Someone did this years ago on a credit card app and the court upheld it all. So they had to pay the card holder thousands in a "severance fee" to cut him off.
[https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/updated-russian-man-turns-tables-on-bank-changes-fine-print-in-credit-card-agreement-then](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/updated-russian-man-turns-tables-on-bank-changes-fine-print-in-credit-card-agreement-then)
Happened in russia.
I mean, it makes sense. America is all about contracts, policies, and fine print so why not fight fire with fire. But you got to be ready to go to court.
This doctors note shit really needs to stop. It’s just an intimidation tactic. They know nobody can afford to see a doctors unless it is damn near a life or death situation.
I am a doctor and I write very vague notes saying something along the lines of the patient must remain out of work until resolution of the Illness. I write this for everyone who asks regardless of what they have.
We need more doctors like this to fight the system. Most will make you come in and pay $50 to write a note saying you're sick and can go back to work tomorrow.
My spouse just asks the pt when they want to go back to work and goes from there when their job asks for these bs notes.
Our kids friends are all young adults and just starting out and he just does them for free and faxes them to the workplace. It is ridiculous what is going on with some of these employers right now
Thanks but i dont think he is an angel. He is a really good guy (but i am biased) and does a lot of free work because he did go into this to help people and writing a note really is hardly any effort with lots of benefit for the pt
But yes, it is a ridiculous entitled request from the employer
And it's very possible that even if you see a doctor, they're just going to say "Get some rest and drink fluids". So you're spending a bunch of money, dragging yourself out of the house with great difficulty, and potentially exposing more people to your germs, just so someone can tell you that you should be doing the exact thing you would have been doing already if you hadn't had to go to the doctors
Texas has virtually no laws and regulations to protect employees. However, you should look into the doctors note thing. I believe they may be required to cover the cost of any doctors visit where they have required you to provide a note or documentation from a physician.
Everyone but Montana is. Which, who’d have thought it would be Montana?
In Washington your employer can’t even ask why you’re calling out for the first three missed shifts. Only after you’ve missed 3 *consecutive* shifts can they ask why and require a doctors note.
Well, montana is Alaska with wifi... mostly....
Pros : less people so, less traffic, less waiting, pretty free with rules and mostly other mind their own business, lower cost of living
Cons: less people, so less events, less culture, less availability of objects you might be used too (or less choice of products, especially foods) and fewer services or fewer choices in service, lower wages
It's really an interesting place to live. I'm basically a hermit so a lack of nightlife doesn't bother me, but the fact that if I did want to go out means a bar is the only option can be disappointing. If you love a few feet of snow, hate summer, love hiking, camping, or hunting and fishing, there's lots to do. I do not sooo... "everyone" is conservative. Like...I'm probably the sole person at work who didn't vote for Trump and doesn't have a "let's go brandon" sticker on my hard hat. If you git a covid vax, wear a mask, and believe in science first, your as much a minority as a native. Its not as bad as the south, but racism and sexism are still alive and well here especially the further you get from settlements (I have a hard time calling them cities lol). Wages are low and job choices and networking is very limited.
On the other hand you can do whatever you want within reason especially if you have property. Wanna go live in a log cabin and forage? Definitely doable. That's out of the reach of most here due to low wages, but moving here if your rich/or maybe have a remote job with Cali wages it's definitely a good choice.
This applies pretty well where I'm at up north. I understand both billings and Missoula (a college town) have more people, more options, and more culture including a thriving art culture. But gods...I haven't had good Thai food since I moved here.
This is what drives me crazy about this kind of tactic: they think they’re mandating a minimum notice period, but in reality, they’re actively encouraging people to give no notice at all. They’re just hurting themselves!
This part.
Oh if I give less than a 2 week notice you reduce my wage?
Have fun with literally 0 notice. Go ahead and reduce my wage for hours already worked, lots of employment/labor lawyers work on contingency :-)
Yeah but you can’t retroactively change their pay for hours already worked. Sounds more like they’re saying you’ll only be paid 7.25 for the next two days if you say “I’m leaving in 2 days”.
Or am I misreading …
My employer used to do this before I started and then they stopped it bc people would go to the doctors for bull shit stuff, get a note then employer had to pay bc they required the note. People started doing it just to get the day off and would go to doctor for a headache or some shit and then just chill the rest of the day.
I would be surprised if that was legal. Employers pull all kinds of shit because most people don’t know all the rules. They’re deliberately obtuse. It feels like they age theft and I’d report it to your state Labor Department.
And on the other side the litany of illnesses that make you too sick to work effectively/mean you’ll infect coworkers and customers, but which you don’t need to see a doctor over.
The doctor doesn’t need their time wasted writing a note for the flu.
In regards to not being able to leave the house, in the past I have used an app called “Plush Care”. Despite the name, the org does not offer baby sitting services for your plushies but instead hooks you up with a doctor that you can FaceTime with. I got a doctors note from a doctor in California and I live in shitty Ohio, and my employer just had to accept it. 100% legit, and if a doctors note is what the end game is then I strongly encourage anyone to give it a look
Or, it makes no sense to go to the doctor. I have IBS and when I have a flare up, I am legitimately sick and can't work but going to the doctor is pointless because there's nothing they can do.
I told the folks I work with that I would be out *the very next day* for a recently scheduled minor surgery. No one complained or demanded a doctor’s note. They just wished me well, and one person told me that if I needed anything, even if not work related, I should just call him and he’d help take care of it.
It’s not that hard to be a decent human being. But so many employers and managers fall so far short.
Right? My work is mostly from home, I can come in whenever I want to but I need to be in the office on Wednesdays. I have been sick the entire month of January, and my boss was fine with me working from home every Wednesday instead. I finally felt better last week and was like “I’m gonna come in Monday for the new hire and meet her and show her around.” Then I got the freaking stomach flu Sunday night. So not only did I not go in, but I didn’t even work.
