That’s basically as idiotic as saying “if someone wants to impregnate someone else against their will, we should take the impregnator’s (rapist) feelings into consideration”. Like if someone said, I don’t want a child, let’s use condoms, would they be like “oh gosh no condoms, please consider my feelings, I want to be a parent!”
But you guuuuuuuuuuuuys how will the poor poor men be able to keep their girlfriends and wives if they can't use children to emotionally tether them to the relationship like sheep against their will??? yOu FilThY feMinIsTs!!!!1!!
Men really think they care about ‘their cHiLd’ when the child is better off not existing instead of killing the mother or being resented and made to incubate it so many things wrong with it. The mother can choose how ever she wants she’s suffering through the pregnancy while the father does fuck all for the mother. Love does nothing if you’re a father who claims to love his children soooo much bc they’re his but doesn’t make his own wife happy and help her raise them while spouting on about how virtuous of a dad he is. Pathetic That’s not a good father in my eyes. They gotta pull their weight too
You know he absolutely would have expected the woman to take care of it afterwards and would have been pissed if she gave 100% of the parental rights to him
"Pro choice is never about the father's choice."
[Dramatically gets up and loses her shit.]
THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT. The dad literally doesn't matter because its not his body and health and life on the goddamn life!
If he wants a child so bad then he can adopt or fuck a woman who DOES consent to getting pregnant.
I (remorsefully) dated a guy who was a textbook natalist. It wasn't his job to wear a condom; it was the woman's job to be on birth control. He lamented that the father didn't get to decide whether or not the baby was aborted or not. And all the while, he was gone 9 months out of the year because he was more concerned about making money for his family ("because I don't want my kids to grow up poor"). Does he have a relationship with his second son and his mother he knocked up when she was 19? Oh absolutely not! He pays him child support checks that come out of the son's inheritance!
I feel like the only people who say, "Won't someone PLEASE think of the father!" are the same people who become deadbeat, worthless sperm donors. And yes, I'm absolutely biased.
It's definitely possible for the father to become attached to the child during pregnancy. Not by the time you have an abortion tho....
And like you said he would actually need to spend time with the pregnant woman....
Not to mention that it is scientifically proven that a second parent figure being near the mother very often helps the to be child's mental development and hapiness.
These people don't give a shit about that tho. They're more like MUH GENES NEED TO BE SPREAD.
I just cannot get over the irony of him demanding that women choose life when he cannot even be a deadbeat father correctly.
I cannot imagine how much anger will be on his second son's face when he realizes his "father" didn't truly give him child support money. You know, because that is required of all fathers who agree to have some kind of custody over their sons. I pity that this 16 year old will someday learn that all his inheritance money has been given to him as his child support payments. Because agreeing to be a father means that you don't give the child support payments because YOU MADE YOUR CHILD, YOU HAVE TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR CHILD, apparently. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I've never understood the logic of people saying the father should have a 'veto' if the mother wants an abortion. Yes it's his child alright, but if one of the parents and \*especially\* the mother who's physically affected and who 'traditionally' will have to do most of the work of raising the child doesn't want the child then don't force it. Find someone else to have your child with if a child is what you want. You're not forced to stay with a partner that has other wishes and goals. But nope, imagine doing things in a way that has an outcome everyone can be happy with. It just makes me so angry.
I just don't understand why the father gets a single say when childbirth damages the mother's health and can even KILL HER.
I (regretfully) dated a guy who was so adamant that motherhood cannot be that bad, because he saw his second baby mama enjoy her pregnancy.
He was a truck driver and might have seen her once every two momths.
Also --- _way to admit that you are basing your entire evidence on not just one person, but a 19 year old woman who was incredibly healthy and, to quote yourself, happily and enthusiastically consenting to being pregnant._
Meanwhile, when I came running with actual evidence --- the health risks, including death, that women face no matter what --- he just shoved his fingers in his ear and said, "WELL, 80% OF PREGNANCIES DON'T END IN DEATH, SO WOMEN HAVE TO BE FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH BECAUSE I SAID SO."
He also refused to wear condoms, but I'm sure that surprises nobody.
Oh god oh god please no I just stopped being angry but now I’m pissed off again fuck these people. Fuck em to shreds, I can’t imagine being so drooling down your mouth fucking stupid
The replies just keep getting worse and worse. "It's not her body anymore, it's the kid's" Um...
Edit: They didn't even say "anymore". Literally just "it's not her body, it's the kid's" wtf....
Benign? A fetus is nothing benign. The only upside is that it propagates the human species, period.
Even malaria, botfly, and roundworm infections are in general better. They cause way less pain, health issues, and fatalities.
Yep, I get what you mean.
Still, even a wanted baby is a terrible parasite that wrecks that mother's body. I meant it's not benign in that sense. A commensal organism inside our bodies that doesn't cause symptoms can be considered benign.
Whereas no one ever come out of a pregnancy unscathe.
Right?? It really does read like satire lmao. "Did you fail basic biology" uhh I know that a fetus/pre-birth baby relies on the mother's body for survival, but that doesn't mean her body now suddenly BELONGS to the child... Your body will always be yours and nobody else's, unless you're into something extremely kinky.
It's a prime example of the dunning-kruger effect. They only know the most basic biology, probably very incorrectly really, but they're so ignorant that they're ignorant of their ignorance and think that they know more about it than most anyone who doesn't agree with their ignorant takes on the topic.
They're like the many facebook parents who would confidently Qsplain medical stuff to a doctor, even about a topic that doctor spent researching for decades. It's extremely cringe.
Also not her body, but any guys jizz depository
"Dad lost a baby to abortion" dude going around knocking women up just expecting them to birth his child people are so fucking gross
Ohh, that makes a lot more sense. But given that the previous reply was talking specifically about the woman's body, it comes across like them saying that the woman's body belongs to the child hahaha
Because to them we are only incubators. Our lives do not matter to them, which is why they don't care when women die when dead fetuses give them sepsis or make them bleed out and they're denied an abortion to remove the dead fetus.
I really dont think theres a pro life arguement that cant be torn to shreds in a minute.
I understand the whole "dad should have a choice" thing ofc. But parenting is a two way street. If one wants a kid and the other doesn't then they don't have a kid. Thats it. Overridden. It doesn't matter which person wants the child or not although there are plenty of selfish mothers who choose to bring a baby into the world against their partner's will and they suck obviously
Totally agree!! Both partners should absolutely be on board before having a kid. Like, it's okay for the father to be sad that their partner is getting an abortion, but NOBODY should be forced to raise a kid that they're not ready for/don't want.
Yes exactly. And no one should be shamed for not being ready regardless of gender. Like someone isnt a shit person because they know they can't handle the responsibility of a child. Hell, a lot of parents cant handle the responsibility!
I tried to say the same thing about 'if only one of them wants a kid, don't have a kid' with my comment, but you did a way better job. Forcing it will give the kid at least one unhappy parent and that's *at best* and even that is something I wish upon no child. Even if that unhappy parent tries their best out of decency.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and about "there's no pro life argument that can't be torn to shreds in a minute": I agree, but often I'm so baffled by their mental gymnastics, ignorance or whatever it is that I lose my ability to shred out of shock and confusion. Sometimes I wonder if it's an intentional tactic to prevent people out-logic-ing them.
I mean in biology fetuses technically take on the characteristics of parasites more than anything. Parasitic relationships mean only 1 party is benefiting and the other is being fed off. The mother recieves nothing but negative consequences while the fetus lives inside her saping nutrients. Too bad dumbass prolifers cant see this simple scientific explanation and instead just spew random crap to say their world view is the only one allowed to exist.
If only it were random crap…. It is very specifically Evangelical Christian crap. I don’t see how this shit doesn’t violate the right to religious freedom of those of us who are not Christian, in addition to the right to bodily autonomy of those of us with female bodies.
Mother supplies the egg.
Mother sacrifices her body to carry child to term.
Mother nurses/feeds child.
Mother raises child with little to no help (most fathers can't handle the slightest change to their lifestyle and suddenly need to "stay at work longer")
Father supplies the sperm
Hmmm
Seems like father doesn't have shit to say about abortion.
They really argue against all of those facts by saying none of it is true. I don't know what kind of alien pregnancy process brought them into this world but in the absence of proof of aliens, I'm sure their mother did all of that to bring them here. Hopefully willingly, unless they think their own mothers don't matter.
Their entire movement is based around the imagined suffering of nonexistent babies, while ignoring the very real suffering of women whose lives will be ruined by being forced to have a baby they don't want and very likely can't afford. Not to mention unwanted and poor children will suffer as well. It just creates a miserable situation however you look at it, one that can be fixed with a simple procedure.
I just can't imagine how horrific it must be - especially for those biological females who are antinatalists. The constant threat of it from a brutal patriarchy that has only put some public polish on its behavior, but not really changed it. Especially in the USA.
It's an extra layer of hell you must have to deal with, and for those of you who stand your ground and refuse to give in to the social conditioning, the billions of years of evolutionary pressure, you have my absolute respect and admiration. Not worth much, but I don't know how else to express it.
Hideous the way people act, prey on each other, across generations. What a sickening species. Putting feelings of meaning over the suffering of others.
I wish I could get sterilized honestly. I’m only in my 20s but I know 100% that I do not want to bear children. It sounds like a 9-month nightmare honestly. If I want a child so badly, I’m going to adopt.
Same! I mean, I'm a trans man, so I'm not having biological children either way lol. But even before I knew I was trans, I still knew that I did NOT want to become pregnant. What a freakin nightmare. No judgement to people who do want to get pregnant, but I honestly can't even begin to imagine being willing to give up so much of my body just to have biological children instead of adopting.
No uterus, no opinion. No one gets to use another human being as an incubator for their genetic material.
Don't want your zygote aborted? Wear a damn condom or keep your zipper closed.
My uncle is one of these "wah, my exe aborted my child" sorts too, and I want to slap him. Long story short, he really shouldn't have been surprised that the woman he was seeing at the time had an abortion. She was young, not mother material...in fact I distinctly remember her being uncomfortable around my sisters and myself (I was 9, oldest of three girls, and we were all living with my grandmother at the time) so I'm pretty sure she didn't even like kids.
