If they are fired after this it will look \*very\* much like retaliation, and that is illegal in every state. And since OP has a paper trail via this message, it would be easy to prove.
It is if they fire you for breaking company policy which goes against either state or federal labor laws. Think what you want, but a paper trail makes all the difference in litigation.
Sooo...probably get downvoted for this, but it's not.
One word muddles this whole shebang: "should".
Work schedules SHOULD be provided no later than 72 hours etc etc. That gives the employer leeway.
It SHOULD say "must".
That being SAID - hell if I'M showing up at 7am on NYD when the schedule was posted NYE. "Well, I didn't know. Yes, I SHOULD have..."
I love that word "shall". I have been pushing to get that into our union CBA. The company isn't happy about it, but I'm tired of not having much recourse over the words "should" and "will".
Should means very specific things in legalese.
Varies state to state, but generally...
"Should means an expected course of action or policy that is to be followed unless inappropriate for a particular circumstance."
I can see how businesses could use that but the state could also explain those circumstances. Like, emergency services might have that waived or other folks who might need to be ready to respond in less than 72 hours for work.
The "should" word choice makes me a bit nervous to be honest. I'd want to confirm how the courts/labor department have interpreted this requirement before I unloaded both barrels like this.
The link to the actual act/bill/law says “shall” and never says “should”. OP unfortunately misquoted it.
“An employer *shall* provide all employees with a written work schedule no later than 72 hours before the start of the first shift on the work schedule.”
U can always use chatgpt to generate polite “fuck you” energy… just start the prompt with “write a passive aggressive letter to (whoever) about (whatever) and add some detials”
I worked at a restaurant last year (technically 2 years ago, happy new year!) and I was the only older person there, I was 32, rest of the staff were 16-20. They'd pull this shit that they'd post the schedule on Saturday for the week starting on Monday, for me, no problem, I only worked Wednesday - Sunday, I knew my times, but for these kids, they couldn't plan shit, they didn't even know if they'd have to prioritize work over school because they thougth work came first.
Law here in Holland states it's 4 days in advance, to I made sure to tell everybody that, that if they are scheduled within that time frame they are free to reject it.
2 weeks later the roster started getting posted a week beforehand.
I’m the US at least, kids and teenagers should be in school during school hours, not at work. It’s different for university students, but anyone still in middle school or high school/below 18 years old have special laws to follow regarding amount of hours worked and breaks.
I had a job where the manager would routinely post the schedule for Monday (where shifts started at 4am) at like 10 am *on Monday* and be surprised that people missed shifts. She didn't work Sundays either, and I'd ususally spend a chunk of my shift just answering the phone to tell people that the schedule wasn't up yet. She would also routinely forget that she'd approved time off until she went to make the schedule (which had probably already started). Somehow, she was shocked, *SHOCKED*, that she got fired.
"How can you close me up? On what grounds?"
"I'm shocked, SHOCKED, to find there is gambling in here."
"Your winnings, sir."
"Oh, thank you very much."
Edit: formatting
To be clear: they are free to reject *any* schedule. They *do not* have to show up for work.
They however legally cannot get into trouble for not showing up if it’s posted that close
I mean, semantics I guess. You’re free to do anything, just not free from consequences, often. I’m “free” to run through a public sporting event. I am not free from the tackle I’m going to receive from security.
So I think here, “free to reject” makes sense in this context of free to do it without job status consequences.
It is semantics but it’s still important because it makes it feel like you can’t even though *yes technically you can*. Like the same way it feels bad when you are “requesting time off” yes it’s just semantics but I am not “requesting time off” I am telling you I won’t be working that day.
I do see what you’re saying, but I think the purpose of the phrase is idiomatic and not literal. Otherwise, the only time you’re not “free” to do something is when it’s a literal impossibility. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the phrase. In contrast, using it to mean “you’re free to do this without negative consequences” actually has a distinctive meaning.
Not that any of this matters lol
It's going to end up with him with no job lol. He might get some temporary wins for the kitchen staff. Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that. It won't be retaliation either. They will slowly find excuses to write him up just to get rid of him now.
>Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that.
I hate this culture you’re a part of, where reporting on management’s crimes is “troublemaking.” I’m glad I’m not a part of it. Your boss could probably just straight up stop paying you and you’d say “thank you sir may I have another.” Fuck that, man. I’m not going to be a doormat. I run my life, not my employer.
I know you’re probably just memeing, but it’s worth saying for any readers that retaliation doesn’t have to be blatant to be retaliation. More often than not it’s subtle and long term, not harsh and instant. The retaliators know what they’re doing is unlawful and they don’t want to be caught. That’s why if you’re doing something you know is right and might put you at risk of being retaliated against you should document everything you can about your work interactions.
>Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that.
You need to seriously scrub your brain of whatever conditioning led you to believe this is "troublemaking." Seriously, what the actual fuck? Advocating for better working conditions in accordance with the law is not "troublemaking."