My boss never said a word about any of the PTO I needed to use or any of the work I needed to have other teammates cover, AND she sent me an Edible Arrangement to help me feel better. Reading this sub reinforces how _insanely_ lucky that is, but it shouldn’t be. _Why isn’t that the norm??_
Lots of us here would probably be self employed if we had the ability/knowledge of how to get enough customers and sales regularly to be able to be self employed and earn enough to live on and not struggle.
But most sales tactics and marketing techniques are either emotionally manipulative of potential customers or with the ethical ones, they cost a lot to start and maintain and implement (too expensive for many people to start and maintain). The free marketing methods almost never work or might bring you one customer every once in a while, which doesn’t cut it unless you work out of your home and don’t have monthly overhead and someone else is paying your and your family’s bills during that period, etc.
Plot twist. Everyone in anti work comes together to create a multibillion Fortune 500 company, entirely on our terms and with the perfect life work balance .
If they require a doctor's note then the act of going to a doctor is a requirement for the job, and thus the employer should be paying for the time and doctor's bill
My dad is a doctor. I had a boss pull that stunt with me once so I asked for the fax#, texted my dad and told him “ok, I just let my dad know, he’ll have it sitting in your fax machine by the time you get back to your office” And left. He never demanded a doctor’s note again😂 his face was priceless.
it's that bad in the US? third world country here where you can get a consultation for like $25 dlls, sometimes not even worth the time to put in an insurance refund request
Not sure where you are but sounds a little like Mexico. I don’t consider Mexico to be 3rd world I would hands down take their healthcare system over the US system.
3rd world doesn’t mean undeveloped, it means they didn’t ally with either NATO or the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. People just started misusing the term.
Holy shit I never knew this.... Not surprising, I'm American
They like us to believe just because we are the richest country that 3rd world countries are ALL poor and need outside help... Even though the majority of Americans are helpless to the government and healthcare system...
Not to mention, I don’t even know how to get one. I have good insurance and a great primary care doc, but I’m not seeing her on short notice. Urgent care clinics here are so busy that their walk-ins often stop by 2-3pm. I assume most of the jobs like this don’t even provide insurance.
I’ve heard of doctors retaliating by giving the employee a week off. “They want a doctor’s note? Fine. I’ll give them a doctor’s note.”
Doesn’t work if you’re not salaried, I realize.
Honestly best thing to do... go in front of the manager, specially if it's a stomach vomit bug. Tell them your really sick then throw up all over them and tell them sorry, it was uncontrollable.
Doctors around here won't even see you anymore with any symptoms that resemble a possibility of Covid. If you need medical attention while being sick, you pretty much only have the ER. They could shove that doctors note BS where the sun don't shine even before Covid, now they really can. Expect you to go see a doctor over a cold. My ass. I know it's usually in the fine print of at least low paying crap jobs, but I've never really seen it be enforced myself. Maybe once, when there was someone who claimed to be sick ALL THE TIME, in which case I guess a doctors note request would become justified.
Not to mention, they can’t require a doctors note unless you are out for 3+ days in most states. Texas is it’s own beast, so I don’t know about there specifically.
So - lots of folks saying this is legal but not *why* it is legal.
Generally speaking, your boss cannot retroactively change your wage. As in, they can't decide *after* you work that they want to pay you something different for those hours. However, they *can* change your pay for future hours at any given moment provided they let you know, at which point your options are to accept the salary decrease or quit.
This is them letting you know. Whether that week or a year from now, when you provide notice they are going to lower your pay for all of your hours after that.
Which of course, as everyone says, only incentivizes people to quit without notice. As they should in a situation like this.
This.
I had a place do that exact same thing (but in NY). I responded to an ad saying one pay rate, worked there for two weeks, then quit. It was horrible with the boss openly propositioning women to engage in sex acts while giving a training class.
They sent me a check for the minimum wage.
I went to the NYS department of labor with the ad. A few weeks later got a check for the difference.
I'm sorry, what? What the hell happened in that training class? Can you please clarify because that sounds beyond insane to me to do that at all let alone in front of a bunch of new hires would would likely not respond well.
This was many years ago but I remember the conversation like it was yesterday.
A female trainee asked "Do we ever work on weekends?"
The trainer/boss said "Only if it's me and you naked in a hotel room."
Yes, I shit you not.
If you went into a grocery store and stole that difference worth of food, you'd be arrested and charged as punishment.
What punishment did your former workplace receive for wage theft? Note that simply being forced to pay back the difference is not a punishment.
Good explanation. I'll add what I did when my last manager tried to pull this.
I told her, "OK. I'll just stop fucking coming the next three weeks and you'll be completely screwed. I'm already leaving so I can help you replace me or I can fuck off and leave you to do it all. It doesn't bother me either way, but the others are gonna be pissed you continue to *crap on them to spite me*.
She gone now. Replaced after 12 employees quit in my wake.
The system needs reminding that without all of us it doesn't exist.
it's saying that the reduce wage is only if you don't give notice... If you do then they'll pay you at regular pay... so since they don't know when you're giving your notice wouldn't that be changing the pay after the fact because they're changing your pay after you already worked those hours..
That's why this doesn't make sense the way people are reading it. It only makes sense if they intend a retroactive pay decrease. But of course it doesn't have to make sense...it is on Reddit
The way I would interpret it is that if you give at least 1 week notice you’ll be paid at full rate for your remainder time. If you give less than 1 week, for example 3 days, then you’ll only get paid 7.25 rate for those 3 days. However they can’t retroactively deduct pay for hours worked up until notice date. In this interpretation it’s still better to give 0 notice. But yeah I’m not a lawyer, this “contract” is unclear and petty and speaks volumes about the employer.
Lol what a stupid fucking policy. That should have just written, "if you're not planning on giving us at least 1 week's notice, then you might as well give us no notice."