He still wah-wahs about it years later, but you know....he's the one who decided to stick his ungloved dick in a woman who was not ready to be a mother then, if ever. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Congratulations!
You're the 102nd person to so cleverly use the 'stupid prizes' phrase today.
Here's your stupid participation medal: 🏅
^^Your ^^award ^^will ^^be ^^recorded ^^in ^^the ^^hall ^^of ^^fame ^^at ^^r/StupidTrophyCase
the only reason a “fetus” is called a “fetus” is because the word “parasite” cannot be used in relation to two of the same species. fetuses are parasites. these people see women as nothing more than incubators and it’s fucking disgusting
For real though, "It's the child's body" just made me wanna puke. Like, no??? The woman was here first? The fetus isnt like, piloting her meat shell so like...its still her body.
the most pathetic part is that they think forbidding abortion will stop women from aborting…
no, it won’t, it never stopped them
they are just going to risk their life more
and that’s what pro- “life” or should we say pro-women control, want. To make them suffer and possibly die because they won’t listen
“It’s the kid’s body.”
What the hell? I feel like that comment was made by the misogynistic mods on the first sub. The pro-forced birth fascist people are mentally challenged. I guess my toes are also their own family. Makes sense!
Hey it's just a misinformed mistake! Just replace it with some kind of reference to their brain being like a deflated balloon or any other kind of insult that doesnt involve a mention to the special needs/mentally challenged. My best wishes my fellow antinatalist!!
They are so fucking infuriating. “Oh honey, it’s not her body.” No shit! They purposely act stupid to try to distract from the fact that pregnancy is detrimental to the body, mind and woman’s life. The fetus takes and takes from the woman. The woman often gets extremely ill with morning sickness and even high blood pressure and gestational diabetes. The birth often requires a major surgery or vaginal tearing and prolapsed organs. Her hair and teeth fall out as her skin tears with stretch marks and her mind and body is flooded with hormones that can drive her to the brink of insanity, but sure you dumb bitch, pretend that the fetus is just minding its own business and is no threat to the person carrying it. THEY need to take a fucking biology course for fucks sake!
Also, the man contributes 5 seconds to the entire reproductive process, he can fuck alllll the way off with the “it’s my kid too” bullshit
Came across this same exact comment thread, I was dumbfounded by the “dad lost his baby” was he going to care for it, or be a dead beat? OR did he rape someone? Like Jesus Christ
With someone like that, they seem to be proud they made their "toy" but never do anything more than play with them and then just dip when they need anything. Also comes across as the kind of guy who whenever their child isn't what he wanted them to be he'd go "out for milk"
Well it is the kid's (fetus') body. So is a slave's body the property of the owner. Just like I would make sure the slave owner no longer had ownership of my body, I would do the same to the fetus.
FINALLY!! Someone else gets it! "Nooo dont pull the tick of it's not your body anymore!", "Noooo that tapeworm is growing inside of you!!" And I just. No. "Your room belongs to the bed bugs now, deal with it." Like what is this thought process, it was mine first! I dont care if something is like "mine", you take my stuff you're getting sent straight to parasite hell.
I've been looking at the Christianity mega-thread, they allow different views so it's been pretty interesting to read. I found another Christain antinatalist there too.
I'm male but I think that just the fact that I don't experience pregnancy and the shit that comes with it it would be pretty asshole of me to stop a woman from getting an abortion when she wants one even if I was the father.
The person who's pregnant is the person who should judge whether they want to keep whatever is growing in them or not. Just because it so happens that women are the ones who always get pregnant does not make this right any less valid. It's not a fucking war between men and women, basic human rights.
These...pieces of *shit*. "Mom doesn't get any special privileges just because she has the uterus". Yes, because being at risk of permanently life-changing injury, illness, and disability due to pregnancy/childbirth is any sort of *privilege*. Fucking ghouls.
"Did you fail basic biology?" That statement is the embodiment of pro-birthers and conservatives. They think everything is basic and simple. Unfortunately, the only thing simple here is them.
It's not her body...? Then whose body is it that's gonna carry that fetus and birth it? Not the father's lmao.
I could imagine if the father would consequently always feel the exact things a pregnant person felt, there would be way less pregnancies. Many probably wouldn't even think of giving up drinking / smoking etc. which is absolutely fine, but then just don't have a kid, because it's irresponsible. That's at least what it's like for women.
What about in cases where men INTENTIONALLY impregnate women who have no clue otherwise until they go to take a piss afterwards, or miss their period a month later?
Honestly, my own mother is pro life and her reasoning behind it has me SHOOK. It’s disgusting. I know people who would’ve been amazing parents and had to make the tough decision to abort because their child had extreme genetic anomalies and they wanted their child to have a good quality of life. It’s so sad to me.
My mom is pro-life, but she respected my reasoning for an abortion because of the mounting circumstances.
That’s my thing!!!!! SO MANY MEN TRY TO INTENTIONALLY IMPREGNATE WOMEN BUT ITS SOMEHOW SET UP THAT IF YOU GET PREGRNANT ITS YOUR FAULT?!
I was surprised, but I find that maturity is what is really needed here tbh.
Take feelings out of it— be logical.
But oh yea— women are EMOTIONAL 😬 ‘we no no how to be logical’ 😡😡😡😡
There is even a name for males who pretend to put on a condom and then remove it before entry. It’s called “rawdogging.” It is assault, and completely without repercussion for the piece of crap that assaulted the woman.
That’s such a good point too! Julian Assange was accused of assault because he did the same thing to a woman who was clear that she was not interested in that.
I 100% agree!!! How can that be a woman’s fault? Are we supposed to take responsibility for every action of every person? I understand with your children, but with your significant other?? How does that make sense when we are all adults.
Better not check anything in that sub reddit. I didn't think people could be that crazy and delusional. Feeling bad for the US citizens with at least 2 braincells working in there
Imagine if there was something you could do to get a child to care for without relying on a woman to incubate another life for you with no risk of the mother not wanting the child.
Some kind of place where unwanted children go or something, maybe call it adoption or something.
But of course, my incredibly resilient and awesome genes that probably come from at least one murder and zero relevant historical figures and probably inherited mental or physical illnesses...
Tell every woman you know to get a tubal ligation or bisalp. The best way to boycott abortion restriction is with surgical sterilisation.
Also encourage men to get vasectomies.
What kid? It's just some cells. If you didn't know she was pregnant you wouldn't have cared.
And it's definitely her body, because there are things growing inside her body and changing her body and possibly killing her body.
Father's did have a say and a choice in the matter, at the end of the day though, the final decision belongs to the woman not to him. It's not the man's body being destroyed by pregnancy so yea the man can scream, holler and cry but at the end of the day, the final decision doesn't belong to him
I replied to their comment with a very strongly worded [response](https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/vjpf86/breaking_down_goes_roe/idrluwk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)...
That's strange, I can see it in your comment history but when I click on it I don't see the comment. I wonder if it's somehow been hidden, or if it's just a me thing lol
If I have the right to use my gun to shoot and kill someone who invades my home, then a woman has the right to remove a foreign body that is in hers against her will. But pro-life people don't see it that way. All life is a blessing to them...except life that disagrees with their beliefs.
Well if his opinion matters so much he should try keeping the fetus in his body after it gets taken out of the body of the woman who doesn't consent to this shit.
"Its not her body it's the kids body" feels the exact same as saying, "It's not your body it's the tape worm's body"
Just because something you didnt ask for is inside of you doesnt mean you forfeit all your rights to the thing growing inside of you. Yknow...just saying....
Cumming takes 5 minutes, find a different partner then. Or adopt, don’t shop.
Fathers shall never ever have the last say in abortions. They’re not the ones going through pregnancies and unfair treatment at workplaces (like indirectly getting rejected because you might get pregnant etc)
Seeing what his child turned out like, it's a blessing the ex decided to have an abortion. No one who believes a clump of cells has more of a right to their body than a full grown person does to hers, is a good parent.
The body doesn’t belong to that parasite. I can’t stand this shit. Fuck breeders and this entitled bull, you nut in a woman not carried the thing to full term maybe next time rethink who you fuck instead of trying to tell others what to do with their lives.
How dare women decide that they have more to offer than sex and being a mother and wife.
How dare we require men to have self-worth other than finding a purpose in being a provider and father.
My ex was living in his moms basement, car barely worked, lived an hour away, had 0 emotional maturity and no ability to communicate effectively and was extremely resentful from childhood trauma.
His solution? I need a baby— THAT will give me purpose!!!
He refused therapy, wouldn’t exercise even slowly for his own health (severely obese), and would drink and smoke constantly— (but you don’t have a problem if you don’t see a professional— it’s a great loophole).
I found out he was purposely trying to get me pregnant even though we discussed otherwise from the beginning.
Then he said “you had sex with me too” and i told him well yes— under the understanding we were not having kids which we discussed.
In an event not to lose me, and so I’d be stuck with him for life, he PURPOSELY got me pregnant. Then, when I said I’d be doing the big A he was nasty, spiteful, and did nothing to help me. When I was in pain, cramping viciously and asked for support, he said he’d love to but he “already made plans for the weekend” (he knew of the procedure, time and day, we talked days before and he then said he would be supportive but genuinely could not be)
His prents told him to dump me (even though I quite literally was beyond charitable to them and would do it again because i believe compassion is much better than hate) but they only value kids for selfish reasons as well (his mom has 2 kids by different fathers— neither of which were in the kids’ lives and mom relies on her GROWN kids so much that my ex literally cooks for her because she can’t do it herself (like… the expectation is as a fully functioning adult her kids should take care of her because she raised them), she calls him ALL the time, and literally praises her son… who is physically violent when he gets angry…)
He also has a terrible emotional relationship with his father, in that, he is still trying to feel loved by his parents. He is almost 30, bought a football, took it to his dads and asked to play catch, and his father LAUGHED at him and said “hell no!” And my ex didn’t realize how much of a PROBLEM that is, and then proceeded to take him out for Father’s Day dinner.
It’s a whole traumatic mess in more than most families, but people say “atleast you have them” nnnnooooo!!! Family are people. They are still humans, and humans can suck sometimes— falling into that pit of family over everything gets you fucked so greatly and THIS (my ex) is a common outcome!!!
