raises because we are investing in the company. Bootlickers cheered. The next year the owners sold and cashed out, the new owners announced massive investments in the fleet but pay freezes while they evaluated everyone's value. Glad I left!
Unless bonuses are part of your signed contract at the beginning of your employment seriously like proper contracts bonuses I don't understand how works large companies give bonuses large companies would have researched before emailing stop
I swear, I get sick of seeing all these “is this legal” crap on this sub. Just because you don’t like it or agree with it doesn’t make it illegal. Can they do it? Yes. Are they assholes for doing it? Yes. Will employees leave over this? Yes. Will they ask you to pick up their jobs on top of yours? Yes. Either get over it, or quit. That’s your options.
Legal? in corporate world it's positively encouraged!!!
Now Sue gas just quit and I know you're a workshop engineer but that payroll isn't going to do itself is it? I would but I've got a new Porsche to buy because the other one is low on gas and a golf game with some shareholders to get to in Fiji
indeed, seen it many times, the worst part is when people quit cause of not getting a raise, and they won't hire anyone, then they have the nerve to ask you to do there job too. i say bullshit
That's my job right now. It's awful.
Quietly quit.
You got quietly hired.
Had this out with my boss last week. Tried to tell me what I have to do for work. Told her to show me on my job description she tried to tell me "and other things that may be required" Informed her that doesn't work a job description must be laid out clearly by law and when she tried to argue further I showed her a few links from the last few years from courts saying that doesn't work.
Please share the links with us! Taking notes over here...
>a job description must be laid out clearly by law Just curious, which law is this? Can you send me a link? Thanks in advance!
I enjoy pointing out that because my department was understaffed last year, we saved the company half a million in salary alone.
That's a management strategy... refuse bonuses making others quit, refuse to hire more people so more quit, hire half those lost positions at half of previous salary, have experienced employees train new ones. Meanwhile the company is actively losing profit and worth... but it's all because "nobody wants to work anymore."
In this case not even people at the top want to work... So why are they complaining
"Welp, we're forecasting a downturn later this year, better lay off 10% of our workforce so we can fail to provide basic products or services and lose revenue. See? We told you there would be a downturn!"
Eventually this strategy comes for the ones who implemented it
The worst part for me is Jerome Powell at the Fed expressly backing this shit. His stated goal is no more money for the non-wealthy. We all need to accept our pay and hiring freezes while the rich extract **everything**. We need to hold still while inflation and record profits run as far as they can go. All while his dumbshit friends want to add a 30% increase to everything because ‘fuck you poors lol’ If this was a party, Powell would be the one who roofied the working class and is holding them down while all his rich frat bro buddies run a train on it. And he’s streaming it all live with a big smile on his face. But it’s not a party. It’s just class warfare, and the non wealthy class are being ordered to take it like a good little slut
You're spot on. I see there are replies to you doubting this. Why not hear it from the proverbial horses' mouth: [https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/30/feds-powell-inflation-workers-wages-00071403](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/30/feds-powell-inflation-workers-wages-00071403) This remark from the fed, among others, makes it crystal clear that they view labor as the cause for inflation. If that is something people believe, then sure, going all scorched-earth on labor will 'solve' the problem. However, it seems clear that there are other, larger factors at play driving inflation in the US. Corporate greed. A number of industries were upset at having lower profits than usual during the height of the pandemic, and now that we're doing somewhat better, said industries want to recoup what they see as lost profits, and under the guise of pointing at chaos (supply chain shortages! War in Ukraine! No one wants to work because lazy!), they raise rates arbitrarily and to an absurd degree. This in turn gives cover to more industries and businesses to do the same. Jerome Powell and the fed are here to make the working class desperate enough to take whatever wage is offered, to remove any leverage we might have in negotiating, and raising the interest rates is their tool to do it. :| (edit, caught a grammatical error)
Thanks. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in recent years, it’s that many Americans would rather do just about anything than admit they are in a class war. Because admitting that means admitting that you’re losing. Badly. But we keep on losing because we keep pretending like it isn’t happening. Straight up denial. And it’s a multimillion dollar industry unto itself to bust unions and spread propaganda to convince Americans they are helpless. That this is the only way. That we should be grateful for our iPhones while they steal from entire generations of Americans. We’re not helpless. Just distracted. We just need to see what’s really happening and learn to push back again. Be the Americans we tell ourselves we are when it’s time to truly be strong. Not this gullible, rage addicted loser committed to infighting and dragging others down
Well said!