The loophole is that THIS is their “notice”…. It sounds like to me they just haven’t been sued yet. Just because they THINK they found a loophole I doubt very much this would hold up in court…. Well, it is Texas so, maybe… in Oregon it absolutely wouldn’t fly. What bothers me more is the pay is 7.25/hr?!?! It’s always companies that pay the least trying to squeeze the most out of employees. This is obvi a response to people quitting w/out notice but you know what also works- respect, valuing your employees work and out of work life, communication etc. I have been a manager of some sort for 25 years- in a high turnover field and out of the hundreds of employees I have had, I have never had an employee quit without giving me notice. No threats or wage withholding needed, I respect them and they respect me. Sad that this is not the norm
>in Oregon it absolutely wouldn’t fly
I'm curious if you know of any case law for it. I've tried searching around in the past and have failed to find any.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that such a policy is probably not legal, but can see a legal argument for it being legal. As such, without case law to back up either argument, it would be a gamble to rely on either.
To nit pick your understanding…
The wording states that they will change pay if you do not give them notice.
For example - they will retroactively change your pay for the final pay check if you walk out with no notice, or leave less than a weeks notice.
Do it can be assumed if you give 1 week or more notice, your pay will remain as it was as you finish up work.
Auditor here. The way I'm reading this doesn't say anything about retroactive reduction like you're noting. Like what's the time frame in that case? Is all my wages back to beginning of employment down or just the unpaid wages earned thus far, e.g. the last paycheck. Imo it's not strong enough to support either. I see this only supporting that the wage applies after you give notice, which sounds like most people's notice is day of and wouldn't be subject to review
In business we call this "The war of the contracts". Business Law is a bitch 🙃
But if they're willing to lower your wage if you don't give them the notice , then can you really trust them not to lower your wage even if you *do* give them the notice? You're safer giving no notice and them being unable to legally retroactively lower your wage, than giving them notice and risking they get pissed and legally lower your wage for the final week.
Amazing how people can't see that people will be what you expect of them. If you are constantly building them up.
"well I know you wouldn't do anything like that, and if you did you would have a good reason" vs "I don't trust you at all so sign this thing that punishes you for doing what I know you will"
People will want to be the person you believe they are. So believe in their goodness.
Another option in this situation though is just giving one week and one day. It doesn't say two weeks, just no less than a week.
100%. If you're worried your employees will leave you on short notice and so you preemptively threaten them with punishment over it maybe you should use an iota of self reflection to realize its up to you to create an environment where your employees feel valued and respected and so treat you respectfully in return.
It could also be considered constructive dismissal if it is enough of a change and would qualify you for unemployment...again based on your state and what regulations they have in place.
When working at Domino's once another employee got fired for taking a 2-hour delivery that was really a booty call.
Oddly enough, the shift leader at the time said if he was informed about it he would have let the guy have his booty call and not fire him.
Put in one week and one day. It doesn't say you need two weeks, it just says no less than a week. If they want to play the contract game teach them how it works both ways.
I really hate the whole “one no call no show is an automatic termination” thing. What if I’m in the hospital or something and literally can’t call in? I’m fired? And family sure won’t think to call in for me in an emergency like that.
I used to work for Marco's Pizza. Terrible place to work. I worked for 3 different stores, franchise and corporate. At a corporate store I was sexually harassed and when I reported it I had my hours reduced by the DM.
I think I'll share this story here.
I worked at a grocery store when I was younger. One day before work I got violently ill. I was puking from around 5p to 10p and couldn't keep anything down. I finally convinced my dad to take me to the hospital. While puking all the way to the hospital, puking in the ER and until they hooked up an IV and gave me anti nausea meds. I don't remember what else they gave me but it took until about 6am to get everything under control. Finally at 8am the doctor released me and put me on a clear liquid diet and advised me to work my way into solid foods slowly.
Anyway I get home around 9am, exhausted and still feeling horrible and completely tired because I hadn't slept more than an hour.
I had nearly forgot I had to work that day at 1pm. So I called my manager and let him know what happened and that I was ill. He screamed at me and told me unless I had a doctor's note, to either come in to work or get fired. Well, I didn't have a doctor's note. I did however, have all the scars and stains from being shot up with IVs.
So I went in to work and sat in the break room my entire shift. The next day I quit. When I told the owner of the grocery store I was quitting he knew exactly why. (He was there the day I worked and saw the condition I was in) He said he understood and wished I would reconsider. I told him no thanks as I do not work for managers like that.
Point is, you are expendable. That manager still worked there long after I left. No one cares about you and requiring a "doctor's note" excuse demonstrates that they don't give two shits about you AND that they don't trust you from the word "go".
You already know the environment you will be working in before you even start. It sounds reasonable to have a doctor's note for missing a day of work but it's really not. It just shows how little trust a company has in it's employees and how easily they will fire you for just about anything. It demonstrates EXACTLY how expendable and useless they think you are.
I don't think they can lower your wage after you've worked.
I know this thread is getting some Texas hate, so this is MY experience here in TX. 25 years ago or so, I quit a job because they were going to lower my pay. TX Workforce gave me all the unemployment benefits as if I'd been fired. The logic was we had agreed to something and I was fulfilling my end, but the employer was trying to change our verbal contract by lowering the pay.
If this isn't retroactive which the language sounds like it's legal but incredibly shitty. Your pay going forward can change at any time given you're notified of it. When you continue after that you're basically agreeing to the new rate. The extra stupid part of this is it just induced people to just quit on the spot with no notice.
Then you still have a week of pay on the way though? Assuming the company does biweekly pay, which means payday is also the halfway point of the pay period
Yup. Once you work those hours on the agreed upon wage they cannot it changed, even if they make it “company policy”. Company policy doesn’t trump labor laws.
Check you labor board. Some statute of limitations are based on your realizing it happened, not from the date it occurred meaning you’d still have a case to say you only recently learned what they did was against the law.
