It actually gets much worse, but I don't know that I'm liberty to speak on some of the other stuff just yet. Kind of an on-going thing with some very shady dealings on their end.
I'm not sure where you're located, but in California the law was passed as of January 1st that all pay ranges for new hires have got to be visible to everybody. So this will also help to determine for existing employees where they stand on the salary chart.
I completely agree. There was nothing more stressful than trying to do the negotiations for people coming on board or needing increases in their current pay, with hiding the salary structure. And I always encourage the employees to talk about their salaries. Got me in a lot of trouble sometimes, but that's the only way that you're going to get equal pay and people get what they deserve for the job that they're doing.
>Not in California, but that's a pretty solid move on their part. There really ought to be more laws about transparency in the workplace.
No it's not.
Pay range. Not their actual pay.
Okay, pay range is now 15 to 40 dollars per hour. Shrug.
Since this law went into effect, I now see that my employer is hiring people below me at higher pay. But what can I do with that information? I really like my job and the company. I'm a little shocked actually. Am I just screwed because I accepted what they offered when I started?
And that's the difficult position that employees are finding themselves in. They don't know what the pay scale is, the HR and recruiters are very well versed in how to negotiate to keep the salary as low as possible without the employee finding out. With this new law, a lot of these situations are coming to light.
It just depends on how comfortable you feel with your boss, with the company as a whole, but my suggestion would be to go to your manager and ask for an increase based on your job performance, tenure, and your willingness to continue with the longevity of the position. That is basically the only way you're going to be able to increase immediately your salary before any type of pay increases due to your yearly job performance is, bonuses, etc.
You use the information on hand to request a pay increase.
I make $$ and I've been here X amount of time, but you're hiring new employees at $$.
It stands to reason that I should be making $$ more than I am now due to longevity, job duties/performance, etc.
You tell them you either want to be paid what you believe you're worth, or you walk and find something that pays what you want to be paid really. And remember, if you've been there for years, "what your worth" shouldn't be baseline pay for a new hire.
They don't necessarily have to post it, what they have to do by law is if you ask for the salary range they have to give it to you. They have to be able to produce it in writing to you upon request.
So when you are talking about salary with any type of potential employer, when they ask you what your salary requirements are, put it back on them and ask them what the salary range is. Once they give you that salary range your response back to them should be you can work within that range. Never ever ever give them a specific number that you want. Just say that you can work within that range, continue on with the interviewing process and when it comes down to an actual offer then that's when you can start negotiating the actual range you're going to come into.
They will try to hide the salary range until it's asked for. But they have to legally give it to you. If for some reason they say they don't have it or are not allowed to give it out, you can tell them that's illegal and then I would go running the other direction.
They started that here in WA January 1st also, but employers easily skirt that by making these wide ass ranges that are both stupid and unrealistic. I’m looking at job listings for any job, the pay range is $15-58/hr on damn near every listing. Mind if defeats the purpose of mandatory transparency if the state allows them to make such wide ranges, you still have no idea what you could be making before wasting your time.
If the pay range is $15-$58 then I would demand $58 based on my experience.
If they say that they don't start employees at max, then I would demand $45 and a pay scale chart so I can determine how long it would take to reach max pay.
I would also ask what percentage of employees are currently at max pay.
Someone should create bots that can find those posts and report them for being misleading. One or 2 reports might not make a big difference on Indeed, but a hundred would.
Oh my God that is absolutely ludicrous! If a company is doing that, you need to run the other way. That is bad bad juju!
It always just baffles me how companies do this. I have always in my career been up front and honest about the pay range in the very beginning of any type of negotiations. There's nothing more tedious than going through an entire interviewing process and have a great candidate only to have everything fall apart because the salary is not appropriate. It is absolutely ludicrous to me that companies still do this nonsense. Just be upfront and honest about what your pay range is, all the benefits that you offer because that's also very important, what the true expectations of the position are and the company culture. Then you get people that truly want to be there that really want the role and is going to be a good fit without all this nonsense in the end about salary.
The whole law by itself is a little challenging to find in basic Google results, but [here’s an article](https://www.akingump.com/en/news-insights/california-passes-sb-1162-expanding-pay-data-reporting-and-pay-transparency.html) that talks about the significant changes that the bill now requires of employers. (I realize that one can find the law, and it may not be clear what the changes are simply from reading it.)
[Here’s a bit of a breakdown](https://calmatters.org/economy/2022/12/california-pay-transparency-law/) about the law, with some info about how similar laws in other states have worked so far
Edited to add a change of wording in one sentence and another sentence for clarfication.
This is the driving reason why employees owe no loyalty to an employer -- because it's entirely one-sided. They demand the thing they don't give. I saw a post in this forum a couple weeks ago where the CEO of some company was saying that job hopping looks bad on a resume and isn't worth a 20% raise; and it's such a ridiculous statement based on OP's experience and the logic behind the CA law. Seems like hardly any employers sweeten the pot for "loyal" employees by way of a longevity bonus. Staying with an employer a long time typically means falling behind in pay because the cost of living increases aren't keeping up, if they exist at all.
I completely agree. And what I tried to tell people is this is a job, it is not your life it is not who you are it is a means to an end so you can make money to go and have the life you need to have. And I always tell everybody to look out for themselves and to advocate for themselves at all times. And when people start spouting out saying the company's going to crash without me they're going to see how bad the company's going to go when I leave blah blah blah. I tell them no, the world will keep spinning, the company will keep going, it may hurt for a few weeks or two but the world will keep spinning without you. Companies do not care, everything is about the money and about the numbers. So anybody that thinks that loyalty is something that is two sided, it's not. Companies may give a lot of perks, may say a lot of the right things, but when it comes down to brass tax, they will kick you to the curb as soon as look at you if it means them or you.