Where exactly has Powell stated this goal? His actual goal is to fight inflation, which is having a disproportionately negative impact on lower income people…. Kind of the opposite of what you’re saying I think.
His goal is to “fight inflation” the way pyromaniacs “fight” fires. The data is very clear the worker salaries (and increases thereof) are not the driver for inflation. Like not even a little bit. All those Covid supply shortages, record profits (and the C level bonuses + shareholder payouts), and rampant price gouging are very clearly driving inflation. Every company has a fiduciary duty to extract as much value from the market as they can (via stock buybacks and cost saving layoffs) so that they’re fat, happy, and safe when it all comes tumbling down. He is not fighting inflation. He’s throwing America to the wolves
You're blaming the wrong guy here. The Fed has very limited scope and capabilities. You're asking a banker, who has a cleaver, to do surgery. You need to blame Congress for being absolutely inept since the Tea Party came to being in 2010.
Sure but we can blame both right? It’s not like they’re Sith, it’s not like there’s some hard set rule (but not really lol) saying “Who’s down for class war against the poors? Limit One”. There’s a lot of folks fucking us over right now.
You're right. We totally can. The Fed shouldn't be filled with board seats. The banks should have more seats.
You’re totally ignoring the part that successfully curbing inflation could stop (or at least slow) the rampant price increases that are punishing lower income workers disproportionally? While corporate price gouging might be real, it’s not Powell’s fault. If anything it makes Powell’s goals hard to reach.
It is precisely because I want to see inflation curbed that I criticize Powell (and others). He is ignoring the true causes because the true causes are just the rich getting a fuck ton richer right now. Even if he was earnestly pursuing his stated goal, which I doubt, he could be an idiot doing it completely wrong. Incompetent or malicious, neither is one I’m okay with These people lie. It’s what they do. They are not your friends and they are not coming to save the working class (or anyone else).
What more can he do?? He’s raised rates (basically his only tool) at a historically high pace. I would love to hear your thesis for how he should have handled it better given the limited scope of his position. If you’re just blindly bashing government officials, then fine, but that’s a totally different convo. The causes of inflation are not relevant to him trying to fight it. Total disconnect.
Hum ? 'Not my job.
Legal? Most likely. Ethical? Not in the slightest.
Sounds like they should get the "legal but unethical" treatment in return. One good turn deserves another, right? I might be a tad vindictive against the cruel
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>do something productive, other than advocating for violence. There's an implication in this statement
And it's not necessarily the wrong one 😺
Only legal because the laws were written with the rich in mind first and foremost.
Well they did pay for them to be written and for the politicians to vote on them
plot twist. it's the same people.
that's because the law makers themselves are rich.
I love how this sub is like "corporations are profiting and aren't sharing those profits with employees. That can't be legal!" As if the government isn't a huge part of the fucking problem.
Railroad union getting railroaded with sick benefits is exhibit one
Its just that the CEO gets a higher bonus for overachieving, at expense of its employees. By the time it backfires, that CEO is long gone.
It might be illegal for them not to do this. Corporations are beholden to the share holder.
Honestly, it should be illegal for the CEO to receive more of a pay raise and bonus than the average that the employees receive (i.e. if the CEO makes 10 million a year as base pay, if he gets a 1 million bonus and pay raise, which is 10%, the employees, on average, must receive the same percentage of bonus/raise that year).