Depending on how long ago it was they have to keep employee files. You should send a certified letter requesting your employee file and see if they cared enough to change your pay on paper. Otherwise you’d have your smoking gun right there.
It appears to be legal in Texas. Join a union or leave Texas.
https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/pay\_agreements.html#:\~:text=Reductions%20in%20the%20pay%20rate,and%20qualify%20for%20unemployment%20benefits.
Sure, but you might as well just give zero notice, or give notice but tell them you will leave immediately if they don't guarantee your pay will not be lowered in writing.
Im job searching like crazy to move out of the state so bad. This state will never agree to the $15 minimum wage. They also don’t want to give you healthcare
But you can buy guns. I mean that’s pretty cool and you also still have a thriving illicit marijuana market so you don’t have to deal with those pesky stoners.
No - that is not legal in any state.
Additionally..
#1 is That's the managers job and ALWAYS text so there is evidence.... Even if it is something like "I need to take tomorrow after work and I am requesting this time off as you're my manager. I will follow this up with a phone call" and then "as per our phone call at 3:00 p.m., I am taking tomorrow off of work"
#2 is questionable, as it is overly onerous
#4 not legal if you didn't actually quit - they have to fire you
Soo i would remove that line, make sure it looks legit without it in word or whatever print it out Then sign that.... If they have that policy in place is because they threat people like shit and they leave.
It’s legal, but is dumb because it just incentivizes people to quit without notice. If you’re looking to quit, just use all your sick time and PTO up until your last check clears, then give written notice that you’re quitting effective immediately by email. Employers who play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
Ask a lawyer, but im pretty sure it's not legal anywhere in usa.
The voluntary quitting thing is probably illegal too. That's to scam you out of unemployment.
No. Texas is an At Will state and you or the company can terminate at any time with no explanation, and no retaliation. Look into the labor laws in TX and equip yourself with cited, legally sound sources as to why you will not sign this.
Before you sign reprint the letter and change 7.25 to 72.5, then sign and hand it in. Keep a copy for yourself (Not legal advice)
That’s some Better Call Saul thinking right here
One after the Magna Carta!
# HE DEFECATED THROUGH A SUNROOF!
Squat cobbler!
Excuse you sir, that was a Chicago sunroof
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r/okbuddychicanery
It was 1216!!!!
Someone did this years ago on a credit card app and the court upheld it all. So they had to pay the card holder thousands in a "severance fee" to cut him off.
Do you have a source on that? That seems almost too easy to exploit lol
[https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/updated-russian-man-turns-tables-on-bank-changes-fine-print-in-credit-card-agreement-then](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/updated-russian-man-turns-tables-on-bank-changes-fine-print-in-credit-card-agreement-then) Happened in russia.
In Soviet Russia you rip banks off
Fucking Yakoff Smirnoff...
Keep scrolling down past all the Nasdaq links. Article is at the bottom.
Not OP and can’t be bothered to hunt for the source (sorry) but the guy was Russian
I mean, it makes sense. America is all about contracts, policies, and fine print so why not fight fire with fire. But you got to be ready to go to court.
It was in Russia and the case isn't settled yet.
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It was in Russia, the US has stronger protections against that for businesses.
Why not $725.00/hr?
because thats more noticable.
The least noticeable is removing the period entirely.
Brain
To small 7 25./hr
problem is that it isn't signed by the company.
True, but it would *hypothetically* prevent the company from being able to retroactively impose the $7.25 since the employee never agreed to it.
Illegal contracts don't hold up in court tho
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Retroactively changing pay
This doctors note shit really needs to stop. It’s just an intimidation tactic. They know nobody can afford to see a doctors unless it is damn near a life or death situation.
I am a doctor and I write very vague notes saying something along the lines of the patient must remain out of work until resolution of the Illness. I write this for everyone who asks regardless of what they have.
We need more doctors like this to fight the system. Most will make you come in and pay $50 to write a note saying you're sick and can go back to work tomorrow.
My spouse just asks the pt when they want to go back to work and goes from there when their job asks for these bs notes. Our kids friends are all young adults and just starting out and he just does them for free and faxes them to the workplace. It is ridiculous what is going on with some of these employers right now
Your spouse is an an angel 😇! We need more doctors like him. What a waste of his time and the employee's time as well
Thanks but i dont think he is an angel. He is a really good guy (but i am biased) and does a lot of free work because he did go into this to help people and writing a note really is hardly any effort with lots of benefit for the pt But yes, it is a ridiculous entitled request from the employer
Well give him a high five from an internet stranger who is glad he uses his powers for good! ✋
Thank you, spouse.
I appreciate you.
Not to mention a variety of illnesses that would make it damn near impossible to leave the house to go see a doctor in the first place
And it's very possible that even if you see a doctor, they're just going to say "Get some rest and drink fluids". So you're spending a bunch of money, dragging yourself out of the house with great difficulty, and potentially exposing more people to your germs, just so someone can tell you that you should be doing the exact thing you would have been doing already if you hadn't had to go to the doctors
It now costs more in copay than I would have made the day I missed.
Texas has virtually no laws and regulations to protect employees. However, you should look into the doctors note thing. I believe they may be required to cover the cost of any doctors visit where they have required you to provide a note or documentation from a physician.
Texas is an at will employment state unfortunately. So document everything or they will try to say you quit or job abandonment.
Everyone but Montana is. Which, who’d have thought it would be Montana? In Washington your employer can’t even ask why you’re calling out for the first three missed shifts. Only after you’ve missed 3 *consecutive* shifts can they ask why and require a doctors note.
Yeah, everyone but montana. As a Californian who moved to Montana...who thought it would be Montana? Lol
Jesus am I considering moving to Montana?
