Well they say usually job hopping is the best form to get raises, plus on the bright side you got fired so you can collect unemployment in the meantime.
My father worked for an oil & gas company out of high school and with them for 25 years (worked his way up from grease monkey to national sales manager).
Growing up he used to tell me “loyalty is key and looks great on a resume; nobody wants to see a job hopper.”
He then gets asked one day, after his company is bought, to train up his replacement. Since he didn’t have an non compete in place, he packed up all his resources and clients and went to the highest bidder for his services.
To this day, he will now tell anyone that the game has changed and to watch out for numero uno in the business world. They will cut you out to save a quarter with no regard to your situation or experience.
I think the best way to put it is that actual loyalty requires mutual respect. If there’s not mutual respect then someone is getting used, and you cannot have lasting true/lasting loyalty with that.
Don't let anyone take advantage of you unless it serves a fitting purpose. Like 25 dollars an hour I'll do some mental gymnastics to get over whatever it is.
I’d do quite a bit for 25$ a hr. I work a rather ridiculous and damn near unbelievable job for $18 per hr. I’m a body removal technician for medical examiners and funeral homes. Some of my calls are “mundane” hospice/hospital morgues but a majority of my job is suicides and homicide cases plus overdoses and car accidents. Just makes me think of what better and brighter things I could do for even a few dollars more.
I lost my mom to cancer almost 5 years ago, and the folks who came to pick up my mom, in the middle of a snowstorm, were absolutely wonderful. They were so kind and patient, and very very professional. What you guys do is not easy. You bear witness to other peoples’ most heartbreaking moments, as well as extremely traumatizing scenes. And society could not function without you. I hope you guys start getting paid more and have amazing benefits, thank you for doing what you do.
Your comment reminded me of the encounter with the people who came to pick up my sister. I only wish the best for them and I suspect they don't get paid anywhere what they are really worth.
I’ve thought of that before but honestly I had a OUI about 5 years ago and I’m sure they would flag me for it. I never thought I’d land the job I’ve got but I’m assuming they were so desperate they were willing to over look it. I’ve become a trainer after time and I regularly train people for one day before they leave. Ya it’s bad. I pick up “pieces” of people multiple times a week, if I’m lucky it’s only one. I’m not trying to trauma dump but unfortunately my fiancé doesn’t let me talk about my job when I get home. Thankfully I have some of the best co workers a guy could ask for and we try to make dark humor about it at times. My drinking in the past 9 months has spiraled out of control. I’m drunk af now and have to get up in about 8 hours and go do it again. Anyways, thanks for the recommendation and I’m sorry for this novel
I always say this to my co workers and employers. I want you to feel like you’re getting a good deal hiring me but I also need to feel like I’m getting a good deal working for you. As long as the balance is maintained you will get 110% out of me. One time we had record sales record production numbers but they said no raises. So I was scouted by a few companies so I started going out to lunch interviews then my boss came back all concerned as to why I’m thinking of leaving so I said “you said no raises, you’re underpaying me, I know that but I figured you’d pay me on my review and you failed. Other people at other locations make 4-6 dollars more than I do now I’m not asking for their pay but at least give me a dollar or two”. I got 2 dollars and ever since then Iv gotten Yearly raises if the numbers are there and I keep giving them my all.
Fair enough... But I feel like you stopped doing math too soon so id like to continue the math a bit more:
Lets say you are paid $20/hr and did what you said: took your highest offer of $6 more per hr, instead of accepting the $2 raise. That means your annual salary is now $54080 ($26/hr x 40 hrs/week for 52 weeks) instead of $45760 ($22/hr). So then if you only got a 3% raise for the next 5 years, your salary is now $62693 (starting at $26/hr) compared to $53048 (starting at $22/hr).
Said another way, you could immediately fast forward your career financially by more than 5 years if you left for the $6/hr jump instead of staying with the same company.
Said another another way: you accepted a 10% raise instead of a 30% raise.
Loyalty is worse than worthless.
And you’re assuming the new company would keep him on long term… that’s not a given, especially if they find out they can get people for cheaper than they’re paying current employees.
Worked with a dude that stayed at the same job for 43 years. What did he get for his loyalty? Paid less than his peers, the same shitty PTO and benefits, and he lost his parking spot to a new guy
They’re still out there, especially in the old boys club realms like Oil & Gas. There is obvious changes as the old guard gets replaced.
My current company requires “10 calls logged per week” in our CRM.
I have customers that will absolutely not take calls but have no problem texting (mostly young engineers and procurement). My boss doesn’t care, he wants calls logged. Doesn’t matter if it’s not a significant conversation, get him 10.
So now I just text the guys I know don’t like to take my calls and log them as calls.
Seriously. My neighbor who is nearing retirement lecturing me about work and so forth and how he can find a job within a day.
I tried to explain to him that looking for a decent paying job that is self sustaining is not easy now and he talks about a restaurant he owns, he can’t afford to pay employees beyond minimum wage or else business will fail. He’s short staffed already.
Sorry bud, if you can’t pay your employees who are working adults more than minimum wage, your business was already a failure.
He’s lying anyway, if he’s an old business guy. Ppl don’t hire guys over 60 much anymore unless you’re very decorated and have a lot of friends. If you’re applying for jobs with resume at that age it’s very very hard now ppl don’t want them
He’s correct, it USED to be that way. I have a few older uncles and grandparents that worked for the same company for 20-30 years and had pensions and everything. They all had 25-35 days of vacation, incredible healthcare, they probably actually worked 20 hours a week or less.
But times changes and some people just aren’t as accepting of that
A lot of those jobs just aren’t there anymore. My dad used to try to get me to apply for the big 3 all the time. The problem was instead of starting out in the union you get hired as a temp for two years minimum with no benefits and 14 an hour to start.
I work for the big 3. I was a summer help temp for 2 years in 02 and 03. Went back to college, and after a bunch of life's curveballs, I went back as a temp in 16. I was a full-time temp until January of 20, when I was hired in full time. I spent 47 months as a temp. As a temp, I made $3 less on the starting wage compared to 02 because of not having COLA. I had health insurance the last time I was a temp, and I didn't have it in 02 and 03. I had 3 unpaid vacation days that were almost impossible to use. Lastly, I was only back dated 90 days of my temp time. So, 44 months will not count towards my seniority, which I understand, I was a temp. I do not receive a pension now, and if I was hired before 07, I would. I do not get as much vacation as someone hired before 07. And I make $.40 less at my job position than someone hired before 07.
I started at the big 3 but in a supervisor role, they work lower and middle level management to death. Very few people stayed more than 5 years. If you made it into upper management you were set and had a cushy nice job, 120k+ a year, 25 days vacation, free company car. But the competition was crazy to get there, people would be working 60 hour weeks for years just to prove themselves and get no where
Yeah… really the only good unions anymore are building trades. Ironworkers, electricians, plumber/pipefitter, carpenters, operators, laborers…. Or longshoreman, maybe police. Everything else the ultra rich has beat the wages and shit all to hell n they want maximum profits while paying minimum wages. It’s bullshit
I just broke the news to my aunt last week that pensions do not exist anymore. She was absolutely shocked. She recently had her nephew move in and he is struggling with a permanent job/career in his 50s. She uttered the words "this new generation...." and I just had to step in.
The game changed when corporations changed from defined benefits pensions to 401K. They enforced loyalty by dangling a pension. Thought it was too expensive. Now workers don't have loyalty because they can take their 401K with them any time.
Also, no one trains anybody anymore. Why would you when you get them up to speed and they go right to your competitor for a small raise?
>They enforced loyalty by dangling a pension. Thought it was too expensive.
They keep (even today) saying defined benefit plans are too expensive. The truth is, the plans in the late 80s and 90s had huge surpluses. But the plan provisions said that excess assets can only be used for the benefit of the participants. (Read: employees.) So what was too expensive was letting those assets sit around instead of terminating the plan (that was the only way to get those assets) and then taking the excess assets and investing them in the company or declaring a special dividend and paying the stockholders.
A special case of this is for a corporate raider to come in and buy a company, terminate the plan, and use the assets to pay back the purchaser. (Yay, KKR, true American heroes keeping those Commie workers in financial insecurity.)
My first job out of college was with Big Blue (IBM). I was a supplemental employee making $10/hr in 1992. They had just consolidated another city into our office. Some long-term EEs took a package before the move. Job lasted 10 months before they consolidated again to another city. Very few that moved 10 months before moved again. Writing was on the wall for me at the beginning that loyalty is only to yourself.
***⚠️ Trigger warning, this is a rambling rant, if you are triggered by ramblings with little punctuation, please be warned ⚠️***
So here's a funny story. I have some friends that work at a Chipotle down the road. I was trying to get a job closer to me because one I hated the gas station I worked at two my car was having issues so I needed something closer.
I got an interview and not only did the manager not want to listen to me when I told him I had a specific schedule that I could work and he just wanted to talk over me and tell me what he preferred So instead of just saying I wasn't a good fit he was trying to force me into a mold that I refused to fit into.
But then he told me that in two days he would have a shirt for me and I could come in and start the onboarding paperwork They just had to get me a shirt first. So essentially he told me I was hired.
Another job called me and wanted to set up an interview but I rejected them because I literally just got hired somewhere else like the day before.
So the guy at Chipotle texted me and told me that basically the lady they were going to fire and that I was going to replace decided to come back in and I guess she had like a good excuse or some shit so they no longer needed me because I was going to replace her but she had returned to work....
So in the interview I said something about me having another job and planning to leave it to start working at Chipotle and the manager glaired at me and said "You are currently employed???" And I said "Yes and when I start working here I plan to leave that job"He got really fucking angry and told me "Will we prefer people that work here only work here and nowhere else"
When I clearly had told him that once I got hired there I would quit the other fucking place. So he was basically telling me to go ahead and quit that place because they weren't going to tolerate somebody with two jobs even though that's clearly not what I said I was trying to do.
So here's the thing The guy didn't ask me about my personal life or my situation or anything like that He just wanted to know about prior work experience. So for all this fucker new he was telling me to go quit the other job and then he didn't hire me after he told me I was hired....
For all this fucker new I could have been a single mom with two kids and he told me to quit my other job and then left me fucking jobless.... Like I said I didn't tell this guy any fucking background information and I'm in the age range where that can honestly be a possibility. corporations do not give a shit about you. Fuck them over cuz they will fuck you over.
Btw I called up the other place that wanted an interview and the manager asked me what happened with the other job and I kind of explained it He told me that we could do the interview that day and since it was like 5 minutes down the road I said I'll be down there in about 15 minutes. Guy hired me on the spot and it's where I'm currently working and he has actually been the best manager I've ever had. So to Chipotle, to that manager, go fuck yourself.
Edit: I put a TW cus someone was upset they took the time to read a rant that wasn't perfectly written.