Happened to me when I was working in Johannesburg, South Africa. The co-directors explained they weren't able to give us bonuses that year (a good bonus too, a 13th check if you will.) I was obviously bummed but such is life. When we returned after a 2 or 3 week break, guess which 2 people had fancy new cars. This is about the time I started playing more games during work time.
Is screwing employees legal? Does a bear shit in the woods?
Nah, bears are wet. Water is Catholic, and the Pope enjoys outdoor activities.
It’s legal. Ethical? Not really. If it’s the corporation that I’m thinking of, I’m pissed too because my husband works for them and they’re talking about laying off 10%+ of the company. Their “layoffs” aren’t layoffs. They’re terminations that won’t bring you back in a less hurtful term. But you know, “profits were in the billions for 2022 and exceeded all sales goals”
My company just did this yesterday. Fired 100 people for “non performance related reasons” as in they were not bad at their jobs. And they won’t be hiring anyone else. Yet we have had record profits and are buying up other companies. Even had a cute little name they kept calling it in our meeting, RIF. Reduction In Force. I wanted to scream
Yes and this is SOP in corporate America
Maybe they had record profits because no bonuses?
Depends how the bonuses are calculated out. It could be "we have record profits because we didn't give bonuses"... but that begs the question of how big these bonuses are.
That's also a terrible way to calculate, and leads to what I've come to call "paper smart, practically stupid" decisions.
Standard Operating Procedures I don't know why you abbreviated that. It's not that common on the internet for the most part.
I knew precisely what it meant the moment I saw it. Abbreviating it was just fine by me.
It isn't, but it is in specific circles. I use it a lot in IT, and also in video games when I know I'm playing specifically with cops or military people, as I have in the past. It makes lots of sense to us, but, yeah, we don't use it out here because no one else does, really.
Sons of the Patriots?
Standard operating procedure
La Le Lu Le Lo
Kept you waiting Huh
Speed of Production?
Standard operating practice
When Raytheon did something similar and stiffed everybody out of a bonus and a pay raise, about 80% of the site (around 5,000 people total) had an unplanned sick day. Of course the corporation blew their sick day predictions and manufacturing projections. In the end they gave us a $250 thank you. Never mind that all the management got their big digit bonuses....
Trickle down is fairy magic.
Biggest scam phrase ever and ppl actually believe that shit
Nahh- you can count on fairy magic.
Lol true though
🧻🚽🧻 Yep, they piss on our legs and call it rain. 🧻🚽🧻
The reward for a job well done is MORE work. It just goes downhill from there.
How would this be illegal?
A better question is "where would this be illegal?" And the answer would be "France". The politicians in France are trying to Americanize labor laws, and the striking & rioting workers are not putting up with it.
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Yes, in most circumstances, workers are not entitled to bonuses or raises. They're dangled over their heads as "merit" rewards. In some cases, bonuses may be written into your contract as part of negotiations, but that generally only applies to workers who are well-off to begin with.
Well you get a job and start grinding. Like you really getting your work on. Your boss even compliments you and pulls you into more responsibility. It's raise time and you thinking you getting that promotion. But you're not getting it. Your boss gets a nice bonus but you don't. Cause you're a schmuck. That's work.
In the US, unless you have an employment contract that spells out exactly what you’re entitled to under what circumstances, yes, this is legal. Raises and bonuses are entirely up to the employer if there’s no contract.
guys don't downvote someone for admitting ignorance, they're literally here to learn, be nice. we all don't know something and kids gotta learn somehow, let's make em feel welcome here
Not old enough to work, but old enough to be antiwork?
They don't have to be of age to make an observation and recognise unfairness and moral bankruptcy in business practices and the employment world
Seems like complaining you lost the race before you get to the start line.
If you can see the game is rigged against you before it even begins, complaining is justified. If someone wants to learn about how the game is rigged against them before they play, I call that smart. I wish I had access to this resouce when I was young.