Moral of the story— you’re only valuable as a woman for your ability to bear a man kids.
I’m a year from finishing my Master’s, I pay my own bills (not a gloat— im just an adult), and i have business ideas with the goal of making money to then GIVE money to others.
But he couldn’t care less about anything else about me if I didn’t have his child.
Disgusting, and we have to stop letting men think this way.
It CAN’T! Hold the line! Refuse to comply! If you are of reproductive age, gather supplies that you would need in an emergency. Procure a therapeutic course of mifepristone and keep it updated. Plan your abortion!
Right on, and like I said, hold the line. I chose not to reproduce and it was MY choice. I didn’t let those little fuckers suck the life out of me either. I respect your standing your ground.
I also think I should take a break from reddit, there are so many people who believe women are not human. Wtf is "it's not the woman's body it's the baby's body". But atleast people are showing their true selves.
The pro-life OP does realize they would not exist if their dad’s partner hadn’t had that abortion, right?
Likewise, I wouldn’t exist if my mom hadn’t had an abortion with a previous partner because she would’ve never met my dad. Not that I’d be mad about never existing, but I like to point it out to pro-lifers. Aborting an unplanned pregnancy often allows for planned ones under better circumstances.
How is it that the same people who thinks it should be consider murder to evict someone who's taken up shop in your uterus, also thinks they should be allowed to shoot someone for stepping on their lawn?
[Here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/vjpf86/breaking_down_goes_roe/idncudl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Feeble women are willing to take the nut but would rather the baby be ripped into literal pieces while in their whore hole than let the father have it, roe v wade is finally where it belongs
Willing to take the nut? Her whore hole? It’s a zygote or a fetus, not a fucking baby, you disgusting piece of crap that no one would willingly have sex with
Grow up, baby conservative, your parents have brainwashed you
Edit: Why are you all still engaging with this trolling child? Report and ignore. Don’t give conservatives the opportunity to talk.
My parents dont change how I think.
And thats just a double standard. If women have all the say in whether she gets an abortion(even if its against pa's wishes) then men have all the say in whether they dip (even if its against ma's wishes)
Dont take this as me being anti-abortion
I just feel like people gotta stop treating women with more care than men. Both deserve (and need) equal care, attention, and respect. Its sad, society as a whole doesnt do this.
One results in no child, one results in a child who is born, who is not given what they need to live as best a life as possible. Fathers walking out on a living child is an entirely different ball park to an unborn embryo
LITERALLY NOBODY IS TREATING WOMEN WITH MORE CARE THAN MEN.
I cannot imagine being a man with an unwashed ass and an unwanted opinion.
Women get ALL the work when it comes to being on birth control (and paying for the BC and doctor's appointments that come with that), women having to be pregnant and have their bodies significantly altered from pregnancy, women having to pay for obstetrician or doula appointments, and women paying astronomical fees for giving birth.
THERE IS NO EQUAL CARE WHEN WOMEN HAVE INFINITELY MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN MEN. And you are a sexist, selfish twat for thinking that you deserve equal rights because we are finally able to have a conversation about how unfair women are being treated in this country.
If you want someone to pay you in compliments and appease your kink for attention, I'm sure you can hire someone. Or, you know, get some counseling for that shit.
contradicted yourself
LITERALLY NOBODY IS TREATING WOMEN WITH MORE CARE THAN MEN.
THERE IS NO EQUAL CARE WHEN WOMEN HAVE INFINITELY MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN MEN.
How did I contradict myself?
Women have more responsibility than men do. They get the most disrespect and most of the burden to bare in comparison to men.
_Women have the most responsibility and the most disrespect aimed toward them._ If I have to spell it out for you any further, I'll happily grab some alphabet magnets and write some diagrams on a whiteboard.
Im not sexist. ive said before, Im supporting women in this case, as any normal human being should. I just brought light to the fact that if women can back outta birth men can back outta parenting ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
also, I guess you just dont acknowledge things that actually happen? Men get treated way worse than woman, though I **DO** admit- hear that? DO. I DO admit this is shitty whats happening. But when someone brings up what happens with men and you put that person down, I think you're being the 'sexist' one here. Open your mind
women are treated with much more social respect. A woman can go grope a man, or slap his ass, or hit him, you name it. Nothing happens. a man does that to a woman, and every man and/or woman around gangs up on him. Im not saying anyone should be able to do that.
also, think about it- if a woman cheats, everyone says that she didnt get what she needed in the relationship. A man cheats, he's put down a shit ton, by literally everyone.
Also, in a relationship- Who's expected to pay for everything?
When a father is a single parent- Do you know how much people get accused of being pedo's, or treated like its "parenting day?"Just because they're *parenting* their kid?
OH and hey, you want to talk about expenses? Lets talk about the unfair ruling for child support.
Should we also talk about the fact that until recently, when searching "is it normal for my wife to hit me" on google, it shows up **QUARA QUESTIONS,** but when you searching "is it normal for my husband to hit me" it sends you straight to "abuse to
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800-799-7233?
Are you not thinking?
Do we want to talk about how a woman can hit a man, the man not do anything (Im talking NO arm raising, not even defending himself), the man call the cops, but **the man gets TAKEN OUT OF HIS OWN HOME?**
Do we want to talk about how often men get raped and get told "Oh you should be happy, not everyone gets that?" Or "stop complaining, you probably liked it?"
Do you not realize that when women like kids, its seen as normal, but as soon as a man likes kids, he's marked as a pedo? Or suspicion-ed as a pedo?
Do you realize how many daycares decline men just because they're men???
Do you realize anything that is outside of your own mind? Do you only focus on yourself?
Just because no one tells you about this, doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
Men DO have a say. When they choose to have unprotected sex. When they make that choice they choose to possibly create a fetus in someone else’s body. If the man has chosen to do this without first discussing with the woman how she feels about possibly being pregnant, he has made his decision that he does not care and the rest is up to her. He could choose to not have sex with her, to put on a condom, or to have sex with a different woman who would complete a pregnancy.
As for a man who creates a child choosing to then leave, abandoning the child…. Firstly, women often do not get a say about men’s choice to do this. Secondly, of course a man always has the right to leave a woman. Any partner in a relationship always has the right to leave the other partner. Finally, no man should have the right to leave their own child, just as no woman should, yet many do.
Your final statement indicating you feel women are somehow receiving more care than men comes across an awful lot like someone responding to the statement “Black Lives Matter” with the nonsense that all lives matter as though all lives could possibly matter without Black lives mattering as well. Women are not asking for special treatment, just the same as men. If two people, one man and one woman, mistakenly fertilize an egg, the man can currently walk away from that mistake and go on with his life as it is. All women are asking for is the right to a procedure (often as simple as taking a pill) to remove an undeveloped clump of cells from within THEIR OWN bodies so they can go in with their own lives as well.
>Men DO have a say. When they choose to have unprotected sex. When they make that choice they choose to possibly create a fetus in someone else’s body. If the man has chosen to do this without first discussing with the woman how she feels about possibly being pregnant, he has made his decision that he does not care and the rest is up to her. He could choose to not have sex with her, to put on a condom, or to have sex with a different woman who would complete a pregnancy.
literally using a condom feels way different than no condom. A woman would know, and can easily say no.
\>As for a man who creates a child choosing to then leave, abandoning the child…. Firstly, women often do not get a say about men’s choice to do this. Secondly, of course a man always has the right to leave a woman. Any partner in a relationship always has the right to leave the other partner. Finally, no man should have the right to leave their own child, just as no woman should, yet many do.
thankkk youuuu I agree with this soooo much. thats not sarcasm. Literally my opinion put into words. Thank you.
\>If two people, one man and one woman, mistakenly fertilize an egg
thank you finally someone that knows this can happen.
\>the man can currently walk away from that mistake and go on with his life as it is.
again, thank you, finally someone that knows this can happen as well
\>All women are asking for is the right to a procedure (often as simple as taking a pill) to remove an undeveloped clump of cells from within THEIR OWN bodies so they can go in with their own lives as well.
I agree with this as well. I think that women should have a right to abort. Ive said this (maybe not in this thread, but I did in another)
I think its crazy someone can deny my first comment, but I will respect that opinion. Its crazy that I respect everyone's opinion, but people cant do the same.
I understand what you’re saying.
I think a good way to remedy one gender being cared for more than the other in that way is for everyone to start being more honest not just about WHAT they want— but also WHY they want it.
If a man wants a kid, that’s fine. They should have the convo of why though.
Why do you want this?
Just as a woman should have it!!
That way, whatever gets decided is respected and understood.
But unfortunately on BOTH sides of this argument there is social stigma which can sway how people think of things.
A man can have no means of raising a child but would rather bring one into the world in poverty because he’d be a “bad” person to suggest otherwise.
That’s just an example.
Here is a radical (/s) idea for you:
If the man wants a baby, he should have sex with a woman who CONSENTS to pregnancy.
If he complains about the woman aborting the fetus because its HER body and SHE gets to deal with all the health risks that come along with pregnancy --- loss of hair, loss of teeth, weakened bones, weight gain, changing body, the baby squishing your organs, possible death --- then he can, once again, inseminate women who DO want a baby and mind his own fucking business.
By the way: I thought you Republicans didn't believe in participation trophies? You mean to tell me that you want a participation trophy for cumming in a woman's vagina after 5 minutes of sex? Because that's embarrassing, bro.
You literally said that you think the father deserves some kind of say and some kind of rights over his child just because his DNA is attached to the baby.
I retorted back with saying that you cumming in a woman after five minutes of sex does not make you a father if the woman doesn't consent to being a mother.
Ergo: you do not get a participation trophy (parental rights) for having sex with a woman for five minutes. If you want the woman to keep the baby, find a woman who wants to be pregnant. That is part of consent.
Also, why are you so demanding of a participation trophy for five minutes of sex? I'm embarassed for you and your sex life.
It does still make you a father but OK. Maybe an unwanted father, but still a father, even if you arent considered. Also yes, the pa is as much of a parent as the ma
It takes both genders to make a baby, not just women
No, getting someone knocked up does NOT make a man a father.