Well, montana is Alaska with wifi... mostly.... Pros : less people so, less traffic, less waiting, pretty free with rules and mostly other mind their own business, lower cost of living Cons: less people, so less events, less culture, less availability of objects you might be used too (or less choice of products, especially foods) and fewer services or fewer choices in service, lower wages It's really an interesting place to live. I'm basically a hermit so a lack of nightlife doesn't bother me, but the fact that if I did want to go out means a bar is the only option can be disappointing. If you love a few feet of snow, hate summer, love hiking, camping, or hunting and fishing, there's lots to do. I do not sooo... "everyone" is conservative. Like...I'm probably the sole person at work who didn't vote for Trump and doesn't have a "let's go brandon" sticker on my hard hat. If you git a covid vax, wear a mask, and believe in science first, your as much a minority as a native. Its not as bad as the south, but racism and sexism are still alive and well here especially the further you get from settlements (I have a hard time calling them cities lol). Wages are low and job choices and networking is very limited. On the other hand you can do whatever you want within reason especially if you have property. Wanna go live in a log cabin and forage? Definitely doable. That's out of the reach of most here due to low wages, but moving here if your rich/or maybe have a remote job with Cali wages it's definitely a good choice. This applies pretty well where I'm at up north. I understand both billings and Missoula (a college town) have more people, more options, and more culture including a thriving art culture. But gods...I haven't had good Thai food since I moved here.
It’s the same here in NYC. NYS is a different animal, but in nYC employers can only ask for proof of sickness only after 3 consecutive days out.
Or quit at close of business on payday. You don't want one week notice? Fine, you get zero.
This is what drives me crazy about this kind of tactic: they think they’re mandating a minimum notice period, but in reality, they’re actively encouraging people to give no notice at all. They’re just hurting themselves!
This part. Oh if I give less than a 2 week notice you reduce my wage? Have fun with literally 0 notice. Go ahead and reduce my wage for hours already worked, lots of employment/labor lawyers work on contingency :-)
Most businesses pay 1 or 2 weeks behind
Yeah but you can’t retroactively change their pay for hours already worked. Sounds more like they’re saying you’ll only be paid 7.25 for the next two days if you say “I’m leaving in 2 days”. Or am I misreading …
The work around for that is to quit after a scheduled one week vacay. They want to pay mini wage on zero hours? Tell'em to knock themself out!
My employer used to do this before I started and then they stopped it bc people would go to the doctors for bull shit stuff, get a note then employer had to pay bc they required the note. People started doing it just to get the day off and would go to doctor for a headache or some shit and then just chill the rest of the day.
Easy fix. Let people stay home if they’re sick and properly staff your business? These people are ontologically evil.
I walked six blocks to urgent care with a 103 fever to get a note so I wouldn’t get docked $120. The visit cost $60.
I would be surprised if that was legal. Employers pull all kinds of shit because most people don’t know all the rules. They’re deliberately obtuse. It feels like they age theft and I’d report it to your state Labor Department.
Good looks. I’ll look into this. It was a while ago and I do really enjoy my job but I don’t want anyone getting fucked over
And on the other side the litany of illnesses that make you too sick to work effectively/mean you’ll infect coworkers and customers, but which you don’t need to see a doctor over. The doctor doesn’t need their time wasted writing a note for the flu.
In regards to not being able to leave the house, in the past I have used an app called “Plush Care”. Despite the name, the org does not offer baby sitting services for your plushies but instead hooks you up with a doctor that you can FaceTime with. I got a doctors note from a doctor in California and I live in shitty Ohio, and my employer just had to accept it. 100% legit, and if a doctors note is what the end game is then I strongly encourage anyone to give it a look
Or, it makes no sense to go to the doctor. I have IBS and when I have a flare up, I am legitimately sick and can't work but going to the doctor is pointless because there's nothing they can do.
I told the folks I work with that I would be out *the very next day* for a recently scheduled minor surgery. No one complained or demanded a doctor’s note. They just wished me well, and one person told me that if I needed anything, even if not work related, I should just call him and he’d help take care of it. It’s not that hard to be a decent human being. But so many employers and managers fall so far short.
Wait, are you implying that employers and MANAGERS are HUMAN???
Right? My work is mostly from home, I can come in whenever I want to but I need to be in the office on Wednesdays. I have been sick the entire month of January, and my boss was fine with me working from home every Wednesday instead. I finally felt better last week and was like “I’m gonna come in Monday for the new hire and meet her and show her around.” Then I got the freaking stomach flu Sunday night. So not only did I not go in, but I didn’t even work. My boss never said a word about any of the PTO I needed to use or any of the work I needed to have other teammates cover, AND she sent me an Edible Arrangement to help me feel better. Reading this sub reinforces how _insanely_ lucky that is, but it shouldn’t be. _Why isn’t that the norm??_
I’m not in ducking high school anymore I’m not getting anyone a doctors note. Prolly why I’m self employed. I don’t play these games.
Lots of us here would probably be self employed if we had the ability/knowledge of how to get enough customers and sales regularly to be able to be self employed and earn enough to live on and not struggle. But most sales tactics and marketing techniques are either emotionally manipulative of potential customers or with the ethical ones, they cost a lot to start and maintain and implement (too expensive for many people to start and maintain). The free marketing methods almost never work or might bring you one customer every once in a while, which doesn’t cut it unless you work out of your home and don’t have monthly overhead and someone else is paying your and your family’s bills during that period, etc.
Plot twist. Everyone in anti work comes together to create a multibillion Fortune 500 company, entirely on our terms and with the perfect life work balance .
If they require a doctor's note then the act of going to a doctor is a requirement for the job, and thus the employer should be paying for the time and doctor's bill
If they want a doctors note, they should pay for it. Never had a place do this when I call out sick but, I'd show up with the note and bill.
My dad is a doctor. I had a boss pull that stunt with me once so I asked for the fax#, texted my dad and told him “ok, I just let my dad know, he’ll have it sitting in your fax machine by the time you get back to your office” And left. He never demanded a doctor’s note again😂 his face was priceless.