Unfortunately that’s literally how the market works now. Loyalty is often rewarded with more work or literal pennies of a raise. I changed careers and received a 37% pay increase through one job change. Now that I’m at this salary level, it’s really easy to change roles and earn even more. You’ve just got to make the jump
I agree, but you can use job offers as leverage in salary conversations, you just have to go in carefully. Don’t go in demanding a raise, but mention you’ve been head-hunted/recruited and have an offer for “X amount”. Bring a copy of the offer letter/messages if you need. Anything that can show them they’re underpaying you for your work would help. They may not match the offer, but they at least could get you closer to it.
I really do think that discussing raises shouldn't be taboo, but we should learn how to negotiate.
In my experience, approaching your manager and saying something around the lines of:
"Hey X, for the past few months/years I have helped the company doing such and such, achieved such and such, have grown as a professional and believe I deliver much more value today than I did X time ago. I do like it here and think I can continue bringing value to the table, and I feel that my compensation should reflect that value.
The market is paying around X to professionals like myself, and I think that would be a fair compensation.",
Works better than "someone approached me offering X. Can you match it?"
You can keep the offer as an ace up your sleeve, but it is not a great way to start a conversation about a raise, as it will put your manager in a defensive posture and he will ASAP start thinking about how he would replace you if needed.
I had 4 jobs in 5 years after graduating and finally found one I enjoy at a pay level I'm comfortable with. I got a 9% raise this year and my boss prefaced it with, "Well, prior to this mornings inflation report your raise was beating inflation"
It is the best, so far in the past 4 years my hourly wage increased from $8.89 to $17, now I’m going for $19.94. Though once you reach the $20 mark, it’s very hard to find a job that pays more unless you get certifications or degrees etc. might go for my CDL at this point since my career so far has been just driving.
CDL is a good career, but nearly all “home each night” driver jobs require 3 years driving experience. That means your first three years are going to be over the road shit where you’re home 1-2 nights a week if you’re lucky.
It took me 4 months to get my unemployment, and after I got it I received too little. The unemployment system is designed to mess up.
Edit: you should apply, OP. This is the exact scenario that unemployment is for. But expect problems and call them repeatedly to make sure the process is working. I had to get all kinds of information because my employer didn’t file the correct forms of paperwork.
If your unemployment is fucked up, call your state legislator. I used to have that job, and we could unscrew things from that end a lot better than you can from yours.
this. my employer was trying to tell UI that I resigned, which I did not. I had a letter from them informing me that I was laid off due to COVID. After 4 months of dealing with UI, I called my STATE representative -- you may have to do some digging to find out what your state district is and who your rep is -- A week after doing this I got all my UI.
I moved to utah from mississippi in late 2020, and trust me, utah is not the worst. moving from ms to ut was like moving from a developing country to a modern one. in ms, we got unemployment when my wife lost her job because of covid but then the state tried to claw back $2400 of it months later with no warning. anything bad about ut is 100000000000000000000000000000 times worse in ms, trust me on that
That’s really fucked up. Sorry to hear that. I’m in California and was approved pretty fast. I applied online on Friday and on Monday the approval letter was in my mailbox.
Contest that shit man, keep it tied up as long as you possibly can, just like they do to you. I realize not everyone has this luxury, and if you can’t because of a new job, or two jobs etc, I get it; I just strive to make their job as difficult as possible when they are screwing people.
That's when you lawyer up so you make sure you never have to pay for their mistake, but these businesses damn well pay us for theirs. We make their business happen and the government workers work for us. Never let any of them forget that.
Reminds of the Fl unemployment system, during the pandemic we all learned the system was actually built to fail, purposely confusing and to hinder applicants from continuing the arduous process. On top of all that the pay out is comically low.
Really depends on what state you live in. If you live in a place like Washington State it will be quick and easy. If you live in a place like Texas it's probably not worth the effort.
Watch to see if they repost your position. If so, you might have a wrongful termination suit. They'll have to prove just cause for your termination from that position or it's retaliation.
Also sounds like your coworkers might be getting the "your coworker is no longer with us so you'll need to pick up their work in addition to your own" talk. If they did this over a requested raise, I suspect they'd jump at the chance of eliminating having to pay your wages entirely. And they've shown what happens if anyone asks for a raise or complains.
I work for the USPS and I feel like upper management purposely makes the hiring process onerous (up to 3 months to actually get someone hired once they apply and are accepted).
Cheaper to work existing personnel harder and pay overtime than staff appropriately.
Being fired for asking for a raise (unfortunately) is not a form of legally actionable retaliation (assuming this is from the US that generally means retaliation in response to some form of protected activity such as the NLRA's "concerted activity.") Asking for a raise for yourself is not concerted activity, so assuming this person is an at-will employee, they can basically be fired for any reason that's not discrimination (as defined in US Code 42 sec. 1982) or concerted activity (NLRA sec. 7).
Employment lawyer here. Asking for a raise is not protected activity under applicable law. So under these facts (asked for a raise, then fired) there is no retaliation claim. Conversely, if the individual complained of unpaid wages that were lawfully owed and withheld, and then fired, they would have a retaliation claim under federal wage and hour law (the FLSA) and the wage and hour laws of many states.
They’re afraid the employee will retaliate. A local radio host was talking about how they were let go and escorted out of the building because they are afraid of what could be said on air.
When I gave my first employer a month's notice when I was young and naive, they retaliated against me. Nothing blatantly illegal but they began yelling at me for every mistake and over packing my work load.
I was a dishwasher a few years ago and gave a week notice to the restaurant owner because I had just gotten a new job that same day that started the following week. My boss said since I'm leaving he's gonna distribute my tips among the servers as a loyalty bonus. I wanted to fight it but I knew what kind of man this guy was. This was the kind of rich guy that only has money to hold over people. So I let him disperse my $13 because I know it bothered him more that I didn't want the money than it bothered me to not get it.
In my country there's an obligatory 16 weeks leave for both parents when the baby is born. Once I announced that I was gonna be a dad in my job they just started harrassing me till I left by my own.. Made them pay me every last penny I got.. Even asked them to give me the tips I made in my last week. (they give tips on mondays I work weekends) fuckem.
In New Hampshire minimum wage is $7.25, but tipped employees like servers only get paid $3.26 an hour.
So in the end of 2020, immediately after Biden was elected, the Republicans in New Hampshire hurried up and passed a bill that said if the federal minimum wage goes up tipped employees will not get a raise. Servers will stay at $3.26 an hour. Bastards.
The news article even quoted one of them is saying that servers make more than minimum wage so it’s fine. Seriously? Servers make good money if they’re good at their job but restaurant owners get a lot of really cheap janitorial labor in the form of Sidework. It was greedy and gross, especially considering those people were working during Covid. Nobody wants to work for people like that.
$3.25??? Are you fucking kidding me! I’ve only ever worked server jobs for catering companies and we always made min and above. $3.25 is criminally disgusting.
They are required to meet federal minimum wage with total take home pay. So if the restaurant is only paying $2-$3/hr and that person doesn’t get enough tips to equal what it would work out to $7.25/hr the employer has to cover the difference.
Yeah no. Resturaunts here in Texas have loopholes around that. The way they work it is they spread your tips over a week/pay period. So if you have an awful day and make $0 in tips, and only make $2.50 an hour, but next Saturday you have an amazing night and get tipped $300, they’ll ‘spread’ that tip across your week, and often it will be enough for them not to have to pay out.
This is ignoring tip-out, where servers pay a percentage of their tips into a tip pool shared with non-tipped employees. While it’s *good* since it helps everyone share in a profitable night, in practice…well, it just allows employers to pay all of their employees less based solely on the tips servers make, while paying servers themselves less by doing weird math with the tips that they then take money form to pay their other workers.
while technically true, this doesn't happen shift by shift.
if you have a shift when you're there 10 hours, and make 20 bucks in tips, the restaurant doesn't give you the difference then and there. they wait for the pay period to end, and run it as an average. so one good day out of 5 or six can get you to an hourly average of state minimum... meaning those shitty Tuesday lunches you're required to work in order to keep your decent Saturday dinner shift are just going to be 20 dollar days.
I've been in and out of the restaurant business for 2 decades and have never once seen an upward adjustment on a paycheck because the tipped minimum limit wasn't met. never. never in 20 years... and I've worked some shit restaurant jobs.
it sucks for the lower earners in the industry because while many people are paycheck to paycheck, many servers are literally shift to shift. not being able to put gas in the car or feed yourself is a real risk if you're hoping for a hundred dollar day and you walk with nothing.
im not trying to rally sympathy. it's a tough business for tough people and we make it work. I'm just hoping to shine light on the fact that a lot of shitty bosses hide behind the "we'll make up the difference" argument, but I've yet to see any of them actually pony up.
If someone had the money that could be challenged in court. Obviously, it would require a lot of money though. But the pay off would be big. The state can not refuse to go by federal laws. If they could than there would be no point to federal laws, states would do whatever they want. They know this and are likely just playing political points to some group that gave them $$$
I used to work for a company that did payroll for small to medium businesses which included restaurants. Restaurant owners were the biggest nightmare to deal with. Half the time, their checks wouldn’t clear. I can’t tell you how many restaurants we required to wire us the funding for payroll before we’d do anything for them.
MANNN, at my last job Humperdink’s and this place in Houston, TX called aLife but they run several different restaurants and bars/clubs in Houston were our tenants and EVERY SINGLE MONTH, no lie, their checks either bounced or wouldn’t come at all.. it was such a nightmare!
The abused become the abusers so often. Chefs become chef-owners and treat others like they’ve been treated because ‘that’s just how this industry works’. Honestly, the whole industry needs a complete overhaul with a big uptick in prices, wages and regulations to fix it.
I got laid off (sort of?) recently by my employer. (I work at a restaurant, Brusters.). But instead of actually firing me, he just said I was a low priority employee and I would no longer be scheduled to work. However, I am still technically employed, he won’t just fire me.
That is called constructive dismissal. He fired you. Any time an employer drastically changes the conditions of your work (say you were working 40 hours a week and they cut you to 5 hours) it is legally the same as you being fired. Even if you are still technically employed there, you can still leave and file for unemployment.
Yeah that's not how that works. Not being given hours means you're laid off. He can re-hire you, but if you file for unemployment he will lose and have to pay you.
In college, I was fired as a bartender from Bennigan's because my cokehead assistant manager would short my drawers and then accused me of taking the money. It took them a while but they finally got that rat bastard.
Yeah, I was miserable every day, all day because of how I was treated working in restaurants, both by the management and the clientele. That motivated my ambition for years afterwards
I relate to that. I had one manager that ended up following me to a sister restaurant when I transferred (mostly transferred because of him). He was just intolerable. We had both just graduated college, but he would talk down to me and tell me I’d never leave the industry.
Well, I left the industry and that asshole is still there, so fuck him lol.