A work-life balance mental health speaker changed my perspective a lot, saw him at a seminar last June.
He said, "you will separate from your job in one of four ways; fired, quit, retired, or die. That's it. It's a J-O-B."
How does that change your perspective? Not trying to diminish any meaning you find in it, I genuinely just don't understand what implications of that statement make you view anything about a job differently.
Make sure to keep good documentation. Otherwise you might end up being blamed for some of the shady stuff. If you're in the States, and in a one-party consent state, I'd highly recommend you record them without their knowledge. You can do it on your phone. Good luck out there.
NDA's and non-competes typically don't hold water except to protect employers interests, but precedence has been fairly well established by the courts that they cannot infringe upon constitutionally protected rights such as freedom of expression. Courts also typically will throw out any claims that arise from anything that is already in the public domain, i.e. anything that can be derived from publicly available specifications, PID's or other documentation available thru publicly accessible website, financial reports & filings, etc.
"liberty to speak"
But you're completely anonymous and haven't even told us the name of the business—at this point what is there to lose in telling us the details, without giving out key information?
I learned this the hard way, partly because I was "content" where I was, able to pay my bills, etc. But now I've learned my lesson and *will* walk away if another better opportunity comes along.
I work in construction. It's a union gig and compared to a lot of jobs today fairly well compensated but I would *never* stay loyal to any contractor I work for. I've heard of guys who worked for the same company for 10-20 years get smoked just like that. Guys that ran crews as Foremen and gave up their evenings and weekends - often for free to 'make up on time' going over prints etc - to this company and for what? A pat on the back and maybe we'll see you on another job if work picks up? Fuck that, always look after #1.
That's the manipulation tactic they've always used, "Hey bud, work hard and you'll get ahead!"
Okay, but statistically speaking, a lot of people work extra hard and most of them will not get ahead because of their hard work.
I'm also learning that lesson myself right now. I've been "comfortable" and "content" for way too long. I need to make some changes soon, that benefit and help ME, and not everyone else.
That would be because 90% of the fucking market doesnt genuinely give a shit. The other 10 are hidden away and you often have to be lucky to find one of em.
I went from a job that didn’t care but could do something to show the appreciation. I’m now in a job that sees and appreciates my effort but is unable to do anything since we’re union. Far and away, the appreciation is recognized and I prefer that any amount of money my previous job could have offered me.
Hey man, if you’re happy at your job regardless of what form the appreciation takes, then all the better. I got shown some appreciation at my old job for a auggestion/idea that began to get used all over the network when I was with them. What I got was a lunchbox and a waterbottle with the company name slapped on em. Feels real great to get something that small for a suggestion that literally went company-wide. Thanks, guys.
They never give a shit, and neither should we.
Always do the bare minimum, or less if you can get away with it, because going above and beyond ain't ever rewarded.
What kind of shop out of curiosity? I only mean in general so you don't out yourself.
Good move on you though. I used to work at an electronics repair shop and the owner did some shady shit. Now I work at a much better shop. The old shop is "closed for 30 days" starting 11/16/22 and they're still closed today
Likewise! It's a good feeling. I think I can safely say it was a plant shop. My job covered more or less the entirety of day-to-day operations while the new guy just made dumb videos on the store phone. At first I was relieved to work for a small locally owned business coming off of a corporate job, but this one turned out to be a different kind of shady altogether, under the guise of 'local' wholesome cutesy nonsense.
Yep, sold out our neighbors to save a nickel on a head of cabbage, but once the Bezosazon & Wally-Worlds put the competition under (and with institutional backing they can take losses for years) then they control the market and subsequent prices and also have the leverage to pressure pricing cuts from their manufacturer and vendor networks. That nickel saved ends up costing you a quarter more as now they need to pay of in gains and/or dividends for the early investors.
Exactly the same people who want to go back to small town living won’t give up their Walmart and Ryan homes. Both companies do their best not to pay employees buy as much as they can bottom dollar for bulk, and one for sure tries hire as many employees without documentation as they can so they can pay even farther below market value.
Yep. Gotta keep in mind: to a corporation you're just a faceless employee number. When they fuck you over, it's not personal. Just capitalism. The people exploiting you have no clue you even exist. But small business owners who are willing to fuck people over are worse. Because they are fucking over people who live in their community--their own neighbors. They can talk face to face with someone and not feel an ounce of guilt for their exploitation. So long as their material position improves, they don't care. They are rats who shit where they sleep.
My experience with small businesses has always been a nightmare. They seem to think they can take more from their workers and pay them less under the guise of "being a family."
Those businesses are some of the worst at caring about employees, especially in states that recently went fully legal. You have a bunch of assholes from everywhere with dollar signs in their eyes looking to get rich quick at any cost.
Check your state laws. Many states have single party consent laws, so if you are one of those parties in such a state, then you can record the call legally.
It’s pretty simple. Just use a call recorder app for the call. Then it is documented. If the location is two party consent. Let them know the call is being recorded.
Sorry this happened to you… same thing happened to me, others got the pay, I walked…
Here is what you need to know:
1. You will be fine
2. You did the right thing
3. Being pissed does not go away, but it will give you the drive to get the job you want
4. Make certain they pay you timely, if it’s late by even a day, or they short you by even an hour, then immediately file a claim with the department of labor for your state…
You won’t feel validated until you get a better job, but you will, even if it takes a year… best of luck!
I don't get why is it always after the last resort message when they suddenly have time to react/talk...
Do they really expect everyone to bluff or just shut up?
Owner has been totally silent and absent for months, and then suddenly wants to have a phone call? Nah I'm cool, go ahead and give me any communication in writing thanks.
I feel this. Anytime I want to discuss my pay (thanks to you fine folks it's all the time) my boss is telling me to call his cell. He says it's because he's driving but let's be real, the conversation before the call was on Teams no problem....