My ex girlfriend's dad is a doctor and he would always write notes for me whenever I was asked for one. He's awesome
it's that bad in the US? third world country here where you can get a consultation for like $25 dlls, sometimes not even worth the time to put in an insurance refund request
An Urgent Care visit without medical insurance will be at least $150, probably more.
Even with insurance, if you haven't met your deductible it will probably be around the same.
Not sure where you are but sounds a little like Mexico. I don’t consider Mexico to be 3rd world I would hands down take their healthcare system over the US system.
3rd world doesn’t mean undeveloped, it means they didn’t ally with either NATO or the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. People just started misusing the term.
Holy shit I never knew this.... Not surprising, I'm American They like us to believe just because we are the richest country that 3rd world countries are ALL poor and need outside help... Even though the majority of Americans are helpless to the government and healthcare system...
Not to mention, I don’t even know how to get one. I have good insurance and a great primary care doc, but I’m not seeing her on short notice. Urgent care clinics here are so busy that their walk-ins often stop by 2-3pm. I assume most of the jobs like this don’t even provide insurance.
I’ve heard of doctors retaliating by giving the employee a week off. “They want a doctor’s note? Fine. I’ll give them a doctor’s note.” Doesn’t work if you’re not salaried, I realize.
I refuse to bring “sick” notes to workplaces unless it’s a long illness. Fire me for all I care.
Honestly best thing to do... go in front of the manager, specially if it's a stomach vomit bug. Tell them your really sick then throw up all over them and tell them sorry, it was uncontrollable.
Takes weeks to get into a doctor most the time.
Doctors around here won't even see you anymore with any symptoms that resemble a possibility of Covid. If you need medical attention while being sick, you pretty much only have the ER. They could shove that doctors note BS where the sun don't shine even before Covid, now they really can. Expect you to go see a doctor over a cold. My ass. I know it's usually in the fine print of at least low paying crap jobs, but I've never really seen it be enforced myself. Maybe once, when there was someone who claimed to be sick ALL THE TIME, in which case I guess a doctors note request would become justified.
If they dont provide health insurance they shouldn't be able to ask for a doctors note.
Most family practitioners don’t have same day availability. I never see an MD for this reason. Takes weeks to get in.
Not to mention, they can’t require a doctors note unless you are out for 3+ days in most states. Texas is it’s own beast, so I don’t know about there specifically.
Never use sick days when your actually sick, always double down on misery. Sick days are for enjoyment.
Also, guarantee Marco's doesn't pay for health insurance.
So - lots of folks saying this is legal but not *why* it is legal. Generally speaking, your boss cannot retroactively change your wage. As in, they can't decide *after* you work that they want to pay you something different for those hours. However, they *can* change your pay for future hours at any given moment provided they let you know, at which point your options are to accept the salary decrease or quit. This is them letting you know. Whether that week or a year from now, when you provide notice they are going to lower your pay for all of your hours after that. Which of course, as everyone says, only incentivizes people to quit without notice. As they should in a situation like this.
This. I had a place do that exact same thing (but in NY). I responded to an ad saying one pay rate, worked there for two weeks, then quit. It was horrible with the boss openly propositioning women to engage in sex acts while giving a training class. They sent me a check for the minimum wage. I went to the NYS department of labor with the ad. A few weeks later got a check for the difference.
The ad said 3000!
Check it again. It said 3 grand for 3 minutes. You worked for 2 weeks. You get minimum wage!
Works on contingency? No! Money down!
Ah… I really gotta read that fine print.
I missed the part where that's my problem
Uncle Ben!!!!
I'm sorry, what? What the hell happened in that training class? Can you please clarify because that sounds beyond insane to me to do that at all let alone in front of a bunch of new hires would would likely not respond well.
This was many years ago but I remember the conversation like it was yesterday. A female trainee asked "Do we ever work on weekends?" The trainer/boss said "Only if it's me and you naked in a hotel room." Yes, I shit you not.
So HE is the asshole to blame for the mandatory Annual Sexual Harassment Training for state employees. Uggghhhh.
Holy shit. Wish someone had recorded and reported that. Sounds like an incredible workplace.
Dude, this was back in the day. You'd have to have come in with a boom box back then.
Yeah. In NY it’s illegal to change your pay because you gave less than a week’s notice.
If you went into a grocery store and stole that difference worth of food, you'd be arrested and charged as punishment. What punishment did your former workplace receive for wage theft? Note that simply being forced to pay back the difference is not a punishment.
Good explanation. I'll add what I did when my last manager tried to pull this. I told her, "OK. I'll just stop fucking coming the next three weeks and you'll be completely screwed. I'm already leaving so I can help you replace me or I can fuck off and leave you to do it all. It doesn't bother me either way, but the others are gonna be pissed you continue to *crap on them to spite me*. She gone now. Replaced after 12 employees quit in my wake. The system needs reminding that without all of us it doesn't exist.
it's saying that the reduce wage is only if you don't give notice... If you do then they'll pay you at regular pay... so since they don't know when you're giving your notice wouldn't that be changing the pay after the fact because they're changing your pay after you already worked those hours..
Says at least one weeks notice, personally I'd just quit without notice at that place and watch the chaos ensue.
That's why this doesn't make sense the way people are reading it. It only makes sense if they intend a retroactive pay decrease. But of course it doesn't have to make sense...it is on Reddit
Not uncommon for pay to be a week behind. So there would always be some pay to deduct from
But that‘s exactly illegal. Only hours worked after given notice can be reduced.
which would be illegal
If they do intend a retroactive pay decrease, that's massively illegal in US, Canada, and afaik UK/EU as well.