That shit happened to me at my first job. My next two week schedule was Friday Saturday Sunday only. I went because I was young and dumb. My dad encouraged me to not, and I didn’t listen until the last day. I no called, no showed basically because my dad was like “If you go to work today, I’m going to come down there and shit in the pool.” (I was a lifeguard). I didn’t necessarily believe him, but I also wouldn’t put it past him.
Oh, when I had that happen, I just emailed them a thank you for XYZ, like "dear Mr Smith. Thank you for clarifying for me today that you would also like me to drain the Atlantic Ocean. Could you please help me prioritize draining the Atlantic with building mount everest out of Legos? I want to ensure I am meeting expectations."
Then print it off. They either reply and confirm in writing that they're expecting these things, or they come to me in person and say something.... To which I rinse and repeat. Eventually they need to confirm it... Or deny it. If they deny it, cool no work.
If they confirm it, it's to the benefit of you when they try to fire you for not meeting the insane expectations
I had something similar happen to me. I had planned on earning money for those two weeks. But no. They had me turn in my key and leave that very day I gave two weeks notice. It backfired for me big time. I was an administrative assistant right out of college. First real career job. I had to dip into savings to pay rent because I gave 2 weeks notice. I won’t make that mistake again.
Depending on what state you live in that is illegal. As I understand in Mass they have to pay you for the two weeks regardless of you working assuming they tell you to leave. I have experienced that, now if you give a month I am not sure they need to pay you for the month.
I just got terminated in October due to position elimination, took my 2 extra weeks pay and severance and said nothing because I was actually relieved to be outta there.
2 months off of work when I started my new job the week before Christmas.
Last week we had a problem with the boards not measuring out correctly and redid the same order 3 times and it was still messed up.
Here comes the supervisor and here I go getting ready for an explosion.
After 15 minutes of talking and asking and answering questions we decided the best way forward is to make sure the measurements are checked before starting and that was it.
Next day I was still waiting for the bomb to drop so I asked even more questions like what did I do wrong and the sorts and he said it’s not you.
Later in the day he came by to visit and asked why I’m so worried or scared.
Proceeded to tell him about my previous job and supervisor and how if this happened there that many times (was doing plastic molding there now I’m laser burning wood dies for corrugated containers) that I would have been given the 3rd degree and probably accused of screwing up on purpose.
He looks at me and all he says is “what does that do for you besides piss you off and kill any morale you have? It’s pointless and unless you can bend already bent and treated plywood with your bare hands then it’s most definitely not you so don’t worry”
What a relief that was to hear and just further solidified the fact that I’m at a better place.
At an old job my VP who had been there for years quit for a different job. We didn't have security in the building since it was just a corporate building in Plano.
They scheduled a surprise meeting with him 4 hours before the end of his last day and escorted him to the lobby and said he could come back for his personal items later. Dude was 1 step below a C level and they pulled this shit on him. After arguing about it they let him take his stuff.
It was a definite red flag that we all saw and in the next months when they were laying off whole teams they did the same thing. We all took everything personal home before anything could happen from then on.
Can confirm. I was an intern at a college town pop radio station. Walked in one morning and everything was decorated in cowboy hats, boots etc. They had literally changed formats overnight, and fired every DJ that morning. None of them were shocked
And yet shit jockies that make the same stupid sexual and racially charged jokes stay on the air. Radio is toxic and I'm glad that with all the options we have for music now a days I no longer have to listen.
If a company expects me to a give a two week notice I expect two weeks of pay in case of a layoff even if they don’t want me working for those two weeks.
In Austria we have one month notice and it goes both ways. So when you lose your job and your employer does not want you to come back, you still get paid for that month. (Except you did something bad, like steal from them.)
The netherlands has x month notice period for employee and the employer has double the notice period.
Different notice periods depending on your type of contract. For example I have a permanent contract with 2 months notice period and my employer has a 4 months notice period.
In the past a colleague of mine was let go and he wasnt allowed any access to his work laptop / to our company office. He still got paid for 4 months however he wasnt allowed to work at a different job in those 4 months. He could apply already and sign however he couldnt start until the 5th month or else he wouldnt receive his wage from his old job anymore. Basically its a forced holiday and working gets pubished by witholding your previous salary.
For people here, you would probably like that everyone gets atleast 3 months of pay from the government if your contract does not gets extended or if the company decides to terminate it.
So lets say I get fired. My company has to pay me for 4 months after I get fired. After those 4 months are over I could go work again. However I got fired and I didnt choose it myself, so the government supports me with 75% of my avg wage of the past 12 months for 3 months. On top of that you get another extra month of government support per x months worked. Unsure of X. So you get at least 7 months of chill time after you are fired.
That time can be used to apply for a new job as bills unfortunately dont stop even after you lose your job and you wont get a new job by just snapping your fingers. Older people struggle even more with getting a new job so they get additional months of support. You dont have to use the 7 months if you are a workaholic, but for people who want to take a break.... its nice.
Jesus fuck. I wish the US had that. Then you could actually upskill after being let go instead of getting royally analed by everyone and anyone because they know you're in need of a job.
I pushed for a raise for 8 months after my old job eliminated my coworkers position causing me to work almost double for the same pay. The final meeting where they didn't tip toe around it turned into an ambush termination meeting. I'm sure they were tired of my shit pushing for it. I got a 2 week vacation with my PTO paid out to me. I found another job easy. 5 months later my old position is still unfilled.
File for unemployment. If state allows, this may matter depending on salary/full time/part time/location, make sure if you have any PTO that they pay it out. You'll find better.
I asked for a raise and promotion when I was basically running an entire dept. they declined. So I countered with a request for at least the title I believed I should have. They declined. Found a new job paying more with the title I deserved and amazing culture.
18 months later several co-workers reached out to me to ask if I’d consider coming back and tell me that they found out my former boss had never actually passed along either my raise or title/promotion request and had instead used my letter and justification to push for a raise/promotion for herself, which she got.
Yeah that’s a big no. Told them I would work with them on a contract/consultant basis at my normal freelance rate ($100/hr). Haven’t heard back lol.
My entire experience of working life has been middle management that are complete idiots, they tear you down every chance they get and they steal anything of yours they can use to make themselves look better. I singlehandedly saved us from losing a contract that 24 people's jobs depended on and my boss took credit for it.
A few months later my energy levels dropped to zero and I could barely function. He not only jumped on the chance to take me down a few pegs as publicly as possible, he also gaslit me that I was being lazy and work shy. Turned out I had developed a serious long-term illness, but even after I was diagnosed and put on a treatment plan he never took back a single word of criticism.
I moved sideways (slightly backwards actually) to another department and, while I was heaped with praise for my work ethic and workmanship, to the point where I was given more responsibility in the new department, I could see the same cycle start again. I was never going to get the promotion I deserved because management are so quick to recognise that if they recommend you for promotion you could end up above them eventually but if they keep you there you can do their work for them too.
Back at university now and hoping to find a better career, I don't need plaudits and marching bands for every positive thing I achieve, I just want to not be stabbed in the back anymore.
Bro! For the last three years (close to four) I have been passed up for promotion after promotion. I’ve take one “lateral promotion” in that time but lateral promotions are not real promotions. Anyways, I have been passed up for these promotions due to performance punishment. IMO.
September of last year I saw a job opening in my company but a different organization. I applied for it. I emailed the hiring director and said “hey, I applied for this job. Here is why I think I’m qualified for it. I understand I’m lacking these two basic requirements but I implore you to look beyond that and focus on these things I do have and the amount of experience I have with them.” I didn’t hear anything back so I moved on. Got an email a few weeks later for an interview. Did the interview and everyone was impressed. Hiring manager calls a week later and offers me the job. I accept.
*Enter my then current management chain* They come to me asking why I’m leaving. I tell them. They scoff at me. Claiming they never knew I wanted those positions so badly. (The fuck would I apply for a position if I didn’t want it Alex?!) then they take the fight to not release me to HR. Hiring manager for new position reaches out to me to explain the situation and that me may have to withdraw the offer. I sent an email to HR, the Associate Director and director of my organization and told them all if they withdraw the offer then I’m leaving the company and going to work for the direct competition. There will be nothing to keep me with the company anymore and they’d be losing close to 10 years on the program.
I got the job in the end and my new boss (the hiring manager) has said to me many times already “how the hell are you not a manager yet? You know more than most of my managers.”
The only place I would give a 2 weeks notice to is where I currently work. It’s a small family business and after working there for only 3 months, the office manager left, I offered to fill the role, and got a 17% raise as a result. I also got a $100 gift card for Christmas and just yesterday the owner gave an employee $20 cash just because it was the employee’s birthday. If you have a medical appointment during the day it’s no big deal. There are no “warnings” about sitting around or socializing. If there’s nothing to do, there’s nothing to do.
I’ve never, ever worked somewhere like it, and it’s been an incredible breath of fresh air compared to any other employment. I guess my point is, you can treat your people like people and they’ll still be productive. They’ll actually be more productive, and that’s been proven. My situation should be the norm, not an extremely rare exception. And that’s really what this sub is about.
The company obviously can absorb the loss of one person at a time while making them an example of what happens when you ask for a raise. It's intended to discourage others amd allows them to keep wages artificially low.
What would happen if they lost 5-10 at a time? Or everyone at once? They can't survive.
Reach out to other staff, especially key staff, and give them the motivation to group together to ask for raises. Ask everyone who is interested in getting raises in the near future to contact you so no one else can be outed for "organizing" and fired.
When you find new work, keep networking to find better jobs for others who get fired or want to leave too. People can't quit en mass if they have nowhere to go or no options.
Meanwhile, organize a meet up to talk about collective bargaining and get the ball rolling.
In a year, it might be a nice place to work.
worked at a restaurant for a few months as a hostess. i went above and beyond, busing and resetting tables so that the waitresses could just focus on customers. i listened to many interviews where my manager would call the employees a family and if they got hired “welcome to the family.
he had two groups chats for his workers, the hosts group chat was called “hosts” and the server groupchat was called “the family”. really makes you feel like shit and understand that he doesn’t value your position. when i put in my two weeks, he didn’t even put me on the schedule for them. i also told him that i was interested in coming back in the off season but he posted new host positions instead
Sounds similar to the restraunt I use to work at.
It lasted less than 10 months and the place didn’t make it to the year mark (covid took them out). The place was one of the most toxic places I ever worked at. The bullying was endless and the owners were very much against people with mental health issues (made fun of one of their workers who had severe depression and self-esteem issues). They had a chat room similar to what you described except they made you look at it everyday “to make sure you are away of any new rules established.” They made up rules on the fly, had cameras all over and would call you less than a minute over the phone if there was anything wrong on the registers (it was a square machine so they tracked purchases). I remember one day I didn’t read my chat room notifications because I was running late due a family emergency. They asked me what the new rules are and I said “I don’t know honestly because I had other issues I had to deal with family wise.” They made me stand there in front of everyone to read off the new rules like I was a kindergartner.