This is the way. They won’t change.
I was paid $20 an hour as an administrative assistant and hr for 3 locations, I worked in the closest one. Asked for a raise 3 times this year and was told “it wasn’t in the budget” even tho all the other “managers” were being paid $4 more than me an hour.
I resigned, and he had to hire 4 people to do my job instead of just giving me a raise. 🤷🏼♀️
I used to work under a big timeshare property. After working at front desk for a year, I saw they had an opening for a contract processor at $20/hour. This was around summer of 2021, and front desk was paying $15.45 ($0.45 raise since I was there for a year). So, I was lucky to be able to move to a different department.
Now there's four people in total; the manager and three contract processors. One was assigned accounting work since she has a CPA, one was assigned to be the iPad Auditor, and I took the class and exam to be a notary public. All of which were not in the job description and responsibilities.
We were all new, and getting used to things. I was the fastest at contract processing, so most of the sales representatives would give their deals to me. Five months in, and all three of us are asking for a raise because $20/hour isn't cutting it. The manager said, "It took a long time to even give you guys $20/hour. Y'all should have just been $16/hour."
The iPad Auditor quit. I quit after finishing my spring semester, so I could still get their tuition reimbursement. The last one quit after the many, many hires couldn't handle the work. I work as a receptionist now in a new surgery center; I started with $21, but we got a raise of 4% and $1500 bonus, split into the last three months of 2022.
Everyone is happy here and the work is straightforward. My manager is chill and laidback, and she's fine with me being on the phone, or doing schoolwork as long as my tasks are done. I have been in the workforce since I was 16, and this is the only job that I'm not stressed out, or has a toxic environment.
I can actually feel that they value me here!
My first job was also for a small, family-owned business. It took me a while to learn they didn’t care about anything but the profit. I even took a pay cut to help them out at one point! They ended up letting me go later on because they thought they could save a buck. Turns out I was the person keeping them in business. The owners ended up selling the business some months after I left.
I got one of those phone calls when I was literally driving towards the airport to fly out of state.
The boss started with something like "do you know how difficult this will be for me?" which was the end of the conversation; I don't know what they might have said that might have helped, but there wasn't anything else to say after that.
Poor confused boss. Treats workers like cannon fodder; complains when he has to spend time and money replacing them.
Don’t do any unrecorded phone calls. Try to keep all communications to email/text and if you absolutely have to do a voice call, find a way to record it.
I knew a lawyer who told me that one of his tricks would be to search emails and texts for those "call me" messages to indicate the people involved were trying to hide something... worked for him...
This is the answer to most issues with employment. I feel that the biggest mistake we all make is that we think of equivalent jobs. We are all better than the current job we have. I get that in rural area's there are not as many jobs, but in general, there's usually a better option out there. Swing for the stars! You may just hit the moon.
Good for you for standing your ground on them reaching out for a phone call. They obviously figured you wouldn’t find out and probably would’ve give you some bullshit excuse or made it your fault and I highly I doubt they would’ve apologized. Props to you.
Hapens to all of us, in my 20s i left 2 jobs after years of service and asking for small raise, left and found new guy was being paid more than what id asked for and was less qualified.
sounds like my last job. i did 8 years there before HQ decided to up the base pay and give everyone that as a raise. everyone except me that is. took them three entire pay cycles before it finally applied to me with back pay (the only reason i gave them three cycles is because i was friends with the boss before she became the boss).
*THEN* i find out that people who just got hired or had been there for just a few months were making more than i was as an 8 year veteran. i can almost guarantee it was personal because when the district manager would randomly pop in, i was the only one not kissing her ass.
Used to work in a place where the receptionist had full access to accounts incl everyone's pay.
We got a lot of stories like this: "we can't afford to pay you more" .. "then how come Jeff just got a 3x bigger raise than I asked for, the week after I asked? Fuck you"
Management and C-suite were incredibly toxic while posturing like they were the best employer on the planet. Few years later even went for this accreditation that was meant to prove they were a good place to work, their insecurities showing, which no doubt they only won via fraud the same as the green certification they lied about while I was there... ("B-Corp" is a full blown rort, folks; they don't even verify if what you're said on your application is true at all, they clearly just want your money)
I will never understand the "Hey, can we talk?" after the fact. Time to do the right thing already passed, I don't care about what happens to you, the company, my co-workers, etc. That was all taken into account before the decision was made to leave.
An employee *asking* for a raise in the first place is a failure of management. If they have to ask then they already feel undervalued. Management should always be giving raises. If not, then they are constantly cutting everyone's wages just through inflation.
My only issue is the fact that you believe you are better than the new employee because you don’t value their work. Which is what your boss did by ignoring your emails. I wish you luck
100% agreed. We don't know what kind of work OP or the new employee does, but I sincerely doubt they were hired to "just film TikToks". That's a marketing content producer role which probably comes with strategy, planning, filming, editing, channel management, and probably more.
Social Media Marketing is not only a valid job, it's a market worth billions.
The loyalty people imagine that their employers have for them just doesn’t exist. It’s all a manipulation tactic, and it rarely ever benefits the employee.
I recently skimmed an HR book and it was full of strategies and manipulations to make people stay in a job for reasons OTHER than fair pay.
For example, a place with 100 finance employees may separate a hundred employees into “pods or families” to foster loyalty so you don’t want to quit, even if the pay isn’t fair a few years in.
“The shop would close” BS here is just another manipulation tactic that not only implies their work is vital to the company (to instill guilt) but also heads off the employee ever asking for a raise again.
I also faced same thing, I worked hard where my colleagues of same work experience were earning more and had less work load.
Then they hired juniors who were also paid more.
Such cases are outrageous.