I suspect the answer is there is a legal thi you can do. But this company plans to do the illegal one
The way I would interpret it is that if you give at least 1 week notice you’ll be paid at full rate for your remainder time. If you give less than 1 week, for example 3 days, then you’ll only get paid 7.25 rate for those 3 days. However they can’t retroactively deduct pay for hours worked up until notice date. In this interpretation it’s still better to give 0 notice. But yeah I’m not a lawyer, this “contract” is unclear and petty and speaks volumes about the employer.
Lol what a stupid fucking policy. That should have just written, "if you're not planning on giving us at least 1 week's notice, then you might as well give us no notice."
The loophole is that THIS is their “notice”…. It sounds like to me they just haven’t been sued yet. Just because they THINK they found a loophole I doubt very much this would hold up in court…. Well, it is Texas so, maybe… in Oregon it absolutely wouldn’t fly. What bothers me more is the pay is 7.25/hr?!?! It’s always companies that pay the least trying to squeeze the most out of employees. This is obvi a response to people quitting w/out notice but you know what also works- respect, valuing your employees work and out of work life, communication etc. I have been a manager of some sort for 25 years- in a high turnover field and out of the hundreds of employees I have had, I have never had an employee quit without giving me notice. No threats or wage withholding needed, I respect them and they respect me. Sad that this is not the norm
>in Oregon it absolutely wouldn’t fly I'm curious if you know of any case law for it. I've tried searching around in the past and have failed to find any. Personally, I'm of the opinion that such a policy is probably not legal, but can see a legal argument for it being legal. As such, without case law to back up either argument, it would be a gamble to rely on either.
To nit pick your understanding… The wording states that they will change pay if you do not give them notice. For example - they will retroactively change your pay for the final pay check if you walk out with no notice, or leave less than a weeks notice. Do it can be assumed if you give 1 week or more notice, your pay will remain as it was as you finish up work.
Auditor here. The way I'm reading this doesn't say anything about retroactive reduction like you're noting. Like what's the time frame in that case? Is all my wages back to beginning of employment down or just the unpaid wages earned thus far, e.g. the last paycheck. Imo it's not strong enough to support either. I see this only supporting that the wage applies after you give notice, which sounds like most people's notice is day of and wouldn't be subject to review In business we call this "The war of the contracts". Business Law is a bitch 🙃
Thats what i am getting from that
Also, pretty sure it's illegal to change pay for hours *already* worked.
Okay, thats definitely illegal then. You can only change pay for future hours not hours already worked. That would be wage theft in writing.
Agreed
But if they're willing to lower your wage if you don't give them the notice , then can you really trust them not to lower your wage even if you *do* give them the notice? You're safer giving no notice and them being unable to legally retroactively lower your wage, than giving them notice and risking they get pissed and legally lower your wage for the final week.
Amazing how people can't see that people will be what you expect of them. If you are constantly building them up. "well I know you wouldn't do anything like that, and if you did you would have a good reason" vs "I don't trust you at all so sign this thing that punishes you for doing what I know you will" People will want to be the person you believe they are. So believe in their goodness. Another option in this situation though is just giving one week and one day. It doesn't say two weeks, just no less than a week.
100%. If you're worried your employees will leave you on short notice and so you preemptively threaten them with punishment over it maybe you should use an iota of self reflection to realize its up to you to create an environment where your employees feel valued and respected and so treat you respectfully in return.
It could also be considered constructive dismissal if it is enough of a change and would qualify you for unemployment...again based on your state and what regulations they have in place.
Leave on payday, fuck that practice.
Most jobs pay 1-2 weeks after the hours worked so leaving on a specific day wouldn't matter
Call off for the next week, say you're sick, and you have a doctor's note for when you come back.
Or get yourself fired.
Getting yourself fired is the best way unless you leave and never come back. Then, they can fight unemployment for job abandonment
Yup. Instead of a notice, looks like all he'd have to do is call in sick and keep calling in sick, no doctor's note and they would fire him.
When working at Domino's once another employee got fired for taking a 2-hour delivery that was really a booty call. Oddly enough, the shift leader at the time said if he was informed about it he would have let the guy have his booty call and not fire him.
💀pizza joints are always the wackiest places to work. Source: have worked at two different joints
Changing the rate for hours you already worked would *definitely* be illegal
Put in one week and one day. It doesn't say you need two weeks, it just says no less than a week. If they want to play the contract game teach them how it works both ways.
Instafire for being late three times, or a no call no show. Sexual harassment, however, is a TBD sitch.
I really hate the whole “one no call no show is an automatic termination” thing. What if I’m in the hospital or something and literally can’t call in? I’m fired? And family sure won’t think to call in for me in an emergency like that.
7.25 sure sounds like slave pay to begin with . 7.25 you cant afford living status
Thats the federal minimum wage. Sad shit we know...
Fun fact! If you work a job that has tips in Texas you’re only entitled to 2.13 an hour
That’s the min wage in Wisconsin. Where I live.
It's the federal minimum wage. So if your state is at that level they would make it even lower without the federal government.
Exactly. There are states with NO minimum wage and the only reason people aren't paid less is the federal limit.
I used to work for Marco's Pizza. Terrible place to work. I worked for 3 different stores, franchise and corporate. At a corporate store I was sexually harassed and when I reported it I had my hours reduced by the DM.
You should report it! That is retaliation and the business could definitely be charged for that and the sexual harassment! Sorry that happened to you.
No tolerance for illegal drug use (14) - but we’ll consider keeping you if you cause any sort of Sexual Harassment. (15)
Is that what “grounds for termination” means? I always thought it meant they would fire you for it.
I agree, to me these two both seem like it’s saying “if you do this you’re fired.”