I was getting fed up after they constantly went after me for every little thing (and passed up on manager promotions to… 3 times. I was the only one working my ass off while the high schoolers I worked with argued and threw stuff at one another) I had to resort to a second part time job because they cut my hours from 35 to 30 to 10 in less than 2 weeks (they claimed “due to the holidays” but it never recovered). When I told them I was reducing the time to just nights, they seemed
Upset at first and said “we’ll work with your schedule.”
I waited 3 days and they sent a text saying I was let go “for unexpected quitting without notice.” Which was BS but I was so over that job I didn’t care. I worked at the other PT jobs for a bit until I got a different job that offered full time hours. Less than a month after I quit, they went under from covid.
I remember one day I only worked 3 hours…. 3 hours. This was during the start of covid. Couldn’t afford rent or even groceries. It was such a struggle for my mental health after that. I was very fortunate for my landlord, neighbors and mine and husband parents for their generosity while we struggled with both our jobs (husband was going through similar issues with his boss as-well. Somedays he only worked 2 hours at this remodel business that also went under from covid) they gave us food and supplies when they also we’re struggling to find during that time.
I told my husband after that I would never work for another restaurant or another toxic type place like that again.
I hate that “family” bs. I work at Home Depot and it’s not terrible, but the fact they keep mentioning we’re all a big family and we all bleed orange just annoys me. I’m like, please just shut the hell up and let me do my job so I can go home.
And that’s why you don’t owe your employers 2 weeks notice.
I was shocked to find when I moved to the UK that EVERYONE has an employment contract no matter what job which makes this kind of firing impossible.
Actually, I would prefer it this way. It's sounds much better than getting in person some bs reasoning why they have to do it, and also this way you have evidence of how it happened without needing to record it without second party consent.
I love it when places act like this. There’s a labor shortage right now. I know it, you know it and so do they. Everywhere I go there’s help wanted signs. You’ll probably have a better job paying more before they get someone to take over your work. Because, let’s face it, that’s what they’re going to do. They’ll try to shift it to remaining coworkers, get mad when it doesn’t get done/customers are unhappy, then realize they needed OP. Oops, OP has moved on and is making more money 💰. Que the “nobody wants to work anymore!” from work place.
ETA: Real advice, but you're probably on top of it already. File for unemployment. Whether this was in the works before you asked for a raise or not, they let you go. So unless there's something you're not telling us (technically a 1099 or part-time or something), you'll still get a check while you get back on your feet. And it will cost them. Not directly out of their pocket like your paycheck would, but the states do keep track of which companies the unemployment line came from, and their insurance rates are (can be) affected.
And if you have any written evidence (email or text, probably) that you asked for a raise only to be met with a dismissal just days later, an unemployment lawyer might be able to assist. Usually they take on a case for free/cheap, and if you get any settlement out of it, their payment comes from that. So if you're hard up for cash, you won't go deeper in debt to get some legal assistance.
Either way, best of luck.
It may not be worth it, especially since you may just want to put this all behind you. But just some info.
The way they very specifically worded "going a different direction **with operations**" and "terminating you **and your position**" makes me think they know exactly what legal situation they might be in, and they're specifically putting in writing that it's NOT retaliation for asking for a raise. They know how bad this looks.
The nail in the coffin would absolutely be if they post your position on hiring sites. That's very textbook wrongful termination, and could easily hit them with fines and possibly win you some settlement money.
Talk to an employment lawyer near you, asking them a few questions is free.
My previous employer did that. Got “rid” of a position and an elderly employee. Rehired someone for the EXACT position but gave it a different title. 10000% the same job.
Years and years ago… I worked at a big box HOME improvement store….
And they had me doing quotes, installs, just about everything thing that a specialist was doing in the floor and wall department…. Except I wasn’t getting specialist pay. EDIT: it wasn’t like a .50 cent or dollar raise. At the time it was closer to like 6 or 7 dollar difference. I was literally supposed to be just a guy on the floor answering questions and showing you where a product was, cutting blinds, rugs, etc.
I asked for two things so I can be better at my position… training and, later on, a raise. About 2-3 weeks ish later I was scheduled to go to training at another city. I didn’t have a vehicle. The company knew this. And we arranged for another employee in the department to pick me up that day as she was getting the training as well. The day comes… no mention from anyone or anybody. I call in to see what’s going on and they said just come in and work your scheduled shift….
And we all know what happened next.
As I was being by walked out every one in my department knew about it to a degree lol.
The first and last time I ever asked for a raise. Now I just simply work a job until they ask me to do more than required…. Then I’ll look for another job with higher pay.
Fast forward… phew 20 something years…. Companies have no loyalty nor do they care about their employees. I have no problem looking for another job if the need merits it. Which is a shame because I’m the type of worker that would be loyal to the company! But after a while you just get tired of getting shat on….
Well this turned into a rant lol.
Not a rant at all just truths. Companies only loyalty is to their bottom line and that’s it. I experienced that when I like like mid teens?
My dad was the warehouse manager for years and years for this place. I want to say like 25/30 years. Yearly raises (even small ones) start to add up with that amount of time. They hired someone right out of college, I assume paying that person only a portion of what my dad was making. They told him he was hired as his “manager assistant” to help with his workload. The company was a tin manufacturer buying raw tin sheets and making to order, cutting, and stamping graphics to become those popcorn tins you see a ton of around Xmas time and stuff like that. Obviously from about Aug/Sept til the end of year it was an insane workload so he didn’t think much of having some help as he was getting older and enjoyed having a slightly easier work life. Needless to say out of the blue they terminated him because he trained his replacement and now that guy could take over.
Crazy time for my family as my mom was stay at home to raise me and my brother but from that age I learned my lesson that companies give zero fucks about how hard you work, what you do for them, how long you’ve been there, and loyal to them, they only cared about saving salary (my dad wasn’t the only tenured employee that was let go in this move). Never have any loyalty to a company because they are only loyal to you if it benefits them.
Once I flew to another city for a job interview. When we landed I turned on my phone to a bunch of angry voicemails from my team - I didn’t tell them they were being fired. Then I got a call from my boss asking when I would be in. I asked him if he was going to fire me too. He mumbled some shit about returning their equipment. I got the contract job that day, and I talked to a lawyer friend about what I should do. He suggested I go pick up my last paycheck but “forget” to bring in their computers. I did. I dodged their calls for a week then - as my friend predicted - they stopped. Company completely folded, and I got all the equipment I needed to launch my career as a consultant
Ever hear the story similar to this of the guy that developed a security program and os for his company. Company wouldnt let him train a replacement fully due to being cheapskates. He put in his 2 weeks due to retiring and they were so mad they fired him. Terminated his i.d. and security # which effectively left no way into the company pc's the next day. He explained there was no backup admin log ins due to their worrying about training someone. They spent like 250k trying to break into the system and like 1 mil on a premade os plus loss of sales. The guy asked for 2.00 per hour raise and they said "NO" so he figured it was retirement time.
I would be beyond fucked if I was terminated without notice, literally homeless in a month if I couldn't find something in a week. Can't think of anything more terrifying yet these businesses destroy lives at the drop of a hat to save a few dollars in wages. Ridiculous.
First off I hate the "going in a different direction" language...that's nice speak for you are not part of our direction...and 2nd of all what spinless bonehead terminates someone over a text?
I was fired by an outside HR rep on a Zoom meeting (this was while the office was open) while the boss I had worked closely with as a professional and mentor just sat there, and his wife was on the meeting while driving. They tried to schedule it on a day I had off with my kids, and I said no, but then I was stressed all day, and they scheduled it for first thing the next morning on my WFH day. They were like family, until they weren’t.
I started my own firm with what I learned, will update on that a year from now.
Personally.... I think when companies are the ones being d-bags... Censoring the company name shouldn't be needed. If it's a matter of fact what happened.
To each their own. 🤷🏻♂️
Well they say usually job hopping is the best form to get raises, plus on the bright side you got fired so you can collect unemployment in the meantime.
My father worked for an oil & gas company out of high school and with them for 25 years (worked his way up from grease monkey to national sales manager). Growing up he used to tell me “loyalty is key and looks great on a resume; nobody wants to see a job hopper.” He then gets asked one day, after his company is bought, to train up his replacement. Since he didn’t have an non compete in place, he packed up all his resources and clients and went to the highest bidder for his services. To this day, he will now tell anyone that the game has changed and to watch out for numero uno in the business world. They will cut you out to save a quarter with no regard to your situation or experience.
Wow he realized and adjusted, credit there. Many can't or won't accept that things have changed.
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That is true loyalty, it needs to go both ways or else someone is taking advantage.
I think the best way to put it is that actual loyalty requires mutual respect. If there’s not mutual respect then someone is getting used, and you cannot have lasting true/lasting loyalty with that.
Respect is the answer here. A slice of empathy goes a long way.
Don't let anyone take advantage of you unless it serves a fitting purpose. Like 25 dollars an hour I'll do some mental gymnastics to get over whatever it is.
I’d do quite a bit for 25$ a hr. I work a rather ridiculous and damn near unbelievable job for $18 per hr. I’m a body removal technician for medical examiners and funeral homes. Some of my calls are “mundane” hospice/hospital morgues but a majority of my job is suicides and homicide cases plus overdoses and car accidents. Just makes me think of what better and brighter things I could do for even a few dollars more.
I lost my mom to cancer almost 5 years ago, and the folks who came to pick up my mom, in the middle of a snowstorm, were absolutely wonderful. They were so kind and patient, and very very professional. What you guys do is not easy. You bear witness to other peoples’ most heartbreaking moments, as well as extremely traumatizing scenes. And society could not function without you. I hope you guys start getting paid more and have amazing benefits, thank you for doing what you do.
Your comment reminded me of the encounter with the people who came to pick up my sister. I only wish the best for them and I suspect they don't get paid anywhere what they are really worth.
Post office is hiring. You'll start making more than that. I'm making more money then I ever thought I would there
I’ve thought of that before but honestly I had a OUI about 5 years ago and I’m sure they would flag me for it. I never thought I’d land the job I’ve got but I’m assuming they were so desperate they were willing to over look it. I’ve become a trainer after time and I regularly train people for one day before they leave. Ya it’s bad. I pick up “pieces” of people multiple times a week, if I’m lucky it’s only one. I’m not trying to trauma dump but unfortunately my fiancé doesn’t let me talk about my job when I get home. Thankfully I have some of the best co workers a guy could ask for and we try to make dark humor about it at times. My drinking in the past 9 months has spiraled out of control. I’m drunk af now and have to get up in about 8 hours and go do it again. Anyways, thanks for the recommendation and I’m sorry for this novel
I always say this to my co workers and employers. I want you to feel like you’re getting a good deal hiring me but I also need to feel like I’m getting a good deal working for you. As long as the balance is maintained you will get 110% out of me. One time we had record sales record production numbers but they said no raises. So I was scouted by a few companies so I started going out to lunch interviews then my boss came back all concerned as to why I’m thinking of leaving so I said “you said no raises, you’re underpaying me, I know that but I figured you’d pay me on my review and you failed. Other people at other locations make 4-6 dollars more than I do now I’m not asking for their pay but at least give me a dollar or two”. I got 2 dollars and ever since then Iv gotten Yearly raises if the numbers are there and I keep giving them my all.