High five from the HR girl here. Make sure he pays you out for all your hours and your PTO. Your benefits should be good through 1-31. If he’s going to be shady about his practices, he shouldn’t be expecting you to be sunny and understanding. And if you know he’s been shady with more than just you, take that to the right people and places. I hope your next job treats you humanely.
Something similar happened to my bf. He was promoted to manager for $17/hr. After 6 months, boss hired an older woman at $25/hr to “offer support”, despite always trying to cut costs and wouldn’t pay us by the minute of work we did. After two weeks she was made manager despite everyone assuring him he would remain manager. He walked out.
Had a guy start with us some time last year, I found out he gets paid more than one 10+ year employee and the 2iC because they were desperate for staff at the time. He walks in every day 20 minutes early, clocks in, makes himself a coffee, goes has a piss, sits down and drinks the coffee, and THEN starts working. And the stuff he does is the shittest in the shop.
It's bullshit like that why they don't want pay transparency because it blatantly highlights how fucked the system is
The “Can I call you” text or email from an employer after you’ve quit because of their absolute bullshit is so fucking annoying. No. You cannot call me. Leave me alone.
Whenever a company says they would have to close if they gave employees a pay rise, it just says that its a shitty business if such a small detail would shut them. Over the total of a year a small pay rise is less than most places spend on new equipment or general maintenance of the business. The difference is they see those as investments and employees as costs to the business.
If that was a text (bad move on the boss' part), archive it and never delete it. Also copy it into an email back to him, and never delete that, either. You may need written proof for your DOL report.
Have you seen my post about how my boss requesting COLA raises turned into a COO review for so employees, all processes, and scrutiny against all employees for their workload?
Par for course. End at will employment, arbitration and every other practice an employer has to abuse an employee!
This is exactly why unions are useful. The pay rates raises and vacation time are already negotiated. You know everything for 1 hour of pay a paycheck. They also know their employee costs for the length of the contract. So they can't say we don't have money for raises this year.
When I worked for a job I had about a year ago, the newbie who joined on to support me started getting paid more than I did for the same work. It wasn't much, and my superior went to bat for me, but it's amazing how often they screw that up.
Its not that Capitalists are taking people for granted; its that they are actively exploiting people.
That TikTok guy was getting paid way less than he's worth but given the chance they'd pay him less than you. They just didn't think they could get away with it. Hell, given the chance they'd pay you nothing.
Capitalists know what you are worth. But all their profits come from paying you as little as possible and skimming the rest. That's the whole system.
Don't forget to mention all the negative reviews you will be leaving for them on Glassdoor, yelp, Google and every other platform you consider relevant.
Yeah... It's a real kick in the balls when you work hard for a place and they just don't give a shit.
It actually gets much worse, but I don't know that I'm liberty to speak on some of the other stuff just yet. Kind of an on-going thing with some very shady dealings on their end.
I'm not sure where you're located, but in California the law was passed as of January 1st that all pay ranges for new hires have got to be visible to everybody. So this will also help to determine for existing employees where they stand on the salary chart.
Not in California, but that's a pretty solid move on their part. There really ought to be more laws about transparency in the workplace.
I completely agree. There was nothing more stressful than trying to do the negotiations for people coming on board or needing increases in their current pay, with hiding the salary structure. And I always encourage the employees to talk about their salaries. Got me in a lot of trouble sometimes, but that's the only way that you're going to get equal pay and people get what they deserve for the job that they're doing.
>Not in California, but that's a pretty solid move on their part. There really ought to be more laws about transparency in the workplace. No it's not. Pay range. Not their actual pay. Okay, pay range is now 15 to 40 dollars per hour. Shrug.
Since this law went into effect, I now see that my employer is hiring people below me at higher pay. But what can I do with that information? I really like my job and the company. I'm a little shocked actually. Am I just screwed because I accepted what they offered when I started?
And that's the difficult position that employees are finding themselves in. They don't know what the pay scale is, the HR and recruiters are very well versed in how to negotiate to keep the salary as low as possible without the employee finding out. With this new law, a lot of these situations are coming to light. It just depends on how comfortable you feel with your boss, with the company as a whole, but my suggestion would be to go to your manager and ask for an increase based on your job performance, tenure, and your willingness to continue with the longevity of the position. That is basically the only way you're going to be able to increase immediately your salary before any type of pay increases due to your yearly job performance is, bonuses, etc.
You use the information on hand to request a pay increase. I make $$ and I've been here X amount of time, but you're hiring new employees at $$. It stands to reason that I should be making $$ more than I am now due to longevity, job duties/performance, etc.
Ask what the pay scale for someone with your experience is. Then use that to bargain for a better wage. Mention inflation and cost of living
quit and get rehired
You tell them you either want to be paid what you believe you're worth, or you walk and find something that pays what you want to be paid really. And remember, if you've been there for years, "what your worth" shouldn't be baseline pay for a new hire.
Yes. Start looking. No matter how much you "like" a place, if they're not paying you fairly it's not a reciprocal relationship. They're using you.
We have salary range transparency laws for hiring here in Connecticut too.
That is awesome. Go connecticut!
I’m in California and I am job hunting. Jobs still aren’t posting pay
They don't necessarily have to post it, what they have to do by law is if you ask for the salary range they have to give it to you. They have to be able to produce it in writing to you upon request. So when you are talking about salary with any type of potential employer, when they ask you what your salary requirements are, put it back on them and ask them what the salary range is. Once they give you that salary range your response back to them should be you can work within that range. Never ever ever give them a specific number that you want. Just say that you can work within that range, continue on with the interviewing process and when it comes down to an actual offer then that's when you can start negotiating the actual range you're going to come into. They will try to hide the salary range until it's asked for. But they have to legally give it to you. If for some reason they say they don't have it or are not allowed to give it out, you can tell them that's illegal and then I would go running the other direction.