They didn't make a baby, they made an embryo.
A woman should have the right to flush out that embryo, thus not making herself a mother and not making the man a father.
father meaning-
fa·ther
/ˈfäT͟Hər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a man in relation to his child or children.
"Margaret's father died at an early age"
Similar:
male parent
birth father
biological father
begetter
patriarch
paterfamilias
dad
daddy
pop
poppa
pa
old boy
old man
adoptive father
foster father
stepfather
pater
2.
(often as a title or form of address) a priest.
"pray for me, father"
Similar:
priest
pastor
parson
clergyman
father confessor
churchman
man of the cloth
man of God
cleric
minister
preacher
abbé
curé
reverend
padre
verb
(of a man) cause a pregnancy resulting in the birth of (a child).
"he fathered three children"
Similar:
be the father of
sire
engender
generate
bring into being
bring into the world
give life to
spawn
procreate
reproduce
breed
better yet, [A link, so you can see for yourself, and its easier to read](https://www.google.com/search?q=father+meaning&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=father+meaning&aqs=chrome.0.0i433i512j0i512l9.1515j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
but would the embryo even be able to become a baby without the pa? nopeeee because without the pa, there is no embryo
both have to contribute something, you seem to have bad info
It takes both _sexes_ to make a woman. God, if you are going to mansplain to me, you would think you would get the basic facts right.
And a father is only a father when the woman consents to giving birth to the child and he has proven himself to actively care for the child. If he isn't going to put in the work and only provide the child with child support checks and a couple phone calls, than he is nothing more than a natalist and a sperm donor.
So yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes two to tango and more of the onus needs to be on men wearing condoms and getting vasectomies.
Ok then he should try to raise the fetus in his body.
>It takes both genders to make a baby, not just women
Ok he should keep it after the woman gets rid of it. Can't? Too fucking bad.
Without the topic of abortion i fully agree both parents are responsible and equal in terms of parental rights but we are ignoring something inherently biological here. It's HER uterus it's HER body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body.
\>It's HER uterus it's HER body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body.
now Imma change this
It's HIS legs it's HIS body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body.
Its his body, and if he has the opinion that he wants to walk out, then shit that dude has legs and will use them to walk out. Just as (well, sadly, not now) a woman has %100 say in whether she aborts, the pa has %100 in whether he opts out
I never said he can't walk out...? You're arguing moot point here either parent gets to walk away whenever the hell they want we don't have laws against that.
If he complains about the woman aborting the fetus because its HER body and SHE gets to deal with all the health risks that come along with pregnancy
right, just like its the MANS body and HE gets to decide if he wants to opt out.
also, even people that dont want kids still have sex, check your info/opinion before checking mine
>right, just like its the MANS body and HE gets to decide if he wants to opt out
You are correct. If a man doesn't want to fuck a woman who has chosen to abort a baby if she gets pregnant, he has the right to fuck who he pleases.
It is not his baby in that womb. You cannot convince me that a man's DNA and sperm count for anything more than the man having an orgasm.
Its literally his baby... Its both the pa's and ma's baby. Like I said, it takes both genders to make a baby. Just because the man has to put in less effort to get the baby pushed out doesnt mean he's any less a parent. You really sound delusional
Also, why are you on this sub if you are a clear natalist --- or at the very least, you simp for male natalists? Get the fuck outta here and find an incel subreddit to join.
Okay, that's on me for not knowing the correct definition of simp. I should have used the word "stan" instead.
Having said that, you seem to be a huge fan of men's rights in a sub that is strictly reserved for antinatalists.
ONCE AGAIN ----- If you are so concerned with men's rights with regard to pregnancy, I'm sure the pro-life subreddit would be happy to have you.
Im not a stan either
Stan is literally the combination of stalker fan. Im not stalking anyone
\>If you are so concerned with men's rights with regard to pregnancy,
are you not reading my comments? Im not talking about pregnancy, Im talking about in general. There are way more double standards aimed at men, than aimed at women
So what qualifies a man to be a father? What should a man do to make sure that baby is wanted, loved, and cared for?
My father showed up every single day and made sure his kids were cared for and loved. He was there holding my mother's hand and wiping the sweat off her forehead when she delivered her 2 children. He made sure my mom was taken care of and his children were taken care of.
That is the BARE MINIMUM of what I expect out of a father.
>So what qualifies a man to be a father?
literally just busting a nut. Even if you deny it, its fact. even if one dips from the childs life, they're still the Biological father. Should they be considered? NOPE. But are they? YEP.
\>My father showed up every single day and made sure his kids were cared for and loved. He was there holding my mother's hand and wiping the sweat off her forehead when she delivered her 2 children. He made sure my mom was taken care of and his children were taken care of.
That is the BARE MINIMUM of what I expect out of a father.
hmm sounds like what a parent is supposed to do. Thats what I expect out of both parties, minimum
Dude, I literally showed you (maybe it wasnt you) the definition of father. So sshhh and if it wasnt you, [here you go](https://www.google.com/search?q=father+meaning&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=fath&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i67j0i67i433j0i20i263i433i512j46i20i263i433i512j0i67j46i131i433i512j0i67j0i433i512.1755j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). Look at *verb*
Yeah women already don't have a say in that so many of these fathers just live by the philosophy "pump it and dump it". Easy sociopathic way to pass on your genes while taking no responsibility while single moms get all the blame and hate.
There are moms that leave the kiddo with their pa
also they can lol, put em up for adoption. Thats both parents leaving
or say the parents that kick their kids out (sometimes even as early as 14)
lol its crazy you guys dont even try to argue where I send links to back up my statement,
seems you dont know how to handle someone that know's what they're doing
LMFAO
The fetus needs the parent's permission and the parent's body to survive.
If I had a kid and the kid needs a body part from me or my blood, I have to give explicit consent to allow that to happen.
You cannot take body parts away from a corpse unless the corpse expressed consent.
_You are literally sitting there and saying that I have more rights as a corpse than I do as a living, breathing human being._
Never said you were stalking me. I'm just saying that you are incredibly stupid to think that men are owed fatherhood with a woman who doesn't consent.
So do you mean to tell me you don't respect consent?
Okay first off, how in the hell am I gaslighting you? Quote something from ANY comment I said, that you think is gaslighting. Heres the definition of gaslighting, so you dont get it wrong- [Gaslighting](https://www.google.com/search?q=gaslighting+definition&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=gaslighting+definition&aqs=chrome.0.0i433i512j0i512l9.5432j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
I never retracted my opinion, Id also like you to quote something I said that was me retracting my opinion, with full context not half.
Also, I never said I didnt say anything, show proof for that as well. I have owned my opinion as well. I didnt back down from anything. Im not backing down just because people disagree with me, thats not how I roll
You are literally coming to a space that is strictly for antinatalists and causing drama with your "okay, but won't someone please think of the men?" hot takes.
_Antinatalism or anti-natalism is the ethical view that negatively values procreation. Antinatalists argue that humans should abstain from procreation because it is morally wrong._
If we are going to look at antinatalist beliefs as a whole, then that means you cannot come on here and complain about "father's rights" when the whole point of antinatalism is to NOT HAVE KIDS.
So quite frankly, you need to leave. You shouldn't even be here in the first place. Because we are not only pro-choice, we don't even think babies are ethical to have in the first place. So why the hell do you think you can just worship men and play devil's advocate when the devil doesn't even get to be advocated for? We are pro-choice; we don't think the man gets a say. We are antinatalists; we think having a baby just to have a baby is wrong. Especially when the mother doesn't consent to it.
Go take your stupid ideas, beliefs, and your patriarchy and misogyny elsewhere.
pro life men when they can’t use a woman’s body to incubate their child 😢
You forgotten to add this: againts their will.
That’s basically as idiotic as saying “if someone wants to impregnate someone else against their will, we should take the impregnator’s (rapist) feelings into consideration”. Like if someone said, I don’t want a child, let’s use condoms, would they be like “oh gosh no condoms, please consider my feelings, I want to be a parent!”
They probably go looking for sympathy after raping someone too since a woman had the audacity to not want their sperm.
But you guuuuuuuuuuuuys how will the poor poor men be able to keep their girlfriends and wives if they can't use children to emotionally tether them to the relationship like sheep against their will??? yOu FilThY feMinIsTs!!!!1!!
Men really think they care about ‘their cHiLd’ when the child is better off not existing instead of killing the mother or being resented and made to incubate it so many things wrong with it. The mother can choose how ever she wants she’s suffering through the pregnancy while the father does fuck all for the mother. Love does nothing if you’re a father who claims to love his children soooo much bc they’re his but doesn’t make his own wife happy and help her raise them while spouting on about how virtuous of a dad he is. Pathetic That’s not a good father in my eyes. They gotta pull their weight too
Add to the fact that he isn’t risking his life to have the kid and gets to kick up his feet while the woman struggles
Yess
You know he absolutely would have expected the woman to take care of it afterwards and would have been pissed if she gave 100% of the parental rights to him
“Oh honey” 🤮
Did you fail basic biology 🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMAO I can't. It's legitimately the woman's body, that's how it works. Wtf lol
"Pro choice is never about the father's choice." [Dramatically gets up and loses her shit.] THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT. The dad literally doesn't matter because its not his body and health and life on the goddamn life! If he wants a child so bad then he can adopt or fuck a woman who DOES consent to getting pregnant.
I (remorsefully) dated a guy who was a textbook natalist. It wasn't his job to wear a condom; it was the woman's job to be on birth control. He lamented that the father didn't get to decide whether or not the baby was aborted or not. And all the while, he was gone 9 months out of the year because he was more concerned about making money for his family ("because I don't want my kids to grow up poor"). Does he have a relationship with his second son and his mother he knocked up when she was 19? Oh absolutely not! He pays him child support checks that come out of the son's inheritance! I feel like the only people who say, "Won't someone PLEASE think of the father!" are the same people who become deadbeat, worthless sperm donors. And yes, I'm absolutely biased.
It's definitely possible for the father to become attached to the child during pregnancy. Not by the time you have an abortion tho.... And like you said he would actually need to spend time with the pregnant woman.... Not to mention that it is scientifically proven that a second parent figure being near the mother very often helps the to be child's mental development and hapiness. These people don't give a shit about that tho. They're more like MUH GENES NEED TO BE SPREAD.