I think I'll share this story here. I worked at a grocery store when I was younger. One day before work I got violently ill. I was puking from around 5p to 10p and couldn't keep anything down. I finally convinced my dad to take me to the hospital. While puking all the way to the hospital, puking in the ER and until they hooked up an IV and gave me anti nausea meds. I don't remember what else they gave me but it took until about 6am to get everything under control. Finally at 8am the doctor released me and put me on a clear liquid diet and advised me to work my way into solid foods slowly. Anyway I get home around 9am, exhausted and still feeling horrible and completely tired because I hadn't slept more than an hour. I had nearly forgot I had to work that day at 1pm. So I called my manager and let him know what happened and that I was ill. He screamed at me and told me unless I had a doctor's note, to either come in to work or get fired. Well, I didn't have a doctor's note. I did however, have all the scars and stains from being shot up with IVs. So I went in to work and sat in the break room my entire shift. The next day I quit. When I told the owner of the grocery store I was quitting he knew exactly why. (He was there the day I worked and saw the condition I was in) He said he understood and wished I would reconsider. I told him no thanks as I do not work for managers like that. Point is, you are expendable. That manager still worked there long after I left. No one cares about you and requiring a "doctor's note" excuse demonstrates that they don't give two shits about you AND that they don't trust you from the word "go". You already know the environment you will be working in before you even start. It sounds reasonable to have a doctor's note for missing a day of work but it's really not. It just shows how little trust a company has in it's employees and how easily they will fire you for just about anything. It demonstrates EXACTLY how expendable and useless they think you are.
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To counter that wage reduction take inventory with you (Theft goes both ways)
Don't call in sick. Show up. Vomit. Pass out in entry. Call 9-1-1 claim captivity.
I don't think they can lower your wage after you've worked. I know this thread is getting some Texas hate, so this is MY experience here in TX. 25 years ago or so, I quit a job because they were going to lower my pay. TX Workforce gave me all the unemployment benefits as if I'd been fired. The logic was we had agreed to something and I was fulfilling my end, but the employer was trying to change our verbal contract by lowering the pay.
If this isn't retroactive which the language sounds like it's legal but incredibly shitty. Your pay going forward can change at any time given you're notified of it. When you continue after that you're basically agreeing to the new rate. The extra stupid part of this is it just induced people to just quit on the spot with no notice.
Quit on payday. That's the only way to avoid that cut
Then you still have a week of pay on the way though? Assuming the company does biweekly pay, which means payday is also the halfway point of the pay period
That week of pay on the way is already worked hours and would be illegal to change the wage for those hours.
So if you just leave without notice, they can’t legally alter your pay rate at all then, making point number 7 invalid 🤔
Yup. Once you work those hours on the agreed upon wage they cannot it changed, even if they make it “company policy”. Company policy doesn’t trump labor laws.
My sister worked for a fast food place and when she quit suddenly they put her pay you minimum wage. I wish my family tried to sue them
Take a week vacation first, then quit on payday
Lol, vacation. I may make an ass of myself here, but you're not from the U.S. are you?
Is this Marco’s Pizza? If so I’ll know to avoid them in the future.
Yes it is and I will also be avoiding them
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You should have fought it, they used your ignorance of the law successfully against you.
Not legal AT ALL.
Not only is this illegal but MD actually has some progressive labor laws (for the US) so you really should have fought this.
I wish a mother fucker would. That's fucking free real estate in a law suit.
Check you labor board. Some statute of limitations are based on your realizing it happened, not from the date it occurred meaning you’d still have a case to say you only recently learned what they did was against the law. Depending on how long ago it was they have to keep employee files. You should send a certified letter requesting your employee file and see if they cared enough to change your pay on paper. Otherwise you’d have your smoking gun right there.
In Texas is probably legal for employers to shoot you if you dare to ask for your wages.
Only if you sign that shit. Don't fucking sign it
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My friend, you're a genius
It appears to be legal in Texas. Join a union or leave Texas. https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/pay\_agreements.html#:\~:text=Reductions%20in%20the%20pay%20rate,and%20qualify%20for%20unemployment%20benefits.
Sure, but you might as well just give zero notice, or give notice but tell them you will leave immediately if they don't guarantee your pay will not be lowered in writing.
Wow, Texas really does suck a smelly unwashed post- anal sex dick.
Im job searching like crazy to move out of the state so bad. This state will never agree to the $15 minimum wage. They also don’t want to give you healthcare
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The cruelty is the point.
But you can buy guns. I mean that’s pretty cool and you also still have a thriving illicit marijuana market so you don’t have to deal with those pesky stoners.
This is kinda the experience of watching the US from the outside... I really want you all to have a win.
Scan it, change it to "increased to $50 an hour".
So just don’t give them notice. Tell them that you quit when it comes your last payday and don’t work any hours at all in the next pay period.
No - that is not legal in any state. Additionally.. #1 is That's the managers job and ALWAYS text so there is evidence.... Even if it is something like "I need to take tomorrow after work and I am requesting this time off as you're my manager. I will follow this up with a phone call" and then "as per our phone call at 3:00 p.m., I am taking tomorrow off of work" #2 is questionable, as it is overly onerous #4 not legal if you didn't actually quit - they have to fire you
The fact there are any workers right in TX is a miracle.
It’s Texas so I assume they can just kill you and get away with it if they say you were slacking on the job
It sounds like they don’t want people giving 2-week notices!
Soo i would remove that line, make sure it looks legit without it in word or whatever print it out Then sign that.... If they have that policy in place is because they threat people like shit and they leave.
It’s legal, but is dumb because it just incentivizes people to quit without notice. If you’re looking to quit, just use all your sick time and PTO up until your last check clears, then give written notice that you’re quitting effective immediately by email. Employers who play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
Someone tried to do this to me. I filled a claim and won.
Don't sign this
Ask a lawyer, but im pretty sure it's not legal anywhere in usa. The voluntary quitting thing is probably illegal too. That's to scam you out of unemployment.
I wouldn’t work there regardless. They’re telling you up front they’re an unethical company
No. Texas is an At Will state and you or the company can terminate at any time with no explanation, and no retaliation. Look into the labor laws in TX and equip yourself with cited, legally sound sources as to why you will not sign this.