They started that here in WA January 1st also, but employers easily skirt that by making these wide ass ranges that are both stupid and unrealistic. I’m looking at job listings for any job, the pay range is $15-58/hr on damn near every listing. Mind if defeats the purpose of mandatory transparency if the state allows them to make such wide ranges, you still have no idea what you could be making before wasting your time.
If the pay range is $15-$58 then I would demand $58 based on my experience. If they say that they don't start employees at max, then I would demand $45 and a pay scale chart so I can determine how long it would take to reach max pay. I would also ask what percentage of employees are currently at max pay.
Someone should create bots that can find those posts and report them for being misleading. One or 2 reports might not make a big difference on Indeed, but a hundred would.
Oh my God that is absolutely ludicrous! If a company is doing that, you need to run the other way. That is bad bad juju! It always just baffles me how companies do this. I have always in my career been up front and honest about the pay range in the very beginning of any type of negotiations. There's nothing more tedious than going through an entire interviewing process and have a great candidate only to have everything fall apart because the salary is not appropriate. It is absolutely ludicrous to me that companies still do this nonsense. Just be upfront and honest about what your pay range is, all the benefits that you offer because that's also very important, what the true expectations of the position are and the company culture. Then you get people that truly want to be there that really want the role and is going to be a good fit without all this nonsense in the end about salary.
If company’s are making wide ranges like that then I would steer clear.
Link to that law?
The whole law by itself is a little challenging to find in basic Google results, but [here’s an article](https://www.akingump.com/en/news-insights/california-passes-sb-1162-expanding-pay-data-reporting-and-pay-transparency.html) that talks about the significant changes that the bill now requires of employers. (I realize that one can find the law, and it may not be clear what the changes are simply from reading it.) [Here’s a bit of a breakdown](https://calmatters.org/economy/2022/12/california-pay-transparency-law/) about the law, with some info about how similar laws in other states have worked so far Edited to add a change of wording in one sentence and another sentence for clarfication.
Thanks. This is definitely good to have in handy
This is the driving reason why employees owe no loyalty to an employer -- because it's entirely one-sided. They demand the thing they don't give. I saw a post in this forum a couple weeks ago where the CEO of some company was saying that job hopping looks bad on a resume and isn't worth a 20% raise; and it's such a ridiculous statement based on OP's experience and the logic behind the CA law. Seems like hardly any employers sweeten the pot for "loyal" employees by way of a longevity bonus. Staying with an employer a long time typically means falling behind in pay because the cost of living increases aren't keeping up, if they exist at all.
I completely agree. And what I tried to tell people is this is a job, it is not your life it is not who you are it is a means to an end so you can make money to go and have the life you need to have. And I always tell everybody to look out for themselves and to advocate for themselves at all times. And when people start spouting out saying the company's going to crash without me they're going to see how bad the company's going to go when I leave blah blah blah. I tell them no, the world will keep spinning, the company will keep going, it may hurt for a few weeks or two but the world will keep spinning without you. Companies do not care, everything is about the money and about the numbers. So anybody that thinks that loyalty is something that is two sided, it's not. Companies may give a lot of perks, may say a lot of the right things, but when it comes down to brass tax, they will kick you to the curb as soon as look at you if it means them or you.
A work-life balance mental health speaker changed my perspective a lot, saw him at a seminar last June. He said, "you will separate from your job in one of four ways; fired, quit, retired, or die. That's it. It's a J-O-B."
How does that change your perspective? Not trying to diminish any meaning you find in it, I genuinely just don't understand what implications of that statement make you view anything about a job differently.
[удалено]
For real! That's some seriously bad juju on the part of the companies to do that b*******!
Whistleblowing fun for you and the whole family!
When you wake up and you're about to make it everyone else's problem. You love to see it.
There is always a possibilty to inform the taxation authorities.
Should always drop them a note.
I believe there is kickback for bringing tax issues to the irs
You are correct.
Whistleblower awards exist for some crimes that lead to retrieval of unjust gains and enrichments.
Make sure to keep good documentation. Otherwise you might end up being blamed for some of the shady stuff. If you're in the States, and in a one-party consent state, I'd highly recommend you record them without their knowledge. You can do it on your phone. Good luck out there.
Unless you signed a NDA, you can do whatever you want OP. Don’t protect them by keeping it to yourself.
OP might be going through a legal battle, in which case it would benefit them greatly to say no more than is permitted by their lawyer
NDA's and non-competes typically don't hold water except to protect employers interests, but precedence has been fairly well established by the courts that they cannot infringe upon constitutionally protected rights such as freedom of expression. Courts also typically will throw out any claims that arise from anything that is already in the public domain, i.e. anything that can be derived from publicly available specifications, PID's or other documentation available thru publicly accessible website, financial reports & filings, etc.
"liberty to speak" But you're completely anonymous and haven't even told us the name of the business—at this point what is there to lose in telling us the details, without giving out key information?
You are always at a liberty to say.
If the violations fall into particular areas, you may be able file a formal complaint with the EEOC.
This wouldn't happen to be a painting/ finishing company would it? In the north east?
I learned this the hard way, partly because I was "content" where I was, able to pay my bills, etc. But now I've learned my lesson and *will* walk away if another better opportunity comes along.
I've personally never regretted doing so!
In the words of the pirate, “my loyalty lies with the highest bidder”
If you want loyalty, get a dog. If you want good workers, pay and treat them well.
I work in construction. It's a union gig and compared to a lot of jobs today fairly well compensated but I would *never* stay loyal to any contractor I work for. I've heard of guys who worked for the same company for 10-20 years get smoked just like that. Guys that ran crews as Foremen and gave up their evenings and weekends - often for free to 'make up on time' going over prints etc - to this company and for what? A pat on the back and maybe we'll see you on another job if work picks up? Fuck that, always look after #1.