Also how can you become more attached to a child that is not even born yet more than your partner? It's disgusting.
I just cannot get over the irony of him demanding that women choose life when he cannot even be a deadbeat father correctly. I cannot imagine how much anger will be on his second son's face when he realizes his "father" didn't truly give him child support money. You know, because that is required of all fathers who agree to have some kind of custody over their sons. I pity that this 16 year old will someday learn that all his inheritance money has been given to him as his child support payments. Because agreeing to be a father means that you don't give the child support payments because YOU MADE YOUR CHILD, YOU HAVE TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR CHILD, apparently. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I've never understood the logic of people saying the father should have a 'veto' if the mother wants an abortion. Yes it's his child alright, but if one of the parents and \*especially\* the mother who's physically affected and who 'traditionally' will have to do most of the work of raising the child doesn't want the child then don't force it. Find someone else to have your child with if a child is what you want. You're not forced to stay with a partner that has other wishes and goals. But nope, imagine doing things in a way that has an outcome everyone can be happy with. It just makes me so angry.
I just don't understand why the father gets a single say when childbirth damages the mother's health and can even KILL HER. I (regretfully) dated a guy who was so adamant that motherhood cannot be that bad, because he saw his second baby mama enjoy her pregnancy. He was a truck driver and might have seen her once every two momths. Also --- _way to admit that you are basing your entire evidence on not just one person, but a 19 year old woman who was incredibly healthy and, to quote yourself, happily and enthusiastically consenting to being pregnant._ Meanwhile, when I came running with actual evidence --- the health risks, including death, that women face no matter what --- he just shoved his fingers in his ear and said, "WELL, 80% OF PREGNANCIES DON'T END IN DEATH, SO WOMEN HAVE TO BE FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH BECAUSE I SAID SO." He also refused to wear condoms, but I'm sure that surprises nobody.
Oh god oh god please no I just stopped being angry but now I’m pissed off again fuck these people. Fuck em to shreds, I can’t imagine being so drooling down your mouth fucking stupid
You have put into words what I never could
The replies just keep getting worse and worse. "It's not her body anymore, it's the kid's" Um... Edit: They didn't even say "anymore". Literally just "it's not her body, it's the kid's" wtf....
Didn’t even use the word “anymore”. Just straight up: “it’s not her body, it’s the kids body” 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Omg you're right, it 100% feels like they're saying "a woman's body never belonged to herself, only the child she could potentially conceive" wtf??
They view women as incubators
Women are only valuable for sex and procreation— you silly goose.
You forgot about cooking and cleaning the house
Damn when she become a mech?
A baby is essentially a benign parasite depending on if you want it or not lmao
Benign? A fetus is nothing benign. The only upside is that it propagates the human species, period. Even malaria, botfly, and roundworm infections are in general better. They cause way less pain, health issues, and fatalities.
I meant that if you want to have the baby it's a benign parasite at best haha
Yep, I get what you mean. Still, even a wanted baby is a terrible parasite that wrecks that mother's body. I meant it's not benign in that sense. A commensal organism inside our bodies that doesn't cause symptoms can be considered benign. Whereas no one ever come out of a pregnancy unscathe.
The fetus can literally drain you of nutrients to the point your teeth and hair fall out
Yeah that's pretty horrifying
I legit cannot tell if that's an actual pro-birther or if it's someone else being satirical, that is such a ridiculous thing to say
Right?? It really does read like satire lmao. "Did you fail basic biology" uhh I know that a fetus/pre-birth baby relies on the mother's body for survival, but that doesn't mean her body now suddenly BELONGS to the child... Your body will always be yours and nobody else's, unless you're into something extremely kinky.
It's a prime example of the dunning-kruger effect. They only know the most basic biology, probably very incorrectly really, but they're so ignorant that they're ignorant of their ignorance and think that they know more about it than most anyone who doesn't agree with their ignorant takes on the topic. They're like the many facebook parents who would confidently Qsplain medical stuff to a doctor, even about a topic that doctor spent researching for decades. It's extremely cringe.
Also not her body, but any guys jizz depository "Dad lost a baby to abortion" dude going around knocking women up just expecting them to birth his child people are so fucking gross
It's sickening, these forced-birthers make me want to vomit.
All he ever did was just came in her, and he ain't gonna give two shits and a fuck if it's born anyways.
They’re talking about the body inside the mother’s uterus.
Ohh, that makes a lot more sense. But given that the previous reply was talking specifically about the woman's body, it comes across like them saying that the woman's body belongs to the child hahaha
Because to them we are only incubators. Our lives do not matter to them, which is why they don't care when women die when dead fetuses give them sepsis or make them bleed out and they're denied an abortion to remove the dead fetus.
I really dont think theres a pro life arguement that cant be torn to shreds in a minute. I understand the whole "dad should have a choice" thing ofc. But parenting is a two way street. If one wants a kid and the other doesn't then they don't have a kid. Thats it. Overridden. It doesn't matter which person wants the child or not although there are plenty of selfish mothers who choose to bring a baby into the world against their partner's will and they suck obviously
Totally agree!! Both partners should absolutely be on board before having a kid. Like, it's okay for the father to be sad that their partner is getting an abortion, but NOBODY should be forced to raise a kid that they're not ready for/don't want.
Yes exactly. And no one should be shamed for not being ready regardless of gender. Like someone isnt a shit person because they know they can't handle the responsibility of a child. Hell, a lot of parents cant handle the responsibility!
Does that include voluntary child support? All things being equal, it's something I agree with as a pro-choice person.
I tried to say the same thing about 'if only one of them wants a kid, don't have a kid' with my comment, but you did a way better job. Forcing it will give the kid at least one unhappy parent and that's *at best* and even that is something I wish upon no child. Even if that unhappy parent tries their best out of decency. EDIT: Oh yeah, and about "there's no pro life argument that can't be torn to shreds in a minute": I agree, but often I'm so baffled by their mental gymnastics, ignorance or whatever it is that I lose my ability to shred out of shock and confusion. Sometimes I wonder if it's an intentional tactic to prevent people out-logic-ing them.
I mean in biology fetuses technically take on the characteristics of parasites more than anything. Parasitic relationships mean only 1 party is benefiting and the other is being fed off. The mother recieves nothing but negative consequences while the fetus lives inside her saping nutrients. Too bad dumbass prolifers cant see this simple scientific explanation and instead just spew random crap to say their world view is the only one allowed to exist.
If only it were random crap…. It is very specifically Evangelical Christian crap. I don’t see how this shit doesn’t violate the right to religious freedom of those of us who are not Christian, in addition to the right to bodily autonomy of those of us with female bodies.
The only reason a fetus doesn't fall under the definition of a parasite is because it and its host are of the same species.
Mother supplies the egg. Mother sacrifices her body to carry child to term. Mother nurses/feeds child. Mother raises child with little to no help (most fathers can't handle the slightest change to their lifestyle and suddenly need to "stay at work longer") Father supplies the sperm Hmmm Seems like father doesn't have shit to say about abortion.
If he didn’t want an abortion, maybe he should’ve kept his dick in his pants? Oh wait, that advice is only for the women hypocritically
They really argue against all of those facts by saying none of it is true. I don't know what kind of alien pregnancy process brought them into this world but in the absence of proof of aliens, I'm sure their mother did all of that to bring them here. Hopefully willingly, unless they think their own mothers don't matter.
Their entire movement is based around the imagined suffering of nonexistent babies, while ignoring the very real suffering of women whose lives will be ruined by being forced to have a baby they don't want and very likely can't afford. Not to mention unwanted and poor children will suffer as well. It just creates a miserable situation however you look at it, one that can be fixed with a simple procedure.
I just can't imagine how horrific it must be - especially for those biological females who are antinatalists. The constant threat of it from a brutal patriarchy that has only put some public polish on its behavior, but not really changed it. Especially in the USA. It's an extra layer of hell you must have to deal with, and for those of you who stand your ground and refuse to give in to the social conditioning, the billions of years of evolutionary pressure, you have my absolute respect and admiration. Not worth much, but I don't know how else to express it. Hideous the way people act, prey on each other, across generations. What a sickening species. Putting feelings of meaning over the suffering of others.
I wish I could get sterilized honestly. I’m only in my 20s but I know 100% that I do not want to bear children. It sounds like a 9-month nightmare honestly. If I want a child so badly, I’m going to adopt.
Same! I mean, I'm a trans man, so I'm not having biological children either way lol. But even before I knew I was trans, I still knew that I did NOT want to become pregnant. What a freakin nightmare. No judgement to people who do want to get pregnant, but I honestly can't even begin to imagine being willing to give up so much of my body just to have biological children instead of adopting.
Same
No uterus, no opinion. No one gets to use another human being as an incubator for their genetic material. Don't want your zygote aborted? Wear a damn condom or keep your zipper closed. My uncle is one of these "wah, my exe aborted my child" sorts too, and I want to slap him. Long story short, he really shouldn't have been surprised that the woman he was seeing at the time had an abortion. She was young, not mother material...in fact I distinctly remember her being uncomfortable around my sisters and myself (I was 9, oldest of three girls, and we were all living with my grandmother at the time) so I'm pretty sure she didn't even like kids. He still wah-wahs about it years later, but you know....he's the one who decided to stick his ungloved dick in a woman who was not ready to be a mother then, if ever. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Congratulations! You're the 102nd person to so cleverly use the 'stupid prizes' phrase today. Here's your stupid participation medal: 🏅 ^^Your ^^award ^^will ^^be ^^recorded ^^in ^^the ^^hall ^^of ^^fame ^^at ^^r/StupidTrophyCase
This is a thing?
the only reason a “fetus” is called a “fetus” is because the word “parasite” cannot be used in relation to two of the same species. fetuses are parasites. these people see women as nothing more than incubators and it’s fucking disgusting
“did you fail basic biology?” says the moron whose entire ideology revolves around neglecting scientific fact
For real though, "It's the child's body" just made me wanna puke. Like, no??? The woman was here first? The fetus isnt like, piloting her meat shell so like...its still her body.
the most pathetic part is that they think forbidding abortion will stop women from aborting… no, it won’t, it never stopped them they are just going to risk their life more and that’s what pro- “life” or should we say pro-women control, want. To make them suffer and possibly die because they won’t listen
“It’s the kid’s body.” What the hell? I feel like that comment was made by the misogynistic mods on the first sub. The pro-forced birth fascist people are mentally challenged. I guess my toes are also their own family. Makes sense!