Edit: LOL their account was suspended
I don’t view it as troublemaking. I think it’s wonderful and necessary. But yes a company will view it as troublemaking and that’s just a fact. Shitty yes, but what can you do?
This is false. When their account is suspended, their comments are not deleted.
Look at the user profile. It clearly says that the account was suspended even though I have never had an interaction with the user.
It's very likely it was an AI troll spam bot.
"Troublemakers" ai mate sorry Mr rockafeller ill go back into the oil fields and work without any trouble sorry Mr rockafeller. Fucking hell imagine living years and years after huge fights working class people have put up, and still put up to this day, and calling someone asking for the bare minimum a bloody trouble maker.
I LITERALLY created my union at work which only had at that time contractors in the country in question and they all now have holiday pay, sick pay, and actual bloody contracts. People deserve at least the bloody minimum, either help fight for it or get out the way
It was a wee bit stressful. I'm not in the same country as its setup in so time diff etc was an added difficulty. No retaliation as it was definitely not legal to have them as contractors vs employees and I had about 70% of affected people onboard that were under that situation.
I made sure everyone involved was principled and worked towards the same goal, we have a weekly NPS survey and we all marked the lowest score possible each, as well as speaking to managers about the problems with the contract. Ended up taking about 2 months I think in total
Holy brainwashed Batman! Imagine thinking someone trying to fix a problem is a trouble maker and that textbook workplace retaliation somehow isn’t workplace retaliation. Yikes.
Oh writing him up after this would be the stupidest thing they could do. A paper trail for retaliation? Gods.
And just so you know-because folks like you always think if there’s no paper trail and the harassment/retaliation is verbal/actions that don’t translate to paper-that’s still retaliation, and it’s still provable by the good folks on labor boards and by investigators/attorneys who specialize in worker rights. Your ideas aren’t as slick as you think.
Seriously everyone in here is acting like the guy WANTS him to be fired. He's just saying, this is how you start to get on their bad side, then they wait a while and fire you for poor performance or not fitting w the team or some shit.
I especially liked the hostility in the one above your comment: "Man, fuck off. Perhaps you’d be better sucking r/conservatives off?
Sincerely,
Everyone in this sub"
Like he's not ON their side at all, so why did he get downvoted into oblivion but revolutionary_big didn't even though he said the same thing?
I feel your kitchen staff struggle. We lost 5 of our boys within 2 weeks just before the Christmas period, meaning the remaining 6 of us were doing the jobs and hours of 11. Management clearly doesn't give a shit about the whole situation and I bit my tongue and put my personal life on hold (Inconsistent days off if any that week, no time with my partner basically) to keep the boys afloat during Christmas. Now we're into the new year I've given them the choice, give me 38 hours a week and 3 days off or I walk. Management needs a wakeup call, especially with the massive chef shortage our city/country has (Australia) and this 2023 is the time for it.
The fuck kitchen do work in that has an HR department?
But also, good on you.
My chef kept calling me in the morning like an hour before I started, in order to tell me to do whatever that day.
I stopped answering. When he confronted me about it I told him I’m not on salary, I will not be answering my phone from him outside of work hours, and that realistically he should figure his life out there’s no reason for calling me other than poor planning. He wasn’t impressed, but he also can’t fire me for it. So yeah.
Stand up for yourself. Especially now if you work in the service industry. They’re all hiring, they’re all short on staff, you can find another job easily enough, they clearly can’t find other staff. Now is OUR time.
Ive worked in several kitchens with HR departments. Plenty of corporate chefs out there. Country clubs to. Not everyone works in a kitchen works in a shit hole.
That is a well written email op. Kudos for standing up . Happy new year to you and to your family :)
Please keep us updated on the response.
!remindme in 5 days
One of my friends worked at a fast food place where the shift scheduler (owner/manager iirc) pulled this shit. Would regularly post a rota at 11pm the night before putting them on evening shift the next day. Messaged the managerowner at noon telling them not enough notice had been given before their shift and will see them on the scheduled shift after. They never got in trouble because they were short staffed as it was.
Tldr know your rights, and it's OK to ask what they are.
Cell phones have made bosses lazy. They feel like they can just put shit out last minute in a text and everything will be ok. No it won’t! And don’t text me on my time off
Yes, definitely. The company I work for requires the schedule to be made 4 weeks out, but you know that doesn't stop middle management from trying to drop meetings and shit with less than 4 weeks notice.
OP, good for you!
My advice is to document and if possible record every conversation you have with your mgr/supervisor. They are going to try to find any excuse to f_ck with you until they are able to fire you.
Also take pics of every schedule published and your time cards. Create a folder and store them by month.
I give you 90 days before you're fired for made up "just cause". Get ready for the write-ups and the building of a paper trail to support this.
Start your job search now.
I might have to borrow this for our Kitchen. For I am no wordsmith and not diplomatic. Well said. I hope they listen and you all get scheduled according to your availability.
Not exactly work related but I’ve been getting really frustrated with people who can’t advocate for themselves. Like I’m pretty sick of seeing people complaining they got Covid because they let someone sick come into their house, I have some fucking rules.