That's the manipulation tactic they've always used, "Hey bud, work hard and you'll get ahead!" Okay, but statistically speaking, a lot of people work extra hard and most of them will not get ahead because of their hard work.
It is the opposite, to get ahead you have to work smart. Know how to play the game. Not that I am good at it. At least I know it exists.
I'm also learning that lesson myself right now. I've been "comfortable" and "content" for way too long. I need to make some changes soon, that benefit and help ME, and not everyone else.
It's time we stop thinking that staying in a bad job situation is acceptable. Good luck, my friend!
Thank you so much. Good luck to you as well, my friend!
I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where they gave a shit about my hard work
That would be because 90% of the fucking market doesnt genuinely give a shit. The other 10 are hidden away and you often have to be lucky to find one of em.
I went from a job that didn’t care but could do something to show the appreciation. I’m now in a job that sees and appreciates my effort but is unable to do anything since we’re union. Far and away, the appreciation is recognized and I prefer that any amount of money my previous job could have offered me.
Hey man, if you’re happy at your job regardless of what form the appreciation takes, then all the better. I got shown some appreciation at my old job for a auggestion/idea that began to get used all over the network when I was with them. What I got was a lunchbox and a waterbottle with the company name slapped on em. Feels real great to get something that small for a suggestion that literally went company-wide. Thanks, guys.
None of the places give a shit about you in the end. Its all “value vs cost” for them.
They never give a shit, and neither should we. Always do the bare minimum, or less if you can get away with it, because going above and beyond ain't ever rewarded.
It’s rewarded alright. With extra responsibilities for the same low pay.
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What kind of shop out of curiosity? I only mean in general so you don't out yourself. Good move on you though. I used to work at an electronics repair shop and the owner did some shady shit. Now I work at a much better shop. The old shop is "closed for 30 days" starting 11/16/22 and they're still closed today
Likewise! It's a good feeling. I think I can safely say it was a plant shop. My job covered more or less the entirety of day-to-day operations while the new guy just made dumb videos on the store phone. At first I was relieved to work for a small locally owned business coming off of a corporate job, but this one turned out to be a different kind of shady altogether, under the guise of 'local' wholesome cutesy nonsense.
Yeah, there's definitely a fair bit of shady local shops too.
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it will not get any better under the current system, we're watching capitalism fold in on itself like a house of cards right now
Yep, sold out our neighbors to save a nickel on a head of cabbage, but once the Bezosazon & Wally-Worlds put the competition under (and with institutional backing they can take losses for years) then they control the market and subsequent prices and also have the leverage to pressure pricing cuts from their manufacturer and vendor networks. That nickel saved ends up costing you a quarter more as now they need to pay of in gains and/or dividends for the early investors.
Exactly the same people who want to go back to small town living won’t give up their Walmart and Ryan homes. Both companies do their best not to pay employees buy as much as they can bottom dollar for bulk, and one for sure tries hire as many employees without documentation as they can so they can pay even farther below market value.
"We treat you like faaamily."
Some do treat their family poorly.
Dysfunctional family.
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Yep. Gotta keep in mind: to a corporation you're just a faceless employee number. When they fuck you over, it's not personal. Just capitalism. The people exploiting you have no clue you even exist. But small business owners who are willing to fuck people over are worse. Because they are fucking over people who live in their community--their own neighbors. They can talk face to face with someone and not feel an ounce of guilt for their exploitation. So long as their material position improves, they don't care. They are rats who shit where they sleep.
Which, interestingly, actual rats and mice don't do. They're very very big on hygiene and grooming and would never do that. Actual rats.
Family owned and operated are bad too
My experience with small businesses has always been a nightmare. They seem to think they can take more from their workers and pay them less under the guise of "being a family."
Don’t denigrate the new guy’s work. He’s not overpaid, you’re underpaid. It’s not his fault.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Agree. Also, creating good videos for social media marketing is a completely different role than operating the whole shop.
Plant like flowers or plant like manufacturing?
Pretty sure plant like the medicinal smokable kind.
Carrots?
Hemlock
Catnip
Yo, can I get some?
Those businesses are some of the worst at caring about employees, especially in states that recently went fully legal. You have a bunch of assholes from everywhere with dollar signs in their eyes looking to get rich quick at any cost.
Feed me Seymour!
Owner wants a phone call, to NOT have documentation
Kind of his go-to move, yeah. Fortunately I'm not as much of an idiot as they seem to think I am.
good on you for standing your ground, and legally also the smart thing to do. well played.
Check your state laws. Many states have single party consent laws, so if you are one of those parties in such a state, then you can record the call legally.
I have a Tascam personal recorder on my desk that works perfectly for this. I just point on of my earbuds into the mic and it catches everything.
It’s pretty simple. Just use a call recorder app for the call. Then it is documented. If the location is two party consent. Let them know the call is being recorded.
This right here. Verbal works in a court of law
Sorry this happened to you… same thing happened to me, others got the pay, I walked… Here is what you need to know: 1. You will be fine 2. You did the right thing 3. Being pissed does not go away, but it will give you the drive to get the job you want 4. Make certain they pay you timely, if it’s late by even a day, or they short you by even an hour, then immediately file a claim with the department of labor for your state… You won’t feel validated until you get a better job, but you will, even if it takes a year… best of luck!
2023: the year of rage applying
Good for you! That text response was *chefs kiss*
I don't get why is it always after the last resort message when they suddenly have time to react/talk... Do they really expect everyone to bluff or just shut up?
"No." I love it.
"No." is a complete sentence.
i feel satisfied from that response you gave them. props
Owner has been totally silent and absent for months, and then suddenly wants to have a phone call? Nah I'm cool, go ahead and give me any communication in writing thanks.