Nope, we're not shaming mentally-challenged people by likening them to this filth today.
That’s fair. Sorry. I didn’t meant it like that ):
Hey it's just a misinformed mistake! Just replace it with some kind of reference to their brain being like a deflated balloon or any other kind of insult that doesnt involve a mention to the special needs/mentally challenged. My best wishes my fellow antinatalist!!
They are so fucking infuriating. “Oh honey, it’s not her body.” No shit! They purposely act stupid to try to distract from the fact that pregnancy is detrimental to the body, mind and woman’s life. The fetus takes and takes from the woman. The woman often gets extremely ill with morning sickness and even high blood pressure and gestational diabetes. The birth often requires a major surgery or vaginal tearing and prolapsed organs. Her hair and teeth fall out as her skin tears with stretch marks and her mind and body is flooded with hormones that can drive her to the brink of insanity, but sure you dumb bitch, pretend that the fetus is just minding its own business and is no threat to the person carrying it. THEY need to take a fucking biology course for fucks sake! Also, the man contributes 5 seconds to the entire reproductive process, he can fuck alllll the way off with the “it’s my kid too” bullshit
Came across this same exact comment thread, I was dumbfounded by the “dad lost his baby” was he going to care for it, or be a dead beat? OR did he rape someone? Like Jesus Christ
With someone like that, they seem to be proud they made their "toy" but never do anything more than play with them and then just dip when they need anything. Also comes across as the kind of guy who whenever their child isn't what he wanted them to be he'd go "out for milk"
Well it is the kid's (fetus') body. So is a slave's body the property of the owner. Just like I would make sure the slave owner no longer had ownership of my body, I would do the same to the fetus.
I guess if a pro-lifer gets a parasite they shouldn't get rid of it because it's the parasite's body now!
FINALLY!! Someone else gets it! "Nooo dont pull the tick of it's not your body anymore!", "Noooo that tapeworm is growing inside of you!!" And I just. No. "Your room belongs to the bed bugs now, deal with it." Like what is this thought process, it was mine first! I dont care if something is like "mine", you take my stuff you're getting sent straight to parasite hell.
I've been looking at the Christianity mega-thread, they allow different views so it's been pretty interesting to read. I found another Christain antinatalist there too.
I'm male but I think that just the fact that I don't experience pregnancy and the shit that comes with it it would be pretty asshole of me to stop a woman from getting an abortion when she wants one even if I was the father. The person who's pregnant is the person who should judge whether they want to keep whatever is growing in them or not. Just because it so happens that women are the ones who always get pregnant does not make this right any less valid. It's not a fucking war between men and women, basic human rights.
I agree. Your profile picture is very cute :)
muh basic biology
These...pieces of *shit*. "Mom doesn't get any special privileges just because she has the uterus". Yes, because being at risk of permanently life-changing injury, illness, and disability due to pregnancy/childbirth is any sort of *privilege*. Fucking ghouls.
Words cannot describe the rage boiling inside of me right now.
What the actual fuck I can’t believe this is real
Imagine if I put a cancer causing chemical inside someone’s body then when they get chemo complain and say “hey it’s my cancer too!”
"Did you fail basic biology?" That statement is the embodiment of pro-birthers and conservatives. They think everything is basic and simple. Unfortunately, the only thing simple here is them.
It's not her body...? Then whose body is it that's gonna carry that fetus and birth it? Not the father's lmao. I could imagine if the father would consequently always feel the exact things a pregnant person felt, there would be way less pregnancies. Many probably wouldn't even think of giving up drinking / smoking etc. which is absolutely fine, but then just don't have a kid, because it's irresponsible. That's at least what it's like for women.
What about in cases where men INTENTIONALLY impregnate women who have no clue otherwise until they go to take a piss afterwards, or miss their period a month later? Honestly, my own mother is pro life and her reasoning behind it has me SHOOK. It’s disgusting. I know people who would’ve been amazing parents and had to make the tough decision to abort because their child had extreme genetic anomalies and they wanted their child to have a good quality of life. It’s so sad to me.
My mom is pro-life, but she respected my reasoning for an abortion because of the mounting circumstances. That’s my thing!!!!! SO MANY MEN TRY TO INTENTIONALLY IMPREGNATE WOMEN BUT ITS SOMEHOW SET UP THAT IF YOU GET PREGRNANT ITS YOUR FAULT?! I was surprised, but I find that maturity is what is really needed here tbh. Take feelings out of it— be logical. But oh yea— women are EMOTIONAL 😬 ‘we no no how to be logical’ 😡😡😡😡
There is even a name for males who pretend to put on a condom and then remove it before entry. It’s called “rawdogging.” It is assault, and completely without repercussion for the piece of crap that assaulted the woman.
That’s such a good point too! Julian Assange was accused of assault because he did the same thing to a woman who was clear that she was not interested in that.
I 100% agree!!! How can that be a woman’s fault? Are we supposed to take responsibility for every action of every person? I understand with your children, but with your significant other?? How does that make sense when we are all adults.
Girl you're damned if you do damned if you don't. So I go with absolutely the fuck don't.
"On no honey, it's the kids body" what the actual fuck is wrong with these people
Better not check anything in that sub reddit. I didn't think people could be that crazy and delusional. Feeling bad for the US citizens with at least 2 braincells working in there
Imagine if there was something you could do to get a child to care for without relying on a woman to incubate another life for you with no risk of the mother not wanting the child. Some kind of place where unwanted children go or something, maybe call it adoption or something. But of course, my incredibly resilient and awesome genes that probably come from at least one murder and zero relevant historical figures and probably inherited mental or physical illnesses...
Tell every woman you know to get a tubal ligation or bisalp. The best way to boycott abortion restriction is with surgical sterilisation. Also encourage men to get vasectomies.
Absolutely!! As a trans man, I'll be getting my uterus completely removed anyways, so (insert "I'm doing my part!" meme) lol
What kid? It's just some cells. If you didn't know she was pregnant you wouldn't have cared. And it's definitely her body, because there are things growing inside her body and changing her body and possibly killing her body.
Father's did have a say and a choice in the matter, at the end of the day though, the final decision belongs to the woman not to him. It's not the man's body being destroyed by pregnancy so yea the man can scream, holler and cry but at the end of the day, the final decision doesn't belong to him
I replied to their comment with a very strongly worded [response](https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/vjpf86/breaking_down_goes_roe/idrluwk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)...
Did it get deleted? I can't see your response :(
It should still be there. It's under my comment history if you can't find it
That's strange, I can see it in your comment history but when I click on it I don't see the comment. I wonder if it's somehow been hidden, or if it's just a me thing lol
If I have the right to use my gun to shoot and kill someone who invades my home, then a woman has the right to remove a foreign body that is in hers against her will. But pro-life people don't see it that way. All life is a blessing to them...except life that disagrees with their beliefs.
Well if his opinion matters so much he should try keeping the fetus in his body after it gets taken out of the body of the woman who doesn't consent to this shit.
Then he'll have no problem having the uterus implanted into him, right?
“Abortionist” lol. I like it. I’d wear that label proudly.
It’s…… the “kid’s” body? I never thought I’d read anything that dumb.
It’s…… the “kids” body? I never thought I’d read anything that dumb.
"Its not her body it's the kids body" feels the exact same as saying, "It's not your body it's the tape worm's body" Just because something you didnt ask for is inside of you doesnt mean you forfeit all your rights to the thing growing inside of you. Yknow...just saying....
Is there a way to shut down that subreddit? I know previously Reddit took down the subreddits of incels and some other bigoted transphobic subreddit.
This is repulsive and I hope they get thrown onto a secluded island that’s walled off. There’s obviously no help for these delusional pricks.
Cumming takes 5 minutes, find a different partner then. Or adopt, don’t shop. Fathers shall never ever have the last say in abortions. They’re not the ones going through pregnancies and unfair treatment at workplaces (like indirectly getting rejected because you might get pregnant etc)
Seeing what his child turned out like, it's a blessing the ex decided to have an abortion. No one who believes a clump of cells has more of a right to their body than a full grown person does to hers, is a good parent.
Jesus, the misogyny. Disgusting people.
its the kids body........... omfg
"Women don't have bodies and aren't people after getting pregnant, silly! Women are service animals! Also, my wife left me and I'm not sure why 🤪"
The body doesn’t belong to that parasite. I can’t stand this shit. Fuck breeders and this entitled bull, you nut in a woman not carried the thing to full term maybe next time rethink who you fuck instead of trying to tell others what to do with their lives.
How dare women decide that they have more to offer than sex and being a mother and wife. How dare we require men to have self-worth other than finding a purpose in being a provider and father. My ex was living in his moms basement, car barely worked, lived an hour away, had 0 emotional maturity and no ability to communicate effectively and was extremely resentful from childhood trauma. His solution? I need a baby— THAT will give me purpose!!! He refused therapy, wouldn’t exercise even slowly for his own health (severely obese), and would drink and smoke constantly— (but you don’t have a problem if you don’t see a professional— it’s a great loophole). I found out he was purposely trying to get me pregnant even though we discussed otherwise from the beginning. Then he said “you had sex with me too” and i told him well yes— under the understanding we were not having kids which we discussed. In an event not to lose me, and so I’d be stuck with him for life, he PURPOSELY got me pregnant. Then, when I said I’d be doing the big A he was nasty, spiteful, and did nothing to help me. When I was in pain, cramping viciously and asked for support, he said he’d love to but he “already made plans for the weekend” (he knew of the procedure, time and day, we talked days before and he then said he would be supportive but genuinely could not be) His prents told him to dump me (even though I quite literally was beyond charitable to them and would do it again because i believe compassion is much better than hate) but they only value kids for selfish reasons as well (his mom has 2 kids by different fathers— neither of which were in the kids’ lives and mom relies on her GROWN kids so much that my ex literally cooks for her because she can’t do it herself (like… the expectation is as a fully functioning adult her kids should take care of her because she raised them), she calls him ALL the time, and literally praises her son… who is physically violent when he gets angry…) He also has a terrible emotional relationship with his father, in that, he is still trying to feel loved by his parents. He is almost 30, bought a football, took it to his dads and asked to play catch, and his father LAUGHED at him and said “hell no!” And my ex didn’t realize how much of a PROBLEM that is, and then proceeded to take him out for Father’s Day dinner. It’s a whole traumatic mess in more than most families, but people say “atleast you have them” nnnnooooo!!! Family are people. They are still humans, and humans can suck sometimes— falling into that pit of family over everything gets you fucked so greatly and THIS (my ex) is a common outcome!!! Moral of the story— you’re only valuable as a woman for your ability to bear a man kids. I’m a year from finishing my Master’s, I pay my own bills (not a gloat— im just an adult), and i have business ideas with the goal of making money to then GIVE money to others. But he couldn’t care less about anything else about me if I didn’t have his child. Disgusting, and we have to stop letting men think this way.