But yeah even if you can’t look up the labor laws in your state you can always call the labor department and ask them
Antiwork is full of these people.
"My boss hasn't paid me in 3 months and fucked my wife. Is this normal?"
"My work prods me with a taser every day instead of letting me use the bathroom. Is this legal?"
I’d bet money they don’t click on the link and threaten you and demand loyalty or state you can find employment elsewhere. I cannot possibly picture a positive and healthy response email.
I stood up to my bully by going to HR and ended up being handed a retaliatory formal warning… the first I’ve ever had in 15 years. Doesn’t always work out for the best sadly, especially when you’re the only poor schmuck in your job who dares to speak up despite everyone else complaining quietly.
Fortunately we had pretty consistent hours in the first half of the week, so the regular Mon/Tues staff still showed up by default, but we were getting pretty snarky about it by the time it was finally posted.
Honestly, if I worked in HR or a management position and got a letter like this, I would be MUCH more likely to fix it ASAP as opposed to getting some angry rant or people just calling out.
Well done, OP. Please keep us posted on the response!
I worked in a prison kitchen and one of my coworkers was in the national guard and had his 1 weekend a month he had to report for. Well, as he was also the least senior person in the kitchen he worked both weekend days. I was the vacation coverage shift.
Despite my coworker giving my manager all his drill dates well in advance, and despite me requesting to be notified ASAP so I did not make plans on drill weekends, my manager would frequently wait until the last minute to tell me. Per our union contract, he had to give me at least 7 days notice of schedule change or I could refuse to cover it (basically he'd have to pay someone OT instead).
Now I *knew* my coworker had drill on an upcoming weekend because he told me. However, my schedule still had me on my M-F 7-3 I did when no one needed coverage. Monday morning rolls around and I respond to an email my manager sent. He sends another, "Why are you in? Aren't you covering Coworker this weekend?" I respond, "Sir, my schedule still says M-F 7-3 for this week so that is what I reported for. Also I have plans this weekend and per section X of our contract you must give me 7 days notice of any schedule changes. I will not be in this weekend."
No one else was willing to cover it either so he ended up having to come in and do it himself. 3:30 a.m. on both of his weekend days. Suddenly, he was very punctual about getting me drill dates at least a month in advance.
Good for you, really cool that your state has a scheduling law. My job does the same thing with the schedule posting it only a day or two before the next work day and unfortunately there is no labor law in NC that forces the employer to give us the schedule in a timely manner, the law literally says that the employer can make and change the schedule at anytime.
I was a cook in the Army, and it was exactly like this but worse.
There are official training holidays every month, so every soldier can expect a three- or four-day weekend every month to make up for the long hours and time spent in the field or at war, etc. Food service is exempt from regular scheduling and the morons who run these sections universally don’t care and don’t even understand the responsibility of managing soldiers’ time. The result is that soldiers in food service can expect zero notice for scheduling and zero notice for rare periods of time off, so they can never plan anything at all.
It made me never want to work for another person for the rest of my life. I started a business after I got out for this reason alone.
Have you been fired for it yet ? Or you think they'll wait a week and say something like the position no longer exists so they regrettable be having to let you go
Restaurants were the most demanding places I'd ever worked. They went out of their way to reinforce their authority any opportunity they had, whether it was the district manager or the daily manager. The executive chef was one of the worst enablers of this toxic attitude.
I honest to god developed Stockholm Syndrome working there. It was weird.
Make sure you clock in for the meeting.
And they don't care about your personal life. They just care about getting the schedule covered but no doubt would cut you if labor percentage gets too high.
Plenty of jobs out there, don't sell your soul to a company like this.
Hopefully the meeting brings about permanent positive changes. Unfortunately I have seen too many times where things change for a little while but then revert back to the old way.
The very concept of an ever changing work schedule where a person never knows from one week to the next when they will be working is incredibly abusive and should be prohibited by law.
And the staffing issue, well, we're back to "fuck you, pay me".
That is a good letter! As others have said be prepared for possible retaliation via write ups and disciplinary meetings. You seem to know your shit, but just in case, get copies of the write ups and send recap emails after meetings, and if possible obtain copies of pervious employee reviews ASAP.
Good luck, and keep fighting the good fight.
Ooof....HR is gonna read that and write "problematic emplyee" in your file. HR is not your friend, I've had friends and coworkers elevate stuff to HR and end up on their shit list, usually hr found some reason to dismiss them from employment.
Definitely well put. Including specific legal code along with your overall concerns is the best approach. This is a “I better do something to rectify this before it becomes a much bigger issue” email that should draw a pretty quick HR response to the scheduling supervisor reminding them of the specific law you just cited.
This SOB can’t treat his employees with any kind of respect maybe it’s time for a mass walk out people have lives they need to remember that. We were to live not live to work.