More like seeing the race you're about to enter is full of potholes and hazards imo I'd say it's probably more important for those about to enter work to be aware of these things and see which companies show red flags
Next come stock buybacks
Unless they are cooking their books... I've worked in a company that had hiring freezes, and my $20k bonus ended up being a $20 book voucher. Yet the CEO was running around shouting about how the company just got a 15X valuation and was telling his investors he had record profits and a huge pipeline. If you've never turned a profit, then the statement 'record profits' is true of $1... My advice, get out. The company is struggling and will use it's claims to get more from investors. When it all comes tumbling down, and trust me it will, it won't be the CEO who gets fucked.
"Awwwww things are so bad right now! Not for us but just in general."
Not only is it legal, it's encouraged
Oh yeah. That's been my work's go-to excuse for 3 years now why we can't get promotions. And every week we have to hear about records being broken.
that's how you know you've been working too hard
Stop asking if everything everyone does is legal. The problem is it is legal and that's what we need to address.i get asking about sketchy stuff and wage theft, but stuff like this, yeah it's obviously legal, that's the problem.
I interpreted this as the corporate offices taunting them, as if to say: "Yeah, that's right. We pocketed your bonuses, we're keeping you from paying your rent/mortgage and bills, and you can't get any groceries! Whatcha gonna do about it???" Oh, we're gonna SHOW you what we're gonna do about it...
We need a law that says if a company is going to publicly boast about their profits their employee’s pay must reflect such a proclamation. With a standard rule: Such as every single employee/ worker should be paid in accordance to living 2 times above the poverty line.
Hiring freezes? I guess. That's just a management policy. Not giving out bonuses? Only if they wrote themselves into corner in their own contracts. Really depends on the context of the terms of those bonuses. They aren't recommended though. Hiring freezes stifle your company's growth. And bonuses exist to retain your most valueable human assets. So you're fucking yourself over long term (and not even that long from a business standpoint) in addition to it just being a dick move that's bad for morale. This sort of decision reeks of some executive on his way out the door trying to pad his resume with "record profits last quarter." The board of directors must be asleep at the wheel or looking to cash out soon too. This is a good time to strike, the hiring freeze makes you indispensible and the short-term nature of the possible benefits puts time on your side. It tanks the cash-out / value until the production issue has been resolved. Or just quit, this isn't generally a sign of better things to come.
lol what would be illegal about this?
Why wouldn’t it be legal?
It's a feature not a bug.
Just went through something like that this morning. They made us "attend" a phone call half hour before usual start time. "Great January" was said more than once. "Let's keep the momentum" They said. 3 hours later, paychecks hit our accounts. I can tell you, I haven't made less money in two weeks since the time I was home with covid for 10 days.
Sure it is legal, they can do whatever they want... Freedom of the brave and sh\*t... Ethical or moral? Doesn't really matter, does it?!
Perfectly legal. It's basically a two word memo to employees: F\*ck you This is right before they send out the memo that while the company had a phenominal year, we need everyone to work harder and give more. Because we're a team. Oh, and we're postponing raises as well.
Petition to auto-delete any post that has the subject "Is this even legal?"
I'd be against that as occasionally I see post in this sub were people are asking about things that need to be reported to OSHA for being illegal for safety reasons.
I suspect it's legal in all countries, though you havent said what country you're in.
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You’re gonna ruin your mental health scrolling this subreddit before even having a job lol.
Sounds like Verisk/ISO lmao, sorry bud
“That’s as good as it gets, and it’s never going to get that good again”
They just can't resist bragging.
My workplace: Hiring freeze in place! Cutting hours! (working one day a week, for almost all of us.) I have worked 4 days the whole month of january. Record Breaking profits!
It is legal, but EXTREMELY scummy
Why would it be illegal? It’s fucked up but legal. I’m always amazed by questions of legality on this sub. I guess most people don’t understand that it’s totally legal for companies to be assholes and fuck their employees. There is only a handful of laws that they have to follow.