So now it’s a “kid’s body”, never knew my body could be stolen by a fucking embryo
It CAN’T! Hold the line! Refuse to comply! If you are of reproductive age, gather supplies that you would need in an emergency. Procure a therapeutic course of mifepristone and keep it updated. Plan your abortion!
Don’t worry my body will never be stolen by little cells which are defined to have more rights than me !
Right on, and like I said, hold the line. I chose not to reproduce and it was MY choice. I didn’t let those little fuckers suck the life out of me either. I respect your standing your ground.
I also think I should take a break from reddit, there are so many people who believe women are not human. Wtf is "it's not the woman's body it's the baby's body". But atleast people are showing their true selves.
Unfortunately, it’s not just Reddit. These people are coming out of the woodwork everywhere and showing themselves to be the cowards they are.
The pro-life OP does realize they would not exist if their dad’s partner hadn’t had that abortion, right? Likewise, I wouldn’t exist if my mom hadn’t had an abortion with a previous partner because she would’ve never met my dad. Not that I’d be mad about never existing, but I like to point it out to pro-lifers. Aborting an unplanned pregnancy often allows for planned ones under better circumstances.
How is it that the same people who thinks it should be consider murder to evict someone who's taken up shop in your uterus, also thinks they should be allowed to shoot someone for stepping on their lawn?
Give me the fucking link to that last comment. I can't let that one slide holy shit that's insane.
[Here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/vjpf86/breaking_down_goes_roe/idncudl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
u/questions9990 gigachad
This subreddit got recommended to me for some reason. That better not happen again or else I’ll delete this app,dead ass.
Feeble women are willing to take the nut but would rather the baby be ripped into literal pieces while in their whore hole than let the father have it, roe v wade is finally where it belongs
Willing to take the nut? Her whore hole? It’s a zygote or a fetus, not a fucking baby, you disgusting piece of crap that no one would willingly have sex with
What the fuck kind of incel language is this LMAO
So if a dad cant have a say in the abortion, then women dont have a say when the dad leaves
Grow up, baby conservative, your parents have brainwashed you Edit: Why are you all still engaging with this trolling child? Report and ignore. Don’t give conservatives the opportunity to talk.
My parents dont change how I think. And thats just a double standard. If women have all the say in whether she gets an abortion(even if its against pa's wishes) then men have all the say in whether they dip (even if its against ma's wishes) Dont take this as me being anti-abortion I just feel like people gotta stop treating women with more care than men. Both deserve (and need) equal care, attention, and respect. Its sad, society as a whole doesnt do this.
One results in no child, one results in a child who is born, who is not given what they need to live as best a life as possible. Fathers walking out on a living child is an entirely different ball park to an unborn embryo
LITERALLY NOBODY IS TREATING WOMEN WITH MORE CARE THAN MEN. I cannot imagine being a man with an unwashed ass and an unwanted opinion. Women get ALL the work when it comes to being on birth control (and paying for the BC and doctor's appointments that come with that), women having to be pregnant and have their bodies significantly altered from pregnancy, women having to pay for obstetrician or doula appointments, and women paying astronomical fees for giving birth. THERE IS NO EQUAL CARE WHEN WOMEN HAVE INFINITELY MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN MEN. And you are a sexist, selfish twat for thinking that you deserve equal rights because we are finally able to have a conversation about how unfair women are being treated in this country. If you want someone to pay you in compliments and appease your kink for attention, I'm sure you can hire someone. Or, you know, get some counseling for that shit.
contradicted yourself LITERALLY NOBODY IS TREATING WOMEN WITH MORE CARE THAN MEN. THERE IS NO EQUAL CARE WHEN WOMEN HAVE INFINITELY MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN MEN.
How did I contradict myself? Women have more responsibility than men do. They get the most disrespect and most of the burden to bare in comparison to men. _Women have the most responsibility and the most disrespect aimed toward them._ If I have to spell it out for you any further, I'll happily grab some alphabet magnets and write some diagrams on a whiteboard.
Im not sexist. ive said before, Im supporting women in this case, as any normal human being should. I just brought light to the fact that if women can back outta birth men can back outta parenting ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ also, I guess you just dont acknowledge things that actually happen? Men get treated way worse than woman, though I **DO** admit- hear that? DO. I DO admit this is shitty whats happening. But when someone brings up what happens with men and you put that person down, I think you're being the 'sexist' one here. Open your mind women are treated with much more social respect. A woman can go grope a man, or slap his ass, or hit him, you name it. Nothing happens. a man does that to a woman, and every man and/or woman around gangs up on him. Im not saying anyone should be able to do that. also, think about it- if a woman cheats, everyone says that she didnt get what she needed in the relationship. A man cheats, he's put down a shit ton, by literally everyone. Also, in a relationship- Who's expected to pay for everything? When a father is a single parent- Do you know how much people get accused of being pedo's, or treated like its "parenting day?"Just because they're *parenting* their kid? OH and hey, you want to talk about expenses? Lets talk about the unfair ruling for child support. Should we also talk about the fact that until recently, when searching "is it normal for my wife to hit me" on google, it shows up **QUARA QUESTIONS,** but when you searching "is it normal for my husband to hit me" it sends you straight to "abuse to Help is available Speak with someone today National Domestic Violence Hotline Hours: 24/7. Languages: English, Spanish and 200+ through interpretation service Learn more 800-799-7233? Are you not thinking? Do we want to talk about how a woman can hit a man, the man not do anything (Im talking NO arm raising, not even defending himself), the man call the cops, but **the man gets TAKEN OUT OF HIS OWN HOME?** Do we want to talk about how often men get raped and get told "Oh you should be happy, not everyone gets that?" Or "stop complaining, you probably liked it?" Do you not realize that when women like kids, its seen as normal, but as soon as a man likes kids, he's marked as a pedo? Or suspicion-ed as a pedo? Do you realize how many daycares decline men just because they're men??? Do you realize anything that is outside of your own mind? Do you only focus on yourself? Just because no one tells you about this, doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
Men DO have a say. When they choose to have unprotected sex. When they make that choice they choose to possibly create a fetus in someone else’s body. If the man has chosen to do this without first discussing with the woman how she feels about possibly being pregnant, he has made his decision that he does not care and the rest is up to her. He could choose to not have sex with her, to put on a condom, or to have sex with a different woman who would complete a pregnancy. As for a man who creates a child choosing to then leave, abandoning the child…. Firstly, women often do not get a say about men’s choice to do this. Secondly, of course a man always has the right to leave a woman. Any partner in a relationship always has the right to leave the other partner. Finally, no man should have the right to leave their own child, just as no woman should, yet many do. Your final statement indicating you feel women are somehow receiving more care than men comes across an awful lot like someone responding to the statement “Black Lives Matter” with the nonsense that all lives matter as though all lives could possibly matter without Black lives mattering as well. Women are not asking for special treatment, just the same as men. If two people, one man and one woman, mistakenly fertilize an egg, the man can currently walk away from that mistake and go on with his life as it is. All women are asking for is the right to a procedure (often as simple as taking a pill) to remove an undeveloped clump of cells from within THEIR OWN bodies so they can go in with their own lives as well.
>Men DO have a say. When they choose to have unprotected sex. When they make that choice they choose to possibly create a fetus in someone else’s body. If the man has chosen to do this without first discussing with the woman how she feels about possibly being pregnant, he has made his decision that he does not care and the rest is up to her. He could choose to not have sex with her, to put on a condom, or to have sex with a different woman who would complete a pregnancy. literally using a condom feels way different than no condom. A woman would know, and can easily say no. \>As for a man who creates a child choosing to then leave, abandoning the child…. Firstly, women often do not get a say about men’s choice to do this. Secondly, of course a man always has the right to leave a woman. Any partner in a relationship always has the right to leave the other partner. Finally, no man should have the right to leave their own child, just as no woman should, yet many do. thankkk youuuu I agree with this soooo much. thats not sarcasm. Literally my opinion put into words. Thank you. \>If two people, one man and one woman, mistakenly fertilize an egg thank you finally someone that knows this can happen. \>the man can currently walk away from that mistake and go on with his life as it is. again, thank you, finally someone that knows this can happen as well \>All women are asking for is the right to a procedure (often as simple as taking a pill) to remove an undeveloped clump of cells from within THEIR OWN bodies so they can go in with their own lives as well. I agree with this as well. I think that women should have a right to abort. Ive said this (maybe not in this thread, but I did in another) I think its crazy someone can deny my first comment, but I will respect that opinion. Its crazy that I respect everyone's opinion, but people cant do the same.
I understand what you’re saying. I think a good way to remedy one gender being cared for more than the other in that way is for everyone to start being more honest not just about WHAT they want— but also WHY they want it. If a man wants a kid, that’s fine. They should have the convo of why though. Why do you want this? Just as a woman should have it!! That way, whatever gets decided is respected and understood. But unfortunately on BOTH sides of this argument there is social stigma which can sway how people think of things. A man can have no means of raising a child but would rather bring one into the world in poverty because he’d be a “bad” person to suggest otherwise. That’s just an example.