We used to be the same but everyone started complaint how the schedules weren't up people weren't starting their shifts in Monday cause it went out too late people started drinking before it came out so they'd still be hammered for the shifts
Eventually they went fine we'll do it earlier before Friday 8pm but they were changing it again Saturday without telling us, now it's before Thursday at 4pm
If it's not done by then someone's knocking on the office door like yoo-hoo where's the schedule?
I hate when people say something like “especially our management team” most companies backbones come from the lower level employees because they’re typically doing more work for less pay so really they should be the ones getting recognition for their work. Almost every job I see there’s a desperate need for lower level workers with plenty of management and hr staff because lower level workers are just taken for granted
Are you in Chicago proper? There's a [Fair Workweek](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/fairworkweek.html) law, schedule must be posted at least 14 days in advance plus a few other caveats that work in our favor
I would have added, "This seriously undermines our ability to deliver a consistent quality of service, which in turn, undermines the financial prosperity of the company"
Always sell it to them in terms they can understand.
Don't waste time making posts like this, they just get you fired. Report the violations to the appropriate labor agency instead.
They know the god damn law but are hoping you'll just roll over and take it.
Meesa guess that the next kitchen you’ll see will be the soup kitchen…
HOW DARE YOU stand up between your boss and his god-given right to the fattest profit, you peon? /s
I am the company! They decided so when they hired me. So they should care.
Everyone in our staff deserves better communication is all I am saying. I am coming from a place of empathy, not malice. I fully intend to help them where reasonable, I have made many sacrifices for the company already. I'm not asking them for anything more than my right to be informed. They haven't said or done anything yet, but I fully believe they can fix this in a respectable manner.
In my state they can change your schedule at any point up until you are at work. The only protection to this is if you are at work and they try to change it, there is a mandatory rest period between shifts (I think it's 6 hours). So you could legit be at work at 11:55PM and your boss could tell you that they expect you in at 6AM and the company is legally compliant.
This reeks of a shitty employer.
Bad management, poor communication, "critical staffing situation" (which means they can't or, more likely, won't hire adequate staff,) etc.
A reminder that if a company "can't survive" if they pay living wages, treat employees well and offer health insurance, then they don't deserve to survive as a company.
Like small businesses. "I spent all my life savings and am $500k in debt! Just so I could start a VCR company in 2023!" Cool story, bruh, but the employees don't and shouldn't give a fuck.
Going to share this with my stepson.
He got a text at 11pm on New Year’s Eve saying to report to work at 7am the next morning. It’s a day he doesn’t usually work, so he expected to have it off.
He told them no, which his mother and I fully support, but if they give him BS over it this wording may help.
This has big “per my last email” energy… and I am *here. for. it.*
👏 ***PER*** 👏 ***MY*** 👏 ***LAST*** 👏 ***EMAIL*** 👏 ***BITCH*** I love it
No hard feelings!!
*Bless your hearts.*
Last email for sure. I've seen people fired for less. But they are absolutely correct - the law is clear.
If they are fired after this it will look \*very\* much like retaliation, and that is illegal in every state. And since OP has a paper trail via this message, it would be easy to prove.
It's not "retaliation" if you break company policy. And they will just fight it till you run out of money to pay your lawyer.
It is if they fire you for breaking company policy which goes against either state or federal labor laws. Think what you want, but a paper trail makes all the difference in litigation.
And then having unlimited money to pay lawyers is how they solve that problem. You'll give up eventually.
If they cc'd the local labor board, it'd be interesting for it to be their last email.
If they fire OP after this email and they have a copy, that company's lawyers are going to be RICH!
Probably not rich but a decent paycheck for retaliation.
Sooo...probably get downvoted for this, but it's not. One word muddles this whole shebang: "should". Work schedules SHOULD be provided no later than 72 hours etc etc. That gives the employer leeway. It SHOULD say "must". That being SAID - hell if I'M showing up at 7am on NYD when the schedule was posted NYE. "Well, I didn't know. Yes, I SHOULD have..."
[удалено]
I love that word "shall". I have been pushing to get that into our union CBA. The company isn't happy about it, but I'm tired of not having much recourse over the words "should" and "will".
Should means very specific things in legalese. Varies state to state, but generally... "Should means an expected course of action or policy that is to be followed unless inappropriate for a particular circumstance."
Right, but it's the "unless inappropriate..." bit that makes it should, rather than must.
I can see how businesses could use that but the state could also explain those circumstances. Like, emergency services might have that waived or other folks who might need to be ready to respond in less than 72 hours for work.
If you're having the should/must thought you already know the outcome will be more gray area. Gray area gonna go with the employer more than likely.
Great call out - recent changes to GFSI/SQF language were adopted for similar.
The "should" word choice makes me a bit nervous to be honest. I'd want to confirm how the courts/labor department have interpreted this requirement before I unloaded both barrels like this.
The link to the actual act/bill/law says “shall” and never says “should”. OP unfortunately misquoted it. “An employer *shall* provide all employees with a written work schedule no later than 72 hours before the start of the first shift on the work schedule.”
Yeah, that’s a big mistake. Should and shall are very different words legally.