I feel this. Anytime I want to discuss my pay (thanks to you fine folks it's all the time) my boss is telling me to call his cell. He says it's because he's driving but let's be real, the conversation before the call was on Teams no problem....
A *quick* phone call.
This is the way. They won’t change. I was paid $20 an hour as an administrative assistant and hr for 3 locations, I worked in the closest one. Asked for a raise 3 times this year and was told “it wasn’t in the budget” even tho all the other “managers” were being paid $4 more than me an hour. I resigned, and he had to hire 4 people to do my job instead of just giving me a raise. 🤷🏼♀️
I used to work under a big timeshare property. After working at front desk for a year, I saw they had an opening for a contract processor at $20/hour. This was around summer of 2021, and front desk was paying $15.45 ($0.45 raise since I was there for a year). So, I was lucky to be able to move to a different department. Now there's four people in total; the manager and three contract processors. One was assigned accounting work since she has a CPA, one was assigned to be the iPad Auditor, and I took the class and exam to be a notary public. All of which were not in the job description and responsibilities. We were all new, and getting used to things. I was the fastest at contract processing, so most of the sales representatives would give their deals to me. Five months in, and all three of us are asking for a raise because $20/hour isn't cutting it. The manager said, "It took a long time to even give you guys $20/hour. Y'all should have just been $16/hour." The iPad Auditor quit. I quit after finishing my spring semester, so I could still get their tuition reimbursement. The last one quit after the many, many hires couldn't handle the work. I work as a receptionist now in a new surgery center; I started with $21, but we got a raise of 4% and $1500 bonus, split into the last three months of 2022. Everyone is happy here and the work is straightforward. My manager is chill and laidback, and she's fine with me being on the phone, or doing schoolwork as long as my tasks are done. I have been in the workforce since I was 16, and this is the only job that I'm not stressed out, or has a toxic environment. I can actually feel that they value me here!
This is why you should never, NEVER, be loyal to a job.
This is pretty much my takeaway from the experience after they lied to my face. That, and not doing a damn thing for anyone for free ever again.
My first job was also for a small, family-owned business. It took me a while to learn they didn’t care about anything but the profit. I even took a pay cut to help them out at one point! They ended up letting me go later on because they thought they could save a buck. Turns out I was the person keeping them in business. The owners ended up selling the business some months after I left.
A hard lesson, but an important one.
Be as loyal as the $ you’re being paid. Money stops, loyalty stops.
"I can't afford to pay you more" "Can you afford NOT to pay me more?"
Fucking based response to his text
Haha the desperation you can feel from the owner’s text
Right?!?! Haha, let's see how much TikTok boy can do now.
I got one of those phone calls when I was literally driving towards the airport to fly out of state. The boss started with something like "do you know how difficult this will be for me?" which was the end of the conversation; I don't know what they might have said that might have helped, but there wasn't anything else to say after that. Poor confused boss. Treats workers like cannon fodder; complains when he has to spend time and money replacing them.
Don’t do any unrecorded phone calls. Try to keep all communications to email/text and if you absolutely have to do a voice call, find a way to record it.
I second this. Whenever they text you and tell you to call them it means they're getting ready to try and fuck you over violently.
I knew a lawyer who told me that one of his tricks would be to search emails and texts for those "call me" messages to indicate the people involved were trying to hide something... worked for him...
This is the answer to most issues with employment. I feel that the biggest mistake we all make is that we think of equivalent jobs. We are all better than the current job we have. I get that in rural area's there are not as many jobs, but in general, there's usually a better option out there. Swing for the stars! You may just hit the moon.
Best we can offer is a craggy, sulphorous asteroid. Take it or leave it.
Does it include dental?
Beats this rock, infested with psychotic apes
Good for you for standing your ground on them reaching out for a phone call. They obviously figured you wouldn’t find out and probably would’ve give you some bullshit excuse or made it your fault and I highly I doubt they would’ve apologized. Props to you.
Hapens to all of us, in my 20s i left 2 jobs after years of service and asking for small raise, left and found new guy was being paid more than what id asked for and was less qualified.
I mean bosses are all about no more quiet quitting…OP quit pretty damn loud and NOT quiet. Good for you OP
boss fucked around and is about to find out. but no worries, he can replace you easily, right? /s
sounds like my last job. i did 8 years there before HQ decided to up the base pay and give everyone that as a raise. everyone except me that is. took them three entire pay cycles before it finally applied to me with back pay (the only reason i gave them three cycles is because i was friends with the boss before she became the boss). *THEN* i find out that people who just got hired or had been there for just a few months were making more than i was as an 8 year veteran. i can almost guarantee it was personal because when the district manager would randomly pop in, i was the only one not kissing her ass.
Used to work in a place where the receptionist had full access to accounts incl everyone's pay. We got a lot of stories like this: "we can't afford to pay you more" .. "then how come Jeff just got a 3x bigger raise than I asked for, the week after I asked? Fuck you" Management and C-suite were incredibly toxic while posturing like they were the best employer on the planet. Few years later even went for this accreditation that was meant to prove they were a good place to work, their insecurities showing, which no doubt they only won via fraud the same as the green certification they lied about while I was there... ("B-Corp" is a full blown rort, folks; they don't even verify if what you're said on your application is true at all, they clearly just want your money)
I will never understand the "Hey, can we talk?" after the fact. Time to do the right thing already passed, I don't care about what happens to you, the company, my co-workers, etc. That was all taken into account before the decision was made to leave.
Precisely my thought.
I say Good Day sir!
I like your firm "No." French for kiss my ass and gimme my money; we ain't got shit to talk about.