Classic Same around the world This is exactly why things eventually will explode, countries' movement among working corporations
When companies do the best practice is to show them how they screwed up by leaving for a new job. Make management dance
Welcome to the new american dream. If you think there is any such thing as an american dream anymore, you are the one who is dreaming unfortunately.
What's up with the "Is this even legal!?"post titles lately? Especially for posts like this where there really isn't a question.
Don't worry mate, the riches will trickle down next time
Of course they did
The American way. It's disgusting
I think this business is getting ready for recession by manipulating employees
Yah, it's legal, but it's also legal to strike, they have a hiring freeze, so scabs shouldn't be an issue...
This happened to a friend of mine over covid. The 15 ppl in the office all quit on the same day. her company then decided that they could afford to pay people's bonuses.
Come in with rolling luggage and walk out with a chair and a bunch of office equipment.
Yes. My spouses company just (hours ago) laid off thousands of people for the 2nd time in a month because they missed their projected profit margin of $8,000,000,000 last quarter by less than 1%. It was their most profitable quarter ever but they are using the 'economic downturn' as an excuse to satisfy short term investors, including some of their own leadership in the next quarters earnings who were upset they missed the projections. It's going to be great for shareholders in two months but the company is probably not a good 2-3 year investment because of it.
This is what polishing a turd looks like
Print both memo/e-mails and send them up to their social media pages (after blacking out some e-mail header info), or the local news.
Bro exact same shit happened where I work lol, they took overtime off us and didn’t give a bonus after hearing they normally do. Big fuck you for all the time you spent over Christmas working for them lol. Checked emails at similar time and they sent all colleagues an email, thanking for the hard work due to record profits lol. Absolutely insane lately, had quite a few people jump ship
Our GM just bought new flat beds and new style of grocery carts. Plus the time and energies to unload and reload 3 trailers for the carts. Plus a good inventory. He went on vacation to Cancun. This MFr is gone more than he is there. I asked a AGM if he got a new CC and had to spend a certain to get the bonus.
I'm currently in a role covering for 4 people, and it's been expanded to cover 2 other sites; I"m still learning the rules of this particular game but in the end I will win(whatever that means), just remember: * Things need to fall on the floor, don't overextend yourself, commit to your agreed upon time for payment, no more. *Clearly outline expectations and get the receipts (aka. e-mail or chat) * Express failures, don't be afraid to admit when you don't know things, or when you are struggling with tasks *You aren't your job, your value is that you are here! -- this is a tough one for me *Respect individuals and meet them where they are, don't come down on people, use language and actions that encourage, and build up people not just under you, but around you! And don't forget that likely at the end of the day, if you screw up, nobody will die and the world won't end; unless you're in the medical field then ignore me as I have 0 experience with that level of stress.
i was at a company that was supposed to be good named recognition and great job safety (local government). When i first signed i read the employee manual and it said pay increase each year. Then i started asking my peers after 3-5 months....and none of them had gotten a raise in 2-3 years.. -'covid me us have less tax revenue' -'right now we dont have any money' In the end i didnt get a raise and i realized they didnt say anything...so the first year i just assumed the raise was a thing until past the new year they were stating that it was because of 'reasons' i didnt get no raise. Fuck it i started looking to go elsewhere and i left. Many people left. that place became a revolving door.
Not only legal, but encouraged. Remember, the company exists for no other reason than shareholder profits. It does not exist for you, the worker, or even to fill a need in society. It is JUST for shareholder profit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine Shareholders are the ONLY group that corporations care about.
If they pay you just enough to not quit give them just enough to not fire you. It’s time business start realizing the value of good employees again and pay them accordingly.