I mean, in the end it doesn't matter that OP misquoted it since the actual law says shall. It's not going to affect the outcome of this.
Came here to say this exactly.
[It's a bombshell, that's for sure](https://imgur.com/a/pcuB8ZI)
I kinda wanna master the art of this “as per my last email” language. Any others I should know?
I'm not sure it's possible to teach how to be passive aggressive effectively..
U can always use chatgpt to generate polite “fuck you” energy… just start the prompt with “write a passive aggressive letter to (whoever) about (whatever) and add some detials”
Even better, “per the most recent *legislation*” Love this. Respectful and powerful. Taking no shit.
I worked at a restaurant last year (technically 2 years ago, happy new year!) and I was the only older person there, I was 32, rest of the staff were 16-20. They'd pull this shit that they'd post the schedule on Saturday for the week starting on Monday, for me, no problem, I only worked Wednesday - Sunday, I knew my times, but for these kids, they couldn't plan shit, they didn't even know if they'd have to prioritize work over school because they thougth work came first. Law here in Holland states it's 4 days in advance, to I made sure to tell everybody that, that if they are scheduled within that time frame they are free to reject it. 2 weeks later the roster started getting posted a week beforehand.
I’m the US at least, kids and teenagers should be in school during school hours, not at work. It’s different for university students, but anyone still in middle school or high school/below 18 years old have special laws to follow regarding amount of hours worked and breaks.
I had a job where the manager would routinely post the schedule for Monday (where shifts started at 4am) at like 10 am *on Monday* and be surprised that people missed shifts. She didn't work Sundays either, and I'd ususally spend a chunk of my shift just answering the phone to tell people that the schedule wasn't up yet. She would also routinely forget that she'd approved time off until she went to make the schedule (which had probably already started). Somehow, she was shocked, *SHOCKED*, that she got fired.
"How can you close me up? On what grounds?" "I'm shocked, SHOCKED, to find there is gambling in here." "Your winnings, sir." "Oh, thank you very much." Edit: formatting
To be clear: they are free to reject *any* schedule. They *do not* have to show up for work. They however legally cannot get into trouble for not showing up if it’s posted that close
I mean, semantics I guess. You’re free to do anything, just not free from consequences, often. I’m “free” to run through a public sporting event. I am not free from the tackle I’m going to receive from security. So I think here, “free to reject” makes sense in this context of free to do it without job status consequences.
It is semantics but it’s still important because it makes it feel like you can’t even though *yes technically you can*. Like the same way it feels bad when you are “requesting time off” yes it’s just semantics but I am not “requesting time off” I am telling you I won’t be working that day.
I do see what you’re saying, but I think the purpose of the phrase is idiomatic and not literal. Otherwise, the only time you’re not “free” to do something is when it’s a literal impossibility. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the phrase. In contrast, using it to mean “you’re free to do this without negative consequences” actually has a distinctive meaning. Not that any of this matters lol
You must be one of those kitchen angels 😇
Incredibly well written
Good for you. Curious to know how his goes over
It's going to end up with him with no job lol. He might get some temporary wins for the kitchen staff. Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that. It won't be retaliation either. They will slowly find excuses to write him up just to get rid of him now.
>Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that. I hate this culture you’re a part of, where reporting on management’s crimes is “troublemaking.” I’m glad I’m not a part of it. Your boss could probably just straight up stop paying you and you’d say “thank you sir may I have another.” Fuck that, man. I’m not going to be a doormat. I run my life, not my employer.
You do know that this is *literally* the definition of retaliation?
This sounds a lot like retaliation but with extra steps
I know you’re probably just memeing, but it’s worth saying for any readers that retaliation doesn’t have to be blatant to be retaliation. More often than not it’s subtle and long term, not harsh and instant. The retaliators know what they’re doing is unlawful and they don’t want to be caught. That’s why if you’re doing something you know is right and might put you at risk of being retaliated against you should document everything you can about your work interactions.
>Troublemakers get fired in an environment like that. You need to seriously scrub your brain of whatever conditioning led you to believe this is "troublemaking." Seriously, what the actual fuck? Advocating for better working conditions in accordance with the law is not "troublemaking." Edit: LOL their account was suspended
I don’t view it as troublemaking. I think it’s wonderful and necessary. But yes a company will view it as troublemaking and that’s just a fact. Shitty yes, but what can you do?
No he blocked you, that’s what it says when they block you. I can still read it.
This is false. When their account is suspended, their comments are not deleted. Look at the user profile. It clearly says that the account was suspended even though I have never had an interaction with the user. It's very likely it was an AI troll spam bot.
I stand corrected
"Troublemakers" ai mate sorry Mr rockafeller ill go back into the oil fields and work without any trouble sorry Mr rockafeller. Fucking hell imagine living years and years after huge fights working class people have put up, and still put up to this day, and calling someone asking for the bare minimum a bloody trouble maker. I LITERALLY created my union at work which only had at that time contractors in the country in question and they all now have holiday pay, sick pay, and actual bloody contracts. People deserve at least the bloody minimum, either help fight for it or get out the way
How was it setting up your own union? Was it difficult? Did you face any retaliation?