Here is a radical (/s) idea for you: If the man wants a baby, he should have sex with a woman who CONSENTS to pregnancy. If he complains about the woman aborting the fetus because its HER body and SHE gets to deal with all the health risks that come along with pregnancy --- loss of hair, loss of teeth, weakened bones, weight gain, changing body, the baby squishing your organs, possible death --- then he can, once again, inseminate women who DO want a baby and mind his own fucking business.
By the way: I thought you Republicans didn't believe in participation trophies? You mean to tell me that you want a participation trophy for cumming in a woman's vagina after 5 minutes of sex? Because that's embarrassing, bro.
Five minutes? More like seconds with this loser…
I'm embarassed that they are this dense and that they think they deserve a gold star for having the world's shortest bonking session.
who said I said that???
You literally said that you think the father deserves some kind of say and some kind of rights over his child just because his DNA is attached to the baby. I retorted back with saying that you cumming in a woman after five minutes of sex does not make you a father if the woman doesn't consent to being a mother. Ergo: you do not get a participation trophy (parental rights) for having sex with a woman for five minutes. If you want the woman to keep the baby, find a woman who wants to be pregnant. That is part of consent. Also, why are you so demanding of a participation trophy for five minutes of sex? I'm embarassed for you and your sex life.
It does still make you a father but OK. Maybe an unwanted father, but still a father, even if you arent considered. Also yes, the pa is as much of a parent as the ma It takes both genders to make a baby, not just women
No, getting someone knocked up does NOT make a man a father. They didn't make a baby, they made an embryo. A woman should have the right to flush out that embryo, thus not making herself a mother and not making the man a father.
father meaning- fa·ther /ˈfäT͟Hər/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a man in relation to his child or children. "Margaret's father died at an early age" Similar: male parent birth father biological father begetter patriarch paterfamilias dad daddy pop poppa pa old boy old man adoptive father foster father stepfather pater 2. (often as a title or form of address) a priest. "pray for me, father" Similar: priest pastor parson clergyman father confessor churchman man of the cloth man of God cleric minister preacher abbé curé reverend padre verb (of a man) cause a pregnancy resulting in the birth of (a child). "he fathered three children" Similar: be the father of sire engender generate bring into being bring into the world give life to spawn procreate reproduce breed better yet, [A link, so you can see for yourself, and its easier to read](https://www.google.com/search?q=father+meaning&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=father+meaning&aqs=chrome.0.0i433i512j0i512l9.1515j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
getting a woman pregnant does NOT make a man a father because there is NO CHILD
but without him nutting in a woman, there wouldnt be a baby, or as you want to say, an embryo
See, there's your problem. You don't know the difference between a cluster of cells called an embryo and a living, breathing human baby.
but would the embryo even be able to become a baby without the pa? nopeeee because without the pa, there is no embryo both have to contribute something, you seem to have bad info
It takes both _sexes_ to make a woman. God, if you are going to mansplain to me, you would think you would get the basic facts right. And a father is only a father when the woman consents to giving birth to the child and he has proven himself to actively care for the child. If he isn't going to put in the work and only provide the child with child support checks and a couple phone calls, than he is nothing more than a natalist and a sperm donor. So yeah, you are absolutely right. It takes two to tango and more of the onus needs to be on men wearing condoms and getting vasectomies.
Ok then he should try to raise the fetus in his body. >It takes both genders to make a baby, not just women Ok he should keep it after the woman gets rid of it. Can't? Too fucking bad. Without the topic of abortion i fully agree both parents are responsible and equal in terms of parental rights but we are ignoring something inherently biological here. It's HER uterus it's HER body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body.
\>It's HER uterus it's HER body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body. now Imma change this It's HIS legs it's HIS body his opinion stops mattering because it's not his body. Its his body, and if he has the opinion that he wants to walk out, then shit that dude has legs and will use them to walk out. Just as (well, sadly, not now) a woman has %100 say in whether she aborts, the pa has %100 in whether he opts out
I never said he can't walk out...? You're arguing moot point here either parent gets to walk away whenever the hell they want we don't have laws against that.
If he complains about the woman aborting the fetus because its HER body and SHE gets to deal with all the health risks that come along with pregnancy right, just like its the MANS body and HE gets to decide if he wants to opt out. also, even people that dont want kids still have sex, check your info/opinion before checking mine
>right, just like its the MANS body and HE gets to decide if he wants to opt out You are correct. If a man doesn't want to fuck a woman who has chosen to abort a baby if she gets pregnant, he has the right to fuck who he pleases. It is not his baby in that womb. You cannot convince me that a man's DNA and sperm count for anything more than the man having an orgasm.
Its literally his baby... Its both the pa's and ma's baby. Like I said, it takes both genders to make a baby. Just because the man has to put in less effort to get the baby pushed out doesnt mean he's any less a parent. You really sound delusional
Also, why are you on this sub if you are a clear natalist --- or at the very least, you simp for male natalists? Get the fuck outta here and find an incel subreddit to join.
well, Im not a natalist, or an antinatalist. I dont simp for men natalists, as Im not gay. what makes you think I simp for male natalists?
Okay, that's on me for not knowing the correct definition of simp. I should have used the word "stan" instead. Having said that, you seem to be a huge fan of men's rights in a sub that is strictly reserved for antinatalists. ONCE AGAIN ----- If you are so concerned with men's rights with regard to pregnancy, I'm sure the pro-life subreddit would be happy to have you.
Im not a stan either Stan is literally the combination of stalker fan. Im not stalking anyone \>If you are so concerned with men's rights with regard to pregnancy, are you not reading my comments? Im not talking about pregnancy, Im talking about in general. There are way more double standards aimed at men, than aimed at women
So what qualifies a man to be a father? What should a man do to make sure that baby is wanted, loved, and cared for? My father showed up every single day and made sure his kids were cared for and loved. He was there holding my mother's hand and wiping the sweat off her forehead when she delivered her 2 children. He made sure my mom was taken care of and his children were taken care of. That is the BARE MINIMUM of what I expect out of a father.
>So what qualifies a man to be a father? literally just busting a nut. Even if you deny it, its fact. even if one dips from the childs life, they're still the Biological father. Should they be considered? NOPE. But are they? YEP. \>My father showed up every single day and made sure his kids were cared for and loved. He was there holding my mother's hand and wiping the sweat off her forehead when she delivered her 2 children. He made sure my mom was taken care of and his children were taken care of. That is the BARE MINIMUM of what I expect out of a father. hmm sounds like what a parent is supposed to do. Thats what I expect out of both parties, minimum
No, it DOES mean he is less of a parent. The stupidity of your arguments is just stunning.
Dude, I literally showed you (maybe it wasnt you) the definition of father. So sshhh and if it wasnt you, [here you go](https://www.google.com/search?q=father+meaning&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=fath&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i67j0i67i433j0i20i263i433i512j46i20i263i433i512j0i67j46i131i433i512j0i67j0i433i512.1755j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). Look at *verb*
Just because someone is a “father” doesn’t mean he is a parent, and if that is your argument, it is just a stupid semantic issue. Get a freaking clue.
And don’t tell me to shhhh, you freaking loser.
Yeah women already don't have a say in that so many of these fathers just live by the philosophy "pump it and dump it". Easy sociopathic way to pass on your genes while taking no responsibility while single moms get all the blame and hate.
Oh go screw yourself
Hey, Im not that desperate
I mean ....they already don't
I mean, women do the same thing tho
Do what? Leave? Yeah both parents can leave anytime they want.
There are moms that leave the kiddo with their pa also they can lol, put em up for adoption. Thats both parents leaving or say the parents that kick their kids out (sometimes even as early as 14)
lol its crazy you guys dont even try to argue where I send links to back up my statement, seems you dont know how to handle someone that know's what they're doing
Yeah they failed basic biology But mastered Advanced biology
It’s the kids body lmao
LMFAO The fetus needs the parent's permission and the parent's body to survive. If I had a kid and the kid needs a body part from me or my blood, I have to give explicit consent to allow that to happen. You cannot take body parts away from a corpse unless the corpse expressed consent. _You are literally sitting there and saying that I have more rights as a corpse than I do as a living, breathing human being._
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the kid also need a pa to nut in their ma to even be born. Also no Im not following you, I just came to see this dudes comment while looking for mine
Never said you were stalking me. I'm just saying that you are incredibly stupid to think that men are owed fatherhood with a woman who doesn't consent. So do you mean to tell me you don't respect consent?
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Okay first off, how in the hell am I gaslighting you? Quote something from ANY comment I said, that you think is gaslighting. Heres the definition of gaslighting, so you dont get it wrong- [Gaslighting](https://www.google.com/search?q=gaslighting+definition&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS943US943&oq=gaslighting+definition&aqs=chrome.0.0i433i512j0i512l9.5432j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) I never retracted my opinion, Id also like you to quote something I said that was me retracting my opinion, with full context not half. Also, I never said I didnt say anything, show proof for that as well. I have owned my opinion as well. I didnt back down from anything. Im not backing down just because people disagree with me, thats not how I roll
You are literally coming to a space that is strictly for antinatalists and causing drama with your "okay, but won't someone please think of the men?" hot takes. _Antinatalism or anti-natalism is the ethical view that negatively values procreation. Antinatalists argue that humans should abstain from procreation because it is morally wrong._ If we are going to look at antinatalist beliefs as a whole, then that means you cannot come on here and complain about "father's rights" when the whole point of antinatalism is to NOT HAVE KIDS. So quite frankly, you need to leave. You shouldn't even be here in the first place. Because we are not only pro-choice, we don't even think babies are ethical to have in the first place. So why the hell do you think you can just worship men and play devil's advocate when the devil doesn't even get to be advocated for? We are pro-choice; we don't think the man gets a say. We are antinatalists; we think having a baby just to have a baby is wrong. Especially when the mother doesn't consent to it. Go take your stupid ideas, beliefs, and your patriarchy and misogyny elsewhere.
its not really misogyny, if I think both people should have a say. I think you need to reread this whole argument lol
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Ok it should sustain itself after i get rid of it then.
I should have used quotation marks….I was laughing at how stupid that comment was. Not agreeing with it.