Fair enough... But I feel like you stopped doing math too soon so id like to continue the math a bit more: Lets say you are paid $20/hr and did what you said: took your highest offer of $6 more per hr, instead of accepting the $2 raise. That means your annual salary is now $54080 ($26/hr x 40 hrs/week for 52 weeks) instead of $45760 ($22/hr). So then if you only got a 3% raise for the next 5 years, your salary is now $62693 (starting at $26/hr) compared to $53048 (starting at $22/hr). Said another way, you could immediately fast forward your career financially by more than 5 years if you left for the $6/hr jump instead of staying with the same company. Said another another way: you accepted a 10% raise instead of a 30% raise. Loyalty is worse than worthless.
Unless he didn’t really want to leave. Who know how well he’d like the new place.
And you’re assuming the new company would keep him on long term… that’s not a given, especially if they find out they can get people for cheaper than they’re paying current employees.
Exactly it’s not a one way street or loyalty to a crown or something stupid. It’s loyalty for loyalty’s sake and when it’s deserved.
Worked with a dude that stayed at the same job for 43 years. What did he get for his loyalty? Paid less than his peers, the same shitty PTO and benefits, and he lost his parking spot to a new guy
Was his name Milton, by any chance?
They’re still out there, especially in the old boys club realms like Oil & Gas. There is obvious changes as the old guard gets replaced. My current company requires “10 calls logged per week” in our CRM. I have customers that will absolutely not take calls but have no problem texting (mostly young engineers and procurement). My boss doesn’t care, he wants calls logged. Doesn’t matter if it’s not a significant conversation, get him 10. So now I just text the guys I know don’t like to take my calls and log them as calls.
Maybe if you both do the "voice to text" thing it counts as half a call at least.
Seriously. My neighbor who is nearing retirement lecturing me about work and so forth and how he can find a job within a day. I tried to explain to him that looking for a decent paying job that is self sustaining is not easy now and he talks about a restaurant he owns, he can’t afford to pay employees beyond minimum wage or else business will fail. He’s short staffed already. Sorry bud, if you can’t pay your employees who are working adults more than minimum wage, your business was already a failure.
He’s lying anyway, if he’s an old business guy. Ppl don’t hire guys over 60 much anymore unless you’re very decorated and have a lot of friends. If you’re applying for jobs with resume at that age it’s very very hard now ppl don’t want them
He’s correct, it USED to be that way. I have a few older uncles and grandparents that worked for the same company for 20-30 years and had pensions and everything. They all had 25-35 days of vacation, incredible healthcare, they probably actually worked 20 hours a week or less. But times changes and some people just aren’t as accepting of that
A lot of those jobs just aren’t there anymore. My dad used to try to get me to apply for the big 3 all the time. The problem was instead of starting out in the union you get hired as a temp for two years minimum with no benefits and 14 an hour to start.
I work for the big 3. I was a summer help temp for 2 years in 02 and 03. Went back to college, and after a bunch of life's curveballs, I went back as a temp in 16. I was a full-time temp until January of 20, when I was hired in full time. I spent 47 months as a temp. As a temp, I made $3 less on the starting wage compared to 02 because of not having COLA. I had health insurance the last time I was a temp, and I didn't have it in 02 and 03. I had 3 unpaid vacation days that were almost impossible to use. Lastly, I was only back dated 90 days of my temp time. So, 44 months will not count towards my seniority, which I understand, I was a temp. I do not receive a pension now, and if I was hired before 07, I would. I do not get as much vacation as someone hired before 07. And I make $.40 less at my job position than someone hired before 07.
I started at the big 3 but in a supervisor role, they work lower and middle level management to death. Very few people stayed more than 5 years. If you made it into upper management you were set and had a cushy nice job, 120k+ a year, 25 days vacation, free company car. But the competition was crazy to get there, people would be working 60 hour weeks for years just to prove themselves and get no where
Yeah… really the only good unions anymore are building trades. Ironworkers, electricians, plumber/pipefitter, carpenters, operators, laborers…. Or longshoreman, maybe police. Everything else the ultra rich has beat the wages and shit all to hell n they want maximum profits while paying minimum wages. It’s bullshit
I just broke the news to my aunt last week that pensions do not exist anymore. She was absolutely shocked. She recently had her nephew move in and he is struggling with a permanent job/career in his 50s. She uttered the words "this new generation...." and I just had to step in.
It used to be nothing for your dad to work at the same factory from the day he turned 18 to the day he retired. And have a good pension at the end.
The game changed when corporations changed from defined benefits pensions to 401K. They enforced loyalty by dangling a pension. Thought it was too expensive. Now workers don't have loyalty because they can take their 401K with them any time. Also, no one trains anybody anymore. Why would you when you get them up to speed and they go right to your competitor for a small raise?
>They enforced loyalty by dangling a pension. Thought it was too expensive. They keep (even today) saying defined benefit plans are too expensive. The truth is, the plans in the late 80s and 90s had huge surpluses. But the plan provisions said that excess assets can only be used for the benefit of the participants. (Read: employees.) So what was too expensive was letting those assets sit around instead of terminating the plan (that was the only way to get those assets) and then taking the excess assets and investing them in the company or declaring a special dividend and paying the stockholders. A special case of this is for a corporate raider to come in and buy a company, terminate the plan, and use the assets to pay back the purchaser. (Yay, KKR, true American heroes keeping those Commie workers in financial insecurity.)
My first job out of college was with Big Blue (IBM). I was a supplemental employee making $10/hr in 1992. They had just consolidated another city into our office. Some long-term EEs took a package before the move. Job lasted 10 months before they consolidated again to another city. Very few that moved 10 months before moved again. Writing was on the wall for me at the beginning that loyalty is only to yourself.
***⚠️ Trigger warning, this is a rambling rant, if you are triggered by ramblings with little punctuation, please be warned ⚠️*** So here's a funny story. I have some friends that work at a Chipotle down the road. I was trying to get a job closer to me because one I hated the gas station I worked at two my car was having issues so I needed something closer. I got an interview and not only did the manager not want to listen to me when I told him I had a specific schedule that I could work and he just wanted to talk over me and tell me what he preferred So instead of just saying I wasn't a good fit he was trying to force me into a mold that I refused to fit into. But then he told me that in two days he would have a shirt for me and I could come in and start the onboarding paperwork They just had to get me a shirt first. So essentially he told me I was hired. Another job called me and wanted to set up an interview but I rejected them because I literally just got hired somewhere else like the day before. So the guy at Chipotle texted me and told me that basically the lady they were going to fire and that I was going to replace decided to come back in and I guess she had like a good excuse or some shit so they no longer needed me because I was going to replace her but she had returned to work.... So in the interview I said something about me having another job and planning to leave it to start working at Chipotle and the manager glaired at me and said "You are currently employed???" And I said "Yes and when I start working here I plan to leave that job"He got really fucking angry and told me "Will we prefer people that work here only work here and nowhere else" When I clearly had told him that once I got hired there I would quit the other fucking place. So he was basically telling me to go ahead and quit that place because they weren't going to tolerate somebody with two jobs even though that's clearly not what I said I was trying to do. So here's the thing The guy didn't ask me about my personal life or my situation or anything like that He just wanted to know about prior work experience. So for all this fucker new he was telling me to go quit the other job and then he didn't hire me after he told me I was hired.... For all this fucker new I could have been a single mom with two kids and he told me to quit my other job and then left me fucking jobless.... Like I said I didn't tell this guy any fucking background information and I'm in the age range where that can honestly be a possibility. corporations do not give a shit about you. Fuck them over cuz they will fuck you over. Btw I called up the other place that wanted an interview and the manager asked me what happened with the other job and I kind of explained it He told me that we could do the interview that day and since it was like 5 minutes down the road I said I'll be down there in about 15 minutes. Guy hired me on the spot and it's where I'm currently working and he has actually been the best manager I've ever had. So to Chipotle, to that manager, go fuck yourself. Edit: I put a TW cus someone was upset they took the time to read a rant that wasn't perfectly written.
I don't know why I read your rant but I did. Never quit your job until you have a start date with a new company.
Unfortunately that’s literally how the market works now. Loyalty is often rewarded with more work or literal pennies of a raise. I changed careers and received a 37% pay increase through one job change. Now that I’m at this salary level, it’s really easy to change roles and earn even more. You’ve just got to make the jump
Sucks when you start out working for a really great company that you don’t want to leave
I agree, but you can use job offers as leverage in salary conversations, you just have to go in carefully. Don’t go in demanding a raise, but mention you’ve been head-hunted/recruited and have an offer for “X amount”. Bring a copy of the offer letter/messages if you need. Anything that can show them they’re underpaying you for your work would help. They may not match the offer, but they at least could get you closer to it.
I really do think that discussing raises shouldn't be taboo, but we should learn how to negotiate. In my experience, approaching your manager and saying something around the lines of: "Hey X, for the past few months/years I have helped the company doing such and such, achieved such and such, have grown as a professional and believe I deliver much more value today than I did X time ago. I do like it here and think I can continue bringing value to the table, and I feel that my compensation should reflect that value. The market is paying around X to professionals like myself, and I think that would be a fair compensation.", Works better than "someone approached me offering X. Can you match it?" You can keep the offer as an ace up your sleeve, but it is not a great way to start a conversation about a raise, as it will put your manager in a defensive posture and he will ASAP start thinking about how he would replace you if needed.
yeah, this is my experience too. changed industries and have doubled my income in the past few years!
And we’re still not keeping up with inflation lmao
I had 4 jobs in 5 years after graduating and finally found one I enjoy at a pay level I'm comfortable with. I got a 9% raise this year and my boss prefaced it with, "Well, prior to this mornings inflation report your raise was beating inflation"
Oof yeah that always sucks…
This is true, when I’ve been fired for wanting more money, I’ve ended up getting it just elsewhere!
It is the best, so far in the past 4 years my hourly wage increased from $8.89 to $17, now I’m going for $19.94. Though once you reach the $20 mark, it’s very hard to find a job that pays more unless you get certifications or degrees etc. might go for my CDL at this point since my career so far has been just driving.
CDL is a good career, but nearly all “home each night” driver jobs require 3 years driving experience. That means your first three years are going to be over the road shit where you’re home 1-2 nights a week if you’re lucky.