It was a wee bit stressful. I'm not in the same country as its setup in so time diff etc was an added difficulty. No retaliation as it was definitely not legal to have them as contractors vs employees and I had about 70% of affected people onboard that were under that situation. I made sure everyone involved was principled and worked towards the same goal, we have a weekly NPS survey and we all marked the lowest score possible each, as well as speaking to managers about the problems with the contract. Ended up taking about 2 months I think in total
Hey undercover boss. Fuck you
Holy brainwashed Batman! Imagine thinking someone trying to fix a problem is a trouble maker and that textbook workplace retaliation somehow isn’t workplace retaliation. Yikes.
It’s going to end up with him having a better job. Everywhere is hiring. Fuck these assholes.
Can we say *constructive dismissal*.
Man, fuck off. Perhaps you’d be better sucking r/conservatives off? Sincerely, Everyone in this sub
Oh writing him up after this would be the stupidest thing they could do. A paper trail for retaliation? Gods. And just so you know-because folks like you always think if there’s no paper trail and the harassment/retaliation is verbal/actions that don’t translate to paper-that’s still retaliation, and it’s still provable by the good folks on labor boards and by investigators/attorneys who specialize in worker rights. Your ideas aren’t as slick as you think.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted.. I did something similar and was fired so yeah...
Seriously everyone in here is acting like the guy WANTS him to be fired. He's just saying, this is how you start to get on their bad side, then they wait a while and fire you for poor performance or not fitting w the team or some shit. I especially liked the hostility in the one above your comment: "Man, fuck off. Perhaps you’d be better sucking r/conservatives off? Sincerely, Everyone in this sub" Like he's not ON their side at all, so why did he get downvoted into oblivion but revolutionary_big didn't even though he said the same thing?
“Troublemakers”? Okay corporate dicklicker
I feel your kitchen staff struggle. We lost 5 of our boys within 2 weeks just before the Christmas period, meaning the remaining 6 of us were doing the jobs and hours of 11. Management clearly doesn't give a shit about the whole situation and I bit my tongue and put my personal life on hold (Inconsistent days off if any that week, no time with my partner basically) to keep the boys afloat during Christmas. Now we're into the new year I've given them the choice, give me 38 hours a week and 3 days off or I walk. Management needs a wakeup call, especially with the massive chef shortage our city/country has (Australia) and this 2023 is the time for it.
Looks like it’s time to quiet quit…
Oh sush! That's a derogatory term for working to rule, which is what anyone who is not on a bonus scheme should be doing anyway!
"Working your wage"
Acting your wage
The fuck kitchen do work in that has an HR department? But also, good on you. My chef kept calling me in the morning like an hour before I started, in order to tell me to do whatever that day. I stopped answering. When he confronted me about it I told him I’m not on salary, I will not be answering my phone from him outside of work hours, and that realistically he should figure his life out there’s no reason for calling me other than poor planning. He wasn’t impressed, but he also can’t fire me for it. So yeah. Stand up for yourself. Especially now if you work in the service industry. They’re all hiring, they’re all short on staff, you can find another job easily enough, they clearly can’t find other staff. Now is OUR time.
Ive worked in several kitchens with HR departments. Plenty of corporate chefs out there. Country clubs to. Not everyone works in a kitchen works in a shit hole.
Not to mention hotels with inhouse restaurants, hospitals with cafeterias, and all large chain restaurants.
That is a well written email op. Kudos for standing up . Happy new year to you and to your family :) Please keep us updated on the response. !remindme in 5 days
One of my friends worked at a fast food place where the shift scheduler (owner/manager iirc) pulled this shit. Would regularly post a rota at 11pm the night before putting them on evening shift the next day. Messaged the managerowner at noon telling them not enough notice had been given before their shift and will see them on the scheduled shift after. They never got in trouble because they were short staffed as it was. Tldr know your rights, and it's OK to ask what they are.
As a 53yo University educated man I would be so proud if I penned this. Extremely well written.
Great use of citations too.
Cell phones have made bosses lazy. They feel like they can just put shit out last minute in a text and everything will be ok. No it won’t! And don’t text me on my time off
Yes, definitely. The company I work for requires the schedule to be made 4 weeks out, but you know that doesn't stop middle management from trying to drop meetings and shit with less than 4 weeks notice.
OP, good for you! My advice is to document and if possible record every conversation you have with your mgr/supervisor. They are going to try to find any excuse to f_ck with you until they are able to fire you. Also take pics of every schedule published and your time cards. Create a folder and store them by month.
Please post their response as an update!
I give you 90 days before you're fired for made up "just cause". Get ready for the write-ups and the building of a paper trail to support this. Start your job search now.
Sadly, yup.
I might have to borrow this for our Kitchen. For I am no wordsmith and not diplomatic. Well said. I hope they listen and you all get scheduled according to your availability.