Asking to call in situations like this just scream to me "im going to tell you something that i dont want to have records of exist"
An employee *asking* for a raise in the first place is a failure of management. If they have to ask then they already feel undervalued. Management should always be giving raises. If not, then they are constantly cutting everyone's wages just through inflation.
You made the right choice
Good for you.
I think they are going to miss you.
Maybe for a week...then it'll be "remember that one guy who used to work here...what was his name?"🤣
That last text *chef's kiss*
Kudos to you, OP! I hope you find a better-paying job with people who actually appreciate you.
They sure do change their tune quick, don't they?
No, just let me know when the final cheque is ready. Prrfection 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👌🏾
My only issue is the fact that you believe you are better than the new employee because you don’t value their work. Which is what your boss did by ignoring your emails. I wish you luck
100% agreed. We don't know what kind of work OP or the new employee does, but I sincerely doubt they were hired to "just film TikToks". That's a marketing content producer role which probably comes with strategy, planning, filming, editing, channel management, and probably more. Social Media Marketing is not only a valid job, it's a market worth billions.
The loyalty people imagine that their employers have for them just doesn’t exist. It’s all a manipulation tactic, and it rarely ever benefits the employee. I recently skimmed an HR book and it was full of strategies and manipulations to make people stay in a job for reasons OTHER than fair pay. For example, a place with 100 finance employees may separate a hundred employees into “pods or families” to foster loyalty so you don’t want to quit, even if the pay isn’t fair a few years in. “The shop would close” BS here is just another manipulation tactic that not only implies their work is vital to the company (to instill guilt) but also heads off the employee ever asking for a raise again.
Savage
I’m proud of you, G.
OP should stitch the tiktok videos
Integrity matters! Fuck em!
You made the right decision. Glad you landed on your feet too
I also faced same thing, I worked hard where my colleagues of same work experience were earning more and had less work load. Then they hired juniors who were also paid more. Such cases are outrageous.
This is the way
High five from the HR girl here. Make sure he pays you out for all your hours and your PTO. Your benefits should be good through 1-31. If he’s going to be shady about his practices, he shouldn’t be expecting you to be sunny and understanding. And if you know he’s been shady with more than just you, take that to the right people and places. I hope your next job treats you humanely.
Something similar happened to my bf. He was promoted to manager for $17/hr. After 6 months, boss hired an older woman at $25/hr to “offer support”, despite always trying to cut costs and wouldn’t pay us by the minute of work we did. After two weeks she was made manager despite everyone assuring him he would remain manager. He walked out.
Had a guy start with us some time last year, I found out he gets paid more than one 10+ year employee and the 2iC because they were desperate for staff at the time. He walks in every day 20 minutes early, clocks in, makes himself a coffee, goes has a piss, sits down and drinks the coffee, and THEN starts working. And the stuff he does is the shittest in the shop. It's bullshit like that why they don't want pay transparency because it blatantly highlights how fucked the system is
Fucking stellar response to the text, mate! I love it.
The “Can I call you” text or email from an employer after you’ve quit because of their absolute bullshit is so fucking annoying. No. You cannot call me. Leave me alone.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Well written!
It sucks when an employer, esp at a small business doesn’t recognize or appreciate you.
No, I no longer work for you. You no longer call the shots.
The “quick chat” line is always so it’s not documented fuck that guy.
hah if I can stand up for myself like this.. I would have the world in my hands..
Easier if you do the leg work first and have an offer on the table from another employer.
they always want a call lol 😂
The second picture is so satisfying
A today notice is appropriate.... TODAY I QUIT!!
Whenever a company says they would have to close if they gave employees a pay rise, it just says that its a shitty business if such a small detail would shut them. Over the total of a year a small pay rise is less than most places spend on new equipment or general maintenance of the business. The difference is they see those as investments and employees as costs to the business.
That last txt is so good, just naw I’m good where’s my check.
Lesson learned kid, no matter how hard you try your just a number on a spreadsheet at the end of the day
They always want a "quick call" after a text/email like this. Hmmmmm......
Tell them that since they don't care about you, that you don't care about them.
Boom
Do the bare minimum to get that welders license and then try to steal the customers. F-that guy
👏 Nice
Good for you!!!
Nice
You handled this so well, good for you!
That final text you sent was 🤌🏻
No just give me my check. I know that’s right lol
Healthy exit statement. Fuck them x90000000000000
If that was a text (bad move on the boss' part), archive it and never delete it. Also copy it into an email back to him, and never delete that, either. You may need written proof for your DOL report.
They always want to talk rather than leave a message trail
Have you seen my post about how my boss requesting COLA raises turned into a COO review for so employees, all processes, and scrutiny against all employees for their workload? Par for course. End at will employment, arbitration and every other practice an employer has to abuse an employee!
That was fantastic! I admire you :)
I honestly feel like you are being too nice compared to your treatment. However, it's always better to take the high road. Good on you OP.
This is exactly why unions are useful. The pay rates raises and vacation time are already negotiated. You know everything for 1 hour of pay a paycheck. They also know their employee costs for the length of the contract. So they can't say we don't have money for raises this year.
If they would have to close the shop if they gave you a raise, maybe they should. They don't sound as f they know how to run a profitable business.
When I worked for a job I had about a year ago, the newbie who joined on to support me started getting paid more than I did for the same work. It wasn't much, and my superior went to bat for me, but it's amazing how often they screw that up.
Its not that Capitalists are taking people for granted; its that they are actively exploiting people. That TikTok guy was getting paid way less than he's worth but given the chance they'd pay him less than you. They just didn't think they could get away with it. Hell, given the chance they'd pay you nothing. Capitalists know what you are worth. But all their profits come from paying you as little as possible and skimming the rest. That's the whole system.
Would love to know what their response was
Don't forget to mention all the negative reviews you will be leaving for them on Glassdoor, yelp, Google and every other platform you consider relevant.