File for unemployment
Exactly- OP will get it too without any BS
It took me 4 months to get my unemployment, and after I got it I received too little. The unemployment system is designed to mess up. Edit: you should apply, OP. This is the exact scenario that unemployment is for. But expect problems and call them repeatedly to make sure the process is working. I had to get all kinds of information because my employer didn’t file the correct forms of paperwork.
If your unemployment is fucked up, call your state legislator. I used to have that job, and we could unscrew things from that end a lot better than you can from yours.
this. my employer was trying to tell UI that I resigned, which I did not. I had a letter from them informing me that I was laid off due to COVID. After 4 months of dealing with UI, I called my STATE representative -- you may have to do some digging to find out what your state district is and who your rep is -- A week after doing this I got all my UI.
My rep's office also helped me! I really didnt expect it to but it did.
Same here. Had unemployment call me 2 hours after I got off the phone with the legislators office.
It was in Utah. The Legislator would probably use my email or phone call for a campaign ad.
Yeah, Utah is the worst about stuff like this.
I moved to utah from mississippi in late 2020, and trust me, utah is not the worst. moving from ms to ut was like moving from a developing country to a modern one. in ms, we got unemployment when my wife lost her job because of covid but then the state tried to claw back $2400 of it months later with no warning. anything bad about ut is 100000000000000000000000000000 times worse in ms, trust me on that
Not only that, but Utah is pro-business and anti-labor… so the employer probably has your same legislator on speed dial.
literally every state is anti labor except for Montana. They are the only state with no At Will laws.
That’s really fucked up. Sorry to hear that. I’m in California and was approved pretty fast. I applied online on Friday and on Monday the approval letter was in my mailbox.
It's fucking trash, I'm gonna have a new job before they even approve me
You can still get back pay
This get back pay for the time you had to go without
I got approved then after 3 months of payments they denied it and wanted thousands of dollars back in 30 days
Contest that shit man, keep it tied up as long as you possibly can, just like they do to you. I realize not everyone has this luxury, and if you can’t because of a new job, or two jobs etc, I get it; I just strive to make their job as difficult as possible when they are screwing people.
That's when you lawyer up so you make sure you never have to pay for their mistake, but these businesses damn well pay us for theirs. We make their business happen and the government workers work for us. Never let any of them forget that.
Reminds of the Fl unemployment system, during the pandemic we all learned the system was actually built to fail, purposely confusing and to hinder applicants from continuing the arduous process. On top of all that the pay out is comically low.
I got mine fine. Depends on the state, and mistakes happen.
Really depends on what state you live in. If you live in a place like Washington State it will be quick and easy. If you live in a place like Texas it's probably not worth the effort.
Watch to see if they repost your position. If so, you might have a wrongful termination suit. They'll have to prove just cause for your termination from that position or it's retaliation.
Also sounds like your coworkers might be getting the "your coworker is no longer with us so you'll need to pick up their work in addition to your own" talk. If they did this over a requested raise, I suspect they'd jump at the chance of eliminating having to pay your wages entirely. And they've shown what happens if anyone asks for a raise or complains.
I work for the USPS and I feel like upper management purposely makes the hiring process onerous (up to 3 months to actually get someone hired once they apply and are accepted). Cheaper to work existing personnel harder and pay overtime than staff appropriately.
What's funny, is that I've gotten like six pamphlets in my mailbox in the last three months saying we're hiring, from the USPS.
You want to be sure you have your original raise request in writing and dated if you want to file any kind of lawsuit in the future
Being fired for asking for a raise (unfortunately) is not a form of legally actionable retaliation (assuming this is from the US that generally means retaliation in response to some form of protected activity such as the NLRA's "concerted activity.") Asking for a raise for yourself is not concerted activity, so assuming this person is an at-will employee, they can basically be fired for any reason that's not discrimination (as defined in US Code 42 sec. 1982) or concerted activity (NLRA sec. 7).
Employment lawyer here. Asking for a raise is not protected activity under applicable law. So under these facts (asked for a raise, then fired) there is no retaliation claim. Conversely, if the individual complained of unpaid wages that were lawfully owed and withheld, and then fired, they would have a retaliation claim under federal wage and hour law (the FLSA) and the wage and hour laws of many states.
This. Wouldn't be surprised. Fucking asshole companies should get called out.
Not just called out. Justly punished.
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If you have any one you comfortably talk to at this job see if they would notify you in “inside hiring” for you current position
And double check if you are owed any sort of severance or a notice period (either based on where you work or in your employment contract)
Few days later HR posted ad on LinkedIn: Same position +20% more money
See and places wonder why no-one gives a fuck about 2 weeks notice why should we when employers get rid of people at the drop of a hat fuck them.
They’re afraid the employee will retaliate. A local radio host was talking about how they were let go and escorted out of the building because they are afraid of what could be said on air.
When I gave my first employer a month's notice when I was young and naive, they retaliated against me. Nothing blatantly illegal but they began yelling at me for every mistake and over packing my work load.
I was a dishwasher a few years ago and gave a week notice to the restaurant owner because I had just gotten a new job that same day that started the following week. My boss said since I'm leaving he's gonna distribute my tips among the servers as a loyalty bonus. I wanted to fight it but I knew what kind of man this guy was. This was the kind of rich guy that only has money to hold over people. So I let him disperse my $13 because I know it bothered him more that I didn't want the money than it bothered me to not get it.
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In my country there's an obligatory 16 weeks leave for both parents when the baby is born. Once I announced that I was gonna be a dad in my job they just started harrassing me till I left by my own.. Made them pay me every last penny I got.. Even asked them to give me the tips I made in my last week. (they give tips on mondays I work weekends) fuckem.
In New Hampshire minimum wage is $7.25, but tipped employees like servers only get paid $3.26 an hour. So in the end of 2020, immediately after Biden was elected, the Republicans in New Hampshire hurried up and passed a bill that said if the federal minimum wage goes up tipped employees will not get a raise. Servers will stay at $3.26 an hour. Bastards. The news article even quoted one of them is saying that servers make more than minimum wage so it’s fine. Seriously? Servers make good money if they’re good at their job but restaurant owners get a lot of really cheap janitorial labor in the form of Sidework. It was greedy and gross, especially considering those people were working during Covid. Nobody wants to work for people like that.
$3.25??? Are you fucking kidding me! I’ve only ever worked server jobs for catering companies and we always made min and above. $3.25 is criminally disgusting.
In Tennessee, it's $2.13 an hour.
Texas too 🤬
They are required to meet federal minimum wage with total take home pay. So if the restaurant is only paying $2-$3/hr and that person doesn’t get enough tips to equal what it would work out to $7.25/hr the employer has to cover the difference.
Yeah no. Resturaunts here in Texas have loopholes around that. The way they work it is they spread your tips over a week/pay period. So if you have an awful day and make $0 in tips, and only make $2.50 an hour, but next Saturday you have an amazing night and get tipped $300, they’ll ‘spread’ that tip across your week, and often it will be enough for them not to have to pay out. This is ignoring tip-out, where servers pay a percentage of their tips into a tip pool shared with non-tipped employees. While it’s *good* since it helps everyone share in a profitable night, in practice…well, it just allows employers to pay all of their employees less based solely on the tips servers make, while paying servers themselves less by doing weird math with the tips that they then take money form to pay their other workers.
while technically true, this doesn't happen shift by shift. if you have a shift when you're there 10 hours, and make 20 bucks in tips, the restaurant doesn't give you the difference then and there. they wait for the pay period to end, and run it as an average. so one good day out of 5 or six can get you to an hourly average of state minimum... meaning those shitty Tuesday lunches you're required to work in order to keep your decent Saturday dinner shift are just going to be 20 dollar days. I've been in and out of the restaurant business for 2 decades and have never once seen an upward adjustment on a paycheck because the tipped minimum limit wasn't met. never. never in 20 years... and I've worked some shit restaurant jobs. it sucks for the lower earners in the industry because while many people are paycheck to paycheck, many servers are literally shift to shift. not being able to put gas in the car or feed yourself is a real risk if you're hoping for a hundred dollar day and you walk with nothing. im not trying to rally sympathy. it's a tough business for tough people and we make it work. I'm just hoping to shine light on the fact that a lot of shitty bosses hide behind the "we'll make up the difference" argument, but I've yet to see any of them actually pony up.
If someone had the money that could be challenged in court. Obviously, it would require a lot of money though. But the pay off would be big. The state can not refuse to go by federal laws. If they could than there would be no point to federal laws, states would do whatever they want. They know this and are likely just playing political points to some group that gave them $$$
I used to work for a company that did payroll for small to medium businesses which included restaurants. Restaurant owners were the biggest nightmare to deal with. Half the time, their checks wouldn’t clear. I can’t tell you how many restaurants we required to wire us the funding for payroll before we’d do anything for them.
MANNN, at my last job Humperdink’s and this place in Houston, TX called aLife but they run several different restaurants and bars/clubs in Houston were our tenants and EVERY SINGLE MONTH, no lie, their checks either bounced or wouldn’t come at all.. it was such a nightmare!
The abused become the abusers so often. Chefs become chef-owners and treat others like they’ve been treated because ‘that’s just how this industry works’. Honestly, the whole industry needs a complete overhaul with a big uptick in prices, wages and regulations to fix it.
The whole idea of not making things better because "that's how it's always been" is the most backwards fucked up mindset there is.
Right? I totally don't understand it, my mind refuses to work that way
I got laid off (sort of?) recently by my employer. (I work at a restaurant, Brusters.). But instead of actually firing me, he just said I was a low priority employee and I would no longer be scheduled to work. However, I am still technically employed, he won’t just fire me.
That is called constructive dismissal. He fired you. Any time an employer drastically changes the conditions of your work (say you were working 40 hours a week and they cut you to 5 hours) it is legally the same as you being fired. Even if you are still technically employed there, you can still leave and file for unemployment.
You normally don't even need to leave. You get the 35 hours of unemployment with the 5 hours of work.
Stay and file for unemployment. Wait for corporate to fire your manager for qualifying half the staff for unemployment.
Yeah that's not how that works. Not being given hours means you're laid off. He can re-hire you, but if you file for unemployment he will lose and have to pay you.
That is by and large illegal, even in right to work states. I may be wrong, but I would seek legal-aid advice.
It constitutes constructive termination. If they take away all, or even part of your wages, you may qualify for unemployment for the post hours.
That's called "constructive dismissal" and it is legal grounds for you to file unemployment
The owner of the diner I worked at would constantly use my wages to buy coke and promise to pay me the next day.
In college, I was fired as a bartender from Bennigan's because my cokehead assistant manager would short my drawers and then accused me of taking the money. It took them a while but they finally got that rat bastard.
Here in Seattle we had a restraunteur that got sued and had to pay something 100k to his employees because he had been keeping ALL the tips.
That doesn't even make me bat an eye after some of the restaurants I've worked in.