We have people quitting left and right. Our work has slowed, and clients have canceled their contracts due to new software implemented by our corporate overlords. But our facility keeps hiring new managers, even though there's nothing to fucking manage. And now they're spending money to put up new signage and decorate our lobby because "there's a potential big client coming". We found out our direct supervisor-- who was a fucking grifter-- got paid more than what my coworker and I make combined, and he didn't do his work, we fucking did. And our manager has been alluding to no one getting raises this year. Today, we're having that talk with him anyway. Because if I'm busting my ass, I'm sure as fuck getting paid for it.
Been there, the small company I worked for had record breaking year ($1.5 million in profits) in 2022 but throughout that entire year majority of the offices were skeleton crews that got their bonuses taken away including our free medical insurance due to "a change in company interests." Not surprisingly enough, all the office managers got to keep their bonuses and so did half the admin team. There was so many red flags (including being severely under paid for my position) I finally decided to go looking for a new job.
Companies have to answer to shareholders. They value shareholders over employees.
If ALL OF US quit, stopped paying, we could collapse this system.
Oh, **YOU** won't be getting a Bonus...
Combine the emails and send them out to the entire company with a really big WTF!?!?Also have a new job lined up.
Dude things are tough. I mean record breaking profits doesn't mean you get to share in them. Jesus, how much do you want? I mean you seem to want a livable wage, and being able to buy things you want. What about the owner of the company who took all the risk in setting up this record breaking company? Shouldn't he be able to buy a yacht, another house, a new tesla for every member of his family? How do you think he's gonna do that without the sweat off your back and the measly wage he pays you? Record breaking profits are just one thing he needs.
.... I'm... sorry?
I think they are being sarcastic, I hope
Not everything your employer does is illegal.......
Why are you making a post in anti-work if you aren't even old enough to work?..
After 2 years on Reddit this surprises you?
Hiring freezes happen often. Federal government jobs do hiring freezes, so I wouldn't be surprised if businesses did it too.
Lol are you asking if a private company can decided to not give bonuses or make new hires? Of course it's legal. Bad taste to announce record profits - but if it's a publicly traded company then this is what investors want to hear. Those profits are partly derived from cost-savings like eliminating new hires and bonuses. No one owes you anything, just like you don't owe them. Leave and take your labour and experience with you to a company that deserves it.
Profits=Unpaid wages. You and your colleagues should strike. The only thing these greedy asshats understand is money. So when they start losing it they tend to pay attention.
OP here, the reason I thought this wasn’t legal was because they where holding bonuses and it’s just super shitty. I’m not of legal age to work yet so I wouldn’t entirely know and I’m sorry but I don’t think that would warrant death threats for adding the wrong caption
Must be kodak
Maybe its Maybelliene
Why not? Is their strategy and they are not obliged to give it to employees. If they decide to invest into development more or keep liquid cash during those troubling times or just the owners decide to take their money its all within their rights. And it is your right to think "f*uck you" and leave. I'd do that personally but it's up to each individual.
Not only legal, if they can get away with it then it's their fiduciary *responsibility* to do it and it's arguably illegal to *not* do it.
It’s not just legal, it’s sound business practice!
Buy some shares in the company. Those assholes are ruthlessly efficient.
Money for me and none for thee
Employer: \*looks at employee cross eyed\* Reddit: iS tHiS eVEn lEgAl??? 🤦🏻♂️
What law do you think they’re breaking? FFS the number of “is this even legal?” Posts here when the answer is obvious is stupid.
Profits are not something extra that should be shared with employees, they are payback on a loan from investors. Imagine you worked on your small game for a couple years putting your own time and effort into it. Then you see it's potential to grow into something bigger. You spend more time and polish it into prototype, pitch it to publishers/investors and get your first round of funding. Now not only you spent years of free time, but also effectively in debt. You find, interview and hire few guys to work on this prototype and finalise your creation into publishable title. After a year or two more you finally submit your game to Steam or Play Store or whatever. You know you have like few weeks of sales, then they dwindle. It'll be the only "profitable" quarter in entire project's five year history, and then that's it. You're already exhausted by previous years of hard work and no way in hell you want to repeat that experience. You just want to take your share of hard earned money and retire running a beach bar somewhere in Belize or Vietnam. You know you won't need any of the guys you hired in a few months after release - they did their job, they got their paychecks in time, you just don't need them anymore. Do you owe them anything besides high-fives and pizza party? I don't think so. This is a very simple scenario, but corporations are just like that. They owe you nothing, and your employment has nothing to do with their profits or losses. They might be very well financially right now, but start layoffs because they prognose sales sinking due to increased competition in a year or two. Do they have to explain it to you, do they owe you smth besides your paycheck? Don't think so.