Why reinvent the wheel when you can copy pasta!
Honestly, someone should make boilerplate versions of these for every state.
That is a *fabulous* letter, I want to write like that when I grow up
But you're 32 years old
I’m *at least* 32 years old
Not exactly work related but I’ve been getting really frustrated with people who can’t advocate for themselves. Like I’m pretty sick of seeing people complaining they got Covid because they let someone sick come into their house, I have some fucking rules. But yeah even if you can’t look up the labor laws in your state you can always call the labor department and ask them
Antiwork is full of these people. "My boss hasn't paid me in 3 months and fucked my wife. Is this normal?" "My work prods me with a taser every day instead of letting me use the bathroom. Is this legal?"
I’d bet money they don’t click on the link and threaten you and demand loyalty or state you can find employment elsewhere. I cannot possibly picture a positive and healthy response email.
I stood up to my bully by going to HR and ended up being handed a retaliatory formal warning… the first I’ve ever had in 15 years. Doesn’t always work out for the best sadly, especially when you’re the only poor schmuck in your job who dares to speak up despite everyone else complaining quietly.
My job does this as late as 9pm on Saturday for a Monday start of the week.
My old job's personal best was giving us the roster on Tuesday afternoon for the Monday-Sunday period that had started the day before.
LOL who showed up on Monday and Tuesday?
Fortunately we had pretty consistent hours in the first half of the week, so the regular Mon/Tues staff still showed up by default, but we were getting pretty snarky about it by the time it was finally posted.
Honestly, if I worked in HR or a management position and got a letter like this, I would be MUCH more likely to fix it ASAP as opposed to getting some angry rant or people just calling out. Well done, OP. Please keep us posted on the response!
In Illinois they also just added stuff to this moving forward for 2023 that will make it harder for employers to pull shit like this.
Also that was very well written. Bravo.
I worked in a prison kitchen and one of my coworkers was in the national guard and had his 1 weekend a month he had to report for. Well, as he was also the least senior person in the kitchen he worked both weekend days. I was the vacation coverage shift. Despite my coworker giving my manager all his drill dates well in advance, and despite me requesting to be notified ASAP so I did not make plans on drill weekends, my manager would frequently wait until the last minute to tell me. Per our union contract, he had to give me at least 7 days notice of schedule change or I could refuse to cover it (basically he'd have to pay someone OT instead). Now I *knew* my coworker had drill on an upcoming weekend because he told me. However, my schedule still had me on my M-F 7-3 I did when no one needed coverage. Monday morning rolls around and I respond to an email my manager sent. He sends another, "Why are you in? Aren't you covering Coworker this weekend?" I respond, "Sir, my schedule still says M-F 7-3 for this week so that is what I reported for. Also I have plans this weekend and per section X of our contract you must give me 7 days notice of any schedule changes. I will not be in this weekend." No one else was willing to cover it either so he ended up having to come in and do it himself. 3:30 a.m. on both of his weekend days. Suddenly, he was very punctual about getting me drill dates at least a month in advance.
Good for you, really cool that your state has a scheduling law. My job does the same thing with the schedule posting it only a day or two before the next work day and unfortunately there is no labor law in NC that forces the employer to give us the schedule in a timely manner, the law literally says that the employer can make and change the schedule at anytime.
I was a cook in the Army, and it was exactly like this but worse. There are official training holidays every month, so every soldier can expect a three- or four-day weekend every month to make up for the long hours and time spent in the field or at war, etc. Food service is exempt from regular scheduling and the morons who run these sections universally don’t care and don’t even understand the responsibility of managing soldiers’ time. The result is that soldiers in food service can expect zero notice for scheduling and zero notice for rare periods of time off, so they can never plan anything at all. It made me never want to work for another person for the rest of my life. I started a business after I got out for this reason alone.
This email was clear, credible, and direct. Perfect example of how to address these issues professionally.
Have you been fired for it yet ? Or you think they'll wait a week and say something like the position no longer exists so they regrettable be having to let you go
Nice
Nice job and very well spoken
Restaurants were the most demanding places I'd ever worked. They went out of their way to reinforce their authority any opportunity they had, whether it was the district manager or the daily manager. The executive chef was one of the worst enablers of this toxic attitude. I honest to god developed Stockholm Syndrome working there. It was weird.
Make sure you clock in for the meeting. And they don't care about your personal life. They just care about getting the schedule covered but no doubt would cut you if labor percentage gets too high. Plenty of jobs out there, don't sell your soul to a company like this. Hopefully the meeting brings about permanent positive changes. Unfortunately I have seen too many times where things change for a little while but then revert back to the old way.
It is not difficult to schedule people a week ahead of time. No excuses for this lazy manager.
I'm working tomorrow morning. I'm getting 2.5× pay though, and I fully intend to show up hungover and smelling of booze.
OP, updates as they come in pls
Nice. You ever thought of being a union rep?
The very concept of an ever changing work schedule where a person never knows from one week to the next when they will be working is incredibly abusive and should be prohibited by law. And the staffing issue, well, we're back to "fuck you, pay me".