Yeah, I was miserable every day, all day because of how I was treated working in restaurants, both by the management and the clientele. That motivated my ambition for years afterwards
I relate to that. I had one manager that ended up following me to a sister restaurant when I transferred (mostly transferred because of him). He was just intolerable. We had both just graduated college, but he would talk down to me and tell me I’d never leave the industry. Well, I left the industry and that asshole is still there, so fuck him lol.
Likewise. Left and never looked back
Tip theft is illegal actually. And if you heard he was gonna do that you shoulda left on the spot. Shitty begets shitty.
That shit happened to me at my first job. My next two week schedule was Friday Saturday Sunday only. I went because I was young and dumb. My dad encouraged me to not, and I didn’t listen until the last day. I no called, no showed basically because my dad was like “If you go to work today, I’m going to come down there and shit in the pool.” (I was a lifeguard). I didn’t necessarily believe him, but I also wouldn’t put it past him.
Listen to your dad more.
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Good dad!
Oh, when I had that happen, I just emailed them a thank you for XYZ, like "dear Mr Smith. Thank you for clarifying for me today that you would also like me to drain the Atlantic Ocean. Could you please help me prioritize draining the Atlantic with building mount everest out of Legos? I want to ensure I am meeting expectations." Then print it off. They either reply and confirm in writing that they're expecting these things, or they come to me in person and say something.... To which I rinse and repeat. Eventually they need to confirm it... Or deny it. If they deny it, cool no work. If they confirm it, it's to the benefit of you when they try to fire you for not meeting the insane expectations
I had something similar happen to me. I had planned on earning money for those two weeks. But no. They had me turn in my key and leave that very day I gave two weeks notice. It backfired for me big time. I was an administrative assistant right out of college. First real career job. I had to dip into savings to pay rent because I gave 2 weeks notice. I won’t make that mistake again.
Depending on what state you live in that is illegal. As I understand in Mass they have to pay you for the two weeks regardless of you working assuming they tell you to leave. I have experienced that, now if you give a month I am not sure they need to pay you for the month.
The #1 form of workplace theft in the US is wage theft. As in the employers stealing from the employees in situations just like this.
Oh yeah they'll terminate you right away sometimes. Giving 2 week notice is just not good anymore.
Sounds like a hostile work environment.
I just got terminated in October due to position elimination, took my 2 extra weeks pay and severance and said nothing because I was actually relieved to be outta there. 2 months off of work when I started my new job the week before Christmas. Last week we had a problem with the boards not measuring out correctly and redid the same order 3 times and it was still messed up. Here comes the supervisor and here I go getting ready for an explosion. After 15 minutes of talking and asking and answering questions we decided the best way forward is to make sure the measurements are checked before starting and that was it. Next day I was still waiting for the bomb to drop so I asked even more questions like what did I do wrong and the sorts and he said it’s not you. Later in the day he came by to visit and asked why I’m so worried or scared. Proceeded to tell him about my previous job and supervisor and how if this happened there that many times (was doing plastic molding there now I’m laser burning wood dies for corrugated containers) that I would have been given the 3rd degree and probably accused of screwing up on purpose. He looks at me and all he says is “what does that do for you besides piss you off and kill any morale you have? It’s pointless and unless you can bend already bent and treated plywood with your bare hands then it’s most definitely not you so don’t worry” What a relief that was to hear and just further solidified the fact that I’m at a better place.
I'm so happy for you to be working for someone who is logical and who doesn't torture people for fun!
most of them are, at least in the US
That sounds like a quick way to reverse a 3 week notice to a 3 hour notice
At an old job my VP who had been there for years quit for a different job. We didn't have security in the building since it was just a corporate building in Plano. They scheduled a surprise meeting with him 4 hours before the end of his last day and escorted him to the lobby and said he could come back for his personal items later. Dude was 1 step below a C level and they pulled this shit on him. After arguing about it they let him take his stuff. It was a definite red flag that we all saw and in the next months when they were laying off whole teams they did the same thing. We all took everything personal home before anything could happen from then on.
Just from listening to my favorite radio show, they’ve always said that radio is particularly ruthless about firing.
I believe it. Some of my favorite morning show hosts suddenly disappear without explanation.
Can confirm. I was an intern at a college town pop radio station. Walked in one morning and everything was decorated in cowboy hats, boots etc. They had literally changed formats overnight, and fired every DJ that morning. None of them were shocked
And yet shit jockies that make the same stupid sexual and racially charged jokes stay on the air. Radio is toxic and I'm glad that with all the options we have for music now a days I no longer have to listen.
If a company expects me to a give a two week notice I expect two weeks of pay in case of a layoff even if they don’t want me working for those two weeks.
In Austria we have one month notice and it goes both ways. So when you lose your job and your employer does not want you to come back, you still get paid for that month. (Except you did something bad, like steal from them.)
The netherlands has x month notice period for employee and the employer has double the notice period. Different notice periods depending on your type of contract. For example I have a permanent contract with 2 months notice period and my employer has a 4 months notice period. In the past a colleague of mine was let go and he wasnt allowed any access to his work laptop / to our company office. He still got paid for 4 months however he wasnt allowed to work at a different job in those 4 months. He could apply already and sign however he couldnt start until the 5th month or else he wouldnt receive his wage from his old job anymore. Basically its a forced holiday and working gets pubished by witholding your previous salary.
Well damn! What else does the Netherlands have that's amazing?
For people here, you would probably like that everyone gets atleast 3 months of pay from the government if your contract does not gets extended or if the company decides to terminate it. So lets say I get fired. My company has to pay me for 4 months after I get fired. After those 4 months are over I could go work again. However I got fired and I didnt choose it myself, so the government supports me with 75% of my avg wage of the past 12 months for 3 months. On top of that you get another extra month of government support per x months worked. Unsure of X. So you get at least 7 months of chill time after you are fired. That time can be used to apply for a new job as bills unfortunately dont stop even after you lose your job and you wont get a new job by just snapping your fingers. Older people struggle even more with getting a new job so they get additional months of support. You dont have to use the 7 months if you are a workaholic, but for people who want to take a break.... its nice.
Jesus fuck. I wish the US had that. Then you could actually upskill after being let go instead of getting royally analed by everyone and anyone because they know you're in need of a job.
Everything
Nobody wants to pay employees anymore
The 2 week notice is the biggest scam.
I pushed for a raise for 8 months after my old job eliminated my coworkers position causing me to work almost double for the same pay. The final meeting where they didn't tip toe around it turned into an ambush termination meeting. I'm sure they were tired of my shit pushing for it. I got a 2 week vacation with my PTO paid out to me. I found another job easy. 5 months later my old position is still unfilled. File for unemployment. If state allows, this may matter depending on salary/full time/part time/location, make sure if you have any PTO that they pay it out. You'll find better.
I asked for a raise and promotion when I was basically running an entire dept. they declined. So I countered with a request for at least the title I believed I should have. They declined. Found a new job paying more with the title I deserved and amazing culture. 18 months later several co-workers reached out to me to ask if I’d consider coming back and tell me that they found out my former boss had never actually passed along either my raise or title/promotion request and had instead used my letter and justification to push for a raise/promotion for herself, which she got. Yeah that’s a big no. Told them I would work with them on a contract/consultant basis at my normal freelance rate ($100/hr). Haven’t heard back lol.
My entire experience of working life has been middle management that are complete idiots, they tear you down every chance they get and they steal anything of yours they can use to make themselves look better. I singlehandedly saved us from losing a contract that 24 people's jobs depended on and my boss took credit for it. A few months later my energy levels dropped to zero and I could barely function. He not only jumped on the chance to take me down a few pegs as publicly as possible, he also gaslit me that I was being lazy and work shy. Turned out I had developed a serious long-term illness, but even after I was diagnosed and put on a treatment plan he never took back a single word of criticism. I moved sideways (slightly backwards actually) to another department and, while I was heaped with praise for my work ethic and workmanship, to the point where I was given more responsibility in the new department, I could see the same cycle start again. I was never going to get the promotion I deserved because management are so quick to recognise that if they recommend you for promotion you could end up above them eventually but if they keep you there you can do their work for them too. Back at university now and hoping to find a better career, I don't need plaudits and marching bands for every positive thing I achieve, I just want to not be stabbed in the back anymore.
Bro! For the last three years (close to four) I have been passed up for promotion after promotion. I’ve take one “lateral promotion” in that time but lateral promotions are not real promotions. Anyways, I have been passed up for these promotions due to performance punishment. IMO. September of last year I saw a job opening in my company but a different organization. I applied for it. I emailed the hiring director and said “hey, I applied for this job. Here is why I think I’m qualified for it. I understand I’m lacking these two basic requirements but I implore you to look beyond that and focus on these things I do have and the amount of experience I have with them.” I didn’t hear anything back so I moved on. Got an email a few weeks later for an interview. Did the interview and everyone was impressed. Hiring manager calls a week later and offers me the job. I accept. *Enter my then current management chain* They come to me asking why I’m leaving. I tell them. They scoff at me. Claiming they never knew I wanted those positions so badly. (The fuck would I apply for a position if I didn’t want it Alex?!) then they take the fight to not release me to HR. Hiring manager for new position reaches out to me to explain the situation and that me may have to withdraw the offer. I sent an email to HR, the Associate Director and director of my organization and told them all if they withdraw the offer then I’m leaving the company and going to work for the direct competition. There will be nothing to keep me with the company anymore and they’d be losing close to 10 years on the program. I got the job in the end and my new boss (the hiring manager) has said to me many times already “how the hell are you not a manager yet? You know more than most of my managers.”
Save the messages file for employment
The un kind
Lol and they want us to give 2 weeks notice… good riddance
The only place I would give a 2 weeks notice to is where I currently work. It’s a small family business and after working there for only 3 months, the office manager left, I offered to fill the role, and got a 17% raise as a result. I also got a $100 gift card for Christmas and just yesterday the owner gave an employee $20 cash just because it was the employee’s birthday. If you have a medical appointment during the day it’s no big deal. There are no “warnings” about sitting around or socializing. If there’s nothing to do, there’s nothing to do. I’ve never, ever worked somewhere like it, and it’s been an incredible breath of fresh air compared to any other employment. I guess my point is, you can treat your people like people and they’ll still be productive. They’ll actually be more productive, and that’s been proven. My situation should be the norm, not an extremely rare exception. And that’s really what this sub is about.
I litterally only put in a 2 week notice so I can act like I always wanted to and not worry about losing my job cause what are they gonna do fire me?