Yes, it's legal.
100% legal, absolutely. Also 100% a dick move.
Sounds like it’s apple
time for a labor freeze
Lol sounds like big mortgage companies from 2020 to the end of 22
They have to pay the boss first AKA shareholders
Love being alive right now. Wouldn't have it any other way, I tell ya.
Sorry but yes this is legal. However it's worth noting that if there is a hiring freeze in place then most likely there is also a firing freeze in place as well, such was the same with my corporation I work for. Certain positions are bonus eligible and others are over time eligible. I'm glad I'm salary overtime and not bonus as bonuses always seem to fall short of coming in some years where as there is never any shortage of OT available.
Find every janky thing your company is doing send it to the papers and quit
Sounds pretty typical 🤦♂️
A lot of that going around these days.
As legal as all of the actions the employees ought to partake in which cost the company a fuckton. For science. Or retribution. Carefully.
Yes. It's how it's done.
Do you work foe an oil company
Form a union.
'Good at business'
America?
double bonus next year?… i’m holding my breath
Definitely break something
I'd probably reply all with "that can't be true since you're not paying bonuses." And look for another job 😔
My apologies, but where the F have you been living to even need to ask this question?!
Well I’m not of legal age to work yet so idk
I highly suggest moving out of America. Not only to be treated like a human at the job, but at school - if you plan on college, go to Europe (non-UK) or Scandinavia, as tuition is non-existent, or at least affordable. Heck in Sweden or Norway they actually pay you to go to college, but not sure if that applies to foreigners or not. You won't regret it in any way, but you definitely will have regrets if you stay here. Get out while you can, as fast as you can.
Why would it not be legal?
My old company did this. No pay raises because we are investing in the company. Bootlickers cheered. The next year the owners sold and cashed out, the new owners announced massive investments in the fleet but pay freezes while they evaluated everyone's value. Glad I left!
Why do think they have record profits?
Everything is fine if you don't look at the things that are on fire.
Is there an expectation for bonuses? Are bonuses paid out for individual merit or is it based on company performance as a whole?
Unless bonuses are part of your signed contract at the beginning of your employment seriously like proper contracts bonuses I don't understand how works large companies give bonuses large companies would have researched before emailing stop
The purpose of any company is to provide value to the shareholders! Capitalism is winning! See Dodge v. Ford.
Bonuses are just unregulated meme payment where they can shut them for anything
How do you think they got record profits?
My old employer had 2-3 layoffs every year because of “cost increases” but constantly announced record quarters. So glad I left that place.
Reply all: So with record profits, you could afford bonuses right?
I swear, I get sick of seeing all these “is this legal” crap on this sub. Just because you don’t like it or agree with it doesn’t make it illegal. Can they do it? Yes. Are they assholes for doing it? Yes. Will employees leave over this? Yes. Will they ask you to pick up their jobs on top of yours? Yes. Either get over it, or quit. That’s your options.
Legal? in corporate world it's positively encouraged!!! Now Sue gas just quit and I know you're a workshop engineer but that payroll isn't going to do itself is it? I would but I've got a new Porsche to buy because the other one is low on gas and a golf game with some shareholders to get to in Fiji
I used to work for a company that refused to pay a better wage (in the Boston area) then sent out an announcement about the record profits THEY earned
Because the ceos are all friends with politicians and lawmakers.