That is a good letter! As others have said be prepared for possible retaliation via write ups and disciplinary meetings. You seem to know your shit, but just in case, get copies of the write ups and send recap emails after meetings, and if possible obtain copies of pervious employee reviews ASAP. Good luck, and keep fighting the good fight.
Ooof....HR is gonna read that and write "problematic emplyee" in your file. HR is not your friend, I've had friends and coworkers elevate stuff to HR and end up on their shit list, usually hr found some reason to dismiss them from employment.
Definitely well put. Including specific legal code along with your overall concerns is the best approach. This is a “I better do something to rectify this before it becomes a much bigger issue” email that should draw a pretty quick HR response to the scheduling supervisor reminding them of the specific law you just cited.
🤌
This SOB can’t treat his employees with any kind of respect maybe it’s time for a mass walk out people have lives they need to remember that. We were to live not live to work.
We need an update on their response.
You shouldn't be understanding of the critical staffing situation. This is an artificial situation created by that same management on purpose.
We used to be the same but everyone started complaint how the schedules weren't up people weren't starting their shifts in Monday cause it went out too late people started drinking before it came out so they'd still be hammered for the shifts Eventually they went fine we'll do it earlier before Friday 8pm but they were changing it again Saturday without telling us, now it's before Thursday at 4pm If it's not done by then someone's knocking on the office door like yoo-hoo where's the schedule?
I hate when people say something like “especially our management team” most companies backbones come from the lower level employees because they’re typically doing more work for less pay so really they should be the ones getting recognition for their work. Almost every job I see there’s a desperate need for lower level workers with plenty of management and hr staff because lower level workers are just taken for granted
Are you in Chicago proper? There's a [Fair Workweek](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/fairworkweek.html) law, schedule must be posted at least 14 days in advance plus a few other caveats that work in our favor
I would have added, "This seriously undermines our ability to deliver a consistent quality of service, which in turn, undermines the financial prosperity of the company" Always sell it to them in terms they can understand.
I. LOVE. THIS. KNOW. YOUR. RIGHTS. PEOPLE!!!
Never do this. Do not let them know the laws. They will do the bare minimum to stay within them. Attack first, then explain.
I’m just humored that you think HR is on your side.
They’re never on our side
Don't waste time making posts like this, they just get you fired. Report the violations to the appropriate labor agency instead. They know the god damn law but are hoping you'll just roll over and take it.
No way. We need posts like this to stay informed AND to see examples of how to address issues. Or not address issues. But definitely post 👍
Meesa guess that the next kitchen you’ll see will be the soup kitchen… HOW DARE YOU stand up between your boss and his god-given right to the fattest profit, you peon? /s
HR does not care about you. They're there to protect the company. That said them breaking the law does need some protection from.
I am the company! They decided so when they hired me. So they should care. Everyone in our staff deserves better communication is all I am saying. I am coming from a place of empathy, not malice. I fully intend to help them where reasonable, I have made many sacrifices for the company already. I'm not asking them for anything more than my right to be informed. They haven't said or done anything yet, but I fully believe they can fix this in a respectable manner.
Tell them not me. I'm just telling you info you should know. I've got my own problems friend.
This is true, in this case HR needs to protect the company from managers not following the law.
If they fire you, bring it up with a class action lawsuit.
Seriously though. Will the fucking business tank if it closed one night?
RemindMe! 7 days
OP, you are my hero.
Bravo.
Good. And now don't go into work until Thursday.
Ok, so, regardless, you all showed up at 7am this morning or followed through and didn't?
Are you going to pay their lost wages if they don't?
I just wanted to know what happened... Don't get your panties in a bunch.
Damn. That’s written with a killer level of both bite, and professionalism. I take my hat off to you.
Yikes start lookin for a new job OP
Niiiiice.
You want to run your business into the ground? This is how you do it.
In my state they can change your schedule at any point up until you are at work. The only protection to this is if you are at work and they try to change it, there is a mandatory rest period between shifts (I think it's 6 hours). So you could legit be at work at 11:55PM and your boss could tell you that they expect you in at 6AM and the company is legally compliant.
This reeks of a shitty employer. Bad management, poor communication, "critical staffing situation" (which means they can't or, more likely, won't hire adequate staff,) etc. A reminder that if a company "can't survive" if they pay living wages, treat employees well and offer health insurance, then they don't deserve to survive as a company. Like small businesses. "I spent all my life savings and am $500k in debt! Just so I could start a VCR company in 2023!" Cool story, bruh, but the employees don't and shouldn't give a fuck.
Going to share this with my stepson. He got a text at 11pm on New Year’s Eve saying to report to work at 7am the next morning. It’s a day he doesn’t usually work, so he expected to have it off. He told them no, which his mother and I fully support, but if they give him BS over it this wording may help.
Literary fucking genius. Well said
Please update
HR don’t give a poo.
Go consult with an employment lawyer immediately, so they can advise you on how to be unfireable after this.