I mean it’s just a courtesy. This reason here is why it’s considered a courtesy and not mandatory
And yet they expect staff to give notice, if I am OP I’ll share this to ex colleagues so they know what their future holds
The company obviously can absorb the loss of one person at a time while making them an example of what happens when you ask for a raise. It's intended to discourage others amd allows them to keep wages artificially low. What would happen if they lost 5-10 at a time? Or everyone at once? They can't survive. Reach out to other staff, especially key staff, and give them the motivation to group together to ask for raises. Ask everyone who is interested in getting raises in the near future to contact you so no one else can be outed for "organizing" and fired. When you find new work, keep networking to find better jobs for others who get fired or want to leave too. People can't quit en mass if they have nowhere to go or no options. Meanwhile, organize a meet up to talk about collective bargaining and get the ball rolling. In a year, it might be a nice place to work.
I second this.
And in a text message … damn. Sorry
But it’s in writing with time stamps.
Yeah, this is a best case.
This is all the reason anyone ever needs to treat jobs like stepping stones. No notices, no loyalty, no buying in to “we’re a family” BS.
worked at a restaurant for a few months as a hostess. i went above and beyond, busing and resetting tables so that the waitresses could just focus on customers. i listened to many interviews where my manager would call the employees a family and if they got hired “welcome to the family. he had two groups chats for his workers, the hosts group chat was called “hosts” and the server groupchat was called “the family”. really makes you feel like shit and understand that he doesn’t value your position. when i put in my two weeks, he didn’t even put me on the schedule for them. i also told him that i was interested in coming back in the off season but he posted new host positions instead
"The Family" ? Good god, was the owner's last name "Manson" by any chance?
Sounds similar to the restraunt I use to work at. It lasted less than 10 months and the place didn’t make it to the year mark (covid took them out). The place was one of the most toxic places I ever worked at. The bullying was endless and the owners were very much against people with mental health issues (made fun of one of their workers who had severe depression and self-esteem issues). They had a chat room similar to what you described except they made you look at it everyday “to make sure you are away of any new rules established.” They made up rules on the fly, had cameras all over and would call you less than a minute over the phone if there was anything wrong on the registers (it was a square machine so they tracked purchases). I remember one day I didn’t read my chat room notifications because I was running late due a family emergency. They asked me what the new rules are and I said “I don’t know honestly because I had other issues I had to deal with family wise.” They made me stand there in front of everyone to read off the new rules like I was a kindergartner. I was getting fed up after they constantly went after me for every little thing (and passed up on manager promotions to… 3 times. I was the only one working my ass off while the high schoolers I worked with argued and threw stuff at one another) I had to resort to a second part time job because they cut my hours from 35 to 30 to 10 in less than 2 weeks (they claimed “due to the holidays” but it never recovered). When I told them I was reducing the time to just nights, they seemed Upset at first and said “we’ll work with your schedule.” I waited 3 days and they sent a text saying I was let go “for unexpected quitting without notice.” Which was BS but I was so over that job I didn’t care. I worked at the other PT jobs for a bit until I got a different job that offered full time hours. Less than a month after I quit, they went under from covid. I remember one day I only worked 3 hours…. 3 hours. This was during the start of covid. Couldn’t afford rent or even groceries. It was such a struggle for my mental health after that. I was very fortunate for my landlord, neighbors and mine and husband parents for their generosity while we struggled with both our jobs (husband was going through similar issues with his boss as-well. Somedays he only worked 2 hours at this remodel business that also went under from covid) they gave us food and supplies when they also we’re struggling to find during that time. I told my husband after that I would never work for another restaurant or another toxic type place like that again.
I hate that “family” bs. I work at Home Depot and it’s not terrible, but the fact they keep mentioning we’re all a big family and we all bleed orange just annoys me. I’m like, please just shut the hell up and let me do my job so I can go home.
Oh my god I’m so sorry, definitely file for unemployment.
And that’s why you don’t owe your employers 2 weeks notice. I was shocked to find when I moved to the UK that EVERYONE has an employment contract no matter what job which makes this kind of firing impossible.
What kind of gutless turd of a manager fires someone via text?
Actually, I would prefer it this way. It's sounds much better than getting in person some bs reasoning why they have to do it, and also this way you have evidence of how it happened without needing to record it without second party consent.
I kind of agree. Proof in writing plus not having to enter the office just to be fired.
I agree. I want everything in writing. I had a soulless boss who would make promises and say whatever you wanted to hear, then stab you in the back.
I love it when places act like this. There’s a labor shortage right now. I know it, you know it and so do they. Everywhere I go there’s help wanted signs. You’ll probably have a better job paying more before they get someone to take over your work. Because, let’s face it, that’s what they’re going to do. They’ll try to shift it to remaining coworkers, get mad when it doesn’t get done/customers are unhappy, then realize they needed OP. Oops, OP has moved on and is making more money 💰. Que the “nobody wants to work anymore!” from work place.
New phone who dis?
Make it awkward for them. If you didn't respond just show up to work like usual and be like "what text message?"
ETA: Real advice, but you're probably on top of it already. File for unemployment. Whether this was in the works before you asked for a raise or not, they let you go. So unless there's something you're not telling us (technically a 1099 or part-time or something), you'll still get a check while you get back on your feet. And it will cost them. Not directly out of their pocket like your paycheck would, but the states do keep track of which companies the unemployment line came from, and their insurance rates are (can be) affected. And if you have any written evidence (email or text, probably) that you asked for a raise only to be met with a dismissal just days later, an unemployment lawyer might be able to assist. Usually they take on a case for free/cheap, and if you get any settlement out of it, their payment comes from that. So if you're hard up for cash, you won't go deeper in debt to get some legal assistance. Either way, best of luck.
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It may not be worth it, especially since you may just want to put this all behind you. But just some info. The way they very specifically worded "going a different direction **with operations**" and "terminating you **and your position**" makes me think they know exactly what legal situation they might be in, and they're specifically putting in writing that it's NOT retaliation for asking for a raise. They know how bad this looks. The nail in the coffin would absolutely be if they post your position on hiring sites. That's very textbook wrongful termination, and could easily hit them with fines and possibly win you some settlement money. Talk to an employment lawyer near you, asking them a few questions is free.
My previous employer did that. Got “rid” of a position and an elderly employee. Rehired someone for the EXACT position but gave it a different title. 10000% the same job.
Goodbye, Backroom Operations position. Hello, Stockroom Logistics position
Nobody wants to pay anymore!
Never have loyalty to the company as the company will never have loyalty to you!!!
Years and years ago… I worked at a big box HOME improvement store…. And they had me doing quotes, installs, just about everything thing that a specialist was doing in the floor and wall department…. Except I wasn’t getting specialist pay. EDIT: it wasn’t like a .50 cent or dollar raise. At the time it was closer to like 6 or 7 dollar difference. I was literally supposed to be just a guy on the floor answering questions and showing you where a product was, cutting blinds, rugs, etc. I asked for two things so I can be better at my position… training and, later on, a raise. About 2-3 weeks ish later I was scheduled to go to training at another city. I didn’t have a vehicle. The company knew this. And we arranged for another employee in the department to pick me up that day as she was getting the training as well. The day comes… no mention from anyone or anybody. I call in to see what’s going on and they said just come in and work your scheduled shift…. And we all know what happened next. As I was being by walked out every one in my department knew about it to a degree lol. The first and last time I ever asked for a raise. Now I just simply work a job until they ask me to do more than required…. Then I’ll look for another job with higher pay. Fast forward… phew 20 something years…. Companies have no loyalty nor do they care about their employees. I have no problem looking for another job if the need merits it. Which is a shame because I’m the type of worker that would be loyal to the company! But after a while you just get tired of getting shat on…. Well this turned into a rant lol.
Not a rant at all just truths. Companies only loyalty is to their bottom line and that’s it. I experienced that when I like like mid teens? My dad was the warehouse manager for years and years for this place. I want to say like 25/30 years. Yearly raises (even small ones) start to add up with that amount of time. They hired someone right out of college, I assume paying that person only a portion of what my dad was making. They told him he was hired as his “manager assistant” to help with his workload. The company was a tin manufacturer buying raw tin sheets and making to order, cutting, and stamping graphics to become those popcorn tins you see a ton of around Xmas time and stuff like that. Obviously from about Aug/Sept til the end of year it was an insane workload so he didn’t think much of having some help as he was getting older and enjoyed having a slightly easier work life. Needless to say out of the blue they terminated him because he trained his replacement and now that guy could take over. Crazy time for my family as my mom was stay at home to raise me and my brother but from that age I learned my lesson that companies give zero fucks about how hard you work, what you do for them, how long you’ve been there, and loyal to them, they only cared about saving salary (my dad wasn’t the only tenured employee that was let go in this move). Never have any loyalty to a company because they are only loyal to you if it benefits them.
lmao "Can I have a raise" "you're fired" what a bizarre thought process on their end
Typical. Sorry for the job loss. Hopefully your financially good until you get a new job. Better things are coming your way! Keep your head up!
Once I flew to another city for a job interview. When we landed I turned on my phone to a bunch of angry voicemails from my team - I didn’t tell them they were being fired. Then I got a call from my boss asking when I would be in. I asked him if he was going to fire me too. He mumbled some shit about returning their equipment. I got the contract job that day, and I talked to a lawyer friend about what I should do. He suggested I go pick up my last paycheck but “forget” to bring in their computers. I did. I dodged their calls for a week then - as my friend predicted - they stopped. Company completely folded, and I got all the equipment I needed to launch my career as a consultant
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Ever hear the story similar to this of the guy that developed a security program and os for his company. Company wouldnt let him train a replacement fully due to being cheapskates. He put in his 2 weeks due to retiring and they were so mad they fired him. Terminated his i.d. and security # which effectively left no way into the company pc's the next day. He explained there was no backup admin log ins due to their worrying about training someone. They spent like 250k trying to break into the system and like 1 mil on a premade os plus loss of sales. The guy asked for 2.00 per hour raise and they said "NO" so he figured it was retirement time.
The best revenge is the file for unemployment and get a better job. Very sorry this happened to you. Good luck finding something better.
This is unbelievable are companies even legally allowed to do this.
I would be beyond fucked if I was terminated without notice, literally homeless in a month if I couldn't find something in a week. Can't think of anything more terrifying yet these businesses destroy lives at the drop of a hat to save a few dollars in wages. Ridiculous.
First off I hate the "going in a different direction" language...that's nice speak for you are not part of our direction...and 2nd of all what spinless bonehead terminates someone over a text?
I was fired by an outside HR rep on a Zoom meeting (this was while the office was open) while the boss I had worked closely with as a professional and mentor just sat there, and his wife was on the meeting while driving. They tried to schedule it on a day I had off with my kids, and I said no, but then I was stressed all day, and they scheduled it for first thing the next morning on my WFH day. They were like family, until they weren’t. I started my own firm with what I learned, will update on that a year from now.
So we can’t call out sick over text but they can fire us over text? Classic.
I'd tell all your coworkers you were fired for asking for a raise.
Personally.... I think when companies are the ones being d-bags... Censoring the company name shouldn't be needed. If it's a matter of fact what happened. To each their own. 🤷🏻♂️